Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Do BlackRock and Michael Saylor Have A Secret Bitcoin Plan? | EP 1341

Transcript

Do BlackRock and Michael Saylor Have A Secret Bitcoin Plan? | EP 1341 · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:00
  Today we're going to be diving into the origin of Blackrock's
• 0:03
  Bitcoin pivot because this week we found out that Michael Saylor
• 0:07
  had a private meeting with Larry Fink before they launched their
• 0:10
  BlackRock ETF. And we have some digging to do
• 0:13
  because today BlackRock just announced that they're
• 0:17
  launching, or rather it was leaked that they're launching a
• 0:19
  new Bitcoin fixed income product.
• 0:21
  Yes, you heard that right. BlackRock is going to try to
• 0:26
  generate yield on your Bitcoin. And on the same day this
• 0:29
  morning, we also heard that Vanguard is rumored to be
• 0:33
  listing the Bitcoin ETFs. The real question is, is all
• 0:36
  this related to Michael Saylor and Larry's secret meeting two
• 0:40
  years ago where they started the institutional wave for Bitcoin?
• 0:45
  And I know for the more skeptical Bitcoiners, this is
• 0:47
  leading many people to wonder what is their Bitcoin end game.
• 0:51
  So let's dive into this clip and we will chat about it.
• 0:56
  He used to bring in all these different people who were big
• 1:00
  believers in it, like Michael Saylor from micro strategies.
• 1:05
  I mean, Michael came to her office with his with the stock
• 1:08
  was in the teens, but he was a huge believer in it transformed
• 1:11
  his company. I mean, I could just say all
• 1:13
  these different people came in and talked and then we became,
• 1:16
  you know, we, we became a leader in working with the SEC and, and
• 1:22
  try and try to move forward in this and Fast forward out a
• 1:28
  little more than 18 months when we first started creating a
• 1:32
  Bitcoin ETF. Today it's I bid is $86 billion.
• 1:38
  Well, I don't know. I mean, that conversation didn't
• 1:42
  sound too nefarious, but when you really dig into everything,
• 1:47
  of course, if you're not a fan of Larry Fink, there's probably
• 1:50
  a lot of concerns here. Anyways, I'm not alone.
• 1:53
  I got Chris, you know, the the smarter version of me on the
• 1:55
  show today. And then we got TC, the creator
• 1:58
  of Time Chain Calendar coming on the show just dropped a new app
• 2:03
  for Time Chain Calendar. We're going to be chatting about
• 2:05
  that all in the culture. Anyways, I think on the surface
• 2:10
  this video and I'm I'm going to open this up very quickly before
• 2:12
  I dive into all of the source material that follows.
• 2:15
  This is I think a lot of us don't really have or rather we
• 2:21
  are very skeptical of Larry Fink.
• 2:23
  Obviously, BlackRock is one of the biggest corporations in the
• 2:26
  world. There's a lot of things that we
• 2:27
  don't agree with what he does as Bitcoiners.
• 2:30
  And we were all wondering when BlackRock got into Bitcoin,
• 2:35
  whether Larry and BlackRock in color actually Bitcoiners.
• 2:39
  Now you could take the just the surface level view of this and
• 2:43
  essentially say, you know, this meeting wasn't probably as
• 2:46
  nefarious as a lot of us would like to believe it is.
• 2:49
  It's just Saylor going in and orange peeling him, just showing
• 2:51
  him or rather doing what he's done with micro strategy at at
• 2:54
  large and just doing the corporate Bitcoin pitch to Larry
• 2:58
  Fink. And since he was so successful
• 3:01
  in it, that's probably where the weight came in and actually, you
• 3:05
  know, kind of changed his mind here, though it is pretty
• 3:08
  interesting that that Michael Saylor was one of the people
• 3:11
  that changed his mind. And you could argue that that's
• 3:14
  probably why they understood Bitcoin.
• 3:16
  Obviously, Saylor's been one of the best educators in the space
• 3:19
  for the last couple of years. Everyone loves the sailor, you
• 3:22
  know, metaphors and stuff like that.
• 3:24
  He's able, a literal rocket scientist able to explain
• 3:27
  Bitcoin in a way that we can do here on Simply Bitcoin.
• 3:31
  The more nefarious take of this is when you remember some of the
• 3:37
  fine print in the BlackRock ETF filing, specifically the one
• 3:41
  that kind of sticks out in my mind is when BlackRock said
• 3:46
  essentially, like if there's a fork in the code, you know, the
• 3:49
  BlackRock users, we can pick whatever, whatever fork we want,
• 3:53
  doesn't necessarily mean we pick the right code.
• 3:55
  And it, it really made everyone freak out and say, Oh my God,
• 3:58
  BlackRock wants the fork Bitcoin.
• 4:01
  You know, they want to add more than 21 million coins to the
• 4:04
  protocol. And so that's kind of I think
• 4:07
  where where the conversation really leads because you're just
• 4:12
  wondering, and maybe this is just because bit corners, we are
• 4:15
  very skeptical. We are always thinking in game
• 4:19
  theory terms. We're always thinking like, you
• 4:21
  know, we're battle hardened at this point.
• 4:23
  We're always wondering where the attack vectors are.
• 4:26
  So before I go any further, I do want to open this up.
• 4:29
  I, you know, just watching that clip on the surface, what is
• 4:33
  your initial gut level reaction to what Larry Fink said?
• 4:36
  Is there something nefarious here or is it really, you know,
• 4:40
  being blown out of proportion? So, Chris, I'm gonna go to you
• 4:43
  first. What is your view?
• 4:45
  What is your thoughts when you hear that clip?
• 4:48
  I think I'm a little worried about you.
• 4:50
  I think you're contributing to wrong think.
• 4:51
  I don't think you should ever criticize Larry Fink, the CEO of
• 4:54
  BlackRock and the chair, the interim chair of the WF guys,
• 4:59
  I'm completely kidding. You know, I don't trust Larry.
• 5:01
  Think as far as I can throw the guy, yeah, he's obviously
• 5:04
  hopping on the Bitcoin bandwagon in the last few years, but he's
• 5:07
  pumping his own bags. I mean, I bet was the was and is
• 5:11
  the most popular ETF I think of all time.
• 5:14
  I think the numbers are finally in from January of last year.
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  And so obviously, I don't think him or his counterparts or his
• 5:22
  peers thought that Bitcoin and the Bitcoin ETF was going to be
• 5:25
  as popular as it was. And now that it is, they're
• 5:27
  definitely shifting their tune. You'd be like, yo, we like
• 5:29
  money. We like collecting rent on the
• 5:32
  money that you give us. Obviously they're collecting a
• 5:34
  yield on the, the, the AP or the, what is it?
• 5:38
  The, the rate that they're charging, the interest rate
• 5:40
  they're charging for you to hold your money at BlackRock.
• 5:43
  And I do think we're at like that weird state in Bitcoin.
• 5:46
  And I'm sure TC and Opti, you guys would agree that like
• 5:49
  people in general, and this isn't just as a whole, the world
• 5:53
  have been kind of like lulled into this fake sense of security
• 5:56
  when it comes to the stock market.
• 5:57
  It all goes up, housing market all goes up, goes up Bitcoin, it
• 6:00
  all goes up. And I don't think people
• 6:02
  attribute the risks to holding like hard true Bitcoin where you
• 6:06
  self custody it yourself. Yeah, and there's always going
• 6:09
  to be people that make excuses like, well, what if I fuck up?
• 6:11
  What if I send it to the wrong address?
• 6:12
  What if I set up my cold card or whatever wallet I have wrong and
• 6:16
  then I can't recover it? Yes, those are risks, but I
• 6:18
  think they downplay the risks of, like you said, Opti of them
• 6:22
  forking the code and being like, yo, we're using this BlackRock
• 6:25
  Bitcoin version instead of the original BTC that we know and
• 6:28
  love. And also I don't think they
• 6:30
  attribute the risk to 3rd party vendors like obviously
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  BlackRock. The majority of their coins are
• 6:34
  held with Coinbase. I know that there was a filing
• 6:37
  probably last summer to try and diversify that.
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  I don't know if they were going to do their own custody or if
• 6:41
  they were going to do it offshoot it to Fidelity because
• 6:43
  they do it their own. Way, I think, I think they use
• 6:45
  fidelity and then maybe a third one as well.
• 6:49
  I thought there was 3 in the listing.
• 6:51
  But anyway, that's besides the point.
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  I do the the final point that I'll say here is I do think a
• 6:55
  lot of people are like, oh, like everything's good.
• 6:57
  You buy the, the ET, Yeah, I'm happy to pay a fee and like, you
• 7:01
  know, I'm all good, like they keep my Bitcoin safe.
• 7:04
  But I think that's the wrong way to think about it.
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  I mean, it takes, you know, you can say the wrong thing online,
• 7:09
  you could think the wrong thing. I mean, whatever political
• 7:12
  parties in power and they can basically forfeit your assets
• 7:14
  where when you hold Bitcoin yourself in self custody,
• 7:17
  there's no one that can take it from you.
• 7:18
  So yeah, I don't think that's just my 2 sets.
• 7:21
  Yeah, totally. And I I think you said something
• 7:24
  that a lot of us Bitcoiners really underestimate and it is
• 7:27
  the power of greed and in this sense the power of aligned
• 7:31
  incentives. Like I've been saying for a
• 7:33
  while that hey, as much as I am skeptical of Larry Fink and his
• 7:38
  dealings and what his personal opinions are around Bitcoin,
• 7:42
  obviously he's now the Co chair of, you know, the World Economic
• 7:45
  Forum, which is like another rabbit hole that we've touched
• 7:48
  on the show before. I think he, or rather BlackRock
• 7:52
  in general, is way more aligned with Bitcoin succeeding right
• 7:56
  now than they are in doing something as nefarious as maybe
• 7:59
  trying to hard fork Bitcoin. It's like, again, as you said,
• 8:03
  they have the best performing ETF launch out of any of the
• 8:06
  BlackRock products. It's the best performing ETF
• 8:09
  ever. And I don't think they're going
• 8:11
  to, you know, kill the golden goose, so to speak.
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  They see that there is a lot of demand here.
• 8:16
  They see that they can make some money here.
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  And so they are aligned with Bitcoiners in the sense that
• 8:22
  they want to see this product succeed.
• 8:23
  Now, whether we would, you know, tell you guys to buy the IBIT
• 8:28
  ETF is a totally different conversation.
• 8:30
  You guys know my view. I've been saying it on the show
• 8:32
  constantly. It's like just buy spot Bitcoin.
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  That's like, that's the movie you should be doing.
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  I still think they want to see the number go up like they're
• 8:40
  they're just as aligned as we are to see their product
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  succeed, which is obviously based on Bitcoin and seeing
• 8:46
  Bitcoin succeed as well. So maybe that's the less cynical
• 8:49
  take of this. Obviously you can watch this and
• 8:51
  be like, oh, the corporations are Co opting Bitcoin.
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  You know, they're colluding to have some nefarious end game on
• 8:58
  Bitcoin, though it also does kind of bring up the idea of
• 9:01
  sailor did just last week said there's going to be a $200
• 9:04
  trillion credit market on top of Bitcoin and you're like, oh man,
• 9:08
  debt products with Bitcoin like this doesn't end well.
• 9:11
  All right, guys, this this is just like recreating the system
• 9:15
  we have now on Bitcoin and it does raise a lot of questions
• 9:18
  now I don't think sailors a bad actor per SE.
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  I'm just saying that there is a lot of things that you can
• 9:24
  question. Anyways, TC, what's your
• 9:26
  thoughts on this? Are you thinking this is
• 9:29
  nefarious or is just a simple orange Pilling conversation?
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  I mean, we're watching real time, the the orange Pilling of
• 9:37
  Wall Street. They're no different.
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  They're they're going to approach Bitcoin as novices.
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  They're going to learn. They're going to have their own
• 9:47
  learning curve. These guys over the last couple
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  of years have gone deeply into the building phase that a lot of
• 9:57
  Bitcoiners find themselves in. And their form of building is
• 10:00
  the Wall Street variety. And it's it's going to have its
• 10:04
  own set of incentives they're going to follow.
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  No doubt they are going to find some alignment with Bitcoiners
• 10:13
  out there in the world. And also no doubt they'll have
• 10:16
  some incentives that are conflicting at some point with
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  what I would imagine, you know, where I stand basically.
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  And I, I just think it's going to be really interesting to
• 10:27
  watch. They're going to encounter
• 10:29
  challenges, they're going to make mistakes, They're going to
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  make decisions that, you know, we're all yet to find out what
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  the implications are. So, you know, I, I really do
• 10:40
  kind of take a very kind of like arm's distance look at these
• 10:44
  things because I usually just come back to the sort of honey
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  badger. Bitcoin doesn't really care what
• 10:52
  they're doing. There's going to be no doubt
• 10:56
  surprises down the road and there's going to be things we
• 10:58
  all have to consider as a result of these participants because
• 11:01
  they're big participants. But I, I just, I just keep
• 11:04
  coming back to the, the foundational basics.
• 11:07
  Bitcoin really doesn't care. Bitcoin is resilient, it is anti
• 11:11
  fragile, and I think it's going to withstand a lot of
• 11:14
  shenanigans from the Wall Street folks.
• 11:17
  And we get to watch it. Grab your popcorn.
• 11:19
  Yeah, 100%. I know that's been one of the
• 11:22
  kind of leading conversations on Twitter right now is, is the
• 11:26
  corporations coming to Bitcoin a good thing?
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  Is this a bad thing? And I like TC, I'm kind of been
• 11:32
  on the side of like, guys, I think this was just how it was
• 11:34
  always going to happen. This is just like par for the
• 11:36
  course. This is Bitcoin winning.
• 11:38
  Anyways, I do want to expand a little more on some source
• 11:41
  material, some interesting stuff happening in regards to
• 11:44
  BlackRock. So Eric Balkunas, senior ETF
• 11:46
  analyst at Bloomberg shared this yesterday night and he goes
• 11:51
  BlackRock registered the new iShares Bitcoin premium ETF
• 11:55
  filing coming soon. This is a covered call Bitcoin
• 11:58
  strategy in order to give Bitcoin some yield.
• 12:02
  Yeah. So you know, Wall Street's
• 12:04
  coming in, they are always looking for yield products.
• 12:07
  And now it seems like, you know, once we once this is actually
• 12:10
  goes through, we can actually break down exactly what this
• 12:14
  product is, but it looks like they are, you know, trying to
• 12:17
  attract more investors into Bitcoin and Bitcoin products.
• 12:21
  And then British huddle, I think had a great take on this.
• 12:23
  He goes, BlackRock is launching a Bitcoin income fund.
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  I assume they'll be generating Max front month yield on ibit
• 12:30
  and I predict it will be a monster product.
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  I also assume somewhere around the 3% a month yield backed by
• 12:36
  the full power of BlackRock. And he goes well done team.
• 12:39
  So again, as Bitcoin is maturing, as Wall Street starts
• 12:45
  to enter the Bitcoin realm, you're seeing that Bitcoin is
• 12:48
  being financialized in real time.
• 12:49
  Now again, as we were kind of talking about a minute ago, I'm
• 12:53
  not the biggest fan of these Wall Street products.
• 12:56
  I am a spot Bitcoin maxi. I'm a, you know, just buy
• 12:59
  Bitcoin taken into custody type person.
• 13:01
  But again, there is a need for these products.
• 13:04
  And I think this is probably where the conversation with
• 13:07
  Larry Fink and Sailor really led to is what Sailor's been doing
• 13:11
  with Strategy. All the products that strategy
• 13:14
  has created is literally designed and packaged for Wall
• 13:18
  Street to get interest. And so it looks like BlackRock
• 13:21
  is taking not only their I bit ETF kind of interest, but now
• 13:26
  they're expanding their product features for more capital to
• 13:29
  come in. And so I do agree with British
• 13:31
  Hutto here in essentially saying this will probably be a monster
• 13:35
  product. We are probably going to see a
• 13:37
  lot more interest come into Bitcoin.
• 13:39
  Obviously, this might be launched in, you know, next
• 13:41
  year, 2026. We still don't have a deadline
• 13:43
  on this, but it is kind of a a greater indicator of the themes
• 13:49
  coming down the pipeline, which is Wall Street does have an
• 13:52
  appetite for Bitcoin. And again, whether this is a
• 13:54
  good or bad thing, it's a totally different conversation.
• 13:57
  It just shows they want Bitcoin product, they want the Bitcoin
• 14:00
  games, and they're going to do whatever they can to try to get
• 14:03
  your Bitcoin. Now.
• 14:04
  My most cynical take this morning was like, yeah, bro,
• 14:07
  let's trust BlackRock to hold your Bitcoin so that you can get
• 14:10
  some yield. Sounds like a perfectly rational
• 14:13
  thought here. No, I'm trolling.
• 14:15
  I I would not do this. I do not recommend this.
• 14:17
  Now the next topic here is again, similar into the vein.
• 14:22
  Remember the saga around Vanguard when BlackRock launched
• 14:27
  their ETF that literally the Vanguard CEO basically had to
• 14:30
  step down and a lot of us Bitcoiners were saying it was
• 14:33
  because they they slow walk the launch of the Bitcoin ETF
• 14:37
  products. They were actually very vocal in
• 14:39
  saying that they're never going to touch the Bitcoin ETF
• 14:42
  products. This is for the protection of
• 14:44
  their investors, etcetera, etcetera.
• 14:46
  And then like a month later he was out and they got the new CEO
• 14:50
  is literally the guy that helped Larry Fink launch the Bitcoin
• 14:54
  ETFs through BlackRock. So now we have a new rumor.
• 14:59
  I'm I'm calling it a rumor because it's, you know, an
• 15:02
  unfounded, I'm not going to say unfounded soil.
• 15:03
  It's coming from an anonymous person close to the Vanguard
• 15:07
  team. And this is the headline that
• 15:09
  Vanguard eyes Crypto ETF, we have access for brokerage
• 15:12
  clients. The $10 trillion mutual fund
• 15:14
  giant has stayed on the sidelines of crypto until now.
• 15:17
  So we don't have a date here. It seems like the conversations
• 15:22
  are brewing. But there is some interesting
• 15:24
  stuff in this article. And this is crypto in America.
• 15:27
  There's no like, that's what I'm saying.
• 15:28
  There's no real like concrete source here.
• 15:30
  It's not coming from a well established source here.
• 15:34
  They essentially talk to someone close to Vanguard and he said
• 15:37
  something on the lines of, you know, I'm speaking on the
• 15:40
  condition of anonymity, but here we go.
• 15:42
  According to the source familiar with the company's plan, again,
• 15:45
  who spoke on the condition of anonymity, Vanguard has begin
• 15:48
  laying the groundwork and holding external discussions in
• 15:50
  response to strong client demand for digital assets and a
• 15:54
  shifting regulatory environment. The source said there are
• 15:56
  currently no plans for Vanguard to launch its own products.
• 15:59
  Instead, the firm is considering letting brokerage customers
• 16:02
  access select third party crypto ETFs, though it remains unclear
• 16:06
  when a decision will be made or which products will be offered.
• 16:09
  Quote. They're being very methodical in
• 16:11
  their approach, understanding the dynamics have been changing
• 16:14
  since 2024. And then of course, they didn't
• 16:17
  give an actual response to this. So we're hearing you rumors that
• 16:21
  the institutions are, as I've been saying for a while on the
• 16:25
  show, starting to bend the knee. You know, the infamous Bitcoin
• 16:28
  black backflips from Wall Street are happening in real time.
• 16:31
  It looks like everyone is now having to seriously consider
• 16:35
  Bitcoin, whether they want to or not.
• 16:37
  Remember, Jamie Dimon has been very infamous for saying, look,
• 16:41
  I will not, you know, endorse you holding Bitcoin, but like
• 16:45
  cigarettes, if you want to use them, we will offer you these
• 16:49
  products. And so it looks like Vanguard is
• 16:51
  also bending the knee in the similar way.
• 16:54
  And the big tell of this article, well, this anonymous
• 16:57
  source is really that there is a huge client demand for these
• 17:01
  products. And this is what we've been
• 17:03
  saying for a while. Look, whether you're a fan of
• 17:06
  Wall Street or Wall Street creating Bitcoin products or
• 17:09
  Bitcoin being financialized, the point remains the same.
• 17:12
  There is a huge appetite for Bitcoin because when you
• 17:15
  understand the macro landscape going on there, you're not
• 17:19
  getting returns like you do in Bitcoin.
• 17:21
  Even though this year I, I was actually doing some chart
• 17:24
  bowling this morning and the returns we've seen in Bitcoin
• 17:27
  year to date is like what, 20% or something like that.
• 17:30
  Even though to us that's like nothing and we are all
• 17:34
  withdrawing from dopamine and we want the price to pump to Wall
• 17:37
  Street. 20% returns is great. They're like, OK, hey, look,
• 17:41
  even if it just does what sailors been saying what 29%
• 17:44
  compounding annual growth rate. They'll take that every single
• 17:48
  day of the week. And now they have to seriously
• 17:50
  look into Bitcoin. They have to seriously consider
• 17:53
  launching these products whether they want to or not.
• 17:55
  And this is just the power of Bitcoin.
• 17:57
  This is what we mean when we say there is aligned incentives in
• 18:00
  Bitcoin. Obviously, you guys know me.
• 18:03
  I'm a number go up maxi at this point.
• 18:05
  I'm, I'm, I'm not even saying that with any shame here.
• 18:07
  I want to see the price go up. I think the price of Bitcoin is
• 18:10
  important and you're seeing that other people are looking at
• 18:13
  Bitcoin and they also want to get into the space.
• 18:16
  Now, of course, there's a lot of red tape coming from traditional
• 18:19
  financial institutions getting into Bitcoin.
• 18:23
  But now, as I've been saying, 2025 is going to be the year
• 18:26
  where we start to see the boat shift here and these, these
• 18:29
  institutions move very slowly. So hey, it's been a, it's been a
• 18:33
  slow, what, nine months, almost 10 months here in the year of
• 18:37
  20, 25. But I think we're going to start
• 18:39
  seeing the splash come in. Remember, I think only 3% of
• 18:43
  institutions have actually invested in Bitcoin or 3% of
• 18:47
  institutional hedge fund managers invested in Bitcoin.
• 18:50
  And they basically have like 99% of their capital sitting on the
• 18:53
  sidelines. So there's a tidal wave of
• 18:55
  capital preparing to come into Bitcoin and I wouldn't be using
• 19:00
  these products, but hey, I'm all for a new demand coming into
• 19:03
  Bitcoin in whatever angle it it comes from.
• 19:06
  So maybe Wall Street or sorry, retail is not doing Google
• 19:11
  searches around Bitcoin, but there is a new retail vehicle
• 19:15
  coming through just traditional trading accounts and trading
• 19:18
  brokerages coming into Bitcoin. Because you got to remember,
• 19:21
  this isn't BlackRock buying millions of coins.
• 19:23
  This isn't Vanguard themselves buying Bitcoin.
• 19:26
  It's their clients demanding Bitcoin exposure.
• 19:30
  It's their clients demanding Bitcoin products.
• 19:32
  Now, I'm not the biggest Bitcoin exposure guy.
• 19:35
  Again, I'm a spot Bitcoin. This is what you should be
• 19:37
  doing. But it just shows the appetites
• 19:40
  there and I think it's only going to increase.
• 19:42
  So that's my spiel on it. I'm going to go to TC and then
• 19:45
  we'll go to Chris. So TC, what's your thoughts on
• 19:48
  the BlackRock yield product and Vanguard bending the knee?
• 19:54
  Well, like with all things, there's a meme for that.
• 19:57
  And I think the one for this is you get Bitcoin at the price you
• 20:02
  deserve. Everyone eventually is going to
• 20:06
  get it. And Vanguard's just, you know,
• 20:09
  they're lagging a little bit behind their peers over there at
• 20:12
  BlackRock and the the rest of the Wall Street firms that
• 20:15
  jumped in with ETFs. I don't think anybody doubted
• 20:19
  this when the ETFs launched. A year and a half ago, I, I
• 20:23
  don't think anyone doubted that eventually all these firms
• 20:26
  would, you know, open their doors to their customers getting
• 20:30
  access to this stuff. It's just, you know, it, it's
• 20:32
  really a major cultural shift for these Wall Street guys.
• 20:37
  And it, it, you know, it speaks to Bitcoin still being
• 20:39
  misunderstood by so many. It speaks to, you know, the the
• 20:43
  amount of time it actually takes for people to feel comfortable
• 20:47
  and wrap their head around the the fact that something they
• 20:50
  were warned about for so many years was so risky is actually a
• 20:54
  really solid, you know, thing to actually even consider holding.
• 20:59
  So I I just think, again, we're watching this all in real time.
• 21:03
  Grab your popcorn. It's it's comical.
• 21:06
  It's a it's a little bit of a of a drama, but you not surely, I
• 21:12
  think it's all part of a lot of other, let's just say American
• 21:16
  investors own timeline where, you know, they wouldn't have
• 21:20
  even considered Bitcoin until they actually see it as an
• 21:22
  option in their brokerage account.
• 21:24
  And so consider all the people who are customers of Vanguard
• 21:27
  who just have taken the trusted nod from their broker that they
• 21:32
  should stay away from this. And you know, you can see how
• 21:35
  shortly from now a lot of those people will be getting a
• 21:37
  different message. So it it's all part of just the,
• 21:40
  the, the story, the timeline, the, the amount of time it takes
• 21:45
  for people to actually understand what's going on here
• 21:47
  and and see the value for themselves.
• 21:50
  Yeah, no, 100%. I mean, I'm always reminded of
• 21:53
  just kind of the the general idea that most people aren't as
• 21:57
  nimble as say, you know, the average bitcoiner, just like
• 22:00
  retail bitcoiners where it's hey, what?
• 22:02
  Like we're literally like, what do we have to lose at this
• 22:05
  point? It's like our money's broken.
• 22:08
  You can't save in dollars. Like we probably don't.
• 22:11
  I'm reminded of my story where so I didn't have enough money to
• 22:14
  even open a brokerage account when I first got into Bitcoin.
• 22:17
  I literally got laughed out of Charles Schwab when I tried to
• 22:19
  open in the account in like 2016, 2017.
• 22:23
  They're like, yeah bro, you're too broke you.
• 22:25
  Can't even open it. I got 50 bucks.
• 22:27
  They're like, yeah, you guys don't know.
• 22:29
  I, I went to Charles Schwab and I, I wanted to trade some stocks
• 22:33
  because that's what rich people do, right?
• 22:34
  And I had like 250 bucks at the time.
• 22:38
  This is before Robin Hood was a thing.
• 22:39
  And I'm like, all right, let's let's get to trading.
• 22:42
  And the guy was like, yeah, you need $2500 to even open an
• 22:45
  account. I'm like, oh, OK, later, guys.
• 22:47
  Like peace out. You know, at least I tried.
• 22:52
  But what you're seeing from, you know, people with capital
• 22:56
  institutions, etcetera, like they do have a lot to lose
• 22:58
  embracing Bitcoin up until what, 2024, like it was metaphorically
• 23:04
  career suicide. Like you, you, you're not out
• 23:06
  here on Twitter embracing Bitcoin with Vanguard or
• 23:10
  BlackRock or, you know, Charles Schwab behind your, your, your
• 23:14
  name saying, yeah, you should be buying some Bitcoin.
• 23:17
  But now we're starting to see they are moving slower.
• 23:19
  But it is becoming one of those things where as TC said, like if
• 23:23
  your financial advisor isn't recommending Bitcoin at this
• 23:26
  point, or at least ETFs, like what are you paying him to do?
• 23:29
  Bitcoin is very clearly winning on just the chart itself.
• 23:33
  Like, yeah, this year's been a little lackluster so far.
• 23:36
  We we're heading into Q4, which is hopefully going to be a good
• 23:40
  end of the year. But the games are undeniable if
• 23:43
  you are just looking at it from a purely Fiat gain of like, yo,
• 23:48
  the price has gone up what, like 600% in the last five years.
• 23:52
  That's unlike unmatched on Wall Street.
• 23:57
  You got to be freaking like the best trader and you got to be
• 24:00
  locked in into some good startups coming up.
• 24:03
  I think the only thing that's done really good the last year
• 24:05
  or two is like Palantir every and NVIDIA, you know, like
• 24:09
  that's the only place you get these kinds of returns is going
• 24:13
  into sectors that either historically make some money,
• 24:16
  defense contractors or into a new kind of niche, which is the
• 24:22
  AI bubble that we're seeing. So anyways, I went, I went on a,
• 24:26
  a rant there. Chris, what's your thoughts on
• 24:28
  this? First of all, are you buying the
• 24:30
  Black Rock yield products? And what's your thoughts on
• 24:32
  Vanguard finally, or rather potentially bending the knee and
• 24:36
  allowing their customers to buy Bitcoin?
• 24:39
  No, not buying the the BlackRock product, the income yield
• 24:44
  product. Wait, you don't trust Larry Fink
• 24:45
  to give you yield? Dude, come on.
• 24:47
  And I didn't say that, dude, I didn't say that.
• 24:49
  I'm not, you know, don't say anything crazy here.
• 24:51
  No, I, I actually, I want to go back to one last point that you
• 24:54
  were mentioning in the previous article we were talking about.
• 24:57
  I will say that I know that right now Larry's pumping his
• 25:00
  bags, but I will say Wall Street is very maniacal that they will
• 25:04
  make money in the ups and downs. So like even like a perfect
• 25:07
  example, like if you listen to your uncle listens to MSNBC, not
• 25:10
  that you should do that. That's bad for.
• 25:11
  Your health and bad for your mentality, but like when Jim
• 25:14
  Cramer's like buy, buy, buy this stock, he's literally him and
• 25:17
  his compadres are selling into the stock and then when he's
• 25:20
  saying to sell, a lot of times he's buying, although it's Jim
• 25:22
  Cramer. So you know the reverse Cramer
• 25:24
  is a thing. But a lot of times when you see
• 25:25
  these analysts on MSNBC or whatever, you know, basically
• 25:29
  they're kind of being paid by a large corporation order to to
• 25:32
  show their bags one way or the other.
• 25:34
  So they're telling you to buy while they're selling and
• 25:36
  dumping on retail and they're telling you to sell when they're
• 25:38
  buying up, you know, the bags of the bottom.
• 25:40
  So that that take that with a grain of salt from what you hear
• 25:43
  from mainstream media. The one thing I will say like a
• 25:45
  fool and his Bitcoin are separated when you use leverage.
• 25:49
  So all these like yield products, I know they're just
• 25:52
  small versions of leverage, but like, I mean, what were we
• 25:54
  talking about in four years ago when or like 2 1/2 three years
• 25:58
  ago when block Fi, Gemini 3 arrows capital, all these
• 26:01
  things, they were offering six or seven 7% yield and they ended
• 26:04
  up putting all these risky bets and they end up blowing up.
• 26:07
  Do I think BlackRock and all these people are are going to
• 26:09
  blow up as well? No, but you know, I think TC
• 26:12
  Opti and myself, if we're going to lend you Bitcoin, it's going
• 26:15
  to be at a much, much higher interest rate than 3%.
• 26:18
  And I understand in the in Fiat world, it's like, oh, right now
• 26:22
  T-bills are given 4 1/2 percent or there about bank accounts,
• 26:25
  like high yield saving accounts are giving 3.8.
• 26:27
  So and like Bitcoin is now offering 3%.
• 26:30
  But I do think people are going to pile into this product and
• 26:32
  that's actually going to drive yields down.
• 26:34
  But I do not think that is a useful resource of capital in
• 26:39
  the sense of like, yeah, they're giving you 2% yield.
• 26:41
  Or like they're starting at 3%. It's going to get driven down.
• 26:43
  Let's just say it goes down to two for easy numbers sake.
• 26:45
  But like inflation's running at 7% and there's going to
• 26:48
  obviously be stipulations like it's, hey, it's supposed to
• 26:51
  track Bitcoin, but you don't know what they're doing on the
• 26:53
  back end. They're lending it out or that
• 26:55
  you know what they're doing. You hope they're fully
• 26:57
  collateralizing it and then basically just scraping yield
• 27:00
  off of. But you know, that yield needs
• 27:02
  to come from somewhere. So I'm assuming they're going to
• 27:04
  be taking this Bitcoin putting into treasury bonds or treasury
• 27:07
  bills and then paying you the gap of the difference.
• 27:09
  So like I said, you know, they take in, they pay you 3% while
• 27:11
  they're putting in in U.S. Treasury bills at 4%.
• 27:14
  But obviously you run into the mix, mix match or the issue
• 27:17
  where they're saying it's a Bitcoin yield fund, but you
• 27:19
  know, do they have the Bitcoin or not?
• 27:21
  And that becomes the issue with bitcoins price begins to run.
• 27:23
  People are thinking, oh, well, bitcoins running.
• 27:26
  So now I have this, but it's, it's like it's a Fiat game.
• 27:29
  And that's all I'm saying. If I were to yield out my
• 27:31
  Bitcoin, it would be 20% plus. And not saying I will do that,
• 27:34
  but that's the kind of level of risk that I would want to at
• 27:38
  least a bare minimum 20%. And then I get it.
• 27:40
  All the the Wall Street guys are like, Chris, you asking for 20%
• 27:43
  is that is asinine insane. We would never do that.
• 27:46
  It's like, yeah, well, you're not getting my freaking Bitcoin
• 27:48
  then. So like that's the way that I
• 27:49
  look of it. And even if you were to do any
• 27:51
  yield products, and this is, this is a warning to everyone,
• 27:53
  not financial advice, but financial advice, but not
• 27:55
  financial advice. If you are going to yield, if
• 27:57
  you're going to do something in this yield farming space, like
• 28:00
  it should be a small, small, small, small fraction of your
• 28:03
  Bitcoin that if it disappears, you are not wrecked.
• 28:06
  It doesn't wreck your family, your your, your heirs, your
• 28:09
  loved ones. Like it should be a small,
• 28:11
  small, minuscule part of your portfolio Bitcoin.
• 28:13
  Not saying I advocate doing that, but if you're going to do
• 28:15
  it, don't go like, you know, 100% of your stack, you know, at
• 28:18
  20X leverage or whatever it is. So that's just my 2 stats.
• 28:22
  Like I said, not financial advice, but. 32 sets is
• 28:26
  generational wealth. It shouldn't even be 32 sets.
• 28:28
  You know what are we talking about here?
• 28:30
  But Chris, you reminded me of something that I saw this
• 28:34
  morning. Guys, I know the price is
• 28:36
  dumping on us today, but I think we got a Hail Mary here and we
• 28:40
  are actually going to be saved. So here's Jim Cramer this
• 28:43
  morning. American Bitcoin investors could
• 28:45
  potentially lose everything, says Jim Cramer.
• 28:48
  So guys, bull run saved. I don't know if he's saying.
• 28:52
  October's back, baby a few days away back.
• 28:55
  October's back. Yeah, inverse Kramer in effect
• 28:59
  the the headline. I don't know if he means like
• 29:01
  the American Bitcoin company, you know, which is the Trump
• 29:05
  family Bitcoin mining company, or if he's meeting American
• 29:08
  Bitcoin investors like all of us here.
• 29:09
  But hey, you know, I'll take, I'll take the more bullish one.
• 29:12
  If he's saying we're all going to lose everything, then guys,
• 29:16
  bull run has not been cancelled. Thank you Jim Cramer, Jim
• 29:20
  Cramer, if you can hear me, I am super happy that you are bearish
• 29:23
  on Bitcoin. So anyways, before I keep going,
• 29:27
  guys, I do want to remind you guys to smash the like button.
• 29:30
  Of course, comment and hit the subscribe button.
• 29:32
  We are dropping the best content possible.
• 29:36
  Let's wow, Nico's distracting me over here.
• 29:39
  He's he's being a bum over here, not working and doing other
• 29:43
  things. You get so frustrated.
• 29:47
  So yeah, yeah, just smash the like button, comment on the show
• 29:51
  and of course, hit the subscribe button.
• 29:52
  We're dropping the best content. Also, our boys over at Bitcoin
• 29:56
  Well are creating the best Bitcoin exchange possible and
• 30:04
  they do it right. They make sure that you never
• 30:07
  lose some Bitcoin because they never hold your Bitcoin.
• 30:10
  They've never rug pulled Bitcoin and they will never lose Bitcoin
• 30:14
  because again, once you send them your Fiat, it goes straight
• 30:18
  into your cold swords. It's the best way to get your
• 30:20
  Bitcoin and of course, go to which one is it?
• 30:24
  Oh, I'm on the I'm on the old one.
• 30:26
  If you want to get your Fiat into oh, they changed.
• 30:30
  They changed this side on me anyways, get in touch with the
• 30:33
  Bitcoin infinite well team and you can buy smash by $50,000 or
• 30:37
  more of Bitcoin at a time with that being said, let's get into
• 30:40
  the rest of the show. We got some good stuff for you
• 30:42
  so 1 Jack Mullers is making the case for the dollar being backed
• 30:47
  by Bitcoin. We have some news coming out of
• 30:49
  Google. It seems like they are
• 30:51
  partnering with a Bitcoin mining company.
• 30:53
  And then of course, we are going to chat about Time Chain
• 30:56
  Calendar. If you want to get all of the
• 31:00
  Bitcoin stats on your phone, make sure you check out Time
• 31:03
  Chain Calendar. We'll be back in one minute.
• 31:13
  I want to give a shout out to our partner Stamp Seat.
• 31:15
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  Your words are actually stamped into the titanium plate with
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  this hammer and these letter stamping tools.
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  They're also crush proof, waterproof, non corrosive, and
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  time proof. And now you can customize your
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  titanium seed plates. You can upload your design or
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• 32:09
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• 32:11
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• 32:16
  15% off anything on the Stamp se-ed.com store.
• 32:26
  All right, guys, I'm going to change it up a little bit in
• 32:28
  honor of TC here today. So I am not on Clark Moody's,
• 32:34
  you know, I don't even know what we call it dashboard, the Clark
• 32:37
  Moody dashboard. We are going to use time chain
• 32:39
  calendar.com and you can use you get, you know some good visuals
• 32:44
  and ITC the block just came in. So I don't think we're going to
• 32:47
  get a block live in the segment. It literally.
• 32:49
  Just a block can happen anytime you.
• 32:51
  Never know, I agree. I agree.
• 32:54
  Anyways, look I how do I, I how do I read?
• 32:57
  OK, here we go. The current Bitcoin price is
• 32:59
  109,586 Guys buy the dip. It is buying the dip season.
• 33:06
  It is dumping on us. So you get cheap sets, you get
• 33:08
  Bitcoin on discount. The current market cap is 2.18
• 33:11
  trillion. Let's see what are some other
• 33:13
  numbers that I usually say here actually, we'll just keep it
• 33:16
  moving. The hash rate is at 1 Zeta hash
• 33:19
  officially above 1 Zeta hash guys, it's it's getting crazy
• 33:23
  out here anyway. What, what else do we got in
• 33:26
  here? Total supply 19.92 million
• 33:32
  Bitcoin, which is 94.88% of the total Bitcoin supply.
• 33:37
  And I, I was telling TC before this show, the only thing that's
• 33:39
  here that I usually say is the decline from all time high.
• 33:42
  But you, you, I don't think we need to feel that type of pain
• 33:45
  today. So let's keep it moving.
• 33:47
  Jack Mullers was just on Natalie Burnell and he's making the case
• 33:51
  for how will the dollar and Bitcoin survive together.
• 33:54
  I know a very spicy take here cause a lot of Bitcoiners
• 33:58
  believe Bitcoin will take over the world reserve currency
• 34:01
  status. I also believe that eventually.
• 34:05
  But Jack Mallards makes a perfect case for how this is
• 34:08
  probably going to have in the short term.
• 34:09
  So let's listen to this. There's a little over $900
• 34:12
  trillion worth of stuff us humans own today.
• 34:16
  That's money, sovereign debt, equities, real estate, precious
• 34:20
  metals, collectibles, art, Bitcoin, etcetera, etcetera.
• 34:24
  About half of that, Natalie, we've monetized we use as a
• 34:27
  savings account. So I would say the dollar will
• 34:31
  increasingly not be used for that.
• 34:34
  I don't think sovereign debt will either.
• 34:37
  I think we'll continue to see a rotation into money that carries
• 34:41
  the properties that the market demands, which is fixed supply,
• 34:46
  some scarcity element, divisibility, transportability,
• 34:49
  inability to sovereignly hold it on your own.
• 34:51
  I think Bitcoin is going to be the best competitor to go after
• 34:54
  that market. Can the dollar remain the world
• 34:58
  reserve currency? Sure, right.
• 35:01
  Like listen, if if the United States buys enough gold in
• 35:04
  Bitcoin, can trump one day come out and say we've devalued the
• 35:08
  debt enough, we own enough Bitcoin.
• 35:10
  All your dollars are backed by Bitcoin.
• 35:12
  Consider. Problem solved.
• 35:13
  Yeah, of course. If they come out, devalue the
• 35:16
  debt enough and build a Bitcoin position, that's $50 trillion
• 35:19
  over the next 10 years. Problem solved.
• 35:21
  All your dollars are backed by Bitcoin.
• 35:22
  So that keeps the dollars the world reserve currency because
• 35:26
  your hot dog on the corner is priced in dollars.
• 35:28
  But the reality is the capital that the value that humans are
• 35:32
  creating, saving and then later exchanging is actually persisted
• 35:36
  in an instrument that isn't the dollar.
• 35:38
  There's just that's, that's the world I think we're very rapidly
• 35:41
  heading towards. I couldn't agree more.
• 35:44
  I know a lot of Bitcoiners might take that view as being like
• 35:49
  blasphemy here. It's like, no, Bitcoin's going
• 35:51
  to become the world reserve currency, bro.
• 35:52
  It's coded in. This is the world we're going
• 35:55
  to. I do agree on a long enough time
• 35:59
  frame, like someone in the chat says, yeah, in like 50 years,
• 36:02
  that's when we get there. So when we are actually boomers,
• 36:05
  when we're, you know, 80 plus is when we'll probably see that.
• 36:08
  But what Jack is saying is really this idea that I've been
• 36:12
  kind of talking about on the show is a bimetal period that we
• 36:16
  are kind of heading into a rather, we're literally in it.
• 36:19
  And so in the past, if you don't understand what bimetalism
• 36:22
  means, you know, in the past, you use silver to transact and
• 36:25
  gold to save in. And then we got into the Fiat
• 36:28
  system and then you would probably save in gold and use
• 36:31
  dollars to transact. And now we're just updating this
• 36:34
  to maybe in the short term, we use dollars to pay for our hot
• 36:38
  dogs and our coffee, but everyone starts to realize that
• 36:42
  you want to save in Bitcoin. And then eventually we'll get to
• 36:44
  a point where Bitcoin is that peer-to-peer money.
• 36:46
  And I don't think that that really negates the Bitcoin
• 36:49
  thesis at all. I think again, it kind of goes
• 36:52
  into this is a stepwise function.
• 36:54
  This is how it's going to happen.
• 36:56
  I know a lot of us want to see like a catastrophic change or a
• 37:00
  huge exponential change here. And I think we are living it.
• 37:03
  But as TC keeps saying, as I keep saying on the show, we're
• 37:06
  we're living through essentially like a, you know, slowed down
• 37:11
  train wreck where we know where this is heading.
• 37:14
  But in the day-to-day, the moments by moments, the minutes
• 37:17
  by minutes, things seem to move very slowly.
• 37:21
  And I think we are in this scenario right now where dollars
• 37:25
  will continue to be the world reserve currency.
• 37:27
  But as we're seeing moves from different nation states about
• 37:31
  adding or rather backing their Fiat currencies with Bitcoin,
• 37:34
  it's becoming a a fact in the moment that there's Bitcoin to
• 37:39
  save in and then there's a dollar.
• 37:41
  And I think you know, like even stable coins like Tether are a
• 37:43
  huge example of that. People do want a dollar type
• 37:48
  mechanism backed by the dollar. It's it's no secret that tethers
• 37:53
  literally I think at this point, like the one of the world's
• 37:56
  richest companies by customer employees here, like there is a
• 38:00
  real need for something back with Bitcoin, something that
• 38:04
  stores your value. And I don't think that that
• 38:05
  negates the the theory that Bitcoin is the world reserve
• 38:09
  currency. This is the bimetalism period of
• 38:12
  Bitcoin. And I think this is something
• 38:14
  we're going to be living towards or rather living through for the
• 38:17
  next 1020 years until everyone finally wakes up to Bitcoin
• 38:20
  being the best money. Until then, it's going to be a
• 38:24
  slow process of people understanding that Bitcoin is
• 38:26
  the best thing to be transacting with.
• 38:28
  So I fully endorse what Jack Mueller is saying.
• 38:30
  I, I think this is exactly what's playing out.
• 38:32
  And maybe it's not playing out exactly as a lot of Bitcoiners
• 38:36
  in the early days wanted it to. But this is, this is the reality
• 38:40
  of what's happening right now. So I don't think this is
• 38:43
  necessarily a bad thing. I just think this is, this is
• 38:45
  what is, and I'm a, what is maxi?
• 38:48
  I'm a reality maxi here. And this is what I'm seeing as
• 38:51
  well. We're seeing this moment in time
• 38:55
  where people are going to continue to transact into the
• 38:57
  local currencies, but you save in Bitcoin and eventually these
• 39:01
  things will be kind of melted together, as we're seeing from
• 39:05
  the Trump administration. And I don't think that that
• 39:07
  means Bitcoin is not what we say it is.
• 39:10
  I just think this is where we are.
• 39:12
  So anyways, let's go. I'm gonna go with Chris here
• 39:15
  because Chris always gives a higher IQ take than mine, maybe
• 39:18
  by like 2 IQ points. But what's your thoughts on this
• 39:21
  clip? 87 IQ take here is we're.
• 39:24
  It's better than. 42 we're going through, but like there's these
• 39:27
  two common economic laws or principles called Gresham's Law
• 39:31
  and Dears law. So Gresham's Law is bad money
• 39:33
  drives out good money. That's the common one, meaning
• 39:36
  that like basically like the US dollar drove out, like we got
• 39:40
  off the gold standard and basically people are transacting
• 39:42
  in dollars instead of gold. Even the gold was the superior
• 39:45
  money. So we're kind of experiencing
• 39:47
  that now. So like a lot of people save in
• 39:49
  Bitcoin or gold or hard assets at real estate, whatever it may
• 39:52
  be. So they're saving in hard assets
• 39:54
  and they're spending the bad money fears raw is the opposite.
• 39:57
  So good money drives out bad. That's the reverse that when
• 40:00
  basically vendors or people that are selling goods no longer want
• 40:04
  the bad money. So they won't accept dollars or
• 40:07
  any Fiat currency. They only want Bitcoin or gold
• 40:10
  or real estate. You know, I don't know how you
• 40:12
  fractionalize real estate, but I'm sure people are going to try
• 40:14
  and figure out that. But basically that's the reverse
• 40:16
  and. A lot.
• 40:17
  Of Time Shares bro Time. Shares time shares, that's the
• 40:19
  way to do it no, but basically we're going through that and I
• 40:22
  think a lot of bitcoiners get to the fears law of it all way like
• 40:26
  way sooner than anyone else or the normies friends.
• 40:29
  So like a lot of times, you know, I know, Oh my God,
• 40:33
  Zaprite, like there's a way that you can pay with Fiat, but they
• 40:36
  charge a premium or like, hey, it's like if you want to buy
• 40:38
  this book, it's, you know, I don't know, 21,000 sacks, but if
• 40:42
  you want to pay with dollars, it's 21,000 sacks plus a 5%, you
• 40:46
  know, increase in price in Fiat terms.
• 40:48
  So basically a lot of bitcoiners or people that sell goods and
• 40:51
  services understand that bitcoin's the good money and
• 40:54
  don't look at it like selling it for a discount for Bitcoin.
• 40:57
  Look at it as it increasing or putting a premium on the Fiat
• 41:00
  that you receive. I don't know, that's just my 2
• 41:01
  stats. Yeah, no, I'd agree with that.
• 41:05
  Anyways, TC, what's your thoughts on this?
• 41:07
  I mean, this is a topic that's sort of got a generational time
• 41:12
  frame to it. I think that basically when
• 41:15
  you're kind of early in your Bitcoin journey, it's it's also
• 41:20
  revolutionary these perspectives and you, you tend to think that
• 41:24
  it's just right on the brink of, you know, the whole world
• 41:26
  flipping upside down. But reality is, is that this is
• 41:30
  like a slow boiling frog situation.
• 41:33
  I think the older generation's just going to keep getting
• 41:36
  boiled. And it's the younger generation
• 41:39
  that maybe is starting to really see this clearly today.
• 41:42
  And and you know, they've they've got to grow up.
• 41:45
  I think we're talking about decades before we see real
• 41:49
  shifts as far as you know, what is used as reserve currency
• 41:53
  globally. That being said, the other hand,
• 41:57
  you have all kinds of forces emerging in the world, like all
• 42:01
  the capital controls that all these different countries and
• 42:05
  jurisdictions are implementing. You look over there at Europe,
• 42:09
  they're just trying to roll out digital ID and CBD CS.
• 42:12
  I mean, I, I think on a daily basis, there's more and more
• 42:16
  things helping spotlight the problem that Bitcoin is a
• 42:19
  solution to that, in addition to obviously the inflation and
• 42:24
  debasement of everyone's currency everywhere.
• 42:27
  So, you know, basically, I think you, you just have a, a slow
• 42:31
  rollover where people open their eyes and they realize what's
• 42:36
  going on. It's going to take a, a, a full
• 42:38
  generation, I think, before you see these nation states figure
• 42:43
  out, you know, really what's in their best interest.
• 42:45
  I think you got a lot of old people running these countries
• 42:48
  still that are stuck in their old ways and they're kind of
• 42:51
  looking at at it like Vanguard has, and they're yet to really
• 42:55
  fully come around to realizing the solution that Bitcoin
• 43:00
  offers. Yeah, now 100%.
• 43:02
  It actually reminds me of a conversation I had with one of
• 43:05
  my buddies. He's a bitcoiner.
• 43:07
  Well, you know, I met him through Bitcoin and he's one of
• 43:09
  my buddies. He's not like my old friends.
• 43:11
  That's a bitcoiner. And he was asking me the
• 43:14
  question. He's like, what do you think is
• 43:17
  the time frame till we get like central banks?
• 43:20
  Like, well, he said a, a significant central bank
• 43:22
  actually buying Bitcoin. And I'm like, dude, you know,
• 43:26
  short term, maybe five years, long term, like 10 to 15.
• 43:29
  I think they're going to kind of latch on to the money printer
• 43:33
  for as long as possible until there's literally, you know, no
• 43:37
  hope left for them to continue to control the money that will
• 43:40
  see them actually capitulate on Bitcoin.
• 43:43
  And he was like, really, dude, you think 5 to 10 years, like
• 43:46
  minimum. And I'm like, yeah, dude, I, I
• 43:49
  think that what we're seeing is a lot of the people that are in
• 43:54
  power begrudgingly kind of sort of accepting Bitcoin, but we're
• 43:58
  not going to see a full blown capitulation from Fiat
• 44:01
  currencies for a long time to come.
• 44:03
  And again, I just, I don't think that that means that the Bitcoin
• 44:06
  thesis is wrong or that Bitcoin won't become the world reserve
• 44:09
  currency. It's just as TC was saying, when
• 44:12
  you first come into Bitcoin, you got this, this view like, Oh my
• 44:15
  goodness, it is over for Fiat. And I know a lot of our friends
• 44:19
  are kind of Fiat doomers on Twitter and they're always like,
• 44:21
  the dollar's going into a dead spiral tomorrow, bro.
• 44:24
  Like, make sure you prepare. And I think there's a lot of
• 44:27
  tools left in the tool bag to keep this Fiat Ponzi going for a
• 44:31
  long time. And it really also goes into the
• 44:36
  institutions can keep going in the same route they've been
• 44:40
  going as long as people believe in it.
• 44:43
  And I don't know about you, but if you look at it kind of
• 44:45
  normally conversations or mainstream conversations either
• 44:49
  revolving around economics or revolving around the economy, I
• 44:54
  think there's still a huge leap for them to fully become
• 44:57
  Bitcoiners. There's still a lot of trust in
• 44:59
  the institutions. And unless something devastating
• 45:02
  happens, unless something huge and catastrophic happened, we
• 45:06
  are not going to see a, you know, zero to 1 moment of people
• 45:10
  adopting Bitcoin. It's going to be a slow trickle.
• 45:12
  And that might take a lot longer than we think it will, but that
• 45:16
  just means we have a longer to stack Bitcoin, to acquire
• 45:20
  Bitcoin to make sure that we are in a safe position if something
• 45:24
  ever does blow up. So it's some good with the bad.
• 45:27
  I, I think, as I've been saying on the show for a while, I think
• 45:31
  a lot of us bitcoiners really need to kind of lock in for the
• 45:34
  long run. You need to kind of get in your
• 45:37
  mind. I was literally telling Nico
• 45:38
  this the other day. I'm like, bro, we just got to
• 45:40
  get into the mind frame of we're going to be doing this for the
• 45:43
  rest of our lives and accept that.
• 45:46
  And, you know, go through the pain and the perseverance and
• 45:48
  the battles and all of the hardship that, that, that comes
• 45:51
  with fighting for something, for a, a peaceful revolution for the
• 45:55
  rest of your life. Like we're in this for the long
• 45:58
  run. And if you think it's almost
• 46:00
  going back to the Bitcoin price, like if you think the Bitcoin
• 46:02
  price is going to go, you know, to 100 million like I do
• 46:05
  overnight, then maybe your thesis is a little off and you
• 46:09
  probably should temper your expectations so that you are
• 46:12
  prepared to do this for a lot longer than you probably
• 46:16
  imagined, so. I mean.
• 46:18
  That's that's my option. For overnight, it's just going
• 46:20
  to be in 50 years from now, but it does.
• 46:21
  That yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is going to happen at one
• 46:25
  point. It just might take 50 years from
• 46:28
  now. Yeah, check your time
• 46:32
  preference. It's very simple, guys, all
• 46:35
  right, boys and girls. Mainly boys, but some girls.
• 46:37
  Let's dive into and really kind of see what is going on with
• 46:43
  Google buying a Bitcoin mining company.
• 46:46
  Yeah, it's not fake news. It is very interesting.
• 46:49
  So let's play the transition and we'll be right back.
• 46:53
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  15% off anything on the store. All right guys, we are back.
• 48:47
  Google made another interesting move this week that I I think is
• 48:53
  kind of indicator of what's to come.
• 48:56
  They previously got had a stake in Terra Wolf that was I think
• 49:00
  kind of going unnoticed. I know Google, maybe you could
• 49:06
  argue is not the biggest fan of Bitcoin yet, but they are making
• 49:10
  moves into Bitcoin, which is I think the the kind of whole
• 49:14
  thesis of today's show is that, yeah, maybe a lot of these
• 49:18
  companies aren't fully embracing Bitcoin directly, but they are
• 49:23
  starting to get Bitcoin exposure via different ways, whether
• 49:26
  that's the Bitcoin treasury stocks, whether that's buying
• 49:29
  stocks in Bitcoin mining companies or, you know, maybe
• 49:33
  buying Metaplanet, something like that.
• 49:35
  They're just, they're like, OK, hey, well, maybe we'll get some
• 49:38
  ETFs, maybe we'll buy some stocks in the treasury plays.
• 49:42
  Maybe we'll get a stake in a Bitcoin mining company.
• 49:44
  But I think this move is a little interesting in the sense
• 49:49
  that it's not directly just buying shares in a mining
• 49:53
  company. It is the avenue that they're
• 49:56
  doing this with. So Google buys in as this
• 50:00
  Bitcoin miner lands 3 or $3 billion HPC deal Bitcoin miner
• 50:04
  and data center operator Cipher Mining announced A10 year high
• 50:07
  performance computing Co location agreement with fluid
• 50:10
  stack and Google will support the build out in exchange for a
• 50:13
  stake in Cipher. CIFR stock fell as Bitcoin
• 50:17
  retreated. So hey, the market wasn't wasn't
• 50:20
  that bullish on this move. But yesterday Cipher mining
• 50:24
  announced it agreed to deliver 168 megawatts of IT and data
• 50:28
  computing capacity to fluid stock at its Barber Lake site.
• 50:31
  Fluid Stock is an AI cloud platform that builds and
• 50:34
  operates HPC clusters for major companies.
• 50:37
  The contract guarantees $3 billion in revenue over the
• 50:39
  initial 10 year term. The deal includes the option for
• 50:42
  two five year extensions that could bring total contracted
• 50:45
  revenue to over 7 billion. And then it kind of just goes on
• 50:48
  whatever. Google plans to backstop the
• 50:51
  $1.4 billion of Fluid Stacks lease obligation to support
• 50:54
  project related debt financing. In exchange, Google will receive
• 50:58
  warrants to acquire 24,000,000 shares of Cipher Mining common
• 51:01
  stock, which equates to about 5.4% pro forma equity ownership
• 51:06
  state. And then again, they did agree
• 51:10
  to a similar deal with Terrible. And so anyways, why do I think
• 51:15
  this is such a big move? Well, we've seen our boys over
• 51:18
  at Hive do something very similar where you're starting to
• 51:22
  see that Bitcoin mining companies are starting to have a
• 51:28
  symbiotic relationship with AI data centers.
• 51:32
  And now we're seeing obviously Google huge backers of AI and
• 51:36
  everyone thinks the AI cycle is like the biggest, you know,
• 51:39
  thing in the room right now. But I think what a lot of people
• 51:42
  are missing is this idea that AI data centers and Bitcoin miners
• 51:47
  are essentially going to become one.
• 51:50
  And that if you have a Bitcoin mining, you know, infrastructure
• 51:55
  or company, then linking it with AI is going to be a good move.
• 52:00
  And if you're an AI data center, then you might be looking into
• 52:03
  Bitcoin miners. Now, our friends over at Hive
• 52:06
  have been leading this for a while.
• 52:09
  They have been doing this. And now it's starting to seem
• 52:12
  like the the industry or AI data centers are starting to catch
• 52:16
  on. And it really just goes to show
• 52:18
  that if you are a bitcoiner, I know there's a lot of
• 52:22
  conversations around AI kind of taking over, taking over all our
• 52:26
  jobs and stuff. And AI is going to change the
• 52:28
  world fundamentally. And AI is the big technological
• 52:32
  driver of this new era. I love seeing AI and Bitcoin
• 52:37
  become one because I'm not the biggest fan of AII.
• 52:40
  Kind of just look at it as like a glorified search engine.
• 52:44
  But you're starting to see that as energy demand goes up for
• 52:48
  these AI data centers that they do need to find ways to offset,
• 52:53
  you know, their downtime. And if you plug in Bitcoin
• 52:55
  miners, it's like this is just going to show that that one Zeta
• 52:59
  hash of Bitcoin hash rate is going to continue to go up.
• 53:03
  Because I fully believe that Bitcoin miners are going to
• 53:07
  become the new energy producers in the future.
• 53:09
  Or rather energy producers are going to have to get into
• 53:12
  Bitcoin mining. And I think what Google is
• 53:15
  doing, as much as I'm not the biggest fan of Google, you know,
• 53:20
  I, I'm just like, I, I use Gmail for work just 'cause I have to.
• 53:24
  But hey, love them. I still love them.
• 53:27
  But you're starting to see that the industry leaders are taking
• 53:31
  interest into Bitcoin in various forms.
• 53:33
  So they might not all be directly investing in Bitcoin,
• 53:38
  you know, spot Bitcoin, but they're all trying to position
• 53:41
  themselves around Chris says I got to stop the photo, dude.
• 53:46
  I only do it for work. OK, It's it's just the work
• 53:48
  e-mail. All right, OK, Everyone is
• 53:52
  starting to position themselves around Bitcoin in various
• 53:55
  different ways. And I think that's just going to
• 53:57
  show, or rather is showing that Bitcoin is fundamentally
• 54:01
  shifting the culture and you have to embrace Bitcoin at at,
• 54:04
  you know, in some way. Obviously, we would love to see
• 54:07
  more people holding Bitcoin directly, spot Bitcoin,
• 54:09
  transacting Bitcoin peer-to-peer.
• 54:11
  But it does take a lot of big money money to come in, in the
• 54:14
  infrastructure of Bitcoin to continue to press Bitcoin in the
• 54:19
  eyes of normies and in the eyes of the institutional leaders.
• 54:22
  And hey, Google's been on the vanguard of this, at least in
• 54:26
  terms of the big companies doing this.
• 54:30
  And hey, I'm bullish for it. Bitcoin and energy Bitcoin and
• 54:34
  AII think it's a, it's a match made in heaven.
• 54:37
  And we're starting to see it's happening in real time.
• 54:39
  So bullish for the hash rate. I'm, I'm going to say bullish on
• 54:43
  the hash rate here, but let's go to TC.
• 54:45
  What's your thoughts on this man?
• 54:47
  I mean, absolutely anyone who needs to consume a large amount
• 54:50
  of energy, let alone people who are building giant facilities to
• 54:54
  run compute in the cloud, I mean, you, you're going to see
• 54:58
  an opportunity and a benefit for integrating Bitcoin, mining it.
• 55:03
  It's going to be a story we're going to see over and over
• 55:06
  again. I think AI is just the sort of
• 55:09
  use case of the moment. And years from now, there will
• 55:12
  be other use cases where there's the need to capitalize on more
• 55:17
  energy on the grid and do big build outs for these kinds of
• 55:21
  things. I think Bitcoin mining just has
• 55:24
  a phenomenal role to play in just the continued expansion of
• 55:28
  civilization in the 21st century.
• 55:31
  So AI, absolutely, they're going to be gobbling up so much energy
• 55:36
  with all of this demand for more and more compute.
• 55:40
  And you're going to need Bitcoin mining to do these build outs to
• 55:44
  get these grids stabilized, all the load balancing functions
• 55:48
  that it can do. So it's incredibly bullish and
• 55:50
  it's a no brainer kind of synergy there between those two
• 55:55
  different activities. So it doesn't surprise me.
• 55:57
  And you know, you said something too Opti, that I believe it, it
• 56:00
  really sticks with me is that Bitcoin miners are really going
• 56:05
  to evolve into being energy producers and managers and vice
• 56:09
  versa. I think people who produce
• 56:11
  energy are all going to find the same benefit of Bitcoin mining.
• 56:15
  So we'll see all the major, you know, oil producers and refiners
• 56:20
  and all these grid operators figure this out over the next
• 56:24
  several years and decades. I think this is the very
• 56:27
  beginning of this next phase of bitcoins mining story.
• 56:32
  Yeah, 100%. I I couldn't agree more with
• 56:34
  that. Chris, what's your thoughts on
• 56:36
  this bro? I think energy and Bitcoin
• 56:39
  mining are obviously, you know, they go hand in hand because
• 56:42
  obviously the only input that you can affect is basically the
• 56:45
  price of energy that you have for Bitcoin mining outside of
• 56:48
  negotiating the price of the machines themselves.
• 56:51
  So with that being said, Bitcoin miners are basically always
• 56:54
  trying to use waste energy. And what I mean by that is, you
• 56:57
  know, when the energy grid, when they're producing energy, it's
• 56:59
  actually like a sine wave. I know people you know never
• 57:02
  thought they were going to use sine and cosine ever again after
• 57:04
  leaving high. School.
• 57:05
  But basically what you're trying to do, trying to take, there's a
• 57:10
  base load of energy like, you know, we're in this house right
• 57:12
  now, we have lights on, you know, we're using these
• 57:14
  computers, these webcams and stuff like that.
• 57:16
  And that's a base load that everyone in in a city or town or
• 57:19
  whatever is using. But when you design a power
• 57:22
  plant, you're looking for two things.
• 57:24
  You're looking for peak loads and or you're looking for base
• 57:28
  loads or highest base load during the day, average highest
• 57:31
  base load. And they're also looking for
• 57:32
  peak loads. So highest base load is like
• 57:34
  when everyone gets home from work, they all turn on their
• 57:36
  lights, they all turn on the AC, they all do these different
• 57:39
  things. And basically the load goes up.
• 57:41
  And obviously in the mornings too, people are waking up,
• 57:42
  they're turning on their lights, they're, you know, turning on
• 57:45
  the heat, whatever it may be. So normally there's peaks in the
• 57:47
  mornings and right when people get home and then that's kind of
• 57:50
  the base load. But obviously on on colder days,
• 57:53
  you need it to be hotter and use more energy or on hotter days
• 57:56
  you need to be cooler with AC and stuff like that.
• 57:58
  Well, the point being is there's many times when the energy is
• 58:01
  dropping or the usage is not meeting the demand or the supply
• 58:04
  is not meeting the demand. So what you can do is use the
• 58:07
  Bitcoin miners to soak up the difference.
• 58:09
  So as the power plants are producing this much and then the
• 58:12
  world is only using this much, you can use Bitcoin mining to
• 58:15
  use the whole amount of load. And then as the usage of this
• 58:18
  goes up, you can reduce the amount of Bitcoin miners being
• 58:20
  used. But with that being said, you're
• 58:22
  basically using the waste energy that otherwise the plant would
• 58:25
  just be, you know, venting out or, or wasting.
• 58:28
  And you can use it with Bitcoin miners.
• 58:29
  And that's like the the supply and demand of Bitcoin mining
• 58:32
  that you can ramp them up, you can turn them down.
• 58:35
  And those are the things that we talked about with load
• 58:36
  balancing, especially if you want to look at like ergot,
• 58:38
  Texas is a great example where they have a more, I'd say
• 58:42
  capitalistic or free market load where like the town can request
• 58:45
  Bitcoin miners to ramp down. In the event when there was the
• 58:48
  snowstorm, I think two years ago, 2 winters ago, when
• 58:51
  basically the grid needed more power as there was basically a
• 58:55
  bunch of downed power lines and stuff like that, they needed
• 58:57
  more energy. So the Bitcoin miners turned
• 58:59
  off. And ultimately they were paying
• 59:00
  the the Bitcoin miners to ramp down, but in order to get their
• 59:04
  energy for usage for emergency services and such.
• 59:08
  Yeah, 100%. And you, you made me think of,
• 59:12
  you know, you know how we hear so much Flack and FUD around
• 59:17
  Bitcoin mining using all of the world's energy?
• 59:21
  I know. I've seen some.
• 59:22
  Headlines, yeah, I know I've seen some headlines in regards
• 59:26
  to AI data centers as well, but I'm not sure if if you're
• 59:30
  combining these two, whether that flood is going to increase
• 59:34
  or whether this is going to kind of like whitewash the Bitcoin
• 59:37
  mining space. Like, hey, look, you know AI is
• 59:40
  the new future bubble of the world or not bubble, sorry, the
• 59:44
  new future technology of the world.
• 59:46
  And you're offsetting that with with Bitcoin mining.
• 59:49
  And I'm wondering if the narrative around Bitcoin mining
• 59:52
  will shift, if there is just like symbiotic relationship with
• 59:55
  AI or if it's going to kind of accelerate and get worse.
• 59:59
  So I, I don't know which one's going to do better for each
• 1:00:02
  other. It's like, is this going to help
• 1:00:03
  the AI narrative or is the AI narrative going to help the
• 1:00:06
  Bitcoin mining narrative? Or is it just going to be bad
• 1:00:08
  for all of us here? Maybe.
• 1:00:11
  Maybe the AI growth just helps people understand that just
• 1:00:15
  sheer use of a lot of energy is not inherently bad, so maybe it
• 1:00:19
  helps people reframe their own thinking around energy use.
• 1:00:23
  I mean, that would be my hope. You guys know me, I used to say
• 1:00:27
  this all the time. I'm for as much energy use as
• 1:00:29
  possible. Energy is good.
• 1:00:31
  I do not want to go back into the stone ages.
• 1:00:33
  I think we should be using more energy, as much energy as
• 1:00:36
  possible. That's always been my take.
• 1:00:39
  And then the second thought I had while we were talking about
• 1:00:41
  this is with these big, you know, very well capitalized
• 1:00:47
  companies coming into the Bitcoin mining space in various
• 1:00:49
  ways. Like the Bitcoin mining
• 1:00:52
  industry, I think is just going to become even more competitive
• 1:00:55
  than it already is. It's going to be like probably
• 1:00:58
  one of the hardest industries to be profitable and to be an
• 1:01:03
  industry leader in just because there's more capital coming in.
• 1:01:06
  It's already a ruthless industry.
• 1:01:09
  It's probably one of the hardest jobs right now is to be a
• 1:01:12
  Bitcoin miner, not just in Bitcoin, but at large.
• 1:01:16
  Like to be competitive in Bitcoin mining right now is I, I
• 1:01:20
  think it's it's probably next to none at this point.
• 1:01:24
  And the fact that we see some of these Bitcoin mining companies
• 1:01:27
  not only maintain their competitive lead, but just start
• 1:01:31
  to kind of break away when you're on the verge of having
• 1:01:33
  even more capital influx coming into it.
• 1:01:36
  It's just like the Bitcoin miners don't get enough applause
• 1:01:40
  here. Like they are really, they're
• 1:01:42
  the ones really holding it down for every single one of us.
• 1:01:45
  And we almost like forget about Bitcoin miners all the time,
• 1:01:48
  especially on the show. We, we try to talk about Bitcoin
• 1:01:50
  miners, but like no one that watches our show really cares
• 1:01:54
  about Bitcoin miners. And we're always like, hey,
• 1:01:56
  dude, remember the miners, man, The miners are the ones really
• 1:01:59
  holding it down for everyone here.
• 1:02:01
  They're the ones that are literally backing this whole
• 1:02:03
  network guys. So maybe what's today's date?
• 1:02:06
  Is there an official holiday today?
• 1:02:07
  Today is officially a thank your miner.
• 1:02:10
  You know, thank your Bitcoin miner day here September 26th,
• 1:02:15
  because I have the power. I I decree it at this point.
• 1:02:18
  Anyways, let's get into the culture here and what we got a
• 1:02:21
  we got a fun a fun segment for you guys.
• 1:02:24
  I'm, I'm sure you guys are going to like this.
• 1:02:25
  So we'll be right back in one second.
• 1:02:29
  I want to give a shout out to our partner Hive Digital
• 1:02:32
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  IO. Join today where Bitcoin meets
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  freedom. OK, boys and girls, we have the
• 1:04:34
  creator of Time Chain Calendar with us, TC.
• 1:04:37
  So TC, let's just start for the people that aren't familiar with
• 1:04:41
  your work, what is Time Chain Calendar?
• 1:04:43
  And then we'll move on to your latest developments.
• 1:04:47
  Well, thank you Opti. This is what we are looking at
• 1:04:50
  right now. This is the website
• 1:04:51
  timechaincalendar.com. It is a live data dashboard of
• 1:04:59
  Bitcoin. We're looking at that big block
• 1:05:02
  height number right now, which is telling you basically exactly
• 1:05:06
  how far the chain of Bitcoin has come.
• 1:05:10
  And this is also a really a special thing to me, which is
• 1:05:16
  this interface of circles that is trying to visually represent
• 1:05:22
  some very key features of Bitcoins protocol.
• 1:05:25
  So to me, this is both a functional daily dashboard to
• 1:05:29
  get updates about where Bitcoin is and of a whole variety of
• 1:05:33
  data pertinent to Bitcoin, but it's also sort of a life
• 1:05:38
  perspective kind of thing. I called it time chain calendar
• 1:05:42
  for a reason, just like a calendar where you look at it
• 1:05:45
  each day to kind of get your point of reference for where you
• 1:05:48
  are in the week, in the month, in the year.
• 1:05:51
  Here we are and we're at this particular block within this
• 1:05:55
  particular difficulty epoch, within this particular having
• 1:05:59
  epoch within the entire almost 17 years of supply issuance
• 1:06:04
  lifetime of Bitcoin. So it's about perspective, it's
• 1:06:08
  about learning a little bit more about Bitcoins protocol and it's
• 1:06:11
  a killer dashboard. Let's go.
• 1:06:15
  Yeah. I love it.
• 1:06:16
  I love it. Oh, wait.
• 1:06:18
  Did we? No.
• 1:06:19
  Wait, I thought we got a block. You, you were exploring little
• 1:06:22
  features there. No, no, you're you're mousing
• 1:06:24
  over if you mouse over those little.
• 1:06:25
  Tiny. Blocks.
• 1:06:27
  Those are past blocks in the last 24 hours and it lets you
• 1:06:30
  kind of get a quick view about a particular block.
• 1:06:34
  Like you could see that big gap between the blocks.
• 1:06:37
  This is another thing that that visualization shows you how the
• 1:06:40
  blocks are actually completely uneven.
• 1:06:43
  They could happen at any time. And so that visualization kind
• 1:06:47
  of reminds you about the randomness of Bitcoin blocks.
• 1:06:51
  Well, yeah, the randomness guys. We haven't seen a block in 20
• 1:06:54
  minutes. It's over.
• 1:06:56
  Bitcoin sketch I'm. Drilling.
• 1:06:58
  I'm drilling guy. No, no, I mean, hey, I, I think
• 1:07:01
  that's actually a valuable thing.
• 1:07:02
  We talk about 10 minute blocks all the time in Bitcoin.
• 1:07:05
  It's kind of a meme honestly that the blocks are 10 minutes.
• 1:07:08
  Yeah, you can see average block time nine minute 31.
• 1:07:11
  Seconds, right, right. So it's actually something
• 1:07:14
  really interesting to pay attention to because you'll
• 1:07:17
  notice like right now it is 9 minutes and 31 seconds on
• 1:07:20
  average. It's been more than half of the
• 1:07:21
  difficulty period already. That red circle tracks the
• 1:07:24
  difficulty period and that's roughly 2 weeks.
• 1:07:27
  So we got less than a week to go.
• 1:07:28
  There's about 5 days or so to go to the next difficulty
• 1:07:31
  adjustment. And based on the average block
• 1:07:34
  time, whether it's faster or slower than 10 minutes, the
• 1:07:38
  difficulty is going to go up or down.
• 1:07:40
  But we've had the difficulty go up several difficulty
• 1:07:44
  adjustments in a row and the blocks are still coming in
• 1:07:47
  faster than 10 minutes. And guess what, Opti and Chris,
• 1:07:50
  that's where the hash rate is, is derived from.
• 1:07:54
  The hash rate is estimated based on that pace of work with the
• 1:07:58
  particular known difficulty that's on the network right now.
• 1:08:03
  Well, it is very interesting considering the conversation we
• 1:08:05
  just had and sync the blocks come in so quickly.
• 1:08:09
  It just goes to show like there has, there is a lot of hash rate
• 1:08:14
  being put on the network that is hashing Bitcoin right now.
• 1:08:18
  And I wouldn't be surprised if we, you know, in the next couple
• 1:08:22
  of weeks or so find out that something huge has been built
• 1:08:26
  out. I know all year we've been
• 1:08:28
  hearing from the Hive team. They've been building out their
• 1:08:30
  mining infrastructure all year long.
• 1:08:32
  They've been kicking ass over there and every other company is
• 1:08:36
  doing something similar, whether it's, you know, the Trump, some
• 1:08:38
  American Bitcoin mining, you know, company coming out or all
• 1:08:43
  these other smaller kind of stories coming out.
• 1:08:46
  You are seeing like the hash rate is going crazy.
• 1:08:48
  And it reminds me of one of my buddies that hanged out in the
• 1:08:50
  chat, Matthew J. He's like, dude, we're going to
• 1:08:53
  get the one Zeta hash this year. And he was saying that like the
• 1:08:55
  beginning of the year and we finally get there and it's like,
• 1:08:58
  OK, all right, He, he predicted it was going to happen and
• 1:09:01
  you're seeing it happen in real time.
• 1:09:02
  We're above 1 Zeta hash. The blocks are coming in
• 1:09:05
  quicker. You know, the the wow, I'm
• 1:09:08
  blanking on it. The block retargeting.
• 1:09:11
  What is it? Hash rate difficulty, difficulty
• 1:09:13
  adjustment. Yeah, the difficulty adjustment
• 1:09:15
  in what you said a week here, actually, let me look at this.
• 1:09:18
  Let me. Yeah, let me be a little five
• 1:09:19
  days or so. What's this 788 blocks so?
• 1:09:23
  Five days from now, approximately, yeah.
• 1:09:24
  Yeah, 5 days, that's going to adjust since there's so much
• 1:09:29
  hash rate coming on the network. See, just come over to time
• 1:09:32
  chain calendar and you can learn so much.
• 1:09:34
  Also one other thing too, like even your cursors right or the
• 1:09:37
  bottom right, it shows like the the bottom right block shows the
• 1:09:41
  average time since genesis, the bottom, bottom right, far,
• 1:09:44
  bottom right. So it shows 93636 seconds.
• 1:09:47
  So obviously the network is always trying to target 10
• 1:09:50
  minutes, but overall, because of bitcoins growth and you, me and
• 1:09:54
  TC all know that like bitcoins always going up, that's the
• 1:09:57
  running joke. But you know, whether that's
• 1:09:59
  nodes, whether that's, you know, the amount of hash rate coming
• 1:10:02
  on the network, whether that's the price and Fiat, like
• 1:10:04
  everything's going up and to the right.
• 1:10:06
  Like even the Genesis, like we're running faster than the 10
• 1:10:09
  minute average time. Yeah.
• 1:10:12
  And you, you would expect that because the the hash rate has
• 1:10:16
  just been constantly growing. It's honestly, it's one of the
• 1:10:19
  most bullish signals in Bitcoin. If you keep an eye on that hash
• 1:10:23
  rate and you know that it going up is actual verification that
• 1:10:28
  there's just more people competing to win the next block.
• 1:10:31
  And I mean, that's the thing that's kind of stunning to me
• 1:10:34
  about it is that you can actually follow this over time.
• 1:10:39
  And regardless of whatever the market's doing, you can see that
• 1:10:42
  the people that are actually investing capital and trying to,
• 1:10:45
  you know, we were just talking about Google investing in a
• 1:10:48
  Bitcoin miner that's going to help out, you know, AI data
• 1:10:52
  centers. I mean, all of that activity is
• 1:10:56
  a real representation of, you know deep business interests and
• 1:11:01
  people actually really taking their bullishness about Bitcoin
• 1:11:05
  and and expressing it as actual action that impacts the pace of
• 1:11:11
  the blocks. So to me the whole thing is just
• 1:11:13
  really interconnected and and that's really some of the value.
• 1:11:18
  Of watching we just got a block. We just got a block.
• 1:11:21
  And actually, it's funny, I'm running my own Memple instance
• 1:11:25
  and there was only like a three second delay.
• 1:11:26
  So it's pretty quick. It's pretty snappy.
• 1:11:28
  Well, no, I mean, I, I have the mobile app, OK, right over here
• 1:11:32
  and I, I actually saw that block about 6 or 7.
• 1:11:36
  Seconds before snappy. That's good.
• 1:11:37
  That's crazy. OK, Well, hey, perfect Segway
• 1:11:41
  here. TC is the mobile app.
• 1:11:44
  So let me go over here. What's what's going on here,
• 1:11:48
  man? What, what, what, what so?
• 1:11:50
  You know, it's it's almost three years ago that I created the
• 1:11:54
  website and I've continued to develop it and it keeps evolving
• 1:11:58
  and that's a wonderful thing. But I have just launched mobile
• 1:12:03
  apps on iOS and Android that bring this whole experience to
• 1:12:07
  your mobile device in a whole new way.
• 1:12:09
  Just a side note, the website functions really well on a
• 1:12:12
  mobile phone already using a progressive web app approach,
• 1:12:17
  but this is a full blown native app that takes advantage of some
• 1:12:20
  native features in a really nice way and and just is a whole kind
• 1:12:24
  of next evolutionary step of the time chain calendar concept.
• 1:12:29
  So essentially you can download it on your iOS or Android device
• 1:12:35
  and you can basically have this in your pocket.
• 1:12:39
  You can keep track of the blockchain.
• 1:12:41
  You can search the blocks, go back in time.
• 1:12:45
  It has a really killer block estimation feature where you can
• 1:12:48
  search by block number or by date and actually estimate into
• 1:12:53
  the future when that block's going to hit.
• 1:12:55
  Say you're planning a big block 1,000,000 party or something
• 1:12:58
  like that. You're going to need to kind of
• 1:13:00
  estimate when that's going to happen.
• 1:13:02
  And then there's all these other really cool native features that
• 1:13:06
  you can unlock with a subscription.
• 1:13:09
  And there's a a camera that lets you snap photos with the live
• 1:13:13
  block data and the price right on top of your photos, Snap a
• 1:13:17
  picture of your newborn child and capture that block stamp or
• 1:13:21
  that price stamp when that moment occurs.
• 1:13:25
  There's push notifications, there's widgets.
• 1:13:27
  It's really a whole next experience.
• 1:13:29
  That's really what the mobile app is all about.
• 1:13:32
  That's awesome, man. Yeah, I, I was downloading it
• 1:13:35
  and I downloaded it this morning and I didn't, I didn't have
• 1:13:39
  enough time to figure out the widgets.
• 1:13:42
  So I'm like, yeah, man, time change calendar on iOS is a
• 1:13:46
  widget on, you know, my, one of my home screens or whatever.
• 1:13:49
  Like that'd be super cool though.
• 1:13:51
  I have one question here because I I didn't get enough time to
• 1:13:54
  really, you know, dive down into the app, but could you get a
• 1:14:00
  notification for every block coming in?
• 1:14:02
  Is that is that set up on there? You're not the first person
• 1:14:07
  who's asked they they actually, this isn't this is something
• 1:14:11
  that some crazy people want. You want to actually get a push
• 1:14:14
  notification on every block? I would urge you to reconsider
• 1:14:17
  that. But I haven't I have had that
• 1:14:19
  request. So what you can do is that the
• 1:14:23
  app does let you set block alerts and you can set up to 10
• 1:14:27
  of them. So basically as you get your
• 1:14:30
  notifications, you can set subsequent ones.
• 1:14:34
  But I'll tell you, currently that feature is implemented as
• 1:14:39
  just kind of a trigger based feature.
• 1:14:41
  So you set the specific number that you want to be alerted of
• 1:14:44
  and there's going to be a whole update that's going to bring
• 1:14:47
  recurring block alerts in. And I will consider giving you
• 1:14:52
  the doom button that buzzes you every single block.
• 1:14:55
  I, I'm not going to guarantee I'm going to actually make that
• 1:14:58
  feature because I'll tell you as the developer, it's my job to
• 1:15:02
  make sure the user doesn't shoot themselves in the foot.
• 1:15:04
  I, I, I'm not sure you actually want to get 144 push
• 1:15:08
  notifications on average every day.
• 1:15:11
  So I'm going to have you seen. I don't think you've seen my
• 1:15:13
  phone bro. My phone is blowing up all day.
• 1:15:17
  Opti likes the ESPN style update every touchdown sort on a
• 1:15:20
  weekend for football. Like no guys, I my phone blows
• 1:15:25
  up all day, but guess what? I have it on mute.
• 1:15:28
  So you know, I don't get those notifications, but you know, I
• 1:15:32
  look at it I'm like OK, OK cool. I put the phone down, I clear it
• 1:15:36
  and two minutes later I got another 40 notifications on my
• 1:15:39
  phone. So hey, what's one more
• 1:15:41
  notification on their? TC is is maybe like you could
• 1:15:45
  set it for like the next hour you get buzzed every block and
• 1:15:49
  then you could just kind of turn that on again and again that'd
• 1:15:52
  be kind of. Fun dude, give me every block,
• 1:15:54
  bro. No, I'm.
• 1:15:55
  I don't. I don't.
• 1:15:56
  I don't know. I actually did read that.
• 1:15:57
  I don't need that. Yeah, I don't.
• 1:15:59
  I don't need that. It should be an option, though.
• 1:16:01
  You should just put it in there just as an do it do it like a
• 1:16:03
  nuke option. You know, like don't do this
• 1:16:07
  unless you're a psychopath. No, you'll, you'll.
• 1:16:10
  Switch it on and it'll say, Are you sure?
• 1:16:12
  Yeah, yes. And then it'll say, are you
• 1:16:14
  really sure? OK, all right.
• 1:16:17
  I'm starting to warm up to the idea. 100% All right.
• 1:16:21
  I do want to mention guys, of course, if you're on the audio,
• 1:16:26
  you can download this for iOS and Android.
• 1:16:28
  But TC, let's talk about the the subscription one more time
• 1:16:33
  because that does give you extra features and maybe people want
• 1:16:37
  those features and they think they're going to get it right
• 1:16:39
  when they download the app. Right.
• 1:16:42
  So essentially the app, you get the beautiful dashboard executed
• 1:16:49
  for mobile right on the the home screen of the app.
• 1:16:55
  That's all for free with the download.
• 1:17:05
  They crashed my website. Oh my, my bad.
• 1:17:08
  I don't know what's going on here.
• 1:17:09
  That's. The famous halving video that
• 1:17:11
  crashed my website on on the halving last halving year and a
• 1:17:14
  half. Ago.
• 1:17:15
  Oh my God, dude, I couldn't hear you guys for a second.
• 1:17:18
  That was I I wasn't expecting that.
• 1:17:20
  I wasn't expecting that. Hey, so just to just to finish
• 1:17:23
  the, the subscription, the subscription is essentially like
• 1:17:29
  inside access to my laboratory of experiments and I'm basically
• 1:17:34
  trying to branch out into all the features that the mobile
• 1:17:37
  platform offers to give you more connectivity to Bitcoin.
• 1:17:43
  So for instance, these push notifications, if you want to
• 1:17:47
  know specific blocks, doesn't matter if you're in the grocery
• 1:17:51
  store or doing whatever you're doing, you're going to get that
• 1:17:54
  push notification the moment it happens.
• 1:17:56
  If you set your mining pool, it can notify you the moment your
• 1:18:01
  mining pool hits a block. If you turn on calendar alerts,
• 1:18:05
  you can configure a time of day that you want to receive updates
• 1:18:09
  about historical or important things that happened in Bitcoin
• 1:18:13
  on that day in the past. There's just a whole bunch of
• 1:18:18
  ways to kind of connect this awareness and this data to your
• 1:18:23
  daily experience. I really like the camera.
• 1:18:25
  I think it's a it's a really cool thing because a lot of
• 1:18:28
  people used time change calendar over the last few years to do
• 1:18:32
  just that. Like their kid was born and they
• 1:18:34
  wanted to look at the block height or they finish a piece of
• 1:18:37
  art and they want to stamp it with the the block height.
• 1:18:39
  Will the camera feature lets you just reach in your pocket, pull
• 1:18:42
  that out, snap your picture and you've got the block height.
• 1:18:45
  The price just embedded right there on the picture or in video
• 1:18:49
  too. You know, after you could do
• 1:18:51
  little V log rants about Bitcoin with a live price feed going.
• 1:18:56
  It's a It's a cool feature. Yeah, that is pretty cool.
• 1:18:59
  That is, that is, yeah. TC I'll add one more thing too.
• 1:19:01
  Like sometimes in the moment you know, whether you know it's a
• 1:19:04
  life event, you're busy, you don't take out your phone or
• 1:19:06
  whatever, but you can always go back and like search the time
• 1:19:08
  and then like that'll tell you what block it was when that
• 1:19:11
  occurred, which is really cool as well.
• 1:19:15
  Dude, ain't nobody got time for all that, Chris.
• 1:19:17
  That's why you use the camera. You know, somebody, somebody was
• 1:19:22
  talking to me about it and they were, they were saying, you
• 1:19:24
  know, block heights are definitely really cool.
• 1:19:26
  There's sometimes you really will remember a certain block
• 1:19:29
  height. But how much does the price kind
• 1:19:31
  of stick in your head? Like everybody remembers 58K.
• 1:19:35
  Everybody remembers when we dip down to 16 or when we peaked out
• 1:19:38
  at 69. And, you know, I mean, I in some
• 1:19:41
  ways that's, that's kind of almost a stickier little piece
• 1:19:45
  of data to tie in with your memories.
• 1:19:48
  So of course, like, that's why those were the first two bits of
• 1:19:52
  data that I put on that feature. It's the block height and it's
• 1:19:54
  the price. And to snap that and merge that
• 1:19:59
  bit of data with your moment. Just I I already get excited
• 1:20:03
  just thinking about years from now, looking back at my old
• 1:20:06
  photos and having. That sort of memory hook there
• 1:20:11
  where, you know, I think all Bitcoiners know that experience
• 1:20:14
  of looking back and going, Oh my God, look at what the where the
• 1:20:16
  price was at that time. So it's kind of an interesting
• 1:20:20
  way to look at that feature. Did we lose Opti to fall into
• 1:20:25
  the matrix? I think he fell into the matrix.
• 1:20:26
  I think he's here but is. My, my, no, my camera.
• 1:20:29
  I guess it wasn't charged. Whatever, we're back.
• 1:20:33
  Your camera got jealous of the time chain calendar camera.
• 1:20:35
  Yeah, the camera got jealous and I had it in, so we'll we'll get
• 1:20:42
  it going. Sorry, guys.
• 1:20:44
  I think we're back. I think we're back.
• 1:20:46
  Is this back? Is it alive?
• 1:20:47
  Yeah, it's alive. All right, give me one second.
• 1:20:50
  I'll make sure you guys see me. See my ugly mug in 4K.
• 1:20:54
  There we go. OK, All right, man, yeah, that's
• 1:20:58
  super, super cool TC and super awesome to see you building on
• 1:21:02
  it. And it really kind of goes into
• 1:21:04
  just the whole thesis of bitcoiners.
• 1:21:07
  Like literally, what's the meme? What's the recent meme?
• 1:21:10
  You can just build things. And if people like it, you know,
• 1:21:13
  they'll, they'll push you along on the journey.
• 1:21:17
  And I think this is one of those examples of something that you
• 1:21:21
  saw you wanted and you just went out and built it though.
• 1:21:24
  Though I think the real question is TC, were you able to code
• 1:21:28
  when you start or did you just kind of vibe code this?
• 1:21:32
  I have been doing code almost 2 decades man.
• 1:21:37
  It's a. Long time we vibe coded it.
• 1:21:40
  No, I don't think it would be as cool if it was vibe coded.
• 1:21:42
  You know, vibe coding is a very, you know, fun sort of cultural
• 1:21:48
  thing right now. But the truth is, is quality
• 1:21:53
  software requires some real care and that requires a little bit
• 1:21:57
  of experience. I think there's some phenomenal
• 1:22:00
  things that people have vibe coded, but it really does kind
• 1:22:02
  of become properly formed and polished when when somebody
• 1:22:08
  actually, you know, knows the entire software process for
• 1:22:14
  building and putting things out. That being said, I learned an
• 1:22:19
  absolute ton doing this mobile app.
• 1:22:23
  This is my first mobile app. I'd never done an iOS or an
• 1:22:27
  Android app before. And there's several other
• 1:22:29
  aspects of the project that I I absolutely tackled brand new
• 1:22:34
  challenges and overcame them doing this.
• 1:22:38
  So, you know, I think it's it speaks to the moment right now,
• 1:22:41
  which is we're living in an incredible time for doing
• 1:22:45
  anything with technology. And you know, if you have an
• 1:22:49
  idea, you should absolutely jump in and vibe code it and see how
• 1:22:53
  far you get. But it's also just a real
• 1:22:58
  testament to some of this technology like the AI stuff,
• 1:23:01
  how it really can help you overcome what would otherwise be
• 1:23:07
  major roadblocks that it's crazy.
• 1:23:08
  I think back about times in the past where it was like, OK, I
• 1:23:12
  need to spend a couple years studying something.
• 1:23:14
  No, you don't. Today you don't.
• 1:23:16
  You just jump in and you Start learning on the fly.
• 1:23:21
  Yeah, man, 100% love to see it. All right, TC, let's do one last
• 1:23:26
  plug before we wrap up today's show.
• 1:23:28
  Where can they find you and where can they find time chain
• 1:23:32
  calendar? Well, I scored this domain time
• 1:23:35
  chain calendar.com. On the web, you can find the
• 1:23:40
  beautiful dashboard and all that information right there anytime
• 1:23:43
  for free anywhere in the world. The mobile app, the brand new
• 1:23:48
  goodness is out globally on the Apple App Store, the Google Play
• 1:23:54
  Store download for iOS and Android.
• 1:23:56
  There's much more coming guys. I really appreciate you bringing
• 1:23:59
  me on and I just want to let people know that this is just
• 1:24:01
  the beginning. There's there's round after
• 1:24:04
  round of more stuff on its way. The pipeline is is filled.
• 1:24:10
  Yeah, well, TC, it's like we were joking before the show, you
• 1:24:13
  know, for for us here, it's simply it feels the same way.
• 1:24:17
  We have just gotten from zero to 1 and you were saying the same
• 1:24:20
  thing about time 10 calendar. It's like I climb, I climbed to
• 1:24:24
  bat what what you said, I climbed to base camp and I still
• 1:24:27
  have to climb up Mount Everest. And man, it always feels like
• 1:24:31
  that as an entrepreneur, someone building something like, OK,
• 1:24:34
  I'm, I'm really, really excited about the accomplishments I've
• 1:24:37
  made. But man, there's still so much
• 1:24:39
  more to come and so much more to climb.
• 1:24:41
  So, you know, I feel you and I'm glad to be in the trenches with
• 1:24:45
  you, bro. So this is just part of Bitcoin
• 1:24:48
  life. Man, what a what a trip.
• 1:24:51
  Absolutely. All righty then, guys.
• 1:24:54
  Well, TC, thanks for coming on today.
• 1:24:56
  Chris, thank you so much for filling in today.
• 1:25:00
  And here, let me just pull you guys off for a second.
• 1:25:02
  I'll wrap up the show. Just hang out for one second,
• 1:25:04
  guys. You already know the deal.
• 1:25:07
  It's Friday. We made it through another week
• 1:25:10
  here at Simply Bitcoin. OK, Later, Chris.
• 1:25:13
  I see. I think that's Chris.
• 1:25:15
  Yeah, yeah, later. Dude, we love you guys.
• 1:25:18
  We appreciate you guys again. Of course, got to remind you
• 1:25:21
  smash the like button, comment on the show.
• 1:25:22
  What do you think about the show?
• 1:25:23
  And then of course, hit the subscribe button.
• 1:25:25
  We are dropping the best content, the most content.
• 1:25:27
  There is more shows than just a live show.
• 1:25:30
  Check that out and we'll be back on Monday at roughly 12:30 PM
• 1:25:35
  Eastern Time. Of course, get outside, get some
• 1:25:38
  sun, eat some good food, call your loved ones, stack some
• 1:25:41
  stats, all that good stuff. It's been your boy, Opti and I
• 1:25:44
  will see you on Monday later man.
• 1:25:47
  Today's episode was brought to you by bitcoinwell.com.
• 1:25:50
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• 1:25:53
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