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Chaz Dean: Zero Compromises, Protecting Your Vision & Turning "No" Into a New Path | We Mean Business · We Mean Business

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  When I first opened my business, I had a silent partner. I
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  embezzled $30,000, and I almost lost my business. So I knew I
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  didn't want a partner in that way, shape, or form. I'm
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  bootstrapped 100%
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  This is We Mean Business, a field guide for builders,
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  believers, and bold operators. I'm your host, Monica Richards,
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  and together we go beyond the headlines to sit down with the
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  leaders behind the businesses, ideas, and movements shaping our
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  world. Each conversation uncovers their principles,
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  hard-won lessons, and defining moments, bringing you greater
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  clarity, confidence, and conviction as you build what's
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  next. Pull up a seat as we explore bootstrapping your
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  business, how to maintain creative control and integrity
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  while leaning into massive opportunity and continuing to
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  scale while managing major challenges and mourning personal
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  loss. You are an absolute enigma in the beauty industry, where
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  celebrity stylists typically act as a face for a corporate
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  incubator, trading likeness for a royalty stream. You did the
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  exact opposite. You spent five years in the lab formulating a
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  product that completely revolutionized haircare, built a
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  powerhouse brand that has sold over 200 million bottles on QVC,
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  and expanded into a 700 product empire, all while maintaining
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  total creative control. You're an operator who has managed
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  massive scaling, stayed fiercely true to your ethics by walking
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  away from an international market, and survived a $26
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  million class action crisis that would have cratered most
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  consumer brands. Chaz Dean, welcome to Reming Business.
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  She just gave me realities. Yes, it's real. It is that is real.
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  So, what the world sees when we look at you, Chaz, is an
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  incredibly elegant founder, someone who is dedicated to
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  animal welfare, deeply invested in under-resourced communities,
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  and the face of a massive, thriving hair and body care
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  realm called Wend, which I just learned stands for new
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  backwards, right?
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  Because everyone thought I was crazy. I'm like, it's a new way
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  of looking at it. Yeah, and they thought it was backwards. So new
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  backwards went. That's how I finally figured out what I
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  wanted.
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  I love it. So what we don't get to often see is the behind the
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  scenes of Chaz, that sheer operational grit that is
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  required to sustain a line of this scale. So today we get to
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  change that. So thank you for being here. Such a you're
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  welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So let's go to 1993.
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  Okay. We'll go
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  backwards. You open your first salon in Bel Air with no family
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  pedigree or legacy name behind you, yet you quickly capture an
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  elite celebrity client basis. We're talking Jenny Garth, Tori
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  Spelling, Nicolette Sheridan. So, how did you do that? What
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  was that experience? And can you give us a little mini playbook
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  as to how you rolled out that customer acquisition?
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  Wow, it started. Nicolette was my first celebrity client, and
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  we're still friends to this day. I don't see it that often
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  because she's out in her home in Malibu and whatnot. However, it
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  started with her, and it was on Nut's Landing. I had a crush on
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  her. I literally stole a picture that someone taught me of her
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  from a photo shoot because I had a major crush on her then. I
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  mean,
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  everyone did. Yes, men, women, everyone, everyone.
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  Paige, and so she was the client of when the stylist at the
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  salon. He's like, she's gonna come in today, and I don't have
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  time to do her hair, so you're gonna do it. I'm like, God,
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  that's like my crush. Yeah. So she came in, and we did. And I
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  don't use bleach; I use color. So it was the first thing I did
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  was get her off the bleach. I'm like, I'm gonna do color. How
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  are you gonna get my hair blonde with color? I'm like that's what
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  I do because bleach does the same thing to your hair that
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  does your clothes. It breaks it down finer, thinner, weaker. So
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  that was the first thing I did, and then I got her off of the
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  shampoo, and she's like, "How am I gonna get my hair clean? I'm
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  like, "As long as you trust me, I promise it works. So she
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  started with me, and she became became a client, and we became
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  friends. And her brother was dating Tori Spelling, so that's
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  how that started. Her brother Nicholas was dating Tory
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  Spelling, so she says, "I'm going to send Tori into you
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  because Tori was a bleachaholic as well, and all that stuff. She
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  goes, "I'll let I'll let her know, but you all have. I'd have
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  to do the heavy lifting. I'm like, as long as you let them
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  know before they come in, so it's not like, wait a minute,
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  what? So I always wanted to know if they knew before they came
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  in. He's going to get you off the bleach. He's going to get
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  you off the shampoo. He's going to get off the hot tools. All
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  those things. So that platform was set. I still had to do the
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  heavy lifting when they came. I'm like I promise it works. So
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  you can watch back, and I say you can watch back Nats Landing.
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  You can tell when I started doing Nicolas here. You can
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  watch back 90210. You can tell when I started doing Tory's
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  hair, and she probably was either 19 or 20 because I went
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  to her 21st birthday. So it was either she was 19 or 20. So I
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  forget what season it was in. Tori. You yeah, Tori. You can
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  tell. When I got her off the bleach, her hair all sudden
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  changed, and then she sent Jenny to me, and Jenny and Shannon
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  came to me, and Kathleen Robertson came to me. All of
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  them came because, like, okay, it sounds crazy, but just trust
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  him. He knows what he's talking about, and that was part of it.
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  I'm like, if they could have put me away in in a what is it? What
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  suit is that called? Straight jacket. They probably would
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  have. They literally thought I was crazy, but then when they
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  saw it worked and it really worked, like okay, maybe it's
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  not that crazy. So yeah, that's how it started.
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  So you're like the blonde doctor.
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  Yeah. Okay. I love you said that because I don't know whether it
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  would go the next one. So the next one was I had a client who
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  was a personal assistant to Juliana Margulies, and she was
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  on ER, so she sent Giuliana to me, and I saved her curls and so
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  forth. And then she sent Gloria Rubin. I started getting all the
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  girls from ER, and I remember the story because we all knew
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  George Clooney was on there as well. Of course. So I remember
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  the story. They were at lunchtime and talking, "Are you
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  going to see Chazy? Are you going to see Chaz? Like, who's
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  this Chaz you guys always talk about? I'm like, I thought it
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  was cool. George Clooney threw my words into his mouth as a 20
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  year old kid. I'm like, George Clooney is mentioning my name.
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  I'll take that. So yeah, it was just because everyone buzzed
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  about it because it wasn't the norm. You didn't just go to
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  salon and do what they did, and you didn't talk about you talked
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  about the fact that this guy's having me not use lather, not
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  use bleach, not use this, and it was different. It was different.
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  But I love how you built the trust before they even walked in
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  the door. Like, and since they knew that it was going to be a
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  different process, they had already trust you.
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  Yes,
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  right from their friends before they even stepped foot in the
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  salon. So that was so smart. Yeah,
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  they didn't understand it, but they trusted it. They're like, I
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  don't get it. It doesn't make sense, but I trust you. So yeah,
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  it was, and that's 100% Like you came because you love their
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  hair. You saw the difference in their hair, and that's what it
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  was. It just kept snowballing from that. Okay.
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  So word of mouth. Word of mouth
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  trust in witnessing what you're seeing around you change.
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  What was the first moment you realized there was a gap in the
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  market for your infamous five and one cleansing conditioner?
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  It was when I used to because there was no such thing on the
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  market as color shampoo, color conditioner. So I used to empty
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  out my shampoo, put vegetable color. And at the time, it was
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  Schwarzkopf Eco Floor. Okay, they don't have anymore. I wish
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  they did because it was an amazing product. But it was just
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  a vegetable color. So I poured that out. I'd mix that in with
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  it, pour it back into the bottle, send them home. It
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  didn't work so great because I thought maybe if I add it to the
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  conditioner, so I pour out the shampoo, mix it, pour out the
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  conditioner, mix it, and it worked somewhat. But I realized
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  I knew that every time they lathered, that's what was
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  stripping it. I'm like, if I can eliminate what's causing it,
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  we're sailing free and clear, so I knew it was the lathers. I'm
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  like, how can I clean the hair but not strip it? And I
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  developed products for another company, and I developed two
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  conditioners for them. One was rosemary, and one was sage.
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  Rosemary was more astringent and invigorating, and more deep
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  conditioning, and the sage was really moisturizing. So just one
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  day on my own, it was when I when I took over the salon in
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  1993. I'm like, it was May 1st, 1993. I'm like, I'm not going to
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  use shampoo anymore. That was my my stance because I didn't work
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  for anyone. They didn't force me to sell shampoo and all those
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  other things. I'm like, I took that stance the day I opened my
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  own salon, and it was day one. Okay, this is good. Day two,
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  this is good. Day three, I'm now, I'm literally now. I'm
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  serious. I'm now 30. Yeah, 33 plus years, no lather. Wow, bare
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  face, body, skin, everything though.
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  Wow, my
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  skin, everything. So it started with day one, then day two, then
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  day three. I'm like, okay, I'm on to something here. And I used
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  to mix the sage and rosemary for the five years I worked on mine.
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  I had to empty out stage rosemary, mix it, send them home
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  with it, empty mix it for five years. I did that until mine
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  that I was launching was perfect for everybody worldwide.
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  Speaking of proof is in the pudding. I can't believe that
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  you just and it's out of a hair tie and it's like perfection.
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  Yeah, it's it's it. I wish I had this hair in high school. I
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  didn't. I had bushy hair. I had frizzy bushy hair in high
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  school.
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  Yeah, we live in. Yeah, but really, what you did is you
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  stayed true. You were sovereign, and you did that from the very
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  beginning. No matter what was happening in the space or anyone
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  was saying, you stayed true to what you knew.
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  And that was it. People said crazy stuff. Yeah, people said
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  crazy stuff.
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  Incredible.
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  I had said that I developed the product for another company, and
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  when they launched it, they became like billionaires.
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  They're worldwide, and I didn't get anything from that other
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  than the knowledge. Yeah, big sexy. They came to me because
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  it's when I was 19. It's just asking questions. When I was 19,
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  as an assistant, I said, "I don't understand why you have
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  your own product line because they had a product line. I think
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  it was called it was called linear. You have your own
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  product line, but you order deep conditioners from the beauty
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  spa. They're those high pro packs. I'm like that doesn't
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  make sense. Why don't you have your own deep conditioner?
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  They're like, "Well, if you want, we'll set you up with a
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  lab if you want to help us create one. I was a 19 year old
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  kid. I've never done it, but because I opened that door.
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  Yeah,
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  I got that opportunity, so I did that. I I developed one. I met
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  with the chemist. Here's what I'm looking for. Here's our
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  starting ground. Let's create something much better than this.
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  But this is our starting ground, so I did. And when we launched,
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  it was called Reconstructor, and it was amazing. People used it.
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  They loved it, and they came to me very shortly after and said,
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  "We're thinking of doing a more natural product line. Would you
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  be interested? And I said, yes, but what will I get out of it?
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  And like, we'll just prove you can do it first, and then we'll
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  talk about that later. I'm like, in my mind, as a 19-year-old
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  naive kid, I'm like, red flag. I thought yes, because I'm like,
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  didn't I already do that? And that's why you're coming to me.
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  But I love doing it. And if I'd asked that question, I might not
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  have been able to do it. So I'm like, don't push I enjoyed it,
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  so just take this ride. Right. So I did, and it took probably
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  nine months to a year. There's someone who they want to
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  instantly because they just want to keep moving forward. So I
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  developed a primrose shampoo, sage conditioner, and rosemary
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  conditioner for them. And when we launched, that is when go to
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  see you know what are you going to get out of this, and I was a
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  naive kid. It's like when I first said I'd do it, I thought
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  maybe they'll give me like 15% because I'm not putting money up
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  for it. It's like I'm just-it's my brain that's doing it, but
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  I'm not putting money up. As and this is a lesson for people. As
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  the time went on, I knew that they were frugal. I knew they
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  were really cheap. So I went from 15% to 12% to 10 in my own
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  head, no dialog with anybody. So don't do that to yourself. And I
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  kept talking myself down because I just knew how they were. I'm
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  like, I didn't want to be, I didn't want the, the wind out of
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  my sails. So I'm like, I don't want to be surprised later. So I
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  talked myself down. So by the time it got time to go meet with
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  them, I had gone from 15% down to maybe 5% If I get 5% in my
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  own head, so I went and met with them, and they had a paper
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  upside down. They slid it across the table. That should have been
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  my first clue, and I turned it over. And going from 15% to 5% I
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  turned over the paper, and they offered me, this is real, a
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  penny per bottle for every bottle manufacturer. I'm like, I
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  was like a soccer gut punch. I'm like, yeah. I didn't even know
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  how to respond. I'm like in my head. I'm like, so I have to.
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  They have to sell 100 bottles for me. $1. $1. Are you kidding
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  me? Yeah. All I wanted as a kid, like $1,000 or $5,000, is like I
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  wasn't asking for millions. It's just as a kid that was
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  struggling. I'm like, a penny per bottle is what they offered,
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  and I hemmed and hot about. They're like, well, that's the
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  offer. Take it or leave it. I'm like, I had no choice because
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  they already had what they wanted. Right. It was a long
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  lesson learned, but I wouldn't have changed it because I
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  wouldn't be where I'm at today if I didn't do that. I probably
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  wouldn't. Doing the reconstructor wouldn't have
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  taken me probably here. But knowing that I did that for them
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  and knowing I was scorned, when you say someone's scorned, I'm
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  like, I'll show you. I'll far exceed that. So, I never even
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  saw the petty purple ball. I never received anything on it. I
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  really never did.
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  At that point, you're probably. I never did.
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  Well, because it wouldn't mean anything. Right. So, having said
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  that, that's when they offered me the salon. That's who I
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  bought the salon from. And when they first offered it to me, I'm
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  like, sorry. Can I say hell no? I said hell hell no. I said hell
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  no because I knew they've screwed me over already, but
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  then I thought about I was working in a salon where the
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  only reason the salon up there didn't work it was in Bel Air,
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  the Glen Center.
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  Okay, okay. The only reason that
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  salon didn't work for them is it was a chain and it was called
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  Carlton. They had great styles. They were all ex-managers that
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  had their built-in clientele. But as the time went on and they
• 13:20
  moved on, and they went and opened their own salons, and
• 13:22
  they would bring in new stylists. They were talented,
• 13:24
  but they didn't have a built-in clientele, so they were losing
• 13:26
  that. And people were not just walking in. And I watched it and
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  saw it's because you're a discount salon to most people,
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  especially millionaires. They're not going to tell their friends,
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  "Oh, I go to Carleton Glenn Center. So I told them change
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  the name. They were stubborn and wouldn't because it was an ego
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  thing. So don't let your ego get in the way. And so when they
• 13:45
  offered it to me, I'm like, wait a minute. The only reason this
• 13:47
  place isn't working is because their ego's in the way and they
• 13:49
  won't change that name. I can do this, and that's so that was may
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  1 in '93. But my first knee jerk reaction was, no, because here
• 13:57
  you go to stab me in the back again. But then I'm like, no. So
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  having said that, I'm telling this for a reason. When I took
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  over the salon, I gave up the lather. I was excited. I told
• 14:06
  them they wanted to know how come you're always ordering sage
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  and rosemary, but you don't order the shampoo from us. Like,
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  oh, I don't use shampoo. They're like, what are you talking
• 14:13
  about? And I said, I mix this, and they dismissed it like, no,
• 14:17
  you're crazy, whatever. About six, nine months later, when I
• 14:20
  kept ordering more conditioner, no shampoo, they're like, "Wait,
• 14:23
  tell me what is it you said? Because now I was working on my
• 14:25
  own, or it might have been a year later. Because they now
• 14:28
  want to know he's on to something. What is he on to? I'm
• 14:30
  like, don't tell him. And they, the stylist next to me, started
• 14:34
  telling me, "Don't tell him, because they're ready to screw
• 14:36
  me over again. Yep. So I had to keep that quiet. I had to keep
• 14:39
  it secret. The whole five years I was manufacturing it. Even my
• 14:42
  lab didn't know. I asked them to formulate a shampoo and
• 14:47
  conditioner for me. So as the time went on, they said we've
• 14:52
  never made changes to the shampoo. We just keep changing
• 14:54
  the conditioner. I'm like, oh, the shampoo's good. I never
• 14:56
  planned on launching a shampoo, but I didn't want them to know
• 14:59
  what I was doing. As well, so I had to keep it quiet until I was
• 15:01
  ready to launch it, which that was the crazy part.
• 15:04
  So that was the main guardrail that you put in place from the
• 15:07
  big sexy hair experience was to be quiet, keep it quiet, keep it
• 15:11
  quiet
• 15:11
  until you're until I had my patent pending. Okay. Once I
• 15:15
  knew patent pending, I'm like, okay, now I'm safe. Even when I
• 15:18
  had that and I was ready, when we're ready to launch it and
• 15:20
  sell it, I'm like, okay, you have to talk about it now. I was
• 15:22
  still kind of afraid because I thought these huge companies
• 15:25
  were going to come steamroller me, but I had the patent
• 15:28
  pending. I'm like, okay, you can talk about now. It's you're in a
• 15:31
  safe zone. So yeah, you just that is a part. When you have
• 15:34
  something, you're onto something. Know what you should
• 15:37
  and what you shouldn't talk about.
• 15:38
  Right. So a lot of us creatives, we have so many ideas, right?
• 15:42
  But that's like the easy part. What happens next is the rolling
• 15:46
  out, the operational, all of that. The
• 15:48
  scary part,
• 15:49
  and it makes a lot of us contract and we stop, right? We
• 15:52
  just completely stop. So, say we have this brilliant idea, like
• 15:56
  you did. What's your first step to move it forward?
• 16:00
  Mine was once I knew like I I had to not perfect it, but I had
• 16:05
  to get it to a place where I was okay. I'm good with this now.
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  Let's make it better, and that was part of it. My mixing and
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  this and that. Here's my starting ground. This is just
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  the idea of it. Let's go far beyond that. So that was part of
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  it, and you have to have your starting ground. As part of it,
• 16:20
  is the element of if no one's ever done it before, you have to
• 16:24
  figure out how to do that because no one's done it. So
• 16:26
  you're figuring out something no one's ever done, and that's how
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  I've created so many of my products are things that either
• 16:32
  drive me crazy about other products and I perfect it in a
• 16:34
  way that it should be. So that's element is figuring that part
• 16:37
  out first. And yes, it can be scary, and it is. It's street
• 16:41
  smart, and you learn. Don't be overwhelmed by it. You'll learn.
• 16:44
  You'll figure it out, and that's what stops people. Like I don't
• 16:48
  know how to do this. I don't know how to do that. It's like
• 16:50
  now with Google, and there's so many ways now. It wasn't there
• 16:52
  when I there's that wasn't there when I was doing it. So it's
• 16:55
  figuring it out and taking one step at a time. But don't get
• 16:59
  intimidated by it because it's insanely easy to get intimidated
• 17:02
  by it, just saying I can't do this. So yeah, you gotta hold on
• 17:06
  to it really tightly and don't give up. Is
• 17:09
  it progress over perfection?
• 17:12
  Mine was both. Mine had to be perfect. Mine had to be
• 17:15
  perfection because that was the point. Is I was launching
• 17:17
  something for everyone, and it had to be perfection. But they
• 17:22
  go hand in hand for me. Because if my name's on it, I can't
• 17:25
  tarnish my name, so they go hand in hand. Does that make sense?
• 17:28
  That
• 17:28
  makes sense. Yeah. Did you bootstrap one? Oh, 100%
• 17:31
  That's what I thought it was, and I wasn't positive. I was
• 17:33
  going to ask you, 100% And I'm grateful now because of the fact
• 17:37
  that when I started with it, I didn't have any money
• 17:41
  whatsoever. That's why I took five years. I kept waiting for
• 17:44
  to have the funds to be able to do it. Okay. And at that time,
• 17:47
  which you don't know about me, I think you did find out I was
• 17:49
  adopted. I found my birth mother in '98, and she was one I asked,
• 17:53
  "Hey, I have this because I didn't launch it till 2000. I
• 17:56
  was working it from '95 till 2000, and I asked her, 'Hey, is
• 17:59
  this something you? She says, 'I wish I just you know didn't come
• 18:02
  for money, so she didn't have that. I asked a very few handful
• 18:06
  of people if they would be interested and whatnot, and
• 18:09
  to invest.
• 18:10
  Uh huh. And I'm glad it didn't land that way. Thank goodness.
• 18:14
  And I had to wait the five years because I gained. I kept control
• 18:18
  over all of it. I kept control over all of it, so I'm really
• 18:22
  grateful for that. And then the people that didn't like, oh my
• 18:24
  God, I missed that boat. I'm like, I'm like, thank God,
• 18:28
  because it's one that I learned. There was the lesson that I
• 18:32
  learned prior to that as well as when I first opened my business
• 18:36
  in '93. In the first nine months of owning my business, I had
• 18:41
  someone that was a silent business partner that embezzled
• 18:44
  from me. They embezzled $30,000, and I almost lost my business.
• 18:47
  So I knew I didn't want a partner in that way, shape, or
• 18:51
  form. And I've always done that with my business. I don't know
• 18:54
  if people realize that about me. I'm not. I am. What is it?
• 18:56
  Bootstrapped. I'm bootstrapped. I thought that was what I was,
• 18:59
  but I wasn't even positive. I am. I'm bootstrapped 100. Yeah,
• 19:02
  yeah, and that is because you gain control over all of it
• 19:05
  then. So yeah, it takes longer. It may be slower, whatnot, but
• 19:08
  you don't have to make the sacrifices that you may not want
• 19:11
  to make. That makes sense. So
• 19:13
  it's worth the wait.
• 19:14
  100. Good
• 19:15
  design takes time. 100.
• 19:17
  Yeah.
• 19:18
  You are so sovereign. All I'm getting that this whole
• 19:21
  conversation is just how sovereign you are. It's
• 19:23
  incredible.
• 19:24
  Yeah, just and I stay complete. You can go. I stay completely.
• 19:28
  I'm a Leo with a Scorpio rising and a Virgo moon.
• 19:30
  Yeah, yeah.
• 19:30
  And I'm really that. I'm really that
• 19:32
  to a T. Okay, so let's go to 2001. Speaking of your mom, your
• 19:38
  mother's battle with cancer heavily anchored your philosophy
• 19:41
  on non-toxic nature-based formulations, right? But when
• 19:45
  she passed during this year, you were in the trenches of building
• 19:48
  a really young company. So, how did you compartmentally protect
• 19:52
  your business and your peace, and then grieve at the same
• 19:55
  time? I think it's something that we all struggle with. Like,
• 19:57
  we have what a week to mourn and do all the things. The logistics
• 20:00
  and all of those very intensely difficult things, and then we
• 20:06
  have to go to work on Monday.
• 20:07
  Yeah. How do you do it? Well, when I told you about my brother
• 20:11
  passing it with a freak accident, which was september
• 20:13
  13, 97. My mom had been diagnosed in January of 96.
• 20:19
  Yeah, she she battled for five years. Growing up, I remember my
• 20:23
  mom always telling us that she went in Pennsylvania when I was
• 20:27
  a kid. I pray to God none of you ever go before me. I don't know
• 20:29
  if I can handle that. When my brother passed and it was a
• 20:32
  freak accident, she was a year and a half into her cancer and
• 20:37
  so forth. So when I told her, she's like, I remember. I
• 20:41
  remember it vividly. Her wailing out, no, like literally wail. It
• 20:45
  should have been me. And I'm like, no, don't say that, don't
• 20:48
  say that. So, I first, most important that I lost was my
• 20:53
  brother. So getting through that and understanding what does that
• 20:56
  mean. And I had done some research prior. What I'm saying
• 21:00
  is, I'm not religious, but I'm spiritual. And when my mom was
• 21:03
  diagnosed in January of '96, I'm like, I need to know what that
• 21:07
  means. If something happens, what does that mean? Where do we
• 21:09
  go? What are what is all that? So I started doing more research
• 21:12
  then, and that prepared me, which I didn't know, from when
• 21:15
  my brother passed. That okay, I have to believe this, and I went
• 21:18
  out, and this is real. I went out in the salon and in Bel Air,
• 21:23
  and just talking, and I didn't know what I was talking to. Just
• 21:26
  send me a sign, send me a sign. And when my brother passed, it
• 21:29
  completely did. I keep the doors open all the time. I always like
• 21:33
  fresh air and whatnot. So I had been in that salon for for over
• 21:37
  four years. Doors open all the time. I went out back and I
• 21:41
  asked Jimmy if you're with us. Send me a sign. Let me know
• 21:43
  you're here. Nothing happened. They said your client's waiting
• 21:47
  for you. I came inside and all of a sudden like, oh my gosh, is
• 21:49
  that a bird in here? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, it's okay.
• 21:52
  Without me even thinking, thinking I'm crazy. It's Jimmy.
• 21:55
  It's okay. And they're like, what do you mean it's Jimmy? I'm
• 21:57
  like, just trust me. It's okay. So the bird came in. It went
• 22:00
  under our staircase and it stayed there for like at least
• 22:03
  15 minutes, and clients had to go upstairs to get cleansed. So
• 22:07
  I'm like, the bird. What's going to happen when the bird dies? So
• 22:09
  the bird flew out from under the stairs. My station was right at
• 22:13
  the front door. Doors open all the time, almost year round, and
• 22:17
  it just sat right at the front door and just looked at me from
• 22:20
  this distance, literally, and I just wave a piece went through
• 22:26
  me. I'm like, it's okay, and the bird flew out and flew out into
• 22:30
  the very first tree. And I just went and visited it like three
• 22:34
  weeks ago. I was there four weeks ago. I was there, and the
• 22:36
  same thing when I went there. There's a tree out there, and as
• 22:39
  soon as the bird flew out, it flew into this tree that's out
• 22:41
  there, and you just heard the best way I describe it is like
• 22:45
  Snow White when she wakes up and all the birds are singing. Yes,
• 22:47
  that sound like there's 100 birds in that tree is what
• 22:50
  happened that day. And I'm not the only one that saw it. Every
• 22:52
  client was like, "Oh,
• 22:54
  I believe you without. So anyone having to see it,
• 22:56
  every I told every client that came in the door, and I'm
• 23:00
  telling the client, and as I'm telling the client this, a bird
• 23:04
  flew in the back door, landed right on my station, looked at
• 23:09
  us, and flew out the door. And then I'm like, "Oh my God! As I
• 23:12
  told the, and it's never happened. I was there for years.
• 23:15
  Yeah. So it just capitalized it, and then as I told each one, the
• 23:19
  client, like eight weeks later, I was telling the story. He's
• 23:22
  like, "Chaz, I was the one sitting here when that happened.
• 23:24
  He's like, "I'm like, I've told so many people about that. So my
• 23:28
  point is, with my mom, I am so grateful that I was able to
• 23:33
  understand what it means when my mom was diagnosed and she was
• 23:37
  sick and she knew that it might not pan out. She asked me, but
• 23:41
  she would always ask me to pray for her because I was spiritual.
• 23:44
  She would ask me pray for her, pray for her, pray for her. I'm
• 23:45
  like, mom, I will, but you have to believe it. I can do
• 23:48
  everything, but if you're not feeling it and believing it,
• 23:51
  it's not landing. So you have to feel it and know it and believe
• 23:53
  it. So I would, and at that point, she asked me if I would
• 23:56
  be her guardian angel. I said, I will. Remember, we're adopted,
• 24:00
  but my mom and I had such a bond. I go. I promise I'll be
• 24:03
  yours if you promise to be mine. So I knew that through her
• 24:07
  whole, you know, of dealing with cancer and all. I always knew
• 24:10
  she'd be there because it was a a bond that we made. So when she
• 24:15
  passed, that didn't make it easier at
• 24:17
  all. Of course not.
• 24:18
  I I mean I could go on and on, but signs that I've seen from
• 24:21
  her the day that she passed, it's like she showed me I'm
• 24:24
  right here with you. I'm right here with you, and it was hard.
• 24:29
  I remember that. I remember clients that I knew I could
• 24:31
  trust and whatnot. I would break down with that safe spaces, and
• 24:35
  one was a guy, a total straight guy, but he completely
• 24:38
  understood. And then years later, he experienced, and he's
• 24:41
  like, "I now I know what you felt and whatnot. So, it did
• 24:44
  take a lot. So to tell me how did I stay for you have to stay.
• 24:47
  It's compartmentalizing, and it's not. I'm not someone who
• 24:51
  stays in bed and rolls up in bed. I keep going. The day the
• 24:53
  day she passed, I was going to sell my house that was in the
• 24:57
  valley, my first house I owned, and the. Is like I know your mom
• 25:01
  just passed. Do you want to cancel? I'm like no. What do I
• 25:03
  want to do? Roll up in bed and whatnot. So I did, and
• 25:06
  ironically, I had tried to sell that house for it was my first
• 25:09
  house. I tried to sell it for months and months and months.
• 25:13
  They took it off the market. Like you need to redo the
• 25:14
  floors. You need to redo the roof, and then we'll put it on
• 25:17
  the market
• 25:17
  again.
• 25:18
  So my mom passed. The floors were stripped. Didn't even redo
• 25:22
  the roof. And the day we did it, we got an offer for a full price
• 25:25
  one. Not, I am not joking. Guardian angel, guardian angel
• 25:28
  sold it for me. I'm like, I wouldn't have even had to do the
• 25:31
  floors and the roof because it was before we did them. So I
• 25:34
  knew that she showed me. It's from day one. But it's the
• 25:36
  element of what I realized and what I want to make sure people
• 25:39
  realize. Well, my mom was here, like us. We can communicate as
• 25:42
  much as you want, and you only know as much about me as I let
• 25:46
  you in. When my mom passed, I realized what it means is she's
• 25:50
  a spiritual being. She's omnipresent. She knows
• 25:53
  everything about me that she always wondered or whatnot. She
• 25:55
  always worried for me when asked about my business. She was a
• 25:58
  Gemini. She was june 13, and she always worried. And I'm like,
• 26:01
  Mom, I'm a Leo, I'm a lion, I will always land on my feet, and
• 26:04
  I felt that since I was a kid. I'm a cat. I'll always land on
• 26:07
  my feet. You can turn me. We just do that when we pets away.
• 26:09
  You turn the cats upside down, they flip and land on their
• 26:11
  feet. So I knew that, and I always felt that. But she always
• 26:14
  worried for him. Like, don't worry. If it's not that, I have
• 26:16
  photography. I have this. I have that. I will. I will be okay. No
• 26:20
  matter where it lands, I'll be okay. So I wanted to make sure
• 26:23
  that when she left here, she knew it will be okay. I launched
• 26:28
  it when it Sweet Homemade Cleansing Conditioner, November
• 26:31
  of 2004. months later, she passed away. So she knew she got
• 26:35
  to see that unfold, and I just went with it full force. But I
• 26:40
  knew sodium alarm sulfate was linked to causing cancer, and
• 26:43
  that's one thing that I can swept at people. People did that
• 26:45
  every day. So take away something you're doing every day
• 26:48
  and make it better. So I know that was a long roundabout
• 26:52
  question, but it landed because it's all connected. If that
• 26:55
  makes sense. So that one thing that I can do that people do
• 26:58
  every day, and I mean, check your toothpaste. Check aluminum
• 27:01
  in your deodorant. The things you can train to change those
• 27:04
  things. Skincare. Yeah, yeah, skincare 100% Yeah, it's
• 27:07
  absorbing into your skin.
• 27:08
  Yes, exactly. It's our biggest organ, including our scalp.
• 27:10
  Yeah, I think what's so beautiful is that you're you're
• 27:14
  such a like a business person, yet you're open to the signs,
• 27:18
  and that's really what got you through. I think is your
• 27:20
  brother's and your mom's passing is being open to those signs,
• 27:24
  and just knowing that it was going to be okay.
• 27:25
  Yeah, when I was developing my product, I used to literally
• 27:29
  pray over. And again, I'm not religious; I'm spiritual, so I
• 27:32
  prayed over.
• 27:33
  Did you have a minister,
• 27:34
  Reverend Delare? I feel like I've known her for 25 years. She
• 27:38
  was she became a close friend of mine, and we were. Yeah, she
• 27:42
  would call me her son, like I was her one of her sons, and she
• 27:45
  was incredible because she was nonjusmental, and she walked the
• 27:48
  walk and talked the talk. It wasn't till you do this, and she
• 27:51
  did the she she walked through it, and she walked through the
• 27:54
  fire. She's going to tell you how to get through the fire, and
• 27:56
  she did. And she was she was a huge huge found part of how who
• 28:02
  and how I became what I am today. When I was, I would light
• 28:06
  my candles, and again, you do what works for you and everyone.
• 28:09
  But I would light my candles in my meditation room, and I would
• 28:12
  test it every time I did it. Here's my yes. Here's my no. Ask
• 28:15
  the questions. You know what your yeses are. You know what
• 28:17
  your noes are. My yeses were usually like the candle would
• 28:20
  flicker, like do that jump, and my nose were back and forth
• 28:23
  usually. And again, everyone's will be their own. It really
• 28:27
  was, and I would test it until I'm like, okay, that's my yes.
• 28:30
  And you ask questions. Is my name Charles Dean? I'm like, is
• 28:32
  my name James? You start with like the
• 28:34
  control questions, the ones you know the yeses to,
• 28:37
  and the ones you know the noes to. And once you're like, okay,
• 28:39
  I've got this. Now let's go with this, and it was about my
• 28:42
  product. Should I add this? Should I remove that? Should I
• 28:45
  add more of this? Should I diminish that? It was until I
• 28:48
  felt like I've got the exact product. Is this the right one?
• 28:50
  Should I keep going? For five years I did that. So you're
• 28:54
  such an alchemist. I love all of this. So okay, let's go back to
• 28:59
  2005 now. You've been testing your wen line in your salon and
• 29:04
  on your clients for like 10 years now, right? So then you
• 29:07
  make the move to QVC. Can you tell us about that? And how was
• 29:11
  your first episode? My
• 29:12
  mom's involved again because back in the what is it? Probably
• 29:17
  late '90s. I used to tease my mom for shopping on TV, I really
• 29:21
  did. She used to buy jewelry on there. She used to buy being
• 29:24
  honest. We didn't come from any store. Yeah. So she used to buy
• 29:29
  those. I'm like, Mom, come. I worked in a mall. I worked at a
• 29:32
  one-hour mall. Come to the mall. Come and see me. You're supposed
• 29:34
  to go shopping in a mall. You don't buy it from TV. That's
• 29:37
  weird. And I thought it was weird. So when she passed away,
• 29:40
  I had clients that said, "You know what you need to do, and
• 29:43
  I'm like, "What? You need to sell on QVC? I'm like, "Yeah,
• 29:46
  probably not, because my reminded me of my mom when it
• 29:48
  was a client who bought from QVC and whatnot. I'm like, "Probably
• 29:51
  not, and not to diss it, but it just it didn't make sense until
• 29:55
  I thought about. I'm like, "Well, wait a minute, I knew
• 29:58
  that what I had, I give you. A bottle 25 years ago, you're
• 30:01
  like, what is this? What am I supposed to do? This, even to
• 30:03
  this day, people say, where's the shampoo? I didn't get
• 30:06
  shampoo. That's the whole point. There is no shampoo. People
• 30:07
  still ask me that. Yeah. The Jeff Lewis. What I'm lying with
• 30:10
  Jeff Lewis. The people are like, I got the cleanse, the
• 30:12
  conditioner, but where's the shampoo? I'm like, there is no
• 30:14
  shampoo. So 25 years later, it still is. So imagine 25 years
• 30:18
  ago when there was no category of cleansing conditioner because
• 30:21
  I developed that category. Now everyone has a cleansing
• 30:24
  conditioner, which is not the same. But my point is, I knew it
• 30:28
  had to be explained, even if it's on the shelf and you read
• 30:30
  it, you're like, I don't get it. So knowing that QVC is a
• 30:34
  platform for millions, literally millions of people, I'm like,
• 30:38
  maybe you're onto something. It would give me a platform that I
• 30:41
  could go on and explain it, and it made sense. So, I I did hear
• 30:45
  that, and I did know. And even when it happened, I like, Mom, I
• 30:48
  know this is you. I knew because she had been gone now for four
• 30:51
  years. I'm like, Yeah, I know this is you driving. She was a
• 30:53
  bus driver, just as you driving the bus. Yes, I know this is you
• 30:56
  driving the bus. Yeah.
• 30:59
  So you did it really for the education piece that needed to
• 31:03
  be told, the storytelling and the education-that's so smart.
• 31:06
  So it
• 31:06
  wasn't money part; it was to tell, educate people, and what
• 31:09
  this is, and what do you mean? No, no shampoo. How am I going
• 31:12
  to clean my hair? I'm like, trust me.
• 31:14
  They had a built-in audience. Yeah, brilliant. So you're the
• 31:18
  face of your brand. There's a lot of founders who are the
• 31:22
  face, or they need to rise up to be the face, but a lot of people
• 31:26
  are not comfortable in front of the camera, even a cell phone
• 31:29
  camera, speaking in front of audiences. Do you have any tips
• 31:32
  for that? QVC
• 31:33
  was first because the Guthy Ranker infomercial came a little
• 31:36
  bit later. They simultaneously were April 4 of 2005 is when
• 31:40
  they both met, and the doors open for both of them
• 31:42
  simultaneously on that day. Sorry, my allergies are crazy.
• 31:45
  It's New York. Allergies are crazy in New York right. Yeah,
• 31:48
  so that's why. Sorry. So they simultaneously april 4, the
• 31:52
  2005. Doors open at Guthy Ranker. Doors open at QVC. QVC
• 31:56
  is quicker, so got on the ground with that. Okay. So having said
• 32:01
  that, I they wanted me do media training and whatnot, and that
• 32:05
  wasn't really. I didn't even know what that. What do you mean
• 32:07
  media training? What is that? So, I got my feet with with it,
• 32:11
  literally going live on QVC, and I remember without
• 32:14
  the media training.
• 32:15
  Without media training, the media training didn't kick in
• 32:17
  until the infomercial when they're like, we need you to be,
• 32:21
  you know, shoot the infomercial. We want some media training, and
• 32:24
  it helped a bit. However, part of that is is it has to be
• 32:29
  authentic because when we shot the first infomercial, it's it
• 32:32
  was all scripted and whatnot. And I'm like, this isn't. So he
• 32:35
  says, scrap that. They had a whole script for it. I'm like,
• 32:37
  scrap that. Ask him qu like we're doing. Ask him questions.
• 32:40
  Answer questions. And that's how I always am. It's like it's
• 32:43
  easier for me to be authentic and for my heart and my soul
• 32:47
  than it is for me saying, "Oh, I develop cleansing. Because da da
• 32:50
  da, it's not real. It's not authentic. Ask me why, I'll tell
• 32:53
  you why. And so QVC, I think that was easier for that reason.
• 32:58
  It's like it was tell me about it, tell me what it does, and so
• 33:00
  forth, and Demire was comfortable with it. Comfort
• 33:03
  zone took time, but as you go on, it's just it just becomes
• 33:08
  and interacting with the customers, calling in and all of
• 33:10
  that. So I'm grateful for that, and it's because I'm talking
• 33:15
  about something I'm so passionate about. If it wasn't
• 33:18
  like I am introvert extrovert, like I can when it's about the
• 33:22
  products or I'm educating you, but out even being the Leo and
• 33:26
  all that, people say, "Oh, you're a Leo. I'm like, "No,
• 33:27
  when we're out club, I prefer being back here and observing.
• 33:31
  Yes,
• 33:31
  I am not comfortable in that unless it's about products or
• 33:34
  when or I'm educating you. But otherwise, I'm I'm not, and
• 33:38
  people think you are because you can do that. Right? No, I'm not
• 33:41
  at all. Like when work's done and I'm done talking about, I
• 33:44
  just want to be home with the angels and just chill. Angels,
• 33:46
  get what I mean. Baby, my four-legged, my fur babies.
• 33:49
  Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So it's a matter of don't get in your
• 33:55
  head. Think about what your mission is, and yeah, what's
• 33:59
  your mission? Focus on your mission, not yourself. I guess
• 34:02
  is really what it's about. That makes sense.
• 34:04
  It makes total sense, and I also too think that the more mistakes
• 34:07
  you make, it's it's more relatable.
• 34:10
  Road, yeah, that's it
• 34:11
  resonates with people, you know. And also, like if you make a
• 34:14
  mistake with a word, it actually draws attention to that word. I
• 34:17
  do. So if you, yeah, if you make it a mistake, for instance, like
• 34:20
  if you're like oh a five and two cleansing condition oh it's five
• 34:22
  and one well then I'm remembering it's five and one
• 34:25
  because we messed it up right yes yeah so I think that's
• 34:27
  always something too like mistakes are good yeah
• 34:30
  I definitely have I definitely have done that the things I said
• 34:32
  I'm like oh my gosh did I really just say I'm like yeah you did
• 34:35
  so keep it moving keep it moving
• 34:37
  exactly
• 34:38
  and it's it makes it authentic it's not it does I I appreciate
• 34:42
  that so much more than when it's perfect and whatnot because it's
• 34:44
  too scripted and and it's funny you say that because I used to
• 34:47
  have a backup no offense I have a backup guest who she knows I
• 34:51
  used to tell her because she was so by the book I'm like I just
• 34:55
  want to take you out in the wilderness I so want to send you
• 34:57
  you'll know who you are if I'm talking about I want. Your
• 35:00
  survival wilderness camp. I just need you rough around the edges.
• 35:02
  It's it shouldn't be poly perfect and whatnot. I don't
• 35:05
  want that. I want I want authentic. I want them to
• 35:08
  connect with you. And when it's too poly perfect, they're like,
• 35:10
  you're not even letting them in when you're real and you're
• 35:12
  authentic. Like, okay. And my angels too, the four legged
• 35:16
  angels, like they're in with that, and they're like, oh my
• 35:18
  god, the love he has for them. Like I'm listening now because I
• 35:22
  know who you really are instead of me being a stepford anything.
• 35:26
  So that's for everyone. Don't practice it to where it's it
• 35:30
  shouldn't be practice even. Know your know your audience, know
• 35:35
  your product, and let the rest just unfold. But don't rehearse
• 35:39
  it. I'm not someone who writes it down. I don't rehearse it,
• 35:41
  even when it's awards. I'm like, I speak like some people have
• 35:44
  accepted speeches, and it's like I don't. It's whatever comes up
• 35:48
  at that moment. I may think I'm gonna say A, B, C, and D, and
• 35:51
  when I get up there, I'm like, nope, I'm going over here. So,
• 35:54
  it's who, what I, who and what I am, and it's helped me. Now,
• 35:57
  whether it works for everyone or not, yeah, no, what works for
• 36:00
  you, but imperfection is more connecting.
• 36:04
  I agree. Agree. You transitioned when from a quiet, exclusive
• 36:08
  Hollywood bungalow product to a 200 million bottle infomercial
• 36:13
  and TV juggernaut with Guthy Ranker. When you scale that fast
• 36:17
  through a third-party marketer, how do you prevent your brand
• 36:21
  identity from being commoditized or diluted at all.
• 36:25
  They probably didn't love me for it, but you can tell how I am,
• 36:27
  and it's like I set boundaries, and it's like I had to test
• 36:30
  everyone. Like if you're doing this, like when we did our
• 36:33
  seasonals with them, like I get it, get me the samples, I'll
• 36:35
  test it, and I'll sign off on it. It wasn't just hey, take
• 36:38
  this, like, and I even I really did. I controlled the formulas.
• 36:42
  They had made up my lab. In all honesty, for the longest time,
• 36:45
  I'm like, I'm not doing it any other way because my name is on
• 36:47
  it. I'm like, you're not going to tarnish my name. So yeah,
• 36:50
  they were made at my lab until finally I had to give up a
• 36:53
  little. I'm like, okay, you can, and I get it because they need
• 36:56
  to manufacture here because they were worldwide. I'm like, okay,
• 36:59
  but I need to sign off on it. So get me samples, and some need to
• 37:02
  be tweaked or whatnot or wherever. Okay, there we're
• 37:04
  landing there. So that's how I'm not just blindly signing off on
• 37:08
  here. That's 100% not who I am.
• 37:10
  Do you have everything in writing?
• 37:11
  Yeah, 100% Yeah. Oh gosh, yeah. And I had an incredible
• 37:15
  attorney, Bill. I love you. He's been my attorney for 25 years.
• 37:19
  Wait, 2521, years. 21 years. He's incredible. Yeah. To say
• 37:23
  that about your attorneys, he's Miley's too. He's Miley's too.
• 37:26
  We have Kathy, Kathy Griffin, Miley Cyrus, and I. We have the
• 37:31
  same one who builds an amazing man. Amazing connection. 21 year
• 37:35
  friendship, kinship.
• 37:36
  Yeah. I've seen his girls grow
• 37:38
  up. They're all out of out of college now. It's Uncle Chaz.
• 37:41
  Yeah, yeah.
• 37:43
  So speaking of sovereignty, you walked away from what could have
• 37:47
  been a really big deal in China, right? Selling your products in
• 37:49
  China, but because they require animal testing, you said no.
• 37:54
  I said no. That was one of my. That was one of my entries, like
• 37:58
  A, B, C, and D. Yeah. However, not there, and it's because
• 38:02
  again, I'm been vegan almost 12 years now. I wasn't vegan then.
• 38:06
  I wasn't vegan then, but I, I launched my product 25 years
• 38:09
  ago, November of 2000, being cruelty free, no animal testing,
• 38:13
  no animal byproduct. So I wasn't even vegan. It was the
• 38:16
  compassion. I know everyone's doing it now. I'm like, I've
• 38:18
  been that way for 25 years because that was important to
• 38:21
  me. I loved animals, but I I see now everyone's taking taking
• 38:27
  that shift, and I'm like, you can't do it when it's
• 38:29
  convenient. Mine, I launched that when I wouldn't have had it
• 38:32
  any other way. So when Guthy became a part of the picture,
• 38:35
  I'm like, just so you know, that's not an option. They
• 38:38
  pushed me, kept pushing. I'm like, no, it's not. You just
• 38:40
  kept pushing back. Yeah, kept pushing back. It's not. They
• 38:42
  didn't love that because again, it could be huge. However, the
• 38:45
  other side of that coin is they know that they'll get in there
• 38:48
  and they'll rebrand and refactor it and do their own thing. I'm
• 38:51
  like, so why would you want to lose control that either? So
• 38:53
  it's a double-edged sword. You're gonna have to ambulance,
• 38:55
  and they're gonna steal from you anyway. Right. So and that's is
• 38:58
  honest, and you know that they're gonna re-engineer it and
• 39:02
  make it on their own and whatnot. So that was always a.
• 39:05
  They didn't love that, but I'm like, no, it can't happen.
• 39:09
  You stuck to your guns
• 39:10
  100, and they know that about me. And it's again, they respect
• 39:14
  it. They they love and hate at the same time. They love that I
• 39:16
  have that and stand by it, but it's not convenient for them all
• 39:20
  the time. Does that make sense? It
• 39:21
  absolutely makes sense. Yeah. So, speaking of the legalities,
• 39:25
  we can't tie up this conversation without surfacing
• 39:28
  the lawsuit. Not to bring it up into the the future, but I or
• 39:31
  the the present. But I think it's a really incredible
• 39:35
  learning moment for us all. So I'm so glad that you're open to
• 39:37
  speaking about it. Thank you. So, back in 2016, you had a
• 39:40
  $26.3 million class action crisis. So, how did you keep
• 39:45
  your team together and your primary distributor of QVC while
• 39:49
  going through that?
• 39:52
  Well, and yourself, by the way. Well, part part of it was is,
• 39:55
  and again, part of it was there was Guthy Pratt. We asked
• 39:58
  earlier. There was Guthy Product. There was. Product and
• 40:01
  where's most of this coming from? And in all honesty, when
• 40:06
  you find out that you're part of a club and you're joining a club
• 40:08
  and you want to get out of it, the easiest way say, "I got here
• 40:10
  a lot. And when that gets, it's very easy to go through the
• 40:13
  channels. I would just tell them to that. Right. So it really, I
• 40:16
  believe, started in that venture. You want to get out,
• 40:19
  they won't even ask you. Well, description
• 40:20
  basis. Yes, and
• 40:22
  so the easiest way to do is da da da da. So that starts at
• 40:25
  number one, and number two, when you look at mine and QVC, I'm
• 40:28
  like, I don't have those. So what's happening here, and
• 40:31
  what's the differences between? So when someone puts a spotlight
• 40:35
  on it, and we have all of those matrix, once it's in the media,
• 40:39
  like the the volume was here. It's been 11 years now. Nothing.
• 40:44
  I haven't changed anything. They're the same product. Never
• 40:47
  changed anything. So why did it was it then and not now? The
• 40:50
  other part is is that the attorney that came after me had
• 40:54
  gone after someone before me and has gone after I think three or
• 40:57
  four people now after me, and the person that was before me,
• 41:01
  they shut it down quick and settle. When it came towards me,
• 41:03
  I'm like, no, because this isn't true, and I'm not gonna. And
• 41:06
  Guthy did stand with me on that hindsight. If I could have been
• 41:10
  in a class and whatnot, I probably now would have said,
• 41:12
  okay, just settle quickly, because it's quieter then. But I
• 41:15
  didn't. We lingered and lingered, and they did. They
• 41:18
  stood with me. That's exactly. And your
• 41:19
  formulation. They
• 41:20
  stood with me on it for that, but as it got a couple years
• 41:24
  into it, they're like, "You may not have anything left if you
• 41:26
  keep holding to. But we did. I did over 3 million tests and
• 41:30
  over 33 tests. Everyone came back negative, negative,
• 41:33
  negative, negative. There's nothing there. There's no
• 41:35
  smoking gun here. So my point was that's what kept me from
• 41:40
  settling. But then when you realize as it gets further and
• 41:42
  further, everything keeps diminishing. I'm like, we just
• 41:45
  got to get this over with and move forward because this is you
• 41:47
  could be in there for you could have been there for a decade.
• 41:51
  You asked me about the QVC part; they've always believed in. They
• 41:53
  didn't have the complaints and all that, so I'm grateful they
• 41:55
  did. It did tarnish some of it there because they do get
• 41:59
  backlash. Like, why are you still selling product? I'm like
• 42:01
  they back me. I'm like because we don't see that. And now, well
• 42:05
  now it's been for almost a decade already. The 33 tests I
• 42:10
  have done, every test to mankind, and peer reviewed by
• 42:14
  scientists. So knowing I have that, and it's on our website
• 42:18
  that we're probably the most tested product on the market.
• 42:21
  Now you the safest out of anything out there. So it's
• 42:24
  that, and then the other part was, I at that time I was number
• 42:29
  one beauty brand at QVC, number one out of everything, and in
• 42:32
  the United States I was number three. Number three. There were
• 42:35
  only the two largest that are still the two largest ahead of
• 42:38
  me. So do you not think I was like a pebble in their shoe,
• 42:41
  100% One of them kept trying to purchase cases of our product
• 42:46
  because we knew they wanted to reengineer it, reverse engineer
• 42:49
  it, and we kept just canceling their order. So I know why. And
• 42:55
  there was also a politician who their number one backer was one
• 42:59
  of those companies, and he's the one that he's the one that put
• 43:03
  the the FDA in charge of it because again, if your number
• 43:06
  one backers wanting you to, so I know so much behind the scenes
• 43:10
  that I'm like, it's sad and no one knows this part. Right. And
• 43:13
  again, it doesn't mean the people that claimed it didn't
• 43:15
  experience that. Clearly, they did, but it didn't have anything
• 43:18
  to do with when. It'd be like saying, well, I've said it
• 43:22
  before. Like a shampoo named Black Shampoo or Black Black
• 43:26
  toothpaste. Can you? Oh, you use Black toothpaste? You get
• 43:28
  cavities. Well, I got cavities. It's got to be that. That's what
• 43:31
  it did. That's why she's gone after three or four me after me
• 43:34
  because you can keep going after them because they're going to
• 43:37
  think that's what caused it. So I'm grateful I have the testing
• 43:40
  we did, the backing we did and the support from our customers
• 43:43
  that we did, and I just feel bad because we're in we're in times
• 43:46
  where and I can be I can sue you're wearing that color blazer
• 43:51
  you can sue for any reason without any merit and usually
• 43:54
  have to try and prove instead of proving that it does cause it I
• 43:58
  had to prove that it didn't. I'm like how do you prove it didn't
• 44:00
  when it doesn't? That was the crazy part. So we kept testing
• 44:03
  and testing. So after 30 tests, I'm like, "Do you still want to
• 44:06
  do these other two or three? I'm like, "Yes. Having said that, if
• 44:10
  3233, or 34 came out positive, I would have erased all the tests
• 44:15
  we've done. So why would I keep doing that?
• 44:17
  Correct.
• 44:17
  I want to give you most peace of mind I can. So I'm grateful for
• 44:20
  that. And I again, I don't love bringing it up because it brings
• 44:23
  it up again. However, I want them to understand that I've
• 44:25
  never changed anything about my formulas; they're the same as
• 44:28
  they were then. So there are reasons, but when is not the
• 44:31
  reason.
• 44:32
  You have your fingers in every part of your business, right?
• 44:36
  You have like creative control over everything, but your
• 44:39
  business is so large. How do you do that?
• 44:44
  You know all of the details. I know. I know. Probably to the
• 44:47
  dismay of like some of my workers because even when I
• 44:50
  shoot the labels, and as we're going to print for the labels,
• 44:54
  it's like I'm like, okay, let's have a meeting. We bring it up
• 44:56
  on screen. I'm literally moving the background and the. And a
• 45:00
  little bit here, zoom in, zoom out, picking the color around
• 45:04
  the every element of it. It's just who I am, and it's funny
• 45:09
  because when you say it, it's like it's not going to be a
• 45:10
  control freak. It's not a control freak. I'm just
• 45:12
  passionate about every part of it. So yeah, that is really what
• 45:16
  it is. So it's really impressive. I most people don't
• 45:19
  do that. They just sign off on that, or don't even sign over
• 45:21
  there to turn it over. I'm like, my people probably kind of wish
• 45:24
  I would because it holds it up longer because I have to sign
• 45:26
  off on it. Yeah, but I couldn't have any other way because
• 45:29
  again, my name, my reputation is on the line, and one of those
• 45:33
  things is wrong. And I'm like, that could be my name or
• 45:35
  reputation down the drain.
• 45:36
  Yeah, that makes total sense. How do you create space for the
• 45:39
  things you enjoy and the magic in life while running a company
• 45:43
  this large, and having your fingers in all of the pots of
• 45:47
  the company.
• 45:48
  I I have my I'm vegan, so I have my garden, which brings me joy
• 45:52
  and happy. And my gardens are amazing. Yeah, they're
• 45:55
  ridiculous. Like they're it's like an Amazon forest. The way
• 45:58
  it grows, and it's the same as your hair. If the soil's rich in
• 46:02
  vitamins and nutrients, it's going to produce healthy fruits,
• 46:04
  plants, and vegetables. Your scalp is healthy. Scalp is going
• 46:06
  to help produce healthy hair. So I love that, and that is a big
• 46:10
  part of my Zen. My four-legged angels, my labs. I, it's most of
• 46:16
  the time that's all you need. The love that they give you,
• 46:18
  just the joy and the happiness. So I love my alone time. When
• 46:22
  you ask that question, it's not about going and doing, because
• 46:25
  that's the normal life. So what I love, I love my Sundays to
• 46:28
  myself, and I do, I protect my Sundays. And what I don't like
• 46:32
  is when people ask me, "Oh, I have an event or something, and
• 46:35
  it's on a Sunday. My, I'm losing that Sunday, because to me, my
• 46:38
  Sundays are sacred to me. So that is a day I hold to myself,
• 46:42
  and it's just myself and the angels, and just chill and be
• 46:46
  without any outside anything. So it seems very scaled down, but
• 46:53
  it's kind of all I really need. That's all I really need. Yeah,
• 46:56
  that I only need my Sundays to me, and if there is a brunch
• 46:59
  that I have to go to, I'm like, okay, I'll do that. And it's not
• 47:01
  that I don't want to. It's just I know I'm giving that one up
• 47:04
  that I would not like. It
• 47:05
  sounds like you've made your home your sanctuary as well, so
• 47:08
  you can always retreat there. Yeah. So some fast field notes.
• 47:14
  How do you decide which tasks to delegate?
• 47:18
  Oh
• 47:20
  lord. I thought that'd be a perfect question. No, my
• 47:23
  gosh, how do I decide which tasks to delegate? I just I I
• 47:27
  make sure that because I do I didn't used to until it was a
• 47:31
  point I can't do all this. I have to delegate, so I do the
• 47:35
  ones. I always make sure they know, hey, I'm here if you need
• 47:37
  anything. Is the bottom line, but it's also ones that I have
• 47:41
  to know that it can't be one that if they screwed up, the
• 47:44
  whole pyramid is going to collapse. You know what I mean.
• 47:46
  So that's a big part of it. Like what comes with that is a huge
• 47:50
  part of it. Like okay, if this happens, we can fix that. We can
• 47:53
  fix that. This we do this. We can't fix that. So that's a big
• 47:56
  part of it. Is what's connected to it, and what could
• 47:59
  potentially happen if it goes wrong, or it's okay if they do
• 48:02
  that. We can fix that. So that is a big part of it. Does that
• 48:06
  make sense?
• 48:06
  You're really looking at things from like an eagle eye
• 48:08
  perspective, and the connected dots. Like,
• 48:11
  what does it affect if I give you charge of this? How many
• 48:14
  people are you affecting by giving you charge of that? And I
• 48:17
  do, but it also does take time. Like, I know you can do that.
• 48:19
  I'm going to pass it on. I know you can do this. I'm going to
• 48:21
  pass that on. So that's how I really work. It is what I know
• 48:25
  you can handle. And some of them, like you know, there's a
• 48:28
  lot in your bucket. If it's too much, let me know, and I'll put
• 48:30
  it somewhere else.
• 48:32
  Exactly. For those of us running on high stress and minimal
• 48:35
  sleep, what is the number one care or task that you can give
• 48:41
  to your hair to keep it healthy. Like number one rule for healthy
• 48:46
  number
• 48:47
  one is I said a little earlier it starts from the scalp. So the
• 48:50
  botanical tonic it's a no brain. You just spray. It takes two
• 48:53
  minutes. Spray on your scalp at night, massage it, and sleep
• 48:56
  with it on. Healthy scalp helps promote for healthy hair growth.
• 48:59
  So again, you can do what you want with the hair, but if it's
• 49:01
  not healthy, it's like skincare. You can't keep putting makeup
• 49:05
  over skin. You got to treat the skin first, and then it works
• 49:08
  hand in hand. So the scalp would be the number one. Is the tonic
• 49:12
  for a healthy scalp, helping promote for healthy hair growth,
• 49:15
  and then the rest trickles down from there. But it starts at the
• 49:18
  scalp, so I would start there. Like that's the most important
• 49:22
  foundation.
• 49:23
  Yeah,
• 49:23
  yeah. So closing question: If our community takes only one
• 49:28
  truth, one single truth from this whole conversation on how
• 49:32
  to mean business, what should it be?
• 49:36
  You have to know what your vision is. Don't lose sight of
• 49:40
  that because you are going to get nose and door slammed, and
• 49:43
  if you if you're not strong and you can't stand up for what you
• 49:46
  believe in, you won't arrive there. You have to stand in what
• 49:51
  it is you're, and I don't want to say fighting for, but you
• 49:53
  know what I mean. That what you're standing up for, what
• 49:54
  you're fighting for, and not lose the heart, the drive, the
• 49:58
  passion, the motivation. Because it will, it'll tear you down.
• 50:01
  It'll break you down. There'll be times that you're depleted.
• 50:04
  You have to keep digging into that, and that's what will keep
• 50:07
  you going. But the no's will come every day, all the time,
• 50:10
  everyone. Because it just means either one, no one's ever done
• 50:13
  it, so
• 50:14
  can't do that, or it's going to require too much work on their
• 50:18
  part. So we're not going to do that because you're gonna what
• 50:21
  you're asking is gonna require work on someone else's part, and
• 50:23
  it's just easier to say no. So I'm someone who part of it
• 50:26
  that's true is when people are start with me and are hired,
• 50:30
  they're like they'll hear that oh Chaz doesn't accept no for an
• 50:34
  answer. I'm like what that means is don't end at the no. If
• 50:37
  that's a no, what about this? If that's no, what about that? Find
• 50:41
  your way to a yes, and that's a big part of it. Find your way to
• 50:44
  your yes. You will get tons of noes, and it's maybe not this
• 50:47
  street, maybe it's that street, maybe it's that street. You got
• 50:49
  to find your yeses, and yeses mean so you can continue to move
• 50:53
  forward.
• 50:53
  Does that make
• 50:54
  sense?
• 50:54
  That makes perfect sense. And don't lose your passion. Keep
• 50:57
  your vision. Find your yes. Thank you.
• 51:00
  Thank you.
• 51:04
  If you've enjoyed this episode, subscribe and comment below. You
• 51:07
  can also find us on social at We Mean Business Pod, and if you
• 51:10
  prefer to listen to this episode, you can find us on your
• 51:13
  favorite podcasting platform. We're grateful you spent this
• 51:16
  time with us, and truly hope we've unlocked new ways of
• 51:20
  building, believing, and boldly operating. This podcast is
• 51:23
  brought to you by the Next Rodeo and Connoisseur Media, with
• 51:26
  production by Good Mess Media and Musik by Jam Musik
• 51:29
  Collective. From all of us, thank you for watching, and
• 51:32
  remember, the future belongs to those who mean business.