Latest / Dear Son, / Emotional Regulation for Fathers w Jason Schnitzer | Ep 168 | The Dear Son, Show #emotionaliq

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Emotional Regulation for Fathers w Jason Schnitzer | Ep 168 | The Dear Son, Show #emotionaliq · Dear Son,

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get it.
0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Dead Sun Show.
0:02
[SPEAKER_00]: We have meaningful conversations about life through the lens of Fatherhood.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It is four fathers, those with fathers and the fatherless, so nobody's left out.
0:10
[SPEAKER_00]: These are the conversations I want my sons to access as they grow through life in the manhood, so those topics are all for limits today.
0:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm your only host, but we got an amazing California guest today.
0:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Jason Schnitzer, welcome to the Dead Sun Show.
0:24
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you?
0:26
[SPEAKER_01]: big stare glad to be here and I'm great and it's an awesome thing that you're doing on this podcast really important messages and yeah just stuck to be here.
0:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Likewise man I saw your platform and I reached out to you because a lot of what you were posting and I primarily seen static posts I don't know if you do reals enough but you're just static posts were really speaking to a lot of what I've been trying to grow through.
0:51
[SPEAKER_00]: pretty much by where this platform.
0:53
[SPEAKER_00]: So the platform started to kind of ensure not the kind of to ensure I was having meaningful conversations with my son, because me and my father had, he was in my life, he was in the house, great father.
1:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I always got to say that, but he came from the school with love, me seeing not hurt, and then he lost his father when he was 20.
1:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So he didn't grow up as a man with a father.
1:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was some, that was some misses.
1:16
[SPEAKER_00]: In terms of conversations that we had to shudder had,
1:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why the platform started.
1:20
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's this and what I wish my father told me.
1:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And my father's a big fan.
1:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not, it's no shots at my father at all.
1:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But the things that you were talking about in terms of emotional and intelligence seems to be the throughline and a lot of what I see on your page.
1:36
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had it outside of the house.
1:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I demonstrated outside of the house because if you got it, you got it.
1:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Inside the house, I wasn't always tracking.
1:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to get into that, but I want to help the people understand kind of who you are, I want to brush you to like that being an important topic and sharing it with the public.
1:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
1:57
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think it's one of the biggest challenges matter facing today.
2:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Really is the example that we've had, whether it be in man's life of his dad or the dad's around him, or really just like in the TV show's movies, what society puts forward as kind of the example of how we should be and things that we should be doing.
2:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you do those things,
2:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think more and more now, guys are trying to really, really hard to check off all those boxes and a lot of them are and then still finding themselves unfulfilled, right, like you had mentioned, a version of, man, I'm like killing it at work, I'm doing all this stuff, but like when I go home,
2:45
[SPEAKER_01]: all of those ways of being and the things that I've built in my work life don't translate over to the relationships that I have with my wife and kids and it's one of the things that I think keeps guys up at night right and wakes them up in the middle of the night because it's like you spend so much time and effort working for one thing and it's seemingly the thing that you're
3:14
[SPEAKER_01]: in my wife and my family.
3:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the thing that kind of, you know, we carry all this stress and all this burden on ourselves and where all of it kind of comes out sideways is that home.
3:31
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's my belief that through a series of the way things are set up structurally and the lack of information and the lack of modeling and maybe even like the wrong kind of things being put in front of us that we're chasing.
3:46
[SPEAKER_01]: leaves it to where we are being tasked to do a job, where we're severely undereducated and underskilled.
3:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's my big belief that that one skill is basically being able to regulate your emotions.
4:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, how I came into that is just like I live my own version of that check enough boxes and things not going great at home and you know my example wasn't the best grown up and like to go full full circle and more about me I lost my dad
4:18
[SPEAKER_01]: when I was 29.
4:20
[SPEAKER_01]: So going into fatherhood, what the thing that I'm working through is like all of this stuff and then kind of doing it on my own, right, and not having somebody to share it with, balanced things back and forth with, etc.
4:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So all of that kind of put together has led me here.
4:40
[SPEAKER_00]: What were the family dynamics growing up?
4:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I mean, it was kind of like my parents were great in social situations, right?
4:51
[SPEAKER_01]: We were the sheneters, everybody looked at us.
4:53
[SPEAKER_01]: But at home, things just weren't the same.
4:56
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there wasn't a healthy get-a-long, not a whole lot of love between the two, and eventually it led to them splitting it up when I was in my late teenage years.
5:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's got any siblings?
5:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm one of four, and I'm the oldest.
5:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was sort of like, any bit that's the oldest child, and has parents who didn't get along a too much a lot of times, like I was like keeping the peace, if you will.
5:25
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like the adult child of my family, in a lot of ways.
5:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I actually, I'm glad you framed it that way because I wanted to ask based on your your pecking order, like what kind of stress that added to your life and it, again, your shape never really well with that response that as your teenager, adulthood comes next and then you got this big shift in life and you have all of these, not all of you have three siblings
5:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Were you able to hold it together or how did that go?
6:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, I mean, at the time Derek, it's like, you don't know any different, right?
6:06
[SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of the crux of the matter.
6:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So what is this kind of what is, and as a kid, you kind of don't really have control or agency over it.
6:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So you just adapt, right?
6:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And you make due to what is.
6:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you were to ask me at the time, might be like, and even like, maybe even five, six, seven, eight years ago, about my childhood, I'd been like, oh, yeah, that's fine, it's great, right?
6:30
[SPEAKER_01]: like the things that I had to complain about one of my adaptive ways of coping with it was like I'd look around at other people's stuff going on and it's like well it's not as bad as that, right?
6:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I grew up in about to be 40 this year.
6:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, millennial don't hold it against me, but the blend of like no technology until like, you know, basically half my life, and then all of a sudden we had the social media.
6:57
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, in those formative years, teenage years, let's just say, of like coming in the manhood, if you will, you know, you can look around and look online and really compare yourself to other people in a way where it's like, you use that to be like, hey, that wasn't so bad.
7:16
[SPEAKER_01]: what I've now found is that by doing that I didn't really allow myself to notice the impact that that had on me and maybe the responsibilities that I took on that I maybe wasn't prepared for and developmentally shouldn't have had to do which is like going back to the things that like hey a lot of guys carry this weight and the stuff and like most of the time they don't even know
7:45
[SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned five, maybe eight years ago, you thought a way, what changed the way that you're thinking?
7:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what was the, was that an event series of events?
7:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, like the loss of my marriage almost.
7:59
[SPEAKER_00]: That'll do, or should, should do it.
8:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or should do it, right?
8:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
8:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, you, uh, you kind of go through life and I was checking off the boxes and it wasn't.
8:10
[SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't feeling like the respect, the love, the appreciation that I felt like I deserved, right?
8:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, at the time, didn't realize like the mess on my side of the street as I put it.
8:29
[SPEAKER_01]: right and um it was like if there was a um feedback or criticism let's say about the mess over here it was immediately deflected right to get defensive about it go on the attack or the offensive and talk about the nine other
8:46
[SPEAKER_01]: things that I did do as opposed to this one thing that I didn't do and that led to what I'll like a lot of people refer to now as like, you know, her not feeling like emotionally safe.
9:01
[SPEAKER_01]: in the relationship, right, and on the other hand, there was this idea and like sort of like a narrative that I think a lot of people buy into, which is kind of like happy wife happy life.
9:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So there was this like deflection, and there was this like, oh, what do I do to fix this or like, how can I like get it right?
9:24
[SPEAKER_01]: and so what that did was on one hand is like invalidated her and on the other hand I was without knowing it not really including myself in the relationship.
9:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was not filling up my cup or asking for what I needed and at the same time trying to give her what she needed and do it right and it was just a recipe for disaster really.
9:49
[SPEAKER_00]: The parallels are
9:52
[SPEAKER_00]: eerily similar, eerily similar.
9:55
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to ask you, given how you kind of frame your upbringing, I went into marriage, mimicking what I saw, and my upbringing was probably a start contrast
10:16
[SPEAKER_00]: was a very loving family.
10:17
[SPEAKER_00]: We didn't say I love you a lot until later in life.
10:20
[SPEAKER_00]: But I knew I knew the love was that I saw the respect demonstrated.
10:23
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't necessarily a who they are outside.
10:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't match who they were in the house.
10:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm making a point with this night.
10:31
[SPEAKER_00]: One is bad, one is good.
10:33
[SPEAKER_00]: But I took what I saw into my marriage and it didn't yield the same result.
10:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I thought it was not my problem because I was doing what I saw, how much of what you experienced early in marriage was based on what you saw or can you speak to that?
10:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, yeah, that's like a call at your blueprint, right?
10:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like what you grew up with and it's like, this is how it's supposed to go.
11:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And that of course gets impacted and influenced by, you know, all the TV shows and what society says, like, should or shouldn't be.
11:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you kind of like have that blueprint and you're like building your life accordingly and Like you said expecting the same results.
11:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So it gets a little dumb founding or I'm a little dumb founded When that doesn't happen
11:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I love Legos when I was a kid, right?
11:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes, you get to like, step like 38, and then like the thing doesn't look like it's supposed to be like, take it all apart.
11:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like group building back up again.
11:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right?
11:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like that, except for it, it's not even close.
11:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I like what you expected it to be.
11:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, this does not look like the picture on the box.
11:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
11:45
[SPEAKER_00]: how different were the, were you upbringing from your, your wife?
11:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what I've learned in a lot of ways is like we, as humans, kind of marry our unfinished business.
11:57
[SPEAKER_01]: meaning are like our partners will be like eerily similar to our moms basically, right?
12:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Not exactly, but like there's elements of that.
12:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So in a lot of ways, like before I knew this, I didn't had no idea.
12:12
[SPEAKER_01]: But then like, finally when I started like getting into all this stuff, I'm like, oh, look.
12:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
12:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, wow, this is interesting here, like mirror, hello.
12:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
12:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And, um, and it's, it's a.
12:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an opportunity to basically kind of like re-live certain experience and experiential dynamics in a relationship where a family unit and getting a different result because like what I've learned and like for example, the work that I do is a lot about like regulating your nervous system, right, and the emotion that come up from it.
12:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So basically,
12:51
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're familiar or not with it with your nervous system, it's like it's like this super computer that remembers things, right?
12:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So like for example, if there's an argument or somebody's tone changes are look on their face changes and your experiences of that were like, hey, anytime there's a tone change doesn't go well.
13:12
[SPEAKER_01]: your system will automatically shift into this fight or flight state and then you'll be ready for an attack right that's why like for me at least when my wife is like hey you know you forgot to lock the door and i'm like it was like the world just ended right
13:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, got into all the different reasons why it's like, it's not that big of a detail.
13:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
13:36
[SPEAKER_01]: As opposed to just being like, oh, I can see that it's really important that the door is locked.
13:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, like that's something that I'm going to work on and get better at.
13:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
13:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, everybody has the version of that going on underneath the surface, but doesn't realize it, and it comes out in the little conversations.
13:54
[SPEAKER_01]: But over time, those little conversations, it's kind of like a You ever heard of like death by a thousand cuts.
14:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you have little paper cuts, right?
14:03
[SPEAKER_01]: That's eventually what like erodes the marriage and like everybody thinks it's like oh, I need better communication And we just gotta figure this out and it's like, mm
14:12
[SPEAKER_01]: actually what we have to figure out is like your biology and your physiology and what happens for you in the moment that causes you to feel that way about her saying that being because if that doesn't change the unfortunate part about it is because like most guys know what they want to do or need to do in that moment because like it doesn't go well and afterwards
14:35
[SPEAKER_01]: They look back and they're like, dang.
14:38
[SPEAKER_01]: I, that's not me.
14:39
[SPEAKER_01]: That wasn't really me in there.
14:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, and ideally we say sorry afterwards and repair that sort of a thing.
14:45
[SPEAKER_01]: But ultimately,
14:47
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing that takes us out going back to like, we're missing skills and tools and information is like, we're not seeing what's going underneath the surface for us, right, because let's be honest, most dudes, at least for me, like, you're not allowed to feel, right, it's not really encouraged when you do it in a public place, people look at you, not with like, so glad that you're sharing that you're sad and you're crying.
15:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Or that you're afraid or that like you feel in shame or any of those emotions It's kind of like whoa, okay.
15:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I got that too big deal suck it up like deal with it, man.
15:25
[SPEAKER_00]: All right Like how receptive Was your wife to you being that person when you became that person?
15:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what is going on
15:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, because think about it like this there.
15:40
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like when you show up a certain way for like, you know, the better part of a decade And all of a sudden you're like You know what you're right I did do that and I'm sorry right
15:55
[SPEAKER_01]: there's on one hand a whole big vulnerable scary thing to like do that right because like you're like oh this is my fault and I can see well man I set it as free as dirty right and like for me my experience was is
16:14
[SPEAKER_01]: the frustrating like a discouraging part of it is is almost like you're fighting against like the shadow you that's there that she still sees as you are becoming this new version of you if that makes sense.
16:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Makes makes a lot of sense in what I've learned was my error in my version of that process is
16:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't talk my wife through my changes in real time.
16:46
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
16:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm seeing, in my mind, I'm a different person and I'm like, hey,
16:53
[SPEAKER_00]: new DJs don't you like it but yesterday or two minutes before this conversation I was still what she saw which was you know some of the challenge areas and I wonder if you if you can relate or if that's common and in your work I know you probably weren't with a lot of guys but like what would a
17:14
[SPEAKER_00]: how does that go.
17:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably one of the biggest like initial hurdles to get through right because on one hand like you know like you talked about my Instagram page and the things that I say it's like a lot of times um you know my page is kind of like in your face a little bit.
17:31
[SPEAKER_01]: right?
17:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Very much so.
17:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
17:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, I was like, put it in it nicely, right?
17:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and but that's like for a reason that's, I'll, I'll be truthful like in that, that's not how I coach so much.
17:46
[SPEAKER_01]: But what I found is is like, even for myself,
17:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, the things that like we dive into and like the guys dive into are things that are not fun to look at, right?
17:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So if it's kind of like going to the gym, you're going to avoid it until you can't in a lot of ways, right, for some people.
18:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And especially what I found for guys is like, we're not going to like want to learn how to like deal with her.
18:12
[SPEAKER_01]: right we're gonna like want a lot of times double down in our work or like not just really need to get in shape or I just really need to make more money or go on nicer vacations or whatever it is as opposed to the thing that's actually the thing right and so that's kind of like the package in which like a lot of us have to see it and feel it in here in order to be able to be like oh that's what that's that's what's going on
18:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
18:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I really should like do this thing, right?
18:40
[SPEAKER_01]: But to answer your question, that's one of the hardest things about the process is you're looking at the stuff that's not fun.
18:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're being confronted by in a lot of times the thing that's been the thing for usually
19:01
[SPEAKER_01]: and like you're like confronting the final boss that you've been avoiding right and then in a lot of ways has been like called the victim of the transgressions that were kind of like not aware of if that makes sense.
19:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's being able to hold on to the two truths of and ideally ask for support and encouragement and doing this work while being able to hold
19:28
[SPEAKER_01]: like, yeah, ow, that did, like I can see how that hurt you, right?
19:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of times, like, we hope that that conversation about like, oh, thanks for sharing that, that I can see how that hurt you is like a one and done conversation.
19:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not.
19:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and for me,
19:51
[SPEAKER_00]: I can almost, as I'm thinking about saying this, I don't know how true it is, as much of it as just who I've been, is that I can release things on the moment's notice.
20:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, I say that, and that's again, that's that power through.
20:06
[SPEAKER_00]: And when that's not reciprocated,
20:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, sometimes for me, that was a little frustrating, like, hey, but when you have your version of a thing, I can get me out, and sometimes this reverse, sometimes, you know, the man is holding on and the woman is not, but that's, that's been a challenge for me.
20:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of, a lot of it for me, I like how you reference our communication and suggesting that you didn't suggest it wasn't important, but also this other as important thing, or
20:40
[SPEAKER_00]: in real time, as you said, that I'm like, man, I, I've always known how to communicate well, at least as an adult for sure, the high school as well.
20:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I chose not to communicate well in my house, and it was the thing where, because I've been this person so long and it seemed to be accepted, I didn't see the
21:03
[SPEAKER_00]: the urgency in becoming a different, representing as a, as a, as a different person, I'm like, oh, well, she, she gets me, but it wasn't necessarily, you know, fair to her, for me to continue in my ways, right?
21:19
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the thing that you said about, running from
21:24
[SPEAKER_00]: as I interpreted as running from the actual truth that's in your face and find another thing.
21:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's been a thing in my platform.
21:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I did, I did more of the thing that I was great, good, a great at, then become better at the thing that was standing in my face every day.
21:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, who wants to look at those things that they're not good at.
21:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And I found myself, um,
21:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I didn't talk about it, and because I was seeing results in the space where I was celebrated, I started to put that on my family.
21:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm doing this because of y'all, I'm 14, 16 hours a day because of y'all and that's not who they are.
22:05
[SPEAKER_00]: They just want it kind of be there.
22:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know, I was in a crazy, it's like all that one that's kind of you there.
22:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, as long, how long have you been in the coaching?
22:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, this will be going on four years now.
22:18
[SPEAKER_00]: four years.
22:19
[SPEAKER_00]: How much of it?
22:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Who gets the bigger benefit?
22:25
[SPEAKER_00]: You or your clients?
22:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, that's like a really good question, Derek, and it's both, right?
22:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a good coach, like obviously, in some way, shape or form has like gone through tribulations, right?
22:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I found is, is like, some coaches, well, and this is not a night, I'm not trying to throw shade at anybody, but sometimes coaches and therapists will like take their stuff and then help other people to avoid their stuff, okay?
22:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And I use it as an opportunity because like every time like I have a client that comes to me with something right like there's a good chance that either I've been through it or if I haven't it's going to bring up my own stuff right so it's an opportunity and the muscle that I flex is like oh there's something that I haven't looked at close enough maybe.
23:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And then that's an opportunity to kind of go a little bit further down the trail of my own work.
23:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's both for good coaches and therapists.
23:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like your clients are your mirrors.
23:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Like just kind of like the world is your mirror, right?
23:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're going to be your mirror student.
23:37
[SPEAKER_01]: You can absolutely use as an opportunity for your own growth on a percent.
23:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, sure.
23:42
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to, I want to jump back a little bit of the time between
23:47
[SPEAKER_00]: your parents' divorcing and you getting married.
23:49
[SPEAKER_00]: How long was that?
23:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
23:52
[SPEAKER_01]: How long was that?
23:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably like eight years.
23:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Eight years?
23:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I got married at 25.
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me split up at 17.
24:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I got married at 25 too.
24:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna pin one question.
24:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully I don't forget it.
24:06
[SPEAKER_00]: In that eight years, who did you become in like, like, I think,
24:17
[SPEAKER_00]: frame your answer, but 17.
24:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, that's really, that's the parallel.
24:23
[SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy.
24:23
[SPEAKER_00]: 17.
24:24
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about 23.
24:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, about 16 when I got my license, I patterned my day around avoiding my father.
24:35
[SPEAKER_00]: Not for any, for no good reason, yeah, I didn't like his rules.
24:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought I should have, but you don't get that until you actually have to run a house and have order in a house.
24:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, and went from me avoiding getting information from him to now me being embarrassed that I did information from him and I'm still not, I'm still not talking to him.
24:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was like, hey, I don't necessarily want the information from you.
25:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me prove to him that he raised the good son.
25:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to be a man in man my way through it.
25:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
25:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Created more challenges that he had already gone through that we probably could have avoided, or at least had some different perspective on going into a thing that I had no idea about.
25:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm kind of interested in how you manage a way through it from that, you know, doing that time.
25:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, and it was kind of like, it's a eerily similar in a lot of ways.
25:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like my whole childhood, it's been training for that in that, like, you know, for my parent time, it my parents dynamic.
25:46
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of times, like, at least at home, they were a little bit so entrenched with, like, the tension between each other, that, like, us kids, we kind of like, did our own thing in a lot of ways.
25:58
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, unfortunately, when that separation happened, it wasn't that surprising, right?
26:06
[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't like the love there that, you know, you would expect growing up.
26:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was kind of like, oh, this is what it is, right?
26:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the time I didn't know, but like, yeah, I was avoiding that like crazy, right?
26:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody would ask me, like, hey, are you okay?
26:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, yeah, I'm fine.
26:24
[SPEAKER_01]: right because in a lot of ways like I didn't know any different right but that was like kind of really from then until I'd say like 23, 24 even into 25 that's when like the wheel really started coming off the track for me like I um
26:44
[SPEAKER_01]: you know at a high school I was a big baseball guy like a little baseball baseball baseball is my life at the dream of being a major league baseball player right I got drafted by the red talks at a high school I was on track to like at least in my head played professionally and then I opted to do go to college got a scholarship to UC Santa Barbara and then that was kind of like right after like a couple years after
27:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, the separation and everything kind of came to a head and like that's when my life just like fell apart Right, and that's when I started you know partying and stuff and college and I'll call it became a big coping strategy for me And it wasn't until like you know mid 20s that I started to like wake up for that, but I'll be honest It wasn't really until like my early 30s that I really started to be like what am I doing?
27:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right?
27:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Why am I in like I was like doing all the things that I thought I was doing or should be doing and then like keep like running into this wall over and over and over again and like to your point
27:52
[SPEAKER_01]: not reaching out and asking for help for anybody right because going back to like figuring all out why why is that the case because it wasn't just me that didn't want to ask for help right really no guys want to
28:08
[SPEAKER_01]: and what's interesting and like what like the research shows basically is that most guys are afraid of feeling like six different emotions at the core of it, right?
28:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And those emotions are shame, fear, helplessness, overwhelm, rejection, and sadness.
28:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are like the core emotions that we don't want to feel, but the thing is, is we don't know that.
28:40
[SPEAKER_01]: But how it usually comes out is anger.
28:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it so much that we don't know that?
28:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we don't know why we won't emoten those ways.
28:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's probably a combination of the two, right?
28:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the part of why it happens is because we don't know, right?
29:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we don't know,
29:07
[SPEAKER_01]: if you don't know something, what do you do usually try to figure it out, right?
29:11
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you think about like, um, like, for example, let's just take beer, right?
29:19
[SPEAKER_01]: As a guy, thinking about your past, have you had lots of, like, lived examples or, um, lived experiences of you being afraid, sharing that with somebody and it going well?
29:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Or even admitting that to somebody?
29:38
[SPEAKER_00]: going well, I've only been open to sharing it in the last five, six years.
29:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, they've been plenty of times where I look back on the situation where, like, I sort of die several times.
29:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
29:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And that'd be sensationalized, but like literally how, for me, God, for others, however, they attribute that they're getting through that.
30:09
[SPEAKER_00]: in those moments.
30:10
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that I was more fearful of stupid.
30:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
30:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
30:17
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, since I get so many of them, I'm kind of answering, kind of arguing my own position on it.
30:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I didn't, the reflex in all cases wasn't necessarily fear.
30:30
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
30:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, in the moment,
30:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and like isn't an interesting like you've had experiences where you almost died, and yet there's like, I'm not sure if it was fear, right?
30:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And, um, or stupidity, right, which you know, there could be both, by the way, especially depending on what age it is, right?
30:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Because sometimes you just don't know the severity of a situation because you just don't know, because it takes so long.
30:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Takes over 25 years for the human brain to fully come online to even, that's why we look back and we're like, I cannot believe.
31:05
[SPEAKER_01]: The shit that I did.
31:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
31:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I talk.
31:08
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I talk about it because I got kids coming up through.
31:12
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want them to have a library of stupidish.
31:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It's corny as that sounds.
31:18
[SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy as that sounds like I'm giving them other references to it.
31:20
[SPEAKER_00]: But you don't have to go figure this one out.
31:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Not for not having any information on it.
31:26
[SPEAKER_00]: If you still choose to run it to that wall, it's probably still going to hurt the way it hurt me.
31:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're talking about the hardest job of a dad.
31:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you're like, hey, don't go down that road.
31:36
[SPEAKER_01]: They're all there.
31:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And then like, whether they go down the wall or not, it's kind of like their decision, but it's so hard to sit there and watch, right?
31:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I have adult children.
31:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I have three adult shows in and two that are still in the middle and in elementary school.
31:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, so like to go back to the point of fear and like not really like Having the experiences where it's gone well, right, or even knowing a lot of times like when we have an experience like for example Like I can pick up a time when I was younger when I was like afraid right and I said something about it and I got made fun of
32:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
32:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you think about your nervous system, that remembers that and the humiliation, the embarrassment, that comes with that, feeling like another, I don't belong and we're wired for survival and connection all at once, because a lot of times they're tied.
32:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Think about it, like if you're alone, you were more likely to be dead, basically as a human being.
32:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's evolutionarily wired into our biology, right?
32:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So socially in a friend group, if you don't fit in, guess what, like you're out, you're alone, that sucks.
32:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and it's like side tangent this like Bernadet Brown does a lot of work around like shame and like all the things and I'm not sure if you know Bernadet Brown is Okay cool, so she says something about like
33:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to butcher this now that I'm bringing it up, but basically it's like the opposite of belonging is fitting in, right?
33:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So we try to fit in from our survival standpoint, but ultimately what we do is we like change who we are or we show up as a different version of ourselves.
33:27
[SPEAKER_01]: So, meaning even though we fit in, it's like we don't really feel like we belong because we're not, right?
33:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So we learn what's okay and what's not based off of our interactions.
33:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So if we learn that it's okay or not okay to be afraid, right, what are we going to do with that?
33:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like you don't not feel fear.
33:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You shove that down, right?
33:49
[SPEAKER_01]: You press it and you repress it.
33:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And you try to like override it.
33:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And what that, what that can do is it can give you experiences of it's like, oh, this feeling I can push through it, right?
34:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is a good muscle to have flexed, right?
34:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But what it doesn't allow for is for you to actually be like, oh, this is fear.
34:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, wow, I'm like checking out right now.
34:18
[SPEAKER_01]: My heart rates changing, my breath is changing.
34:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is a feeling that my system is turning on right now.
34:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I am okay, even feeling this.
34:31
[SPEAKER_01]: right we don't get practice with that so therefore when it comes up as an adult guess what we don't even recognize what that is right and something like sometimes like somebody about like scare you I don't know where I hate it when people like ah right hate those videos on my Instagram right but what do like people do they're like ah what'd you do that right yeah
34:56
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like a little example of like, ooh, that person felt fear.
35:00
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe afterwards it was like a little overwhelmed going back to the feelings out.
35:05
[SPEAKER_01]: We aren't allowed to feel, right?
35:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Helplessness maybe even when you're in fear, right?
35:11
[SPEAKER_01]: And then afterwards there's like shame.
35:13
[SPEAKER_01]: of maybe being embarrassed, right.
35:16
[SPEAKER_01]: But what comes out is I'm angry.
35:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Why'd you do that to me?
35:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And so a lot of times this sort of like dynamic is playing out in so many different aspects of our life without us even realizing it.
35:31
[SPEAKER_01]: and that goes back to kind of like the core of the matter of like, hey, we're just like so under-tooled to be able to like navigate through these like complex situations, which is basically marriage and fatherhood, like the hardest thing ever.
35:49
[SPEAKER_00]: You will all in track to go to the to the to the majors in baseball that came to a
35:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm wondering, is something that I'm dealing with now, is you have children now?
36:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I do have it.
36:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Just turn three.
36:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a three-year-old.
36:05
[SPEAKER_00]: Three-year-old.
36:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Boy.
36:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Boy.
36:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Boy.
36:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe not on your radar just yet.
36:12
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'll put it to you and see how it goes.
36:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Like failure, a major failure in life for me has kind of...
36:27
[SPEAKER_00]: made me a lot more cautious about going big, trying to do big things in life, because I know what one thing that I say is I climbed the corporate ladder to the top, and found out it was leaning against the wrong building.
36:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
36:43
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying there's a fall in the sense in that regard.
36:48
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like man, we just had to episode about it within the last month about man.
36:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't dream big in front of my kids
36:58
[SPEAKER_00]: and I think a lot of it is tired to
37:01
[SPEAKER_00]: the potential for something to fail.
37:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So having gone through, in my case, I know with divorce sounds like an ear shot, I've been closing up to understand the severity of things not going right, but losing my identity, that was tied to my corporate life, while I was very successful, and I put so much into it, and now I got to come home and look at these people that I was saying I was doing all this for, and now I don't have this thing anymore, and I find myself kind of like,
37:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And do I want to go big on anything really?
37:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And the answer is yes, but I don't want to tell them about it.
37:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because now there's a measure, somebody's going to kind of monitor my success.
37:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe a weird way to get to a question to ask with feedback on that from you, but just in terms of, and maybe there's another thing, baseball, being in your scope, like you being on a track that's certain,
37:58
[SPEAKER_00]: not being on the track.
37:59
[SPEAKER_00]: How did it kind of impact how you show up in life in different ways in terms of going big?
38:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, that was like a huge, similarly speaking, like a fear of failure.
38:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Experience for me, that was absolutely how to resdu do for like all of my 20s.
38:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Right?
38:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a sting that like, you know, and like go into the major leagues versus getting drafts that are two very different things.
38:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanna be clear if anybody like knows anything about baseball.
38:29
[SPEAKER_01]: You can be drafted, so when you get drafted in baseball, it's different from football and basketball, where they have a huge minor league system, rookie ball, singly, double-y, triple-y, then the major leagues.
38:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, so just because you are a part of the professional organization, it's like half a percent of people that get drafted even get like make it to the big leagues, let alone stay there.
38:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, so when I say play Major League Baseball, it's like rookie ball single a like ideally the idea was to make it to a big league team Right, but I just want to be clear that just in case anybody listening like was a baseball player and he's like this guy thinking he's gonna be in the Major League's dude
39:13
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think a change is I don't think a change is the perspective though because if that was your dream Yeah, oh, yeah, no, I've just like technicalities there just because like I was in that circle for so long Right, and the fall from grace was like so high
39:29
[SPEAKER_01]: right and so going back to the emotions that I was like afraid of feeling didn't know that I was feeling them and go figure Derek didn't ask for help, right?
39:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Imagine it and I've never actually told this story publicly so I'm gonna do it here, that's okay, it's loose but like yeah, exclusive here, now for the first time because like I forever told the story that I got hurt and that's why I stopped
39:55
[SPEAKER_01]: right, but what actually happened was, is like I got the yips and I couldn't throw the ball straight anymore.
40:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I was a pitcher, right, and like I would throw the ball go up here, and like I was straight into the ground, and I didn't know what was going on.
40:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I had never had that problem before, right, looking back now I can see it was like this whole combination of all these things in my system was overwhelmed.
40:19
[SPEAKER_01]: and I didn't know it.
40:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was so afraid, so afraid of being rejected, shame about it, all this stuff.
40:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And the problem is is where everybody goes with that is we take it and we shove it down and we keep it or we're by ourselves on it.
40:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And what that does is it makes it so much heavier.
40:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So, geniusly, I thought it would just be better, but just say, you know what?
40:46
[SPEAKER_01]: That's good enough, right?
40:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's way easier to just kind of like bow out and as opposed to like really confront this thing, right?
40:56
[SPEAKER_01]: And so much shame in that, right?
40:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It almost flunked out of college, right?
41:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I had this full right scholarship, everybody back at home was like, I can't wait to see, you know, Jason Planford, UCSB,
41:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, everything that I had always like talked about dreamed about gone.
41:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
41:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
41:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So my confidence was about this much.
41:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
41:20
[SPEAKER_01]: And I spent a decade.
41:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Not liking baseball at all.
41:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
41:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And nobody could figure out why.
41:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I just didn't like baseball.
41:27
[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't even figure out why.
41:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Little did I know adaptively.
41:32
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things we do is we start to lose interest in things that we previously loved as a form of nervous system, self-protection, right?
41:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Because when you think about it, any time when I think about baseball, it would bring me right back to that place.
41:49
[SPEAKER_01]: So what would I do?
41:50
[SPEAKER_01]: I would like to associate basically from it.
41:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And then develop this relationship of like
41:57
[SPEAKER_01]: right which I didn't really discover until like the last five years or so which has been like a huge epiphany right so anyways back to your question of like failure right I wouldn't even dare try something that was really important to me because like I was so and like I didn't know it at the time but I was so fragile with like my identity of who I was because like I didn't know
42:27
[SPEAKER_01]: my ability to throw a ball, basically, right and have success with that.
42:32
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where I like, um, dropped myself up on.
42:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that translated to money, right?
42:41
[SPEAKER_01]: I had enough money.
42:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I could be like, well, make money.
42:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, it was the next thing.
42:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I finally signed up for Jiu-Jitsu.
42:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Really was the real confronting thing there.
42:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and I've been trained for a decade now.
42:55
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, talk about the same like the mats don't lie.
42:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of the same.
43:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You can have a, this is where you think you are.
43:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you go train and you're like, this is where I am.
43:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
43:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And this like stark difference was like, oh, oh,
43:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
43:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
43:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Ow.
43:10
[SPEAKER_01]: You go, duh.
43:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
43:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was actually the place where I really started to really wire my relationship with failure.
43:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's right.
43:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And just the fact that, um,
43:25
[SPEAKER_01]: failure is inevitable.
43:27
[SPEAKER_01]: The inevitable part of the process, right, and it's actually interestingly enough, the quicker that you fail the faster you go, which I was just like, what?
43:36
[SPEAKER_01]: That's crazy, right?
43:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And, um, taking that a step further with regards to like going for something, what's interesting is, is one of the cool parts about, at least for me, social media, and the internet, is you get to see people's like where they started and like where they are now.
43:53
[SPEAKER_01]: right as opposed to like all of a sudden you learn about this new thing and they're like oh my god they're so good overnight success that was like the whole thing and i was just like where's my overnight success right and wait a second no buddy
44:10
[SPEAKER_01]: has an overnight success.
44:11
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a long night.
44:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, the longest night, right?
44:16
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, holy, I have to start from there to get to there, right, which is overwhelming at first, but then after a while,
44:28
[SPEAKER_01]: it becomes oh that's part of the journey yeah and my biggest hurdle i think was is like and i think this might resonate with a lot of people is like a lot of times when you hear stories the people that really make headlines are the people that really had it the hardest right and i'm like oh shhh
44:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't relate to that in a lot of ways right and again it reinforced that I had it pretty good and I had it pretty good and I was still here messin it up
45:00
[SPEAKER_01]: yeah right over and over and over again right so there's the shame of like i don't even deserve it right not only doing not deserve it but like look at that last time that i did that thing and that fell right on my face right and i didn't even talk about it until it was almost 40 on the deer son podcast with there
45:26
[SPEAKER_00]: We really are more alike than we are dissimilar in a lot of cases.
45:32
[SPEAKER_00]: This being one of our, yeah.
45:33
[SPEAKER_00]: But I came to the realization, probably within the last 30 days that my fear operating in this space wasn't necessarily using my voice.
45:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I got over that really quickly.
45:47
[SPEAKER_00]: It was not being as successful as my most successful thing.
45:53
[SPEAKER_00]: but it just dawned on me, while I just owned it, I could say it with the last few weeks of my most successful accomplishment took 20 years.
46:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
46:05
[SPEAKER_00]: This is year three or four, and I'm,
46:09
[SPEAKER_00]: trying to figure out, like, why this night is so much longer than the 20th night that's what you get there and I had to give myself some grace and stop expecting things to be the way that I've seen them before and be open to the way that things need to happen now.
46:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I am going to start the wine, but I want to make sure that it's clear what you do.
46:34
[SPEAKER_00]: and I want to give you space to kind of frame that out, but as you're before you go into that, I want to understand how you got into it, like what, cause that's starting to contrast from Major League Baseball.
46:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, totally.
46:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's interesting is it's kind of tied to baseball in a lot of ways because I think of like I've always kind of had this thing in me where I like to reach back and like because like you know, life's hard and a lot of times when I'm going for something that I really want.
47:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, everybody has, I think, people in their life that has, like, kind of gave them, like, a stepping stool, right?
47:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was, like, such a huge thing, because sometimes, like, there's not a lot of people that are willing to help.
47:18
[SPEAKER_01]: They're, like, geeky, peeping that can go on with stuff.
47:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And I always, like, there's so much relief in somebody being like, hey, check this out.
47:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Look at this.
47:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I got this, right?
47:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember my first day of high school.
47:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, you know, I grew up when I don't know if it's still up being like grease the movie.
47:34
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like that classic like high school.
47:37
[SPEAKER_00]: She loves those kind of movies.
47:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm 46.
47:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it was still at the, it was, I mean, this, that's all didn't vote of us.
47:44
[SPEAKER_00]: Just John's votes, right?
47:46
[SPEAKER_00]: John's votes?
47:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
47:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it was kind of like that classic stereotypical high school like there's the clicks and all the things and like, you know, you want to fit in and not and the girl on this and that and, you know, don't get stuff in a locker.
47:59
[SPEAKER_01]: It was kind of like, you know, as I was a, I'm a taller guy and like I was, I was, I was, I was bigger as I was a skinny as a rail, but I was taller.
48:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So it wasn't so much worried about that, but there was still an underlying, oh my god, this is high school, that first day, right, and so I made it through the day.
48:17
[SPEAKER_01]: five.
48:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, wow, that was easy, right?
48:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And the coolest part was, is my last period of the day was baseball.
48:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, how cool is this?
48:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Easy work.
48:26
[SPEAKER_01]: I go to school and I get to play baseball every day.
48:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you freaking kidding me?
48:30
[SPEAKER_01]: This is pretty rare at, right?
48:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But the thing was that Eric is like, I go out to baseball.
48:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's actually the first time that I experience like that
48:45
[SPEAKER_01]: and not welcome, right?
48:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Cause it was like, we're all like giddy, the freshman or like, oh my gosh, we're like in a little like on the baseball field for the first time.
48:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And the varsity guys just came out was like, what's up your F in freshman?
48:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Like blah, blah, blah, like just some sort of version of that.
49:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just remember like my stomach dropping.
49:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean like, oh my god, really?
49:07
[SPEAKER_01]: The place where like I was looking forward to it the most, I'm gonna have to like navigate this right now.
49:13
[SPEAKER_01]: The sucks.
49:14
[SPEAKER_01]: right and I just remember that day I'm like I know when I'm a junior in a senior that's it's changing right I'm not that is not how this is gonna roll here right and yeah when I was a junior in a senior I went out of my way to do the opposite to the freshman like I'd spent in time after practice like either hating with them or like showing on pitches or like you know because I was like you know what
49:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Freshman, like you could have a six inch grosspert next year, be a sophomore, and then help us win the CF Championship next year at the end of the year, right?
49:46
[SPEAKER_01]: Who knows?
49:48
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I kind of like taking that mentality through life, so that combined with the fact that I was, like I think most guys are trying so desperately to be a good dude, right?
50:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted my wife to look at me and I was opposed to like when I came into the room she like turned her head to like light up
50:07
[SPEAKER_01]: right and eventually when I had kids like I wanted to like be a lived-in-body example of like what that looked like to quote unquote be a man and there's nothing there's no better feeling than being able to like wake up every day being aligned I'll call it with like who I want to be or at least a version of me who I want to be and like me taking steps in that direction
50:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right and I had spent so much time on podcasts and like learning about all sorts of things Right and like so much time like in limiting beliefs and self-sab bitage and You know all the things that we have already talked about to where I'm like why is it that I don't Feel it here right I get little shots of like epiphanies right and it wasn't until I like really got to
50:57
[SPEAKER_01]: be able to regulate my emotions, understand what's really going on for me, why I'm the way that I am.
51:03
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like this huge weight that kind of like lifted off, right?
51:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it allowed me to connect in new ways with my wife, with guys like you, with other people in my life, to where it was like, I was really more of me, and it just feels good to be more of you, if you will, right?
51:21
[SPEAKER_01]: But ultimately going back to your question of like what I do is like, you know, a lot of
51:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, where it's like they've got, you know, sometimes seven kids, right, they've been married for sometimes, you know, 15, 20 years, or it could be two, or it could be like, hey, I mean even like, I'm engaged right now, or want to get engaged, sometimes guys are in their 60s.
51:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but ultimately what's going on is like, there's a dynamic between them and their wife or them and their kids where it's either like, hey There's this thing that's been the thing that she keeps bringing up and I don't get why in the moment I respond the way that I'm doing
52:01
[SPEAKER_01]: sometimes it's like a good loud, the other time it's like a shut down, right?
52:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And with the wife that's kind of how the dynamic looks like and with the kids it's like, hey I can hold it together at work, but then like all of a sudden like he's or she's taken too long to tie their shoes and I just like fly off the handles, right?
52:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Well they're just like, I know they're five and I know they're going to be a kid and I know that they're not meaning to do that, but yeah I still I'm like,
52:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm grabbing them a little too hard or like I'm getting boisterous with them and I like and I see their face afterwards and it's like I don't want that yeah
52:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I believe this work is so important.
52:39
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like there's a well-lit path to figuring it out and having tools in those moments to just not go there anymore.
52:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Right to that place, some guys call it like, being out of nine are boiling over so that you can ultimately have a choice in that moment, the pause to do something differently.
53:00
[SPEAKER_01]: right and it's so shocking and also not shocking how quickly once you just like sometimes I'll compare it to like driving like we all drive a car run our bodies right and we all like have basically skilled and tools of like how to drive it based on really what was shown to us.
53:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So talking about the wall you keep slamming into your drive in the car and you keep on running into this wall I guess what the people in your car are gonna be like whoa dad What's going on and you're like, I don't know.
53:29
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no brakes on this thing Right, and it's not because you don't have a brake It's because you just don't know the control panel to like push the foot Right, and you don't see the yellow and the red light warning signs to like now is the time to use that brake either
53:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and a long story short, that's what I help guys too.
53:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I did that break analogy before you even finished it.
53:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I know there's a break there.
53:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Why am I not pushing it like, and imagine telling your family, hey guys, I see the wall.
54:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just not pushing the break.
54:07
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of really what it boils down to, we honest with ourselves, man.
54:11
[SPEAKER_00]: This all...
54:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, I don't know if this was a one-in-done for you, but I would love to extend the opportunity as scheduled as a line in the future because I think the way that you present is so relatable, self is leading me.
54:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I got, I got what I needed.
54:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't need it.
54:32
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope it goes over well for the public, but I think there's a, I think there's a wealth
54:39
[SPEAKER_00]: value and constantly reminding folks the way that you do that, there is a controlled mechanism.
54:49
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got to learn it.
54:50
[SPEAKER_00]: You have full access to it.
54:52
[SPEAKER_00]: It's completely up to you whether you haven't used it to date.
54:55
[SPEAKER_00]: It's there.
54:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
54:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Just tap into it.
54:58
[SPEAKER_00]: This has been very, very, very helpful for me.
55:02
[SPEAKER_00]: How can the folks find you if you want to be found?
55:06
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, I'm mostly hanging out on Instagram, Jason Schnitzer Co-Chene.
55:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure we can put that somewhere to click on.
55:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got a podcast, the self-control show with Jason Schnitzer.
55:19
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not cool and fancy like yours.
55:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll be honest.
55:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Information is information, man.
55:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
55:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
55:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
55:26
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll make sure all of that is, it's, it's, it's, you, you just saw a come across a screen.
55:30
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're on the audio, it'll be linked down below.
55:32
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're on the video, it'll be linked down below as well.
55:34
[SPEAKER_00]: But tapping with Jason, see how he can help you understand the tools that you have access to and maybe give you some other tools or some references to help you get your nervous system on track.
55:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I promise you, at some point,
55:53
[SPEAKER_00]: They may not want to hear your voice, if your voice is that violent all of their lives.
56:00
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would hate for people to look up.
56:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And I get a lot of responses just from not even post the content about the scientific approach that you're taking, or the professor approach that you're taking just from sharing perspective.
56:15
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, man, I wish my dad, or I wish my mom would have, man, you're speaking to what happened in my life, and I'm like, man,
56:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Imagine me not not bringing myself back down to earth when I fly off.
56:29
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, pre-shade your brother Yeah, appreciate you kind of sounded like one of my static quote cards like hey hard pill the swallow hard truth Very hard to ladies and gentlemen because ladies do listen That's gonna do it for this episode.
56:45
[SPEAKER_00]: We appreciate you For watching and listening God bless you peace