Latest / The Epstein Chronicles / Mega Edition: Johanna Sjoberg's Deposition In The Maxwell/Virginia Roberts Suit (Part 4-6) (5/24/26)

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Mega Edition: Johanna Sjoberg's Deposition In The Maxwell/Virginia Roberts Suit (Part 4-6) (5/24/26) · The Epstein Chronicles

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
0:04
In this episode, we're gonna dive right back in to
0:06
the Johanna Schoberg deposition and pick up where we left
0:11
off with Laura Meninger taking over the questioning. So they
0:15
go back on the record at ten fourteen and things
0:18
kick back off. Menager, Hi answer from Shoburg. Hello, Menager,
0:24
we've never met before today. Correct answer correct, Menager. Can
0:28
you tell me a little bit about your current job?
0:31
Answer sure, I just purchased a salon. I'm a salon owner.
0:34
I'm a hairstylist manager. Congratulations, Shoberg, thank you, Menager. How
0:41
long have you been a hairstylist Shoburg for ten years, Menager?
0:45
And what did you do before that? Answer? I briefly
0:48
did massage in a spa for about a year and
0:50
a half, and before that, I was a nanny and
0:53
before that I was in school. Manager And I believe
0:57
you said you studied psychology in school and correct manager?
1:01
Did you graduate? Answer yes, manager with a degree in psychology.
1:06
Answer yes, manager. Where did you get training to be
1:09
a massage therapist? Answer redacted? Manager? And when did you
1:14
do that? Answer? That would have been I believe in redacted? Manager?
1:21
And how long did you study there? Answer? I think
1:24
it was a six month program? Manager? And you worked
1:27
in a spa thereafter? Answer I did, manager? And what
1:31
was the name of the spa? Again redacted? Manager? And
1:35
are you married? Answer no? Manager? Do you have children?
1:39
Answer no? Manager? And how old are you now? Answer
1:43
redacted manager? Can you tell me about your first meeting
1:47
with Glenn Maxwell? Answer sure, I was sitting on a
1:50
bench redacted or redacted. She approached me. I was getting
1:54
ready to go to a class. It was my junior year. Yes,
1:56
it was my second semester of my junior year. And
1:59
she and another woman approached me. The other woman didn't
2:02
speak that I recall, and she asked me about she
2:05
had a house in Palm Beach and she was looking
2:08
for someone that she could hire to work at the
2:10
house where she could post that she needed help. She
2:13
then asked me if I knew anyone, and I didn't
2:16
know who she was. I didn't want to take the
2:18
responsibility of finding someone to work for, and so I said, sorry,
2:22
I don't And then she said, well, maybe what about you?
2:26
And I was at a point in my life I
2:27
was super spontaneous and willing to skip school. So she said,
2:31
come to my house, come in my car and check
2:33
it out, and so I did. Meninger. Okay, So for
2:38
those of you of us who don't know, is this
2:41
like a college campus, like a traditional college campus or
2:46
is it in a city setting? Answer? It's in a
2:49
city setting. I mean, Palm Beach is not a big city.
2:51
So it's on the intra coastal and there was a
2:54
big grassy area that was surrounded by buildings. So she
2:57
was inside of the campus, Meninger, and she was looking
3:01
for a bulletin board where she could post a job.
3:03
Answer something like that, Yes, Menager, Did she have any
3:08
kind of flyers? Answer? Not that I recall, Menager, but
3:12
that's what she asked you for, directions to a bulletin
3:15
board where she could post a job. Answer yes, McCauley. Objection, Menager.
3:21
And it sounds like you guys got into a conversation.
3:24
Is that fair? Answer? Yes, Menager. Can you describe Glenn
3:29
Maxwell's personality? Answer? Well, I instantly picked up on the
3:33
fact that she was British. She had on like workout clothes.
3:37
I believe she was wearing all black, and she I mean,
3:40
she was a little snarky, but I felt comfortable enough
3:43
to get in the car with her. Menager. And it
3:46
sounds like you had contact with her over the next
3:48
several years, is that fair? Answer yes, Menager. And did
3:54
you get to know more about her personality over those
3:56
five years? Four or five years? Answer yes? And can
4:00
you describe for me how you observed her personality to
4:03
be Answer sure. She definitely had a great sense of humor.
4:07
She loved making jokes, I mean in a very British way.
4:10
I don't remember her ever laughing, but she was funny.
4:13
And I remember just thinking she the first weekend that
4:17
we flew to the Virgin Islands, she flew the helicopter
4:19
from Saint wherever we were, to Little Saint jeff or
4:23
whatever the name of the island was, and I just thought, Wow,
4:26
who is this woman? And that was all part of
4:29
the facade, folks. Having Maxwell be who she was was
4:33
just a gigantic part of what Epstein had going on.
4:36
And if she wasn't that kind of socialite, that kind
4:38
of woman that could get people comfortable, this operation would
4:42
have never worked as well as it did. Manager. Would
4:45
you say that you respected her? Answer yes, menager when
4:48
you ended up getting in the car with her and
4:50
this other woman and going back to the house. Who
4:53
was driving the car? Answer she was driving? Manager. And
4:57
where did she take you? Answer? She took me to
5:00
the house in Palm Beach. And can you describe the
5:03
house in Palm Beach? Answer sure. It's at the end
5:07
of L Brio Way on the intra Coastal. The house
5:10
was either white or pink. It was pink at one time.
5:13
It may have ever been painted. It was nothing fancy,
5:16
It was large. It was like a beach house. Manager.
5:20
And when you got there, do you remember meeting other
5:22
people while you were there that first time? Answer? I
5:26
remember other people being in the home. I don't really
5:28
remember who was there. Manager. Do you remember meeting like
5:33
a butler or answer potentially a chef, someone in the kitchen,
5:38
maybe a house manager. Yeah. Manager. What was your impression
5:42
of this other woman that was with miss Maxwell at
5:45
the time? Answer zero. She left zero impression on me, Menager. Age, height,
5:51
hair color, nothing, Answer I want to say she was brunette,
5:55
age twenties. Yeah. Manager. And you were going for the
5:58
purpose of checking out potentially working for this job? Answer yes, Menager,
6:04
and it sounds like you met Jeffrey Epstein that first
6:07
time that you did go to the house right. McAuley objection. Answer,
6:13
I believe I either met him that time or the
6:16
next time. I can't recall, Menager. Okay, and tell me
6:19
about your first meeting with him. Answer, sure, I met him.
6:23
I believe it was in the hallway right beside the kitchen.
6:26
There was a hallway. It was actually more like a room,
6:28
a pantry type of room. That's where all the pieces
6:31
of paper with the phone messages would lay. And there
6:34
she's talking about the notepads that we've talked about at
6:37
length here during the depositions. And I remember sitting on
6:41
the counter and speaking with him, and he was in
6:43
a bathrobe, and he spoke with me about being in
6:46
college and studying psychology. Manager And did you form an
6:50
opinion of him in that first meeting? Answer? I yeah,
6:54
I believe that he was smart, he was personable and
6:56
could speak to anyone. Menager. Did he give off any
7:00
sexual vibes in that first meeting? Answer no, Menager. And
7:04
where was Golaine when you were speaking with mister Epstein? Answer?
7:08
I don't recall, Menager. Do you recall going to a
7:12
second floor of the home during that first meeting. Answer
7:15
I don't recall. Golaine said at one point, you might
7:18
get a massage today. That was sorry. That was the
7:21
second time when I was in the home working, and
7:24
I just thought it was crazy that I would get
7:26
a massage while I was working. But it did not
7:28
end up happening because the messuse could not stay. Menager.
7:33
Do you know who the messus was who could not stay?
7:36
Answer no, Menager. But that didn't happen on the first meeting.
7:40
You believe that it was the second meeting? Answer yes,
7:43
that was when I was there to work, Menager. How
7:46
long How long did the first trip to the house end? Answer?
7:50
She gave me her phone number, and she took my
7:52
phone number, and she took me back to school Menager?
7:56
And you were full time at school at the time,
7:58
Answer yes, Menager. And how many classes were you taking
8:02
if you remember? Answer probably four or five? Menager. How
8:06
did you How long was it before you heard from
8:08
miss Maxwell again? Answer within probably three days? Manager? And
8:13
how did she contact you? Answer she called me on
8:16
my At the time, I had a cell phone. It
8:18
could have been on my cell phone. It could have
8:20
been on my house phone. We had a house phone
8:22
back then. Manager, I remember where were you living at
8:26
the time? Answer, I was in an apartment in West
8:29
Palm Beach. Manager, And did you have a roommate or
8:32
with family? Answer? I had a roommate. Manager. So when
8:36
Miss Maxwell called you on whatever phone it was, do
8:39
you remember what she said? Answer? Yeah? She said, do
8:42
you want to come over and work on Sunday? Manager?
8:45
And what did you say? Answer? I said sure? Manager?
8:49
And did you answer? I did? Manager? How did you
8:52
get there? Answer that I don't recall because I did
8:56
not have a car. Manager, did you to this? Schoberg interrupts,
9:01
I think my roommate dropped me off. Honestly, I can
9:04
remember what I was wearing. You do, Menager? Ass I do?
9:08
She answers, Menager, what were you wearing? Answer? I had?
9:13
I still have the shirt. It's an old, weathered blue
9:15
North Carolina Tech Tar Hill shirt. Menager. Because you did
9:20
Miss Maxwell explain to you what you would be doing
9:23
on that Sunday when you came to work or was
9:25
that part of the prior conversation. McAuley objection, show Burg
9:30
about what I was wearing? Menager, know about what you
9:33
were going to do at work. Answer. She explained that
9:36
she just wanted someone to help out around the house,
9:39
answering phones, you know, grabbing drinks if someone wanted a drink,
9:42
running errands, manager, and so you dressed appropriate to what
9:46
you believed. She interrupts her here, meaning shoburg, I did
9:50
not know how to dress properly. Apparently I should not
9:53
have worn that. But I was in college, Menainger. Did
9:56
anyone say anything to you? Answer no, Menager. So when
10:01
you got there, what happened? This is your second time
10:03
to the house, but your first time working? Right? Answer yes,
10:07
I was probably introduced to a few people that were there.
10:10
I mean I was there for several hours. Do I
10:13
recall every minute? No, I just recall when I would
10:16
actually have to go to work, answer the phone, pour
10:18
some drinks for people, just water, they didn't drink alcohol,
10:22
and run errands. There are a few errands that I run. Menager.
10:26
You described those errands earlier. Answer I did in her car? Menager?
10:31
You used her car? Answer yes, Menager. What kind of
10:35
car was it? Answer? It was a Mercedes convertible. Menager.
10:39
Did anyone go with you? Answer no, Menager. You described
10:43
a shopping trip. Was that in the same car. Answer yes, Menager.
10:48
Was that a separate trip from when you went to
10:50
run errands? Answer yes, that's when Golayne went with me
10:54
and she drove Menager. Okay, so you ran errands, came
10:58
back more than once, answer twice, and then you went
11:02
on a shopping trip. Answer yes, Manager. During the time
11:05
you were at the home, was there anything that made
11:07
you suspicious? Answer no, Manager or Leary? Answer no Manager.
11:14
You mentioned that there may have been some discussion of
11:16
a massage. Do you recall that discussion? Answer? I had
11:20
never had a massage before, so she just said there
11:22
was a massage therapist coming and I may get one. Manager.
11:26
Did she say who it was? Answer no, Menager. So
11:29
when you went shopping on this trip, you said, Glaine
11:32
drove the car and you went with her. Was anyone
11:34
else there? Answer no manager. And where did you all go?
11:40
Answer we went to Worth Avenue in Palm Beach, but
11:43
because it was Sunday, the stores were closed, so from
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there we went to I believe it was Palm Beach
11:49
Daily News, which was like a little bookstore, and I
11:52
remember her purchasing reading glasses for Jeffrey and some magazines. Manager.
11:57
Were those things for the home. Answer yes, Menager. And
12:01
earlier on your errands you had been purchasing things for
12:05
the home or the office. Yes and yes, Menager. Besides
12:09
the printer cartridge in cartridge, do you remember anything else?
12:13
Answer well, yes, like they wanted specific magazines. I don't
12:17
know if it was like Scientific American or something to
12:20
that effect. It wasn't like Playboy. Menager. Okay, did you
12:24
ever answer phones? Answer yes, Menager. When did you answer phones?
12:30
Answer that day? Menager. Do you remember anything notable about
12:33
the phone calls? Answer? I just remember I always had
12:36
to say he's unavailable. Can I take a message? Manager?
12:41
And where did you take a message? Answer on a
12:44
little notepad next to the phone? Menager. Do you recall
12:47
any small children calling the house that day? Answer no, Menager.
12:52
Were you speaking to anyone about their school experience or
12:55
anything like that? Answer no, Menager. Did you take any
12:59
messages for famous people? Answer they could have been famous
13:03
and I would have been clueless. Manager. Did you take
13:06
messages at any other point during the time that you
13:09
worked for Jeffrey? Answer no, Menager. And you said you
13:13
remember at the end of the day being paid by Glaine?
13:16
Answer yes, Menager. And you were paid for doing errands
13:20
and answering phones and whatever else you did. Answer yes, McCauley. Objection, Menager,
13:26
did you do anything else that day in terms of
13:29
errands or things around the house that you remember? Answer
13:33
not that I recall. Menager, did you come back to
13:37
answer phones and do errands any other day? Answer no, Menager,
13:41
that was the only day you did it. Answer yes.
13:45
All right, folks, We're going to wrap up right there,
13:46
and in the next episode we're going to pick up
13:48
where we left off. All of the information that goes
13:51
with this episode can be found in the description box.
13:55
What's up everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein chronicles
13:59
in this episod. So we're picking up where we left
14:01
off with a Johanna Schoberg deposition. So let's dive right
14:07
back in. Manager, all right, tell me the second time.
14:12
How long was it before you got another sort of
14:15
contact from anybody at the home? Answer? Okay, well after that.
14:20
I remember, actually that day of working I sat with
14:22
Glene outside on this outside table on the patio by
14:26
the pool. I told her that I was getting ready
14:29
to go to Nicaragua for spring break on a mission trip.
14:32
I remember her going why would you ever go to Nicaragua.
14:36
So I was going to be gone for the next
14:37
week for spring break. So she called after I returned
14:41
and asked if I wanted to make one hundred dollars
14:43
an hour rubbing feet? Manager, was that the whole conversation? Answer?
14:49
That was pretty much it. I said, okay, sure, tell
14:52
me when manager, and you were excited about the prospect
14:56
of rubbing feet and making one hundred bucks. Answer I
15:01
was actually with while I was on the trip in Nicaragua.
15:04
I was rubbing feet. I was massaging people their feet.
15:07
So it just seemed kind of crazy that it all
15:09
happened at the same time. Manager, How was it rubbing feet? Answer?
15:15
I guess I just like doing it. I didn't know
15:17
that I did, but I was massaging people's feet. Manager.
15:21
Were these strangers? Answer? No, no, no, no no. It
15:24
was a group of us that went on the trip,
15:26
so we were all very close. Manager. What kind of
15:30
trip was it? Answer? It was a Well, PBA. You
15:34
had to do these things called workship hours, which you
15:37
had to do community service forty hours each year, and
15:40
so that was the way to do them all, and
15:43
you would go on these trips and help build a school,
15:46
or feed children, or do some sort of something nice.
15:50
Manager Nice. What other trips did you take while you
15:52
were there? Answer? I did a trip and work with
15:55
Habitat for Humanity in Baltimore, and then I went back
15:59
to Nikoro the next year and did the same thing. Manager.
16:04
Very nice. And you were there for a whole week?
16:07
Answer yes, Manager. All right, so you got a call
16:11
from Glaine after you returned? Answer yes, manager, and that's
16:16
when she asked you about feet. Answer yes, Manager. And
16:19
did she tell you when she would like you to
16:22
come over? Answer it was either that night or the
16:25
next day. Manager. And do you know how you got there?
16:29
Answer no, Manager. Do you know what you were wearing?
16:34
Answer no, I don't remember, Manager, when you got there?
16:37
I think you said you don't remember if Golane was
16:40
actually there the second time? Answer I want to believe
16:45
that she was there because she was my main contact,
16:48
and so I would assume that she was probably at
16:50
the home and greeted me. However, I do not recall
16:53
if she was there. Manager. It sounds like you met
16:57
Emmy Taylor. Answer yes, Manager, how did you meet Emmy Taylor? Answer?
17:02
She was at the house the first day that I
17:04
worked running errands, and I realized she was also a
17:07
personal assistant type of person. Manager. Do you know who
17:11
she worked for? Answer? She well, Golaane. It appeared to
17:15
me that she worked for Golaine. Glaine sort of told
17:17
her what to do and where to go. Manager, And
17:21
I believe you mentioned she called her her slave. Answer
17:25
she did. It was in a joking way, but she said, yes,
17:27
that's my slave. Manager. You did not see her in
17:31
any type of slavery situation. Answer, not any change or
17:35
anything of the sort. No, Manager, So tell me what
17:39
you remember about the second time you went Answer the
17:42
third time. Ms McAuley. Objection, Manager, I'm sorry, you're right,
17:47
third time the second time you went to work, but
17:50
the third time you were there? Answer correct. So I
17:53
was escorted up to the bathroom, which is where ninety
17:56
nine percent of the massages happened, and Emmy Taylor was
17:59
there with me and Jeffrey. I don't remember the order,
18:03
but Emmy was on the table. At one point she
18:05
took off all of her clothes got on the table.
18:08
I remember thinking, Okay, she's just going to strip naked
18:11
and get on the table. Well, that's cool, We're cool.
18:14
That's what we do, and Jeffrey was showing me had
18:17
a massage on her body, and when I took my
18:19
clothes off and got on the table, and they then
18:22
showed me what it felt like with the both of them,
18:25
and then Jeffrey got on the table and Emmy showed
18:27
me how to massage. Manager, so Glaine was not in
18:30
the room? Answer no, Managers, you said that ninety nine
18:35
percent of the massages took place in the bathroom. Did
18:38
you see massages take place in other places of the
18:41
house at all? Answer did I see any? No, besides
18:45
us maybe hanging out on the couch and someone massaging
18:48
his foot or me massaging his foot, but not like
18:51
on a table. Manager, So just casual foot rubbing might
18:55
happen elsewhere in the home, but not a full blown
18:58
full body massage. McCauley objection. The witness answer is yes, manager,
19:04
Did you see any full blown full body massages out
19:07
by the pool? Answer not that I recall, manager. And
19:12
do you remember ever giving any yourself answer by the
19:15
pool manager out by the pool? Yes answer on a
19:19
table manager. Yes, you said that you had subsequently been
19:23
trained as a massage therapist. Correct answer correct, Manager. Would
19:28
you describe it as a normal massage protocol for a
19:31
person to be naked under a towel during a massage,
19:34
a regular massage. Mccauleay objection, the witness naked under a
19:40
towel during a massage the person getting massaged, menager, Yes,
19:45
answer yeah, Manager, And as a massage therapist, you're trained
19:49
how to drape the person so that they're covered in
19:52
the right places. Correct answer, yes, menager. So when you
19:56
were being trained by Emmy and Jeffrey on some massage techniques,
20:01
did anyone say anything sexual during the conversation? Answer not
20:05
that I recall. Manager. What was the mood like, was it,
20:09
you know, laughing? Answer yes, comfortable, menager. And just to clarify,
20:14
the people who were giving the massages at the various
20:16
points in time were clothed while they were doing that.
20:19
Correct Ms McCauley objection. Manager, in this period you just
20:24
described with Emmy, Taylor and Jeffrey in a bathroom upstairs
20:27
on your third visit to the home, people giving the
20:30
massages had their clothes on. Correct answer correct, Menager. All right,
20:35
what was the next time you remember coming to the
20:37
house there? Answer? The next time was to do a massage?
20:41
All by myself. Manager, Okay, And how did that one
20:44
come about? Answer? Hm, someone must have called me, but
20:48
I don't remember who. Menager, And to whom did you
20:51
give the massage on this next visit to the house?
20:55
Answer Jeffrey. Manager. Was Glaine present during that massage? Answer? No? Manager?
21:01
Did anything unusual occur during that massage? Answer after Manager?
21:06
What happened after the massage? Answer? He asked me how
21:10
well do I orgasm? And I said I don't I'm
21:13
a virgin, and he was quite surprised. Manager. Where were
21:17
you when you were having this discussion? Answer in the bathroom? Manager?
21:21
Were you clothed? Answer? Yes? Manager? Was he clothed? Answer?
21:26
I don't remember him being naked. He was probably either
21:28
wrapped with a towel or in a bathrobe. Manager. Were
21:32
you caught off guard by this question? Answer? Yes? Manager.
21:36
Was that the first time anyone had said anything sexual
21:39
to you? During this answer ever? Yes? Manager. Did he
21:44
say anything else that you recalled during that conversation? Answer?
21:48
I mean we had a little bit of a conversation
21:50
about it, but I don't recall specifically. Manager. And how
21:54
did that massage encounter end? Answer normal? There was nothing
21:59
I had to do so just normal massage. Manager. Did
22:02
he pay you? Answer yes? Manager. How much did he
22:06
pay you? Answer two hundred dollars? Manager. How did he
22:10
pay you? Answer cash? Manager? And where was the cash?
22:14
Answer I don't recall specifically. It was either he brought
22:17
it upstairs with him or it would have been down
22:20
on his desk. Manager. And I'm assuming that you had
22:23
other massages that you gave under similar circumstances in the
22:27
next years. Right answer many right, Manager, So recalling this
22:33
particular one is not sticking out in your mind? Answer
22:36
yes McAuley. Objection, menager. Do you remember the next time
22:41
after that? Answer? I don't. I mean from there it's
22:44
just a blur of random invites to come over and
22:47
do it. Massage was like I would see him maybe
22:50
three days in a row, and then I wouldn't see
22:53
him for two months. It was an irregular schedule. Manager.
22:57
Do you ever recall a time where you came over
23:00
every day for three weeks in a row? Answer no, Menager.
23:03
Were you paid two hundred dollars per massage? Answer yes, menager?
23:08
And how long did the massage last? Answer anywhere from
23:11
thirty minutes to an hour and a half. Menager. Did
23:14
you ever give a four hour massage to him? Answer
23:18
good grief, No, not that I recall. Menager. Have you
23:21
ever given a four hour massage to anyone in your
23:24
whole life? Answer no, I have not. Menager. Tell me
23:27
how the whole idea of traveling to New York came up? Answer?
23:31
I actually was not home. They called my apartment. My
23:35
roommate answered. When I got home, she said, you need
23:38
to call Jeffrey Epstein immediately. He wants to take you
23:41
to New York. But they are leaving at four. And
23:43
I was excited because I had never been to New York. Menager,
23:47
are you from redacted? Answer? I am, Menager, But you
23:51
never went to New York? Answer just flying over it? Menager.
23:55
When you said they called, do you know who called
23:57
your room mate? Answer? I don't know who called my roommate. Menager.
24:02
Is this sort of pre trip to New York period?
24:05
Do you recall discussing any of the particulars of your
24:08
massage with Jeffrey with Glaine McAuley. Objection Manager, if that
24:13
makes sense? Answer no, Menager. So before you got this call,
24:19
had anyone mentioned the idea of traveling to you? Answer? No, Manager.
24:23
Did you call Jeffrey immediately. Answer I did, Manager. And
24:28
what conversation did you have with them? Answer? Basically, he said,
24:32
I want to take you to New York City? Can
24:34
you be here quickly? And I got to the house
24:36
and he said do you have a passport? I said no,
24:39
He said go get it. So I went back and
24:41
picked up my passport and went back to his house
24:44
before we went to the airport Manager. And why did
24:47
you need your passport? Answer? I was ready to find out.
24:50
I had no idea Menager, this was the spontaneous phase.
24:55
Answer exactly, Manager, So you went and got your passport,
24:59
you came back, and then what happened? Answer? Then we
25:03
went to the airport manager? And who is we? Answer?
25:06
So I don't remember the ride to the airport but
25:09
the people that I recall being on the plane was Jeffrey, Glaane,
25:12
Virginia and Die Menager. And was the first time you
25:17
met Virginia? Answer? I believe it was that day. Manager,
25:21
in your previous visits to the house, had you seen
25:23
her there? Answer not that I recall, Menager. And what
25:27
was your impression the first day you met her? Answer?
25:29
She seemed young and blonde and cute. Manager. What was
25:33
her personality like? Answer, I honestly don't recall her personality.
25:38
Bubbly manager, did you see her in the plane or
25:42
on the trip to New York engaged in any kind
25:44
of affectionate or sexual contact with Jeffrey? Answer no, menager
25:49
with Glaine, answer no menager. How did it come to
25:53
be that you were in a casino in Atlantic City? Answer?
25:56
We As we were flying, Jeffrey said, why don't you
25:59
go sit in the cockpit to check out the landing.
26:02
So we were sitting there, and the pilots told me
26:04
to go back and tell them that we can't land
26:06
in New York and that we were going to have
26:08
to land in Atlantic City. Jeffrey said, great, we'll call
26:12
up Trump and we'll go to I don't recall the
26:14
name of the casino, but we'll go to the casino. Menager.
26:18
And what happened with the ID issue? McAuley objection, Shoeburg
26:23
goes on to answer, all I knew is that she
26:26
was not going to be allowed to gamble, and so
26:28
I spent time with her. We were just walking around.
26:30
I don't remember what we did because either she didn't
26:33
have an ID or she was too young. I don't
26:35
remember specifically why. I just remember that she could not gamble. Menager. Okay,
26:41
so you just walked around with her in Atlantic City?
26:44
Answer U huh, in the casinos. We never left the casino. Manager.
26:48
Were you disappointed that you couldn't gamble? Answer? No, Manager,
26:53
when you were walking around and talking to her, did
26:56
you learn anything about her? Answer not that I recall, Meninger.
27:00
Did you have an impression about why she was on
27:02
the trip? Answer at that point, no, I was so
27:05
new to the whole thing. I was just trying to
27:07
figure out my position and who everybody was. At that point,
27:11
I had no idea. I didn't know anything sexual was
27:14
happening at all, So I just felt like she was
27:16
just another visitor. Manager. Did she tell you at that
27:19
time that she had been to New York with Jeffrey before?
27:22
Answer not that I recall, Menager. Did she tell you
27:25
anything about Glaine during that walk about? Answer no, Menager.
27:30
And then you all traveled to New York on that
27:33
same night? Answer yes, Menager. How long were you in
27:36
New York for on that visit? Answer it was maybe
27:39
two nights. Manager. And where did you sleep at night? Answer?
27:43
I slept in one of the guest rooms at his
27:45
townhouse at seventy first Street. Manager, and did you stay
27:50
in the same room as Virginia? Answer no, Manager, do
27:53
you know where she stayed? Answer no? All right, folks,
27:56
we're going to wrap up this episode right here, and
27:59
in the next episode on the topic, we'll pick up
28:01
where we left off. All of the information that goes
28:04
with this episode can be found in the description box.
28:08
What's up, everyone, and welcome back to the Epstein Chronicles.
28:12
In this episode, we're gonna pick up where we left
28:15
off with a Johanna Schoberg deposition. So let's just dive
28:19
right back in and pick up where we left off Menager.
28:23
And then when you got into Manhattan, how did it
28:25
come to be that you were doing some sight seeing? Answer? Well,
28:29
they knew that I had never been, so I believe
28:31
Jeffrey asked the driver and Demi just to drive me
28:34
around to see the Empire State Building. That's all I remember.
28:37
It was late, it was dark. It wasn't long, maybe
28:40
thirty minutes. Manager. When you got back to the house,
28:44
what happened? Answer? I walked in the front door and
28:47
Golaine stuck her head over the grand staircase and asked
28:50
me to come upstairs into the living room. Menager, and
28:54
can you describe the living room? Answer? Oh, it was
28:57
very large and very formal. And Jeffrey and to her,
29:00
and Virginia and Prince Andrew were there, menager. And what
29:03
were they all doing when you came in? Answer? Just socializing.
29:07
I don't remember them doing an activity. It was just
29:09
being together, Menager. Was anyone unclothed? Answer no, Menager. Was
29:15
this the same room where Jeffrey had a desk? Answer
29:18
it could have been, but I can't remember. Menager. Did
29:22
you go to New York more than one time? Answer yes, Menager.
29:26
How many times did you go to New York? Answer
29:28
two times? Menager, This was the only time that you
29:31
met Prince Andrew in New York though, Answer yes, Menager.
29:35
When you came upstairs, where was Virginia sitting? Answer? I
29:39
don't remember, Menager. Do you remember what she was wearing?
29:43
Answer no, Menager, she was already there when you got
29:47
back from sight seeing. Answer yes, Menager. Tell me what
29:50
happened with the caricature? Answer Golen asked me to come
29:55
to a closet. She just said, come with me. We
29:57
went to a closet and grabbed the puppet, and the
30:00
puppet of Prince Andrew, and I knew it was Prince
30:03
Andrew because I had recognized him as a person. I
30:05
didn't know who he was, and so when I saw
30:08
the tag that said Prince Andrew, then it clicked. I'm like,
30:12
that's who it is. And we went down back down
30:15
to the living room and she brought it in. It
30:17
was just funny because he thought it was funny because
30:20
it was of him. Menainger, Tell me how it came
30:24
to be that there was a picture taken McAuley objection, Shoburg.
30:29
I just remember someone suggesting a photo, and they told
30:32
us to get on the couch, and so Andrew and
30:34
Virginia sat on the couch and they put the puppet,
30:37
the puppet on her lap, and so then I sat
30:39
on Andrew's lap, and I believe on my own volition,
30:42
and they took the puppet's hands and put it on
30:45
Virginia's breast, and so Andrew put his on mine. Menager,
30:50
And this was done in a joking manner. McCauley objection, Schoburg. Yes, Menager,
30:56
do you recall a photo being taken of that event? Answer? Yes, Manager,
31:01
you've never seen that photo. Answer no, Menager, you don't
31:05
know whose camera it was. Answer no, manager, Virginia was
31:09
sitting on a couch next to Andrew, not in a
31:10
big leather armchair. Answer maybe I'm just trying to remember
31:14
how I remember it. Manager, to the best of your recollection,
31:18
you went and sat on Andrew's lap correct answer, yes, manager,
31:22
on his knee. Answer yes, manager, and Virginia was not
31:26
sitting on his knee. Correct answer. I don't recall. I
31:29
just remember I was. She might have been on his
31:32
other knee like Sanna. I don't remember. Manager. After that,
31:36
Do you remember any other pieces of that social engagement?
31:39
Answer no, manager. Do you know where you went Schoberg?
31:44
From there? I went to bed? Manager were people drinking? Answer?
31:48
No manager. Did you hear Glenn Maxwell told Virginia to
31:52
do anything while you were in that room? Answer? No, manager.
31:56
Do you recall what happened the next day in New York? Answer?
32:00
I mean that was the day I went to Victoria's secret.
32:03
I went and walked around by myself, and I went
32:05
to a souvenir shop and got a mug or something.
32:08
That's all I recall. Menager, did you go anywhere with Virginia. Answer, oh,
32:13
my gosh, yes, we went to Phantom of the Opera. Manager.
32:16
Who else went? Answer? I think it was just she
32:19
and I. I forgot about that. Thank you for that memory, Menager,
32:24
it's my job. Anything else you remember about that day
32:27
in New York? Answer? No, Manager, you said you had
32:31
given a massage to Jeffrey while they were on their
32:34
trip or was it a subsequent trip? Answer that trip, Menager?
32:39
And how did that come to be? Answer? Either he
32:42
or somebody asked me to go and do it. Someone
32:44
showed me to the room, but I don't remember who
32:46
it was. Menager. Can you describe that room? Answer? Yes.
32:50
It was a high ceiling, dark red walls or dark
32:53
blue walls or dark blue carpeting or something. It had
32:56
a massage table set up in the middle, and there
32:59
was a large want to say, like a fifteen foot
33:01
photo either photo or a painting of a naked girl.
33:05
Manager pornographic or artistic? Answer? No, No, I wouldn't say pornographic,
33:11
more artistic, Menager. Artistic? Was Galainne present during the massage? Answer? No? Menager,
33:18
did something about that particular massage session stand out to you? Answer? Yes,
33:23
that was when I first was asked to squeeze and
33:25
rub his nipples while he pleasured himself. Manager, And did
33:30
he say that's what he was going to do? Answer
33:33
he yes, he was just very blunt about it. He said,
33:36
rub my nipples. I'm going to jerk off. I was like, no, done, manager,
33:41
and you walked out? Answer I did, manager? Were there
33:45
any repercussions for you were walking out? Answer amazingly, no,
33:50
knowing what I know now, I'm surprised I was ever
33:52
called back. But no, I just stood my ground and
33:55
walked out. I'm not comfortable with that, Menager. Do you
33:58
know personally whether anyone else has said that to him?
34:01
Answer no, Manager. Did anyone ever tell you that they
34:06
had been in a massage scenario and told him? No?
34:09
Answer no Manager. Do you recall when in your trip
34:12
the massage occurred? Answer well, it was not the day
34:16
we landed. It must have been the next day that
34:19
we were there. Menager, Do you remember anything else about
34:23
Virginia from that trip other than Prince Andrew Thing and
34:25
the Phantom of the Opera? Answer well, we were getting
34:28
ready to leave to go to the airport, and we
34:31
were waiting. She and I sat on the steps in
34:33
the foyer. I do remember just kind of asking a
34:35
few questions to try to understand her role, because at
34:39
that point now I knew what he wanted from me
34:42
in the massage, but she did not make it clear
34:45
to me that she was participating in that. So I
34:48
was prodding gently to see if there was anything happening
34:51
that shouldn't have been, because I was getting the impression
34:54
that she was She told me she was seventeen. Manager,
34:58
she told you she was seventeen. Answer uh huh, Menager,
35:02
how did that come up? Answer? I asked her manager?
35:05
Was anyone else present during the conversation? Answer no, Manager.
35:10
You mentioned in your earlier testimony that she seemed orphan
35:13
like answer yes, Menager, But you said that was something
35:17
you had said to Miss McCauley. Correct answer, correct, Menager,
35:22
that was not said at the time. Answer right, No.
35:25
At the time, I was getting an impression that she
35:28
did not have a family or had walked away from
35:31
her family, and it seemed to me, you know, they
35:33
had just sort of adopted her, not as a child,
35:36
but they would take care of her. Men. Did you
35:39
observe anyone speaking to her as a child like make
35:42
up your bed? Answer? No, Men did you observe whether
35:46
she was using drugs during that trip? Answer no. McCauley objection, Menager,
35:53
did you ever observe her using drugs? Answer not that
35:55
I recall, meninger. Did she ever tell you that she
35:59
was using annex? Answer no, Menager. Cocaine answer no, Manager,
36:05
Ecstasy answer no, manager, heroin answer no, Manager. When was
36:12
the second trip you took to New York? Answer later?
36:14
Maybe two thousand and five. I don't know. I could
36:17
look in the fly record. Menager. That's all right. Answer
36:20
I don't remember exactly. Manager, You just recall it being
36:24
several years so after? Answer yes, several years later. Manager.
36:29
And just so I'm clear, can you just list for
36:31
me the places you recall traveling with Jeffrey. Answer yes,
36:35
the first trip was New York and the Virgin Islands,
36:38
and then not again until around two thousand and five.
36:41
We went to New Mexico and to New York City
36:43
and the Virgin Islands. Manager. So you were in New
36:47
York twice and the Virgin Islands twice and New Mexico once?
36:51
Answer yes, Manager. Anywhere else? Answer no? Manager. Were those
36:56
primarily on the private planes? Answer yes, you said you
37:01
flew commercially once to get back. Answer yes, Manager. Do
37:05
you recall any other commercial flights Answer, he bought a
37:08
couple of flights from me when I wanted to go
37:10
to New York for personal reasons. One time I went
37:13
to New York commercially and I was there with friends.
37:16
But I did go over to his house while I
37:18
was staying in the city. Menager, And that's not the
37:21
trip to New York Answer no separate. Manager. Would you
37:26
characterize your relationship with Jeffrey as friendly McAuley objection witness, Yes, Manager,
37:32
if you asked him to buy you a ticket to
37:34
New York, that might be something that he would do. Answer.
37:37
I never asked him to do anything for me, but
37:39
I told him I was interested in something, and he
37:41
always offered. Manager. The second trip to New York, anything
37:45
memorable about that? The one, I'm sorry, the one that
37:48
you mentioned that was with Jeffrey. Answer. I do recall
37:52
Nadia being there while I massaged. She gave him a
37:55
facial but nothing sexual happened. Manager. And do you recall
37:59
if Glen was part of that trip or not? Answer?
38:02
I remember her being in New Mexico. Menager. What do
38:05
you remember about her being in New Mexico. Answer. I
38:09
remember she took me to when they were building the ranch.
38:11
They had a little three bedroom home, just like a
38:14
prefab house. She took me over there, so we went
38:17
for a little walk. I remember she had two new
38:19
puppies named Max and Minnie, little Yorkis. And I want
38:22
to say that it was around Jeffrey's birthday when we
38:25
were there, but nothing. There was no like celebration or
38:29
cake with candles. It was just another day, Menager. You
38:33
said the Virgin Islands were a part of that second
38:36
trip as well. Answer yes, Menager. And do you remember
38:39
Golaine being part of the Virgin Islands the second time?
38:42
Answer yes, that's when she called went to bed and
38:46
kissed us all on the head and called us her children. Menager.
38:49
Who were the other participants in that session? Answer that's who.
38:53
I don't recall who was there. I want to say
38:55
that Nadia was Menager, but Virginia was not there. Answer
39:00
Virginia was not there. Manager. Do you recall the point
39:03
in time in which Virginia went away? Answer sort of.
39:07
After the trip to New York, I was given her
39:09
phone number to call, and I remember one time I
39:12
tried to get a hold of her her boyfriend answered
39:14
a boyfriend, I would assume, and he sounded like he
39:16
was high, and I couldn't find out where she was,
39:19
and then from there she was out of the picture. Manager.
39:22
Do you recall how long after the New York trip
39:24
that occurred? Answer I would say it was probably within
39:27
a month or two. Manager. Did she tell you she
39:31
was working elsewhere? Answer no. Manager. Did you ask her?
39:35
Answer no, manager. Did you mention that she was a waitress?
39:39
Answer no, manager and worked at Taco Bell answer uh huh. Manager.
39:45
Did you speak to her boyfriend or a boyfriend at
39:47
any other time associated with her? Answer no. Manager. Did
39:52
you meet her boyfriend? Answer no. Manager her fiance answer no.
39:57
McCauley objection. When you were on the plane with Jeffrey
40:02
Epstein during these two trips, he was present on all
40:05
of those flights, answer yes. Manager. Did you observe any
40:09
sexual behavior happening on the plane? Answer no. He told
40:13
me a story of something that happened one time. Manager.
40:16
Did it involve Glenn Maxwell? Answer no, Manager. Did it
40:19
involve Virginia Roberts Answer no, Manager, And you didn't see anything,
40:24
answer no, Manager. You did give massages to Glenn Maxwell
40:28
correct answer yes, Manager on how many occasions? Answer maybe
40:33
somewhere between five and ten. Manager, was that over the
40:37
course of the five years? Answer yes, Manager, was there
40:41
at some point during that five years where Glenn Maxwell
40:44
was not around as much? Answer yes, Manager. Do you
40:47
recall when that was? Answer in the middle. Manager, did
40:52
you know why that might be? Answer no, Manager. Is
40:55
that about the time that you started seeing Nadia more frequently?
40:58
Answer yeah, I guess she was probably in the picture more.
41:02
Her and Sarah both had kind of been around the most. Manager.
41:06
Did you observe Nadia or Sarah appearing to act like
41:09
Jeffrey's girlfriend? Answer Nadia, not Sarah. Menager, what did you observe?
41:14
Answer she was just very loving kissing him. Manager. Did
41:18
you know how old she was? Answer I didn't know, Menager.
41:22
So you gave massages to Glene five or ten times?
41:25
Was there anything unusual about those massages? And just to
41:28
add here, Nadia Marsenkova allegedly was sold to Jeffrey Epstein
41:32
when she was just a little girl. So that's a
41:35
whole other story that at some point is going to
41:37
come out. Menager. You've been quoted in the press, perhaps
41:42
the saying that she wasn't very picky. Answer about massage
41:46
Menager about her massages? Answer not like Jeffrey, I guess
41:50
I mean saying that meant that, you know, I would
41:52
do whatever I wanted to do in the massage, whereas
41:55
Jeffrey was like, do my foot, do my leg, he
41:58
would kind of narrate what he wanted. She just wanted
42:00
a massage, so, if that makes sense, Manager, she may
42:05
have been naked under a towel. Answer definitely, Manager, in
42:09
a regular massage fashion. McCauley objection. Answer yes, Actually, I
42:14
do recall an instance where I was massaging her and
42:17
Jeffrey came into the room and he did something sort
42:19
of sexual to her, whether it was fondling her or
42:22
slapping her butt or something, and she brushed him off
42:24
like she was embarrassed. Manager. So she never asked you
42:28
to touch her in a sexual manner correct answer no, Manager,
42:33
And she did not rub her breasts on you, for example.
42:36
Answer no. McCauley objection. Manager, did she demand that you
42:41
perform oral sex on her? Answer no, Manager. Did she
42:45
not demand that you undress during your massage? Answer no, Menager,
42:50
There was nothing from her that was sexual during the
42:53
massage that you gave her. McCauley objection, and then schoberg answers, correct, McCauley,
43:00
do you recall when was the last time you gave
43:02
her a massage? Answer? I don't recall. All right, folks,
43:05
we're gonna wrap up that episode right here, and in
43:07
the next episode we'll pick up where we left off.
43:10
All of the information that goes with this episode can
43:13
be found in the description box.