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The Fantastic Miss Piggy Podcast - Episode 3: Very Cute & Extremely Dangerous · Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com

• 0:00
  It's 1977 and they're starting the second season of The Muppet
• 0:03
  Show, and the Muppet Ensemble has a character who became
• 0:06
  unexpectedly popular last year and they want to feature her
• 0:08
  more on the show. We talked in the last episode of
• 0:10
  this podcast about Miss Piggy's rapid development in the first
• 0:13
  season from a simple one joke character to a fully fleshed out
• 0:17
  three joke character, and the audience really responded to it.
• 0:20
  So they want a regular spot on the show for Piggy, and what
• 0:23
  they do is they put her in a tin can, they shoot her out into
• 0:26
  space, and they ask her to do the laundry like multiple times.
• 0:31
  I can't give you anything but love, baby.
• 0:39
  That's the only thing I have plenty of, baby.
• 0:46
  Kissy, kissy and welcome to another episode of the fantastic
• 0:49
  Miss Piggy Podcast. I'm Danny Horn and this podcast
• 0:52
  chronicles my journey to learn everything there is to know
• 0:54
  about that divine swine, the incomparable Miss Piggy.
• 0:57
  Today we are talking about pigs in space, and my first mate for
• 1:01
  the day is the indomitable Jared Faircloth from Muppet fan site
• 1:04
  Tough Pigs and the interview podcast to introduce our guest
• 1:07
  star. Hello, Jared.
• 1:09
  Hello, Danny. Are you, like, are you, like,
• 1:12
  the grandfather of tough pigs? That's not to make you feel old.
• 1:16
  No, it's that that does too. You know, when you get old, you
• 1:18
  actually don't need stuff to make you feel old.
• 1:20
  You just feel it all the time. Sorry, Sorry.
• 1:23
  Yeah. No, I I I started tough pigs
• 1:25
  back in 2001 and and ran it for several.
• 1:30
  Years. I was 12.
• 1:31
  Does that make you feel old? Always do all.
• 1:35
  Right, Great. And then passed it on to to Ryan
• 1:39
  and Joe. And now a whole bunch of people
• 1:41
  have joined. And you joined when when you
• 1:44
  were part of the Muppet mindset. So I was part of the Muppet
• 1:47
  mindset, and then I was sort of I would occasionally do stuff
• 1:50
  for tough pigs every now and then.
• 1:52
  Then I took over my mindset in 2015 and then I somehow weaseled
• 1:58
  my way into Tough Pigs. And so mark of Mindset is no
• 2:01
  more weaseled my way in and and I've taken over the taken over
• 2:06
  the beast. But I'm excited to be here and
• 2:08
  to talk about Miss Piggy. Hooray.
• 2:10
  I'm super excited that you're here.
• 2:11
  Now, something we do at the start of the podcast is to say
• 2:13
  something nice about Miss Piggy, which I think every podcast
• 2:16
  should do. I don't know why they don't.
• 2:17
  Absolutely. So, Jared, I will.
• 2:19
  I'll ask you like, what's a favorite Miss Piggy moment for
• 2:21
  you? So I.
• 2:23
  Had a couple in mind that that popped to mind when you said,
• 2:27
  you know, this is how I'd like to start the podcast.
• 2:31
  The first one was Miss Piggy and Raquel Welsh singing woman.
• 2:36
  That's a good I'm a Woman, which is a great song.
• 2:39
  And when Raquel passed away early this year, I think it was,
• 2:45
  I don't know why, but the Australian news media used that
• 2:48
  clip in every single news story and they wouldn't just play like
• 2:52
  2 seconds of it, they play like a good 1520 seconds of it.
• 2:55
  And so it's just The Muppet Show on Australian television for 20
• 2:59
  seconds, which was nice, but that's a nice classic sketch.
• 3:03
  And then the other one was Miss Piggy's, basically the whole
• 3:08
  episode of the 2015 series with Reese Witherspoon, where she has
• 3:12
  to apologize because, like, I was watching that.
• 3:14
  And granted, it's hard to talk about character development when
• 3:17
  it comes to The Muppets, although we're.
• 3:20
  We're gonna, yeah, we're gonna spend the next little while
• 3:22
  doing exactly that, but yeah. Which we're gonna, which we're
• 3:24
  gonna have a conversation about anyway.
• 3:26
  But, but just watching her character development,
• 3:30
  especially in the later years, you know, there's there's the
• 3:34
  case of Flanderization, which is the word I use a lot when it
• 3:36
  comes to The Muppets. So that show, I was really
• 3:39
  worried in those first few episodes that, oh, they're just
• 3:41
  caricatures of themselves and then and Piggy is so easy to
• 3:46
  make a caricature of herself. And again, I don't want to dive
• 3:49
  too far into that because that's the whole conversation's going
• 3:53
  to be about. But that episode I was like it
• 3:57
  was, it was much needed character development where she
• 3:59
  cries and she apologizes and yes, OK, she does end that
• 4:02
  episode with saying like, I win. I'm the best apologizer ever.
• 4:06
  But, but, but she apologized that that's not something Piggy
• 4:10
  ever really does anymore. That was a really nice moment.
• 4:13
  That was me going like, oh, OK, all right.
• 4:15
  Maybe we can still get some sort of development out of these
• 4:17
  characters? Well, it's really beautiful,
• 4:19
  yeah. And that was, I think that was
• 4:20
  the promise of that of that sitcom was that that would
• 4:23
  happen. I love that, that moment just
• 4:26
  because it's. I think I was waiting for
• 4:28
  musical numbers to find their way into that show.
• 4:31
  And so to end with a big Miss Piggy musical number that's
• 4:34
  actually funny and cool. I enjoyed that a lot.
• 4:37
  Yeah, that's a fantastic. Moment.
• 4:38
  And also very, very well made. Yeah, like I've watched that
• 4:42
  thing like multiple times just to see if you can figure out
• 4:46
  where the hell Eric is in that entire situation and you cannot
• 4:49
  see him at all. Yeah, no, he's behind all these
• 4:52
  other dancers, Yeah. It's yeah, obviously it's such a
• 4:55
  green outfit. It's very, very impressive.
• 4:58
  Well, today we're talking about The Muppet Show.
• 5:00
  Second season for Miss Piggy. Where they know she's a popular
• 5:03
  character and they're trying to figure out ways to put more
• 5:05
  focus on the character. One of those is this regular
• 5:08
  sketch called Pigs in Space. It's a science fiction sketch,
• 5:11
  kind of a loose parody of Star Trek that takes place entirely
• 5:13
  on the ship's bridge. So therefore it's the more
• 5:17
  boring part of Star Trek. They never boldly go anywhere.
• 5:20
  It's mostly just three characters squabbling with each
• 5:22
  other over mostly domestic issues.
• 5:24
  And Jared, you really like pigs in space.
• 5:27
  I do like Pigs in Space. I it.
• 5:29
  It's probably my favorite segment from the market show.
• 5:32
  There was there has been talks of me trying to figure out how
• 5:36
  to do a Pigs in Space podcast. I can't figure out what that
• 5:38
  looks like. This might be me dipping my toes
• 5:41
  in I guess. And we'll see if I can figure
• 5:43
  out a way to make it work. Yeah.
• 5:45
  It's episode one. But I I love Pigs in Space.
• 5:48
  I think it's it's it's an interesting format in that, you
• 5:52
  know, Piggy's a straight like the straight guy in it.
• 5:55
  But then she's also not. It's I, I I love Link Hulk
• 6:00
  throb. I think he's an idiot, but in
• 6:01
  the world's best way. Yeah.
• 6:03
  And I like the fact that that sketch has kept popping up over
• 6:05
  the years. That's that segment.
• 6:08
  Like through throughout The Muppet Show and then also like
• 6:10
  more. Show then afterwards.
• 6:12
  Yeah, like they did a couple of sketches of years ago.
• 6:14
  They did the, like the O2 show had, you know, Doctor Who, which
• 6:17
  is one of my favorite things in the world as well.
• 6:19
  Yeah. So yeah, it's just like, I'm
• 6:21
  never upset to see pigs in space, right?
• 6:24
  And it's kind of, it's the one sketch where they pretend like
• 6:27
  there's a narrative. It's really the only thing like
• 6:30
  that on the show. Like the show doesn't do kind of
• 6:32
  continuing narrative from episode to episode.
• 6:35
  But for those two minutes that pigs and spaces on, they at
• 6:37
  least pretend that this is like coming from somewhere and
• 6:40
  leading into something else. This is part of a larger story.
• 6:43
  And so it's really unique for the for The Muppet Show.
• 6:46
  You're right. I don't think there's and things
• 6:48
  occasionally will relate to old pigs in space sketches, not
• 6:53
  often because again, there's talk, talk about laundry, as you
• 6:56
  said, they ask her to do multiple times.
• 6:59
  They actually sort of lead into each other a little bit, even
• 7:01
  though they're like 10 episodes apart, right.
• 7:04
  So I don't think they were meant to lead into each other, but
• 7:07
  they they do. It's just an interesting
• 7:09
  concept. And and I never watched, you
• 7:11
  know, Star Trek. I've never, I don't think I've
• 7:14
  ever watched an episode of Star Trek.
• 7:15
  The closest I've come is I've watched like a season and a half
• 7:17
  of The Orville because it's on Disney Plus.
• 7:20
  But my parents, like, my mum, is a massive Trekkie, which she hid
• 7:24
  from me for like 30 years. And then she's like, Oh yeah, I
• 7:26
  never wanted to tell anyone because that was like, thought
• 7:28
  it was nerdy. But now she absolutely loves it
• 7:30
  and my dad loved it and yeah, and I don't know why she was
• 7:33
  embarrassed. I mean I have a Muppet website
• 7:36
  and. I have a Muppet tattoo.
• 7:37
  And it's like you you do you mum, like you enjoy yourself.
• 7:41
  We've, we've left, we've left that, that version of dignity
• 7:43
  behind a long time ago. 100% I don't think I ever had it.
• 7:48
  Do you want to talk about the characters a little bit?
• 7:50
  Of course. Let's talk about Link Hogthrob,
• 7:52
  First Mate Piggy is obviously sort of carried over from
• 7:54
  before, but Pigs in Space has created these two new characters
• 7:57
  to be part of Pigs in Space. So Captain Link Hogthrob is a
• 8:00
  parody of basically like Captain Kirk from Star Trek where he's
• 8:04
  arrogant and super self involved, incredibly stupid and
• 8:08
  completely incompetent. That's that and I relate.
• 8:12
  He's always got kind of like the wrong end of of whatever the
• 8:14
  problem is and something that is that becomes really difficult
• 8:17
  for her. Miss Piggy I think is she has to
• 8:19
  be subordinate to this like that's that's kind of the
• 8:22
  tension of the pigs in space sketches is that she's supposed
• 8:26
  to be following this leader and and for a little while in the
• 8:29
  ones we're we're going to talk about she actually believes that
• 8:31
  for a minute that she's supposed to follow this guy.
• 8:34
  It does not work out well. No.
• 8:36
  And. And it was interesting watching
• 8:38
  these. I watched these last nights,
• 8:40
  like one after the other. Yeah.
• 8:42
  And, like, it's amazing going from like the first episode of
• 8:46
  Pigs in Space to the last one I watched at the end of the
• 8:49
  season. They are two different Miss
• 8:52
  Piggies. Absolutely.
• 8:53
  Yeah. And the.
• 8:54
  The the two different ways that she relates to these two
• 8:57
  characters. Yeah.
• 8:58
  And you're right. It's interesting.
• 8:59
  You sort of seeing Miss Piggy be a little bit, you know, what's
• 9:03
  the word? Not even intimidated by Link but
• 9:06
  sort of having to answer to him and believing that it's really
• 9:10
  interesting to sort of like that's not who Piggy is.
• 9:13
  Not anymore. Not anymore.
• 9:15
  Yeah. But that is sort of a a phase
• 9:17
  that she went through as part of Pigs in space.
• 9:19
  Yeah. Correct.
• 9:19
  And you know, maybe she isn't the smartest person in the room
• 9:23
  at the start. She certainly is by the end of
• 9:26
  it. But you know at that start
• 9:28
  she's, it's very much she's just there to as yes, you know serve
• 9:33
  the sketch right in her in her way and be this, you know be
• 9:37
  very much the straight man in it.
• 9:40
  And I think that's what's interesting as well is because
• 9:41
  you get Link and you get strange pork and they are bigger
• 9:47
  characters than Miss Piggy at the start.
• 9:49
  And look and I've and I mean I don't know how much you've
• 9:51
  spoken about it in previous podcasts but this is also when
• 9:56
  Frank Oz actually took on Miss Piggy full time the first
• 9:59
  season. Obviously he and Richard had
• 10:01
  been going back and forth, whereas this time it's no, no,
• 10:05
  this is this is Frank's character and this is you can
• 10:07
  see him fighting this piggy in these sketches.
• 10:10
  Yeah, one thing that's that's going on here is she has
• 10:12
  something new to respond against, which I think really
• 10:15
  kind of brings out her character and we'll see that that before
• 10:17
  this in season one. Basically, you know, she had
• 10:20
  romance feelings towards Kernet and she had her interest in her
• 10:24
  singing career. And those were basically the
• 10:26
  only things that she that she did and cared about.
• 10:29
  And all of a sudden in Pigs in Space, it gives her like a whole
• 10:31
  new story to be a part of and like new kinds of things to to
• 10:35
  respond to. Let's actually, let's get into
• 10:37
  them. Once again.
• 10:38
  I I am seeing the wisdom like I did last week of the way that
• 10:42
  moving right along works. We're talking about two minutes
• 10:44
  of a movie at a time I started, I set these episodes up and I'm
• 10:48
  like, OK, yeah, now we're going to talk about these 10 things,
• 10:51
  but we're going to do it. Let's get into it.
• 10:53
  The first Pigs in Space sketch for Season 2 is in episode two O
• 10:56
  3, the Milton Berle episode, and they introduce it by doing an
• 11:00
  opening where they play Star Trek style music and they
• 11:03
  explain who everybody is. And for this installment it's
• 11:05
  actually longer than usual. It gets a little shorter for the
• 11:08
  rest of the season and then they just drop it in season three
• 11:10
  because it takes up time and people already know who the
• 11:12
  characters are. But I love this one.
• 11:15
  At the top of the sketch we hear this.
• 11:18
  And now? Pigs.
• 11:25
  Pigs featuring the master of the swine Trek, the intrepid and
• 11:30
  well fed Link hog throb and his first maiden second in command,
• 11:37
  the very cute and extremely dangerous Miss Piggy, and the
• 11:42
  Super brain behind this whole ghastly mistake, the
• 11:44
  inexplicable Dr. Julius Strange pork.
• 11:49
  Very cute and extremely dangerous.
• 11:51
  I think is an amazing description of Miss Piggy
• 11:53
  because that is the pig that I love.
• 11:54
  She's both of those things. That is.
• 11:57
  But it's funny because, like that's as they were finding that
• 12:01
  part of her character, because even in this episode she's not
• 12:04
  particularly dangerous. Yeah, she is more dangerous
• 12:06
  conceptually as the season. Goes on, Yeah.
• 12:10
  I love those introductions though.
• 12:12
  Yeah. Like this.
• 12:13
  That was. That's always been one of my
• 12:14
  favorite parts of Pigs in space. It's just the those ridiculous
• 12:17
  like. They they keep finding like long
• 12:19
  words to be the descriptors and after a while they they start
• 12:23
  just using like sesquipedalian. They sort of give up on like
• 12:26
  finding one that makes sense and they just throw in the longest
• 12:28
  word they know. That's throw in just it always
• 12:31
  feels like they grab Scrabble letters, throw it down and be
• 12:34
  like just read out whatever it says.
• 12:35
  Yeah, and they are. They're always very funny.
• 12:38
  Yeah. Now in this one, we're
• 12:40
  pretending that this is a continuing narrative, which if
• 12:43
  that was true, this would be the most boring television show ever
• 12:46
  on TV. Because nothing happens in these
• 12:48
  sketches. They are specifically set up to
• 12:50
  to have the expectation that something is exciting, is going
• 12:53
  to happen, and then it deflates. The exciting thing that's
• 12:56
  happening as we get into this is that the swine trek is on a
• 12:59
  suicidal collision course with a mysterious celestial object
• 13:02
  which looks like, according to Miss Piggy, the headlight on a
• 13:05
  motorcycle. It's also fun watching this
• 13:08
  because of just how rubbish the graphics are like.
• 13:13
  This is long before any sort of CGI was on the scene.
• 13:18
  This is all just rubbish. This is real basic green screen.
• 13:21
  Real basic green screen. Yeah, it's it's garbage.
• 13:24
  But that's, I think that's why we love it.
• 13:28
  There's actually a a thing in the intro when Miss Piggy's head
• 13:31
  goes by. I don't know if you noticed
• 13:33
  this. I did after watching Every Time.
• 13:35
  Yeah, there's like the black. You can see part of the black
• 13:38
  drape that they put over the shoulders of the puppet as it
• 13:41
  goes by. I've always liked that.
• 13:44
  I think that's like I've noticed that.
• 13:45
  I reckon I noticed that the first time I ever saw this and
• 13:48
  it's just one of those things I've never been able to Unsee.
• 13:50
  And apologies if you've never seen that before or people
• 13:53
  listening to this, You will only ever see it from now on.
• 13:57
  And that's just them figuring out green screen, because it's
• 14:00
  all about lighting, basically. You have to, you have to get the
• 14:03
  lighting exactly right. And so for that particular
• 14:06
  moment, they did not. Strange Pork and Link are kind
• 14:10
  of they're a little they're buddies in this sketch and sort
• 14:13
  of in All in all of these sketches, they're a little two
• 14:15
  person team, and Miss Piggy is kind of on the outside.
• 14:18
  Doc, would you look this thing up in your book?
• 14:22
  Yes, yes. No, no.
• 14:23
  It's not listed here under any known objects.
• 14:27
  Look under unknown objects How? Could it be in that book if it's
• 14:30
  unknown there? Are some things even pigs don't
• 14:33
  know? This sketch actually doesn't
• 14:36
  feel to me like the first one that they made, the next one
• 14:39
  feel we'll get. We'll get to that in a minute.
• 14:40
  But because this one, she's basically just expressing
• 14:43
  sarcasm the entire time, she's sort of like rolling her eyes
• 14:46
  and that that's what she's doing the entire sketch.
• 14:49
  And I I really like Frank Oz's puppetry here, 'cause he's doing
• 14:53
  everything he can to indicate an eye roll with a puppet that
• 14:57
  absolutely is not able to do that.
• 15:00
  So she says a line, and then she turns away for one line.
• 15:03
  She speaks out of the side of her mouth.
• 15:04
  She has, like all kinds of different ways to give an
• 15:06
  expression to this puppet that cannot actually do the thing
• 15:08
  that she's doing. And that's what I like about.
• 15:11
  I think Frank's always been one of the best at it.
• 15:13
  Taking a very, very simple puppet who can't do, can only
• 15:17
  do, you know a very limited amount of things and finding
• 15:21
  every little camera angle or head tilt or you know slight
• 15:26
  move of that thumb and gets a whole range of expressions out
• 15:30
  of out of piggy. I think I've heard somewhere,
• 15:33
  and it might be with the newer Piggy, that apparently like
• 15:36
  there's not a lot of space in a like between the snout and the
• 15:40
  mouth to sort of move. Like, there's only a very little
• 15:42
  amount and so, but this piggy feels a lot more flexible in the
• 15:47
  mouth. Well, she is.
• 15:48
  She is all foam at this point. At a certain way they they put,
• 15:53
  they put fleece on top of it. But right now she's all foam.
• 15:55
  And you can see that when she's like crunching up her nose and
• 15:58
  stuff, you can see that this is just a foam puppet.
• 16:00
  But you're right when you say that like nothing happens in
• 16:03
  this sketch. You're not wrong.
• 16:04
  Like it's even even like it's anti climactic in the end.
• 16:08
  Like it looks like a motorcycle. Light because it was a
• 16:11
  motorcycle. Light.
• 16:12
  And then we see Gonzo driving by.
• 16:14
  And yeah, it actually was a motorcycle passing down to
• 16:16
  space. He drives past and they just go
• 16:19
  oh oh OK then and. Then Piggy says.
• 16:23
  I told you that at the beginning of this dumb sketch.
• 16:27
  Which is an incredible line because they are just inventing
• 16:31
  the idea of the the concept that this is a narrative and already
• 16:34
  Miss Piggy appears outside of that narrative.
• 16:38
  Which is, again, because I guess for almost the first time, and
• 16:43
  really, I guess one of the only times Miss Piggy is the straight
• 16:45
  man in the sketch. As I said before, there are two
• 16:48
  characters who are bigger than her, like bigger personalities
• 16:51
  than her, and so she's having to figure out how to be the smart
• 16:55
  one in the room, right? Which isn't what Piggy does.
• 16:58
  That's not to say Piggy's not smart, but Piggy's not the
• 17:00
  smart. But I can't believe I've said
• 17:02
  that. Like I'm afraid of offending A
• 17:04
  puppet, but the whole. Concept of this podcast is, yes,
• 17:08
  Piggy is real. We're just going to go, we're
• 17:10
  going to go with that. But yeah, it's she's not the
• 17:13
  she's she's the smartest person in the room for once.
• 17:18
  So it's just interesting things sort of that side of her.
• 17:22
  And I guess it's it's it's nice, 'cause even she can be like,
• 17:26
  yes, I know I'm a star and I want to be, you know, a star,
• 17:29
  and I'm going to commit as much to this sketch as I can, but
• 17:32
  even I have my limits, she hasn't.
• 17:35
  Whereas, you know, they they would get like The Muppets will
• 17:38
  get to a point in their time where she will immediately go
• 17:41
  for the karate chop. She will immediately go for the
• 17:44
  flying off the handle piggy. This is that little bit more
• 17:47
  subdued piggy who's sort of finding who's she's pushing her
• 17:51
  boundaries, right? She's trying to find where that
• 17:53
  line is. And Link ends up as you said it.
• 17:57
  You know, if Piggy is the straight man in the room, Link
• 17:59
  ends up as the butt of the joke at the end, with his snout
• 18:02
  getting caught between sliding doors, which mostly does not
• 18:05
  happen. After this, he very he very
• 18:07
  frustratingly comes out ahead in some of these.
• 18:11
  He does, which I appreciate because I think that adds to the
• 18:17
  the audience are relating more and more to Miss Piggy
• 18:19
  throughout this second season. And so they can see how that
• 18:23
  frustration is kind of, they can see where the frustration is
• 18:25
  coming from because, you know, as they relate to Piggy Moore,
• 18:29
  as they love Miss Piggy Moore, as she becomes the breakout star
• 18:33
  of the show, they sort of can start to get annoyed at, well,
• 18:37
  why the hell is she losing to these, you know, to this idiot
• 18:40
  pig? And they can start to feel that
• 18:41
  frustration alongside her. Yeah, as they, you know, start
• 18:45
  to build Piggy up, They can, they can play on that and they
• 18:48
  can give that frustration to the audience as well, which is why
• 18:52
  you continuously have these two bumbling buffoons constantly
• 18:56
  coming out on top this. It's a good way of, I think,
• 18:59
  introducing the whole concept of these sketches moving forward is
• 19:04
  that Piggy's the smart ones, These are the idiots.
• 19:07
  But she's not always going to win, right?
• 19:10
  Let's talk about the next one, Episode 205, Judy Collins.
• 19:13
  In this one, it's another catastrophe.
• 19:16
  There's always a catastrophe happening every time we see the
• 19:18
  swine trek, and this time they are.
• 19:20
  The swine trek is approaching the electrifying mid course
• 19:22
  correction maneuver, which doesn't mean anything.
• 19:25
  It's this is space. Hard to say what they're talking
• 19:30
  about, but it's you know. It's all just fancy tech words.
• 19:33
  Look, maybe it's I've watched too much Doctor Who in my life,
• 19:36
  but I just hear these words and go.
• 19:37
  I guess that makes sense. Yeah, you just go with it.
• 19:40
  Yeah. So this one actually feels more
• 19:43
  like the first sketch to me than the sarcastic version that we
• 19:46
  had in in the previous episode. Because here Piggy is talking in
• 19:49
  this kind of like exaggerated melodrama talk.
• 19:53
  Stand by for mid course correction.
• 19:56
  Isn't this electrifying? Doctor Strange Pork Ready to
• 20:00
  help me down? Oh, Captain Link, would it be
• 20:03
  all right if I performed the mid course correction?
• 20:07
  It's you're right. It does feel a lot more like the
• 20:09
  first one they probably filmed because and again that's that's
• 20:14
  Piggy just giving it her all like as these sort of sketches
• 20:17
  go towards the end she's like maybe not necessarily I think
• 20:20
  the last one which we'll get to she seems to be pretty pretty
• 20:25
  like all in yeah interacting ability with it.
• 20:28
  But the others like she just tends to be a little bit more
• 20:30
  like all right I guess we're gonna do this stupid sketch
• 20:32
  about the frog rode it All right.
• 20:34
  Let's go. Whereas this one, she's like,
• 20:36
  no, I'm all in like this is this is I'm gonna get an Emmy because
• 20:39
  of this. You know, and Frank Oz says that
• 20:41
  that part of the character for her is like, here's this pig who
• 20:44
  Can't Sing, who can't act, who, you know is a a pig and not very
• 20:50
  fashionable. And she, but she's gonna keep
• 20:52
  trying. She always thinks that she is.
• 20:54
  And yeah, here we're definitely seeing if this is her version of
• 20:57
  acting, what she's doing at the beginning of this sketch, then,
• 21:00
  yeah, no, she's not. She's not that good at and
• 21:02
  there's this weird part after. All I did go to school for this
• 21:07
  particular maneuver for 11 years.
• 21:10
  Still, you are a woman. Yes, captain, just as you are a
• 21:15
  man. Technically, you're both pigs,
• 21:18
  but we know what you're talking about.
• 21:20
  Oh, Captain, may I please perform the maneuver?
• 21:25
  Oh, I suppose so. Oh.
• 21:27
  Thank you El Capitan and. She says thank you and she hugs
• 21:31
  him And that that doesn't happen again.
• 21:34
  That's that's really the thing that makes me think like this is
• 21:36
  this was this is the first one, yeah.
• 21:39
  Yeah, yeah. And I mean, that's not something
• 21:41
  Piggy would ever do again. No.
• 21:43
  You turn around to Piggy and say, well, you are a woman.
• 21:47
  That's where she's going to bust out Raquel Welch.
• 21:49
  And she's going to sing a song about how proud she is to be a
• 21:51
  woman. And you and you can see them
• 21:54
  finding it like there is. And And it feels weird to us.
• 21:57
  Like, how uncomfortable is that? Yes.
• 21:59
  Yeah. And we're also look now looking
• 22:01
  at a lens of, you know, 4550 years later.
• 22:04
  And it's like, oh, don't let's let's not use that as a joke.
• 22:07
  Oh yeah, no, that's a running theme that.
• 22:10
  Yeah. Women can't drive and and
• 22:13
  shouldn't be trusted with any of the real controls.
• 22:15
  Yeah, it's. And look, I don't, I don't agree
• 22:19
  with it. I think it's, you know, I'm glad
• 22:21
  they don't do that sort of stuff now.
• 22:22
  But I and it's hard for me to sort of.
• 22:26
  I'm not defending those sort of jokes at all.
• 22:29
  But I see it very much as like it's the same as like when Miss
• 22:33
  Piggy Karate chops people. There's a whole thing online a
• 22:36
  couple of years ago where people are like, Miss Piggy shouldn't
• 22:38
  Karate chop anymore. It's violence.
• 22:39
  There's all that sort of stuff. I see it as cartoon violence.
• 22:43
  Yeah, I agree. Right.
• 22:44
  For me, it's cartoon violence. It's all just heightened, very
• 22:48
  silly. No one's supposed to be taking
• 22:50
  any of this seriously. So for me, like looking at
• 22:55
  jokes, like, you know, like you're a woman, like, I'm glad
• 22:59
  they don't do that now. And this is very much a feminist
• 23:03
  icon, I guess. Yeah, nowadays.
• 23:05
  But I look at this and I'm, I'm not looking at this going, oh,
• 23:08
  they there are some people who would watch this and go, they
• 23:10
  need to take that joke out, right?
• 23:12
  No. They don't.
• 23:13
  They don't. They just, you know, let's not
• 23:16
  make those jokes. Anymore, but start going well,
• 23:18
  part of this is her kind of turn on that where, yes, you know
• 23:23
  that that there always has to be that kind of like escape hatch
• 23:26
  then where the sexism is happening.
• 23:28
  But then that's the thing that she's reacting against.
• 23:31
  Yes, whereas this one she sort of isn't reacting to.
• 23:34
  And maybe that's why it feels a little bit weird, because she
• 23:36
  doesn't really react to the sexism as much as she will in
• 23:41
  the future. All right.
• 23:42
  Yeah. And.
• 23:43
  And right now what she's reacting to really is just the
• 23:45
  incompetence. Yes, there's one thing, like she
• 23:48
  says, I went, I I did go to school for this particular
• 23:51
  maneuver for 11 years, which is just a great line because it's
• 23:54
  like it's just pushing one button.
• 23:56
  And it would be tough to spin that out to 11 years of
• 23:59
  education. But it's it's a nice thing that
• 24:03
  absolutely like is a new thing for Miss Piggy.
• 24:06
  The idea that she has a past and you know and and for this
• 24:10
  narrative that she has a past that includes going to mid
• 24:14
  course correction school. For 11 years.
• 24:17
  For 11 years. I really love that.
• 24:19
  I can never figure out how old Miss Piggy is meant to be.
• 24:22
  Yeah, she is an adult. I think it's kind of the only
• 24:25
  yeah the only answer yeah she's she's the one that definitely
• 24:28
  isn't a kid and beyond that she could be kind of anytime.
• 24:33
  So she gets, she gets real wound up in this strange park and and
• 24:37
  Link are reminding her and telling her and ultimately
• 24:40
  yelling at her, telling her to push the button.
• 24:43
  And she gets kind of flustered and she says, just don't shout
• 24:46
  at me, I'm a lady, which is another line that I just like a
• 24:49
  lot. And Link pushes the wrong button
• 24:52
  and he So here's the turn for her.
• 24:55
  You have pushed the wrong button.
• 24:59
  I spent eleven years learning which button that portion you
• 25:04
  pushed one of those kind of buttons.
• 25:07
  This is, it's a new thing for her to do.
• 25:09
  It's basically, it's not it's not just like the insult karate
• 25:12
  chop, but she gets to do this kind of like feminine to
• 25:15
  masculine turn. That is where she's actually
• 25:19
  using like sarcasm and insults herself, as opposed to being
• 25:23
  just the the recipient of it. Yeah, and it's funny you say
• 25:26
  that. Feminine to masculine turn.
• 25:28
  It's something that I've certainly changed my opinion on
• 25:32
  over the years, but there was a time where, like I had a
• 25:35
  conversation with a friend a couple of years ago about Miss
• 25:38
  Piggy and the lack of lack of feminine representation in The
• 25:42
  Muppets, which is a very long running conversation.
• 25:47
  We had a conversation about female puppeteers and my friend
• 25:51
  was under the impression that Miss Piggy was played by a
• 25:53
  woman. Really.
• 25:54
  Yes. And so I said, well, no, no,
• 25:57
  for, you know, it was Frank Oz. Now it's Eric Jacobson.
• 26:01
  And she was quite horrified by that.
• 26:05
  Like she was like, well, you know, is that really
• 26:08
  appropriate? This is going on, especially at
• 26:10
  a big time during the whole me too movement and, you know,
• 26:13
  female representation and all that sort of stuff.
• 26:16
  And I was watching it and I was very much in the camp of Miss
• 26:21
  Piggy has to be played by man, I think.
• 26:23
  I think you need that masculine energy to Miss Piggy.
• 26:27
  But I've started to, and it was funny because of all things that
• 26:32
  made me change my opinion, It was Moki Fraggle.
• 26:38
  If you watch Back to the Rock and watch Donna Kimball and how
• 26:42
  she plays Moki, I'm like, you can see Piggy in that.
• 26:45
  She's got that energy, yeah. She's got that energy.
• 26:48
  Wow. Wow.
• 26:50
  Wow. Wow.
• 26:50
  Wow. Wow wow wow Wow.
• 26:53
  Is this a magical vomit or what? I guess I choose what?
• 26:59
  Oh, come on, it'll be fun and easy.
• 27:01
  You do a little toast, open the box, the butterflies fly out,
• 27:05
  and then it turns into a party and everyone dances hard.
• 27:08
  Like, really hard. The kind of dancing where you
• 27:11
  become the music. And so I did sort of think to
• 27:15
  myself, OK, maybe maybe I'm completely wrong here, and it
• 27:19
  completely changed my opinion. Over 10 episodes of Back to the
• 27:22
  Rock, I went from like, thinking Piggy hat to be Played by a Man
• 27:26
  to no, in fact, anyone could do this job.
• 27:30
  OK, So it's interesting you say that sort of piggy has that, you
• 27:34
  know, flipped to masculinity because now I'm like, yeah,
• 27:40
  again, I I was so in that camp. And now I'm not.
• 27:43
  And I wonder what your opinion is on that, if you even had one.
• 27:47
  I do, yeah. It's piggy's a drag act.
• 27:51
  And I think there's a very particular energy that comes
• 27:54
  from a guy who's in drag that you know, that there is non
• 28:00
  feminine stuff that's there under the surface And the sort
• 28:03
  of over exaggerated femininity that we see from Piggy on the
• 28:06
  outside is very much like a drag kind of performance.
• 28:10
  Yeah, where she's playing up to that and then kind of letting
• 28:14
  Frank Oz at one point referred to her.
• 28:16
  She said like, you know, she does all this feminine stuff up
• 28:19
  front, but underneath she's a truck driver.
• 28:21
  Yeah. And I think it makes sense.
• 28:24
  I'm. I'm amazed that anybody thought
• 28:26
  that she was actually played by a woman.
• 28:27
  Yeah, that that. It makes sense that both of
• 28:30
  those kind of identities are present at the same time.
• 28:34
  I think that's kind of key to her humor.
• 28:36
  Yeah. That being said, if, you know,
• 28:38
  if I saw somebody else playing with Piggy, I would definitely
• 28:40
  be, you know, if I saw Donna Kimball or another female
• 28:42
  puppeteer player, I would definitely be interested to see,
• 28:46
  like what they did with it and how it felt.
• 28:47
  I'm sort of only responding to like, the two people that I've
• 28:50
  seen play Miss Piggy up until now.
• 28:52
  Yes. So I wouldn't say it's out of
• 28:54
  the question, I would be interested to see it.
• 28:56
  Yeah. And I mean, it's probably
• 28:57
  something we're not going to see for a very long time, if at all.
• 29:00
  But yeah, I think, I think there is that masculinity to Piggy and
• 29:06
  I and I hesitate to say it can only come from a male performer
• 29:09
  because I don't necessarily believe that, but.
• 29:12
  And it's not. And it's not necessarily like
• 29:14
  masculinity as much as it is aggression and sort of it's it's
• 29:17
  traits that are kind of stereotypically connected to
• 29:21
  masculinity and then traits that are connected to femininity in
• 29:24
  our culture. But as shorthand, we are we are
• 29:27
  using masculine. Do you?
• 29:29
  Think any of the humor of it comes from our knowledge that
• 29:33
  Miss Piggy is being played by a man?
• 29:35
  Yeah, because that's that's what drag performance is like.
• 29:38
  You're not supposed to believe it, right?
• 29:40
  That, you know drag performers, they really like make a much
• 29:43
  more heightened presentation of femininity specifically because
• 29:47
  it kind of throws into relief the the fact that everybody
• 29:49
  knows that she's a man. OK Yep.
• 29:52
  But we are gonna see let's I'm moving on to this is so.
• 29:55
  Interesting. Let's move on.
• 29:55
  Yeah, let's move on. I get myself cancelled.
• 29:59
  Well, no, but these are, these are actually like they're super
• 30:01
  interesting questions and issues.
• 30:03
  And that is really kind of some of the stuff that I wanna figure
• 30:06
  out and talk about in this in this podcast.
• 30:08
  I'm really glad you're bringing it up.
• 30:10
  That being said, we have like eight of these.
• 30:12
  Yeah. So I am moving on to and here is
• 30:16
  1 where this is probably the most direct sexist joke that
• 30:21
  we've got in this set. This is episode 207.
• 30:24
  It's Edgar Bergen the ironing sketch.
• 30:26
  They are on the verge of a hideous catastrophe once again,
• 30:29
  and Strange Fork says. Captain, according to my
• 30:33
  records, the only person who's had the necessary training to
• 30:36
  save us is First Mate Piggy. Oh, I am ready to do whatever is
• 30:43
  necessary to save the swine Trek and her crew.
• 30:47
  I am at the service of all Porkton.
• 30:50
  What is my assignment? Miss Piggy, you and you alone
• 30:55
  can operate the independent heating slash unifying element
• 30:59
  across the Horizontal equalizing plane and save the entire crew
• 31:03
  of the swine trek. I am ready, my captain.
• 31:08
  And it turns out to be an iron in an ironing board.
• 31:13
  Yeah, just just absolute, flat out sexism.
• 31:19
  Yep. Like we're not even going to try
• 31:20
  to hide this one. This is they are sexist.
• 31:23
  Miss Piggy as a woman and. She has to do They are male
• 31:25
  chauvinist pigs. Yes.
• 31:27
  Oh, now that's actually a very good term and something that I
• 31:31
  have thought of before when it comes to them.
• 31:33
  But they. You're right.
• 31:34
  They completely lean into the male chauvinist pigs.
• 31:37
  Yeah, that's that's funny. Like, I don't know.
• 31:39
  I can't believe I hadn't thought of that phrase yet today or
• 31:43
  yesterday. Watching this like that is such
• 31:45
  a that is obviously what they're going for.
• 31:48
  And the thing that makes this funny for me, and I do think
• 31:50
  it's funny, like just the that turn of finding out exactly what
• 31:55
  those two things are and that they turn out to be an iron
• 31:57
  ironing board. I think it's funny because she
• 32:01
  100% does not say, oh, OK, what a great idea.
• 32:04
  Yeah, I'm the woman on board. I'm going to do the laundry.
• 32:08
  No, no, no, no, First thing, she says.
• 32:11
  You want me to do the laundry? Like, this is not happening.
• 32:17
  Yeah, and this is her first attempt at the karate chop
• 32:20
  catharsis, where they are insulting her and doing sexist
• 32:23
  jokes and she grabs the iron and she actually tries to karate
• 32:27
  chop link with the iron, which would have been devastating.
• 32:30
  But you know, in a turn of events, because usually when
• 32:34
  this piggy cruddy chops someone, 9 times out of 10 she connects
• 32:38
  or she connects to at least someone she doesn't connect in
• 32:41
  this case. No, she gets.
• 32:43
  She bangs against the metal. Door.
• 32:45
  She comes up. Yeah, she comes off second best.
• 32:48
  Which again, isn't something that happens a lot to Piggy in
• 32:51
  her everyday life, Right. And.
• 32:54
  One thing that's interesting for me, looking at these and and
• 32:58
  thinking about how, yes, these are like, these are all very
• 33:00
  sexist jokes. At least the stuff that we've
• 33:02
  seen so far is really sexist jokes.
• 33:03
  And the response from the audience at the time was just to
• 33:07
  love Piggy even more. Nobody was writing fan mail to
• 33:12
  Link Hogthrob saying, oh, we love the way that you demean
• 33:15
  Miss Piggy, what a great character link Hogthrob is.
• 33:17
  No, like, there are multiple jokes in the second season about
• 33:22
  Piggy being a woman and being fat.
• 33:24
  There's like a whole episode that's about that.
• 33:26
  And the response from the world is people just kept loving
• 33:30
  Piggy. Like, they the thing that people
• 33:32
  really liked. And the thing that I really like
• 33:35
  is seeing her, like, get insulted, seeing her get put
• 33:38
  into that box, because I know that she can rise to the
• 33:41
  challenge. Yes.
• 33:43
  And that's the thing that I think that people really want to
• 33:45
  see Like they we kind of crave the insult.
• 33:48
  In some ways, that's the sort of like karate, chop, catharsis,
• 33:50
  dynamic. That's it.
• 33:51
  Where she's resilient. And I think a lot of people neat
• 33:56
  like to see that resilience. And especially, you know, this
• 33:59
  was a show that was primarily targeted towards children and
• 34:03
  families. And so it was nice to see
• 34:05
  resilience in such a strong female character.
• 34:10
  Yeah, maybe played by man, but still a female character.
• 34:13
  And you know, this is at a time where there, this was not a big
• 34:18
  thing in television at that point.
• 34:20
  Like, yes, there were like big female characters, but this was
• 34:24
  like one of the first, you know what, I'm going to come for you
• 34:27
  and I'm going to get you like female characters.
• 34:30
  And and really known that way that she is, she is very cute
• 34:33
  and extremely dangerous as the announcer said in the in the
• 34:36
  first sketch and and being being both of those things is very
• 34:40
  important. Yeah, and I mean it's all just a
• 34:42
  testament to either writing and being to to Frank's puppetry and
• 34:47
  also to the puppet building. Like, you know, I studied
• 34:49
  animation and one of the things we were told about character
• 34:52
  design was the character has to look appealing.
• 34:55
  It doesn't have to be a good looking character, but the
• 34:58
  character has to be interesting enough that it's appealing and
• 35:01
  piggy very much more so in, you know, this season like early
• 35:09
  early Miss Piggy Puppet. Not overly appealing, right?
• 35:13
  She's getting the hair in the pigs in space outfit as well.
• 35:17
  She gets that, she gets that appeal.
• 35:19
  And so I'm not surprised she was getting all this fan mail and
• 35:23
  you know, people were rallying against her.
• 35:25
  I'm not against her. Sorry.
• 35:26
  Rallying against her, I should say.
• 35:27
  Yes, yeah, yeah. Everybody is on her side, which
• 35:30
  is pretty amazing. Next sketch, episode 209, the
• 35:34
  Madeleine Kahn episode. This is actually, it's very
• 35:36
  similar to the one that we just talked about the the swine trek
• 35:39
  is drifting aimlessly through space due to the loss of power
• 35:42
  in the steering mechanism, which again is not.
• 35:44
  That's not a space thing, but here's here's link.
• 35:48
  He's sort of ineffectually pulling levers.
• 35:52
  Try that one. What this one here I already
• 35:56
  did. I didn't see you.
• 35:59
  You don't have to see me. I'm the captain.
• 36:02
  And Hog Thrub informs her. Now you stay on your own side.
• 36:06
  These are the captain's controls.
• 36:08
  Those are your controls. They're the first mate controls.
• 36:12
  You work your own. But my controls are just for the
• 36:15
  hot plate, the air conditioning and the stereo.
• 36:17
  They have nothing to do with steering.
• 36:21
  That's right. I I love that line reading of
• 36:25
  well, I didn't see you. It's it's a case of Piggy being
• 36:29
  the smartest person in the room again, but still coming off
• 36:32
  second best. Because sure enough, that button
• 36:34
  didn't actually do the job right.
• 36:37
  Like, that wasn't the button. So she's still wrong.
• 36:41
  Yes, she is. She is rebelling against male
• 36:43
  domination, which again, I like to see.
• 36:46
  But yeah, you could really go either way on this.
• 36:48
  Yeah. One thing that's funny to me is
• 36:50
  that these are not Star Trek problems at all.
• 36:53
  Like, we need to get the laundry done.
• 36:56
  We don't know how the steering works.
• 36:57
  Like, this is not what Star Trek is about.
• 36:59
  These are they're basically on a long car trip.
• 37:02
  Is is how this feels? Yeah, it's just and there's I
• 37:06
  like the fact there's no indication of where they're
• 37:08
  going. They're just in space, hanging
• 37:11
  out. And in fact, anytime they even
• 37:14
  try to talk about that, I I believe the the, the phrase they
• 37:17
  use is lost in Endless space. Yeah, like that comes up more
• 37:22
  than once. Let's talk about the next one.
• 37:24
  We've got 214 Elton John in this one.
• 37:27
  The crew is overcome with a fearful attack of boredom.
• 37:29
  They're sitting back in their chairs and sighing.
• 37:32
  Miss Piggy is basically asleep. Yeah.
• 37:35
  And here we are, lost in endless space.
• 37:38
  Wonderful puppetry though. Yeah, just all three of them
• 37:41
  just sighing at the same time. Just a real nice little bit of a
• 37:45
  synchronization at. Least we could have brought ATV
• 37:49
  set. I'm missing all my favorite
• 37:51
  bowling shows, you and. Your bowling shows, He cries at
• 37:58
  the sad parts I've. Forgotten that?
• 38:02
  That's a great line. And and again it's piggy kind of
• 38:05
  like being sarcastic and and she is no longer being subordinate
• 38:10
  to him the way that she was there.
• 38:12
  There's no like you are a woman and you are a man at this point.
• 38:16
  Yeah, this feels very classic piggy.
• 38:21
  Yeah, this feels really like I'm not taking any more crap like
• 38:24
  you're an idiot. Oh, Doctor.
• 38:28
  Oh, what does that red? Light mean oh, the red light
• 38:30
  means stop the green light means go the yellow light no.
• 38:33
  No, not traffic lights yet. Twit I.
• 38:37
  Really like it when she gets to call Strange Burke a twit, that
• 38:40
  is. That is satisfying in some very
• 38:42
  basic way for me. Yeah, this is where, like, you
• 38:45
  know, and I've said it a couple of times, but she's the smartest
• 38:47
  person in the room. This is where she actually
• 38:48
  finally gets to like all but say you're idiots.
• 38:52
  Yes, I'm smart. What the Hell's going on here?
• 38:55
  Yeah. And then they learned that the
• 38:57
  ship has been invaded by alien creatures.
• 38:59
  And this really is is probably the the sketch that goes against
• 39:04
  all of those sexist jokes that they've done in the previous
• 39:06
  sketches, because Link then runs to Piggy.
• 39:08
  Oh, oh. Help.
• 39:10
  Well do something. This piggy that they're like
• 39:13
  snakes all scream you're. That Captain Fat sound.
• 39:18
  And so it's showing that the sexist critique of Piggy is not
• 39:21
  actually accurate, because Link is actually the the weak and the
• 39:24
  cowardly 1 and he's turning to Piggy for protection.
• 39:27
  Now obviously, like, this was episode 214, right?
• 39:33
  So we're about halfway through season two.
• 39:35
  Yeah. Granted, I haven't watched like
• 39:38
  season two of The Muppet Show for a very long time at this
• 39:41
  point. We.
• 39:43
  I'm trying to remember how much Piggy's been established as like
• 39:46
  a hard ass and a bad ass outside of pigs in space.
• 39:52
  That is, that is happening. That's definitely by this point,
• 39:54
  is it? Yeah, so like, they're leaning
• 39:57
  into that as well. They're playing into the whole
• 39:59
  We know that Miss Piggy, outside of this, outside this sketch, is
• 40:04
  like, you know, she doesn't take any crap from anyone.
• 40:06
  Yeah, she that is now established.
• 40:08
  Yeah, you're right. It's sort of like outside this,
• 40:10
  outside this story, that's it. So they sort of they they're
• 40:14
  winking at the fact, you know, Piggy's Piggy's cool, Piggy's
• 40:17
  going to save the day if she needs to, which they hadn't
• 40:21
  really sort of done much of yet. It's like.
• 40:25
  Yeah, they'd have the Angry Piggy and the Karate Chopped
• 40:27
  Piggy, but they hadn't really had the Miss Piggy knows how to
• 40:30
  save us sort of part yet, whereas that what that was now
• 40:35
  being established. Yeah, strong piggy.
• 40:37
  Yeah, you're right. Yeah.
• 40:39
  Now they're all freaked out by the Swedish Chef and the chicken
• 40:41
  as they run through from, you know, previous part of the show,
• 40:44
  as they should be. This is an insane man with the
• 40:47
  Cleaver running around in circles around the deck, but
• 40:50
  fine. So this is the first time so far
• 40:54
  that the outside world of the show has kind of penetrated
• 40:57
  inside the pigs and space sketches.
• 40:59
  So it's kind of like mixing up this conceit that this is
• 41:02
  somehow a continuing story that's separate from the rest of
• 41:04
  The Muppet Show. Next one is episode 218, JP
• 41:09
  Morgan. The spaceship is plummeting
• 41:12
  towards Earth at an alarming rate, and in order to maintain
• 41:15
  their present altitude, they need to throw something out of
• 41:17
  the ship to keep it afloat, which is not how rocket ships
• 41:20
  work. They're thinking of hot air
• 41:24
  balloons, where you have to throw up those.
• 41:26
  Things you know. In order to get out altitude is
• 41:28
  not a is not a spaceship kind of concept.
• 41:31
  What I so, I mean as we'll talk about so they decide that they
• 41:34
  need to get rid of a pig. I like the fact that like that's
• 41:38
  going to be like that minute bit of weight in such a heavy ship
• 41:43
  is going to be what saves them and they decide on Miss Piggy.
• 41:47
  Yep, and there's a great puppetry moment that I really
• 41:51
  like when Link is trying to to tell her what the plan is.
• 41:57
  Oh first mate Piggy, I need your help.
• 41:59
  Yes, a reassignment, Yes, yes. We are losing altitude and we
• 42:05
  must lighten the weight of the rocket by throwing something
• 42:09
  overboard. Oh.
• 42:10
  And and you want me to help you decide what?
• 42:15
  No. Oh, we've already decided.
• 42:17
  What? What are you out of?
• 42:32
  Your mind, and they have to get across.
• 42:33
  That piggy is slowly realizing that Link wants to throw her
• 42:37
  overboard and it's a really. It's another really nice example
• 42:40
  of of Oz's puppetry skill, that he is getting emotions out of
• 42:45
  the puppet that technically she cannot express with her eyes or
• 42:48
  her face. Yeah.
• 42:50
  And as I said before, it's all just tiny little movements in
• 42:53
  that snout. Yeah.
• 42:54
  And she just, I think Frank holds that look.
• 42:57
  Yeah, he holds that look and just this very slight little
• 43:00
  head tilt before he does the snout and that expresses so
• 43:03
  much. Yeah, it's really beautiful.
• 43:06
  It is and and as is Link's gulp. Yes.
• 43:11
  And because you don't see Link's face when he gulps, you only see
• 43:14
  like the sort of, I guess 3/4 back of his head.
• 43:17
  Like the snout move. Yeah, just a fine little bit of
• 43:20
  puppetry. Yeah, it's really lovely.
• 43:22
  And then this is the first successful karate chop, finally
• 43:25
  on Pigs in Space that he drops her and yells over for fatso and
• 43:31
  and then somehow she comes back behind him, she pops back up.
• 43:34
  And so she finally, for the first time, well deserved by
• 43:37
  this point, finally gives him a karate chop, which is the thing
• 43:40
  that the audience loves. And then stomp him to the
• 43:43
  ground, which is that extra bit of awesome puppetry that
• 43:47
  sometimes does of like he gives the karate chop and then there's
• 43:49
  like this little hop as she's stomping on the person.
• 43:52
  It is always extra funny. It is basically one of their
• 43:55
  most reliable sources of audience pleasure is watching
• 43:58
  Miss Piggy do that. And like I said, it's pure
• 44:01
  cartoon violence. And also he's getting his
• 44:04
  comeuppance. Like it's not like he's some oh
• 44:08
  this man who didn't deserve it. He absolutely deserved the
• 44:11
  karate chop and the kick. In this moment, yes, for sure.
• 44:14
  Yeah, he's a better throw her overboard.
• 44:15
  Yeah. I think of it like the cartoon
• 44:17
  violence. I think of it as this is
• 44:19
  mythology that this is like Bugs Bunny and Elmer Fudd.
• 44:23
  This is like Lucy pulling the the football away from Charlie
• 44:26
  Brown. Yeah.
• 44:28
  That yeah, there's violence, but it's but this is our mythology
• 44:31
  and mythological characters there.
• 44:34
  There are different rules apply when you're talking about
• 44:36
  mythology. So episode 222, Teresa Brewer
• 44:41
  episode. This is my favorite one of the
• 44:42
  season because this is the one where Piggy just completely flat
• 44:46
  out rebels and just refuses to be part of the sketch.
• 44:50
  This is finally this is she. She is taken to the breaking
• 44:54
  point and she breaks everything. They're having another
• 44:56
  catastrophe that the oxygen and the fuel and the water is all
• 45:00
  used up and they are they are in a mess.
• 45:04
  And piggy starts out with that same kind of like melodrama
• 45:08
  voice of of saying, oh captain, my captain, what shall we do.
• 45:12
  And then a pig comes in and announces Captain we're out of
• 45:15
  swill which to hit that it hits link and strange port very hard
• 45:21
  it. Does.
• 45:23
  Pig God, We're out of water, fuel and oxygen.
• 45:26
  What could be worse, Captain, We're out of swill.
• 45:31
  Out of swill. Oh, that.
• 45:34
  Swill, wait a minute. I thought this was a serious
• 45:41
  science fiction story. Yes, but we've got 25 adult pigs
• 45:44
  on this spaceship we can't survive without.
• 45:47
  Swill. So a thing that I love is that
• 45:50
  Piggy does not seem broken up about this at all.
• 45:54
  Like just mentioning mentioning Swill.
• 45:57
  She doesn't do pig stuff. That's it.
• 46:01
  It's it's one of those things that I love when an
• 46:06
  anthropomorphic, anthropomorphic, that's the
• 46:10
  word, whatever. You all know what I mean.
• 46:14
  Character actually acts like that, Charac, like actually acts
• 46:17
  like that animal. Like, you know, the best example
• 46:20
  I can think of is like, you know, Brian from Family Guy when
• 46:23
  he actually acts like a dog, right?
• 46:25
  Yeah. And so here you've actually got,
• 46:28
  you know, Blink and Julius talking about swill like, which
• 46:33
  is what pigs eat. And yeah, this seems to be piggy
• 46:36
  gown like really, this is what we're going to do like And
• 46:41
  again, just rebelling against it.
• 46:43
  Just that, complete like I'm not, I'm not taking part in this
• 46:45
  like this. Almost almost like it's
• 46:47
  demeaning. Yeah.
• 46:49
  And she does a take to the camera like Jim from the office
• 46:53
  style of just like looking at the, looking at the camera and
• 46:56
  saying, do you believe these guys?
• 46:58
  Yeah, at one point, yeah. She literally does that head
• 47:00
  tilt of like, what the Hell's going on here?
• 47:03
  Which is when they're all freaking out when Scooter joins.
• 47:06
  So link tells Piggy there's actually like some really nice
• 47:09
  writing. Miss Piggy, go cook us some
• 47:12
  squill. Me, I'm the first mate.
• 47:16
  I'm supposed to give orders. Why?
• 47:18
  And then give us 25 orders of swill.
• 47:23
  And one side of Goldslaw. Besides, I am a gourmet cook.
• 47:30
  Good. Then give us 25 orders of Swill
• 47:33
  Stroganoff. And then she just breaks.
• 47:39
  All right, that doesn't. I refuse to continue this
• 47:42
  sketch, you hear? Me sketch.
• 47:44
  What sketch this is this wind truck.
• 47:46
  We've lost an endless space. This is a cheap shot comedy
• 47:50
  sketch and I know your arms the frog wrote it.
• 47:53
  Yeah, it's just like, I refuse to do it.
• 47:55
  The Frog love is probably written this and I'm just not
• 47:58
  doing it anymore. And then Scooter pops up and
• 48:02
  goes. Guys like get on with it like
• 48:04
  Kim. It's like hurry up and it's like
• 48:08
  Link and Strange Fork. They are fully into this sketch,
• 48:13
  like they have committed 100% because Scooter turns up and Oh
• 48:17
  my God, there's an alien here and we have to get rid of him
• 48:20
  and Scooter's like, what the Hell's going on?
• 48:22
  Like I've got an alien, like what?
• 48:23
  What the hell? And they just commit fully, And
• 48:26
  so they. Think they think this, They they
• 48:29
  think this is real, This is their life as far as they're
• 48:31
  concerned. Yeah.
• 48:32
  So they just fully, you know, commit to this thing.
• 48:36
  And Piggy's just like and I've, I've been around that.
• 48:38
  I've been around people who just will fully commit to a joke.
• 48:42
  And I was sitting there going, I appreciate it, but can we just
• 48:45
  move on? Yeah, it's just I I really
• 48:49
  related to Piggy during this. Hey.
• 48:53
  You guys, Kermit says. Get on with the sketch, OK.
• 48:56
  Red Alert Emergency. A idiot space preacher has
• 49:02
  spotted a shit space preacher from outer space.
• 49:03
  We are doomed. Yeah, she does.
• 49:08
  Another, another really big take to the camera and something that
• 49:11
  I like is that it feels like she has broken.
• 49:14
  Like she's broken the sketch and a little bit she's broken.
• 49:17
  The show like this does not happen, that you know, Link is
• 49:21
  saying like we're lost in endless space, she says.
• 49:23
  This is a cheap shot comedy sketch.
• 49:25
  I'll lay odds the frog rode it and that's not a thing that they
• 49:28
  ever talk about that like who writes the sketches?
• 49:32
  And then Scooter coming on stage and saying Kermit is saying move
• 49:36
  on with the sketch that never happens.
• 49:38
  As crazy as things get in on The Muppet Show, we do not see that.
• 49:42
  So it feels like this is Miss Piggy being very cute and
• 49:45
  extremely dangerous, where she has basically destroyed the
• 49:49
  spaceship and like, and there's red lights warning sirens going
• 49:53
  on. She's broken the sketch she is
• 49:55
  possibly broken, The Muppet Show.
• 49:57
  She refuses to pretend that she's a pig, she refuses to
• 50:01
  participate in these sexist jokes about her cooking, and
• 50:04
  finally just refuses to be part of this television show.
• 50:07
  She just tears it all down as she leaves, which is fantastic.
• 50:12
  Yeah, she's it's it's a good case of breaking the 4th wall,
• 50:17
  but like. And then stop.
• 50:18
  It breaking the 4th wall. Yeah, breaking the 4th wall.
• 50:20
  Stomping it. Like breaking the 4th wall of
• 50:22
  the 4th wall. Like not only is this a
• 50:25
  television, literally am I breaking the 4th wall?
• 50:27
  This sketch? I'm breaking the 4th wall, this
• 50:29
  television show. And I've just.
• 50:31
  I've had enough. And also I'm a puppet.
• 50:33
  And also like, it feels like she's, you know, she could, she
• 50:37
  could go there if she wanted to. This is high camp and I loved
• 50:41
  it. This is like it's an
• 50:43
  acknowledgement. It's a thing that camp does,
• 50:45
  which is an acknowledgement that that this is frivolous and
• 50:48
  false, that we've committed to the sort of over overly serious
• 50:52
  melodrama of the situation, but now we're seeing in reality that
• 50:56
  that's just petty and overblown. Yeah, and I I haven't have a
• 51:01
  four year degree in post structuralist literary theory,
• 51:04
  which is the only way to go. And if I wanted to I could use
• 51:07
  unending amounts of trickster jargon about like transgression
• 51:12
  and signifiers and knowledge systems and stuff.
• 51:15
  Luckily I don't. I don't feel like doing that.
• 51:18
  I appreciate that. For for you and all the
• 51:21
  listeners. I'm not doing it, but I could.
• 51:24
  And this is the sketch where I could if I wanted to.
• 51:27
  Yeah, this. Is a.
• 51:28
  This is probably a good example of how well written The Muppet
• 51:33
  Show could be. Yes, yeah, because there's some
• 51:35
  great lines in it. But it's also, it's probably the
• 51:39
  Pigs in Space sketch to explain what the Muppet Show is like.
• 51:42
  If you want to show what The Muppets show, you take a couple
• 51:45
  of sketches from sort of like, you know, a couple of different
• 51:47
  episodes. This is probably a good one to
• 51:49
  put in there. Yeah, it it shows you both like
• 51:52
  what Pigs in Space is like what Miss Piggy is like and how
• 51:55
  extremely dangerous she is. Yeah, and kind of what she can
• 51:58
  do when she really puts her mind to something.
• 52:01
  Episode 224. This is our last one.
• 52:04
  Loris Leachman episode. The fun thing about this sketch
• 52:07
  is that this is the one that Piggy abandons Kermit for, and
• 52:11
  it's not worth it at all. No.
• 52:14
  So if I remember, this is the episode where the pigs have
• 52:17
  taken over, correct? Yes.
• 52:18
  Mm hmm. Right.
• 52:19
  Yeah. And they lock up Kermit and
• 52:21
  Fozzie and Gonzo in a little room.
• 52:23
  That's right. And right before this sketch,
• 52:26
  Miss Piggy visits their little cell and she says that she'll
• 52:29
  stand by Kermit. She refuses to go on.
• 52:32
  You have to cancel it. I I remain with my sweetheart.
• 52:36
  Kerry, come. On Gee, Miss Piggy.
• 52:39
  OK, we'll just get someone to take your place.
• 52:42
  Take my place, I. Mean.
• 52:44
  If you want to stay here with him, we'll kill.
• 52:46
  Him. Well, bye.
• 53:01
  That's showbiz, pal. And that I think that's another
• 53:06
  important character moment that I'm kind of like tracking
• 53:09
  through these episodes. Yeah, talking about first season
• 53:12
  and now into the second season. You know, she started out where
• 53:14
  her love for Kermit was the most important thing, the only
• 53:17
  important thing in the world to her.
• 53:19
  And by now, her career is even more important than that.
• 53:24
  I interviewed Frank Oz back in 2019.
• 53:28
  I think it was about from other guys talking.
• 53:32
  When that came out and he and I were talking about Miss Piggy
• 53:36
  and I was trying to figure out about her.
• 53:39
  I was asking her about his. I was asking him, I should say,
• 53:42
  about her desire to be famous. And he said Miss Piggy has no
• 53:49
  desire to be famous. He said Miss Piggy just wants to
• 53:52
  be loved and fame. She sees fame as the easiest way
• 53:57
  to get that. And that's something I think
• 54:00
  about with Miss Piggy a lot. That is so interesting, yeah.
• 54:04
  Because Miss Piggy doing this, she's like, she's knows that if
• 54:09
  she does, goes and does her sketch, she's going to get the
• 54:12
  adoring fans like, Oh my God, Miss Piggy's here and she's
• 54:16
  worried that if she doesn't do this sketch, they're going to
• 54:19
  forget about her, right? Because someone else is now
• 54:21
  going on instead. Of her.
• 54:22
  Someone else is now going to go on instead of her.
• 54:24
  She's like, no, no, I need that love.
• 54:25
  I need that adulation. So I guess that desire to be
• 54:30
  loved by, you know, hordes of people might over that.
• 54:36
  That transcends, yeah, yeah, transcends the love.
• 54:39
  To be loved by a frog. Expect that she's getting right
• 54:41
  in that moment to correct, to stand by him.
• 54:45
  Oh, that is so interesting. Yeah that and that's something
• 54:48
  that I think about a lot when it comes to Piggy and it's
• 54:52
  something that I've I think I said it to Eric when we
• 54:59
  interviewed him on to interview that guest star.
• 55:00
  It might have been after the interview because we've chatted
• 55:03
  for like 2 hours afterwards. I mentioned that Frank had said
• 55:07
  that and he was like I really, really love that and I think he
• 55:09
  actually wrote it down. I think he, I think he was like
• 55:12
  I'm gonna, I'm gonna like try champion basically that again.
• 55:17
  And I guess we haven't seen a lot of Piggy sort of since then
• 55:20
  because they haven't done a lot with us since.
• 55:23
  Given all that, it's kind of a disappointment that the sketch
• 55:25
  is kind of lame. Yeah, it's not great.
• 55:28
  This is this is their first real Star Trek type sketch where
• 55:32
  there's an alien invading and they're supposed to respond to
• 55:35
  that. This is actually where the
• 55:36
  series is going to go. Next season is to do like fewer
• 55:40
  of the you know, Season 2 is all the like domestic trouble
• 55:44
  between the three pigs. And then next season it's going
• 55:48
  to be more of a science fiction show.
• 55:49
  Yeah, and they go a little more experimental with things like
• 55:54
  I'm on the I'm on the Muppet wiki page for For Pigs in Space
• 55:58
  now and like the next one has Gonzo, Camilla, Beaker, A
• 56:02
  Kuzmanian luncheon, Counter Monster, the Witch Doctor, Chuck
• 56:06
  Liver, and Statler. The one after that they turn all
• 56:10
  in turn into food, whatever it is.
• 56:13
  Yeah, they sort of get a little more experimental with the whole
• 56:16
  thing. Yeah, the snack O Waves.
• 56:18
  They're on. It's a Dumbo rays.
• 56:19
  There's a dissolvatron. It's more of them kind of coming
• 56:22
  up against space science fictiony things.
• 56:25
  Yeah, and they actually get out of the swine truck at one point
• 56:28
  and go to Planet Kuzbane. Yes, yeah, for a hot 2nd.
• 56:32
  I wish they had sort of been getting to that point.
• 56:34
  Like now just because this episode, yeah, this, this
• 56:38
  particular installment of Pigs in Space kind of felt a little
• 56:41
  flat. Like, it almost feels like, had
• 56:43
  we had the Teresa Brewer one with, you know, Scooter and
• 56:46
  everything at the end, chaos. Yeah, you know, it's a good way
• 56:49
  to tie it off, to have Piggy go, like, I'm not doing this
• 56:52
  anymore, we're done. I'm out of here.
• 56:54
  Whereas yeah, we sort of end with this again, cliffhanger
• 56:59
  that's not a cliffhanger with chopped liver turning up and
• 57:03
  them trying to, you know, figure out what's going on.
• 57:07
  But I think I said earlier in the episode, Miss Piggy goes
• 57:12
  like she gives it her all again. Like at one point in this she
• 57:14
  like hides up against Link, like she's like she wants him to save
• 57:19
  her. Yeah, which doesn't feel like
• 57:23
  what Piggy would be doing at this point.
• 57:26
  Yeah, well, and it's funny because this, I guess the the
• 57:29
  real comedian in this, that the thing that every everything's
• 57:32
  turning towards is Link is obsessed with.
• 57:35
  He has a spot on his costume. Oh oh, I've got a bottle in my
• 57:40
  uniform. There it is.
• 57:47
  There it is right here by my upload.
• 57:49
  And so it actually puts Link into this like, stereotypically
• 57:52
  feminine position of caring more about his appearance than about
• 57:56
  the space battle that's currently going on around him.
• 57:59
  But it just yeah, this, which is cute, feel like.
• 58:02
  But yeah, this piggy doesn't get a lot to do.
• 58:04
  Doesn't feel like the piggy of. That we've gotten pigs in space
• 58:09
  the last few episodes. Yeah, just.
• 58:11
  I felt just a little bit of a oh, oh, that's how we're ending
• 58:14
  this. Yeah.
• 58:16
  Oh, OK then. Fair enough.
• 58:17
  Only saved by just how insane that chopped liver puppet is.
• 58:21
  Yes, exactly. Chopped liver from the planet
• 58:24
  Zabar. Yeah, it's just a just just a
• 58:29
  sponge. A dish sponge and some
• 58:31
  sunglasses. That's all he is.
• 58:34
  But yeah, I agree that that really kind of thematically.
• 58:37
  You know, if if they were, if they were running things for our
• 58:41
  benefit here for this particular podcast episode, yeah, the
• 58:44
  ending really is like Piggy just getting completely fed up with
• 58:49
  the swell Stroganoff and all of the like, woman jokes and pig
• 58:53
  jokes. And she basically destroys the
• 58:56
  entire thing. And then because this is where
• 58:59
  the run of like male chauvinist pig women jokes pretty much
• 59:04
  stops. You know, like we said, they're
• 59:06
  they're doing all the the science fiction stuff in
• 59:09
  starting in in Season 3. And so they they stopped doing
• 59:12
  the like women can't drive jokes and stuff.
• 59:16
  And so it does kind of feel like Piggy just got sick of it all.
• 59:19
  And she is, she is done with that and now we're going to do
• 59:22
  something else. And so that is the end of the
• 59:25
  Pigs in Space episodes for season 2.
• 59:27
  And what? What have we learned?
• 59:30
  We have learned that watching all of this from start to end,
• 59:35
  as I did last night, which, granted, didn't take anyone here
• 59:38
  as long as I thought it would. Yeah, because some of these
• 59:40
  sketches are about 45 seconds long.
• 59:43
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It it, it's a great example of
• 59:45
  seeing how Piggy changed over a season.
• 59:48
  Yeah. You you get that first episode
• 59:51
  where she's subordinate and she's very, yes, Captain,
• 59:54
  whatever, my captain. And in the end, she's breaking
• 59:56
  the sketch she's breaking, you know, Yeah.
• 1:00:02
  And just the you can, you can see Frank finding Piggy in these
• 1:00:06
  sketches, Yeah. And there are certain things
• 1:00:08
  that happen in these sketches that I think are still very
• 1:00:11
  prevalent in Miss Piggy's character today.
• 1:00:14
  And we also learnt that you shouldn't give Miss Piggy
• 1:00:16
  straight hair because at one in one of these episodes she has
• 1:00:19
  straight hair and it looks dreadful.
• 1:00:23
  Which? Which?
• 1:00:23
  Episode is that I didn't. Notice.
• 1:00:25
  Oh, I'm trying to remember. It was awful.
• 1:00:27
  It might have been the jettison episode.
• 1:00:30
  Whatever it was, it was just just had like long dead hair.
• 1:00:34
  It was terrible. I can't believe I missed that.
• 1:00:37
  Because really, that that should be the spirit of this podcast.
• 1:00:39
  Should be that The most important thing is how Miss
• 1:00:43
  Piggy's. Hair looks, yeah.
• 1:00:46
  That is true for basically the entire history of Miss Piggy,
• 1:00:49
  that she has good hair periods and bad hair periods.
• 1:00:53
  Oh yeah. It very much affect my opinion
• 1:00:55
  of like what's going on with The Muppets during that time.
• 1:01:00
  So one thing that I that I like about pigs in space is it gives
• 1:01:04
  Miss Piggy some new combatants, new people for her to react
• 1:01:08
  against and to fight against. That Piggy basically doesn't
• 1:01:11
  have friends. There are people who who she
• 1:01:15
  lusts after and there are people who she fights with and then
• 1:01:18
  basically everybody else who she just kind of tolerates.
• 1:01:21
  Yeah, this is now actually giving her those people that she
• 1:01:24
  can battle and react to and and have these like nice strong
• 1:01:29
  moments where she gets insulted and and she comes back with
• 1:01:32
  something. But there are also certain
• 1:01:35
  moments in in this sort of these pigs, in spaces where, and
• 1:01:42
  granted, maybe it's First Mate Piggy and not Miss Piggy like
• 1:01:46
  the actress Miss Piggy like. I'm sort of separating those
• 1:01:49
  two, where at least First Mate Piggy seems like she has a
• 1:01:52
  genuine respect for these two and a genuine fondness for these
• 1:01:58
  two. And so it's interesting, just
• 1:02:04
  sort of seeing again at the start.
• 1:02:06
  She's quite fond of them, even if they're idiots.
• 1:02:08
  She's like, you know what, I'm the smartest person in the room.
• 1:02:10
  I can kind of tolerate you guys like almost pitying them a
• 1:02:13
  little bit, but still quite respectful of them.
• 1:02:16
  She hugs Link, yeah, in that second sketch, which is unreal.
• 1:02:21
  Yeah, that. I can't say that ever happening
• 1:02:24
  again. No, Never again.
• 1:02:26
  Not even in a Pigs In Space sketch.
• 1:02:28
  Can I see that happening again? No.
• 1:02:29
  But it's the same as it's the same as, like, you look at Vet's
• 1:02:34
  Hospital. I love Piggy and that because
• 1:02:36
  Piggy's playing along with the jokes, like she's not too good
• 1:02:39
  for the puns, right? She plays along with them, she
• 1:02:42
  makes the stupid jokes and she sort of laughs along with the
• 1:02:46
  whole thing. And I found I've always found
• 1:02:49
  those sketches really interesting because again, and
• 1:02:51
  they don't feel like what Miss Piggy is, right?
• 1:02:54
  They feel like Miss Piggy playing a character.
• 1:02:58
  And so Piggy's maybe Piggy's just a really good actor.
• 1:03:01
  Maybe we don't give her enough credit.
• 1:03:03
  For just for the vet's hospital. Yeah, you're right.
• 1:03:05
  Just for the vet's hospital sketch.
• 1:03:07
  Yeah, yeah. It it would never have occurred
• 1:03:09
  to me to do an episode like this about Piggy and Vet's Hospital,
• 1:03:13
  because it's all the same. Yeah.
• 1:03:15
  And and something, well, something that I really like
• 1:03:17
  about Piggy and that I think helps to make her such a
• 1:03:20
  powerful and enduring character, is she always has a story.
• 1:03:25
  Like there's always conflict of some kind.
• 1:03:27
  You don't put Miss Piggy in a scene and she just stands there
• 1:03:30
  and says hi. And now Miss Piggy's in the
• 1:03:32
  scene, like just her being in the room means there's some kind
• 1:03:36
  of conflict going on. There is tension.
• 1:03:39
  And that's what she brings all the time to every scene.
• 1:03:42
  And really none of the other, you know, like you can imagine,
• 1:03:45
  you know, Kermit and Fozzie and Gonzo like hanging out and
• 1:03:48
  that's just like a chill time, you know, They're all they're,
• 1:03:50
  you know, The Muppets in general are all just kind of like having
• 1:03:52
  fun together. And as Piggy walks in and she's
• 1:03:56
  always got a narrative going on, yeah, and I do love that about
• 1:04:00
  her. Which is why I think another
• 1:04:04
  episode of that 2015 series I really liked was the one where
• 1:04:07
  she becomes friends with everyone.
• 1:04:10
  Yes. Yeah.
• 1:04:10
  Like, she goes out drinking with them and she does karaoke with
• 1:04:13
  them all, and all of a sudden she has, like, love and respect
• 1:04:18
  for her, you know? Yeah, he is.
• 1:04:20
  And you can actually see how, oh, maybe Piggy could actually
• 1:04:24
  be friends with these people. Yeah.
• 1:04:27
  And that's something I've always liked.
• 1:04:28
  Like, I liked her relationship with Scooter in that series
• 1:04:31
  because she seemed to have some sort of dynamic with Scooter.
• 1:04:36
  It's the same back in the day with her and Beauregard, like,
• 1:04:39
  both. I was an idiot.
• 1:04:39
  But she seemed to actually be a little bit fond of him.
• 1:04:43
  Yeah. There are times when she's very
• 1:04:44
  sweet to him. Yeah.
• 1:04:45
  So I think, I think it's possible for Piggy to be both,
• 1:04:54
  to be both the friendly pig and to be the karate chop and
• 1:05:00
  badass, Right. And we sort of, yeah, we do kind
• 1:05:04
  of see that both sides of that in these sketches, yeah.
• 1:05:08
  Yeah, I think it's interesting. The interesting thing with the
• 1:05:11
  with Beauregard is, is she's nice to him because he is so
• 1:05:15
  subordinate. He is so much lower.
• 1:05:16
  He's, you know, not just the the Jenner and handyman, but he's
• 1:05:20
  he's a moron in every possible way.
• 1:05:22
  And so it's possible for her to do that because she doesn't.
• 1:05:25
  She doesn't punch down no piggy punches.
• 1:05:28
  She punches all the time. Yeah.
• 1:05:31
  But she's always punching up. She's always punching at like
• 1:05:33
  somebody who's trying to put her down.
• 1:05:35
  Yeah. Who's trying to insult her?
• 1:05:37
  Yeah. Yeah, but she's got at least
• 1:05:39
  that respect for, I guess, the people that are under her.
• 1:05:42
  Yeah, most of the time. And I think here in in Pigs and
• 1:05:47
  Spaces is the place where where they basically invented some new
• 1:05:52
  ways for her to interact with people that kind of lead to that
• 1:05:54
  kind of development later on. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:05:58
  And they made a lunch box about it.
• 1:06:00
  Jared, thank you so much for joining me today.
• 1:06:03
  This has really been fun. This has been great talking
• 1:06:04
  about this. I appreciate it.
• 1:06:07
  This has been this has been something I've wanted to do for
• 1:06:12
  a long time. I think talk about pigs in space
• 1:06:14
  and just it's been nice to focus on Piggy, like somehow she
• 1:06:19
  doesn't get the spotlight she deserves on a website called
• 1:06:22
  Tough Pigs. I know this is this is the thing
• 1:06:24
  I'm trying to correct. Well, I mean it.
• 1:06:26
  It makes sense for, I guess, the creator of tough talk about the
• 1:06:30
  toughest pig of all, yes. Exactly what would you like to
• 1:06:34
  plug as we wrap up? Oh, what would I like to plug?
• 1:06:37
  I mean toughpigs.com. So you can.
• 1:06:41
  Yeah. Well I've.
• 1:06:42
  I've, I was going to say thank you.
• 1:06:43
  But you made it. So you can go and listen to to
• 1:06:48
  introduce our guests there, which is a podcast.
• 1:06:50
  Didn't know who we're going to be interviewing.
• 1:06:51
  Like we would surprise each other with guests.
• 1:06:54
  And that's some of my favorite stuff I've ever done.
• 1:06:56
  I mean we've got Dave Golds, Bill Beretta, Eric Jacobson.
• 1:07:00
  We finished with Frank Oz, which was one of the weirdest days of
• 1:07:05
  my life. That was a great episode.
• 1:07:08
  I I spoke to Frank Oz and an hour and a half later was under
• 1:07:12
  anaesthetic getting a kidney stone removed so and he was very
• 1:07:17
  and he was very supportive. He was very supportive and I
• 1:07:21
  should say I don't think we ever publicly said this.
• 1:07:25
  He actually, like followed up with me, just made sure I was OK
• 1:07:29
  Like about 24 hours later he sent Joe an e-mail, said hey,
• 1:07:33
  just wanted to check in with Jared, see how he's feeling.
• 1:07:36
  Oh, that's really so. What a lovely, lovely man.
• 1:07:38
  Yeah. And what a great podcast.
• 1:07:41
  What a great door. Thank you.
• 1:07:42
  I appreciate it. Yeah, that's one of my favorite
• 1:07:43
  things I've done. So go and listen to that.
• 1:07:46
  I've got some ideas for future podcasts.
• 1:07:49
  I've got something I'm working on at the moment.
• 1:07:51
  Not a Pigs in Space one, but an idea that I've had in my head
• 1:07:54
  for about 6 months. So we'll see if that comes to
• 1:07:57
  pass. All right.
• 1:07:58
  I'm excited to find out what that is.
• 1:08:01
  Coming up next on this podcast, I'll be talking with Becca
• 1:08:03
  Petunia from The Muppet Quiz Show podcast Haba Wah.
• 1:08:06
  We'll be talking about some amazing interviews and
• 1:08:08
  appearances from 1977 and 1978 that are foundational for Miss
• 1:08:12
  Piggy and for our civilization as a whole.
• 1:08:15
  So kissy, kissy. And thank you for listening to
• 1:08:18
  this episode of the Fantastic Miss Piggy Podcast, brought to
• 1:08:20
  you by toughpigs.com. If you have comments or
• 1:08:23
  questions or you know stuff about Miss Piggy that you'd like
• 1:08:25
  to share, you can write to me at fantasticmisspiggy@gmail.com.
• 1:08:29
  That's Fantastic Miss Piggy at Gmail.
• 1:08:31
  I'm also on X at Fantastic Miss P And I'm Blue Sky at Danny
• 1:08:35
  Horn. Or come and join us on The Tough
• 1:08:37
  Pigs Discord. Thanks everyone.
• 1:08:39
  I'll see you next time. Gee, I'd like to see you looking
• 1:08:44
  swell, baby. Diamond bracelets.
• 1:08:49
  Woolworth doesn't sell baby till that lucky day.
• 1:08:58
  You know that. Well, baby, I can't give you
• 1:09:05
  anything but love.