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After the Acquisition: Rebrand or Leave It Alone? · Owned and Operated - A Plumbing, Electrical, and HVAC Business Growth Podcast

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Today we're talking rebranding.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: You don't need branding, man.
0:03
SPEAKER_00: Like you can grow a big business without branding.
0:05
SPEAKER_00: This will cause disruption.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: Is the juice worth the squeeze?
0:08
SPEAKER_00: When we start to think about rebranding, where are the benefits start to pop out at?
0:12
SPEAKER_02: The big thing for me has been are the people excited to work here.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: One team, one dream, baby.
0:18
SPEAKER_02: We are just building one big business.
0:21
SPEAKER_02: You're sort of like running the bus on this.
0:22
SPEAKER_02: So, like, how do you think about this is going to go down?
0:24
SPEAKER_00: I've tried branding, and the reason that we never did branding before is we just burned money.
0:35
SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to Own and Operated, a top 200 business uh podcast.
0:40
SPEAKER_02: I'm joined by my good friend today, Jack Carr, a top 150 US business podcast, as he has enjoyed reminding me over this past fit over this past week.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: Congrats on that.
0:50
SPEAKER_02: That's freaking huge, dude.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
0:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, welcome back to a solid way to start.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: No, it was uh Tony Robbins.
0:58
SPEAKER_00: It's like my face next to Tony Robbins' face, which is the weirdest thing.
1:02
SPEAKER_00: Like I never would have thought that would have happened.
1:03
SPEAKER_00: We're famous.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: We're famous.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: Um, I told you the other day I got got spotted at the gym.
1:09
SPEAKER_00: That is crazy.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is weird.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: Z list celebrity status.
1:12
SPEAKER_02: Z-list.
1:13
SPEAKER_02: And you were getting like you were getting yoked.
1:15
SPEAKER_02: Spotted and yoked.
1:17
SPEAKER_00: It comes with zero benefits.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: There are no benefits.
1:20
SPEAKER_02: That uh that's hilarious.
1:21
SPEAKER_02: Anyways, on this show, we talk home service, we talk about how to grow home service, and uh we generally have a lot of fun doing it.
1:29
SPEAKER_02: So today we're talking rebranding.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Why are we talking rebranding, John?
1:33
SPEAKER_02: Why are we to why are we talking rebranding, Jack?
1:37
SPEAKER_02: You have any plans to do any rebranding?
1:39
SPEAKER_02: I do have some plans to do some rebranding.
1:41
SPEAKER_02: So we've we have bought we have bought uh 14 uh businesses now.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: We closed on another one last week.
1:51
SPEAKER_02: If you are keeping score from your car, that was our fourth one this year.
1:56
SPEAKER_02: We actually are thinking about putting our fifth one under contract here uh early this week or next.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: So look out.
2:03
SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, which that's pretty cool.
2:05
SPEAKER_02: We have like a nice, a nice pipeline, which is awesome.
2:08
SPEAKER_02: And um as we as we are doing this, we have now uh five brands that we're working with, which is a lot.
2:18
SPEAKER_02: And so we're starting to think about okay, when should we rebrand?
2:22
SPEAKER_02: Who should we rebrand?
2:24
SPEAKER_02: Um, and like should we rebrand at all?
2:27
SPEAKER_02: Which I think is a kind of a reasonable question.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of P aggregators out there that don't rebrand.
2:33
SPEAKER_02: They uh they build like, you know, they have 20 brands or um you know however many in their in their business.
2:40
SPEAKER_02: But um yeah, so like what do you think?
2:42
SPEAKER_02: Why rebrand at all?
2:43
SPEAKER_02: We we actually had a really similar conversation with Rich Jordan six months ago.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: Most don't rebrand.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, interestingly enough, yeah, Rich and I talked about this at SM Bash quite a bit as well.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: So I'm I mean there's there's some definite uh to put some guardrails on both sides of it, right?
2:59
SPEAKER_00: There's some definite times to rebrand and there's some definite times not to rebrand, right?
3:04
SPEAKER_00: So starting off with definite times to rebrand is really small tuckens that have zero brand whatsoever, you know, sub 400,000 in in top line.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: There's nothing there.
3:17
SPEAKER_00: Like if you're buying that business and merging it into yours, right?
3:20
SPEAKER_00: There's no I have done that on Tuesday.
3:23
SPEAKER_00: It takes it takes a week, like don't even worry about it.
3:26
SPEAKER_00: Just rebrand, rip it, and call it a day.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: So that's the easy ones.
3:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, right?
3:31
SPEAKER_00: Nobody cares about Joe's Mechanical if it had 200 customers.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: Like, and if they did, they're probably not going to become your customers.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: So it's it's not a it's a win-win either way.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then on the other side of that coin is um the don't rebrands, and that's I think for this podcast, like Apex, like all these big the big I don't know of any big uh consolidators that are rebranding.
3:55
SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't know.
3:58
SPEAKER_02: I I mean I I think uh they they neighborly be like the old underneath they do potentially underneath so like the way to think about uh if it's private equity, there's like there's apex and then there's a company apex owns.
4:15
SPEAKER_02: Like I think Frank Gay in Florida is Apex.
4:17
SPEAKER_02: So they've got Apex, Apex does not rebrand.
4:21
SPEAKER_02: If Frank Gay buys a company, they probably rebrand.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: That that's how I would assume that that happens.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
4:29
SPEAKER_00: Pioneer here in Middle Tennessee bought Frog, they bought Pioneer in East Tennessee, they bought something in Chattanooga, and they all turned it into Pioneer.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: So Pioneer is their flagship brand here in Tennessee that has all been rebranded from other companies or was the original platform, but still.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: Um, so that makes sense.
4:46
SPEAKER_00: So there's a level at which you come down to and if if the portfolio company is doing a uh tuck-in, they they do the rebrand.
4:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
4:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then I think it doesn't make sense if you're talking about, you know, hey, you own something in Florida and you bought something in California.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that one's pretty easy to probably don't want to rebrand it just because there's less of um benefits and efficiencies.
5:09
SPEAKER_00: Just because the locale is different, you're not going to um I mean you might see a few, but really I don't think you're gonna get that many.
5:16
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5:20
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5:22
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5:26
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5:29
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5:55
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5:58
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I I don't I don't think so.
6:00
SPEAKER_02: I think um, yeah, and there and there's other versions that do rebrand.
6:07
SPEAKER_02: So uh like ghetto under private equity ownership, rebranded.
6:12
SPEAKER_02: Uh they sold, I think pretty early.
6:14
SPEAKER_02: They sold at uh two or three million of Ibadah and 30 million of revenue, so like kind of early on in their journey.
6:21
SPEAKER_02: And they re I think they did like 10 or 15 acquisitions and they rebranded all of them to ghetto.
6:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh Peterman's done a bunch of acquisitions they've rebranded, Caldad's got done acquisitions they've rebranded, Pascal's done a lot of acquisitions they've rebranded.
6:34
SPEAKER_02: Um, I'm sure there's more, but those are the ones that come to mind.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: Uh, so like either one is fine.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: I think you have to figure out like what are you building?
6:44
SPEAKER_02: And rebranding has friction.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: Is the friction worth it?
6:48
SPEAKER_02: And that's really the question that you should be asking yourself.
6:52
SPEAKER_02: Isn't do I rebrand or not?
6:54
SPEAKER_02: It's like it this will cause disruption.
6:58
SPEAKER_02: Is the juice worth the squeeze?
7:02
SPEAKER_00: So why not keep every company under its original operating name?
7:06
SPEAKER_00: Where where when we start to think about rebranding, where the benefits start to pop out at?
7:12
SPEAKER_02: I think there's some there are some real uh dollar and cents costs, and then there's a there's an intangible cost.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: And I think the intangible cost is ultimately the biggest needle mover for me.
7:31
SPEAKER_02: Um so dollars and cents, it is just hard to manage a lot of brands.
7:36
SPEAKER_02: Uh it's disruptive, it's confusing.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: Um your marketing team is like you're not gonna drive incredible creative or brand building activity with five brands.
7:51
SPEAKER_02: Like you're just gonna do the lowest effort thing to fill their boards, which can work and you can still build a big business, it just might not be the best business that you could have built.
8:01
SPEAKER_02: So it's like a min-max problem, I think.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: Um, like, are you maximizing your opportunity or are you uh or are you not?
8:09
SPEAKER_02: And I think um if that's all that you're looking at, I do think it's harder to rationalize a rebrand when that's the math is like it's a little bit of cut cost, it's kind of a distraction.
8:25
SPEAKER_02: Um I don't know.
8:27
SPEAKER_02: I I think if that was the only equation, I don't know that I would rebrand.
8:31
SPEAKER_02: I do think it would get more and more complicated uh as you added more locations.
8:37
SPEAKER_02: Like we're at five locations now, and it would get complicated to run five individual brands.
8:45
SPEAKER_02: So I think you would do exactly what we just said.
8:47
SPEAKER_02: We're like, hey, okay, in Nashville, Rapid's the brand, so anything in Nashville becomes rapid.
8:53
SPEAKER_02: And in Fort Wayne, PG or MERS the brand, so they become the brand.
8:59
SPEAKER_02: So uh yeah.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: To take that a step further, too, which I find super interesting, is uh, and what I vastly underestimated was from uh running marketing personally as a smaller company, right?
9:11
SPEAKER_00: When you're running marketing spend for plumbing, when you're running marketing spend for electrical, when you're running marketing spend for HVAC, that's all three different copies a lot of times, right?
9:20
SPEAKER_00: Because you're running specialties for Wilson Electrical, the bOGO deals, and then you're running water heater flushes for Wilson.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: And then now at Rapid, you're running water heater flushes and you're running bog.
9:33
SPEAKER_00: So what I what I find is the interesting part too, from a marketing perspective, is the consolidation of being able to run, like, hey, we can run these same campaigns, and all we do is click additional geographies to start feeling bored rather than um hey, we're running like six different businesses across two brands, or if you're running five brands, like you're running right, you can the the math starts to add up really, really quickly.
9:59
SPEAKER_00: Like you're running 30 different campaigns across five different brands, which is crazy.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: It's a lot.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: I I think a lot.
10:05
SPEAKER_02: I think marketing is really the one that it uh overcomplicates the most.
10:09
SPEAKER_02: It is because like from an accounting perspective, you don't really notice it.
10:14
SPEAKER_02: Like it's all just ends up in the same bank account for Service Titan.
10:18
SPEAKER_02: It all ends up in the same thing, or House Call Pro or Field Pulse, or like where wherever it's going, it it can it can end up wherever, uh, but marketing is the most complicated, and then like uniforms and yeah, I think ultimately the big thing for me has been internally what are we building and are the people excited to work here?
10:42
SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's the intangible that I would say is really hard to there.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: Probably is a way to put math to that.
10:49
SPEAKER_02: I don't know how to do it, but it it's been interesting.
10:53
SPEAKER_02: Like when we went down and we partnered with Jack here in Rapid, and we went down and talked to his team, and uh like his team was excited to be a part of something bigger, but they felt like they were on the outside of something bigger, like it was a different one step removed.
11:14
SPEAKER_00: One step removed.
11:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:16
SPEAKER_02: And I think that that that really resonated with me.
11:19
SPEAKER_02: And then when I talked to other people and just like in in brands that we had brought on, just like, hey, what do you think?
11:25
SPEAKER_02: What do you think about like your legacy brand, or like would you rather be Wilson or whatever?
11:29
SPEAKER_02: And it was a resounding, we would rather be Wilson.
11:33
SPEAKER_02: Like, we just wanna like we want to be a part of this thing.
11:37
SPEAKER_02: And I think that when you think of the call dads and the Pascals and the Ghettles and these people that are like highly successful multi-location, like culture was a very big part, it's an intangible, hard to measure for private equity part of the equation that I think that rebranding does right by.
11:58
SPEAKER_02: I think that it makes you one team, whereas you're literally not one team under a bunch of different brands, or if you are, it's very hard to get there because internally it's very easy to say, oh, down at Rapid, over at Wilson, hey, over there at Buddies, like it's just harder to get everyone to line on like one team, one dream, baby.
12:22
SPEAKER_02: So one team one dream.
12:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is.
12:24
SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's it's harder.
12:26
SPEAKER_02: Uh so I think that that's like the intangible that can be done well.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: I think along the same lines, too, is uh for most people who are actually going through this process or thinking about going through this process, right?
12:40
SPEAKER_00: There's another aspect to it, it and that is the maturation, the maturity level of the brands.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: So you bought five companies, but none of those companies, and for the most part, anybody buying any smaller company, the maturity of the brand you're buying is not going to be at the same level of the maturity of your current brand.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: And so the ability to um not only step up your brand game like day one, and what what does brand do in a market brand?
13:09
SPEAKER_00: It gives you and your customers, you know, more trust.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: They see the that they believe that you're a bigger, more responsible business.
13:16
SPEAKER_00: Like there's a lot of things there that aren't necessarily just only cultural related from an intangible side.
13:22
SPEAKER_00: Like there, there's a trust factor, there's a um size of your company factor that I mean we have Hiller in our market.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: Hiller's known to be like gout, allegedly known to be gouging, price gouging, or at one point was price gouging, um, allegedly.
13:38
SPEAKER_00: Um but it's alleged.
13:39
SPEAKER_00: The consumer alleged, but the consumer still chose them because they trusted.
13:45
SPEAKER_00: And when you ask them, they're like, hey, I just wanted it taken care of.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: Like, and I knew the big company was gonna handle me, like get it taken care of, less friction, less issues.
13:55
SPEAKER_00: We don't trust the small guy.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: And so I think that there's an intangible side too from a customer standpoint, but also from your team standpoint, is they feel like, again, back to culture, that they're part of something bigger and they're there's more belief behind, right?
14:10
SPEAKER_00: Because sales is there's a lot of internal battles in sales.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I think that that helps push internally uh the sales uh service and salespeople to believe in themselves and believe in the product a little bit more, which is interesting.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: Uh I think so too.
14:24
SPEAKER_02: But I think maybe most importantly, hard to measure.
14:27
SPEAKER_00: Hard to measure, very hard to measure.
14:28
SPEAKER_00: I think Rich Rich actually had something on this at SM Bash though, and he said he saw like a 10% increase in closure rate when he rebranded within like 60 days.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: I can see it.
14:38
SPEAKER_00: So like he was actually able to measure his close rate increasing over uh and and I'm I'm butchering it.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: There was a certain time frame and a certain percentage increase.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: But I remember leaving his workshop thinking that's ridiculous.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: 10% over 30 or 60 days just because you changed your brand is wild.
14:59
SPEAKER_00: Like nothing else changed.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: Maybe some training.
15:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm sure, yeah, I'm sure training.
15:04
SPEAKER_02: Well, call center.
15:05
SPEAKER_02: I think there was a lot of other things because they centralized a lot.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: Uh the way that this helps us to think about it is um what are we building?
15:16
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I like the idea of we are just building one big business.
15:22
SPEAKER_02: That's what we're here to build.
15:23
SPEAKER_02: We're here to build one big business.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: And when you think about it like that, it helps to break down some of the should we, shouldn't we into yeah, this just makes sense.
15:33
SPEAKER_02: Like this is the best business decision.
15:35
SPEAKER_02: This just makes sense.
15:36
SPEAKER_02: So let's talk about how to actually do it.
15:38
SPEAKER_02: And Rich actually did this um not that long ago.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: Uh, he just went through and did a big rebrand.
15:46
SPEAKER_00: So let's yeah, because rebranding doesn't necessarily right mean that you are buying somebody and rebranding them.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: You could also rebrand your entire company just because you didn't like your current brand.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: Like we could rebrand Rapid Response into Billy Van Thorn's plumbing.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: That's a brand Nashville, baby.
16:09
SPEAKER_00: Nashville.
16:11
SPEAKER_02: The uniform is only a mullet.
16:14
unknown: Yeah.
16:15
SPEAKER_00: Everybody must everyone must have a mullet.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be rough for it.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be good.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, so so you said Rich did this recently.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, you've done this at some point in your past.
16:26
SPEAKER_02: We've rebranded so many times it's been ridiculous.
16:29
SPEAKER_02: Now, the only thing that's different right now is we're we're talking about rebranding in markets that Wilson doesn't have a presence.
16:35
SPEAKER_02: So it's really like what we have to think about is do what we is what we bring to the table better than what the current team brings to the table?
16:44
SPEAKER_02: Yes, no.
16:44
SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it's no.
16:46
SPEAKER_02: And is it still worth it because of the team unity that we will experience?
16:54
SPEAKER_02: And it's no longer us versus them, it's branch.
16:57
SPEAKER_02: It's like and it's like one company.
16:59
SPEAKER_02: And I think that that's the I think that that's the part that we're gonna get the most value from is uh because really like to me, that's the reason that I want to do this, is like everyone's aligned.
17:13
SPEAKER_02: We can pick up the phone the same, we can answer the same, scripting's the same, tech stack is the same.
17:18
SPEAKER_02: It's just like one we are building one big thing.
17:20
SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the mentality of like, what are you building?
17:23
SPEAKER_02: Well, we'll we're building one big thing.
17:25
SPEAKER_02: So, how do we get everyone aligned on the one big thing that we're building?
17:28
SPEAKER_02: All right, so how do we actually do it?
17:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh, you have you you've done this, like how'd you do it?
17:32
SPEAKER_00: So we've never done it on a big level, though.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: We've only done it on a like, hey, tuck-in, smaller, like the biggest one we tucked in was 2.2 million in in top line.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I think it's different when you do a tuck-in versus one of that size versus like a larger company.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Like some of yours, if you were to go and and do an and rebrand tomorrow, you would have no issue, right?
17:57
SPEAKER_00: Because again, they don't have a brand, they might have a few hundred people who follow them and like them on Facebook or whatever, but overall, like it's not a brand.
18:08
SPEAKER_00: So there you were saying rebrand, but it's actually like initial brand, initial branding a company.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I mean, do you want to go into tuckens and like how easy that is, or do you want to just go from a higher level?
18:21
SPEAKER_00: Because I, you know, I think that we've we've beat the dead horse here on Tuckens in the past.
18:25
SPEAKER_02: Okay, so yeah, higher level, I think.
18:27
SPEAKER_02: Um I'll I'll just say what we've done.
18:30
SPEAKER_02: Uh, it's a little bit different than what I think we're thinking about doing, but you know, what we've done in the past is depending on the age of the truck, we don't re-wrap it.
18:37
SPEAKER_02: Like we really changed the GBPs, we changed the uniforms, we changed the scripting and service titan, we change the phone script, we just let everyone know what happened.
18:46
SPEAKER_02: We send out letters, SMS, email, all that stuff.
18:49
SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, here's what happened.
18:50
SPEAKER_02: We joined forces with X, we partnered with X, and um, yeah, it's to me, it's not that complicated.
18:59
SPEAKER_02: If a vehicle's newer, like one or two years old, we will rewrap it.
19:02
SPEAKER_02: So, like, we're gonna re-wrap pretty much the whole fleet, I think, at uh in Nashville, and I think that'll be sweet.
19:10
SPEAKER_02: Um, there's some older vehicles in Fort Wayne that like we're probably not gonna rebrand because they're like 10 years old.
19:15
SPEAKER_02: So we'll probably just like run those vans out and then we replace them and they brand them Wilson.
19:20
SPEAKER_02: I actually think you have your first Wilson branded truck coming down this week.
19:24
SPEAKER_02: I think Jeremy's driving it back.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we do, and then I've driving back the second one next week.
19:30
SPEAKER_02: Mavericks, right?
19:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, get them mavericks.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm pumped.
19:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that'll be sweet.
19:36
SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, that I mean to me it's not over, it's not like it hasn't been that complicated.
19:43
SPEAKER_02: Uh changing GBP names, changing phone scripting, letting customers know.
19:50
SPEAKER_02: Um, I don't know.
19:52
SPEAKER_02: For most of the businesses, I mean, we've rebranded so we've bought 14 and we've rebranded nine.
19:59
SPEAKER_02: Uh and in nine of them, like the customers really did not care.
20:03
SPEAKER_02: Like one of them, the customers cared.
20:06
SPEAKER_02: Uh yeah, but it was mainly like they didn't care about the brand, they cared that the brand used to charge half of market price, and we didn't, we just charged market price.
20:17
SPEAKER_02: So they're like, Well, come on, you ruined them.
20:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm like, Yeah, I don't know.
20:22
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21:02
SPEAKER_00: Let me ask you a question though, about that, because again, some I've heard other going through this.
21:09
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there there's been a few people who've gone through rebrands recently.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: And one of the big questions that I had was there was an individual who believed that um so we I think you and I have done very similar rebranding in that we kind of just rip it and go from there, maybe change the like you said, the intro on the phone, change the website, change the GB GMB, uh, change all the marketing materials.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: But there was an individual who actually didn't change any of the frontward facing um information.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: And they only let people know as the phone call came in.
21:42
SPEAKER_00: And so their their idea behind that was they wanted to be the one to have to to face the objection.
21:50
SPEAKER_00: Do you what do you think about that versus kind of the ways you've done it historically?
21:54
SPEAKER_02: We've done both.
21:54
SPEAKER_02: Uh like we still have the old GBPs from businesses that we bought.
21:58
SPEAKER_02: Like we have a G we have a historic.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: Is kind of wild.
22:00
SPEAKER_02: I mean, GBPs are crazy.
22:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh, like we bought a bit a business back in 2021 and we paid 800 grand for it.
22:07
SPEAKER_02: Not even the customer base, the techs, the trucks, anything.
22:10
SPEAKER_02: The GBP alone produces millions of dollars a year of revenue.
22:17
SPEAKER_02: Like it is wild.
22:19
SPEAKER_02: And it to be honest, it's almost like it's got it's like matured.
22:22
SPEAKER_02: Like it produces more today as a GBP for a brand that we haven't had in years than it ever did for the seller.
22:31
SPEAKER_02: Like when we bought the business, I think they were doing two million.
22:33
SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty sure that GBP did three and a half last year.
22:36
SPEAKER_02: Like it's crazy.
22:38
SPEAKER_02: Uh so to me, like, yeah, I think leaving a GBP alone like is okay.
22:44
SPEAKER_02: Like, I think you can do it.
22:45
SPEAKER_02: We've done it both ways.
22:46
SPEAKER_02: We've left GBPs alone, we've transitioned them to Wilson.
22:48
SPEAKER_02: I don't know that there's like a right or wrong answer.
22:51
SPEAKER_02: I do think the more GBPs the better.
22:53
SPEAKER_02: So, like, whatever lets you keep more GBPs, I think is great.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, interesting.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I mean, what about like so same idea, but what about like re website redirects?
23:03
SPEAKER_00: So, again, we uh I it's a great example.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: Like Rapid has a terrible, terrible website URL, um, which I hate.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: So I'm happy to get rid of it.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: But like, is that something that you think that you would plan on leaving up in the hopes that if somebody remembered that URL at one point, that they would then go to that URL and not we buy the domain and redirect it.
23:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I think we redirect it to a lander of like here's what happened.
23:31
SPEAKER_02: Calls for 25 bucks off or something like that.
23:33
SPEAKER_02: Usually we put like a trius coupon.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's interesting because that that's what the individual is saying is that they didn't do that, that they let they just let you call, the go to the website, let you call thinking it was rap, and then like, hey, oh, we've done it both ways.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: And we like we were.
23:46
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we have the old GBPs up, they call in, we say, Hey, it's Wilson.
23:49
SPEAKER_02: They're like, Oh, I thought I called central.
23:50
SPEAKER_02: And we're like, Hey, cool.
23:51
SPEAKER_02: Like, here's what happened five years ago.
23:53
SPEAKER_00: Uh so we've done it both ways, but it's do you see any difference, or is it just really negligible?
23:59
SPEAKER_00: I I don't think it matters.
24:00
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it'll be really interesting to see what happens in a new market.
24:03
SPEAKER_02: Like, I think like you guys are hitting it really hard.
24:06
SPEAKER_02: Like, what's your so you're sort of like running the bus on this?
24:08
SPEAKER_02: So, like, what do you think?
24:09
SPEAKER_02: How do you think about this is gonna go down?
24:11
SPEAKER_00: I think that it's gonna go down pretty smoothly.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm not actually worried.
24:14
SPEAKER_02: We I just as far as like what do you think like what's the tactical?
24:18
SPEAKER_02: Like what are you guys doing?
24:20
SPEAKER_02: Or how long do you think it's gonna take?
24:22
SPEAKER_02: Like 30, 60, 90?
24:24
SPEAKER_02: Less than 30.
24:25
SPEAKER_02: All like all trucks wrapped less than 30?
24:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I mean just like on so when I'm when I think about uh like rebranding presence, I think about it's it's online marketing, right?
24:37
SPEAKER_00: So what we are we are planning on doing is replacing our online marketing.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: None of our we have six wrapped trucks.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: Like, so you're talking about like all your trucks wrapped?
24:46
SPEAKER_00: Like they aren't anyway.
24:47
SPEAKER_00: We don't have a brand.
24:48
SPEAKER_00: Like it is we got to eight million on track for eight million with no brand.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: And I'm convinced that people don't actually know that about myself.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like yeah, it is kind of crazy.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: Like you can just buy the leader.
25:02
SPEAKER_00: Well, I get so I I get in I get in arguments all the time with uh people like, hey, branding, you don't need branding, man.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: Like you can grow a big business without branding, and everybody on twit Twitter's like, no, Jack, you're wrong.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: You're wrong.
25:13
SPEAKER_00: That's because you're wrong.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: And it's like you can build a business with branding, but you can also build a business without branding in many home service industries.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: Like you don't need a brand.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: You would be so surprised by how many people don't know you.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: Even your own customers don't know.
25:30
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're we're interviewing for a CFO, and there was a guy 10 minutes away down the road, and we invest in a lot of branding activity and non-branding, uh, Lee gen, and he didn't know who we were, and he's 10 minutes down the road.
25:41
SPEAKER_02: It's just like it is what it is.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: I think we get so consumed with we're in the industry, so we know everyone else, and we see all their branding, and so we're like, oh, branding, brandy, brandy.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: But like, if you were when's the last time that you saw like the sweets, like a bakery truck, and you're like, Oh, that's my bakery truck.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: When when your birthday comes around, like you just don't.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know of anyone.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I don't know any billboards, I don't know, I don't remember anything off the top of my head from a branding perspective, unless it's like maybe a catchy jingle.
26:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, but point being is so for us, I think we just rip it in under 30.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: We change everything over, we let our entire um customer base know.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: We text them, SMS, we send them an email, we probably maybe send them a mailer, and then we rip it and change it.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we change the uniforms, we leave probably a few of the wrap trucks, and then we wrap a few per month as it comes along and as as funds are available.
26:37
SPEAKER_00: Like it's not that complicated from my end.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: I don't think.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: How many trucks are down there?
26:41
SPEAKER_00: Like, make sure to have yeah, 18, 19.
26:44
SPEAKER_02: I don't think that'll be bad because I'm pretty sure Mavericks only cost like two grand to wrap.
26:48
SPEAKER_02: So like 40 grand, that won't be bad.
26:52
SPEAKER_02: It's a one-time.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, doesn't even count.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean, like, that's that's the plan.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: And like I said, I don't think it's gonna I think it'll help our business overall.
27:03
SPEAKER_02: Um I think the where where it's gonna help is the the team culture and feeling like we're all a part of something.
27:11
SPEAKER_02: That is like it would it was just so interesting to talk to like members of the team.
27:17
SPEAKER_02: We're at 229 or 30 now today, and which is crazy.
27:21
SPEAKER_02: Like we were at 160, like in December.
27:23
SPEAKER_02: And um, and just like asking them, like, hey, what do you think about this?
27:28
SPEAKER_02: And it was there was no hesitation from a single person, like they all want one, they want to work for one, they they want to be a part of that big thing and be a part of the journey.
27:39
SPEAKER_02: So uh it was it was cool how there's not many decisions that I feel like I get to make that are just like so fucking black and white.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: So it was fun that this one was like, oh well, that's obvious that's an easy.
27:53
SPEAKER_02: You know, I asked 10 people, they all said the exact same thing.
27:55
SPEAKER_02: That was an easy one.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: Knock that off the list.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, and and on the back end, right?
28:02
SPEAKER_00: I think that that the creation of the brand and the ability to move forward with, like you said, it's 40 grand wrath of trucks, but like everything else, like if we have if we want to go ahead and do again uh ads on on um the radio in the next six months, like we don't have to create that copy.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's all done.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: You already have that.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: TV's done.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna give out pamphlets.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: You already have that.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: If I if I want to do door hangers, guess what?
28:29
SPEAKER_00: You guys already have that.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: And so, like, the nice part is the ability to recycle all this material that like we would have to generate from scratch that's untested, doesn't work, blah blah blah, uh, and do multiple iterations.
28:44
SPEAKER_00: And now, like, it's just easy.
28:46
SPEAKER_00: It's a button per press rather than like, hey, we need to record and get a graphic designer and like do A B testing.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: Like, you don't have to do that anymore.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: And like, I think that's a huge part as you start to think about brand moving forward in an area where everybody else has giant brands.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, because I've tried branding, and the reason that we never did branding before is we just burned money.
29:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's uh I I honestly would have gotten more out of burning money, I would have been warm in the winter.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: Um I I think it'd be nice to like as I think about um I I think the size that we're at, like, we should not invest in the marketing capabilities that like would be fun uh to have, like we could do it, but I just don't think it'd be a good financial decision.
29:35
SPEAKER_02: I think we could do it at like 100 or 120.
29:38
SPEAKER_02: So like maybe in a couple years, let's go.
29:40
SPEAKER_02: But um, I think being able to uh like even take that another step for further.
29:48
SPEAKER_02: Like, hey, if we in at the end of 2026, 27, do we have 10 locations and uh maybe like a hundred and million of revenue at 10 locations?
30:00
SPEAKER_02: And okay, at that size, like one person doing meta-creative across 10 locations, 100 of revenue kind of makes a lot of sense.
30:11
SPEAKER_02: And really like pushing hard just on that one channel, or like I don't think that buying mass media makes much sense at 100 yet, but maybe like 150 or two, where like that could just be someone's role is like distributing that across the markets we're in to drive density, but again, all easier with one brand.
30:29
SPEAKER_02: But I think like the further we get into the nine figures, a lot of this starts to become easier and easier, or just like more straightforward.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, the interesting part too is like geographically how you connect and get closer.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: So, like Peterman Brothers, I think is a great example, is that their branches are all an hour, then you're an hour from that, and then you're an hour from that.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: And so you have this kind of spider web of branding effect that takes places as you kind of grow, like the brand grows, and then that actually grows the brand.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that's what's exciting is the ability to like hey, go up to eventually like Louisville or Elizabeth Town, and they're like, Oh, we know the Wilson brand because we've seen their trucks because we have a spot in Bowling Green, we have a spot in Cincinnati.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: And so, like, you've naturally kind of brought branding through historically.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: So it'll be interesting to see that that's that's what I'm excited about, is that would be kind of fun to watch that spider web out.
31:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I think so.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: Even even though the downside is it does have the name of like this one this one guy that you know it's kind of a jerk sometimes.
31:37
SPEAKER_02: So he's he's a little bit of a turd on the internet.
31:39
SPEAKER_02: Um, I agree.
31:41
SPEAKER_02: Uh, how do you want to wrap this?
31:46
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, man.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: I think we'll we'll have to the circle back on this one after it's done, which would be kind of cool.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: Was it shitty?
31:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:52
SPEAKER_00: Couple months away from each other, circle back and we'll see how we can do it.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna make some quality LinkedIn posts.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: Here's what Jack messed up on his rebranding.
32:00
SPEAKER_02: Okay, it wasn't gonna be a dunk.
32:02
SPEAKER_02: It was more like here's like, hey, hey, Wilson's in Nashville, or what you know.
32:07
SPEAKER_02: I feel like that would that would also help to drive like, oh, this is moving.
32:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: But yeah, the fun, the fun little note, the most recent update from this past week, we went from uh one to five locations in under six months.
32:25
SPEAKER_02: And five is officially the largest amount of branches that I've ever personally run.
32:29
SPEAKER_02: So we are so I I don't know if that's a good record or a bad record for me.
32:34
SPEAKER_02: Uh it is gonna consolidate back to four.
32:36
SPEAKER_02: Like we're gonna combine two of them, but for about 90 days, we have five.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's so cool, that's so wild.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: And like as somebody who who went under that that umbrella, the wheels have not fallen off the bus.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: They have not, like, like I was expecting the amount of crazy of uh damage that I was expecting.
32:59
SPEAKER_00: We had this conversation, and I know now we're talking about acquisitions, not branding, but like you and I were talking about hey, are we sure we should do this this one in Fort Wayne?
33:09
SPEAKER_00: Because like it's gonna take a lot of your attention, John.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: And like, you got rapid, you're gonna be like getting this business and you have that one you just bought.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: Like, dude, you can't take on Fort Wayne, you don't have enough time.
33:20
SPEAKER_00: And look at Yolo, it's thriving.
33:22
SPEAKER_00: YOLO, do it, let's go.
33:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like was it a good decision?
33:30
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
33:31
SPEAKER_01: Did I do it?
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: Time will tell.
33:36
SPEAKER_00: But it didn't um didn't blow it up.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: It didn't, it didn't blow it up, not even close.
33:42
SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it is it is kind of interesting.
33:44
SPEAKER_02: Um a tremendous amount of growth this year.
33:48
SPEAKER_02: I like more than 50%.
33:50
SPEAKER_02: Uh almost almost more than 70.
33:53
SPEAKER_02: 80?
33:56
SPEAKER_02: Uh I don't know.
33:57
SPEAKER_02: I'll have to do the math on that.
33:59
SPEAKER_02: But like I think right now run rate's 45 million, if I from what I remember.
34:05
SPEAKER_02: Um that's a lot.
34:08
SPEAKER_02: And uh so we officially did skip over the 30s.
34:13
SPEAKER_02: Um now you know it's kind of funny is there there's another deal that um I've and I've been talking to these guys for years, and uh I'd love I'd they they want to come on and I want to I want to bring them on.
34:27
SPEAKER_02: It would put us mid-50s, so like I could hopefully skip the 30s and 40s.
34:34
SPEAKER_00: There you go, straight from 20 to 50.
34:37
SPEAKER_02: Oh my god, yeah, crazy, crazy.
34:41
SPEAKER_02: All right.
34:42
SPEAKER_02: Um, well, before I ramble anymore, if you like what you heard, make sure you check out ownenoperate.com, hit that like button, make sure you sub.
34:50
SPEAKER_02: We are constantly dropping shit like this.
34:52
SPEAKER_02: And check out Jack Position's newly christened top 150 US business podcast.
34:57
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, everyone.
34:59
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.