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The Mentor Sessions | If Jesus Smoked Cigars: Creating Community in a Digital World · The Mentor Sessions

• Joshua Evarts: healthy culture attracts healthy employees, it attracts healthy customers, it attracts healthy vendor relationships. So getting your culture right is critically, critically important in an organization. BigMike Coyle: None of us become who we're meant to be alone. Every story has people who helped write it. So let's talk about them. Welcome to the Mentor Sessions. back to the mentor sessions, everyone. I'm your host, Big Mike. Today I am joined by a good friend, an amazing mentor, and just an amazing all around human being. My friend, author, entrepreneur, man of who has mastered everything. Even poker. And Josh Everts. Welcome to the show. Joshua Evarts: Mike, you're very, very kind. I I would say that my my my poker mastery is you know always evolving Thanks for having me on today. BigMike Coyle: Thank you for joining us. if you could just t give us a little background about yourself, Josh. Joshua Evarts: Yeah, so Josh Everts, living in beautiful Meridian, Idaho. my my journey's kind of interesting. I I moved up to Idaho thirty-five years ago, nineteen ninety-one before anybody was really moving up here, to go to college. attended Boise State University, was an accounting major, was a really, really exceptional accountant, but a very, very poor student. So my senior year, the professor of my advanced corporate tax class who actually also was my advisor suggested that I leave the university. He's like, I don't see you ever being an accountant or sitting for the CPA exam. He's like, you you've got a little bit too much personality. He's like, why don't you just go start a company? And I thought, well if my college professor is telling me to leave and start a company, that sounds like you know good sage advice. My my wife was less inclined to believe in in in that vision. But started a company, grew it up, sold it, spent a couple years thinking I would be a professional golfer, and realized very quickly I was a very terrible golfer. So went back to technology. that thing that I knew and started building software for law enforcement, doing crime scene reconstruction, accident, arson, domestic violence. As nine eleven happened and we found ourselves in Iraq and Afghanistan, that technology migrated into doing post blast forensics and being able to gather data in non permissive environments to help the war efforts. And my company ended up getting bought in two thousand nine. So I went from being CEO of a software company to a chief technology officer for a much, much larger federal contractor. that was enjoyable for about 10 minutes. And but but I ended up spending three years doing that and and in the interim, my wife and I saw some opportunities to start redeveloping our downtown here in Meridian, where we live. And there wasn't a lot of activity, there wasn't a lot of things to do after 5 p.m. And we thought, why don't why don't we lead? Why don't we go first? and start with a building and then we'll find businesses to put in that building. And that began a journey of sort of redeveloping our downtown. And one of the projects that we did during that time was the original Bank of Meridian built in nineteen five. And when we got that building done, my wife and I both smoke cigars and really enjoy great wines, great spirits, and we used it as our living room for about 18 months. our house is a little tiny house that's a couple of blocks away, doesn't really have a living room, so we thought we'll make this our makeshift living room. And we did that for 18 months and we made a Mike a fatal error. We contacted our mayor at the time, Tammy DeVere, dear friend, and invited her and her husband Jan to come have a cigar. And we called the building the vault. I wanted to call it the depository because I was a big JFK buff. But Lori's like, no, she's like depository sounds too much like suppository, as she was a nurse. And so we're gonna we're gonna call it the vault. And I said, Great. So we invited Jan. Anne and Tammy to come over and have cigars with us and she went full mare mode on me. She's like, You need to open a cigar lounge And I said, Mayor, I really like people. I said, nor do I want to spend significant amounts of time with them. I'm like, how's this going to work out for me? And she said it was gonna be a great thing. It was gonna be an economic driver for our downtown. So nine years ago, we opened up the Vault Cigar Lounge. And yeah, been been doing that. So in so in the midst of this kind of 30 years of technology, real estate redevelopment, and then a cigar lounge, and all along that 30-year journey, I've been around. Writer. So I've written trade publications. I was part of the board of directors for the Premium Cigar Association. So I'd write their tobacconist columns. So I wrote about 21 columns over five years for that trade publication. And but I I've always wanted to write a book, but I never had a topic that I cared enough about to put 60,000 words to paper. And as I kind of explored, you know, this 30-year professional journey, determined that the common denominator. In all three distinct, very unique industries was relationships. And so wrote the book, If Jesus Smokes Cigars, Eight Lessons in Relational Leadership. And the book's actually not about Jesus or cigars. It's about what if we made relationships the central theme of our businesses? And how does that impact us as leaders? BigMike Coyle: Yeah, it's a great book. I've got my copy here for everyone to see. And we'll link to Joshua Evarts: Beautiful. BigMike Coyle: we'll link to Josh's website and his socials. Josh, like I said, he's a great man, he's a great friend, and there's a lot of humor in it too. that's one thing I found it, you know. Joshua Evarts: You have to. Mike, you're not laughing in life. Like l I I've I firmly believe I've been married thirty two years. I've got four children, three grandsons. And what I will tell you is I think life is hard. I think marriage is hard. I think relationships are difficult. And so if there's not humor, if we can't if we can't find those silver linings and those moments of br you know of of joy, then it then it's then it's a rough go. BigMike Coyle: Yeah, for sure. I mean, that's something that my wife and I have learned you know, especially as like you, we're we're empty nesters now. And a lot of times when we start snipping with each other, all of a sudden we'll just start throwing roast and jokes and that diffuses the the whole snipping because we realize, well, one, we're probably either tired, hungry, the combination, the hangry. and what we're snipping about isn't as important as we've made it up in our head at that moment. And, Joshua Evarts: No. BigMike Coyle: you know, having that space to just kind of start laughing it off and not taking things so seriously or personally. If it's gonna be serious, we'll get there. you know, one of the things that I know you've said and you've said it to me in conversations, and you mentioned your conversation with the mayor, is you've never had started a business that didn't start with a simple conversation. So would you include that conversation with your accounting professor as well? Just starting a conversation like gets balls rolling. Joshua Evarts: Yeah, I think I I think the I think every conversation has got value and we absolutely don't know where it might lead. And so even in the even even in those early days with my accounting professor, he was very inquisitive of me. He wanted to know what I was up to, what I was doing. because I was willing to make that time and I was willing to engage with him, that's where he really learned about me and my DNA and how I'm made up and allowed him to get to that place where he recognized, hey, this might not be the best place for Josh and and was willing to give me that little gentle nudge to go, you know, in his words, go do something great. Go build a great company. Like, like that's kind of what you're wired for. I would say in the the redevelopment efforts, I don't have any background in construction. I don't like in technology, I started programming on a Commodore 64 when I was like 12, 13 Years old. So I was a basic programmer. Like I knew technology. I understood ones and zeros, logic models, all that kind of stuff. So it made sense for me to do technology as my first company. But in redevelopment, I don't, I don't swing a hammer. I don't know anything about architecture. I don't know anything about old buildings, like the one I'm sitting in right now is 120 years old. Like I don't know anything about that, but I was willing to go have conversations with people and I was willing to make myself transparent. Like these are the things I don't know, I want to get wisdom. Are you willing to share it with me? And I have a good friend of mine in Texas that always tells me that in Texas the old saying is when you're in the room, you're in the deal. So being willing to be in those rooms, to have those conversations, that's where deals happen. And so being open to those kind of things is critically, critically important. BigMike Coyle: this is a a very important lesson for us here on the mentor sessions, being willing to say, I don't know what you're talking about, so educate me. I feel like I I felt like in my life and my experiences with people, if I'm trying to fake it, it's very obvious and that's when things go south. But Joshua Evarts: Mm. BigMike Coyle: if I'm just open and say, hey, explain that to me. They want to share that information with you so that way they know that everybody's on the same page. Would you agree with that statement? Joshua Evarts: Yeah, not not only do I agree with it, what you have done by being transparent, even in our inadequacies, right? Because we tend to we tend to bottle up a little bit because we don't want other people to think that, my goodness, Josh doesn't know anything about that, right? Like that that's my own insecurities, inadequacies BigMike Coyle: Right. One hundred percent. Joshua Evarts: that I'm bringing to the conversation. So not only am I allowing myself to be transparent, but I'm allowing people with knowledge to invest in me and to bring their wisdom and and life experiences into the conversation. So yeah, it's crucial. You have to do it. BigMike Coyle: like you said, it's our insecurities that don't want us to be vulnerable like that. Joshua Evarts: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: As you've pivoted through these different roles, what kind of impact did that have on your family? I know you said Lori, your your lovely wife, who I've been fortunate to get to know and I I just enjoy her company and stuff. as you've pivoted and you've taken these pivots to your family and stuff like that. Has there been an effect on them? and how has their re response to your pivots been? Joshua Evarts: Yeah, so when you when you take on work for the federal government from Meridian, Idaho, we we don't have a defense industrial base other than Idaho National Labs, which is down in the eastern part of the state. So my job was really in DC Metroplex area. So so when we were getting prepared to sell the company in two thousand nine, one of the stipulations was that we as a family move to Washington, DC. So the impact on the family and and this is following two deployments. So I deployed to Iraq as a civilian contractor to support field data collections both in 2007 and 2008. So my family was impacted from me being deployed, being in a combat area, security is not guaranteed, and doing those deployments. I worked the London bombings in 05. in fact we almost moved to London because I was spending so much time. There was an eighteen month period between two thousand six, two thousand seven where I flew one point three million miles in about eighteen months. So I was literally circling the globe wherever there were bombs going off, where there wherever there were terrorist activities going on, I was going and responding to those things. And so the family's impacted by that. You know, I moved the family out to Virginia and and fortunately in two thousand twelve we were able to exit the government work and come back to Meridian, Idaho and and we won't ever leave it here. So they had to they had to see that. So the bad of it was there were times that dad wasn't around, that dad was doing his job and and doing things I needed to do. but on every trip where there was an opportunity to take the kids, I took them. So a lot of the work that I did in London and mainland Europe, I would take the whole family with me and allow them to, you know, spend time in Paris to touring the the the sites while I was with the gendarme working on counterterrorism programs. they got to see the world. They got to see Washington, DC and live there for for a couple years. so yeah, and and they got to see their father work. Like I think one of the things that is important for children to see their parents do, that is go to work every day and provide for the family and and do things that are that are important and meaningful and they got to see all that. BigMike Coyle: You know, you bring up an important question that literally just popped in my head. When I was a kid and I asked my dad, Hey Dad, how was work? He'd usually because he was tired and grumpy and stuff like that, as as dads can be, just snap back it's work. It's just what you do. Whereas the way you said that, I think that's an important lesson we can teach our kids is coming home and showing maybe the different value in what work is. besides it's just work, it's seeing the value that we're doing for our kids and for the community as a whole, no matter if it's working in a technology space. Being an accountant, my wife is an accountant, or you know, whatever it is we're doing, showing that value in it. Joshua Evarts: Yeah, no, it's it's it's very, very important. I was very fortunate growing up. So my parents owned a floor covering business. And so at the age of, I don't know, I might have been six, seven years old, I was going out on carpet jobs with my father, laying carpet with him. My summer job from age seven on was working in the family business. so so early on, you know, it might have been loading trucks, it might have been, you know, throwing away trash at the shop. but by the time I was, you know, twelve 13 years old, the guy that had taught my dad to lay carpet taught me how to lay carpet, tile hardwood floors. So I would start going out with crews. And on my 16th birthday, when I got my driver's license, then I ran my own crew. Now I couldn't go to residential houses because nobody wants a 16-year-old showing up at their house to lay carpet. But all the property management accounts, all the apartments, multifamily that we did, all of them wanted me because they knew, hey, that's Mark's son, and he's going to do it right, or else Mark's going to be all over So we know we're gonna get, you know, really, really good work out of Josh. And so I think it's important for our kids to see those things. So I got to experience it firsthand. And so what was fun for me, and and the work that I was doing was incredibly interesting and terrifying all at the same time. But being able to share those stories with the boys and letting them see what that looks like was was was a big part of, you know, their development. And both of them now are, you know, young men with careers and and doing the same thing in the case of my oldest son Matt with his two sons and and showing them what it looks like to work and provide for the family and and and be a productive human. BigMike Coyle: Yeah, I literally never thought of it that way. and I probably came home with that same attitude a few times with my son, you know, rough day at at the sheriff's office or something like that. so you've owned a lot of businesses and Joshua Evarts: Mm. BigMike Coyle: I know you're still learning in a lot of things. We've talked about the the Meridian downtown that if you're ever in Meridian, Idaho, those of you that are listening, you gotta go to the vault. You gotta go to the vault and just hang out. It is such a great group of people, very welcoming. That's the thing, Josh. That's the thing about the space that you've created. Is the vault, not just the staff, you have an amazing staff, but the people in there, in that environment, they're so welcoming. How much do you attribute that to what you instill in your employees and what you instill in owning a business? Joshua Evarts: Great question. one of the chapters in the book, I think it's the first lesson chapter, which means it's the second chapter in the book, is Culture Trump's Execution. and I tell the story of John Wooden and his coaching prowess for the UCLA Bruins in the 70s. And what we learn in in building culture and not building businesses is that healthy culture attracts healthy employees, it attracts healthy customers, it attracts healthy vendor relationships. So getting your culture right is critically, critically important in an organization. And certainly when we started the Vault, our mission statement was and and people talk about this all the time, like, you know, the the mission statements are campy if you don't have a goal, it's very, very tough to create pathways to achieving those things. So our mission statement was to provide a premium cigar experience where the primary currency we exchange was relationships. At the end of the day, you can get all these cigars cheaper online. Like Amazon won. Like, like retail is forever changed. And so my unique selling proposition was not cigars, it was experience. And so I was building that culture, I was a central part of that. however, in 2020, we were three years into the vault, I got cancer, and the kind of cancer that I got, COVID was going on, so I couldn't be in the lounge. the mortality rate for my cancer and getting COVID was like 75%. So effectively, I had to leave the vault for about a seven-month period of time, and we had to entrust that to somebody else. And and what we found was that commitment to relationship and people. People, it was good, but but it I needed to take that next step as a leader to really push that that modeling down into the organization. So in 2021, we were able to hire Jeff as our general manager and and able to push that culture down further into the organization so that it's at a point now where if Lori and I decide to leave for a month and and we're gone, we just do not miss a beat. Like the the relationships, the people, the culture. Is so airtight that it doesn't require me to be there all the time to to curate that and nurture it. BigMike Coyle: Yeah, that you you mentioned Jeff and we gotta give him his flowers 'cause you know, as as you I've been there enough times that Jeff knows what I like, he knows my flavors, my flavor palette. And we were there one time back on the patio and our mutual friend Reese went in to get a new cigar and he's like, Anyone else want anything? And he brought Me, it was actually the my father blue. And he goes, Here, Jeff Joshua Evarts: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: says you Jeff says you'll like this. And he knew that based upon the what he sees me by. And to just remember those small things, those are the things that bring people back. And and I remember a conversation we had recently with Reese is the three of us were sitting in the lounge talking, and you know, he he brought up that same point that you brought up, you know, like you can buy these online. So what is it that brings people here? And You said very, very clearly what you just stated there. It's the experience. It's the people. It's getting to sit here Joshua Evarts: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: and meet people. Like, I'll sit there and I'll hear a conversation on the other side of the room you know, I'll just pop in and like, yeah, well, here's what I think about that. And nobody looks at you like, mind your own business. Now you're a part of this conversation. And now you've got new friends. And one time I was there and The guys were like meeting over at Sturm's later on that night and they're like, Hey, make sure you come with us. You know, new people, new friends. you know, that's another thing that I really value in that industry, and that is that there's between you, V Cut, Sturmans, and I'm sure I'm missing some others, there's that collaboration versus competition. Joshua Evarts: Yeah, don't don't get me wrong. You know, the we all compete. everybody wants to be the best cigar lounge. however, one of the things that that we collaborate on is that we want our valley, we want our community to be cigar friendly and be able to have these experiential things. I knew Ryan when he was a little boy and Mark Sturman, his father was running just the downtown location. You know, Ryan since opened two more locations in Garden City and in Eagle, you know. we've got our lounge in Meridian, Tim and Jen opened up theirs in in Nampa. we've seen some other lounges that Laurie and I have helped get open up in northern Idaho, up in Moscow, Grangeville. Like so we we're very, very committed to community. And when the ocean rises, all boats have got to float. And so it's very, very important for us collectively. In fact, we host between our our shops here in the valley, we all co sponsor the Idaho Cigar Open golf tournament once a year. So we've just BigMike Coyle: Which is a great time. Joshua Evarts: It's so much fun. So we had our third annual tournament in May. We'll have our fourth annual next year. So It's super, super important that we collaborate and and work together. because they're they are very, very different offerings. You know, what Tim and Jen provide is very, very different than what Lori and I provide, which is really, really different than what Ryan provides. I feel called to love people, but I don't enjoy that. That doesn't that doesn't fill me up. Being around people is not something that charges my batteries. Ryan is built for that. So he builds these big outdoor experiences with music and you know wine and and activity and energy and it's just I'm so glad that that exists because there are a lot of people that need that. And then there's a lot of people I believe like me that want to be in communicate like in relationship and want to have those quiet one-on-one conversations which is much more sort of the identity of of the vault. BigMike Coyle: Yeah. Well see, that's the thing. So back in the day, a long time ago, and this this is kind of what it what I was getting at, and and how I relate it to my life, I started a mobile wedding DJ business. And, you know, when I first started it, being the athletically minded competition, you know, my goal I was seeking out all the competition in the valley, am I going to beat this guy? Then I got to know them. then they started inviting me to They're like get togethers. And I'm like, you guys all get together? And one of them pointed out very clearly, there's so many weddings in the valley. We can't do them all together. So if we all work together as to what kind of experience we want to provide, yes, my weddings are going to be different than my good friend Russ's, who's actually gonna be DJing my daughter's wedding because he it I got to know him and I got to know the experience he provides. And But we want to make sure that we're providing the best experience. And that's that collaboration that I have seen going to the different places. V Cut, the Vault, Sturman's. It seems like, hey, this is the environment for what you want. And, you know, then you see the mutual customers at each because at that moment they're looking for that. you know, the cigar open, which is a great time, but it's that collaborative effort to make, like you said. raise the community as a whole and help people see that like, yeah, you can buy these online and there's certain brands I buy online, but there's certain brands that I'm like, okay, I want some of these. I know where to get them. You know, and I know That I can trust that I'm getting them from a reputable source. And I think that has to do with that collaborative effort that you guys have helped built and in in the valley. Joshua Evarts: Well, I appreciate that, Mike. And I think that's why it the timing of this book is so important in that I think there are three big, big things that have happened over the last thirty years that have maybe not deconstructed but certainly changed how we relate with one another. And the first is just general technology, right? We got the internet, we got email, we got smartphones, we got text messaging, social media, Amazon. Like, so so all of these things began to change the way we interact with people. Like you and I are of an age that, you know, we had we had phones, hardline phones at our house. If BigMike Coyle: Right. Joshua Evarts: if you weren't at your house when that phone rang, then then you didn't get the call, right? Until we got, cassette, you know, recording machines and things of that nature. now, like when my wife and I were engaged, we wrote letters to each other. Like we had one long distance call a week that we could that we could do with each other. You know, we weren't Face timing all day long and and having real so so the nature of of technology has impacted how we engage with people. Second thing that happened was you know COVID. So, you know, regardless of what you think about the response, but the reality is we did start social distancing. We did send w our workforce home, and we started wearing masks and all these things disrupted an entire generation, of which my youngest son was part of that, where you know, during those college formative years, everything was done at a distance. And I would say the third thing that's kind of come into play in the last, you know, two to three years has been artificial intelligence, AI. And now we're in relationship with agents and we are interacting with data models at at such a dynamic way. And I'm not an anti-technology guy. Like I made a lot of my money building technology, but these things have all disrupted how we engage with one another. And I think it's imperative that we don't lose sight of the fact that influence, you know, meaning our followers, our social media, influence does not equate to authenticity. and so I think it's it's critical that we maintain relationships with people and that we're in those authentic relationships because like we talked about earlier in this call, life is hard, relationships are hard. So, who are who are your five? Who are the people that are around you that you BigMike Coyle: Yeah, I say all the time, and it's one of the core messages that I have here with this is we are in such a connected world that we're disconnected. Because, you know, when you send a text or an email, email can still be a little more intimate, but not as intimate as putting pen to paper. I I find writing some someone a handwritten letter or a card, like it changes the game immensely. But when you do those things, they're very intimate, like communication. But a text, you don't get the emotions that are coming out and and the intent and the voice and the tone, which is something we've all learned through our evolution and biology in how to communicate with one another. Joshua Evarts: No doubt Mike. none of this is bad, but you just need to faithfully understand it. when I opened my Facebook account, whatever, you know, a long time ago, I didn't put my actual birthday. I thought it'd be really great if I put a birthday which was Cinco de Mayo nineteen twelve. nineteen twelve because that was year Fenway Park opened and I thought that was clever. So you know I'm a hundred and fourteen year old man according to Facebook. So every year on Cinco de Mayo, you just probably like anybody with a Facebook account, you get the slug of happy birthday, happy birthday, Josh, love you, happy birthday. Well, like six years ago, sure enough, my mom showed up on that thread. Happy birthday, Josh. I love you so much. I'm so glad you're my son. BigMike Coyle: Hmm. Joshua Evarts: And my wife pointed it out, because I don't really spend a lot of time on social media. And she's like, Your mom wished you happy birthday on your fake birthday. So I called her on the phone. I was like, hey, mom, Josh. She's like, hey, happy birthday. I'm like, can we talk about that? I'm like, you were the only, like, of all these people, you were actually in the room when this took place. Right? And I wanna BigMike Coyle: Right, right. That's what I was thinking. There were two of us there. Joshua Evarts: there were two of us there and a doctor, but you of all people should know. And she like sat there on the phone and she's like, that's right. You weren't born in May. I'm like, no, I wasn't born in May. And so it's the standing joke in our family. But but that's the kind of disconnect, right? That like while I while I have influence, right? I had a hundred people post on my board, happy birthday, happy birthday. And it was genuine. I think people were genuinely wishing me happy birthday. There was nothing authentic about it because those people don't actually know what my birthday is. Now, maybe that's my fault since I, you know, put out bad information that I can be blamed, but it's just an example of of how sometimes technology can can kinda blur these lines of authentic. BigMike Coyle: That is a great story. Joshua Evarts: negative now the negative to though that is, Mike, so like not only am I I I use social media and and actually my my my daughter in law is the one who manages the social media accounts that. So she does all the reels and snippets and posts and all that stuff because I I I it's not that I can't do it. I'm just not interested in that. one of the unintended consequences of disconnecting a little bit from technology, like, you know, on Friday afternoon my phone goes away and I don't pick it up and till you know Sunday night to find out when I've got to be at work on Monday is that my wife has now taken me off as her emergency contact. She's like, I don't think that, you know, law enforcement could get a hold of you if something actually happened to me. So yes, unintended consequences. BigMike Coyle: Yeah, no, I do know that about you. That Friday night your phone goes away. We've had these conversations and I think that is something very valuable that people should look into is just turning the phone off. I like when I'm working on a project or when I just need to disconnect. I'll put my phone on do not disturb. And I think we've talked about this. If not, I'll tell you like I will sit in my garage or on my patio, put my phone on do not disturb, turn on some music. Enjoy a cigar, maybe a cocktail with it, and just sit in that moment. And how that like brings me back to center. And you know, for I have a bigger social battery than you. I'm more of an extrovert than you. Which full disclosure, I can't I still don't believe that you're an introvert because you are so likable, you're so friendly, and you're so welcoming. Yeah, you're very affable. And Joshua Evarts: Affable, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. BigMike Coyle: You welcome people into your circle. You welcome people in. so I feel fortunate. Joshua Evarts: Yeah. Yeah. It's the but Mike, but Mike, it's the eighth lesson in the book. You do not have to like people. This is literally straight out of the book. I'm I'm probably sharing too much. Nobody's gonna buy it. you do not have to like people, but you're required to love them. And the and so so what I feel that I am called to do is to love others. And I have to provide a definition for that in the book, right? Like so, you know, because people look at love and is it, you know, Eros love, more the romantic love, or is it the agape love that I write about, which is just much more a service-oriented, Like I'm called to meet the needs of others. And and I think inside of that definition is that it is patient, it is kind, like these are the things that I hold myself to. But I do that because I feel like I'm called to do that. And what I have experienced in life is that when I'm doing that, it's also contagious. I think other people engage that way, and it's just a much, much better space to live in. And especially in this kind of partisan world that we live in right now, where I believe our media is. is just creating division. It's clickbait. It's like, I just want people clicking and looking and having anxiety and fear. I don't like that world. I want to live in a world where people are caring for one another, where we're being patient, where we're, you know, long suffering. Like these are the kind of attributes of the world that I want to live in. So I'm going to model those things. BigMike Coyle: Well, you model it very well. And I'm glad that you have brought me into that circle. Because like I you know, my whole message and and I've said it to you before personally, but I've said it on the show publicly, so it's out there for the world. I look at you as a mentor and and that's one of those things. It's like how to love people and how to just show that love, even if they don't know where they stand with you. You just show that love. And I think that's very important. So let's get into the book now. Joshua Evarts: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: the title, If Jesus Smoked Cigars, where did you get that from? Joshua Evarts: Yeah, I I wanted to offend as many people as possible. We had our big book signing book launch last week here in Meridian. And I can tell you my mom is not happy with the book title at all. she hates it. so I think there's part of part of me that just in my cheeky antagonistic way, I just thought it would be a great title to put on there and certainly gets people talking about about the book. But for everybody that that is listening to your show today. The book is not about Jesus, you know, it's not about cigars. It really is about people. and and and I chose this this idea of Jesus smoking cigars, and there is no evidence of it. The opening chapter of the book, I walk through here's the history of Jesus, is what we know about him, based on writings from that period of thousands of years ago. And then here's what we know about cigars, and you know, our first evidence actually of cigars being smoked is Is 10th century, so 900 years after Jesus walked the planet. So so there's not any way that Jesus ever smoked a cigar. however, we still talk about Jesus today as a as a historical figure, and and he existed in a space where he was relational. so that's really where the the the motivation for the title came into be. And certainly we tell some stories about the cigar lounge, and so it made sense to include cigars in there. I was very fortunate. the forward to the book, when I was thinking about and and inquiring as to, you know, who might be willing to write the forward to this book. And and I and I wanted somebody from the cigar industry. and the names that kind of came to mind, people that are friends of mine, the Pete Johnson, Steve Sokka, these guys would have written a forward. Now, who knows what kind of writers they are, but but they would have done something to to Help me out and support the vault. The person that I chose, though, was a guy named Drew Newman from the JC Newman family. So the longest family owned cigar manufacturer in the United States. They've been around for over a hundred years. They were started in the late 1800s. And Drew is the fourth generation owner of that company. He's an attorney by education, but now he is not just corporate counsel, but but part of the leadership team there at JC Newman Cigar. Company. and one of the things that he wrote in the forward of the book, which I really appreciated, and regardless of what your faith construct is, he would like to think that Jesus and the disciples would have been people that might have sat down and had a cigar because certainly they were breaking bread, right? That was a big part of Jesus' ministry was meals and getting together and that relationship time. And there are so many anecdotes and evidence of of those things taking place in scripture and so BigMike Coyle: you know, that that is a great concept because that's something that we do know. And we do know the communal effect of breaking bread together. You Joshua Evarts: Mm, huge. BigMike Coyle: know, sharing a meal with someone, and just talking, getting to know them. Because sharing a meal with someone is a very personal space. You're you're usually at a table close together you do get that time to just sit and share that. that connection with someone as as is smoking a cigar, going to the lounge, inviting your friends over for a cigar. It's just you're you're getting to that communal aspect. So that that's a great point to bring out. Joshua Evarts: Big Mike, let's let's let's share one more thing about that because I love giving practical things for people like like as they BigMike Coyle: Sure. Yeah. Joshua Evarts: look to implement these things out of the book. this breaking bread thing is so huge to me. Like like Laurie and I don't cook. that's it's not not that we can't cook, we choose not to. so we go out to a lot of meals and stuff like that, but it was about six or seven years ago. We just decided we're no longer bringing our phones. Like, like we want to be absolutely present together with the each other as well as people that are with us and I will tell you this is counterculture like when we go into restaurants now there's some restaurants that are like yeah we'll just scan you know we'll ask for a menu scan the QR code to get the menu I'm like I don't have a smartphone you would have thought that I told them you know that I had a horn grown out of my head that's how rare it is for somebody to show up and not have you know a phone on them or give me your phone number and I'll buzz you when the table's ready and it's like I I don't I don't have a phone I'm so sorry but what it is in enabled and and and grown in our personal relationship as well as with others is just community right and not having those devices I mean you've probably seen it Mike you go to a restaurant and you'll see a family of four and all four of them have got their faces and their screens and are looking at that and and what a missed opportunity what a missed opportunity connect so for all your listeners out there try it out you know like Start small. Like I don't believe in big swingy life changes because I don't think those stick. But but do small things. You know, if you guys have got a family night or a family dinner that you do things, be in the be in the habit of like, hey, we're all gonna bury our phones and and it'll be awkward, right? They'll be like, well, I can't look up that sports score, or I can't do this, or I can't go and text that person. But you want to know something? You survived without a phone for a long, long time. And guess what? The BigMike Coyle: Right. Right. Joshua Evarts: world kept on spinning and life kept on happening, and we went to wars and we had successes and failures and like So so it can happen. We just have to choose it. BigMike Coyle: Yeah, that's my wife and I are keep trying to do that where we'll have little games about like, okay, the first person who pulls their phone out it becomes a roast of each other. Joshua Evarts: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: But you know, that's a great concept. because we do get so attached to it. I've seen people on dates. I've seen people literally on first dates and they're Joshua Evarts: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: both on their phones across from each other and they're not communicating. Joshua Evarts: Texting. BigMike Coyle: They're not, they're not talking. And, you know, you and I both know you build a relationship through those things. And going back to your relationship with your wife, my relationship with my wife, a big chunk of the relationship with my wife was over letters. I was in Ohio serving a church mission. we met in high school, but I feel like the intimate part of our relationship was really built through those letters over that two years. Because Joshua Evarts: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: you get to know you you don't have that filter. Like when you're talking to someone, you kinda have a filter like, okay, I'm not gonna talk about this. But when you put things to paper, it's kinda like journaling. As soon as you do that, you just put it out there and it opens up the door. And and so yeah, I like that. And I'm gonna I think I'm gonna do do it your way. So you talk about the eight lessons. What lessons Joshua Evarts: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: didn't make the cut, or are those saved for the the next two books? Joshua Evarts: Yeah, so the the the next book that I'm about 30% through writing is if Jesus played golf, eight lessons in thought life. so I've been battling with golf for thirty years, losing more than I'm winning. so so some of the lessons that are specific around thought life, I saved for the second book. so so we don't we don't talk a lot in this book about the you know, sort of the inner dialogue and and how we relate with ourselves. That's much more coming in the second book. so this is really more of that external facing Good. BigMike Coyle: one of the things that I find interesting is you talk about how you like to hear stories and listen to stories. But you are a natural storyteller. We've Joshua Evarts: Mm-hmm. BigMike Coyle: sat many times. I've sat through some of your your cigar classes. You are a very gifted natural storyteller. How'd you learn to shut up? Joshua Evarts: Mm. If we are not committed to listening. Then we can't be effective leaders. So in my first company, I had a marketing director that worked for me named Rick. He was a very, very dear friend. I think Rick's maybe five or six years older than I am, and was one of my early mentors. And so in my first company, you know, as an entrepreneur, you kind of learn to do everything, right? Like I was doing the books, I was doing design work, I was programming, like building a manufacturing capability. Like you, as an entrepreneur, you're you're kind of wearing lots of hats. And I remember that he sat me down one day and he said, Josh, he's like, there's no doubt that you're better at everything than everybody else in the company. But if you're going to try to do everything, then you're only gonna grow as fast as you're willing to have no work-life balance and you're willing to flame out. So until you start listening and until you start pushing decision making. And authority out into the organization, you're not gonna grow and you're not gonna realize your full potential. And it was such an amazing conversation. And I probably swung too far far the other way. Now I don't want to do anything. Like I'm I'm really lazy. you've probably experienced this in the lounge, Mike. Like if somebody steps up and goes, hey, you know, like I can go take the chairs outside or I can do this or I can sweep up that trash or whatever, like I'm like, yeah, everybody do it. Like, yeah, super, like get your hands on the net. But becoming as a leader, if you're not able to be that listener and in and be genuinely interested in where they're at and what their needs are, then you're not gonna understand those needs and you're not gonna be able to deliver on those things and put them in positions to have success. So, yes, so becoming a listener is really, really critically important. And people feel valued when you're willing to take that time. Like I didn't understand until I opened a cigar lounge the amount of value that they attribute to me being willing to sit down and just listen in a lot of times it's nonsense right like a lot of the stories in the vault you've been in there like that you know somebody will talk 15 minutes and it'll be something that maybe doesn't even have you know any kind of purpose but the fact that I'm willing to sit there and listen and be patient and kind that elevates them like they they're they're feeling valued and by extension other people are seeing that and and and they're benefiting from that that exchange and that transaction as well BigMike Coyle: Yeah, one hundred percent. And so that that leads me to the next question I have. In that ten years of running the vault and building those relationships with your customers and with your employees and your vendors, what is something that being in the vault can teach you and can teach people that you can't learn in a corporate boardroom? Joshua Evarts: Mm, great question. what I would say is very, very unique about the cigar industry is that there is our our common denominator is not race, it's not religion, it's not social status, employed, unemployed, anything like that. The common denominator is that we're lighting our money on fire. And that just literally does not exist in corporate America, right? Outside of a cigar lounge. So I will have the preacher who's sitting across from the atheist while we have different colored folks and we have men and we have women and we have people that are extroverts and people that are introverts. And then you when you get that really 360 degree representation of society that is then having a conversation about something. Like we, you know, because we'll talk about current events, right? It's a cigar lounge. So we'll talk about current events, we'll talk about things that are happening in our community, and you're getting that that that unfiltered 360 view of that, and it's in a space where Where everybody values that, right? and I do think that's a little bit unique to the vault, because I've been in other cigar lounges across the country, and and you, and you will definitely get some some very big group think, and there'll be, you know, boy, mm, boy, I shouldn't probably bring up, you know, this topic with this group or else I'm gonna get bludgeoned. I would say something that's very, very unique to what we do in the vault is that all these views are are are valued. Now it's up to you as an individual to process that and make your own. determination as to how you're going to receive that information and act on it. But all these points are valid. And I think in typical corporate boardrooms that I've been in, it's rare to be able to have that freedom and that freedom of exchange and that real authentic where we don't have to look great. We don't have to say the right things. We we don't have to be, you know, necessarily liked to be approved. Like it's it's just very, very raw and kind of genuine in a lounge. BigMike Coyle: Well, I think that goes back to the same thing as breaking bread with someone. while you're there, you are sharing you have that shared experience. And I think this is something that COVID, I think, but also just the progress of being more technology driven where we FaceTime, we text message. It's one of those things that's very lacking is the shared experience that helps break down the barriers and helps break down the walls. That I think if we as people would do that, you know, there's there's one saying and it just popped in my head, you know, he wouldn't say that if he was in the same room with me 'cause he'd get punched in the face. But at the same time, what if he said that and instead of you taking that aspect of I'll punch you the face, why do you think that way? And getting to the bottom of that question, why do you think that way? Joshua Evarts: Yeah. We have one of our customers and he shall remain unnamed, But he had a talk with me about I I wanna say about four years ago. and he said, Josh, he's like, I just don't feel as connected at the vault. He's like, I you know, I love people, I wanna be in relationship. He's like, but I feel like I'm gonna I'm pissing everybody off, right? And I shared with him, I said, Let me give you my observation here. Yeah. Quicker you become a listener, the more influence you're going to have in here. I said, it's not being louder. It's not trying to make your point stronger. I said, it's being willing to listen to other people. I said, because you're so loud and you're so aggressive in some of these opinions, people just shut down on you. And and he b and he's a very knowledgeable guy, he's extremely bright, and yet he was overpowering the room, just trying to make these points. And it really took him being a listener. And I then I had people three months later that were like, boy, he's really changed. Like I've really appreciated having him in the lounge. Like everybody's view of him pivoted because he was willing to be a listener and he was willing to to create space for other people to to share their ideas and their experiences. BigMike Coyle: Yeah, you may be the smartest person in the room, but that doesn't mean you have to let everybody know you're the smartest person in the room. Because I don't care how smart you are, you can always learn something and and get more knowledge. that's why pro athletes still have coaches. They still have, you know, batting coaches and they've learned it all throughout their life of practicing, but they still have a coach. You know, that's why pro golfers, since golf is a passion we both share. They still have swing coaches. They still work with coaches and stuff like that. I mean, Hank Haney has made a lot of money being a swing coach for pros, and and teaching pros new approaches to the game. So just because you're the smartest one in the room, the most talented one in the room, doesn't mean, you know, like you said, just take time and let people share and and get a voice in because you may learn something in that too. Here we are. We've got the book one out. you've ran the cigar lounge for ten years and you've ran a lot of businesses. What's been the most expensive relationship in that time? Joshua Evarts: Yeah, so after I sold my first company, I can't believe I'm telling this story. This is transparency here. after I sold my first company, my wife and I had a little bit of extra money. We certainly it wasn't retirement money, but we, you know, for a young couple, you know, having a couple hundred thousand dollars in the in the bank account was, you know, a big thing, you know, and and we thought we were really making it. And we got to know a guy that through through some secondary relationships, and he ended up taking me to lunch. And I'll never forget it. He brought a briefcase and opened up the briefcase and it was these little containers, plastic containers, and they were f each one had a button of gold in it. And He said, you know, he's like, I own a mining operation. And he's like, and we're putting together investors. He's like, so the current mine operates up in in Idaho, kind of north of Stanley. And then the the money that we're raising is for this brand new facility down in Lake Havasu City, Arizona. He's like, Well, we're really gonna be able to scale up the operations, all this kind of stuff. we're looking for qualified investors, you know, that are willing to invest, you know, fifty thousand dollars. Or in $50,000 units to this this gold mining stuff. And and for historical context, gold was trading at about $270 an ounce at this time. So it was about 30 years ago. And so I remember telling my wife, I'm like, look, you know, we took lots of risk with the technology stuff, it worked out, I've got my golf game that's terrible. I was like, I'd really like to buy a couple units, I'd like to invest $100,000 into this gold, gold business. And we agreed to do it together. so we made an investment. my grandfather actually bought a unit for for 50,000. so during this entire transaction, the owner or the the the general manager of the whole thing had invited me down to Arizona to see the operations down there. And Mike, I gotta tell you, I've never been like I I got sucked in. I got sucked into like the the awe of it all. Like we get out to this process. property and there's big equipment moving, big earth and big dirt, and they had these kilns where they were firing these dory bars that looked like silver. Because you know, when you're when you're extracting gold, it's not purified yet. So it's it doesn't it doesn't look like gold yet. It looks kind of like yellowy silver, but these big heavy 40-pound dory bars are coming out of the kilns and and I I remember doing the math. And I had a spreadsheet that I'd made that you know when this thing got to full production, my monthly checks at $270 an ounce were gonna be, you know, fifty to eighty thousand dollars a month is what I was gonna be getting income for my investment. And we were so excited and and everything. And so two months into the operations, the the director guy called me on the phone. He's Josh, we got a big problem. I can you know, can you come to my office in Boise? And I said, Yes, of course. And I I was an accountant or a trained accountant and so new spreadsheets and all that stuff. And he was an attorney, so he didn't kind of come with that PL background. So I sat down and met with them and and they had gotten the initial assay reports. So they'd sent all the Dory bars to this facility in Phoenix, they'd come back and with a check, right? And that first check was supposed to be on the order of I want to say 280,000 or something like that for a couple weeks of production. And the check that came back was like six grand, and so I started reading. Through the assay reports and everything like that, and what was happening is they were they were primarily getting silver and not gold out of this, you know, this process. So there's a much bigger story to be told there. The actual guy that was running the operation was the actual, not not my friend, but the guy in Arizona. He ended up scamming everybody. he disappeared. We never found him. so what became you know this whole you know great mining opportunity investment turned Into what my accountant called a long-term deferred tax credit. So it's just a loss that took me years to recognize as I had to write it off against passive income. So yeah, so my friends like to tease me that everything that I touch turns to gold except for gold itself. in the case of gold, I'm not I'm not very good. So don't don't call me with any of those opportunities. BigMike Coyle: Well yeah, but I mean like you said, you got sucked in and and that's I think that's kind of the the boy in us, if you will. That Joshua Evarts: Sure. BigMike Coyle: we see the big tractors, we see the kilns, we see all the exciting stuff and we're like, this is cool and Joshua Evarts: Yeah. BigMike Coyle: you know, I want to be a part of this. And then all of a sudden, you know, it it turns into it turns into nothing. So it turns into less, less, a lot Joshua Evarts: Less. Less. Yeah. BigMike Coyle: less. Yeah. So as we wrap up here, Josh, I wanna ask as readers read your book, what if there's one lesson you want them to come away with, what would that lesson be? Joshua Evarts: Yeah, I I think if there's a if there is a single lesson to be taken away in this book is is to be aware that that you are having intersections every single day with others. I think there's this idea, especially as this is kind of a business leadership, self-help kind of in that category. but we all lead somewhere, right? Like we we might we might just be a shift leader at our work, or we might be a babysitter or just a basketball coach or football coach or just maybe I'm not even the head coach for the football team. I'm just a line coach. We all have opportunities where we are leading and that we're in relationship with people. And so to treat that in a more sacred way and to be thoughtful about it, you know, some simple things that I write about in the book is, you know, our affect, like smile more. Like like like when we go into these engagements, we disarm a lot of conflict and we create a a a different atmosphere when we simply are willing to smile, to be inquisitive, to be a listener. Like these are all kind of things that we can do. And we don't have to lead an organization of a thousand people to have that kind of impact. We we can do that at a very, very micro level and to be to be aware of those things. And and frankly, if this is an area that somebody struggles in where they feel like, man, I've got a resting bitch face and I don't know how to do that, then starting small is the best place to start. Take that one relationship. Don't try to fix them all. Don't try to fix yourself. Everybody, while they're listening to this, knows that there's that one person that they're a little bit sideways with right now. So make a commitment today to get on the phone with that person or go have coffee with them. Smile and listen and start repairing that one relationship. Because that's the contagious part of this that I think that as we as we do those things, that's going to replicate and and create a a a world that's just a lot more fun and and and frankly I think there's a lot more business success out there when we're engaging that way. BigMike Coyle: You know, it's it's kind of funny to me you mentioned fix those relationships. And if you look at the twelve steps, that's one of the important steps is to go out there and make amends and fix those relationships that your addiction Joshua Evarts: Absolutely. BigMike Coyle: or or you know, that you've affected. So I think it's important. I remember a a time in my life where I had it was when I worked at the sheriff's office, We just walked out of briefing and a fellow deputy came up and he was trying to be fun. He was trying to be kind, but he came and C clamped the back of my neck without me knowing he was there. Now in a correctional Joshua Evarts: Mm. BigMike Coyle: facility, that's not something you want to experience, right? Joshua Evarts: No. No. BigMike Coyle: And it was probably like night six or seven. We we worked seven straight nights and when we did nights, it was a kind of a crazy schedule I like snapped at him and I jumped at him and That really we pushed ourselves and we distance ourselves. And then probably eighteen months or maybe a year later he came up and he's Hey man, I want to fix things with you. And I'm like, look, Joe, I've had a lot of time to think. Life is too short to worry about something that happened a while ago. We're all good. It's fine. And I think that's something we need to look at is life is too short to hold on to silly grudges and at in the at the end of the day, unless they attack you personally, unless they hurt you, attack your integrity, your dignity, most of the most of these relationships are just silly. So, Josh, one thing we like to do when we wrap up here, and we've talked about your accounting professor that sent you on the path you're on. I mean, if you if you think about it, we've talked about your dad and and what he taught you in the floor in the flooring industry. Are there any other mentors in in your life that you think had a great impact in your life that you just want to give a shout out to and and share a story about. Joshua Evarts: Yeah, so the CEO that bought my company in two thousand nine, former retired Navy Master Chief, d names Ken Falk, just a really unbelievable human. was a guy that was tremendously fun. He was very, very driven, very, very disciplined. And he really took me under his wing. I didn't know anything about the federal government. I didn't know anything about the military. within, you know, two years of knowing him, I was deploying to Iraq with you know, our forces to do very, very important things out on a battle space. and Ken shared with me, you know, one thing that he had learned from his father, and I I never forget, we were at lunch and he's like, you know, there's three secrets to business success, but you only have to get two of them right. And I thought, you know, I'm a sponge. I'm like, my Goodness, I can't wait to hear these things. I said, Ken, what is it? And he's Well, number one, people like you. I'm like, okay, I can track with that. He's like, number two, people like you, and number three, you have a good product or service. And he said, Josh, at the end of the day, he's like, it if it doesn't matter how good you are, how good the product and technology are, if people don't want to work with you, they're not gonna work with you. And likewise, if people enjoy working with you, they're gonna forgive a lot of stuff. They're gonna they're gonna forgive that you missed a deadline or they're gonna forgive that something didn't work perfectly the first time out of the box. He's like, so just make sure that you maintain better relationships than your competitor. And it was such a codifying, like very astute observation that that really you know grounded a lot of this, intuitively I thought relationships were important, but I didn't I didn't maybe understand the full value of it until Ken kind of framed it that way. And Ken ended up stepping down as a CEO like 30 days after the acquisition. But I've been able to, you know, kind of follow him and his career. He started a foundation for wounded warriors and has done un unbelievable. I think he's got three facilities around around the country now for wounded vets. and he's just taken that same discipline and and relationship building and and continue to reinvest in people that that that are hurting. less fortunate and really, really grateful for having known him. BigMike Coyle: That's awesome, Josh. Thank you so much for your time. thanks for sharing your wisdom and your friendship and your messages. everybody, the book is called If Jesus Smokes Cigars, Eight Lessons or re interrelational leadership. And I think that's important because I've worked for bosses that do not have relational leadership. They would just get the task done and move along. And I've worked with with those that do. And I've seen much more success out of those that know how to build relationships. Thanks for joining us on the mentor sessions, everybody. I'm your host, Big Mike. Please remember to leave a comment, like, subscribe, and buy the book. Joshua Evarts: Thanks, Mike.