Latest / Discomfort Required / Thinking About The Tactical Games? Watch This First | Kelly & Jon Urwiler

Transcript

Thinking About The Tactical Games? Watch This First | Kelly & Jon Urwiler · Discomfort Required

• Trent: What's up, everybody? Welcome to Discomfort Required. we got my friends Kelly and John Erweiler on today. They are Tactical Games badasses. And we're gonna get into how they got into the tactical games, what kind of mindset it takes to compete in this sport, and how they go about it, and talk about maybe what some advice would be for somebody getting into this awesome, awesome thing where you get to shoot guns and play with some fitness stuff. Cool. How are you guys today? Kelly & Jon: Thanks so. It's bird. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Good. Yourself? Trent: Doing great. I got a workout in today. I love Saturdays because it's kind of like just bodybuilding. So I just go into the gym, hammer it out, and then come home and eat food or whatever. and then a bunch of friends are at the gym doing a class workout after open gym. so I went by, brought my buddy Greg, who's coaching some coffee, hung out, watched everybody run around and do some stuff. And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go. So it was great. Kelly & Jon: Sounds more fun than our Saturday morning, but yes. Yeah. Trent: Yeah, you know, for sure. So you were just telling me you just started doing you started Saturday doing hill sprints. we're gonna get into that, and that sounds absolutely awful. getting into this guys, the first question I love asking everybody is what discomfort required means to you. So, Kelly, let's go with you first. what does that statement ring true to you? Kelly & Jon: Okay. go. Yes, number three. I mean basically if there's anything you're going for in life, not even just like tactical news related, if it's something at school, if it's something work-related, or you're just, you know, trying to hit a PR in the gym, I mean you're gonna have to put in the work. You're gonna have to put in dedicated time, effort, and it's not gonna feel good. So it's gonna be uncomfortable, right? So if you wanna grow, you have to get uncomfortable in any aspect of where you're trying to level up. So of course, related to the tactical games, yeah, you need to lift heavy shit, run some hill sprints in the heat, you know. don't turn on the air conditioner in your gym and you know, hopefully that will just help to level you up the next time, you know, you're in a competition. But again, it's even you know, like at work or if you're at school, like if you're in school, you're trying to graduate, trying to get a degree, maybe you're busy working. Trent: Yeah. Kelly & Jon: You know, it's hard to go to school and work, you're gonna put in late nights, that's uncomfortable, you're tired, you're dragging. But if you want something bad enough, yeah, you're gonna have to get uncomfortable. Trent: Yeah. For sure. And Kelly you have it, you have pretty intense job, right? that has to be uncomfortable playing with 3D modeling people's hearts that we're gonna get into. I'm sure prepping for that and going through that daily, that's gotta be just getting out of your comfort zone no matter what, 'Cause I mean, that's people's lives and things like that that's on the hand like, you know, on the table. Kelly & Jon: Yes, there's yeah, there's a lot we can talk about that. I know why you're laughing when I very first started that and I we'll get into it, but when we very first started that I used to come home every day crying like I can't do this, this is too hard, I can't do it. But you know, I told myself, okay, if at the one-year mark you're still coming home every day saying it's too hard, you can't do it, then yeah, you can quit, you can find something else. And somewhere along the way, I just stopped doing that, and the year came and went, and one day I was Trent: Okay. Kelly & Jon: yeah. Yeah, I'm just doing it. I'm just figuring it out. So yeah. There's a lot of discomfort there. Trent: that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That's that's super cool. John, what about you? Kelly & Jon: I think discomfort kind of pushing those limits for me is is exactly that. You know, you in a world that doesn't seem to want to be in any level of discomfort or pain, it's you gotta find your limits and then figure out how to push past them. And you know, whether it's like she said, working out when it's 110 out or doing hill sprints in middle of the morning when it's 110 out or you know, kinda going out of the tactical games and pushing every limit and then coming back and going, Okay, what did I suck real bad at? And then how do I hammer that shit until I don't suck at that anymore? people just don't want to do that anymore. And that's you know, when you start getting into the competitive, you know, whether it's tactical games or triathlons or strong whatever you're doing, you know, if you just stay at the same baseline and you're into CrossFit, right? If you just lift what you know you can lift, you're never gonna get stronger, you're never gonna get faster, you're never gonna you're just gonna stay at that level. You have to find discomfort. like we were I was running hill sprints the other morning in this group of people I thought was like staring at me. Partly because I was doing these hill sprints and like like there was a field of water and I was just running through the water and I realized they're not staring at me because I'm look cool, they're staring at me because I'm running through water and then sprinting up a hill, and they're like, Why would I probably why the hell would I do that? And you know. Water's there, it's not gonna stop me from you know, it's uncomfortable. Now I got blisters from running through water and you know. But y you have to push limits and I think you just have to find that discomfort level, and then figure out how to push past it, because you know your mind is gonna wanna quit way before your body ever wants to quit. Like you have way more push and you just have to figure out how to turn. I call it my dumb switch, where you just flip the switch and you just get after it and then Go, well yeah it hurts, but taking a break's kinda gonna make it better. Let's just keep pushing. Either start a break or I'll just I'll just keep going. And usually I just keep going. So Trent: I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely love that. i it like those people were looking at you like you were insane, by the way. It wasn't looking they were not looking at you like you were cool. Because Kelly & Jon: No, not at all. Because I've seen myself run and it is not cool looking at all, but yeah. Trent: Yeah, it slogged it sat on like a walrus like, man, this is hard Kelly & Jon: Yeah, I think I'm running all fast and I'm basically walking. But you know, yeah, hey. Trent: Yeah. It it's always fun filming things like that and you're like, Wow, I thought I was so much more athletic and it turns out I'm not. Happens to me all the time. Kelly & Jon: the best one is when you're you have somebody videotape you and you you'll find this out when you're doing like a shooting aggregate and you're like, Man, I moved through that fast and then you watch the video and you're like, Am I walking? Like is this like me walking? I don't I I you know what the frick Yes, I'm walking and missing at the same time. It's amazing. Trent: Yep. In fact I was walking. Yep, for sure. For sure. I love those answers. I think to speak to your point, people are just comfortable, just being comfortable, And just going through life, doing the same thing over and over every day. And that is my biggest pet peeve. I I get to coach a lot of people and I get to see like a lot of progress and a lot of growth. And there's some people that just come into the gym and it's like they're just checking a box. If that works for them, that's perfectly fine. when you see that bleed over into like other parts of their life where they're working the job that they hate constantly and they're not doing anything to like progress. They go home, they eat cookies, they watch TV, and then they s you know, watch and repeat. And it's like that sounds so boring to me, right? And in a world where it is people are set in that Kelly & Jon: The Yeah. Trent: In that mindset, I want to help inspire, and that's why I'm having you guys on, you know, inspire people to like, hey, get off your ass, go do some cool shit. Like, do some shit you've never done before, regardless of like what it is, you know. There's a lot of people that are intimidated by guns. That is a whole thing. You know, there's a lot of people that are intimidated by fitness, and that is a whole thing. And it's like, go out and do something that like Exactly, like just make it like, no, let's never do that. But you know, like I want people to see like, Kelly & Jon: Yeah. Trent: There's nothing wrong with this, right? It is a beyond helpful skill and it's just gonna make you better athletically and get you like thinking outside of your box, which is super cool. Kelly & Jon: I think the the scary part about that is people don't want to fail and they don't want other people to see them fail. And y and you go, Well, you know, that's part of growth and that's part of that discomfort is looking dumb, making bad choices. Hopefully they're all safe bad choices, like I I planned my stage wrong and I shot poorly. obviously, you know, safety is to paramount to paramount to this whole experience, right? But Trent: Yeah. Kelly & Jon: people just don't want to fail. And you go, well, if I go out and I totally shit the bed, and again, I go back to what I was telling you before we got on, you know, if I destroy my entire weekend with the first two stages in Idaho, and then I can come to the realization I'm just having fun shooting in Idaho and I actually get to do this in life and it was totally worth it, but I still technically failed. You just you know, so or you know, so you just have to like take that with a grain of salt. You have to be willing to fail to do any of this stuff. Same with going to a CrossFit competition. How many people wish they could do a CrossFit competition and just don't because they don't want to go out and fail or look in front of other people? Well, and that's kind of one thing that we've talked about a little bit because we have an event coming up next month in Montana where we're actually going as individuals, and I'm totally petrified. So I'm like you, I'd rather just do it as teams. It's a lot more fun to share the pain than you know, suffering with someone. And you know, I have all these moments where I have a lot of self-doubt like. Trent: Right. Mm. Kelly & Jon: I don't know, I'm not good enough, I shouldn't be doing this. And he's like, Okay, hold on. In all of the world, think of how many women, first of all, are even wanting to do this, are willing to do this, can do it with the means, and then are doing it. He's like, You're such a small percentage of the people. I mean, who cares if you go out there and you come in last? You're still doing the thing, it's still fun, you're still learning. As long as you don't disqualify or get hurt, who cares? And so I have to think of that, you know, sometimes also when it comes You know, some of this stuff, but yeah, like talking about people being comfortable or scared or not willing to do it. I tried to remind myself that maybe there's people out there that wish they could do it. So since I can, I should. And whatever happens happens, it'll be fine. Yeah. Trent: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And and I mean that that's the shit that inspires people, So like my fiance When I first brought this up to her, she was terrified, Like and she's like, she was very uncomfortable around firearms and it and all the stuff. we went to and took a firearms class and she was still terrified of it. And every week we go to the range and she put, you know, rounds down down range and she's getting better and better. And now she's more comfortable I feel like when they when people get more comfortable, they're they're safer, right? When you're uncomfortable, it's just like when you're walking on a roof and you're like, my God, I'm gonna fall, you're gonna you're gonna manifest that shit. Kelly & Jon: Right. Trent: You're gonna fall, hey, be confident that you're gonna be safe and then go with it that way, But looking like honestly, watching videos of, you know, competitions in Europe you are inspiring people to do this stuff. And that's why it's super, super important for people to see the shit and hear the shit. Like I I think it's super super cool. so how did we get into this? So people can hear like, I started somewhere. How did I get into this aggressive fitness extravaganza? I'm sure it it's gonna be different for everybody, right? And I wanna hear where you came from fitness because I know when we first chatted, you did some marathons and you did some triathlons and things like that. how did this all come about, John, let's start with you. Where where where did it all start? Kelly & Jon: I mean I guess the background of competing started in like you said, I I have been doing random CrossFit competitions and half marathons and half Ironmans and Did strongman for a while. I kind of jumped around to all these different things. I threw Highland games for a lot of years and kinda played that little circuit of throwing heavy shit and telephone poles and stuff. and it it you know, I think the thing like it's not that I get bored quickly, but I just am constantly trying to search for something that pushes again my limits or f finds some new thing that I don't think I can go out and do and figure out like, you know, six three, two twenty, two thirty, somewhere in there. Trent: Hell yeah. Kelly & Jon: You know, I'm not really an Iron Man kind of guy, so I'm like, well, I'm gonna go do a frickin' half Iron Man and see how that turns out. Like, whatever. and then, you know, I knew I wanted to get back into shooting. I I've been shooting for a lot of years, you know, I've been shooting since my early twenties. but never really competitively. And I'm like, I just decided some years ago, I'm like, I wanna I wanna shoot I wanna shoot competitively. It looks fun, like US PSA, all this stuff. why am I not doing it? And Literally, I don't know if it's, you know, the iPhones of the world listening to me, but of course what pops up on my iPhone on Instagram is the tactical games. and as soon as I saw it, I'm like, Yep, I'm signing up. Yeah, I think a month later I signed up for New Mexico and I'm like, there's no way I'm not doing this and it's like a mad scramble of research and training and you know, going to the range and getting stuff signed in and buying all this gear and it's like, yeah, no matter what. Trent: Mm-hmm. Kelly & Jon: Going to frickin' New Mexico. So and I I just I did it, I got frickin' completely worked at that one and then I was hooked. 'Cause it's you know, the thing to me when you start getting into like, you know, CrossFit's one of triathlons are one of obviously tactical games. You have so many little diverse subsectors of skill that you have to have. Like, you know, like you look at triathlons, you you gotta you gotta be able to swim, you gotta be able to run, you gotta be able to cycle. Trent: Hell yeah. Kelly & Jon: CrossFit, you know, you have barbell movements and strength and strongman and y you just have all this stuff. And I'm like, what better to do than add frickin' shooting to all that crap? and I started that year doing New Mexico and was instantly hooked and had been going strong since then. I freaking love it. Trent: Right. Love it. So when you so when you decided to do it, like the algorithm like it it hears you and then it's like starts spitting all this stuff at you and and all that fun stuff because I know that's how it works. That's how that's how I end up buying half the shit that I buy. It's just like, that you were listening to me talk. That's great. I love that for me. but when you just so when you decided to to sign up, you signed up in the it was what, the beginning of twenty-four? Kelly & Jon: Yeah. But that worked out really well, yes. It's Twenty three. Twenty three. Twenty three. No, I think it was like a month, month and a half out. 'Cause it was one of the first events of the year. It was in February. And it was in February, so it it was literally the first event of the year, and I think it was either late December or sometime early January that I that I came across it and I'm like, Okay, f frick yeah, I'm doing this shit. Yeah. So Trent: Twenty-three, right? And you had six months to get ready, seven months to get ready. What did that what did that look like? shit. Even even less time. that's awesome. So, Kelly, how did John drag you into this? Kelly & Jon: Well basically somewhere around that time frame, like maybe you would come across it beforehand before signing up. It was our I think it was our twelfth wedding anniversary. Like he'd already been sort of shooting, talking about shooting. I come home and on the counter he had had this custom AR built, like custom Sarah code, it was like Tiffany blue, all this stuff had a scope on it. Gorgeous, gorgeous. And I took one look at it and I'm like, I I'm not touching that. I don't I don't know anything about it. I was like, it was beautiful, but I was totally freaked out. And so after he'd seen all this stuff, he started building some props. We went out to the desert together and he kinda he showed me all the ropes, showed me what to do. I totally had meltdowns because I couldn't figure out how to look through my scope and like get, you know, that I figured they call it a where you can't see this through the scope. I think. Trent: Amazing. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Kelly & Jon: There was literally one time where I set it down, I had a tantrum, I started crying, I kicked the tires of the truck and and then I took a breath and I'm like, okay, figure this out. And we came back to it, went back through it, and you know, I went with him to New Mexico, you know, as an observer, like trying to help him work through all the things. And the flow of the tactical games, you have like the same kind of groups that are following each other and you're judging for each other. So this there was this group of girls that you know we were getting familiar with over the weekend. At one point one of the girls just looked at me and was like, What, you didn't want to do this? And I'm like Me, I'm here to watch, and she's like, Why didn't you just sign up and try it? I'm like, shit, okay. So when he was done with the weekend, I'm like, all right, yeah, what's up? I'm signing up. Yeah, let's do this. And so this is February. We signed up for Perump, Nevada, which I think was in September, and then I spent like the rest of the time completely petrified. Like, what did I do? What did I get? What what what's happening? What did I get into? And you know, I went and I did the first event. I, as an individual. Trent: Yeah. Kelly & Jon: I don't think I ate a single thing all weekend, totally petrified, just freaked out. But it didn't come to last. I didn't get injured. I didn't dis get disqualified. And so a couple days after the event I was like 'cause I think right afterward he's like, Well, will you do another one? And I'm like, You can't ask me right now. You cannot ask me right now. I could just process this weekend. But then I was like, you know what? I would do another one as a team. Like I I'd try it as a team. And then I don't even remember what the next one was. Maybe it like Sierra Vista. Trent: Yeah. Kelly & Jon: And I realized, okay, this is super fun as a team. Love it. You're sharing the workload, you're sharing the stress. And you know, granted, it's a huge event, so eyes are on everyone, but it's not just me as an individual, as a lane, you know, by myself, everyone staring at me, even though they're not. so yeah, and then after that it was like, yeah, let's do it. And each time they sent out the schedule, it was like, my god, let's do this one, let's do this one, let's do this one, let's do that one. Trent: Mm-hmm. Kelly & Jon: And we had our passports at one point and hadn't used them on anything. So the first time last year when they did one in Poland, he's like, Fuck yeah, let's sign up for Poland and I'm like, Are you serious right now? He's like, Yeah, we have the passports, why not? I'm like I mean granted, we've been talking about international travel for like years and we're just yet again coming up with all the excuses as to why well we're busy and maybe once this settles out or her job or once I retired from my other job, you know, and I was like Well screw this, it'll it'll force that. It'll just force international travel. And even if the whole shooting experience goes to shit, we still get a beautiful two weeks at the time in Poland. So Trent: That's amazing. it always seems to like it, there's never a right time, right? It's something should force the hand a little bit. I think that's that's super cool. And just doing something like that that you've never done, even though you're petrified of it, like that's super dope. that takes a lot of will, And a lot of asking yourself, Am I really capable of doing this? And it's like, yes, the answer is always yes. you can do it Kelly & Jon: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Trent: When it comes to that type of mindset, what do you think sets apart a high performer compared to somebody who just works hard? Anyone can go first. Go for it. Kelly & Jon: I think a high performer one, I they they constantly are looking at themselves and trying to figure out where the deficiencies are and then coming up with ways to overcome those deficiencies. And I think that divides people from just working hard. Like and there's absolutely nothing wrong with just being a hard worker. If you're happy and you have everything going the way you want, absolutely. But they're kind of in that flow state where they're doing what they do well and and they work hard and they kind of get after it. And you know, you see you see a lot of those groups, even at the tactical games, right? People that are just out there to have a good time, be a part of the community. they don't really care. Like I've talked to plenty of people. It's like, hey, how'd you do on that stage? I don't know, you know, whatever. But it was fun. You're like, okay, and then you know, there's me, got my Trent: Mm-hmm. Kelly & Jon: iPad and I'm like circling misses and trying to figure out why I you know might have missed or did I get out of position or whatever. And you know you're just constantly in the state and it and it goes back to what we were talking about earlier a little bit, but like this constant like roller coaster of emotions where you're like, man, I just destroyed this whole weekend. But that's the self-evaluation and then going, okay, how do I fix this? Like one of my deficiencies in Idaho, I shot very poorly freestanding. Guess what I do at the range is many times I get to the range since Idaho, it's all freestanding shooting. You know, and I dislike it, but I'm gonna shoot freestanding rifle until I frickin' figure it out. You know, when I I notice some breathing issues, not breathing issues, but like just the way I breathe in between shots. I do a lot of I started a few weeks ago, started doing underwater breath hold training, trying to get as many laps as I can underwater. Trent: Mm-hmm. I'm Okay. Kelly & Jon: To again change that mindset of like when I'm not breathing, I'm not dying. I'm just holding my breath for a second. And if I can extend that out. So I guess that's I'm not necessarily calling myself a high performer, but again, you're just those those people that divide themselves out, they figure out these deficiencies and they figure they they hammer them, even if they hate They they just go, man, I suck at this. I'm gonna hammer this shit until I'm good at it. And then eventually I will love it because now I'm good at it. Trent: Yeah, exactly. Right. And I think that that I think that's the definition of a of a high performer, honestly. I mean, anybody who sees something and they're like, I will work hard at this, no matter what. So a good way to like for me to quantify it is like how much am I willing to hurt? Like when I like at a crossware competition or whatever, like, how much am I willing to hurt? I'm not willing to hurt like my fiance. Chelsea, she'll hurt until she dies. she goes so hard when she competes. It's not even funny. And I'm like, there's I get to a threshold and I'm like Kelly & Jon: Workers. Go ahead. Yeah. Trent: I don't need to do that. I'm just it's just not who I am as a person, Kelly & Jon: Well Trent: you know? Like I feel like I will bust my ass when it comes to anything that my mind is set on, there is no straying from the path as soon as my mind's set up. However, I don't think CrossFit competition is like that. I don't think that's one of them because I'm just like, man, that hurts. I don't want to do that anymore. Kelly & Jon: I'm sorry. Like I that is one thing I know about myself. I just won't just go. That is so true. Trent: Yeah. And and that's dope. Like, I will do that for anything that I really want it, not just want to want it, but if I want it want it, I'm like, I'll I'll die. No big deal. But I realize that cross competition is not that. Kelly & Jon: Okay. So the interesting part about that, kind of taking it back into the shooting realm and the whole, you know, the tactical games, is you have to figure out that's why this sport is so interesting to me, is you have to figure out how to turn that on and turn it off. If you're at like CrossFit or Strongman, you can just frickin' send it, right? Like I'm gonna go until I frickin' die. Well, if I can't figure out how to turn that off when I go to shoot. Trent: Yeah. Kelly & Jon: I'm I'm gonna frickin' send it and it's gonna be all over the place. Like so you know, I have to send it, slow it down, send it you know, and so it's so interesting to be able to go back and forth in that world and try and just balance that out. That's what's so frickin' interesting. Trent: So one of the things that I thought was super interesting is we competed at Wadapalooza last in SoCal, and one of the workouts was ski erg, double press, box jumpovers, and then erg shoot, So it's a laser gun, same concept. And it was like my heart rate was so jacked, I could not land a shot to save my life, Kelly & Jon: there's Yeah. Trent: Kelsey, she's over there just knocking him out. And I'm like, this is just let's let's just do this. This will be fun, it it's led in us into this piece, man, I was dying. I need to figure this out. I think I'm just at the point where I just want to have fun doing shit that I haven't done before, I don't take it very seriously anymore. I'm just like, let's just go have fun. It's gonna be it's gonna be great. So same question for you, Kelly. Like, what do you think sets apart a high performer? Kelly & Jon: I mean to me it's kind of a hard trick question because a high performer is a hard worker. So I mean, you know, yes, it they're just you know, a hard worker and then there's a different level where, you know, you're just sending it and you're doing everything you can to figure out how to get to the next level. Trent: Yeah. Kelly & Jon: Or where your deficiencies are, how can you hammer those and fix those, but you can't be a high performer if you're not a hard worker. guess you can be a hard worker and you know, not, you know, at super elite level. But I mean I still think a hard worker, you know, is just not necessarily the average, you know, even not even again related just to the tactical games. I mean, not currently, but in my past I've worked with a lot of just People who are satisfied just being mediocre, mediocre at their job, just showing up, punching, you know, doing the bare minimum to get by. And that mindset I cannot comprehend. Like I I mean, why would you not want to just be pushing something, be a higher performer, like learn something new, push yourself? Yeah, okay, fine, maybe you won't get paid more in the moment, but you're still gonna like grow, it's still gonna keep what you're doing interesting, you know. So I mean that I don't know, that's kind of my take on it. Trent: Mm-hmm. Mm. Kelly & Jon: That's a hard question to It's an interesting question not to interject, but it's interesting me, and again I'm not ever putting anybody down in the world, but like you take a higher hard worker and then a high performer, and I feel like all that group of people is such a subsector of the world at the moment. and then you have kind of everybody else that it it doesn't want to do. And you know, there is nothing. And she is right, yeah. You obviously have Trent: Mm-hmm. Kelly & Jon: But you know, I'm my person there's just that edge to people that want more. You know, they want every freaking limit everything. Trent: Yeah, and I I I agree. Yeah, I agree one hundred percent. And it's like just like you said, I don't understand I i it breaks my brain looking at somebody who's just like, mediocre and this is fine. I'm like, what? Like, how is that a thing? It doesn't even make sense, you know? Like you eat you eat the same thing every day. Also, don't do that. Like eat go be adventurous. Have a good steak. You know what I mean? Eat a pizza that's weird. Do something. Kelly & Jon: I want a hammer room. Yeah, I'm gonna Trent: Yeah. Kelly & Jon: get a break hammer. Try a little bit harder. Trent: Yeah, just try. Just try. So when when it comes down to it, you so when we first talked, you said your approach to the tactical games is a little bit different than like if you listen to Jen's episode, right? I want to hear like what your approach to the tactical game is, when you were getting into it, and like how that's changed and evolved, right? So what I mean is like Kind of if you were gonna give advice, but like this is the way that I do it and I think this works the best. Kelly & Jon: I'll go first, I guess. when we first got into it we were members of a CrossFit gym, but you CrossFit gyms come and go, owners come and go. And we're lucky that we do have a home gym here. And like when COVID hit, you know, that's really when the home gym like came into play because all the gyms out there were closed. Crazy. so we got used to working out here and Trent: Mm-hmm. Kelly & Jon: The more and more that we do these CrossFit or I not this CrossFit, these tactical games, you know, there were different implements that we didn't have in our home gym, 'cause our home gym is set up like a his and hers little CrossFit gym. And so, you know, we just kept adding different pieces, more sandbags, you know, different cardio equipment, the strength or the axle bars, that kind of stuff. And then we've now gotten away from a CrossFit gym, mainly for me, just you know, my work schedule is too crazy to try and make a four o'clock class or a five thirty class. So I kinda just rely on myself to program my workouts and you know, for me, you know, I really wish that I could have a dedicated time every day that I could get out there, get after it, you know, get my workout in. But it's really kind of at the mercy of my schedule. So for me, it's just kind of get it in where I can fit it in. And I'm sure at some point I should probably follow something more like somebody's programming, but you know, I just look at the implements that we have out there and I think, you know, I haven't touched a sandbag this week. I'm gonna do a crazy sandbag workout or, you know, that Axel Bar, I watched the last games, they did a lot of searcher carries and overheads. I should probably do that. Or, you know what, I hate sleds. Sleds suck. They're the worst. So I should probably do some sleds. So that's kind of my approach and yeah, you know, I would love to go out as an individual and just kill it. But also I just wanna go out and make it through it and you know, show myself that I can do it and, you know, not disqualify or get hurt. So that's really what I'm kind of focused on is like, you know, just get out there, get through the workouts and have a good time. Trent: I love that. That's great. That's really, really awesome. John, what about you? Kelly & Jon: I think when I first got into it and then I got well I don't want to take credit for getting hurt but you know whatever. didn't so yeah. I think that my approach to it was safety. Safety every safety was everything. one having you know, not to throw under under the bus, but having an uncomfortable shooter initially. Trent: I mean kinda forcefully. You're like, Hey, here's a gun, you're gonna do this, okay? Ready? Kelly & Jon: It was like no s everything we drive is safety driven. so you know, I think everybody's training method if they're gonna get into shooting sports of any sort, whether it's USPSA or tactical games or I'm doing the operator challenge coming up, which we can talk about here in a little bit if you want, but hammer frickin' safety. So I I hammered that, I even remember putting on like we sat down one. Friday or Saturday night, I don't remember what it was. She was super uncomfortable. I put her on a whole class on ARs and the function of ARs and every part of every piece of and it to probably bored her out of her mind. But I'm like, hey, if you're if you're gonna pick this rifle up, you're gonna understand every part of it. so that was my approach in that. And then I think shooting, you know, I I approached the sport wrong. I I I knew in New Mexico I was like, man, I'm a little out of shape. We were at like 6,000 feet. I got freaking hammered that weekend, but my shooting was horrible. and my points were very evident to that. yeah. And so I was like, no, this is a shooting sport with a fitness component. So if you're in good shape, yes, that's important, but you need to go into the range. You need to hammer range time, you need to shoot. still, even after Idaho, I think I shot. Trent: Mm-hmm. Kelly & Jon: very well I missed a podium by ten points. against very good shooters, so they I I think they were amazing shooters. but again I'm not hammering range enough. And that's where this entire sport comes and goes. And for people I think too many people are like, I'm in ring shape. You're like, Good, be in great shape and you can't you'll miss every shot as fast as possible. So you know, but I I think safety first always Trent: nice. Kelly & Jon: at every point in that just hammering. Trent: Nice. yeah, when it as soon as I I brought my pistol home, the first thing that I did, cause Chelsea was you know, really uncomfortable. Like she never had a pistol in the house before, So like we sat her down, I broke it down, I put it together, I put it in front of her, and I'm like, okay, let's break this down together, And then I let her break it completely down, all the way down to pieces, and then put it back together, and then as soon as we got the AR, same thing. Like it was like, break it all the way down. I want you to understand every piece. We're gonna go over and we're gonna hammer how to do this when we're at the range. Kelly & Jon: Right. Okay. Trent: We're right in the garage. Like we're just gonna go over every single piece, how to load it, how to turn the safety on, how to charge it, all the things, And she got comfortable with it here. Then we took it to the range and she was less scared of it when we got to the range and she did fine, And now she's more and more comfortable, which is I think it's super, super important. Kelly & Jon: E to this day, like if we go clean rifles and pistols, we I have a bench set up in my shop. We clean rifles and pistols across from each other, we make sure every piece and part is not only clean but put together correctly and we do that every every competition, every time we go shoot and we break everything down and we put it back together so that everybody has an understanding of what's going on. Trent: I love that. Kelly & Jon: malfunctions that you could experience. That was really kind of what was like scaring me, like all the different weird things that might happen with my pistol. Like I had some idea in my mind, like, my God, is it gonna explode in my hand? And so he went and he bought dummy rounds and like, you know, just with his fake rounds here in our house, manufactured all the different kind of, you know, malfunctions, you know, stove pipes, double feeds, whatever, and like had me working through and clear them. Trent: Mm. Mm-hmm. Kelly & Jon: And I can remember like some of the very first times of the range where if I had one of the malfunctions, I was like, I I I don't know what to do. And of course now I've been like on a stage in a competition, had one of those, I can just look at it, fix it real quick, and keep on going. that was like a really important thing like for me trying to work through with you know the fake rounds, all the different things you come across. I think to that point, well just to that point, you know, I see a lot because so in textbook games, obviously once you can Trent: Mm-hmm. I I Go ahead, John. Kelly & Jon: you judge the next group. So you you're still on firing line as a judge and you're there to kind of get you know, you wanna you want everybody to do this. You're also helping like, hey, no, you gotta do this next. Hey, don't get you know, don't forget this. But you see a lot of people that are out and they struggle with the ability to clear a firearm. Or when you see somebody get DQ'd, it's because they like again, they didn't clear correctly or they're making but again, this is all stuff you can do in your own home and Trent: Mm-hmm. Kelly & Jon: I guess again, Dummy Browns to her point are ten dollars on Amazon. Yeah. So you can set up every single malfunction almost any way you want and sit there and practice and then not have spent thousands of dollars to be out in Idaho or wherever to find out how to do that. You know what I mean? So yeah. Trent: Yeah, definitely. I did the same thing. I bought dummy rounds, I bought five five six dummy rounds, and I have a bunch of snap points for for our pistols. And we get whenever we're doing dry fire and so like we have a pretty suite set up in the garage and we'll do a workout, dry fire just like it would be a tactical games workout. That's like how we have been training lately, which is great, right? It teaches both of us like how we're gonna get our pistol out of our holster, how we're gonna put it, yeah, how we're gonna clear it and put it back in our holster to make sure that we're doing it right so we don't have so we don't have a chance of getting Kelly & Jon: And that's something. Okay. Trent: DQ'd whenever we go to to a a match, right? when we got when we first got my rifle, when Chelsea was trying to charge it, she was char how she was doing it, she was charging it very slow so it would double feed, right? So it was really good practice for her to understand, like, I need to fix this so that way this doesn't happen, right? And then teaching her how to like, so we live in the great state of Washington, which is trash, So we have I have a fixed magazine rifle, which sucks. I love my rifle. It shoots great, but it's fixed magazine, right? So to load it, you have to break it in half and put in rounds from the top. Or you have a stripper clip that you just stripper clip it in, which is great. Like that is super efficient. I love that. However, if you have a double feed, you can't open it, right? Because the bolt is back. So You have to take the bottom of the magazine off and drop all the rounds out of it that way. It is a pain in the dick. Just saying, right? Cause Washington sucks. But she understands how to do that, right? So that just gives it an extra level of safety. Like I'm I love the fact that she understands it, right? So we're talking about actually moving to Idaho or Tennessee. So it's like, you know, hey, we're gonna have normal rifles. It's gonna be fine. It's all it's all gonna work out. Kelly & Jon: So at Nationals last year, again, I had this stage, and after all these years, all this training and all these tactical games, and I was very safe about it, but like I had this two-gun stage, and somebody asked me afterward, they're like, Why were you manipulating your charging handles so much? And I'm like, I don't know. I just went into full frickin' send-it mode, and instead of just dropping the bolt, you know, it you know, during these mandatory reloads, I'm like manipulating things, and I'm like, I don't know, man. So I Trent: It just happened. Kelly & Jon: I came home and I just started hammering again, you know, manipulating and it it's a simple thing. It's something we do every game, so we do every every time worth of range. I just, you know, even in your best moment, you're like, I'm at nationals and I'm just doing stupid shit. So it's all this all this stuff is a diminishing skill to me. Like it's if you're not working on it constantly, it's a diminishing skill. Shooting's a diminishing skill. Trent: It happens. Kelly & Jon: Weapons manipulation is a diminishing skill. It's it's just like fitness. If I stop working out for two weeks, I go back to it, I'm not gonna run like I was two weeks ago. It's you know, I gotta work back at it. So Trent: Yeah, you can't take it for granted. Like that's for sure. Right. So the more I I love doing strong man stuff. I love playing with sandbags, I love doing all those things. And it's like the more we do it, it it's obviously fun, but like if you take any time off of it, it's like, I have to like relearn how to do this like correctly, right? So like, my back is tired. I didn't remember, you know, I didn't realize like how tired my back gets from doing these things. But yeah, we're we're dry firing every day. Like, because I want Kelly & Jon: Okay. Okay. It's not heavier. Yeah. Trent: For both of us to get better. But I also want less like I don't want to get there and be like up shit creek. You know what I mean? I'm like, no, I'm gonna like I pra I practice this is gonna be just fine. Like I'm not worried about it, right? And I I think that goes back to just being, you know, a hard worker or whatever. so Kelly & Jon: Okay, And you're right, and and that that's the other side of dry fire, because I I have a lot of friends that are like, I don't I don't I don't agree with dry firing, I don't like it. And you're like, how could you not agree with the ability to feel your trigger pull every single time? Like and i y yes, you do not have the reaction of a bullet and and recoil, but mastering your trigger pull is key to shooting parody. I mean that's Yeah, perfect. Trent: Yeah. Yeah, and and we have and we have a man to set up, right? So it's like we get to see what we're doing, what's going right, what's going wrong. And Chelsea just got her pistol and w we've been going to the range and she She doesn't intentionally do it, but it like she is anticipating the recoil. So the front of the firearm dips, right? So she's shooting low, even th but it's center mass. So she's like, she's on point. It's just low, right? And it's like we're trying to get her past that. So it's like the more we do it here, the more she's gonna understand, okay, this is how it's gonna go. So it's like more practice, better off we're gonna be. It's gonna be fine. so go go ahead. Kelly & Jon: No, I just thought it was just agreeing with it. Trent: Okay, right on. so if you were gonna give somebody advice on getting into this, what do you what what what would you tell them? Kelly & Jon: I would say sign up one. I you know, I think I talk to a lot of people who are like, Yeah, I wanna do that next year, or I wanna do that when I'm in better shape, or I wanna do that once I've shot some other stuff, and it's like, Okay, well, just sign up one. If you can afford it, obviously there's a money aspect and it's a very gear heavy sport. especially when you shoot teams with your wife and you gotta buy a you know, four of everything and you know, so it gets expensive. So I I understand that side of things. But one, sign up, and then two, safety. And then three, just go hammer the range. You you you know, some of these guys and gals are shooting thousands and thousands of rounds a year. so you even keep up at that level is dry firing. Trent: Isn't it? Kelly & Jon: and go into the range and again if you can afford it you've got to be setting rounds down range or rounds down range. It just has to happen. and then the fitness aspect. Look and see what the stages are. You can see stage, you know, you can listen to the podcast they have that kind of sums up the stages and the after action of each event. You can see some of the stage documents out there. try and recreate those and do them and then dry fire while you're doing them. And then you know, just go out and be safe and have fun and meet a bunch of frickin' super cool people. You'll be hooked. I would I mean I would say my advice is sign up for a skirmish. So skirmishes are not, you know, in every state, but they're in several states. It's basically just a one day thing where you get four events versus like, you know, tactical games is over two days and you get eight events. It's a more chill environment. Newer people are there, so everyone's very welcoming, inviting, kind of Trent: Hell yeah. Kelly. Kelly & Jon: helping teach you the flow of things, but even if you have just, you know, what you would consider like the most basic gear and, you know rifle and a pistol that'll work for it, go out and do a skirmish. Just see what it's like, you know. See where you need to practice, what you need to work on. And if you're s if you can't do a skirmish, you can volunteer at an an event. and that way you're not doing it, but you're there in it, you see how it works, you see what the people are doing. So that at least also kind of gives you more of an idea versus just like kind of watching stuff on YouTube or whatever. So Trent: That's great. I think that's I think that's a great idea. Honestly. so always just send it. Gas pedal. That's it. Yeah. all right. I want to talk about Poland as the team, right? And then I wanna talk about Idaho. John, as you go in for an individual this last weekend, and then I want to talk about this operator thing you got coming on. So Poland. Kelly & Jon: I still I still say just send it and go for the full moment and whatever. it's go. Just freaking go, yeah. Trent: Talk to me about what you loved about it, how what it was like renting to do it, and then how the competition went. Kelly & Jon: so the first year we did it in Poland was the last year. One, it was amazing. Everything about it was freaking amazing. I have I have I mean I mean other than the travel on both ends, and it's just a long day of travel on both ends. Okay, but before that there was a lot of anxiety being a hundred percent there's anxiety and she's doing most of the travel planning, so there was that. the rentals was a little bit sketchy. we were gonna bring gear and rifles, but that turned into like having to travel a month out to an embassy here in the States to get permits and all that good. stuff and I'm like you know what's true it and so she was in contact with Matt who's the owner of the range in Poland and he's like no we'll take great care of you we'll have all your weapons So we we ended up deciding to rent and I think at that point it's just like, hey, you know what? How about we just agree that if this whole thing goes to shit and we don't end up having weapons or something just goes wrong, we'll just totally dig having two weeks in Poland. Like who gives a shit? We're in Poland, we'll run around, we'll see all the sites, we'll eat food, you know, we'll see if we can get a credit for a different event. If we can't shoot, like life goes on. And I think once we hit that point, a lot of the anxiety Went away with traveling overseas to do this. I think for me, once we got there, other than the fact that even though I called my cell carrier like three or four times, I had no cell service, so that was a little weird being in a different country and not having any you know way to communicate. But so that was a little interesting. That actually turned out to be a blessing in disguise. Two weeks with no phone was amazing. Trent: Mm. I bet. I would love to throw my phone in the river for a month. Kelly & Jon: Right. I was like, it's it's this moment of like, but this thing I used all day for business and all this stuff and talked to all these customers. You didn't need it. I had nothing, and then, you know, I got back and nobody dropped me and so business you know. So I just I just went back to normal. when we got there the range was so inviting, it was so nice, they were so friendly. The rentals ended up being so easy, they had a holster for us. I mean, everything just worked really smoothly. A lot of people have asked, you know, back then and Trent: Mm-hmm. Kelly & Jon: still even now like, my gosh, how'd you get your firearms over? And I'm like, we did it, we rented and it was great. That's again part of the challenge is not only are you traveling overseas, you're jet lagged, you have no idea what's gonna happen like with the range. Now you get to work with some firearms that you've never shot before. And usually every tactical games has what they call a tune up the day before, both here in the States and they had it overseas. So we signed up, you know, last year and this year. So at least it's one day of you know shooting what you're gonna be competing with. But it was great. They're awesome. And the range the most beautiful range I've ever seen. yeah, it's like this range from pre-World War II. It had been occupied by the Germans and then the Red Army during communism and like there's just tons of history there and you can see all the architecture at the range as to when it was probably built just by looking at it and you're just yeah, it's green and the temperature is perfect, it was beautiful. I mean really the experience is just amazing. So nice, yes, the competitors. Trent: I love that. Kelly & Jon: They're so happy, they're so friendly. It was just great. I think that was the biggest countries, yeah. Culture shock for me. Obviously, I'm not I wasn't an international travel type person before that. was just meeting all these people and hearing their stories about the difficulties they have being able to shoot or own firearms or get ammo or do anything like talking, you know. I'm now friends with a bunch of these French guys, and you know, so these every time I talk to them or whatever, it's like Trent: Yeah. Kelly & Jon: yeah, you know, we can't we can't holster draw at the range. It's illegal to dynamic train. You can you can't do any of that, or you know, we can only own one gun, but it has to stay at the range in a locker and you're or certain countries you only get like a little bit of ammo annually, so it's just like wow. We have it pretty good here. We have it good, but it's Trent: So we don't we don't have it that bad. Kelly & Jon: No, no. So even even with the funky Washington rules of rifles, we're still pretty pretty lucky to be able to do what we're able to do here, you know. Yeah. Trent: Yeah. So how were the state were the stages any more difficult or different than how they set it up in the States? Are they just like pretty much comparable? Kelly & Jon: everything was very heavy. I'm gonna say it's harder. I mean I I don't know. Last year for sure, you know, everything's written of four some kilos, so you're like, cool, this is this bag says forty kilos and you go to pick it up and of course that's like ninety or close to ninety pounds, and you're like, my god, shit, this is hard. Yeah. Trent: Okay. Yeah. That's how you PR is just lift everything in kilos. Exactly. Kelly & Jon: Yeah, but you don't know what you're lifting it for. Yeah, and you know, lifting the bags over the yolks, they don't adjust the height there. The yoke height is what it is, so you just gotta figure that one out. And you know, we're running up and over berms, like in between, you know, the ley line, so that is super steep. That was really hard for me. Last year going over a bunch of walls with like rucksacks and stuff. I mean I I okay. I don't know if it was harder. It's just maybe it's harder because we traveled there, a little bit of jet lag. I think I think Matt's personality, like I don't know Just what I know of the time we've spent round him with him. I think he likes to push everybody real hard. I think he's one of those very high performers that like wants to push everybody. So yeah, I think he's not demonically, but he just likes creating these really tough stages. the shooting was a little bit different because they don't they don't really have anything past 300. and so again, comparing that back to the other foreigners that came into the country, even we had American. Marathon mover, I I don't know if you know what those are where it's like pop-up man-sized targets and once you hit them so many times they drop. Trent: Okay. Kelly & Jon: And it gives somebody feedback on an iPad. so it tells you what you're hitting and it gives you your score, your percentage of scores and whatever. but when they announced it was like two hundred and fifty yards, you see everybody's eyes light up because people don't they have to shoot that far. You know. Most of these guys their ranges are like hundred-yard ranges. And so my god, two hundred and fifty, three hundred yards, that's so far. You know. And here here we have that. Trent: All right. Okay. Like, I'm gonna win this one. Kelly & Jon: Yeah, here we go out to my local range and you know, I mean we can shoot out to twelve hundred, you know, pretty consistently. Yeah. So you're just like it's just such an interesting culture shock, but yes, I I I found the stages super fun over there. Of course we were shooting teams and so we had I mean obviously we're on vacation, we're having a blast, we're eating and drinking all this cool food and they're just having a fun time, so I think it just made it that much more fun. So Trent: That's legit. I love that. Kelly & Jon: I didn't. Trent: That's great. So when it came to the stages, how many stages did you guys have for the teams? Kelly & Jon: everything tactical games always in. So even if everyone does the same. Unless it's nationals and then it's three days and twelve stages. So every time they Trent: Always eight stages. Okay. Got it. Got it. So and it so the the teams is just a version of the individual workouts, or how do they how do they stack that up? Kelly & Jon: Wha whatever they create for individuals, they usually write under it on the stage description, they have the breakdown of how it's being broken up for teams. And so they they'll give you a little bit of a different briefing for that after they've given the individual briefing. but there's usually some variation of how you are working the stage, or like partner one might shoot, and then partner two has to do the penalty work. If it's a penalty, you shoot stage. And so they break it up that way. Individuals would Still do this stuff, they just have to do it all themselves. Yeah. Trent: Got it. That's that that's awesome. So when it comes to when you're when you're competing team, right? what is the best part about competing team? And we know like, you know, when we compete in team, you're like, these ones, those are yours and things like that. But like what are what what's the best part about competing with the team? Kelly & Jon: All right. Trent: Or on the team, sorry. Kelly & Jon: When you have a great when you have a great stage and you're like, Hell yeah, we did that. We just crushed that stage, you know, we did great. Or I mean even if you don't have a great stage and then you know, one teammate can kinda pump up the other one like, Hey, you know what, whatever, it's fine. You know, we're still in it, no one got hurt. On to the next one, you know, and then kinda like take the other person out of their funk. I mean, sometimes that has to happen too, but just you know, when you have great communication and you've planned out a stage together and you're able to execute it that way, that's what I think's pretty cool. I like that. Yeah, I think to her point, like sometimes Trent: I love it. Kelly & Jon: Going through it with somebody else. I mean, for me, like obviously I try and create a stage plan for every stage that I shoot, going into it. When you are s shooting with somebody else, obviously you start figuring out that and communicating how we should do it together or who's gonna be where or how that's gonna play out. or like in Poland, she shot a perfectly clean stage on one stage on a penalty, so I had to do zero penalties. And being an asshole, I I dropped two pistol shots since she had Trent: way to go, you know? Kelly & Jon: I'm but a what a jerk, but well but sometimes there's strategy to it. So on this stage it they had this they built like this multi-level kind of rig type thing, so the penalty was you had to do like a big weave through it and I'm five three, he's six three. So it was like listen, how about I shoot the pistol, it's closer, you can shoot the rifle, I know I can hit you know the pistol target, no problem. And there was a chest press strength er also involved in it. But it's like, you know, if someone has to do penalties, I'm smaller, I can crawl through these easier. So why don't I you know, take the pistol and so on and so forth, and that's actually how it ended up playing out. I was able to hit all the pistol targets so he didn't have to do any of the weeds and yeah, okay, I had to do two, but it was like, I don't know, no big deal for me. You can play the strengths on teams, right? So like I like heavy bags and I'm tall. So pushing a two hundred pound bag over a tall bar, yeah, I'm gonna do those and you know, you can work some of the lighter bags and push them over you know, you just constantly juggle back and forth those strengths. and weaknesses whereas individuals it's if you can't pick something up you're just shit out of them. Trent: Yeah. Love that. You just get a stare at it. You're like, this is cool. I like so this lives on the ground and this is me staring at it. Kelly & Jon: I've watched that a couple times with other competitors. a lot of the wall gets a lot of people. so it's like a six six footish wall. And I was at Nationals one year and they had a wall and the guy just we ended up having a conversation for about fifteen minutes because he's like he tried three or four times and he's like, Yes, I'm done. I yeah, I can't go over the wall. And the wall is the Trent: Mm. Well, this is it. Yeah. Kelly & Jon: You know, there are certain things, you know, a two hundred or two hundred fifty pound bag, or they have door breach in Poland, or sometimes they'll have a wall. those are those interesting things if that's the entry to the stage and you can't do it. Trent: Mm-hmm. That's it. Yeah. Kelly & Jon: That's his. But you should also walk away and go, Okay, I'm building a frickin' wall. And I guess what? All week, every week. You know, heave myself over this wall until I can like almost jump. Trent: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah. Kelly & Jon: And clear the freaking wall, you know, I mean that's what you should do. But yeah, I think that communication, that's where it's fun coming up with stage plans and like I'm left handed and she's right handed, so you can even plan out like, so my brass out of my rifle ejects to the left. It's like okay, you shoot on the right, I'll shoot on the left and we're shoot you know, we're not shooting rats at each other and so it's it's kind of a fun dynamic shooting teams. Yeah. Trent: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. That's awesome. Yeah, that's really cool. That's really, really cool. So Kelly & Jon: And even bickering sometimes is fun. Not that I ever bicker with my wife pre stage or after, but you know. Never. Never happens. Or even on a stage in Utah. Yeah. Trent: Ever. so So let's talk let's talk about Idaho a little bit. when you were going into Idaho, what was one of the stages that you were looking forward to the most? Kelly & Jon: Mm-hmm. so you don't you know, I didn't know the stages until what Friday night. Yeah. then, you know, once I saw the stages, I'm like, okay, I knew there there was a ruck run, so I was you know, I'm not really a runner, but I I've been working really hard at running, so I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna push on that. and it was like you run down this hill, turn around. Basically you were running four four hundreds down a hill and then back up. with your weighted vest and that ruck, and every time you hit the top of the hill you added another ten or twenty pounds based on whatever part of the stage you were at. And so I worked really hard. I was surprising surprisingly enough I was looking for a twelve run, which I and then there was a couple bag workouts and I just again I like moving bags. so it's like thirty thirty hundred twenty five pound bags for time over a bar. You go Trent: Mm-hmm. Okay. Kelly & Jon: Bag goes under over, you go under, and you just do that until you're freaking done. So that's a pretty good state. Yep. Trent: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've been I've been writing a lot of workouts, say same kind of th shit. Pick it up, put over a thing, do some shit, climb under it, whatever, blah, blah, blah. they they're getting funner and funner, I'll tell you that right now. so how did you shit the bed on the first workout? Like what what what happened there? And like how did you switch your mindset to come back and be like, Wow, I'm gonna kick ass now. Kelly & Jon: well yeah, I wish I had totally kicked ass, but I I still stumbled. so the first stage was a spinner workout. It was an aggregate shoot, it was rifle first and then you run up and and shoot the same spinner pistol. so if you guys whoever's listening, if you haven't shot shot spinners, go figure out how to shoot spinners. So I went prone for my first rifle spinner and I sent my first shot and it was a hit. And then I got myself out of position and I knew I was out of position. I was just not stable on my rifle and I I was kinda moving around and I sent a few shots and I'm like finally I have to stop and go, What am I doing? Like I'm sending shots not in position. so I burned about ten seconds, like just Burning shots. And then I got back on target, spun it within like four rounds, and then I ran up to shoot pistol, and I shot the pistol and spun it pretty clean. but at that point I I think it was like fifty-two seconds on that stage. and the majority of my group was in the forties, so I'm like wr you know, right out of the gate on my first stage, that puts me right in the mid to lower part of my division. and then I don't remember what the second stage was. I don't remember either. I just remembered. I don't know, I was so irritated about it because I was still irrit I was irritated myself on the first stage knowing that I was out of position and still sending a few shots. You know, that's again part of not just sending things is you know, thinking through the process of going, okay, if I'm in a bad position, stop, get in a better position, and then shoot clean. My second, I think was freestanding rifle, which I think I've told you I that's not my my best shooting position. so I I kind of didn't shoot as well as I'd hoped there. I think it dropped like nineteen out of fifty shots or something. it is. Trent: That shit's hard. Standing rifle is hard. I'm just saying. If people don't know that Kelly & Jon: And then like as you forget Yeah, yeah, as you get more and more fatigued, right? Like your shooting gets worse. And so after the second stage, I'm like I'm texting her, I'm like, I totally should bed, I think I've ruined this entire weekend. Like I was pretty irritated myself and then you know, I I just had to like sit back and and go, Okay, I mean I have a I'm shooting a ton of tactical games this year. I'm doing this to have fun. Trent: Mm-hmm. Kelly & Jon: I I'm gonna shoot poorly on some stuff. It's just inevitable. Like you can't shoot everything perfectly clean. I wish I could. and I said, well, you know what? I'm just gonna have fun the rest of the weekend and I again I I didn't have any delusions of hitting a podium or anything. And I think I went out on the run and I just barely missed first stage win on the run. So in my vision anyway, so Then I just spent the rest of the weekend having a good time and I placed pretty well, but you know, again, I just missed third place putting by about ten points and it was the percentage that I lost on seconds on stage one and stage two that kinda put me right under there. You know, that's the learning lesson and now you come home and run more, do more, you know, shoot more, more freestanding shit. Yeah. Trent: Mm. Hell yeah. And I mean that that's an awesome placing, you know? And it's it sounds like as soon as you start having fun, you're like, yeah, wait, this is this isn't gonna go so bad, you know? That's pretty cool. Kelly, did you give him a little pep talk when he was texting you? Kelly & Jon: Well I did I had to text and I'm like, you what? It's our what's happened has happened. You're done with those stages, so just you know, forget it, which of course is easy for me to say. it's not me and I'm not there. But it's like, listen, just forget about it, focus on what you have to do for the next one and just figure it out. Like you're fine. You you're fine. Trent: Right. Kelly & Jon: And of course I'm looking at practice scores, seeing where he's standing. You know, that's something that I don't like to do throughout the weekend. I don't want to know how we're doing. I don't know where. I don't want to know where I'm place. That's just gonna add stress to it. And he was kind of he's kind of the same way. But since, you know, I wasn't there, I was looking and I'm like, okay, he's not doing too bad. you know, he's in force, so it's gonna be okay. And so, yeah, you know, I just kinda pet talk to him and then when he texted me like, I almost made a stage win, I'm like, Okay, all right, he's back in the game. All right. So Trent: Mm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. yeah. Kelly & Jon: It's a roller coaster remote. Trent: Of course. Just just like literally everything, you know? Like if you care about it, it should be a roller coaster of emotions. If you didn't care about it, you'd be like, Well, maybe I don't need to do this all the time. so Kelly & Jon: Let me tell you on that ro just the roller coaster of emotion, w I had a really bad stage in Poland, the running stage, and I was just like, I fell, I injured my Achilles, like I barely made the time cap with like one second to spare. We're in the car and I'm just like losing my mind. And he's like, Do you need to just do a primal scream? Like, just let it all out and I'm like, Yeah. And I did, I was just like, it's fine. Yeah, you know? Trent: Do it. Love it. That support right there. You know? That is that is support. I love that. Kelly & Jon: Yeah. I did plug my ears. She's she can do that very loud, yes. I I really don't want to make her very angry. A lot of feelings sometimes in these vents, what can I say? Trent: You're like, wow that you know, that was much louder than I thought it was gonna be. So what i when is the next time you're both competing? Kelly & Jon: August we are going back overseas to Rome. Well, they call it Rome, it's about an hour and a half north in a little town called Terri. But yeah. Yep, we're gonna do teams there. We try to work out most of the time together. Trent: Yeah. Hell yeah. Okay. That's amazing. I love that. and then what's training look like when you guys are training for doing teams? Does it change at all from what you're doing individually, or do you guys like work out all the time together? Kelly & Jon: if we're training in I I mean a lot of our workouts just because it keeps us both I think more motivated like we try to set up like partner workouts. So it's like Even though we may not be stopping while the partner is working out, we try to set up things where it's like, okay, well, I'm doing burpees, you're doing a s a sandbag carry, and then we'll switch over to some other implement. Or if you're doing rope climbs, then I have to do burpees until both your rope climbs are done. So we try to set up those workouts so that it's I don't know if we like consciously ever have talked about it, but I think it we just naturally do it because it keeps us communicating while we're working out. And then it's motivating because it's like, well shit, she's already getting the second rope climb done and I am not I've only done 10 burpees, you know, or whatever. And so it's just that natural. Yeah, I think one of the things that like to me that gets lost when you don't go to like a CrossFit gym anymore is you don't have that competitive nature. And that is that was one of my favorite things, right? You you go to these gyms, you know the same people, you usually find the people that are kind of at your fitness level. Trent: Yeah, I need to get moving. Kelly & Jon: And then you're you're in that little back and forth. Like you just kinda you're like, okay, I want to see if I can edge you out on this workout or whatever. I called it my gym nemesis. Yeah. You know, and it it was always fun. So you just you kinda lose that when you don't when you're doing your own home stuff. so I think this is our way to just kind of com keep the communication going, but also kind of push each other. Yes. So Trent: Mm-hmm. Hell yeah. It's great. Kelly & Jon: That is hard. It is hard sometimes to work out by yourself and keep yourself motivated to like push hard. Or like our kill sprints this morning. It was just like one person started going and we're like, well shit, I guess we're not resting after that. You wanna rest ten more seconds or go? I'm like, let's go. Let's go. Trent: no. no, I I I think that I think that's super great. having the discipline to do things like that, that's that's super cool. So what have you noticed about the tactical games community compared to other communities that you've been a part of, like CrossFit or Strongman or or anything like that? Have you noticed any difference? Kelly & Jon: Three. Yeah, there's a pretty huge difference to me. a lot of the competition type stuff that I've done, whether it was like to me triathlons or strong men, you meet a lot of really cool people, right? But like everybody's very they're doing what they're doing to win. I I f I feel like. whereas I would say the tactical games, you meet people and it seems like everybody there that's there competitively. wants to see you do well and will push you and and help you in any way, shape, or form, or if you're missing gear. so when I back to New Mexico, my very first event, right? I get one, I miss most of the briefings, which is horrible. I was like so stressed out about having the right gear and having all the shit. And so I'm like missing briefings. And on one side of me was this guy named Andy and he was a swift boat guy in the Navy. And on the other side a guy named Joey who's like pro shooteries. I'm lining up and I'm like, what the frick am I doing here, right? But both of them like just totally they just helped me through the weekend. Everything I could I was unsure about or if I didn't know if I had the right gear or like they were everybody was just so inviting and like To this day, if I was missing something, I I guarantee ten people would come out of the woodwork to to find you a thing, whether it's you know, magazines or like even I was on a stage in Idaho and some a guy walked up and he was like, dude, I'm like five rounds short. I don't know how I counted five rounds short. And it's like, Well, I gotta pull box of ammo here, take five you know, it's little things where this community just and we saw it a lot in in Poland, like one of the competitors showed up and her bags were stuck at Warsaw. and the the airport in Warsaw is like, Yeah, don't she's like, I see my air tags and and they're like, Yeah, don't come here, we don't care. So Trent: D it d don't even come here. Kelly & Jon: Yeah, she's like texted her and like she's you know, she's asking like what do I do? And it's like, Okay, go find yourself clothing 'cause nobody can really help you with that. But here's location of a sporting goods store. And then pretty much by the time she was done traveling there to get clothing, a bunch of people come in hey, I've got extra magazines, hey I've got an extra belt, the range had an extra tack vest. Like everybody threw stuff together. Everybody had their stuff and like basically within hours she had everything she needed for the weekend. Yeah. Trent: that's so cool. Kelly & Jon: Right. And I you know, you don't know that going in. But like again, back to this New Mexico where I was totally out of my depth shooting party against these guys that clearly have been shooting for 20 years in competitions, and I'm like, holy shit. And they're basically walking me through stages and and helping me out and like, hey, try this next time or work on that, you know, maybe maybe do this the next stage. And nobody wants to see you fail, and I think Trent: Right. Mm-hmm. Kelly & Jon: One of my favorite things about going out to the tactical games, so even like back to Idaho this weekend, one of the guys thought I was irritated that I wasn't so he was in third and we were camp we were kind of set up right next to each other. he he thought I wasn't like irritated that I wasn't gonna podium. He beat me by ten points and I'm like, I'm not irritated. I shot against you at your best. We had a great weekend. I just need to train frickin' harder. And everybody out there is there to see you succeed and wants you to shoot at your best and and perform at your best. And where whereas a lot of other sports it's kinda like it's not solo. Everybody's out there doing their own thing and they don't they're not necessarily there to help you. They're not there to give you points. Yeah, you know, and you see it like I'm sure even to CrossFit competitions, everybody kinda stays with the group and does their thing and has their people and you know here I in tech games I don't think there's people. I think there's just a bunch of competitors that wanna do their best for other people and help other people succeed. I think that's pretty pretty awesome. Trent: That is that is so awesome. Cause like, I mean, even at some e even at some most carosser gyms, honestly, like, you know, there's clicks and it's like people, you know, they're there to compete, even if it's a class, and it's like it it's not my jam. Like I wanna I wanna be there to help people, I wanna support people, I wanna I wanna do all those things. Like I think I think that's super cool. Kelly, what do you feel about the community? Kelly & Jon: I mean, it's same thing, you said it perfectly. Everyone is super friendly. you know, by the end of the weekend the squad, you know, usually you see all these squad pictures that get taken because, you know, everyone's, you know, in the stuck together, so to speak, and, you know, doing these workouts together and just cheering each other on and You know, he'd mentioned earlier, after you get done with your stage you have to stay on and you have to h judge the next people. And, you know, I've been judging people where I'm like screaming for them, cheering for them, even if they're in my same division, because, you know, I mean that's just I don't know, that's just feeling of the event, like, let's go, you can do this. Here's a tip, here's a trick, try this, like get after it. You know, I If I'm competing against someone, I want to compete against them, you know, at their best, you know, to see how I stack up, right? So yeah, it's just yeah, I don't know, it's very friendly, very open, welcoming community. Yeah. Mm-mm. Right. And to find it a to find it a shooting range, isn't that the weird like Trent: I love that. That's so great. Like, there's not enough of that in the world anymore, honestly. People are just like blinders on. They're like, I worry, I care about me and only me. Right. That's it's just mm. That's not the world I live in. Right. Kelly & Jon: Yeah, you wouldn't think so. I've done all these things. I worked for Fire for twenty years. I didn't really find that there. I did all these other competitions. I never found it there. I'm in a frickin' range in the middle of Idaho and that's where I find you know? Yeah. That's what's cool about it to me, you know. Trent: And people talk so much shit about guns. Hmm, you know? What the hell? Kelly & Jon: Yeah, and I to that note, I have never felt more c you know, you walk around this place and I this is a total weird offshoot. When I first started the tactical games, I mean I live in the middle of Phoenix and so like I lock everything and my gates are locked, shut up and security and all this shit. I swear to God, you walk around the tactical games, everybody's trunk is open. I mean, there is guns everywhere. I've never felt so safe leaving stuff sit, you know, and you're you're talking thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars worth of guns scattered throughout this whole range. They're just there. And you know, these people are for the most part so honest. Trent: Right. Mm-hmm. Kelly & Jon: It's just like, yeah, you know, like we're here to help. Yeah, I know. It is it is a very cool environment. They have set that up very well. Trent: That's really cool. It g it gives me it gives me hope for humanity again. You know what I mean? Cause it's like, man, like shit has fallen off in so many ways, for sure. Guys, I think I think that we covered all of the things. you have an operator thing coming up. tell me about the the operator competition you got coming up. Kelly & Jon: yeah. so it's called the Total Operator Challenge and it's put on by Kirk Holmer who he used to do so I met Kirk He used to do all the tune-ups for the tactical games and he used to compete those 10 weekends. So he'd do the tune up for everybody on Friday and then he would compete. And one he's an amazing competitor and has podium a ton of times and he but more so he's he's always been a really amazing instructor. And so I just kind of always followed him. And he started a thing called the Total Operator Challenge. And so this is the very first event. It's in Utah at the farm training center. And basically the way it's set up right now, because you know it's new and it's smaller. it sounds like most of us are all shooting it in a one day format. So I will be shooting ten stages on Friday in two weeks. That's a lot of stages. eight of are physical stages, and then two of them are what he's calling field craft. And we have no idea what I I don't know if I'm gonna be like whittling sticks to start fire or if I like Trent: Okay. That's a lot of stages. Kelly & Jon: Building a fucking TP or doing some sort of thing. I don't know. I don't know. Weaving Trent: Yeah. I was just saying making a making a hammock out of some wood. Kelly & Jon: a wicker hat, I have no idea. Like to keep my yes. And so I was like, when I saw it, I'm like, one, he has given me more shooting tips than most people I know. and is just a really good person. So anybody that's listening should figure out how to either sign up or follow him and do the next one or whatever. Trent: I love this. That's awesome. Kelly & Jon: I will be giving feedback at some point somehow, some way, about my experience with it 'cause I'm I'm I'm excited about it. but he's just I decided to see the stages. he I Trent: Hell yeah. Kelly & Jon: I feel like he set up a lot of longer range stages in the past in attack games. I don't know for sure. but some of my favorite stages were him as an RO when he was ROing. And they're usually the long range things. so pretty excited about it. I'm excited to see what this fieldcraft thing is about. Like I don't I have no idea what I'm gonna be doing in a couple weeks. Trent: yeah. This is gonna be dope. I'm gonna I'm gonna follow along because like this sounds really, really cool. And I'll put I'll put some links in the show notes and stuff like that. That that that is definitely cool. Kelly & Jon: It's so weird, right? Or just figuring out how to do ten frickin' stages in one day. Like I am Trent: That is l that I feel like the fatigue level is going to be high. Yeah. Kelly & Jon: it's I'd be so good. So you have to have everything you need for the day with you, so Yeah, it's so it's not structured, so I I I started a mammoth challenge if you know what that is. We me and my partner didn't make it this year because of an injured his, but same premise where you carry your gear, not to that extreme. but yeah, it's you're not really going back to your car for anything, so whatever rifle. Trent: So you're taking all your rounds, all of the gear that you need, everything for the whole day. Kelly & Jon: That's that's what he said. Snacks, food, camel, guns, clothing, water. I don't think. Trent: Okay. That shit That shit sounds fun. Like, yeah, give me that hard thing. I'll do that hard thing till till I die. Like Kelly & Jon: Yeah. If you want something hard, have you ever looked up the mammoth challenge? Okay, so I we try again, we me and my partner tried to do it this year. It wasn't Kelly. I've been trying to get her to do it for years now. I said no. so it's a three day event and you carry literally everything. So your all your weapons all your ammo, camping gear, food, they provide water. Trent: Uh-uh. Okay. Kelly & Jon: but every day it's basically roughly six miles in and six miles out and you're not allowed to touch your car. You'll get disqualified if you go back to your car. mammoth mammoth one is three straight days where you go campsite to campsite. but in the middle of the day, so for mammoth two, basically you shoot five stages a day after you've rucked your six miles with all your seventy-something pounds. Shoot your five stages, ruck back camp. this year just happened to be a I don't know. Trent: Okay. Kelly & Jon: If saw those thunderstorms a few months ago when I shot it, it was like just torrential down for it. It was freaking amazing. It was amazing until we didn't make a run time. So yeah. Good luck, it's deep. It's yes, it is quite high. It's obsessive. Yep. Trent: Yeah. Right. Tha that that sounds epic. Like I'm gonna I have a whole new whole new YouTube hole to fall down, so that's cool. Yeah, I I mean I g I love a good YouTube wormhole to fall into. I'm not gonna lie. Yeah, for sure. like I'm on YouTube watching stuff about tactical games and shooting and how do I get better, blah, blah, blah. All the all the time. Because it's fun. That's why. you guys, I cannot thank you enough for hanging out with me for almost an hour and a half. such good stuff. Kelly & Jon: Yeah. Yeah. Trent: I'm gonna get this episode up probably in probably the next 10 days. Okay, I got one more that I gotta put up and then I'll I'll get your guys' up. is there anything you wanna add? Is there anything that any way you you want anybody to get a hold of you if they have questions or anything like that? I can put your Instagrams in there if you want me to, or I can put some emails. Kelly & Jon: Yeah, sure. I mean we're both on Instagram. Yeah. Yeah, you're welcome to do whatever. If people have questions, I'm always more than happy to answer questions from my limited knowledge. I do get a lot of questions from people from different videos and stuff I put up just like even in my training. So yeah. Yeah, someone that's easier. Let if you need you ever need anything, let us know. I mean Trent: Okay. Yeah. Mm. Awesome. Yeah. I will put your contact info there. What's that? you guys are you guys are stuck with me for good. I don't know if you know that, but that's what's gonna happen. I'm like, hey, I need all the help. 'cause yeah, because John, you're in the forty plus, right? Kelly & Jon: I I'm excited. I'm excited to hear which event you're signing up for. That's what I'm thinking about. sort of. I'm bouncing around. I might I might switch to a lead in Montana. I shot a I shot a team elite in Texas this year and and got worked. And we still qualify for nationals. but Trent: Okay. Nice. Hell yeah. Kelly & Jon: Obsessed with this idea of trying to shoot at least again for whatever reason. yeah. And then so the interesting thing about forty plus is you have a lot of very, very proficient shooters. It is in Trent: I love that. Yeah. Good for you. 'Cause I'm forty four, so it's like we'd be in the same we'd be in the same category. So that would be fun. Kelly & Jon: Incredible to watch the amount of they're either guys that weren't elite or pro shooters or just guys that were military operators for twenty years and just can frickin' shoot. And that goes the same for the women's forty. They are beasts. It's crazy. It's insane. Like even this in Idaho Trent: Mm. Kelly & Jon: I think two of the women's categories shot perfect scores, which means two of two of them basically won every stage. And therefore they got a hundred percent every stage score. And I'm like, I I don't even know if I've heard of that before. I'm sure it's happened. But two two people at one event just destroyed every event. Wow. Yes. Trent: All right. That's l that's legit. I I think that's super cool. Yeah. Like I want to learn from all the operators and everybody. I'm like, hey, just just teach me how to be better. That's all I want. Kelly & Jon: So the one guy I shoot next to, he shoots in tactical now 'cause whatever. But I I knew I was in trouble 'cause, you know, we have some pretty nice guns and stuff. Like I built a lot of guns and then our pistols are custom built pistols. He frickin' destroys me with a block. You know, and he's been destroying me with the same stock block. Yeah. Trent: You're like, thanks, man. Kelly & Jon: Man, all this mechanical advantage in these shooting a seven dollar block. But he's probably shooting thousands upon thousands of rounds. yeah, you know he's got ten plus thousand rounds downrange. Gotta gotta drive the rounds. So Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much. yeah. Trent: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's not the toys. It's the skill or something like that. So I guess somebody said sometime. Exactly. again, thank you guys so much. You guys are very, very awesome. I really, really appreciate it. And I will be definitely reaching out you ro out to you for some Kelly & Jon: Right. Trent: questions and things like that. And as soon as I figure out when we're gonna do this, I will let you guys know and hopefully we're the same one. Hell yeah. All right, guys. I hope you have an awesome rest of your weekend and we'll chat soon. All right. Have a great one. All right. Bye. Kelly & Jon: Yeah, that'd be cool. Absolutely. Thanks having us on. Absolutely. Good rest of the week.