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Ep 8 - L.A. Confidential (1997) · Popcorn and Pals

• Justin Weakley: Welcome back to Popcorn and Pals, the podcast where we talk about all sorts of movies, good and bad, and we give you our completely unqualified takes on them. He's Zach and I'm Justin. And today we're talking about the 1997 noir crime thriller that'll make you want to solve a murder. It's LA Confidential. But before we dive in, Zachary, do you want to kick us off with your plot summary? Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, definitely. This one was easy. The plot was like straightforward. Not a lot going on in this movie. Very simple movie, you know? Didn't have to pay attention too hard. Super simple, you know, pretty sure I got my plot narrowed in. Justin Weakley: Good. You make me feel better because I had thoughts and I, that was one of them for sure. Zachary Wheeler: Alright, in Los Angeles, a city with a seedy underbelly and celebrity lookalike sex workers, three rival police detectives, a weasley know-it-all, a grumpy brute, and a future alleged sex offender, must put aside their differences to solve a murder and take down a corrupt police chief. Justin Weakley: Bravo. That was really well done. I ⁓ like the Kevin Spacey aspect of it. Yeah, that was really good. ⁓ God. there's a... I feel it's such an easy target. I almost didn't put that on here. We're getting too far ahead of ourselves here. But yes, we will get to age the worth for sure. Zachary Wheeler: Thanks. What? didn't... How do you know who I'm talking about? We'll get to age the worst, you know? Yeah, no doubt. Alright, before we jump into the movie and stuff though, so you recommended I read Dungeon Carl. Dude. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: All the buildings have collapsed in my city. Bourne Corporation is setting up this dungeon. I'm running into the first level right now. I am all in. The book is great. Yeah. No, I'm having a good time. Justin Weakley: You're going, it's awesome, isn't it? It's a, yeah, it's, feel like that's all it boils down to. It's like, it's just fun to read. It's hard to put it down. The way that he writes is, it's so much fun. I just finished the Butcher's Masquerade, which is book five, and I'm about to start book six. and then there's seven and then eight comes out in May. So if you can get caught up, we can be book buddies. Zachary Wheeler: There go. So my brother, I went out to have dinner with him on, so my parents have been here all week and they were staying at my brother's. So we went out to dinner with them several times over the week. And Rick was like, dude, I've got a book for you. He's like, dungeon crawler Carl. And I'm like, I'm already a hundred pages in. He's like, damn it. I thought I was going to show you something. Like Justin beats you by like a day and a half. Justin Weakley: Mm. You know, I I told Hannah about this because, well, not that specific thing. All right. When we were in college, for some strange reason, me and Rick both got in. Rick is Zachary's brother for anybody that doesn't know. We got into reading Game of Thrones because that was right before HBO came out with the first season of Game of Thrones. And we read those books in tandem and we had like the most fun. ⁓ reading them and like getting super hyped for the first season and then hyped for the second season all the things it was a lot of fun yeah exactly and and then it fizzled out because georgia r martin sucks and he's just gonna die Zachary Wheeler: And the sixth season after you read the sixth book? You know, in George's defense, like he's got no more. There's nothing positive can happen to him anymore. Right. Like no matter how he writes those other books. So in George R.R. Marr's defense, yeah. Justin Weakley: I think he knows it. That's how he knows it too. You can't punch your way out of this bag. It is, yeah. It can never... Yeah, exactly. He's just waiting for the sweet embrace of death and then we'll all be put out of our misery. Zachary Wheeler: It's like in a lose-lose. Yeah, he's in a lose-lose. So he's just, I think he's just like, I give up. You know, he'll let some ghost rider finish it for him after his death, you know? ⁓ Justin Weakley: I so, but Dungeon Crawler Carl, I can't remember if we talked about this the other night, but I think I read somewhere, I think Seth MacFarlane has, he is involved in, I don't know what they're making. I don't know if it's a show, I don't know if it's a movie. I don't know if it's animated like Family Guy or if it's gonna be live action, but he is involved in some capacity, so we'll see. Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. He, ⁓ I loved Family Guy when I was like, you know, 13. Right? Like, that's what it's made for. ⁓ But he had a show called The Orville. Did you ever watch it? Yeah. Yeah. And like, as you know, I'm like a huge Star Trek fan. That's like probably my number one fandom out of all everything. And, ⁓ And like, honestly, New Trek is... Justin Weakley: Yeah. ⁓ yeah, well I never watched it, I heard it, I remember it though. Hmm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: It's fine. Strange New World's good, right? But I felt like the Orville, he actually did a really good job of like kind of putting in his humor, his kind of absurdism humor with a more dramatic plot, especially as the seasons got going. I actually thought it was a really, really good show and kind of filled the Star Trek void, even when Real Trek was not doing that for me. So no, I'm excited. I feel like he's a very competent and creative person. I think. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Hmm. Mm. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: some of the ⁓ adolescent humor that he brings to some of his projects. A lot of people like dog on and I get it, but I also see a side of him that's more interesting. And I think he's, as he gets older, he wants to do that, do more of that stuff too. So I think it's not bad choice. It's better than like giving it to, ⁓ I don't know. Like, yeah, Jay, exactly. Right? Like. Justin Weakley: Mm. Yeah, well, and. JJ Abrams. Yeah, when I saw Seth MacFarlane attached to it, ⁓ I was like, I don't know about it, but it makes sense because there is a level of humor in Dungeon Crawler Carl in the entire series. I was like, yeah, you need to have somebody who can tell the humor aspects of it. But yeah, if you keep going with it, ⁓ I will say this, it's like the rare instance where I feel like each Zachary Wheeler: be something more unique. Justin Weakley: book gets better and better and better. Somehow he like outdoes himself every single time. ⁓ So they're really fun. ⁓ anybody listening has not checked out Dungeon Crawler Carl, they're really fun. Highly suggest it. Zachary Wheeler: It's a tongue twister of a name. I struggle with it, but I struggle with lot of words, so. Justin Weakley: It is. The subsequent books, they all have their Dungeon Crawler Carl series, but they have their own unique, like Carl's Doomsday scenario and all that stuff. So it's they're easier to say. But yes, you are exactly right. Carl and Donut. There you go. Hmm. Zachary Wheeler: right. So let's jump into ⁓ our conversation about LA Confidential. ⁓ let's just set some stuff up. So podcast structure, we're going to have a quick chat. ⁓ We're going to talk about some of our initial notes. ⁓ then go into our superlatives. And then finally, we will end whether we think this is a classic or not. I don't know where you're gonna land on that, so I'm very curious. Cause I'm like, I'm not even sure where I land on it yet. To be honest. You have your case? Okay, good. I am waiting for the episode where one of us loves the movie and one of us hates it. I cannot wait for that episode. I don't know if it's LA Confidential yet, but. ⁓ And then let's do a real plot summary. Now, again, this plot is so complicated. Justin Weakley: ⁓ I'll make my my standpoint known. Yes. Yes, I do. Yeah. They might, I don't know. Mm. You Zachary Wheeler: Like, it's so complicated. I think, and the reason it's complicated is just there's a lot of deception happening, right, throughout the movie. And so if you cut out the deception of it, the plot's actually pretty simple. There's, you're introduced to three cops. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: And I'm going to be honest with you, the names did not stick with me, but the actors are so famous in my mind, I just like call them like, okay, there's Russell Crowe, Kevin Spacey and Guy Beers. But like the, they're, three cops. Each one's got very, I think, distinct personality types. And they're kind of at odds with each other. All of them in some way or fashion. ⁓ There's a, and they Justin Weakley: Yeah. Mm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: an inciting murder that really starts the plot moving forward. Another cop is killed in that murder. It's kind of like a mass murder. And really, it's about the three of them kind of solving this crime first individually because they're kind of at odds with each other, but they all have their own skill sets and they all kind of work through it together. And eventually they, you know, they it's like every superhero movie these days, right? The first they're enemies and then they punch for a bit and then they're friends, you know. They become friends along the way. Some are murdered, some are not, you know, and they discover, spoiler alert for a movie that was, you know, 30 years old now almost, ⁓ that the police chief is kind of behind the whole thing and he's trying to run a crime organization through the police department. I have some nitpicks about his organization, but ⁓ Justin Weakley: Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: It runs a crime organization and they uncover it, the three cops, and ⁓ put a stop to it. So I think that's summary of the movie. You notice how I left out Kim Basinger's part. I don't know why she's in the movie, but we'll get to that later too. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. I have a great plot summary too, because you're right. is, it was a tough, all right. I know it was a book from like what, seven years prior or something. And I'd like, I read that they trim some stuff down and all the things, but yeah, there's a lot going on. So it's, it's kind of a lot to keep up with, but very, very well done on your plot synopsis. Good job, Zachary. Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. I don't know. I was like this one. I'm like, I don't know am gonna talk about this? Okay, I can't go through it scene by scene because it's like what it takes to get every point But I'm like, you know what? It's just them solving a murder. They're not friends. They are friends They figure out it's the chief. boom my movie's over ⁓ Justin Weakley: You What? Yeah, like the whole first half, I would say like what the first half of the movie you are following three separate storylines between Bud, Exley and Vincennes. So it's not until you kind of get to like the middle, even like a little bit after the middle of the movie where you start to see some of those storylines converge more. But yeah, there's just a lot going on. It's ⁓ from a plot summary standpoint, it's kind of tough to drill it down into simple. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Justin Weakley: simple description but very Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, I definitely ⁓ afterwards, like I feel like I had to get grasp of it at the end. It comes together well at the end. ⁓ But I was like, I'm gonna go watch some YouTube videos that kind of like, you know, ending explained, like confidential kind of thing just to be like, Hey, did I really understand this? Because it was, it's a complicated movie. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ So this is our first crime thriller. How are you about, like, what are your thoughts on crime thriller movies? Crime movies? Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. ⁓ I love them. I love them. ⁓ Like one, not a movie per se, but one of my favorite shows is True Detective Season One. I mean, like the crime thriller genre is so fun. It's kind of like, I love like the Sherlock Holmes movies and like aspect of like learning alongside characters and you feel like you're picking up pieces of evidence as they are learning it. It's, I love that style, that style of storytelling. It's just. Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Justin Weakley: It's really fun. Zachary Wheeler: Are there any crime thrillers? I know you mentioned True Detective, which I think is a high bar for a lot of other people. Is there any other movies in particular that you're like a big fan of in this genre? Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. not trying to think. Zachary Wheeler: Like what about like seven or? Justin Weakley: Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, seven. I was trying to think like specifically related to this, like like the Hollywood noir, like Black Dahlia was a good one. Zodiac, which is Zodiac's later. But like those were. yeah. Yeah. They're a little bit long, long winded. But yeah, there's I mean, there's so. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: or the noir. Mm-hmm. It's still a great movie, Zodiac's awesome. Yeah, I love that movie. Spoiler alert, think Zodiac is better than this movie, but that's just me. Justin Weakley: Yeah, I agree with you on that. No, I like the classic crime thriller murder mystery is so much fun. Oh my God, don't even me started on Knives Out. Love Knives Out. Yeah, there's more modern, but... Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, no, that's a great one knives out those are kind of more ⁓ Or in their friend like what's the right not friendlier, but they're kind of light-hearted relative, you know Yeah, this movie is very self-serious in a lot of ways it has its moments, but Justin Weakley: more entertaining, less serious and more like fun. ⁓ Yeah, it is. It does. Yeah. But yeah, there's tons of them out there. And I feel like I don't know. This one. I can't wait to break it down because I, I, ⁓ I definitely have some thoughts on it. But what I mean, what like I know this was. ⁓ this was my first time seeing it. This is your you hadn't seen it. OK. Yeah. So what I mean. Zachary Wheeler: Are you a, ⁓ god, sorry. Yeah, mine too. Mm-hmm. Mm-mm. No. Justin Weakley: What were your initial thoughts? Zachary Wheeler: Well, was gonna ask too, are you a true crime guy at all? Like, true crime plot grass? Yeah. Okay. I like, I feel like this itch is kind of that like spot, you know, as well. Like I could see my wife really liking this movie. She loves all that true crime stuff. Justin Weakley: Like actual crime? Yeah, yeah. Love, love a good like crime documentary too. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Sure, yeah. Like I feel like that's like 90 % of the things that we watch together are usually some type of true crime documentary on Netflix. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Yeah, no, I I'm a I was a big true crime guy. Like I loved all the podcasts and serial and my favorite murder and all that stuff. And I do feel like I got a little tired of it, you know, as I got as I got older. Justin Weakley: Mm. Yeah, well like it's very... yeah, well it does. I feel like you kind of... okay, I put true crime almost in a similar category as horror movies for me. I think if you... for me personally, if I watch too many horror movies, I really start to not like them. But if I watch like one scary movie like Every Blue Moon, I'm like, ⁓ man, I love it. Kind of get my heart rate up a little bit, but I can't watch them a whole lot. I feel like I do the same thing with true crime. After a while, it's like you can only solve so many murder mysteries before they all kind of start melding together. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. That's how I agree with you 100%. Like horror is such a great analogy for that because it is. It's like when horror is good and you get it, you hit it at the right moment. It's like some of my favorite movies are horror movies. Like I remember like watching Conjuring for the first time or... Justin Weakley: Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: at Hill House that Netflix series like I watched that for the first was like that was incredible ⁓ You know scary but incredible and I feel like that's the same way with true crime you get like a story that hooks you the first time I listened to serial and I was like I was I was ⁓ people who had all the opinions about what's going on as all I could talk about was like okay, what's going on serial? Who do you think? What do you think? You know, ⁓ really does like it puts you in the the the Justin Weakley: Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: the driver's seat of like solving a crime some these type of movies and so you get to kind of be part of the action. ⁓ Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah, it's really fun. mean, like, yeah, go back to your comment about horror movies, we can have a whole separate conversation about it. But I think horror movies, horror that genre is like, I don't know, it is the most untapped genre, in my opinion, it's flooded with just crap and like, Zachary Wheeler: We'll get some horror movies on this podcast for sure. Yeah, so it's like 90 % garbage and like 10 % brilliant. Justin Weakley: Yeah, but I think Mike Flanagan, I know we're going off on tangent. I'm sorry. It's just fun to talk about. But Mike Flanagan, he is, I feel like if that dude can just make more, I feel like 90 % of the stuff that he pumps out is really good, really decent. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, dude, like I just told you, Haunting a Hill House. I was like, I loved, I mean, I could go on a Mike Flanagan gushing session. Midnight Mass was incredible. Did you ever see the Shining sequel that he did? Justin Weakley: Mid, Midnight Mass. I love Midnight Mass. yeah, ⁓ crack, with you and McGregor. What is it called though? I did see it, I just forgot the name. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Yes. This is what podcast editing is all about. Justin Weakley: which like, yeah, I feel like I would love to have more horror stuff out there, but I feel like there has been, even like over the last five years, yes, Dr. Sleep, even like over, even over the last five years, there has been like really, really good scary movies that have come out. But anyway, neither here nor there. We could talk ⁓ days about horror movies. Let's talk about LA Confidential. Zachary Wheeler: Doctor Sleep. Sorry. That's just gonna bug me. All right, Crime Thrillers, L.A. Confidential, let's go back. Maybe we should hear, let's just pause right now. We're gonna watch a horror movie, we'll switch gears, right? Justin Weakley: You Yeah, you know what? Let's ⁓ I don't even want to talk about LA Confidential. Let's talk about Midnight Mass real fast. Zachary Wheeler: No, to get back to LA confidential I thought it was good. I thought it was a good movie. It very competently made really well acted I thought. And you look at even a lot of those actors like Guy Pearson and Russell Crowe was like one of their first like big movies and like just like the casting director that pulled these people out of their butt right like what a find on all of them I think. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Even the character actor guys like James Cromwell and things like that. Danny DeVito is there. It's a stellar cast. ⁓ The story's interesting. There's some good twists and turns. It's a fun movie, I thought. How about you? Justin Weakley: Yeah, I think, okay, I know this is not how anybody should go into watching a movie, but I feel like with in this specific scenario, I'd never seen it. I had always heard LA Confidential is just amazing. It's an amazing movie, one of the best movies of all time. If you do any... Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, if you're looking at Rot Tomatoes, it's like better than the Godfather. Justin Weakley: Apparently it's the best movie ever made. ⁓ So when you go into it with the expectation of like, shit, this is gonna be one of the like top five movies of all time. I think I was just disappointed. Like I wholeheartedly agree with you. The acting, I never had a single problem with the acting in this movie. I thought Guy Pearce was phenomenal. I could watch Guy Pearce just read the newspaper and I would be, yeah. Zachary Wheeler: No, you and me both love Guy. He's like the most underutilized actor, one the most underutilized actors in Hollywood. I love him. Justin Weakley: Yeah, he is. He was phenomenal. Russell Crowe was phenomenal. Creepy Spacey. We'll give it to him. I mean, like for all of his faults as a human being, he was great in the movie. And yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Dude, no, the dude is incredible. It's like, it's so frustrating that he's such a skis. Like I said, we'll get into it. But like, I mean, he's such a good actor. He's like, was one of my favorite parts of this movie. And I'm like, son of a bitch. Justin Weakley: He is. Yeah, but like the acting was phenomenal I will give it that but there is I think there was just so much that irked me about it and like okay I have an analogy here but okay like from Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Justin Weakley: several of the things that I have pointed out, like there was just some bad writing in spots. I put down there were some plot holes, some nonsensical character turns and motivations. There were more subplots, leads, suspect names that I can, I would have to have an encyclopedia open alongside this movie to keep track of everything. It felt like one of those, you pointed it out. I think I would have to watch it multiple times to fully understand everything that's going on. What it felt like was I know it was a book. I know they trimmed things down. And I think maybe some of that stuff got lost in translation, at least for me. I likened it to like Ready Player One. if you've ever read Ready Player One, the book, phenomenal book, when they tried to trim it down and like condense it all into a movie, it was still really fun. It was good, but you lost so much of the other things that contributed to the main driving plot line. I think this is also a great example. want to call this out specifically for anybody listening as to why I'm not a film expert because clearly I'm in the minority on this. Like this is one of the best reviewed movies I think I've ever seen. ⁓ Roger Ebert gave it a perfect score. Four out of four. Time magazine gave it movie of the year over Titanic. ⁓ I mean it's I think. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, we'll get to the 1997 movies, because I'll talk about that. We'll get there in a minute. Justin Weakley: Yeah, it's... I think it has like a 99 % on Rotten Tomatoes. I mean, it's just absurd that the level of like positivity surrounding this movie and I like, I see it. It just wasn't for me. I think in short, it wasn't for me. Zachary Wheeler: So my positive review, which I said it's okay, right? Like it's okay. Definitely, I mean, but my positive review of this movie is really based on the last like half, the second half of the movie more. Like I feel like the movie is very slow to start. And this is one of my... Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Hmm. Zachary Wheeler: Like one thing I struggle with in movies is when your characters aren't likable, I do not get invested. And so, which is like, you know, maybe that makes me like less critical thinker or whatever, but like I like my characters to have like, to be redeemable. And I feel like all the characters get there, but for the first half of this movie, I'm like, I love Guy Pearce. You and I talk about all the time. The dude sucked in the first. Justin Weakley: Yeah. You Mm. Zachary Wheeler: 30 minutes of this movie as like, just like the way he handled himself in situations, whether you think he's right or wrong when he's turning in those cops or he's, you know, trying to break up a brawl or whatever he's doing, but he's just like, he's kind of sniveling, right? Like, and then same with Russell Crowe's character, but like dudes just first, we first get introduced to him. He's beating up, now he's beating up a wife beater, right? Justin Weakley: Okay. Yeah, yeah. Zachary Wheeler: He just goes in there and I'm like, you can't convict that guy now. You just beat the shit out of him, You're bad cop. And same with Kevin Spacey. He's so egocentric. he eventually gets there. He starts to realize, OK, I made some mistakes. He's actually competent as a police officer. All the characters get there and they start learning from their experiences. But you start with them in this sh- Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Zachary Wheeler: unlikable characters. And it took me an hour into this movie to get going for me. Justin Weakley: Yeah, you took one of my points. feel like, okay, I know one of the main driving points of this movie is that it highlights the corruption within the police department, right? But Ultimately all of these guys are trying they all have the same goal. They're trying to solve this murder But when all of them are just terrible people it really gets hard to get behind any of them I felt like X Lee was the only one that I could really root for because he felt like You know the one character that was doing it for the right reasons and he was doing it the right way Whereas the rest of them are literally murdering people hitting women like exploiting. Yeah, we Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Justin Weakley: We'll get into it, but it's tough to try to rally behind characters that are not great and then root for them. Zachary Wheeler: I felt like even, yeah, even Guy Pearce Exley was still like, he's like, okay, I'll do the right thing here. But also like, I want to make sure I'm getting the accolades forward. I want to get promotions. Like he's like playing the game the whole time. He's like, I got to be successful. I got to be successful. Even though like I'm coming at it from the right place or at least, you know, from a police corruption perspective, he's coming at it from like the most honest way to be a police officer. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: He's still like, yeah, but like, you know, I deserve something, right? Justin Weakley: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, his whole the whole first pitch came along with, you know, the extra ticket of like, here's my idea to save face from the public from the bloody Christmas ordeal. But like, I need I need a big promotion along with that. I mean, yeah, even Exley has like his flaws, but ⁓ yeah, we'll dive into it. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: He's better than most, there's no doubt. Justin Weakley: Yeah, but that is a great point. It's a great point that it's, yeah, they're all fairly terrible in their own sense. Zachary Wheeler: Did you have a favorite pairing? Because I feel like the movie is all about these pairings throughout it. Did you have a favorite pairing? Justin Weakley: Yeah, Exley and the short-lived pairing of him and Vincennes because I, yeah, they were amicable towards each other. Like, Exley, felt, Exley was a little deadly do good for the majority of the first half of the movie, but he caught so much flak from people. And Vincennes was kind of like the first one that I felt like he... I don't know, he really saw him as an equal and like, let's go solve this together. You help me and I'll help you and we will achieve our goals. ⁓ I don't know, I wanted to like Bud, but Bud was such, he's just a loose cannon that he doesn't work well with anybody except for his shitty stens, was his name, stens? That was the only guy that he worked well with and he was also a pretty big piece of shit, but. Zachary Wheeler: He worked well with the police chief when he's beating up guys for him, you know, to get him to go to town as an enforcer. They worked well. They were good pairing, you know, those two. Justin Weakley: I don't know, man. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, when he was his little, his little torture, his torturer. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Dudley, Dudley and his Irish accent. That was a good pairing. Don't get me started. I've got a whole line on that one. Yeah, that's, that's Zachary Wheeler: I don't... I was like, why? is this a thing? I feel like too, doesn't even like start until like a third of the way through the movie. I'm like, wait, is he having an Irish accent? At some point I was like, there's a couple of weird words he's saying. Justin Weakley: Well... Yeah. You know what? Let's do things differently. We're just going to take a little pinky toe dip into the nitpick pool right out of the gate. Dudley's accent. He's an American actor. What's his name? James Cromwell. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. We've all seen him. We know him. Right. Like he's not. I don't know if his character in the book was supposed to have an Irish accent. I don't think it was ever explained in the movie. Zachary Wheeler: Okay. Yep. Jonathan Cromwell. Or James Cromwell. Not Jonathan Cromwell. James Cromwell, yeah. Yeah. He's been in A Thousand Things. Justin Weakley: But yeah, halfway through I was like, why is he speaking with an Irish accent? And then... Zachary Wheeler: Maybe it's because it's the 50s and so it's earlier in US history so there's more immigration. But I'm like, we're past the 1920s, know, like Ellis Island shit. So I'm like, well, where is this coming from? Why is he Irish? What's the point of that? Justin Weakley: what I thought was really funny. No, exactly. It serves no point and it sticks out like a sore thumb because nobody else has an accent in this movie. Not even like a thick. Yeah, it kind of just pops up. It's almost like after they started shooting the first scenes, he was like, hey, it'd be kind of cool if I did an Irish accent, right? And then he gets more hammed up throughout the movie because towards the end, he starts throwing out the boyos. Zachary Wheeler: I'm not even sure he does all the time. You Justin Weakley: a boy and I was like come on man what are we doing here that was one of my big nitpicks is why does he have an iris accent what is the purpose of this Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hahaha! ⁓ I totally agree. All right, I think we touched on it. don't know. Do have any more thoughts on the movie before we jump into the categories? So we touched on it. 1997, the movie year, like just incredible. Stacked. was looking at even the Oscars, like. Justin Weakley: No, no, no, no, no, we can get into our categories. Mm. is stacked. Zachary Wheeler: There's, cause it was, there's five movies. This was when it was a five movie category. The movies are Titanic. Have you heard of it? Good Will Hunting. Is that, you know, is that a little indie flick? ⁓ LA Confidential, as good as it gets, which it's okay. I don't know if you've ever seen it. It's a. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Hmm. ⁓ Yeah. It's Jack Nicholson, Zachary Wheeler: Jack Nicholson, yeah thank you. And then The Full Monty, which I've only ever seen clips on YouTube for The Full Monty. I don't know, it looks like a silly movie. I'm sure it's good, but it looks kinda fun. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: But just stack here other movies I was looking at like top 100 movies in 97 other movies that are not on this list fifth element. You know when you're seven years old that movie was ripped. ⁓ Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. You Zachary Wheeler: Men in black. Justin Weakley: ⁓ yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Boogie Nights, which should probably have kicked off Full Monty and been in the ⁓ same with Jackie Brown. Like honestly, that probably could kick out as as it gets. ⁓ Life is Beautiful. Have you ever seen that movie? It's a Roberto Benigni movie. It's really good. It's about World War II. It's super sad, but I'm sorry I didn't mean to cut you off there. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I, I what? No. No. ⁓ Gattaca. No, I had Gattaca down. ⁓ great Ethan Hawke. I mean, our one of our favorites Starship Troopers. Duh. we'll talk about that later on, but. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, I love Gattaca. Yeah. Yeah. Justin Weakley: Yeah, I mean like they were outside of the you know, the generational movies 1997 was like you said Men in Black like I feel like I saw like Flubber on there or something several movies like Hercules Disney so many movies that came out this year That it was is just a huge year. I think that's what really struck me is seeing so many outlets rave over over L.A. Confidential and seeing Time Magazine gave it movie of the year. Don't get me wrong, I'm not like the biggest Titanic advocate. I love Titanic, it's great. I don't think it's the best movie ever made, but you're not gonna be Titanic. Not even, not on its home playing field in the same year of 1997. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, you you watch this movie and I know it's a period piece or whatever and there are parts that do feel very modern. Like, I don't know what it is about Kurt Russell in this movie. Maybe because he's so young in it. He, I mean, Kurt Russell, yeah, sorry, God. I wrote him down. When I was in my notes, I wrote down Kurt Russell so many times. So I'm gonna mess that up. I know I am. ⁓ No, Russell Crowe. Justin Weakley: Russell Crowe. Wrestle. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: He's so young in this movie and he's only like two years away from gladiator which in gladiator feels like a decade and a half after this movie But like what that's the I think like going through this list that's the thing about this movie watching it is it doesn't feel like the others like it doesn't feel like It feels like a movie from like 95 or 94 92 right like an early 90s movie you watch titanic Justin Weakley: ⁓ my god, that feels like an entirely different era. I mean, and it really was not that far off. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: I mean, maybe because it's just been in our pop culture for so long and I feel so much more modern in this movie. Men in Black feels so much more modern than this movie. Hell, Con Air comes out this year. I love Con Air. Like the pacing and the action in that movie feels so much more modern. And it's really like this heightened legacy movie, I feel like. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Great movie. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: It's taking all the victories and spoils of the first half of the 90s and making a movie, you know, with those tools when everyone else was making the next generation, I feel like. I'm looking at these movies this year. Justin Weakley: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a great point. I feel like this movie, if you would have told me this movie came out in the early 90s, I would have said, ⁓ yeah, absolutely, I believe it. But yeah, when you start comparing it to other things that came out the same exact year, it's just, it's like a different era of filmmaking. feels like, it feels antiquated. It feels older compared to stuff that was pushing the limits of what was possible. But also too, like I think, And again, you know, comparison is the thief of joy. But when I think about, you know, certain scenes in Titanic that, you know, get your heart rate up and you're like, ⁓ my God, are they gonna get out of this or whatever? I never felt that at any scene with LA Confidential. And I don't know if that was. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, I think I have like one, we'll get to best scenes, I have one where I think it's like, okay, this elevates the movie, but everything else was like pretty like. Justin Weakley: Mm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: while the plot's good, the twists are good or whatever, I don't know. I honestly, I saw the cop, corrupt chief thing a million miles away. But he opens up with being the world's most corrupt cop. So, well, you gotta beat people and kill them and shove needles in their eyes or whatever he says. And I'm like, okay, this guy's corrupt. He's like, you're just too good. You gotta make sure you snort cocaine and kill all the lackeys. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Justin Weakley: Hmm. You You It's like the worst stuff he does, the worse his accident starts to seep in, the more evil he gets, the worse he starts to talk. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. No, for sure. That was one of my notes. I'm like, when did you know he was corrupt? Because I was like, felt like, like this guy's not going to be good news. Justin Weakley: from the get go. Well, let's get into it. Why don't you talk about our categories? Because I want to hear what that scene was. Because I want to hear what scenes you enjoyed out of this. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, let's start. Okay. All right. So our categories are best scene, best character, worst character, age the best, age the worst. What are they talking about? What the fuck are they talking about? WTF. ⁓ What would be a good sequel? You know, what would happen the next day kind of thing. And then last we'll do hot takes and nitpicks. So let's start off with best scene. You want to go first? Justin Weakley: You Yeah, no you kick it off you were just talking about one of your favorite scenes that got the tension up Zachary Wheeler: Okay, so this is a kind of a cheating scene because I think it does take two scenes to make it work. But it's when Kevin Spacey goes over to the chief's house and you know says like, I've you know you were the presiding officer on the murder case from back then you know. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Mm. Zachary Wheeler: just wanted to get your opinions. He's like, have you told anyone? Turns around shoots Kevin Spacey kills them. Then he says, Rolo Tomasi. And then the next scene, you know, they're at the police station, like telling everyone, out and find who killed this guy, right? Who killed Kevin Spacey. And then he asked Guy Pierce, you know, who is, have you heard the name Rolo Tomasi? And it's just like, you know, like a aha moment. Like, ⁓ no, you were the one who killed, like I thought. Justin Weakley: ⁓ yeah. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: those two pairings and kind of. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: the use of that narrative device of the fake name to tip people off, like very clever on the writing, very clever in the story for Kevin Spacey's character to say that as he's dying, to like kind of throw that seed out there in his last breath. Like I thought that was kind of a more modern, interesting scene structure, writing technique, know, kind of reveal. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. I do. give it that. That whole tie-in was really, really well done. I would love to know, not that I would ever take the time to sit down and read the book, but I would love to know if that's taken from the book or if that was, I would assume it is, because that feels like a really big narrative piece to help tip the Exley's hat towards Dudley as the bad guy. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. I will say though, the name is ridiculous. Like, Rolo Tomasi. He's like, have you heard of Rolo? I don't think anyone's named Rolo. Justin Weakley: Which one? Exley? ⁓ Rollo? Yeah. Yeah, also, I mean like yeah, that's You want to talk about a Hail Mary on Vincent's part? Let me throw out this name and just hope that you happen to bring it up to the one dude who might know what it means Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, right. You Yeah. Yeah, I do wonder because like what if okay, so maybe this is like a nitpick, but he brings it up to Exley, right? To your point, only person he brings up to what if he was just like going ham in the office bringing it up to everybody and then someone else comes up to Exley and he's ex is like this guy killed them, you know, special agent, you know, but what a bud white brought it up. What have you told bud first? And then bud asked him. Justin Weakley: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, is totally plausible. Yeah, absolutely. It could have. You can put up a memo on the front door. Have you seen Rollo Tomasi? Zachary Wheeler: They've just been firing it out everywhere. Justin Weakley: I okay, so my favorite scenes are well, I guess mine were also kind of like a collection So spoiler alert, I think my favorite character was actually Really just because it was Guy Pearce if it if if Russell Crowe played actually I probably wouldn't have liked him I probably would have just liked whoever Guy Pearce played the most ⁓ But I think my two favorite scenes are early on in the beginning ⁓ because Exley establishes himself as this extremely intelligent tactician of a detective. So he pitches to the police chief on what they can do to save face ⁓ about the bloody Christmas ordeal, which was brilliant. They're all like, ⁓ my God, this is amazing enough to, we're gonna promote you to Lieutenant Detective, which we'll get to that, but. that whole scene was like okay this kid you know he's got some hunger he's pretty smart and then I really did enjoy his interrogation scene of the night owl murder suspects between the three guys yeah Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, the interrogation scene was on my list for sure. thought it was him like running between rooms flipping on like switches to let people listen and not listen. I don't know if that stands up in the court a lot today, but it was a great scene. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was just really good because he's like in the moment he's going he's bouncing back and forth between these three guys and he's using them against each other in a ways that they never could see coming. ⁓ But it establishes himself as one he knows what he's doing he's exceptionally smart. ⁓ So it kind of justifies, because I think from the beginning, like, yeah, he throws up this good idea, ⁓ which gets him promoted, but that puts him over all of the detectives. And he gets like the lead case on the night owl murders and everybody's like, ⁓ this nerd, we hate him and blah, blah, blah. He got off our buddies in trouble. And it kind of feels like, you know, his dad was a famous detective, so he's got to fill his shoes and ⁓ like, you know, has he earned it? And I feel like in those scenes, he makes it known that he has earned it. He deserves to be here. He knows what he's doing. He's exceptionally smart. ⁓ Yeah, I think those are my favorites. I mean, like, there's some other stuff if you want to get into, like, some of the shootouts were fun, but I wouldn't put those up there as, my favorite scenes, because a lot of times they were just cold-blooded murder. Yeah. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: No, I agree with you to me the interrogation scene is great. It shows how smart he is to your point, right? it Most movies tell you that this guy's the smartest guy I know and like that you're supposed to go along with it They really show you how smart his character is and how capable his character is See I agree with you I had Justin Weakley: Mm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: The lead up scene, I thought the Guy Pearce and Kevin Spacey team up scene where they're in the office together and ⁓ actually he's giving his speech about his dad and telling him about, you know, why he became a cop and Kevin's like, all right, well, shit, let's do this together then, you know? I thought it was a good scene. He's like, you help me, I'll help you, let's go. You know what, I like you, we're in it. ⁓ Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, let's grow up and grow down Yeah, yeah, yeah. Zachary Wheeler: I also had the punch up between Crow and Pierce when, you know, after he finds the photos and he comes in there, they punch up for a bit and then he's like, it was so and so, you know, it's the chief. It's always been the chief. And they're like, all right, we're buddies now. Let's go do it. You know, that was another good, like, good scene. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. ⁓ There's a lot of ⁓ like good bro, bromances that were established very quickly. ⁓ They have harsh feelings towards each other, but they know how to bro down pretty quick, which is great. That's what you need camaraderie in the police department that's corrupt. Zachary Wheeler: Well, it's like and like, you know, there's like the three cops what's interesting about them is in some ways They're all three corrupt right like Kevin Spacey is corrupt in that he's using his police status to get into the celebrity world He's you know setting up crimes with not setting him up But he's like getting tipped off of crimes with Danny DeVito for this mutually beneficial. He's getting paid under the table corruption, right guy peers Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: He's probably the least corrupt, but he's you know, trade basically bargaining like his ideas and his, you know, Paul, the politics of working through the police department to get promotions, you know, especially at the end, he's literally like, nah, we'll just cover this all under the rug and I'll get a super promotion, right? So like there's corruption there. And then obviously, you know, Bud White has just beat the shit out of people and you know. Justin Weakley: He yeah, he beats up everybody. mean, I mean, yeah, no. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, so like they're all three corrupt for sure. They're just not as corrupt as the guy who's trying to run a you know a mob empire through the police department Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Dang it, Dudley. Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ any other scenes? Justin Weakley: No, no, I don't think so. I think you took some of my other ones that I had. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Yeah. What was the best one for you? Justin Weakley: I think hearing you describe it, I would say the Rolo Tomasi scene. think those combined, that was really, really well Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, I think it's probably the most famous scene from this movie or at least like pairing back to back pairing. I don't know. I still go back. That interrogation scene with the three suspects is so good. And it really establishes Exley as like a very strong force to be reckoned with. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Alright, best character. Justin Weakley: You know what I'm gonna say. It's Guy Pearce. Here's the thing. I think we could have... I think we could have 1,000 Guy Pearce movies and it still wouldn't be enough. Guy Pearce deserves to be the Hollywood A-list actor. Like, he deserves to have Leo's status, I think, in my opinion. Yeah, that's my hot take. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, I guess. Let's talk why guy. Ha That's your real hot take right there. Justin Weakley: No, I really did I really enjoyed it was tough because I really did enjoy ⁓ Russell Crowe just as much as I enjoyed Guy Pearce I think I picked Exley because to your point they're all corrupt in their own sense and they all do bad things but from a character standpoint Exley was the best of the worst I guess you could say like okay out of everything that Exley did like yeah, he had some things that just didn't He's trying to skirt a little bit so that he can make sure that he himself gets personal gain. Really the one thing that like just kind of came out of left field for me with Exley's character was when he went to Len's house and just had sex with her. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, we'll talk about Kim Basinger in a second here. Academy Award winning role. Justin Weakley: Yeah, she won best actress on their best supporting actress but like that that scene that was the only thing that Really was like come on man. Like what what are we doing here? I but outside of that. I really enjoyed watching actually he was all of the things that we had talked about like with him showing off his intelligence and how Zachary Wheeler: You Justin Weakley: I don't know, he kind of has to overcome some adversity, especially towards the beginning of the movie, because he made a decision to get all these really terrible guys in trouble and then they don't like him for it. It felt like, it almost felt like high school, like locker room jocks picking on the nerd. It's like, well, you guys deserve to get in trouble. He's just like. Zachary Wheeler: that's the thing right like the movie almost plays it off like he's like well I ain't no rat like everyone's know I'm not being a rat you're like ⁓ good these guys aren't rats I'm like these are corrupt police officers corrupt police officers age that's where I'm like I was gonna get the age the worst in a second but like like get these guys some GD body cams going cuz they need it at this police department Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. They're all terrible, but out of the whole bunch, Xley is the least terrible. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ yeah, he's a good cop and an honest cop. He's just very, he wants to be successful. And so he's willing to do what it takes to be like promoted, but he never puts that like, that never gets in the way of him being an excellent cop, but maybe for the very end we'll get to the end. But like, cause I don't know, maybe we'll do the end right now, right? Like he. Justin Weakley: Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: I'll save it for for nitpicks or something because I'm like yeah I'll save it for nitpicks we'll get to the end and we'll get to the end of this movie Justin Weakley: Yeah, yeah. Who is your best character? Zachary Wheeler: This is, Payne's made this say it. I really liked Dudley. No, I really liked Kevin Spacey in this movie. Justin Weakley: Dad? He's really good. Zachary Wheeler: God, he's so good in it. Especially like when he gets kind of, like when ⁓ Mentalist comes in and ⁓ as the, you know, kind of the gay actor who ⁓ they're trying to set up the DA with or whatever, and you know, ends up getting him murdered and he's like really, kind of even in the scene, he's like, hi man, what am I doing? You know? And then he like really is trying to make amends for it. Like from that, Justin Weakley: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, he's torn up about it. He... Zachary Wheeler: point going forward. teams up with Guy Pearce and everything. I'm like, It's too bad, but I did like him a lot. I did like Guy Pearce, but to your point, like I can't get past the fact that it's Guy Pearce. You and me love him. Like we've always liked him. Like ever since I watched Time Machine when I was like 11, I was like, this is the coolest guy. This guy's so cool, you know. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yes. He's I think we might be like the unofficial Guy Pearce fan club He's so good. It's so fun. I feel like anytime I ever talked to people about movies I always inevitably land on Guy Pearce and like who? How do you not know GP? Zachary Wheeler: You The guy who was in the the really bad version of the mandolin of the What's it what was his character in? And Iron Man 3 he's the oh My god, we're so bad at this stuff, but The Mandarin he's the Mandarin like the bad version of the Mandarin where they had to like But again, I don't think he's bad in that movie, you know, it's kind of a silly movie, but You watch memento Justin Weakley: Well, there's been so many Marvel movies. Yes. Yeah. Mm. Mm. Zachary Wheeler: Love, Momento. Justin Weakley: ⁓ God, yeah, my Minto is great. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Movies, the movie is equally as hard to follow as this movie, but yeah. We'll do our episode in reverse though. We'll start out with the, it a classic? And then we'll do the each, we'll do each category that end with our notes. Justin Weakley: Yeah, maybe we'll do Momento on another feature one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I really I really enjoyed Kevin Spacey in it and it's it's a weird thing to say after like, you know, just real world stuff against the actor, but you have to give him credit where it's due. I think there is a reason why Kevin Spacey was so big in Hollywood is because he's so good. ⁓ But yeah, that scene where he's sitting at a bar at the bar after the kid gets killed by the DA and he has that fifty dollars that said gave him and he's just looking at it and he puts it down on top of his class and walks away and yeah it's like in that moment he's like I messed up real big and I need to do something about it and yeah he's really good. Vincennes is great. Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ And then I don't know I was whatever on Bud White, know, Russell Crowe is good at it. I thought he was He it's really interesting watching all three of their detective styles or like bud like like when they're getting the assignments to go find the the three men who you know, the three black men who are accused of doing the massacre and Everyone's like alright you take this assignment this assignment and like all three of them were like Justin Weakley: Mm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, we're not doing that. But they all do it in like their own different way. They all get to the same place. I thought it was kind of fun. So like, Bud's very competent. Honestly, like what really got in the way of his character for me is the Kim Basinger relationship. But ⁓ what about Danny DeVito's character? he do anything for you? Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah We'll get to Get get him the fuck out of this movie man. I don't know. I have it down is like Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll save him. We'll save him But yeah, I really I like Vincennes. I like actually Russell Crowe was he was fine. There was nothing wrong with him I think I feel like they didn't really give him a whole lot to do like he literally is just the muscle and the Intimidator of this movie. Yeah Zachary Wheeler: All right, we'll get that we'll get do you want to save them then okay? He's quiet too, right? Like everyone else, like Guy Pearce won't shut the fuck up. You know? Justin Weakley: I I thought the like, okay, going back to the interrogation scene, I feel like that scene is a great representation of all three characters because you have Guy Pearce working his magic or sorry, Exley working his magic. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Justin Weakley: Vincennes is out in the lobby like watching and talking to I think he's talking to Dudley He might be talking to somebody else, but he's like, yeah this actually guy. He's a genius ⁓ and then you have bud who just Breaks down the door at the last second puts a gun in the suspects mouth and starts playing Russian roulette like what on earth are we? But it is a in that tiny little snapshot of a movie you get a pretty decent understanding of least two of the characters maybe not so much as Vincennes but at least Exley and Bud like they're who they are and how they operate ⁓ but yeah I mean I I like them both I yeah Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, agreed. All right, best character. Dude, just go with your heart. Because it's mine too. Guy Pearce is the best character. Justin Weakley: fine yeah Guy Pearce I'm not even gonna say Exley because it's not Exley it's GP so that takes us worse character okay I wish I could share my screen so you can see what I wrote here so at first I had to drill down to two specific people but then I lumped them into just the greater the entire police department Zachary Wheeler: You There you go. All right, worst characters. Yeah, weakest link. You Justin Weakley: is the worst character because they're all terrible in their own right. But if I had to drill it down to one pure not by actor not by actor purely by just like the actual character in this movie I think I would go with bud. He's pretty awful when you think about it. He beats people up. He does literally nothing legally. He just breaks down doors without warrants. He shot that man. He killed that. Yeah, he murdered somebody in cold blood and then covered it up to make it seem like he was being shot at. He found dead bodies under a house and did nothing about it because his ex-partner might have been implicated. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: No, he's literally an executioner. Yeah. Justin Weakley: And then he beats up Lynn. He literally is a woman beater. ⁓ He's pretty awful, all things considered. And I guess you could say that he kind of has somewhat of redemption at the end, but like, does he? It's like... Zachary Wheeler: I think his redeeming factor is like he's doing all this like every time he does something evil or not evil but corrupt and violent usually he's doing it because he really really really hates women beaters like if you're beating a woman he is going to like see red and just that's what happens in the interrogation scene they figure out that they like Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yes. Zachary Wheeler: sexually assaulted a woman and he's like, where is she? I'm off the handles now. I can't, I can't like let the normal procedure figure this out. Like we got to figure it out now and it's going to be at, you know, the barrel of my gun or the knuckles of my fist. But yeah, I agree with you. He's, he's not a good guy. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. He's yeah, just overall. I mean, yeah, again, I guess you could say that when he teams up with. Actually, at the end, you know, maybe he has a little bit of a redemption, but that's like saying, OK, don't be wrong. I love Anakin. I love Darth Vader. But just because he killed Palpatine, does that mean that he's cleared of his sins? He he he committed. Yeah, I was going to say he committed genocide. We all love. Zachary Wheeler: What about the 1 billion people and all the run humor? You Justin Weakley: We all love Darth Vader, but like, was he really a good guy? It's the same thing with Bud, right? Like, is he really a good guy when he's done all these things? And yes, he does terrible things to terrible people, but that in turn, he's not a good guy. He's... Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. He's competent, right? He actually figures stuff out, but he still is not a good... Not what you want on the police force. Justin Weakley: Yeah. But I think you probably could make the case that so many other so many of the cops, like, for example, when they when they go ⁓ to track down the three black dudes when they escape and they all go off their separate ways, but actually goes to that apartment building with I think it's is it one or two other cops? You can make the. Yeah. Wait, was it that? Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, I think it was the two cops that planted the guns. One of the two cops that planted the guns. Which is why I think he shoots too. Because he's trying to like cover it up. Justin Weakley: Was it that scene? No, no, no, I'm sorry. Sorry. I was jumping ahead. Wrong scene. It was a different scene with another incompetent cop with a shotgun. When they when they first find the guys because they find the car and they're trying to track down these three suspects, they tie it back to the car and they already find those other two cops that are there. And they're like, ⁓ yeah, they're upstairs when they bust in the door. Zachary Wheeler: Yes. Justin Weakley: You can make a case that the first cop he busts in he literally is about to shoot this man who's sleeping on a couch with a shotgun Probably like five feet away. Exley. Thank god throws his gun up in the air and he shoots the ceiling Right, you can make the case that that dude is the worst character in the movie there they're How you could break down a door and just start shooting they're all really bad but I in terms of Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, and. Yeah, guys, saves, yeah. He's definitely the worst cop, one the worst cops. Justin Weakley: Who do we get to know the most? Bud has the most screen time out of all of the corrupt cops. ⁓ So he might be my worst, but they're all equally pretty terrible. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, Bud's like a morally righteous corrupt cop, where like everyone else is just more amoral corrupt. Justin Weakley: Hmm. He's a vigilante, like in, but almost, okay, like, you know, it's funny when we have vigilantes like Deadpool, and they're like, ⁓ this is really entertaining. It's not supposed to be serious. This movie is supposed to be serious. It's like, dude, you're doing some really heinous shit. Like, I don't know if I can get on board with this. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. So, alright, what about, I'm throw two other names out there. Danny DeVito's character. Hush hush guy. Like, I don't know, he's whatever. Justin Weakley: He's yeah, he's just there. He really I really I had as a nip Zachary Wheeler: Danny DeVita is an odd choice. It's very 90s. He's almost distracting when he's on the screen. Justin Weakley: It is. think, yeah, I feel like his character. Yeah, I really they stopped doing it. They did it really hard in the first part of the movie where his character had like the monologues. And. Exactly, and you could hear him like typing on the old old timey typewriter in the background. It felt extremely cartoony and just goofy. And it threw me off because I was like, what? Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, the narration of his writing. Justin Weakley: What kind of direction are we trying to go in? Is this supposed to be serious or a little bit more kind of silly? But I think it's because of Danny DeVito. I can't take him seriously. He's very goofy. Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ Alright, what about Kim Basing? Justin Weakley: Also equally terrible. You would have my vote for both of those. I would vote for both as Boris' character. Zachary Wheeler: Like, my thing with Kim Basinger character is it's not a character. Like, she barely is in the movie and when she is in, she's more sex appeal than like actual personality. At least in my opinion. ⁓ How every guy interacts with her, I don't understand. Like, her relationship with Bud and he's been like, he basically meets her at a Justin Weakley: Hmm. Zachary Wheeler: what, a liquor store? Justin Weakley: Yeah, liquor store, yeah. Zachary Wheeler: then he tracks her down and then is like stalking her outside her house and she sees him in his car. And then eventually, like one day he walks up and she's like, I don't know why I love you. And he's like, I don't know why I love you too. And we're love. And I'm like, what are we talking about? Like, why is everyone so intoxicated by her? And she like, for some reason likes Bud, but hasn't said six words to her other than like, hey, Merry Christmas. Justin Weakley: You Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Like, it was so weird. Then you're to your point, the Guy Pearce interaction, Guy Pearce walks in and he's like, what do you know about Bud? And she's like, I don't know. He's like, okay, I'm just gonna start kissing you. And you're like, what? I'm like. Justin Weakley: Yeah, it's it's almost like it reminds me of like Harry Potter or something with like the love potions. Yeah, it's like when these men get in her orbit, they are just like, ⁓ they're in a trance. I true. It felt like her character. It's almost like they had they had an obligation in the script to say, hey, we have to have a love story in here. And her relationship. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, I just... Yeah. I-I- Justin Weakley: just her character in general to your point, but her relationship with Bud felt so shoehorned in there. I didn't understand the point. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, and it doesn't really serve a purpose other than at one point to kind of drive a wedge between Guy Pearce and and Russell Crowe or like Because like the the guy who's her I don't know like Who runs the Florida Lee? ⁓ Agency yeah, yeah, there you go. Yeah the guy who runs that agency like Justin Weakley: Hmm. The pimp. He's the pimp. Zachary Wheeler: Kim Basinger brings nothing to what's discovered about that agency. The girl who's murdered, looks like Laura Lynn or whatever, whoever they said it was, she's driving more of the plot and she's murdered. And then the guy who plays Pimp, he's driving more of the plot, but Kim Basinger's not at all. Justin Weakley: you Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: just don't understand. Like to me, it's almost like they needed, it was a remnant from the book to your point. So they cut out a lot of stuff, a lot of different subplots. It's a remnant from the book and they wanted to have like a bombshell ⁓ the movie poster to sell the movie. ⁓ somehow she wins the Academy Award for this. didn't. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when you that's yeah, you bring up a great point when you the cover that the post the movie poster for this she is front and center. It's it's like she was included just for marketing almost. But yeah, they I actually had it under it could have been a nitpick, but I had it under age the worst. But it goes in with this because we're talking about Lynn. But yeah, they're but in Lynn's relationship. Zachary Wheeler: She's fine, but... Justin Weakley: feels so out of place. So he goes over to her house to ask her some questions. I can't remember what she says, but he gets kind of curt with her and he's like, do not bribe me. And he is just kind of a turd. But as he's going to leave her house, there has been no sign whatsoever of him being interested in her. ⁓ He just turns around and he says, I want to see you again. And she just asks. She asked this simple question, is this a date or an appointment? And then he like, he flips around, he says, nevermind, it was a mistake. And then he like storms off. I think I actually threw my hands up and was like, what just happened? Where did this relationship? Yeah, and then, but like to make it worse, it's like they doubled down on like, there is this. Zachary Wheeler: She's like, don't know or something. You I Justin Weakley: you know, underlying attraction and passion between these two characters. And he shows up again to her house randomly. And he was like, I wondered when I'd see you again. And then they just have sex and then they're together. And at no point during any of their initial interactions was I was like, yeah, those two. That's our love story front and center right there. It just came out of left field. And I don't know. It really felt so. shoehorned in that it just didn't make any sense. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, I completely agree. I feel like any relationship that she had, was like, why are the people acting the way they do around her? It's not her fault. It's not the actress's fault. I think Kim Basinger is fine in the movie. I just don't understand the interactions with her. And again, maybe we're missing something. Justin Weakley: Yeah, Guy Pierce like... No. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: as non-film critics and non-film buffs and people who weren't in our 30s or 40s in the 90s watching this for the first time. Like, I don't know. Maybe we're just missing something. I just, I don't get why she won the Academy Award. I don't know. You know, in her defense, I don't know who she was up against. Right? Maybe she was up against, you know, I don't know. Justin Weakley: Yeah. because it was a supporting actress. It wasn't best actress. So. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, it's a porn actress, like, I don't know the role, but I'm like, I'm just thinking off the top of my head, the 97 movies out there, like. Justin Weakley: There's a lot. You're not going to tell me that she beats Diz from Starship Troopers. I will not. I don't accept that. Zachary Wheeler: I was going to say the fifth element, the blue singing lady who gets to who has this stuff in her. I'm like, that woman is incredible for the 30 seconds she's on the screen. You know, I don't know. Justin Weakley: yeah yeah absolutely i yeah i give it to her no no no shade to kim besinger besan besinger i don't know how pronounce yeah she was fine yeah it's just i think how her character was written and just her involvement in the movie but i i would agree i think i'm i'm on board to label her worst character Zachary Wheeler: Basinger? I don't know either, Matthew. I mean, like, yeah, yeah, okay. We'll give it to Kim. Sorry. You get the Academy Award from your peers and you get the worst character from Popcorn and Pals. All right. All right, let's age the best. My list is not super long. Justin Weakley: Congratulations, we'll send you a medal. no, I only had one. ⁓ Guy Pearce, Russell Crowe, and unfortunately, Kevin Spacey. I thought they were all phenomenal. I think like, I was reading, I know you read it too. ⁓ They were, Guy Pearce and Russell Crowe specifically were like unknown in America at the time. weren't, And so I think it just said like one of the film's producers or backers or somebody had it. Concerns that because they were unknown the movie might not perform super well ⁓ But that was unfounded movie did great got great reviews all the things right and I think it's because they are so good I mean like yeah, there are some initial hiccups like getting out of the starting gate but I think as the movie progresses, they're all so strong and especially at a time where like yeah, they I don't this is probably like their first big appearance and you know the American market and I it established them clearly because like you said Russell Crowe after this what two years later went on to make gladiator Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, I think it's 99. think maybe it's a little maybe it's four years later. I think it's 2001 actually I've thought my head but Four years he's gladiator right and then memento is a couple years after this. think too. I think that's 99 like Justin Weakley: But I'm sure that, yeah. Yeah, like I know this movie probably propped them up to snag some of those other roles where they went on to be really, really memorable, but... Zachary Wheeler: Especially or especially Russell Crowe. Yeah. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean they all three of them. They're really really good in this movie I really like I didn't outside of Danny DeVito ⁓ Which through no fault of his own I think it's just who he just plays what he knows But the majority of the actors and actresses in this movie were really good, but those three They were phenomenal. They were really good Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. The highlight of this movie, I think, is the acting. For sure. ⁓ I had just like noir movies in general. think noir is great. It always works. Like. It's fun. ⁓ I had like 1950s Hollywood is like a backdrop to the movie, like 19. I don't know. Like it works in this movie. I think. ⁓ Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it's really fun. Zachary Wheeler: Like the kind of the Rat Pack era is just such a fun era to explore. Justin Weakley: Yeah, I would agree. It's a fun time, especially because it's... I don't you're coming off the heels of World War II where it's so different. Like the theater of war and then you have the glitz and glamour of like golden age Hollywood. It's really fun. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, and America's in a boom time, right? Like everything is, yeah, everyone's making money and starting businesses and you know, America like rarely becomes the world leader in the 1950s. And it's just like, yeah, it's a fun backdrop. I don't have anything else that age the best though. mean like the movie's fine. But those are the couple things I had in my mind. I the actors to your point and then maybe some of the setting of the movie. All right, age the worst. Justin Weakley: Mm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, no, no. Yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. I would agree. ⁓ I had two, they were kind of silly, yeah. So some of the sound effects were, ⁓ especially you notice them very early in the movie when bud beats up that dude who's beating up his wife. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just some of those. Yeah. Like the it's, it's funny. I feel like this, and it's a remnant of this era of Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, the punching sounds, yeah. And things. Matrix is two years away, by the way. Justin Weakley: like movie making, it's like the sound design teams all had the same sound board and they all use the same sound for punching. It just sounds unnatural. It sounds kind of cartoony, but just by modern standards, you hear it and you're like, ⁓ yeah, that's that fake punch noise. ⁓ And then. I mean, I will say it watching Kevin Spacey convince a young homosexual guy to go have a sexual tryst with like an old man. I don't know. was like, oh, this feels. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: No, Kevin Spacey ages. He is the winner of this category. Like what is age the worst Kevin Spacey? just. Yeah. Justin Weakley: Like there is, okay, like you go into it and we're not gonna get political or anything like that, but you go into it and you're like, ⁓ Kevin Spacey's in here. And then you watch it and it's really good and he's really good. You gotta give him credit where it's due. But I don't know, it was just funny watching that whole scene go down for his character specifically. was like, ⁓ God. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: It's no good. Well, it's no bueno. Justin Weakley: What did you have? Zachary Wheeler: some bad ADR. I don't know if you noticed it Maybe it was just my ⁓ I was watching it, but there was some pretty bad ADR over some of the scenes ⁓ had on that. I had the fit the physical abuse of when ⁓ ⁓ Bud hits Lynn it's like yeah, that's not agent well Justin Weakley: Hmm, I think I'm yeah Mmm, as is tough on the watch I always you know, I'll be honest I I couldn't watch it. I saw him like walking up to her at a brisk pace. I was like I'm do it. It's tough. It's tough Zachary Wheeler: There's one scene in it now granted it is the 50s I think it's supposed to be playing on this but I lived in LA in the 90s so I have some level of authority on this I feel like but there's a scene There was like an advertisement for LA in the movie and it says land is cheap Every working man can have a home in Los Angeles. It's like Justin Weakley: Mm. Hmm. Yeah. Nah man. Even in the 50s. Zachary Wheeler: No. That does not age well. I lived in LA in the 90s and it was, mean, my parents bought a house and everything and it was a nice house and my dad was in management at the time and he a good job for sure and it was, said, but the house that we owned, like, But when we left LA and it was like 10 years later, I was like, my dad's like, we couldn't even move back to the same house we owned 10 years ago in LA because it's so crazy expensive there. And now it's even worse. Like it's just insane. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah, I can't fathom living in California. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, home prices in LA, the worst for sure. But I think Kevin Spacey wins this category, like hands down, just the worst. He is the worst. It's no good. Justin Weakley: Yeah, yeah, sorry Kevin Zachary Wheeler: All right. Anything else for Aves Oars? Justin Weakley: No, no, that was it. Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ What are they talking about WTF are they talking about? What do get? Justin Weakley: So I didn't have specific words, but I had two phrases that I just never heard before. I thought they were interesting. So when Dudley first is like recruiting Bud, it's after the bloody Christmas testimony scene. And they're sitting at, I don't know if it's a bar or restaurant, but he asked Bud if he gets his drift and Bud replies in technicolor, sir, which. Zachary Wheeler: He he. Justin Weakley: I get it. know it means like I know crystal clear. I understand what you're saying, but I've never heard that phrase before in Technicolor, sir. I thought that was interesting. And then. Yeah. No, exactly. But it was just, yeah, it was just I feel like I want to start using that now in Technicolor, ⁓ And then the second one, ⁓ when Exley is doing the interrogation scene on the suspects, he's trying to. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Probably meant more in the 50s, you know, like when Technicolor was a new thing. Yeah. There you go. Justin Weakley: He's trying to crack one of the guys and he tells him that if he was younger, he could have gone to regular prison and he would have got himself a sissy. And the guy says, the guy says, I don't truck with sissies that specific term truck with sissies never heard it. I think we all know what sissy means in this context, but I've never heard truck. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, I have. I think in that scene too, they call one of them a switch. And I think it also means like to, you know, do prison stuff. don't know. Yeah. And so like, there definitely, there's some homophobia in that scene that I did not, yeah. I was picking up on the language, but it was new to me too. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but Mm-hmm. Yeah, like you definitely you get the context of everything but just some of those specific phrases I like, I've never heard that before. I don't truck with sissies. I don't I don't truck with that crap. I'm gonna start saying that too. I don't truck with that. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Yeah, was one of them that says like, want a Brace Stompando or something. I don't know, there was some like name they used. I didn't know what it meant. I didn't look it up. And then the one for me that I was like, I've heard this a thousand times and there's shows about it. I'm like, you know, I really don't know what it means. Maybe this is just because I'm stupid or don't watch a lot of like Law and Order or something. But one of them was like, Justin Weakley: Mm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: they kept referring to people who work for Vice and in the police department, I'm like, okay, I get what homicide is. I get what the narcotics is, but I'm like, I'm actually not quite sure I know what Vice investigates. So I looked it up, but it was interesting. like, I'm gonna look that up now. I'm I'm 36 years old. I should know what this is. It's been in pop culture forever. Justin Weakley: Mm. Mm. Yeah. Enlighten me because I feel like my only familiarity is Miami Vice. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, so it has to, it's like, like, um... I don't know the right word. Because it's not sex crimes like SVU, but it's like looking into like sex workers and things like that. that side of the investigation, the extortion, human trafficking, sex work and stuff like that is what they investigate. But I had no idea. I was like, huh, interesting. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, interesting. I didn't either, I didn't know that. Zachary Wheeler: All right, anything else yet? Yeah, it was probably, like I said, the movie's from 97, so they kept the language, I think. And again, if they used language from the 50s, it's like obvious to what they're saying today. Justin Weakley: No. Yeah, I think there was another thing about it. Really the only other thing that they referenced a lot of Hollywood actresses when they talked about the sexworkers that were made to look, but they use their names very frequently. I was completely checked out. I know who these people are and they throw them out. Yeah, they throw them out. ⁓ Yeah, they out these names so quickly. Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. That's why we're in this podcast, Come back in a year. We're going to get some of them. Justin Weakley: And then, I don't know, everything starts to bleed over because then they start talking about names of suspects and names of leads and I was like, dude, I can't look up all these people, man. That's just too much going on. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. There's a movie I watched, and it's about real people, but it's All the President's Men. Are you familiar with it? It's Robert Redford and Rain Man. But it doesn't happen, thank you. And they're investigating Watergate, basically. Justin Weakley: I feel like I've heard of it, but I've never... I've never seen it. Dustin. ⁓ fun. Zachary Wheeler: and they work for the Washington Post and they're based on two real people that kind of broke the Watergate story. ⁓ Justin Weakley: Hmm. Zachary Wheeler: It's interesting. So I had not learned a lot about Watergate. And I feel like we're in like a Watergate like kind of golden age where there's a bunch of television shows made on it nowadays. But when I first watched that movie, I had no idea really much about it. I just knew the movie was supposed to be good. And I was like, OK, well, I'll learn about Watergate. I'll watch it. The whole movie is like from the writer's perspective. So they're always talking about things. They're not like Justin Weakley: Yeah. ⁓ Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: bringing in flashbacks or stuff like that. And so they're always using names to describe things. I'm like, well, if you're watching this movie in the seventies, right after Watergate, and all these people are in the newspaper and all these people like, you know the names. As like a, you know, 21 year old kid in, you know, in the 2010s, I was like, I don't, I don't really know these names. I was like, I have no idea what's going on in this movie. I cannot follow this movie at all. They're talking about like, you know, so and so and this and that. And I'm like, who was that? Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: What is their job? Like you gotta follow it with like who it is, their relationship to Nixon and what their job was, because I don't know any of these names. That's kind how you feel in this movie. Like they're bringing in all these names when you're like, I can't keep track of, and most of the time it really doesn't matter, right? Like when it comes down to it, like it really doesn't matter what the names are because they're all red herrings for what's really happening. yeah, there is a lot of names. I agree with you. Justin Weakley: Hmm. Yeah. Yeah, lot of names for sure. Zachary Wheeler: All right, hot takes. You kind of stole one of mine with the Russell Crowe thing. I was like, does he deserve to be suspended? He does, right? Justin Weakley: Hot takes and nitpicks. I've got I've got a few Why don't we go we'll go tip for tat I'll do one you do one because I bet you have some too. Okay first one Maybe this hits harder because we both have been in the corporate America world for a decade plus now, but how the the fact that it's actually Zachary Wheeler: Okay. Justin Weakley: pitched an idea to his superiors and that got him a promotion from literally the front desk to lieutenant detective that completely outlandish. There's no way that you jump that you make that career jump just by pitching an idea out of the gate. was like, dude, where did this come from? How did this dude is literally covering night shift on the front desk? But now it yeah, exactly. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ that's how I went from intern to vice president. You didn't know that? At my company? Yeah, right. Justin Weakley: It was just funny. It's like this dude and like, yeah, don't know. His dad had some clout and you know, people know his dad or whatever, but it was a pretty big jump. And then before you know it, he's leading the entire detective force on this big murder case. But that was my number. That was one for me. Zachary Wheeler: Nah, that's a good nitpick. Yeah. Well, it just shows how corrupt they are, right? Justin Weakley: Apparently, I mean, and I will say his his idea was good, right? Because, yes, there's the downside of like, well, he's not like doing the right thing, because he's trying to punish and get the people fired who already have their pensions and like, they're old, and they're on their way out the door anyway. So you're not holding, you know, certain people accountable, you're shoving it off to people who it just doesn't matter. but he does try to get Bud and Stens fired, which by all accounts, they deserve to be fired. So he goes back to that one, like, actually he is good for the most part morally, but he does do things to progress his own career path. It opens up on that scene and boy, does he progress that career. Zachary Wheeler: The the one I had so the scene when bud walks in to in question when And he walks into his house and there's like the the da guy there or whatever Well, not the a guy but he's like a councilman and yeah He walks out and she walks in and there's like a movie playing in the room, right and she pulls the screen up It's in the middle of the room the screen in her ceiling is a is like a pulled down screen. I'm like Justin Weakley: Hmm. Oh yeah, yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: That's in your living room. You just have this thing bolted to your ceiling at all times. I kept looking for it later in the movie to see if the camera would catch it. I was like, this is like, that's a weird thing to have in your house. I don't know. It's not like. Justin Weakley: Yeah. See? Yeah. it is. her house was exceptionally ornate too. i know she was a high-scale Sexworker but her door was like a medieval castle door. she had a fireplace that was as big as my living room. it was an exceptional room and apparently a ⁓ movie theater screen right in middle of her living room. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. ⁓ yeah, no. Swanky house, for sure. just remember in LA the land is cheap and every working man can have a home there so even sex working people. Justin Weakley: ⁓ It all ties in it all circles back. ⁓ Yeah, great point Zachary Wheeler: But yeah, was the first thing. I was like, this is a goofy thing to have in the house. I'm like, if it was like on a stand or something, she's like brought it out for whatever the client wants, I get it. But it's in her ceiling. I'm like, okay. Justin Weakley: Mmm, it isn't yeah, that's yeah, that's a point. I Can't wait to pitch that to my wife. Hey, we need to put a Movie theater screen. Yeah. Yeah Maybe she's onto something ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: ruins, kind of ruin the aesthetic of the house, but okay. It's in the middle of the room too, it's not even against the wall, it's just floating in the room. ⁓ Justin Weakley: Okay, here's my second one. And I you keep me honest on this because I don't think I missed anything, but I very well could have missed something. Okay, so after Exley sleeps with Lynn and Bud ambushes Exley and beats him up, right? He finds the pictures. This would imply that Bud knew that Exley knew about his relationship with Lynn because Clearly he thinks that X Lee did this on purpose Which by all accounts he did but X Lee did this on purpose to get to bud How but how would bud know that I guess I? Was super confused by that Yeah Zachary Wheeler: Maybe just assuming it, yeah. Or he was just, he flies off the handle so much, maybe he just sees the photos and he's just like, all right, I'm tired of that, I can't even. Justin Weakley: He does. I mean, it'd be one thing if Bud strolled into the PD and was like, hey, I got a new girlfriend. Her name is Lynn and here's a picture of her. And actually it was like, ⁓ yeah, okay. Yeah, sure. Maybe I could see that. But to his knowledge, nobody knows about his relationship. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, it is weird, right? Justin Weakley: but that because he's yeah that i maybe there was something that got lost in translation from like the book adaptation but it just irked me because i was like this feels like a plot hole this feels like a Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, maybe he picked it up from because he goes to see Lynn first right where he hits her and she's like I did this for you I thought I was doing this for you. We talked about like I think she says like we talked about you were something and because he because because he comes in or Lynn is like Lynn says he was asking about you. So maybe that's where he picks it up So you didn't watch that scene because you were too, you know, too sensitive. You're too sensitive. You're such a sensitive soul Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Mmm, yeah. Yeah, I didn't didn't I Didn't want to see him beating up this woman. Yeah, no, I could have Hmm no that yeah, there was a lot of rage in bud and It just at the time it seemed unwarranted. But yeah, it probably was that scene of her saying something to tip him off that actually knew but Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, I think Lynn tells him it. think maybe that's where it is. I don't know. Yeah. Justin Weakley: Well, okay, then ⁓ that negates my nitpick because then it explains itself. Thank you very much, Zachary. Yeah, you have to keep each other accountable. Zachary Wheeler: Sorry, well you know, have to nitpick the nitpicks, okay? That's part of this game. Yeah. No, I had, I put the rogue cops down here too, cause like, these cops are, to your point, right? The worst police department on the planet. They're all like, none of this would hold up in court. You beat a guy, his confessions are useless. You know? You, you like... Justin Weakley: Mm. you Zachary Wheeler: It just becomes extortion. cannot believe anything. They're the worst cops. There's nothing like they have to execute people because they couldn't put people away in prison because they would not hold up in court at all. No one's bringing in Bud and be like, all right, here's the witness. And this is, you know, we'll get the police's statement in there because like Bud's like, yeah, I beat the shit out of him because he was beating his wife and I handcuffed him to the side of a building. He's like, yeah, okay. Arrest Bud, please. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Did they? You Zachary Wheeler: He's getting arrested in there telling his story. Justin Weakley: Did they say if from the bloody Christmas incident if those suspects were killed or not? if they were just like beaten really badly? Because if- Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, I don't know. They kind of alluded to that they weren't even the right people. Justin Weakley: Yeah, if those guys survived, I just can't, I could not imagine the day in court to say, yeah, we were attacked by literally the entire police force and there's photo evidence that made the newspapers. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, do. Yeah, I do wonder because this is pretty this is right after L.A. had a pretty bad corruption, you know, moment in history, the Rodney King stuff. I wonder if that's like what kind of ⁓ what made the movie seem more relevant to a lot of people and a lot like we're so far removed from that and we were so young when it happened. Justin Weakley: Mmm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: that that LA corruption kind of stuff doesn't sit as topical to us. But I wonder at the moment, they'd be like, wow, this is like an allegory for, know, stuff that goes on today. And honestly, there is still a lot of that goes on today. You know, we see it all the time. So, but maybe being closer to home to LA and having that moment. ⁓ I do wonder if that was part of why I was so acclaimed. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, good point. Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ What else you got? Justin Weakley: ⁓ This is my last one and you can't you can't buck me on this because it's just total opinion How the hell is Bud alive at the end of the movie? So He gets he got shot. I think he was shot in the arm. I could be wrong He definitely got shot two to three times mid-mass and this would take but body armor did not exist back then so you can Zachary Wheeler: Okay, bye. He got shot in cheek, you know? He's fine. Yeah. He's wearing like a white collar shirt with a tie. Justin Weakley: Yeah, you you can't tell me you get shot in the chest that does not hit any vital organ and then you get shot in the face and like I get it it goes through your cheek you probably messed up all his teeth and his mouth clearly. It's just sitting back there moping and pouting. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, he didn't talk at the end, so he's clearly wired shut. You Justin Weakley: Like I actually got a little bit angry when X Lee walked out because they kind of set it up that bud died right like X Lee walks he it yeah he he walks out of ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ no, I had no idea that Bud was gonna be there. Justin Weakley: I can't remember what the building was, but he walks out arm in arm with ⁓ Lynn, which I was like, don't tell me that they're going to be in a relationship now. And then you see Bud back in the car, somehow alive with a gauze over his face. And I said, get out of here. What you mean this man's alive? That was my big nitpick. I was like, there's no way. Zachary Wheeler: I agree. I agree with you. It's almost like they focus tested and they're like, Fin Sands already died. We can't have two of them leads die. So they were like, all right, we'll just throw them in the end. like, yep, pull through. What a guy. Justin Weakley: I think if this was a ⁓ like cop movie where they had like body armor, absolutely. I can buy getting shot in the mouth and you survive. Yeah, 100%, but nah, I'm not sold. He's dead. He's dead in a doornail in my book. ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Hehehehehe That's funny. So I have the end. So my biggest nitpick is like the logic of everyone at the end of this movie. So to start with the final shootout, the police chief, right? He's like taking out people left and right to like clean up his story and cut loose ends. Eight dudes, had a count going. Eight guys show up in the shootout at the end of it. Justin Weakley: Hmm. Zachary Wheeler: Who are these eight guys, these eight other police officers or these eight other loose ends? I'm like, how many people know about your crime organization and that you've already taken out like all the big players? So now you just got the grunts who don't matter, like who have no financial investment in this other than like, they're one, you know, bribe away from telling everyone that you're the corrupt police chief. There's eight dudes at the end. like, ⁓ my God, there's a lot of... Justin Weakley: Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: This organization is expansive. He's already killed like 10 people. And... I'm like, there's eight more here. There's 18 dudes in the police department that are involved in this, into a level where they're willing to go kill someone for him. So that was my first one. was like, ugh, come on. This organization's falling apart in five minutes. This guy cannot keep this together. And then... Go ahead. Justin Weakley: man. He had eight boyos on his side. Zachary Wheeler: I'm just saying like there was this was an expansive organization and I'm like there's no way he's holding it together for much longer Next Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, it's a great point. Zachary Wheeler: was Guy Pearce's like tactic and like rationale at end. He's like, because everyone's like, well, we can't show how corrupt we are. You know, this is going to take down the whole force. And he's like, well, then make me, you know, whatever he want. Police chief extraordinaire, whatever he negotiated. Yeah, super special police chief. And he's like, yep, yeah, that guy was a hero. And we stopped legitimate crime in this country or in the city. OK. Justin Weakley: Super special police cheat. You Zachary Wheeler: He is supposed to be altruistic, right? He's supposed to be the one who's like, am a real cop. When it comes down to it, say, I'll get the promotion. Like we stopped the bad guy, so I'll get the promotion. We'll say this, but we stopped the crime. Like I'm the real cop. I actually did the real cop thing. How this organization was expansive as we just established. So there's murders happening all over the place. He's doing like crime, like a... ⁓ Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: organized crime. So you know he's killed innocent people. So there's all kinds of unsolved cases related to this that they just swept under the rug. There's people going home every single day going my loved one is dead and we cannot solve this crime and the cop who's supposed to be the one good cop just covered it all up. And so like I guess they're just gonna have a series of unsolved crimes related to his organization because they didn't let it actually come out. You know I'm like I'm like, really? I'm like, are you a good cop? just... There's people who are going to continue every day not knowing what happened, you know? Not having the police follow up on what they, you know. Like, you're just making it worse, Guy Pearce, okay? Like, you think you're doing the right thing. You think you stopped everything, but like, the corruption continues. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, I actually thought like even at the end of the movie But I would hate to be a citizen in their like jurisdiction that did you imagine these are the people who are protecting you and who are serving out justice God You you call the cops and here they come bud bust through your front door kicks it in and then before you know it you're shot in the face, I mean Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ no, that's... no good. you Yeah, he's putting a gun on your fingerprints on a gun, you know? Justin Weakley: I feel the worst for the citizens of Los Angeles in this movie. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, no ⁓ kidding. I'm gonna have to go move to the Midwest or something. I don't think the Midwest was any better back then with Organize. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Hmm. ⁓ Speaking of Midwest, we didn't do the sequel. Or what happens the next day? Or do you have any more Hot Takes nitpicks? Zachary Wheeler: City of Angels. ⁓ ⁓ yeah, we skipped sequel. No, no, I'm sorry, I totally, I can't believe we missed it. All right, let's go do it. We'll do it now. Justin Weakley: Okay, so I have something different for you. Because the sequel would be boring. would be Exley goes to Arizona and the snooze, I'm asleep. Yeah, yeah, Bud goes and beats Lynn every night because he's a piece of shit. No, here's what I would want to see. Because this movie takes place in 1951. We can say... Zachary Wheeler: Okay. Bud's physical therapy routine. You Justin Weakley: with probably a decent amount of assumption that bud probably fought in world war ii there's probably a lot of them that fought in world war ii i want to see a prequel that explains how and why bud became such an efficient murderer whether he was like, you know, some World War Two secret agent or, you know, something, but something that explains. mean, yes, we know that he has mommy and daddy issues that his dad beat his mom or kill his mom. I don't know. I don't care. I don't care about that. I want to know how he got those directs hand to hand combat skills and how he was just beating the shit out of everybody, because that could be a fun story. But. Zachary Wheeler: Arsh. Yeah, no, I think it would be interesting to yeah like a bud prequel or an x-ley prequel. He's just very studious in school, but He's like one day i'm gonna make lieutenant Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. He's just a nerd that gets picked on. They throw his glasses so he can't get them. Okay, also, let me say, I will say this, I'm gonna be a little prejudiced here for a second. I actually took a lot of offense at the beginning of the movie when everybody made fun of Exley for his glasses because... ⁓ Zachary Wheeler: Okay, that was also in my nitpicks. thought like this glasses have to account for something. Everyone is giving him so much shit. He's taking them on and off. It gets brought up so many times. It means nothing other than... Justin Weakley: It means nothing, yeah. They just picked on him just to be mean. And as somebody who has to have corrective lenses to be able to see, I think I'm probably legally blind if I don't have my contacts or glasses on. I took offense to that. And he even, he is, ⁓ they're approaching the guys, the suspects of the Night Owl murders, they're approaching the car. Zachary Wheeler: Hahaha Justin Weakley: and he pulls his gun when he's standing next to Vincennes and he puts his glasses on and Vincennes is like, ⁓ really? It's like dude, wait, what do you mean? If you can't see shit and you're gonna try to go in here and possibly get in a shootout, don't talk trash about my glasses. Zachary Wheeler: No, they're giving shit to everyone's glasses and everyone's tie is like seven or eight inches above their waist. I'm like lower your... like the ties are what looks the worst you big dorks. Justin Weakley: Man, it was just like that old school bullying like, the glasses nerd. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. I know, I thought it was going to amount to something. I thought he was going to stick him on. He was going to be able to shoot something that, you know, and he's like, yeah, glasses bitch, you know, and like shoot him or something. I don't know. But like never turned up, never came back. You know, kind of gets forgot about like three quarters of the way through the movie. But OK, those come up a lot, though. Justin Weakley: You it yeah it does but yeah i don't know maybe a prequel because i feel like Zachary Wheeler: No, think a prequel is a really interesting way to take this movie, because I really don't, I mean... Yeah, the movie kind of ends in like, obviously, Vin Sands is dead. Like, Bud is off with Lin and he's left the police department and, you know, he's going through physical therapy the rest of his life. And then, I mean, actually he's there. I guess he's like taking down more corruption. But I think, yeah, I think to your point, Bud's origin story would be really interesting. Like, how did you get to this place where you were so... Justin Weakley: Hmm. Mm-hmm. Zachary Wheeler: violent and yet you still have this like I would say righteousness to you. Justin Weakley: Yeah, because he is, outside of him being violent, you have to give his character credit to being extremely effective. He is very good at what he does. He whoops some ass throughout that movie. So yeah, I think you could take it. Let's not do a sequel. Let's do a prequel and let's figure out and understand how and why Bud became so effective. So that's my take. Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. He does. Yeah, I like that call good job All right, can't we missed that scene missed that category. Sorry. It's my bad That's a fun one all right Should this be a classic? One of the you know highest rated movies of all time Justin Weakley: It's a lesser category, but still fun from time to time. Zachary Wheeler: I completely agree. It's the same. There's so many noir movies that are so similar to this one. I don't even know why it stands on the shoulders. It's not even the best movie of 97. It's not even maybe the top five movie of 97 for me. Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. And I don't know, maybe it's because we have grown up with, you know, movies that have just done it better, maybe, I don't know, and shows too. We've grown up in the era where, you know, a good HBO show will blur the lines between, you know, film and TV. But no, I agree. When I got done watching it, it was fine. You know, it just, I think... Zachary Wheeler: It's a good way to spend two and a half hours. Justin Weakley: Again, yeah, again, I think going into it under the notion of this movie is in the upper echelon of movies. It just didn't meet those expectations for me. And I just kept thinking to myself, if I really wanted like a good murder mystery cop thriller movie, I have probably a billion choices that I could watch that would probably be better than this. Or just more entertaining or more in line with what I, you know, prefer. ⁓ It was fine. It was really good. ⁓ But yeah, I maybe we're in the minority on this. You know what I did? I actually, I wanted to find like minded ⁓ pessimists like myself. Zachary Wheeler: Mm-hmm. Justin Weakley: I tried to go on Reddit. I couldn't find anything. Everybody loves this movie. There's tons of Reddit threads about how good this movie is. And I really struggled. I found like one user submitted article on IMDB about the most overrated movies of all time. And this made that list. And that was just some random dude out there on the internet or girl. I don't know, but it's everybody loves it. And I just didn't feel the same way. Zachary Wheeler: No, I I mean look I liked it it was fine, but I said it was fine but like It's not it's not a Like a lot of times we go is should it be a classic? We're like, well, I see why it's a classic I see why we you know, we should give you know Philadelphia story a chance right? You know, it wasn't for us But like I don't know why this is a classic like I don't know why this is so highly regarded now that's maybe Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah. I think. Zachary Wheeler: Again, this is why we start off with our unqualified X because we are so unqualified. But this is not it for me. Justin Weakley: Yeah. I you raised a good point pretty early on. you... I know we should take works of art for what they are and not compare it, but it's difficult to not compare it when it came in a year where there were so many other good movies, right? Like when you look at some of the other movies that we've talked about on this podcast... It seemed like they stood out for their time. You know, comparatively, when you look at something older versus something more modern, like, yeah, you might say, the technical aspects or the this or that the script writing the acting, but for what it was in its time, it was really good. It did something that wasn't being done before. ⁓ Case in point, ⁓ an American in Paris wasn't for me, but I really appreciate it. I respect it. This L.A. confidential. I feel like I struggle with it because I look at what its peers were doing in that same time frame and it's like, dude, this is, y'all are just behind. You put it perfectly. It seems like a movie that came out in the early nineties. ⁓ That feels like that's what it should have been. When you have Titanic, for God's sake, that came out this like within months and everything about it was just more sweeping. It was more emotional. It was more tense. It made me feel emotions that this movie didn't and I don't even. Yeah, and so it's it's hard to put these two movies like that. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: The cinematography was better, the music was better. Good will good hunting is this year like the writing and good will hunting is better like ⁓ Justin Weakley: Mm-hmm. It's hard to put Ellie confidential in the same category as those movies let alone an all-time classic that makes you know the top 100 films list or you know, whatever AFI is I mean, it's Yeah, I don't know Just not there not there for me Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, not yeah. ⁓ Maybe we're just... I'm with you, so... Justin Weakley: That's our unqualified take. Zachary Wheeler: For sure. It is probably the most unqualified we've ever been. Yeah, we didn't... It's fine. It's just a movie. Justin Weakley: Yeah. Yeah, and I will say I Props to everybody out there that loves this movie. I'm not trying to take it from you It just it was not my cup of tea. I don't think it was your cup of tea and that's fine I think that's the beauty of ⁓ you know, everybody we all have our own opinions You like Zachary Wheeler: It was okay. Justin Weakley: Perfect. We will eventually talk about Starship Troopers and we're probably gonna gush over it and everybody's gonna be like, holy shit What are you guys talking about? That movie was terrible But but we love it Zachary Wheeler: Yeah. Hahaha Exactly. Well, we had to spoil next week's episode, but you know. Justin Weakley: Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, it'll be fine. Zachary Wheeler: Any other final thoughts? Justin Weakley: No, it was fun for what it was. It was just, I think it was overhyped for me. Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: Yeah, that's a good time. It was a good time. Yeah, I probably never watch it again, but it was good. All right. Well, ⁓ like I said last time, we have a email address if anybody wants to send us any movie recommendations or, you know, complain about how annoying we are or how many times I say the word like or how unqualified Justin is in his opinion on. ⁓ Justin Weakley: Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: on Bud White, you know, totally, totally send us an email. Our email address is ⁓ popcornandpals at gmail.com, all spelled out, all lowercase. And then we also have a YouTube channel. ⁓ popcorn and pals pod. And ⁓ yeah, so come check us out. We're trying to try to our like, you know, 10, 15 people ⁓ who have checked us out so far, you know, so. ⁓ Justin Weakley: Please let me. You Zachary Wheeler: You could be one of the early adopters, you know? Justin Weakley: trying to get we're trying to get to the to the triple digits Zachary Wheeler: There's more people that are ⁓ hosting this podcast than that listen to this podcast, but it's okay. ⁓ Justin Weakley: Yeah. Zachary Wheeler: ⁓ But anyways, ⁓ everyone, ⁓ thank you for listening and of course keep popping that popcorn.