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Martin Luther King III: The Dream Lives On – Honoring MLK Jr.’s Legacy | E93 · In Search Of Excellence

• 0:00
  Martin Luther King, III: We certainly listen with our ears, but we hear with our heart.
• 0:07
  Martin Luther King, III: So whenever I hear I probably only heard that dream speech, maybe 100 times I've listened 1000s I could recite it, some of it backward and forward. But I'm not always hearing it. Whenever I hear those 100 or so times I've heard it. I've shed tears, even to this moment. If I'm mean, I could listen to it right now, but it wouldn't necessarily be hearing it. But whenever I stop and hear it, it reduces me to tears.
• 0:42
  Randall Kaplan: Welcome to a search of excellence where we meet entrepreneurs, CEOs, entertainers, athletes, motivational speakers, and trailblazers of excellence with incredible stories from all walks of life. My name is Randall Kaplan. I am a serial entrepreneur, venture capitalist and a host of In Search of Excellence, which I started to motivate and inspire us to achieve excellence in all areas of our lives. My guest today is Martin Luther King, the third.
• 1:07
  Randall Kaplan: Martin is a human rights activist, advocate and philanthropist. And as the oldest son and oldest living child of civil rights icons, Dr.
• 1:13
  Randall Kaplan: Martin Luther King Jr. and Coretta Scott King. For the past five decades, Martin has continued his parents legacy by dedicating his life to equality, social justice, and nonviolent activism and his honor that activism through his dedication on human rights, voting access, gun violence prevention, and race relations among other important social causes. He has a champion for the underserved communities and has led initiatives, including the King Center for nonviolent social change, and he has also been awarded the Roselle parks Award and the lantern of Peace Award.
• 1:48
  Randall Kaplan: Martin, it's an incredible pleasure to have you on my show.
• 1:51
  Randall Kaplan: Welcome to In Search of Excellence.
• 1:53
  Martin Luther King, III: Thank you appreciate having the opportunity to share. I always
• 1:57
  Randall Kaplan: start my show with our family because from the moment we're born, our family helped shape our personalities, our values, and our future. You were born among Comrie, Alabama, and you moved to Atlanta when you were young. I think it's safe to say that nearly every person in the world knows who your dad was, and knows that he was one of the greatest, most influential, and most famous civil rights activists ever to live, and is also a hero to billions of people around the world including me. But I don't think many people know what kind of Dad Your father was. He tells what he was like as a dad. And as part of this. Can you tell us about why he went from playing football and baseball outside and going to the YMCA on Butler Street and going swimming there to having to play inside and play ping pong and pool?
• 2:39
  Martin Luther King, III: Certainly I'm I'm honored to share that information. I think the first part of the question was Who was he as as a father. And quite frankly, I was 10 years old when dad was killed. So I only knew him as dad. And he was like our playmate, he would come home from being on the road he traveled. It felt like daily.
• 3:04
  Martin Luther King, III: But certainly every week, several days a week he would be traveling somewhere in our nation. But when he came home, he wanted to devote his energies toward satisfying his four children. So there were times when we would toss the football or baseball and sometimes playing basketball in the backyard. But emotionally, we played in the front. At a certain point his notoriety became so significant that if he was out with us as His children, people would just stop and come and want to talk to him ask questions, get his attention, and he didn't want that to happen. He wanted to always be available to people. But more importantly, he wanted to devote his time since he knew he was gone quite frequently. He had a large, little little quantity of time, but he wanted the quality to be remarkable for his children. So we ended up going inside and having to play inside. Dad was a good pool player. So we eventually got a pool table taught us how to play pool. Now when we went to the YMCA that it was no problem my brother and I would go with him every week to the YMCA where he taught us how to swim. And we just had a ball but he I want to share this one incident because maybe you paints a picture. I remember when he was on his way home, he pull in the driveway and get out of the car and he was walking up the stairs. And I remember him looking like he was just exhausted. Like he was carrying the weight of the world. He was like pulling two ton balls on his legs. Up the stairs. And then when he got up the stairs and when the door open and he saw us all of a sudden his energy came over views like, you know. And because again, he wanted to make sure that he could give us all the energy that he had. And it was like Daddy's home, Daddy's home, and we were just, you know how to kiss him. And it was it was remarkable.
• 5:21
  Randall Kaplan: When you went out of the house with him, would people actually follow you around? And would they follow you in the car? Or when you were took walks in the neighborhood?
• 5:28
  Randall Kaplan: Could you take walks in the neighbor? Oh,
• 5:29
  Martin Luther King, III: I don't remember us doing that much. We used to ride bicycles. And people always would, would speak. So when we rode our bicycles. We didn't really.
• 5:41
  Martin Luther King, III: People didn't necessarily follow us. But they always in the neighborhood. Of course, they knew him. So they wanted to speak to him. And the rarely did we stop, we would just ride our bikes and come back home. I don't remember us walking much.
• 5:56
  Martin Luther King, III: After
• 5:56
  Randall Kaplan: after moving to Atlanta, when you were a kid you are horrifically and constantly bullied as a kid. He tell us about one of your bullies and his incredible battleship drawing. And what you said to him that made him stop. And what's your advice? All the parents out there? His kids are being bullied? What should they be telling their kids?
• 6:16
  Unknown: You know, it's a new, I'm going to hopefully answer that on the backhand. Just let me share the story. When I went to we were the first African American kids to integrate our school in Atlanta, which was called Spring Street School. And one of the young men who seemed to be a lot bigger than me as a kid, you know. And he was he would go through a lot of different gyrations. Sometimes we go up and hit his hands against the wall hit his head.
• 6:52
  Unknown: So he, I don't know what he was dealing with. But I knew there were some issues. He did not like the fact that we as black kids were at the school. So he actually, you know, upset, you know, why are these the N word?
• 7:08
  Unknown: Why are they here at our school, this is our school. And he used to be pretty disenchanted just because black people were at a school. We used to play dodgeball, and he seemed like he would try to destroy, you know, there were only a few blacks at the school. And so, one day he was actually he was very talented artist, as probably was in third or fourth grade. And he was drawing a battleship, and it was to perfection with the guns on the ship everything. And I asked him, I said, Well, what does that know what it was? What does that battleship? He never, never looked up. I said, you know that that's, that's pretty good. He didn't looked up, he said, You think so. And so, at that point, there seemed to be a different kind of relationship developing. And ultimately, it felt like he became more kind to me because I had extended a kindness to him. And so he was reacting to something that may have been going on in his family life, you know, I think children on their own are fine. Today, we're at a different place, because technology creates all kinds of things that are not good. And I think that we have to develop a real system to address willing I mean, tragically, kids are, are, are committing suicide. In fact, my daughter's 15 years old and one of her friends growing up just recently committed suicide, not because of bullying, I don't really know what the issue is mental health is a real issue in our society. And we've been slow in my judgment to address it.
• 9:00
  Unknown: Thank goodness, now we're finally doing it. It's never too late. But we are late in the in the game we should have some years ago put systems in place.
• 9:06
  Unknown: And maybe that would have helped to minimize even bullying. But I think we have to teach civility we have to teach, you shouldn't automatically assume we're going to know how to how to treat our fellow human beings. It's clear to me that there are so many forces out there, that show and children, all of our children will sort of try to manipulate us as parents is as you as you know. Every day they just try this, let's see how far I can go. But that's the same thing that they're doing to their of fellow colleagues or their students. And we I think when we change the environment, we change the tone and tune. We change the messaging, then we probably can have an opportunity to address something like bullying in a constructive way.
• 10:56
  Randall Kaplan: So you're a parent. Now, you have your own children. So what's your advice to parents whose kids are being bullied, I was bullied, I stuttered. Everyone made fun of me, I didn't have a lot of friends. I come home crying daily from school, and my mom would say to me, you're going to be okay. All the cool kids now that are making fun of you are not going to be so cool when you get older. And it turns out, by the way, she was 1,000,000%.
• 11:23
  Randall Kaplan: Right. But it didn't really make it that much easier at the time.
• 11:27
  Randall Kaplan: I mean, having the support of my mom definitely did. But it still is very tough. So what's your advice to the parents out there whose kids are being bullied today? So support?
• 11:38
  Martin Luther King, III: I think the ideal scenario is somehow we have to work to build a strong foundation within our children, because of you know who you are.
• 11:47
  Martin Luther King, III: It's not an easy task, by the way. But even with our own daughter, who has a lot of things going on, she still has certain insecurities, and I think is exacerbated by social media. The competition or the worth, somehow, a parent has to really ground their their child, I don't know if there is something other than, you know, the the teaching in the school system, that every child is different. And I don't know that we do that in schools. I mean, stuttering is not something that one should laugh at. But maybe some have done that. Now, some people, and some have made fun of a lot of people. And as you say, there's something about some children that overcome, and it's no issue. There are others who don't overcome and may engage in tragic behavior, like attempting suicide. So we got to find a way to get it under control. Again, though, I think the first and primary issue is parents must do all that they can to fortify, you have to figure out how to afford a fight my child, and give them the ability to have a resilience factor. And my father used to do this sermon and talk about resilience. He said, You know, you have to be able to been as branches do when winds and storms come, but they don't break because they have that resilience, quality. It is very difficult to put to him to, to actually institute that. But that is probably part of the answer. I mean, I'm sure they have more things. But I mean, I every day, we have to re attempt to fortify our daughter. How
• 13:52
  Randall Kaplan: old were you when you realize that your dad was a big deal and was doing great things and before his assassination? Did you really know and understand what he was doing and what his mission was?
• 14:02
  Martin Luther King, III: Very good question. I would have to say that. It probably truly dawned on me at the time of his assassination. I certainly knew it because people were in and out of our home, whether it was reporters who were following him, whether it was young civil rights leaders, like John Lewis, Stokely Carmichael, Julian Bond just to name a few entertainers like Harry Belafonte, Sidney Poitier, Sammy Davis,
• 14:36
  Randall Kaplan: they're just coming out of the house. Yeah.
• 14:38
  Randall Kaplan: Hey, guys, um, yeah, they were,
• 14:40
  Martin Luther King, III: they weren't really hanging out. They were doing constructive things, but they weren't living out of our home. Whether you were meeting with dad
• 14:47
  Randall Kaplan: in the kitchen in the living room,
• 14:49
  Martin Luther King, III: I mean, your would be the generally it was the living room. Sometimes it would be the kitchen. It just depended on what was going on.
• 14:56
  Martin Luther King, III: And and sometimes we were not allowed to really interact. We were always allowed to say hello, and sometimes listen, but some of the issues were so I guess, significant at the time that a child needed to be sheltered. So my mom would have the four of us doing some other things. But I guess subconsciously, is what I'm saying. I knew but it was not until when dad was killed. And this huge group of people came to our home. Every person who was running for the president of the United States came to pay their respects at dad's funeral.
• 15:36
  Martin Luther King, III: You know, Robert Kennedy was running for president. So Robert Kennedy and Ethel Kennedy Jackie Onassis, along with Ted Kennedy and in his den wife Joan. The Vice President United States came to the field Normal. The governor of New York Governor Nelson Rockefeller, and maybe one of his brothers, many actors and actresses from out here, Wilt Chamberlain? Well, everybody, he was just all this gathering, seven footer. But you know, just I believe Charlton Heston. Marlon Brando a number of people who have done things with that, and they all show up in Atlanta, Bill Cosby, and Robert Koch, and we're in I Spy at the time. And Bill Cosby said, you know, when he came and visited with Mom, I'll spend some time with the children. And so he gave us some comforting words, that I wish I could remember them better. But, you know, that's when I knew firmly that the work that dad was doing was quite, you know, I would say revolutionary, but at the time, you know, I had to later on come back and listen to many of his speeches and sermons because I heard a lot of them when I was young, but I wasn't really focused and paying attention.
• 17:06
  Martin Luther King, III: And so to go back and listen to, you know, the speech on why he opposed the war in Vietnam from a moral perspective, to go back and listen to I have a dream I've listened to I have a dream, probably 1000s of times, I haven't always heard it. And I'll say it this way. I've learned through talking to others, and some experiences that, you know, we certainly listen with our ears, but we hear with our heart. So whenever I hear I probably only heard that I Have a Dream speech.
• 17:43
  Martin Luther King, III: Maybe 100 times I've listened 1000s I could recite it, some of it backward and forward. But I'm not always hearing it. Whenever I hear those 100 or so times, I've heard it, I've shed tears, even to this moment, if I mean, I could listen to it right now, but it wouldn't necessarily be hearing it. But whenever I stop and hear it, it reduces me to tears. And I guess what I'm saying is in our society, if we could listen and hear the hearts of people, we probably could change our society dramatically, because what has happened is civility has left temporarily, the public discourse space. And, you know, we we want to counsel people instead of saying, you know, I don't I don't know if I agree with that. But here's some areas where we can agree, as opposed to saying, Wait, you're out. You're done. We're going to cancel you. That is counterproductive. That is, that's very tragic. That is not a winnable scenario. We have we want to, we should want to create a win win scenario.
• 18:51
  Martin Luther King, III: scenario in our society. This
• 18:53
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• 19:48
  Martin Luther King, III: So absolutely. Dad, it felt like would travel. Often many days and back then it seemed that you could go to a destination and come back within the same day.
• 20:03
  Martin Luther King, III: And so we were early in the morning, he may even leave before we went to school, certainly before we were up 6am You know, he may be gone. He might be back by seven or eight at night. And some days he was gone, you know, a few days at a time. So I would say that 80% of the time that he travelled maybe 75 My mom was not with him. I think it was only, you know 15% or so when they would travel together. Although he was constantly speaking with her on the I'm told her stories that wherever he would go he would seek her advice and counsel because what people don't realize they met at and in Boston in the early days. 50s They were one what dad was at Boston University and mom was at Boston, Boston, the Boston Conservatory of Music. She was getting her Master's, he was working on his PhD. And they met one day. And their first meeting was like seven hours just of talking, mom had already been exposed to the peace movement and been involved in peace had read a lot of the books that he had read. And I think they, there was synergy there. And they, as I said, you know, you meet someone and you speak six hours, that usually doesn't happen six to seven hours. But that, also, dad would say that it was mother who really had been out in front in terms of advocating for peace before he actually got started. He had been the, you know, preparing himself, intellectually and in terms of academically, but she actually had gone to demonstrations. So my point is, at some point, when mom decided, okay, that she was very upset initially about moving back to the south, his dad was called his first church, in Montgomery, and in his mind, you know, I want to take this opportunity, because it's a very good church.
• 22:14
  Martin Luther King, III: And I'm not going to have to live in the shadows of my grandfather was bigger than life. Everyone in Atlanta knew that. And so he didn't necessarily want to, he wanted to establish himself. So he, he thought he was going away going to Montgomery, being in an obscure place, a smaller city, but yet he could kind of, you know, become his own person. He had no idea that he was it was going to be it was going to thrust him into the minds of the public by having to become the leader of the, you know, the whole Montgomery movement when Miss Rosa Parks sat down on a bus and, you know, the community chose him. He was like, No, I don't know if I want to do this, the community and of course, his belief, deep calling with God is connection, that he had to pray about it and knew Okay, I will accept, because there were other ministers, even his, his close friend, Dr. Ralph Abernathy, who had been in Montgomery, already in established, but the community wanted dad's leadership. And so he became the leader. In a sense, one of the leaders I should say, of the modern Civil Rights Movement, because of his devotion to the philosophy of non violence, his exposure to Mohandas K, Gandhi, and others, and, of course, his traditional Christian tradition of, and being a pastor himself.
• 23:41
  Martin Luther King, III: And so he did assume that role, and then he was thrust on a bigger stage becoming times man of the year a couple of times, coupled with three times later on, you know, being chosen as the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, the youngest person at that time, and so on. So,
• 24:08
  Randall Kaplan: I want to talk about one of your earliest memories as a child, which came after your parents had moved to Atlanta, when you were very young. How old? were you when you saw a cross burning on your front lawn? And what were you thinking that exact moment? What did your dad tell you when you saw it?
• 24:26
  Martin Luther King, III: You know, the interesting thing is I, the the only reason I even remember that incident is because of pictures. I don't remember what was said I probably was, maybe three and a half is
• 24:38
  Randall Kaplan: a picture of you standing in front of them running cross,
• 24:41
  Martin Luther King, III: yeah, but I was like, three and a half or so. So I don't really remember, later on. What I sought to remember was, you know, this is the behavior of people that do not want us to exist or want us to be here. And it's it's bigger than unfortunate. I don't remember the actual conversation. I just remember I don't again, I remember the incident just because of the picture. I what I do remember was the house where we stayed. And I remember that was that was in Atlanta knew where the President Carter's library is in the house is no longer there. And we live there from 1960 to 65. And then we move to a location of the home that my mom lived in for 40 years and it's now still there in Atlanta. But dad lived there from 65 till his death. So I have more memories of that, but I don't remember those early I wish I could tell you what he told me. Things are gonna be all right. I'm sure he comforted us But I don't remember the specific language.
• 25:56
  Randall Kaplan: We're going to talk about your dad's assassination in a few minutes.
• 25:57
  Randall Kaplan: But before we do, I want to talk about the extreme and constant danger he faced. Before that which I think most people don't really know about. There were around a dozen attempts made on his life, including several bombings in targeted locations where he was supposed to appear.
• 26:14
  Randall Kaplan: People often called your house and use the N word, and told you that if he didn't move in five days, they were going to kill your family. He was physically assaulted on multiple occasions while leading protests and marches. He was hit shoved, had objects thrown at him, and it was twice stabbed once near fatally in 1958, the year after you were born in 10 years before he was assassinated. More specifically, from 1965 to 1968.
• 26:41
  Randall Kaplan: In the three plus years prior to his death, the FBI recorded over 2300 documented threats on his life. Were you aware of the constant danger he was in? Or did you all constantly live in fear? And how did he deal with this constant danger? And what did it teach you about courage?
• 27:01
  Martin Luther King, III: So I would have to say that I don't, certainly not consciously subconsciously, because the phone calls. I was not born in 55. When our home was born, I was wom excuse me, over 56 I'm trying to remember down losing the day. But my because I was not born in 5756 I believe a bomb was thrown at the home in Montgomery,
• 27:32
  Randall Kaplan: Molotov cocktail.
• 27:33
  Martin Luther King, III: I think it was a bomb, that fully detonate, okay, you know, only it was dynamite, and maybe a half a stick or something. But whatever reason, if it had detonated, it would have probably destroyed the whole house. What when it hit the porch, my mother and whom would whoever was with her. She was with my sister Yolanda. And they got up and ran to the back of the house. But fortunately, it created a big hole on the porch, but it didn't blow up the home.
• 28:04
  Martin Luther King, III: So that happened to our family.
• 28:04
  Martin Luther King, III: And, and then of course, when I was born, the year later 58, as you see a dad was stabbed. And he could have, he could have died. And I remember sort of more hearing about it. Because again, I was very, very young and didn't go to to New York, he was in New York doing a book signing and a deranged woman came up. And he subconsciously was saying this woman is something's not right. And before he knew it, she said, Are you Martin Luther King Jr. And your eyes were moving kind of rapidly. And then she took the letter opener and stabbed him.
• 28:46
  Martin Luther King, III: And had he sneezed. It was in his aorta, he would not have made it but fortunately, great doctors were able to remove the blade and any healed. Now what is interesting is he had because they the surgery, the way they did the surgery and sewed him up. It ended up being a cross on his chest. So every time he would disrobe and I would see his chest, I could see this, this cross, I didn't actually realize it until a later point.
• 29:22
  Martin Luther King, III: But that's kind of amazing that as a man of God, and instead of having to wear across, he already had one etched in his skin because of this, the stabbing. But your higher point, mother and dad did the best they could to shelter us from all of the perhaps potential difficulties. So I don't I don't think I consciously realize not consciously I'm sure my subconscious mind it was implanted, that this is dangerous. But you know, I'll give you an example. Dad and a lot of his colleagues would go to jail when there was something wrong. So as a kid, I thought, Okay, if you want to make something right, then you got to get a bunch of friends together and go to jail. Go
• 30:13
  Randall Kaplan: to visit the jail. No arrested. I think it's fear at time. Oh,
• 30:17
  Martin Luther King, III: he was arrested? Yeah, like like 40, almost 40 times. Okay. But my point is, he would go to jail for things that he felt were wrong, not because he had done something wrong, although he had broken the laws that were unjust, that he and others defined as unjust. So I thought that if you wanted to correct things that were wrong, then you you know, this is what I was really gotta go to jail. Dad's gonna go to jail and make it better follow us. And but I didn't see that. That did not create this fear that in the theory I could have had, my brother answered the phone and did hear. I don't remember picking up the phone and hearing the N word I, I heard it being discussed. But I never. I, in fact, always felt safe because we had a whole community of people who exhibited love to us.
• 31:08
  Martin Luther King, III: So I didn't, I didn't think about that. Until I was much older out, I'll say this, which is sort of interesting back in, you know, 60s, maybe even up to the 80s. The news would have special bulletins, the very first special bulletin that I focused on, was when dad was killed. So we were at home that April 4 Day of 1968. On Thursday, watching the evening news at about 705. And Walter concrete came on and announced Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Just been shot. And we ran back to mom and dad's room to get an explanation. And mom was preparing to go to Memphis to be by dad side. Because she had gotten a call from Ambassador Andrew Yang and Jesse Jackson.
• 32:04
  Martin Luther King, III: So she was headed to the airport when we ran back. And she course couldn't tell us much at that time. She did physically go to the airport. And when she got to the airport, the mayor of Atlanta, she'd gone to the restroom. And the mayor of Atlanta was walking toward her as she was headed to the gate.
• 32:24
  Martin Luther King, III: And he she said that in her mind. She knew the way he was walking and looking that she wasn't going to be positive news. And he's the one who told her that Mrs. King, I'm so sorry. To you, Dr. King didn't make it. So she came back home that night, and comforted Yolanda Dexter and myself, Bernice had gone to bed. And that conversation. Basically, she said something like, your father is going home to live with God. And he will not be able to kiss and hug you as he watched it. But we will one day see him again. And sometimes when God's servant serve Him, as your father did, he brings them home to be with him. And you know, there was a lot of conversation after that. I don't remember all of that. But I do remember those words which were comforting at the time. And then the next four days, five days.
• 33:35
  Martin Luther King, III: So that was Thursday, Friday, Saturday, I believe Saturday or so, Dad's remained for bought back on that went to Memphis to get them and we were at airport.
• 33:41
  Martin Luther King, III: And then Monday, April 9, or eighth, it might have been eighth. He was to lead a march in Memphis, parabolic Belafonte chartered a small jet. And we flew up to Memphis and she led that March. And we walked in Memphis, with the sanitation workers and she did a speech, and we came back to Atlanta and the next day, April 9, was his funeral. So what's amazing is to have had the courage to do that no one had been captured for dad's murder. I just remember when we arrived at the airport, the National Guardsmen surrounded us with the ghost, it was kind of a frightening thing.
• 34:34
  Martin Luther King, III: That was scary because they were there to protect us, but they had these bayonets that comes with the knives on them. And they, they were, I don't know, 20 or so who surrounded us. And as we moved around, it was I guess Dewar's military, it felt like everywhere to protect us.
• 34:50
  Martin Luther King, III: But I just marvel at that courage that mom had to go and continue dad's work in light of the fact and in my mind, at some point later on, that solidified the true kind of partnership they had, because most people during the grieving process would not be expected. Okay, this work is not done. This is what Martin would have wanted me to do.
• 35:20
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• 36:30
  Randall Kaplan: It is considered one of the first televised American political speeches, and is one of the most influential and well known speeches in history. It helped push us towards the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which was signed into law by President Lyndon B. Johnson on July 2 1964, the ACC outlawed major forms of discrimination against racial, ethnic, national and religious minorities, as well as women and also ended unequal voter registration requirements and segregation in schools, the workforce and public places. Did you go to the speech? And if not, how many times have you listened to it and watched it?
• 37:08
  Randall Kaplan: And what does it mean to you?
• 37:11
  Randall Kaplan: You said, it makes you cry when you hear it? Why does it make you cry every time? And what did you take from the speech? And how has it influenced your life?
• 37:21
  Martin Luther King, III: So first of all, I was not there.
• 37:25
  Martin Luther King, III: What I do remember, was excitement that existed, and the anticipation that this incredible demonstration was potentially going to bring people together, your dad, and Mom, we're always about how do we bring people together to creatively solve difficult issues. And it happened, because you had this large group of people who non violently, were demonstrating for citizenship with Civil Rights Act. And again, as you stated, labor, religious leaders have some entertainment from the entertainment community and blacks and whites. And, you know, they were every ethnic group. That was America and American citizen, many of them came that day. And I think that what dad prophesized, and galvanize was this message that everyone could relate to, and what you what he did was he took what is written in, you know, the, in the Constitution, Declaration of Independence, to consolidate all this information, and say, this should apply to everyone, not just one ethnic group of one person, or one gender, every human being, and, and then he was able to catapult it into this vision, that everyone it was like painting a picture, a perfect picture, foot, we haven't achieved, but we can't.
• 39:09
  Martin Luther King, III: And he used his children by saying, you know, one of the most profound segments, my four little children can live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. Well, he, he wasn't just talking about us, he was really talking about all children. And that resonated and resonates even to this day, you know, particularly when we're living in a nation where some are saying we need to extract certain parts of history and not teach them. We've always been a society of freedom. And people should have a right to read and maybe interpret and know full history. I mean, the there's old saying, of people that do not remember their history are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. And so we, as a society, want to kind of whitewash certain things. And that's just, it is sad that we've arrived at a place that is going backward as opposed to a place that is looking forward.
• 40:19
  Martin Luther King, III: The universe is moving forward, everything in society is moving forward. Humankind is saying, Oh, no, we got to go back. We got to stop. And I think that's personally I think it's counterproductive. Like for example, dad's last one is less message. One of the last messages that he delivered at the Riverside Church, I'm sorry, at the National Cathedral was maybe I believe, march like 30.
• 40:47
  Martin Luther King, III: If and he was killed April 4. It might have been the therapy first of March 1968, and the name of the speech was remaining awake through a great revolution. So now our society has taken being awake and said, Oh, we don't need to be awake, that's that's moving too fast or too far, or in the wrong direction it is against our values. Well, at some point we as a society have to modify, or else humankind may destroy itself. And that doesn't mean that you have to accept everything that somebody does, or you have to embrace it. But people have a right to do what they want to do as long as they're not hurting anyone else.
• 41:34
  Martin Luther King, III: And I think that we have now drawn a line in the sand that I think is, is moving us in a direction that, you know, is not productive. I think we need to keep having discussions. Again, we can always disagree. Dad taught us and mom how to disagree without being disagreeable. But today, we've lost that, because we go from zero to 100. If we disagree with someone, and we want to malign and, and denigrate, and destroy, as opposed to saying, as I said, or in an earlier briefly, you know, I don't know if I agree with that. But let's find some common ground. And maybe we can start to really build a real relationship, where we have common ground, we may not agree on 20 issues. But there's got to be one that we as human beings can agree, let's start there and build a bridge. 14
• 42:31
  Randall Kaplan: months after his I Have a Dream speech and 10 months after the Civil Rights Act was passed, your dad was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
• 42:37
  Randall Kaplan: He was 35 years old, the youngest person to receive that prestigious award at that time.
• 42:44
  Randall Kaplan: And he donated the 50,000 Plus prize that came with it to the civil rights movement. What did it mean to him? And what does it mean to you today?
• 42:54
  Martin Luther King, III: Well, I think it meant a validation of what he was attempting to create he and his team, and include, which includes my mom and our nation and world. And that is to create a just and peaceful society, where we could live together as brothers and sisters and friends and families. And so that designation sort of validated that he was on the right road. I think it also, it meant from dad, from dad's perspective, he was never engaged, to be validated, by the way, because in his mind, I'm doing the work that God has chosen me to do. This is what and if you want to stop me, you can do whatever you want to, to attempt to. But I'm gonna, that's not going to stop me from doing what I believe I need to do to create a better world for all of God's children. So, but again, the ward does. I mean, it does give you a significant validation, I forget how many persons have won the prize totally. But what dad and his team are doing was was quite profound. Because if you think about people who've gone to Vietnam, who and some and fought in World War, or one, two, and you know, some African Americans in all of these wars, some of those guys were munitions experts. So, and particularly after Vietnam, they could have come back and said, this society, I'm treated, they want me to fight for democracy around the world. I want to blow up some things here, because of what he talked about, and it's been lifted up. They chose to do, they chose not to do that.
• 44:52
  Martin Luther King, III: And, in a real sense, what he talked about and lived and wanted to create, perhaps helped to save our nation. Because if you had trained military persons deciding to do overthrow the country, it could be terrible.
• 45:13
  Martin Luther King, III: So you know, that his view was is always a better way to resolve conflict than to pick up arms. Not talking about personally, defending your space, or someone doing something doing something to you, but a group of people could have come together and said, you know, we got to do some real harm and had the expert training because of they were military munition specialists. So in a sense, I think that helped to save on our nation. And I also think that today that message is needed. Even more than then back then why I can't say more. But I can see it's equally needed today. We sort of turn away from that. Because if we had learned that dad used to say, we as a society must learn non violence, or we may face non existence.
• 46:08
  Martin Luther King, III: And it's feels like in some areas we're working on, not existing. And that's just not, that's not good. That's not good for our children, for generations yet unborn, we need to reflect something else than what we're reflecting today. As a society,
• 46:28
  Randall Kaplan: when family members or friends have children of loved ones who are murdered, most people have a lifetime of hate for the person who murdered their loved one. Your mom had a different view. What was her view? And what did she teach you about this? And what's your advice to those who have a lifetime of hate for people who have harmed our loved ones?
• 46:49
  Martin Luther King, III: So I, I think I'm in an unusual and unique position. And my, my, my, my family. What I mean by that is that, first of all, dad and mom taught us to forgive. When dad was killed, Dad was killed in 1968, April 4, as I've said, and it would have been easy to embrace hatred and hostility.
• 47:20
  Martin Luther King, III: But, you know, I had, I had I go to church and hear my father and grandfather, talk about the power of love and power, forgiveness. And so now, something visited us, which was the most traumatic experience of our lives. My grandfather and grandmother losing their son, my mother losing her husband, and the four of us losing a father.
• 47:47
  Martin Luther King, III: How do you handle that? And Mother's tradition. You know, she, she taught us to, to forgive, you know, non violence teaches you to dislike the evil act, but still love the individual. And so I but I had this example, these examples reinforced now, what many don't know, is a year after my father was killed my father's brother, my uncle mysteriously drowned.
• 48:13
  Martin Luther King, III: And then four years after that, my father's mother was assassinated in the church. She was the organist, a guy came in, pull out a gun, killed her and killed one of the Deacons in the church. So not only was my father but my grand mother and uncle in a very in like five years. And let me add this because I left it out. Back when I was growing up, especially bulletins would come on. This is some trauma that I personally had to overcome. And you'd back then it meant something you know, now every 30 minutes is a special bulletin. So you know, it doesn't mean you don't pay attention. It's just that they really meant something. It was a special bulletin when dad was killed when my uncle was mysteriously drowned. It came on special bulletin, you know, whatever made the King, the brother of Dr. Martin Luther King is just drown. Well, my grandmother was shot. I was Washington DC, special bulletin came over the intercom over the news channel. special bulletin, you had a Mrs. Martin Luther King senior has just been shot.
• 49:23
  Martin Luther King, III: So anytime I hear special bulletin for a number of years probably taught was in my 20s. I was like, I would cringe because I thought, oh, did something else happen to our family.
• 49:36
  Martin Luther King, III: That's the trauma that you experience when something is forecasted in the news, and you've experienced it two or three times, and 80 and 84. I was in one of one of the African countries. And I was traveling, I want to say Ethiopia, and it came across the radio that my grandfather had just had a heart attack. And fortunately, he didn't die. Then I was able to come back to Atlanta. And then a few weeks later, he did finally pass. So for a long time, the special bulletins had a traumatic meaning. I wanted to give that context just from a traumatic standpoint that I had to overcome. So my I remember, probably after my grandmother was killed, my grandfather went to the jail where the man who killed her was being held. And he said, Son, why did you kill my wife? Because he wanted to present to understand. This was 1974 dad was killed in 68. So six years later And the man looked at him and said, when I want to get out of here, I'm gonna come back and kill you.
• 50:56
  Martin Luther King, III: And my grandfather was very close to the sheriff. And the deputies, because they allow this guy to beat, he was chained. And they allowed him to go in there, and they very much loved my grandfather, grandpa, daddy had a big cane, my cousin and my brother accompanied him to the jail. And he could have taken that cane and, and hid.
• 51:26
  Martin Luther King, III: Actually, actually, I'm sure it wasn't in the jail, I think it was in the mental ward of the hospital, which has a like a sail area. And for those, and so they would not have minded if he had taken his cane and hit that man in the head, that would have been fine. It would have never been recorded, so much love ahead. But what granddad he did, and he said, Son, I'm gonna pray for you. Now, can you imagine saying I'm gonna pray for you, after you say, I just killed your wife, and I'm gonna come back and get you. So what that does is that validates, I believe in forgiveness, you know, and he went on further to say, he said, I refuse to allow any person to reduce me to hatred, the man had killed my lovely wife, nor the man that killed my son, I refuse to allow them to reduce me to hatred. I love everybody. I'm every man's brother. That was so powerful.
• 52:31
  Martin Luther King, III: Now, again, we had already been taught this in the home by Dad and Mom, earlier on. And then it was reinforced by going to church and Sunday school. And then it was thirdly, reinforced by granddad, his actions. And so, I'm not advocating that everybody has to do what I chose to do. But I can't imagine how hostile and bitter I would be if I was harboring hatred. And so I have to find a way to, to release and love. And no matter what one goes through in life, you can still overcome the people who have gone through even much further worse than what I'm experiencing. And yet, they have, there's a quality, that resilience, quality that you can't purchase. You, you know, if you say you have faith, you really have to turn to your faith and, and believe, and it's it is theirs, it doesn't mean it's easy. It's not. Yeah, I remember their communities, we see this in from time to time, I believe it was an Amish community some few years back.
• 53:45
  Martin Luther King, III: And some guy came in deranged and just had a gun and shot several and killed several children. And, you know, we don't we often what we hear in our society on the news mainstream, is we want to get revenge, we got to go and kill someone and we do it. We as a society have done this over and over and over as human. But when I see that kind of behavior, I was like, Oh, my God, they immediately or in a very short order, forgave this man. And they, they, I mean, it's just a very powerful example. I wish more of us could embrace that.
• 54:24
  Martin Luther King, III: But I understand if you don't, in other words, I could have my dad was killed by white men, my grandmother was killed by a black man. So I could have just hated everybody. But But what good does that really do in terms of fostering something that's positive, I want to always, I hope to always land on something as positive. And I'm not saying that that's what you or anybody has to do. I'm just saying, that's what's worked for me.
• 54:53
  Randall Kaplan: Let's talk about your name. Your dad always wanted you to have the same name as him. And when your parents named you, Martin Luther King, the third, your mom had some serious reservations about naming you after your famous father, because she realized the burdens it can create on a child. Did you feel that burden as a child? And do you feel it now? And if you didn't have your name, would you have dedicated your life to following in his footsteps? Or would you be doing something else?
• 55:19
  Martin Luther King, III: So first of all, again, I would have to say, maybe, subconsciously, I felt the challenges. I don't think consciously and here's what happened. My mom liberated me when I was a young man. She used to say, and I probably was in my teens. You don't have to go to Morehouse College where your father went, but I did. You don't have to become a minister, which I haven't thought out the call to the ministry, you don't have to be a human and civil rights leader which I have chosen to do. But just be your best self. And we will support you in every way we can. That was that was sort of freedom because if I A woke up attempting to be my father, every day and feel fulfilled, fill his shoes, I would fail miserably. And I would feel miserable. So my mom liberated me by saying that to me, and, and just be your the best Martin that you can be whatever that is. So it didn't mean that I had to go into follow him. But I chose to. Now I would like love to tell you Oh, absolutely. I'd be doing all that I'm doing if I had not grown up in an environment to see what I saw with my parents. But I don't know about that. I honestly don't know the answer to that. I would love to say, there's no question. Because of, of who I personally am as Martin, but quite frankly, maybe not.
• 56:55
  Randall Kaplan: When someone walks up to and they introduce yourself, you know, sometimes they Oh, I'm Randy, or I'm Martin. And you have to throw the last name in there sometimes, too. When people don't know you, and they say I'm Martin, do you say I'm Martin King? Or do you say Martin Luther King? And is there a reaction always like, well, who are you?
• 57:12
  Martin Luther King, III: Rarely?
• 57:12
  Martin Luther King, III: What happens more often than not is people come up and and say they they know but they don't want to say so they you you look like are you? And then I say yes. I'm Martin Martin King. And every now and then people say well, I know your face? Not right. Really? Quite sure. And and then I'll say, because I get good. It's oftentimes certain different people that I see you or your politician? No, I have been. Well, I know I've seen you but I'm not sure. And then I'll say Well, I'm Martin. That's right. I know. You know. So my highest point is I generally I've always been a I always wanted to be treated just like everyone else. And so I never really used my name as a calling card. But if because I have some level of notoriety, people come up every day. Oftentimes they'll speak and thank me for the work that you and your family have done. But I don't I it's rare to say Oh, I'm Martin Luther King that there unless there are certain circumstances where absolutely done that but that's rare.
• 58:34
  Randall Kaplan: Thanks for listening to part one of my amazing conversation with Martin Luther King, the third, the son of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
• 58:39
  Randall Kaplan: Be sure to tune in next week to part two of my awesome conversation with Martin