Latest / Cigars and Cinema Podcast / "Is Django One Of Tarantino's Best?" Ep. 101 3/26/26

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"Is Django One Of Tarantino's Best?" Ep. 101 3/26/26 · Cigars and Cinema Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another episode of Cigars and Cinema.
0:04
SPEAKER_00: Grab a cigar, something to pair it with, and let's be journey into another episode of Smoke and Scream.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: With the community and smoke list of Oakland Tobacchinists, we delve into the written experience of 5 cigars.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: If you're interested and if you want to find out more about the subscription and the whole host of these cigars, visit us at www.com or find us on social media platforms like Instagram and TikTok at OGT Cigars.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: Hello everybody.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another episode, Cigars and Cinema Podcast.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: We're finally back.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Um I have to apologize.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: We were out last week.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: That was mostly due to myself because I was under the weather.
1:22
SPEAKER_00: But we are back.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: If you're joining us for the first time or if you've been listening for some time, uh, this is the podcast where we smoke cigars and unabashedly commentate, in some cases, give extreme opinions on film and entertainment.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: I am one of your hosts on the East Coast, Eric Drazen from OTT Cigars, and on the West Coast, in the midst of a heat wave during the spring, we have Curtis Bailey.
1:45
SPEAKER_00: Curtis, thanks for jumping back on.
1:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I uh I'm not a fan of this uh this early onset summer because spring is my favorite time of year around here, and it's being stolen from me in 2026.
1:57
SPEAKER_03: And I do not appreciate that.
1:59
SPEAKER_00: You you have yet to have a spring.
2:01
SPEAKER_03: It doesn't feel like it.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm sorry.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: I uh hopefully it's not an indication of like the the summer for California.
2:09
SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh, yeah.
2:10
SPEAKER_03: I I mean I'm preparing for the worst, but we'll see.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure, sure.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: Crank the AC.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: Um, over here we're having springtime weather, but it's also pollen season, so it's like a wall of yellow dust everywhere, which is crazy.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, thankfully, so far, we don't have like crazy allergies, and we're hoping that continues, but good.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, but guys, thank you so much for joining us tonight.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: Uh, as usual, we're gonna be discussing a movie.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna be also analyzing a cigar, and I invite you, please engage in the conversation, whether it is about questions about cigars, whether it is about the movie we're talking about, or even just letting us know what are you enjoying tonight, what are you lighting up?
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Please put those down in the comments and I will pull them up and help uh you become a part of the conversation because it is always so much more engaging when you do just that.
2:58
SPEAKER_00: Engage in the show.
3:00
SPEAKER_00: So please drop down those comments.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, I see tonight we've got RJ saying hello, Eric and Curtis.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: Glad to see you guys back smoking a naysayer tonight and looking forward to the show.
3:10
SPEAKER_03: Nice.
3:10
SPEAKER_03: What's up, man?
3:11
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for so much for jumping on, RJ.
3:13
SPEAKER_00: Always good to have you on.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, and Naysayer, can't go about with that.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: That's a fantastic cigar.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: So we are continuing in our sort of theme of uh Leo movies, Leonardo DiCaprio movies.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so this next pick, this latest pick, was mine.
3:31
SPEAKER_00: But before we jump into that, we have a cigar to discuss.
3:35
SPEAKER_03: We do.
3:36
SPEAKER_00: We do, we do.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: So we try to go through the OGT Variety Club on this podcast.
3:42
SPEAKER_00: Um, and while we do that, uh we kind of go through each cigar and analyze it.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Tonight's cigar actually comes from a favorite company, Espinosa Cigars.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: So this is the Espinoza La Crema.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: This is the uh Corline Connecticut.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: I really enjoy the particular size that the cigar is in.
4:01
SPEAKER_00: This is a um, yeah, it's a five and a half by 52 Robusto, or they just call it the number four.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, really like golden, golden Connecticut shade wrapper over Nicaraguan binder and filler.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: Curtis, I have to ask, I know that you've tried a lot of Espinoza cigars.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: Are you a fan of Espinoza?
4:19
SPEAKER_00: And have you tried this one in particular?
4:21
SPEAKER_03: I am a fan of them.
4:22
SPEAKER_03: I'm still not as familiar like overall with their lineup, at least the stuff that I can get through you, because they just haven't been around quite as long.
4:32
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
4:33
SPEAKER_03: But um, I do like them.
4:35
SPEAKER_03: I believe that I have had this.
4:37
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
4:38
SPEAKER_03: Don't specifically remember anything about what I think it was like, so it'll be interesting to smoke it tonight, but I believe that I have had it before.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, uh, we talk about this a lot.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh, our palettes tend to be similar.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's not that I dislike Connecticut's, I just not always the one that I gravitate towards.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: Uh, what is your opinion on Connecticut cigars?
5:01
SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm in a similar boat.
5:03
SPEAKER_03: Um, I mean, uh it definitely depends on who's making it, because we've had some pretty uh interesting ones uh come through uh the OGT humidora that's uh I'm definitely a fan of.
5:15
SPEAKER_03: Uh it's still not my favorite flavor profile, and even when I do uh smoke them, this is probably like very silly, but like in my head, they're a daytime cigar.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, no, I don't think that's silly at all.
5:32
SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't usually choose that if I have them in the humidor and it's in the evening, and you know, I'm wanting to relax after dinner.
5:42
SPEAKER_03: It's usually that's usually not what I'm going for.
5:44
SPEAKER_03: But um, but they they they they can be very good.
5:47
SPEAKER_03: So I am gonna be pairing it with something tonight.
5:49
SPEAKER_03: We'll see how that goes.
5:50
SPEAKER_00: Okay, what are you pairing with?
5:52
SPEAKER_03: It's been a while since I've had this bottle.
5:54
SPEAKER_03: I'm very excited.
5:57
SPEAKER_03: Kill Karen 12.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: All right, so I gotta tell Mallory I gotta get plane tickets to California so that I enjoy the pairing as well.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: I remember you shared that one with me.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: It is crazy good.
6:08
SPEAKER_00: So congrats, congrats on the addition.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: Uh, why you gave yourself a pour?
6:12
SPEAKER_00: We got two more comments.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: Raider Dave is on.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: Raider Dave, thanks for joining us tonight.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: Curtis, you should know our spring comes in January and February.
6:19
SPEAKER_00: We are now in summer.
6:21
SPEAKER_03: No uh, no, not like this.
6:25
SPEAKER_03: I mean, in a way, he's not wrong, but like, yeah, I still like March and April I can usually rely on to be like pretty nice, you know.
6:33
SPEAKER_03: There's usually recent rainfall, it cools off nicely in the evening, even if you get up into like the 80s or low 90s.
6:40
SPEAKER_03: This has been this has been like pre-summer.
6:43
SPEAKER_03: I don't don't like it.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Dave, I know that you're by the coast.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh, have you also been experiencing the the heat, the heat wave?
6:51
SPEAKER_00: I'd love to know.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: Uh Jason saying, What's up, Eric and Curtis?
6:54
SPEAKER_00: Enjoying a cold beer over here.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for jumping on, Jason.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: All right, so uh, we're gonna go ahead and get this thing, give it a cold draw.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't want to like try to lead the witness at all.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I have smoked this cigar on a number of occasions, and even though I'm not the biggest fan of Connecticut, Espinosa La Crema is definitely in my top picks of Connecticut that I enjoy in rotation.
7:22
SPEAKER_00: Very much almondy, lots of almonds on the draw, a little bit of sweetness.
7:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's almost making me think of what are they called?
7:31
SPEAKER_03: Is it the Jordan almonds or whatever?
7:33
SPEAKER_03: Those like candy-coated ones.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: Which is also to me impressive because most of the time cold draws on a Connecticut is hay and blank.
7:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: So, okay, so we're gonna light this up.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: And to light this up, for the first time in Cigars and Cinema Podcast history, we have an updated lighting segment.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and we're slowly working through this.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: I know that uh Curtis has been more proactive than I in terms of getting this updated.
8:03
SPEAKER_00: It needs to be updated, especially when you surpass 100 episodes on the podcast.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: So uh let's jump into it.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: Let's get this lit and see where it lands.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: Every cigar leaves an impression.
8:17
SPEAKER_03: However, it's not until you take a moment and analyze the full experience from construction to flavor to profile that you can truly appreciate it.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: So enjoy your cigar as you light it up.
8:27
SPEAKER_00: Take the time to toast it, smell the room notes, and experience the first notes as they come alive.
8:34
SPEAKER_02: In the same way, movies can tell deeper stories or show us things we haven't noticed on the surface.
8:39
SPEAKER_02: So journey with us as we take a more detailed appreciation for the craft of cigar and movie making.
8:49
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
8:50
SPEAKER_03: Nicely done, sir.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: I know that it was getting to the Aristotle thing to where we don't really analyze it in that same way.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: So I think that and it also helps that it's not just my boring voice going on.
9:02
SPEAKER_03: I think Yeah, now you also have my boring voice.
9:06
SPEAKER_00: It keeps it interesting.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:08
SPEAKER_00: Um, right out the gate.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: This is a part of why I like the cigar so much.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, blindfolded, I don't know if I would immediately say, Oh, this is a Connecticut cigar when I light it up.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: It's got some pepper to it.
9:19
SPEAKER_03: I agree.
9:21
SPEAKER_03: Um there's a lot of uh notes that are making me think of kind of um uh herbalness and uh or you know, other kind of this is gonna sound like such a dumb term, but I don't know how else to put it.
9:39
SPEAKER_03: Spicy vegetation, if that makes any sense whatsoever.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, there is some kind of vegetable component to it, definitely spicy, peppery um hints of sweetness.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't say that's up at the front.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, but what I like about this is like I don't know, I'm sure you've heard the term not your grandfather's Connecticut.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like the movement that was like everyone was throwing it around.
10:01
SPEAKER_00: So much so that a lot of companies that were claiming that, I'm like, yeah, it's still very mild, like light smoke.
10:07
SPEAKER_00: And my reservation with Connecticut is I at least want a stronger body to it.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: I don't need strength, but I do need a weightiness.
10:15
SPEAKER_00: And this cigar delivers that in spade.
10:17
SPEAKER_00: So if anyone says I need a stronger Connecticut, this is something I would point to.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: It's um a little unassuming by its appearance.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh it has a very classic look, but man oh man, every time I have this cigar, I am more and more impressed with it.
10:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm getting a lot of it's it's playing in the realm of like a like a tray of vegetables that you've roasted to make salsa or something like that.
10:46
SPEAKER_03: Okay, if that makes sense.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: No, I can totally see that.
10:49
SPEAKER_03: So not just uh uh pepper in terms of the spice, but like pepper in terms of the fruit, like there's actually a little bit of the you know, like actual bell pepper type fruit flavor in there, along with a little bit of the the spice and kind of other like slight bitterness and things that that can come with that.
11:10
SPEAKER_03: It's good, it's interesting.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Not to mention the amount of smoke output on this one is insane.
11:16
SPEAKER_03: It's been good.
11:16
SPEAKER_03: It's good.
11:17
SPEAKER_03: Let's see how it is with the let's see how it is with my whiskey.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, get that pairing going.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know about uh anyone watching right now, uh, Raider Dave, RJ, Jason.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: Question for you guys drop down in the comments how often do you retrohale?
11:30
SPEAKER_00: It's gotten to the point where I have to think not to retrohale, and I'm not saying that that's the best way to do it.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I am curious because I was actually at an event earlier, and some people were like, uh once or twice while having the cigar or every other.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: And so I'm like, for me, I'm like, I have to think not to retro.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: But um, not to interrupt though, uh, how's the pairing?
11:49
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I love this whiskey on its own, so it's gonna be a winner with almost anything.
11:55
SPEAKER_03: Um, but uh it it, I mean, you know, I I didn't know ahead of time, you know, picking this whiskey.
12:03
SPEAKER_03: I just wanted to get this whiskey because I like it.
12:05
SPEAKER_03: Um, that you know, we were gonna be pairing it specifically with this tonight.
12:09
SPEAKER_03: But it does go nicely because the whiskey um has a little bit of saltiness to it and a definite like citrus, like lemon character almost.
12:19
SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
12:20
SPEAKER_03: And that plays really nicely with the flavor profile of the of the cigar so far.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: Heck yeah.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we're gonna jump into our movie, and but I just wanted to announce because this was kind of exciting, we're gonna talk more about this on our podcast in two days, Mallory and I, but I had to show this, which was kind of cool.
12:40
SPEAKER_02: Who's that guy?
12:41
SPEAKER_00: Uh uh yeah, in spite of the ugly mug on this, it was kind of cool.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: Uh PCA trade show, uh, shout out to the PCA.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: They put us on the front cover of this uh first year's edition, uh, under the heading of Oakland Tobacch, a story of uh resilience, which is really cool.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: So photo credit goes to my lovely wife Maui.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: She took an amazing picture, so in spite of the subject, but just had to say, hey, that was cool.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, that being said, this week uh for Leonardo Decrapios films, uh, this week was my pick.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: And so I wanted to revisit this movie because we used to debate about this movie, we used to talk about this movie a lot at the shop.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I hadn't seen it since I don't know, maybe a year, the year it came out.
13:25
SPEAKER_00: Tonight we are talking about Django Unchained, uh, which was I want to say the seventh movie by Quentin Tarantino.
13:37
SPEAKER_03: That might be, I can't keep track anymore, but something like that, yeah.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: I believe it came out right before Have a 8.
13:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh, it was made in 2012, rated R runtime, a lengthy two hours and 45 minutes.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh, with the help of a German bounty hunter, a freed slave sets out to rescue his wife from the brutal plantation owner in Mississippi.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: Big names such as Jamie Foxx, Christoph Waltz, Kerry Washington, Leonardo DiCaprio, uh Walt or Walton Goggins, and Samuel L.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: Jackson to name a few.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, I wanted to revisit this.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: I know we have a lot to talk about.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: Uh, broad strokes, first impressions revisiting this movie.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts?
14:15
SPEAKER_03: Well, I had never had like particularly strong feelings about this film one way or the other, as like, you know, oh, it's one of Tarantino's worst, or it's one of my favorite.
14:24
SPEAKER_03: It was just like, hey, there's another movie that he made.
14:27
SPEAKER_03: So um, and uh, I didn't go out of my way to to re-watch it, really.
14:33
SPEAKER_03: Um uh I mean I I I certainly saw it in the theater when it was new, and I probably saw it one other time since then.
14:40
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I I had to kind of refresh my memory on the plot of this.
14:44
SPEAKER_03: And in fact, um I remember uh DiCaprio's role being more of a minor character than he is, but he's actually fairly present in the second half of this movie.
14:55
SPEAKER_03: He is, he is the and I I I think that after watching it again uh for the show, my feelings probably have not changed that much.
15:06
SPEAKER_03: I'm just like, yep, this is a Tarantino movie, and it has Tarantino things in it, and and you know, I mean, uh there's nothing that I I think that is necessarily bad about it or or wrong with it.
15:19
SPEAKER_03: I just for whatever commentation of reasons, and maybe we can figure that out through discussion tonight, yeah.
15:25
SPEAKER_03: Um it just doesn't you know strike a chord with me as like, oh, this is one of my favorites that I have to watch a bunch.
15:32
SPEAKER_03: It's good, okay, but eh, I don't know, we'll see.
15:37
SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay, and I want to jump into that.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I also see some comments to my question earlier, so let's let's take some of those comments and then I'll also jump into that.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: Raider Dave is saying a retro on every puff.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: It's like breathing at this point.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: I don't really notice that I'm doing anymore.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: 100% insane frame.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know what do you what where do you stand on that, Curtis?
15:57
SPEAKER_03: I definitely don't do it every time.
16:00
SPEAKER_03: Okay, but I probably and it maybe sometimes depends on like how much in tasting mode I'm in or not.
16:08
SPEAKER_03: So uh, you know, if it's just like a casual smoke and I'm watching a movie and I'm not really paying super close attention to you know every detail of the smoking experience, I might only do it a couple times.
16:20
SPEAKER_03: Okay, but like on average, I'm probably doing it, you know, one out of five puffs, something like that.
16:26
SPEAKER_03: Gotcha, it just really depends.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I developed, I don't know if it was like a habit or whatever, but like mine sitting down, especially when it comes to like new cigars or like podcasts like this, where I'm like, okay, I want to taste the cigar.
16:37
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, and I don't even think about it anymore, but I'll bring the smoke in and I'll actually position it to where it comes out the the corners of my mouth, so it warms up the palate on either side, then directly down the center, and then last like percentage through my nose.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't even realize that I'm doing it, but it's like trying to do the entire palate and nasal cavity.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, the reason I asked is because I feel like where this cigar gets the highest, highest amount is on the retro.
17:03
SPEAKER_00: So interested to see where that goes.
17:05
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: RJ says retrohale about five times or so, similar to you.
17:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'm still practicing on getting the retrohill held down.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Still would like to retrohale a lot more smoke, though, but not there yet.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: And it's definitely yeah, building that up.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, Jason says, I can't retro if my life depended on it.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: Well no, I've tried to like teach or like I don't know, like there's a few tips someone told me, and I always mess it up.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
17:31
SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, Jason, I feel for you.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so for Jango and Chain, for me, if there is a scale, like there's the needle, okay, and there's the hate side, and very much like it.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, when I before re-watching this movie, the needle was like edging there.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: To my surprise, it edged the other way.
17:53
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
17:54
SPEAKER_00: Revisiting it.
17:55
SPEAKER_00: I did not expect that because for the longest time, and a lot of the debates we would have is that I was always on the side of this is one of the more annoying movies that Tarantino has made, and I don't really like it.
18:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, however, since then, and maybe it's I don't know.
18:11
SPEAKER_00: I I know we've talked about this before.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: Like, you'll have an idea about a movie, then you revisit it later, and you're like, maybe I was just in a different time of life or whatever.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: Oh, for sure.
18:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I did enjoy it a lot more.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't necessarily say I would give it high points for what Tarantino has always praised for, and that's his dialogue.
18:28
SPEAKER_00: I don't think that that this is one of his better examples.
18:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, um, you know, obviously, especially going back to the 90s with Pulp Fiction and stuff, you know, uh when his movies felt very fresh in that era of Hollywood.
18:44
SPEAKER_03: Um, and probably also because I was a teenager at the time and you know, I was getting you know, getting exposed to art that's you know impacted the way that I kind of you know uh view the world and perceive the way that you know like my artistic taste is and stuff like that.
18:59
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean a movie like pulp fiction is endlessly quotable, yeah, yeah, yeah.
19:05
SPEAKER_03: This one, I don't think the dialogue's bad, sure, but even though I just watched it a couple weeks ago for the show, I'm gonna struggle to remember like specific lines aside from a few particular things, it's just it doesn't hit quite the same for me on that level, exactly.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: And I think that the lengthy dialogue, of course, is through Chr Christoph Walsh's character, yeah, at least in the beginning segment, and he does an amazing job, but even that doesn't seem as effortless as it was in like say Inglorious.
19:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, glorious, it kind of just worked.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: Um, I also because Mallory had never seen it, so we sat down to watch it both.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: And as we were about a quarter way in, I was like, if I remember correctly, this is one of his more bloody films.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: Uh, would you agree with that assessment?
19:49
SPEAKER_03: Yep, yeah.
19:51
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I mean, you know, when it comes to violence, his films kind of run the gamut because like Jackie Brown barely has any violence or aggressiveness in it at all.
20:02
SPEAKER_03: And then Kill Bill, of course, you know, there's you know, the whole crazy 88 fight, which is super gory comically, though.
20:10
SPEAKER_03: Um, and this one probably you know is not not playing a too dissimilar note with the violence because it is very over the top, you know.
20:18
SPEAKER_03: Uh gunshots, you know, make blood explode out of bodies in a way that is completely not realistic.
20:25
SPEAKER_03: But that, you know, he's he's doing that on purpose for for the sort of you know 70s grindhouse thing, which is always like kind of at the heart of what Tarantino loves to do with uh movie making is like let's just take everything that I like about you know these raw, you know, uh kind of lurid, violent, exploitive films from the 70s and just crank stuff up, but also actually maybe sometimes give them good stories.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: Yes, no, I I I agree for sure.
20:56
SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, I felt like with this movie with Django and Chain, Tarantino leans into the the gory, violent side, he takes a back step off of dialogue.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: Um, and the other thing that does is not really prevalent that we see in a lot of other Tarantino movies is feet, and he definitely didn't do it as much as this movie.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: So no, that that's a that's a win for me.
21:20
SPEAKER_03: Look at look at the restraints on our boy Quentin over here with Django and Shade.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you ever saw uh I can't I it was like a golden globe or something.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: Brad Pitt got awarded for something.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: And did you ever see his speech on it?
21:32
SPEAKER_03: Where he I'm not sure that I did, no.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: So he goes off on like, oh yeah, and thank you so much for like my co-stars.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: And I think it was for Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.
21:40
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, you know, uh um Margaret uh Quali, Margaret Quali's feet, and he starts naming people's feet, and he's like, you know, uh Tarantino has separated actresses from their feet more than the TSA.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: Tarantino was not very happy.
21:54
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, so overall, I didn't dis Like it as much.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, I do think I at its heart I wanted to see Django succeed because the story of him trying to get to his wife and try to basically just find some shred of like dignity and safety for his wife.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: It's a good story, very sincere.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: In some parts, though, it gets really muddied by Tarantinoisms, Hollywood, and like Jamie Foxx walking cool down camera.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: That I I had.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know if you found those things distracting or if you found Django storyline engaging enough.
22:37
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I I do like a storyline overall.
22:39
SPEAKER_03: I mean, uh, I think that part of what you're talking about is again related to what I was just referencing, that Tarantino is taking this roughly Civil War era story and making the black exploitation version of it.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: Sure.
22:57
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, even though we know that um, you know, some of the um clothing, like for example, sunglasses were invented hundreds of years ago.
23:08
SPEAKER_03: I can't remember exactly when, but like it's still not like a really like common signpost, at least in film language, of having you know characters in you know 18 uh 63 or 18 or sorry, 1857, whenever this movie's supposed to take place, you know, wearing shades.
23:25
SPEAKER_03: He's totally a cross-section of a uh a 70s, a black exploitation hero with a uh a former slave, you know, trying to become a free man.
23:38
SPEAKER_03: It's he's definitely doing it on purpose, right?
23:41
SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm not bothered by it, but I could understand if that's like an off-putting tonal thing to this movie.
23:48
SPEAKER_00: It's not off-putting, I feel like because those types of movies, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like those types of movies are not meant to be so sincere, they're they're for a very specific target audience, and I feel like, and we we've talked about this with other movies, those lines get muddied in this in this storyline for me, because on some fronts you have these really like barbaric, depressing, sad moments that are somewhat flashbacks of what these awful people do to him and his wife, yeah, and slaves in general, and so you see the the like horrible side of that, and then you see the sincere like bond that he and his wife have, but then at the same time it's set against that same backdrop.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: So it's to me, I'm like, I don't know if this is a formula that's gonna work, if that makes sense.
24:36
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
24:37
SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, I I don't know if that particular component of the movie is something that I have strong feelings about one way or the other.
24:47
SPEAKER_03: Um, but related to that, it it's hard for me not to watch this movie and think about the fact that okay, this is one of two films that he's made that are sort of uh um revisionist uh revenge stories.
25:04
SPEAKER_03: You know, he made Inglorious Bastards, where uh you know the allies, including you know a couple very specifically Jewish characters, get to kill Adolf Hitler, and that was his like I'm gonna give this community a revenge story about the biggest villain in their history.
25:23
SPEAKER_03: And this feels like he's kind of doing the same thing with uh uh enslaved Africans in the early Americas.
25:32
SPEAKER_03: The thing that I wonder about, and you know, I I I can't pass judgment on this, but for example, with Inglorious Bastards, I have a Jewish friend who dislike that movie because it's like, hey, Quentin, it's not your place to tell this story as a you know Gentile white dude.
25:52
SPEAKER_03: And you know, does Tarantino have the right to tell this story in Django Unchained?
25:59
SPEAKER_03: Um, obviously, there are a lot of black performers in this movie that likely I would assume didn't have an issue with the fact that you know Quentin Tarantino is being the voice for this you know specifically black American story.
26:14
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, I'm sure opinions run the gamut, but nevertheless, it's something that's hard not to think about when I watch this movie.
26:20
SPEAKER_03: No, I can see that with the amount of N-words that are flowing all over the place.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: I find that he um and there's authors who do this as well.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know if it's a direct line.
26:31
SPEAKER_00: I I'm only bringing up Stephen King because I've read a lot of his books, but he strikes me as the same type of approach that Stephen King takes in some of his books that he wants to make you uncomfortable.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: He gets into your head, he wants to get right up a close and kind of put that up as an offering in terms of those factors that make audiences uncomfortable.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: And one of those questions is yeah, I think that's a completely like honest and uh valid question when it comes to movies like this or even Glorious Bastards, um, because I don't really know too much about Tarantino's background, but it that's definitely the stories that he's drawn to.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: Sure.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think it does help.
27:12
SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you want to take uh I mean, I don't know, even movies back in the 60s, 70s, 50s, when you see Westerns that were made back then and supposed to have uh like American Indians and portrayed by Rock Hudson and stuff like that.
27:27
SPEAKER_00: He makes the right, I think, moves that way, but in terms of like spearheading the narrative, I I see what you mean.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
27:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, also, is it right the right choice for him to try to be an Australian in this movie?
27:39
SPEAKER_03: I do get a kick out of the fact that I mean you know, whenever Quentin puts himself in his own movies, it's always like, all right, dude, what yeah, have your fun, cool, fine.
27:50
SPEAKER_03: But at least in this movie, he lets himself be the total dum-dum who gets blown up by a stick of dynamite like this.
27:55
SPEAKER_03: That's pretty funny.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: No, it is, and and before we kind of get too heavy into it, I'm actually curious.
28:01
SPEAKER_00: You mentioned Pulp Fiction, uh, and I know this also splits the room too.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: What is your opinion of his performance himself in Pulp Fiction?
28:08
SPEAKER_00: Is it something that's annoying, or do you think it works?
28:13
SPEAKER_03: I think that if I was if I didn't know that that was him, I might be like, okay, that guy that they cast as Jimmy was a little weird, but okay, fine, whatever.
28:27
SPEAKER_03: But knowing that I you know, I can't not know that that is Tarantino that plays that part.
28:33
SPEAKER_03: Um, it feels a little distracting, I think.
28:37
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I can see that.
28:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's like taking the Alfred Hitchcock cameo to the next level for sure.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: When he does yeah, yeah.
28:45
SPEAKER_03: I mean, uh, Hitchcock at least had the good sense to just like sneak by in the background.
28:49
SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't know.
28:51
SPEAKER_03: Um, I I mean other filmmakers that I like have have done this.
28:55
SPEAKER_03: Peter Jackson puts himself as like you know, completely like bit, you know, even like characters that don't have lines.
29:02
SPEAKER_03: He he sticks himself in some of his films.
29:04
SPEAKER_03: Uh Mnright Shymelon likes to do it.
29:06
SPEAKER_03: Um, it always feels a little bit weird when he does it too.
29:10
SPEAKER_03: Um, so I I I don't know.
29:12
SPEAKER_03: Um I think that probably the the thing that messes me up about it a little bit is that I'm I'm involved in a narrative.
29:25
SPEAKER_03: Jamie Foxx is not Jamie Foxx, Jamie Foxx is uh um oh god, what's his character's name in this?
29:31
SPEAKER_00: Why did I just completely uh he's Django and Chains.
29:35
SPEAKER_03: Oh Django for crying out loud.
29:40
SPEAKER_03: I have either had too much or not enough of this, or it's the heat, you know, 99 degree color.
29:45
SPEAKER_03: Jamie Foxx is not Jamie Foxx, he's Django, and uh Christoph Waltz is uh um I can't remember his name either.
29:53
SPEAKER_03: Uh the uh Schultz King King Schultz.
29:58
SPEAKER_03: So when Quentin Tarantino shows up, I'm sort of like, oh, that's Quentin Tarantino.
30:04
SPEAKER_03: Now not the character, but maybe that's okay.
30:09
SPEAKER_03: Like maybe the meta goofiness of like, hey, look, it's the director in the thing, he's gonna blow himself up with dynamite, and that's fun.
30:15
SPEAKER_03: Like, maybe that's okay, but it does feel like it pulls me out of the narrative a little tiny bit.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: Well it's interesting because I feel like the character that uh kind of plays both sides of that during his whole performance is Samuel L.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: Jackson.
30:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh, like he is Steven in this movie, but he's really Samuel L.
30:32
SPEAKER_00: Jackson.
30:33
SPEAKER_03: That's fair.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: So, and and and especially too, like I remember what and I still remember this when I saw the movie in theater, and I mean the audience was really into it.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: You could tell they were Tarantino fans, but only when Jackson shows up and Tarantino shows up on screen, did it just erupt in laughter because they're like, Oh, we know who this is playing this outrageous line.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: Like, you don't get that with Leo, you don't get that with Django or Christoph Waltz.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: So I think that's an interesting point.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: Like, and I think that Samuel Jackson skirts that line a little bit.
31:04
SPEAKER_03: Maybe a little bit, yeah.
31:06
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
31:07
SPEAKER_00: Uh, let's see here.
31:08
SPEAKER_00: Jason says, I thought it worked compared to him in his later films.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, and he also says, Cheers, Curtis, for the Yes, cheers, my friend.
31:17
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm on the side, and this might sound horrible, but I'm on the side that I actually didn't mind his performance in Pulp Fiction.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: I thought he was funny, I thought it was quirky enough to where it didn't pull me too much.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: But and same with his role in this movie.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: I thought I was like, All right, might as well take a shot.
31:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
31:32
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think that to his credit, he does seem to cast himself as kind of idiots and losers, true, of some of some kind or another.
31:42
SPEAKER_03: So that's fair.
31:43
SPEAKER_03: Um, but uh uh, you know, just going through some of the things that like I that I think work in this movie and things that maybe don't think work, uh, I'm generally a fan of uh when it's done right, um, movies that have um uh these sort of like for lack of a better word, fast friends, you know, two characters that find themselves aligned in purpose or values or something to that effect.
32:12
SPEAKER_03: And because of the mutual respect they have for each other, based on that, a friendship forms really quickly.
32:19
SPEAKER_03: And I do like the relationship between Schultz and Django in this, I think they're very good together.
32:25
SPEAKER_00: And I think that especially coming off of Inglorious Bastards, I like the fact that Christoph Waltz is German because it's a polar opposite of what we encountered in the last film with him in it, uh and the bad guys in that movie.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I would agree.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: I think that dynamic works.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, but before we get too much further, because there's more things I want to bring up.
32:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh, let's talk a little bit about Espinosa at La Crema.
32:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, have you noticed any flavor change?
32:50
SPEAKER_00: If so, what are they?
32:51
SPEAKER_00: If not, what do you what's the profile?
32:53
SPEAKER_03: Um, as is typical, it's it's mellowed out a little bit.
32:56
SPEAKER_03: Um, but I still get some of those same kind of like you know, roasted vegetable flavors.
33:05
SPEAKER_03: There's probably a little bit of uh like an undercurrent of sort of a grain or breadiness in there now that maybe was like not noticeable because of the spice earlier.
33:15
SPEAKER_03: Um I'm still I'm still liking it.
33:19
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it smokes great.
33:20
SPEAKER_03: I mean, the the um burn line and smoke output and all that kind of stuff has been pretty solid.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: So I'm gonna do a deep dive into the ridiculous, some might think, because there are certain cigars that like to me, I'm like, oh, this is a clear picture of what I'm trying.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: This might sound a little bit outlandish, but I feel like flavor profile.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: If you were to take like a roasted asparagus, maybe zucchini.
33:44
SPEAKER_03: We lost we lost your video, Eric.
33:46
SPEAKER_00: One second, can you still hear me?
33:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, one second.
33:50
SPEAKER_03: Um I I will keep talking while Eric tries to fix his camera issue.
33:54
SPEAKER_03: Um I think that uh the the kind of center of the flavor profile of this uh has turned into something that is more earthy, grainy, bready, and uh that's kind of like nicely supported by the I don't know.
34:16
SPEAKER_03: I I I still, for lack of a better way to put it, those sort of like slightly herbal, slightly vegetal kind of notes that are in there.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
34:24
SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I'm back.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: Sorry about that.
34:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, no, I would say like if you had like a roasted like asparagus or something, pepper it with black pepper over like candied slash baked walnuts.
34:37
SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah, that's percent specific.
34:39
SPEAKER_00: It's very specific, but it's also like that's what's like coming.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, there's an asparagus, it's but still peppery, and there's a little bit of like toasty nuttiness that's on the sweeter side.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this is where I'm going with it.
34:49
SPEAKER_00: So might sound out outlandish, but that's kind of the profile I'm getting right now in these case.
34:55
SPEAKER_03: I'm not getting the candied component, but like we've talked about before, I'm my palate for sweetness on cigars for some reason is kind of a little taste blind.
35:04
SPEAKER_00: Well, we should we should just send an infused cigar, and you can be like, oh, it's cherries.
35:09
SPEAKER_00: But no, very good.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, I will also say for anyone who is a coffee fan out there, this is a must to pair with coffee.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: If you're looking for your next favorite like coffee pairing, um, next to Agonorsa, then I would say uh Espinosa La Prema.
35:23
SPEAKER_00: It's it does it in spades every time.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: There was a time I was like binging these every morning.
35:28
SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so but with Django Unchained, uh, things that work, things that don't.
35:33
SPEAKER_00: To me, I understand the reasoning, did not work for me.
35:36
SPEAKER_00: The modern hip hop music during certain months.
35:41
SPEAKER_00: I think that I think it's a cool, interesting idea, and I know we're gonna talk more about this type of subject on the next movie next week.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, does it work in this movie?
35:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't really think so because of the time that it first like shows up on screen.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: We're like nearly, I don't know, probably 65% through the film, and the first time that that happens, and I'm like, wait, what?
36:05
SPEAKER_00: I I feel like if Tarantino wants to do this, you need to thread that needle from the beginning and have it continue all the way through.
36:11
SPEAKER_00: It was just too jarring at the moment that it came up.
36:14
SPEAKER_03: You know, that's interesting.
36:15
SPEAKER_03: I I don't think that I noticed it in one way or the other uh when I watched it last week.
36:21
SPEAKER_03: Okay, I just kind of accepted it at face value because well, I mean, for one, I already knew that the movie was like that, but it like I was mentioned earlier, it aligns with that you know, blending of 70s black exploitation with you know a uh slave western thing.
36:39
SPEAKER_03: It just it just makes sense that he would do that in a movie like this, but um, I can understand also wanting it to feel more um uh period appropriate, I guess, with with the in terms of the musical choices and whatnot.
36:55
SPEAKER_00: And and I don't even know if it has to be period appropriate.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's more so he goes from like you know, like the original Django song at the opening credits, and then he goes into some really like classic Tarantino tension like music sub on the bottom, and then he just jumps into that, and I'm like, it's just it's kind of feeling a little too all over the place.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: It it jarred me, Mallory.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: Not so much.
37:19
SPEAKER_00: He was like, I don't know, it works.
37:20
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, for me, I don't know, this is directly pulling it out, and it first really happens when they meet uh Leonardo DiCaprio's character, and they're like, Let's go back to Candyland, and so then they like start montaging the ride back, and that's when it happens.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I don't know.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, it it maybe it works for some people, and on that note, we haven't even talked about DiCaprio's character.
37:42
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we need to.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: So, um, what are your thoughts on Calvin Candy?
37:47
SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know what?
37:48
SPEAKER_03: I really like him in this movie.
37:49
SPEAKER_03: I think I think that he's good.
37:51
SPEAKER_03: Um uh I I I mean, you know, everything kind of works.
37:55
SPEAKER_03: I mean, I like the way that he's costumed, uh, the fact that they gave him uh gross teeth not only is uh a thing that's you know sort of is a physical indicator of the rot inside his you know soul, or whatever you want to call it, but it's also something that would have been an issue for uh um, I mean, uh it would have been an issue for a lot of people at the alive at that time, but especially a rich guy who has you know access to you know probably better quality, you know, like refined flowers and stuff like that.
38:32
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, those are the things that kind of really uh cause a lot of uh tooth problems if you don't have dental hygiene.
38:40
SPEAKER_03: So um all that stuff worked for me, but I I like his um he's got pretenses to uh civility that seem to matter a lot to him.
38:56
SPEAKER_03: And uh I'm sure in his head he's you know being uh sort of a a perfect gentleman all the time, but of course we know that he's not, and so that's a a nice kind of like contrast with this, you know, attempt to be this very uh respectable, polite, you know, these are my guests, southern gentleman kind of thing, combined with a guy who is kind of monstrous in his own way.
39:27
SPEAKER_03: So and just I don't yeah, I mean the the specific notes, uh I I like his his accent, the way that he delivers his lines.
39:35
SPEAKER_03: Uh obviously, we're but we can talk about this for next week, too.
39:38
SPEAKER_03: But uh um DiCaprio seems to be a meme factory, and you know, there are famous ones that come from this film.
39:46
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I think he's good, I think he's like perfectly hateable, and uh you know, is not a weak or ineffective villain because there have been movies we've watched on the channel where the bad guy is just kind of like not that threatening or interesting, you know.
40:08
SPEAKER_03: This guy has a large personality, and he actually makes choices in the movie that directly uh create peril for our hero characters.
40:18
SPEAKER_03: So I think it's a pretty good part.
40:20
SPEAKER_00: No, I do too.
40:21
SPEAKER_00: I I am not the biggest Leonardo fan, as I've made mentioned before.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think a southern accent works better than a South African accent for him, that's for sure.
40:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, but no, I do think he really does a good job.
40:33
SPEAKER_00: And any moments that I think maybe lack in comparison to some of the other tension scenes in Tarantino movies are not his fault.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: Right.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: I feel like he does a really good job, brings his character, uh, he's engrossed in the character.
40:47
SPEAKER_00: And I do like there's like this weird in thing of like if you his character is Calvin Candy, as another character in the movie.
40:57
SPEAKER_00: If you like what he does, then he's gonna offer all these like kind of get out of jail free cards and almost benefit of doubt.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: But the moment you don't, then he's this ruthless, horrible, unhinged person.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, and yeah, that duality really works.
41:09
SPEAKER_00: And I think that he did a good job.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: The reason I mention that is because he's coming at a tall order again.
41:15
SPEAKER_00: This is the movie after Inglorious Bastards.
41:18
SPEAKER_00: Who is going to be better than Christoph Waltz's room in that?
41:21
SPEAKER_00: So he did a good job.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: I don't necessarily think the writing though, Tarantino's execution of matching scenes that are supposed to be as like as intense as the underground bar in Glorious Bastards.
41:32
SPEAKER_00: I don't think those scenes work as well.
41:34
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I would I would agree with that.
41:36
SPEAKER_03: I mean, you're that's a great call out because the you know, and Glorious Bastards has several really good scenes like that, but that that one in the bar in particular is just kind of a master class and how to do that sort of thing, right?
41:46
SPEAKER_03: There's nothing in this movie that quite hits that level, and maybe he wasn't trying to, I don't know, but but yeah, it's it's it doesn't have that level of like, oh, I I remember sitting in the theater and feeling the tension in the audience for like waiting to figure out what's gonna happen here.
42:02
SPEAKER_03: I don't think that's this movie has anything quite like that.
42:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's closest, like try to edge towards that is the dinner scene when he learns about their plan and he brings out the skull, which I'm sure you knew about the whole story about the prop and the blood and all that.
42:16
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I don't know if I know that one actually.
42:18
SPEAKER_00: So it's really interesting.
42:19
SPEAKER_00: So he goes through the whole like anatomy of the skull and this is a whole bunch of horrible racist stuff.
42:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then he's uh they get up to like challenge him and he slams his hand down and he cuts his hand.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: That's actually a real cut.
42:32
SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
42:32
SPEAKER_03: I did not know that.
42:34
SPEAKER_00: They just kept filming and he just kept acting in his character.
42:37
SPEAKER_00: So the crazy part about it is when Brumhilda comes in and he like grabs her by the jaw and then wipes that's real blood.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: He's wiping it.
42:44
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: That I don't know.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: Is that is that good?
42:48
SPEAKER_00: Is that bad?
42:49
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
42:49
SPEAKER_00: That's at least dedication on his part.
42:51
SPEAKER_03: It is going.
42:52
SPEAKER_00: So like and the following uh uh subsequential what's the word I'm looking at?
42:58
SPEAKER_00: Sequential sequential subsequent subsequent, yeah, scenes uh with him with hand bandaged up was the continuity thing they had wasn't in the script.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: So interesting.
43:08
SPEAKER_00: But that scene as a whole, you don't feel the gut-wrenching tension you do in the other movies, yeah.
43:13
SPEAKER_03: It's not the same.
43:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: Um now with his uh kind of his character, we see a lot through Candyland Christoph Waltz's character, like his empathy come out.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts on his portrayal?
43:30
SPEAKER_03: Uh, I like him in this movie a lot too.
43:32
SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's it's good that it is definitely a very different part from uh Inglorious Bastards.
43:38
SPEAKER_03: Um, because what you don't want to see with uh you know filmmakers who have like a stable of actors they like to work with all the time is to feel like they're just slotting into the same role all the time.
43:49
SPEAKER_03: And Sam Jackson verges on being that guy sometimes in Tarantino's movies.
43:53
SPEAKER_03: I don't think this one qualifies.
43:55
SPEAKER_03: I think that Steven Wright is the character's name.
43:58
SPEAKER_03: He's definitely not really like.
44:00
SPEAKER_03: An analog to Jules.
44:01
SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure.
44:03
SPEAKER_03: But um uh again, I it's I I like the the friendship between uh Schultz and Django.
44:12
SPEAKER_03: I like that they do a lot of things that demonstrate, you know, the show don't tell kind of thing of you know how this guy's you know pretty smart, usually a couple steps ahead of most everybody in the room, and uh you know makes choices that are directly informed by his his worldview.
44:32
SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, the fun bits like for example, where he uh primes the uh uh dynamite into the big tooth on top of his cart because of all those uh you know proto-KKK guys show up, which by the way, that scene's hilarious where they're arguing about the masks and I they can't see out of the eye holes.
44:50
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, cracks me up.
44:52
SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's and that's the sort of thing that like you know that I do appreciate about Tarantino's movies is that he finds moments like that to um you know uh create humor and or make commentary on these evil people uh that most other filmmakers would have been like cut out of the movie in the script stage.
45:12
SPEAKER_03: They just like nah this is gonna be a waste of time, we shouldn't shoot this.
45:15
SPEAKER_03: Um but yeah, you know, he he gets he gets the jump on those guys for sure.
45:21
SPEAKER_03: And I I just like the way that they um demonstrate uh who he is through his behavior, it's pretty good.
45:28
SPEAKER_00: I agree, and like you had mentioned about like their friendship.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: Um there is an ease as quick as their friendship uh occurs, and as much as Christoph Waltz is ready to put his life on the line to help them reunite.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: Not none of it to me really feels forced.
45:44
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't feel like, okay, why does he care?
45:45
SPEAKER_00: Like the connection that Brumhilde is also can speak German and all those types of things, it just kind of works.
45:51
SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't leave me scratching my head being like, okay, well, of course he's supposed to do this because that's just his character.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: I think it's very sincere.
45:57
SPEAKER_00: And Christoph Waltz, that's an attribute to him, his acting, that he can move into a role like that.
46:03
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
46:03
SPEAKER_03: Well, and they they they established that he's a little bit of a romantic soul, and I don't mean in the terms of like love relationships, but that sort of like, you know, he's very much uh attached to finding the you know the subtextual or metaphorical meaning in life.
46:19
SPEAKER_03: So, you know, he realizes that he's got this uh you know, um new friend whose wife needs to be saved, and she's Brunhilde, which is you know directly related to the fairy tale that he's familiar with as a German, like he sees meaning in that immediately and uh and and takes it seriously.
46:39
SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, no, I think it works.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: Uh Raider Dave is saying on the Leo front, I also like Leo's character, he played it well.
46:47
SPEAKER_00: I found myself feeling hatred towards the character.
46:50
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't stand Don Johnson's character, it felt force.
46:54
SPEAKER_00: Um which I mean, I thought Don Johnson's character was, I mean, it was humorous.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think one element that I would agree with Raider Dave on this is that even like as comical as that scene is, like when the mob goes to like give them their comeuppets, it really takes away any tension or threat from them because you're like, oh, they're just a bunch of doofuses, like nothing's gonna really happen.
47:19
SPEAKER_00: So there is that.
47:21
SPEAKER_00: Um but okay, so I know we're coming down to the end.
47:24
SPEAKER_00: I wanted to actually talk about this too before we close it.
47:29
SPEAKER_00: The way this movie is gonna lose points for me is I cannot separate Tarantino from his other movies, and that's because of the director that Tarantino is.
47:39
SPEAKER_00: He's very much of the here's my I'm gonna make I think 10 movies overall, and these are the ones that I do.
47:44
SPEAKER_00: And so I feel like I can't help but hold them side by side in Glorious Bastards.
47:50
SPEAKER_00: What I feel like is is maybe outlandish as it is, I enjoy the fact that he saves room for sincerity and comedy and splits those two between two different characters.
48:03
SPEAKER_00: So you have Soshana who wants revenge and justice, horrible Nazis, and what they have done, and then you have Brad Pitt as the comic relief and the kind of like bloody, gritty aspect that Tarantino likes to jump into.
48:17
SPEAKER_00: In this movie, I feel like you run the risk a little bit of Jamie Foxx kind of having to do both.
48:24
SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is he's very much like on the run, he's scared, he's very upset, mad.
48:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I want revenge, I want to save my wife, I want to storm the castle, all those things good.
48:34
SPEAKER_00: At the same time, the minute you get a gun in his hand, he's Jamie Foxx from I don't know, Bad Boys.
48:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he's like that type of cop demeanor, like, oh yeah, it's go in, kill everybody, walk cool, blow up the plate.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm just like, I don't know if this is working for me, and I prefer the Inglorious Bastards separation because it makes more sense.
48:54
SPEAKER_00: Does any of that make sense, or or what do you think?
48:56
SPEAKER_03: It does.
48:57
SPEAKER_03: And I I you know, I don't know if it's something that was an oversight or if it was an intentional change in tone, but uh to the degree that this movie aims for sincerity, I don't think it achieves it quite as often as something like Inglorious Bastards does.
49:14
SPEAKER_03: Like you, I mean, I think it's great to point out, you know, Shoshano's story in that movie is definitely like you know, very symbolic and uh um you know tragic.
49:25
SPEAKER_03: Uh and this movie, because the the the specific story that's being told, maybe can't quite hit those same notes.
49:32
SPEAKER_03: I don't know, but um uh and even though the movie does its level best to um make you feel the affection between uh Brunhilde and Django, um, it almost feels like the real love story is Django and uh Schultz.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I would agree.
49:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would agree, and and I think too to echo that point, we we go through I don't know, almost two hours, maybe over two hours to watch them reunite, and we don't even get a conversation or embrace.
50:04
SPEAKER_00: We get a she faints as a comical scene on the floor, cut to the next.
50:08
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, wait, what?
50:10
SPEAKER_00: Like that to me, I'm like, that's that doesn't work.
50:12
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't pay off your audience.
50:14
SPEAKER_03: As a filmmaker who generally, I think you know, does a pretty reasonable job with strong female characters as stylized and sort of you know, wish fulfillment as they might be, like the bride or um uh uh why can't I think of the uh I mean even uh uh Uma Thurman in um Pulp Fiction is kind of like a larger personality.
50:40
SPEAKER_03: Uh Bernhilde feels a little thin, I think.
50:43
SPEAKER_03: Yes, I would agree by comparison.
50:46
SPEAKER_00: I would agree.
50:47
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that that was something that I think really I was like, why am I not engaged as much?
50:51
SPEAKER_00: Now, this is a Western revenge story, so a lot is dedicated to the gore and payback and sure people that were being jerks getting their comeuppets.
51:01
SPEAKER_00: If you had to pick one that you feel like the payoff worked the best for you, who is it that you think like there's a moment of like, yeah, that's good?
51:09
SPEAKER_00: Like when they when they get their comeuppets.
51:11
SPEAKER_00: Is there any character that you felt that in this movie?
51:14
SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, it's a relatively minor moment, and I don't even know if it's like, you know, the one that I think is like works the best or is my favorite or anything like that.
51:22
SPEAKER_03: But I do like the scene where they go to uh Don Johnson's uh plantation because they're there to specifically uh you know serve the bounties on those two guys that Django is supposed to identify.
51:36
SPEAKER_03: And there he is in his like comical clothes that he's picked for himself, where it's like again, you know, if we're looking at the 70s, you know, black exploitation movies, that might as well be his pimp suit that he's carrying.
51:47
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and uh, you know, we get to see the role reversal where he's got the whip and does that and is you know making doing all of these things that a black man in 1857 would never be allowed to get away with, right?
52:02
SPEAKER_03: And all the slaves there get to witness it happen and stuff like that.
52:06
SPEAKER_03: I think that's a pretty cool sequence.
52:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, and I think there are some good visuals in that too.
52:12
SPEAKER_00: Like when the one of the brothers is riding away on the horse, we don't even see where he gets shot, but you have the spray of red against the white cotton and stuff like that.
52:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, symbolic, pretty good too.
52:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, but I also enjoy when uh Calvin Candy's sister gets shot out of the room.
52:27
SPEAKER_03: Oh, sure, yeah.
52:28
SPEAKER_03: Say goodbye to Flora.
52:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
52:30
SPEAKER_00: And the way it's set up, and it almost like you're saying that role reversal when the the maid basically dismisses her and she flies out the room.
52:36
SPEAKER_00: I was like, all right, that's good, that's clever.
52:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he's definitely using uh violence for comedy in that, and I think it works.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we're gonna come down to rating very soon, but we need to discuss the final third of Espinosa La Crema.
52:51
SPEAKER_00: Um, to me, I'm not gonna say I've noticed a lot of flavor changes, but I don't necessarily know if I need them in a cigar like this.
52:59
SPEAKER_00: In terms of yeah, Connecticut, full flavor.
53:02
SPEAKER_00: I would say I would make the argument it is full-bodied and then mild to maybe medium strength, but it's nothing too heavy.
53:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, I I agree with that too.
53:12
SPEAKER_03: And um the thing that I appreciate about this, that I appreciate about most of the what I call like the good Connecticut that that you've brought through, like with porcelain and others, yeah, is that um even if this isn't my favorite flavor profile, it's not boring.
53:30
SPEAKER_03: Yes, it's a cigar that stays interesting and flavorful in a way that appeals to my palate all the way through.
53:36
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I would agree.
53:38
SPEAKER_00: And I I think it's a good demonstration of like people always trying to reinvent the wheel.
53:43
SPEAKER_00: Oh, we got to have like a strong, strong Connecticut.
53:45
SPEAKER_00: And I know we've Mallory and I have talked about this.
53:47
SPEAKER_00: We've never done a legit like Connecticut custom in the membership of the society.
53:52
SPEAKER_00: I want to, but it needs to check certain boxes, and I don't think strength has to be there, but like you're saying, engaging, uh profile is where you like it.
54:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's not boring, not the easiest thing to accomplish, but when done right, I'm like, man, that is a standout cigar.
54:08
SPEAKER_00: Like, I really enjoy it.
54:10
SPEAKER_00: So, um, is there any other closing remarks before we go to rating?
54:14
SPEAKER_03: No, I don't think so.
54:16
SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay, so let's first rate the cigar on a scale from one to ten.
54:20
SPEAKER_00: Where does Espinoza la crema land for you?
54:26
SPEAKER_00: God, right.
54:30
SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
54:32
SPEAKER_00: All right, you got seven, and I got an eight.
54:34
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very nice, very nice.
54:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and for Connecticut scoring really high.
54:39
SPEAKER_00: Very important.
54:40
SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, yeah.
54:40
SPEAKER_03: So for for me, anything uh like six and a half and above is like this is a cigar that I like.
54:49
SPEAKER_03: I want to smoke it again.
54:50
SPEAKER_03: I would recommend it to other people.
54:51
SPEAKER_00: Yes, 100%.
54:53
SPEAKER_00: And I wouldn't necessarily say for someone who's like, I like very, very, very, very mild.
54:58
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I don't know if I'd recommend this for you.
55:00
SPEAKER_03: Maybe not.
55:00
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, bit heavier for sure.
55:03
SPEAKER_00: Uh before we go to raiding Django, Raider Dave says, not to get off topic, but before you guys go, are there any plans to review The Immortal Man?
55:11
SPEAKER_00: I'm interested to hear your takes on it.
55:13
SPEAKER_03: I don't think I know that one.
55:15
SPEAKER_00: The Immortal Man.
55:16
SPEAKER_03: Gonna have to look that up.
55:20
SPEAKER_00: Oh, oh, oh, the new Peaky Blinders movie.
55:23
SPEAKER_00: The Immortal.
55:24
SPEAKER_03: Oh gosh, you know, I still need to go back and watch the most recent season of the TV series.
55:29
SPEAKER_03: I I haven't finished that.
55:32
SPEAKER_03: And to do that, I'm gonna have to go on YouTube and watch like a plot recap because it's been years now since I've watched any season of Peaky Blinders.
55:40
SPEAKER_03: And I love the show.
55:41
SPEAKER_03: I mean, the performances are great.
55:42
SPEAKER_03: I love the style and tone of it.
55:44
SPEAKER_03: But if you ask me point blank right now to remember the details of the plot, that's not happening.
55:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I it's on my list, Dave.
55:54
SPEAKER_00: I have not seen it yet.
55:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, as people know, I'm a big fan of the show.
55:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it is on the list.
56:00
SPEAKER_00: What are your thoughts?
56:01
SPEAKER_00: Don't give anything away, but uh good, bad, what do you think?
56:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, and why you're thinking about that.
56:05
SPEAKER_00: Jason says, Don't forget Jonah Hill's scene was really funny.
56:09
SPEAKER_00: Uh, did anyone see Jamie Foxx reprise reprise Django in A Million Ways to Die in the West?
56:15
SPEAKER_03: I did not see that movie.
56:17
SPEAKER_03: That's the Shane.
56:18
SPEAKER_03: No, what's his name?
56:19
SPEAKER_03: Seth McCarrell.
56:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a long time ago.
56:23
SPEAKER_00: Long time ago.
56:25
SPEAKER_00: Um Jason says in terms of the or Mortal Man.
56:28
SPEAKER_00: I saw it.
56:29
SPEAKER_00: I give it an eight.
56:30
SPEAKER_00: Nice, nice.
56:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay, time to rate Django Unchained.
56:34
SPEAKER_00: Where does this lie?
56:38
SPEAKER_00: Write this down.
56:42
SPEAKER_00: All right, ready?
56:44
SPEAKER_03: It's the same sticky note.
56:46
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I got a 6.8.
56:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
56:48
SPEAKER_00: 6.8.
56:49
SPEAKER_00: Just below 7.
56:50
SPEAKER_00: I couldn't go as high as seven, but honestly, if someone were to say, what would you rate this before I rewatched it?
56:55
SPEAKER_00: I would have said a five.
56:56
SPEAKER_03: Okay.
56:57
SPEAKER_03: So it's a pretty big jump.
56:58
SPEAKER_00: It is a big jump.
56:59
SPEAKER_00: In fact, where it's like, yeah, maybe down the line I'd watch this again.
57:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't think it really in comparison to his other movies, it's not one of his better ones.
57:07
SPEAKER_00: I'll say that.
57:09
SPEAKER_03: No, no.
57:10
SPEAKER_03: And I, you know, even though I did enjoy watching it again, I'm probably not gonna seek this out again if I do for a good number of years.
57:19
SPEAKER_03: It's it's enjoyable, but I don't feel you know, so many of the things that drive me to re-watch a movie is like I want to live in this moment again because it's funny, it's heartfelt, it's awesome, it's scary, it's whatever.
57:33
SPEAKER_03: And I just you know, I like the way this movie delivers those feelings.
57:36
SPEAKER_03: Nothing in this movie quite drives me that way.
57:40
SPEAKER_00: To be honest, I think for me personally, it's that it's up here, and then we get to Candyland and it's down here.
57:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, I like all the other things that are happening, and I'm like, maybe it's just the setting, like to set another hour and 35 minutes or whatever on a plantation in the south, just doesn't really work for me, I guess.
58:01
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I can see that so uh we next week we are concluding this series.
58:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I believe, Curtis, it is your pick.
58:11
SPEAKER_00: So, what movie are we talking about next week?
58:14
SPEAKER_03: Well, I was looking through uh Leo's movies, and there's a lot of interesting ones to talk about, but um, there's one particular one that's part of that meme factory thing that I was referring to that I have never seen.
58:27
SPEAKER_03: So we're gonna watch the Great Gatsby.
58:29
SPEAKER_00: The Great Gatsby.
58:30
SPEAKER_00: I have not seen that since I believe the theater.
58:33
SPEAKER_03: So it'll be it's like 10 years old now, maybe even more than that.
58:37
SPEAKER_03: I can't remember when that came out.
58:39
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's old.
58:40
SPEAKER_00: It's old.
58:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, that will that will be the last one that we watch uh from this series.
58:47
SPEAKER_00: Um, it was 2013.
58:49
SPEAKER_00: So 13 years ago.
58:51
SPEAKER_00: So, guys, we will be back next week.
58:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh, check out Espinoza uh Connecticut.
58:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a really brilliant cigar.
58:58
SPEAKER_00: Final comment.
58:59
SPEAKER_00: I'll uh withhold my opinion so not to create expectations, but I will say I watched it twice.
59:04
SPEAKER_00: All right.
59:05
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
59:06
SPEAKER_03: That sounds like an endorsement.
59:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
59:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay, guys, thank you for jumping on and joining us for uh this week's Cigars and Cinema podcast, and we'll be back next week for another episode.
59:16
SPEAKER_00: So everyone have a great week.
59:17
SPEAKER_03: Good night, y'all.