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The Philosophy of Intersectionality · Think Twice Show

• 0:02
  Black women sit at the intersection of blackness and
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  being a woman, and those two things combine to make a unique.
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  Experience intersectionality provides allyship.
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  It helps you understand the slight nuances in those
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  experiences. I'm going to a March about
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  gentrification and I'm marching with gentrified Ricky.
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  Makes sense? They're victims of unregulated
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  capitalism, which means they have to migrate to London.
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  There's a bit of prejudice there though though from me.
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  To think you're about them, yeah.
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  Yeah, that is wrong. Yeah.
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  No, I can't. I can't help
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  you. No, no, no.
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  No, no, yo, what's going on? This is think twice.
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  Thanks for joining us. If you haven't ever watched our
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  show before, we basically discuss philosophies or the
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  morality of something or the ethics of something through the
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  lens of like a actual lived experience, like a daily life in
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  today's society. We started the show because we
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  found that philosophy often disenfranchises people like
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  myself and TEFF and regular people, although the ideas
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  affect our daily life. And so that's basically why we
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  started the show. And thank you for joining us
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  today to discuss intersectionality within the
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  lens of activism. My name is Benz.
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  My name is Santef. And this is the thing to ask
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  you. Jeez.
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  It's an intersectionality. What is it?
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  Intersectionality basically stemmed from critical race
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  theory and it was intersectional theory under the idea of
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  critical race theory. I'm not sure if I should explain
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  critical race theory but I'll do it as quickly as I can.
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  It's basically the idea that race and racism affect the
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  systems that we existed. So for people in the UK, if you
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  look to like stop and search laws, the idea that the stop and
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  search law is a fair law in, in its writing, in essence, like
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  they might be on their way to commit a crime.
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  We stopped them, we searched them, we'd find out these
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  things. And that that in essence sounds
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  OK, but it's disproportionately effects black males in the UK.
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  The law as it is, it's fine, but because it was created in a
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  system where race is prevalent, people are disproportionately
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  affected by it. Quickly part that intersectional
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  theory is basically underneath this and that's where we get
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  intersectionality from. Intersectional theory basically
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  stems from the idea and it stems from somebody called Kimberly
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  Crenshaw. And it was sort of a legal
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  framework to combat something. So in America towards the end of
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  the 19th century, basically after we had, they had the civil
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  rights movement, everyone thought they were free.
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  Basically everyone can do what they lack.
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  But it's not that simple. We've got a car company and the
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  car company hired men and they hired women to to work for this
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  company. And after I think 1964, they
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  started hiring black women, Black women before that couldn't
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  get a job there. But then a few years later there
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  was like redundancies and it was a seniority sort of
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  redundancies. So the higher you.
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  First in, first up. Exactly.
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  The higher you were, the less likely you were to lose your
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  job. But the black women have just
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  started their job and so they basically complained and filed a
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  suit because black men were always at the company, white
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  women were always at the company, and up until a certain
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  point you only hire black women. So they they had to lose their
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  jobs. Under this framework, women
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  didn't lose their jobs and men didn't just lose their jobs and
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  black people didn't lose their jobs.
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  It had to be a black, specifically a black woman that
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  lost her job. It basically spawned
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  intersectionality, and intersectionality is basically
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  how race and gender intersect to make this problem.
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  I hope I've explained it as best possible and as quickly as
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  possible without boring you, and I hope it was interesting.
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  But yeah, that's basically how we then get intersectionality.
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  Exactly. I actually like to look at
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  intersectionality like a Venn diagram.
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  So you've got a person can sit anywhere within that Venn
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  diagram and each circle is a system of of oppression.
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  So in that example, we've got gender and we've also got race.
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  Black women sit at the intersection of blackness and
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  being a woman, and those two things combine to make a unique
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  experience that black women experience that white women
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  can't experience and black men can't experience.
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  Exactly. And intersectionality is almost
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  like a lens through which we should look at oppression.
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  Yeah. And so that brings us to the
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  first question, Does intersectionality make activism
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  more fragmented? No, I don't believe it does.
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  It doesn't make it more fragmented, but it does reveal
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  the fragmentation that is already there.
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  Like we said, intersectionality is a lens through which we
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  should look at people's lived experience, and the fragment
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  between white women and black women in the feminist movement
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  was already there. But intersectionality shines a
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  light on that and helps us understand how those two things
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  should be considered separately. Obviously when you shine a light
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  on it, the the issue of feminism starts to look a bit more
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  complex. It starts to have different
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  colour. It starts to have like with
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  these different additional things that we need to consider.
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  So it can seem like it fragments for feminism, but I think it
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  gives feminism colour and it reveals the complexity.
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  That's already there. That's interesting.
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  What do you think? Because I actually agree with
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  you. Nice.
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  I think intersectionality sort of provides allyship.
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  It helps you understand why when people are experiencing
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  something and they're explaining it slightly different to you,
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  but you're supposed to be part of the same community, but
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  they're explaining something slightly different to you that
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  you can't process, it helps you, helps you understand that a bit
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  more. Agreed.
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  I think. I don't know if it's true, but
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  other people have agreed with you.
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  I'll. Let you know Bell works.
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  Is agreed with me on it, OK. But I think prejudice is the
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  single most harmful thing to society.
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  And the only way we can overcome that is to try and understand
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  other people's experience. And we do a disservice to that
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  experience by trying to group it unnecessarily and not
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  understanding the slight nuances in those experiences.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.
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  If we if we want to try and eradicate prejudice, which
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  obviously we can't do, but try and reduce it, we need
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  intersectionality to be able to understand these experiences to
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  reduce prejudice. Yeah, I, I 100% agree.
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  Like you said, if you really want to see someone, you want to
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  like, recognise someone's humanity, recognise their
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  struggle, you have to see the world through their eyes as much
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  as you possibly can. And intersectionality is a is,
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  it's like putting on glasses. It's like puts into focus how
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  other people experience the same systems because we all live on
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  the capitalism, for example, right?
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  Capitalism is a system that oppresses everyone to varying
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  degrees. Some people are more oppressed
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  than others. Some people oppress, but.
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  People do the oppressive. Yeah, exactly.
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  But but ultimately capitalism intersects with different people
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  in different ways. It harms indigenous people in
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  unique ways. It harms ethnic minorities in in
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  certain ways. It harms women in certain ways.
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  It harms people who don't fit the normal, like binary gender
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  paradigm in in unique ways. And I think, like you say, if we
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  wanted to get rid of prejudice, we have to see the world through
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  other people's eyes, through intersectionality.
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  Exactly. And so no, it doesn't make it
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  more fragmented so. Let's get into some of the
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  modern critique of intersectionality.
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  Obviously, like you said, the Crenshaw came out of
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  intersectionality about 30 years ago or so.
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  Yes, it's become very prevalent in the last 15 years or so.
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  I think it's over 30 years ago, actually.
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  Yeah, yeah. And I think I think it a lot of
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  it's like online prevalence right now.
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  It's a lot of right right wing people come in at
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  intersectionality. Critical race theory and
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  intersectionality are too buzzwords for the right.
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  And what I see in the right's reaction to intersectionality is
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  they understand that people experience the world
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  differently. They get it like you don't need
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  to be a genius to understand that like a child sees the world
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  differently to an adult, a woman sees it differently to A to a
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  man. And they are oppressed in
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  different ways. That's fine.
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  But what I think they see intersectionality as is a
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  complete flip of power structures because that if you
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  think about the Venn diagram, right, the people who are the
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  most oppressed are the people who hit the most circles.
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  They're right in the middle of the Venn diagram.
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  And the people who are on the outside are what, straight white
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  men, let's just call it what it is.
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  They're not oppressed by, you know, gender dynamics, sexuality
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  or race, right? Those are the sort of the big,
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  the big ones. And I think straight white men
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  look at intersectionality and they're like, fuck, they're
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  about to flip the whole table on its head.
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  And the people at the middle of the Venn diagram are now going
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  to have the most social capital, and I'm going to have the least.
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  And I think that's a lot of the rights reaction to
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  intersectionality in critical race theory.
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  I don't know if you've come across that online, have you?
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  I I actually haven't, but it feels weird to me because I just
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  can't imagine someone this is probably this is
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  intersectionality for white men. I can't see through the lens
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  that there would be a problem in flipping that or like adding
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  more equity. Four people, do you know what I
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  mean? I can't see the problem with it
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  right? Right.
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  And, and I agree with you. I agree with you.
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  I think in their recognition or in their like demonization of
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  intersectionality, the Loki's snitching on themselves, the
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  Loki's saying, I know I've had it good this whole time.
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  I know these people have been oppressed this whole time.
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  I don't want the same plight that they had.
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  But do you think that's a conscious thought?
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  I think it's a subconscious thought and it's a fear that
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  like right wing reactionaries online tap into.
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  Because like I would understand that their take on it would be
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  more so like, no, that's not true.
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  That doesn't really happen. That's that's what I would see
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  their take to be, if you understand what I mean, rather
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  than like, oh, I don't want more equity for these people, for
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  these groups of people. I can't imagine anyone would say
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  that. It's more like no because,
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  because if. If we go, but I think I think
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  they look at it like a 0 sum game.
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  If they get more equity, I have to give it up, and on some level
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  that's true. I don't, I don't think people
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  are naturally like, I want to cause harm.
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  Do you know what I mean? That's what that's basically
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  what I'm saying. If we, if we look at that story
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  that I explained to you, they broke it all the way down and
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  the judge still didn't give them the money, they still lost that
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  case. What?
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  So he, he was like, it's opening Pandora's box, right?
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  Right. So to, to what you're saying is
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  that's how they see it. That's that's kind of how I
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  think they see it in the essence of like, oh, that's not really a
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  problem. No, but opening Pandora's box is
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  like, the whole thing's going to be flipped.
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  Like it's going to go mad. If I would give you an inch,
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  you're going to take a mile. Do you know what I mean?
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  Because and the mile is what you should have, but if we give you
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  small hair, you're going to try to take the whole thing and
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  you're going to take from our equity.
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  That's how I think. And it might not be conscious.
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  Yeah, I don't. Know if that's a conscious?
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  I don't know if it is evil black.
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  And I don't think they're evil. Like when When?
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  You get on to the second, the second, the second segment.
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  I I will try and explain how I think maybe we should have a
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  white person in the room, how I think white people get there.
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  I don't think they start with evil intent but the place they
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  get to I think is actually evil and I will try and rationalise
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  how I think they get there. OK, the the second question is
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  culture something that should be guarded or shared?
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  I think culture should be shared.
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  I think culture should be shared.
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  Do you agree? Yeah, I do.
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  Yeah. Are you surprised?
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  A little bit. Yeah, a little bit, yeah.
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  I've just always seen the way you look at structures as
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  oppressive, right? Like we obviously live under
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  capitalism. So if capitalism is oppressing
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  people and you share it, it's going to be appropriate.
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  Essentially. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, I.
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  I think I think ultimately we'll get to where I think like
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  guarding is OK, but I think ultimately culture is a way for
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  us to connect with each other. Like like we said in the first
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  segment, culture is a recognition of human activity.
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  And it's like a living, breathing thing that we shape
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  everyday as we live and is obviously connected to history,
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  what is constantly evolving. And I think to try and guard
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  some semblance of culture is kind of #1 to misunderstand
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  culture as like a static thing that you can actually own and
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  guard, because it's not. And #2 when you try to guard
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  culture, you, you end up like putting up walls around people.
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  And you, you start to divide people and you start to end up
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  in a place where you think your thing is better than someone
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  else's. And you start to demonise other
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  people from other cultures. And I think that's actually how
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  prejudice, a lot of prejudice in our current world works.
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  It's like you from, from a place of fear.
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  You want to elevate your own culture and demonise someone
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  else's and you start to dehumanise someone else.
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  You can you can now paint them as the enemy.
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  I sort of. Looked at it slightly
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  differently. I sort of looked at it through
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  the through the lens that this show is a show that will always
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  support the oppressor of the oppressor.
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  Just that and the idea that culture should be shared because
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  it creates knowledge and as a result of creating the
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  knowledge, you then can overthrow oppression, right?
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  The way people have oppressed people is to.
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  Rob you of your collection. Rob you of knowledge, basically
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  rob you of understanding. The less you know, the more we
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  can coerce you. So I think you need to share
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  knowledge in order 1 to overcome oppression, but to grow as
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  people. And that's why I I generally
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  lean on the side of sharing knowledge then guarding it.
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  Why would you argue sometimes to guard it?
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  I think you can have bad actors who come maliciously to destroy
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  a culture. So if we take the British in
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  Africa, for example, part of and you, you literally just touched
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  on it. Now, part of how they managed to
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  divide Africa against themselves.
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  Like we're talking like country by country, leader by leader,
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  tribe by tribe was to come and essentially decimate your
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  culture in that they tell you stories about who you are that
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  take the truth and twist it or take the truth and completely
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  destroy it. So you know what a philosophy
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  show 1 might ask where, where's the African philosophy?
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  Like we talk about European philosophy in mainstream media
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  bare because we've got written documentation of that.
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  But you know, the West destroyed African philosophy.
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  They destroyed the documents, they destroyed the history of
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  African knowledge. And in those scenarios, when you
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  have a malicious actor, I think it's OK to guard your culture
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  and guard the sources of knowledge and power in your
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  culture when faced with a threat like that.
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  Yeah, I'm not. I'm not sure I'm with that.
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  Yeah, because I guess when the British like landed on the West
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  African shores, I I do. Think though, that that sort of
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  mentality is of yesteryear. I don't know if that is the same
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  today. Fair given.
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  Access to information, yeah, yeah.
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  Yeah, Fair. Fair.
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  Because it's not that easy to destroy information.
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  Exactly. You can't just go to a book and
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  burn it. Exactly.
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  You know what I mean? It's on the Internet.
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  I hear it. I hear it.
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  That's one the sort of example that came to mind.
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  But ultimately, I agree with you, I think.
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  I think knowledge and culture is something to be shared and
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  celebrated. Yeah.
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  It's a way to learn and it's a way to enrich the like human
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  experience. There is a hater in me I'm sorry
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  to admit this but there is a hater in me that like when I see
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  a white girl with box braids the hater in me bubbles up and I
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  don't know whether that's right or wrong but I'm like we should
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  guard that. Do you do you know what the
• 18:04
  issue is? It's not.
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  I know, it's silly. It's dumb.
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  It's not so. Much that is the issue of them
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  wearing box braids or like a white brother with dreadlocks or
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  something like the issue is how it's portrayed.
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  So that single person wearing dreadlocks or that single white
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  girl wearing box braids isn't the problem.
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  But the problem comes when the media now put that white girl
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  with box braids at the front of the class and tell the class
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  that. This is beautiful.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you've demonised.
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  It on other people on black people previous to this and that
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  is the problem. Not so much them wearing box
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  braids or them wearing dreads. That's absolutely fine.
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  Like that's cool. The problem is how the story is
• 18:52
  then told all shorts exactly. Yeah, yeah, absolutely right.
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  And that's maybe that we've arrived actually, where that's
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  where I feel like culture should be guarded when threatened with
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  erasure. That I think that's actually
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  what I was trying to say earlier.
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  But yeah, part, part part of me is like, I shouldn't feel that
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  way. I shouldn't feel that way.
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  Maybe like, do I feel superior when I see a brother who's
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  trying to lock his hair and the thing's not locking.
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  He ain't got a coal pan in his hair, but my hair locks.
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  Do you? Does that make me feel superior?
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  Maybe the thing? About is that.
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  That's not right, I know. But I look at that and I'm like,
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  oh, I've got something that I've got something that he can't have
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  and it makes me feel good. Well.
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  Culture. This is for another show, but I
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  feel like culture is somewhat inherently exclusionary, right?
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  Like it, it was. Culture is generally created by
• 19:47
  the group and elements of the group, right?
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  So when we talk about hair, there's a reason why that
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  hairstyle was created. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  And now, because of the way the world has become globalised and
• 20:00
  information is accessible to everybody, people associate that
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  hairstyle with something else they like.
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  They see those people with that hairstyle make music that they
• 20:09
  enjoy and then want to emulate it.
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  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But culture is for the for the
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  people. Do you get what I mean as a
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  result? So you're going to feel.
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  Like this is mine. This is my.
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  Thing, you know what I mean? And, and I think that's fine as
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  well. And and if you acknowledge that
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  that's sort of like your your natural response to that, but
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  still let you be free, like I don't think there's a bit of.
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  Prejudice there though, no, for for me, I'm like putting myself
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  above someone else. OK, to to think you're above
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  them. Yeah.
• 20:43
  Yeah, that is wrong. Yeah.
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  No, I can't. I don't.
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  No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, what you were saying is.
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  Different like no, no, I don't, I don't go.
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  Like that far, but like for that thing like, oh, I've got a thing
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  he wants, like my hair is better than his hair.
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  Not that I'm a better person. I I don't even know if that's.
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  Prejudice. That's more more a bit of self
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  love. Yeah, I'll take that.
• 21:10
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe a bit. More of self love.
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  You know what I'll take that, I'll take that.
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  We got this thing that like, you can't have.
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  He's taken so much from Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:20
  You have to balance the I hear that, I hear that, I hear that.
• 21:23
  So if we like change speed a bit towards activism, for example,
• 21:27
  men can benefit from feminism in a malicious way if they want to.
• 21:31
  You can portray the trappings of feminism, you know, look a
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  certain way, dress a certain way, listen to certain music and
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  that will endear you to women. It makes you.
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  More desirable? Exactly.
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  But you can in all the other things you do in your life, you
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  can reinforce misogyny. Yeah.
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  And I think you do run the risk of, like, for example, we're
• 21:53
  talking about feminism here, a movement becoming hijacked.
• 21:57
  Yeah, but. I, I do think we have to
• 21:58
  approach the world with like empathy and curiosity and, and
• 22:02
  hope, like, do you know what I mean?
• 22:05
  And if you approach with those sort of those sort of ideals,
• 22:10
  you kind of have to push people towards doing the right thing.
• 22:13
  Do you know what I mean? Like.
• 22:14
  It's funny because you're usually the sceptic.
• 22:17
  No, I don't think I am a sceptic only because you say ridiculous
• 22:21
  things. No, no, you.
• 22:26
  This is the brother that says. Babies are born.
• 22:28
  Selfish. That's your take bro.
• 22:31
  And the take is qualified though, that you learn to become
• 22:36
  not selfish with time, is that not?
• 22:38
  Sceptic take no I. Don't think so.
• 22:41
  I just think that is the way the world works.
• 22:43
  I just mean, but you. Can't say that.
• 22:44
  You can't just say my take's the truth.
• 22:46
  That's basically what you just said.
• 22:48
  Fuck off. OK, Let me tell you.
• 22:53
  Let me tell you a story, a quick story.
• 22:56
  You know that March I went on? Yeah, I went on a March in
• 22:59
  Peckham against Berkeley Homes. So Berkeley Homes are proposing
• 23:04
  to the council to knock down Elsham Centre, which is on Rye
• 23:07
  Lane. I know that very well and.
• 23:10
  Replace Elsham Centre with houses with a massive block of
• 23:15
  luxury flats. Right on the mains on the.
• 23:18
  Mains crazy. It's going to displace a lot of
• 23:21
  local businesses, displace a lot of people who serve the local
• 23:26
  community and potentially exclude local people who can't
• 23:31
  afford luxury apartments. They they they had to like have
• 23:35
  a certain amount of affordable homes and I think that
• 23:38
  percentage is like down to like 15% like so it's a really low
• 23:41
  percentage at this point. So I went on that March to
• 23:46
  protest against Berkeley homes, Right.
• 23:49
  So I'll pull up to the March. I'm expecting to see our people
• 23:52
  there. I'm expecting to see, like,
• 23:54
  South London. Yeah, it's Peckham.
• 23:57
  It's Campbell. Like, this is like where we grew
• 23:59
  up. This is home.
• 24:00
  Yes, But I I ain't seen. I ain't seen that there.
• 24:03
  And I obviously talked to a few people.
• 24:05
  I mingle. It turns out most of these
• 24:09
  brothers are identifiers on the March.
• 24:14
  I'm going to a March about gentrification and I'm marching
• 24:17
  with gentrified. Make it make sense.
• 24:22
  It's peak. I'm conflicted.
• 24:24
  Let's say 7-8 hundred people pulled up.
• 24:29
  I'm looking at like there's 100 S like local born and bred S
• 24:36
  Londoners. And I'm thinking to myself, is
• 24:39
  it a net positive that we've got people who are down for the
• 24:42
  cause? Like they're not, they're not
• 24:44
  the oppressor, right? They might be part of a bigger
• 24:47
  systemic problem, but they haven't done anything wrong.
• 24:51
  It's just not the vibe I wanted when I pulled up.
• 24:55
  Am I just being super critical because they're helping.
• 24:59
  They've made what would be a small March a lot, a lot bigger.
• 25:04
  And they've, they've lended their voices, their time, their
• 25:06
  energy, their effort. But again, the hater in me
• 25:09
  bubbled up. I'm like why are them man here?
• 25:13
  Do you know what? I'm trying to say, and I'm
• 25:14
  trying to channel Fred Hampton, I'm trying to say rainbow
• 25:18
  coalition, rainbow coalition, everyone come together help You
• 25:23
  know, this particular rainbow is quite white, but I just.
• 25:28
  Think that's why it's complex, isn't it?
• 25:29
  Like it's, I think, I think what they're doing is right.
• 25:35
  They're like victims of they will.
• 25:39
  Also suffer yeah because they don't have affordable housing
• 25:42
  either they're. Victims of unregulated
• 25:46
  capitalism, essentially in the UK, which makes London the only
• 25:51
  place where you can earn really good money, essentially, which
• 25:56
  means they have to migrate to London.
• 25:58
  And as a result of migrating to London, they don't have to live
• 26:01
  in areas that aren't that great. Yeah, yeah.
• 26:05
  So it's like a lot. Larger problem.
• 26:06
  It's a lot like. Harming like local residents
• 26:10
  necessarily, but just part of a bigger web of like a problematic
• 26:15
  movement precisely. And then what they can try and
• 26:18
  affect, they're trying to affect it.
• 26:20
  Do you know what I mean? And it has to be a net positive,
• 26:25
  I think, yes. Yes, and I got there.
• 26:28
  It was just very visually jarring when I pulled up and I
• 26:32
  know. So there are so many people in
• 26:35
  Peckham in in like in South London that would should be
• 26:39
  pulling up. Yeah.
• 26:39
  Do you know what I'm like? So maybe that's more of the.
• 26:41
  Problem. It's not them.
• 26:42
  It's the fact that like maybe us that grew up there and stuff
• 26:46
  like we should be. Pulling up.
• 26:47
  We should be there. Yeah, right, right, right,
• 26:49
  right. And it should be two 2000 people
• 26:51
  instead. Yeah.
• 26:53
  And that's where the call for action should be like.
• 26:54
  Not against them, man. Against us, man.
• 26:58
  Really. Yeah, I do think it creates A
• 27:01
  vibe though. It creates an energy on the
• 27:04
  March and it's like, my people ain't going to pull up to that
• 27:07
  because that's the vibe. And I know it's a bit like
• 27:11
  nitpicky to be like, oh, not only do I want a March that's
• 27:15
  going to achieve the goal, I also want it to be like my kind
• 27:18
  of vibe. I get that that's nitpicky, but
• 27:20
  in order to attract the people that are going to be affected by
• 27:24
  it there, we do need to like manage the energy of the March.
• 27:29
  No, a little bit, yeah. Yeah, in a sense, yeah.
• 27:33
  Because I. Can't be like, oh, pull up and
• 27:35
  like everyone knows that when they pull up it's just going to
• 27:38
  look like that. Well, like if enough people
• 27:40
  pulled up, it would change the vibe of it.
• 27:42
  Yeah. You're.
• 27:42
  Right. You're right.
• 27:43
  You're right. All.
• 27:45
  Right. Maybe the hater in me just needs
• 27:47
  to. Settle down, take it easy.
• 27:50
  Settle down, take a touch. Take a touch.
• 27:54
  Game's gone left. All right, on to the final
• 28:02
  segment. This is actually I really like
• 28:03
  this dilemma. We obviously write a lot of
• 28:05
  dilemmas that don't read like sometimes I read it and I'm
• 28:08
  like, I know what I'm going to say.
• 28:10
  This one I wasn't sure and I'm actually really not sure what
• 28:13
  TES going to say. Well, I think I know what he's
• 28:14
  going to say. Cool.
• 28:15
  Let me get cracking on. This is segment 3.
• 28:17
  You're directing a film about a character with a physical
• 28:20
  disability. A famous non disabled actor
• 28:23
  guarantees funding and a wide audience, but casting them could
• 28:27
  spark backlash for inauthenticity.
• 28:31
  A lesser known disabled actor brings a lived experience and
• 28:36
  authenticity, but then lack of star power makes financing and
• 28:39
  distributing uncertain. Who do you choose?
• 28:43
  I'm going. To pick the disabled actor,
• 28:46
  however, I told. You what he was going to do,
• 28:49
  yes. It was me, but I don't know how
• 28:54
  I feel about my own take on this, what I'm about to say.
• 28:57
  I don't know how deep it is, who the headline is, if the stuff
• 29:04
  around it is correct. So for example, if you went with
• 29:08
  the non disabled actor who has massive reach, that person then
• 29:12
  does everything he, he or she can in the press run in all of
• 29:18
  the stuff around the film to highlight disabled voices and to
• 29:22
  prop up people who are disabled. And, you know, they apply.
• 29:27
  I'm, I'm not going to look at that and be like, oh, that's not
• 29:29
  right. Just because they didn't pick
• 29:31
  that guy that some some other person.
• 29:35
  Obviously the problem is there that there's a message that
• 29:38
  you're sending to disabled people that yeah, you're good
• 29:41
  enough, but you're not quite good enough to actually be the,
• 29:44
  the, the the lead, the lead actor.
• 29:46
  But I just think as long as that there isn't erasure and the the
• 29:50
  goal is to like highlight the plight of the table people, I'm
• 29:53
  happy boy. What do you answer?
• 29:56
  Do you who do you pick? I'm.
• 29:57
  I'm going to pick the well known actor.
• 30:00
  Yeah, OK. Because basically my big thing
• 30:04
  was you're doing this thing about this issue, you've made
• 30:08
  this film. What's the point of the film if
• 30:11
  no one sees it? How valuable is this message
• 30:15
  you're spreading if no one watches the film?
• 30:19
  The disabled people will watch it.
• 30:21
  Yeah. But I of course you're trying to
• 30:23
  spread the message like far and wide like that's, that's the
• 30:26
  whole point of it, right? Yeah, yeah, to as many people as
• 30:29
  possible. And I'm assuming based on the
• 30:31
  dilemma, we're going to get more people 100%.
• 30:34
  Star after right? And I think that's really
• 30:37
  important. Like I always have this thing
• 30:39
  like playing sport. It's like what's the point of
• 30:43
  being strong if you can't use it like?
• 30:45
  What's the? Point of being the best athlete
• 30:48
  if you're never available, like how good is it?
• 30:51
  Like, oh, it's cool to talk about it, but like you can never
• 30:53
  really use it. And that's the same way I sort
• 30:57
  of approach this. It's like I've got this message
• 30:59
  that I think is really important.
• 31:01
  I've got this thing that I want to create change with.
• 31:06
  How many people I get it to is probably the most important
• 31:09
  thing. We can deal with the rest later.
• 31:13
  No publicity is bad. If people are even talking about
• 31:16
  it, complaining about this. People then might even go and
• 31:18
  watch the movie and understand that there's an more important
• 31:21
  goal here. Yeah.
• 31:22
  Yeah, issue at stake, yeah. Exactly.
• 31:25
  So for that reason I probably have to go with the the star
• 31:29
  actor. But if you were a viewer, would
• 31:32
  you boycott it? So paint the picture for me.
• 31:36
  They what have they done around the?
• 31:38
  Have they like mitigated against the erasure?
• 31:43
  In your estimation, no, not really, although like they've
• 31:48
  touched on it obviously and spoken.
• 31:49
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like not enough.
• 31:51
  No, you don't feel that it's a lot, OK.
• 31:54
  If I don't feel like it's enough, I might do.
• 31:58
  I might do, but it is that age-old question.
• 32:01
  Like is my boycotting of the film even?
• 32:06
  Valuable like, or is it something to make yourself feel
• 32:11
  better? Do you know what I mean?
• 32:12
  Or is it actually fixing the problem or helping to fix the
• 32:16
  problem? Yeah.
• 32:17
  I I might actually just take a back seat on this one.
• 32:19
  I might actually look at what the disabled community thinks
• 32:21
  because I might think it's not enough.
• 32:23
  But if the disabled community speak up, tell you it's.
• 32:26
  Fine. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 32:27
  I'm actually just might take my cue from them.
• 32:29
  It's a bit of a cop out, but like, I think we need to listen
• 32:31
  to them. Yeah.
• 32:32
  Do you know what I mean? And see how they responded.
• 32:34
  Yeah. Eddie Redmayne played the
• 32:35
  transgender character, and he ended up saying that he
• 32:38
  regretted doing that because because of the erasure of trans
• 32:43
  people. And obviously it's a case by
• 32:46
  case basis. Like if had they done more
• 32:50
  around that film and highlighted trans voices, like outside of
• 32:53
  the film and maybe brought some trans people into the writing
• 32:57
  room and like, you know what I mean, had them as part of the
• 33:00
  creation of the film, he might have felt a different way.
• 33:03
  But I thought it's an interesting example.
• 33:06
  Yeah, like they got it wrong, Yeah.
• 33:08
  It's like when Hollywood used to make, like, movies about Japan
• 33:12
  and Chinese things like all those.
• 33:13
  Do you know what I mean? Like, they just get the process
• 33:16
  wrong, you know, They look outward in instead of inward
• 33:20
  out, if you know what I mean. And if they look inward out and
• 33:22
  get the process right, I guess it sounds like you'd be fine
• 33:25
  with it. Yeah.
• 33:26
  Yeah, I'll be OK with it. I'll be OK.
• 33:28
  What do you think? Would you?
• 33:29
  If you thought like there was nothing about disabled people?
• 33:34
  You're the consumer, but you're not the producer, you're the
• 33:36
  consumer. Would you boycott?
• 33:37
  No. What would you boycott?
• 33:40
  Let's actually let's. Actually.
• 33:42
  Make it a bigger question. Hold up.
• 33:46
  Hold up, hold up. Hold up.
• 33:47
  You, you you sold your Tesla. Yeah.
• 33:49
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's something.
• 33:52
  That's what I would boycott. Yeah, that's too far.
• 33:55
  That's too. Far for me way too.
• 33:56
  Far. Obviously I boycotted that.
• 33:59
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, you. Did it?
• 34:00
  Yeah, Yeah. Just because I think that.
• 34:03
  You didn't waste no time need to.
• 34:07
  I said that has to go. I just felt, you know what the
• 34:10
  clear thing with the Tesla was you're outwardly endorsing
• 34:13
  something or it seems to be that you're outwardly endorsing
• 34:16
  something and I think that's hugely harmful.
• 34:20
  Whilst when you watch a movie, like even though driving the
• 34:24
  Tesla, I wasn't endorsing it. Do you know what I mean?
• 34:25
  You're, you're still not endorsing it, but like when you
• 34:28
  watch the movie, nor are you like outwardly endorsing it and
• 34:33
  you know, personally you're not endorsing it.
• 34:34
  Do you know what I mean? Like I can still just watch this
• 34:37
  for entertainment whilst like with the driving, it's like I'm
• 34:39
  outwardly doing it internally. Obviously I'm not, but like out.
• 34:43
  And if I think if you hit one of those, I think then you have to,
• 34:50
  to, to change things. I hear what?
• 34:52
  You're saying, like, you could just watch a film and it's not
• 34:54
  that deep. Yeah, if you like, if someone
• 34:58
  watched the film and then they like posted about it and were
• 35:00
  like, oh, I love this film, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook or
• 35:03
  whatever, does that change the act of watching it because
• 35:07
  they've outwardly endorsed it as well?
• 35:09
  Without without sufficiently critiquing it.
• 35:11
  Right, right, right. OK, that's interesting.
• 35:14
  So the the the way you present is like somewhat changes the
• 35:20
  ethics of the problem I think. So, OK, fair.
• 35:23
  Because I think you're, whether intended or not, you are
• 35:27
  influencing people, other people, Yeah.
• 35:29
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 35:31
  And I think that moment that you are influencing other people,
• 35:34
  you really have to take stock. Fair.
• 35:37
  Fair does the does the act of buying the film like giving
• 35:40
  money to a 'cause that you are? It's a bit questionable.
• 35:43
  Does that play any any role? I know it's might be like 10
• 35:46
  bar, but like, does that play any factor?
• 35:50
  Yeah. It would probably.
• 35:51
  I probably wouldn't if it's free like.
• 35:53
  It'd be if it's. Free, I'd probably watch it like
• 35:55
  do you know what I mean like, but if you actually add add,
• 35:58
  that's probably because I was I was thinking when I said that I
• 36:00
  was like, what's it what would internally be endorsing it
• 36:03
  right, like what would that look like paying your?
• 36:05
  Money, that is, yeah. Paying your money or something?
• 36:09
  Thank you all for joining us and I hope you loved it as much as
• 36:13
  we did. See you soon.
• 36:14
  See you. Next week, take care.
• 36:27
  ABCDEFG it's an. Intersectionality, what is it?
• 36:36
  Good question. We're getting a little bit
• 36:44
  cheaper for sure. Lovely.