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American HODL | Simply Bitcoin IRL · Simply Bitcoin

0:00
I do think the SPR is going to happen because it's like a
0:02
starting gun on nation state level adoption.
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Other nations are going to go out and start their own
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strategic Bitcoin reserves. And Larry Fink is literally up
0:10
there saying that sovereign wealth funds are asking him
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should we do a 2% allocation or a 5% allocation to Bitcoin?
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They're not saying Bitcoin's a scam.
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Bitcoin's a fucking piece of shit.
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Bitcoins, fake gold, Internet money.
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They're saying 2 or 5%. Larry, what do you think?
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It's just a totally new paradigm.
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So, so sovereign wealth funds, nation states, they're going to
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take this thing a lot higher. And I think there's a lot of
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forward momentum and positive catalyst to look forward to.
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And I don't think a bull market really like will end until
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there's nothing left on the road map to look forward to.
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Yo what's up dude? It's good to see you again.
0:44
Buddy. Good to see you thriving man.
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One of the things that I love. Driving, bro, when I first met
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you, you weren't even a podcaster guy, you know what I
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mean? All.
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Right, Bitcoin does things, bro. One of the things I love about
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you, man are your inspirational posts.
1:02
It used to be on X now it's mostly on Noster and they're so
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useful, bro. Like I, I, you know, now I've
1:10
been in Bitcoin nine years, but you know, in the, in the early
1:14
eras, man, they, they really, they really helped me a lot And
1:17
I, I really, really appreciate them.
1:19
So if anyone hasn't seen Hoddle's Noster posts, I highly,
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highly recommend them. But one of the things that I
1:27
think you have on your Twitter banner is the three green, one
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red. And we are in the last, the last
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green before the red. Do do you think?
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Do you think cycles are still a thing?
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I mean, listen, I think that it behooves you to think of cycles
1:49
as still being a thing, yes, because you know, the
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expectation, you should have a constant expectation that
1:55
there's a brutal, horrible bear market that's coming for you any
2:00
minute now. And if you don't get it, then
2:03
it's like, cool, that's awesome. We didn't get a brutal, horrible
2:07
bear market. So you want to be like pleasant,
2:09
you want to set yourself up to be pleasantly surprised, right?
2:11
But like, as a Bitcoiner who has a lot of scar tissue and PTSD
2:15
from the years of being a Bitcoiner, I would say I'm, I'm
2:20
pretty much, you know, planning on there being some sort of a
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brutal bear market drawdown. And if we don't get it, it would
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be, it'd be fun, it'd be great, it'd be cool.
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It'd be a new era. But right now that's my baseline
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assumption. Yeah, man.
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And I, I, I guess the, the question for you Huddle is, you
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know, one of the things that you've mentioned in in the past,
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and it was again, one of these epic posts that you make, which
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is the class of 2021 has been poorly treated, has been
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mistreated. And it was like kind of like
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this lack. It was just this, this, it was
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like kind of a bull market. But then there was the China
2:58
mining ban and we didn't really get this blow off top.
3:02
And I was looking at the numbers, we haven't had a blow
3:05
off top since 2017 and this year and last year.
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I'm getting 20/16/2017 vibes in this bull market.
3:16
And I think people are not prepared.
3:19
And if Bitcoin's doing exactly the same thing that it did in in
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early 2017. The difference now though is
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Trump's in office, right? This it looks like this SBR
3:29
thing might happen. Of course, Michael Saylor is
3:33
killing it on the institutional level.
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What are your thoughts, man? Is it is the fun of Bitcoin
3:38
gone? Is it over?
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Are we ever going to get, you know, these crazy, crazy blow
3:43
off tops ever again? Yeah, good question.
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OK. So I do think let's take it a
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couple, couple things at a time. Like I do think the SBR is going
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to happen. I have a high degree of
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confidence in that, but I think it's going to be weak form SBR
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or some people call it SBR Light, which is just a
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rebranding of the coins that we are the American government
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already holds that don't have any title.
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So the coins that they hold that basically are from criminals who
4:13
no one is coming forth to claim because it would mean admitting
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you did a criminal act and you end up in jail for 12 years,
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like Ross Holberg, right? So those are the coins the US
4:20
government hold. I think it's the easiest lift in
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the world to just rename those coins and call them strategic
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Bitcoin Reserve, right? And so a lot of people are
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saying, well, that's not a real strategic Bitcoin reserve.
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And if we get that, that doesn't really count, but I, I think it
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does count. And I have a high degree of
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confidence that that will happen.
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Like I would say pretty damn near 100% confidence that that
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will happen. Number one, because it doesn't
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cost the US government anything. It's a campaign promise.
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It helps Trump, you know, support like sort of, you know,
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the people that supported him, the Bitcoiners in the crypto
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lobby broadly, you know, and, and if you look at Trump's first
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action, like actions first three days in office, he's been really
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like keeping his campaign promises.
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Basically anything that was a campaign promise, he's just
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doing via executive order. And I think that's the way the
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SBR happens is via executive order.
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So I expect that and I think it will still be a big deal even
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though there's probably not going to be any net new buying
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or minimal net new buying from it.
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And the reason it'll be a big deal is because it's like a
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starting gun on nation state level adoption.
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And so other nations are going to go out and, you know, start
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their own strategic Bitcoin reserves in order to, you know,
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not be out competed by the US or to be able to be in a position
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when the US changes the hegemonic state.
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Larry Fink was that Davos recently, which by the way, I
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was been watching some of the coverage out of Davos, which
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normally I watch it and cringe and this year is no exception.
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I cringe also. But there's they've had never
5:47
had more pro Bitcoin content than they had coming out of
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Davos. And Larry Fink is literally up
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there saying that sovereign wealth funds are asking him
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should we do a 2% allocation or a 5% allocation to Bitcoin.
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They're not saying bitcoins a scam, Bitcoins a fucking piece
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of shit, bitcoins, fake gold Internet money.
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They're saying 2 or 5%. Larry, what do you think?
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And I mean, that's, that's just a totally new paradigm.
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So sovereign wealth funds, nation states, etcetera.
6:11
Yeah, I mean, they're going to take this thing, they're going
6:14
to take this thing a lot higher. And I think we have a lot of,
6:16
there's a lot of forward momentum and positive catalyst
6:19
to look forward to. And I don't think a bull market
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really, like will end until, you know, we get over that, like
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until there's nothing left on the road map to look forward to.
6:29
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, what what would you
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say in in the videos of Davos have been incredible.
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You have the I saw the CEO of UBSCO of a Bank of America
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basically like, look, we don't really like like we don't really
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like this thing, but we don't really have a choice.
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The regulatory environment in the United States is changing
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for whatever reason. People really like this thing.
6:51
We can't help it. And you know, the things that
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you were saying earlier, the things that would normally come
6:56
out of Davos was like, you know, central bank, digital
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currencies, ID all the the most horrific ideas.
7:02
You'll own nothing and be happy. And all of a sudden it becomes a
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semi Bitcoin conference, which is absolutely hilarious.
7:10
But do you think, you know, do you think because again, at
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these prices, Hotto, it's so difficult, I guess to 2X, you
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know, cuz it's like it's a lot easier to 2X from 1K to two KA2X
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right now would bring us over 200,000.
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Like it it, do you think that's even possible within a year?
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Do you think a two or three or 4X is possible?
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Or do you believe into this idea of the the the whole diminishing
7:35
returns narrative? Yeah.
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So I don't I don't believe in diminished returns.
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I think that we we could see diminished returns or something
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that looks like diminished returns.
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And then, you know, people would say we'll all see diminished
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returns are real. But at any point in time, the
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world can sort of wake up to Bitcoin and begin to bid the big
7:57
the Bitcoin price massively. And so, I mean, there's a lot of
8:01
things to say here, but I think one thing that you could say
8:04
here is there's this idea of power law, for instance, that
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there's going to be this slow gradual transition state while
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the world Bitcoin ises. And I'm, I'm somewhat
8:16
sympathetic to that idea because I do think that hyper
8:19
bitcoinization, which is, you know, basically a, the Bitcoin
8:24
side of a hyperinflationary event, I think is unlikely to
8:28
occur anytime in the near future.
8:30
So we're not going to have this rapid transition between Fiat
8:34
currency and, and Bitcoin at least in the next maybe 10
8:39
years, or at least I don't, I can't see that now.
8:41
Maybe maybe it happens, but I can't see it.
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So I'm, I'm sympathetic to the idea that the power law, you
8:49
know, or just the idea of slow, gradual change and
8:52
bitcoinization is, is occurring in that that would go along with
8:55
the idea of diminished returns, right?
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But I also think there's this idea of a phase transition,
9:02
which is the antithesis to the power law idea, and it's a
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broader, it's broader than just hyperbiquinization, which is
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hyperbiquinization is just about hyperinflation of the currency.
9:13
But a phase transition, if you think about it as like the
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moment when water goes from a liquid to a solid, it freezes to
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ice, that happens extremely rapidly, right?
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That's a phase transition. But over time, there's a lot of
9:26
energy built up before that rapid transition occurs.
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And so I also am sympathetic to the idea that we're building
9:32
this momentous energy in Bitcoin and there's some sort of a phase
9:36
transition out there that is equivalent to water freezing the
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ice. But we just don't.
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What we don't know is the freezing point.
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We don't know at what temperature, you know, so to
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speak, Bitcoin suddenly captures the hearts and minds and
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attention of all global capital market participants.
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And then the bid goes like, you know, basically parabolic
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overnight. We don't know if or when that
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happens. But if you're a Bitcoiner and
10:01
you've been around for a while, you kind of, you kind of feel
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what I'm saying is like it's out there in the distance somewhere.
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We just don't know the transition state, You know, we
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don't know the inciting incident that will cause it to occur.
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So, you know, it's coming. Yeah.
10:15
Yeah. So this is kind of a complicated
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way to say, like, I think diminished returns is the law of
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the land until it's not. And I think that there is a
10:23
potential that this time around we take out the diminished
10:28
returns, you know, sort of hypothesis here and it would
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look, it's going to look chaotic if that happens.
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So let's just go through the scenario real quick.
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Everybody's expecting a diminished return cycle top
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somewhere around like the 250K range.
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That could be 180 K on the low side, could be like 340K on the
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high side, something like that. But somewhere in that range, I
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think that you, you might see a massive wave of selling there.
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And then it will seem seemingly confirm the diminished returns
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hypothesis. Like, because if we go to like,
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let's say 260 and then we fall back to like 140, people are
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going to be like, see, this was it, it's over, bull market's
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over. I sold, I'm a genius, you're all
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idiots, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
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Right? And then what's going to happen,
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I think, or what could happen is that the market starts to bid
11:17
and the market starts to bid and bid and bid and it goes back to
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260 and then it's at 360. And then it's at 4, right?
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And then the people that sold who were all of a sudden taking
11:28
victory lap saying I'm a genius are going, I'm sidelined.
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This is the moment the phase transition is occurring.
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Hyperbiquitization is occurring. I got a pile back in.
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And then they pile back in and that takes us up to 789 a
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million, right? Somewhere in that range.
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That's where you get the, the parabolic, the FOMO.
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This kind of happened in 2017. People started selling around
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10K and then it quickly became obvious that 10K, like within
11:54
like a day or two, it became obvious that 10K was just not
11:57
the right level to sell at. And a lot of people piled back
12:00
into their positions and it quickly took us to 20.
12:03
I think you can see the same sort of thing play out.
12:05
So yeah, don't know that that's going to happen, but I wouldn't
12:09
bet against that happening. Yeah, and I agree.
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I, I, I, I have that, that feel. Maybe it's because I've been in
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this for a while, but I, I, I have that, that, that feeling,
12:19
right? It's, it's, it's, it's very, and
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you know, you know why I have that feeling huddle is because
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the, the mass narrative, the consensus this cycle around is
12:30
exactly what you said, 150K to 250K.
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You and I both know that Bitcoin does the exact effing opposite
12:39
of what everyone thinks. And if the general consensus
12:42
IS150K to 250K, everyone's going to exactly what you said.
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They're going to think they're smart as hell because they're,
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oh, it's 200, we're going to sell, this thing's going to
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crash TO70K, we'll buy back in. No, but Bitcoin does the exact
12:55
opposite. So is it going to do the exact
12:57
opposite towards the lower end? I don't think so.
13:00
Or is it going to do the top the exact opposite to the upper end?
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Maybe? The thing is, it's we, we have
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not experienced this for so long.
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We forgot what this feels like as a as a community, you know,
13:12
so I. Think that's another thing
13:14
that's another similarity to I was I was going over the
13:18
similarities to 2017 because I was feeling very much like this
13:22
was the beginning of 2017. I came in the end of 14 so I was
13:26
already here in the beginning of 17.
13:28
A lot of our Bitcoin friends came in during 17 because that
13:31
was a big hype cycle. So a lot of people join like mid
13:33
year and that was and they were new and they didn't know what
13:35
was going on and whatever. But I remember watching it form
13:38
and the similarities between then and now are actually kind
13:41
of interesting. And one of the similarities was
13:44
the longer and harder a bear market has been, the more
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selling you see around all time highs.
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And now we're not really at 69 K, we're not at the all time
13:54
high, but we're kind of a right around the inflation adjusted
13:57
all time high. And so, you know, you see a lot
14:00
of this selling because people's net worths are now back where
14:03
they were before they went through this calamitous bear
14:07
market. And you know what happens to
14:09
people in these bear markets as they go, I'm so stupid.
14:13
I should have sold, I should have bought that house, I should
14:15
have bought that car. I should have taken that
14:17
vacation. I should have quit my job.
14:19
Why didn't I do this? I was so rich.
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Now I'm so poor. And they spent three years like,
14:23
you know, basically self flagellating and, and say,
14:26
beating themselves up. And they get so fixated on the
14:28
things they should have, could have would have done that when
14:31
the high prices come back around, they end up doing those
14:33
things, right? So that's one, we're seeing a
14:35
lot of sluggishness in the price around this level because of I
14:38
think, selling, which is connected to the psychology of
14:42
the bear market. The second thing that's similar
14:44
is people's expectations for 20/17 were very low.
14:49
So when we came into the year, I was telling people that we were
14:52
going to 2700 when we were sitting around 800 or so, which
14:56
see, which seemed to be like kind of a bullish prediction.
14:59
It was like moderately bullish. But when you look at it, when
15:02
you look at that year and what ended up occurring, I was wildly
15:06
off the mark by almost 10X right.
15:08
So that's that's pretty nuts that like it went, it did things
15:11
that nobody expected it to do. The other thing too is like we
15:15
fought the whole year for these, you know, different price
15:19
levels. You basically each one K up was
15:21
like a real fight and in the middle of the full run was
15:25
probably got stuck somewhere around 4K and then we like
15:29
collapsed and a lot of people were thinking it was over,
15:31
right. So that was kind of that
15:32
diminished returns narrative that we were talking about.
15:34
Like people were just like 4K and then done.
15:37
And I know a lot of people that actually sold around the 4K
15:39
level and thought they had done very well.
15:42
And it turns out that that they hadn't, right.
15:45
And then I think also the another similarity with 2017 is
15:50
that we had a lot of new market entrants and I'm we have that
15:54
every bull run. Obviously bull runs bring people
15:56
in, but I'm starting to see more and more new people than ever
16:00
before. So I think like again, there's
16:02
just, there's a lot of similarities, not saying that
16:04
it's going to be exactly like 2017, which would indicate a
16:07
$2,000,000 Bitcoin price. I think that history rhymes, but
16:12
it doesn't repeat. Like these are just, it's always
16:14
kind of similar in terms of vibes, but it's never exactly
16:17
the same. So don't like trade on this
16:19
information. The plan is still to buy Bitcoin
16:22
and huddle that Bitcoin. But if you're looking at it
16:24
like, you know, where you might be able to take a little bit of
16:27
living expenses for the next 4 years, you might be able to take
16:29
your family on that vacation. Like probably wait, I don't
16:32
know. I think my personal opinion is
16:33
if you wait another like 10 months, 11 months, you're going
16:36
to have a lot better, you know, get a lot better value for those
16:39
things. But we'll see.
16:40
Absolutely, absolutely, man. But yes to echo what you're
16:44
saying I 100% feel those vibes man and I'm class of 2016 and I
16:51
am getting 2017 esque vibes but I don't know we'll wait and see.
16:58
Doesn't matter if you just stay humble stack SAT stay solvent.
17:01
But one of the things also all that I want to talk about too,
17:04
which is you created this legendary meme, which is, you
17:08
know, 6.15 eternal riches and we're on YouTube, but you guys
17:13
can complete the sentence. And you know, that might seem
17:19
out of reach for many, many people now, right?
17:22
You, you've been saying this for years.
17:23
So, you know, you gave a lot of people a lot of time.
17:26
I think you got you got a lot of people to, you know, to, to
17:30
those numbers and, and to at least hit or, or or set a goal,
17:35
which was achievable. Now that time is gone.
17:39
Now we're at $100,000 Bitcoin, 6.15 more than half, $1,000,000
17:45
for the everyday person is just unfeasible, right?
17:49
Bitcoin now is more than the average yearly salary of an
17:52
American, right? What what should be the goal
17:56
now? What should be the goal?
17:57
And I'll, I'll give a add a secondary question.
18:01
Are people too late to Bitcoin? Man, are too?
18:03
Are people too late to benefit from it?
18:06
So let's take that one first. I think my, my answer here is
18:11
absolutely not. And I know that like there's a
18:14
bunch of people who hear me say that and they go, Oh yeah, look
18:17
at this guy. You got it so early.
18:19
So easy for him to say that he's just looking for absolute
18:22
liquidity he wants to dump on you, blah, blah, blah.
18:26
But I believe that all my net worth is in Bitcoin because I
18:30
believe that I still believe we're early.
18:32
And if I thought we had peaked or whatever, I would sell out
18:35
and, you know, go into real estate or tech stocks or
18:38
equities or something. So I believe that I'm positioned
18:41
in that way. And I think that Bitcoin has
18:44
1000 X further to go, which indicates a price of $100
18:47
million, which is a crazy number.
18:49
But we're at $100,000. And when I first started buying
18:53
it 200, a $100,000 seemed fucking crazy too.
18:57
And it was and now it's real. So Bitcoin, you know, makes
19:01
impossible things possible. On the 6.1 five thing I want to
19:06
say just shout out to the 6.1 five guys.
19:08
Proud of you guys at 162,603 dollars.
19:12
I think they are a millionaires, right?
19:15
So there's this like Jay-Z line I think about where he goes.
19:19
I done made more millionaires than the Lotto did and I'm going
19:22
to feel proud of that fact when we hit 162,600.
19:25
Like I actually literally like help make more millionaires than
19:28
the lottery did. That's pretty cool.
19:31
And there's a lot further for those guys to go.
19:33
I mean, if you take my implied price of 6.1 or 100 million *
19:37
6.15, it's $615 million. So you got to keep huddling.
19:42
1,000,000 is not the goal, 1,000,000 is not the goal.
19:44
My friends, for the new people who are thinking like these are
19:48
big numbers, like, you know, in order to get 6.15 Bitcoin, you
19:51
got to have like $630,000 or something at this moment in
19:54
time. I'm definitely not insinuating
19:57
that the average person should make that their goal because
19:59
$600,000 liquid capital is like something that even rich people
20:03
don't have. So don't feel bad if that's not
20:06
something you have you got to do.
20:08
What you can, where you are with what you have available to you.
20:11
And I think if I was a young guy coming in right now, I had
20:15
missed it over the last 10 years, I, my goal would probably
20:18
be one Bitcoin and that's a high goal.
20:21
Again, it's very hard to get to $100,000, but the price is only
20:24
going to continue to run away from you.
20:26
And so I would be thinking to myself, what can I do to get
20:31
that first Bitcoin, that first $100,000.
20:33
And I'll tell you this, like people talk about their first
20:36
million a lot. Like, oh, when I made my first
20:39
million or whatever, from 100,000 to a million, you don't
20:42
really remember it. It doesn't.
20:43
It's not that meaningful. But your first $100,000, I
20:48
remember everything I did to earn that money.
20:52
I remember every fucking shitty job I took, every shitty person
20:56
who I had to fucking endure yelling at me or bossing me
20:59
around. I remember, you know, literally
21:01
like sleeping in, you know, shitty places on the floor.
21:06
Like I remember all of it, right?
21:07
I remember scratching and saving for each $1000.
21:11
I remember going up to Reno for the weekend to make $700.00,
21:17
right? I just, I remembered it all.
21:18
It's like it was meaningful to me.
21:20
And so that first 100K, that first Bitcoin, tough, hard,
21:25
really hard. You got to scratch for it, you
21:26
got to claw for it. But it is doable.
21:28
You can make it. And I think that would be my
21:31
goal if I was if I was new. Yo, I want to tell you about the
21:34
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22:12
And I think that's a, that, that's a, it's an ambitious
22:15
goal, but it's a goal that I, I truly believe this 'cause you
22:19
know, and again, one of the, I love, I love your post auto
22:24
because you, you're so open about the struggles that you
22:29
went through in order to get to that point.
22:32
And the reason that I think resonates with me and resonates
22:35
with so many people is because most of humanity is if you're
22:41
trying to make it like, if you're trying to succeed in
22:44
life, whether it's building a business or building whatever,
22:48
you're going to go through heartbreak, betrayal, let downs,
22:52
victories, defeats. Like it is a, it is, it is
22:56
brutal. And what I love, what I love
23:00
about your postman is that you're very open about that
23:03
struggle. And I think that resonates with
23:06
a lot of people because I would say most people are not open
23:10
about the struggle. They, they, they, they kind of,
23:12
they kind of hide behind it in a way now.
23:16
And I think what you were saying earlier is, is, is so spot on in
23:21
terms of trying to reach that one Bitcoin goal, but also with
23:26
the caveat of like what you're going to have to get, what
23:30
you're going to have to go through in order to achieve that
23:33
goal is going to be hell on earth.
23:38
However, once you achieve it or get close to achieving it, let's
23:43
say you can't manage to get a Bitcoin, but you managed to get
23:46
half or .75 in five or ten years.
23:51
All the floors you had to mop, all the things that you went
23:54
through, all the BS, all the heartaches, all the very dark
23:58
moments that you went through, it will all come to the front of
24:04
your mind and you'll realize that all of that was worth it
24:08
and it made you the person that you are today.
24:12
And again, huddle the that message.
24:16
I I don't think anyone else has been able to convey it and
24:21
humanize it as much as you have. Dude, it's, it's so true.
24:26
And honestly I just, I know it because I live it.
24:30
It's not like I have some, some wisdom that comes to me from on
24:33
high. I just live this shit.
24:34
And then I'm honest about what's going on.
24:38
I think I've said this thing before, which is that all of the
24:41
pain and the struggle and the sacrifice, one day, if you do
24:47
the right things, one day it just becomes a funny story you
24:51
tell at fancy parties. You know, it's like me and Nico
24:55
can laugh about it. We're like at Sailor's Mansion,
24:57
you know, like, and somebody's serving me champagne on a silver
25:00
tray. It's weird, but it happens, man.
25:03
And I think the place that a lot of people are in is that first
25:08
step. You know, that there's a quote I
25:12
love by a custom auto who was Mike Tyson's trainer when he was
25:17
very young. And he basically said the the
25:21
hero and the coward feel the same fear.
25:25
And it's what they how they respond to it that defines them,
25:28
right? So like feeling the fear,
25:31
feeling negatively, feeling pain, feeling the struggle.
25:36
The reason I'm open about them is because they don't define
25:38
you. They don't make you into a
25:40
coward. They don't make you into the
25:41
person that feels the fear. In fact, the person that feels
25:44
No Fear and does the thing that requires fear, it's not as
25:49
impressive as the person who feels a lot of fear and pushes
25:52
themselves to have the courage to do the thing that requires,
25:56
you know, that you endure that fear.
25:58
And so, yeah, I mean, you're going to on the huddling
26:03
journey. I've been doing it 10 years now
26:05
and I'm all in. So I experienced, you know, the
26:08
full breadth and width of it. You're going to experience every
26:12
different type of emotion. And you're going to feel more,
26:17
more euphoric than you've ever felt.
26:18
You're going to feel more depressed than you've ever felt.
26:21
You're going to cry, you're going to puke, You're going to
26:23
be sad. You're going to scream at
26:25
people. You're going to be angry.
26:26
You're going to rage. Like all the emotions, like life
26:30
goes from dull Gray, monotone, meaningless to full color, and
26:37
you just have all the emotions of life again and again.
26:42
It's what you do that defines you, right?
26:44
So like a Hodler is simply somebody who hoddles Bitcoin.
26:49
That's it. You don't have to be a Zen
26:51
Buddhist monk about it. You don't have to have a perfect
26:53
emotional state. You don't even have to be that
26:55
good at hodling honestly. Like you can make some mistakes.
26:58
You can sell a little bit of Bitcoin, you can fuck up, you
27:00
can trade a little bit, you can do stupid shit.
27:02
And as long as you're still hodling that core position for a
27:05
long period of time, no matter what emotions you went through
27:09
with the storm of the turmoil was like, you are a hodler, my
27:12
friend. You did it.
27:13
And I think the thing that most people, normal people are, are
27:18
scared of is that first step, the fear, you know, like what,
27:23
what are people going to say about me?
27:24
What are they going to think about me?
27:25
It's going to be embarrassing. What if I fail?
27:27
You know, everyone's going to laugh at me.
27:29
Like everyone's going to say you're, you're stupid.
27:31
You shouldn't have done that. What if I actually believe in
27:34
this thing and it hurts me or it harms me or I, I lose time, I
27:38
lose money, I lose status. Those are the things that keep
27:41
people from taking the first step.
27:42
And in order to actually like make something yourself in this
27:46
life and, and do something meaningful, like you have to be
27:49
willing to, to risk embarrassment and ridicule.
27:52
I actually prefer when people are mocking me.
27:55
I've gotten used to it at this point.
27:57
So like I feel like I still have my edge then.
27:59
And when people are congratulating me and being
28:02
like, Oh, you're such a big success.
28:03
I, it makes me deeply uncomfortable, But in the
28:06
beginning I was scared of, just like everyone else, I was very
28:09
scared of mockery and embarrassment and failure.
28:12
And I felt like if I failed, I was worthless as a person and
28:15
people wouldn't love me and I wouldn't have status and I
28:17
wouldn't be secure or safe. And those things are going to
28:20
come up for you and you have to just, you know, most of your
28:24
life is on autopilot. You're just going through life.
28:26
You're not thinking about things that much, right?
28:28
Like you're always asking people, like people ask people
28:30
like, why didn't you invest in Bitcoin or whatever?
28:33
And they go, I didn't like it because it's this or that.
28:35
The truth is like, they have no idea.
28:36
They're just on, they're asleep. They're on autopilot.
28:38
Like they don't, they don't know why they don't like Bitcoin or
28:41
why they didn't invest in Bitcoin or why whatever.
28:43
They just are asleep. And there are these moments in
28:46
life that jostle you awake, all right?
28:48
Like maybe one of them is listening to this douchebag on
28:50
this podcast today. All right?
28:52
And like, you can go, wait, what the.
28:54
But most of life is like you're driving down a highway and
28:57
you're in that highway hypnosis state.
28:58
And only every once in a while do you hit the bumps on the road
29:01
and go, oh shit, I'm driving a car this whole time.
29:04
And then you go, wait, where am I heading?
29:05
Where am I going? Where did this road lead?
29:07
Why don't I just pull off at this intersection and see what
29:09
happens, right? And the road is made of dirt and
29:11
it's not paved and it leads to nowhere and there's no signage.
29:14
Where am I going? That's scary, but every once in
29:17
a while people wake up and they do take that road, they do take
29:19
that path, they do change their life.
29:21
And you can be one of those people.
29:23
But when this moment comes to you, you can't let it slip by.
29:27
There's only so many of these moments in life where you
29:29
suddenly wake up and you go, oh shit, reality is malleable.
29:33
I can push on it, I can pull on it, I can change it.
29:35
I can make a dent in the universe.
29:36
This experience is temporary and you only have a finite amount of
29:40
time to get the after it, to be relentless, to change things, to
29:45
make meaningful progress, right, to leave your dent in the
29:50
universe. There's only so much time to do
29:52
that, man, especially if you're like halfway through your life,
29:55
your middle age, it's gone half, more than half of your life is
30:00
gone. And your perceptual life,
30:02
because time goes slower when we're younger, it's more than
30:04
half over. It's like 75% of the way over
30:07
because time is speeding up as you go because of relativity.
30:10
So like the time to do it is right now, if they get off your
30:15
ass and do the thing that you're most afraid of, and if you can
30:19
do that and you can endure it, which I promise you you can, you
30:24
can have a good life. American Hoddle, man, absolute
30:30
freaking legend, bro. I can't believe you're here.
30:34
Anyways, dude, OK, so that was beautiful.
30:39
That was like an Oster post but in real life.
30:41
Over over over a podcast. OK, so you're saying some things
30:46
earlier on, which is if you're enduring this, you, you go
30:50
through this, you know, you, you, you pay your dues, right?
30:53
This is cycle #3 for me. And you get to a certain point
31:00
where you know you, you look at your stack and you're
31:04
comfortable and you could do things.
31:08
You posted about this the other day.
31:10
At what point do you start living?
31:14
At what point do you, you've been living below your means,
31:18
you've been stacking, you've been disciplined.
31:22
At what point do you get the house?
31:25
At what point do you take that vacation?
31:27
At what point do you, you know, take your family to Disneyland
31:32
or, you know, spoil your wife on something?
31:34
At what point I have good advice for this, which is number one
31:39
during the bull market this time around, you're going to be, if
31:42
you're huddling and you've been huddling, you're going to be
31:44
richer than you've ever been before most likely, right?
31:48
And you're going to be tempted to do stuff.
31:50
You're going to be, you know, sometimes I just often my
31:53
fingers drift on the keyboard and I find myself on the Porsche
31:56
9/11 Configurator website and I build out the most baller
31:59
Porsche 9/11 1 can possibly build out.
32:01
And I don't buy it, but I like to build it a lot.
32:05
I've probably built this thing like 30 times over and over
32:07
again, right. And so you're going to find
32:09
yourself you like, you'll know where in the in the in the peak
32:13
of the bull market when you find yourself on Zillow looking at
32:17
private islands and you're like, this one doesn't even have a
32:20
runway. Where am I going to land the
32:23
jet? Dumb.
32:28
So I think when you start feeling that way, you should, I
32:31
think you should Halloween is a long, hard journey.
32:33
So you should treat yourself a little bit.
32:34
And what I would do is I would just rent experiences.
32:39
So if you want to fucking baller car, dude, go on turbo or
32:42
something and rent one for the day of the week, whatever.
32:45
Like go see what it is to drive like a really sick car.
32:48
I I, I did this last time around when I was when we were in the
32:52
Bull run, I was getting the itch to buy a Porsche 911.
32:55
And so I went and I rented 1 and I rented a Lambo and I rented a,
32:59
you know, whatever, a Ferrari and an Audi R8 and a Corvette, a
33:03
bunch of stuff. And you know, every day for like
33:06
a week or two I drove a different supercar and my
33:08
neighbors were probably like what The Who is this guy?
33:12
But, you know, in total, I think I spent probably like 6 grand or
33:16
something doing that and it got out of my system, right.
33:20
And by the end of it, I realized, you know what, super
33:22
cars are kind of annoying. Like I'm kind of a tall guy.
33:24
I don't fit in them that good. They're kind of cramped.
33:27
There's all this annoying shit you got to be worried about
33:29
where you park them and blah, blah, blah.
33:31
So like the reality wasn't as good as, you know, what I was,
33:34
what I was thinking about. So that's one thing is you
33:36
should rent the, the fancy bougie experiences.
33:39
Yeah, yeah. Take your, take your girl out
33:42
to, you know, the $1000 dinner. See what that is?
33:45
See what it's like to eat $1000 dinner and be served wine.
33:48
And the guy gives you the core and you pretend to smell it like
33:51
you know what the that means Do that, right?
33:54
Or like fly first class. If you've never flown first
33:55
class, rent the experience, right?
33:59
I think that's totally a valid and good use of capital,
34:01
especially if it gets out of your system.
34:03
The other thing, the bigger picture stuff here is what's
34:07
important in life, right? And after having a little bit of
34:10
money and a little bit of security and financial
34:12
independence for a while, I can tell you that like the most
34:15
important shit in life is just, it's just other people.
34:17
It's just like time with your family.
34:20
It's going to, you know, the bar with your friends and having a
34:23
couple drinks and, or going out to a nice meal with people that
34:27
you like and people you can talk to.
34:29
And those things are not that expensive, right?
34:31
So those are the things I would prioritize much more over a
34:34
Mercedes or a Rolex or something that is to impress strangers.
34:38
That shit is meaningless. Those are like old baby boomer
34:41
status symbols. You don't need them.
34:42
If you can easily afford them, sure, fine.
34:44
I'm not shaming anybody for having them.
34:46
Like I have some of that shit too and it's fun, but you don't
34:48
need it. Like don't prioritize it.
34:51
The thing that you should prioritize is your time buying
34:55
your time back from, you know, basically debt slavery.
34:59
So the the first second, you can do that comfortably into the
35:02
future, you should do that. Buy your time back.
35:04
Your time is so scarce. It's so valuable and you know,
35:08
it's it's, it's, it's dissipating everyday, right?
35:11
Time with your family, time with your children, time with on the
35:14
things that are meaningful to you.
35:15
What are your passions? What are you doing?
35:18
The minute you can buy that back, buy that back.
35:20
That's my, that's my biggest piece of advice.
35:22
And the other stuff, the status symbols and whatever, don't even
35:26
worry about it. It doesn't matter.
35:28
You know, if you get rich enough one day to afford all of them,
35:30
cool, it's great. But like I can tell you like a
35:34
Toyota Camry is like a great car.
35:36
It's like totally fine, you know?
35:38
It gets you from point A to point B, and I think that's
35:42
that's great advice. Yeah.
35:44
I mean, we have a saying in Miami, right?
35:47
I can't, I don't know if it's appropriate to say it, but
35:50
basically, if you can fly it, if you can drive it, and if you can
35:56
fill in the blank, lease it or rent it.
35:59
So, yeah, anyways, dude, so Trump, Trump got elected.
36:07
You know, I think, I think, I think it was, it was, it was a
36:11
positive for the industry. But right before he was about to
36:15
be inaugurated, I think the Friday, that Friday, he launches
36:20
the Trump coin, the meme coin. And I think a lot of people in
36:25
the community were disappointed. And I would say I think two
36:29
things could be true at the same time, right?
36:32
Which is it's undeniable that the Trump administration has
36:35
been, is positive and has been positive for our industry.
36:40
But it is a shit coin at the end of the day.
36:43
And I think it was positive too that he freed Ross, right?
36:46
I think a lot of Bitcoiners are having a having trouble like
36:51
essentially like juggling the two like they, they, they can't
36:56
see that two things could be true at the same time.
36:59
So I want to get your opinion on that Trump coming in the Trump
37:03
administration, Ross being freed and, of course, Trump coin.
37:08
So, yeah, I mean, Trump coin, what a scam, what a what a
37:15
graft. Like what a shit coin.
37:16
Like all those things completely true like that coin and then the
37:21
people that are promoting it, which is Trump.
37:25
So number one, Number two, so far, I like what Trump is doing.
37:30
I think he's doing a great job and I think, you know, both
37:33
things can be true. I, I like the job he's doing as
37:36
a president. I think he's just a million
37:39
times better than the old regime, the outgoing regime.
37:44
I think we actually have a lot of hope for, you know, sort of a
37:47
golden age during Trump's run. And if the if JD Vance or
37:51
whomever can can win after that and we can continue the
37:55
restoration project of America. I think that's extremely
37:58
hopeful. And, you know, Americans
38:00
basically stood up in one voice and declared like, you know, the
38:04
media was trying to brainwash them and sigh up them, etcetera,
38:06
tell them they're horrible, evil racists.
38:08
And, you know, everybody in the country was like, no, we're
38:11
MAGA, we're all MAGA. Like this is this is MAGA
38:15
country, bro. We're giving Trump a mandate to
38:17
do what he wants because we like Trump and we like, you know, the
38:20
things he's talking about. And by the way, like nobody,
38:25
It's the greatest political comeback in in modern political
38:28
history. I've never seen anything quite
38:30
like it. And, you know, I think a lot of
38:32
us started the play, you know, eight years ago.
38:35
It was nine years ago we were like this fucking Trump guy.
38:38
Jesus Christ is so annoying. And you know, he's such a con
38:41
man and like, and some of that is still true.
38:43
Like he still kind of acts like a used car salesman with this
38:46
stuff, like the shit coin or whatever.
38:47
But over the years, I think I've been inspired by his tenacity
38:52
and grit. And when he stood up at after
38:55
getting shot in the face, scream, fight, fight, fight,
38:58
everybody in the country was like, yeah, who are who are we
39:01
as Americans? What is our national identity?
39:04
Well, we're strong and we fight. And we if you, if you tell us
39:08
we're not allowed to do XYZ thing, our response to you is
39:12
fuck you. Like that's, that's our
39:14
response. Like if we're not harming
39:15
anybody, we should be allowed to do what we want.
39:18
And that is the thing that unites Americans, right?
39:20
And we're from all, we're from all religious cultures and
39:23
backgrounds and ethnicities and you know, etcetera.
39:26
But the number one thing that unites us is if we're not
39:29
harming anybody, we can do what the we want and we should be
39:33
allowed to do what we want. So I think there's a lot more
39:36
freedom and permission during the Trump reign.
39:39
Things are getting fixed. That's great.
39:42
I think the stuff like the SBR is is coming.
39:45
So some of the campaign promises, like Ross, you know,
39:47
he made good on his campaign promise.
39:49
There were a lot of people on Twitter being like, he's not
39:52
going to do it. He backstabbed us already,
39:54
right? And then like, you know, Ross
39:55
got a full pardon and full unconditional pardon, like,
39:58
which is way better than clemency.
39:59
So like, I think it was worth the extra 6 hours to wait, you
40:03
know? I think Ross is happy with the
40:05
outcome, you know? So, yeah, I mean, all those
40:08
things are true at once. It's like I I don't think you
40:10
can be a child about any of this.
40:12
You have to be nuanced and say, what is the Trump administration
40:15
giving US versus what the old regime was giving us, which was
40:18
Operation Choke .2 point OA direct attack on our, our
40:22
freedoms and, and liberties as a Bitcoiners and as Americans, a
40:27
horrible, awful censorship regime.
40:30
And you know what is Trump going to give us?
40:31
I think Trump's going to give us more freedom, more permission,
40:35
etcetera. But we do have to be on guard
40:36
for things like a Patriot Act 2 point O It's not a panacea.
40:40
I'm not bending the knee to Trump.
40:43
Trump works for me. He works for you.
40:45
He works for us. I don't have to.
40:48
I don't put any politician above me.
40:50
These people are servants. They are civil servants.
40:53
It's important we never forget that they work for us.
40:56
We don't work for them, doesn't matter who they are, but
41:01
bullish, bullish on America. Yeah, I feel the same way.
41:05
Bullish on America went through a very dark phase and like I I'm
41:09
so like hot. I'm originally from the first
41:12
generation, so I'm originally from Venezuela and I saw the
41:16
country being one of the wealthiest countries in South
41:18
America to potentially, you know, being one of the poorest
41:23
failed state because of collectivism.
41:25
And I and I saw it happening in slow motion.
41:28
A lot of people were not wait, we're not awakened to that
41:32
reality. And it was quite scary.
41:34
And, and again, we got this. It's not a perfect happy ending,
41:38
but it was incredible what happened.
41:39
You know, it's what you said, like he, he, the, the legal
41:43
cases against him, the, you know, the, the, the
41:46
assassination attempt, the, you know, the, the, his first term
41:51
was, you can say it was, it was the whole Russia gate hoax.
41:55
Like it was, it was like ridiculous, like how much they
41:58
tried to, to stop him. So I agree.
42:00
I, I, I feel hope, you know, and, and I don't think people
42:04
quite realize how close we were to going in a very, very
42:09
different direction as a country.
42:12
I think I tweeted this out the other day.
42:14
And since you're the master of of of X and Noster, I want I
42:20
want you to review it. But I basically said something
42:23
along the lines of where is it here?
42:26
If Trump hadn't had one, he would have been sent to jail for
42:30
life. They would have kept attacking
42:32
our industry, shut down X and Ross would still be in prison.
42:35
Do you understand yet? Yeah, I think that's true.
42:39
So yeah, man. So dude, what are you the most
42:44
excited about for the next 5 to 10 years?
42:49
Bitcoins obviously grown up. It's not what it was, you know,
42:53
in, in the early days, it's gone into the kind of mainstream
42:57
consciousness, mainstream traditional finance.
43:01
Now it's they're talking about a strategic Bitcoin reserve.
43:05
What do you anticipate the next for for the next 5-10 years?
43:09
What are you the most excited about?
43:11
Man, good question. I think I'm the most excited
43:16
about having all the cool people be rich.
43:22
I'm excited about, you know, people who are liberty minded,
43:28
tech forward, strong cultural values, which all make up, you
43:37
know, like the Bitcoin maximalist community.
43:39
I'm excited about having those people have money and seeing
43:43
what projects they fund and presiding as, you know, sort of
43:47
the capital allocators of the restoration, the American
43:51
restoration project. So I think that America is
43:55
moving into this sort of this golden age, which probably will
44:00
look something more, much more like the early 1800s or the
44:05
late, sorry, the late 1800s. Then it will look like anything
44:09
we saw in the 20th century. And I think that it's going to
44:13
produce outsized wealth in a way that is destabilizing to some
44:19
people's world views. But that I'd rather have the
44:22
wealth in the hands of, you know, capital allocators who
44:27
have a strong cultural folk, you know, because most Bitcoiners
44:32
are cultural warriors, right? So like, I'd rather have it in
44:35
the hands of people who have a strong technological and
44:37
cultural focus because I think, you know, reinvigorating
44:41
American culture is, is going to be key to, you know, our our
44:46
continued success and to things like the colonization of space
44:53
and human beings becoming a Kurdish of type 1 civilization.
44:57
So those things are all extremely exciting to me and I I
45:01
obviously want the money in the hands of private industry and
45:03
not in the hands of the government.
45:04
There will be a big fight about that between the government and
45:08
the hodlers. New rules will be set.
45:12
Elite, you know, decorum is all about rulemaking.
45:15
Who can be within the elite circle and who has the ability
45:18
to make rules. The Bitcoiners are coming to it
45:21
from the framework of we would like a fair balanced rule set
45:25
for all enforced by machines, codified, you know, in code.
45:30
And the current Fiat elites are coming to it in the sense that
45:34
like we would like to decree things from on high.
45:37
And I think that that is a battle that they're going to
45:41
lose, but it's going to be not fun while we're fighting it out.
45:47
So I think the battle between the new elites and the old
45:49
elites happen. You see capital allocation of
45:51
Bitcoiners that starts to make meaningful impact in your
45:54
society. Bitcoin price goes sky high.
45:57
More nation states adopt Bitcoin.
45:59
Bitcoin becomes sort of a pseudo reserve asset of the world.
46:03
It's not quite acting as the reserve asset yet, but it will
46:06
soon. Yeah, all of those things will
46:09
occur. And, and, and fascinating, one
46:12
of the things that that really stuck out to me huddle, which
46:15
was I don't think people have, I mean, Bitcoiners of course know
46:21
this, but I don't think people have fully understood the
46:26
implications of what happens when a percentage of society
46:31
starts to opt out of the local sovereign currency and starts
46:36
opting into Bitcoin and what that will do for kind of the
46:41
political dynamics of society. Because I think the way that
46:45
society is currently structured is like the idea of wealth
46:50
redistribution on a mass scale. And when I say wealth
46:54
redistribution, I don't only mean wealth redistribution via
46:57
taxation, but I also mean wealth redistribution via inflation.
47:02
And then it's all with the, you know, the justification is to
47:06
reach equality, equality this, equality that.
47:08
But to reach equality, you essentially need to take wealth
47:13
from one group of people to give it to other group of people.
47:16
And I think people have been conditioned to live in that
47:19
society for a very, very long time.
47:23
And now here comes the technology that I don't want to
47:27
get into the discussion of the income tax.
47:28
Maybe we can, but it takes away the ability to do that for
47:33
governments because it takes away their ability to tax via
47:36
monetary debasement. And I think it's going to rub
47:39
people a very wrong way when they they come to government,
47:44
which a lot of people in society see as this omnipresent God like
47:49
institution or figure. And all of a sudden government
47:52
can't do those things. It's actually private
47:55
individuals that could do those things.
47:57
Actually, the power is in the hands of the entrepreneurs, the
48:01
powers in the individual in, in the, in the hands of, of, of
48:06
wealthy Bitcoin owners. It's not so much in the hands of
48:11
of government and the traditional kind of voting
48:16
mechanism to see who gets control of the money printer is
48:20
not as effective anymore and people can't just vote for free
48:25
things like they used to. Is that what you were talking
48:29
about when you're saying you know how the the dynamics are
48:33
going to change and potentially some people are going to be let
48:35
down? Yeah, I think so.
48:38
There's a lot there to unpack. I think there's nothing that
48:43
Bitcoin does to prevent sovereigns from printing, but
48:47
Bitcoin Bitcoins existence acts as a check and balance on that
48:52
printing because if people don't want to be devalued, they don't
48:56
have to be devalued anymore. So different regimes are going
49:01
to tackle this in different ways.
49:04
And I think that the worst way you could possibly go about it
49:10
would be to impose strict, strict capital controls because
49:14
a law is only as good as your ability to enforce that law.
49:17
And it's going to be really goddamn hard for you to prevent
49:20
people from keeping words in their head, OK?
49:24
So that's probably not something that you have the ability to do.
49:28
So your enforcement of that action will be minimal,
49:31
minimally effective at best. The best thing that could happen
49:36
is that you essentially respect encryption powered individuals,
49:42
sovereign individuals, Bitcoiners and others who want
49:46
to take, you know, sovereignty over their own personal
49:50
financial life and property. And you negotiate with them in
49:55
order to, you know, come to some sort of agreement in which you
50:02
keep more wealth in your society, right?
50:04
So it's like sort of this broad collectivist negotiation.
50:07
And then also you got to rein in your spending.
50:10
So you can't say, hey, we are tyrants who steal, give us all
50:14
your money. That's just, that's like
50:17
something you could have done in the 20th century, but you can't
50:20
do it any longer. It just doesn't work anymore
50:22
because we have encryption powered individuals who can say,
50:25
no, where's your where's your coins?
50:28
I burned them, meaning you burn them.
50:31
They don't exist anymore. Sorry, like what are you going
50:35
to get out of me? I could, I can just delete the
50:37
money. There's nothing you can stop me
50:39
from doing that. Like it's a it's a situation
50:41
where it's like you have a gun pointed at my head, but I have
50:45
my hand on the grenade. So I'll blow us all up, right.
50:50
Metaphorically speaking, if you're trying any other time in
50:54
life, when you kill somebody, you can take their property.
50:58
Not true in Bitcoin. Like bitcoiners can self delete
51:01
the property. So that's an interesting new
51:03
wrinkle in enforcement. I think basically you have to,
51:07
you know, you have to respect the people that can do that.
51:10
And in politics too, it's because it, it completely
51:13
changes the dynamics of, of, of politics as well.
51:16
Because if, if you're, if individuals are basically like,
51:19
So what you said, you, it's like, hey, you know, keys are
51:22
gone forever. Like you can't have it.
51:24
Or you can memorize 12 words. You can cross a border, go to
51:27
where you're treated best. It it's a forcing function on
51:32
society, that's the way I see it. 100% I think that, yeah, I
51:40
think that's just, I think that's just true.
51:42
And I think that if you if you treat sovereign individuals the
51:46
way that the the democratic regime, the Biden Harris regime
51:50
treated them over the last four years, you're going to see
51:52
capital fleer shores and you're going to see yourself materially
51:58
impoverished as Bitcoin eats the, you know, sort of monetary
52:03
premium of the world. So like the people that hold the
52:05
monetary premium of the world are important people by to make
52:10
partnerships with. They're important people to you
52:12
don't have to like as a sovereign individual.
52:15
I'm not saying like the government needs to bend to my
52:17
will, right? Like I, I think I believe in
52:20
consensus within Bitcoin. I believe in consensus of the
52:23
governed, but I do also believe that we're not serfs.
52:28
And I need my voice heard loud and clear, right?
52:33
So it's like we need to have a respectful negotiation and
52:37
dialogue between US and the powers that be.
52:41
And some states are going to get this correct.
52:43
I'm hopeful on America, obviously.
52:45
And some states are going to get this really wrong, just really
52:49
wrong. Venezuela is probably not going
52:51
to do well, you know. Yeah, 100% and and but that's
52:56
the beauty of the states. It's the beauty of the way that
52:58
the US is structured, right? You know, New York and
53:01
California want to have fun staying poor.
53:03
People just moved to Texas and Florida, right.
53:05
So like there's that like competitive, there's like
53:08
competition between the States and and it kind of allows that.
53:12
And I have a question for you. If you were to Orange Pill 1
53:18
historical figure could be any person, any moment in time.
53:23
Maybe you have a favorite. I'm pretty sure you have a
53:26
favorite. Who would it be and why let?
53:30
Me think about this, I mean it wouldn't make sense to go back
53:32
in Orangeville like Genghis Khan.
53:35
He would be like, what am I going to do with fake money like
53:38
Internet what doesn't make sense?
53:42
You can you bring me horse meat and and sports like so you got
53:47
to pick somebody from the modern era.
53:48
I think he's like, I'm going to orange build Jesus and he's
53:52
going to be like, you got to do it this.
53:54
I could do it. So let's think who from the
53:59
modern era would be most interesting to orange Bill?
54:04
I would I would have liked to see what I would have really
54:08
liked to see what Steve Jobs had said about Bitcoin.
54:11
It's it's curious because he hated open source and Bitcoin is
54:17
the epitome of open source, but I I'd like to think he would
54:20
have understood it well. So I don't know, maybe there
54:25
could have been a really dope hardware wallet secure enclave
54:28
within the iPhone. Who knows, would have been
54:33
interesting. Maybe he went, he would go ham
54:35
on the treasury. He would be like he would have
54:37
done the first micro strategy maybe.
54:40
You think so? Or maybe he would have been our
54:41
enemy. You know, I don't know what
54:43
would have happened. Like I think there's a non
54:46
trivial chance he would have been a hardcore enemy of the
54:48
community because traditionally he didn't do well with open
54:53
source development. Oh man, no, it's true.
54:57
It's true. But yeah, I think I think that's
54:59
a that's an excellent just just because of it's someone in the
55:02
modern era, like a phenomenal entrepreneur, historical
55:06
entrepreneur, definitely change things.
55:09
And it would have been interesting to see how he would
55:13
have reacted to Bitcoin 100%. All right, man.
55:16
Well, we are getting to the top of the hour and I do want to be
55:19
respectful of your time. Let me ask you this final
55:22
question. What piece of advice would you
55:24
give to Hodlers going into 2025 with the caveat of Bitcoin
55:33
performing the way that we all think it's going to perform?
55:36
Using the meme that I used in the very beginning that you
55:38
created 3 green 1 red, what advice would you give to to
55:44
people? Yeah, good question.
55:48
I think the most important advice going into bull market
55:50
years is probably there's no time machine to being an OG, OK.
55:57
So what happens is I think I cribbed this from Francis
56:02
Pullyet who runs Bull Bitcoin. People get here and they finally
56:08
understand Bitcoin. They get orange peeled and they
56:10
say to themselves, fuck, I really should have been here 8
56:14
years ago and I should have 10 Bitcoin instead of one Bitcoin.
56:17
How do I get to 10? And then they go, I'm going to
56:21
take a hell of a bunch of leverage.
56:22
And they think that sort of leverages this like time
56:26
machine, you can travel back to it and become an OG and 99% of
56:31
the people that do that will end up with no Bitcoin.
56:34
So it's a lot better to have one Bitcoin than 0 Bitcoin.
56:39
And if you take a lot of leverage, you're playing with
56:41
fire. This, this warning is like self
56:44
selecting because the people that are going to take leverage
56:46
are going to do it anyway. But I, I would be really, really
56:50
hesitant, especially if it's your first cycle and you don't
56:52
know what you're doing of playing around with any, any
56:55
amount of leverage, any. So just be careful with that.
56:58
I think there are, you know, you could maybe do smart,
57:00
intelligent debt strategies that are, you know, uncorrelated from
57:05
Bitcoin. So the closer you get to Bitcoin
57:08
specific leverage, like you're taking leverage on an exchange,
57:11
that's probably the worst thing you could possibly do.
57:13
And then the the further away you go, like you're take, you're
57:16
doing like a reverse, you know, like a HELOC on your house or
57:19
something, or like a unsecured personal loan.
57:22
It's it's still not, you know, you're not like safe.
57:25
There's not no risk, but it's probably better than doing like,
57:30
you know, actual hardcore 100X leverage trading on, you know,
57:33
the Bitcoin exchanges. So yeah, be careful with just
57:38
don't get out over your skis. You want to go slow and steady.
57:42
And this is a turtle race, and at the end of the day, Bitcoin's
57:47
a war of attrition, so the people that are here for the
57:49
longest amount of time are going to win you.
57:52
Know beautiful, beautiful well Huddle, always an honor to have
57:55
you on the show. Man.
57:56
I appreciate you, appreciate what you do.
57:59
Huge fan of your work and thank you so much for coming on.
58:03
Thank you Sir. Thanks for having me buddy.
58:05
Keep crushing on the pod. Appreciate it.