Latest / Nightmare Success In and Out / Foster Care, addiction, prison, to master tattoo artist entrepreneur- Shawn Medina

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Foster Care, addiction, prison, to master tattoo artist entrepreneur- Shawn Medina · Nightmare Success In and Out

• 0:01
  What happens when your worst fear becomes your reality?
• 0:04
  Hi. I'm Brian Cassidy.
• 0:05
  Welcome to the nightmare success in about podcast.
• 0:08
  But we explore a how to overcome your fears and Nightmares is set
• 0:12
  yourself free. We're going to be exploring this
• 0:14
  topic with guys that was in Leavenworth with and others who
• 0:17
  survived their own nightmare. These stories can be inspiring.
• 0:22
  Sometimes sad, there's some humor but hopefully you can come
• 0:26
  away with a nugget of something that will help you knock down
• 0:28
  some of the prisons. You Built up in your own mind.
• 0:37
  Welcome back, nightmare success in and out listeners.
• 0:42
  So, I've got a really good guest here.
• 0:44
  I was just sitting here, talking to Sean Medina and I we were
• 0:49
  talking about. So a lot of you can probably
• 0:52
  figure out, we're starting to get kind of a routine going here
• 0:57
  with. I've got great guests on that,
• 0:59
  refer me to Great guest. So I had Robert Riley's second
• 1:02
  on and we were talking the other day and he's I see you need to
• 1:06
  talk to Sean. As soon as a cool guy, he's gone
• 1:10
  through a lot. Got through a lot.
• 1:12
  Made it on the other side. So anyway, shun Medina.
• 1:17
  Welcome in man. Thank you.
• 1:19
  Sean. And I were just, we were just
• 1:22
  before we got on, we were at Leavenworth, but not at the same
• 1:24
  time. And but Sean was at the big
• 1:28
  house and I was at the small house a little house.
• 1:30
  So it was I only got to go in there a couple of times and it
• 1:34
  was a little bit different than where I was down at the camp,
• 1:36
  but So Sean, welcome, glad to have you here.
• 1:42
  Thanks for coming by. I'm glad you made it into the
• 1:45
  podcast Studio, the nightmare of success Studio, we usually do
• 1:48
  this. If you're, you know, from if
• 1:49
  somebody's not town, we got to do it by Zumba.
• 1:52
  We're just right here. Here we are.
• 1:54
  Yeah, I don't like that. And then we just we just
• 1:56
  realized that you had the wrong headphones.
• 1:59
  Yeah, we do a sound check. I said can you hear me?
• 2:01
  It's just now. I can't hear you.
• 2:05
  I was thinking, I don't know if I have Did anybody else with?
• 2:09
  And they just were not. They were just too polite to
• 2:11
  tell me that they couldn't hear me.
• 2:12
  We're good. We can hear each other.
• 2:14
  Yeah, so Sean, you told me you were a California boy.
• 2:18
  Yeah. I was born and raised in San
• 2:20
  Diego. The, the way that I ended up,
• 2:25
  you know, kind of ending up back and forth from San Diego to St.
• 2:29
  Louis has my dad grew up here. Well, your dad was from stealing
• 2:35
  my uncle. Actually my dad's from Um,
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  Laredo Texas, like all my dad's side of the family is from Texas
• 2:42
  and my mom's side is my call from California.
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  And but they, my grandparents came up here when my dad was
• 2:52
  like a little kid and he grew up here.
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  Anyways, he ended up enlisting in the Navy and he was stationed
• 2:59
  in San Diego. That's where he met my mom and
• 3:01
  make sense. That's how it happened.
• 3:03
  San Diego. So what was what was like
• 3:05
  growing up for you as a kid. Mom, Dad siblings.
• 3:09
  So my dad split when I was like I guess two and a half.
• 3:15
  Yeah. So I grew up with my mom more
• 3:19
  more so with my grandparents than my mom, she was pretty
• 3:25
  heavy, you know, drug abuser and so we did a lot of hopping
• 3:30
  around a lot of back and forth. Did you know that?
• 3:33
  As a kid, those Shawn like, well, like what?
• 3:36
  How did you How did you come to know that?
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  Like what what what point does is, it does a kid at a certain
• 3:44
  age? Realize that something's not
• 3:45
  quite right? Yeah, I mean definitely,
• 3:50
  whenever my sister and I were, you know, getting taken out of
• 3:55
  our home and put in foster care, that was kind of like there was
• 3:57
  a real Ringling hell. Would you been?
• 4:01
  That was probably about nine. Well, yeah, that had to feel
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  really weird, didn't it? Yeah, it was just because you
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  look for, you know, the safe place, be your home and then all
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  of a sudden you're uprooted and they don't know what the unknown
• 4:16
  is. Yeah, and I think that was like,
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  the first kind of time period were, you know, like we were
• 4:22
  kind of like forced to realize the fact that my mom was like
• 4:26
  using drugs and yeah, it wasn't just, you know, It was strange
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  that we moved around so much, you know what I mean?
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  Like it was all kind of just normal to us really cause you
• 4:38
  know, ability different. Yeah.
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  We didn't know any different and you know that was the
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  definitely. So do you remember like going
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  into foster care at 9 10 years old?
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  Yeah it was it was it was super weird.
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  You know, it kind of happened from like our neighbor In our
• 5:01
  apartment, calling the police because she, you know, realize
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  there was something going on. Yeah.
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  And and she realized that because my sister and I would be
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  sitting out on the front porch of our of our apartment till
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  like, 2:00 in the morning. Like pretty much every night
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  waiting for my mom. Wow.
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  And her boyfriend to get back home and let us in the house and
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  stuff and but anyways all would your sister been like a we see
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  young girl two years older than K so she's a little bit older.
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  Yeah and so They, you know they showed up and you know kind of
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  ran us through the process started out at the police
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  station and you know to some you know I guess temporary.
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  They split you guys up now. They didn't split us.
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  That's good. Yeah, and but yeah, it was it
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  was terrible. You know what I mean?
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  It was like, I was already a pretty timid little kid.
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  Yeah. And all of that, just unknown
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  was super uncomfortable for. I just can't imagine at that
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  age. What that would be like, because
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  And when you come, you know, 9 or 10 years old, you know, your
• 6:04
  what is it? 4th grade 3rd?
• 6:06
  4th? Yes, I think if I can remember.
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  I think I was third grade. Yeah.
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  And and if you were moving around a lot, you probably
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  weren't able to make a lot of connections with kids because
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  you were moving. Now you know what, my best
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  friend, my best friend when I was you know that age was
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  actually the kid that lived across the street from my
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  grandparents house manual me, what we call the mijo.
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  Yeah but yeah. Yeah, that was pretty much my
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  only, you know, like kind of grounding point was when I was
• 6:37
  when we were actually living with my grandparents.
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  Well, so Sean, how did that work?
• 6:42
  So you got picked up, got into the foster care.
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  What at one point like to the can the grandparents and the
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  relatives and that type? How can they get involved in
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  that or did they get involved in that from what I remember?
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  Kind of familiar with how that Foster thing work, I mean can't
• 7:02
  can a grandparent, say, I'll take them or do they have to go
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  through the system to. So that's, that's, that's not
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  what ended up happening when I say my grandparents house
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  either. Like, all of us were living with
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  them. Like, my mom included, and, you
• 7:19
  know, different times, mostly everybody was together.
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  Yeah. And um, but like whenever the,
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  the Foster thing happened, you know, like we we ended up
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  Getting placed in a home with some, somebody random family for
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  a time period. And then, my mom was able to get
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  us back. But shortly after that, we were
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  shipped off to my dad who I had never met and for in st.
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  Louis st. Louis.
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  Wow. And that was, what was that
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  like? Because this is a guy, you don't
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  know. Yeah.
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  And you're going to an unfamiliar land in the middle.
• 7:59
  Of the country. Yeah, I talk to this dude, like,
• 8:02
  once a year on my birthday. Yeah.
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  And you know, if I can remember like, it's like I'm always
• 8:11
  getting put on the phone with this guy like once or twice a
• 8:14
  year, do I just can't wait to get off the phone?
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  You know what I mean? That's what I remember from it.
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  And and then we show up to the airport and I'm like, you know,
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  I'm kind of looking around, and then there's this, like,
• 8:29
  Crazy-looking biker-looking long ponytail, that's Mexican, dude.
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  Standing in the middle of everybody and I'm like, fuck.
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  Tell me that's not my head, you know, and it was and it was.
• 8:41
  Yeah, that dude was my dad. So what, how did all that go?
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  Because you get to be kind of weirded out as a kid like this
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  is, I'm in a new world. I'm with a guy that never been
• 8:53
  on a plane before playing you show up the guy that you don't
• 8:57
  want to be your dad is your dad asked.
• 8:58
  Gary is looking to? Yeah.
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  So was there a connection man? It was a as you were what?
• 9:06
  10 years old. Nine years old?
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  Yeah, I was like 9. And like he I remember he he
• 9:13
  walked up to us both and like He liked bear, hugged us.
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  And I swear I thought he was going to pop my head off on my
• 9:21
  body, you know and and you know what I mean?
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  Like we So just I'm going to put this into perspective like we I
• 9:34
  was used to living. Like I didn't know what poor was
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  but we were poor in California, right?
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  And but you don't it's hard to tell you're pouring California
• 9:44
  because everything's yeah. Beautiful area is the beach
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  world. Yeah and then so you know like
• 9:51
  we leave I different than the important Missouri.
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  Yeah we leave the airport. Going to get into this piece of
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  shit old truck. And drive to my dad's house.
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  And like, I've never even seen a red brick building before, and
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  and we're like down on, like, State streets.
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  You know what I mean? Yeah.
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  And so I was like this sucks, you know?
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  I mean it was it was a bummer. And John, how did like this time
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  period. How did you stay with your dad
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  for years? So this is so we pretty much
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  Each didn't, once we got the st. Louis are pretty much didn't
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  hear. From my mom for another four
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  years were yours. Yeah.
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  And did you host? So you didn't hear like a phone
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  call. Nothing.
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  You just didn't hear from her now.
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  She just. Wow, she was in a really bad
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  spot. You know what I mean?
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  The dude she was with was lad. Total like mentally and
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  physically abusive dude. You know to are you guys were
• 10:55
  terrorists? Yeah.
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  Yeah, he was dude sick. You know what I mean?
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  Like, Sean, you crazy rough start.
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  But yeah, it was kind of a bummer.
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  I just, you know, today I think God from our fur like my
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  grandparents and I mean because they were like the only
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  Touchstone. Yeah.
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  That was it, you know, they were great.
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  Yeah. But but yeah we st.
• 11:17
  Louis my dad's, you know, he's always been Pretty good
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  alcoholic. You know, very abusive to his.
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  They weren't married, but they've been together.
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  You know, might as well have been his wife.
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  My stepmom Jamie and You know, that's pretty much what I saw
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  for. The next four years was drinking
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  and abusing, you know what I mean?
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  Kind of what was school, like, what I mean, I guess you got
• 11:43
  into a new school and school life.
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  Did you remember any of that school will be able to make any
• 11:48
  connections in that world? I really, you know what I mean?
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  Like it's just you and your sister.
• 11:53
  You were kind of together. Yeah.
• 11:55
  We, um, I don't know, I feel like my sister did a lot better
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  than me. You know what I mean?
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  I was still kind of really introverted.
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  It was a huge Shock for me, you know what I mean?
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  Like, you know, I just I just honestly, you know, I never
• 12:11
  really felt you know, like I fit in anywhere, you know, growing
• 12:16
  up, you know, to be honest. You know.
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  So so how did you what was your next step?
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  What happened next? So, so like I said, we didn't
• 12:27
  hear from my mom for about four years, but by the time we did
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  hear from her, you know what I mean?
• 12:32
  Like, living with my Dad, we were like.
• 12:34
  Like okay cool. She calls one day she's like,
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  hey I want you guys back. You know, do you guys want to
• 12:45
  come live with me and we're like get us the yeah.
• 12:47
  Bugs go here. I mean like and we were we were
• 12:51
  gone. She packed up and left?
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  Yeah we both went over. Would you been there like
• 12:54
  14-nothing? I was like yes sir.
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  I think I was like 13 and we headed back.
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  And honestly like that time period was probably like the
• 13:08
  most fun for me because I was like, 13 years old.
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  What ended up happening was my mom got like hit by a car or
• 13:16
  something and she got a settlement.
• 13:18
  And so, she had gotten like this, you know, little house
• 13:21
  that was, yeah, little house down in the beach area in
• 13:24
  Pacific Beach, and San Diego. And so, the life felt kind of
• 13:29
  good. We went.
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  Yeah, we go. We went back.
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  There, we could walk to the beach.
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  You know what I mean? She was still up to her same
• 13:37
  bullshit, you know what I mean? Like, did she seem different at
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  all? Did she seem like our did you
• 13:42
  seem exactly? Like which still with the guy?
• 13:44
  That was the bad guy? No, he was gone is gone.
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  So, you know, it was good. Yeah, that was definitely the
• 13:49
  yeah. At least a step in the right
• 13:51
  direction. She had already by then I had
• 13:54
  two new sisters, okay and but she had already lost custody.
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  Uh, them okay. And but so anyways it was me and
• 14:06
  my older sister were back were down at the beach, you know?
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  And like I said, my mom still up to the same shit.
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  She's still getting high. She's you know.
• 14:14
  She would she would like were you frustrated with your shot,
• 14:18
  man? I didn't care at that point
• 14:19
  staying here. I mean like he had a place to
• 14:21
  live. You were close to the beach.
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  Yeah, she she would pop in, you know what I mean?
• 14:26
  Like and throw myself. Yeah, she would drop off like
• 14:31
  some bag. Potatoes and oranges every once
• 14:33
  in a while. And, you know, we pretty much
• 14:36
  just we would well like, how did you what was your world?
• 14:39
  Like, I mean, did you, did you work?
• 14:43
  Did you go now? Just just kind of gal in school?
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  You know what I mean? Like, I pretty much I went to
• 14:48
  school, so I could eat, you know what I mean?
• 14:50
  And, you know, when I wasn't in school, I would just like, I
• 14:56
  remember, I would like just go walking through the grocery
• 14:58
  store and just picking shit, eat it.
• 15:00
  You know what I mean? We're about clothing and stuff.
• 15:03
  Like, how do you remember how that all happened for his?
• 15:06
  Did your grandparents all? Yeah, so we were in San Diego.
• 15:08
  So that's where my grandparents, you know, lived and, you know,
• 15:13
  they did what they could they would, you know, they would come
• 15:16
  in and check in on us and pick us up and take us shopping for
• 15:19
  clothes and stuff like that and it's good.
• 15:22
  Yeah. So we weren't living with them
• 15:24
  but she didn't really know that my mom wasn't there most of the
• 15:27
  time. Okay, you know otherwise I'm
• 15:30
  sure she probably would have It's just a.
• 15:32
  Yeah, but, you know, we were like at a certain age, my sister
• 15:35
  had like met a boyfriend, you know what I mean?
• 15:39
  Like she was hanging out and I was running around with a bunch
• 15:43
  of little cholo kids, you know what I mean?
• 15:45
  We were running around doing hood rat shit, having fun, you
• 15:48
  know, at the beach. So, yeah, it wasn't that bad,
• 15:51
  right? It was just that you did.
• 15:53
  I mean, you knew it was a lot better than where you were in
• 15:56
  St. Louis.
• 15:56
  Yeah. So it felt better.
• 15:59
  Hmm. So then how did you get in?
• 16:01
  To the world of getting more into, always say trouble.
• 16:13
  So, I mean, I was always getting into, I wasn't getting.
• 16:17
  I was doing things that would have got me into trouble.
• 16:20
  Yeah, but I wasn't actually getting into trouble.
• 16:24
  You were getting caught. I wasn't getting caught until
• 16:27
  like, I turned old enough to go to jail.
• 16:29
  Yeah, which is super convenient, you know what I mean?
• 16:32
  But but yeah, I was already before.
• 16:37
  I don't know. I said like, I'd say probably,
• 16:39
  like, around 16 17. I was like doing Hanging out
• 16:43
  with friends doing you know, started doing like acid and you
• 16:49
  know I mean stuff like that and then eventually you know turned
• 16:52
  into hanging out with people who are doing like crystal meth and
• 16:56
  stuff like that. And that's kind of what like
• 16:59
  gotchu lock me in for the ride. You know.
• 17:01
  Yeah. So it's you know, I've had so
• 17:04
  many different guys that I've had conversations whether within
• 17:08
  crystal meth. And in fact I had a guy on here
• 17:12
  calculus. Icing.
• 17:13
  That was he was I think the number for golfer in the world
• 17:16
  as a teenager and is all of his different friends, got into it
• 17:22
  and it kind of became the capital and his area for crystal
• 17:25
  meth and Hawaii, and, and lost everything.
• 17:29
  I mean, literally lost their, it's, it's interesting.
• 17:33
  How one type of drug can take somebody down such a dark path.
• 17:38
  Where they, you know, it's almost in some cases of media
• 17:43
  know, What was it with you? How did it work with you?
• 17:46
  And you know what's crazy is like I would do pretty much
• 17:49
  anything out there except for that.
• 17:52
  Yeah. Because of my mom, you know you
• 17:53
  knew that's what she was doing. Yeah.
• 17:56
  And I was like fuck that shit. That's the bad stuff.
• 17:58
  I'm not messing with that stuff and I boo eventually, you know,
• 18:02
  I ended up doing it. Yeah but I mean unfortunately
• 18:09
  for me it was like In the very beginning that that was, what
• 18:15
  kind of like, flipped a lot of things for me that I didn't like
• 18:19
  about myself, you know what I mean?
• 18:21
  Like, did you say you were introverted?
• 18:24
  So, I'm sure when you were doing those type of things, you've
• 18:27
  became an extrovert of some sort, which probably gave you
• 18:31
  some Escape of some sort. Yeah.
• 18:33
  And then also, you know what I mean, like, you know, it kind of
• 18:38
  took me out of like feeling like a victim all the time.
• 18:41
  Do you know what I mean? It kind of puts a power.
• 18:43
  Yeah. Gave me like, it's kind of like,
• 18:46
  I ended up in a lot of situations where it forced me to
• 18:51
  realize other things that I was capable of which are not very
• 18:55
  good, not good. But you know what I mean?
• 18:57
  Like, you know, you don't kind of where you realize that, you
• 19:02
  know, you don't have to be the victim about shit and you can,
• 19:05
  you know, kind of take take action.
• 19:07
  Yeah. There to control and you're
• 19:10
  talking about control real. Yeah, our control.
• 19:12
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 19:14
  And yeah, but that was, you know, basically when all the all
• 19:20
  of the little stuff turned into bigger stuff, you know what I
• 19:23
  mean? Like I think the first time I
• 19:26
  went to jail was, you know, I got arrested for trying to shoot
• 19:31
  somebody at a fucking school, you know?
• 19:32
  I mean, that'll do something. And that was like, you know, a
• 19:38
  situation that just got out of hand because it was like, I was
• 19:41
  super irrational because I was like, coming down off of them
• 19:45
  after some shit like that, you know, and escalated.
• 19:49
  And you know, it just kind of snowballed from there.
• 19:52
  So how on your under nightmare of catching your federal charge,
• 19:55
  what happened? I mean I was just I was just
• 19:59
  hanging out with some with some people who were, you know, like
• 20:05
  making meth and Honestly, we weren't like, we weren't doing
• 20:12
  anything, but like, supporting a habit.
• 20:14
  Yeah. I mean, I'm dumb.
• 20:15
  It's where a lot of the guys were with that.
• 20:17
  I was with at Leavenworth. Was they?
• 20:20
  They were the lowest hanging fruit began.
• 20:22
  They were the users. Yeah.
• 20:24
  The people that they were giving and doing it.
• 20:26
  So, they could distribute those guys.
• 20:28
  Yeah, themselves. Well insulated.
• 20:29
  Yeah, we were just, um, you know what I mean?
• 20:31
  We were just like certain surviving, you know, day-to-day
• 20:35
  and getting high kind of and Um, you know, like the guy who the
• 20:43
  main guy who I was hanging out with, I guess, you know, I think
• 20:47
  I told you before was like he was already got busted like for
• 20:52
  small shit a couple times I think.
• 20:54
  And I think, you know, this time, I just happened to be
• 20:57
  lucky to be there and they were sick of dealing with this dude
• 21:02
  and they're like, oh, we can scrape together enough.
• 21:05
  Enough people in this kind of scenario, two, Call it a federal
• 21:09
  thing and I do conspiracy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:14
  So you got wrapped up in it. Yeah.
• 21:16
  On a high that there were there were tired of yeah.
• 21:18
  And, you know, I had like the only thing the in there were no
• 21:24
  like when we got busted, there were no drugs.
• 21:26
  There was some clean glassware and I happen to have like a
• 21:33
  hotel room key on my possession, where that stuff was.
• 21:38
  And like the hotel room wasn't in my name, or any of that
• 21:41
  stuff. Like, if it would have been a
• 21:44
  state case, like never Robin wouldn't Road, you know, it
• 21:48
  would have been like a book and release for me and I'm done, you
• 21:51
  know, exactly because they wouldn't even mess with it.
• 21:53
  But they had a targeted to do a part of it and I ended up
• 21:58
  honestly I ended up doing more time out of any of them.
• 22:01
  Because you know, like as you know, they they use priors sure
• 22:06
  to increase your point. Points.
• 22:09
  And I had, I had more of a criminal history, any of those
• 22:12
  guys. Well the unfortunate thing about
• 22:13
  that is when you have more points and you end up in a
• 22:15
  harder place to. Yeah.
• 22:17
  And were you when you got, you know, through that process and
• 22:24
  were arrested and and and finally end up a courtroom and
• 22:27
  then they sentenced you to what 62 months.
• 22:30
  Yeah. Something like that.
• 22:30
  Yeah. What was your thought?
• 22:32
  I mean, what are you thinking? Because, you know, I'm fed time.
• 22:35
  That's real time. It's not like 10% of yeah.
• 22:38
  It's like six months. And if you're like me, you know,
• 22:41
  it's 85% or whatever. But if you're like me, you know,
• 22:44
  you're doing all of it, you know what I'm saying?
• 22:46
  But I remember I remember when the first time I went to court
• 22:52
  in the federal building and they took me into the courtroom and I
• 22:56
  looked around and everything was like so nice.
• 22:58
  You know what I mean? I was like, oh, I messed up this
• 23:01
  time, you know what? He's like, this isn't the normal
• 23:05
  court room, you know what I mean?
• 23:08
  But yeah, so I was like, that was kind of, you know, I was
• 23:11
  like, man, I'm in trouble. And then, you know, like my
• 23:15
  attorney came and talked to me, he was like, listen, man, like
• 23:18
  everybody's getting 10 years like nothing.
• 23:21
  Nobody, you know, I mean, so I want you to prepare.
• 23:23
  You got 10-year minimum. Yeah, candy prepare yourself for
• 23:26
  that and I was like that sucks, but, you know, it is what it is,
• 23:30
  you know, I kind of just, you know, I you know kind of live a
• 23:35
  life of forcing myself to be okay with Whatever part
• 23:39
  mentalize? Yeah, you know I mean and and
• 23:43
  then so whenever I got, you know, the sixty two months or
• 23:46
  whatever I was like, oh I was really like that but that's
• 23:50
  about half of what you were being told.
• 23:51
  You're gonna get. Yeah.
• 23:52
  I was, I was not mad about it, you know, I mean, I mean, you
• 23:55
  know, you have to take some responsibility for so did you
• 24:00
  because, you know, you and I were talking before we started
• 24:02
  the interview and, you know, do the, the jail part of being
• 24:07
  locked up as the The worst part that how long did you have to do
• 24:09
  the jail part? So in fact we just found out
• 24:14
  both of us had been in warrant and which is so horrible Place.
• 24:18
  Yeah originally, so I was in Warrenton for when I went back
• 24:23
  on my violation but originally I was out in Steelville.
• 24:26
  Okay. And Cornbread County, okay,
• 24:29
  management called can't imagine. And yeah, there it was, it was a
• 24:33
  hard time for me out there because there was like This one
• 24:38
  big fat redneck CEO, that was like making everybody's lives
• 24:43
  terrible. Yeah.
• 24:44
  And like, I wasn't like, the only takes one.
• 24:47
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Other guys, could be asleep at
• 24:50
  the wheel and that one guy is the guy that can make hell on
• 24:53
  Earth. Yeah, and I'm too stupid to
• 24:55
  realize that, you know, I'm only going to make things harder on
• 24:59
  myself by, you know, like acting a certain way.
• 25:02
  But, you know, I was very vocal about how I felt about the Dude.
• 25:10
  And so they kept me, you know what I mean?
• 25:12
  Like, locked up most of the time, you know?
• 25:14
  And I mean, you're kind of in your own solitary could have no
• 25:16
  dayroom know that's tough because anytime they would, let
• 25:19
  me out. I'd be kind of like blowing on
• 25:21
  the cops know so kind of made your time harder.
• 25:25
  Yeah. And it was like, I got to a
• 25:27
  point where I was seeing people that came then it already went
• 25:32
  to court before. Like after me I'm leaving to go
• 25:36
  to prison so I was getting super Straight about that.
• 25:39
  I had already been sitting there for like, eight months and like
• 25:43
  I was starting to get pretty, pretty pissed off and it just
• 25:47
  wasn't helping anything. But finally, you know, like
• 25:51
  about eight months later after sitting there for eight months
• 25:54
  anyways, they came and got me so we're gonna pack up, but then
• 25:57
  the pack UPS, not that easy. Cuz like you were talking to me
• 26:00
  about you went through Oklahoma. Yeah.
• 26:03
  And that's like a cattle herd of people.
• 26:06
  How long do you have to spend in that?
• 26:08
  Port. I think I was only in Oklahoma
• 26:10
  for about, you know, somewhere around two weeks but you know,
• 26:16
  that's, it's crazy. Because at that point you still
• 26:22
  don't know where you don't. You mean, you're not.
• 26:24
  Yeah. And you figure, you know, you
• 26:27
  find out somewhere in that time, that you're going, where you're
• 26:29
  going and the place where I ended up going was shitty.
• 26:35
  Yeah, it was a, what's up Max? Yeah.
• 26:38
  Yeah, it was her Haute terrible USP places like a slaughterhouse
• 26:42
  man tell me about going in because I mean I've heard so
• 26:47
  many different things like what was when you entered that place?
• 26:50
  What was what was your world? Okay walk Us in there.
• 26:54
  So First of all over people, call that gladiator school.
• 27:00
  Yeah, it's Revival. And then it's like a newer.
• 27:03
  It's it was the newer Terre Haute.
• 27:05
  It wasn't the old one, you know. Like just like Leavenworth.
• 27:08
  They turned the old one into a medium and built a new one.
• 27:11
  Yeah, and well, they didn't build a new Leavenworth, new
• 27:14
  level, but they did build a new Fort Leavenworth Prison which I
• 27:19
  did get to see that but that that's that's not where you
• 27:22
  were. Yeah.
• 27:24
  Now that and then Terre Haute, Use USP was also where they had
• 27:29
  like the death row for the federal system, right?
• 27:32
  Yes, yeah. But anyways, brand-new prison 40
• 27:35
  foot, walls. Everything's, I remember
• 27:37
  thinking the worst. One of the worst things about it
• 27:40
  was everything's grey, the walls are gray.
• 27:44
  If it's like a shitty day, outside the skies gray, and you
• 27:50
  know what I mean? Like, if you're just, you're out
• 27:52
  on the yard and looking at everything.
• 27:54
  Everything's great. Everything's great.
• 27:55
  It's just so fucking depressing, man.
• 27:58
  But like, I remember the first time that I actually went out on
• 28:03
  the yard there. We we walk out and, you know,
• 28:07
  like, you know, I'm from California.
• 28:11
  So I find my people from California and, you know, I
• 28:14
  mean, like they're shown me, you know, because everything Sarah,
• 28:17
  shut up, they're showing me, you know, which handball courts I
• 28:21
  can play on and, you know, all that bullshit.
• 28:24
  And which is all really important because You know, that
• 28:27
  that's how you set up in your world, you know, you find your
• 28:31
  people, they get you set up. They, you know, you find out
• 28:35
  what the inmate rules are. The prison rules are many, it's
• 28:40
  the inmate rules. So you get set up into figuring
• 28:42
  out how to navigate this new world, you're in.
• 28:44
  Yeah, yeah. And, you know, it's like first
• 28:49
  time out on the yard shit cracks off.
• 28:51
  You know what I mean? There's full-scale Riot jumps
• 28:54
  off. I think it was between like the
• 28:56
  DC Blackstone. In the natives or something.
• 28:59
  And but like literally I'm trying to figure out which wear
• 29:04
  it so where it's okay for me to be and where it's not and
• 29:08
  there's like it's going down there, just blown tear gas all
• 29:11
  over the place and shooting rubber bullets and yeah it was
• 29:14
  a. So what was your thought Shauna?
• 29:17
  How am I going to handle this crazy new world?
• 29:20
  Did you have anything rolling around your mind?
• 29:22
  Like what am I going to do? What, how am I going to?
• 29:25
  I mean, I think at first I I was just trying to get you.
• 29:30
  You have to, like, for Maria from rip.
• 29:35
  From mural. Your eyes yourself with your
• 29:37
  surroundings and, like, understand that like there's
• 29:44
  not, you're in a situation where it's not, there's no fistfights
• 29:48
  anymore, you know what I mean? Like, if there's an altercation,
• 29:51
  it's a knife fight. You know what I mean?
• 29:53
  Like stuff. Yeah.
• 29:54
  And like, you have to I understand you like you have to
• 29:58
  figure out people's mindsets because, like, when I was at
• 30:01
  Terre Haute, eighty percent of the population had either 30
• 30:05
  years or better or why going home at all.
• 30:08
  Yeah. And so you know the whole
• 30:10
  different way of doing your time.
• 30:12
  Yeah. You're not getting out.
• 30:13
  Yeah, yeah. Nobody's.
• 30:15
  Most of these people don't have anything to lose.
• 30:17
  So you know, I mean if you step on their toe in any way.
• 30:20
  Yeah, you know you could be, you could be looking, yeah.
• 30:23
  Actually, right. You actually bump into somebody
• 30:25
  and that whole thing NG there was a little bit of that you
• 30:29
  know. And I think there's a little bit
• 30:31
  of that in every prison. Yeah it's that space.
• 30:34
  You know, that people have that invisible.
• 30:39
  What do you call that? Just your own personal space
• 30:41
  around you if you bump into that it can cause something.
• 30:44
  Yeah, you better say, excuse me? Yeah, a lot of respect goes
• 30:47
  along. Yeah.
• 30:50
  When did you because I mean I just know from being in the
• 30:55
  prison world you became A tattoo artist and that is one of those
• 31:01
  things that's really sought after and those guys almost live
• 31:04
  like kings hot because you didn't you didn't know how to do
• 31:08
  that going in. I think it's really kind of
• 31:09
  fascinating how you made that work.
• 31:11
  Is that would have also been an outlet for you to be somebody
• 31:16
  having a different way of doing your time too.
• 31:18
  So how did that all come about for you?
• 31:20
  You know what I like? And honestly I think that's the
• 31:23
  first time in my life. I actually made a conscious
• 31:26
  decision Vision to put a plan in action?
• 31:29
  Yes, it to where I could use home, executed a, hopefully, in
• 31:34
  the future. You know what I mean?
• 31:36
  I just kind of looked at it. Like, all right, I got this
• 31:39
  certain amount of time. Uh-huh.
• 31:42
  You know, like, I've always been interested in this where you
• 31:44
  kind of an artist? Yeah, I grew up, you know kind
• 31:48
  of like escaping. All the shit that I didn't want
• 31:52
  to deal with that was your Escape?
• 31:54
  Yeah, drawing, I was drawing, you know, the whole time I was
• 31:56
  growing up. Pino and never with any kind of
• 32:01
  like, you know, solid foundation or anything like that.
• 32:04
  I kind of just your thing, just looked at stuff kind of
• 32:06
  replicated it. Yeah, that kind of thing.
• 32:09
  You probably know you had a little bit of a talent for that.
• 32:11
  Yeah, I kind of recognize that I could do what some other people
• 32:16
  couldn't write, you know? And but then I got into I got
• 32:22
  into that mind frame where I'm like, I'm going to figure this
• 32:24
  shit out and man, some of those people that I figured it out on,
• 32:30
  I feel bad but you said they don't mind it.
• 32:33
  Man you know there's Road and you were trying to figure it out
• 32:36
  that they were pretty happy with it.
• 32:37
  There is no story. Was that guy dumbasses in
• 32:41
  prison? That's for sure.
• 32:43
  But yeah man I didn't know like that.
• 32:45
  I think the worst the biggest hurdle I had to overcome and I
• 32:49
  could have just asked about it I mean but how did you go about?
• 32:51
  About like the be a tattoo artist, you got to have your
• 32:54
  stuff to like, yeah. How did you get that to do that?
• 32:57
  Um so I mean a lot of times, you know, you'll either you'll
• 33:07
  you'll just kind of like put the word out, you know.
• 33:09
  Hey man I'm looking for this and people just you know, they just
• 33:12
  you know they either have it or they can get it for you.
• 33:14
  A lot of things come from kind of like red and and show us.
• 33:17
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think I can get that but A lot of stuff
• 33:22
  comes from like the maintenance department, you know what I'm
• 33:24
  saying? Like, they'll go, I don't think
• 33:26
  a lot of people realize, like, how much like the actual
• 33:30
  day-to-day systems of a prison are dependent on the actual
• 33:35
  inmates or convicts, you know what I mean?
• 33:37
  It's totally run by them. Yeah, I mean, if you think about
• 33:40
  it Shawn, I've because I had a lot of different discussions
• 33:43
  about this because it was flat, but that was maybe one of the
• 33:45
  biggest surprises to me about going to prison is I thought it
• 33:48
  was all run by CEOs. Yeah, they don't douche.
• 33:51
  She'll do anything but count. I mean, I mean, in theory, I
• 33:55
  mean, if there's fights and stuff, they'll break it up but
• 33:57
  mostly they're really, really concerned about count.
• 34:01
  Yeah. You know, count time is they and
• 34:03
  they have a hard time with a fuck that I have a really hard
• 34:07
  time and it's always our fault. Yeah.
• 34:09
  You know. And it's not, but it is, right?
• 34:11
  They get more and more pissed that they can get it.
• 34:13
  Right. And so they, you know, they're
• 34:14
  making faces at everybody and in yelling at everybody, but that's
• 34:17
  their biggest thing, everything else that's going on.
• 34:21
  It's just About anything and everything that goes on is done.
• 34:23
  But the inmates plumbing needs to get fixed.
• 34:25
  They're not calling in. No, it's the inmates.
• 34:28
  Yeah, and so cleaning. Yeah, cutting grass, everything.
• 34:32
  You could think of fixing the trucks.
• 34:34
  Yeah. Besides the medical data by
• 34:36
  can't get medical. But but yeah.
• 34:39
  So, you know, any of the things like, you know, they would do
• 34:44
  like they would, you know, like, do maintenance on like, This
• 34:50
  drives DVD player stuff like that, and, you know, they would
• 34:53
  go in, you know, supposed to be like fixing this shit.
• 34:56
  But really, they be going in and peeling.
• 34:58
  Any little Parts they could right to sell on the compound,
• 35:01
  you know what I mean? And so, you know, you would get
• 35:03
  your little Motors or or whatever you have a unicorn.
• 35:08
  Yeah, actually worked unicore. Yeah, actually, you know, Court
• 35:11
  had everything, you know, the I mean, for those who are
• 35:13
  listening out in the Cayman Islands that unicore was a place
• 35:18
  where all the Government stuff would come out of the offices of
• 35:21
  all the places, the United States and they would go
• 35:23
  disassemble them in Munich or take them apart.
• 35:26
  But these the prisoners were really good at figuring out.
• 35:29
  What worked, what didn't work? And what could be used.
• 35:32
  We have, it was almost its own little manufacturing, plant of
• 35:34
  all little things because I mean we had like movie night and
• 35:38
  somehow they would figure out these movies and get first-run
• 35:41
  movies off of those little. Yeah, thumb drives or whatever.
• 35:44
  I don't know how that happened but that's always interesting.
• 35:47
  It's funny. I like, I totally Oh, I forget
• 35:49
  about unicor sometimes but I actually worked unicore and like
• 35:53
  my line in the factory. Like we actually got the whole
• 35:58
  prison locked down for a minute because they were like, it was
• 36:03
  like where they they went from paying us a certain amount.
• 36:08
  They were switching it over to piece rate and we were doing
• 36:10
  like the Marine dress shirts and stuff like that, the uniforms
• 36:14
  and bags and stuff like that. Well, On the switch to like
• 36:19
  piecework and my job was like the hardest job on the whole
• 36:23
  shirt, you know? I mean it was put in the collars
• 36:25
  on, okay. And as far as like it's the most
• 36:28
  time-consuming, you know what I mean?
• 36:30
  So we couldn't make shit and so we're like nah, we're not doing
• 36:33
  this. You know what I mean?
• 36:34
  Like, everybody, we got together and we're like, we're not coming
• 36:37
  to work no more kind of went on strike.
• 36:39
  Yeah, we went on a strike resonate locked up.
• 36:41
  They locked the prison down. They don't like that and don't
• 36:43
  like that. Yeah, and they lock the prison
• 36:45
  down. Hoping that like the other.
• 36:47
  Her inmates were going to be like, hey, you mother fuckers,
• 36:49
  like, we're trying to, we're trying to get out to the yard.
• 36:52
  That's not what happened, they don't care, you know, I mean,
• 36:54
  they're like, yeah, fuck those guys.
• 36:56
  You know what I mean? And but yeah.
• 36:58
  So it was like, I think they had us locked down for like a whole
• 37:02
  week. Come on.
• 37:03
  And then, they were like, all right.
• 37:05
  You know, they finally softened up and they're like what do you
• 37:08
  guys want to come back to this at Leavenworth?
• 37:09
  Did you do it yourself at Terre Haute?
• 37:12
  And they were like there's, you know, only reason why I say that
• 37:15
  is whenever you guys did that. Eleven.
• 37:17
  Were it affected the? Yeah, because we had to make
• 37:19
  food for you. They call them bag.
• 37:21
  Nasty. Zoom.
• 37:22
  We they get all the guys in the kitchen and they just all the, I
• 37:27
  mean, the whole complex and make all these little bags as a bit
• 37:30
  like, peanut butter, and jelly, and whatever else.
• 37:32
  And then we throw them into this big truck.
• 37:34
  So, I worked at the food warehouse and then we back that
• 37:36
  big truck in there and we drop these big bags off because you
• 37:39
  guys were all locked out. Yeah.
• 37:41
  And it was, it was quite a deal. Yeah.
• 37:44
  Yeah. So now this was That this was at
• 37:47
  Terre Haute but anyways, the so, you know, they're like, alright,
• 37:53
  you like I said, they're trying to soften up and they're like,
• 37:55
  what do you guys want to come back to work?
• 37:57
  Because you can't there's the it's a process to teach somebody
• 38:00
  how to do this part of the shirt.
• 38:02
  It's not easy. And so they're like, we're going
• 38:05
  to take them, it's going to we're going to be down for a
• 38:07
  minute. If we have to teach all this
• 38:09
  very train and so they're like, what do you guys want to come
• 38:11
  back to work? And we like we got them to like
• 38:14
  give us the you know better. Pay for the, for the, for the
• 38:19
  you guys really did get. Yeah.
• 38:20
  They know to stop. Yeah.
• 38:21
  And and also more important than the pay we made them.
• 38:27
  They actually printed this out like up an apology letter.
• 38:31
  You're kidding. No, I'm serious.
• 38:32
  They printed us out an apology letter and heard of and then
• 38:36
  and, and then so like we agreed to go back to where I never went
• 38:41
  back to work, but all that was it for you.
• 38:43
  Yeah. That was it, that was it for you
• 38:44
  and of course, yeah. What other kind of prison job do
• 38:46
  you have Sighs unicorn because I was that was that was a house.
• 38:49
  That was so then you kind of did your own thing probably with the
• 38:52
  tattooing and yeah. So like when I was still at
• 38:55
  Terre Haute you had to have a job.
• 38:58
  So like my counselor was cool. You probably had to have a
• 39:03
  little job at Leavenworth, to didn't you?
• 39:04
  I think so. I think, I think they just
• 39:06
  require you to have it. Yeah.
• 39:07
  And regardless of what the job is, but they would give you like
• 39:10
  for me. Once I, once I started like,
• 39:13
  primarily tattooing most of the time, Um, I would get like a in
• 39:19
  the unit job like wiping down the phone there so I would sure
• 39:22
  do that shit. But you know what I mean?
• 39:23
  Or you could have because you're a tattoo artist in your prison
• 39:26
  Rich, you could have other people do that for you.
• 39:27
  Yeah, you could do that other people make your bed, you can
• 39:30
  help you do your light. You can have right people to as
• 39:32
  a tattoo artist. Yeah, it was definitely probably
• 39:36
  as close to like you said, earlier a celebrity.
• 39:39
  Is it is, I mean, it's at the top of the food chain.
• 39:42
  Yeah. And then if you're like I got
• 39:45
  honestly, I got by The time I hit, Leavenworth, I started
• 39:49
  getting pretty good at it. You know, I could say for prison
• 39:52
  tattooing, I was pretty good and I was doing like quality love to
• 39:56
  Terre Haute guys back. There was a funny-looking
• 39:58
  tattoos. You got good 1120, looking skin,
• 40:00
  they had had some scars to deal with, for sure.
• 40:04
  It wasn't pretty at all. But uh, yeah, by the time I got
• 40:07
  over, I don't really want to mess up somebody when you're in
• 40:10
  prison, because they can come back on you, but it must have
• 40:12
  been that bad. Yeah, I mean, they signed, they
• 40:14
  think they, they signed the disclaimer they knew But but
• 40:21
  yeah, I mean you can't, you tell it tell me about love work
• 40:23
  because I know a little bit about lot of work.
• 40:25
  Is it just walking in there? And I mean, you and I were
• 40:28
  talking about this before. It's 1879 prison.
• 40:32
  So it's ugly. Ugly old old.
• 40:34
  Yeah. What's your thoughts walking
• 40:36
  into that place? It was fucking great.
• 40:38
  Yeah, you liked it. I loved it.
• 40:39
  It was great. Like the the CEOs, a lot of the
• 40:42
  CEOs were still CEOs. You know, that have been there
• 40:46
  forever. Ever.
• 40:47
  Yeah. And so they don't care about a
• 40:49
  lot, you know what I mean? Like, what time go, yeah,
• 40:52
  they're just collecting a check doing their thing and then I got
• 40:57
  placed in the upper with which anybody who has been to like USP
• 41:03
  Leavenworth or you know it's actually a medium but so-called
• 41:06
  USP Leavenworth, be uppers, the place to be.
• 41:10
  You know I'm saying that's like it's a sewing back to the hood
• 41:13
  you know I'm saying well it's what like I think it's like, I
• 41:21
  can't remember saying that you were saying that the yard was a
• 41:25
  lot smaller for it, but yard was smaller than unit, was like the
• 41:28
  size of a city block. You know what I mean?
• 41:31
  Like, it just went on forever forever.
• 41:34
  And, you know, it was like the old tier style, you know what I
• 41:37
  mean? Like, pictures of it, they have
• 41:40
  pictures of it over at the OTC which is where the officer
• 41:43
  Training Center is. So they have all the pictures of
• 41:46
  the inside but the only part I ever saw Saw was when we backed
• 41:49
  up the truck to the loading dock there and we take it off and I
• 41:52
  just remembered that the floors were super, super shiny.
• 41:55
  Yeah. And that the inmates could only
• 41:57
  walk on the sides. Is that right?
• 41:59
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 41:59
  They definitely kept. They kept the floors.
• 42:01
  Pretty good and Polished but it was super old prison had all a
• 42:07
  lot of good hiding spots. Was Warden.
• 42:10
  May there when you were there or was not because Warden May was
• 42:13
  the black Warden that was he was really into cleanliness but If
• 42:18
  you got out in 2010, he was probably not there yet or
• 42:21
  already gone. But actually when I was there in
• 42:23
  2014, he left in 2017. So I don't know how long,
• 42:28
  they've been there. They've those guys what came and
• 42:30
  went more than I thought. I remember.
• 42:33
  I remember we did before. I went home.
• 42:36
  We got a new Warden. He was he was a black guy.
• 42:41
  I can't read it. It was a war in might have been
• 42:43
  him. He was real big on doing.
• 42:47
  Friday, checks on have you had your bed made military style and
• 42:51
  yeah, things went downhill after he got there for sure.
• 42:57
  But yeah, it was from where I came from.
• 42:59
  It was, it was nice. No it was like going
• 43:03
  comparatively, it was still prison but it was like I felt
• 43:06
  like you from prison to a hotel. It was a better just all around
• 43:10
  better. So yeah, you could you could put
• 43:13
  our neighborhood just to put it into perspective, like, Like
• 43:16
  when you were when you were cruising around Terre Haute,
• 43:19
  like you kept a knife on you. When you're cruising around
• 43:24
  Leavenworth, you kept a knife on you when you knew something was
• 43:28
  going down, you know what I mean?
• 43:29
  And that was pretty much you know, the rest of the time was
• 43:32
  pretty easy to get back. Yeah, yeah.
• 43:35
  Yeah. But, um, you know, it was still
• 43:39
  prison but you got used to it too.
• 43:42
  That's the other thing is that, and I've heard that the Terre
• 43:45
  Haute is not a Place, you want to stay very long, but and I've
• 43:49
  heard Leavenworth, you know, because Leavenworth did go from
• 43:52
  a maximum to medium and it all happened because of the
• 43:57
  hurricane down there and New Orleans.
• 43:59
  And they had to, they had to redistribute everybody and so
• 44:01
  that they became a medium overnight, but they still like
• 44:04
  to refer to it as a USP. Yeah, well, I mean, it was from
• 44:07
  what I understand. It was still pretty rocking
• 44:10
  before they do I think so. Yeah.
• 44:13
  And you know, the other thing that's unusual about Leavenworth
• 44:16
  is Is down at the camp. Level usually don't have fence
• 44:18
  or anything and they had tried to make that a low back I think
• 44:23
  in 1990 or 91 or something like that.
• 44:25
  And so they they fenced it and did all the stuff that you do
• 44:27
  with the sallyport coming in out.
• 44:29
  Yeah. And that big entrance in and
• 44:32
  they didn't do it. So the you got a camp down there
• 44:35
  with everything that's double fenced and Bob White and
• 44:37
  everything but I didn't really matter because we could walk to
• 44:42
  where we were going to unicore the Food Warehouse.
• 44:44
  But yeah, a lot of those guys stayed in the Dario all the
• 44:47
  whole time, which always surprised me.
• 44:49
  Because, you know, you could, if you had a job, you could go
• 44:53
  outside the fence there. Yeah.
• 44:55
  So when you start getting closer Sean to the door of your time,
• 45:01
  because I'm sure you probably got some time in the hole for.
• 45:04
  Did you get time in the hole for doing your tattoo stuff or not?
• 45:08
  I never for tattoos. I got busted for like alcohol
• 45:13
  and knives and stuff like that. And yeah, I spent almost time.
• 45:16
  You have to spend in the whole man, I would say, probably out
• 45:20
  of the whole time, I probably spent about a year of it in the
• 45:24
  shoe. That's a long time.
• 45:25
  Yeah, that's a long time when I cannot continue as snow but in
• 45:29
  and out. Yeah, did you?
• 45:32
  And Leavenworth. It was a lot easier because like
• 45:35
  you said I mean it was a nastier.
• 45:37
  It was old and grows super gross, shoo.
• 45:41
  You know, but you know like you said about the whole tattooing
• 45:45
  thing like when when I went back to the shoe I had people were
• 45:50
  sending me back coffee. You know all the shit that you
• 45:53
  weren't supposed to have you were and it was kind of like
• 45:56
  make it work. Yeah it was a lot.
• 45:58
  Yeah doable for me, you know. So were you thinking As you were
• 46:02
  getting closer to the door getting out, you know those
• 46:06
  those I don't know what is that like six months of you don't
• 46:10
  even think about it and then all of a sudden you're thinking,
• 46:13
  okay, I'm getting out and going back into society, what was
• 46:16
  going through your mind? As funny, you say that because
• 46:19
  that happened, you know, a couple times for me because, you
• 46:21
  know, I would, I would get in trouble and then lose good time
• 46:27
  to the point to where I had lost all my gosh, you're doing your
• 46:30
  whole time. I'm doing my whole time.
• 46:32
  I'm not getting any halfway house, lost my halfway house so
• 46:35
  I did 100% of my time and so I kind of went through those
• 46:40
  changes a couple different times and it was like getting geared
• 46:43
  up and you don't have like all right man I'm yeah and close and
• 46:46
  then attack on months or a year. Yeah.
• 46:49
  And so You know, for, for me, I don't think I was really that
• 46:59
  affected by it, until I actually got home, you know what I'm
• 47:04
  saying? Like, look, what happened the
• 47:07
  day you got out, who got you? How did you get out?
• 47:11
  What would you walk to like, did you get on a bus?
• 47:13
  Did you? So, one of my pick, you up one
• 47:16
  of the guys, from the camp came and got me, which is always done
• 47:20
  a weird because People probably don't know this, but there is a
• 47:25
  town driver. That is a prisoner that drives
• 47:28
  all around Leavenworth and takes people to bus stations and
• 47:32
  trains and goes and pick stuff up.
• 47:34
  Yeah, so that's what that's what happened.
• 47:36
  So he drove you to the bus station and the bus station in
• 47:40
  whatever part of the Kansas that is.
• 47:44
  Or I don't remember does it they take you over to Kansas City?
• 47:48
  Might have I think it's I think it was Kansas City.
• 47:51
  Yeah. It's just a very far away.
• 47:54
  Yeah. And then I took, you know, I got
• 47:55
  the bus home. Yeah.
• 47:58
  And then so, yeah, now I'm free. So you're free and you're not
• 48:02
  halfway house. So you've done all your time.
• 48:04
  Yeah. Straight home.
• 48:06
  Which is kind of a blessing shot because you don't want to go to
• 48:09
  the dismiss house. Yeah, this house is not a good
• 48:13
  place to hang out. So the fact that you did get in
• 48:16
  trouble and you had to do your whole time.
• 48:17
  That's the only thing I can probably say I repeat or
• 48:20
  violating before they even got out of sure.
• 48:22
  Dismiss, how's it going? Back to prison before they even
• 48:24
  actually completely out of there, right?
• 48:28
  Yeah. So yeah, that probably is
• 48:30
  probably wasn't for me, you know, it's in the worst part of
• 48:33
  town and, and there's gun fighting and drugs, and
• 48:35
  prostitution, all on the very front.
• 48:38
  Yeah, doorstep. It's not good.
• 48:40
  Yeah. It's about 100-150 guys.
• 48:43
  Locked down behind a glass lockdown.
• 48:45
  Yes. Yeah.
• 48:46
  So how was I was still while I was in prison, I was still
• 48:50
  drinking and doing drugs and stuff, so yeah.
• 48:52
  I'm going to the halfway house. I probably would have not have
• 48:54
  been a good situation. Definitely not.
• 48:56
  I remember I got home. My dad picked me up from the bus
• 49:00
  stop. Yeah.
• 49:01
  And had you been staying in touch with him.
• 49:04
  Barely barely. I think I used up.
• 49:09
  I used up pretty much any of the, like, the phone time that I
• 49:13
  had calling, because I have a son who lives with his mom and
• 49:19
  seeing in San Diego. Okay.
• 49:20
  So, how old would he be? I completely skipped over this.
• 49:22
  How did I miss this? I mean, we I so when you went in
• 49:28
  hell, would your son would have been?
• 49:31
  He was, he's too. Okay.
• 49:33
  Yeah, so I missed, I missed a lot and you know it's weird
• 49:37
  because you know history Kind of repeats itself.
• 49:39
  And it does sure he was dealing with the same thing.
• 49:42
  I was dealing with sure this fucking guy calls them once a
• 49:45
  once in a great while and I just can't wait to get off the phone,
• 49:48
  you know. I don't know who's dude.
• 49:49
  Yeah, you know cycle. Yeah and it's crazy so kind of
• 49:53
  the same thing but yeah, so So you get home, your dad picks you
• 50:01
  up. What's your next step into life?
• 50:04
  So so as you've kind of come out of prison, is somebody who was
• 50:08
  somebody? I mean, I just know.
• 50:11
  Yeah. And world had to be kind of like
• 50:13
  that, you know. And, you know, I was really
• 50:15
  comfortable with my surroundings, gotten used to it,
• 50:19
  I'm used to it and, you know, now I'm coming back home and I'm
• 50:22
  back to the same life that I was living.
• 50:25
  The obviously wasn't that great because I'm spending all my time
• 50:29
  doing Rugs and right? Um, but you know, before I went
• 50:32
  to prison, you know, I was, you know, I was in construction.
• 50:37
  I was, you know, working for a fire and water restoration
• 50:43
  company as a carpenter and had those skills.
• 50:48
  Yeah. And which is, that's a good
• 50:50
  paying job. Yeah, it's hard to find.
• 50:53
  So the first thing I try to do is I call up, you know, some
• 50:56
  companies that are worked for and they're like, hey man,
• 50:59
  Insurance won't cover you for us.
• 51:01
  You know what I mean? Like we can't we can't hire you
• 51:04
  back. They're not going to ensure a
• 51:05
  felon. I was like, okay, cool.
• 51:07
  Well, my dad he was, you know, working for himself at the time
• 51:11
  he was doing, you know, Remodeling and shit like that.
• 51:14
  And so I just went to work with him, which was cool.
• 51:18
  You know what I mean? Like, you he was paying me good.
• 51:21
  Yeah. And the only problem was is
• 51:24
  that, you know, we had a lot of catching up to do.
• 51:26
  You know what I'm saying? And probably would have given
• 51:28
  you time for that. And and so, you know, we we got
• 51:32
  in the habit of going out after work every night drinking and
• 51:37
  that turned into fucking leaving at lunch time and going and
• 51:41
  drinking. And, you know, kind of just the
• 51:46
  combination of those bad habits, kind of ran, ran the good work
• 51:50
  dry. Yeah.
• 51:52
  And so, this is really, this is really a, we're, the hard stuff
• 51:57
  starts happening because it was really, you know, For the
• 51:59
  transition from prison back home was actually pretty easy for me
• 52:03
  going you know into that because I you know I right you know I
• 52:07
  went kind of straight into a job.
• 52:10
  My PO wasn't trippin on me because she knew I was working
• 52:15
  and but then you know, the work dries up and now I gotta I look
• 52:21
  how I do, you know what I mean? And now I have to, you know, go
• 52:25
  out and try to find a job with somebody who doesn't No.
• 52:29
  Anything. But the bad about me.
• 52:31
  You know what I mean? Yeah, it's an excellent.
• 52:34
  It's a next, it's more than an extra task.
• 52:36
  Yeah. And I didn't have, I didn't have
• 52:40
  my own vehicle or and I didn't, you know, I came back with
• 52:42
  nothing. And so now, I'm like, and my dad
• 52:47
  lives in Crestwood at the time and, you know, there's not,
• 52:51
  there's not the greatest, you know, public transportation in
• 52:56
  the county and so like, any I'm I'm trying to go and Chase down
• 53:02
  like job leads. It's taking me like a full day
• 53:04
  of traveling on the bus. Sure, to make it happen.
• 53:07
  You know what I mean? And most of the time I'm running
• 53:10
  into the same thing. You know what I mean?
• 53:13
  Not, we're not going to hire you, we're not going to hire
• 53:15
  you, you know. And you know, I was actually
• 53:20
  listening to your podcast and I heard you use the word paralysis
• 53:27
  in a situation. And I remember thinking, like,
• 53:31
  it took me back to that time period where I was having to
• 53:37
  fight to look for this job and that word kind of like was
• 53:41
  exactly what was happening to me.
• 53:43
  I remember I would find myself standing in the living room on
• 53:47
  my dad's house, looking out the front window and just being
• 53:51
  stuck. Like I would just be standing
• 53:53
  behind that window, knowing that I needed to get my feet moving
• 53:57
  out, the fucking door to Go find a job and I just could not leave
• 54:01
  the house. Like I just I couldn't do it.
• 54:05
  Like I knew that I was wasting my time.
• 54:09
  You could feel it. Yeah.
• 54:10
  You were mentally draft. Yeah.
• 54:12
  And I remember like I developed like like my hands.
• 54:19
  My palms would just sweat like crazy during this time period.
• 54:24
  And it was like temporary, you know what I mean?
• 54:26
  Like, it went away on its own. You know what I mean?
• 54:29
  Like it was just a real, it was a hard time, you know, I mean it
• 54:32
  was a super hard time and but you know, why did you step out
• 54:38
  of it? Because a lot of people don't
• 54:39
  well, you know, it's like, Sings, you know what I mean?
• 54:45
  Like, it doesn't it when you're in those moments.
• 54:49
  It's hard. And it is hard to step out of,
• 54:52
  but it doesn't take much to, you know, I mean, you just need like
• 54:56
  a little glimmer of something positive, you know what I mean?
• 55:01
  And I think I ended up I ended up getting getting on with
• 55:09
  another guy that I used to work for a long time ago.
• 55:13
  My dad used to work for for a long time ago.
• 55:15
  Yeah, ended up, you know, he ended up taking me on which is
• 55:21
  always such a huge deal and you know for those that are
• 55:23
  listening out there giving somebody a second chance
• 55:27
  opportunity when you don't know how much they appreciate that
• 55:32
  opportunity because of what you're talking about Shawn is
• 55:35
  that feeling of not going to another shutdown.
• 55:39
  Go on to another shutdown going down to another.
• 55:41
  No and then somebody, you know, finally she know I Take you.
• 55:44
  Yeah, do it and you know that and you know that definitely
• 55:49
  helped for that time where I needed to just kind of, like,
• 55:53
  push through that period. And, but at the same time, that
• 56:00
  kind of situation that work situation, wasn't one.
• 56:03
  I want it either, you know what I mean, like, thank you what it
• 56:05
  was this it was a step down from what I was used to.
• 56:09
  It was not, you know, I'm trying to move forward, not back.
• 56:12
  I mean, I think it's a big deal. You took that because I mean,
• 56:14
  you got to humble yourself to step into a situation like that
• 56:17
  too. Yeah.
• 56:17
  And then so, you know, at the same time, you know, I'm
• 56:20
  realizing this isn't what I want.
• 56:22
  This is not, you know, I'm not heading in the right direction.
• 56:25
  This is a direction, straight back to where I came from.
• 56:28
  I know this, this is, you can feel it, you know what I mean?
• 56:31
  Like, this is the unhappy with what I'm doing.
• 56:35
  So I'm going to substitute was some drinking and drugs and you
• 56:38
  know, it's a really great shot back.
• 56:40
  You know what I mean? And so I was like, you know, I
• 56:43
  kind of just came To this point where I was like, what am I
• 56:46
  doing? Like I learned how to do this
• 56:48
  shit. I had this plan, what happened?
• 56:50
  How did I forget to plant? How do I get to do to her going?
• 56:53
  Yeah. And and so I'm like, all right,
• 56:58
  man. I'm just gonna, I'm going to
• 56:59
  start trying to figure it out and so, I started, you know,
• 57:03
  making time to go to different tattoo shops in st.
• 57:07
  Louis. And, you know, I would walk in
• 57:12
  and kind of, you know, I don't know what to say, you know, I
• 57:14
  don't know. I don't know anything about the
• 57:16
  professional tattoo artist. Just finished doing a lot of,
• 57:19
  you know what I mean? Like that I have barely even
• 57:21
  ever. I think I maybe had one
• 57:23
  professional tattoo on my body period and And it was from a
• 57:28
  long time ago, you know what I mean?
• 57:30
  And so, I walk in and I understand today because this is
• 57:36
  my career, and yeah, I haven't had a great business, right?
• 57:40
  And, and so, I walk into these places and I'm like, hey man,
• 57:44
  I'm trying to tattoo. I was Tattooing in prison, and
• 57:48
  that's the last thing anybody ever wants to hear that.
• 57:52
  So that's you don't lead with. Yeah, you don't, you don't live
• 57:54
  lead with that and so I got Got, you know, basically laughed out
• 58:00
  of a lot of shops. I remember I walked into like
• 58:03
  probably one of the more probably the most known tattoo
• 58:07
  shop in st. Louis.
• 58:10
  And, you know, I gave him gave him the, you know, run down and
• 58:14
  it was funny because there was probably a group of about four
• 58:17
  of them standing at the front counter.
• 58:20
  And as soon as I started getting, you know, like towards
• 58:23
  the end of the sentence, all of them, except for one pretty
• 58:26
  much. Turned around and just walked
• 58:28
  away. Just let you this left me.
• 58:31
  And I remember it pissed me off so bad and like I'm like coming
• 58:37
  from a place where it's like ultraviolent, you know?
• 58:40
  I mean and I'm like I just want to fuck these guys.
• 58:43
  They don't know and they don't even know.
• 58:45
  You don't even mean and this one.
• 58:47
  Dude, I wish I knew I wish I knew what his name was.
• 58:51
  I wish I wish I could remember because I would definitely.
• 58:57
  If I can recall it was like a couple minutes of my life and so
• 59:01
  I can't even really recall what his face looked like but he was
• 59:06
  like, hey man after everybody walked away and just dipped on
• 59:09
  me he was like Hey man if you're really serious about this shit
• 59:14
  this is what you need to do like so don't actually give.
• 59:17
  Yeah yeah yeah he was like don't come in here talking that shit.
• 59:21
  And he was like They gave you advice.
• 59:25
  Yeah, bring in a portfolio of some drawings or some pictures
• 59:30
  of some tattoos, unless they're terrible.
• 59:34
  Yeah. And and take those with you and
• 59:37
  don't say shit about prison, you know what I mean?
• 59:40
  It's my stuff. Yeah.
• 59:41
  And, and so the advice though. Yeah.
• 59:43
  And so I at least walked out of there was something other than a
• 59:47
  shitty attitude and kind of a game changer.
• 59:51
  Yeah. And then so the next place I
• 59:55
  went into was the shop that my wife had just opened.
• 1:00:04
  Obviously she wasn't my wife at the time.
• 1:00:06
  Did you know her at all? I didn't know her at all.
• 1:00:08
  No. And so I walk into this place.
• 1:00:13
  And I'm like, hey man, like I got these pictures.
• 1:00:16
  I actually, you know, one of the things that was cool about
• 1:00:19
  Leavenworth is like, you could like feel like that, you know,
• 1:00:23
  one of the things it was cool about lot of work.
• 1:00:25
  Yeah. Exactly.
• 1:00:25
  Like a t-shirt. Yeah.
• 1:00:27
  They let you they would let you like Terre Haute.
• 1:00:30
  You couldn't do this. That you had to take like just
• 1:00:33
  regular photos. Yeah, full body photos.
• 1:00:36
  You couldn't zoom in on nothing but Leavenworth, you could zoom
• 1:00:40
  in on just a tattoo like you That.
• 1:00:43
  Yeah, I had a bunch of pictures. I still have them.
• 1:00:45
  Yeah, a bunch of pictures of just tattoos and I was like real
• 1:00:50
  nigga had if I had a little portfolio is awesome.
• 1:00:53
  And so I went in there with that stuff and I was like, hey, you
• 1:00:56
  know what I mean? My name is Shawn.
• 1:00:58
  I'm trying to figure out how to tattoo for, you know, on a
• 1:01:01
  professional level. I've been doing it for a while.
• 1:01:06
  Didn't say the whole prison thing right off the bat, this is
• 1:01:10
  what I got. And they were looked at Them and
• 1:01:13
  they were like, okay, well, you know, where are you from?
• 1:01:16
  I look different. You know what I mean?
• 1:01:17
  I didn't look like I was from st.
• 1:01:19
  Louis. Yeah.
• 1:01:20
  So these, you know, my wife also grew up in California, so she's
• 1:01:26
  a California girl. Yeah, well, she was born, she
• 1:01:28
  was born out here, but then, you know what I mean, like, grew up
• 1:01:31
  and spent a lot of time out in California.
• 1:01:33
  And so that was like, you know, action another Icebreaker talk
• 1:01:37
  about a lot of shit. And, you know, by the end of the
• 1:01:40
  um, by the end of the night, you know, She was like well you know
• 1:01:44
  stop back in whenever you want you know what I mean?
• 1:01:46
  Will try to help you with whatever we can and It took me
• 1:01:53
  like a whole nother month to come back in and make it work.
• 1:01:55
  Yeah and but I did come back around and and when I did come
• 1:02:00
  back around she was like hey what's up stranger?
• 1:02:03
  You know what I mean? Like I was like oh she you know,
• 1:02:06
  they remember, they remember you.
• 1:02:08
  Yeah and and you know it just kind of from there it was kind
• 1:02:16
  of more a little bit more solidified like yeah we'll help
• 1:02:19
  you out. I'm not going to guarantee you a
• 1:02:23
  job but I'll help you out to up to figure out this thing, you
• 1:02:28
  know. And it was it was kind of a um,
• 1:02:32
  it was a weird dynamic of what was happening at the shop at
• 1:02:35
  that time. She opened in 2009 at the time
• 1:02:42
  when I had walked in, there was a couple other artists working
• 1:02:46
  there. One of them happened to be Her
• 1:02:51
  husband that she was divorcing. Okay so they were in the middle
• 1:02:55
  of you know they're all gone divorce process and You know, it
• 1:03:02
  kind of made it different little dicey.
• 1:03:05
  Yeah, little little different. So I'm trying to.
• 1:03:09
  So, I'm working this job. This construction job.
• 1:03:11
  Any free time. I'm coming in, trying to learn
• 1:03:13
  this shit. Well, It turns into a
• 1:03:20
  relationship like pretty quick between my wife and I who owns
• 1:03:24
  the tattoo shop. And so it's a way to solidify
• 1:03:30
  the job shot and go in and just make the girl your girlfriend
• 1:03:34
  and white. Yeah.
• 1:03:35
  Actually, it was kind of the other way around.
• 1:03:37
  I mean, I didn't really have a lot of choice in the matter.
• 1:03:43
  I'll say, yes. I've she kind of just kidnap me.
• 1:03:46
  I just sit here. I've got you.
• 1:03:48
  Yeah and but anyways um you know some shit kind of happened at
• 1:03:52
  the tattoo shop where I kind of had to step in with the other
• 1:04:02
  guys. They were kind of, like, money
• 1:04:05
  issues were happening. People were there to resolve.
• 1:04:09
  Yeah. I had to resolve some issues.
• 1:04:11
  And I think, when my wife realized that there was somebody
• 1:04:16
  who was going to have her back instead of taking advantage of
• 1:04:19
  her, like she could have been used to for most of her life she
• 1:04:24
  was like You, you get the fuck out of here.
• 1:04:29
  You know what I mean? And, you know, that kind of
• 1:04:33
  wiped out the whole crew. Yeah, so we're just you and her
• 1:04:36
  and then it was just me and her and so Then she's like realize
• 1:04:42
  what she did? She did I think?
• 1:04:44
  And she was like well I need your help now, right?
• 1:04:47
  And I'm still working this job. And so you know the next day I'm
• 1:04:52
  like I call of dude. I'm like hey man, sorry I
• 1:04:54
  appreciate you, I appreciate you know you helping me out this is
• 1:04:59
  this is the path. I'm going.
• 1:05:01
  You know what I mean? And it was really hard in the
• 1:05:04
  beginning. You know what I mean?
• 1:05:05
  Like we my wife and I We struggled, you know, we starting
• 1:05:12
  any business is hard, you know that a lot of people see these
• 1:05:16
  successful businesses and they think well they got really lucky
• 1:05:19
  most of the time. It's a lot of struggle to get
• 1:05:22
  something. Yeah, get momentum and get
• 1:05:24
  business. I would sit in there for what we
• 1:05:27
  would both sit in there for Days.
• 1:05:31
  Yeah. And not make a dime, you know
• 1:05:33
  what I mean? Like sometimes we would make a
• 1:05:35
  hundred dollars in a week, you know what I'm saying?
• 1:05:38
  And You know, we just wanted to stick.
• 1:05:42
  When did it start taking off for you guys?
• 1:05:44
  I know you have a successful business now was so we, you
• 1:05:49
  know, we kind of just, you know, tried to keep plugging away at
• 1:05:52
  it. What what really was the turning
• 1:05:59
  point for us was, we kind of outgrew this store that we were
• 1:06:04
  in the unit that we were in in the shop and get some location.
• 1:06:08
  Yeah. It was super small and we ended
• 1:06:13
  up just to you know kind of cut cut this short, the story, you
• 1:06:17
  know, a little bit short we ended up because there's a whole
• 1:06:20
  other aspect of things that happen but we ended up up moving
• 1:06:26
  upstairs and Street side where you could we were super visible
• 1:06:33
  from Lemay and Limburg. Sorry, but I could see it.
• 1:06:36
  And like as soon as we moved up there, It was like instantaneous
• 1:06:43
  business just like at least tripled right off the bat.
• 1:06:46
  Wow. And you know like most of the
• 1:06:49
  people that came in they were like a we didn't even know a
• 1:06:52
  tattoo shop was here and by that point we viewed it was.
• 1:06:56
  I mean it was at least five years.
• 1:06:58
  You know what I mean? Like of.
• 1:07:00
  So that in that time period you're growing this business and
• 1:07:03
  we're struggling with this business, You've Got a Brand New
• 1:07:06
  World with Your girl from California, whose St.
• 1:07:11
  Louis girl, didn't you both? How's all that.
• 1:07:14
  I mean, he's everything, I mean, did that all?
• 1:07:16
  Because at that point, you didn't talk about having a lot
• 1:07:19
  of relationships. So this seems like this when you
• 1:07:21
  locked in on was the real deal. Yeah and we you know like it was
• 1:07:27
  it, we went through some stuff to, you know, what I mean?
• 1:07:30
  Like, we went in that time period.
• 1:07:32
  We kind of had separated a little bit and, you know, gotten
• 1:07:37
  back together and I actually, you know, in this time period, I
• 1:07:42
  had caught a violation, went back to Leavenworth and she, you
• 1:07:45
  know, kind of what was that? Like, I tear my mean, I can't
• 1:07:47
  imagine that's like every man's nightmare.
• 1:07:50
  Every person's nightmare is to get to violation and they
• 1:07:53
  usually send you back to where you were.
• 1:07:54
  Yeah, I went back to life. How long did you were there?
• 1:07:57
  I was there for well, it's a, it's a story, but yeah.
• 1:08:03
  So I got another six months which was not what my Here was
• 1:08:09
  trying to give me. She was trying to give me like
• 1:08:11
  the full extra two years and but the judge was like, Hey man take
• 1:08:17
  the six months and shut the fuck up you know.
• 1:08:19
  And and so by the time education violation on what are they throw
• 1:08:25
  you back in there for? I wasn't checking in like I was
• 1:08:29
  missing because I they just didn't violations are rules and
• 1:08:32
  things that they put in procedure for your supervision.
• 1:08:35
  Yeah. And like when so like I said,
• 1:08:39
  Add me and my, my wife had split up at it for a time period.
• 1:08:42
  I started I kind of went all the way backwards at them Point,
• 1:08:46
  remember start? Yeah, regressed started started
• 1:08:50
  spending all my time in the bar started doing drugs again and
• 1:08:54
  then, that's when the P my PO, you know?
• 1:08:57
  And the first of all, she she kind of like gave me way too
• 1:09:01
  much information in the first place, like my PO did she, you
• 1:09:05
  know? Let me know.
• 1:09:07
  Well you can if You if you miss every other, if you miss every
• 1:09:12
  other drop then you're going to get like four hours of community
• 1:09:16
  service. So I knew I could miss, I could
• 1:09:20
  I could be here telling you how to do this.
• 1:09:22
  Yeah. And I could skip it and then
• 1:09:24
  just clean up for the next one and I'd be good if not, I just
• 1:09:28
  wouldn't go. I would never, I would never
• 1:09:30
  show up if I was dirty period, then that I would just give
• 1:09:33
  community service and I would be good.
• 1:09:36
  And so, I think she kind of got pissed off.
• 1:09:39
  Off that she that I was you were working.
• 1:09:41
  This wasn't working her for a while and and then she kind of
• 1:09:45
  added some stuff on there to, you know, she went back to
• 1:09:50
  Leavenworth. I mean that had to be weird to
• 1:09:53
  walk back in there. It was terrible.
• 1:09:56
  So when I had to go back through Oklahoma, when I went, when I
• 1:10:00
  went back through Oklahoma it was Christmastime and This one I
• 1:10:08
  guess this one Co that was pissed off because he's working
• 1:10:10
  Christmas and was treating everybody like shit.
• 1:10:13
  And I fucking lost it on his ass because he was like, super slow
• 1:10:17
  playing us on like our Christmas dinner meal or whatever and like
• 1:10:22
  he was, he was fucking with us, you know what I mean?
• 1:10:24
  Like? Yeah, literally.
• 1:10:26
  You know what I mean? Like they're causing.
• 1:10:28
  There were guys in, there was a guy that at Leavenworth that
• 1:10:31
  took all the stuff that we were supposed to have for our holiday
• 1:10:34
  or this Thanksgiving or Christmas and they had Put in
• 1:10:37
  because they had those big bowls, he had put all in that
• 1:10:39
  big bowl and they that's how he just made it as he put
• 1:10:43
  everything that was supposed to be served all in that thing and
• 1:10:45
  cooked it and said, fuck you guys.
• 1:10:48
  It was like anyway. Yeah, it was like that same kind
• 1:10:52
  of situation and I fucking started throwing shit at this
• 1:10:56
  motherfucker. And yeah, they came so Christmas
• 1:10:59
  Christmas. Christmas day I was in the shoe
• 1:11:02
  at Oklahoma City. So you got to see the shoe and
• 1:11:04
  I'll call ya and So that's suck. They put me in with some fucking
• 1:11:08
  lunatic. Yeah, he was driving me crazy.
• 1:11:11
  The whole time I was trying not to beat his ass and so you made
• 1:11:16
  it out of there. Yeah.
• 1:11:17
  Got the left, actor, Leavenworth.
• 1:11:19
  And I think that same Warden that you were talking about had
• 1:11:23
  already switched up. Like he had already gotten rid
• 1:11:26
  of all the stores in the units. Like you know the store guys who
• 1:11:29
  would start everything up? Yeah, they would stock up all
• 1:11:32
  the extra shits. You could buy whatever you want
• 1:11:34
  without having to know. I think that.
• 1:11:36
  Yeah. Take that he did all that.
• 1:11:37
  Yeah yeah. Gotten rid of all the even
• 1:11:41
  cleared out like all the two-man rooms and the Camp's you
• 1:11:45
  couldn't have anything in there. It was all stripped down to just
• 1:11:47
  you know, your little table thing and your locker.
• 1:11:50
  You pleasure. You can have anything hanging up
• 1:11:52
  for. Yeah.
• 1:11:52
  You fucking really changed, changed it all and and what else
• 1:11:57
  was it? Yeah.
• 1:11:59
  You couldn't. You're spending limit.
• 1:12:00
  You could only spend a certain amount.
• 1:12:03
  It's on. So like, I mean, I didn't even
• 1:12:06
  bother Either tattooing because nobody could pay me anything,
• 1:12:08
  right? You know what I mean?
• 1:12:09
  Unless they sent it straight to my books but I didn't need money
• 1:12:14
  anymore because I'm already out here on the streets tattooing
• 1:12:17
  and yeah, and I was thinking, so you go in there for 6 months,
• 1:12:21
  how does that work with your relationship coming out?
• 1:12:24
  Now you're coming out to your. Are you guys married not yet?
• 1:12:27
  Okay, so you're coming out and I know by talking to Robert that
• 1:12:31
  you also go into a really hardcore thing.
• 1:12:34
  Again, clean is that at the same time that you decide, Decided
• 1:12:37
  all this no, no, no, no. So you took another step on
• 1:12:41
  that. Okay, yeah.
• 1:12:42
  So you know, I go back to prison my chick.
• 1:12:46
  She tries it out with him, you know.
• 1:12:53
  So I come home, this is the the time frame.
• 1:12:57
  I come home and instantly go right into building the new
• 1:13:02
  tattoo shop in the new spot where we're at now.
• 1:13:04
  Okay, and so, that's kind of like, when we started when start
• 1:13:09
  focusing on that. Yeah, and like I said, soon as
• 1:13:12
  we did that moved into the new spot, shit starts taking off.
• 1:13:18
  And older start? Yeah, yeah, things are going
• 1:13:21
  good. And you know, I take eventually
• 1:13:27
  end up taking another dive. I'm drinking I never stopped
• 1:13:31
  drinking, you know what I mean? And you know that was that was
• 1:13:36
  alcohol has always been my gateway drug, you know what I
• 1:13:39
  mean? Like the party's never over.
• 1:13:42
  So I'm going to keep drinking and then, you know, it's going
• 1:13:45
  to turn eventually turn into a good eye.
• 1:13:47
  So what made you what made you come to a fork in the road?
• 1:13:52
  Let's see. So so, my wife would be would be
• 1:13:56
  taking trips actually, my whole family would be would be taken
• 1:14:01
  trips Vacations, or whatever I would use me working as an
• 1:14:05
  excuse to Exclude myself from these family events so I could
• 1:14:13
  just be left at home alone to where I could do whatever I
• 1:14:15
  wanted. So I would stay home and you
• 1:14:19
  know, either either drink or drink and get high.
• 1:14:23
  And so, you know, I like I just fell into this kind of comfort
• 1:14:29
  zone, you know. Like, I didn't need money.
• 1:14:31
  Money was good. and, You know what I mean?
• 1:14:38
  Like, I was kind of just coasting like in my family life.
• 1:14:41
  I wasn't, you know, I wasn't really putting on putting 100%
• 1:14:45
  into that. You know what I mean?
• 1:14:47
  Kind of just doing the bare minimum on life still.
• 1:14:51
  And, and like I said, you know, I was, you know, excluding
• 1:14:56
  myself from these events. And one of the times when my, I
• 1:15:02
  think they were actually went on like a skiing trip to Colorado,
• 1:15:08
  and my health, my whole family went I stayed home and ended up
• 1:15:14
  staying home. Doing drink in doing a lot of
• 1:15:17
  drugs, ended up having like a psychotic episode went totally
• 1:15:25
  schizophrenic for probably a week straight kind of throttled
• 1:15:33
  back on the drugs enough to be halfway sane.
• 1:15:37
  And did more. And so it just got worse and
• 1:15:39
  worse in about a week's time period.
• 1:15:42
  And long story short, you kind of hit rock bottom on that and I
• 1:15:48
  used to, you know what I mean? Like I used to you know, have
• 1:15:51
  conversations with myself where I'd be like man, what is my
• 1:15:56
  bottom look like, because I'd always hear of everybody talked
• 1:15:58
  about, you know, they hit bottom and shit because I had been to
• 1:16:01
  meetings and stuff like that and I was like, man, I don't want to
• 1:16:06
  know what my bottom. Is because I've already been to
• 1:16:08
  prison bunch of times, will not a bunch of times.
• 1:16:11
  But several times, you know what I mean?
• 1:16:15
  Like, I've already been homeless and neglected, you know what I
• 1:16:19
  mean? I've already been all this shit.
• 1:16:21
  So, like, what's my bottom will? My bottom ended up being going
• 1:16:25
  crazy and Thinking that like all of, you know, I had this
• 1:16:33
  paranoid paranoid, you know, thing going on where my whole
• 1:16:38
  past you know, past good part of my life from prison on was this
• 1:16:43
  huge lie and I'm not going to go into it but anyways I ended up
• 1:16:48
  going to jail getting released from jail the whole time.
• 1:16:52
  I'm in a psychotic continuous like I'm seeing shit that's not
• 1:16:56
  there. I'm hearing voices the whole
• 1:16:58
  time and All saying bad shit to me, you know what I mean?
• 1:17:02
  And I ended up leaving jail going to walking to the Home
• 1:17:07
  Depot. Pulling a razor off the shelf
• 1:17:11
  and fucking started cutting any fucking artery.
• 1:17:13
  I could reach in the bathroom. Well the Home Depot and like I
• 1:17:18
  sat there and like I have I have like gnarly scars from from my
• 1:17:23
  wrist up to my elbow, across the inside of my joints on both
• 1:17:27
  arms. Like I even tried getting in my
• 1:17:29
  arm Pits and like I sat there on top of the toilet bleeding out
• 1:17:36
  into the toilet, so I wouldn't get like, spotted or anything
• 1:17:40
  like that. And and then I just kind of, you
• 1:17:43
  know, vaguely remember going out, hitting the floor and then
• 1:17:48
  ambulances. And then I got taken to, I guess
• 1:17:55
  like, like a recovery Iverson. Like, a Recovery Center, not
• 1:17:59
  like, You know, just like processing.
• 1:18:02
  I guess, you know to make sure that I was like okay in the head
• 1:18:06
  to be out and about. Yeah and so I'm there for two
• 1:18:12
  days. Before I actually come back to
• 1:18:14
  sanity enough to realize that my my wife is still my wife.
• 1:18:20
  She's not trying to kill me where you staying up to.
• 1:18:24
  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's probably slept in a long
• 1:18:26
  time. Yeah.
• 1:18:27
  And so I come. I'm back to reality and I call
• 1:18:31
  my wife, she's obviously fucking been looking for me freaking the
• 1:18:35
  fuck out of. Yeah.
• 1:18:36
  And and then so she shows up to this place and she sees what
• 1:18:39
  I've done to myself and she's like freaked out.
• 1:18:43
  Yeah. She's like, I can't, you know, I
• 1:18:45
  can't do this. That's too much and then we go
• 1:18:50
  see Robert, okay? Robert Riley's second.
• 1:18:54
  Yeah. So, the podcast who did some
• 1:18:55
  incredible things with Narcan and housing and recovery
• 1:19:00
  centers. He's a cool guy.
• 1:19:01
  Yeah. And so she's already talked to
• 1:19:03
  him. She's like, I don't know what to
• 1:19:04
  do. Like I can't deal.
• 1:19:06
  Just do shit. Like I said, we have known him
• 1:19:09
  since before, you know, my recovery journey.
• 1:19:12
  And, and so he's like, you know, Tell me what's going on.
• 1:19:17
  You know what I mean? Like, I got in the room with
• 1:19:19
  them, he's like, tell me what's going on.
• 1:19:21
  And I tell him what I can remember, you know, not of The
• 1:19:24
  Psychotic episode but, you know, even Roberts been able to
• 1:19:28
  connect with so many different people from people.
• 1:19:30
  I've heard he's got can get down on a level.
• 1:19:32
  I think he saved a lot of people's lives.
• 1:19:34
  Yeah, yeah. For sure.
• 1:19:35
  And then, you know, he kind of he told me his story, you know,
• 1:19:39
  while we're sitting there and and then obviously, you know,
• 1:19:42
  for me and him, you know, same with you.
• 1:19:45
  Like It's super relatable. We've been through the same
• 1:19:47
  things, right? And so you know, he's got these
• 1:19:53
  These recovery houses and so you got to go in there.
• 1:19:59
  He's like, listen, man, come stay at this house.
• 1:20:04
  Give your wife were married by then.
• 1:20:06
  You know what I mean? Like, we, we went and got
• 1:20:10
  married in San Diego and La Jolla on the beach and shit
• 1:20:14
  sounds. Yeah, it was tight except for
• 1:20:16
  the guy in the speedo that we're not out of our shot but
• 1:20:19
  photobombing. Yeah.
• 1:20:20
  And but so I see It. I stayed at the house on
• 1:20:26
  Minnesota and probably the one of the biggest factors was the
• 1:20:37
  humble Factor, you know what I mean?
• 1:20:39
  Like at this point I got shit. You know what I mean?
• 1:20:44
  Like, I'm not living the same life life, right?
• 1:20:46
  Then I'm used to get a business and you got things going on?
• 1:20:48
  I got a house, you know what I mean?
• 1:20:50
  In a subdivision, nice, subdivision is stuff.
• 1:20:52
  Right? And it's like now I'm in this
• 1:20:55
  downtown sober living in on State Street in a dope set you
• 1:21:01
  know? I mean like it's totally
• 1:21:02
  different. I can walk out the front door
• 1:21:04
  and get anything I want, right? And it was super humbling for
• 1:21:08
  me. You know what I mean?
• 1:21:10
  Like I had to take that shit on the chin and um, And so I stayed
• 1:21:17
  down there for shit. I don't remember exactly how
• 1:21:20
  long but almost immediately another guy that I think Robert
• 1:21:27
  was sponsoring at the time. Robert had talked to and he's
• 1:21:31
  like, hey man go you know I already I had already met him
• 1:21:34
  through other people and doing other stuff but he's like, hey
• 1:21:37
  man, I want you to talk to this, dude, for me, help him up and
• 1:21:42
  so, um, Phil, you know, like he came and you know I was hanging
• 1:21:49
  out with me. He's like, hey man, come to
• 1:21:51
  these meetings with me and he's like, I'm gonna, you know what I
• 1:21:54
  mean? Like, you know, I think you need
• 1:21:57
  help. The most important thing is the
• 1:21:58
  sponsor, I think, you know, if you're cool with that like let's
• 1:22:02
  work on that whole accountability.
• 1:22:04
  Oh yeah. And so I went through the whole,
• 1:22:05
  you know, working the steps with him and that that part was the
• 1:22:11
  big change. There was your deal.
• 1:22:12
  That was that was the was the moment where you thought.
• 1:22:16
  I got to make this and I'm going to step into.
• 1:22:18
  Yeah, I did. I did the work, you know, thank
• 1:22:22
  God for Phil. I just I just find it.
• 1:22:24
  Always so fascinating. Sean, how I know it's got to be
• 1:22:29
  incredibly difficult. So, you know, you're talking
• 1:22:33
  about being paralyzed and, you know, looking out that window.
• 1:22:37
  I'm always so impressed by people who have the story that
• 1:22:40
  you have and you decide as some point because some people never
• 1:22:45
  do. I mean so you can die, you know,
• 1:22:48
  you you willed yourself, gridded yourself into that world that
• 1:22:53
  you wanted. He did get a fork in the road,
• 1:22:55
  you could have died at the Home Depot, you didn't, but how you
• 1:23:00
  can stay and do and keep stepping when it's difficult
• 1:23:05
  because, you know, whatever that is, It's always that.
• 1:23:09
  There's something where you're wired in, you can be, you can
• 1:23:12
  get addicted to something. Somebody else doesn't get a
• 1:23:14
  dick. So, you have to try, you know,
• 1:23:16
  three times as hard, not to hmm, plus you've got so many things
• 1:23:19
  you can fall back on. And I had a bad childhood, you
• 1:23:22
  know what, my dad was his might, but you wipe all that out.
• 1:23:25
  So now I'm just going to do it. Well, I think I got into, I got
• 1:23:28
  into a habit, through my whole life, you know.
• 1:23:31
  Uh-huh of pretending like, none of that shit.
• 1:23:34
  Bothered me in the first place, right?
• 1:23:36
  So no big deal. Yeah.
• 1:23:37
  Yeah, but yeah, like I think, you know, I hadn't even
• 1:23:44
  processed the thought yet. That almost abandoned my whole
• 1:23:49
  family. Yeah, you know what I mean?
• 1:23:51
  Like, my daughter, my younger daughter.
• 1:23:55
  She wouldn't even talk to me, and that shit.
• 1:23:59
  Ruined me doing Helm hell's Junger daughters that time.
• 1:24:02
  So much at the time. Let's see.
• 1:24:04
  She's, she's 19 now. Yeah.
• 1:24:07
  So I mean, she was It's just I think Junior High School.
• 1:24:11
  Yeah. I mean, she just put off just to
• 1:24:15
  talk. Yeah.
• 1:24:16
  Yeah. I'll good daughters.
• 1:24:17
  That's really bad when her daughter's.
• 1:24:18
  Don't talk. Yeah, dude.
• 1:24:19
  That was like an hour. How I would come and talk to
• 1:24:21
  Phil cuz my wife she was pretty. She was pretty.
• 1:24:32
  She was like, I'm not going anywhere.
• 1:24:34
  Well, trying to get your fuck. What you're feeling.
• 1:24:36
  You know what I mean? Like I don't care.
• 1:24:38
  Yeah, she was like I'm right here but you need to get your
• 1:24:41
  shit together but I don't care what you're going through.
• 1:24:43
  You know what I mean? She owes that she hit me with
• 1:24:45
  that tough love tough love, which is what I needed.
• 1:24:48
  But then when my daughter wouldn't speak to me, that
• 1:24:51
  really triggered. I had to talk to somebody about
• 1:24:54
  that shit, you know, and Phil help me work through that.
• 1:24:56
  He's like hey man you just you know like show them you Have to
• 1:25:02
  understand that you don't have control over anything in this
• 1:25:05
  world except for what you can do, right?
• 1:25:08
  And so you're the only one that can take the stuff.
• 1:25:10
  Yeah. And the right direction, not
• 1:25:12
  everybody else. Yeah, I mean you got made that
• 1:25:14
  decision. People that can help you
• 1:25:16
  sponsors but it's you that has to.
• 1:25:18
  Yeah, you have to do the work. So how do you feel now?
• 1:25:22
  You don't fucking blessed. I so the thing.
• 1:25:30
  Some, some changes I think that were really good for me.
• 1:25:36
  I went through. Have you ever heard of?
• 1:25:38
  I think it's called Eat. EMDR, I have young the alright,
• 1:25:45
  I've had that treatment done. It's like, you know, like a
• 1:25:49
  treat treatment they used commonly for like, you know,
• 1:25:53
  PTSD stuff like that. Yeah, that was a huge, huge
• 1:25:57
  thing for me to be able to release a lot of things.
• 1:26:01
  And, and I like through doing like, a lot of work, you know,
• 1:26:07
  kind of aside from like recovery, but more in like,
• 1:26:10
  Colonel shit. I also kind of, you know, like
• 1:26:16
  started feeling like a human being for the first time in my
• 1:26:19
  life because I realized at that point, you know that I had never
• 1:26:22
  really, I've never been happy. Like I didn't know what
• 1:26:25
  Metalized. Yes indeed.
• 1:26:28
  Yeah, when somebody focused on, um, and so like I finally felt
• 1:26:32
  good and comfortable with myself and it was just like unlocking
• 1:26:38
  this door to where it didn't matter what.
• 1:26:40
  Been like everything's going to be all right.
• 1:26:42
  You know what I mean? And so we had people around you,
• 1:26:46
  that care. Do you know you get a wife and
• 1:26:48
  yeah a daughter that wants you to be who you want to be.
• 1:26:52
  Yeah, which is great. Yeah.
• 1:26:53
  And and then so I also in doing that my wife was still having
• 1:26:59
  kind of a hard time with a lot of things and so I was like, hey
• 1:27:04
  man why don't you know this shit really helped for me, why don't
• 1:27:07
  you Why don't you look into it and she was like, open to that
• 1:27:11
  and US dealing with things together and hurdling lead on a
• 1:27:16
  job? Yeah.
• 1:27:17
  And her dealing with things on her own like we, we haven't
• 1:27:23
  fought ever since. You know, they're saying like
• 1:27:26
  we've had like right littl little flare-up over.
• 1:27:30
  We haven't got off to a thick. Yeah, no, definitely not.
• 1:27:34
  And we're both like we're both super happy.
• 1:27:38
  And what's the name of your tattoo place?
• 1:27:41
  Stealing Studio stealing a car? Looked it up and I forgot.
• 1:27:45
  Yeah, steal. Any Studio?
• 1:27:48
  I want to ask you this, after all.
• 1:27:49
  This is happening because I mean Shawn.
• 1:27:53
  You've had like so many different things that you could
• 1:27:57
  have definitely just stayed in the ditch and go back to London.
• 1:28:00
  Wicked. But you can stay in the ditch
• 1:28:02
  but in your life growing up and all the different things that
• 1:28:07
  you had to figure out how to adapt to.
• 1:28:09
  What what do you think? Is your your biggest takeaway
• 1:28:13
  from living through all this that you could tell other people
• 1:28:16
  about? So You know, like actually
• 1:28:21
  specifically related to that I would say that my wife and I
• 1:28:28
  both have kind of shifted our platform on pretty much life in
• 1:28:36
  general. Okay.
• 1:28:39
  How we run our business? How we deal with our employees?
• 1:28:44
  We kind of like just everybody family and everything we kind of
• 1:28:49
  Like have shifted into this idea of how everything we want to do.
• 1:28:54
  We want to create opportunity for other people.
• 1:28:57
  Yeah. To have a springboard which
• 1:29:00
  fills you up. Yeah.
• 1:29:03
  And so like you know, in the tattoo industry for like a long
• 1:29:09
  time, it's always been kind of like, hey man, you don't bring
• 1:29:13
  you don't bring, you know people, and you know what I
• 1:29:17
  mean? Like, you have to kind of earn
• 1:29:18
  that Shit. And, you know, it's kind of
• 1:29:22
  been, like, taboo to kind of show The Craft of other people.
• 1:29:29
  But, you know, we kind of realized that the the way things
• 1:29:34
  are now and like the The opportunity that we have to
• 1:29:42
  create abundance for other people is like real for us.
• 1:29:47
  You know what I mean? Like the ability to do that.
• 1:29:50
  Yeah. So you know, like the thing and
• 1:29:55
  I guess it's kind of the same thing.
• 1:29:57
  Like what you're doing with this podcast is I don't know about
• 1:30:02
  for everybody but I know. For a lot of people.
• 1:30:10
  They need to hear like it's not just people who are on the
• 1:30:16
  outside, who need to be able to relate to people who have been
• 1:30:19
  through the process that we've been through.
• 1:30:22
  But I think even more importantly people who are still
• 1:30:25
  in that shit need to hear that there's light at the end of the
• 1:30:30
  tunnel and all it is, is choices, you know what I mean?
• 1:30:33
  Like an accepting, the help that is available and I think Shawn,
• 1:30:39
  that's it, I was Open. You're getting to that because I
• 1:30:41
  think that's your life. You you had choices and
• 1:30:44
  sometimes the choices weren't good.
• 1:30:47
  But it appoint. You somehow found something deep
• 1:30:51
  in your soul and you found the right choice and now you're
• 1:30:54
  living it. And then, what a world of
• 1:30:57
  difference. It is for you.
• 1:30:58
  Yeah. Because you, you're an
• 1:30:59
  intelligent guy. You mean you figured out the
• 1:31:02
  world a living in prison and you figured out how I'm going to
• 1:31:04
  take a chance on doing tattoo and he became really good at it.
• 1:31:07
  You got out and you got, you know, hit between the the eyes
• 1:31:10
  on people giving you nose on everything and you didn't give
• 1:31:13
  up and you finally, even though you kept going back and forth,
• 1:31:17
  you found it. Yeah, you gotta get, you can't
• 1:31:19
  give up give up and you didn't you at times felt like it, you
• 1:31:24
  came close. Hell you could have died at Home
• 1:31:26
  Depot, but you know, somehow some way you found it and, you
• 1:31:32
  know, it's so we're at the end of this thing here.
• 1:31:35
  And I'm thinking it took you a while, but it was always in you,
• 1:31:39
  it was Just putting it all together because you had bits
• 1:31:43
  and pieces all the way along. You just didn't have it where it
• 1:31:46
  all plugged in and then something happened.
• 1:31:48
  When you hit that rock rock. Bottom that said, okay here in
• 1:31:51
  Robert came and you had was a Phillip, Phil Phil.
• 1:31:56
  Yeah. And then those two things click
• 1:31:57
  free at the moment that you needed the most.
• 1:31:59
  And like you said, you didn't even know that you have been
• 1:32:03
  holding all that done and now you're helping people and now
• 1:32:06
  yeah, you're paying it forward with people and showing them,
• 1:32:09
  you know? An opportunity to get to the
• 1:32:11
  next step and that's what it's all about.
• 1:32:13
  Yeah, it's cool stuff. Sean, really cool.
• 1:32:17
  I really appreciate you stopping by here and sharing this story
• 1:32:21
  because I think for a lot of people this is a familiar story.
• 1:32:26
  That has all kinds of different chapters to it, that you can
• 1:32:29
  almost fit yourself into a lot of the different chapters that
• 1:32:32
  you've lived. People are always fearful of,
• 1:32:35
  you know, how do I get out? How do I, you know, step out and
• 1:32:38
  you've done that, you know, you and you're so honest about it,
• 1:32:41
  too. I mean, he talking about the
• 1:32:43
  paralysis lot of people have browsers.
• 1:32:44
  They don't really realize you're in the routine.
• 1:32:47
  The bad routine that they're in, but man, what a story.
• 1:32:52
  You need to write a book. Yeah, you do.
• 1:32:54
  I mean, it's got all the The elements to it.
• 1:32:58
  Okay, well speaking of book, that's a transition right there.
• 1:33:01
  I wrote a book and I'm your success.
• 1:33:04
  It's loyalty, betrayal live behind bars.
• 1:33:07
  Adapting, finally Breaking Free. Check it out and get it on
• 1:33:09
  Amazon Barnes & Noble. Everybody loved.
• 1:33:12
  You guys subscribe and you can follow the show.
• 1:33:15
  On Apple on Spotify, just got on Amazon music, it's kind of fun.
• 1:33:20
  You can actually, if you got an Alexa, you can say Alexa Play
• 1:33:23
  Nightmares success in and out and it'll play.
• 1:33:25
  As I thought I was cool this weekend.
• 1:33:27
  So, yeah, Amazon music, new Odyssey.
• 1:33:29
  If you want to reach out to me, please leave me a review on
• 1:33:33
  Apple Spotify. You got to go to the three lines
• 1:33:36
  there. And it'll, it'll drop down.
• 1:33:38
  You get a. Go scroll down where it says
• 1:33:41
  write a review. Love those.
• 1:33:42
  It helps to show. If you want to leave me a
• 1:33:44
  message broadcast e.com as I always used to say in my
• 1:33:50
  e-mails, back to the world. When I was at Leavenworth, stay
• 1:33:53
  strong and I'll do the same, John Medina.
• 1:33:56
  No, thank you man. Right on, thank you.
• 1:33:58
  Appreciate it. I'm Uxie, says, send it out.
• 1:34:01
  Thanks folks.