Latest / Coffee People Podcast / Coffee With Matthew Hankes, Heart Transplant Recipient (Bonus)

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Coffee With Matthew Hankes, Heart Transplant Recipient (Bonus) · Coffee People Podcast

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1:03
Good morning and welcome to coffee with.
1:06
I'm Ryan Walt. And this is the new podcast
1:08
where I have a cup of coffee with someone who has a good
1:12
story to share this episode. The very first is being
1:16
broadcast across all the roast West Coast platforms, including
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other podcasts, like coffee smarter and coffee.
1:23
People, we're doing that for two reasons.
1:26
First, we want to get the word out that this new podcast
1:30
exists. Secondly, I think it's a really
1:33
good interview and our guest today has legitimately changed.
1:37
The way I look at the world. You can also find the coffee
1:40
with podcast on roast westcoast.com or wherever you
1:44
listen to Great podcasts just search for coffee with.
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You can also find any of the links we reference in today's
1:50
show in this podcasts show notes.
1:53
And in the Newsletter, which is found at roast westcoast.com.
1:57
However, you got here today, I'm glad you did.
2:00
Because this first episode of coffee with features, my
2:03
conversation with Matthew hankiss mat is a physical
2:07
therapist from Post Falls Idaho. He's a pretty normal guy who
2:11
enjoys being outdoors spending time with his family, including
2:14
his wife, and two children. And he recently went through
2:17
something truly incredible. He had a heart transplant.
2:22
I know the weight of that may not come through in podcast
2:26
form. So I'm going to say it one more
2:28
time, he had a heart transplant, his chest was opened a bum,
2:33
heart was removed, and another more better heart installed all
2:38
the veins and ventricles and who knows what else were connected
2:41
before. Finally, the surgeons closed his
2:43
chest. That is mind-blowing to me in so
2:46
many ways. I'm grateful that Matt is here
2:49
to share more about his experience, leading up to the
2:51
event, what the day was like and how things look from the other
2:56
side. One other thing, Matt enjoys, at
2:59
least I think he does is the occasional cup of coffee or a
3:03
beer on the porch with this cousin's, husband, full
3:06
disclosure, that's me. When I was just thinking about
3:10
making this show, I made a considerably long list of
3:13
potential guests. It's to launch with, but Matt.
3:16
And his story were the one that made me want to take the leap.
3:20
So pour yourself, a mug and have a coffee with me and Matt Henkes
3:24
heart transplant recipient. Mr. Matt Henkes, welcome to this
3:35
inaugural episode of coffee, with you being the with, I've
3:40
been mulling over the idea of the show where I talk to people
3:42
outside of the coffee industry for a minute, but I wasn't
3:46
really sure who I should talk to, who should be the first
3:49
guest. I was thinking someone who could
3:51
make an impact, you know, like an astronaut or a famous athlete
3:55
political activist. Someone like really important
3:58
then in the middle of the night, it hit me.
4:01
What if it was someone who was just Normal.
4:04
And I say that not as a slight, or to reduce your stature, but
4:07
someone who had gone through something extraordinary that has
4:10
given them, you know, an opportunity to share a story
4:13
that could have some real impact and you were the obvious choice,
4:17
your family. And someone I care about and I
4:20
know a little bit about your story I also admit that my
4:22
thought process wasn't as cohesive as I may have just
4:24
implied but either way it got me to where we are now which is me
4:28
having a cup of coffee with you and I should start by asking.
4:33
Asking, are you drinking coffee? And can you even drink coffee
4:36
right now? And I'll get into the, why of
4:37
that in a minute? Sure.
4:39
Yeah. Well, I'm back in the coffee
4:41
game, which is great. I was drinking n a coffee for
4:44
the last year because I couldn't have the caffeine related to
4:47
some heart problems. So I'm back in the full gravity
4:50
so it's nothing fancy but we're just folders and Dunkin Donuts
4:53
people so well I am drinking something a little bit fancier,
4:58
I'm drinking a cup of craft 42 Roasters out of British.
5:03
Near you Kelowna, British Columbia Europe in Idaho.
5:06
They sent me this and I made it in a clever dripper this
5:08
morning. And I did an okay job of it.
5:10
I want to get into some Basics, one.
5:13
What's your name? Where do you live?
5:14
What do you do? All right.
5:16
Well, my name is Matt Henkes. I'm 40 years old, I live.
5:19
In Coeur. D'Alene Idaho.
5:21
I'm a physical therapist by profession.
5:24
I'm a husband. I'm a father of two girls.
5:28
My daughter. Hannah is 6 and our daughter.
5:31
Elise will be a 11 years old. Here next next week.
5:34
So yes. Hannah is a an absolute riot and
5:38
I believe is lost some teeth recently which has caused some
5:41
some pretty intense family video chats.
5:45
Yeah, there was a lot of buildup into that to falling out and
5:47
that for me happen, quite the event Let's start with one
5:52
really important fact of why we're talking today which is
5:55
you. Recently had a heart transplant.
5:57
They opened up your chest. They took one heart out.
6:00
They put another one in. How long has it been since the
6:04
actual transplant? Yeah, so I had my heart
6:08
transplant on February 4th of this year.
6:10
So I am nine and a half weeks out from the transplant surgery
6:14
and it's been an amazing journey since you know, to put it very
6:19
simply, it's an engines. Up if we can, we can tell now
6:23
one of the most complicated surgeries in the world, those an
6:25
engine swap. So they took out a diseased
6:27
heart that I was born with and put in a donor heart.
6:31
That is in much healthier shape. That will serve me.
6:35
Hopefully many, many years to come.
6:37
Well, you said it was a disease Target that you were born with,
6:39
but you didn't know. Your parents didn't know you
6:41
were born with this this condition which I believe is
6:45
called a RVC. Can you tell us what that is?
6:48
And and then when did you find out there was A problem with
6:51
your heart. Yeah, acronym are.
6:53
VC is arrhythmia genic, right? Ventricular cardiomyopathy and
6:57
to break that down in terms arrhythmia jenica means that it
7:01
has the ability to cause arrhythmias or abnormal heart
7:04
rhythms, which has led to. When I had this condition where
7:07
they implanted a defibrillator to control that Rhythm the RV is
7:11
right ventricle. So the more focus on the right
7:13
side of the heart which is where the electrical wiring if you
7:17
will lived. And then cardiomyopathy is just
7:19
a blanket term of heart. Use the type of condition that
7:22
it is a cardiomyopathy. So arv, see is what I've dealt
7:26
with. Since I was 15.
7:27
I passed out in a high school football game which ultimately
7:31
was a ventricular tachycardia or one of those arrhythmias.
7:34
And if those aren't stopped either through just pure luck,
7:39
which happened in my case or they're converted with like an
7:42
AED. Oftentimes the person will die
7:46
from that event because their heart rate is going so fast.
7:48
There's no Oxygen to the brain on paper.
7:50
Paper around electrical Rhythm, it's four or five hundred beats
7:53
a minute and at that point your heart just Quivers and there's
7:55
no ability to move blood. So if that were to go on long
7:58
enough without correction, that could be fatal.
8:01
Wow, I'm not assuming that you remember that moment of
8:04
collapsing but have you heard what that was like for people
8:08
there? He said it was during a football
8:09
game so it was a public place. Yeah.
8:12
A few coaches that kind of saw me drop and were the first
8:15
people out there, it was in a very rural part of Wisconsin.
8:17
So there wasn't you know the Friday Night Lights with the And
8:20
we unscrew available and things like that.
8:22
So just again, grace of God, I came out of a tachycardia that
8:27
should have had a different outcome.
8:29
And ultimately my parents thankfully we're a little late
8:32
finding the field so they didn't see that first quarter event
8:35
which I was grateful for then and really still a that would
8:38
have been pretty dramatic to see a kid just drop.
8:41
So I would imagine it would have had a lot of impact on your
8:44
coaches and your teammates and and kind of anyone in that area.
8:48
Do you remember what sort of emotion kind of Of went into
8:51
finding out, I'm sure you were confused and scared at the time,
8:54
but when you found out you had, this are VC.
8:57
Did you know, did they tell you then?
8:59
I mean, this would have been in the 90s that you would probably
9:02
need a heart transplant someday. How did that impact you as a
9:06
teenager? Yeah, 15 at the world couldn't
9:09
hurt you. You know, you're Invincible in
9:10
terms of this was a little thing.
9:12
You shrug off, you know, what happened in the fall, and I was
9:14
looking forward to getting ready for baseball season which is my
9:17
primary sport. So, certainly didn't realize the
9:20
impact of Of the magnitude of a condition like this in your
9:22
life. So when that aspect probably
9:24
downplayed the severity of it, but I didn't know at the time
9:26
that management was medication and in my case a defibrillator
9:30
to stop those rhythms and then either my parents got the
9:34
conversation right drifted over my head but ultimately this will
9:37
lead to heart failure where the muscle itself weakens aside from
9:41
the Rhythm issues and that can shorten the longevity of your
9:45
native or, you know, born heart in that sense.
9:49
A defibrillator in the 90s and it's essentially like a
9:53
electrical pack that shocks your heart back in the movement,
9:56
right? Am I understanding that
9:57
correctly? That's implanted.
9:59
So I mean a lot of times I use the term pacemaker that people
10:02
understood that part and more but it was implanted in my chest
10:05
with a wire. Going into my heart that it
10:06
would both sense a tachycardia happening and then could deliver
10:10
a shock through that wire into the heart to essentially do what
10:13
the paddles do on any medical show you've ever watched but
10:16
from an internal standpoint, Do you could you explain maybe what
10:20
it feels like for that to happen?
10:23
Yeah, the first time it happened was, it was in a gym class
10:28
setting with, you know, 20 guys fooling around.
10:30
So I thought someone threw a basketball Square in my shoulder
10:33
blades and hit me. But then I realized it was one
10:35
of those events that had happened and it was kind of this
10:38
mixed feeling both of impending doom because you're in a rhythm
10:42
where the lights are going to go out because, you know, you're
10:44
going to faint, but also needing that shock to prevent that from
10:47
happening, but But the fear also of their being that's pretty
10:51
painful thump in your chest, that's just wild to be.
10:55
Thinking he could be walking along and all of a sudden
10:57
something hits you from the inside.
11:00
I'm assuming that a 90s defibrillator wasn't as small
11:03
and efficient as maybe a more recent one was okay.
11:07
Yeah it was like the 1990s Boombox, you just lug it on your
11:10
shoulder, wasn't quite that big. But I have I have actually
11:14
retained all four of them I've ever had in me.
11:16
And there is a little bit of a decrease.
11:18
Sighs over the last 25 years so it's a weird thing to collect
11:21
for people but I thought it was kind of part of my journey and
11:23
I've asked for them after every replacement, if I could retain
11:26
them. So they have shrunk with time
11:28
but you know, they're very life-saving things that is that
11:32
really the safest way to keep someone alive has a tachycardia
11:35
history. Wow, little off topic.
11:38
But I just learned yesterday that if you have a limb
11:41
amputated, and there's not really anything wrong with the
11:43
limb that was amputated. For some other reason you can
11:46
ask to keep the limb and they will provide I did it for you.
11:49
I'm not sure how you store it just in the fridge next to that
11:52
first Fisher kid caught. I'm not really sure but it is
11:54
possible to ask for it. The world of Taxidermy has come
11:57
a long way as you just never know, life a life then goes on,
12:03
you have a defibrillator. Your teenager did this as you
12:07
started getting older and you're going into college and you're
12:09
starting more serious relationships.
12:12
Eventually you're talking about having kids with your partner.
12:16
Did this change choices? You made is you Older or did
12:19
that kind of 15 year olds like, this isn't going to hurt me.
12:21
I don't want to acknowledge it attitude sort of continued
12:24
throughout or how did it affect you as you were moving through
12:28
the stages of Life? Yeah, I think I think I've
12:31
changed my course and two specific areas in terms of
12:34
activity. I did kind of rain in my
12:38
intensity level of exercise. You know, it's playing High
12:40
School sports and into college was playing baseball, which is
12:44
baseball, is baseball, which I love, but by way of, was it
12:46
worth the risk and the I'm getting shocked playing sports.
12:49
That was an easy decision to give up because I had several
12:52
events where I try to stretch stretch, a single into a double,
12:54
and that was enough to kind of fast forward the Rhythm to throw
12:57
it into a tachycardia. So I come up from a slide at
13:00
second and also not feel my heart racing and then three
13:03
seconds later, a big thump and my day was over and at some
13:06
point probably age 20 21 I said, is this worth it?
13:09
And just said I'm going to change how I how I play and it
13:12
was more I would say lower intensity stuff with just
13:16
general cardio exercise and Skiing where I could control
13:20
kind of some of those things. So it was a decision made to
13:23
just not have that pain and that risk in my life, from an
13:26
activity standpoint and then I would say the other area to
13:29
that. I've modified at the time was
13:31
looking at my career, I went into college for athletic
13:34
training which is Sports Medicine, helping athletes, but
13:37
that can involve emergency life-saving things on a field.
13:39
And ultimately, I realized with my condition that could progress
13:43
throughout my career, I didn't want to ever let my inability to
13:46
get across a field for an injured kid.
13:48
Jeopardize. Someone's safety or health?
13:51
Again, working at football games at the professional level player
13:54
went down. And, you know, we were able to
13:56
get to him at Midfield which wasn't a long run.
13:58
But that was one of those events were really dawned on me that if
14:03
I'm not able to get there, I could put someone's life at risk
14:06
from that. And that's when I shifted a
14:07
little bit more into the physical therapy field, which is
14:09
where I am today, just from a controlled standpoint.
14:12
That I mean clinic, and there's not some of those immediate
14:14
responses that would be needed based on my heart condition that
14:17
could be Interest for me or others and you mentioned the
14:20
professional level. I just wanted to throw it out
14:22
there that you were at one time. I believed in intern for the
14:25
Green Bay Packers probably the greatest football team in the
14:28
history of the game. You you had that experience and
14:31
you saw athletes at that level at any point during this kind of
14:34
early phase where you're starting to make these truly
14:37
life-changing decisions about career and what you know you
14:40
want sports are going to play, is there a part of you that is
14:43
angry or resentful about this or confuse?
14:45
Like why is this happening to me or did you just Kind of accept
14:49
it. This is my life and I'm moving
14:50
forward. I think that's one emotion.
14:53
I never really had was anger or like I said, resentment about
14:57
the condition I even with us, I feel like I've lived and I'm
15:00
living such a good life that I've been blessed with things
15:02
that I would say even in spite of a condition that is really
15:06
life-changing again so many good things from it.
15:09
I mean I how the Stars aligned that I changed my profession
15:12
that let me meet my wife and start a family.
15:15
Like that's an upside of what would have that happened from
15:18
Um, making that switch. So, even what I would consider
15:21
the little things related to this condition which CLIA become
15:24
a huge thing that way of a transplant.
15:26
I still it's what it called us. A net gain and everything was
15:29
really good that this brought into my world.
15:32
I mean, that's that's great to say today, but I feel like in
15:35
the moment it's a little bit more of like keeping an eye on
15:38
the ball. Like a this this could turn into
15:40
something good someday but it's impressive to hear you say that.
15:43
But I'm also sitting here going like, I don't think I'd be
15:46
mature enough or, you know, emotionally mature enough to say
15:49
in the moment when I could do something I wanted that will
15:52
this will probably work out. Yeah, and maybe there's an
15:55
element of naivety or I'm just like this would be fine.
15:57
Everything is great there again or that invincibility that comes
16:00
with being a teenager but very few things in life has prevented
16:04
me from doing honestly. I've modified things to still be
16:08
able to ski. I mean, there's many other
16:10
conditions out there that have far greater impact on their
16:13
daily function. And I think I either was blessed
16:17
with how how minimally impactful my condition was compared to.
16:23
Others course. With a RVC, but I still just
16:25
went for it. I mean, I ski I hunt.
16:28
I hike I do things that probably some electrophysiologists would
16:31
shake their head and say you should pick up chess But
16:34
ultimately I think I'm glad I did what I did and that course,
16:37
can't be re-written that got me to the point of transplant.
16:40
A few years ago it was should start by saying you mentioned at
16:43
the top of this that you were born with this condition even if
16:46
you didn't know it, your brother also had this condition and went
16:49
through a transplant, several years ago.
16:51
So you had the ability to kind of see the trance.
16:54
Plant process up close or at least you know through him and
16:58
communicating with him. How did that impact you or how
17:00
did that prepare you for what? You would eventually go through?
17:03
Yeah, so my brother is this week actually three years out from
17:07
his transplant I've called Jesse my lead blocker.
17:10
Since I knew that I was on the list for a transplant, I've seen
17:12
him go through it. I've seen the challenges that
17:14
came with it for him and I've seen the successes and his life
17:17
since you can read about anything online of someone's
17:20
experience, but I think it pulls so much more weight when it's
17:22
your brother that's gone through it.
17:24
And oddly enough, we share a parent's.
17:25
So because of that, we can see how effects mom and dad and this
17:29
is their second goal of it. So this was, I think a different
17:32
scenario and many different in many different ways, but
17:35
ultimately they've been through this once with a song that's
17:37
going through Transportation. So they had an idea of what's
17:40
coming ahead when you were put on the transplant list, when do
17:45
they make that determination? Where they say, look, you've
17:47
gone as far as you can go with this heart, we got to do
17:49
something. How do you go from?
17:51
Not being on the list of being on the list.
17:53
And then, How long were you on the list?
17:56
So 2022 is your everything had changed.
17:59
So it happened quite abruptly. I was even in January, I was out
18:04
hunting and need deep snow up some hills.
18:07
I was working pretty hard physically in that condition and
18:11
then in February, when I got sick as a result, I struggle
18:14
with a flight of stairs or walking with any Pace across, a
18:17
grocery store parking lot. So, it really went in the tank
18:21
quickly and they eluded to that at the and Center that when
18:24
people are younger and have systems around the heart that
18:28
work, well, you can compensate for a long time until you're so
18:31
sick that I say, the ball rolls off the cliff at that point, I
18:33
just got really sick. And that was a result with how
18:36
physically limited I was what I felt like in a blink.
18:39
But it's been a long time coming.
18:41
So February 22, I was hospitalized.
18:43
And as a result, the, I'm at the heart transplant team at Sacred
18:46
Heart in Spokane. Washington, and the conversation
18:49
essentially, was, you've a very sick heart and I think it would
18:53
be in your best interest. Just to start listing now for
18:55
transplant because one of the elements of having this heart,
18:59
be yours is how long you've waited for it in tiebreak
19:01
situations. The person that's been on the
19:03
list longer would get the Same Heart of.
19:05
It could serve two people that are the same tier of waiting,
19:10
you say, tear of waiting. And I just want to clarify that,
19:13
that refers to essentially, like somebody who's been waiting
19:16
longer, maybe in a different level of Health, a different age
19:19
bracket, a different location, even, I mean, what am I missing
19:23
there? That's right on.
19:24
So in the heart transplant World they have status as one through
19:28
six status. One is someone that's
19:30
hospitalized on mechanical assistance.
19:33
That is very very ill that could be having a bad outcome and days
19:37
to weeks if they don't get a heart.
19:39
And that of course, is down to number six, where someone has
19:41
heart failure, it's on their map but they're not imminently in
19:45
need of a heart. So, they're just on this waiting
19:47
list accruing time for when a heart could become available.
19:50
I was a status for, for the entire duration of My waiting
19:54
list which was 10 months until I received a heart.
19:57
So status for is the sickest and most critical person in an
20:01
outpatient setting. And I never one of my goals was
20:04
to never become a status 3, not that I had a lot of control in
20:07
it but with that would mean as you're likely admitted on
20:09
medications or some other supportive measures that would
20:13
require hospitalization and my goal internal drive, whatever
20:17
you like to call, it was to be with my family until the day.
20:20
I got the call I didn't want to have this be any greater.
20:24
Then it needed to be up until the transplant.
20:26
That's ultimately what transpired was dropped.
20:29
My daughter off at school in the morning, went to work and was on
20:31
my way to pick her up. When I got the phone call that
20:34
we have a match for you. I mean it's just sounds like
20:38
insanity to me that you you don't know when this call is
20:41
coming. It could come at any time but
20:43
you kind of have to just keep living your life in the moment
20:45
when that call comes in. What is that moment?
20:48
Like, is it relief? Is it fear?
20:51
Is it? Because everything is going to
20:53
change as I the process from the way I understand.
20:56
I understand it from you and just from some of the reading I
20:58
did before the show is that you get the call and that's like
21:02
this transplant is happening. Now today tomorrow like within
21:05
the next 24 hours or so because that heart that they're putting
21:08
into you is only viable for so long and if it's not going into
21:11
you it's going to go into someone else.
21:13
Is that that correct? And then how did that call feel
21:16
for you when you got it in the car?
21:18
That's it. And I feel that this transplant
21:21
group did a great job of preparing you for the Medical
21:24
and the physical sides of it and they try to do their best to
21:27
help with the emotional side. But that's an internal battle.
21:30
I think knowing that when literally, when your name is
21:32
throwing the Hat of a waiting list, it could happen that
21:35
night. If somehow the match process
21:38
lined up for you, or you could wait two years and that's really
21:42
the internal battle is every 509 phone number.
21:45
I got, that's the area code for Spokane.
21:47
Holy cow, could this be it? And at that point, you know the
21:50
phone ring and you jump and some of their rules?
21:52
Are you never turn your phone off?
21:53
And you never go out of service without communicating it with us
21:57
and where we live in the mountains.
21:58
If I go with 30 minutes in two different directions, I lose
22:01
cell signal. So we were essentially grounded
22:04
to stay within 30 miles of home for the 10 months that we
22:07
waited, just because I didn't feel that there was a weekend
22:10
trip, that would justify going off the list.
22:13
If that could have been your weekend to get the call, it just
22:15
was such a great priority that we made ourselves available
22:19
every day for the 10 months. You said you got the call where
22:24
you were in the car? I mean, I don't know how you
22:26
don't like, run into a stop sign or something at that point, they
22:29
tell you. Yeah, they tell you to pull
22:31
over, breathe, take it, easy and I grab a pen and paper in my
22:35
truck just like a jot down some notes because I knew I would,
22:38
this would blow over in the history of my experiences.
22:41
I wanted to document what I could.
22:42
In terms of the nitty-gritty details, I have expected you to
22:46
say, you reached into the back of the truck and grabbed a
22:48
Miller Lite, this is I do after all.
22:50
What is anything? Showing up a little junk from
22:53
transplants and Dad starting point.
22:56
Well, you wouldn't get that bad off of Miller Lite.
22:58
I want to talk to you a little bit about this transplant.
23:00
Donor list, you said that they recommended you.
23:03
Throw your name on that list or get your name on that list
23:06
because how long you're on it impacts?
23:08
You know, if you're the next one up essentially, which I'll be
23:12
honest. When I first said that my my
23:14
response was like well, that's kind of a little political
23:17
strategy. They're like, you know, should I
23:18
go on it before like a day before or a week before?
23:21
Oh, I probably could or a month, you know, whatever.
23:24
But what is this list? Actually a list of and is this
23:29
list available to the public? How do you get on it?
23:31
I'm assuming it's just essentially two lists, you know,
23:34
people who need hearts and people who are willing to give
23:36
one. If the opportunity arises, do
23:39
you apply for it? Did they decide if you go on it
23:41
for you? What is that?
23:43
That like, yes. So, each organ, transplant site.
23:47
And, of course, I'm speaking hard specific based on my
23:50
experience. So the heart It's Point team in
23:52
Spokane. Doesn't work up and says this
23:54
patient, in our eyes qualifies for transplantation or does not.
23:59
And thankfully I was someone that was a suitable candidate to
24:01
receive a heart. So when they finish their work
24:03
up, they list me on that 126 statuses, and this is where
24:07
you'll begin. So I was a status for.
24:09
So there's an organization that handles the allocation of the
24:13
heart and that's, you know, so that's United Network for organ
24:16
sharing. So they're essentially the
24:18
people that control the list in terms of when a heart becomes
24:21
available. Available into the pool who gets
24:24
it. How does that happen?
24:25
So they utilize a lot of different features in terms of
24:28
matching Criterion, right? A common one is blood type.
24:33
My body would resist a heart that is the wrong blood type so
24:36
that would certainly disqualify an available heart to specific
24:41
candidates because it wouldn't match.
24:42
And then it goes down from there.
24:43
In terms of size of the donors body, for the sake of chest,
24:47
cavity needs to be a new match because that will have a role in
24:50
with that heart fit in. The recipients body and I only
24:54
know a very, very slight amount of the matching characteristics,
24:57
but the other Big 12 is antibodies, which is in your
25:00
life. What has my body fought back
25:02
against? That would now create antibodies
25:04
that would resist if a donor heart has the same antibodies.
25:07
So I was really lucky in the sense that my antibody panel was
25:11
Zero, meaning I've got none in my body.
25:12
So based on that, I can take any which heart and I know another
25:16
person in the program that had a 90% antibody panel.
25:20
So only 1 in 10 hearts, They come available, theoretically
25:23
would work for him so that was a blessing in the sense of my body
25:26
was really readily available to accept heart with any antibody
25:30
profile. So you knows would have me
25:34
entered as a candidate and their database.
25:35
And then when a heart becomes available they enter everything
25:38
into the database and that does it.
25:40
Smart thing on the computer side and finds potential matches the
25:43
way it works. In terms of a location, is they
25:44
start nearest the location of the donor?
25:49
A big factor in the success of transplant is How long does it
25:52
take to go from donors body and to mind?
25:55
And obviously, so that step could be essentially removed if
25:58
they did in the same city where the donor bodies living.
26:01
So it's this concentric circle of rings, how they look at
26:05
distribution. So the way they start first is
26:08
what's just pick San Diego, where you're located.
26:10
So if there was a donor in San Diego, they would start in the
26:13
San Diego area with status 1 and 2.
26:15
People, the sickest people in that location, if there's not a
26:19
match with that or programmers, not excited to accept that.
26:21
Heart, then it would go to one and two and a bigger geographic
26:24
area. If again, at that point, no one
26:27
needs it. They go back into statuses
26:29
threes and fours and your area. So it's kind of this shrinking,
26:33
expanding range, going all the way out to eight hours away,
26:36
potentially that could utilize this heart.
26:39
And that's how someone that would be a status 6th may get a
26:41
hard. As it is, played this game and
26:43
no one locally needs it, and is expanded to a less severe less
26:47
critical person. So, that's kind of how the game
26:51
if you can. With that is formulated to get
26:53
the heart to the right people that are the sickest.
26:56
I'm immediately thinking of strategies, if I were a person
26:59
in need what I move closer to a place that is near a surgical
27:03
center. You happen to live near one
27:05
which is coincidental but you do.
27:07
Would I potentially look at places where there's more car
27:10
accidents, you know, what would be the situation if you're that
27:13
desperate? Like to think about it, I would
27:14
imagine there are people who, who do make that choice and say,
27:18
well, I'm going to move somewhere closer to this
27:21
facility. Leti because my odds will get
27:24
better. Yeah, exactly locally.
27:27
One of my colleagues, her uncle lives nearly on the Canadian
27:30
border and Idaho and they're there in really remote spot
27:35
where that would be tough. So he ultimately chose to list
27:37
at Cedar Sinai in La so he lived in an apartment for four months
27:41
in Los Angeles. Just waiting for his call to
27:43
come and thankfully he got it and he's back in, beautiful
27:47
North Idaho doing great but he made that decision to go into a
27:50
larger metro area where Theoretically more donors become
27:53
available. You just look at the statistics
27:54
of where people are congregated and Southie.
27:57
More deaths are going to occur whether it's seven million
27:59
people with more, there's 1 million that's the option they
28:02
chose to take. We, you know, a combination of
28:05
think of our gut feel with this program as well as how it was
28:09
less impactful in the life of a family with two little kids or
28:13
at that point, you know, we were still pregnant, making these
28:17
decisions. So it was looking ahead, is this
28:20
where we want to be and I think it was A great decision.
28:22
As ice has played out, but we just felt that we were confident
28:25
that we would get a heart in this location without having to
28:27
play the game of moving to a bigger city year on the
28:31
recipient side, obviously. Who is on the donor side of
28:37
things and I say that a little bit tongue-in-cheek, I thought I
28:40
was on a donor list but I recently made sure that I was
28:44
and I know. So I know how that goes and I'll
28:46
share that obviously after the show and links and everything.
28:48
But who are the people that are on that donation side?
28:52
That ultimately were the reason you got a heart and how did they
28:56
get there? So one of the most common ways
28:58
you can get signed up is through your local DMV, that's a very
29:02
straightforward process to make the Session to be an organ
29:05
donor, another website, that is very user-friendly, is donate
29:09
life dotnet and that has easy links to getting yourself signed
29:13
up and available to become an organ donor.
29:15
So that's kind of the process of if you're deciding to make that
29:19
choice to donate your organs. If you were to pass away, that's
29:22
the channel that you would go about it.
29:25
So the gentleman that passed away, made the decision to
29:27
become an organ donor, most likely prior to his accident or
29:31
whatever led to his passing. So So, when I'm going to
29:35
interrupt you, I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but you
29:38
say presumably, you don't know who this person is.
29:41
They don't tell you, right? And that's one of the I would
29:44
say the backbones of, you know, says to maintain Integrity of
29:47
the donors family is that there's never any direct way for
29:51
me to communicate with them to express loss or thanks or any
29:55
which way or to reach out to find out how things happen or
29:58
how they live their life. That's I think a very important
30:00
part of what you know is does is to provide that anonymity to
30:04
That maybe are on the fence about donation.
30:06
As one reason why they might say, let's just keep this
30:09
totally Anonymous and they're essentially the intermediary.
30:12
If I would like to write a letter to the donors family, I
30:15
ride it through, you know, us and they would deliver it to
30:18
them in that fashion. So that it's there's always that
30:21
safety net of never having to speak directly until they can
30:24
make that decision if they like to or not.
30:26
And I ultimately respect whichever way they like to move
30:29
forward by distill as part of my healing process.
30:32
I would like to thank them for the Sacrifice that they made by
30:36
the decision to donate an organ. And just really express my
30:41
sadness, jointly, just for the loss of a family member before,
30:46
I was so rudely interrupted. You, you were talking about the
30:49
donor, who gave you your heart and that presumably, he had made
30:52
a choice to donate an organ. And we had said that you can you
30:55
can get on the list, through a website, like, Donate Life
30:59
dotnet, or at your DMV, but you also mentioned his family.
31:03
And just Would their involvement?
31:05
Presumably if the situation were complicated on there and that
31:10
they also are making a choice or they are also having to come to
31:13
grips with the fact that part of him is going to continue on
31:16
somewhere else hopefully. And they may not know where that
31:19
is obviously, as well. Now that you have this new
31:22
hardened you for the last nine and a half weeks is that
31:27
something you're kind of continually aware of?
31:29
I know, obviously that things change over time and you're
31:31
still going through this process of of recovery which we'll talk
31:35
about in a minute. But how often are you thinking
31:38
about the fact that someone else gave up this heart for you?
31:41
I think it's on a daily basis. I think of the gift I've
31:45
received and it can be something really little.
31:47
It can be, it can be a profound moment, you know, from doing
31:52
experience with my family since it's like I'm living because of
31:54
someone else's hard and ultimately They are keeping me
31:59
alive to just to continue to do what I'm doing.
32:03
It can be something as small as right now.
32:05
I'm in cardiac rehab and I feel like you know I'm trying to
32:08
progressively strengthen and get my my body back to where it can
32:12
be at its optimal, cardiovascular standpoint and
32:16
there's been times on a treadmill or an elliptical or
32:18
I'm working out and I'm tired. I want to quit and it's
32:20
something where this is your on bonus time in life because
32:25
you've received an organ when you Could have been gone so
32:29
don't don't quit on something. When that's easy out is continue
32:32
to work for this. I want to get back into the the
32:36
process of the heart transplant. You get the call, you had to
32:39
Spokane to the heart transplant center.
32:42
You know, your family is going through a bunch of logistics,
32:44
trying to figure out where they're all going, what's
32:46
happening? When how much of the science of
32:48
this process? Did you understand or is it
32:51
possible to even explain? I mean, we talked about it being
32:53
an engine replacement but it's a little more complicated than
32:56
that. I'm not expecting you to explain
32:58
it the way a doctor would. But when you went under, did you
33:01
understand what was happening? What sort of Of complications
33:05
could have stopped it from being successful at.
33:07
My understanding is there's a chance they could have gotten
33:10
you on the table and decided. We're not even going to do this.
33:13
You don't know what's going to happen for sure.
33:17
What was that like being there at the hospital?
33:19
Getting ready for this to happen, not knowing, you know,
33:23
where's this going to go? Yeah, I mean they and they do
33:26
prep you for that, in terms of this can be 99% ready to go.
33:30
And there's a, there's a last-minute curveball that stops
33:33
the process and I appreciate their, they're strict standards
33:36
to say. We find something that would
33:38
say, this isn't an optimal match, and we need to pause on
33:41
the transplant and they call that a dryer.
33:43
Excuse me. They called it a dry run in the
33:46
Profession where you may even get to the point of being
33:49
sedated and they have the heart next to yours on the table and
33:52
they say pause. There's there's a valve issue or
33:56
there's something that would say, this isn't a good fit and
34:00
that point they would just bring you out of sedation and say
34:02
we're sorry, but we found something right before we're
34:05
going to put this heart in you, that wasn't a suitable fit and
34:08
that would be, I think devastating to experience it.
34:10
But I think once that the rawness of that event, cool.
34:13
I think you'd be thankful that they ultimately Still looking at
34:17
your best interest in mind and this as hard as it was, wasn't
34:20
the best fit. That's something they have you
34:23
plan on to East, think through, in case, we're happened to
34:25
happen. But ultimately, in my case, they
34:28
prepped me and said, you know, where the, the heart is on its
34:32
way, we're going to get you ready.
34:33
And then that's the last I remembered from the, the front
34:37
side of this procedure. Do you remember what your last
34:41
thoughts were before you fell asleep.
34:43
I feel like ideally you'd want it to be some profound amazing
34:45
thing. But there's also a part of me
34:47
that's like you're thinking like oh man I should have mailed that
34:49
letter, you know. Like yeah there wasn't anything
34:52
big. I'm sure it was nothing over
34:54
what Aaron Rodgers was, you know, going to do with its trade
34:56
requested time. But no, I was just honestly of
35:00
all the emotions. I felt I was excited that entire
35:02
event from Friday night. When I got the phone call saying
35:05
that we're going to do this really early on Saturday
35:07
morning, I was excited. That's because I knew a, how
35:11
long I'd waited and that is a tough process and then,
35:15
secondly, just knowing what the future is going to bring with a
35:18
healthy heart and how much better I'll be.
35:20
So I was excited all the way through that weekend.
35:23
Going into it when you woke up, what was your feeling?
35:26
I'm assuming the first time you wake up, you're probably a
35:29
little out of it. But you know what was that
35:31
experience? Like waking up and knowing that
35:33
there was this new thing inside of you and you know, you do get
35:37
this this additional Bonus time. The first thought I had ultimate
35:42
was when they attempted to extubate, which means take the
35:45
breathing tube out of your mouth.
35:47
And that was probably at 11:00 at night or one in the morning.
35:50
I don't, I wasn't able to roll over and look at the clock, but
35:53
I know it was late at night of the surgery.
35:54
But, but ultimately, I remember them saying, Matt try to breathe
35:58
for pulling this tube out of your mouth.
36:00
And even in that level of medication in my brain, I was
36:04
excited because I knew that they wouldn't have put a breathing
36:07
tube in me if they didn't do the surgery.
36:08
So, Even that, you know, drugged up, I was excited because I knew
36:12
this surgery, it happened. So at that point, I knew I had a
36:15
new heart and then obviously the cognitive steps took a while for
36:18
me to get there, the next morning, but just was really
36:22
even in a heavy state of sedation.
36:24
I acknowledge. I had a new heart and that was a
36:27
really interesting thing when I look back that that kind of was
36:29
the switch that connected the dots for me that said, you got a
36:33
heart Once you have the heart, it's not over, right?
36:38
I mean, there's still obviously the healing of just the surgery
36:42
and any surgery of healing, but there's also a chance that the
36:45
heart doesn't take so to speak, right in my understanding that
36:49
where you could put it in everything seems right, but the
36:52
body says, this is not mine, I don't want it here.
36:56
What do I do? I mean, is that something that
36:58
you're continuing to do with or that that you were worried about
37:01
it? They were worried about, I
37:02
assume they wouldn't be worried about it necessarily if I
37:05
actually put the heart in, but it is a possibility, right?
37:08
Yeah, rejection is the biggest risk inherent to it transplanted
37:13
heart for the rest of your life. Even when they have gotten
37:16
really, really good at matching, you know, in terms of the blood
37:19
types in the antibodies and things like that, I mean they're
37:21
essentially perfect on paper but there's still the, your body's
37:26
natural immune defenses. I want to want to fight back and
37:28
whether you have a splinter in your finger, you have a cold
37:32
your body's going to fight back from an immunologic.
37:35
Point to say, this isn't me, it's foreign and to get it out
37:38
of here. So that's the challenge is what
37:42
to what level can we give medication to suppress your
37:45
immune system to stop that fight back.
37:49
But then also not expose you to other illnesses and things
37:53
that's going to let you get pneumonia and kill you from
37:55
pneumonia in 3 months. Like that's the delicate game
37:58
that they play from a medication standpoint.
38:02
And that you just said that the for the rest of your life, this
38:04
is a possibility. And so you're always going to be
38:06
playing this game of like suppressing your immune system.
38:09
So it doesn't get angry at the heart inside you, but also
38:12
doesn't fully expose you to like a cold.
38:16
That might be just a cold for someone else but might be more
38:18
for you. Right?
38:19
Yeah. It's like you need to you need
38:21
to reduce your immunity. But then also not let down your
38:25
defenses so much that every cold could could be very, very
38:28
dangerous. So and that's I think ultimately
38:30
moving forward. Is your biggest issue to manage
38:32
with a transplanted heart, is the immunity standpoint and
38:35
decisions. You make in life.
38:37
That three months ago, I took for granted the things now are
38:40
cautions or even things I have to totally avoid.
38:43
So that's, that's really the long-term success story of your
38:46
heart is, can you keep it intact and comfortable from a rejection
38:51
standpoint? Now that the surgery is over,
38:55
where a couple months out, what is your health status today and
38:58
then what is your recovery look like over the next year and how
39:01
does it slowly transition into just your normal life?
39:06
So the management after transplant is so much of it is
39:09
monitoring like you mentioned regarding the rejection status.
39:12
So for the first month, I had weekly biopsies where they
39:16
actually take a small piece of heart tissue and then can look
39:19
at it from a cellular level. Is there any rejection going?
39:22
Labs are very, very common part of this, where they can see some
39:25
things lab markers would indicate rejection, but then
39:28
they also do biopsies of the heart tissue itself and that
39:32
frequencies decreasing. So now I'm down to once a month
39:34
of being biopsied where they actually take heart tissue and
39:38
look at it. So that's how the first year
39:41
goes. In terms of frequent biopsies to
39:43
make sure that this heart is taking into my body and that
39:46
it's a good match and their medication is appropriate based
39:49
on suppression. So that it's not again, leaving
39:51
the door open. Open for something to get me
39:54
sick, as well as not being sold out that the heart decides to be
39:57
rejected by my immune system. So that's the challenge moving
40:00
forward. That's like you said, is
40:02
forever, but it's all new to me this first year.
40:05
So that will be something that will be a continual Challenge.
40:07
And I just want to kind of reference this, but you're not
40:11
on lockdown the way you were before trying to wait for the
40:14
heart. But you are also in a state of
40:16
where you're at risk in this first year.
40:18
And so you're not currently working.
40:20
I believe in like your He has kind of been a little bit of a
40:23
bubble, think we all everyone listening knows what that's like
40:26
at least to some extent after covid.
40:29
How are you guys handling that time now?
40:31
I mean, I don't want to be what sort of thinking of I don't want
40:35
to be disrespectful of a bit, kind of maybe gives you a chance
40:39
to just be together as a family but will also going well there's
40:43
a reason for it. Yeah, covid gave us a three-year
40:46
practice round of existing in a small sphere of the world and
40:50
living in a bubble. Like you said, we're because my
40:53
immune system is at its maximum level of suppression.
40:57
Right now, safety is probably Paramount at this point, so they
41:01
give a medication the night before my transplant, to
41:03
essentially, delete my entire immune systems.
41:06
That's an IV, the night before and they said that takes about 3
41:08
months to wear off. So I'm still in that window
41:11
where I'm at my most susceptible up.
41:14
About week 12 and then at that point it drops a little bit but
41:17
I'm still on some steroids and other medications that will
41:19
phase out by month. 6. So really the first six months
41:22
are probably the most risky by way of getting a cold, which is
41:26
why I'm out of work for that six months is to let my body get to
41:30
a point that's a little more long-standing in terms of its
41:32
immunosuppression before we get reintroduced to society with
41:36
kids in school and me going back to work as a physical therapist
41:39
where I'm Hands-On with patients.
41:41
So there's there's good reason in waiting at this point to Get
41:44
back to those things. I would say, one of the biggest
41:47
unintended gains from the surgery, was just the fact that
41:51
we're shut in my wife is off, just because she has to help
41:54
with our baby at least because I wasn't yet cleared to lift the
41:58
20 pounds that she weighs. So, because of that were around,
42:02
as husband and wife, and their two kids are in the house.
42:05
So it's really kind of been a chance to kind of regain the
42:09
structure of our family here is where we're at home everyday.
42:13
I'm mr. I'm Hannah's teacher right now.
42:15
So I'm teaching her first grade, which has already surpassed some
42:18
of my intellect which doesn't bode well for the rest of my
42:21
teaching career. But some teaching Hannah and
42:23
then Leann has taken care of a lease because she can help with
42:26
the day-to-day things that come with a one-year-old baby.
42:28
So it has definitely been an upside of being home every day
42:31
and just focusing on us. We've all been through a lot
42:34
whether we've acknowledged that or not.
42:36
But this last year has been very trying and now we're able to
42:39
spend with the four of us. I would imagine the stress
42:43
levels just day to day. It's like anything.
42:46
You don't realize the weight of it until it's over.
42:49
I mean I felt that way about the coronavirus and I don't think
42:52
the coronavirus is over necessarily but I think the
42:55
weight of that first year wasn't really known to me until later
42:58
and I know that your family has been a great source of joy and
43:03
support, but I would imagine there's a there's a new type of
43:06
stress now but it's a different type of stress.
43:08
That's looking forward, instead of fear.
43:11
You know, I think we've come to the realization after I've been
43:14
transplanted but for so long, we were fearful of the transplant
43:17
event. I don't call it endgame, but it
43:19
was this, the final stage of this disease was going to result
43:24
in a transplant, but looking now that I've had eight weeks, nine
43:27
weeks to really be feeling great.
43:30
I shouldn't have heard the transplant.
43:31
I should have feared the last year leading up to it.
43:33
I was very sick. And again, whether through just
43:36
my low level intellect or just being brave.
43:38
I didn't realize, maybe I'll stick and dangerous.
43:41
Living life was the last year for me, you know, I've had a
43:43
chance to review some of my medical notes and that's kind of
43:46
what was impressed. Upon me was how how sick all the
43:49
doctors alluded to in my note, aside from the labs and things
43:52
like that. But just saying words, like
43:54
tenuous and obviously sick and things like that really opened
43:58
my eyes to maybe the risky. Part wasn't the transplant was
44:01
getting the transplant. And that unfortunately, for a
44:03
lot of people, they don't live long enough to get their heart.
44:06
So that's another certainly big check, mark in the win.
44:09
Column for me is I was Able to stay healthy enough, long enough
44:12
to get this heart when I called you on the phone to tell you
44:16
that, I wanted to talk to you about this possibly for the
44:19
show, which I didn't know for sure you'd want to do you told
44:22
me at the time that you wanted to be an advocate for
44:25
transplanting and for donation, I'm wondering what does that
44:28
mean to you? How do you see that working?
44:32
You know, I think that there's a lot of misconceptions about
44:34
organ donation and I hope I can honestly be better verse that it
44:38
so I can have that conversation with people that have questions
44:40
for me about how it works. You know, certainly coming from
44:43
someone firsthand. That's been a benefactor of the
44:46
donation system. I think that can leave an
44:48
imprint on someone if they're on the fence to say, hey, I know
44:51
matter, he's my therapist. And why would I not make that
44:54
decision? If we could save someone like
44:55
his his life, ultimately it's a very personal decision to make a
45:00
the organ. Nation your choice and I can
45:03
certainly inform people on why I think it's important but I have
45:07
to respect or someone chooses not to but I think the more I
45:10
tell my story that's just a chance that I could resonate
45:12
with someone that if they are a fence sitter on the decision,
45:15
maybe it would tip them towards saying.
45:17
All right, I know this person and move forward to choosing to
45:22
be an organ donor. Now that you you've gone through
45:26
this process and you're already impacting, you know, people like
45:29
obviously I told you that I made sure that I was on the donor
45:32
list. How can people support the
45:34
transplant registry? How can, what are some concrete
45:38
ways that people can say? Oh, you know what?
45:41
I was inspired by math? I want to do this.
45:44
I mean, I think the biggest impact that I or anyone could
45:47
make would be to have more people sign up to be a donor.
45:50
I mean, there's there was only three thousand Hearts done last
45:54
year in the United States, that's in the grand scheme of
45:57
our population. That's a very, very small number
45:59
of hearts, and there's clearly a shortage of available organs.
46:02
So, if there'd be any, any win on this and be more people sign
46:06
up for that certainly organ donation groups can utilize
46:09
funds to move forward with their mission to get more Hearts
46:14
available. Global more organs available
46:16
educate others about why becoming a donor's important.
46:19
And I I purely him, scratching the surface of my role at this
46:23
point but I think the more people I can tell what my story,
46:26
I think if you can place a person's face to that decision
46:29
that you could make, I think that's going to be a good thing.
46:31
Moving forward for four others that are waiting for an organ,
46:35
you just mentioned, you know donations are funds.
46:38
There's more that goes into the impact of a transplant and the
46:41
recipient of the transplant Beyond just your health.
46:43
There's also the Trust, we talked about challenges for
46:46
families to navigate the logistics.
46:48
Obviously if two kids and you just mentioned that you couldn't
46:51
even pick up your baby at first because of the weight, The
46:54
Strain, it would pain your heart but also the financial impact of
46:59
it. I think I read somewhere maybe
47:02
in something that your brother posted about the cost of a
47:05
transplant, is like a million dollars roughly on average which
47:10
when I think about it makes a lot of sense.
47:12
But where does that come from? I mean Is that just covered
47:15
under your normal Insurance? You know, how does that impact
47:17
you? You're not working there, all
47:19
these other challenges that go beyond it and I could see where
47:22
depending on your circumstance in life, you get this new heart
47:25
and then you're stuck in it. Kind of a rough, you know,
47:28
Financial area. But also just like what am I
47:31
going to do? Now, I'm wondering if you can
47:32
speak to any of those other impacts Beyond and I don't mean
47:36
to be negative, but also just like to be upfront with people.
47:38
Like, hey, there are other challenges here.
47:40
Yeah. I mean, I think when I did the
47:42
initial research about Transplantation and you do see
47:45
those numbers from 1 point to to 1.6 million dollars for like the
47:49
30 days surrounding a transplant or something like that.
47:52
I don't have the specifics, but it's well, north of a million
47:54
dollars for the, for the course of care.
47:56
I think I got a pre-authorization for the
47:58
surgery was like nine hundred and thirty thousand dollars, so
48:01
it's something like that. I mean, it's not hard to accrue
48:05
a million-dollar bill, for your hospitalization for a
48:07
transplant. So thankful, you know, to have
48:10
good, employer sponsored insurance.
48:12
So, in that sense, I'm able to Least have a ceiling effect
48:15
whether or not a pocket max or that's as far as a single go for
48:18
me financially. But like you said on the flip
48:20
side just being out of work for a prolonged period of time,
48:23
changes the game in terms of your ability, to make money and
48:26
ultimately support your family. So that's that's the current
48:29
challenge. We're working through.
48:30
But it's something that we thankfully had time to plan.
48:32
You know, if someone got very sick very quickly and became a,
48:36
became a status one, heart waiting list person.
48:40
And, you know, say had a weekend weekend event and they're in the
48:43
hospital, the rest of the The way they're only able to save up
48:45
for this or to take those financial steps to try to get
48:48
ahead. So in our case we kind of knew
48:51
this was coming down the road and just tried to change some of
48:54
the things that we did in terms of financial habits and just try
48:57
to save some money for the realization is days.
49:00
Coming? Where are our jobs would be
49:03
impacted in, they'll be some bills coming in.
49:05
Yeah, that's intense. What about positive impacts?
49:08
I mean, you seem like a very optimistic person in general.
49:11
And I know that to be, you know, your personality as a, as a
49:15
friend. But how are you feeling now, any
49:18
differently afterwards as opposed to before any new
49:21
changes in terms of gratitude, or faith or support or anything
49:25
like that? Yeah, I certainly think that I
49:28
was a person that tried to Express gratitude a lot before
49:32
my transplant, even before I was waiting for that, I just I felt
49:35
that, you know, Life's Too Short not to be thankful for things.
49:37
And like I said, even in spite of a pretty dangerous heart
49:41
condition. I was always almost thankful
49:43
that I had it by way of how it Formed my life people.
49:46
I met that career choice, that made the experiences I had in
49:49
life were often times due to that condition.
49:52
So I think I was trying to live a very thankful life and I don't
49:55
think that is served me wrong over my years.
49:59
I've been lucky to see some cool things and do some great
50:02
experiences and meet wonderful people.
50:03
And I think that is just Got me to transplantation and now I'm
50:08
moving forward. I think I'm profoundly thankful,
50:11
you know, for the sacrifice, the donors family had made by way of
50:17
the decision to be to list as an organ donor.
50:19
I wouldn't be here wouldn't be this good if it wasn't for that
50:24
decision so I'm so thankful, I do feel a responsibility to
50:27
continue to live, right? And treat people well and just
50:31
that my values Drive how I live and that ultimately is away from
50:34
me, too. To carry on this gentleman's
50:37
life. Moving forward.
50:38
Is there anything that I didn't ask her?
50:41
I forgot something that we didn't cover that.
50:43
You think people should know or about this process or about you
50:47
as we kind of come to the end of this chat.
50:50
I think ultimately, you know, the big red letter item on the
50:55
counter the transplant day, but there's so much on both sides of
50:58
it. Both the waiting period coming
51:00
up until you get that phone call.
51:02
That is just a trial and I I've had a chance to meet some people
51:06
that are on the waiting list currently and they are going
51:09
through that but it is such a relief to be on the other side
51:12
waiting even in the acute phase of being in the hospital and
51:15
being pain painful from a surgery.
51:17
But you know that your wait is over and no new challenges.
51:20
Begin like you alluded to it. Something that they'll be
51:23
challenges every day, the rest of my life.
51:25
I way of medication management or the risk of rejection that
51:30
the fears have shifted in Lyon, and I that it's not Going to be
51:35
a tachycardia that could. Take me that it could be
51:39
something long term from a immunological standpoint or
51:42
rejection standpoint. So the first shift but they're
51:45
still fearful. It's not like you'd cross the
51:47
finish line and the race is over.
51:49
It's a different race. It's really an interesting way
51:52
of looking at it. I feel like we have a lot of
51:54
examples in pop culture and, you know, on television and movies
51:57
about kind of the challenges of other diseases, but I can't
52:01
honestly think of one that talks about the lead-up and the post
52:05
of a transplant. You know, maybe a good episode
52:08
Is an anime where they show that the dramatic part of it, but
52:11
this fact that it encompasses your entire life leading up and
52:15
Beyond, I don't necessarily see as much as you do with some,
52:18
some other terrible things that people are dealing with.
52:22
I wanted to just give you a chance if you if there was
52:25
anything and I didn't prep you for this, so I apologize.
52:28
But if there's anyone you wanted to just say, thank you to or
52:31
anyone, you wanted to shout out, you know, that's been there for
52:34
you in this process and any last thoughts I think I have to take
52:39
a very broad approach and thank friends and family.
52:41
I don't want to specifically. I was kind of hoping you would
52:45
think me personally but I mean that's fine.
52:49
Well I mean as a as a global thing, we've been so lucky with
52:53
the support of our friends and family.
52:56
Both locally here in Idaho is always distant in the midwest
52:58
where we grew up, but I mean they got us there.
53:01
I mean they were able to help us by way of support and just, you
53:04
know, friendly phone calls and chance to check in with people
53:07
while we were waiting. Because our life was such a low
53:09
level and just kind of in this holding pattern that we weren't
53:12
doing a lot. So we could chat SketchUp with
53:14
people were great and cards and people and then ultimately,
53:18
since the transplant happened, we've just been flooded with
53:21
generosity and it's almost to an embarrassing level of the wealth
53:24
we have in terms of friends and family.
53:26
It's just something that they have supported us.
53:29
A hundred fold greater than I thought.
53:31
We'd have even with our good group of friends.
53:33
It's just been one of those things that truly fortunate in
53:37
our He's fortunate to have the people in our lives that are
53:41
that are helping us move ahead. It feels weird to say a little
53:46
bit but I just congratulations on Surviving, you know, that's
53:51
actually funny. Use that term when I was in the
53:55
Heart Institute and the ICU and then onto the heart floor after
53:58
transplant. So many nurses and lab techs,
54:01
and even toxic came in at their, congratulations.
54:04
And I don't think you get a congratulations.
54:06
If you had one too many sausages and you had a Blocked.
54:08
This one, a heart attack. Like it was just a really weird
54:11
thought that dawned on me like, this is something to celebrate
54:14
by way of being a recipient of a heart that when people in a
54:17
medical facility, congratulate you on your surgery that just
54:20
such a spin on the classic way of medical management by the
54:24
healthcare model that you're congratulated for something.
54:26
He had done that's really a cool way to look at it.
54:28
I was that dis I think fast forwarded your gratitude of the
54:33
entire experience hearing people congratulate you on having a
54:36
heart transplant. No would imagine for them to see
54:40
a successful transplant is a celebration as well because
54:44
there is so much that doesn't go right in the medical profession.
54:48
And and we've seen how wearing and taxing that can be on people
54:52
who are nurses and doctors over the last several years and it's
54:56
always been that way, but I think it was just more apparent
54:59
to people on the world recently. So I think it is a celebration.
55:03
I know that my wife and I are just, you know, we've got
55:07
emotional when I heard that the transplant was happening and and
55:10
that it had gone. Well and this continued to go
55:12
well and you know where we're just thrilled.
55:16
And I'm I'm glad that we have this opportunity now to chat
55:19
about it and tell people about the donor list and I'll share
55:22
all that stuff on the website and the newsletter, all that fun
55:25
stuff afterwards. But thanks for being here and
55:28
being willing to talk about this and I'm sure that it won't be
55:31
the last time. No, I appreciate your time and
55:33
it's fun to tell my story and I know it's Unique compared to
55:36
even my brothers and everybody Let's experience to receiving an
55:40
organ, but I think that that in my case it's just something
55:43
that's started well and I hope that it continues to be a daily
55:47
Improvement in terms of my abilities and just realization
55:50
that this is a long road with, really no Finish Line.
55:53
And that's maybe the mentality that I have to have moved
55:55
forward as everyday. This thing requires work and it
55:58
will get easier. But in the in the acute phase
56:00
here, it's going to be going to be a challenge and we're doing
56:04
well with it but we'll keep battling for sure.
56:07
Well, Matt, thank you so much for being here.
56:09
I was so engrossed. I didn't even finish my coffee,
56:11
but I'm going to do that now. And I'll talk to you again soon.
56:15
Man, that sounds great. Thanks for calling Ryan.
56:17
Appreciate talking to you. So, wow, there's so much more
56:32
that Matt and I could have gone into, we could have chatted
56:34
about him and his wife's decision surrounding Family
56:37
Planning or we could have dived into the genetic details of a
56:41
RV. See, those could be episodes in
56:44
and of themselves. But I think for today we've got
56:47
enough to chew on before. I share some key takeaways.
56:51
I wanted to define a few terms. The first definition is pair.
56:54
If raised from Hopkins medicine, dot-org, a RV C or arrhythmia
56:59
genic, right? Ventricular cardiomyopathy is a
57:03
rare. Familial disorder that may cause
57:05
ventricular tachycardia and sudden cardiac death in young
57:10
apparently healthy individuals. The Hallmark of the disease is
57:13
ventricular, arrhythmias arising predominantly from the right
57:17
ventricle. I had to look up a few of those
57:20
words. A tachycardia is when someone
57:22
has a rapid heartbeat upwards of 100 beats per minute or more and
57:27
an arrhythmia is an irregularity in the force or Rhythm of the
57:31
heartbeat. So now for our key takeaways, if
57:35
you take anything from today's show, it is the importance and
57:39
need for more people to sign up for the transplant donors list.
57:43
I did recently on Donate Life dotnet and it took all of 30
57:47
seconds you can make choices about your decision to
57:50
transplant, some or all of your organs that will be recorded and
57:54
accessible should the unfortunate happen and your
57:57
organs become available. You could be the reason that
58:01
someone else out there gets a second chance again, I did that
58:04
on Donate Life dotnet. Matt learned early on from his
58:09
experience with a RV. See that we have a finite number
58:12
of days. You may not have sunk in right
58:14
away but the colonel of that knowledge was planted during
58:17
that high school football game 25 years ago I find it quite
58:21
inspiring how he seems to instinctively look at the
58:23
positives that came with his condition, not the negatives, he
58:28
even called it a net gain in his life pointing at how it led him
58:32
to his partnership with his wife.
58:34
The choices he made in his career and now, Young kids, who,
58:38
if they're listening to this someday should know that.
58:41
I think they're awesome. Potential heart, transplant,
58:44
recipients fall on, a scale, from 1 to 6, the patients in
58:48
tears, 4 through 6 are able to wait at home with varying
58:51
medical support. A patient moved into the one to
58:54
three range are most often hospitalized in an ICU to
58:58
support their heart while they wait placement on the heart.
59:02
Transplant waiting list depends on where your medical needs are
59:05
at and other factors like blood, type, height and weight, and
59:09
your literal location in relation to the available donor.
59:13
Her heart, the United Network for organ sharing or eunos
59:17
manages the list, and the logistics of placing a donor
59:20
heart with a recipient, they warn that heart availability is
59:24
unpredictable. And Matt mentioned earlier that
59:27
only 3000 heart transplants were performed last year.
59:31
I can't imagine the weight that comes with every decision.
59:33
You know, sis chosen to make, you can learn more about them
59:37
at, you know, start org, that's you, NOS dot-org.
59:42
Matt was on that list. For 10 months.
59:44
At the time, he and his family had fears about the transplant.
59:48
It's a weird place to be to be afraid of something that you're
59:52
also hoping against hope will happen in retrospect.
59:56
Matt acknowledges that maybe the risky part wasn't getting the
59:59
transplant. It was getting to the
1:00:01
transplant. So many don't even as they get
1:00:04
sicker and sicker. Now on the other side of his
1:00:07
surgery, rejection is a risk for the rest of Matt's life, meaning
1:00:11
the donor, heart and mats. Body may decide they don't like
1:00:14
each other as much as they thought, and his immune system
1:00:17
will begin fighting against what they see as an Invader, somehow,
1:00:21
he still sees past the challenges of his physical
1:00:24
health, the emotional and mental hurdles and the more practical
1:00:27
Logistics like finances to focus on the Silver.
1:00:31
Linings, the time he's able to spend with his family and the
1:00:35
opportunity to continue living a grateful life from the outside.
1:00:39
I'm overwhelmed that he's able to do so without minimizing The
1:00:43
scope of what he's been through and how its impacted those who
1:00:46
love him, somehow he does, and he makes it look easy.
1:00:51
We held it together today on the show, but there have been
1:00:53
moments in Matt's life for him. And his family were, there were
1:00:56
two years and long, hugs, and moments.
1:00:59
Were the words wouldn't come? And earlier I mentioned the
1:01:02
weight of the moment, sometimes you could, and sometimes you
1:01:05
still can see it, I don't know that it does any good to
1:01:08
pretend, it doesn't exist. However, I want to also point
1:01:13
out that human beings were able to take Matt's heart, out of his
1:01:16
chest and replace it with another somehow remembering to
1:01:20
connect all the corners without the aid of color coded
1:01:24
directions. It's pretty incredible for the
1:01:27
moments when I'm struggling to understand why people do what
1:01:30
they do. Remembering that we can also
1:01:32
make Miracles like a heart. Transplant happen is what brings
1:01:36
me back around. Finally, to the man who chose to
1:01:39
donate his organ to the family that lost someone, thank you.
1:01:43
What a gift for Matt, and for everyone who touches, I said it
1:01:47
before, but as a reminder, if you'd like to sign up or just
1:01:51
make sure you're on the transplant, donor list or learn
1:01:54
more about what that entails, go to donate life dotnet.
1:01:58
There is also a non-profit fundraiser, set up to help
1:02:01
Madness, family, pay medical bills during this date Aunt,
1:02:04
where he and his wife are unable to work which you can find at At
1:02:08
donate dot transplants, dot-org backslash story, backslash
1:02:12
madhaggis. I know it's a lot.
1:02:15
So of course you'll be able to find that link and all the links
1:02:18
from this episode in this shows podcast notes and of course on
1:02:22
roast westcoast.com. Thank you for taking a moment to
1:02:25
check it out and learn more about organ donation and that's
1:02:29
it. That's all for this episode.
1:02:31
The very first of the coffee with podcast, if you're
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coffee with podcast presented by roast West Coast is was has been
1:03:02
written produced and recorded by me Ryan wilt.
1:03:07
A big thank you to Matt. Hank is for spending an hour
1:03:09
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1:03:13
for that same hour. I also want to thank craft 42
1:03:17
Roasters in Kelowna, British Columbia for the great coffee.
1:03:19
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