Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / 'Everyone was suspect. And I suspected everyone': Karina Vetrano's dad reveals heartbreak, Part 1

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'Everyone was suspect. And I suspected everyone': Karina Vetrano's dad reveals heartbreak, Part 1 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Surveillance video taken just moments
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: before the thirty year old New York City woman was
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: beaten and strangled to death while on a late afternoon
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: brun We need to find this predator now, more than
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: six months after the grizzly murder? Why did you kill her?
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Police say they've found the needle in the haystack, tracking
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: down the man they believe is responsible. Twenty year old
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Chanel Lewis lived three and a half miles away from
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: the crime scene with his mother. Follow Up investigation developed
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: forensic evidence linking him to the crime. Lewis was interviewed
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: by detectives and made detailed, incriminating statements and admissions. You
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: are hearing our friend at ABC World News tonight. That's
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Maria she of a compo. Is that how it all started?
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: The murder of a beautiful, brilliant girl, Karina Vatranto. Is
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: this where it started? And today has it ended in
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: a court of law? I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, with me right now
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: is who I consider to be a friend and Phil Vatranto.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: I don't know whether I should be happy for you
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: and your beautiful wife. I don't know. Let me just
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: say that your daughter, Carina Vatrano killer has been convicted.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: And I started to say, that's the headline, but that's
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: not the headline. The head line is Karina. I just
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: want to start with right now and then we'll explain
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: to the listeners what happened. But tell me what went
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: through your body, what went through your mind when you
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: hear guilty that. You know, we've been hoping and praying
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: for that moment ever since, you know, my daughter was murdered,
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: and it's been a long road. We never been through
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: anything like this, so we didn't know what to expect.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: And it was total jubilation when that when that happened,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: When we heard that jury form and bellow the words guilty,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: the whole audience erupted spontaneously, you know, naturally, and I
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: felt away. That was lifted off of me at that moment.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: At that moment, all the anger that was in me,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: all the hate that was in me, it it disappeared,
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: it dissipated, It was just taking away, and I just
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: felt relief and gratitude to the to the jury, and
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: gratitude to the prosecution. And it doesn't change anything, but
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: it put the murderer away. It's going to put the
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: murderer away for a very long time. Take listen to
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: our friend at w NBC News for this is Checkie Backford.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: It was definitely a different atmosphere tonight at the end
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: of this trial versus the one back in November when
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: a jury then failed to reach a unanimous verdict in
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: the case. But tonight, Karina Vitrano's family erupted in cheers
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: and applause inside that courtroom as a jury foreman read
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: that Chanel Lewis was in fact guilty on all counts.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: The Patrano family's emotional reaction after waiting for justice for
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: three years for their daughter. No visible reaction though from
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Chanel Lewis himself. The jury today confirming he was in
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: fact the man who beat and sexually abused thirty year
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: old jogger Karina Vatranto in twenty sixteen, leaving her battered
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: body in a Howard Beach park, the verdict coming just
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: five hours after the jury got the case at the
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: end of the three week trial. At one point this evening,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: they asked for readbacks of the charges and testimony from
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: two detectives in the case. Earlier, the defense tried to
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: get the case dismissed after receiving an anonymous, unsubstantiated letter
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: about racial bias involved in Lewis's arrest, but the judge
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: denied the motion, and the prosecution delivered a blistering two
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: hour summation pointing out DNA evidence and two taped confessions
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: tying Lewis to the murders. This is you know, I'm
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: just thinking back with me is Karina Vitranto's father, Phil
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: and you and Karina had this incredible relationship, as she
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: did with her mom. But when I first learned about
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Karina's disappearance and death, so many things struck a chord
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: in me. As I've told you in person, my dad
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: and I would always exercise together. We were soul mates.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: He and my mom were gone trips with us. I
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: mean that were the happiest times of my life. We
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: were all around the dinner table together with my mom
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: and my dad. Both of us laughed at the same things,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: we hated the same things, we love the same things.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: And of all the days, the one day you don't
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: go jog with her? Little did anybody know there was
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: a predator waiting, and that's where it all starts. I
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: know you remember that day and you've told me about
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: it before. But that day when she went jocking, did
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: you have any feeling, any inkling that anything was amiss
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: when you stayed behind? I don't know, maybe subconsciously at
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: that moment, because I did tell her, I said, are
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: you going to be running in there? Meaning the weeds
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: where we used to run together? And she said yeah,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: And I said, I don't think it's a good idea range,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: you know, because I called her range and she said,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: don't worry, Daddy, I'll be okay. So maybe subconsciously I
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: felt something right then and there. But moments later, moments later,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: I started to really get a bad feeling. And I
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: told you about that, and everybody knows about that, and
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: then I went out looking for her. That is amazing
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: to me. And what he is talking about, guys, is
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: within fifteen minutes after I guess it was about fifteen
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: minutes after Karina went jogging and he didn't go. I
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: believe you were down in the back. I think that's
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: what it was. Right the end, you had this feeling
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: and you started watching the lot when she was going
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: to get back and then ultimately started calling her, as
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: I recall it, Phil Yes, that is correct, I called her.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: I started getting the feeling poly around six ten, six twelve.
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: I called her at six twenty seven, six twenty eight,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: six thirty. At that point I just screamed and I
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: just went out looking for her crime stories with Nancy Grace.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: You have been in I wouldn't say law enforcement, but
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: you were with a fire department. And how did that
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: play into your thoughts? Because sometimes I think when we've
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: been on this side of the law and saying so much,
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: we look at the world a different way, phil Well,
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: I no longer look at the world in the way
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: that I once did. You know, I always trusted everybody
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: and gave everybody the benefit of the doubt. And now
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I am more suspicious, I am less. I am more
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: cautious of what can happen for no reason whatsoever. Yeah,
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: it has changed my outlook on life and outlook on people,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: of course it has. I want to ask you about
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: what you observed in the courtroom when you sit there
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: and look at this guy. I remember prosecuting cases. I
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: could hardly stand to look over at a killer in
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: the courtroom just it just it was like a bad
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: taste in my mouth. What what was going through your
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: mind when you would look in the courtroom at Channel
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Lewis discussed, discussed because I knew what he had done
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: to my baby, I know the viciousness of the attack,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: what he did to her, and I could feel nothing
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: but hatred and discussed towards him. Would he look at
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: you in the courtroom? He had to know who you are.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: He would constantly turn, constantly turn and look at my
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: wife and myself, mostly my wife. He would turn and
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: stare at her, and it got to the point where
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: we had to ask a court officer to please stop
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: him from doing that. And a court officer just sat
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: right in front of him, right on the side him,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: so we wouldn't be able to see his face as
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: he turned towards us continually during both trials. See, I
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: didn't know that. I didn't know that he would turn
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: around and look at your wife throughout the trial. What
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: do you think that was about? We have no idea,
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: We have no idea what he could have possibly been thinking.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: It wasn't a malicious look, it wasn't a sadistic look.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: But he just kept looking at us. He wouldn't turn
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: towards his family. He would look at Cathy. Now I
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: can't explain what was going through his mind. I don't know,
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: but that's what he would do. Another heartbreak, and I'm
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: going to circle back to you searching for karina Is.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: When this goes to trial, I all and there's a mistrial,
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: even with a confession and a DNA match, You don't
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: believe me. Listen to Channel Lewis in his own words. Now,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: while you're in the park, Um, did something happen? Yes?
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: What happened while you're in the parks? Girl? Jog in it? No?
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: You know one thing? Let to another clause we'll get
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: some other situation. All right, Well the girl that was jogging?
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Was she by herself or with anybody else? By herself? Um?
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: What does he look like? What was he wearing? What
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: was corn? And station of place? Won? A ye? Tank top? Maybe? Okay?
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: What kind of pants? I want to you know? Were
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: they long and short? Do you remember? I remember they
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: long pants? Are short pants? Okay? Um? And was she
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: was he jogging? Was she coming from the same direction
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: that you came from when you entered the park? When
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: going out, there's the direction it's okay. And when you
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: first saw her, where were you? Were you in the
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: grass or were you on the trail on the trail
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: all right? And were you moving or were you standing
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: still like I was moving at too music? You were
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: you were walking or jogging? Walking? Walking? And you were
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: walking towards her. He was walking towards and then let's
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: side to side and then something like to another when
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: she got next to you as you as she was
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: running and you were walking. What happened now and for
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: the past situation, I got angry and and hitting her
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: and stuff like that, okay, Um, before you did where
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: did you hit her? Like in the face and left
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: in the mouth, in the face of the mouth before
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: you hit her, did you grab her or did you
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: just hit her right away kind of grab grabbed her? Then?
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Like how did you grab it? What part of her
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: body did you did you grab? As I start you
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: in because of the incident, was right? But did you
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: did you grab her before you started hitting her? It
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: was the first thing you did, was the hit her.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: What was the first thing you did and grab it? Okay?
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: And how did you grab her okay with both hands?
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: M okay? And what part of her body did you
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: grab you remember her shoulders, her waist, her nag? Do
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: you remember probably? All right here okay, you're on the shoulders.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: Then when you grabbed her, what happened then started hitting
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: air and stuff like that? All right? Now? Um? Did
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: you hit it with both hands? Probably? Yeah? All right?
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: And what part of her body did with your hands? Any? Everybody?
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Her face? Just the face? All right? About how many
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: times did you hit her in the face? On five?
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: All right? Was she standing when you started to hit her?
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Or was he on the ground? He was on the ground? Okay?
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: So did she when did she fall to the ground
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: after you grabbed her? All right? Now, when she fell
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: to the ground, was he lying in the path or
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: was he off the path the pathway? When when she
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: when she fell to the ground and you were hitting her,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: was she on the pathway or was he off the
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: pathway on the pathway? All right? Did she say anything
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: at all? Now? Did she scream broke? I'm sorry? Her
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: tooth broke? Were you covering her mouth at all? No? Okay? Um?
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: The tooth that broke, was it like in the front
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: at the top of the bottom. Do you remember? Okay?
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: How long would you say you were hitting her for
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: about how how long a time? The whole thing was
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: about farmings? Twive minutes? All right? And did you do
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: anything else to it besides hitter? Did you put her
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: hands on any other part of her body? M around
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: her neck or anything? And the sorry, yeah, you put
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: her hands on a reck or round the neck? Okay?
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Do remember? Was it one hand on both hands? Well? Both?
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: All right? Then how long did you have your hands
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: around her neck? Okay? Did you squeeze her neck when
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: you had your hands around her neck? Yeah? Yeah, okay,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: you don't remember the how long though? Okay, hats mad
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: at incident? Before she went into the water, he had
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: stopped moving. Is that right? She's not moving before her
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: face went into the water, correct? All right? Did um?
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry? Kind of did it? Kind of did? All right?
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: What could you tell us she was breathing or not?
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: When you say be the last question? Could you tell
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: us she was breathing or the other one? Oh? Before that?
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: I said no, at some point before she went she
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: stopped moving and you said kind of right, this is
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: after after the water, Well, that's when when you when
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: she went when you put her in the water, was
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: she still moving? There, know what did she falling? She fell?
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: What was she moving there after that? She wasn't moving? Okay?
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: Did she fall in the water when you first threw
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: it to the ground or when you're on the ground
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: with her head and her did she like kind of
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: move towards the water? It was more like its trangulation.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Then she moved into the water. So say after you
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: had your hands on her neck that she went the
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: more right? Um? And what did you do then? After
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: the she is the sm I got her by ankles
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: and think back putting the bushes. Okay, Look, can you
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: just describe to me, like how you moved to at
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: what part of the body were you holding when when
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: you moved her? On the hand, following that verdict, I
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: feel like a weight has been lifted, you know. It's
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: it just you woke up with a different feeling. I
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: woke up with a different feeling. If she could be
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: here today, or you could speak to her today, what
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: would you say to her? I speak to her every day,
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: every single day. I speak to up and she speaks
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: to us in volumes. Karina's father says her voice will
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: always be heard from the sound of the birds here
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: to the writings on her blog, and they plan to
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: find a way to get her work put into a book.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: How do you even Karina would want to be remembered
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: just as she is, just as everybody sees her. She's special,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: she's smart, beautiful, and she was destined for greater things,
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: and she has achieved that. We don't know what what
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: the rest to do, most of our life is going
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: to be like, but it's a good feeling to know
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: that now we could move forward to a place of peace,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: always remembering their beloved daughter with me. Right now, Phil Vatronto,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: who I consider to be a colleague and a friend,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: Karina's father, feel sensing dread foreboding, goes out and starts
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: looking for Karina, and it is Phil that finds his daughter.
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: And you know what, I don't know how you ever
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: get that image out of your mind, or if you
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: want to get that image out of your mind, you know, Phil,
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: I just buried my dad and the last image I
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: have of him is when I leaned over into his
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: casket and I hugged him and it kissed him. That's
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: my last memory of seeing his face. And sometimes I
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: wish I hadn't seen that, but I did, and then
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: sometimes I thank god I got to kiss him. I
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: don't know how you feel about finding Karina. It was
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: of the utmost importance to her that I find that
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: I found her. It was because of her that I
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: found her. She needed her father, she needed her daddy
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: to find her. And that was the last thing that
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: I could have done for her, the last thing that
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: I did do for her, because we were so close
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: and she led me to her. I needed to find her.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: And yes it was horrible, but I needed to do
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: that for her. You know what I feel. That's not
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: the last thing that you and your wife did for her.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: The last thing you did for her was you were
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: in that courtroom every single day, and that jury saw you,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: and they were held accountable, and he Lewis was held accountable.
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: You were there every single day. And I remember seeing
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: an image of your wife coming out of court and
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: she was in one of the trials holding a crucifix
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: in her hand, and I thought she was gonna just
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: pass out. I thought she was just going to fall over,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: and her beautiful face was like a ghost. What she
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: was living through, what you were living through, having to
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: go through the whole thing again, and then get a mistrial.
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: A mistrial, How could the first jury get it wrong
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: with a confession and DNA how feel simple answer to
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: that is that we had a bad jury. You know that,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: you're a lawyer, you're a prosecutor. You know that it
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: all stems down to the jury to get twelve people
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: to agree on something. And people have different views of things,
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: and people have different agendas. And we got a bad
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: jury the first time. You know, people on the outside
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: don't get when you get a bad jury, it happens.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I remember, Phil, I don't know if I told you this,
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: but in my first bank robbery prosecution, I got a
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: guy that was convicted of a bank robber all my jury.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: How much do you think persuading I had to do
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: to get that guilty part it? I mean, you can
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: get a bad jury and not know it. Like you
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: know in the Scott Peterson case they had one jarar
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: after the next turned out being nut a bad yearar
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: and you don't know, you don't know when you put
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: him in the box. What about this? And I've been
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: dying to ask you about Channel Lewis who gives a
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: full confession. I'm going to circle back to you feel
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: on the fact that, in addition to being a friend,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: you have turned into a colleague fighting for the use
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: the admitutes of a court a familial DNA. Okay, you're
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: the one that brought that to the forefront. Well, and
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: then everybody else followed you. I need to tell you something.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, you were one of the people that have
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: been there from the very beginning. We met on doctor
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: ozon December sixth, twenty sixteen, and you were very instrumental
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: in getting that familiar DNA campaign launched, and we got
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: it done in the state of New York. Now, it's
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: ironic that you bring this up now, but right before
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: I started to speak to you, I read an email
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: from Harley Feldman. His daughter Allison was murdered in two
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: thousand and fifteen, and through the use of familiar DNA
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: in Arizona, they got her killer and that's going to
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: trial in two twenty And I would like to think
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: that both you and I were instrumental in getting that
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: familiar DNA passed in Arizona, and I'd like to continue
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: doing that in all the states. But you were very
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: instrumental in that happening. Well, you know what I'm standing
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: in your shadow, okay with me. In addition to Phil Vatronto,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: the father of Karina Vatronto, forensics expert Joe Scott, Morgan,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: prosecutor Kenya Johnson, host of the hit series on investigation Discovery,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Fatal Vows, doctor Bryan Russell, and Dave Matt Joe Scott,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: I know you'll understand that I'm speaking almost exclusive saville
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: with Phil, but if you could quickly in regular people talk, okay,
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, explain what is familial DNA, familial DNA nancy
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: or those connections that we have with the strand that
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: runs through our life, those connections that we have with
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: with family members, peripheral family members maybe aunts, uncles, and
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: of course our immediate family. And these can be tracked
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: down through DNA. Partial DNA fragments that are found at
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: scenes may be plugged into databases that have come up
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: as a result of things like twenty three and me
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: ancestry dot com, and we can at least get an
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: idea as to what family groupings individuals come from. So this, Yeah,
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: there's huge data banks like you're talking about. There's aphis,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: there's codas, there's a fingerprint, there's DNA there'sh Now there's
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: a gun data bank, and then you've got all the
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: as you said, genealogy data bank, blah blah blah blah.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: So what Phil did was lead the charge. There was
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: DNA on the scene where Karina was assaulted and beaten horribly.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: But Phil, we couldn't get a match. It didn't match
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: anybody in the system. But then bam you tell the rest. Phil, Well,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: through hard you know, detective work, relentless police work, you know,
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: they came up with a lead, a lead that was
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: merited and justified from previous summonses, from nine calls from
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: suspicious you know, burglar type behavior. A lieutenant you know,
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: remembered something that happened back in May twenty sixteen, and
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: then it was vetted and investigated through hard core, basic
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: police work, and we came up with the name of
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Channel Lewis. They came up put the name michelevel news.
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: I had no idea, you know, what was going on.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: I wasn't kept you know, a breath of that of
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: the investigation. And he was swabbed. He was given the
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: opportunity to not give a swab. He signed a consent
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: for him. He was swabbed and a few days later
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: that came back as a positive match or one in
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: seven trillion to one probability that it was him, meaning
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: one in one hundred and thirty two Earth planets that
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: it couldn't be anybody else but him. Crime Stories with
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace with me right now is who I consider
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: to be a friend. Phil Vatronto, your daughter, Carina Vatrono
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: killer has been convicted. It's it's amazing that with the DNA,
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: with a full confession, he was not convicted at the
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: first trial. But the reality is he is convicted now
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: and may he rot in jail as a brief pit
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: stop on his way to hell and there I can
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: only hope that he yeah, that he burns day in
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: day out, what the devil. That's my hope much more
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: for him. And I know, I know we're supposed to forgive.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: I get it, and maybe one day I'll reach that
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: zen moment when I can do that. But for right now,
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: and he's not helping me any because what about this,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: Phil turns out? I know you already know this. I'm
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: not breaking anything too. You know more about it than me.
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: Here he is bragging behind bars. Karina's killer is bragging
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: behind bars. Quote, I'm on front page of both the papers,
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: one of those papers being my favorite paper, the New
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: York Post. He's bragge. He thinks that's a good thing
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: that his picture is on the front of the paper. Phil,
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: I think that says it all. Yes, it does. And
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: I'm very aware of that article came out to yesterday,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: And yeah, that says volumes about the character of the
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: person that was convicted. Has been convicted in the court
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: law without any doubt on all counts. Yes, that's his character.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: And this guy has actually been calling the media during
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: the trial whining about his conditions behind bars. Yes, it's
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: more than I can take. Phil. It's always been about him. Me, me, me,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: they're mistreating me. I mean, he's in jail for you know,
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: sexual assault, murder, and he's complaining that he's being mistreated
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: in a holy facility, which is a camp compared to
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: where he's going to go. Well, let me just report
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: one of his mistreatments. And he once pleaded to the
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: Daily News after giving them a story about another inmate
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: ejaculating into a communal hot pot. Now I can't say
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: that I'm sad about it, but the reality is I
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: need a shrink. Doctor. Brian Russell, the host of id's
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: hit Fatal, vows why is it all about him? Why
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: is he happy he's on the front page of a newspaper.
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: I just wish Corinna's picture hadn't been on the newspaper
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: and a split split photo with him. Why is he bragging? Well,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: I think that's totally consistent with everything that we know
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: about this guy and what's now been proven beyond a
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: reasonable doubt in a court of law about this guy.
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: Would I mean, it's the same core personality trait that
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: resulted in this horrific crime happening in the first place.
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: And I think that you raised a very important point
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: a minute ago when you talked about forgiveness. Because I
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: like you, I understand what you're talking about. But I
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: think there's an element of remorse that has to be
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: there in order for the person to be ready and
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: and and worthy of forgiveness. And I want to give
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: people a little bit different way to think about forgiveness
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: other than the idea that it is letting somebody off
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: the hook for a wrong they've done. Because I'm with you,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: I'm not I haven't developed spiritually to the point where
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: I can do that with a guy like this either.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: But a different way to think about it. I think
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: that might be helpful for some people. Is you get
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: to a point where you say, I don't expect any
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: more from you. I don't expect any more from this person.
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: And it's not really because you're letting that person off
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: the hook. It's not really for their benefit. It's for
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: your benefit that you know you're never going to get
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: anything else from this person and you don't expect it
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: to fill the Toronto. Do you remember that moment? Of
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: course you do, when you were approaching Karina's body and
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: the crime scene. What made you go there? What instinct
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: made you go there? Drawn? I was drawn there. You know.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: There was a police officer on the trail. We found
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: out they found her phone. I walked up to him
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: and I asked him where's the phone? And he told
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: me it's in there, pointing into the weeds. He said
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: it's about fifty feet. But you can't go anywhere near,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: you can't touch you, you can't even look at You
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: have to stay here. And I said okay. So I
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: started to walk the trail and I started to walk
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: further into the trail, towards Brooklyn to a west, and
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: then something in my in my mind, something told me no,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: and I stopped, and I turned around and I started
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: to walk back east towards where my house would be.
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: And I went about twenty feet and I'm looking to
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: my left, and I'm looking to my right, and I
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: looked down to my right, and I see one weed
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: that was bent, and I kind of crouched down and
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: I look and I see it appears to be betrayal
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: that somebody could have went through hours before, and I
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: followed it in. But it was basically my daughter Karina,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: telling me, do this, follow this. I'm here. I need
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: for you to find me. And that's how it occurred.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: I can't think I have anyone that I would want
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: with me at that moment other than my husband, or
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: my dad or my mom, you know, the people that
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: are the very closest to me. And I think you're
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: right right. I think somehow she was asking you to
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: come and find her. I knew when she was being accosted.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: I knew when she was being beaten. I felt something
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: was wrong, and at first I ignored those primal feelings,
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: those instincts, but that only lasted for moments and then
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: it just overcame me and I said, no, something is wrong.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: I knew something was wrong. She was calling for she
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: was calling for Daddy, and I went out looking for
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: That is a fact. Feel how many suspects did they
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: pursue before they got the DNA match? Hundreds hundreds and
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds. You know, this was a tremendously large investigation,
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: and everyone was suspect. Every family member was suspect, every friend,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: every acquaintance, every coworker, everyone was suspect. I was suspect,
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: my son was suspected, every mail was suspect. And I
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: suspected everyone. So this was a tremendous investigation. They were
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: not focused on a particular person, a particular race, a
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: particular location. It was a citywide investigation. Phil the Toronto
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: you really personify one of my favorite versus out of Timothy,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: and it is fight the good, fight, strong to the end.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend,