Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Is Killer Yoga Teacher on the Run With Look-Alike Sister's ID?

Transcript

Is Killer Yoga Teacher on the Run With Look-Alike Sister's ID? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece, Texas love triangle turns deadly
0:17
Speaker 1: when a gorgeous young biker, the number one female dirt
0:22
Speaker 1: gravel biker in the world, is gunned down in the
0:27
Speaker 1: bathroom of a friend's apartment, shot multiple times. Why because
0:34
Speaker 1: a woman was scorned and that woman had a gun.
0:39
Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
0:42
Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation. In series XM
0:45
Speaker 1: one eleven, we are bringing you the very latest in
0:48
Speaker 1: the search for the yoga instructor Caitlin Armstrong who is
0:55
Speaker 1: on the run. First of all, take a listen to
0:59
Speaker 1: our friends at crime Online. Fox News is reporting that
1:02
Speaker 1: a man reported seeing Kaitlin Armstrong's sister Christine at a
1:06
Speaker 1: remote campground in upstate New York. He also claims to
1:10
Speaker 1: have spotted Kaitlyn Armstrong at that same campground. The camp
1:13
Speaker 1: Haven Compound in Livingston, Manor, is a remote camping area
1:17
Speaker 1: that Christine Armstrong has been staying at for some time.
1:20
Speaker 1: The witness claims that Katalin Armstrong joined her sister at
1:23
Speaker 1: the campground last month in the days following the murder
1:26
Speaker 1: of Mariah Wilson. The man says he saw Kaylyn up
1:29
Speaker 1: their quote right before the whole thing blew up. Une
1:33
Speaker 1: Private investigator Jason Jensen says he believes Kaitlin Armstrong maybe
1:37
Speaker 1: using her sister's name to avoid being captured, with Christine
1:41
Speaker 1: having been at a remote campground in upstate New York
1:44
Speaker 1: for some time and Kaylyn joining her shortly after the
1:47
Speaker 1: story win National, it is not a far stretch to
1:50
Speaker 1: think that Katalin becoming Christine and then simply disappearing across
1:54
Speaker 1: the Canadian border. Not a stretch at all, except for
1:57
Speaker 1: the fact she was spotted at Newark International Airport with
2:01
Speaker 1: me and All Star panel to make sense of what
2:03
Speaker 1: we know right now, But first I want to go
2:06
Speaker 1: straight out to Fox News Digital reporter. They're the ones
2:10
Speaker 1: that broke this case. Michael Ruiz broke this tip. Anyway,
2:14
Speaker 1: Michael Ruise, tell me everything and don't leave anything out.
2:18
Speaker 1: Then I'm going to go to private investigator Jason Jensen,
2:22
Speaker 1: who is on the case. Okay, Michael Ruise, hit me,
2:26
Speaker 1: as you know, Kaitlyn Armstrong flew into LaGuardia Airport the US.
2:29
Speaker 1: Marshall tell us on me fourteen. Okay, wait, Michael Ruise,
2:33
Speaker 1: can we start with the date location of the murder. Yes,
2:37
Speaker 1: we can. I want to start with that. I want
2:39
Speaker 1: to start with Mariah Wilson, Moe twenty five years old. Cute, cute, cute, sweet,
2:48
Speaker 1: little petite, nothing but muscle, splattering of freckles across her face.
2:53
Speaker 1: Always has a big smile on her face. If you
2:55
Speaker 1: notice that Jackie always has a bike helmet on. It's
2:59
Speaker 1: on a bike practically every picture. And this young girl,
3:03
Speaker 1: just just twenty five years old at the time of
3:06
Speaker 1: her life, at the top condition she'll probably ever be
3:10
Speaker 1: for biking, is trapped in a bathroom and shot dead,
3:16
Speaker 1: multiple gunshots. Now that was all. What day was that?
3:19
Speaker 1: The eleventh? I was on May eleventh, right before okay,
3:23
Speaker 1: ten pm? And you see the yoga instructor's suv circling
3:29
Speaker 1: her the apartment where she's staying like a vulture, and
3:32
Speaker 1: then she shot dead. Then what happens to the yoga instructor. Oh?
3:38
Speaker 1: The next day, Caitlyn Armstrong, the yoga instructor of the
3:41
Speaker 1: suspect and the killing of Moe Wilson, is questioned by
3:44
Speaker 1: police on an unrelated warrant and due to a clerical errort.
3:48
Speaker 1: Wait wait wait, wait, wait, this is important Michael Ruise. Now,
3:52
Speaker 1: I know it doesn't mean anything to you, but let
3:54
Speaker 1: me go to one of the ladies on the panel,
3:56
Speaker 1: Cheryl mccollin with me, founder director of the Cold Case
3:59
Speaker 1: Research Institute. You can find her at Coldcase Crimes dot org.
4:02
Speaker 1: It wasn't just a misdemeanor, Cheryl McCollum. The yoga is
4:07
Speaker 1: tracer gorgeous. I might add, who I believe it's a
4:10
Speaker 1: stone cold killer. Goes and gets botox six hundred dollars.
4:16
Speaker 1: She shoot your face up with botox. Not judging at all.
4:20
Speaker 1: This is what I'm judging. She says, Oh, here's my
4:23
Speaker 1: master card. Wait a minute, let me use my other card.
4:25
Speaker 1: It's in the car. She goes out and takes off
4:29
Speaker 1: and leaves the salon high and dry for the botox.
4:33
Speaker 1: That's why the other warrant was on, and they had
4:36
Speaker 1: like the wrongdo beer or something on the warrant, and
4:39
Speaker 1: they let her slip through their fingers on this old warrant.
4:42
Speaker 1: But can you just comment on the botox switcheroo. Well,
4:47
Speaker 1: once again, what she is doing is all about her.
4:50
Speaker 1: It's for her, it only benefits her. It's all about her.
4:54
Speaker 1: And it also shows that you know she has no
4:58
Speaker 1: issue at all and no head of Tasia doing like
5:00
Speaker 1: a little flim flam, a little switcheroo, as you say.
5:03
Speaker 1: And she's also a lot afraid she's gonna get caught
5:06
Speaker 1: the warrant, leave the groceries on the I mean, leave
5:11
Speaker 1: my credit card at Kroger, and run out from my
5:14
Speaker 1: other credit card and take off than the man in
5:17
Speaker 1: the moon. She is not afraid she's gonna get apprehended. Okay,
5:21
Speaker 1: So Michael Ruise, I had to do a little deet
5:23
Speaker 1: or to point out the botox scam back to you.
5:26
Speaker 1: After she's questioned and released on the botox warrant, she
5:30
Speaker 1: flies to New York's Labority Airport. Didn't they question her
5:34
Speaker 1: about why her SUV was spotted circling the apartment where
5:40
Speaker 1: Moe was murdered? And she went, oh, that doesn't look
5:42
Speaker 1: too good, does it? And they let her go. Michael Ruise,
5:45
Speaker 1: according to the warrant, the murder warrant, you know, for
5:49
Speaker 1: the Moe Wilson case, which was not secured until a
5:52
Speaker 1: couple of days after all this, after the interview and
5:54
Speaker 1: after she fled, she couldn't explain that they asked her
5:58
Speaker 1: about it they confronted her, and she didn't really get
6:00
Speaker 1: them an answer, according to the warrant, So she flew
6:02
Speaker 1: to New York on May fourteenth. Okay, murder. May eleven,
6:06
Speaker 1: she's questioned about the bouta, She's questioned about her SUV
6:09
Speaker 1: as the murder scene. They let her go inexplicably, and
6:13
Speaker 1: then she spotted in New York three days later May fourteen.
6:19
Speaker 1: That was in New York, LaGuardia. Okay, then what happens? Okay?
6:23
Speaker 1: So then from LaGuardia, we don't know where she goes
6:27
Speaker 1: until May eighteenth. She spotted at Newark. But Jason Jensen,
6:32
Speaker 1: the great private investigator that he is, lagged us the
6:35
Speaker 1: tip that there was some activity in between there in
6:39
Speaker 1: New York. At first, we were wondering, why would Caitlyn
6:41
Speaker 1: Armstrong go to New York? What links does she have there?
6:43
Speaker 1: I interviewed a lot of people who knew her. Nobody
6:46
Speaker 1: knew of any ties to New York that she had.
6:48
Speaker 1: But Jason Jensen realized that there was a tie her
6:51
Speaker 1: sister happened to be happened to show up on some
6:53
Speaker 1: public records in New York. You know what, Michael Louise,
6:56
Speaker 1: Here's something else I like about you. You. You know,
7:00
Speaker 1: my son is a great basketball player. He's just fourteen,
7:05
Speaker 1: but he always hands off the basketball to somebody else.
7:07
Speaker 1: My dad did that too. Instead of always taking the
7:11
Speaker 1: shot himself, he hands it off to his friends. You
7:14
Speaker 1: just did that. Jason Jensen is who Michael Luis is
7:17
Speaker 1: talking about. Jason Jensen private investigator out of Salt Lake
7:20
Speaker 1: City with Jensen Private Investigations. You can find them at
7:25
Speaker 1: Jensen Private Investigations dot com. Jason, tell me about how
7:30
Speaker 1: you found Caitlin Armstrong's sister up in the middle of
7:34
Speaker 1: nowhere and up state New York. Sure, that's really quite
7:38
Speaker 1: simple anyone with experience looking for fugitives. No, A couple
7:42
Speaker 1: of things about fugitives is Number one, they're gonna go
7:46
Speaker 1: play and find a location that they're familiar with that
7:49
Speaker 1: they can blend in because they feel like they're accustomed
7:52
Speaker 1: to the area and they know the routine. The other
7:55
Speaker 1: thing is they often go looking for a family member
7:58
Speaker 1: or a trusted confident that they can get assistance with. Well,
8:02
Speaker 1: here what we learned is the last place she was
8:06
Speaker 1: seeing was in you know, on the fourteenth of May.
8:10
Speaker 1: She was walking through mcguardia airport. So it's like, why
8:14
Speaker 1: was she there? So I get a deep background on
8:18
Speaker 1: her and then of family members, and I see lo
8:21
Speaker 1: and behold that there was an address pinned to her sister,
8:26
Speaker 1: Christine Elizabeth Armstrong in New York. It's like, why is
8:30
Speaker 1: she in New York? She is a Texas resident. Why
8:34
Speaker 1: is she in New York? So did I looked a
8:37
Speaker 1: little deeper to a comprehensive background on her, and I
8:41
Speaker 1: see that she obtained she obtained a driver's license on
8:45
Speaker 1: the seventeenth, using an address for it camp Haven. Why
8:50
Speaker 1: would you need a driver's license if you're visiting a
8:55
Speaker 1: different state at a campsite. Okay, wait, let me understand something.
8:59
Speaker 1: This sister got a new address, or Caitlin got a
9:04
Speaker 1: new address, I mean a new driver's license Christine the
9:07
Speaker 1: sister did. Like if Christine got at a temporary or
9:11
Speaker 1: address and she's a Texas resident with a Texas home,
9:16
Speaker 1: why does she need a New York ide? And another
9:20
Speaker 1: thing to Jeffrey Jensen, Professor forensic Pathology and Director of
9:24
Speaker 1: autoxy Forensic Services, University Michigan, I'm thinking about all of
9:32
Speaker 1: the forensic trail left behind. I don't think this is
9:37
Speaker 1: any coincidence that the alleged killer and this love triangle.
9:43
Speaker 1: The yoga instructor, Caitlin Armstrong turns up in New York
9:47
Speaker 1: on the fourteenth, spotted again leaving we think at a Newark.
9:52
Speaker 1: Spotted at Newark on the eighteenth, and on the seventeenth
9:56
Speaker 1: it pops up her sister, who bears a striking reason
10:00
Speaker 1: once get some new driver's license in New York. That's
10:03
Speaker 1: just not a coincidence. Jeffrey Jenson, I know, typically when
10:07
Speaker 1: we're investigating cases like this, we delve into the background
10:11
Speaker 1: and as you know me and see that there's always
10:14
Speaker 1: trade sevenance left either on the victim or on the perpetrator.
10:19
Speaker 1: So it's almost impossible to avoid some kind of of
10:24
Speaker 1: evidence trail, either DNA or some kind of personal effects.
10:30
Speaker 1: And in this case it appears to be issues to
10:34
Speaker 1: attempt to change the change her identity. You know, Schryl McCollum,
10:40
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about what Jason Jensen just told us. With
10:44
Speaker 1: jets and Private Investigations dot Com. You know how many
10:47
Speaker 1: times were you in court with May and there'd be
10:50
Speaker 1: a bond forfeitter. In other words, a defendant, a felony
10:53
Speaker 1: defendant didn't show up for court. First thing I'd say
10:56
Speaker 1: is go look under mama's bed, because that's where he's
10:59
Speaker 1: going to be. He's gonna be at his mother's house,
11:02
Speaker 1: or his aunt's house, or as auntie or his granny.
11:07
Speaker 1: Look under the bed, look in the bedroom closet, and
11:09
Speaker 1: bring him to court. And that's exactly what Jason Jensen
11:13
Speaker 1: is saying. You always go to a place familiar to you.
11:18
Speaker 1: And this is her sister. Yes, I think she's definitely
11:21
Speaker 1: had help from her sister and possibly her father. If
11:24
Speaker 1: this was my case Nancy, the murder being on the eleventh,
11:27
Speaker 1: her being questioned and released on the twelfth, and then
11:29
Speaker 1: flying out on the fourteenth, I would concentrate on the thirteenth.
11:33
Speaker 1: That's your money tree. That's when she got the Burger phone,
11:36
Speaker 1: she got some cash, she packed her clothes and her
11:39
Speaker 1: yoga pants. That's when she made calls, emails, text messages,
11:44
Speaker 1: instant messages. However, she communicated with her family. That's the
11:47
Speaker 1: day she said, all this in motion and it's going
11:50
Speaker 1: to be there. And you know what else. Michael Luise
11:52
Speaker 1: joining me, a reporter with Fox News Digital, he first
11:55
Speaker 1: broke this about her being spotted. We think up Upstate
12:00
Speaker 1: New York with her sister. When Sheryl McCollum just said
12:04
Speaker 1: she's using a burner phone. She's not just a yoga instructor.
12:07
Speaker 1: She's also a realtor. And she flips houses, buys a
12:12
Speaker 1: house and very quickly sells it for more money. So
12:15
Speaker 1: she's cash rich, we think. So she has money to
12:20
Speaker 1: buy several burner phones and to travel. Yeah, so the
12:23
Speaker 1: US Marshalls have said that they told us about her career.
12:27
Speaker 1: They told us she may have cash on hand. And
12:29
Speaker 1: she seems to be tech savvy enough, you know, to know, well,
12:32
Speaker 1: if I use my phone, they'll find me, so I'll
12:34
Speaker 1: use a different one or who knows what. But it's
12:37
Speaker 1: pretty reasonable to think that she's aware of that. And
12:40
Speaker 1: we haven't seen her obviously popping up on social media
12:43
Speaker 1: or anything in the past few weeks. Time Stories with
12:56
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Is she getting help from sister Christine? Is
13:01
Speaker 1: she getting help from her father? Take a listen to
13:03
Speaker 1: our friend Matt Gutman with Armstrong's father from ABC. Mike
13:08
Speaker 1: Armstrong is shattered. He said his daughter is not capable
13:12
Speaker 1: of committing the crime. She's accused of murdering a love
13:15
Speaker 1: rival in a fit of jealous rage. But there is
13:17
Speaker 1: one thing that he and authorities agree upon. At this point.
13:21
Speaker 1: There are a lot of and I answer questions here.
13:24
Speaker 1: We love you, Katie, and we are going to figure
13:27
Speaker 1: this out this morning, the father of missing murder suspect
13:29
Speaker 1: Caitlin Armstrong, speaking exclusively with the ABC News. I know her.
13:34
Speaker 1: I know how she thinks, and I know what she believes,
13:39
Speaker 1: and I know that she would not do something like this.
13:43
Speaker 1: I know her, I know her, He says his daughter
13:46
Speaker 1: is not capable of committing the crime she's charged with
13:49
Speaker 1: shooting her alleged romantic rival, rising cycling star Mariah Wilson.
13:54
Speaker 1: That is what they believe. I know that she did
13:56
Speaker 1: not do this. There are a lot of unanswered questions. Well,
13:59
Speaker 1: there are a lot of unanswered questions. And I gotta
14:01
Speaker 1: tell you something. James shell Nutt with me twenty seven
14:04
Speaker 1: years metro major case now lawyer at the shell Nutt
14:08
Speaker 1: Law Firm, joining me out of Alabama right now, James
14:11
Speaker 1: shell Nutt, there is no father daughter privilege like attorney
14:19
Speaker 1: client privilege, priests, congregant privilege, husband wife privilege. Anything that
14:28
Speaker 1: she may have said to her father or sister is
14:32
Speaker 1: not privilege, if they are drawn, if they are called
14:34
Speaker 1: to a grand jury. Right, there's not illegal one. But
14:37
Speaker 1: you know that's daddy's baby girl, and he's gonna do
14:40
Speaker 1: whatever he can a protect her. And that includes denying
14:43
Speaker 1: anything that she says, that denying cooperation you went in
14:48
Speaker 1: life for your child. Oh yeah, listen, I will tell
14:52
Speaker 1: you this daddy's baby girl is a day's baby girl.
14:55
Speaker 1: And yeah, I would like to think that I would
14:59
Speaker 1: do what y'all need to do, which is be straightforward
15:02
Speaker 1: and forthcoming. I don't know what I would do in
15:05
Speaker 1: that position. I don't know. I'll tell you this. I
15:07
Speaker 1: think my father would walk through Helen back to protect me,
15:10
Speaker 1: and I think this father would too. So long story short,
15:14
Speaker 1: the reality is she's getting help from somewhere. To Jason,
15:18
Speaker 1: Jason Private, an investigator joining us out of Salt Lake City, Jason,
15:23
Speaker 1: tell me what witnesses or say. Now you've told us
15:26
Speaker 1: her sister Christine. Do you know what Christine looks like?
15:30
Speaker 1: By the way, well yes, I mean the nice thing
15:32
Speaker 1: is about this day and age, everyone has social media
15:36
Speaker 1: and Christine definitely is on Facebook. So you compare her
15:40
Speaker 1: images to her sister Caitlin, you'd almost will that they
15:44
Speaker 1: were twins. You know, just a little hay exact color change,
15:48
Speaker 1: her style change, and you could actually double as your
15:51
Speaker 1: sister in this situation. Absolutely my thought exactly. This reminds
15:58
Speaker 1: me of Scott Peterson. Do you remember doctor Sherry Schwartz,
16:02
Speaker 1: forensic psychologist specializing and law and psychology, in fact, the
16:07
Speaker 1: author of Where Law and Psychology Interact? Question to you,
16:12
Speaker 1: doctor Sherry, do you remember when Scott Peterson went on
16:15
Speaker 1: the run and he was caught. He had released his
16:19
Speaker 1: hair blonde, he had about ten grand, a lot of
16:21
Speaker 1: camping equipment, viagra, and his brothers id As I recall,
16:26
Speaker 1: remember that if I do, families stick together. And I
16:32
Speaker 1: have no doubt in my mind that brothers and sisters
16:35
Speaker 1: help each other. And did you hear what Jason Jensen
16:38
Speaker 1: just said they could be twins? Yes? And there's you know,
16:42
Speaker 1: you have empathy for the family because this is their sister,
16:46
Speaker 1: their daughter. You don't want anything terrible to happen to them.
16:50
Speaker 1: Texas does happen to be a death penalty state. But
16:54
Speaker 1: as a psychologist who works in this business, I see
16:57
Speaker 1: it a little bit differently, Nancy. I see somebody who
17:02
Speaker 1: perhaps has never been taught to take responsibility for their actions.
17:07
Speaker 1: And this isn't just guided by what she's accused of here,
17:11
Speaker 1: but by the botox charge, his sense of entitlement. It's mine.
17:16
Speaker 1: I can get away with it because I've never had
17:18
Speaker 1: any real consequences in my life. You know, it's interesting
17:21
Speaker 1: that you're saying that, Ruis Jensen. Everybody jump in on this,
17:25
Speaker 1: But Cheryl McCollum, do you hear what daughter Sherry Sports
17:28
Speaker 1: is saying. Think about it. It's not just the botox theft,
17:32
Speaker 1: it's not just going on the run. It's a lifetime,
17:37
Speaker 1: a lifetime. Think about her. Her boyfriend, Colin Strickland, was cheating,
17:42
Speaker 1: So did she break up? No, she started stalking him.
17:45
Speaker 1: She started stalking mo Mariah on this app that people
17:50
Speaker 1: used to follow cyclists and their paths. She I guess
17:58
Speaker 1: acted with a sense of invincibility that nothing was going
18:03
Speaker 1: to stop her as she was going to do whatever
18:05
Speaker 1: she wanted to to get what she wanted. Some people
18:09
Speaker 1: would argue, you know, impulse control, But these weren't impulses.
18:12
Speaker 1: These were premeditated acts. Oh yeah, this was calculated. And
18:16
Speaker 1: you know it's funny when her dad says, there's so
18:18
Speaker 1: many unanswered questions. Well, let's talk about the answered one.
18:22
Speaker 1: It was her suv. She's got no alibi, she's got
18:26
Speaker 1: no excuse for her car being there. It was her
18:29
Speaker 1: freaking gun Nancy. She also said she wanted this girl dead,
18:34
Speaker 1: and a tipster called in to the police, which means
18:37
Speaker 1: she was telling people those we know are facts. So
18:41
Speaker 1: you know, Dad could say, there's all these unanswered questions,
18:44
Speaker 1: but the most significant thing he didn't say is turn
18:48
Speaker 1: yourself in all over a man, and no offense to
18:52
Speaker 1: the men in the studio or the men on this panel.
18:55
Speaker 1: But really, I mean, I love my husband, but he
18:59
Speaker 1: to mine college anyway. And believe me, I look, doesn't
19:02
Speaker 1: have girlfriend's numbers and his phone under another name. He's
19:07
Speaker 1: not lying about where he is when he says he's
19:09
Speaker 1: at work. He's at work. When he says he's at
19:13
Speaker 1: the grocery store, the pharmacy, the laundry, that's really where
19:16
Speaker 1: he is. I don't have to follow him around town
19:19
Speaker 1: to try to find him. I mean, as my grandmother
19:23
Speaker 1: would say, that kind of man is not worth the
19:26
Speaker 1: salt that goes in his bread, So why would you
19:29
Speaker 1: kill over him? We keep talking about Caitlin Armstrong's family,
19:35
Speaker 1: But what about Marijah most family? Listen to this our
19:40
Speaker 1: cut fourteen. This is Jennifer Sanders kay x a N.
19:45
Speaker 1: Police say Wilson was visiting before a weekend race. Now,
19:49
Speaker 1: according to court documents, she met up with Colin Strickland,
19:52
Speaker 1: a popular cyclist in the Austin community, last Wednesday. Strickland
19:57
Speaker 1: is Caitlin Armstrong's boyfriend, according to court records, but in
20:00
Speaker 1: the Affidavid Strickland said he and Wilson had a short
20:04
Speaker 1: romantic relationship. Now after Strickland dropped Wilson off, the investigators
20:09
Speaker 1: say security footage shows Armstrong's vehicle parked near the house.
20:13
Speaker 1: They also say ballistics testing shows a firearm that belonged
20:17
Speaker 1: to Armstrong is the weapon likely involved in the murder.
20:21
Speaker 1: According to court documents, an anonymous caller told police that
20:24
Speaker 1: Armstrong made statements in the past expressing a desire to
20:28
Speaker 1: kill Wilson. It's important to note, though, that police say
20:31
Speaker 1: Strickland is not a suspect. A long story short, Not
20:35
Speaker 1: only the boyfriend, Colin Strickland, but other friends have left
20:40
Speaker 1: the state of Texas afraid that Kaitlin Armstrong is now
20:45
Speaker 1: going to come after them. And another thing. To Jeffrey Jensen,
20:50
Speaker 1: Professor forensic Pathology joining US University of Michigan, it's not
20:55
Speaker 1: rock science, it's not brain surgery to get a match
20:59
Speaker 1: on ballistics. Reportedly, Kaitlin Armstrong had just gotten this gun.
21:04
Speaker 1: It was a six hour All you do is put
21:09
Speaker 1: a fresh bullet in that gun, shoot it into a
21:12
Speaker 1: barrel of water, into a pillow. Then you take it
21:15
Speaker 1: and you take a bullet from the body or from
21:18
Speaker 1: the crime scene. The known bullet. You look under a
21:21
Speaker 1: microscope and they will have identical like a fingerprint, striations
21:26
Speaker 1: markings on the bullet that no other gun will leave. Right, Yeah,
21:32
Speaker 1: you're correct, Nancy. Firearms analysis analysts these days have really
21:38
Speaker 1: sophisticated equipment that they can microscopically examine fired bullets and
21:44
Speaker 1: make comparisons in a way that they couldn't do in
21:48
Speaker 1: the past. They can also check the fired cartridges to
21:53
Speaker 1: see if those cartridges left at scenes, for example, could
21:58
Speaker 1: be attributed to a multi sapule shooting scenes. So the
22:03
Speaker 1: modern crime lab of firearm analyst has really a lot
22:09
Speaker 1: of tools to make those comparisons. To Michael Luise joining
22:13
Speaker 1: US Fox News Digital, who just cracked this chip wide
22:17
Speaker 1: open about Caitlin Ltrom being spotted up with her sister
22:21
Speaker 1: in upstate New York. Isn't it true? The murder weapon
22:24
Speaker 1: was found at the home of Kaitlin Armstrong. Right, So
22:29
Speaker 1: in the arrest warrant it says it's Strickland's home, but
22:31
Speaker 1: we you know, we can kind of assume that they
22:33
Speaker 1: were living boyfriends. She lived there too, and they they
22:37
Speaker 1: identified this weapon. Strickland had purchased it for her a
22:40
Speaker 1: few months earlier. They thought it was very significant to
22:43
Speaker 1: the case, and they recovered it. So they got it
22:45
Speaker 1: and I made a ballistics match. By now, I'm sure
22:48
Speaker 1: and to you James shell joining me twenty seven years
22:51
Speaker 1: Metro major case. Now lawyers Shellnut Law Firm. The fact
22:55
Speaker 1: that's found at her home means it was taken from
22:58
Speaker 1: the crime scene and left the air. And you have
23:02
Speaker 1: evidence of flight. For instance, I'm at a murder scene,
23:07
Speaker 1: I hear a police siren and I take off running.
23:10
Speaker 1: That should tell a jury that I'm up to no good.
23:14
Speaker 1: I mean, of course, the jury can do what they
23:15
Speaker 1: want to, but evidence of flight, it's very powerful. James
23:19
Speaker 1: shell nutt Oh, yeah, you know, we tend to get
23:21
Speaker 1: laser focused in and for and for good reason, get
23:24
Speaker 1: laser focused on the evidences left at the scene matching
23:26
Speaker 1: this ballistic. You know whose gun is it, But the
23:29
Speaker 1: totality of the circumstances is huge in this situation. She
23:34
Speaker 1: hasn't motive. It's her gun that was used, it's her
23:37
Speaker 1: vehicle that was outside. And when they find this lady,
23:40
Speaker 1: she runs and fleas out of state. Nothing but elbows
23:44
Speaker 1: and tailhole. As I like to tell the jury takes off.
23:48
Speaker 1: You see nothing but her rear end running in the distance.
24:06
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace back to you, Jason Jensen
24:14
Speaker 1: joining me, Private investigator Salt Lake City. I understand, is
24:18
Speaker 1: it you or Ruise that is reporting a witness at
24:23
Speaker 1: this camp ground of state New York spots Caitlyn Armstrong
24:29
Speaker 1: there with her sister. That is all the credit of
24:31
Speaker 1: Michael Ruise going deep dive in contacting camp Haven. What
24:37
Speaker 1: I reported to Mike as a tip was the fact
24:41
Speaker 1: that she obtained a You know that the sister obtained
24:44
Speaker 1: a license three days after Caitlin was last seen at
24:49
Speaker 1: the LaGuardia Airport. What the significance of all this actually
24:54
Speaker 1: means is that while everyone's looking for Caitlyn Armstrong from Texas.
25:00
Speaker 1: They're not looking for Christie Armstrong from New York. So
25:05
Speaker 1: that really should be an emphasis there amplified during this
25:11
Speaker 1: story is because that was the perfect way to blend
25:16
Speaker 1: back into the community that you're looking for somebody entirely different. Right.
25:20
Speaker 1: I got a question for you about that driver's license
25:23
Speaker 1: for a circle back to Michael joining some Fox News
25:25
Speaker 1: Digital Jason Jensen. When the sister Kristine got the new
25:28
Speaker 1: driver's license, did she just apply for it in the
25:31
Speaker 1: mail or did she have to go get another picture taken?
25:35
Speaker 1: And if she did get another picture taken, did she
25:37
Speaker 1: alter her appearance? Did she cut her hair? Did the
25:40
Speaker 1: sister dye her hair? Did she in some way alter
25:44
Speaker 1: her appearance to make so her sister, Caitlin Armstrong on
25:49
Speaker 1: the run could go more easily under the radar or
25:53
Speaker 1: was it a situation where you just write it in
25:55
Speaker 1: and they mail it to you. She would have to
25:58
Speaker 1: go to the Driver's Life Division to obtain a completely
26:03
Speaker 1: new identification because her last ID was a Texas ID,
26:08
Speaker 1: and so for her to be at a camp in
26:10
Speaker 1: New York State with their fugitive sister out on the run,
26:15
Speaker 1: there's really little reason for somebody in New York at
26:19
Speaker 1: a camp to go get a driver's license in your
26:23
Speaker 1: state of New York unless you're established residency. But who
26:27
Speaker 1: has a residence listed as a camp nobody? You know though,
26:31
Speaker 1: to Michael Ruise, thing, it's not just a camp, camp, haven, compound,
26:37
Speaker 1: it's actually haven for humanity. And she was there either
26:42
Speaker 1: employed or as a volunteer in communications. Okay, Michael Ruise,
26:46
Speaker 1: let me give the credit that your due. You go
26:49
Speaker 1: up there, and there is a witness that spots her
26:53
Speaker 1: reportedly there that spots Caitlin Armstrong tell me the whole thing.
26:57
Speaker 1: All right, Well, first I want to give some credit
26:59
Speaker 1: to step Pagonis, my colleague at Fox News Digital, because
27:01
Speaker 1: she was the one who actually met this witness. Um. Wow,
27:05
Speaker 1: she's awesome, he's great. You've met her. And she was
27:08
Speaker 1: up there and and met this witness who basically confronted her.
27:12
Speaker 1: At the end of the edge, there's the private road
27:15
Speaker 1: going up to this camp site, camp ground, or if
27:17
Speaker 1: you want to call it, compound. They describe themselves as
27:19
Speaker 1: a holistic, uh renewable camp site. Um, it seems to
27:25
Speaker 1: be there. They're very into organic food. They grow a
27:27
Speaker 1: lot of food. They also own a an organic market
27:31
Speaker 1: in town nearby. So it's it's it's like a retreat.
27:34
Speaker 1: It's a place where you can be in undisturbed nature.
27:38
Speaker 1: It's very beautiful and very remote. It's beautiful and they
27:42
Speaker 1: you know, and they seem to be self sufficient. If
27:44
Speaker 1: you look on their social media, they're they're building a
27:47
Speaker 1: lot of structures themselves. They're doing a lot of farming themselves,
27:49
Speaker 1: They're doing a lot of carpentry work themselves. So it's
27:52
Speaker 1: it's kind of a it seems, you know, I almost
27:54
Speaker 1: want to call it like a commune type place. I
27:56
Speaker 1: don't think that's specifically what it is, but it's a
27:58
Speaker 1: self sufficient sort of a way to be off the
28:00
Speaker 1: grid and in nature. So back to the As much
28:03
Speaker 1: as I like talking about organic food and being off
28:06
Speaker 1: the grid, can I get back to the witness? Right?
28:09
Speaker 1: So right on the road going up to this campground,
28:12
Speaker 1: there's a man there. He looks like someone who works there,
28:16
Speaker 1: but I'm not sure. He identified himself as a long
28:19
Speaker 1: term camper, and he thought as he saw Caitlyn, he
28:22
Speaker 1: saw us Marshalls after Caitlyn had come and gone, and
28:25
Speaker 1: he said that this happened before it all blew up,
28:30
Speaker 1: before everything went crazy. So that lines up with the
28:34
Speaker 1: timeline of her going to LaGuardia Airport, which is about
28:37
Speaker 1: two and a half hours away. And that was before
28:40
Speaker 1: things blew up, that was before there was a nationwide
28:42
Speaker 1: man hunt for Caitlyn Armstrong. Okay, wait a minute, White
28:45
Speaker 1: a minute, Wait a minute, Wait a minute. Let's get
28:47
Speaker 1: the timeline down as best as we can. I would
28:49
Speaker 1: think she flew from Texas probably, I think it was
28:55
Speaker 1: Hobby to LaGuardia. She got there on the fort tenth.
29:01
Speaker 1: Then I think that's when she hooked up with a sister,
29:06
Speaker 1: because then she was spotted back at Newark, you know what,
29:09
Speaker 1: ten fifteen miles away in Jersey on the eighteenth, Right,
29:13
Speaker 1: So wouldn't you place her there between the fourteenth and
29:17
Speaker 1: the eighteenth, now? I would? I know that for it
29:20
Speaker 1: had to be after the fourteenth, right, And now did
29:22
Speaker 1: she go back to the camp after visiting Newark? That
29:24
Speaker 1: we don't know. That's something we haven't been able to
29:26
Speaker 1: pin down because the witness didn't have an exact date
29:29
Speaker 1: on when he saw her other than it was before
29:32
Speaker 1: everything kicked up. Now the eighteenth, they were looking for
29:36
Speaker 1: her by then, the warrant came out around then, So,
29:40
Speaker 1: but had the story gained enough traction where everybody would
29:42
Speaker 1: recognize her at that point. That's kind of what we
29:45
Speaker 1: don't know in terms of what was going on in
29:48
Speaker 1: the ground over there. So this guy who is a
29:51
Speaker 1: long term camper, tell Stephanie Pogonis, your colleague at Fox Digitel,
29:58
Speaker 1: that Caitlin arms Strong was there at Camp Haven up
30:03
Speaker 1: in Livingston, Manor, New York. It's a compound, an organic
30:08
Speaker 1: renewable source compound beautiful. I've seen it before everything blew up. Well,
30:18
Speaker 1: I think that means before it hit the news, before
30:23
Speaker 1: he heard about it. I still say it had to
30:25
Speaker 1: be after the shooting. What about it to Jason, Jason,
30:29
Speaker 1: what do you make of this timeline? It's clear that
30:32
Speaker 1: she wants to flee the state so that she's not
30:34
Speaker 1: going to meet an immediate arrest. She knows it's coming,
30:38
Speaker 1: That's why she takes off. She's looking for assistance. She
30:41
Speaker 1: goes up to New York State to have help from
30:44
Speaker 1: her sister. It's, you know, following the old future, the textbook.
30:48
Speaker 1: So when do you place her there the best of
30:51
Speaker 1: your calculations, Jason, Well, what puts her there is the
30:54
Speaker 1: fact that it was widely reported by the Marshall Service
30:58
Speaker 1: that she was seen at LaGuardia. That's what led me
31:01
Speaker 1: to look in New York and then to see an
31:03
Speaker 1: address from her sister, you know, just puts it up.
31:06
Speaker 1: That's why she's there. Guys. Take a listen to our
31:09
Speaker 1: cut thirty three, our friends at the US Marshall Service
31:13
Speaker 1: speaking to News Nation. She suspected of committing murder, and
31:18
Speaker 1: so in a case like that, she may be getting
31:20
Speaker 1: more desperate, and as she does that, she becomes more dangerous.
31:26
Speaker 1: And so our intent is to find her as quickly
31:31
Speaker 1: as we can and to bring her into custody. You know,
31:35
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum found a director Coal Case Research Institute. I see,
31:39
Speaker 1: really at this point only two choices either that close
31:43
Speaker 1: to the Canadian border. I mean, it is so easy
31:47
Speaker 1: to cross over. You have to go through an official
31:50
Speaker 1: border crossing as a matter of factual. Take a listen
31:53
Speaker 1: to our friends at CBC News cut thirty four. A
31:56
Speaker 1: Bloxham Rhode has first become the busiest illegal cross into Canada.
32:01
Speaker 1: This year, almost twelve thousand made the track. Border running
32:05
Speaker 1: in the Champlain Valley is not new Plattsburgh was part
32:10
Speaker 1: of the underground railway for American slaves making their way
32:13
Speaker 1: north to Canada. There's over five hundred kilometers of frontier
32:17
Speaker 1: where New York, New Hampshire, and Vermont butt up against Canada,
32:22
Speaker 1: and Roxham Road isn't the only place people jump the border.
32:26
Speaker 1: We can actually get up to the border in Patrol
32:27
Speaker 1: East and West. Brad Brandt is a supervisor with the
32:31
Speaker 1: US Border Patrol. He's brought us to another spot in
32:35
Speaker 1: Vermont where people are also border jumping. This road comes
32:39
Speaker 1: in from Canada, stops right here with this barrier that
32:41
Speaker 1: one of the local residents put up. So they drive
32:44
Speaker 1: along this road. Yeah, top over the logs and they're
32:48
Speaker 1: in Canada. So we've had people just like at the
32:51
Speaker 1: Roxham Road, We've had people that fly into JFK, take
32:55
Speaker 1: a bus to Burlington, take a taxi from Burlington to
32:58
Speaker 1: this location and literally just stepped across logs and you're
33:03
Speaker 1: in Canada. So Cheryl, I see two things. One, she's
33:07
Speaker 1: right there with Canada within throwing distance. She either did
33:11
Speaker 1: that going with her sister's ID, her sister goes and
33:15
Speaker 1: gets a new ID, or she takes sister's ID and
33:19
Speaker 1: she heads out from Newark International Airport too, you know,
33:25
Speaker 1: climbs unknown. What do you think. I think that obviously
33:28
Speaker 1: she's got some help with transportation, because again, even when
33:32
Speaker 1: she landed in Lagory, the first time to get to
33:34
Speaker 1: that camp site is two and a half hours. She
33:36
Speaker 1: had to have a car to get to New Jersey.
33:40
Speaker 1: She had to have transportation. Again, she's either using somebody's
33:44
Speaker 1: uber or lived account, or she's got some way that
33:47
Speaker 1: she When our family lived in New York for so
33:52
Speaker 1: many years, we took trains everywhere, absolutely to get you,
33:56
Speaker 1: not necessarily to the back door of your camper. But
34:02
Speaker 1: there are how many Jackie ten train stations near Livingstone.
34:08
Speaker 1: They may be fifteen minutes away, they may be thirty
34:11
Speaker 1: minutes away, but she could get a ride from there.
34:14
Speaker 1: I think she's got help, Nancy. And there are trains
34:16
Speaker 1: going into Newark and LaGuardia. You just hop on one
34:21
Speaker 1: and you blend in with millions of people. Clear. But
34:25
Speaker 1: I still think she's got help because the way she's
34:28
Speaker 1: been able to maneuver without being on any public camera.
34:31
Speaker 1: Again and again, she's wearing white pants. She's not prepared
34:36
Speaker 1: to primitive camp and the yoga mat doctor Sherry Schwartz,
34:39
Speaker 1: forensic psychologists. It's a dead giveaway. I'm looking for a
34:43
Speaker 1: tall five eight one hundred and twenty five pound, blondish brown,
34:47
Speaker 1: curly haired yoga instructor and the everyone walks through with
34:51
Speaker 1: the yoga mat on her back. She's not really trying
34:54
Speaker 1: to hide, doctor Schwartz, She's not trying to hide. And
34:58
Speaker 1: that just shows the lack of insight and foresight that
35:03
Speaker 1: this woman has. Because this is what's important to you,
35:07
Speaker 1: and it's going to be a critical identifying feature. Anybody
35:11
Speaker 1: who knows about this case is probably doing double takes
35:14
Speaker 1: in the airport or anywhere in public that they see
35:17
Speaker 1: something young woman with a yoga mat on their back.
35:20
Speaker 1: Michael Ruist, what I mean? Fox these Digital We've got
35:23
Speaker 1: to get that driver's license photo the sister took when
35:29
Speaker 1: she went in to get her new driver's license coincidentally
35:32
Speaker 1: on May seventeen, and her sister's been in town from
35:35
Speaker 1: fourteen to eighteen. We've got to say if she altered
35:38
Speaker 1: her appearance in anyway. What do you think about that? Ruise? Well,
35:40
Speaker 1: I've been asking about it. I haven't able to get
35:42
Speaker 1: a copy of it myself, but if anyone is able to.
35:45
Speaker 1: I'm sure that it's the US Marshal, so they're probably,
35:48
Speaker 1: as usual, a few steps ahead of us and likely
35:51
Speaker 1: have a lot more information about where she might have
35:53
Speaker 1: gone next. What else do you know, Michael, What else
35:55
Speaker 1: do I know? Well? You know, I talked to people
35:57
Speaker 1: who grew up with Caitlin Armstrong of weeks ago, um,
36:01
Speaker 1: and I know a little bit about her background in Michigan,
36:04
Speaker 1: and it seemed to them that these allegations that she
36:07
Speaker 1: would shoot someone was completely shocking. And I kind of
36:11
Speaker 1: want to circle back to, you know, her personality, what
36:14
Speaker 1: she might have been like, because this is this information
36:17
Speaker 1: just seemed interesting to me, and it seems to contradict
36:21
Speaker 1: the idea that maybe she's never faced consequences before. I know,
36:25
Speaker 1: we have the botox, you know, skipped payment. But I
36:29
Speaker 1: when I was speaking of people who went to school
36:31
Speaker 1: with her and who knew her, it said she was popular.
36:33
Speaker 1: That says she was pretty, that said she was an athlete,
36:35
Speaker 1: And I said, oh, well she was part of that crowd.
36:37
Speaker 1: Was she like mean girls? And they said no, no,
36:39
Speaker 1: she was also really really nice. So that part of
36:43
Speaker 1: her background uh stands out in in a in a
36:47
Speaker 1: way that sort of makes this seem out of character
36:50
Speaker 1: if we're to believe that those accounts of her from
36:54
Speaker 1: the path. Yeah, that's really interesting to me because you
36:58
Speaker 1: would not expect a genuinely nice person all the way
37:01
Speaker 1: through high school. Because I really agree with Freud that
37:05
Speaker 1: your personality is set at about age four, and she
37:11
Speaker 1: was mean in hate linkniving I think would have manifested
37:15
Speaker 1: by high school. But what about the idea, doctor Sherry Swort,
37:18
Speaker 1: psychologists joining us of an obsessive love disorder? Well, absolutely,
37:24
Speaker 1: she could be obsessed with Strickland. Maybe you know, there
37:29
Speaker 1: would be a clue in perhaps other relationships that she's had.
37:33
Speaker 1: Is she jealous possessive, that sort of thing, or maybe
37:38
Speaker 1: it just drove her crazy that he was lying and
37:42
Speaker 1: clearly doing things behind her back and lying to her
37:46
Speaker 1: about it and to you. Doctor Jeffrey M. Jensen, Professor
37:49
Speaker 1: Forensic Pathology, Director of Autopsy and Forensic Services, University of
37:53
Speaker 1: Michigan Medical School, Doctor Jensen, what does the mode of
37:59
Speaker 1: the murder? I mean, tracking down Mariah Wilson like a
38:04
Speaker 1: bunny rabbit, trapping her in, entering someone else's apartment, trapping
38:10
Speaker 1: her in the bathroom, and shooting her multiple times. What
38:14
Speaker 1: does that tell you about her psyche? Well, I can't
38:18
Speaker 1: really respond to individuals psyches only to indicate that we
38:24
Speaker 1: talk about excessive mortality, successive injuries, and individuals who know
38:30
Speaker 1: another person or who have a psychological tendency with them.
38:35
Speaker 1: For example, excessive stab wounce to the face, for example,
38:40
Speaker 1: might indicate somebody knows the victim or a different number
38:44
Speaker 1: of different modalities of the injury the gunshot, wounds, stab blunds,
38:48
Speaker 1: blunt trauma, etc. Could also point to some kind of
38:53
Speaker 1: a psychological attachment to the decedent or the victim. And
38:57
Speaker 1: attachment doesn't necessarily mean you love them. You could hate them.
39:01
Speaker 1: That could be your consuming emotion is hate. I would
39:05
Speaker 1: agree with that. Yeah, of course, I'm just a JD.
39:08
Speaker 1: You're the MD. I'm just throwing it out there, you know.
39:11
Speaker 1: I want to go back to Jason Jensen, private an
39:13
Speaker 1: investigator joining us who figured out the whole connection with
39:17
Speaker 1: sister Christine. Jason, what do you think is going on
39:22
Speaker 1: right now? Well, as far as what is going on
39:25
Speaker 1: with Caitlin right now, she's on the run. We don't
39:28
Speaker 1: know where she's at. Somebody out there will eventually spot her,
39:32
Speaker 1: somewhere because we're revealing what little dark secret she and
39:37
Speaker 1: her sister cooked up to hide her identity and let
39:40
Speaker 1: her blend in. Because really nobody was looking for a
39:45
Speaker 1: Christine Armstrong from New York. So you know, she could
39:49
Speaker 1: pass all the ideas around that she wants. No one
39:52
Speaker 1: would even do a double take. And with that id
39:56
Speaker 1: you know, with that idea, she could start a whole
39:58
Speaker 1: life somewhere else. Yes, start all over again, all all
40:01
Speaker 1: of a sudden, she's dawned on her sister's career and
40:06
Speaker 1: everything and started a whole new life in a whole
40:09
Speaker 1: new direction. She doesn't even have to be a yoga instructor.
40:13
Speaker 1: She can be just a student. And you know, Michael Luise,
40:16
Speaker 1: she's not stuck with the idea of Christine Armstrong. What
40:22
Speaker 1: she gets somewhere and gets and gets settled. Do you
40:25
Speaker 1: know how fast you can get a fake idea? Mean,
40:27
Speaker 1: you can get him online in forty eight hours and
40:30
Speaker 1: they look pretty good. Oh yeah, you know, unless you're
40:33
Speaker 1: trying to travel internationally, you can get a pretty good
40:36
Speaker 1: fake idea. I mean, at any Hartender, there are fakes
40:41
Speaker 1: that scan and people can get in and drink when
40:43
Speaker 1: they're underage. It's not that out of the realm of possibility.
40:47
Speaker 1: One last thing, you know, Cheryl, we keep referring to
40:50
Speaker 1: her as yoga instructor on the run. Let's don't forget
40:53
Speaker 1: she wasn't afraid to point the barrel and pull the
40:58
Speaker 1: trigger multiple times on a six hour and gunned this
41:03
Speaker 1: girl down in cold blood, unarmed, trapped in a bathroom.
41:08
Speaker 1: Neighbors say they think she had a silent sloon. I
41:11
Speaker 1: don't think we should underestimate this woman. I don't either,
41:13
Speaker 1: and I tell you I've heard you say so many
41:16
Speaker 1: times to a jury. She got the gun, she walked
41:22
Speaker 1: to her car, She drove and stalked. This woman, waited on.
41:28
Speaker 1: This woman broke into somebody's house, cornered this poor victim,
41:34
Speaker 1: and emptied a nine millimeter into her. And at no
41:38
Speaker 1: time during any of that did she stop and change
41:42
Speaker 1: her mind and do the right thing. At no point
41:46
Speaker 1: did she look down at her hand with that gun
41:48
Speaker 1: in it and say, my God in Heaven, what am
41:51
Speaker 1: I doing. We wait as justice unfolds tipline. There's a
41:57
Speaker 1: five thousand dollar reward. Eight hundred three three six zero
42:01
Speaker 1: one zero two repeat, eight hundred three three six zero
42:06
Speaker 1: one zero two, Goodbye SA