Latest / Kaleidoscope - Perspectives Beyond The Surface / Trans, Cis, Academic Journeys and The Political Climate

Transcript

Trans, Cis, Academic Journeys and The Political Climate · Kaleidoscope - Perspectives Beyond The Surface

0:00
Hi there Internet, it's me Ruby Ray and I wanted
0:05
to preempt this episode with a little bit of
0:07
an apology. I'm really sorry about the audio
0:10
quality. This episode has been sitting with me
0:13
for almost a month and I've been extremely busy
0:17
at work. I've tried my best to clean up the audio
0:20
as much as I can but there's a lot of clipping
0:23
through. Still I felt like I wanted to post this.
0:28
Regardless, I'm going to chop it up into smaller,
0:31
more palatable bits for YouTube. But the full
0:37
thing is going to be here on the podcast channels.
0:43
So thank you for listening. If you like this
0:45
kind of content and you're watching on YouTube,
0:49
I have another YouTube channel called Ruby Raid,
0:53
where I speak specifically about my life. It's
0:56
a little bit. more free because it's not dependent
1:01
on guests. Anyway, I do have another episode
1:04
that will be coming out very shortly after this
1:07
one. So I hope you enjoy that. We welcome back
1:10
Ryan, who is now officially a neurosurgeon, he
1:15
says. Anyway, thank you for listening. Do like,
1:20
comment, subscribe and share. If you want us
1:22
to talk about something specific, please let
1:24
me know. Bye. Love you and enjoy. Hello folks,
2:19
I'm Luigi, and I think baby hippos are some of
2:24
the cutest things on the planet. Wait, have you
2:27
seen the Sleepy Hippo video? Sleepy Hippo video?
2:32
I haven't. No. Okay. I'm going to have to find
2:35
it. All right. Make it happen. And then we are
2:42
joined by... Hey, I'm Nora. I'm like Ruby said,
2:46
I'm a behavioral geneticist or I'm studying to
2:49
become a behavioral geneticist and I'm based
2:51
in South Africa. Excellent. When I first spoke
2:55
to you, can I say how we met? Yeah, yeah. Okay.
3:02
Nora and I are on a Discord server together,
3:08
and I like to go onto the Discord server while
3:12
I walk my dog. That's my go -to thing to do.
3:17
Some people listen to podcasts. When I'm not
3:20
in podcasts, I'm not listening to podcasts. I'm
3:23
talking to people and looking for people to bring
3:26
onto my podcast. What happened was Nora said,
3:32
next time you're on, let me know and I'll try
3:34
and be on. And that didn't happen, kind of. And
3:37
then the other day we were on and you were like,
3:39
yes, I'm here. We spoke for like three hours.
3:45
Amazing. What brought you to that server? So
3:52
basically the server we were on is basically
3:54
one of the only platforms I've been able to find
3:58
that's like a specific queer space for South
4:02
Africans. And that's like, it's specifically
4:04
trans focused, but it's like, it's a nice space.
4:07
And also just like meeting people from your own
4:09
country that are part of the same community as
4:11
you. Exactly. One of the best things about me
4:16
as a trans woman living alone in China with only
4:20
It's the standard Luigi for company. You're not
4:24
living alone. I'm living alone. You've got a
4:27
great life. I'm really envious. I tried. You
4:31
can, all you have to do is go out and make a
4:34
drink. Yeah, for real. Yeah. Nora, there's a
4:39
running gag on this show where Luigi is misanthropic.
4:46
No, I love people. He's spending money. What's
4:51
the term? Hate it. Is there a psychological term
4:55
for it? Probably, probably is. I haven't defined
4:58
it. Let me note that down. And then in the future,
5:02
I will self -diagnose. Pure obsessive -compulsive,
5:07
maybe. Manifest as a fear of spending money.
5:12
Really hurts for me to spend money. I'm like
5:17
a bad Ebenezer Scrooge. I don't know if it hurt
5:22
Ebenezer Scrooge to spend money. But that's my
5:25
segue to talk about the theme of today's episode
5:29
and probably maybe the next few ones, because
5:32
the decor won't change. Okay. It's Christmas.
5:36
It's still Christmas in my heart. It's the late
5:39
Christmas episode. It's because we missed Christmas.
5:44
Yeah. Luigi feels the sultry. Yeah. I really
5:48
like the Christmas season, and I know for some
5:50
people it might be painful, but I'm going gang
5:53
buster on decorating. And yes, it's still up,
5:58
and that's because in China, they don't have
6:02
their New Year for another month. So for me,
6:07
it's a reason, you know, to keep up with the
6:09
festivities. I get to pretend it's Christmas
6:12
a little longer. All right. Okay, we won't mention
6:17
it again. Oh, the viewers will just have to endure
6:19
my decor, my table runners, my beautiful, you
6:24
know, little red trees. Wow. It's been five minutes
6:30
and we've been babbling. There are segments that
6:33
we're missing. Nora, when we begin this, um,
6:39
we have a quick fire round, couple of questions,
6:44
just a roundabout. I'll start. We all answer
6:48
the same question and try and keep that to like
6:54
one set. Is that okay for you? Yeah. Yeah, that's
7:00
completely fine. You go first. Why did you study
7:03
what you wanted to study? You mean in school?
7:07
Yes, in university. Because I'm a fool. So I
7:13
was always kind of... academically like lost
7:18
when I came to university. I don't know if I
7:21
really studied what I really wanted to study.
7:23
I think I did, but also kind of didn't. So I
7:26
studied, I must have changed my major a billion
7:29
times. So for me to answer that question honestly,
7:32
I don't know if it's the honest answer because
7:34
I think I was just, it's weird. I'm academically
7:38
minded, but I don't think I was supposed to.
7:41
I don't think I was meant for university. That
7:44
sounds really strange. Sounds like a paradox.
7:47
I took English literature at first, and then
7:49
I changed to economics, and then I changed to
7:54
environmental studies, and then I went back into
7:58
literature, and then I changed into rhetoric.
8:02
So I was just chronically changing my degree.
8:05
Because I really didn't know what to do with
8:07
my life. I mean, technically, I guess I still
8:09
don't. And the difference is... Now I've just
8:12
settled into it. So I have a lot of majors and
8:16
my graduate degree was in, it was called cultural
8:21
analysis and social theory. It was just cultural
8:24
studies, which is kind of like an umbrella area
8:29
of study. It combines all humanity subjects.
8:33
So again, just speaks to my lack of direction
8:37
even still. Sorry, that was a long answer. Right,
8:41
thanks for that one sentence. My bad. I blew
8:45
it. I already messed up. English! I studied it
8:50
because I like poetry. We'll delve into that
8:56
a bit later. Nora, why did you study what you
8:59
wanted to study? I kind of went into genetics
9:03
because it's one of the newer sciences, I guess,
9:06
and we're still learning so much about it. So
9:09
my thought process was I'm interested in the
9:11
subject. There's good career growth opportunity
9:14
and opportunity for the field to develop. And
9:17
also there's just a lot of career opportunities,
9:19
like in general, like different jobs you can
9:21
do with a basic genetics degree. and then specialize
9:24
further. So it allowed me flexibility while still
9:27
being something I'm interested in with a higher
9:29
earning potential. What a practical answer. Yeah,
9:32
that's a great answer. Yeah, you got a good hand
9:36
on your shoulders. I studied communication and
9:44
even though I am now running a podcast and it
9:48
seems like that's exactly what I study. Yeah.
9:52
It's not. I studied like marketing. And the reason
9:55
I studied what I studied is because it's flexible.
9:58
I wanted something super, super flexible. And
10:01
I feel like I achieved that. I think that communications
10:06
has a lot of transdisciplinary qualities in terms
10:11
of like market. Yeah. Okay. I get it. Are you
10:12
punning? No, that's not pun. That's the necessary
10:15
word. You know, communications has to do with
10:20
marketing, it has to do with, um, what's that
10:24
other word? Like when you're like in charge of
10:27
a celebrity and you do all the talking for them,
10:30
PR. Public relations, yeah. Public relations,
10:32
thank you. So yeah, I mean, rhetoric's kind of,
10:37
rhetoric does draw a lot on communications. A
10:39
lot of the classes I took in university were
10:44
alongside communication. I don't know why. My
10:47
program technically was, I think, communications,
10:50
even though it was called rhetoric. Anyway. That's...
10:56
Nora, do you have a question for us? A quickfire
10:59
question. It can be fun. Yeah. I don't know.
11:06
It's so interesting to hear your stories because,
11:08
like, we have such different approaches to what
11:11
we studied. You in communication. us STEM majors,
11:17
and also like any humanities subjects, us STEM
11:19
majors just like making fun of humanities because
11:22
it's just a little rivalry. Yeah. So did you
11:24
have any of those, um, like little rivalries
11:27
with any of your STEM friends while studying
11:29
or did you not really interact with people in
11:32
that sense? Okay. Well, you touched on something
11:36
major because, so what I studied is not technically
11:45
Um, it's, it's not, obviously it's not STEM.
11:49
It was managed, it was commercial from degree.
11:54
Um, but I was registered for international relations
12:01
for the entirety of my study until the exam was
12:07
written. And that was because I suck at maths.
12:11
Really? Yeah, I had dyscalculia. I feel like
12:17
you told me this before. Yeah, HRT has basically
12:21
eliminated that. Now you can do math? Now I can
12:25
do found the cure for dyscalculia, it's HRT.
12:27
I can read numbers better. So anyway, yeah, all
12:34
of my studies, I was registered for BK Relations.
12:42
And then after my last exam, I walked into the
12:46
office like, look, I have none of the credits
12:49
for this. All of the credits for this changed
12:52
me. And they did. But to answer your question,
12:57
I'm still my best, most persistent friend from
13:02
high school is a senior software in a cloud service.
13:11
I had good relations with most of the STEM people
13:14
and almost zero relations with any of my own.
13:17
Me? I don't know. Also, I had deep shame for
13:21
being in the humanities because I went to a school
13:25
that was famous for engineering and math. Um,
13:29
but I was also very aware that what I studied
13:34
wouldn't necessarily result in a fruitful career
13:39
or at least one. That's what I thought 20 years
13:42
ago. But I find nowadays because of social media
13:48
and AI and all this stuff, it's actually, I think
13:50
now humanities graduates do pretty well. The
13:54
landscape changed. But I don't recall having
13:59
any peers that were engineers like that that
14:05
I hung out with. But I mean, everybody here in
14:08
the humanities. You're kind of not. Like you
14:13
were like a social pariah. Yeah. And scoffed
14:16
at. That was my undergrad. But my grad was a
14:19
different school. Great place. Loved it. They're
14:22
like science. What's that? Get out of here. And
14:25
you studied a whole bunch of... Whole bunch of
14:28
queer, queer color folk. Yep. And that's kind
14:33
of, kind of a lot of where... I found the comfort
14:40
in building now long. Friendship. Oh, you're
14:47
back. Yeah, sorry. I just received a phone call.
14:49
I told people not to bother me, but sometimes
14:52
people don't respect your time or your wishes.
14:54
You're just too popular. They're just my grandparents,
14:57
but yeah, I told them not to bother me. Invite
15:02
them on. Yeah, bring them on. They're South African
15:06
old people. They aren't suited for this type
15:10
of climate, I guess, if that makes sense. Yeah,
15:13
I mean, coming from conservative South Africa
15:17
myself. What about your relationship with, I
15:22
guess, cross -disciplinary students? The echo
15:27
kind of made that a bit difficult to understand.
15:30
Would you mind just repeating the question? Sorry.
15:32
Sure. I mean, it's your own question. You you
15:37
asked you asked us about The act relationship
15:44
Yeah, I don't I just I'm part of this like day
15:50
residence where it's just a bunch of like a group
15:52
of people that interact daily So we get to interact
15:54
with a bunch of different majors and stuff. So
15:57
it's just fun having a little rivalry between
16:01
the humanities and the stem students because
16:03
it's only with my friends, but They like to say
16:06
we have no emotional intelligence, and we like
16:08
to say they can't do math. So we just like to
16:12
playfully tease one another, I guess. Okay. That's
16:17
cool. Real simple. Ready? Cosplay or no cosplay?
16:25
Cosplay. Do I have to answer next? Nora, you
16:30
answer. Go! Like, cosplay or no cosplay? Like,
16:34
do I like cosplay? Yeah. Sure. Interpret however
16:39
you see fit. I've never done it, but I love it
16:41
when other people do it because they're so good
16:43
at it. Like, sometimes recently I saw this, like,
16:47
Springtrap cosplay with, like, the full animatronic
16:49
suit that they were able to, like, articulate
16:51
and move in. That's really cool. But personally,
16:54
I don't think I'd ever do it, if that makes sense.
16:58
I don't know if I could do it either. I mean,
16:59
I know people do it, but sometimes... Kind of
17:02
freaks me out, but that's just me. What can I
17:04
say? I love cosplay. I cosplay whenever I get
17:09
the opportunity. Whenever I get the opportunity.
17:17
I was bad a moment ago, but it's better now that
17:20
you're talking. Okay, yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay.
17:34
I'm going to move on to the next segment of today's
17:39
podcast and that is to share perspectives. And
17:42
honestly, I had such a great perspective lined
17:45
up while I was driving here today and I completely
17:50
forgot about it. So I'm going to bring it back
17:53
to my experience in something that I'm struggling
17:56
with right now. And that is this. live in China.
18:02
I have applied to have my gender name, gender
18:05
marker and name changed in South Africa and I
18:09
have spent close to a thousand RMB trying just
18:16
to call the Department of Home Affairs in my
18:19
country to find out if my changes have been done.
18:23
I have spent hours and hours on hold and my perspectives
18:28
is this. All phone calls should be free and all
18:34
telephonic companies should be government owned
18:36
and publicly sponsored. There should be no such
18:40
thing as a telecommunications company unless
18:44
you want to upgrade. Free phone calls internationally
18:47
for everyone. That's the only way that the future
18:51
happens. Okay. Not to a mad lot. No. Okay. Hi.
19:20
I'm trying to So, I mean, it'd be nice. Yes,
19:49
the phone companies are owned by China, but I
19:53
am not DHA. Okay. Change of my perspectives.
19:57
Governments should all have video IP services
20:00
to phone. What does it feel like? Voice over
20:03
IP. Should I explain? If you want. And I think
20:16
I also, I'm not completely sure. The technical
20:18
side of things has always eluded me. I am a biology
20:22
nerd through and through. All of this stuff about
20:25
like people talking about their computers and
20:27
stuff. It just flies over my head. Okay. As the
20:30
IT person then, voiceover IP means it's internet
20:35
phone. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's internet phone. Whenever
20:38
you phone someone with voice to like another
20:41
thing, it uses an IP address to route instead
20:43
of the conventional phone services. I'm all for
20:47
it. I don't know. My perspective on what you
20:54
said would kind of be like, because I feel like
20:57
as a South African, I kind of have a bit of a
20:59
more unique experience with the government side,
21:01
where if you leave anything to our government,
21:05
it probably isn't going to be that great. I mean,
21:08
our public health services, our train services,
21:10
or anything. So if I were to be in a country
21:14
where I know the government has low levels of
21:17
corruption, actually uses funds for what they
21:19
have to, then I would agree to that. But I don't
21:23
really trust my government to build the infrastructure
21:26
and maintain the infrastructure that would allow
21:28
these things to function. Happy. That is a super
21:35
valid point. It is. I think that what's happened
21:40
in South Africa is there has been such a focus
21:44
on, on companies doing it. We have, we have three
21:47
major companies. They're called Tolcom, Selsy,
21:51
MTN04, and Vodacom. These three companies are
21:55
partially government owned already, but they
21:58
are so corrupt. That Vodacom, for example, got
22:03
kicked out of Nigeria for overcharging for cell
22:06
phone services because they were just like, that
22:09
government there was, we're not having this.
22:11
Meanwhile, in South Africa, they are fleecing
22:14
us on prices to a degree that's just really not
22:17
acceptable. Think paying, I paid 2000 RMB or
22:24
a thousand RMB. That's about 2000 grand. Yeah
22:52
I came like like Maybe like a thousand rb a month
22:57
Just to use the phone Internet. I don't even
23:00
know they have you subscribe to As far as I know
23:04
it's packages that include the phone in the you
23:07
can't separate them. Even like television. Well,
23:11
you might just use it for two minutes. Of course,
23:16
there are smaller companies that try and circumvent
23:19
that. Like you pay 200 RMB a month for internet.
23:27
The viewers don't really understand that money,
23:28
do they, Ruby? 200 RMB a month is 400 Rand or...
23:35
30 US dollars. Yeah, 30 US dollars, which I think
23:38
is pretty cheap, pretty affordable for American.
23:42
Yeah, expensive. Anyway. Yeah. I kind of think
23:48
that's my whole perspective. It's not a great
23:50
one today. Don't admit it. Yeah, I don't, I'm
23:57
more so for, I guess, socio as like a socialist,
24:00
capitalist, make sure where we still have that
24:02
drive. to motivate people, but like a universal
24:05
basic income along with education, housing, food,
24:10
all of that stuff. So I apply that to a lot of
24:13
concepts in the sense of like what we were just
24:15
talking about, like it should be free. I believe
24:17
that everybody should have access to it, but
24:19
then you have taxes, for instance, that help
24:23
maintain the infrastructure. Like you're still
24:24
paying for it in some way. It's moderated by
24:27
a government body and not for a for -profit company.
24:30
Remind me, YouTube, South Africa. leans towards
24:34
socialism or capitalism? Socialism, I'd say socialism.
24:40
There you go. I mean, good, but also from what
24:45
you guys tell me, it's pretty corrupt. I guess
24:49
you can kind of think about it as pre -World
24:52
War II Russia or World War II Russia, where this
24:56
system was hijacked by a couple of corrupt companies
24:59
and driving it in a specific direction. that
25:03
nobody wanted. A little bit, yeah, but I kind
25:06
of think even though where we live is not communist
25:11
and neither is it purely socialist, there's a
25:14
lot of socialist policies here that work. And
25:18
the degree of capitalism is still being exploited
25:22
by, if you look at companies like Alibaba and
25:27
so forth. But the system really Kind of works.
25:31
I have no comment. If I could change one thing
25:34
about China, it would be censorship. Just give
25:38
me YouTube. Just give me uncensored internet.
25:42
Yeah, that'd be nice. And give me parties that
25:49
allow large groups of people to gather for a
25:53
specific purpose. That happens. Yeah. Unless
25:56
I just don't get out enough. Yeah, there aren't,
26:00
but there are no like pride martyrs or days dedicated.
26:04
Yeah, sure enough. Maybe someday, just in our
26:08
time. Oh yeah. I'm going to say like you're muted,
26:12
Luigi. So like I'm only hearing tidbits of your
26:15
conversation through Ray's microphone. I will
26:19
be mindful. Apologies. Here, I'll just keep it.
26:26
It's on all the time. Okay. I'll ask for authority
26:31
property. I have a question. That's a really
26:40
interesting question because it's really difficult
26:42
for me to say because with the like rise, like
26:46
far right rhetoric that is coming out, what I
26:48
mean by that is not like people being conservative.
26:51
I mean, the removal of certain groups, like minority
26:54
groups and marginalized groups, human rights,
26:56
in places I thought were completely safe from
26:59
that. It's a really difficult thing to think
27:02
about, but probably somewhere like Berlin or
27:06
somewhere in Sweden, something like that where
27:08
I know that my public services are going to be
27:12
good. And also I don't have to fear for my life
27:14
every time I go outside. But it's really difficult
27:17
to say because what I thought a few months ago
27:19
where I wanted to live is not where I think I
27:22
want to live now. So when I was a child, it was
27:31
America. Like America was like the place to be.
27:33
You know, like everybody, it was drilled into
27:35
you as a child. You need to get a good education,
27:38
get a job in America, if you're a South African,
27:40
and then go over there. Then it was Canada for
27:43
a bit, but kind of in all honesty, like both
27:45
of them are kind of falling apart, especially
27:47
America. And then, then it wasn't - What have
27:49
you heard? Then it was to the European side,
27:53
but then the whole, all of the housing and economic
27:56
issues that are coming up there. So probably
27:58
somewhere that's really queer -friendly now,
28:01
like Berlin. It was always like, a few months
28:03
ago, it was like, what do you call those countries?
28:06
Nordic country that are up there. But yeah, currently
28:11
it's mainly Berlin. Okay, so Germany has the
28:15
AFD. So, I mean, for me, the AFD is kind of scary.
28:20
thing if you if you had to ask me right now as
28:23
a transformer living in the world if i could
28:27
move back anywhere and not have a concern for
28:30
safety and where i felt kind of comfortable the
28:34
biggest issue is money like i need to have an
28:37
income that is going to sustain a certain level
28:41
of comfort and the ability to maintain medical
28:45
care um so If I could move somewhere, actually,
28:52
where I could be sure that I would have all of
28:55
those things, it would be South Africa, because
28:57
that's where I've been, where I've felt sent.
28:59
And then the other places are Thailand and China.
29:03
I don't have a context for the rest of the world,
29:06
but I know that they're increasing narrative.
29:18
My question is what about South Africa? How do
29:22
you feel living there? Do you fear for your life?
29:26
For the because you are Transgender or do you
29:31
fear for your life because it's a dangerous Less
29:35
so because of the meeting trans because we have
29:38
some of the most Not necessarily specifically
29:40
where I live, but South Africa has some really
29:43
great queer spaces. It's more so just like when
29:45
you start to fully pass and people view you as
29:48
a woman, now you become susceptible to the extremely
29:51
high femicide rates. And I don't know the level
29:55
of censorship, but there are some really horrible
29:57
things happening over here. Like about 11 women
29:59
die a day due to femicide, like just because
30:03
they're a woman. So like actually being trans
30:06
and passing. feels really, really dangerous given
30:10
how women are treated in this country. I feel
30:13
the same. I don't feel the same here. I feel
30:17
like China is the safest country I've ever walked
30:19
in. It's really interesting. I guess a really
30:49
interesting thing I've come across recently is
30:53
more so how I feel like, especially given the
30:55
current rise in right -wing rhetoric, I feel
30:59
like the people on the left should focus more
31:02
on being united than necessarily being like,
31:06
I am this person and I say this and this and
31:09
this and this. We should just be united for everybody's
31:12
human rights instead of being like, you are using
31:17
this term incorrectly or you are doing this incorrectly.
31:19
I feel like there's a larger threat that's coming
31:23
to a lot of our rights that isn't really being
31:27
talked about enough because I feel like the left
31:29
is very fragmented, whereas the right is very
31:32
united, if that makes sense. I hear what you're
31:34
saying. And as long as... So they can maintain
33:37
power. I think it's worse than that. Okay. I
33:41
think it comes from your right. Trans people
33:44
are constantly targeted and relentless in the
33:48
media. Even to the point where if you look at
33:51
How can I not remember? Rebecca Goode, who was
33:55
shot and killed three, four days ago by an ICE
33:59
agent. The next day, Jesse Wilson on Fox News
34:03
started off saying she was killed of, she had,
34:09
she used pronouns in her bio. She was lesbian.
34:14
She was married and had three kids. Yeah, to
34:16
a woman. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, but. The
34:20
narrative, the news that you tend to watch, the
34:24
reach is kind of partisan, neutral, to an extent,
34:29
but it's also poisoned by hiding the truth. Whereas
34:35
Fox News is just overtly hostile to the queer
34:39
community. And they have this benefit of a cult
34:43
following where they just... do and say what
34:47
they want. And it's purely about the hate. It's
34:51
not about, it's about hate and violence. Yeah.
34:55
And what I think what Nora is saying is there
34:58
is a problem on where a group of people, like
35:07
some lefties, they will obsess about doing things
35:12
right. As opposed to taking, saying like, look,
35:15
there's a, there's a minimum, there's a, there's
35:19
a bar that has been reached. And from now on,
35:22
we need to get shit down as opposed to focusing
35:26
on having it the way that we need to have it.
35:29
Yeah. Fair enough. Yeah, you're right. Yes. So
35:36
then how do you get those people who, how do
35:38
you get those people to like recognize that?
35:42
stopping in their own kind of like bubble of
35:45
rage. Wait, are we talking left or right? Let's
35:50
just say left for sake of art. Because some people
35:52
really want to just, it's more of, it's like
35:55
when a person drinks coffee in the morning, they
35:57
get really excitable. They don't understand that
36:00
it's the coffee making them really excitable.
36:02
And it's kind of like, so that's how I liken
36:04
it to those kinds of people who use that kind
36:07
or who get really What's the word? Okay, I think
36:13
you're really excited by getting to debate and
36:16
talk about things But it's not really paying
36:17
attention to the the real issues. Does that make
36:20
sense? Mm -hmm. I think be honest Am I explaining
36:25
myself clearly I think so you say I think so
36:28
means no, you don't know what I'm saying. So
36:31
Ruby your point was that yeah people now correct
36:35
me if I'm wrong people need to just Get over
36:38
there hang ups and just, you know, stick to the
36:42
real issues of like solving a problem, right?
36:45
I'll give you an example. Okay. I want to clarify
36:48
this, but yeah, give me an example. On the way
36:50
driving here today, I had, I was in a chapter.
36:53
Okay. And I was talking to people and somebody
36:56
mentioned that they were having a, they had a
37:03
problem. Yeah. They'd been assaulted. Okay. Let
37:06
me think about how I need to answer this. There
37:08
were two people there. answering the questions
37:11
and prescribing how this person who was assaulted
37:16
should feel over and over and over as opposed
37:20
to just letting that person talk. And with that,
37:24
I think there's another problem where, let's
37:27
say somebody misgenders me, right? I'm busy doing
37:33
something and they misgender me and I go, you
37:35
misgender me. And they go, oh shoot, I'm sorry.
37:40
I shouldn't have done that. I go, no, that's
37:43
fine. Let's carry on. And then a minute later,
37:46
they bring it up again, and then again, and then
37:49
again, because they carry this guilt for whatever.
37:54
As opposed to just moving on from this situation.
37:57
What do you think, Norah? Yeah, I've also experienced
38:01
that in a lot of queer spaces where people are
38:04
really, really worried and they constantly talk
38:06
about specific issues instead of moving on, I
38:09
guess, in the way that you've described it. But
38:11
I don't know, for me personally, if somebody
38:13
misgenders me or somebody makes a mistake and
38:15
you're like, hey, you did this, I didn't like
38:18
that, can we please not do that? And then they
38:21
don't do it anymore. For me, it's more about
38:22
not the mistake itself, but the effort afterwards.
38:26
Like, is this person... actually putting in the
38:29
effort. And that way I wouldn't mind, but also
38:32
constantly being forced to, I guess, not forced,
38:36
but having this person's guilt projected onto
38:39
yourself. It's a really difficult thing to deal
38:41
with because now you're apologizing, like it
38:45
feels like you're apologizing for making them
38:46
feel guilty. If that makes sense, if they're
38:49
like constantly projecting it onto you. Yeah.
38:52
And then there's the problem of where some people
38:54
might go and police. Like maybe, Luigi, you've
39:01
actually never done this, but let's say there's
39:03
this situation where you accidentally misgendered.
39:07
I can't imagine someone else policing you. That
39:12
would annoy you. Okay. I feel like we're diverging
39:17
at the original point and now we're talking about
39:19
something else. But yeah, it would annoy you.
39:25
Yeah, there's a problem of policing. Okay, so
39:28
then, are we saying the issue then is that, I
39:32
don't know anymore. We've gone off the rails.
39:35
What's the original point that we're trying to
39:39
make about the left? Too many different camps
39:43
on the left. Oh, so, okay, other people are policing
39:48
others on the right. And they're doing that by
39:52
saying things or by policing their their language,
39:58
their what? Their thoughts. Nitty is fractured
40:00
because people are too focused on being perfectly
40:03
unified. Is that it? Or are they too focused
40:06
on being too PC? The way I look at it is, is
40:09
that they're being too concerned too much with
40:12
political correctness. And that, the issue with
40:15
that is... It's the same cup. Stop! Stop! No!
40:21
No! You're ruining my train of thought! The issue
40:24
is... When you're trying to police others on
40:28
how to be it's a distraction from Actually solving
40:32
the problem. So if you're worried now, you're
40:34
looking at me like that smile like oh, you're
40:36
such an idiot I don't know. I don't know I was
40:40
right all along All right PC bath Yeah, all that
40:45
stuff. Wait, it's not important knowing which
40:48
dantic intellectual jargon Isn't the issue and
40:52
it's a distraction. But how do you convince people?
40:55
How do you stop those people from seeing red?
41:00
Let's say someone gets really mad that you called
41:04
a toilet a john and that's offensive and it should
41:09
be a water closet and they're so mad until you
41:12
check yourself. How do you get them out of that
41:15
frame of mind? Because my argument is that some
41:17
people are disingenuous and they like that kind
41:21
of state and it really gets them going. It's
41:25
like a form of like mental masturbation and that's
41:27
really what they're into. That's their king.
41:30
Not actually, you know, doing the work to solve
41:35
a real problem. Maybe they're afraid and they
41:39
think deep down inside. That's like their way
41:42
of distracting people from knowing their... I
41:47
don't know. So many possibilities. Help me out
41:49
ladies. I think personally that the real only
41:52
way to affect that in a meaningful way would
41:57
be to have like a greater mind shift, like a
42:00
frame shift of what it means to be a part of
42:04
the left and what it means to fight for human
42:06
rights and equality. It shouldn't be this like
42:09
nitpicky thing of getting everything right, but
42:12
making sure that, hey, everybody can live a normal
42:16
lifestyle without the fear of death or persecution.
42:20
I think that a mind shift is what's needed. and
42:23
like the greater left community. And yeah, that's
42:28
what I would say. I think a level of respect
42:32
being afforded to different perspectives with
42:38
the understanding that there is a line that cannot
42:43
be crossed, but also allowing interactions to
42:48
happen between people without interfering. like
42:53
with the trust that both of those people have
42:56
the intelligence to do that. And this is really
42:59
where the problem kind of manifests more than
43:05
it should. I don't know the answer is what I'm
43:07
trying to say. I know the answer based on my
43:10
opinion. They need to get over their silly PC
43:14
-ness. I don't know how to change people. No,
43:16
what I think is I think people can change. Okay.
43:19
Nora, do you see a lot of this in university
43:21
now? Like, do you see these kinds of people who
43:24
are like PC police policing others saying you
43:27
need to do this, but you can't say that. And
43:28
it's really not about the real issues. I think
43:32
it's less so an issue specifically with the people
43:36
I've met at university because of my country's
43:38
backgrounds, of me and Ray's country's background
43:40
with all the like the racism and everything.
43:44
People are still a lot more focused on actually
43:47
just being together and being a mixed country,
43:51
I guess, instead of a separated country. So there
43:54
are some people, but it's a lot less common than
43:56
what I would see from, let's say, on this court,
43:59
my American friends. We're way more focused on
44:01
just being a group of people together and being
44:04
harmonious than necessarily the PC bits. But...
44:09
Okay, go ahead, Remy. I want to say that a big
44:13
part of the war on PC... can be attributed to
44:18
American media manipulation because a lot of
44:23
the PC stuff stems from American news cycle.
44:30
I don't know. I'd have to do the research. I
44:33
don't know. Obviously this is not a scientific
44:36
opinion, but from what I see and feel anecdotally
44:42
is that The war on being politically correct
44:47
is fueled by American rage mongers like Donald
44:54
Trump, because nobody cares. I don't think Donald
44:57
Trump's politically correct. I don't think he
44:58
cares that he's politically correct. Yeah, he's
45:01
a rage monger. That's my point. Okay. He uses
45:06
an opinion that... has been scientifically settled.
45:13
For example, the trans sports event, right? Trans
45:17
people have been playing sports in the Olympics
45:19
for like 20, 30 years. Okay. Nobody's ever won
45:23
a medal, but somehow suddenly we're suddenly
45:28
stealing all of the medals. Right. So that like
45:32
topic that feels different is just being used.
45:37
Whereas before nobody actually cared. You're
45:39
right. Yeah. Yes, I agree with the nobody actually
45:42
cares, but it's it's oh, what's it called when
45:45
we do that? I don't know it's the the Getting
45:50
people to respond to their their feelings That
45:54
really prevents the the problem from being solved
45:57
that makes sense Talk amongst yourselves. Let
46:01
me think about this. I know what I'm saying,
46:03
but I don't know what I'm saying I'm gonna mute
46:05
you for a while Nora. Tell me what you think
46:08
A little tangent about the sports thing, I was
46:11
on the fence about it in terms of the actual
46:15
science. Because in certain sports, having a
46:17
certain bone structure or bone density, whatever
46:19
it may be, can technically give you an advantage.
46:23
But then I started HRT. And the things I was
46:26
able to do, they're not possible anymore. Picking
46:30
up the water jug and putting it back on top of
46:33
the water cooler, I went from a one -hand thing
46:36
of just like... it's like 40 -ish pounds. Like,
46:38
picking it up with one hand, lifting it over
46:40
my hand, just putting it on to, okay, it's on
46:43
my legs, it's on my chest, let's go up, and then
46:46
we put it down. Because it's like, it's such
46:48
a, like, after personally experiencing it, I
46:50
really don't see how that would affect us. And
46:54
also, aren't a lot of transfemes testosterone
46:57
levels just lower than a lot of natural fems,
47:00
especially if you're still on, like, a higher
47:01
dose of Spiro? Like, the normal aren't just,
47:04
like, 50 -ish? where most people are below that
47:07
like the 20s or the 30s. Yeah there's a few factors
47:10
here that you mentioned and you're right testosterone
47:14
puberty results in a thicker butt structure and
47:19
testosterone supports muscle mass but once you
47:23
switch over muscle mass ligament all soft tissues
47:27
start changing over time and when you are when
47:33
you have potentially this marginally thicker
47:37
bone structure because let's be honest it's not
47:40
the difference between like titanium and aluminum
47:44
it is the difference between like kinds of hardwood
47:50
that you find in the wild different trees it's
47:55
not it's not pine and oak it's more like oak
47:59
and red wood, if there is a difference. I'm using
48:02
this analogy, I don't know anything about wood,
48:05
but the bottom line is a thicker bone structure
48:09
with equal muscle mass, or even if some of the
48:12
muscle mass is retained with exercise, so that
48:16
makes it genetic, that can be a disadvantage.
48:19
Here I am now with maybe equal muscle mass, but
48:24
thicker bones. So on surfing sports, that's not
48:27
going to be an advantage as all, for example,
48:30
my muscles are working harder. And then from
48:32
my own anecdotal experience, I used to be much
48:37
stronger than I am now. I could easily deadlift
48:41
a hundred and not easily. I could get up to 185
48:44
kilograms. That is much more than most cis men.
48:48
Um, my partner, who is a cis woman. can now lift
48:53
more than me no matter how hard I try. I bench
48:59
50, she benches 75. That being said, she is a
49:04
personal trainer. However, as a person with a
49:09
personal trainer, as a life partner, I also train
49:13
and I have a bench press in my house and I'm
49:17
still not stronger. Like it's not an innate thing.
49:22
So that was a long tangent there. A long aside.
49:27
Can I talk now? Can you unmute me? Okay, so talk
49:34
about your Trump point again. What did you say
49:36
Trump does? Trump? Fear mongers. Okay, fear mongers.
49:41
And why does he do that? to feel and unify people
49:47
that are slightly out of touch with a certain
49:50
topic. So he's cultivating, he's cult -avating.
49:57
He's creating a cult. Yeah, I guess so. Well,
50:01
no, I know what you're saying. So the point I
50:02
wanted to say was that he's using feelings. He
50:06
wants to appeal to people's feelings. I have
51:39
an interesting tidbit about do your own research.
51:44
I have some - Oh yeah? I'm sorry. No, an interesting
51:56
tidbit, which I think kind of sort of relates
51:58
to this, but where people are always like, no,
52:00
do your own research. I personally don't think
52:03
that people, the laymen, should be doing their
52:07
own research. Like, as somebody who's actively
52:10
in university and learning how to do research,
52:14
it's like you can look at research, but you're
52:16
not technically researching. You're doing the
52:20
first steps of researching. You're gathering
52:21
the information. We spend years learning how
52:24
to isolate our variables, how to manage your
52:27
confounding variables, your nonsense variables,
52:29
how to set up an experiment and actually test
52:31
something for what it is. So it's like... I don't
52:35
know, it's more a semantic thing, I guess, of
52:36
like, go look at research and then make an informed
52:40
opinion about it. But by definition, like I wouldn't
52:43
necessarily say anybody's like, like the layman
52:46
isn't really doing their own research, if that
52:48
makes sense. It's just like a little semantic
52:49
tip about being in STEM. Yeah, true. I would
53:48
argue that true objectivity is impossible for
53:50
humans because we are subjective beings who view
53:52
the world through our own biases and lenses.
53:55
But that's why the scientific process is so great
53:58
because it's repeatable. You know, it's multiple
54:01
different people can do the same experiment and
54:03
you can still find the same. You don't have to
54:05
be like a biologist or a physicist to do experiments
54:07
like people in humanities, like psychology. They
54:10
also do really valid and good experiments. that
54:13
are repeatable and testable. And that's kind
54:15
of the way we subvert our biases and our own
54:19
conclusions to be closer to the truth is by basically
54:23
just doing a bunch of repetition. about this
56:31
specific thing we were talking about. But just
56:33
like one last thing, because I'm in behavioral
56:36
genetics, a lot of my modules and areas of studies
56:40
are also focused in the psychology field. So
56:43
how we would do qualitative research in the psychology
56:48
field would be, like you said, we just talk to
56:51
people. Normally, the more people you get, and
56:54
the more responses you get, the more validated
56:57
your research is. by means of expanding your
57:02
database and getting an average. But that's not
57:05
really speaking to, cause I don't really think
57:07
objective morality or objective, like an objective
57:10
way of learning exists. So when answering these
57:13
types of questions, like I really don't feel
57:16
like there is going to be a scientific way to
57:18
answer these questions because they're subjective
57:21
questions. Like this question changes from person
57:23
to person. So it's... I agree in your sentiment
57:28
in that it's really difficult for these types
57:31
of issues to objectively be able to convince
57:34
somebody of a specific issue. Instead of like,
57:39
you're forced to go for an emotional appeal.
1:03:55
I was just doing the little thing, but no, I
1:03:59
think for me, it's mainly that, especially with
1:04:01
the older ones, the operative change in the narrative
1:04:05
can only happen through a man. With Princess
1:04:10
and the Frog, it's a bit different. Moana, it's
1:04:14
a bit different. But like with especially the
1:04:16
older ones, like Snow White, Cinderella, the
1:04:19
operative change has to happen through a man.
1:04:21
Like she isn't really, she's a hard worker, but
1:04:24
It's happening through What I mean is from a
1:04:38
narrative standpoint like she's lost on her own
1:04:41
or she's struggling on her own and instead of
1:04:44
overcoming that personal tyranny that subverted
1:04:47
by The Prince Charming coming in and swooping
1:04:51
her and taking her away from her situation There's
1:04:54
a lot less character growth and a lot less fighting,
1:04:58
I guess, especially with the older ones than
1:05:00
with the newer ones who have more of an actual
1:05:03
negligible effect on the plot, like on the narrative
1:05:06
of the story, if that makes sense, if I'm communicating
1:05:09
properly. This is a really interesting topic
1:08:53
like especially with I would say a character
1:08:55
that I could point to that I'd be like that is
1:08:58
a few a strong female lead that Still has a romantic
1:09:02
interest and it's not defining her personality
1:09:04
But also is a strong warrior would be like Katara
1:09:08
from Avatar the Last Airbender Like she's a strong
1:09:11
independent woman that has operative on the narrative
1:09:14
But she still has a love interest So I would
1:09:20
like to see media moving more towards women as
1:09:23
people and less women as like a damsel in distress
1:09:27
or like basically character like, how do you
1:09:31
say that in English? Like archetyping women in
1:09:35
a very, I need help kind of way. Instead of,
1:09:39
I don't maybe know what I'm doing, but I have
1:09:42
the capacity to learn and to grow, I guess is
1:09:44
what I'm seeing with a lot of media and women.
1:09:47
Yeah, it's good that. Recently, it's come up
1:09:50
more, like we're getting more actual characters
1:09:52
out of like females. Yeah, I love Katara. Katara,
1:09:57
I think, is a really great example of a strong
1:09:59
female main character. Oh, no, I think you're
1:10:27
thinking about Cora. But yeah, Cora was, yeah.
1:10:39
Ooh, why? Yeah, yeah, she she does mean and this
1:11:01
is what's really cool about her. She's allowed
1:11:03
to have a romantic relationship Without it defining
1:11:07
character development or her I guess combat ability
1:11:11
in air quotes Like she's a formidable fighter
1:11:13
and a strong woman But still allowed to have
1:11:18
caring side and a loving side with the blood
1:12:26
specifically, like when she was forced to use
1:12:31
it on the person that taught her that, to save
1:12:34
Ang and something, like she was crying. She was
1:12:37
disgusted. She never wanted to use that ever
1:12:40
again because of just how like, like violating
1:12:44
it is to the other person. So like she still
1:12:47
has her values. in the sense of valuing autonomy
1:12:52
and valuing other people. But in a certain situation,
1:12:55
it's like when you're forced to defend yourself,
1:12:57
I guess, like you can still value human life,
1:12:59
but want to defend your own life, I guess. Yeah
1:14:11
to talk about and like talk with especially if
1:14:13
they're like pretty much similar to me because
1:14:15
I have gotten these these remarks before about
1:14:19
the way I speak The way I like to communicate
1:14:22
my inner thoughts, so that would be really interesting
1:15:12
I think Kaptara is a great, like the question
1:15:16
would be, is Kaptara from Avatar the Last Airbender
1:15:20
a well -written female character in this sense
1:15:24
of communicating aspects of humanity while still
1:15:27
having a strong feminine base? and unmute myself.
1:16:11
And then I will run the closing. This has been
1:16:15
Kaleidoscope. I am Ruby Ray. Today I was joined
1:16:19
with Nora, a behavioral biologist from South
1:16:24
Africa and my lovely co -host, Joiji. You can
1:16:28
find Kaleidoscope on YouTube at Echo Embers or
1:16:33
sorry, Echo Perspectives at Echo Perspectives.
1:16:37
You can find more of me at ruby r -a -e -d on
1:16:43
YouTube, my other personal channel. You can find
1:16:46
both of those things on Instagram at fire from
1:16:50
heat and on TikTok, heat from fire. If you don't
1:16:56
know, that is a trans voice training phrase from
1:17:00
a poem from a very famous transgender voice trainer
1:17:06
who has unfortunately passed. That's dear. It's
1:17:11
heat from fire, fire from heat. Thank you so
1:17:15
much for watching. Please answer the question.
1:17:18
What's her name? Katara. Is Katara a good female
1:17:23
character while representing facets of humanity,
1:17:29
having a love interest, while still maintaining
1:17:32
feminine ideals? I'll clarify that in the question.
1:17:36
Give us your answer. Yes or no? I love you. Do
1:17:40
you guys want to say goodbye? Bye!