Latest / Carne Cruda Podcast / Derroteros: El Descanso, con Inés García y Paula Ducay, PUNZADAS (CARNE CRUDA EXTRA)

Transcript

Derroteros: El Descanso, con Inés García y Paula Ducay, PUNZADAS (CARNE CRUDA EXTRA) · Carne Cruda Podcast

0:00
How about we talk about industry, relaxation and the magic mountain hello there,
0:03
whenever we mention books. Javier read them to them. It' s amazing,
0:10
not because the magic mountain that I am, because half of it is
0:12
there. And but you' re following him now, because I' m
0:15
taking him. I' m quitting. I take it and leave it normal.
0:16
Well, I just don' t have a very orderly life. I
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think I' m going to leave it for the summer I' ve thought
0:20
about it. It' s okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well,
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perfect, sure, I read it. But then, for example,
0:25
when I go on a trip and bowling, it weighs, it weighs,
0:28
yes, yes, yes and no, and that I have the edition of
0:30
Pocket. But I kind of can' t concentrate enough for a book that
0:35
I think requires another. I know you' re mega fans, yes,
0:39
and she' s obsessed with us, in fact, like she' s
0:43
started a collection of magical mountains in a new edition, that came out or
0:45
that she sees and says she' s buying to see more magic mountain workshops.
0:47
To point me out. Yes, it may be, it may be
0:49
yes, we will probably repeat it in another time, because yes, it
0:53
is the way to read it, because we read it. I already have
0:55
one thing to do just great, so fucking great. Yeah, because it
0:58
' s one that I have like two, well, I have a lot
1:02
of earrings, but like from historical tochos, that move ah yeah, that
1:06
well, I haven' t made a move that I' ve read like
1:11
the first four or five chapters, but always in the end, like I
1:12
end up giving him up and I mean I don' t totally hook up,
1:18
no, but it would be another good option to make a club lecto
1:18
to these long ones. Yeah, let' s all come bye. The
1:26
same course goes. Cut it out well, road in the middle direction taken
1:33
to reach the proposed end set of data that indicate the way to reach a
1:37
place. I think we' re going direction that' s written for Mary
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day. In addition, at the end of the book containing a defeat then
1:47
a line marked on the tidal map to guide the pilots. Rota course gold
1:57
leave, let yourself go think walking with Inés García and Paula Anucay punzandas because
2:07
to walk Paula Inés, how you are Hello, because with heat that has
2:10
arrived the summer suddenly arrives the summer of blows. Yeah, we' re
2:14
back in the studio in short sleeves, and something that hasn' t happened
2:16
for many months, that we' re not in the studio Paula, that
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we' re walking down the exit, all right, we' re on
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the street in short sleeves. Indeed, in short sleeves, the confusions of
2:24
temporal space does not happen to us much, it happens much hears and what
2:29
direction, what defeat we are going to take today, because we are going
2:32
to talk about disconnecting that it is a very interesting course and concretely we wanted
2:38
to think because they are already approaching the holidays and of course, you have
2:40
left the calo that you have said is already here the exact summer, although,
2:43
being autonomous, I do not know very well what the summer means.
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This gives for another course. We don' t have that. I think
2:47
yes and we wanted to talk about how societies have organized the rest of what
2:52
points, the non- working days and the holidays have been used as a
2:55
form of disconnection that in reality, what makes it possible is to continue working,
3:00
to tire the weekend to continue producing Monday, to rest to continue,
3:04
which is a rather perverse idea and another of those that has slipped us capitalism
3:10
exa totally. It seems that we necessarily conceive of rest as a flight,
3:15
an escape, a recharge, which is also a terrifying expression. And for
3:19
this recharge of batteries there is a whole rest industry, deep in the bottom
3:23
linked to productivity. And our interest in digging into this topic comes from that
3:27
we have organized several sessions of a reading club that lately reading clubs are trending
3:30
topic and everyone writes about them. And well and yours are very successful.
3:36
Man, what or loyal defenders because a gentleman comes around saying they' re
3:39
terrible, but I' m not. In fact, I want to sign
3:44
up for some of God' s clear ones. Yeah, if you'
3:45
re invited, as soon as I finish this village tour I' m doing
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with pebook. That' s true. Once you' re more settled.
3:51
Yes, yes, that' s the book that we' ve done several
3:53
sessions because in addition, people had a lot of interest. It is I
3:55
was here I remembered us that it is one of these little booklets of the
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grass that we bring so badly, because they are ideal and it is of
4:01
Ana Pacheco. Yeah, that' s a wonder of the book that we
4:04
' ll talk more about later. In fact, we want to have her
4:08
on the show, probably in a program we are going to do in Barcelona
4:13
for the last season dates. Besides, our company on spring radio are either
4:16
clear, of course, we sent him a little kiss. I was gonna
4:19
figure out what to say. There, yes, in the conversations of the
4:23
clubs we were asked questions like who we are when we are resting, why
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we need to disconnect desperately, how we rest, is rest a human right
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or how many different forms there are of this that we take to disconnect.
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And these questions are the ones we wanted to bring today on this walk and
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to try to answer them we have come, as always to our dear Eva
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and Out was there delaying. We were already giving to our referents. They
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never have to fall that, by the way, will come to Madrid soon
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in autumn at a festival that is being organized, the Festival of Ideas,
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which organized it, the circle of Fine Arts between. I don' t
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know if other people, but at least of circles, we do I fear
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people. We can make a group like to go two together hand in hand.
5:00
Well, there' s that you' ll start moving this to come
5:02
to raw meat, because, please, please, go ahead and take a
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kind of long course with her with you and hopefully with her, by the
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way, she' s very named in a comic that I' ve read
5:13
very recently that I don' t feel anything anymore. I don' t
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know if you' ve read about why today' s relationships are so fluid,
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so much so that they' re almost vaporous and people don' t
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feel anything for anyone. That' s a great comic book. She is
5:24
very well and talks a lot about by Uth and all her theory about the
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young man, because Eva Joud edited a book a few years ago called Consumption
5:31
capitalism and authenticity, which collects different articles from various thinkers and she, like
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she organizes it and we wanted to bring you the one that is entitled everything,
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including the stress that is from thinker Jara Benger. In the light,
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I love your name. By the way, I' m going to tell
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you In the light it seems to me like a because I know I'
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d want to catch him too it' s like a dancing name. Clear
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or light sounds like beautiful monkeys and she speaks a little bit about this demand
5:53
for relaxation and focuses on analyzing a number of tourist places that are close to
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the sea. He argues that relaxation is something produced, that it is the
6:02
fruit of a tourist industry that focuses on this, on producing relaxation and speaks
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a lot about it, the role of emotions and how they become a product
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that is also like the great theme, or has been for many years the
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great topic of eva ud. Then, the experience of tourism and rest,
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she says, is built in relation to our experience of modern daily life.
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Let' s say tourism and this daily life are like two sides of the
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same coin. And what forms the experience of leisure and rest is the difference
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when we have as free time, what we want is something different from what
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we are used to in our daily life and then we are going to see,
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then, where does this desire lead us to something different. Then she
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wonders how she changes that experience, that is, how she becomes a commodity
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in English, a product. So, free time is seen as a realm
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of production that is increasingly focused on the creation and induction of emotional and intense
6:49
experiences, whether extinct or relaxing. In fact, I think everyone can think
6:55
about this. It' s your friend' s or your partner' s
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birthday. Give him an experience. Now that' s what it' s
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called, like theater tickets. An experience is like good everywhere, but all
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life. But in fact, all these odyssey boxes lead to a ferrari and
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hop into a hot air balloon. Is literal is driven by a motorcycle on
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the circuit of the Jarama. That I say Mother of God, who buys
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this is to shoot him. I mean, I' ve got family that
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I' m going around on the Jarama circuit. I' m not going
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to talk about it, but it' s something that' s kind of
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spread out really, but they sell you up to the experience. Yeah,
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without your own experience, it' s amazing to be alive, to live
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already they' re going to sell it to you. If they' re
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gonna sell it to you, I saw they' re gonna charge us,
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buy a fair living. And then he says to avenge In the light that
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a kind of welfare business is set up and people who are healthy are offered
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services that make them feel good or make them feel better and associated. Health
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begins to be associated with pleasure. And why this strategy pays off economically,
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because it is based on the characteristics of a new consumer public, which are
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the workers. Well, we' re not going to see that it'
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s really not that new, because we' re going to go through the
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story a little bit. But we have to think that mass holidays and the
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consumption and consumption of leisure depended on people with free time, that is,
8:07
that mass holidays begin to arise in Western Europe by the process of reducing working
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time and when we start to legislate on holidays. And since 1 870 workers
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' vacations are justified because there was a growing concern about the physical, mental
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and emotional consequences of work that we are only going to kill yes, which
8:26
are all terrifying. Of course, the issue of neurasthenia, the subject of
8:31
exhaustion that she calls them the ancestors of stress, which I really like to
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do as a genealogical tree of the physical and mental consequences of having work is
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that, of course, until then, the only ones who actually had vacations
8:43
were the rent class, in the wealthy class, of course they didn'
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t even work or do tasks that weren' t considered work. The rest
8:54
of human beings, all they did was work and sleep. Of course it
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didn' t exist then. Of course, there was no such audience as
9:01
could consume leisure products. Let' s say that it was missing like all
9:05
that part of the demand and we wanted to tell you what we have called
9:09
the anecdote of St Monday, because it has seemed very curious to us to
9:13
investigate a little bit about how workers' rest is organized historically, and it
9:18
is that they have been able to have time to rest, partly because they
9:22
established in Britain a tradition that is St Monday, which is that the workers
9:26
took the day off, without this being stipulated anywhere, that is to say
9:30
that it was a kind of festive or pagan, or there were people who
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decided to go to work on Mondays and people who were not and were quite
9:35
accepted that they were not why, because at that time there were no weekends,
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as we know them, the only holiday was Sunday, because of course
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it had to go to mass this always and then what the workers did was
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lengthening that rest on Monday because they were paid the money. On Saturdays,
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Sunday, probably some people didn' t go to Mass, they spent the
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money and then on Monday it was a sort of recovery and it was always
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related as with alcohol, with the rest. One re is the hangover,
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it' s exactly hangover sand and as I say, it wasn' t
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an official day of rest, but it was very popular in the 19th century
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to such an extent that some events like theater, cabarets or concerts were made
10:13
on Mondays because people knew that the workers probably wouldn' t go to work
10:16
and they were going to good take the day off and maybe, then,
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continue enjoying their leisure, because what good custom have we lost? Indeed,
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yes, with what we hate on Mondays, as Bob Geldof' s song
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says. Yeah, and now look at the restaurants and it was many times
10:30
on Mondays. Some museums also close on Mondays. Yes, many buildings,
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i e institutions as well as heritage, close on Mondays. That' s
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right, of course. When we could go, because that, because knowing
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museums, because it was a good restaurant totally and we wanted to bring now
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a historian who has focused on a topic that I think is super interesting,
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that is to study how societies have organized the rest of the workers called brad.
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Viven Es, Viven, Viven, Viven, Viven, like the tragedy
10:54
of the hondes. It is that Hector Gracia, who did not know how
10:56
to govern, but is described Beabe clear b or yes, he says that
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he sees many parallels between this struggle that Paula counted for Saint Monday, the
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subsequent fight for the weekend and also with what we are debating today, which
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is this of the four- day week that is very much in the debate.
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I publish recently why weekends are a relatively modern phenomenon and, in fact,
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throughout the 19th century, the British Government did what it did was legislate
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to reduce the number of hours of workers. But the end of that week
11:26
does not arise as such from official government legislation, but I think it is
11:30
always important to point out that it is the result of a combination of different
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campaigns, for example, from workers' unions, from holiday movements, companies,
11:37
and they were starting to offer all this vacation and the welfare industry,
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which we used to talk about with stays, all that also interested them,
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in addition to the workers themselves. Then, St Monday was replaced by Saturday
11:52
as a full day of rest and why, so we said at the beginning
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that it was believed that so the labor force would incur less than two and
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would be more productive. I mean, rest. To be more productive,
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they were going to get drunk less, yes, they were going to work
12:05
more. In fact, there is an article that I believe we have ever
12:07
brought here, that of the Asturian miners, which we call it, which
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is how the moral life of the workers is organized so that they produce more
12:13
also in the sense of whether you organize leisure and that it is a thing
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as a measure and totally closed so that there are no excesses or vices or
12:20
such produce more. So this was not very organized and this you told and
12:24
in another course you did look for a day of rest as a more formal
12:28
official, as I say, legally established and even from the church was encouraged
12:33
that Saturday was the day of rest so that more people would go mass to
12:35
the religious services on Sundays. Here my father always tells me that during Francoism
12:39
in his village it was forbidden to work on Sundays and spent the Civil Guard
12:43
and they were in the field collecting apples and they had to hide because they
12:48
would have to be at Mass. Of course it was illegal. Let'
12:50
s say work. Sundays were the Jewish Sabbath. Yeah, yeah, he
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was watched. Then he began at this time by leaving Saturday afternoon free and
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employers realized that a two- day rest day will reduce absenteeism and, as
13:01
we said, improve productivity. They don' t do it for our health,
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they don' t do it for our well- being, they do
13:09
it for theirs, what a surprise. Of course, returning to the light,
13:13
this importance of rest translates into the relaxation industry and is that certain places
13:18
arise that are offered as places full of calm, peace, silence and all
13:20
these properties are offered as a kind of healing or healing of that evil that
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we have mentioned before that it can be stress and that it is really only
13:28
work, that is the stress produced by work, which is, therefore,
13:31
evidently, very crushing with bodies and minds. And then we return to the
13:37
basic question of how that experience is modified, how it becomes a product.
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Since the end of the 18th century, Western Europe has seen a great deal
13:48
of growth in swords and resorts by the sea. Some places begin to be
13:50
marketed under the label of healthy, which is a curious thing, not because
13:56
a place in itself in what way is healthy, because it builds all that
14:00
story around that site and begins to understand the discomforts derived from work, as
14:03
something that each worker can and must solve on his own. Not using your
14:07
rest days to recover, recharge batteries as if we were machines and recover the
14:11
energy to continue producing, as it also puts a lot of focus on the
14:16
individual to recover. Yes, and now we wanted to bring a literary example
14:18
of this industry, of relaxation as healing, which is the magical mountain.
14:22
But, well, you were already late to bring the mountains. You'
14:24
re out of here. Besides, I call Tomás Mantom So yes, there
14:28
are people who write me on Instagram like that and inés took it like this
14:31
I don' t know what. Yeah, very good is that you have
14:33
to say for those who do not know that they do a reading club,
14:35
among several of those who do, one of them on the magic mountain.
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It has had a great success and great resonance outside of those four walls where
14:43
it takes place, in fact, I next year, if you do a
14:46
new edition, I want to aim clearly I hope, I hope, you
14:50
will be welcome to talk about shots. Yes, in fact we will say
14:52
that it is the centenary this year of publication of the mogic mountain, that
14:54
is to say that it is a year is that this is very special to
15:00
celebrate it and we brought a specific article that is from a scholar named Luis
15:03
Montiel Llorente, who is a researcher who has studied from a medical point of
15:07
view, all because the magic mountain is a very good example in the narrative
15:11
or in the fiction of how these places of healing actually worked that we are
15:15
going to comment. And the article is called the climate cure on Thomas Mann
15:18
' s magic mountain. Then this novel is placed for those who don'
15:22
t know, in whom for me everyone knows about this. It is between
15:26
nineteen hundred and seven and nine hundred and fourteen, which is a time when
15:28
there was not yet an antibiotic treatment against tuberculosis, that is, antibiotics did
15:33
not yet exist and the usefulness of pharmacological treatments in the disease was doubted.
15:39
It turns out that it was an external cause, which is the car vacuum,
15:41
but it could not yet be attacked directly. So what could be done
15:45
was to give importance to environmental factors, which were supposed to trigger, say,
15:50
the action of the germ and thus arise the climate hygiene cure, which
15:54
is a copious diet. Tomás Mano defines in the most holy imagegic mountain the
16:00
day, eating five- course meals, as well as suddenly star Michellin.
16:04
These people did not stop eating and were in an airy environment they are supposed
16:08
exceptionally pure, by whatever means, they are on a mountain yes, specifically
16:14
in this fiction of Thomas man is the International Sanatorium Vergoz where are all these
16:18
copious nutritious meals. The cold, the pure air of the alpine peaks is
16:22
encouraged. Then there is the famous chair not the Chesslong, which was for
16:26
the rest cures, which were fully installed so many hours in the morning,
16:30
so many in the afternoon, outdoors. So for the sick man of that
16:33
time, what was clear is that his illness was directly related to breathing and
16:37
to the air circulating inside his body and to the corruption that was also shown
16:41
that this also looks very good to the novel through the sputums and all these
16:44
spits in some things that call enrique the blue or something like that. Yeah,
16:49
the novel of a bunch of little bottles they carried is that very strange
16:55
things on the magic mountain. Yeah, he learns a lot, yeah,
16:56
but it' s true that I read things that we did at the club
17:00
and it' s one of the best testimonies about how they worked inside,
17:04
because he has a lot of details about the X- rays. All in
17:06
fact, there were people who got angry, there were doctors of the time
17:08
who were directors of this type of sanatoriums who got angry with Thomás Mann,
17:11
because it was like very explicit about many things. Then the important thing in
17:15
this sense for the sick was the change of place. This change of air,
17:18
which also resonates with what we were talking about previously fleeing from everyday space
17:22
to another, is not recommended to patients and, in particular, to nervous
17:25
ones. In fact, there' s also a lot of magic mountain analysis
17:30
that they say was still a psychiatric. Not really a tuberculosis hospital, not
17:33
like a little covered up by people who are no yes, yes or everyone
17:36
more eccentric and extravagant. Yes, and it is interesting to see that the
17:41
recommendation for the sick is not so much for the characteristics of the new air,
17:45
but for the change itself, not for the journey. In other words,
17:47
simple displacement was considered to be beneficial to health and, in this case,
17:52
to cure tuberculosis and lung infections. But we could think of stress as
17:56
some kind of modern tuberculosis. In this sense, I think because he thought
18:00
that getting out of the usual always brings benefits Yes, this has reminded me
18:04
of two books. I was thinking as you told it first, the fortune
18:08
of Ernan Diaz, who also has a part that develops in one of these
18:14
healing sanatoriums, precisely there of mental illness, and then a terrible greenery.
18:18
Well, the batut does, which also talks about when it' s Weddinger,
18:22
who' s already out of his mind and who' s getting out
18:26
of his head, and also bad health, he' s going to a
18:29
sanatorium. Yeah, let' s go, Santorio. Yeah, that'
18:30
s the one that' s got like the moment in the storm that turns
18:33
and all, yeah, yeah, that' s that strong book scene and
18:36
olga tozar. It' s all that you never harkok, you' re
18:38
a Nobel Prize winner and I love you, but you don' t pronounce
18:41
your rumble. You end up taking out but in English for the centenary of
18:45
the magic mountain, a kind of I don' t know if rewrite,
18:47
homage or something like that, because it has still translated us into Spanish.
18:48
But we' re there like we' re waiting. We' re already
18:51
looking forward to it, please translate that book. Yes, then, just
18:53
like the modern relaxation industry Paula was talking about, through the light, on
18:56
the magic mountain we find an example of how fo works the sanatoriums of the
19:00
time. In relation to the economic trajines that are always below, because Tembrini
19:04
is one of the most memorable characters almost in the history of literature. He
19:10
warns Hans Castor, who is the protagonist of the book that the healing treatment
19:12
of tuberculosis is a business. I mean, he' s got this whole
19:18
crusade against the doctor. He is also an entrepreneur who, moreover, at
19:21
a certain time fashions the summer cure, because before it was only the winter
19:23
cure for this air and such in summer it was not considered to be as
19:26
healing as so healing. And here it suddenly says no, because, to
19:30
summer cure also then the cold and pure air of the mountain is no longer
19:33
sought only in winter, but it is also sold to patients or customers.
19:37
Here we might ask ourselves that you should stay there all year long to heal
19:42
well, well if you employ. There is this debate about certain therapies that
19:45
seem to chronicle a disease or a state of the disease and that, of
19:51
course, ultimately generate a business. Sure. Yeah, yeah, totally yeah.
19:53
In this case the question that underlies all the time, as in the
19:56
mountain, magical are really sick, because there are people who do, but
20:00
there are many other people who are patient or client question is a very patient
20:07
client are there isolated. We could ask with this that we said the relaxation
20:11
industry when you say ay I go to a spa on the weekend with this
20:14
healing thing of water and air change And such we could also ask ourselves what
20:17
we are patients, customers, people who need to rest there totally. It
20:23
is precisely by coming to light, with all this historical reconstruction, that we
20:29
can see a pathology of work stress. New pathologies related to stress are emerging
20:33
and then it is necessary as a new type of cure that is associated with
20:36
this relaxing emotional experience with which we have begun to speak and says in the
20:41
light of the therapeutic discourse by pathologizing daily life and, at the same time,
20:45
offering a solution supposedly accessible impulse the democratization of the disease and the responsibility
20:51
of the individual himself. I believe what we said before we put the focus
20:53
on the workers so that they cover themselves from their stress by spending their savings
20:57
on going to the shift space that is then in it and then we start
21:00
to boost tourism as an emotional industry. And she says that it is widely
21:06
accepted that tourism is a modern phenomenon and that the word tour that began to
21:08
be used as we used tourism today at the beginning of the eighteenth century,
21:12
because there was what was called the Grand Tour, which was a journey through
21:18
places like historical canonicals of Europe, which carried out young aristocrats, evidently people
21:22
who had money and who undertook it with the aim of completing their education.
21:26
And it is also very interesting this aristocratic practice of drinking and bathing in hot
21:30
springs as in search of medical cures. In fact, I think like books,
21:33
the Russian pound books of Ema Force ah yes Forster as a room with
21:38
views and has some like travel in Europe, which I say is that this
21:41
is exactly what counts very well. I was also thinking of the Russians who
21:45
talk about when the Russian aristocracy goes to France, to the spas, good
21:49
beaches, that these are the new backpackers the people of I take a sabbatical
21:53
year and I go out there like spending little money. There was a meme
21:56
recently that came out on a beach like this, very relaxed and said these
22:00
are the children of the owner of the Lervion V that you have next to
22:03
home. Yeah, it reminds me a little bit of this, well,
22:07
and then it' s taken without death in Venice. It also actually speaks
22:08
of all those money tourists who are on the Venetian beach, because totally and
22:15
it is interesting to think of these two practices, the one of the great
22:18
tour and the one of taking the waters as the current base of our current
22:22
vacation. First it would be traveling and it would also be the theme of
22:27
relaxation and are like the bases of our current rest and disconnection. And we
22:30
can ask ourselves now. And now it' s when Ana Pacheco comes on
22:34
stage, who works while we rest, because we' ve talked about the
22:38
history of workers' rest, and now we might wonder what happens to the
22:44
rest of who works so that we can rest. Good question, look.
22:45
Yes, I' m going to say that Ana, which makes it great
22:48
in this book, which I remember is called here and I remembered us is
22:52
asking very well asked questions, which is not an easy thing. In philosophy
22:55
he supposedly does this and I think Ana does it great in this book.
22:57
Then it' s work. When we' re on vacation, let'
23:02
s say it' s the starting point. Well, she' s gonna
23:03
tell it real fast, but she infiltrates luxury hotels in Barcelona. Talk to
23:07
the workers. In fact, we have his direct testimonies and he also tells
23:11
us what internal meetings are like, which is this absolutely terrifying narrative of men
23:17
who are liberalism as with legs. And with this we' re the best
23:21
come on is, we' re the best hotel to take it off with
23:25
me, not literal and overtime that' s that I don' t know
23:26
what. That sounds to me like not solving anything, but creating all this
23:29
insane narrative of family happiness and all this kind of things that unfortunately don'
23:33
t happen in tourism, but it goes through many other company stories and it
23:36
mixes the essay, the chronicle and the narrative and other questions that reconvert the
23:41
book. It is, for example, why it seems that traveling has become
23:45
something intrinsic to our vacation, that is, it seems that it is a
23:48
mandate that in the week that you have in August you go out there and
23:52
sometimes, the later, that is, the farther, the better to these
23:56
exotic sites, then we have the feeling that, if we do not go
23:59
we are taking advantage of it, because we could ask ourselves, if there
24:03
are no other ways to rest, how it can be to stay at your
24:04
home. Please, I' ve missed so much without being drowned by the
24:08
routine that you' re going to be in is a space where you find
24:11
rest. I think it' s also an important thing. And then another
24:14
thing that is very present in the book and that to me it seems fundamental,
24:17
that is this trip to tell it and to show it, that also
24:22
if you take vacation and you can' t, it' s like you
24:25
put it on Instagram. This is a good topic. I was already with
24:26
the old slides you put on friends or the pictures you punished them with.
24:33
Yeah, yeah, yeah, this theory in ca the photos of the trip
24:36
and half an hour you know clearly is your friend' s fis at the
24:40
Colosseum. Yes, but it' s true that you travel sometimes to tell
24:42
more than to be there. Also this need that I think about lately a
24:47
lot, with the massification of tourism that we all are part of every time
24:51
we move out of our city or our people, and it is really we
24:56
need to be in all parts of the world, to go everywhere. I
24:59
mean, it' s great to see the world yes and to know other
25:03
cultures, but all the time yes and in what way And in what way
25:06
It seems like you cross out a list of places you have to have gone
25:08
yes or yes, things to see in Rome in one day and you have
25:11
a million articles so that you don' t miss anything and it' s
25:15
like good and that at no time do we think that maybe I don'
25:17
t have to go to Rome ever clear. Yeah, yeah, that could
25:18
be I want yes, that a lot of people lived and died without going
25:21
to Rome. Yes, there is also a reflection that they pose to Pacheco,
25:23
just with this, that you say it is like seeing the world is
25:26
considered a judgment. It' s like an intellectual judgment in plan is that
25:30
if you haven' t seen the world intellectually, like you go down a
25:33
step and clear good, because the social scale was so clear, those who
25:37
couldn' t see the world were precisely those who had the least formation,
25:41
less you make culture, less money, the lower class because they couldn'
25:42
t afford it. Yes, this is very interesting, because this travel,
25:45
moving another place has consequences, both for ourselves as identity and how it is
25:48
built, and also for people who usually live in those places. What we
25:52
were saying about traveling to certain places that are considered exotic. Here, Na
25:57
Pacheco tells a very funny thing that is the tinder and that it seems that
26:03
people only put like pictures on exotic beaches. Understand, well, we can
26:07
' t confirm it. In the amstecitas there are a lot of pictures of
26:11
people surfing off to Machu Pichu and it seems that if you haven' t
26:15
traveled, you' re not like sexually attractive. Yes, then there is
26:18
also a mythology regarding certain places that I think this is super colonial and that
26:22
we have been destroying it little by little, for example, by traveling to
26:23
India or some African countries. This trip has changed my life, because notice
26:27
how happy these people are with so little and all these kinds of stories that
26:30
should be banned in cautizations. Yeah, yeah, totally. So we could
26:36
ask ourselves if there is a difference between being a tourist and being a traveler
26:40
as well and whether there are ways to travel respecting the destination and the locals,
26:42
that this is an extremely current topic that you have dealt with here in
26:45
raw meat. There are villages in Mallorca where tourists have been closed, the
26:48
organization of many groups of citizens who want to put limits to tourism in the
26:55
Canary Islands, in Cantabria or civil disobedience in Barcelona, for example, to
26:59
protest against the serving bs, the tourist flats. So there is something moving
27:02
around not and says Ana Pacheco, the tourist has traditionally traveled to become something
27:07
else, to forget what it is or, to try to discover, in
27:10
fact, who always has precarious results. Of course to me, tourism is
27:15
the plague of the 21st century. Yeah, but it' s true what
27:18
you said before that since we' re all part of a plague, it
27:21
' s not like a guilt. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It totally
27:22
seems to me like a very interesting topic also to reflect on how we participate
27:26
in things that affect other people. I think that just because we adapt the
27:30
thing I' m going to want to move, because it' s okay,
27:33
it' s a right and not only are people going to move with
27:36
a lot of money not thinking about how I' m going to do it,
27:40
I mean, I just think we all do that step. It would
27:40
be a big change. Of course, yes, just ask the question that
27:42
I think many people like it, because they do not do it and are
27:45
starting to do it now, perhaps with these monbilies how to do it in
27:48
a respectful or good way and, among other things, perhaps also reduce the
27:53
number of possibilities. But for everyone I mean the number of train planes that
27:57
go to places. Maybe instead of landing 13 million, as happens in the
28:03
Canary Islands each year, as well as if you reduce a few flights,
28:10
putting flights that are accessible to everyone. Well, there' s a sort
28:14
of selection to precisely respect the environment. Yeah, because this limit is that
28:19
of course the planet has clear limits, of course, we can' t
28:22
all go all the time. Yes, of course, and what you were
28:25
saying that we, internally, have to change that view. I' m
28:29
going to die if I' m not going to x site as if it
28:32
' s something that defines our lives, because Ana wonders a lot, Ana
28:36
Pacheco, how to better organize the rest time these. Another is that of
28:37
questions such as that they are below the book and it tells some forms of
28:41
rest for workers that exist today and that one should think of defending how,
28:45
for example, leisure residences, which are state- funded places where families of
28:49
workers can go to rest for a very affordable price. And it' s
28:53
funny because our clubs had several people who had gone on vacation to these residences
28:57
and who told us about their experience and also reported that they were dismantling and
29:02
that fewer and fewer remained. For example, it is san grande the case
29:04
of residences in Andalusia and if you seek dear listeners in google news, you
29:10
will see that it has been so, because it is argued that they are
29:14
not economically profitable, when they do not have to be and that people do
29:15
not use them. Because you should also think if you know each other well
29:18
enough. I did not know myself, for example, that these places existed
29:22
and it would also be necessary to think that story has been built around them,
29:25
whether it is cause for pride or cause of shame to go to these
29:29
places. People told us that their experiences had been very good. We had
29:32
a boy Pablo, we sent him a persus from here that if he had
29:34
traveled the coast as a child with his parents of residence, of course it
29:37
is great, of course, but that has been replaced by the National Paradores
29:41
clear, only accessible to a certain pocket, but that gives you much more
29:45
social prestige and that is strong the Paradores. To me you always look like
29:47
a big one, but well, yes, then, beyond claiming these kinds
29:51
of places that, of course, have to be done, it is interesting
29:53
to wonder if we could conceive of rest as a right, that yes,
29:56
that it is that the State should really worry about offering. And then I
30:00
went to the Constitution, which is at last not only to make the truth.
30:02
But in article forty it is disappointed art clear, fair, but it
30:06
says guarantee of the necessary rest through the limitation of the working day, the
30:10
periodic holidays paid and the promotion of suitable centers, that is, more or
30:14
less we could be there, that it is there, then, now it
30:17
is only necessary that it is so well in reality and not only in the
30:18
paper, which is what happens with many rights. Yes, and then the
30:22
rest industry is just that as an industry that codifies rest, as we have
30:26
seen, and makes it a product and we would have to rethink very much
30:29
what we do with it. Yes, and we wanted to conclude by quoting
30:32
because today we got up and we got to an article today. Well,
30:36
today' s not my God time space. Uh, well, we'
30:38
re just traveling here. This is what the course goes and comes in today,
30:41
in yesterday, tomorrow. Indeed, at some point, an article has
30:47
come out of the country called The Age of Great Exhaustion, how work consumes
30:49
our energy and even our leisure, which is by Enrique and Alpaññes nta if
30:55
it is great. The article comments that leisure no longer means to do nothing,
30:57
but to fill these cases with time free of experiences, which we commented
31:02
on the dynamics of work. See, I don' t know what movie
31:04
it was, I don' t know where to eat. In this restaurant
31:07
it permeates time, leisure and this has to do with a society of stress,
31:10
in which even leisure ceases to be characterized by this disconnection or relaxation that
31:14
was previously constructed the story. Around this he says we live in a constant
31:19
excitement over stimulated, even in our time of rest, and set the example
31:23
of this expression that has also become fashionable I cannot not do this. I
31:29
can' t not be there. And finally, as we said at the
31:32
beginning, being close to the longed for holidays, we could ask ourselves some
31:37
questions that accompany us during these summer months, such as why we need so
31:40
much disconnect, what forms of rest there are responsible for us or who has
31:45
the right to rest. And we already wanted to end up with a Pacheco
31:49
citalian who also writes very well. I have to say what the book is
31:51
like very well written. It' s nice to read it great and says
31:56
if we don' t want to get the multinational utopia or the tourist utopia,
32:00
it' s exactly the same. We need to start thinking about how
32:02
we work less to be less tired and what other things we can do when
32:07
we' re not working to build ultimately, alternatives to desperate consumption of evasion.
32:13
Of course, rest has become a second job in the end. Yeah,
32:15
totally leisure has become productive. It' s exactly we go all the
32:21
time trying to do things so it' s just as profitable. Yes,
32:23
it is the job to consume. It' s very hard to stop to
32:28
do anything. Indeed, to do nothing, to do nothing. Hey,
32:30
actually, in front of the fomo. There has been no contrary trend.
32:35
I don' t remember the acronyms, but it' s just the opposite.
32:37
Instead of the fear of losing you something that I' m well missing
32:40
everything. You have to claim that a lot. Yeah, this doesn'
32:45
t sound like it. I have to look for the acronyms, because it
32:46
doesn' t ring a bell. But it' s a guy like that
32:49
instead of smoking or something, not clear how to look for something like that.
32:52
I don' t remember talking.