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The Daring Dixmoor Five · Minor Mischief Podcast

• Kiki George: What happens in a tale as old as time, a confession bred from fear, a lie that took down the lives of not one but five individuals, and the real perpetrator appears to be gone in the wind. This is the Minor Mischief Podcast and this is the story of the daring Dixmore five. Mm. Mm. Welcome back. Welcome back to the Minor Mischief Podcast. I'm your host and homegirl for the time being, Mrs. Kiana Amir, and thank you for hanging out with me. So today's episode was originally supposed to be the wrap up to the Black History Month series, but I'm not sure if it's because this week is Juneteenth or if it's because I finished Asada and autobiography this week. But I was like, I'm ready to talk about this now. So for today's story. Go on and pack your personal item because we're not staying long, and we're heading over to Dixmore, Illinois. Dixmore, Illinois is a small town situated near the Calumat River, made of primarily blue-collar workers about 17 miles south of Chicago. Many of Dixmore's residents apparently work in manufacturing, and the town is known for being the most affordable part of the Chicago metro area, with home prices and values being well below the national average and further below the average for the area. And when I read that, I was like, are y'all really just trying to dress up saying that this is a low-income area? But I digress. I don't know anything about Dixmore. A fun fact about Dixmore that I had never heard before researching this case is that Dixmore is apparently experiencing a water crisis in 2026 due to systemic issues and its municipal water supply causing several, and by several I mean six or more water main breaks, leaving water primarily unsafe for residents to consume. And I'm gonna keep following that because that's a bit concerning. And even I mean, why don't that's a bit concerning. In Dixmore, Illinois, we're introduced to Robert Taylor, Jonathan Barr, James Harden, Robert Lee Veal, and Shane Sharp, who we're respectfully not going to call our mischief makers, and Cateresa Matthews, who is the star of our show, but also unfortunately our victim. Cateresa Matthews was born to her mother, Teresa Matthews, around 1977. And Not a lot is known about her life and upbringing, but she was set to enjoy spending time with her family and friends, especially her grandmother. And when I tell you I love healthy grandparent relationships, I love healthy grandparent relationships. Cateresa appeared to be her mother's only child, and she had very big goals, constantly reminding her mother that she wanted to be somebody in life. She was a math. Wiz, who wanted to be an accountant when she grew up, and she loved shopping. She loved clothes, she loved getting her hair done. She was just a total typical 14-year-old girl in the 90s. At the time of our story, Catarisa was in eighth grade and very much looking forward to her eighth grade prom and starting high school the following year. So the year is 1991. Boys to Men released Motown Philly, rope chains were a thing, bamboo earrings, matching team baseball caps to go with your fit became wildly popular. You know, Yankees hats, Dodgers hats, LA hats, like, yeah, became a thing. TV was so wholesome with shows like Fresh Prince of Belair, A Different World, Yo MTV Raps. I can't speak on MTV raps being wholesome. I don't know if this was before or after the booty shaking era. I was like three years old at this time. And Chicago and the surrounding areas at this point were lit because this is when Michael Jordan joined the team and the Chicago Bulls won their first championship. I'm not saying he joined it this year, but that's when he they won their first championship. Also, go Knicks. I have been waiting since the nineties for this moment. Me and my brother were having a conversation the other day. He's like, you know, we've been wanting the Knicks to win since like ninety-six. I don't care if it's 30 years later. They won, okay? So let's go over to November 19th, 1991. It's shortly before the Thanksgiving holiday, and we find 14 year old Cataresa Matthews hanging out with her grandmother. That was their norm every day after school. Cateresa would stop by her grandmother's house. She would chit chat with her. They would have dinner. Kiki, girl, how do boys at school? I'm fine, Grandma, how the boys at the bingo hall. You know, they would just have a good old time. So she was over at her grandma's house. They were having dinner. It's a mild day for Chicago in, you know, the late fall winter. It's about 50 degrees this day. So people are feeling good. Catarisa's having dinner with her grandma, and she's just like, you know what? I need to go home. I probably got some studying doing. I gotta spend some time with my mom too. And so I'm gonna go ahead and head out. And It was truly a different time in life because, you know, nowadays I feel like we don't let our fourteen year olds go back and forth. But I remember when I was a kid, and I'm from New York City, I was on the bus in the train by myself, walking to the corner store with my cousins, walking to and from school, you know. At the age of eight. Like it was just a very different time in life. I would not let my I have assumed to be twelve year old. I'm not letting her go anywhere by herself. Not yet. Mm-mm. So Catarisa and her grandma were really close and I imagine that they really enjoyed spending time together. So about three thirty PM that afternoon, Catarisa calls her mom and she's just like, Hey Ma, I'm getting ready to head out from grandma's home in a little bit. Dinner was delicious. They exchange a few more words and Catarisa, you know, she gives her grandma a hug, kiss on the cheek, and she's just like, All right, I'll I'll see you tomorrow, okay? So A few miles down the road, Teresa is standing at the bus stop because Catheresa used to get on the bus by her grandma's house and get off by her house. And so Teresa's waiting and the bus comes and she's just like, Okay, my baby's about to get off the bus. But Cataresa does not get off the bus because Cataresa is not on the bus. And Teresa said that she remembers that moment vividly, the bus coming up. Because she saw that Cateresa wasn't on the bus and she said instantaneously she knew something was wrong. But let's have a little hope. Maybe she just missed the bus. Maybe she just got on another one. Maybe by the time she walked over, the bus hadn't made it yet. So let's just let's just pipe down a little bit. And then another bus comes and she's not there. And then another bus comes and she's not there. And so Teresa confirms like. Okay. Cataresa should have been here by now. Like, I can't use this. Maybe she didn't get on the right bus. She called me. She said she was coming. And she's not here. So she confirms that Cataresa did leave her grandmother's house as promised, and then the sinking feeling grows in the pit of her stomach. She knew that something was wrong. And by 7 PM she called 911 to report Cataresa missing. And Teresa set out to do what any of us would do for our child. She searched. She searched parks, she searched alleyways, abandoned buildings, she put posters up all over the community. And Dixmore, I'm not sure if this is present there at this time, but Dixmore is a very small town. Like it's a town of 400 people. And everyone joined in. Like, where is Cateresa? So Thanksgiving passes, and 20 days later, on December 8th, 1991. A gentleman walking along Interstate 57 saw something very unfamiliar laying in a field. Allegedly, this man's name was Willie Randolph. And I'll tell you why that's interesting later. But also, that's an unconfirmed statement because 1991 and a lot of the reporting on this case was botched. I'm gonna be completely honest. Not sure what possessed him. And because let's talk about it. Like we're listening to the show, we're true crime people. It always interests me when someone is just like, I saw this bag laying there and I opened it. Excuse me? I saw some feet poking out and I went to look at it. If I see feet poking out, the best I can do for you is call nine one one and say, Hey, there's some feet poking out of the bushes here. I'm not confirming it's a person. They can confirm that. I'm not doing that. First of all, I don't want my name on your police report. I'm sorry to the missing, but I'll make sure you get found. I'm just not going to be the one to check the shrubbery for you. I have a perfect track record of not finding any dead bodies, and I want to keep it that way. So allegedly, Willie Randolph walks over to this unfamiliar thing laying in the field, and he realizes that it's a body. And not only was it a body, it was Cataresa's body. Cateresa was naked from the waist down. Her legs were propped open. There was obvious. trauma to her face and it appeared that he she had been shot. She was still wearing the same clothes that she left home in. Upon further investigation, it was determined that Cataresa died from a single gunshot wound from a 25 caliber pistol at a close range. So police arrive on the scene. They immediately take note of the trauma to Catarisa's head. You know, they take a note of the single gunshot wound that entered through her mouth and out the back of her head A pair of white panties was found around her right ankle and her jeans were draped across her chest. She was missing like a ring, a scarf, you know, I don't think she had her jacket on. But police, they took swabs of her vagina and rectum and noticed the presence of semen, and they collected it, you know, with their DNA kit and submitted it for processing. Of course, this was 1991 and DNA testing was not quite as prevalent as it is in today's day and age. So Cataresa Her case couldn't really move forward because they had nothing. There were no witnesses. Nobody hated Cateresa. It's not like, you know, no one hated her. She everybody knew her. She was a really great kid. The DNA matched no one. And so the police were just like, What are we gonna do? Like, we are having a hard time solving this case. I could not find any information on Cataresa's funeral or burial, but during an interview. Teresa Matthews, her mom, admitted to being so overcome and overwhelmed with grief that she just got it over with. And it took her years before she could visit Cataresa's gravesite. Like she just she could not bear it. So now we're gonna segue into the other part of our story. And before I get into that part, I have two facts that I wanted to add that I really when I tell you I was up so late doing this, I could not figure out how to Place this into the rest of the story, but I do want you to take note that Jonathan Barr and James Harden are brothers, and some of the boys went to school with Catarisa. So now it's a year later, it's October 1992, and police are just hitting brick wall after brick wall after brick wall after brick wall after brick wall. No arrests had been made, no leads, nobody saw anything, nobody knew anything, nothing. It was just silent. Until October 20th, 1992, when a 15-year-old Dixmore resident by the name of Keno Barnes notified police that him and Jonathan Barr were chilling one day. And Jonathan was just like they were just talking, they were having a conversation, and Jonathan was like, It's just crazy what happened to Cataresa. And he's Yeah, it's wild, right? And he's just like he was like, I saw her. She was getting into a car. And in the car was Robert Leville and Robert Taylor. Who would have been 14 years old at the time of Catarissa's disappearance. And apparently, Cataresa and the boys were friends from school. So police was like, okay, that's a valid connection. So police took his report, shook his hand, and got to work bringing the two boys in for questioning. Nine days later, on October 29th, 1992, Robert Veal was the first of the group to be brought in for questioning. Police questioned him for over five. Hours asking him again and again and again if he had anything to do with Catarisa's murder, which he denied. Now, Robert's life was not it was not easy peasy. Robert had severe developmental delays, which caused so many issues for him growing up and left him with the inability to learn in traditional education spaces. And you have to remember this is also 1991. So the alternative programs and the things and the resources that we have now. were not present back then. So there wasn't really a way to get him to assimilate into the type of student that he needed to be to succeed. So because of that, Robert's family made the hard decision to withdraw him from school because he just he was so developmentally delayed that he could not he couldn't do it. And so police are questioning this boy. He had no counsel present. And I'm not sure if his parents even knew he was at the police station being interrogated because they were not present in the room with him. Also, there's not really much information known about like his family life on the reports. So police tried everything to get Robert to confess. During the interrogation, they like hounded him over and over and over and over and over. He was subject to verbal abuse, physical abuse. And Finally th he's just like, Okay, like, yeah, I did it. Just please can I go? And police are just like, No, but I need you to sign this. And so they drafted a statement, handed it over to Robert V and he signed it. Records do not explicitly say that Robert didn't read the statement, but my thought process is if if he was so developmentally delayed that he could not even attend school or learn in a traditional educational setting How could he possibly understand what he was signing and what he was putting himself or the situation that he was putting himself in? How could he have known? In that statement that he signed, he implicated himself, Jonathan Barr, Robert Taylor, Shane Sharp, and James Harden as Catarisa's murderers. After police obtained his statement, Robert was formally charged with the rape and murder of Cataresa Matthews, and he was placed behind bars. Later that day, Robert Taylor was brought in for questioning. He too was alone. He had no legal representation, and his parents were not present. They asked him, What happened to Cataresa? Where were you when Cataresa was there? tell me what, tell me what we need to hear, boy. They flipped the script on him, and they're just like, Robert V already confessed. And he already put your name on it. He placed you at the scene of the crime with him. And so if you confess, you sign this little statement. See what we'll see what we can do, right? That's what they do. They lie. And so, with his back against the wall, no adult supervision, and it's looking like he's not getting out of this interrogation room anytime soon. Police draft a statement, slide it over to him, and they're just like. sign this and he's just like, okay, well if I sign it, can I just go back home? And they're just like, just sign it, buddy. And so he signs it and they whisk him off to jail. Shane Sharp was the next up. He was arrested and charged with Catarissa's rape and murder and waited over 21 hours in jail before he was questioned. His questioning was more or less of the same song and dance that ended with Shane signing a confession, also implicating him and the other four boys. Because of the three confessions pointing the fingers at them, James Harden and Jonathan Barr were subsequently arrested and the five sat in jail awaiting trial. After their arrest in nineteen ninety two, Officer Wilson Pierce of the Illinois State Police went on record stating quote, it's a shame that the youth have very little remorse for the loss of life. Robert V, Robert Taylor, Shane Sharp, Jonathan Barr, and James Harden sat in jail for over two years. years awaiting trial. In June nineteen ninety four, right before the boys were set to go to trial, the DNA results from the swabs obtained at the scene of the crime finally came back. The seamen recovered pointed to one male donor and did not match any of the boys in custody. Unfortunately that did no good in this case because the prosecution pushed forth for a trial and the teens and their attorneys got to work on their defense. Their attorneys noticed one thing right away. The signed confessions from Robert V, Robert Taylor, and Shane Sharp, none of them matched. Robert V had never even stepped foot in the field that Catarisa was found in. Additionally, times, locations, who did what were all different on all the confessions. So the confessions that they signed aren't public record, even though I feel like they should be. But or maybe they are and we just don't have them. But basically what their attorneys were saying was they like let's say in Robert V statement it says it was about four PM. Me and the other four, we were at the pizza place, and then we left the pizza place and we went over, we saw Catarisa walking, and then we shoved her in a car, took her out to the field. Mind you, none of the boys drove, okay? And then this is what happened. And then Robert Taylor's statement would say something like, It was four thirty. We were at the arcade when we saw Catarisa walking by and we grabbed her and we all got on the bus together. But when, you know, she went to get off, we dragged her off and took her over to the field. So, you know, all of the statements did not match. And so Robert Taylor and Jonathan Barr were the first up for trial. Based on doubts about the truthfulness of the confession, juvenile court judge Arthur Rosenblum refused to charge them. He refused to try them in criminal court. Robertville and Shane Sharp were up next, and they just went ahead and pled guilty. They were just like, We I don't know what to do here. Now they were offered a lighter sentence for pleading guilty, and in exchange for the lighter sentence, they were to testify against Robert Taylor, Jonathan, and James Harden, which they were just like. All right, we're looking at a lot of time. So if you can get me off in a shorter period of time, I'll say whatever you want me to say. During their sentencing, one of the investigators was asked, and quote, and during your conversations with Shane Sharp and Robert Veal, did they provide details to you that indicated to you that they had been at the murder scene? And the investigator explicitly said, Yes, they told me everything. So they were both sentenced to twenty years in prison. with the possibility of parole after 70 years. So remember how I told y'all a judge refused to try Robert T and Jonathan? Well, they, Robert V and Shane's testimony, stacked against them. The judge's decision was later reversed and it was appealed and heard by an appellate court judge, David Cerda, who reconfirmed the validity of the charges against them. He further went on to say that he felt like Judge Rosenblum abused his discretion of power when he denied the motion to take the boys to trial. Between 1992 and 1994, Robert Taylor, Jonathan Barr, and James Harden were all tried and found guilty. Robert Taylor and James were both sentenced to 120 years in prison, and Jonathan was sentenced to 85 years in prison. James said, I know you freaking lying. When I tell you, when I was reading the reports, James was making the most noise. James was like, I ain't do this. If they said I did this, that's on them. But I have proof I didn't do it. You know why? Because I live in my skin. And immediately, at the very moment he could, he started filing appeals. The first appeal he filed was to have the DNA evidence looked at again because he's like, How is this even possible when the DNA evidence showed that I was not there? He filed an appeal for postconviction DNA testing. That was denied. He filed an appeal to get the evidence looked at again. That was denied. He filed an appeal based on age and the fact that he I don't know, didn't commit the crime. That too was denied. And the days began to turn into months, which began to turn into years, which turned into a decade, which turned into almost two decades. And all of his appeals had been denied, and they were no closer to being released, despite the overwhelming evidence proving their innocence. Around 2002, after serving a 10-year sentence, Shane Sharp was released on parole and subsequently moved to Minnesota to get his life back on track. Go Vikings, I suppose. In August 2009, James is like, y'all, y'all are testing, y'all are testing the boys patience. Like, at this point, he is in his 30s and he's just like, I've been sitting here half of my life Didn't graduate high school, didn't get to go to college with my friends, didn't get like the world is moving on around them because think about it. They went to prison in 1992. It is now 2009. And life changed so much in that time. Like they missed like the tech era, like you know, the cell phones coming out. There was so much good music. They missed Tupac and Biggie. They missed East Coast versus West Coast. They missed no scrubs. They missed so much. Like I just feel like the the years of their life that they were supposed to be, I don't know, thriving. They sat in prison. And so now it's August 2009. Jame James once again filed an appeal to have the DNA evidence looked at. But this time, Robert Taylor and Jonathan Barr are just like, let's let's go into this together. So they file, you know, the appeal with him. So it comes across the judge's desk, and the judge is like, okay, that's fair. We can get their DNA re-examined. We can have the evidence looked at again. Not a problem. That process should have been fairly easy, right? Has anything in this story been straight and narrow? For over a year, the Dixmore Police Department continued to claim that they were unable to locate the evidence, you know, since it's from the 1900s and we're now in the 2000s. And eventually the judge got tired. She she was sick and tired of being sick and tired. Like she was over it. So Judge Michelle Simmons was like, let me tell you something right now. News flash buddy. You can either prov pr you can either prov what's the word I'm looking for? You can either release this evidence or I'm going to allow the defense counsel to come down to that station. and search for themselves. And you know what? They were just like You know, we'll we'll if listen, if we can't find it, fine, we'll let them look. And so she ordered it. They received an order, like they the defense can come in and look. And almost immediately they were like, huh. Hmm. What the would you look at that? Was this here the whole time? Was it here the whole time? my gosh. I didn't realize this was here the whole time. We found it. And so with this information, the defense requested, no, demanded that the DNA evidence be run through modern day software. The DNA profile was entered into the National Combined DNA Index System, or CODIS for short, and matched a full profile that was already in the system. So remember that man I was telling y'all about earlier, the man that allegedly found Caterisa's body and called the police, Mr. Willie Randolph? Well hold on to your wigs, friend, because it was his DNA. And why was mister Willie Randolph's DNA in CODIS? This is so rich. It is so rich. Mr Willie Randolph was a violent sex offender that lived less than a mile from Cataresa's residence. And he frequented the field that Cateresa was found in. So of course now they want to bring Mr. Randolph in for questioning. And they did not have to look far because Willie DePimp was already in prison serving a three year sentence for drug possession. The crack. He was caught with three Ziploc bags of crack. Crack cocaine. And if you think this was Lil' Willie's first charge, think again, buddy. Because Willie, who was 58 at this point in his life, has been in and out of prison f for most of his adult life. In 1990 in 1977, he pleaded guilty to a rape and served time for that rape. And the young lady that he was charged with raping gave birth to his son a year after his conviction. At the time of Catarisa's death in 1991, Willie was a 33-year-old man on parole for armed robbery. And again, he lived less than a mile from Cataresa's house, and he lived right in between her mom and her grandma's house. So the alleged story is Willie saw Cataresa walking to the bus stop. He shoved her into his car, drove out to the abandoned field, physically assaulted her, raped her, shot her once through the mouth, killing her. And took with him a ring, a scarf, and some of some articles of her clothing. In March 2011, with the new evidence proven as admissible, Judge Michelle Simmons vacated the convictions of Robert Taylor, Jonathan Barr, and James Harden. Now, if you think that they walked out of prison that day, once again, has anything in this story been on the up and up? It took an additional eight. months for the state attorney's office to say, you know, we were wrong in prosecuting you, and dismiss the charges. On November 3rd, 2011, Robert Taylor, Jonathan Barr, and James walked out of prison free and exonerated men. And get this, it was finally admitted that the police fed the boys non-published information about the investigation to get confessions out of them. Long story short, The police had no leads. They had nothing to go off of. And this is not a confirmed fact. This is just me talking out loud. I think that they felt the pressure to close the case because Teresa was not going down without answers. That was her baby. That is her baby girl. She is not going down without answers. And they had nothing to give her. And so I think when Keno Barnes was just like, Hey, Jonathan Barr said he saw her that afternoon. And Jonathan probably didn't even say, I saw her getting into a car with these two boys. He he probably was just like, I saw her get into a car. Me and these guys were hanging out, and I saw her getting into a car. And he took that and was just like, because I, you know, I'm sure there was reward money. I'm sure there was something. And so he took that and and ran with it. And I'm not blaming him because I don't know what he said to the police, but I think that they took just this little piece of information and they were just like, We got our guys and we're gonna stop at nothing. Even though all of the signs pointed to they did not do this, I think they just wanted to close the case. That is just that's my theory, anyway. All of the Dixmore five, except for Shane, applied to the circuit court for certificates of innocence, which were granted, qualifying each of them for approximately $200,000 in compensation under the Illinois Court of Claims Act. Y'all better get your schemonians. Even though, like, can they really be repaid for the time that they served? Let's be so for real. Now, Shane did not apply for the certificate of innocence because he had been back to jail since he was freed. and he was just like, you know what, I ain't even about to go down that road. After release, Robert Taylor said, quote, My life is still messed up. You can't erase all the time that I did. We were just kids. He went on to say that nothing, nothing, can give them those years back. In june twenty fourteen, Illinois Governor Pat Quinn announced that the state had reached an agreement to pay a forty million dollar settlement to the Dixmore five to settle civil suits filed against the department by the group. At the time of that settlement, Willie Randolph still had not been formally charged with the rape and murder of Cataresa Matthews. Willie Randolph was not officially charged with the crime until september first, twenty sixteen. When asked how she felt about having to go through another trial, Teresa Matthews said, quote, it's definitely bringing up old wounds again, which through the grace of God, I'm gonna go through every step I have to go through to get closure for my baby. The Dixmore Five served a total of 95 years behind bars. Which brings us to where are they now? In a true shocker, but I'm just like, at this point, is it really a shocker? Mr. Willie Randolph was acquitted. Of all charges pursued against him for the rape and murder of Cataresa Matthews during a bench trial. I promise the Lord I will stop cursing, but Willie Randolph can sincerely rot in hell. That's all I'm saying. He took this win and he countersued Cook County state attorneys Anaya Alvarez and Kimberly Fox. He said that they maliciously pursued a guilty verdict for him. And He's probably right, honestly. Because truth be told, because this investigation was so botched from the beginning, when it was assigned, when they picked up this case, attorneys Anaya Alvarez and Kimberly Fox, they they were on a manhunt. Like they were just like, no, we're gonna get it right this time. We're gonna cross our T's, dot our I's. We are going to make sure that the like we have your semen in her vagina and her rectum. Like you did something with this girl, and she was found dead. And as far as her mom is concerned, and You know, we can take that with a grain of salt because as far as most children's moms are concerned, they're not sexually active. But it was truly uncharacteristic for Cataresa to be having a secret relationship with a 33-year-old man that just got out of prison when literally she spent all of her time with her family. She didn't you know, when she went to the mall, she went with her friends sometimes, but she was usually with her mom. She was usually with grandma, like she was usually with her family. And so the question becomes, when in the three days leading up to her death did she have time to have consensual sex with Mr. Willie Randolph, you know? And so Willie Randolph, he sued and him and his lawyer, they came up with the case and they were just like, Willie was harassed. they want to pin this on him because of what happened with the boys, all the things, right? And when asked, like I said, about the semen in Catarisa, he was just like, No, we that was consensual. Like we we were a thing. Thankfully, the judge sided with the prosecution due to prosecutorial immunity, which is basically saying You can't sue a prosecutor for doing their job. And that's like if they were being egregious about it, I don't know if you guys saw Nemesis, I'm not gonna say too much, but if they were being Isaiah about it, I get it. But they were they were literally doing what they were supposed to do. So thankfully that suit went nowhere. Mr. Willie Randolph died. He can go to hell. Unfortunately, Jonathan Barr passed away in 2024 at the age of forty six when he was hit with a stray bullet during a mass shooting in a neighborhood in the south side of Chicago. Y'all don't play in Chicago. Y'all don't ever have to worry about me. We are cool. I have respect for y'all. And I'm a little scared of y'all because y'all have no value for life. Not and I'm not saying all of y'all, but I'm just saying. We're cool. As far I'm cool with Chicago. Y'all don't have to worry about me. Y'all are great people in my book. Y'all do not. Y'all do not have to worry about me. I'm not saying nothing bad about none of y'all. Y'all are Angels, as far as I'm concerned. Like I mentioned earlier, Shane Sharp did land himself back in jail on some drug charges, but he was released in 2012. Miss Teresa Matthews, you are in our thoughts and prayers. I feel like the system failed you and your baby, and I hate that this was your story. I do pray that that you got the closure you needed, even though it's like, how is that even possible, right? Something horrific happened to your daughter. Something horrific happened to your only daughter, your baby girl, and no one wants to take credit for it. And I just my heart goes out to you and I pray that you're thriving. I really do. And I I don't know if you're still living or not, but if you are, I do pray that you're thriving. Which brings me to my final thoughts. I feel like the police should be ashamed of themselves because as an adult, so the adults in this story were largely in their late 30s, right? Early to late 30s. I'll be 37 in a couple months. And I just can't see me, no matter how much I wanted to close a case, no matter how much I wanted to be done with something, no matter how much I wanted to make a thing that wasn't as if it As if it was, I could never, I could never trick a child into signing a statement implicating them of rape and murder. But even beyond that, I could never question a child without their parents present. You need guidance. You need help. You need someone to say answer this question, baby, or don't answer that question, baby. And you guys did not give them that chance. I'm not law enforcement, and I'm not even talking to anyone's kids without their parents' knowledge. I'm not talking to anyone's kids without other adults present. I'm just not. There's no I'm not talking to anyone's kids by myself. You all should be ashamed. What grown Decorated officer or detective is so hell-bent on closing a case that they target children off of a tiny piece of information. You didn't even investigate it properly. From the time that boy said no, of I mean, finish asking questions, but why are his why is his family not present? Why was his family not notified that he was there? Why were they not in the room with him? Why was he told that he could have a lawyer with him? Like, I'm just like, I just I don't understand. I don't understand. I don't understand. I don't understand. I don't understand. And I think that y'all should be ashamed of yourselves. I really, really do. I really, really do. I do find it strange and maybe it's just me. I I know I've mentioned this in the past, but my family's Caribbean. I'm a first generation American born Caribbean. And we didn't have like Like we talked about John Bene Ramsey, my mom and I, but a lot of like the things that happened, I didn't know. Like a lot of the black history that, you know, people like that black Americans received, I didn't get because my mom didn't know it. And it's not like, you know, back in the nineties we could just hop on Google and research. Like a lot of the information I know about black American history I learned in my adulthood through reading books. And so I don't know if this case was popular or not. I had just never heard about it. Until this year. And I was just like, that's crazy to me. This was a a grave injustice. And I just keep thinking about the fact that they went years. Like they never got to go to prom. They never, some of them didn't even get to go to high school, never got to go to college. They, you know, now one of them did, and I I'm so sorry I didn't write his name down. I think it was Jonathan Barr, but please take that with a grain of salt, had a son, like the year after he was released. And so, you know, they did go on and they did like live adult lives, but it's just like those formative years were snatched away from them. And they told you that they didn't do it, but you continuously said that they did. And I think that's foul. And I truly I know it was 20 plus years after, but I feel like everybody attached to that case should have been fired. But we know that law enforcement don't get fired like that. So that's neither here nor there. The information from today's episode was largely found thanks to the Innocence Project. Thank you all for all that you do. And if you guys aren't familiar with the Innocence Project, it's a nonprofit organization that takes a look at cases where they feel like the person that is in prison for it did not do it. So it's like cases that were tried and they were found guilty, but they were actually innocent. And so with the help of the Innocence Project, some of them retained private attorneys. Some of them, you know, were contacted by pro bono attorneys, like I would like to take this case for you because I'm gonna get you out. And so A lot of the information, like I said, on this case, the reporting was botched, the case notes are botched, like there's just so much. But the Innocence Project was able to kind of narrow down all of that information, which gave me a starting point to then search further. So thank you guys so much for that. Cause it took me a it took me longer than usual. Usually I set aside seven or eight hours per week. Depending on the case. If it's like a case where I have to comb through way more than that, I might do 10 hours. But I set aside seven to eight hours a week for researching. But this, this took like, my gosh, it took like 36 hours out of my week. But that's okay. That is why we're here. and I love it. I love, I love what I do. I love this podcast. I love what I do. I love the research work. Remind me I said that when I'm like knee deep in articles and case notes, and I'm just like, bruh, my eyes are turning. But that is the end of our show. Follow me on TikTok, Minor Mischief Pod, on Instagram, Minor Mischief Podcast. Wanna chit chat case suggestions? Wanna tell me you love it or hate it? Minor Mischief Podcast at gmail.com. Thank you guys. Like Even though my analytics are down, the traction is up. So thank you guys for listening. I will see you again next Thursday. And until then, stay mischievous, friends.