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Jags Media Roundtable: Heilman, Long · The Jacksonville Jaguars Official Podcast Network

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome into another Jaguars media round table. We're going into
0:03
Speaker 1: week five the Jags in the Carolina Panthers coming up
0:06
Speaker 1: Sunday at one o'clock at Bank of America Stadium in
0:08
Speaker 1: Uptown Charlotte. J P. Shadick with Mark Long of the
0:11
Speaker 1: Associated Press. What's up? I can't believe it took five
0:14
Speaker 1: weeks from me. Get on your podcast. That tells you
0:17
Speaker 1: where I am at the total point. Not during the
0:19
Speaker 1: regular season this year, we have been doing them every week.
0:22
Speaker 1: So let's just say, let's just say if you did
0:24
Speaker 1: them every week this four times two, that's eight people.
0:28
Speaker 1: So I'm ninth on your batting order, yeah, or Phil's
0:31
Speaker 1: ninth and I'm tent. Well he did ask me first,
0:34
Speaker 1: all right, so I'm I'm I'm ninth, all right, Piling
0:37
Speaker 1: of the Athletic Thanks for coming back. Phil. I'm not
0:41
Speaker 1: gonna complain. I'm happy to be here. Unlike Mark complains
0:44
Speaker 1: about everything, everything, literally everything, it's tongue in cheek complaints.
0:49
Speaker 1: One thing you cannot complain about right now is Leonard
0:52
Speaker 1: for Nett. The way he's playing, the way he's acting
0:55
Speaker 1: off the field. Um, everything's come together, at least so
0:59
Speaker 1: far early in this he's and it broke out of
1:01
Speaker 1: course last week in Denver with the fantastic second half performance,
1:05
Speaker 1: but just week to week dealing with him in the
1:07
Speaker 1: locker room talking to him, this is a totally different guy.
1:11
Speaker 1: It seems like the last year. Yeah, people don't get
1:13
Speaker 1: to see him in the locker room, but that we do.
1:15
Speaker 1: And it's kind of been one of the big uh
1:18
Speaker 1: Knox on Leonard is you know, he's just his His
1:22
Speaker 1: give a blank factor has been next to nothing. He
1:26
Speaker 1: just doesn't didn't never seem to until this year care
1:30
Speaker 1: about us and the job we have to do or
1:33
Speaker 1: the people around him. He was just kind of oblivious
1:35
Speaker 1: to it all. And some of it you wrote it
1:36
Speaker 1: off as as that's Leonard. You know, he's this fun
1:40
Speaker 1: loving guy who makes a lot of jokes and and
1:43
Speaker 1: his the teammates love him, but he doesn't care about
1:46
Speaker 1: anything else outside of you know, football and his family
1:49
Speaker 1: and you know, and and his team. Uh so you
1:52
Speaker 1: kind of wrote up. But this year you've seen a
1:54
Speaker 1: complete one eighty from him and about face in terms
1:57
Speaker 1: of the way he approaches his job. It's just it's
2:01
Speaker 1: you can say maturity all day. I like to point
2:05
Speaker 1: to professionalism. He just looks like a professional. And that's
2:08
Speaker 1: been the knock on him is that he wasn't much
2:10
Speaker 1: of a pro. He was showing up late, falling asleep,
2:13
Speaker 1: and meetings on his cell phone, all these things you
2:16
Speaker 1: heard about not knowing the playbook. It's complete opposite. Now
2:20
Speaker 1: you look out there and you don't see Gardner Minshew
2:22
Speaker 1: having to put him in position every down, you know,
2:26
Speaker 1: And I think the real growth was the end of
2:29
Speaker 1: the game in Denver was unreal. Here's a guy who
2:33
Speaker 1: is playing Peacemaker with Cam Robinson trying. You know, he's
2:36
Speaker 1: he is yelling at Cam, but he's getting He's trying
2:39
Speaker 1: to get Cam to calm down and stop trying to
2:41
Speaker 1: go after guys. Before he would have been the one
2:44
Speaker 1: going after guys. He would have been the one, Hey,
2:46
Speaker 1: let's go, let's get in. He would have been involved.
2:48
Speaker 1: Now for him to see Peacemaker go back three weeks
2:51
Speaker 1: ago with the Doug Marone, Jalen Ramsey spat Leonard Fornette's
2:55
Speaker 1: role in that was he was the guy who came
2:56
Speaker 1: up behind Doug Maron and wasn't screaming at Doug, grabbed
3:00
Speaker 1: Doug and tried to help him get away from the situation. So,
3:04
Speaker 1: you know, whatever, you have to call it, maturity, uh, professionalism.
3:08
Speaker 1: You wonder where where you hope that it it's manifested
3:12
Speaker 1: from a place where he's growing up. But it might
3:15
Speaker 1: also be because the Jags have just pounding him down
3:18
Speaker 1: to the point where he realized it's tew or die
3:20
Speaker 1: at this point, because I mean a few years in though, Phil,
3:22
Speaker 1: I mean, at some point, the performance hasn't been there.
3:25
Speaker 1: He's been banged up, he's had some off the field issues.
3:27
Speaker 1: I mean, the clock's taken a little bit for his
3:29
Speaker 1: contract round here, right, I mean, at some point he's
3:31
Speaker 1: got to turn it around, and maybe this is the
3:33
Speaker 1: turning point. Yeah, I mean I think the Clocks struck
3:35
Speaker 1: midnight on his contract. I mean they took away his
3:38
Speaker 1: remaining guarantees on his rookie contract. And Leonard knows that,
3:41
Speaker 1: he recognizes and he has to that one more misstep
3:46
Speaker 1: could have resulted and being cut and having a lot
3:49
Speaker 1: of money taken not taken away from him, but you know,
3:52
Speaker 1: not coming into his bank account over the next couple
3:54
Speaker 1: of years. So yeah, it would be really interesting. It'll
3:56
Speaker 1: be a fascinating decision, you know, a few months slash
4:00
Speaker 1: years down the line as to whether the Jags do
4:01
Speaker 1: pick up that fifth year option, which uh, you know,
4:04
Speaker 1: for a long time I thought was an absolute slam
4:07
Speaker 1: dunk that they wouldn't. I was writing, you know, back
4:10
Speaker 1: in January that I thought that Leonard fro Nett had
4:12
Speaker 1: played his last game after the whole Texans debacle. But yeah,
4:15
Speaker 1: I go back to to the joint practices in Baltimore,
4:18
Speaker 1: which is when they're light for me sort of came
4:20
Speaker 1: out with Leonard four Net was last year when he
4:22
Speaker 1: was scheduled to speak on Thursdays, it was you know,
4:25
Speaker 1: he'd be milling around in the locker room where he'd
4:27
Speaker 1: be sitting sleeping at his locker and pushing it back
4:29
Speaker 1: and making everybody wait. And it's the kind of stuff
4:31
Speaker 1: that nobody really cares about, you know, the media having
4:33
Speaker 1: to deal with. But it was a fact that was
4:35
Speaker 1: the stuff way to deal with. But in Baltimore, I
4:37
Speaker 1: think it was the second day of the two joint practices,
4:39
Speaker 1: he wasn't scheduled to talk. He was walking off the
4:42
Speaker 1: field and I was just like, hey man, you have
4:44
Speaker 1: a minute to chat. And he sat and chatted for
4:45
Speaker 1: like five six seven minutes something that we would have
4:47
Speaker 1: absolutely never seen from London for net last year, where
4:51
Speaker 1: it just seemed like he had really turned a page. Now,
4:54
Speaker 1: you know, does that change if adversity hits, if you
4:56
Speaker 1: pull a hamstring, or if you pull a quad or
4:59
Speaker 1: you know know, if this two and T record had
5:01
Speaker 1: been ohing four, Are we still seeing the same guy?
5:03
Speaker 1: I think that's a fair question. But all you can
5:05
Speaker 1: judge him off is the actions that you see from
5:07
Speaker 1: him day to day, and so far, I think all
5:09
Speaker 1: signs have been pretty positive. Phil Heilman from the Athletic
5:12
Speaker 1: Mark Long from the Associated Press. This is a media
5:15
Speaker 1: round table um. The Gardner Minshew thing is blown up
5:18
Speaker 1: obviously outside the building. It's it's crazy to see it.
5:20
Speaker 1: It's all over television's everywhere in town. People have shirts
5:24
Speaker 1: and But the football side of this thing, the XS
5:28
Speaker 1: and os part of this, you know, the knock on
5:31
Speaker 1: him coming in was that he couldn't make a lot
5:33
Speaker 1: of the throws. He didn't have a strong arm, and
5:35
Speaker 1: there was a bunch of knocks on him. But I
5:38
Speaker 1: haven't seen him miss a throw like. He can make
5:41
Speaker 1: the throws right. He can go out there obviously go
5:43
Speaker 1: to from the classroom to the field and bring all
5:45
Speaker 1: that with him. But he could execute all these things,
5:48
Speaker 1: at least so far he has. Why was that knock
5:50
Speaker 1: on it? His turn to Dy Westbrook on the last
5:52
Speaker 1: drive was I think the kind of thing that people
5:55
Speaker 1: questioned whether he could make it where it was you know, uh,
5:58
Speaker 1: you know probably what fifteen yard out towards the left
6:01
Speaker 1: sideline and he threw it. Uh, you know, not great
6:03
Speaker 1: coverage from Duke Dawson, former Gator who's bounced around early
6:07
Speaker 1: in his career. But right, yeah, but he has just
6:10
Speaker 1: taken a shot. Yeah, I mean that game winning drive
6:13
Speaker 1: was off to a pretty rough start. He gets hit
6:15
Speaker 1: in the leg and his past goes fluttering towards the sideline.
6:18
Speaker 1: Could have, you know, potentially been intercepted. The next play,
6:22
Speaker 1: I think it was Bradley Chubb or maybe Miller, one
6:24
Speaker 1: of their guys strip Sex and the ball bounces right
6:27
Speaker 1: back to him. He's got the presence of mind to
6:28
Speaker 1: complete a pass. And then uh, there's the rough in
6:31
Speaker 1: the pastor penalty and then yeah, the throad of Westbrook
6:32
Speaker 1: was nice that there's a comeback route to Chris Conley
6:35
Speaker 1: that put them in field goal range. And yeah, just
6:37
Speaker 1: a lot of nice throws. Um. You know, to me,
6:41
Speaker 1: we're not looking at the Kansas City Chiefs offense here.
6:44
Speaker 1: I mean, the Jack's had six points at halftime. So
6:45
Speaker 1: I think you do have to sort of realize that
6:48
Speaker 1: there are still some limitations. But we've seen him multiple
6:51
Speaker 1: times now back in Houston and in Denver that Garner
6:54
Speaker 1: min Whow has an ability to rally his teammates and
6:57
Speaker 1: important moments, and he has the ability to make, you know,
7:00
Speaker 1: maybe not every throw, but certainly enough throws where the
7:03
Speaker 1: defenses can't load the box, where defenses have to take
7:06
Speaker 1: them seriously, and where guys like you know, DJ Chart
7:08
Speaker 1: can start to emerge. Yeah, and you didn't even mention
7:11
Speaker 1: the best throw of the day, which I think is
7:13
Speaker 1: one of the best ones I've seen in my fifteen
7:15
Speaker 1: years on his pet was the where he eluded three
7:18
Speaker 1: defenders at his feet and through the touchdown pass too
7:21
Speaker 1: with Karl Armstead. I thought that was just a fantastic play,
7:25
Speaker 1: and I will remember that one, you know, long before
7:28
Speaker 1: I long after I've left Jacksonville. I just thought that
7:31
Speaker 1: was a fantastic play. It's it showed a lot of moxie,
7:34
Speaker 1: it showed a lot of awareness, keeping his head up
7:37
Speaker 1: eluding three defenders. Um, but what I will say about
7:41
Speaker 1: him is is this is a big three week stretch
7:43
Speaker 1: where he's gonna I mean, he obviously got sacked five
7:45
Speaker 1: times in Denver. Now you go against Carolina and then
7:48
Speaker 1: next week New Orleans. Three just absolutely three of the
7:51
Speaker 1: top defenses. Nobody. I don't think anybody saw this coming.
7:53
Speaker 1: I don't think you've thought. We all thought Denver's defense
7:56
Speaker 1: would be legit with those those ends, but nobody. I
7:58
Speaker 1: don't think anybody thought Carolina's defense be where it's at,
8:02
Speaker 1: And nobody knew where the Saints would be this good.
8:04
Speaker 1: I mean, what the Saints did last week in Denver
8:06
Speaker 1: or in Dallas was was just a work of art
8:09
Speaker 1: defensively against that the high powered Dallas team. So, uh,
8:13
Speaker 1: you know, this is an important three week stretch to
8:15
Speaker 1: try to keep him upright, keep him healthy, and see
8:18
Speaker 1: what you can do offensively. But uh, yeah, what he
8:21
Speaker 1: did with the game win driving and really I go back,
8:24
Speaker 1: he should be three and I as a starter in
8:26
Speaker 1: that game. He did everything right at Houston to win
8:29
Speaker 1: that ball game. And you know, whether or not you
8:32
Speaker 1: believe the two point conversion was the right call I
8:34
Speaker 1: probably would have kicked it there, And that's in hindsight
8:37
Speaker 1: at that Even at the time before they missed the
8:38
Speaker 1: two one Collers, I thought they should have kicked it
8:40
Speaker 1: on the road. I get why he did it, but
8:43
Speaker 1: I also from that I didn't like the play call.
8:45
Speaker 1: Even if you did, I didn't want you know, you
8:47
Speaker 1: couldn't run the ball. You know, everybody knows you can't
8:49
Speaker 1: run the ball. They hadn't been able to run the
8:50
Speaker 1: ball to that point, so why are you trying to
8:52
Speaker 1: run the ball there? But anyway, keep the ball on
8:54
Speaker 1: the and Minshoo's hands hot quarterback keeping going over there.
8:56
Speaker 1: But he's been fantastic. Should probably be three and o
8:59
Speaker 1: as a starting co It sounds like we've buried the lead.
9:01
Speaker 1: Do you have an issue with play calling here? Mark?
9:04
Speaker 1: So that play I had an issue with. I didn't
9:06
Speaker 1: have a I didn't have a single issue with the
9:07
Speaker 1: play calling last week. Uh, they found something, saw something
9:10
Speaker 1: at halftime and really really just got Leonard going and
9:14
Speaker 1: exploited the inside of that Denver defense. My favorite player
9:17
Speaker 1: was the fake motion that Deity to the left of
9:20
Speaker 1: fake screen back to the right and then that that
9:23
Speaker 1: was very nice and I think that was better than
9:25
Speaker 1: the than the alude three defenders and throw a touchdown
9:28
Speaker 1: pass on that was a better play call, not a
9:30
Speaker 1: better down, It was a It was a very creative play.
9:32
Speaker 1: That was one of the more creative play calls I've
9:34
Speaker 1: seen in any game this year, or you know, any
9:37
Speaker 1: game in recent memory. I thought, you just don't see
9:39
Speaker 1: guys running that wide open after you know, so much
9:41
Speaker 1: sort of eye candy. It's a lot of moving carts,
9:45
Speaker 1: and you gotta have the protection. And they, you know,
9:47
Speaker 1: to this point they hadn't had a lot of great
9:48
Speaker 1: protection and they got a little bit better protection there.
9:50
Speaker 1: And twelve hits and Josh Stobbs taking some first team
9:55
Speaker 1: reps as we can practice because the needs a little
9:57
Speaker 1: banged up. But I think it'll be okay, I hope.
9:59
Speaker 1: So he's on a roll, right, he'll be fine. He's
10:01
Speaker 1: a gamer, is Yeah, it really does Jalen Ramsey. That's
10:06
Speaker 1: the other big topic around the Jags, right, if you
10:09
Speaker 1: go in that locker room. I don't know if I
10:12
Speaker 1: don't know if it's a huge topic for the guys
10:14
Speaker 1: in the locker room, though, what do you guys, what's
10:17
Speaker 1: the feel of that? And he's not practicing on Wednesday.
10:20
Speaker 1: We'll see how the status goes the rest of the
10:22
Speaker 1: week with the back and all that. What is your
10:25
Speaker 1: general feeling about this thing right now? And what do
10:29
Speaker 1: you think the feeling is in that locker room guys.
10:33
Speaker 1: I mean, my big question is is the back injury legit?
10:37
Speaker 1: How legit is the back injury? I don't think he
10:40
Speaker 1: would have again, knowing Jalen as well as I do,
10:43
Speaker 1: which is not great, but I what I know of Jalen,
10:46
Speaker 1: I don't think he would have missed a game with
10:49
Speaker 1: that team and put that team in, you know, in
10:52
Speaker 1: harm's way essentially by not playing, damaging the team. I
10:55
Speaker 1: don't think he would have done that to his friends,
10:57
Speaker 1: his guys in the locker room if he wasn't legitimately hurts.
11:00
Speaker 1: So I do believe there is some legitimacy to the
11:04
Speaker 1: back nry. But there are a lot of people out
11:05
Speaker 1: there who are calling BS on it, and I get it,
11:09
Speaker 1: and I get it. I you know, I can see
11:10
Speaker 1: where they're coming from. Um, I think this is gonna
11:14
Speaker 1: be a big week, you know. Where where does it?
11:17
Speaker 1: Does he try to fight through this thing? Does he
11:20
Speaker 1: try to play on Thursdays? As you try to practice
11:22
Speaker 1: on Thursday or practice on Friday and get ready for
11:25
Speaker 1: this game. I know this. You know, if this is
11:28
Speaker 1: what people believe, there are people who believe this is
11:30
Speaker 1: his ploy to to force the JAG's hand. Um, if
11:35
Speaker 1: this is it, you know, it's probably genius on his
11:38
Speaker 1: part and his agents part. Honestly, because I don't think
11:42
Speaker 1: you're getting I mean, you're you're, you're you're coming up
11:46
Speaker 1: with an excuse to not practice. I just wanted to win. Well,
11:51
Speaker 1: you're on a team here that could agree. I agree,
11:55
Speaker 1: But that just goes to show you that it's it's
11:58
Speaker 1: not about winning, it's about it's about a uh clash
12:02
Speaker 1: with you know, someone in the building you know you
12:05
Speaker 1: obviously don't have any respect for You've lost respect for him,
12:08
Speaker 1: and you believe he's lost respect for you. It's not
12:14
Speaker 1: like you know, two guys who don't see eye to eye,
12:17
Speaker 1: and you know, nobody knows exactly what was said after
12:21
Speaker 1: that Houston game. Obviously it was something that that rubbed
12:25
Speaker 1: jail in the wrong way. We know that Tom Coughlin
12:28
Speaker 1: can be abrasive. We we've all known that. You talk
12:30
Speaker 1: to anybody who's ever played for him, and you hear that,
12:33
Speaker 1: So it wouldn't be surprising if he, you know, got
12:37
Speaker 1: on him pretty good and Jalen just reacted like millennials react.
12:40
Speaker 1: They're not used to that kind of stuff. I will say,
12:42
Speaker 1: to Jalen's credit, I watched his uh behavior and body
12:47
Speaker 1: language on the bench during the game on Sunday because
12:50
Speaker 1: I was interested to see was this going to be
12:52
Speaker 1: a Leonard for in that situation where he sat on
12:54
Speaker 1: the bench and sort of secluded himself, And that was
12:56
Speaker 1: not the case at all. He was on Tim Walton's
12:58
Speaker 1: hip for pretty much the entire game. He uh, what
13:04
Speaker 1: time the defense came off the field? Uh, you know,
13:07
Speaker 1: he was out there. I think there were a couple
13:08
Speaker 1: of times he was like legitimately like almost drawing up
13:11
Speaker 1: coverages for Trey Herndon a couple of times after Hernon
13:13
Speaker 1: gotten beat. His reaction to Herndon when Herndon knockdown his
13:17
Speaker 1: first past defense, his reaction was fantastic. I mean, it
13:20
Speaker 1: was nobody more excited in that building than Jens. It
13:23
Speaker 1: was certainly a guy who was locked in, So I'll
13:24
Speaker 1: give him credit for that. I'm not a doctor and
13:26
Speaker 1: I'm not close enough to Jalen to know how serious
13:28
Speaker 1: to back injury is. I'm with you in that I
13:30
Speaker 1: do think that his competitiveness, if you were healthy, he
13:32
Speaker 1: would be playing. Maybe that's the completely wrong read, but
13:36
Speaker 1: at least for his actions on the sideline, it looked
13:39
Speaker 1: like somebody who's still locked in, not somebody who's checked
13:41
Speaker 1: out entirely on this organization. And him telling Nate Burlson
13:44
Speaker 1: in that podcast last week that I don't I don't
13:46
Speaker 1: know that if I played my last game for Jackson, Well,
13:48
Speaker 1: that to me was in his indication, his almost his
13:51
Speaker 1: acknowledgment that Okay, this doesn't look like it's going to
13:54
Speaker 1: go the way I wanted to go, and I might
13:57
Speaker 1: be stuck here playing this season, right, which would be
14:01
Speaker 1: good for the Jags. They need him. They're a better
14:02
Speaker 1: team with Jalen Ramsey on the field. There's nobody. No
14:05
Speaker 1: one can tell me any differently, and no one can
14:07
Speaker 1: prove to me any differently. They are a better team
14:09
Speaker 1: when Jalen an No one would argue that. Teams in
14:13
Speaker 1: the LEAGUI yeah, but I mean, yeah, I don't. Yes,
14:18
Speaker 1: no one would argue that. But there are people who
14:20
Speaker 1: believe that the Jags should jettison him and all of
14:24
Speaker 1: his headaches and move on. And I just I don't
14:27
Speaker 1: think that makes any sense at all. And listen, when
14:30
Speaker 1: the owner is involved, shot Con is involved in this,
14:33
Speaker 1: that tells you everything you need. No shot Con, Tony Con.
14:36
Speaker 1: They see this, They see Jalon Ramsey as a pivotal
14:39
Speaker 1: piece of this franchise, a star player they haven't had
14:43
Speaker 1: in their six years of ownership or however many it is.
14:47
Speaker 1: Uh And there's no reason to seven years. How there's
14:51
Speaker 1: no reason to trade him. And unless you know, unless
14:54
Speaker 1: it becomes more of a distraction, I don't think it
14:56
Speaker 1: is a destruction in that locker room. I really don't.
14:58
Speaker 1: I think they court Jalen and they want him on
15:01
Speaker 1: the field, and if it works, it works. If it doesn't,
15:03
Speaker 1: it doesn't. And the way the football games too, which
15:05
Speaker 1: helps two a row winning is the cure. All. Yes, absolutely,
15:11
Speaker 1: how it works. What do you guys got coming up
15:12
Speaker 1: this week? That's a great question. It's early in the week,
15:18
Speaker 1: gives us. I do think that it's interesting that Jags
15:20
Speaker 1: have Christian McCaffrey on the schedule this week, Alvin Kamar
15:23
Speaker 1: on the schedule next week. To the most versatile running
15:26
Speaker 1: backs in the league, sort of contending with that will
15:28
Speaker 1: be really interesting. We saw Royce Freeman from Denver catch
15:31
Speaker 1: a couple of passes, some big, you know, third down
15:33
Speaker 1: passes last week. How do you contain two of the
15:37
Speaker 1: you know, most explosive guys in the league. And I'm
15:40
Speaker 1: I'm gonna gonna try to dig in on on Yunike
15:42
Speaker 1: and got Way maybe and see find out what's going
15:46
Speaker 1: on there. I think he's hurt way worse than he's
15:49
Speaker 1: letting on, and maybe way worse than the team's letting on.
15:51
Speaker 1: The fact that he's still practicing is a testament to him.
15:54
Speaker 1: I think, you know, that's just who he is. Anybody
15:56
Speaker 1: knows him. Yeah, he's just he's I mean, he's he's
15:59
Speaker 1: dog in in in his work, ethic and so. But
16:02
Speaker 1: I might be detrimental to so uh, you know, they're
16:06
Speaker 1: obviously for a player of his caliber to not have
16:09
Speaker 1: a sack through four games is h is stunning and
16:14
Speaker 1: no one saw it coming and it could hurt him,
16:17
Speaker 1: hurt him moving forward. Yeah, he's up against it. I mean,
16:20
Speaker 1: he's he's in playing him that last year the deal
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Speaker 1: Mark Long Associated Press got to see appreciate your time,
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Speaker 1: Philip for having Philip Heilman to The Athletic. Will look
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Speaker 1: forward to reading your guys writing this week. Appreciate it. Guys.
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Speaker 1: Thanks