Latest / Barnyard Language / What to (Actually) Expect the First Year! w/ Sarah Zastrow and Kristen Kelderman (and a surprise guest!)

Transcript

What to (Actually) Expect the First Year! w/ Sarah Zastrow and Kristen Kelderman (and a surprise guest!) · Barnyard Language

• 0:14
  Caite: Welcome to Barnyard Language.
• 0:15
  We are Katie and Arlene, an Iowa sheep farmer and an Ontario dairy
• 0:19
  farmer with six kids, two husbands, and a whole lot of chaos between us.
• 0:23
  So kick off your boots, reheat your coffee, and join us for some
• 0:26
  Barnyard Language, honest talk about running farms and raising
• 0:29
  Arlene: families.
• 0:30
  In case your kids haven't already learned all the swears from being in the barn,
• 0:33
  it might be a good idea to put on some headphones or turn down the volume.
• 0:37
  While many of our guests are professionals, they
• 0:39
  aren't your professionals.
• 0:40
  If you need personalized advice,
• 0:41
  Caite: consult your And maybe we'll make this a two part episode
• 0:44
  since it's three hours long.
• 0:47
  Yeah, maybe.
• 0:48
  Or maybe not.
• 0:49
  Maybe we'll just invite people to get a beer and get some supper and have a chat.
• 0:53
  Arlene: Yeah, they don't have to listen to it all at once.
• 0:55
  Caite: Raising babies and electrocuting
• 0:57
  Arlene: raccoons.
• 0:58
  Language, and for only the second time in history, Katie and I are actually
• 1:01
  in the same place, and we have a guest.
• 1:03
  It's the third time in history, Arlene.
• 1:05
  Okay, well, second time recording.
• 1:07
  In recording history, yeah.
• 1:08
  Third time in the, in our life.
• 1:11
  And we're back in the place where we kind of met for the first time.
• 1:14
  So we're in Madison at Dairy Expo, and we have a guest with us today.
• 1:18
  The famous Dairy Carrie, Carrie Mess, is joining
• 1:21
  Carrie: us today, too.
• 1:22
  I'm not sure if it's famous or infamous.
• 1:24
  Well,
• 1:25
  Arlene: yeah.
• 1:26
  Potato patata.
• 1:27
  Potato patata.
• 1:28
  Carrie: That's right.
• 1:28
  I mean,
• 1:28
  Arlene: I'm cool with either.
• 1:29
  Whatever.
• 1:30
  So Carrie was one of our, our very first guests, I think, other than each other.
• 1:34
  And was Katie's mentor when the podcast idea got started.
• 1:38
  So, uh, it happened.
• 1:40
  You mentored us right into existence.
• 1:42
  I'm sorry.
• 1:44
  Hopefully the people listening are happy about it.
• 1:46
  Carrie: No, I really love the community.
• 1:48
  That you guys have built through this podcast, you're really filling
• 1:51
  a niche that, um, was needed.
• 1:54
  Um, on the dairy side, we have the Dairy Girl Network that kind of does
• 1:58
  some of the same kind of thing of how we tie as women in the industry, um,
• 2:04
  all the roles we're responsible for.
• 2:07
  But you guys have taken, you know, some of that idea and made it not
• 2:11
  just dairy specific and, and really Connected with a lot of cool people.
• 2:16
  I love what you guys are talking about.
• 2:17
  Good
• 2:18
  Arlene: job.
• 2:19
  Yay!
• 2:19
  Yeah, we're enjoying it too.
• 2:21
  And there is something about parenting as a separate facet of what we do, right?
• 2:27
  Because for so many, for so many of us, the farm becomes central
• 2:32
  to our role, but then raising kids and farming at the same time is,
• 2:36
  is not an easy job, as we all know.
• 2:39
  Carrie: I always think it's funny when people think that, like, moms
• 2:43
  who are farmers are stay at home moms.
• 2:48
  And some of them are.
• 2:48
  And some of them are.
• 2:50
  I am not.
• 2:51
  Um, like, am I a work with kids mom?
• 2:54
  Is that?
• 2:56
  Arlene: Yeah, working with your children.
• 2:59
  Like, working two jobs at the same time.
• 3:02
  It's perfect.
• 3:02
  Carrie: Everybody loves it.
• 3:04
  Never goes wrong.
• 3:05
  But that's a lot of the listeners.
• 3:09
  You know, I said women earlier, but that's not true.
• 3:11
  You have people of all genders.
• 3:14
  Um, as part of the community, and that's why it's so important, because
• 3:17
  we gotta talk about this shit.
• 3:18
  Yeah.
• 3:19
  So everybody knows it's
• 3:20
  Arlene: hard for all of us.
• 3:21
  Yeah, that's right.
• 3:22
  And when your kids are on the job site with you, or are in daycare,
• 3:25
  or wherever they happen to be.
• 3:27
  Right.
• 3:27
  When the work is happening, and we know that the work doesn't end
• 3:30
  even at the end of a daycare day.
• 3:32
  Even if you've got your kids in care, then you're still juggling all the things.
• 3:36
  All the things, all the time.
• 3:37
  That a 24 hour day job can sometimes bring with it.
• 3:40
  Caite: I think two farm kids are different.
• 3:49
  Um, I think with that comes.
• 3:51
  I don't want to say an expectation of some of the behavior that we see from
• 3:55
  our kids, but there are things that are, um, snuck by my kids that might
• 4:04
  be more hammered down with town kids.
• 4:07
  But.
• 4:08
  You know, in case anyone missed Carrie's kid peeing.
• 4:12
  I mean, he got off the bus before he started peeing, I think.
• 4:14
  Carrie: So that was good.
• 4:14
  Yeah, he got off the bus and made it like four steps off the side of
• 4:18
  the road before he dropped her out.
• 4:19
  And had an incredible arc.
• 4:21
  That was really quite impressive.
• 4:23
  Arlene: Um,
• 4:24
  Carrie: but, I see.
• 4:25
  We live on a quiet country road, but his bus pulled off and he started peeing.
• 4:30
  Suddenly there was traffic, like all these cars coming by.
• 4:33
  Plus the
• 4:34
  Arlene: whole side of the bus, I'm guessing.
• 4:35
  Well, no, that bus
• 4:36
  Carrie: went by.
• 4:36
  They were going the other way?
• 4:37
  They went, but then the lakeside Lutheran bus came past.
• 4:40
  The church school bus came past.
• 4:42
  And they got the full view.
• 4:44
  Um, yeah.
• 4:47
  Yeah.
• 4:48
  I mean, I'm glad he made it off the bus.
• 4:51
  Clearly he had to go.
• 4:52
  That's an accomplishment in itself.
• 4:53
  But I haven't, maybe, done a very good job about, um, furthering,
• 4:59
  like, the modesty piece.
• 5:01
  So, Ben was born, and he has a birthmark that covers, like, half of his body.
• 5:05
  So, when he was born, and we were figuring everything out, the one thing
• 5:08
  I said was, like, okay, body positivity.
• 5:11
  We're leaning in on that, but we've maybe done a little too good of a job.
• 5:15
  Ben has no shame, at
• 5:17
  Arlene: all, about anything on his body.
• 5:21
  Carrie: And, um, doesn't, does not care.
• 5:25
  Does not care, at all.
• 5:26
  Arlene: It'll come around eventually.
• 5:27
  How old is he?
• 5:28
  Five,
• 5:28
  Carrie: but I don't think it's coming.
• 5:30
  I really don't.
• 5:31
  You've got time.
• 5:33
  That one.
• 5:33
  Um, not, not, not
• 5:37
  Arlene: kid mooning, mooning people outside the, the, uh, the bus.
• 5:42
  Sarah: If we're
• 5:42
  Kristen: lucky only
• 5:43
  Carrie: that, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 5:45
  So it'll be fine.
• 5:47
  Arlene: Yeah.
• 5:47
  Can't wait for that call.
• 5:51
  So given the fact that we are in Wisconsin means that I left the
• 5:54
  farm again, which is a wild thing.
• 5:57
  And.
• 5:58
  And I know that a lot of people, especially in the ag forums,
• 6:03
  talk about, you know, like never being able to leave the farm.
• 6:05
  And I think that even the fact that we can leave and I have some both like Not
• 6:13
  guilt personally, but guilt about the fact that we have the help to be able to do it.
• 6:17
  So I just want to say that out loud, that I know that not everyone
• 6:21
  gets the opportunity to get away.
• 6:23
  But you know, like, if there are times when you can, you know,
• 6:27
  Carrie: that guilt for a second though?
• 6:29
  Yeah.
• 6:29
  It's not just guilt, it's also fear of being judged.
• 6:33
  Yeah, that's true.
• 6:34
  Oh, must be nice.
• 6:34
  Must be nice.
• 6:35
  Yeah, you could leave.
• 6:36
  Must be nice.
• 6:38
  And then I say the same thing when I see other people doing
• 6:40
  things that I want to do.
• 6:41
  Must be nice.
• 6:42
  Arlene: Yeah, or even within industries, right?
• 6:44
  Like, oh, the crop farmers.
• 6:45
  Yeah, they get to go.
• 6:46
  What were they
• 6:47
  Carrie: doing this winter
• 6:48
  Arlene: when it was 20 below?
• 6:48
  Yeah, in January when all their water bowls are frozen and they,
• 6:52
  yeah, they get to go on vacation.
• 6:54
  But yeah, I mean, sure.
• 6:56
  Must be nice.
• 6:56
  It is.
• 6:57
  Sarah: And it is nice.
• 6:58
  But we should be happy for
• 6:59
  Arlene: people that they have that opportunity, right?
• 7:01
  We're in a place right now where we have older kids and we have good
• 7:04
  health and we know that we haven't always been in that place and not
• 7:08
  everyone can afford it or not in a, in a physical location where there is,
• 7:13
  you know, there isn't good employment, you know, like we, we are lucky that
• 7:17
  we've got people that we can depend on.
• 7:19
  And my father in law is still healthy enough to be able
• 7:22
  to keep an eye on things.
• 7:24
  Yeah, that's right.
• 7:25
  Feed calves and look out for sick cows, you know, that kind of stuff.
• 7:28
  Carrie: Thank you.
• 7:28
  Yeah, we have, you know, we farm with my in laws, but my mother in law's retired
• 7:33
  after her farm accident, and my father in law's still out there, so, you know, he's
• 7:37
  there, some days he's wrecking more things than, than fixing, but, yeah, it's a body
• 7:43
  that, you know, we know will at least Yes.
• 7:48
  And we have some really good help and we're only 30 minutes from the expo
• 7:51
  grounds here so it's really easy for us to buzz in on this but for Pat
• 7:55
  and I we've both realized that it's really important for our relationship
• 7:58
  to take one night away, like.
• 8:02
  Every six months, if we can, like twice a year, if we can get it, just one night
• 8:07
  Arlene: away from just the two of us.
• 8:09
  It's been so important for our marriage.
• 8:10
  Well, when one night, two days, like when you're with your kids and your
• 8:14
  in laws and your everybody all the time, it feels like a long time.
• 8:19
  If you can get away, we, yeah, sometimes, you know, Spring and fall we do try and
• 8:23
  often it's like it looks like it's gonna rain for the next two days Do you want
• 8:26
  to go somewhere and I mean obviously it's you know, like not ideal weather, but it
• 8:29
  doesn't matter like you can Yeah, if you can get away for a little bit of time.
• 8:33
  It doesn't mean a lot
• 8:34
  Carrie: One of the things I've we've noticed is like we have to leave leave
• 8:39
  Because even though we don't live on the farm our farm in our house are separate
• 8:43
  What we find if we're not at the farm doing stuff there and we're just at
• 8:48
  home and like trying to relax at home we can't Because we see all the things
• 8:51
  that we haven't had time to do at home, and it doesn't work, and we have to
• 8:57
  Sarah: be gone.
• 8:58
  Yeah,
• 8:59
  Arlene: that removal from your workplace and your home is kind of critical
• 9:03
  for actually being able to fully...
• 9:06
  Let your guard
• 9:06
  Carrie: down.
• 9:06
  And you know that 2k8 was working your day job from home too, like,
• 9:11
  Arlene: where's the line?
• 9:11
  Yeah, the line exists.
• 9:13
  The computer's right over there, and you can just walk
• 9:15
  over and put in another hour.
• 9:17
  Shut the door.
• 9:18
  Yeah, my desk is in
• 9:19
  Carrie: my bedroom.
• 9:21
  I can't, I can't lay in bed without seeing the computer on, and yeah.
• 9:26
  I know,
• 9:27
  Caite: though, we went away for a couple nights a few weeks ago because
• 9:30
  Jim won his concert two weeks ago, and it was amazing just to be Must
• 9:33
  Carrie: be nice.
• 9:35
  Arlene: Must be nice.
• 9:37
  I hope it was nice.
• 9:38
  It was nice.
• 9:38
  No, I'm telling you about all of that.
• 9:40
  No,
• 9:42
  Caite: no.
• 9:42
  The concert, everything.
• 9:43
  It was amazing just to not have anything we should be doing.
• 9:47
  Like, the only thing that was expected of us was to eat.
• 9:52
  And show up for a concert and show up for a plane.
• 9:55
  Check.
• 9:56
  That was it.
• 9:57
  And it was so, like, it's really uncomfortable when you
• 10:01
  do leave because you're like, What am I supposed to be doing?
• 10:03
  You're doing, right.
• 10:04
  Where's my calendar?
• 10:05
  What's on my schedule?
• 10:05
  What's next?
• 10:06
  What's happening in ten minutes?
• 10:07
  And you're like, Nothing?
• 10:09
  Right.
• 10:10
  Arlene: Nothing.
• 10:10
  Yeah, whatever I feel like doing.
• 10:12
  Or, or I could do nothing.
• 10:13
  Right.
• 10:14
  What do
• 10:14
  Caite: you mean I could just take a nap?
• 10:16
  Yeah.
• 10:16
  And I can actually take a nap without anybody climbing on
• 10:19
  top of me and saying, Mommy!
• 10:21
  Arlene: Yeah.
• 10:21
  Open my granola bar.
• 10:24
  Carrie: Are your thumbs broken?
• 10:25
  Yeah, clearly.
• 10:27
  A lot of the times when we've been able to get away, like I was speaking and
• 10:30
  so Pat was able to like come with me.
• 10:33
  So I still didn't even fully have that, like, total disconnect where
• 10:36
  I didn't have to do that, but it was still totally worth it.
• 10:39
  Just to not, not be in our zip code.
• 10:43
  I think any way you can hack it, get some time away from the farm, we have to.
• 10:51
  Arlene: Keep ourselves sane.
• 10:52
  Yeah, and the getting away from the farm and the kids combo is extra stressful.
• 10:57
  I mean, I know that.
• 10:59
  You know when you've got little people if you're breastfeeding or you
• 11:02
  know, like if they're not sleeping through the night It's not like you
• 11:04
  can just be like, hey grandma, you like to be up 24 hours a day, right?
• 11:07
  So I know that yeah, it's not always that easy But once you're in that place
• 11:11
  Carrie: to be able to do it And a lot of times in farm families too,
• 11:14
  like that older generation isn't able
• 11:18
  Arlene: Yeah.
• 11:18
  Or they might be in the barn so that you can leave the barn part, right?
• 11:22
  Right.
• 11:22
  Carrie: Or they're just, you know, the age where they're not,
• 11:25
  they can't keep up with little
• 11:26
  Caite: kids.
• 11:26
  Yeah, that's right.
• 11:27
  It is nice, since our kids are getting a little older, that they can go over
• 11:31
  to Grandma and Grandpa's a little bit easier, because they don't have to be...
• 11:37
  Adults frequently do not think my children have to be picked up and carried nearly
• 11:41
  as often as my children still think they need to be picked up and carried.
• 11:44
  But they're a little more self sufficient than they were a few years ago.
• 11:48
  But, yeah, it's definitely, they're a lot.
• 11:53
  That's for sure.
• 11:54
  We
• 11:54
  Carrie: have a dinner we're going to tonight as part of Expo.
• 11:57
  And so the kids are going to get off the bus at Grandma and
• 12:00
  Grandpa's and go to bed there.
• 12:03
  We'll pick them up.
• 12:04
  I don't know.
• 12:05
  Tonight, when we get home, or in the morning, um, but we were packing the stuff
• 12:09
  up, like, we're gonna stay overnight, and like, we'd bother putting the
• 12:13
  toothbrushes and toothpaste in there, because Grandma's not going to open
• 12:16
  Caite: the brush
• 12:21
  tonight.
• 12:21
  Arlene: Grandma's not gonna remember, and then if they get
• 12:23
  taken out of the bag, then you're just not gonna have toothbrushes at
• 12:25
  Carrie: home tomorrow.
• 12:26
  Exactly, so, you know, sometimes you just gotta give up.
• 12:30
  Yeah, that's right.
• 12:30
  Arlene: And let it happen.
• 12:31
  Let some things go.
• 12:34
  Well, I think we are going to wrap up and go look at some more pretty cows.
• 12:37
  Yes, and maybe do
• 12:39
  Caite: some, we've got some elite, elite cow areas to sneak into.
• 12:43
  So if you don't hear from us, we need bail money.
• 12:46
  We're in Madison.
• 12:48
  We got busted for sneaking into private areas.
• 12:52
  Super expensive cow areas.
• 12:53
  Carrie: Yeah, they're not private.
• 12:55
  No, if you have anyone on drink
• 12:56
  Arlene: down there.
• 12:56
  If you pretend you want to buy embryos.
• 12:58
  Yeah,
• 12:59
  Caite: I could look real interested.
• 13:01
  Arlene: Yes.
• 13:01
  Yeah.
• 13:03
  So thank you very much, Carrie, for joining us again
• 13:05
  and for the grilled cheese.
• 13:06
  Yeah,
• 13:07
  Carrie: you guys have done a great job.
• 13:08
  I'm really proud of what you've built.
• 13:10
  Caite: You guys don't even know what a big deal Carrie is.
• 13:12
  She got like fast passes for grilled cheese.
• 13:14
  I didn't even know that was a thing.
• 13:16
  It's really helpful when
• 13:16
  Carrie: your neighbor works for the company that
• 13:19
  Arlene: That's the lineup for the grilled cheese here is very impressive.
• 13:22
  It is good.
• 13:25
  We are going to ask you to go back and listen to episodes with Sarah Zastrow.
• 13:31
  So she actually got to come on twice.
• 13:33
  So she is maybe our most popular guest other than Katie and myself.
• 13:37
  She's been here a couple of times and she is joining us from Michigan.
• 13:40
  So there was an episode early on with her while she was pregnant with
• 13:44
  her first baby and just announced.
• 13:46
  And then a second one where we threw her a podcast.
• 13:49
  baby shower.
• 13:49
  So if you want all the parenting advice before you have a baby,
• 13:53
  that's the episode to listen to.
• 13:54
  And then we also have...
• 13:55
  Arlene,
• 13:55
  Caite: I'm going to interrupt for our listeners because this is not a video
• 13:59
  medium, as Arlene keeps reminding me.
• 14:01
  Sarah is currently hiding in a laundry room closet from her baby.
• 14:06
  Um, I think there's a lot of dress shirts behind her and it's very quiet
• 14:10
  and she said it's cool and nice in there.
• 14:12
  Arlene: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:12
  So the baby doesn't know that she's still in there.
• 14:14
  Sarah.
• 14:15
  Yeah, that's right.
• 14:18
  And we're also talking to Kristen Kelderman, who announced her pregnancy
• 14:22
  to us on her podcast episode early on in 2021, I believe, or maybe
• 14:28
  winter of 21, 2021, 2022 is when we talked to both of these ladies.
• 14:32
  And she was actually pregnant with twins.
• 14:34
  So it's her first pregnancy, but she got double the money.
• 14:38
  So she has Two new babies and Sarah has one.
• 14:42
  And so this episode, we're actually talking to both of them about how life
• 14:47
  in the first year with baby has gone.
• 14:48
  And we have this interesting perspective of being able to go back and listen
• 14:52
  to what they thought it was going to be like before they had their babies.
• 14:55
  And then the reality of what it was actually like.
• 14:57
  So I'm going to start with Sarah, with our usual first question.
• 15:01
  Sarah, can you remind our listeners and us what you're growing?
• 15:06
  Sarah: Yes.
• 15:06
  Okay.
• 15:06
  First off, thank you for having me back for the third time.
• 15:10
  I'm glad to be the three peat here.
• 15:13
  Um, so I am growing a baby, a toddler, a one year old, which is insane.
• 15:18
  Um, and then we grow corn and soybeans in Central Michigan and then we
• 15:22
  Kristen: have kind of what I consider
• 15:24
  Sarah: our hobby farm division as well.
• 15:26
  So we've got some chickens and turkeys and ducks and produce, you know, garden
• 15:31
  vegetables and that sort of thing.
• 15:32
  So, um, we're having a lot of fun right now.
• 15:35
  I'm picking strawberries, uh, every day, which has been, uh, really
• 15:39
  interesting with a one year old on my hip, but, uh, yeah, we're, we're
• 15:44
  having a lot of fun, so that's good.
• 15:46
  Growing chaos is, um, the primary crop around here.
• 15:49
  Arlene: Yes, that's right.
• 15:50
  And for the people, as Katie said, it's an audio medium.
• 15:53
  Can you tell us what's on your shirt today?
• 15:55
  Because you dressed on theme for us.
• 15:58
  Sarah: I did.
• 15:58
  I was going to dress up and look nice for you guys, but I have a shirt
• 16:01
  that said, good moms say bad words.
• 16:03
  And I was like, eh, it's on brand.
• 16:05
  So I'm wearing it.
• 16:07
  Arlene: That is perfect.
• 16:08
  Kristen, can you remind us and our listeners what you're growing?
• 16:15
  Kristen: Hello everyone, yes, good morning.
• 16:17
  Um, thanks again to Arlene and Katie for having me back again.
• 16:21
  Um, I feel, uh, so blessed to be here and to join, uh, the, uh,
• 16:26
  the most frequent podcaster here.
• 16:29
  Um, and, uh, yeah, so my life right now, I am growing.
• 16:33
  Uh, twin toddlers, which as I can attest to Sarah, the chaos is real and
• 16:39
  it is rampant in our house right now.
• 16:41
  Um, but in both a frustrating and an incredibly beautiful way, I'm
• 16:46
  trying to see both sides of it.
• 16:49
  Um, outside of being a mom, I am growing my career.
• 16:52
  I have started a new position, uh, that I'm really excited about, um, working
• 16:58
  in farm mental health here in Canada.
• 17:00
  for a new national organization.
• 17:02
  And, um, and that for me is just like really filling my cup these days, uh,
• 17:07
  in kind of taking a step back from mom life and getting back to who I would
• 17:12
  say, like, is just me, Kristen, myself, um, and taking myself back to, uh,
• 17:18
  to pre kid life, which is coming with a little, you know, some challenges.
• 17:23
  I'm now trying to balance and, and do mom life and career life at the same time.
• 17:29
  Um, but in my, you know, quote unquote spare time, um, I am also
• 17:34
  enjoying this summer getting back out into the garden and really.
• 17:37
  getting my hands dirty and growing my vegetable garden, doing
• 17:41
  some landscaping around here.
• 17:42
  So quite literally growing some plants and, and growing some, you know, gardening
• 17:46
  for me is kind of a form of therapy.
• 17:49
  So growing my therapy, uh, through my garden as well.
• 17:52
  Arlene: It's nice to have you both back.
• 17:55
  I can just, uh, picture the, the toys and, uh, debris that's probably around
• 18:00
  your house at this stage of life.
• 18:01
  I don't have little people in the house anymore, but I definitely remember.
• 18:05
  Caite: I've been doing a lot of cleaning out my Google Photos and coming across
• 18:09
  memories of the kids at different ages and found one the other day of the girl child.
• 18:14
  I'll probably use...
• 18:15
  14 months old she had dumped an entire box of Cheerios out
• 18:19
  on the floor my daughter And
• 18:20
  Sarah: I play this super fun game where she as she eats she throws half of
• 18:25
  everything on the floor You know now that she's done with it right so I get her
• 18:30
  out of her Uh, high chair and then we race to see if I can sweep it up faster
• 18:36
  or if she can scarf it all up faster off of the floor because for some reason
• 18:41
  food mixed with dog hair tastes so much better and she was full in the high chair
• 18:45
  but now she's starving suddenly as she gets to the floor and I'm like, no, stop
• 18:51
  Arlene: eating stuff off the floor.
• 19:01
  Sarah: That's for sure.
• 19:05
  Arlene: Yeah.
• 19:07
  Kristen: Yeah.
• 19:11
  Arlene: It's so much better down there.
• 19:15
  Sarah: That's right.
• 19:16
  Kristen: Different flavor profile, I think,
• 19:20
  Caite: right?
• 19:20
  It tastes more like the land.
• 19:22
  If you eat it off the floor, it tastes more authentic.
• 19:25
  And it's higher in fiber once it's got dog hair in it.
• 19:27
  There you go.
• 19:29
  Sarah: Um, it was a
• 19:34
  So I ended up with an emergency c section.
• 19:37
  I was six days overdue and they said we're going to induce you on Thursday night.
• 19:44
  So, Thursday morning I ended up having a c section, having an emergency c
• 19:48
  section and I just, um, didn't really...
• 19:52
  I didn't foresee that, you know, because I had everything planned and that was not in
• 19:56
  my plan, you know, so, um, anyway, that, I ended up having a super long labor,
• 20:03
  prodromal labor for like 11 days, which, um, they used to call that false labor.
• 20:08
  But now they say, oh, it's not false.
• 20:10
  It is labor.
• 20:11
  It's just kind of very slow labor.
• 20:14
  So, um, I was in prodromal labor for 11 days, which means I didn't
• 20:19
  sleep very well for 11 days.
• 20:22
  And so by the time labor came around, I was just absolutely exhausted.
• 20:26
  So I was in labor for about 40 hours, like active labor for about 40 hours,
• 20:31
  pushed for four and a half, and then I was like, We're done here, folks.
• 20:36
  We are done.
• 20:37
  Caught me open and get this shit over with.
• 20:39
  Like, I have never been so exhausted in my life.
• 20:43
  So, um, that was, uh, you know, a surprise.
• 20:47
  I had, for a long time she was breached, so I had sort of emotionally
• 20:51
  prepared for what would happen if I had to have a c section.
• 20:54
  But then she flipped, so I was like, Okay, check that off the list.
• 20:57
  We're, we're golden.
• 20:58
  We're in the home stretch.
• 20:59
  stretch here, boys.
• 21:00
  And, um, we were not, in fact, in the home stretch.
• 21:04
  So, uh, anyway, that was, um, like, not as difficult of a recovery as
• 21:11
  I had expected, uh, physically.
• 21:13
  I was more sore from pushing for so long, and I, like, my eyes were
• 21:17
  bloodshot, my cheek, like, the hollows of my cheeks were bruised.
• 21:21
  It was really...
• 21:22
  tough on my body.
• 21:24
  Um, but that was more from the pushing than the actual C section.
• 21:27
  My C section was great, really easy.
• 21:30
  The C section recovery was way easier than 11 days of labor, you know.
• 21:35
  So, um, anyway, ended up, um, you know, doing fine with recovery
• 21:40
  physically, um, but emotionally, uh, was really just rocked.
• 21:47
  So, I, um, I had always thought of like birth trauma as like, oh, people, you
• 21:53
  know, people can like die on the table and like people can, you know, hemorrhage
• 21:57
  and lose tons of blood and all these like really terrible things that could happen.
• 22:01
  Um, but I never thought of like, Oh, your, your body will be emotionally
• 22:06
  wrecked for a good solid week and a half.
• 22:10
  Um, good luck, you know, so anyway, I kind of, um, that was a little
• 22:15
  bit tough for me and then I just had some wild, wild hormones and I, it
• 22:20
  ended kind of in the two week period.
• 22:22
  So they're like, Oh no, it's, you know, it's fine.
• 22:24
  It ended, but just some really scary thoughts and really scary,
• 22:29
  like things going through my head.
• 22:30
  And, um, my husband was in the field, so we ended up having tons and tons
• 22:34
  of family over, which was really great, but also I definitely like.
• 22:39
  Put on a front when people were here, and then as soon as people left, it
• 22:43
  was a completely different story.
• 22:45
  So, I think that it was good that I was sort of prepared for that.
• 22:49
  Um, and I had watched some videos and things like that about, like, just
• 22:53
  postpartum hormones, and like, you will have some really scary thoughts, and you
• 22:57
  will think about some really horrible things, and, you know, like, I just
• 23:00
  remember, we're gonna really bring down the mood here, but it's all about reality.
• 23:04
  So, I'm gonna say it anyway.
• 23:06
  Somebody had told me that, um, like, they...
• 23:10
  So they felt like they were like grieving their old life.
• 23:12
  They felt like they, um, they kind of felt like they were babysitting
• 23:17
  and like, when's this kid's parents going to come pick, pick it up?
• 23:20
  Cause I'm tired of this, you know?
• 23:21
  And I definitely felt that.
• 23:23
  And I remember thinking like, If something happened, I don't even think I would
• 23:28
  care, you know, and I was so tired and so exhausted and I like fell asleep
• 23:32
  with the baby kind of like in the crook of my arm on the couch and I was kind
• 23:36
  of breastfeeding her and like she had fallen asleep and I had fallen asleep
• 23:40
  and my husband came out and he was like, Sarah, like, wake up, you know, like, the
• 23:44
  baby's not really in a great position, like, this is really scaring me, and I
• 23:47
  remember thinking, like, I don't even care if she dies, like, I would grieve
• 23:51
  that loss, and I would, um, I would be over it, and I would, and then, and then
• 23:56
  I had that thought, and I was like, oh, my, something is wrong, like, this is
• 23:59
  really not, not good, um, you know, and so, it ended up, like, I ended up doing
• 24:05
  a ton of journaling through that time, and kind of journaling everything that
• 24:08
  had happened with my birth, and these crazy thoughts I was having, and, um,
• 24:11
  And, and it ended up kind of fading and then after that it was kind of fine.
• 24:16
  So, um, that ended like in two weeks after my birth.
• 24:20
  Um, and then things got a little bit easier and she
• 24:22
  was sleeping better at night.
• 24:24
  So, um, yeah, but that first, that first couple of weeks was extremely challenging.
• 24:30
  Um, and just really scary.
• 24:33
  To, like, think about what your body's been through, what your hormones are
• 24:36
  putting you through, that you're getting to know this new alien that's suddenly,
• 24:41
  apparently, your responsibility, even though it doesn't feel like that.
• 24:44
  Um, and I'm so glad, Katie, you had said in our first, or the last,
• 24:49
  uh, podcast interview, like, you're not, you might not feel this way.
• 24:53
  Emotional attachment right away, and I did not at all.
• 24:58
  And that in itself scared me also, because I was like, what
• 25:01
  is wrong with me and this thing?
• 25:03
  And there was no bonding.
• 25:05
  And we had talked, I wanted this like golden hour so bad.
• 25:09
  And I was, Drugged that entire golden hour and I don't know what the baby was
• 25:13
  doing and I don't know what I was doing and I Woke up and she was breastfeeding
• 25:17
  and they were like, how does it feel?
• 25:18
  And I was like, I can't feel anything Like I have no idea, you know, so it
• 25:24
  was a complete Uh, completely different from what I had envisioned, and I
• 25:29
  think just getting, um, acquainted with, like, the reality of it took,
• 25:35
  took me a couple of weeks, you know.
• 25:37
  And then after that, it was a lot better, and I started to get out of the house
• 25:41
  a little bit, and started to exercise again, and I was doing journaling,
• 25:44
  and, um, it got better quickly, but that first, those first couple of weeks
• 25:48
  was whiplash, you know, really, really A lot different than I had expected.
• 26:11
  Caite: I know, Sarah, I was thinking a lot about the Baby Blues this last week as we
• 26:15
  were preparing for the show and thinking about, that I feel like we tell women that
• 26:20
  They'll experience the baby blues, but it'll be hard because you'll love your
• 26:23
  baby so much and everything will just be so beautiful that it'll you Yeah, I,
• 26:27
  Sarah: first of all blues is very understated.
• 26:30
  That was not the blues.
• 26:31
  That was like, happens to somebody depth, I dunno, anyone
• 26:33
  Caite: who's
• 26:34
  Sarah: experienced it, something I don't, it, it felt like an Biss, that's for sure.
• 26:38
  Kristen: Um,
• 26:38
  Sarah: and I don't, in theory I loved my baby, but it was not an
• 26:44
  overwhelming sense of love and adoration.
• 26:47
  At first, you know?
• 26:49
  And so I think that kind of caught me off guard as well.
• 26:52
  Like I said, I'm really glad that you and a few other people had
• 26:55
  warned me of that because then I knew, like, oh, this could happen.
• 26:59
  This might be, you know, what happens.
• 27:01
  And so at least then I knew, like, I'm not completely alone, you know what I mean?
• 27:06
  And so I think that I talk about this not to, like, scare new moms
• 27:11
  or anything, but, like, that might happen to you, too, and that's okay,
• 27:14
  and it will pass, and you will grow to love your baby, and now I love her
• 27:19
  more than anything else in the world.
• 27:21
  Um, but it...
• 27:22
  It was just so unexpected.
• 27:24
  And no, there was no newborn bliss, no overwhelming sense of
• 27:30
  this is the best day of my life, nothing remotely close to that.
• 27:51
  Caite: I feel like for me, that first couple of weeks was a lot like, like if
• 27:56
  you see a mother raccoon with her cubs, like if you tried to touch one of her
• 27:59
  babies, she'd rip your fucking face off.
• 28:01
  Yeah.
• 28:02
  But I wouldn't say that she's like, Oh, my precious angel babies, you know?
• 28:06
  Yes, exactly.
• 28:07
  There's not that emotional connection to them, where she's
• 28:11
  like, They're the light of my life.
• 28:13
  You know, she's just like, I'll fucking kill you if you touch them.
• 28:16
  I don't like them that much, but I will kill you if you touch them.
• 28:20
  Like, it's so weird that you guys are all muted and I can see you laughing, but
• 28:24
  it's just like, dead silence on my end.
• 28:27
  Okay, cool.
• 28:29
  Anyway, yes, we're all nodding
• 28:31
  Arlene: along.
• 28:31
  Caite: Yes.
• 28:32
  Yeah, it's it's a weird
• 28:34
  Arlene: feeling.
• 28:34
  Yeah, it's hard to do a four way interview.
• 28:37
  We're trying not to overlap each other.
• 28:39
  But yeah, thank you Sarah for being so honest about that time
• 28:42
  because like you said, I mean some people do have that initial bond.
• 28:48
  They maybe have the labor they expected but so many of us don't and even if
• 28:52
  it's what In theory, what you expect, the experience is still something
• 28:58
  you cannot really prepare for there.
• 29:00
  There's nothing, there's nothing anybody can really say to tell you
• 29:04
  what it's gonna be like for you, because it's unique for every person.
• 29:09
  It's unique for every baby.
• 29:10
  So yeah, every time it's gonna be completely different and
• 29:13
  we really can't anticipate it.
• 29:15
  And it's good to be honest about how it is for different people so that all of those
• 29:19
  scenarios are at least things that you're.
• 29:23
  prepared for or or know that could happen.
• 29:25
  So, Kristen, do you want to talk a little bit about your labor and first few
• 29:33
  weeks, your initial days of motherhood?
• 29:36
  Which probably seems like a long way away now, but it was only a year
• 29:39
  Kristen: ago.
• 29:41
  Oh, it does.
• 29:42
  You know, it feels like they say like parents, like time is like a
• 29:46
  vortex when you become a parent.
• 29:48
  It's both the longest, most arduous thing and also just like in a
• 29:52
  blink of an eye like passes by you.
• 29:54
  I completely feel that sentiment so real in my life today.
• 29:59
  Um, and yeah, just to start off, I just want to echo, uh, Sarah.
• 30:03
  I feel so many of those same feelings.
• 30:06
  Um, you know, motherhood.
• 30:08
  In those early days for me, um, was, felt so isolating a lot too, um, because you
• 30:14
  are just so encapsulated, um, and probably biologically we're forced to just kind of
• 30:19
  put those blinders on and focus on keeping these little humans alive, um, but yeah,
• 30:25
  I, I echo so many of, of what you shared.
• 30:29
  For me, having, uh, going into having twins, I was very well prepared
• 30:35
  with my birthing team and my OB that there was a high likelihood
• 30:40
  that I would have a c section.
• 30:41
  And so, I was very, I kind of went into it very open minded.
• 30:46
  I said, you know what, I, I had, you know, kind of a rough idea, a rough plan,
• 30:50
  but also, trying my best to just kind of go with the flow at the same time,
• 30:56
  uh, which for a type A personality, um, was a little bit difficult for me.
• 31:01
  Um, we, uh, we also knew that there was a really real, um, uh, risk of
• 31:08
  that the twins would come early too.
• 31:09
  So twins generally, um, are, are, can, can come quite early on.
• 31:15
  So, leading up to, my due date was supposed to be the beginning of June,
• 31:19
  Um, but already, I would say like, late April, May, I was already starting to kind
• 31:26
  of be like, Okay, when's the day coming?
• 31:27
  When's the day coming?
• 31:28
  When's the day coming?
• 31:29
  Just kind of like, um, kind of starting to feel some of that anxiety.
• 31:34
  And, um, cause I was really uncomfortable.
• 31:36
  Like, for me, pregnancy was not a cakewalk.
• 31:40
  I don't think that I was truly ready for all of the aches and the pains
• 31:46
  and everything that came with that.
• 31:48
  Um, and I would consider myself a rather, like, fit person, active person.
• 31:52
  I tried to stay, um, you know, throughout my pregnancy moving around and stuff
• 31:56
  like that, but I certainly was not what I expected I would be doing.
• 31:59
  Um, I was very much less active than I wanted to be, but that month, um,
• 32:05
  ahead of time, I was really starting to, uh, anticipate, um, you know, just
• 32:10
  wanting it to be over with, honestly, and not the fact that I wanted to
• 32:15
  meet my babies that I was so excited.
• 32:16
  I was like, I just want this to be done with.
• 32:19
  Um, so for us, I went into, uh, one of my OB appointments, and with the twins,
• 32:25
  um, they monitor the differences in the weights between the two of them.
• 32:30
  Um, and it became pretty apparent pretty quickly that, uh, we had
• 32:35
  gone over the allotted discrepancy.
• 32:38
  So one baby, um, appeared to be much bigger than the other and so there's
• 32:41
  a risk there and, um, the way that my OB explained it was that it's better
• 32:46
  for babies to be out of mom's womb at this point and survive, um, in the NICU
• 32:52
  than to stay with you and risk that.
• 32:54
  So I was induced, um, at 36 weeks, so about a month early, um, and quite
• 33:01
  honestly, The worst part of my whole labor was the induction part was that
• 33:07
  night before so I went into the hospital Um to be induced and then they sent me
• 33:11
  home For that night and said come back in around between six and seven the
• 33:16
  next morning and so that was the worst sleep I think of my entire life that
• 33:22
  i've ever had and Slept on the couch had a heating pad couldn't get comfortable
• 33:28
  turn the tv on like It was just hours of just feeling like really kind of
• 33:33
  uncomfortable and crampy and whatnot.
• 33:36
  Uh, we went into the um, into the hospital the next day and quite honestly, um,
• 33:43
  I was a textbook, um, birthing story.
• 33:46
  Um, I had Very little, um, very little pre labor.
• 33:51
  I did have an epidural, so once that kind of kicked in, I was like, smooth sailing.
• 33:56
  It's like, okay, I can feel this, I'm feeling good.
• 34:00
  Um, and almost, you know, I, I am very fortunate.
• 34:05
  I know that there are so many stories and birth traumas that are out there.
• 34:09
  Um, and I was, I was, Fully expecting worst case scenario.
• 34:13
  That's kind of what I went in with and um, the twins they Arrived very well.
• 34:20
  We delivered in the or and um, it was almost kind of like This weird calmness
• 34:26
  because again, they prepared me that like, you know Baby one comes and if
• 34:29
  baby two doesn't come or there's some complications like it can get hectic
• 34:34
  and crazy Really fast and there's lots of people and there's lots of stuff.
• 34:38
  So I was very much Psychologically and emotionally prepared
• 34:41
  for that and going into it.
• 34:44
  I was like, okay like, you know, um Ready to experience that.
• 34:49
  And then it was just this like weird calmness and I just remember sitting
• 34:55
  there with my husband and the team there and we were just laughing.
• 35:00
  Like we were literally laughing in the, like baby one had come.
• 35:04
  And so, uh, my daughter, Eleanor, she was born first and, um, I was
• 35:10
  expecting like, okay, baby two, like, you know, pretty quickly after that.
• 35:14
  And it was 45 minutes between the two of them being born and it was, again,
• 35:20
  kind of this, like, weird, calm, chatty, like, um, the doctor was making some
• 35:26
  jokes and the, um, the anesthetist had come in to check on us and it was
• 35:31
  just this, yeah, this kind of, um, almost, like, out of body experience.
• 35:37
  And, uh, thankfully my son was then born, uh, Knox, uh, 45 minutes later.
• 35:43
  And, um, because they were preemie babies, um, I got to hold both of them for a
• 35:49
  very short time period, uh, and then they were both brought into the NICU.
• 35:53
  Um, afterwards, my recovery was pretty dicey for a little bit there, um,
• 35:57
  I went through some pretty, like, kind of almost like shock symptoms,
• 36:01
  I would say, um, in terms of, like, Just like I was like vomiting.
• 36:06
  I was like Really hot and cold like kind of hypertensive like just this really
• 36:12
  weird feeling and that was something that really quite shocked me because
• 36:15
  I did Not expect like afterwards.
• 36:18
  I'm like, okay now I go to like my room and I just kind of relax and you know
• 36:22
  Wait for them to bring the babies to me And I have no sense of time in terms
• 36:27
  of what happened there at the hospital.
• 36:30
  Um, but eventually I was brought to go and see my babies and going
• 36:35
  into the NICU, that was something that I was not prepared for either.
• 36:39
  Um, again, I had, I had held both of my babies, but then.
• 36:44
  Going in there, being wheeled in on a wheelchair, um, in kind of,
• 36:48
  like Sarah said, this kind of like weird, fuzzy, drugged up state.
• 36:52
  And seeing these two tiny, little, like, shriveled potatoes sitting in these,
• 36:57
  like, incubation boxes with all of these, you know, lights and beeping and whatnot
• 37:04
  going on, it was a little surreal.
• 37:06
  And I was like, Those are my babies and similar kind of similar feeling like
• 37:12
  that connection was that bonding like, you know, from that point until, you
• 37:17
  know, bringing them home and all of that.
• 37:19
  It just felt very bizarre to me, um, that, okay, this is my reality.
• 37:24
  Now this is what life is like.
• 37:26
  And, um, we were very fortunate that, um, our NICU stay, we were there for three
• 37:32
  days and then got to bring them home.
• 37:34
  Um, which quite honestly, I didn't want to bring them home.
• 37:39
  I was like, you're safe here.
• 37:40
  I know you're good.
• 37:41
  I have all of these nurses helping and, you know, feeding and changing and.
• 37:46
  And, you know, all the censors and stuff are telling me that you're, you're good.
• 37:50
  Um, when they, when they told us, like, okay, you can go home now.
• 37:55
  It was almost like this really intense, like, anxiety, like, holy shit.
• 38:00
  I don't think I want to do this.
• 38:02
  And, um, but hey, you just kind of have to, have to, they kick you out, right?
• 38:07
  You, um, you're not allowed an infinite stay.
• 38:10
  And so we got home and I was fortunate.
• 38:13
  My husband.
• 38:15
  Were
• 38:15
  Arlene: you in there the whole time too, Kristen?
• 38:17
  No.
• 38:17
  Did you stay in or did you get
• 38:19
  Sarah: discharged and then were coming
• 38:20
  Kristen: back in?
• 38:20
  The babies discharged.
• 38:21
  Yeah.
• 38:21
  Yeah, so I was discharged.
• 38:23
  Um, and so that first, the first night I stayed in the hospital.
• 38:28
  The second night we got to come home and then go back in.
• 38:31
  And then the third night we stayed and like did our test run with the babies.
• 38:36
  Um, Where we had to get up and feed them, uh, throughout the
• 38:39
  night and they were, like, out of their little, um, incubation boxes.
• 38:44
  And, uh, and then the next day, yeah, it was, uh, it was real life.
• 38:48
  So, that, uh, Good luck.
• 38:51
  Exactly, exactly.
• 38:53
  I, I was very fortunate.
• 38:54
  Our medical team was incredible and amazing and I just wanted
• 38:57
  to, like, package them up and bring them home with me.
• 39:00
  Um, the, uh, The recovery period for me, I was pretty thankful that, um, it
• 39:07
  was fairly, I think, standard textbook.
• 39:09
  Yeah, it was, you know, there were times when I didn't feel great and
• 39:13
  whatnot, but, um, myself, it was more the emotional, psychological
• 39:19
  side of like, okay, I'm a mom now.
• 39:22
  And like, still reminding myself that, hey, these are, these are my babies.
• 39:26
  And, and similar to Sarah, like, that connection that, um, That
• 39:32
  maternal ness, I didn't feel kick in.
• 39:36
  And it kind of started to yeah, kind of sit in my head and be like, I
• 39:41
  don't, I don't know if I like this.
• 39:42
  I don't, I don't know if I wanna do this.
• 39:43
  Can I, can I go back ? Can I, can I return?
• 39:47
  Like I don't, I'm not, I'm not really, uh, you know, in it all.
• 39:52
  And it was a really.
• 39:55
  It was a really difficult summer for me.
• 39:57
  Um, so the twins were born in may and throughout that whole summer like it
• 40:00
  was really um that grief of my previous life, I didn't anticipate that coming
• 40:08
  so Like, becoming so difficult for me.
• 40:13
  Um, because I thought, and you know, the advice and what people told me
• 40:17
  beforehand was like, Oh yeah, like, you just fit baby into your life.
• 40:20
  So you can go out and you can do all these things and you can, you know, you
• 40:24
  can garden and you can go out with your friends and you can just, you know, cart
• 40:27
  baby along with you wherever you go.
• 40:29
  Go to the grocery store.
• 40:30
  I was like, yeah, friggin right.
• 40:31
  I'm not taking two newborn twins to the grocery store.
• 40:33
  Like, as simple as a task as that may have seemed pre baby.
• 40:39
  It was monumentous, um, afterwards, and to the fact where it like, it caused me
• 40:45
  so much anxiety, and the, I just, I just wanted so desperately to be able to do
• 40:51
  some of those things again, um, that it was really difficult for me, um, that
• 40:58
  summer, especially because summer, you know, is such a difficult time for me.
• 41:01
  Um, yeah.
• 41:02
  is the time that I live for.
• 41:03
  I, I just, I love it so much and I want to be outside.
• 41:06
  And even just, there were days when the only outside time I got was, you
• 41:11
  know, standing on our front porch.
• 41:12
  And like, that was just, it was so hard to, to kind of feel like myself again.
• 41:20
  Um, and I remember I was very fortunate to have the support of our family come, um,
• 41:27
  and help look after the twins and my mom was, uh, uh, still to this day comes once
• 41:32
  a week to, uh, to help out with the twins and, um, those were the days when I would
• 41:37
  just kind of like pile up everything.
• 41:39
  Okay, I want to do this, this, this, you know, run errands, do all of that stuff.
• 41:42
  And there was one, um, one day that I was like, okay, I'm going to go to the grocery
• 41:47
  store and like, you know, Spend some time there and do all that I need and I was
• 41:51
  driving home And by our place there is a golf course and um, not that I'm a big
• 41:57
  golfer or anything Um, but it's you know, nice to do every once in a while hit some
• 42:02
  balls and uh and drink some beers but we I was driving by and I just saw these people
• 42:08
  out on the course and like the sense of just like That is so far away from
• 42:14
  my reality right now And that all those people out there are enjoying their time.
• 42:19
  They're in the sunshine.
• 42:20
  They're having fun.
• 42:21
  They're with their friends They're socializing like I just felt
• 42:25
  such a pit in my stomach that I am stuck being a mom right now.
• 42:31
  Um, and that I really had a hard time coming around to that.
• 42:35
  So it was, yeah, the
• 42:37
  Arlene: idea that someone would have like two or three hours of
• 42:41
  spare time to do a hobby like that in, in that stage of life, right?
• 42:47
  Like just seems so, yeah.
• 42:49
  Like you said, so far from removed from your reality.
• 42:52
  Like, like how do you just golf?
• 42:55
  Like, how do you How would you even like the logistics of that?
• 42:59
  Like, yeah, like if going to the grocery store feels like a vacation,
• 43:03
  something like playing golf is just like, yeah, completely out
• 43:07
  of what you can even think about.
• 43:11
  Kristen: Absolutely.
• 43:12
  Absolutely.
• 43:13
  And feeling like I felt like.
• 43:15
  Like, I've never been a jealous person, but I could feel that kind of like
• 43:19
  negative jealousy coming at me like, Oh, how dare you go to the golf course?
• 43:23
  Like, I, like, I want to go and do that.
• 43:25
  And like, that was just, yeah, just really a feeling and an emotion
• 43:29
  that I'd never experienced before and something that I really hadn't
• 43:32
  anticipated to come along in that, that motherhood journey that's supposed to
• 43:37
  be beautiful and amazing and bonding.
• 43:40
  Um, which is, as we all know, total bullshit.
• 43:44
  Caite: I feel like something...
• 43:45
  It's
• 43:45
  Arlene: so hard to think about.
• 43:47
  Sorry, go.
• 43:50
  Caite: Something that gave me the jealousy so bad, and I can only imagine with twins
• 43:54
  because it's twice as much, is how much I took for granted things like going to
• 44:00
  the library and using two hands to pick out books, or not having to wrestle a
• 44:04
  stroller out of the back of the car, or God forbid when they get too big for
• 44:08
  the bucket seat, and then you have to take the kid out of the car seat to take
• 44:11
  them somewhere, and I mean you've got...
• 44:13
  You guys are both nodding because you know exactly what I'm talking about.
• 44:16
  You see people just waltzing into Walmart like it's nothing and just
• 44:20
  like, looking at their shopping list without their baby actually eating it,
• 44:25
  which has literally happened to me.
• 44:27
  My child ate an entire sheet of paper one time while we were grocery shopping.
• 44:32
  You know, and just that irrational rage that people could just be out with
• 44:39
  their Having slept, having showered, you know, having socks that match,
• 44:46
  whatever, just out in public using both hands and nobody screaming at them.
• 44:51
  And nobody judging them for whether their kid has socks.
• 44:55
  Wow.
• 44:55
  Well, I'm going to go back to therapy because
• 45:01
  this
• 45:04
  Arlene: is obviously just opening a whole can of worms.
• 45:05
  Yikes.
• 45:05
  I think we don't talk enough about and I don't know.
• 45:07
  Yeah, I just was going to say I don't know that we talk enough about and yet
• 45:10
  I at times don't know how to talk about what you were just saying, Kristen, about
• 45:14
  the, the grief of life you had before.
• 45:19
  Because sometimes, now when I go to a baby shower, like, I want to warn the person,
• 45:26
  but I don't want to be that person either, to be like, soak it up, because you're
• 45:31
  never going to be this person again.
• 45:33
  But how do you tell someone?
• 45:35
  That you're going to turn into a new person and that
• 45:39
  everything is going to change.
• 45:41
  You're not, like you said, you're not just having a baby and maybe some babies
• 45:45
  fit into your life or that's what we tell ourselves, but I didn't have those babies.
• 45:49
  And even the babies that do fit into your life, you're still changing everything
• 45:53
  to, to make it look like they fit, right?
• 45:56
  And you're, yeah, you're not the same person anymore.
• 45:59
  And, and it's.
• 46:00
  It's okay to feel sad that you're not that person anymore.
• 46:03
  It's okay to grieve that loss and to realize that you aren't going back.
• 46:08
  It's kind of the same, you know, like you move on from high school or
• 46:11
  you move to a new place and you, you grieve the loss of those other things.
• 46:16
  But it's, it's hard to talk about when it's your kid because then,
• 46:19
  you know, like we always talk about, Katie, then it sounds like you're
• 46:22
  saying, I don't love my child because I'm sad that something has changed.
• 46:26
  But those two things can be true at the same time.
• 46:30
  Caite: Well, and I, I think, too, for myself, I've changed so massively
• 46:35
  and in so many amazingly good ways.
• 46:38
  I am so much happier with the person I am now.
• 46:42
  But the growing pains of getting here, and that it doesn't, like the baby
• 46:49
  blues or whatever, it's not like it takes three hours and then everything
• 46:52
  is great, you know, like, it takes time.
• 46:55
  Right,
• 46:55
  Arlene: it was hard for a few minutes, but now I'm all good.
• 46:57
  Caite: Yeah.
• 46:58
  And no matter how good the end result is, it was still painful to get here, and
• 47:04
  that's, you know, and I, I feel like for me too, it was kind of like when you get
• 47:09
  married and you stop, you know, like you spend however many of your years looking
• 47:13
  for potential partners or, you know, Oh, that boy's cute, whatever, you know,
• 47:18
  because you're like 13 and then, and then you get married and suddenly you're never
• 47:22
  supposed to look at another human again.
• 47:24
  And it's like, even if you don't want another person.
• 47:29
  You've been doing it for so long, and I feel like having a baby is
• 47:32
  a lot the looking was kind of fun.
• 47:34
  Yeah, you're supposed to just drop everything and be
• 47:37
  like, I am only a mom now.
• 47:40
  That is it.
• 47:41
  And if you can't just, like, subsume your entire existence into six
• 47:47
  or, like, I guess twelve pounds of twins, then it's because you're
• 47:52
  a bad person who is never happy.
• 47:54
  You know, it's because you're ungrateful.
• 47:58
  And not because you've spent 30 years being a person, just by yourself.
• 48:04
  Arlene: Yeah, I
• 48:04
  Sarah: really do need to go into therapy.
• 48:05
  I
• 48:10
  Kristen: completely can appreciate those growing pains, Katie, that you mentioned.
• 48:14
  Um, identity, I think, is something that we don't talk about in motherhood.
• 48:19
  And, um, And in life in general, like who we are and what we were
• 48:24
  just so busy constantly just kind of trying to get to the next thing,
• 48:28
  trying to get to the next thing.
• 48:29
  That we don't take a step back and say, well, how am I feeling
• 48:32
  and how am I doing and, and what is this doing to me right now?
• 48:36
  To pause and to say, yeah, maybe I do need to go back to therapy because this was,
• 48:42
  Not the experience that I thought it was going to be and that it has impacted You
• 48:46
  know me as a human being so drastically And it I guess it doesn't even need to
• 48:52
  be drastically either like everybody has their own struggles within um within that
• 48:57
  and how they cope with that and identity for me has just been such a a theme
• 49:03
  throughout my life, I guess, um, that this whole motherhood, like, I almost resisted
• 49:10
  it for a lot and Just kind of like not wanting to admit it that like, yeah, I'm
• 49:19
  a mom now But also still wanting to crave that community too because I felt so
• 49:24
  isolated And not that the people around me or you know, my family and my friends,
• 49:32
  you know They were all so very supportive and wanting to you know, see you thrive
• 49:37
  and to help out but Not knowing how to ask for what I needed in that time, too.
• 49:44
  Um, because I was just in such a haze and in such a, a sleep deprived state, and,
• 49:52
  and hormones, and that that feeling of just kind of feeling out of control, but
• 49:59
  still having to function, um, to keep, you know, your, your family going and
• 50:05
  these, you know, you're, you're self fed and all of those like essential things.
• 50:11
  Um, And the smallest little thing can seem so monumentous to
• 50:16
  do, like taking the trash out.
• 50:18
  Like, I can remember just, you know, we live in a suburban neighborhood, so our
• 50:23
  driveway is like maybe 30 feet long.
• 50:25
  But it was like, oh my god, I have to get the garbage out today.
• 50:28
  Like, how am I going to do that?
• 50:29
  And just feeling so...
• 50:31
  Overwhelmed in a sense, and, and not, yeah, not really recognizing
• 50:37
  that it's not about the garbage.
• 50:38
  It's about everything that's happening in my life right now.
• 50:42
  Um, and, and really understanding that what we.
• 50:48
  How, how to communicate in those instances, um, you're almost
• 50:52
  relearning it again, right?
• 50:54
  Because now you're doing it, um, as a, as a mom, um, with all of these
• 51:00
  hormones coursing through your body and also, yeah, this identity shift
• 51:04
  and you're in a very fragile state because sleep deprivation is no joke,
• 51:12
  like that can do some really wonky, fucked up things to your brain that you.
• 51:23
  Sarah: I thought I would be, this sounds ridiculous, I
• 51:26
  thought I would be better at.
• 51:30
  Delegating things that needed to be done to other people and
• 51:35
  communicating what I needed.
• 51:37
  And it used to not be difficult for me to delegate, to be like,
• 51:42
  Hey, can you do these dishes?
• 51:43
  Can you, um, do this?
• 51:45
  Can you pick me up some things from the grocery store?
• 51:47
  No, I didn't think twice about it.
• 51:49
  And then all of a sudden it feels like now that I, Can't do things for myself
• 51:57
  instead of it being a quick favor.
• 51:59
  It's a burden, you know?
• 52:02
  And so I didn't expect that things that used to be easy would be so difficult.
• 52:09
  Not like including things like getting the dishes done and the laundry done
• 52:13
  and taking out the trash and those sorts of things, but also like.
• 52:17
  Setting boundaries and communicating and saying, Hey, I really need whatever, three
• 52:22
  hours to go golfing or whatever it is.
• 52:25
  I, I used to be good at those things and suddenly I'm not.
• 52:29
  And I'm like, afraid to even utter those words, you know?
• 52:33
  And so, I don't know if that's hormones or the way that motherhood changes the
• 52:38
  weight of things or what that is, but I did not foresee Me having an issue with
• 52:46
  those things like I was listening back to our old episode and I had talked about how
• 52:50
  I was like already planning on delegating making this person do this and this person
• 52:55
  do this and I didn't do any of that like I
• 52:58
  Arlene: Had them
• 52:58
  Sarah: hold the baby and I did all that shit, you know, like it's so funny
• 53:02
  to me how Like like just how that was and I think now it's getting better
• 53:08
  and I'm finding my voice a little bit Again, but it's just so funny,
• 53:13
  like, I did not foresee that happening
• 53:16
  Arlene: at all.
• 53:16
  I wonder if some of that is that feeling of, and I think that maybe we're kind of
• 53:19
  similar in this way, that the feeling of asking for help from someone when you have
• 53:23
  no idea when you'd be able to reciprocate.
• 53:26
  It's easier for me to delegate and to ask someone to do something for
• 53:30
  me when I think, well, when they have a problem, I can drop off muffins or
• 53:34
  I can pick up their kid or whatever.
• 53:36
  But when you're in that mode of just surviving yourself, and you're like,
• 53:39
  I'm asking somebody to do something for me, and there's no way I could, if they
• 53:42
  asked me the same question, I'd have to say no, because I've got nothing left.
• 53:46
  Like, I'm completely depleted.
• 53:48
  So I wonder if that's a little bit of those, the feeling of
• 53:51
  the, the early stages when.
• 53:53
  you've just got nothing to give back.
• 53:55
  So then you, then you do feel like you're a burden because you're
• 53:58
  like, well, I, I can't contribute.
• 53:59
  I can't, can't do
• 54:02
  Sarah: it.
• 54:04
  I think that might be part of it.
• 54:06
  Yeah, because there, there's no reciprocation for those
• 54:09
  first several months.
• 54:10
  And even now, like, it's kind of shitty reciprocation, and it's
• 54:15
  probably going to be half assed.
• 54:16
  So sorry about it, you know, but I think that that's a really good point because,
• 54:22
  um, Yeah, I, I don't, I don't know.
• 54:24
  I think that's a really good point.
• 54:27
  Arlene: One thing I didn't include in our list of, sorry, Katie, I just
• 54:31
  wanted to talk about something else.
• 54:33
  I was wondering, we hadn't, haven't, I didn't put it in our list of questions,
• 54:37
  but one thing that, that ends up taking up a lot of our time in those first few
• 54:41
  months is feeding, which is something we didn't talk about, and there's a lot of...
• 54:45
  We can, as mothers, put a lot of stress on ourselves about a cold point for a lot
• 54:49
  of, uh, a lot of medical and, um, society.
• 54:53
  Ladies both willing to talk about how your babies ate in the first
• 54:57
  year, or the first six months, which seems to be a critical pressure.
• 55:03
  Sarah, do you want to go
• 55:04
  Sarah: first?
• 55:08
  Yeah, I can go first.
• 55:09
  I ended up breastfeeding, um, Scout for the whole first year and she had, um,
• 55:14
  some dairy allergies and then, um, we had really bad shortages in our area.
• 55:20
  Um, and I am not, I didn't think that I would breastfeed for the whole
• 55:24
  first year, but it ended up being, so it was like 44 for a can of, um,
• 55:31
  formula and it was the little can.
• 55:34
  So that was like a day, it was like about a day.
• 55:38
  A little over a day and a half for 44 and I'm like, I cannot afford this
• 55:45
  and she didn't tolerate it super well.
• 55:48
  And so I was like, well, I guess I'll just keep breastfeeding, you know, um,
• 55:52
  but it was a, it was not an easy journey.
• 55:55
  I was a just enough for, I constantly was having to power pump.
• 55:59
  I would usually like power pump twice a week just to make sure that my supply
• 56:03
  was like staying up enough and it seemed like it would, I would get it.
• 56:07
  To where it was good and then it would dip and then I would get it back up
• 56:10
  and dip and get it back up and dip and so it was a constant constant battle.
• 56:15
  Um, and I had mastitis and clogs and she, um, at four months decided
• 56:20
  that toys were more fun than eating.
• 56:22
  And so I pretty much, um, pumped during the day.
• 56:26
  She would eat at night if it was dark or if it was if it was
• 56:30
  just her and I at home alone.
• 56:31
  So, Sometimes she would eat, um, but I have a really slow let down.
• 56:35
  So then she would get really frustrated.
• 56:37
  And so, um, we ended up breastfeeding and struggled through it.
• 56:40
  And there was a lot of pumping and dishes involved.
• 56:43
  Um, but it was, I didn't envision that for myself, you know?
• 56:48
  And so, um, yeah, that's, uh, I'm really glad to be weaned.
• 56:54
  So really, really.
• 56:58
  Arlene: Yeah, that sounds like a lot of pressure.
• 57:00
  What about you, Kristen, with two babies to
• 57:02
  Kristen: feed?
• 57:03
  Yeah, so I, I decided, um, pre delivery that I was going
• 57:07
  to formula feed the twins.
• 57:08
  Um, I had done a lot of research and talked to a lot of other moms about
• 57:12
  their experiences and whatnot, and certainly I, I kind of came at it from
• 57:18
  my own mental health standpoint, knowing my own, um, stress levels and whatnot.
• 57:23
  And I just, in my mind, I couldn't logistically understand how to feed two
• 57:29
  babies and survive at the same time.
• 57:32
  And certainly, I know there are women that do it, and that is absolutely incredible.
• 57:37
  I am in awe of them.
• 57:39
  Um, but for me, I chose to formula feed, uh, pre babies.
• 57:43
  Um, Would I have chosen the same thing knowing the struggles that
• 57:46
  we had through the last year?
• 57:47
  Um, probably not.
• 57:48
  Like Sarah said, um, we had extreme shortages in our area and it was so
• 57:56
  stressful because I just assumed, oh, you need formula, you go to
• 58:00
  the store, you get the formula, you feed the baby, whatever, done.
• 58:03
  And And
• 58:05
  Arlene: like we said, going to the store is already
• 58:07
  Kristen: That is so true.
• 58:09
  Exactly.
• 58:09
  Absolutely.
• 58:11
  And so We, we struggled.
• 58:14
  Um, we started off the twins, um, on the formula that they had at the hospital,
• 58:19
  um, which was a, like a pre mix stuff, so it was great, it was just like ready
• 58:22
  feed, um, which was fantastic, and so, um, they, we, as a recommendation from
• 58:29
  our, from the, from Public Health, uh, we fed that to them for two, two ish
• 58:33
  months, um, before we went to powdered formula, and that stuff is Friggin
• 58:38
  expensive like when you find it you we bought it and I can remember going
• 58:42
  to walmart over and over again and Talking about asking people for favors.
• 58:47
  My number one favor was if you see formula buy it.
• 58:50
  I will e transfer you immediately um, and so I had like all of my family, friends,
• 58:57
  scouring, looking out, um, on any store.
• 59:00
  My mom would go to multiple stores and ask, and then they started to put limits
• 59:05
  on, you know, how many you can take.
• 59:07
  And it didn't matter that I had two babies to feed.
• 59:10
  I was one, I was one parent, and so they would only let me take one, um, container,
• 59:16
  which would just, you know, be eaten up within, like, a matter of, Hours, if not
• 59:21
  a day, um, so that was extremely stressful and something that I never anticipated.
• 59:27
  I don't think any parents did, um, but thankfully we, we were able to still
• 59:32
  continue feeding the twins because, um, I, I didn't nurse at all, so my supply like
• 59:38
  very quickly, um, dried up, um, and so.
• 59:42
  I was like, well, what, how, like, I don't even have an option here.
• 59:46
  Um, so, on top of that, having two babies with two different needs,
• 59:51
  um, our daughter, she had some very significant reflux issues pretty early on.
• 59:57
  And being a first time mom, I had no idea.
• 59:59
  I knew babies spit up.
• 1:00:01
  I knew they were fussy.
• 1:00:02
  I knew they cried.
• 1:00:03
  Um, but something just seemed off with Ellie.
• 1:00:05
  Like, she was just not comfortable.
• 1:00:08
  Really, like, Feeding was a challenge for her and afterwards she was always
• 1:00:13
  just so just, yeah, frustrated it seemed.
• 1:00:17
  And, um, so through a series of trial and error and finally, you know, getting, um,
• 1:00:24
  getting to the doctor and talking to them about it, we tried all kinds of different
• 1:00:28
  formulas, uh, to see what fit well with her, her tummy and her reflux and whatnot
• 1:00:34
  and went to go and see a pediatrician.
• 1:00:36
  Thankfully, she wasn't, uh, she didn't have, um, what they would classify as
• 1:00:40
  a cow's milk protein allergy, but she just had a really sensitive stomach.
• 1:00:45
  And so, not only feeding formula to two babies, but feeding two different formulas
• 1:00:51
  to two babies, um, that was, again, a challenge that I didn't anticipate,
• 1:00:56
  and something that brought me so much anxiety, that, like, I would keep, like,
• 1:01:02
  Stock like we would have our stockpile of each formula and down to the day.
• 1:01:07
  I knew how much we had, um, and how much I needed to get.
• 1:01:11
  And so, you know, I tried not to get into that.
• 1:01:14
  Like, um, you know.
• 1:01:17
  fear buying and like stockpiling mode.
• 1:01:20
  But as a parent, when that's your only option to feed your infant,
• 1:01:23
  like you can't help but, but do that.
• 1:01:26
  So whenever we would find it, I, you know, I would try to get as much as I could.
• 1:01:31
  And so, yeah, that was our feeding journey.
• 1:01:33
  I am so thankful.
• 1:01:34
  They're on solid foods now and we are, um, way past that, but.
• 1:01:39
  Certainly, I feel for all the parents out there right now who, who do and are
• 1:01:44
  continuing to experience these shortages because you are literally have no control.
• 1:01:50
  Seems
• 1:01:50
  Arlene: like a basic, and it is, it's a basic need this.
• 1:01:55
  Yeah, it's been such a wild time for anyone who is, yeah, like you
• 1:01:59
  said, it seems this is something that our infants need to survive
• 1:02:04
  and that that was not available.
• 1:02:07
  When people needed it, it was such a, such a scary situation, and I don't
• 1:02:11
  think that there were so many people who, I mean, if you're not in it,
• 1:02:16
  you didn't have to think about it, or it wasn't even on the radar, right?
• 1:02:19
  Like, it, yeah, you didn't have someone in your life who was feeding, it was
• 1:02:22
  in the news once in a while, but if you weren't in the mom and baby groups on,
• 1:02:26
  you know, on social media, baby during that time, probably lots of people didn't
• 1:02:30
  even know it was an issue, but it was such a huge thing for so many people.
• 1:02:35
  Mm hmm.
• 1:02:36
  So, in both of your original episodes, we ended up talking
• 1:02:39
  about stress and mental health.
• 1:02:41
  So, Sarah, you talked a bit about the course of the past year, the
• 1:02:46
  first few weeks, but how do you feel like your mental health and your
• 1:02:50
  stress level has been kind of over?
• 1:02:52
  So,
• 1:02:52
  Sarah: overall, I think it's been pretty good.
• 1:02:54
  I have Um, a lot of help, you know, and so that helps too.
• 1:02:59
  Um, Scout goes to my mom's once a week and Zach's mom's once a week, so
• 1:03:03
  I have enough time to get some self care in and run my errands and do a
• 1:03:08
  few fun things and stuff like that.
• 1:03:10
  And I'm good about, like, carving out minutes during nap time and after
• 1:03:16
  bedtime and stuff like that to make sure that I'm like, um, doing the
• 1:03:20
  things I need to do to fill my cup.
• 1:03:23
  I'm a big person, like I need.
• 1:03:25
  some quiet time.
• 1:03:26
  I need some me time.
• 1:03:28
  And so just knowing that I have to prioritize that I think has helped.
• 1:03:33
  Um, and so also I went to therapy and that helped a ton to just
• 1:03:37
  like have somebody to talk to.
• 1:03:39
  And I feel like there's so much judgment in parenthood.
• 1:03:42
  Like, I don't, I just need to get this stuff off of my chest.
• 1:03:47
  I really can't have a friend or a family member being like, well, Why don't you
• 1:03:52
  just or why isn't this happening or whatever like I don't have time for
• 1:03:57
  that shit and also I can't tell somebody something and then like Fear that they're
• 1:04:04
  gonna bring it up again against me.
• 1:04:06
  You know what I mean?
• 1:04:06
  And so I was like, okay therapy it is which has been great and I've done
• 1:04:11
  therapy lots and lots and lots of times And so I just, I think I did it for like
• 1:04:15
  two months and it was great just to get some stuff off of my shoulders, off of
• 1:04:20
  my chest, and there's a ton of other stuff happening with family right now.
• 1:04:23
  And, um, so I think that that has helped tremendously.
• 1:04:28
  I'm just, mental health is always just a slow roll for me.
• 1:04:32
  Like, something I have to stay up on.
• 1:04:34
  It's something that has to be a priority.
• 1:04:38
  Um, or else.
• 1:04:39
  Things get out of control really quickly, both with depression and anxiety.
• 1:04:43
  And so I think that, um, I have after the first little bit.
• 1:04:48
  So, so the first two weeks were really hard and then things got pretty easy.
• 1:04:52
  And then the four months sleep regression wrecked my world.
• 1:04:57
  Um, and then that lasted for a long time in that.
• 1:05:00
  So at the four months sleep regression.
• 1:05:03
  was when I went back to work, which was a clusterfuck beyond imaginable.
• 1:05:08
  And then we went into the field.
• 1:05:10
  So then we were super busy and I was like, well, I can't really like, like
• 1:05:15
  I knew I needed to sleep train her.
• 1:05:17
  I knew that, that for, I wanted to do Ferber.
• 1:05:20
  I knew that she's a kid who needed that and not that everybody does.
• 1:05:24
  And I know there's lots of opinions on that and that's fantastic.
• 1:05:28
  I needed that and she needed that, but also how can you sleep train a kid when
• 1:05:32
  they're sleeping in a tractor three naps a day and bedtime isn't consistent?
• 1:05:37
  Wake time isn't consistent, you know, so I felt like I had to
• 1:05:40
  wait till after harvest was over.
• 1:05:42
  So I ended up sleep training or closer to six months, um, which was a saving grace.
• 1:05:48
  It was, oh my gosh, I, if you have a kid who's not a good sleeper.
• 1:05:53
  Ferber it up, baby.
• 1:05:54
  Like, it, it, it was a lifesaver for us.
• 1:05:57
  Literally a lifesaver.
• 1:05:59
  Um, and so I counted one day.
• 1:06:01
  I was, I, in one day, I spent seven and a half hours trying
• 1:06:05
  to get her to fall asleep.
• 1:06:07
  In one day.
• 1:06:09
  And I was like, This is why I'm crazy!
• 1:06:13
  Right?
• 1:06:13
  You know?
• 1:06:14
  Um, and so.
• 1:06:17
  Exactly.
• 1:06:18
  You can't, you can't.
• 1:06:19
  Oh, and you're working full time right now, you know, so, um, that was insane.
• 1:06:24
  And so, um, after so kind of the first couple of weeks were tough and
• 1:06:29
  then it got easier and then four to six months was rocky and I blocked
• 1:06:33
  most of that out of my memory.
• 1:06:34
  I don't remember a lot of it.
• 1:06:36
  I know that going back to work was really rough.
• 1:06:38
  I know the harvest was really rough.
• 1:06:40
  I know that I was waking up a lot and then Ferber came along and things
• 1:06:46
  have been smooth sailing since then.
• 1:06:48
  Not that she hasn't regressed or we haven't done little
• 1:06:51
  resets or things like that.
• 1:06:52
  But, um, that has.
• 1:06:54
  Sleep makes the world, world of difference.
• 1:06:59
  And when you have sleep, then other things fall into place, you know?
• 1:07:04
  And so, um, that has made, I think, the biggest difference for me.
• 1:07:07
  So, just knowing that I need to prioritize that and stuff has been really key.
• 1:07:11
  And my husband has a lot of health issues.
• 1:07:13
  So, part of it also is like, he can't really have not a lot of sleep either.
• 1:07:18
  You know what I mean?
• 1:07:19
  And so...
• 1:07:20
  Um, there's a tremendous amount of like, uh, like, like saying they
• 1:07:24
  like, why doesn't your husband get up
• 1:07:25
  Kristen: with them?
• 1:07:26
  Like,
• 1:07:27
  Sarah: I don't have time for that.
• 1:07:28
  He doesn't have time for that.
• 1:07:29
  That I'd still have to get up and pump, like
• 1:07:31
  Kristen: shut up.
• 1:07:32
  You know what I mean?
• 1:07:33
  Sarah: And not that he's not helpful and not that he not that men shouldn't
• 1:07:37
  get up at night with their babies, but in our situation, it just.
• 1:07:41
  That would have been way more difficult for you know, so anyway, I think that
• 1:07:46
  um overall we're doing good now We're we we hit our stride after six months And I
• 1:07:52
  also think that like there's something to be said when babies can reciprocate love
• 1:07:57
  You know what I mean and for so long.
• 1:07:59
  They're just like Sitting there like a bump on a log and then they can hug
• 1:08:03
  you and run up to you and say mama and like that Warms your heart there is
• 1:08:09
  there is something to be said for that in terms of like not only filling your
• 1:08:13
  cup But just like that human connection, you know, and so I feel like now that
• 1:08:18
  we're in that stage It's so much easier than it was in the first little bit.
• 1:08:23
  Yeah,
• 1:08:23
  Arlene: that all makes a lot of sense I know with the the dad Waking up with
• 1:08:28
  the babies, like I breastfed all of mine for the year and sometimes a little bit
• 1:08:32
  more and it was like, so if he gets up, then the baby screams harder because they
• 1:08:37
  just want to eat and I had to probably wake him up to go and say, could you
• 1:08:42
  go and see if you can get the baby?
• 1:08:47
  Kristen: Also, I'm going to have to
• 1:08:48
  Sarah: wake him up three or four times for him to actually get his ass out of bed.
• 1:08:52
  So then I'm going to be mad, he's going to be mad, the baby's mad, and
• 1:08:56
  now I have to pump and do dishes.
• 1:09:00
  And, yeah.
• 1:09:02
  Arlene: This is so helpful, yeah, for everyone.
• 1:09:07
  Caite: Well, and as with, as someone with two littles close in age, and I'm sure
• 1:09:11
  Kristen's in the same spot, that if one wakes up and then you have to wake your
• 1:09:15
  husband up three times, then the other kid is up, the dogs are up, the cats are
• 1:09:19
  up, neighbors five miles away are up.
• 1:09:22
  And then I'm pissed at my husband, and the baby, and myself.
• 1:09:27
  And the universe, and it, not being able to, yeah, everything, like it's easier,
• 1:09:33
  Arlene: and it's really easy to fall back asleep,
• 1:09:35
  Sarah: and after all, that's what I was just going
• 1:09:37
  Kristen: to say, and when I'm that mad,
• 1:09:39
  Sarah: falling back asleep is not really an option.
• 1:09:41
  Now I've got to fight with my
• 1:09:42
  Kristen: husband for an hour.
• 1:09:43
  I mean, it's just not worth it.
• 1:09:47
  Arlene: Even if he's gone back to sleep, I'm fighting in my head.
• 1:09:49
  Your field of.
• 1:09:51
  Education and expertise is also in mental health.
• 1:09:53
  Do you think that impacted you differently, kind of
• 1:09:57
  knowing what to expect?
• 1:09:58
  Yeah, now I'm googling
• 1:09:59
  Caite: divorce lawyers.
• 1:10:00
  Arlene: Yeah, yeah, that's right.
• 1:10:01
  Googling that.
• 1:10:04
  So, Kristen, are you willing to talk a little bit?
• 1:10:06
  I mean, I know you're, did that impact at all how you felt about your stress level
• 1:10:11
  and your mental health over the last year?
• 1:10:16
  Kristen: I would say yes and no.
• 1:10:17
  Um, and in a sense, my, my mental health journey postpartum,
• 1:10:22
  um, was really up and down.
• 1:10:24
  And, um, I certainly had some seasons and some time sprints
• 1:10:29
  that were easier than others.
• 1:10:30
  And so with, um, with me being, I was still, uh, trying to complete my
• 1:10:36
  master's, uh, when the twins arrived.
• 1:10:39
  So, What we had planned was that I would take a four month maternity leave.
• 1:10:44
  Um, and, uh, And, uh, focus on the kids for those four months.
• 1:10:49
  And then we were very thankful that, um, my husband's work has parental leave.
• 1:10:54
  And so he would take the following four months, I would finish up school, um, and
• 1:10:59
  then we would figure it out from there.
• 1:11:01
  Which did go to plan, um, in some ways and not in others.
• 1:11:06
  And so those first four months, um, of me, Uh, kind of being the primary
• 1:11:11
  parent, uh, during the day and my husband does work at home as well, which a
• 1:11:15
  lot of people are like, Oh, that must be so great and so nice, which it's
• 1:11:18
  great to have an extra set of hands, but also knowing that he has other,
• 1:11:22
  he's there, but he can't always help.
• 1:11:24
  Uh, he hears the screams, but he can't always grab a baby, uh, cause
• 1:11:28
  he's in a meeting or he's, you know, running to, uh, to do the next thing.
• 1:11:32
  And so, um, that was that those first four months, um, you
• 1:11:37
  know, it was just a lot of.
• 1:11:39
  Trying to unders like, to figure out motherhood on my own, and I really
• 1:11:47
  struggled with being that kind of self critical person and, you know, thinking
• 1:11:51
  about, like, well, why isn't this going the way that I think it should be going?
• 1:11:55
  And why are they doing this?
• 1:11:56
  And why?
• 1:11:56
  Like, I was always questioning, well, why is this happening?
• 1:11:59
  And why is this?
• 1:12:00
  And so many times people would be like, well, they're just a baby.
• 1:12:03
  That's what happens.
• 1:12:04
  And to me, that was not a good enough answer I needed to know.
• 1:12:09
  To know which now thinking about it.
• 1:12:11
  It's like well there that is the only answer really Um, but for me in that
• 1:12:16
  that mindset that I was in Um, it was just so all encompassing, well
• 1:12:21
  why aren't these sleeping and why are they crying and what is going on
• 1:12:24
  and why aren't they eating right now?
• 1:12:26
  And I always just had to like, you know, really, I had kind of this
• 1:12:31
  like tight feeling around like I need to control everything, um,
• 1:12:36
  because I want it to go this way.
• 1:12:37
  And we would hit a good day and it'd be like, oh, awesome!
• 1:12:40
  Finally we're hitting our stride.
• 1:12:41
  We're doing great.
• 1:12:42
  And then the next day would absolutely go to shit Like there was no question
• 1:12:48
  about it And I don't know if it was just like the cadence of our days or whatnot
• 1:12:52
  But mondays for us were like absolute shit shows I was just kind of like every
• 1:12:58
  monday and I came to a point where like I would almost like Feel that tension and
• 1:13:03
  anxiety leading up to a monday and being like, oh my god, this is horrible Like
• 1:13:07
  i'm i'm not working so I don't have that like work stress of uh of a monday But
• 1:13:11
  for some reason the kids were just like a nightmare that day and I was just like
• 1:13:16
  absolutely spent at the end of the day So we, you know, kind of, we get through the
• 1:13:21
  summer, we get to the fall and I'm like, okay, great, awesome, I'm going to get
• 1:13:25
  back to school, I'm going to, you know, focus on that, and Tony's going to be,
• 1:13:29
  you know, taking care of the kids, and that'll be awesome because I don't have to
• 1:13:32
  do any of that, and we start transitioning through the fall and it's just like, I
• 1:13:38
  had such a hard time letting go after being the primary parent, um, and And it
• 1:13:47
  kind of created a little bit of tension between us, I would say, um, because
• 1:13:51
  he Seeing it now from his perspective.
• 1:13:55
  He was like, well, why don't you trust me to take care of our kids?
• 1:13:57
  He's like I'm the dad like I have the time I can this is what I'm supposed to
• 1:14:02
  be doing And I was just kind of like well Have you you know when the if the I was
• 1:14:06
  in my office, you know doing stuff and I could hear the kids in In the house for
• 1:14:10
  instance, and I was just like I would come out and be like, oh, have you tried this?
• 1:14:13
  Or what about that or you know has have you changed their diaper?
• 1:14:16
  Have they had a poop today like blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and I
• 1:14:18
  would just like start like ranting and going off and he's just like He would
• 1:14:22
  look at it and be like, you, you know, like, I, I don't have the confidence
• 1:14:26
  in him as a parent and it wasn't that.
• 1:14:28
  It was like my own.
• 1:14:29
  I was like, why aren't these kids like, why aren't they acting how we, we, we
• 1:14:33
  think they should be acting and how, how I want them to be and controlling them.
• 1:14:38
  And so that was, um.
• 1:14:40
  That was right around, like, the fall, the four month mark, and so we certainly
• 1:14:44
  went through the hellish four, four month sleep regression too, and with
• 1:14:47
  two babies, like, oh my god, like, it was, we went right into sleep training.
• 1:14:52
  As soon as I felt like they were ready for it, we firboarded up, and it, also, Sarah,
• 1:14:57
  yeah, like, I can't, I don't think I would be, um, a functioning human without that.
• 1:15:03
  Uh, we sleep trained the babies, and they, they both were, Um,
• 1:15:07
  had the right personality for that and we, we got through that.
• 1:15:10
  Um, but then we kind of got into this phase where the kids were
• 1:15:15
  sleeping and things were going well.
• 1:15:17
  Um, and then I started to have, um, some personal challenges,
• 1:15:22
  uh, with my mental health.
• 1:15:23
  And it was, you know, looking back at it now, it's easy to look back and see all
• 1:15:29
  the red flags and the signs and whatnot.
• 1:15:31
  Um, but in the moment I.
• 1:15:34
  Really was having a hard time, um, with a lot of my personal anxiety issues, um,
• 1:15:42
  that I had struggled with pre partum and like, you know, before becoming a mom.
• 1:15:47
  Um, but this was at a level that I wasn't, um, I hadn't really experienced before.
• 1:15:53
  And so, I was really struggling, um, with kind of racing thoughts and
• 1:16:00
  ruminating thoughts and not really being able to shut my brain off.
• 1:16:03
  Um, and, you know, that's, I think most moms can attest to
• 1:16:07
  kind of feeling that a lot.
• 1:16:09
  Your brain just like, you know, clicks on and it's always popping
• 1:16:12
  off about to do lists and this and that and on the farm and whatnot.
• 1:16:16
  Um, but for me it was, to a point where it was really starting to affect
• 1:16:20
  my sleep and I was not sleeping.
• 1:16:24
  Um, but the babies were sleeping, which then frustrated me because
• 1:16:28
  I was like, why can't I sleep?
• 1:16:29
  My kids are sleeping.
• 1:16:30
  I finally got to this stage.
• 1:16:32
  What is wrong with me?
• 1:16:33
  Why am I not sleeping?
• 1:16:34
  You know, what's going on with me?
• 1:16:35
  And it was just kind of like, start to cycle.
• 1:16:37
  And this really, um, I would say went on for about six months, um, where I was on
• 1:16:45
  again, off again, um, mostly not sleeping through the night, um, just really having,
• 1:16:51
  and the, the rest that I did have wasn't, um, you know, restorative and good for me.
• 1:16:57
  So then the days were hard, um, and I was trying to finish school and
• 1:17:02
  also be a mom on the side and be a partner and, you know, do some self
• 1:17:07
  care for myself because I knew.
• 1:17:09
  Um, you know, being in mental health and, and studying it and knowing all the good
• 1:17:13
  things that I should be doing for myself.
• 1:17:16
  I knew what I should be doing, but I did not have the capacity
• 1:17:19
  to be able to do that for myself.
• 1:17:21
  Um, which was also a frustration for me because I'm like, why can't I do this?
• 1:17:25
  I know this would help me if I could get to it or if I could find the time or if I
• 1:17:30
  could find, you know, quiet myself down.
• 1:17:32
  long enough to just be able to do that, to, you know, to go for a walk
• 1:17:36
  or to, um, to, you know, eat a healthy meal or something along those lines.
• 1:17:41
  Um, so for me, um, those, the red flag really was like my sleep.
• 1:17:47
  That was something that I, I can't function without sleep.
• 1:17:52
  I've always been the type of person that I need my eight hours.
• 1:17:55
  Otherwise I just can't get through the day.
• 1:17:57
  And so, you know, after months of experiencing this, I was like, okay,
• 1:18:02
  I need, I need to do something.
• 1:18:04
  This can't go on.
• 1:18:05
  This is not sustainable.
• 1:18:06
  This is not good for anyone, including.
• 1:18:08
  myself the most.
• 1:18:09
  And so, um, I met with my, my doctor, my GP, um, who, at first,
• 1:18:16
  we started with a sleeping pill, um, just because I was like, that
• 1:18:20
  at least will give me some rest.
• 1:18:22
  And so, after, um, about a couple months of, um, of using that, which was kind of
• 1:18:29
  working here and there, but then I would go through going a really difficult, you
• 1:18:33
  know, just kind of worrying anxiety spell, um, then the sleeping pill wouldn't work.
• 1:18:38
  I would wake up, um, I would go to bed, have no problem falling asleep because
• 1:18:42
  I was exhausted throughout the day.
• 1:18:44
  Like, you know, just dealing with the kids and all of the just life stuff
• 1:18:48
  every day, um, at the end of the day.
• 1:18:50
  I was exhausted, so falling asleep was not an issue for me.
• 1:18:53
  It was staying asleep, and so I would wake up multiple times throughout
• 1:18:57
  the night and again, not be restful.
• 1:19:00
  I would move to the spare room, I would go to the couch, I would turn the TV on.
• 1:19:03
  I would, you know, try to read a book.
• 1:19:05
  I would listen to a sleep meditation, like all over the things.
• 1:19:08
  I would just kind of like go through and eventually, At some point, I would sort of
• 1:19:12
  doze off, but then by that point, it was time to wake up and feed the kids again.
• 1:19:16
  And so, um, the sleeping pill kind of helped for a little bit, but
• 1:19:21
  then, um, it wasn't really a, a a sustainable long term option for me.
• 1:19:28
  And so I was like, okay, well, what's next?
• 1:19:31
  What can I be doing?
• 1:19:32
  And so throughout that process, I did, um, I was, I was journaling.
• 1:19:37
  I was trying to do regular meditations and some of that stuff
• 1:19:40
  was, was helping, um, and was.
• 1:19:43
  Um, you know, good for me.
• 1:19:45
  Um, but it still wasn't getting to the point where I knew I needed to be.
• 1:19:49
  Um, in terms of like, healthy me and like, really showing up as my full self.
• 1:19:54
  And so, I went back to my doctor again and I said, Look, um,
• 1:19:59
  you know, this isn't working.
• 1:20:00
  And I should also add as well that I did
• 1:20:06
  Um, and so that was something also that I, I knew I needed to do for my
• 1:20:11
  self care, um, and thankfully with my mom, she would come once a week.
• 1:20:15
  So I knew I would have, you know, an hour every Thursday that I could talk to my
• 1:20:20
  therapist, similar to like what Sarah said, and just kind of like unload and,
• 1:20:25
  um, And this was something, you know, the, the postpartum anxiety was something that
• 1:20:30
  I, um, I spoke with her quite a lot about.
• 1:20:33
  Um, and so once I got to that point where the sleeping pill wasn't really working,
• 1:20:37
  I knew I needed something else, I, I had kind of struggled with the idea of
• 1:20:45
  turning to um, an anti anxiety medication.
• 1:20:49
  Um, and For me, I know, um, being in the field of mental health,
• 1:20:54
  all of the good things that can come with taking medication.
• 1:20:58
  Um, and that it is something that I encourage others, that if it is something
• 1:21:04
  that you want to consider for your mental health, I encourage people and I know
• 1:21:09
  that they can be very valuable, uh, tools for people to use in coordination with.
• 1:21:14
  a lot of other self care practices, and so when it came for time for me to consider
• 1:21:21
  that for myself, I had a hard time just kind of processing that and being
• 1:21:28
  like, well, why do I need medication?
• 1:21:31
  I should know better.
• 1:21:32
  I should know how to, you know, get myself healthy again, um,
• 1:21:35
  without the help of this, and so.
• 1:21:39
  So, through a lot of talking with my therapist about this, and um, one of the
• 1:21:44
  things that really kind of clicked for me, um, was she, she enlightened me and said,
• 1:21:51
  you know, you're, you're taking a sleeping pill every day, so how different is it
• 1:21:56
  than taking an anti anxiety medication?
• 1:21:58
  She's like, the sleeping pill's not working for you, but you still take, like,
• 1:22:01
  but you're still, you know, using it.
• 1:22:04
  Why, what's your hesitation in taking, um, taking a different form of medication?
• 1:22:10
  And so, So, that kind of shifted my mindset a little bit to say, yeah, you
• 1:22:15
  know what, why, why do I, um, have this kind of internal bias, um, and the, this
• 1:22:21
  thought pattern, and so I, I took some time to really sort of understand my,
• 1:22:27
  my internal hesitation around that, um, and ultimately came to the decision that
• 1:22:34
  it was time for me to consider and start taking, um, an anti anxiety medication,
• 1:22:39
  and I knew that It is a process to kind of get yourself on to, um, the, the right
• 1:22:45
  medication for you at the right dosage.
• 1:22:46
  So there's many different options and there's different side effects that you
• 1:22:50
  do need to, uh, consider and understand.
• 1:22:53
  Um, and how your body reacts to that.
• 1:22:56
  Um, it can be a bit of a trial and error process.
• 1:22:58
  So I was a little...
• 1:22:59
  Kind of concerned about that, being like, I know I'm gonna feel
• 1:23:02
  like crap for about two weeks, um, while I take this new medication.
• 1:23:07
  Um, and I was almost, I think, worried that I would get worse, that I, but I
• 1:23:14
  was already in such a bad state of, like, no sleep and, um, you know, very little
• 1:23:19
  patience for everything in life that anything was gonna be better than this.
• 1:23:24
  And so, um, I started taking my medication, um, that the doctor
• 1:23:30
  prescribed to me and, um, it was honestly the best decision that I've
• 1:23:37
  made for myself in the last year.
• 1:23:40
  And it is something that I never thought I would need or
• 1:23:45
  never thought I would consider.
• 1:23:47
  Um, because I do work in mental health and I do have good self care practices and I
• 1:23:53
  know what I need to be doing for myself.
• 1:23:55
  But as a new mom with two young babies that have so many needs and we always put
• 1:24:00
  everybody before ourselves, those things, it almost seemed to me like I could...
• 1:24:05
  see everything that I needed to do.
• 1:24:06
  It was behind a glass wall and I could not access it.
• 1:24:10
  And now having my medication, um, I can open up that glass wall and
• 1:24:15
  I can access everything again.
• 1:24:17
  And I am so thankful that I am sleeping, that I am healthy, that I am able to, you
• 1:24:22
  know, start new things like a new job.
• 1:24:24
  Um, be a functioning parent, um, and be a partner to my husband
• 1:24:30
  that's not, you know, completely at my wits end all the time.
• 1:24:34
  So that's really been my mental health journey over the last year and it's been
• 1:24:39
  extremely eye opening, very challenging, um, but I'm really happy to say that
• 1:24:44
  I am in a healthy place right now.
• 1:24:48
  Arlene: Thank you for sharing that with us.
• 1:24:49
  I think it's really important to recognize that even Someone who knows
• 1:24:53
  as much about mental health as you do, that you still had that bias
• 1:24:57
  even kind of against yourself, right?
• 1:25:00
  Like, that it was, it was fine for, for other people, but you
• 1:25:04
  know, I'll be okay without it.
• 1:25:05
  But, but yeah, it's interesting to know that even that.
• 1:25:09
  That lots of people can, you can, we can all talk about mental health, but,
• 1:25:13
  but sometimes it's harder to, to self reflect and realize that, that the help
• 1:25:19
  that we think other people can access, we also need to be kind to ourselves
• 1:25:24
  and, and do the same things for us.
• 1:25:26
  Caite: All right.
• 1:25:26
  So Arlene, I'm going to steal your question.
• 1:25:29
  Um, Sarah, one of the big surprises that I had as a new parent was how hard it
• 1:25:35
  was on my body to care for an infant.
• 1:25:39
  Um, you know, I ended up with tendinitis in both knees from standing up from
• 1:25:43
  the couch while holding a baby post C section, like, just that sort of random.
• 1:25:49
  Ended up with tennis elbow from carrying around a huge baby, and then ended
• 1:25:53
  up with tennis elbow in both elbows from carrying around two huge babies.
• 1:25:57
  Um, so knowing that your background is in exercise physiology, how have you...
• 1:26:03
  dealt with this bullshit.
• 1:26:05
  Did anybody warn anybody about any of this?
• 1:26:08
  Cause, I feel like, this seems to be a common thing, but nobody
• 1:26:12
  Sarah: ever seems to be warned about anything to do with my body other than
• 1:26:18
  taking care of your hoo ha after you tear.
• 1:26:23
  That's, that's all there was.
• 1:26:25
  Yeah.
• 1:26:25
  Like, oh yeah, don't use toilet paper.
• 1:26:27
  Good luck.
• 1:26:29
  Kristen: You
• 1:26:29
  Sarah: know, and so I think that, um, uh, You had said in our first episode
• 1:26:35
  that there are so many repetitive motion injuries from carrying around babies and
• 1:26:39
  stuff like that and that was the first time I'd really ever heard anything.
• 1:26:44
  I know that like, Oh, your back can hurt if you carry them around too much.
• 1:26:48
  And, of course, my pregnant self was like, Well, I'm gonna teach my kid to
• 1:26:51
  be content on their own, so I don't have to carry them around too much.
• 1:26:56
  Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
• 1:26:57
  Yeah, like shit.
• 1:26:58
  Caite: How's that working out for you, Sarah?
• 1:26:59
  Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
• 1:27:01
  It worked out
• 1:27:01
  Sarah: real good.
• 1:27:02
  So, I think that in the first, um, Like, little bit.
• 1:27:06
  Super, super post C section.
• 1:27:08
  I was like, okay, I need to make sure that my pelvic floor is, um, is strengthening.
• 1:27:14
  That my, I had a pretty severe diastasis recti.
• 1:27:16
  So, like, I was making sure that I was doing my, um, you know, my, uh, dead bugs
• 1:27:21
  and my clamshells and all that stuff.
• 1:27:23
  And I had a little bit of pubic symphysis issues.
• 1:27:25
  So, I was doing my exercises and making sure that my body was getting
• 1:27:29
  back to where I was able to...
• 1:27:32
  Walk around and carry a baby and get up and down off the floor and
• 1:27:36
  um, you know, not shit my pants in Home Depot but I think that
• 1:27:46
  Caite: It sounds like an oddly specific
• 1:27:48
  Kristen: So,
• 1:27:49
  Sarah: okay.
• 1:27:49
  I did not shit my pants in Home Depot and I really debated on making this
• 1:27:54
  a tick tock But I feel like this is a safer place than tick tock.
• 1:27:57
  So I'm gonna I'm gonna say it here Okay, so there are
• 1:28:01
  Kristen: few things that men will never
• 1:28:04
  Sarah: have to deal with.
• 1:28:05
  Okay, first
• 1:28:06
  Kristen: of all,
• 1:28:07
  Sarah: putting their cart of lumber
• 1:28:09
  Kristen: aside that they're buying for someone else to go to Home Depot,
• 1:28:13
  to the bathroom in Home Depot, to hold their infant on their toilet,
• 1:28:17
  on the toilet, while they poop is one of those things that my husband
• 1:28:21
  will never have to deal with.
• 1:28:23
  First of
• 1:28:23
  Sarah: all, it will be a rare day that he will be running errands with our child by
• 1:28:28
  Kristen: himself.
• 1:28:30
  And his pelvic floor is woven tighter than a Langeberger basket.
• 1:28:34
  Like, this is just not a thing that he will ever have to deal with.
• 1:28:40
  And to that, I say, fuck
• 1:28:42
  Sarah: you.
• 1:28:43
  You know?
• 1:28:44
  Come on, man.
• 1:28:47
  Caite: I'm, I'm just envisioning your husband's pelvic floor being lined
• 1:28:51
  with, like, that blue gingham shit.
• 1:28:53
  And, like, I'm sorry, I'm done.
• 1:28:56
  I'm...
• 1:28:58
  As, as someone whose pelvic floor posts...
• 1:29:01
  Direct eye and hernia surgery and five more hernias is more like...
• 1:29:07
  A fishing net that has gone through a hurricane.
• 1:29:10
  And then through, like, a jet engine, I'm...
• 1:29:13
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:29:14
  so anyway, um,
• 1:29:18
  Sarah: I totally forgot where I was.
• 1:29:21
  I just, I'm envisioning my collection of Langeberger baskets now, and how
• 1:29:25
  I should decorate them for summer.
• 1:29:27
  But, um...
• 1:29:28
  Oh, uh, the body.
• 1:29:29
  Physiologically.
• 1:29:30
  Arlene: So,
• 1:29:31
  Sarah: after getting back to kind of like where I was, being able to
• 1:29:35
  function, then I started thinking about like, okay, how do I need to
• 1:29:38
  strengthen my body so that I can put the car seat in the car and do some of
• 1:29:44
  the things that are like a little bit more, take a little bit more balance and
• 1:29:48
  coordination and s and things like that.
• 1:29:52
  Um, and so I was just surprised at how many muscles you need to do simple things
• 1:29:59
  after all those muscles are moved and stretched and cut and all that stuff.
• 1:30:04
  So we think that, um, That was really surprising for me, um, and then also
• 1:30:09
  just knowing what I know, like, I know that I need to strengthen, to lift
• 1:30:13
  weights, to do exercises in order to be able to carry my child, you know,
• 1:30:21
  Kristen: um, and yeah, she is a stage 5 clinger
• 1:30:24
  Sarah: and so, um, there is no teaching her to be content on her own, even
• 1:30:29
  Kristen: now she's like, Just
• 1:30:31
  Sarah: loves to be held, you know, and so I think that at, you know, 26 pounds,
• 1:30:36
  it's a little bit different, um, and I still carry her, like, in the, in the
• 1:30:41
  baby carrier, or the infant, you know, carrier that you strap to you, um,
• 1:30:45
  quite a bit, and I think that I've now thought a lot about my body structure
• 1:30:49
  and how I, um, how I walk the shoes that I wear, how I stand if I'm just standing
• 1:30:55
  around the kind of angle of my pelvis, which changes after you have a baby.
• 1:31:00
  Um, and that really can change the amount of pressure on your low back.
• 1:31:04
  And so paying attention to those things, um, has been really
• 1:31:08
  beneficial, but still like you hold it.
• 1:31:11
  26 pound baby for it doesn't matter how long or like, you know,
• 1:31:14
  for a while and your back hurts.
• 1:31:17
  And so then what do I need to do at the end of the day or after I put her down in
• 1:31:22
  order to stretch my back to make sure that I'm not then overcompensating in other
• 1:31:28
  areas because then sometimes that can cause soreness and tension and issues You
• 1:31:33
  know, where you're not even expecting it.
• 1:31:35
  So, um, there's kind of like the, the chain of your body, right?
• 1:31:39
  That starts with the arches of your feet.
• 1:31:41
  And so if you're, if your feet are, are too flat and whether they're
• 1:31:46
  naturally flat or you're wearing, you know, the dollar store flip flops.
• 1:31:50
  It doesn't matter.
• 1:31:52
  Um, but that makes you a little bit knock need.
• 1:31:54
  It kind of turns your knees in a certain way and that makes your hips, your pelvic
• 1:31:57
  girdle like literally fall forward.
• 1:31:59
  And then if you have a, um, a diastasis recti or you have low
• 1:32:04
  back issues or you have different things going on with your core, then
• 1:32:08
  that exacerbates All those issues.
• 1:32:10
  So part of it is like, well, throw your dollar store flip flops away and
• 1:32:14
  buy yourself a pair of Birkenstocks and pay attention to how you're
• 1:32:17
  standing and pay attention to your body structure or your body's, um, stature.
• 1:32:23
  And so that these problems that are just a little bit of soreness here and
• 1:32:27
  there don't turn into big major issues.
• 1:32:31
  And so paying attention to that has been really helpful.
• 1:32:33
  And then also now I do a lot of back, um, weightlifting exercises.
• 1:32:39
  Like, I never had, like, back day before, but now I do, you know?
• 1:32:43
  And so I think that that's important too, that as your baby grows and gets
• 1:32:47
  heavier, you are making sure that you're being proactive on the muscular
• 1:32:52
  front to be able to support your stage 5 clinger as she hits 30 pounds.
• 1:33:01
  Arlene: And the pesky thing about babies is that the, the 26 pound baby doesn't
• 1:33:05
  just sit in your arms like the, you know, the, the 10 pound one did, right?
• 1:33:09
  Like, they're twisting and turning and reaching for things and then
• 1:33:12
  they want down and then they want back up again right away.
• 1:33:15
  So yeah, the, it's not just the weight, but the, yeah, the movement
• 1:33:18
  and the way that you're carrying.
• 1:33:20
  Sarah: Absolutely.
• 1:33:21
  And I then carry her on my left side so that I can do things with my right
• 1:33:25
  hand, which then causes a whole other boatload of issues, you know, if I'm
• 1:33:30
  doing that too much or depending on what I'm doing for that day, you know.
• 1:33:35
  Um, and so paying attention to that as well has been really,
• 1:33:38
  uh, interesting, I would say.
• 1:33:44
  Caite: I'm, I'm really going to put forward to that we should rename these
• 1:33:49
  things and change our expectations around them because as I found out, Two, the
• 1:33:55
  tendinitis behind your kneecaps has some name like washerwoman's knee or
• 1:33:59
  housewife's knee or some goddamn you know one of them's like washerwoman's elbow
• 1:34:04
  and housewife's knee and and then if you're me and you have to get cortisone
• 1:34:10
  shots because you're an old mom and now you have to get cortisone shots in
• 1:34:13
  your elbows because you had two huge ass kids who both need to be dragged
• 1:34:18
  around everywhere and it's just like It should be called, like, Bad Bitch Knee.
• 1:34:27
  Like, Something cool.
• 1:34:29
  Like, It should be, like, And, I don't know if you guys know this, but they
• 1:34:35
  warn you that your ligaments get loose during pregnancy, but nobody reminds you
• 1:34:40
  that there are ligaments in your knees.
• 1:34:42
  And, like, In your elbows and shoulders and shit, and that
• 1:34:45
  all of those got loose, too.
• 1:34:47
  And they might
• 1:34:48
  Sarah: not
• 1:34:48
  Kristen: tighten back up!
• 1:34:49
  In
• 1:34:50
  Sarah: the same way that they were before.
• 1:34:53
  Like, probably not.
• 1:34:55
  Caite: Mm hmm.
• 1:34:57
  Things that are supposed to be loose will now be tight, and anything that
• 1:35:00
  used to be tight will now be loose.
• 1:35:03
  Except a few random things, which we'll find out about at some point
• 1:35:06
  Sarah: later.
• 1:35:06
  I agree, that should be called, like, bad bitch syndrome or something like that.
• 1:35:12
  Caite: Yes.
• 1:35:15
  Yes.
• 1:35:16
  Give it a call.
• 1:35:16
  Arlene: Now that we've talked about Sarah's husband's pelvic floor, I'm
• 1:35:20
  going to go into my question about relationships and how your marriage
• 1:35:23
  has changed in the last year.
• 1:35:25
  So what is, what is their adjustment to fatherhood been like?
• 1:35:31
  Sarah, I remember one of the things you were looking forward to was
• 1:35:33
  seeing your husband become a dad.
• 1:35:35
  So I'm also wondering about the good things that have happened in your
• 1:35:38
  relationship, not just the fights that have happened in the last year.
• 1:35:41
  So how, how have you seen your
• 1:35:42
  Kristen: relationship?
• 1:35:43
  Zach went in pretty confident.
• 1:35:45
  He's got brothers
• 1:35:46
  Sarah: who are 10 and 13 years younger.
• 1:35:48
  So
• 1:35:49
  Kristen: he was kind of like, no, I'm good with babies.
• 1:35:51
  Like I'm good with diapers.
• 1:35:52
  I got, got this in the bag.
• 1:35:54
  And he was quickly humbled.
• 1:35:56
  Uh, quickly humbled.
• 1:35:58
  So
• 1:35:58
  Sarah: that was, um, enjoyable for me to see.
• 1:36:01
  Um, so, but I think that it took him a while.
• 1:36:05
  Same thing to, to bond with
• 1:36:07
  Kristen: her.
• 1:36:07
  He
• 1:36:08
  Sarah: did have the experience of, like, this is the best day of my life.
• 1:36:11
  This is the most beautiful experience I've ever had.
• 1:36:14
  Um, but then I think that he got really scared.
• 1:36:19
  And part of it was because then he spent two weeks in the field where he didn't...
• 1:36:24
  Really see us that much and didn't really
• 1:36:26
  Kristen: interact with her and then it was like
• 1:36:28
  Sarah: well wait You know everything about her and everything to do
• 1:36:31
  and I saw her one time two weeks ago What do I do now, you know?
• 1:36:37
  And so I feel like that was challenging to have her at the beginning of planting
• 1:36:41
  season And then it took them a while to bond, which I do think is normal.
• 1:36:46
  I've had several friends I've actually had six friends have babies in the last Um,
• 1:36:51
  well, since the beginning of the year, so the last six months, really, so I think
• 1:36:54
  that that's pretty normal, um, to see,
• 1:36:58
  Kristen: and then that was a little bit challenging, too, because I would
• 1:37:01
  Sarah: be like, do, do this, do that, do this, do that, and he, um, is like,
• 1:37:06
  Kristen: I don't, I don't
• 1:37:06
  Sarah: know what
• 1:37:07
  Kristen: to do or
• 1:37:07
  Sarah: how to do
• 1:37:08
  Kristen: it or anything like that, and I was like, I thought you were Mr.
• 1:37:11
  Confident coming into this thing, you know,
• 1:37:13
  Sarah: so, um, I think that overall parenting
• 1:37:16
  Kristen: together has been interesting, challenging, beautiful, you know, it's fun
• 1:37:21
  to watch him become a dad and fun to watch
• 1:37:25
  Sarah: like their relationship flourish and now they have so much
• 1:37:29
  fun together and it's hilarious.
• 1:37:30
  Um, but our relationship in general, I feel like...
• 1:37:34
  Ours is a little bit different, too, because Zach was having so many health
• 1:37:37
  Kristen: issues up until a couple of months ago.
• 1:37:40
  So now, he's like, feeling
• 1:37:42
  Sarah: good and motivated for the first time in three years.
• 1:37:45
  And I'm like, okay, but it's 10.
• 1:37:47
  30, like, can you come in the house?
• 1:37:48
  Kristen: Like, I haven't seen you all day, you know?
• 1:37:51
  Sarah: So, that has been a welcomed change of pace from me doing
• 1:37:57
  everything to him suddenly, like, feeling good and doing things again.
• 1:38:01
  Um, but I think that there just takes a lot of communication and we
• 1:38:06
  have a lot of like family involved in our farm and stuff like that.
• 1:38:10
  So we try to stay on the same page pretty regularly.
• 1:38:14
  But then with a newborn, of course, that's not As easy or he says something
• 1:38:19
  and I'm sleeping or half sleeping or you know, um, exhausted and vice versa.
• 1:38:24
  So I think that that has been a little bit challenging just re establishing
• 1:38:29
  the priority of communication, um, has been really tough.
• 1:38:33
  And so I think that now we're like in a good system, a good
• 1:38:37
  rhythm and that sort of thing.
• 1:38:39
  Um, but yeah, there were definitely some growing pains through that.
• 1:38:43
  And also like the whole, like.
• 1:38:46
  Mothers just basically take on the entire emotional load and burden
• 1:38:52
  of the logistics of children.
• 1:38:55
  Um, has just been something on my mind a lot lately, you know what I mean?
• 1:39:01
  And like, part of it, we very much have our own domains, right?
• 1:39:06
  His domain is the farm and my domain is everything else, which actually he does a
• 1:39:11
  lot more at the farm than everything else.
• 1:39:13
  So I feel like it was always kind of balanced, but now it's kind of not
• 1:39:17
  balanced, you know, so part of this is also like me encouraging him to take
• 1:39:22
  over to reclaim or to take responsibility for certain things that had previously.
• 1:39:29
  Ben on my plate is like, you got to step up to the plate here, bud, you know?
• 1:39:33
  And so he's more than happy to do it, but I definitely feel like that
• 1:39:36
  took a little bit of hand holding and a little bit of like encouragement
• 1:39:41
  and, and building up his confidence.
• 1:39:44
  I would say it was almost like he didn't feel like he could do things.
• 1:39:47
  He didn't feel like.
• 1:39:49
  He knew what to do, or he could do it as good as me, right, because
• 1:39:52
  mom always does everything best.
• 1:39:55
  And so part of that was like, nope, it's gonna be dad's thing now, and
• 1:39:59
  dad can do it best also, you know.
• 1:40:02
  And so, um, I think that that is, is, important that we did that because
• 1:40:08
  it makes a big difference now.
• 1:40:10
  Um, and for a while when he was not feeling good, that was really
• 1:40:13
  tough because I was basically taking care of him and me and the baby
• 1:40:16
  and the house and everything else and working and everything else.
• 1:40:20
  And so that, um, was really challenging now that he's feeling better though.
• 1:40:25
  It's, it's been a good change over and I feel like in some ways farm families
• 1:40:30
  have to do that every Every season, multiple seasons, when you're done
• 1:40:35
  with harvest, there kind of needs to be that, okay, now that you're done,
• 1:40:40
  you know, working so, such long hours, here's a few things that you need to
• 1:40:44
  take into your zone of responsibility.
• 1:40:47
  Um, because it can really easily be, you find yourself at Christmas time,
• 1:40:52
  still doing everything, and you're like, wait, you're no longer working 16 hours,
• 1:40:56
  so step up to the plate here, bud.
• 1:40:58
  Um.
• 1:40:59
  Kristen: So I feel
• 1:40:59
  Sarah: like just having that reset has been really helpful, and I
• 1:41:02
  have to remind myself of that, you know, a few, a few times a year.
• 1:41:09
  Arlene: Yeah, that's a, that's a really good way on the farm.
• 1:41:11
  So that should carry over into the rest.
• 1:41:13
  Looking at it, that seasonality doesn't, doesn't mean that we all
• 1:41:17
  have the same responsibilities all the time of our lives, right?
• 1:41:20
  Where it's like, okay, yeah, yeah, things are a little bit easier on your end.
• 1:41:24
  So yeah, let's, let's shift some of the, some of the jobs or let's look
• 1:41:28
  again at who's responsible for what and, and who gets to do which jobs.
• 1:41:33
  Kristen, you alluded it.
• 1:41:34
  to it a little bit already, but how do you feel like your marriage and
• 1:41:38
  relationship has changed in the last year, and how has your, your partner
• 1:41:41
  adjusted to being a dad of two?
• 1:41:45
  Kristen: Yeah, so I, I want to take just a quick little step back to say
• 1:41:48
  that Sarah, I need you to come and do like a physical body consult for me
• 1:41:51
  because the havoc that these twins have, like, on my body Oh my goodness, you
• 1:41:58
  think that like, yeah, you you recover from after birth and it's like, okay.
• 1:42:01
  Yep.
• 1:42:01
  Now i'm back to myself Oh my god, like carrying around two 25 pound
• 1:42:06
  kids because I do carry both of them at the same time It's the most
• 1:42:09
  efficient because i'm not going up and down the stairs multiple times.
• 1:42:13
  Ain't nobody got time for that I have definitely noticed that that change in
• 1:42:18
  my physical body and like, yeah, Katie said, being like an old mom, I'm not in my
• 1:42:23
  20s, like early 20s and like, can't just like whip up and do these things anymore.
• 1:42:28
  I have had this issue with my thumb.
• 1:42:31
  Like it's called like mom thumb or something.
• 1:42:34
  Of
• 1:42:34
  Arlene: course, or bad bitch thumb, right
• 1:42:36
  Kristen: Katie?
• 1:42:36
  Yes, exactly.
• 1:42:37
  Yes.
• 1:42:37
  Bad bitch thumb.
• 1:42:38
  That's what it's called.
• 1:42:40
  Caite: I had forgotten about the fucking mom thumb.
• 1:42:43
  I did not even know mom thumb was a thing.
• 1:42:44
  Thank you for that, Kristen.
• 1:42:46
  Speaking of cortisone shots.
• 1:42:48
  Yeah, also mom thumb.
• 1:42:49
  Yeah, I was just like.
• 1:42:52
  It's, and it's so stupid because it's like, Oh, my badge of honor, my mom
• 1:42:59
  Kristen: thumb.
• 1:43:00
  Right?
• 1:43:00
  Comes down to that.
• 1:43:01
  Cool.
• 1:43:03
  Caite: It, it feels like it belongs in the same place that when I found out I
• 1:43:08
  was having a C section with the first baby and I was a little like, not upset,
• 1:43:12
  but just like, back footed because, same as here, I had, I had a whole birth
• 1:43:17
  plan and the C section was not on it.
• 1:43:21
  And the nurse, this sweet young thing, she's like 19 and she's
• 1:43:24
  real cute, you know, and I was 35 when my daughter was born.
• 1:43:31
  And the nurse goes, Well, don't worry, they do see sections so low now,
• 1:43:34
  you'll still be able to wear a bikini.
• 1:43:37
  And I was like, What are you going to do about the rest of me?
• 1:43:41
  Oh
• 1:43:45
  my!
• 1:43:45
  Like, honey, a scar.
• 1:43:48
  Would never stop me from wearing a bathing suit.
• 1:43:50
  And like, fine if it does.
• 1:43:52
  Like, fine if you're not comfortable with that.
• 1:43:54
  But the rest of my existence would stop me from wearing a bikini.
• 1:43:59
  And not even in like, a body shaming way, but in a like, I have a hard
• 1:44:02
  enough time not flashing people wearing a like, neck high one piece.
• 1:44:06
  Like, it's just not a thing.
• 1:44:08
  And then they're like, oh, and you got tendinitis in your thumb,
• 1:44:12
  and it's called Mom's Thumb.
• 1:44:13
  That's great, yeah.
• 1:44:14
  Fuck off!
• 1:44:15
  Oh, just...
• 1:44:16
  Just fuck off with that.
• 1:44:18
  Like, no.
• 1:44:19
  I refuse
• 1:44:20
  Kristen: to accept this.
• 1:44:21
  Yeah, yeah, that's my, my bad bitch thumb is my badge of
• 1:44:24
  honor from having two babies.
• 1:44:26
  Like, this is, it's, yeah, it's like the epitome of like, I feel
• 1:44:30
  like it's like the worst thing, like the, the suckiest injury.
• 1:44:34
  I'm like, my thumb hurts.
• 1:44:35
  Like, I feel like I'm being a whiny baby.
• 1:44:37
  Oh, my thumb hurts, but it's like, no, it really freaking hurts.
• 1:44:40
  And every time I like, you pick up your kid and you put your
• 1:44:43
  hand under their, their crotch and you hold them up like that.
• 1:44:45
  It's like, Oh my god, the end of the day.
• 1:44:48
  It's just like holy shit.
• 1:44:50
  Like and yeah, like just trying to like Type on my computer.
• 1:44:54
  I'm like, why do I feel like i'm 80 years old here?
• 1:44:58
  Yeah, it is the worst thing.
• 1:44:59
  So sorry.
• 1:45:00
  I just wanted to jump back to that to say sarah.
• 1:45:02
  I need I need your help girl Um, but in uh in all reality relationship
• 1:45:09
  wise, yeah, that has definitely been um I would say ups and downs as well.
• 1:45:15
  Like the early days you're kind of in this haze where you don't really know what's
• 1:45:19
  going on and whatnot with your partner.
• 1:45:21
  And you kind of know that each other are there for us.
• 1:45:24
  And we were just kind of like.
• 1:45:25
  And with two, really, my husband never had an opportunity to say no
• 1:45:32
  because, you know, I was outnumbered and I'm like, here, have a baby.
• 1:45:36
  And to his full credit, night feedings, we both got up every
• 1:45:40
  time and fed the babies together.
• 1:45:42
  Um, so having Having two babies means both parents step up to the plate for us.
• 1:45:48
  And that just really worked because then it wasn't, you know, feed
• 1:45:52
  one baby, put them down, feed the next baby, put them down.
• 1:45:55
  It was like, okay, how can we do this efficiently as possible?
• 1:45:58
  That was our whole modus operandi as parents is efficiency.
• 1:46:03
  And so I'm very thankful that he does, um, He was able to, to be home and to be, um,
• 1:46:11
  that extra set of hands that I needed, um, in those early days, and even now still,
• 1:46:16
  like, carrying two kids to the car, for instance, like, they're kind of on the
• 1:46:20
  brink of walking right now, they're sort of, like, toppling and, like, wobbly on
• 1:46:24
  their feet, but it's still pick them up and carry them everywhere, and that is
• 1:46:29
  a lot for one person, um, but in terms of, in terms of our relationship, kind of
• 1:46:34
  how it's, It's changed in our marriage.
• 1:46:37
  Um, I would, I would have to say that we're probably in a better
• 1:46:43
  place now than we were before.
• 1:46:45
  And a few, few different reasons for that.
• 1:46:49
  Um, like Sarah said, that communications piece, um, it's forced us to really have
• 1:46:53
  some of those tough conversations and
• 1:47:00
  to just be really open and honest.
• 1:47:00
  And I'm not going to say it's been easy getting here because there were some.
• 1:47:04
  Those early days when I was really struggling with my own anxiety and I
• 1:47:09
  couldn't communicate What I was feeling um, because I just felt like I was failing
• 1:47:15
  at everything as a mom and as a person like I just felt like I could not do a
• 1:47:20
  single thing right, even if I was able to, you know, have dinner made and, you
• 1:47:25
  know, have showered that day, it still felt like a complete failure, which, as
• 1:47:29
  a mom to, you know, two newborn twins, like, that was, like, the, the most, the
• 1:47:35
  best possible situation for me, but I just constantly felt like I was failing,
• 1:47:40
  um, and I can remember vividly, like, after a stretch of just, like, struggle,
• 1:47:45
  you know, I was changing a diaper and downstairs in our living room and I just
• 1:47:49
  remember feeling so overwhelmed and I said to Tony, I'm just like, you know, I, I
• 1:47:54
  just don't know what's wrong with them.
• 1:47:56
  I don't know what's wrong.
• 1:47:57
  I need to figure out what is wrong with them and he just like completely
• 1:48:02
  stopped and it was just like, He looked at me and he's like, Kristen,
• 1:48:06
  you're not doing anything wrong.
• 1:48:07
  Like, you are a good mom.
• 1:48:09
  You are doing everything that you can.
• 1:48:12
  You know, this is just outside of our control right now.
• 1:48:15
  And it was just kind of a bit of a A reconnection point again to
• 1:48:22
  say like, Hey, you've got my back.
• 1:48:24
  You know, yes, this is hard.
• 1:48:26
  This is a struggle right now.
• 1:48:28
  You know, we, we want the perfect, you know, the perfect family and the perfect
• 1:48:31
  baby, and that was the other thing.
• 1:48:33
  Every time, you know, we would meet someone out or, you know, when
• 1:48:36
  we would talk about our family, like, Oh, you have a boy and a
• 1:48:38
  girl, Oh, what a perfect family.
• 1:48:40
  And I was like, our family ain't perfect.
• 1:48:43
  Like, this is sure we have the boy and the girl and the golden retriever dog.
• 1:48:48
  But let me tell you, there is nothing perfect about this.
• 1:48:51
  Um, but I felt like I, I had to like, live up to that standard, right?
• 1:48:56
  Like there was just this pressure that like, oh yes, I have the
• 1:48:59
  perfect family and I must love my children and have a clean house.
• 1:49:02
  And you know, it took me a lot of time.
• 1:49:06
  Just to be comfortable having toys on the floor and like my my OCD clean cleanliness
• 1:49:13
  Like I am a person of minimalism.
• 1:49:15
  I don't like clutter.
• 1:49:16
  I don't like mess I don't like, you know, all of that stuff really like
• 1:49:21
  I it creates anxiety at me I don't say OCD like in a flippant way.
• 1:49:26
  Like I seriously have like a Um, it, it affects me, and so having these two
• 1:49:34
  little hurricanes running through my house nowadays, I'm just like, oh my god.
• 1:49:39
  But, with a lot of communication, and you know, now I look at it very
• 1:49:45
  differently with my husband, and that we're a team to tackle this.
• 1:49:48
  So, yeah, the house is a complete disaster during the day, I
• 1:49:50
  don't fucking care anymore.
• 1:49:52
  You show up to my door.
• 1:49:53
  This is what it is.
• 1:49:55
  I, you know, take it or leave it, you know, and at the end of
• 1:49:58
  the day, we work together, um, to get all of those things done.
• 1:50:02
  And so the division of responsibilities, like Sarah was saying, um, that was
• 1:50:07
  something that had to kind of evolve.
• 1:50:10
  And we had to talk through that as well.
• 1:50:12
  It wasn't something that was just like.
• 1:50:14
  You know, at the start, I was just doing everything because that's,
• 1:50:17
  you know, how it was before.
• 1:50:18
  We have very traditional roles in our marriage, and I'm okay
• 1:50:21
  with that because, you know, he has his strength and I have mine.
• 1:50:24
  We tackle and conquer together.
• 1:50:26
  Um, but at the end of the day, when you have nothing left to give, and
• 1:50:30
  your house is a disaster, and the dog needs to be walked, and oh yeah,
• 1:50:34
  there's no food in the fridge anymore, Well, how are we going to do this?
• 1:50:38
  Is it all on me again?
• 1:50:39
  Because guess what?
• 1:50:40
  I, I can't.
• 1:50:42
  I just can't.
• 1:50:43
  Um, so those divisions of responsibilities, um have been A growing
• 1:50:50
  pain of ours, but I think that we're in a good place now where, you know, we,
• 1:50:55
  we also openly communicate about it.
• 1:50:57
  So after we put the kids to bed at night, our routine is typically one
• 1:51:00
  person takes the dog for a walk and one person cleans up, um, the dishes
• 1:51:06
  and, uh, and the toys in the house.
• 1:51:08
  And so oftentimes we'll just, you know, check in with each other and
• 1:51:11
  be like, which one do you want to do?
• 1:51:12
  Do you need time out of the house?
• 1:51:14
  Do you want to clean up?
• 1:51:15
  You know, just kind of those little things that just kind of yeah, okay It's not
• 1:51:19
  just assumed that okay, you're gonna take care of all of it and i'm gonna go sit
• 1:51:22
  on the couch and watch tv Um, you know how you're feeling in that moment, too.
• 1:51:26
  How can I help out?
• 1:51:27
  How can I step up?
• 1:51:29
  And what can we do together?
• 1:51:31
  So Our, our marriage has definitely shifted and changed, and I really am
• 1:51:36
  enjoying the phase that we're in now with young toddlers, um, because we are able
• 1:51:42
  to connect with the kids a lot more, and to really, like, just spending that time,
• 1:51:47
  that family time, after, after they have a bath, we play up in our loft area.
• 1:51:51
  And to see my husband, you know, acting goofy, and, you know, cuddling
• 1:51:56
  with my kids, and that sort of stuff.
• 1:51:58
  That is something that I didn't anticipate just really, um, you know, having,
• 1:52:04
  like, giving me the warm and fuzzies.
• 1:52:06
  Like, oh, you know what?
• 1:52:07
  This is what it's all worth.
• 1:52:09
  This is what this hellish year has all been worth.
• 1:52:12
  Right here, right now.
• 1:52:14
  It's the little moments and it's those things where I see him kiss my son on the
• 1:52:18
  forehead and then grab him in a bear hug and they both giggle and laugh together
• 1:52:24
  like that has really been incredible.
• 1:52:26
  Um, but I also want to acknowledge that, um, like Sarah, I've had many
• 1:52:32
  friends have babies over the last year, either their first one or multiple.
• 1:52:37
  kids to their family.
• 1:52:39
  And a lot of times, um, we don't often talk about how motherhood and
• 1:52:46
  parenthood changes our marriages.
• 1:52:48
  And it's something that I think It can be a huge challenge if it's not, you know,
• 1:52:56
  going in a positive direction for you.
• 1:52:59
  Um, and I've certainly had some conversations with some
• 1:53:03
  really close friends that are really struggling right now.
• 1:53:07
  And that is a hard thing, and it's not just, yes, becoming a parent,
• 1:53:11
  but becoming a part of a family unit.
• 1:53:16
  Um, your relationship does change and you, you again, can't anticipate how
• 1:53:21
  it will, um, but as women, you know, we tend to just kind of, um, put everybody
• 1:53:28
  else first again and, and set that aside.
• 1:53:31
  And so it is something that I'm really appreciate that both of you,
• 1:53:36
  you know, brought this up in the conversation that we can talk about
• 1:53:39
  this because it is an important part.
• 1:53:42
  And, you know, we.
• 1:53:44
  We started a family for a reason because we love each other.
• 1:53:47
  So is that love still there?
• 1:53:49
  And, and trying to nurture that and know what's good for you and your family
• 1:53:52
  is, um, is something that often can get lost in just the chaos of, of this
• 1:53:58
  whole first year and, and beyond that.
• 1:54:01
  Sarah: Kristen, one thing I want to add, because when you were talking
• 1:54:04
  about that, it made me remember, like, I, we were talking about grieving our
• 1:54:09
  old selves, and I feel like I also grieved our old relationship, in,
• 1:54:14
  Kristen: in the relationship itself, but also, like, I
• 1:54:17
  Sarah: was his only priority and now I'm not and that feels so selfish,
• 1:54:24
  but that's really how I felt,
• 1:54:26
  Kristen: you know, and not that I was like, jealous of my child for
• 1:54:29
  Sarah: taking up love and attention, but also like, it was just a weird thing to
• 1:54:35
  suddenly have to share, you know, and I think that, um, When you, like, have big
• 1:54:42
  changes like that, like, like I was able to tell Zach that, you know what I mean?
• 1:54:47
  But sometimes, it took me a while to even realize that that's what I was feeling.
• 1:54:52
  And so, I feel like if you, if that kind of sneaks up on you or you're not
• 1:54:56
  able to verbalize it in a way that you
• 1:54:59
  Kristen: can get it off your chest and your partner can actually understand
• 1:55:02
  Sarah: and do something about it, I feel like that can eat, eat away
• 1:55:07
  at a relationship really quickly.
• 1:55:12
  Caite: Sarah, I find it interesting because I feel like I felt the reverse of
• 1:55:15
  that when our first child was born because for nine months she had just been mine.
• 1:55:20
  It was just me and her.
• 1:55:24
  And having to share her and have it, I don't know that I've ever felt that
• 1:55:29
  lonely in my life as that transition from being able to literally feel her inside
• 1:55:36
  my body 24 hours a day to her just Being out doing her own thing, you know, and
• 1:55:42
  I mean now she's six, so she's actually like out doing stuff, but just that she
• 1:55:47
  could do something without me and just like, and it's weird to be like, that's
• 1:55:54
  my baby, give it back, but also like, coupled with the anxiety, then to have
• 1:56:02
  this feeling of like, I am the only person who's known her this whole time.
• 1:56:09
  And now I just have to share her with, like, the rest of you?
• 1:56:14
  Like, no, get your own.
• 1:56:15
  Make your own damn
• 1:56:16
  Arlene: baby.
• 1:56:17
  I guess that's where Kristen has the advantage.
• 1:56:19
  She had two, so she could hold on to one and give the other one.
• 1:56:23
  Yeah.
• 1:56:24
  Who's being better behaved right now?
• 1:56:25
  I'll take that one.
• 1:56:27
  Caite: That's the one I want.
• 1:56:28
  Kristen: Absolutely.
• 1:56:32
  That 100%.
• 1:56:33
  I, I've always said throughout this last year, I love my kids,
• 1:56:39
  but I don't always like them.
• 1:56:41
  And whoever I like less in that moment goes to somebody else.
• 1:56:45
  But Katie, I also really felt that as well after the kids and
• 1:56:51
  even, even more recently too.
• 1:56:53
  Um, Kind of like a possessiveness over my kids.
• 1:56:58
  Like I was very like, no, these are my children.
• 1:57:01
  And like, and it's not that I don't want them to, you know, um, make
• 1:57:05
  connections with other people and to, you know, have their own relationships
• 1:57:08
  with my family and that kind of stuff.
• 1:57:10
  But it was almost like I caught myself a couple times and I can't
• 1:57:15
  think of a specific instance right now, but I would just feel this
• 1:57:18
  overwhelming, like that's my baby.
• 1:57:21
  And it was.
• 1:57:21
  with people who were very close to me in my life and I'm like, Nuh uh,
• 1:57:25
  like you, this is mine, give it back.
• 1:57:28
  And I, like, I just wanted to, like, keep them for myself.
• 1:57:31
  And it was such a weird feeling because coupled with that, I didn't really feel
• 1:57:36
  that super, super strong maternalistic, like, loving, absolutely everything.
• 1:57:43
  Um, idea of, yeah, of my kids.
• 1:57:47
  And so that was a, I, I felt that too, and I didn't know how, how to understand
• 1:57:54
  it until I talked with it about my therapist and surprise, childhood trauma.
• 1:57:59
  Um, that kind of stuff starts to come back up.
• 1:58:02
  And so part of, part of me, yeah, really felt that strongly as well.
• 1:58:08
  And I'm still working through it.
• 1:58:10
  It's
• 1:58:10
  Caite: for me when I was really pregnant with our son.
• 1:58:12
  And I kept getting told that I was imagining it, and then we
• 1:58:16
  caught it on ultrasound, but my son would practice breathe.
• 1:58:20
  And he would be far enough up under my diaphragm that I could
• 1:58:23
  feel him breathing inside my body.
• 1:58:26
  And like, to be that, literally that close to another person, and then
• 1:58:33
  to just let other people share them?
• 1:58:37
  No!
• 1:58:37
  Which brings me to my next question.
• 1:58:40
  Kristen, I know that you had said that you have paid child care now, and I
• 1:58:45
  think Sarah does not, is that correct?
• 1:58:48
  Um, and Sarah, what you were saying about feeling beholden to people
• 1:58:55
  if they're, you know, doing you favors by helping with stuff.
• 1:59:00
  Um, Kristen, once I've gotten past the worst of the sobbing every time
• 1:59:05
  I leave my kids with someone because why should I have to share them?
• 1:59:09
  Um It's fucking amazing to leave your kids With somebody who's paid to watch
• 1:59:16
  them because I don't feel bad about it at all They're getting paid to watch them.
• 1:59:19
  This is literally their job And it's such a sense of freedom once you get past the
• 1:59:26
  mommy guilt about how they're probably gonna spend all day crying and they're
• 1:59:31
  probably gonna die and God knows what else horrible things are happening that you
• 1:59:38
  can just go do your shit and like not have to worry about it and it's incredible.
• 1:59:45
  So I'm wondering how that Sarah's like, I'm gonna write
• 1:59:48
  down the names of some daycares.
• 1:59:50
  Daycare's fucking expensive, but worth it.
• 1:59:54
  I'm wondering how that transition has been for you.
• 1:59:57
  And Arlene, were your kids ever in And paid trial.
• 2:00:00
  Second,
• 2:00:01
  Arlene: third, fourth, besides, like I did, I mean, I guess school kind
• 2:00:04
  created a preschool program for them.
• 2:00:06
  We don't really have preschool here, but I found a daycare that would take them
• 2:00:11
  a, you know, like one or two days a week, the year before they started kindergarten.
• 2:00:15
  But for the most part, no.
• 2:00:16
  I was a stay at home parent for, well, I guess our taxes are paying for it.
• 2:00:20
  Um, the, my oldest, no, my second.
• 2:00:27
  All of their first years, but our kids start school earlier
• 2:00:30
  than than yours do to our.
• 2:00:37
  Caite: And I'm.
• 2:00:42
  Arlene: We're starting school at three and a half.
• 2:00:44
  So, well, depending on their birthdates, but yeah, ours were
• 2:00:47
  ours were in kindergarten at three
• 2:00:49
  Caite: and a half.
• 2:00:49
  Absolutely not negating being a stay at home parent, either, but as
• 2:00:53
  someone who is trying to work with.
• 2:00:55
  You know, work
• 2:00:56
  Arlene: off farm a very near And I mean, there, I was, it was a choice to be a
• 2:01:01
  state owned parent, and I was, at that time, not working on the farm, or a very
• 2:01:06
  small amount, and when, uh, for the most part, my job was caring for our kids.
• 2:01:11
  I wasn't trying to do that, and I give lots of credit to the
• 2:01:14
  people who are doing that, too.
• 2:01:16
  I mean, there's, there's lots of ways to.
• 2:01:18
  Look after our kids and paid childcare is a great option.
• 2:01:23
  Perform a full time job and look after kids at the same time.
• 2:01:26
  And I know that there are families who are doing...
• 2:01:32
  So, I think Katie's question was, How are you feeling about the daycare transition?
• 2:01:37
  At this stage, Kristen, or how is that going?
• 2:01:47
  Kristen: The house is quiet and it is fabulous.
• 2:01:51
  And I, I am thankful I'm in a place now where I do not feel an inch of guilt
• 2:01:57
  in saying that because, um, yeah, the transition itself, I definitely First of
• 2:02:02
  all, we were very fortunate, um, to find paid childcare, um, in Ontario right now.
• 2:02:09
  It is very difficult, and I know in lots of other areas, it is very
• 2:02:13
  difficult to even find childcare.
• 2:02:16
  Um, and I made the mistake of, you know, oh, we'll just figure it out.
• 2:02:21
  Uh, once I've done school, and when I, uh, when I decide to go to school.
• 2:02:26
  And two, exactly.
• 2:02:28
  And I'm like, there is no frickin way I am driving one to
• 2:02:31
  one daycare and one to another.
• 2:02:33
  And so I needed to find two spots at the same time.
• 2:02:36
  Um, location, uh, to care for my children and basically give them all
• 2:02:41
  of our money that we'll ever earn.
• 2:02:44
  And so, um, yes, we are very fortunate to have found a provider.
• 2:02:49
  All of our licensed, um, programs, they, I think they basically
• 2:02:54
  laugh at you now to be like, Ha!
• 2:02:56
  You think you're good?
• 2:02:58
  The one was, um, it was a year and a half, uh, wait time, um, to, to get in.
• 2:03:04
  And I think that's actually on the shorter side, unfortunately.
• 2:03:08
  So, um, I was a little bit behind the eight ball, but, uh, we have found
• 2:03:13
  a provider, uh, for the twins, who, honestly, I am so incredibly thankful for.
• 2:03:20
  Uh, she is fantastic.
• 2:03:22
  And I have to say, I was a little...
• 2:03:25
  Bit freaked out before going, uh, to daycare and starting that transition.
• 2:03:29
  Cause I had heard, um, some horror stories from really close friends about
• 2:03:33
  how, you know, their kids just like.
• 2:03:37
  Really struggled sleep was an issue.
• 2:03:40
  Everything came back up.
• 2:03:41
  It was just like nightmarish.
• 2:03:43
  And so going into it, um, we did a little bit of a transition with our
• 2:03:46
  provider where we started out kind of like on a part time basis, but
• 2:03:50
  paying full time for the first month.
• 2:03:52
  So that was fun.
• 2:03:53
  Um, but, uh, just to kind of work the kids up to it because again, they've
• 2:03:58
  spent this whole first year with, you know, us as their primary caregivers and.
• 2:04:03
  Yeah.
• 2:04:03
  They'd had a couple, you know, sleepovers at my parents and whatnot,
• 2:04:06
  but pretty much with us most of the time, um, so let alone a stranger.
• 2:04:11
  So we brought them to daycare kind of one day, one week, two
• 2:04:15
  days the next, and yada, yada, yada, and so they've transitioned,
• 2:04:18
  uh, to full time care right now.
• 2:04:20
  Um, drop off is an absolute shitshow, huge tears, big emotions all the time.
• 2:04:26
  Even to the point now, we only live about, it's about a seven minute drive, thank
• 2:04:30
  God, from our house to, uh, our provider.
• 2:04:34
  Um, but now when I put my daughter in her car seat, she starts to
• 2:04:37
  do the little sniffle and I'm like, Ellie, don't you dare.
• 2:04:42
  So, we pump the music, we, you know, sing songs on this, on our seven minute drive
• 2:04:47
  to kind of like, get them all excited.
• 2:04:49
  And then I drop them off there, they scream their heads off and I leave.
• 2:04:52
  And, um, yeah, it's been, um, very good for myself, um, to have that break.
• 2:04:59
  And I didn't really...
• 2:05:02
  really anticipate how good it would feel.
• 2:05:05
  Um, because up until then it was typically, you know, people would come
• 2:05:10
  over and they'd watch the kids at the house and I would still be doing stuff.
• 2:05:12
  So they were always within the vicinity, right?
• 2:05:15
  Like I always could still hear them or I'd be, yeah, run out to the grocery
• 2:05:18
  store, do some errands, and then come home and they're still here.
• 2:05:21
  But actually being home without them here is like, The best treat ever.
• 2:05:27
  So.
• 2:05:28
  And it just feels like it's grown up time.
• 2:05:31
  Caite: Kristen, as a mom who works from home and has two kids who come home from
• 2:05:35
  daycare, Do you find that your anxiety spikes when the noise level goes back
• 2:05:40
  through the roof or are your kids not, I mean, two of them at a year old, I assume
• 2:05:44
  they're pretty damn loud by now, right?
• 2:05:47
  Because it took me the longest time to figure out why my anxiety went through
• 2:05:52
  the roof at five o'clock every night.
• 2:05:54
  And it's, yeah.
• 2:05:56
  Have you found any routines or anything that have made that transition easier?
• 2:06:03
  Sarah: Yeah.
• 2:06:04
  I'm legit asking for myself
• 2:06:06
  Caite: at this point.
• 2:06:06
  I definitely feel that.
• 2:06:06
  Because I'm still not really figured this out.
• 2:06:10
  And it's...
• 2:06:12
  Arlene: Yeah,
• 2:06:12
  Kristen: yeah.
• 2:06:13
  It is, it's hard to go from that, yeah, kind of like grown up quiet time to
• 2:06:18
  just like all out chaos in like the matter of a open the door and brrm, here
• 2:06:22
  they are, um, little hurricanes, um.
• 2:06:26
  The, what I've started doing, so my husband does pick up, um, at night,
• 2:06:30
  and, um, first of all, I send a snack with him in the car so that they're not
• 2:06:35
  hungry little gremlins when they get home because I don't know how much they've
• 2:06:38
  eaten throughout the day, like, you know, I can't control that, so I make
• 2:06:42
  sure they have a snack so they're not hangry when they get home, um, and, um,
• 2:06:47
  typically around that time I'm starting to kind of prep dinner, so I'm downstairs
• 2:06:51
  in our kitchen and living room area, and what I do Is just to kind of start
• 2:06:55
  to acclimatize myself to the volume as I turn the tv on and I just have like
• 2:06:59
  something playing in The background or turn the radio on and just kind of like
• 2:07:03
  try to like be moving around and whatnot and prepare myself Like okay, the kids
• 2:07:08
  are coming home uh, and you know just kind of like Start to increase the volume
• 2:07:13
  level so that when they do come in, it's not like brrrr, like zero to a hundred
• 2:07:19
  all in the matter of like a few seconds.
• 2:07:22
  Um, because it, that was a transition, especially before
• 2:07:26
  I figured out the snack trick.
• 2:07:28
  Um, was that they would come home and they would sit on the kitchen
• 2:07:33
  floor and just like scream and I'm like, Did you have a bad day?
• 2:07:37
  Are you hurt?
• 2:07:37
  Like, what's going on?
• 2:07:38
  Like, can I help you?
• 2:07:39
  Meanwhile, I've got like hot supper on the oven, like on the stovetop trying
• 2:07:43
  to figure that out and two screaming kids and my husband's You know bringing
• 2:07:46
  in all their shit from the day and I'm just like, oh my god, what is going on?
• 2:07:50
  That took a little bit of, you know, understanding like,
• 2:07:53
  oh, okay, you're hungry.
• 2:07:55
  Like, let's just make sure your basic needs are met Okay, let's, yeah, once
• 2:07:59
  we got that covered Um, that was okay.
• 2:08:02
  And we also, so my kids are still young enough now, um, that they do nap twice
• 2:08:07
  a day still, so, um, I've also found it, um, if I don't know how they've napped
• 2:08:12
  through the day, I don't know how to structure our nighttime routine, uh, to
• 2:08:17
  make sure that they're not overtired.
• 2:08:18
  And so, Sleep for me, throughout the whole twin, like throughout,
• 2:08:22
  since the twins were born, um, sleep has been a priority for them.
• 2:08:26
  Like, if they're not sleeping well, um, you know, figuring out their wake
• 2:08:30
  windows and all of that was really, um, something that I had no idea
• 2:08:34
  about before becoming a mom, but, uh, quickly read all of the, the blogs
• 2:08:39
  and the, the experts advice and stuff.
• 2:08:41
  And so, Part of managing my anxiety is understanding how their day
• 2:08:46
  has gone, have they had enough rest, have they eaten enough.
• 2:08:49
  Um, and then I can kind of tweak that nighttime routine to try to make it as
• 2:08:54
  enjoyable as possible for all of us.
• 2:08:56
  Because I don't want to deal with, you know, little gremlins at night
• 2:08:59
  because that just sets me off
• 2:09:01
  Caite: too.
• 2:09:02
  The other thing I've found that has been a huge help is those loop earplugs that
• 2:09:07
  just decrease the decibels by quite a bit.
• 2:09:10
  So, Because especially our kids still tend to take baths
• 2:09:14
  together, which is great, you know.
• 2:09:17
  And yes, they're a boy and a girl, but they're little.
• 2:09:19
  They don't care.
• 2:09:21
  Um, but we have a very small bathroom.
• 2:09:23
  And when they start screaming in there, it is...
• 2:09:25
  just
• 2:09:32
  noping out.
• 2:09:34
  And so the, the earplugs, huge.
• 2:09:37
  Um, Sarah, real quick.
• 2:09:40
  It says that Riverside, you have other tabs open with Riverside in them.
• 2:09:45
  It just wants you to, it just wants you to close other tabs.
• 2:09:52
  Ah, well, I guess I wouldn't worry about it then.
• 2:09:56
  If it wants something, it'll figure it out later.
• 2:09:59
  Whatever.
• 2:10:00
  It's fine.
• 2:10:04
  Yeah, I don't know how...
• 2:10:06
  I still have her.
• 2:10:08
  Sarah: I can't find the
• 2:10:09
  Caite: other tab.
• 2:10:10
  Maybe you're in her other tab, Arlene.
• 2:10:14
  Okay, so.
• 2:10:17
  I'm sorry.
• 2:10:20
  Oh, so Sarah, we did a baby shower episode with you.
• 2:10:26
  Was any of what we said helpful?
• 2:10:29
  And feel free to tell us no if it wasn't.
• 2:10:32
  Like, I'd rather not give people terrible advice.
• 2:10:48
  Kristen: Yes.
• 2:10:50
  Arlene: No, a lot of it.
• 2:10:54
  Sarah: A lot of it was super helpful.
• 2:10:56
  So, um, we had talked about, like, baby wearing.
• 2:11:00
  That was really helpful.
• 2:11:02
  Um, and either, like, stick to a schedule or read their cues.
• 2:11:07
  Kind of do both and figure out what works for you.
• 2:11:10
  And so, I, um, kind of, like, watched her cues and then that
• 2:11:14
  quickly worked into a pattern.
• 2:11:16
  So, I...
• 2:11:17
  Kristen: Like to say,
• 2:11:18
  Sarah: like, I'm not a schedule person, but we have a rhythm to our day, and
• 2:11:22
  it's pretty consistent day to day.
• 2:11:24
  Um, with that being said, also, like, doing a few different things every once
• 2:11:30
  in a while has been really helpful, too, because then, like, if she skips
• 2:11:34
  a nap, we skip a meal, we eat early, we eat late, it's kind of no big deal.
• 2:11:38
  She's good with some change, and I think that that's good, too, because, um...
• 2:11:42
  My, my sister is one who like hates a change in the schedule and like, I
• 2:11:48
  need kids who are going to be flexible.
• 2:11:50
  So, um, that was really good advice.
• 2:11:53
  Um, somebody had said, um, uh, to keep your vacuum
• 2:11:59
  Kristen: in the living room.
• 2:12:00
  Then you can say, Oh, it's just going to vacuum.
• 2:12:02
  Sarah: That is solid.
• 2:12:04
  solid advice.
• 2:12:06
  Um, crabs need water, right?
• 2:12:08
  Like
• 2:12:08
  Kristen: if they're crabby, take them outside or put them in the bathtub.
• 2:12:11
  Still do that.
• 2:12:12
  Sarah: That is that is a great, great advice.
• 2:12:16
  Um, somebody said to give them
• 2:12:18
  Kristen: a bottle every once in a while.
• 2:12:20
  Sarah: So that way they will, um, take a bottle like when you have to leave.
• 2:12:24
  And that was again really helpful.
• 2:12:26
  I started Leaving her, um, just for like a couple hours at a time pretty early.
• 2:12:33
  And so that was really helpful too.
• 2:12:34
  Then she would take a bottle and, um, that turned out to be really,
• 2:12:39
  really great because then there was no like hesitation for her.
• 2:12:43
  Um, also I tried, I kind of got her.
• 2:12:46
  on like one different kind of bottle, but then switch.
• 2:12:49
  So she would take like multiple different, um, types of bottles,
• 2:12:53
  nipples, temperature of milk, which was really helpful to just to get her used
• 2:12:58
  to a little bit of change in variety.
• 2:13:00
  So, um, yeah, that was, there was a
• 2:13:02
  Kristen: lot of great advice in there.
• 2:13:04
  A lot
• 2:13:04
  Sarah: of helpful, helpful tidbits.
• 2:13:12
  Of course.
• 2:13:14
  No, all the time.
• 2:13:15
  You
• 2:13:15
  Caite: saw all the time.
• 2:13:16
  I'm glad that we said something useful.
• 2:13:18
  Or that other people said something useful, I guess.
• 2:13:21
  I know, you know, I mean, there are kids who are less able to hang, just like
• 2:13:29
  there are adults who are less flexible, but I do think that anything you can do
• 2:13:33
  to encourage any and all members of your family to be even slightly more chill.
• 2:13:41
  than they are naturally, as someone who is not chill by nature, um, is helpful.
• 2:13:49
  So, for both of you, what's been the best part so far?
• 2:13:52
  I
• 2:13:52
  Sarah: think watching her discover new things is so much fun.
• 2:13:58
  So much fun.
• 2:13:59
  Like, just like, the first time I put her in the grass, it was like, warm, the
• 2:14:05
  snow had melted, and watching her like, discover grass, and Sunshine, not like
• 2:14:12
  discover sunshine, but like just feel like
• 2:14:15
  Kristen: warmth outside and
• 2:14:16
  Sarah: discover grass and like look at flowers.
• 2:14:19
  Kristen: I took her to the butterfly
• 2:14:20
  Sarah: house and like just to watch her amazement looking at all the
• 2:14:25
  butterflies is really, really cool.
• 2:14:27
  And I remind myself often that like I have to slow down in order to catch
• 2:14:32
  those moments, but it's so worth it.
• 2:14:36
  So do it.
• 2:14:37
  Slow down, catch those moments, and be sure to keep that a priority,
• 2:14:42
  because there might be 400 million in a day, and that can get annoying,
• 2:14:47
  but also, um, you know, I think that that is, that's what it's all about.
• 2:14:52
  And so that's been really my favorite
• 2:14:55
  Kristen: part, I think.
• 2:14:56
  Amazing.
• 2:14:57
  Yeah, I guess for me, um, having the twins, um, you know, I, I joked earlier
• 2:15:02
  on, uh, that it's a bit of a psychology experiment having two kids at once.
• 2:15:07
  Um, but really watching their bond, um, has been something that's been
• 2:15:13
  really special for me as a mom.
• 2:15:15
  Um, and also as someone who grew up with a big family.
• 2:15:18
  Um, this is the end of our family.
• 2:15:20
  We are not planning to have any more kids.
• 2:15:22
  Um, we're, you know, one in, one and done, one pregnancy and two kids and done.
• 2:15:27
  Um, but really watching them, um, kind of discover each other, see
• 2:15:32
  their differences at the same time.
• 2:15:35
  And then getting to be a kid again, like getting to play.
• 2:15:38
  I think as adults, we don't, you know, you, you reach a certain age and you
• 2:15:43
  just kind of, you know, you don't get that childish, um, excitement
• 2:15:48
  anymore in life and you just are so focused on the realities of life
• 2:15:53
  because yes, we have to be, but.
• 2:15:56
  You know, the times when we just get to play with our kids and sometimes,
• 2:16:00
  you know, going to the park.
• 2:16:01
  Um, we went to the park on the weekend and as a kid that was not something on the
• 2:16:05
  farm that we ever did because we stayed on the farm because there was work to do,
• 2:16:09
  you could play on the farm, you did that.
• 2:16:11
  Um, but just really, you know, getting to go to a park with your kids,
• 2:16:14
  um, that's something that's really special that I didn't anticipate but
• 2:16:18
  that really are those small moments that Sarah said that happened so
• 2:16:22
  many times in a day that pausing and just Feeling that gratitude and that
• 2:16:27
  gratefulness has really given me a lot of, of good feelings about parenting.
• 2:16:42
  Arlene: I find the unmute on this program takes so much longer.
• 2:16:45
  Anyway, so I'm stealing Katie's usual question, but I switched it up since
• 2:16:48
  we already asked both of you what you would dominate at the county fair.
• 2:16:53
  I'm now going to ask, say it's like the baby show or, you
• 2:16:57
  know, like the junior category.
• 2:16:59
  Sarah, what would your baby dominate at the county fair?
• 2:17:07
  Sarah: Um, 100 percent a cat show, okay?
• 2:17:13
  This kid loves a cat.
• 2:17:15
  And I remember my sister showed a cat at the county fair, and we
• 2:17:19
  were all kind of like, how do you show a cat, like, what is this all
• 2:17:23
  Kristen: about?
• 2:17:23
  And you like, Pet its fur backward, pet its fur, er, pet its fur the right
• 2:17:27
  way, pet its fur the wrong way, stretch out its belly, stretch out its tail.
• 2:17:32
  Scout's got that dumb pat.
• 2:17:33
  Like, her and the cat just cuddle and snuggle, and she's
• 2:17:37
  constantly, like, messing up its fur and then petting it back down.
• 2:17:40
  Messing up its fur, petting
• 2:17:41
  Sarah: it back down.
• 2:17:42
  So, um, she would, she would be the cat show, cat show girl.
• 2:17:46
  Not sure, uh,
• 2:17:47
  Kristen: she would be very good
• 2:17:49
  Sarah: at the cat show, um, but she's...
• 2:17:52
  Kristen: All about, all
• 2:17:53
  Arlene: about the cat.
• 2:17:56
  That is great.
• 2:17:57
  And then she'd be around other cats, too, so she'd be in her glory.
• 2:18:01
  Yeah, 100%.
• 2:18:04
  So, Kristen, what are your, what are your babies going to, uh, dominate?
• 2:18:11
  Kristen: Yeah, so the twins, um, they're both very, very different.
• 2:18:15
  So being a boy and a girl, it's amazing how you can start to see the
• 2:18:18
  differences in gender so early on, um, with like very little input, right?
• 2:18:23
  Like I, that's something that's also kind of amazed me.
• 2:18:25
  Um, but for Ellie, for our girl, um, she is just the spiciest little thing in life.
• 2:18:32
  And so I think she would just.
• 2:18:34
  Yeah, she's got lots of attitude, um, is not afraid to just like
• 2:18:40
  let all of her emotions out.
• 2:18:42
  Um, so definitely if there was a category, a 4 H category for
• 2:18:46
  spiciness, I think that's her to a T.
• 2:18:49
  Um, and I really hope, um, being a woman, That she takes that with her in
• 2:18:55
  life and that it does not get muted in life because I know so many times We are
• 2:19:00
  influenced by society and all of those pressures as women um that If I do one
• 2:19:06
  thing right as a mother, I hope that I foster and nurture that characteristic
• 2:19:10
  within her Um, our little boy Knox.
• 2:19:13
  He is just such a little tinkerer and curious mind Very similar
• 2:19:19
  to my husband, uh in that way.
• 2:19:22
  And so I can just see him like He's just so interested in how things are, you
• 2:19:28
  know, how things work, and figuring it out, and taking things apart, and putting
• 2:19:32
  it back together, and you can kind of just see like the little gears working
• 2:19:35
  in his, in his brain, and so whatever that, you know, that Um, I'm just like,
• 2:19:40
  Manifest in him in terms of his passions and his, uh, and his, uh, desires in life.
• 2:19:46
  I hope that that kind of takes him forward.
• 2:19:49
  Um, and as parents, we, my husband and I, talk a lot about, um, trying
• 2:19:54
  not to impose, you know, our love and hobbies and whatnot onto our children.
• 2:19:58
  And I think, In agriculture, you know, we want our kids to be like, Oh, we want
• 2:20:01
  them to farm and all of this so much.
• 2:20:02
  So, um, but, we really, we talk very openly about trying to give
• 2:20:08
  them other experiences other than, you know, what we want them to do.
• 2:20:13
  Um, and so, as a parent, I just really hope to Um, and to facilitate
• 2:20:17
  that and to, to let them grow and find their own passions in life.
• 2:20:21
  That's a
• 2:20:21
  Arlene: hard one, right?
• 2:20:22
  Because it's like, oh, they're so cute and they would be so cute
• 2:20:24
  doing this thing that I love and then we could enjoy it together.
• 2:20:27
  But yeah, fostering what they really love too is a hard balance as they get older.
• 2:20:33
  Um, before I move into our cussing and discussing section, I just didn't know
• 2:20:36
  if either of you had any other, um, Reflections on listening back to your
• 2:20:40
  episodes or things that you, uh, laughed at yourself for saying, or anything
• 2:20:45
  else you wanted to comment on before we move into the, to wrapping up the show.
• 2:20:51
  Sarah, was there anything?
• 2:20:52
  The
• 2:20:52
  Sarah: only thing is, I think that it remains important to laugh at ourselves
• 2:20:56
  and how we thought things would be.
• 2:21:03
  Arlene: Yeah.
• 2:21:05
  Kristen: I would definitely, yeah, echo that.
• 2:21:08
  Absolutely.
• 2:21:09
  You know, you think things are going to go one way and if becoming a
• 2:21:12
  parent has taught you anything, it's going to be the complete 180 to that.
• 2:21:16
  I would absolutely echo your sentiments there, Sarah.
• 2:21:23
  Arlene: And I, I even, uh, I didn't include it with the questions here
• 2:21:26
  because we've been, we've been talking a lot, but there was, I quoted
• 2:21:29
  Katie, I think it was in Kristen's episode saying, nothing will go how
• 2:21:33
  you expected, but it'll all be fine.
• 2:21:35
  So that's kind of the summary of today, right?
• 2:21:39
  Nothing went exactly as you expected, but it was.
• 2:21:42
  It was still fine.
• 2:21:44
  So we'll go into our usual Cussing and Discussing segment.
• 2:21:47
  So for listeners, if you want to submit yours, go to the show notes and go to
• 2:21:50
  our speak pipe or the email, and you can send us your Cussing and Discussing.
• 2:21:54
  Katie, do you want to start?
• 2:21:56
  What's your Cussing and Discussing for today?
• 2:22:00
  Caite: I will, and this is actually my parenting advice for you guys for the
• 2:22:04
  next, well until next year when we do this again and talk about all the things
• 2:22:08
  that have been bizarre in the last year.
• 2:22:10
  Second year.
• 2:22:11
  There will come a day.
• 2:22:13
  Yeah, there will come a day when you will have the perfect gift for your
• 2:22:18
  child, or the perfect experience.
• 2:22:21
  You will have come up with something that is like the manifestation
• 2:22:26
  of everything that is right and good in your child's world.
• 2:22:30
  And you will be so excited, and you will give it to them.
• 2:22:35
  And they will not give a flying fuck.
• 2:22:38
  About whatever this thing is.
• 2:22:40
  No matter how I could bring home a live unicorn at this point and feel
• 2:22:45
  fairly sure that the girl child would go, I wanted a pink one.
• 2:22:50
  And it's not even being bratty, which is what I grew up thinking it was.
• 2:22:56
  But that they have such a strong mind about what is the right thing
• 2:23:01
  to do and the right way to do it.
• 2:23:05
  The Any deviation from that just, it's close but it's not good enough.
• 2:23:12
  And I know like we all joke about kids playing with the box instead
• 2:23:15
  of with the toy and that's, that's like the first step.
• 2:23:18
  But then they will just, I'm trying to remember what it was that I brought
• 2:23:22
  one of the kids last week, just so sure that it would like, lead to a
• 2:23:28
  tearful meltdown of gratitude for my bringing them into a world so perfect
• 2:23:34
  that this this experience would exist in it and my kid was just like oh
• 2:23:40
  Arlene: Yeah, or you take them, yeah, you take them somewhere
• 2:23:42
  and they've had a fantastic day, but they drop their ice cream and
• 2:23:47
  that's the only thing they remember.
• 2:23:49
  Like you've, you had, you had almost the perfect experience, even if,
• 2:23:53
  you know, you brought them somewhere and it was, it was the thing you had
• 2:23:57
  the experience you wanted, but the only thing they remember is that bad
• 2:24:00
  moment where they dropped something or somebody stepped on their toe or, you
• 2:24:04
  know, the, the animal at the zoo that they wanted to see turn the wrong way.
• 2:24:08
  And it's.
• 2:24:08
  It's like, could we, like, can we focus on the other things,
• 2:24:12
  but, but sometimes we as adults
• 2:24:14
  Caite: do the same, I think a lot of my, my cussing about it is that
• 2:24:19
  it brings out the most, there are starving children in Africa who would
• 2:24:24
  love to have this toy unicorn thing in myself, you know, that's just like, I
• 2:24:32
  Arlene: know better than you.
• 2:24:33
  Yeah, because that doesn't make
• 2:24:35
  Caite: them feel more grateful.
• 2:24:36
  No, it just makes them mad.
• 2:24:38
  Which...
• 2:24:41
  Anyway, um, Sarah, what do you have to discuss
• 2:24:44
  Sarah: this week?
• 2:24:45
  There is something getting into my chicken coop, and I don't know what it is.
• 2:24:48
  They have killed 11 chickens over the last 3 days, and I keep, like,
• 2:24:52
  fortifying it more and more every day.
• 2:24:56
  And every day there's just more dead chickens, and it just, I just don't know
• 2:24:59
  what to do, and I can't figure out how they're getting in, and I just want to,
• 2:25:05
  like, hook up a 12 volt battery to the...
• 2:25:11
  I don't know, I don't, for the life of me, cannot figure out what to do.
• 2:25:15
  We've put cameras up, the cameras don't catch anything, and we have like
• 2:25:21
  green kind of around the chicken coop, so the cameras can't actually see
• 2:25:25
  into the chicken coop, so I think I need to move my cameras, but uh, it's
• 2:25:30
  something weird, I don't know what it is.
• 2:25:33
  We, I thought it was a big raccoon underneath of it, underneath, like, the
• 2:25:37
  house that could go up into the run.
• 2:25:39
  Um, but I blocked that off and I still have dead chickens, so I don't know.
• 2:25:44
  I don't know what it
• 2:25:45
  Kristen: is and it's
• 2:25:46
  Sarah: driving me crazy!
• 2:25:49
  Caite: What, uh, what kind of damage are they doing, Sarah?
• 2:25:52
  So,
• 2:25:53
  Sarah: sometimes the heads are ripped off and sometimes not.
• 2:25:56
  Sometimes the guts are eaten out and sometimes not.
• 2:25:59
  They're sometimes ripped apart.
• 2:26:02
  Um, like...
• 2:26:03
  Leg over here, body over here, but not always.
• 2:26:07
  Um, they have eaten, um, quite a bit of the meat.
• 2:26:13
  But then also, like, I have probably close to 15 that I just
• 2:26:17
  have no idea where they're at.
• 2:26:19
  So that made me think that they're pulling it under the
• 2:26:22
  coop, that I, like, can't get to.
• 2:26:25
  So, yesterday we put a smoke bomb under the coop, and like...
• 2:26:29
  Nothing came out.
• 2:26:30
  So, then I fenced in underneath the coop and put rocks all the way around it.
• 2:26:36
  So, like, if there's something getting in under there, like,
• 2:26:39
  they're stuck under there now.
• 2:26:41
  But then there were still dead ones this morning.
• 2:26:43
  So, I don't know.
• 2:26:45
  We caught a raccoon and a possum in the last two days.
• 2:26:50
  Or, like, two days ago and three days ago, but then this morning
• 2:26:54
  there were still dead ones.
• 2:26:54
  So, like, there's something
• 2:26:56
  Kristen: else.
• 2:26:57
  Something else going on in there.
• 2:27:00
  Caite: So, here's my, my three thoughts on this.
• 2:27:04
  This has just become an advice segment instead.
• 2:27:07
  One, I was having a similar issue.
• 2:27:09
  I put those long electric fence insulators, those like four inch ones,
• 2:27:14
  with wire about six inches off the ground and hooked it up to a two mile battery.
• 2:27:19
  Uh, that'll slow down anything bigger by a lot.
• 2:27:24
  Two, it's entirely possible that you have a weasel that's killing them
• 2:27:28
  and a raccoon that's eating them.
• 2:27:30
  Um.
• 2:27:31
  Because weasels can get in anywhere, but raccoons do a lot more physical damage.
• 2:27:36
  And three, join the Barnyard Language Facebook group.
• 2:27:40
  And go ask Ryan Marquart because Ryan will tell you more about ways that chickens
• 2:27:46
  can die than you ever wanted to know.
• 2:27:48
  He's a high school friend who has apparently made quite a study
• 2:27:53
  of things that kill chickens and he has excellent advice.
• 2:27:57
  And for anyone else who, uh, needs advice on dead chickens.
• 2:28:01
  Or parenting.
• 2:28:01
  Or really anything else.
• 2:28:02
  You should also go to a chicken stand parent.
• 2:28:04
  Or parenting.
• 2:28:06
  Sarah: I will do all three of those.
• 2:28:08
  So, thank you, Katie, for that.
• 2:28:10
  Tidbit of knowledge.
• 2:28:11
  Interesting that it could be two things.
• 2:28:12
  Because, yeah, sometimes the heads are off.
• 2:28:15
  So that made me think it was like a weasel or a mink or something like that.
• 2:28:18
  Um, but not always, you know.
• 2:28:23
  Arlene: So, Kristen, do you have any non chicken related questions?
• 2:28:26
  I
• 2:28:26
  Kristen: do.
• 2:28:27
  We do not own any chickens.
• 2:28:28
  Um, but, uh.
• 2:28:31
  We are battling the, um, onset of another teething phase with the twins.
• 2:28:38
  So that has been a fucking nightmare.
• 2:28:42
  We went through a really good So my son has eight teeth, and my daughter has six,
• 2:28:47
  and now she's gotten some more bottom ones, and I'm like, oh my fucking god.
• 2:28:52
  Yeah, she is I say I love her spiciness, but it's also, like, can be, like I
• 2:29:00
  don't want to call her dramatic because I don't like that, um, descriptor of women,
• 2:29:04
  but she like, you know, notches it up.
• 2:29:07
  She lets
• 2:29:07
  Arlene: you know how she feels, yeah.
• 2:29:09
  Kristen: Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 2:29:11
  Which, I mean, in all fairness...
• 2:29:13
  Getting teeth is not a fun thing for anybody.
• 2:29:16
  Like, I do not blame her for that.
• 2:29:18
  She did not choose to not be born with teeth and then get them,
• 2:29:21
  you know, pushed into her mouth.
• 2:29:23
  Um, whoever decided that this was how kids should have, should get teeth and
• 2:29:27
  then fall out and then get some more, I really want to set up a meeting with
• 2:29:31
  them and have, have a little discussion.
• 2:29:34
  Um, because it is just a nightmare for everyone.
• 2:29:37
  There's so
• 2:29:38
  Arlene: much drama about, around teeth for so many years.
• 2:29:41
  Because then they finally get them all and then they start to lose them and then
• 2:29:45
  there's all the drama of like, Oh, well, I can't eat because I have a wiggly tooth.
• 2:29:48
  No, you can't brush my teeth because I have a wiggly tooth.
• 2:29:51
  And then I lost my tooth and the Tooth Fairy forgot three nights in a row.
• 2:29:55
  Kristen: Which is the finest.
• 2:29:57
  Yeah, and then, like, God forbid,
• 2:29:59
  Caite: like.
• 2:30:00
  Our Tooth Fairy finally just bought toys, Arlene.
• 2:30:04
  The Tooth Fairy said, I don't want you to have to hold on to this loose
• 2:30:08
  money, so I'm just gonna buy some toys and that'll be your Tooth Fairy money.
• 2:30:11
  So
• 2:30:11
  Arlene: like one toy and then they're done for all the rest of their teeth?
• 2:30:17
  Brilliant.
• 2:30:19
  See, that's
• 2:30:19
  Kristen: the thing, because the teeth last forever.
• 2:30:21
  I've got
• 2:30:22
  Arlene: four kids multiplied by however many teeth fall out, right?
• 2:30:26
  So it's just like, you never know when someone's, and as they get older,
• 2:30:29
  they don't always tell you or complain about the loose teeth, which is great.
• 2:30:33
  But then I've got an older kid who loses a tooth and then I still feel
• 2:30:37
  like I need to give them money so that the younger one still believes.
• 2:30:40
  So then it's like, yeah, Oh, by the way, there's a tooth.
• 2:30:43
  I left it on the counter.
• 2:30:44
  I have taken the teeth out of the bedroom.
• 2:30:46
  There's no sneaking into bedrooms.
• 2:30:47
  The teeth in our house go on the, go on the kitchen counter behind
• 2:30:50
  the sink, and that's where the tooth fairy leaves money because
• 2:30:53
  I'm not sneaking into anyone's room.
• 2:30:56
  Kristen: That is, I'm gonna take that and hide that in my back pocket.
• 2:30:59
  That's smart.
• 2:31:00
  Arlene: Don't talk about pillows or anything in the bedroom.
• 2:31:03
  Yeah, it doesn't, the tooth fairy can just come right in any part of the house.
• 2:31:08
  Love it.
• 2:31:09
  So, I guess mine is Tooth Fairies, but my other cussing
• 2:31:12
  and disgusting was Oh, sorry.
• 2:31:18
  Caite: That's alright.
• 2:31:18
  You were going to think as much as I hate sneaking into the kids rooms.
• 2:31:24
  I feel like this is my secret shame as a big, tough farm mom.
• 2:31:28
  I am so grossed out by fingernail clippings, hair clippings, and
• 2:31:33
  teeth that the idea of finding teeth on my kitchen counter...
• 2:31:41
  I kind of want to die just thinking about it.
• 2:31:44
  Arlene: I've got one there right now, want to come over?
• 2:31:47
  I don't...
• 2:31:47
  Gah!
• 2:31:47
  She's trying to
• 2:31:50
  Kristen: make her gag.
• 2:31:51
  You could make it a
• 2:31:52
  Sarah: bathroom counter or like, uh,
• 2:31:54
  Kristen: the shop sink or something like that.
• 2:31:57
  There's been gross
• 2:31:58
  Arlene: things.
• 2:31:59
  Yeah, there's gross things in my kitchen a lot of the time.
• 2:32:03
  So you wouldn't be one of those people that makes that like old,
• 2:32:05
  like, you've seen those like gross pictures of like tooth jewelry,
• 2:32:08
  you know, like that people made.
• 2:32:14
  Now everyone's gagging.
• 2:32:16
  Caite: I read a, I read a book a few years ago by the same author who wrote Gone
• 2:32:20
  Girl that involves dollhouse decorated teeth, and I just Did you stop reading?
• 2:32:26
  Yeah!
• 2:32:27
  No, see?
• 2:32:28
  See, there's not gonna be any, I was probably fine with teeth.
• 2:32:32
  That's that.
• 2:32:33
  Kristen: That's, yeah.
• 2:32:34
  That's gross.
• 2:32:35
  Oh, man.
• 2:32:35
  Well, Katie, I do have a, as as kids, kids on the dairy farm, we used to, when
• 2:32:40
  we were like little tots and uh, would play in like the feed bunk and stuff
• 2:32:44
  like that, we would often find cow teeth.
• 2:32:46
  The cow
• 2:32:46
  Arlene: teeth.
• 2:32:47
  Yeah.
• 2:32:47
  Bring em to school.
• 2:32:48
  Kristen: Bring.
• 2:32:49
  We would bring them in the house and my mom would find them and now thinking about
• 2:32:54
  it, it totally, like, grosses me out, but we thought it was the coolest thing
• 2:32:57
  ever because they were massive teeth.
• 2:33:01
  Yeah, they're so big.
• 2:33:01
  Like a dinosaur, but yeah, the thought of it now, if my children do
• 2:33:06
  that, I, that, I am stopping that.
• 2:33:11
  Caite: I'll say it.
• 2:33:12
  I have a shed snake skin in the middle of our dining room table right now.
• 2:33:15
  I have a mummified bat in the china cabinet.
• 2:33:17
  Like, animal teeth?
• 2:33:19
  Fine.
• 2:33:19
  It's just humans.
• 2:33:21
  Arlene: Okay, so, but you can't handle the kid tooth in your
• 2:33:24
  Caite: kitchen.
• 2:33:25
  Humans, man.
• 2:33:27
  Humans.
• 2:33:33
  Arlene: So the one I was actually thinking of during our multi hour long
• 2:33:37
  conversation was that I love doing this podcast because we get to meet so many
• 2:33:43
  amazing people, but we live too far apart and I want this conversation to like
• 2:33:47
  extend over like dinner and maybe a glass of wine and to not have to drive all the
• 2:33:53
  way to Michigan to meet Sarah someday.
• 2:33:54
  But anyway, I just want to thank you both ladies for joining us.
• 2:33:59
  today and for being so open and honest and these are exactly the kinds
• 2:34:03
  of conversations that we wanted to have when we started this podcast.
• 2:34:07
  So thank you for coming back and thank you for supporting us and
• 2:34:11
  building community and being honest about the way the journey is.
• 2:34:16
  going.
• 2:34:16
  And Sarah, do you want to just remind people where they can find you?
• 2:34:20
  Because you also have a podcast that people can listen to.
• 2:34:23
  Absolutely.
• 2:34:23
  First off,
• 2:34:24
  Sarah: thank you guys for having me.
• 2:34:25
  This has been so much fun.
• 2:34:26
  If you ever are in Michigan, look me up and I'll do the same
• 2:34:30
  if I'm up toward your direction.
• 2:34:32
  Um, so thank you guys.
• 2:34:33
  My podcast is
• 2:34:34
  Kristen: called throwing wrenches,
• 2:34:36
  Sarah: mending fences, and you can follow me on social media, Facebook, Instagram,
• 2:34:41
  all the places, um, at the same name.
• 2:34:43
  So throwing wrenches, mending fences.
• 2:34:46
  And again, thank you guys.
• 2:34:47
  This has been so much fun.
• 2:34:48
  And Kristen, it's been fun to
• 2:34:50
  Kristen: chat about our babes.
• 2:34:53
  Arlene: Yes.
• 2:34:54
  And, uh, Sarah actually does some pretty funny stuff on TikTok.
• 2:34:57
  I'm not a huge, uh, Katie and I have failed miserably on doing anything on
• 2:35:03
  Tik Tok, um, but Sarah is hilarious.
• 2:35:05
  And so you should definitely follow her there and all the other places.
• 2:35:08
  Um, Kristen, if people want to get in touch with you,
• 2:35:11
  where should they find you?
• 2:35:13
  Yeah,
• 2:35:13
  Kristen: for sure.
• 2:35:13
  I just also just want to say a huge thank you to both of you.
• 2:35:16
  And also congratulations.
• 2:35:19
  Like.
• 2:35:19
  What an amazing thing that you're continuing to do this.
• 2:35:22
  I think that this is such an amazing community that you've built.
• 2:35:26
  I love, uh, tuning in and connecting with all kinds of diversity.
• 2:35:30
  Like, I think you guys just do such a good job of covering a vast, um, array of
• 2:35:37
  topics and featuring people that really are the stories that need to be heard.
• 2:35:43
  Um, so thank you so much for that and thank you for the
• 2:35:46
  opportunity to join you again.
• 2:35:47
  It's been a pleasure.
• 2:35:48
  Um, I am mostly an Instagram, uh, user these days, uh, so you can find me, just
• 2:35:54
  my name, Kristen Kelderman, um, over there and, um, yeah, just kind of focusing on
• 2:35:59
  mental health, but also sharing some of those parenting struggles along the way
• 2:36:02
  and, uh, some cute pics of my dog as well.
• 2:36:05
  So that's where I am.
• 2:36:07
  Arlene: Thank you both so much.
• 2:36:08
  This was a great conversation and, uh, yeah, like Katie said, maybe
• 2:36:12
  we'll meet up again in a year.
• 2:36:14
  Caite: Thank you for joining us on Barnyard Language.
• 2:36:16
  If you enjoy the show, we encourage you to support us by becoming a patron.
• 2:36:20
  Go to www.
• 2:36:22
  patreon.
• 2:36:22
  com backslash barnyard language to make a small monthly donation to help
• 2:36:26
  cover the costs of making the show.
• 2:36:28
  Arlene: Please rate and review the podcast and follow the show
• 2:36:31
  so you never miss an episode.
• 2:36:34
  Caite: You can find us on Facebook, as Barnyard Language
• 2:36:38
  and on Twitter we are BarnyardPod.
• 2:36:40
  If you want to connect with other farming families, you can join our
• 2:36:42
  private Barnyard Language Facebook group.
• 2:36:45
  Arlene: We are always in search of guests for the podcast.
• 2:36:48
  If you or someone you know would like to chat with us, please get in touch.
• 2:36:51
  We are a proud member of the Positively Farming Media Podcast Network.
• 2:37:01
  Caite: Thank you for joining us on Barnyard Language.
• 2:37:03
  If you enjoy this show, we encourage you to support us by becoming a patron.
• 2:37:07
  Go to www.
• 2:37:09
  patreon.
• 2:37:10
  com backslash barnyard language to make a small monthly donation to help
• 2:37:13
  cover the costs of making this show.
• 2:37:16
  Arlene: Please rate and review the podcast and follow the show so you never miss an
• 2:37:19
  Caite: episode.
• 2:37:21
  You can find us on Facebook, as Barnyard Language and on
• 2:37:25
  Twitter we are BarnyardPod.
• 2:37:27
  If you want to connect with other farming families, you can join our
• 2:37:30
  private Barnyard Language Facebook group.
• 2:37:32
  Arlene: We are always in search of guests for the podcast.
• 2:37:35
  If you or someone you know would like to chat with us, please get in touch.
• 2:37:38
  We are a proud member of the Positively Farming Media Podcast Network.