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The Business Mistakes That Could Cost You Thousands · Captivate the Mic: Master Public Speaking & Video, Build Confidence and Boost Visibility

• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everybody, welcome to Captivate the Mic with Elaine Williams.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: We have a very special guest today.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Not only is she gorgeous and brilliant, I met her through the fabulous Tony Caruso.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: This woman is an attorney who specializes working with entrepreneurs with trademarks and all kinds of things that we never even think about.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: So please help me welcome Melissa Gray.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Melissa, thank you for being here.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, thank you for having me.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: You're one of just a few female attorneys I've had on.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: I just love female attorneys.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: You guys are so fun and smart and you you do it all.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: You have three kids and a husband and a practice.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: A lot happening.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So take us back.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to know what drew you to law.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: How did you, what was your did you grow up watching Law and Order?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's so funny.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I did, but I think what drew me to law, I'm the youngest of five girls.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a lot of wow um arguing and estrogen.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so as the youngest, I felt like I was was well suited and naturally advocate for myself in a big family.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: And but I did, I I did gravitate towards the lawyer shows.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: I always was fascinated by the gray area of things when you're considering an issue.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, this person sees it this way, this person sees it this way.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned loving female lawyers.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think women in particular bring something so unique to the law because our problem-solving abilities are just different.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because our skill sets are different and our experiences are different.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And they make some of the best lawyers because of their ability to be empathetic but still assertive, to manage lots of things at the same time.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: So all the skills of childhood, motherhood, of of business ownership just make it uh a well-rounded skill set that I bring to my clients because it's not just a one size fits all in terms of giving advice.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: You have to meet people where they are, where their budgets are, where their where their situation is emotionally.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's a lot of nuance to each of the approaches that we take.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I think women are are good advocates in that sense.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're reminding me.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I was an accountability buddy with this woman who was so beautiful and brilliant.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: She is from Nigeria originally, and she had an MBA, a law degree, and she worked for a big, big, big company.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: And she would tell me these things how sometimes guys would get into this posturing thing dynamic.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: And one time there was a meeting, and one guy was really like ready to blow things up, and she was like, Let me just can you just put this on pause?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Let me go try to talk to the guy.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And she, because of just hearing things differently and being able to maneuver, she stopped what could have been a horrendous, very costly fight in this huge, huge company.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I bet this happens every day.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was it was exciting to be like behind the scenes and hear all the things she was dealing with.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: So to be outcome driven as opposed to ego driven is sometimes hard for our male colleagues, but not all of them.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: I work with some very, very client-focused men as well.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I I do think we're well suited for for mediation and dispute resolution.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: It can it can help.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I would you rather be right or happy?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and mediation in particular, if both parties walk away upset, it probably was a good mediation.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, is that how you okay?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody it's like it's if nobody really got everything they wanted, it probably was a good result as far as a mediation goes.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: And did you study mediation in in law school?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: So there are some alternative dispute resolution like classes where you should know that these options exist, right?
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody, everybody knows litigation, where it's like courtrooms, depositions, trial, but there's all these steps in between where you can really be creative about the solutions that you come up with for clients.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And the reality is 90, I think it's 98% of cases settle.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: So how they settle is is all these alternatives, right?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: They all get to the courtroom, and and that's that's good, right?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: You court court's expensive.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Court is expensive not just in money, but in time and energy, in resources of the people that are working at the court, but also your client.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can keep them out of there, that's that's where you want to stay.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: That is the gold.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: I've a landlord and I have been to court several times.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And even though I've won, I never feel like I win because it takes so much time and energy and stress.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I love that.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: So yes.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and in terms of the the ability to stay out, a lot of the work that we do is preventative, right?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: How do we help our clients position themselves, whether it's through contracts, through partnerships, all the things, to stay out of course, yes.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's the goal, right?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: That is the goal.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Out of the court.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I would love to know more about your journey, Melissa.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you you grew up like, okay, I'm advocating.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: I got four older, bigger sisters than me.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: What a great training, right?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: So then you end up going.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Where'd you go to law school?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: I went to law school in Jacksonville, Florida.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I was at Florida State, Seminole and Tallahassee.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: So Jacksonville's just like down the way.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: I met my husband there.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so I'm licensed in Florida and in in Texas.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: He's from the Colyville area, and uh, we were in the same section, this whole meet cute scenario.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: But uh then we planted our roots in in the FW and have been here ever since.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't see us leaving anytime soon.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: So it's cool.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Dallas has really evolved and changed since I grew up here in the 80s.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like it's just grown so much, but it's gotten artier and cooler, in my opinion.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: At least East Dallas.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there, and it's just in my line of work, it's such a hub for activity on the business front.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: We've got so many transients from California on the tech side.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: We are really catching up.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: The the government has incentivized business businesses to come.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's making for a lot of activity and really cool entrepreneur experiences.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's what we do.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: I decided early in my career, I I landed an opportunity at a firm that specialized in intellectual property, and so that's how I got my training on the trademark copyright front.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then I went in-house at a company, so they manufactured and distributed actual products to customers all over the country and abroad.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that was such good training for just being able to be a holistic kind of general counsel to my clients.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: So when I had my youngest son, I decided I I want to do this for myself.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm gonna, if I'm gonna build a book of business, if I'm gonna put in all this energy into making connections, contacts, then I want to have that be mine and own it and and leverage it the way that I want.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that has been the last, it'll be a little over three years now that I started the lost spot, which has been my my journey into entrepreneurship.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I finally have both pictures, but we start scale, sell businesses with the focus on intellectual property as well.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, really, anybody that wants to form a business and get that advice on the preventative steps to avoid the courtroom, right?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: How to do it properly, how to get your contracts in place, how to navigate those um negotiations with contractors, with vendors, with employees.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's all part of what we do to just make that transition into entrepreneurship a little less intimidating because it it can be a lot for somebody who's never open started anything new to be like, okay, what is that?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: What do I even do?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: How do I start?
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: How do I start?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is so overwhelming.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, Melissa.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of steps, and so support is a lot of what we do.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Education is a lot of what we do.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: So in my in my initial launch of the firm, educational videos, workshops, those sorts of things, you can those are all still available and were a big part of how I started the practice.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's I had always for years and years, I had worked part-time as a trainer at a New York City high-volume high-end restaurant.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I could I trained all the managers, I trained everybody, I could sell$10,000 bottles of wine, no problem.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then and I was always like coaching and speaking part-time.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I finally decided, okay, I'm going full in, I was like a dog chasing my tail.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know I didn't know how to work for longer periods of time.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: I there was and I didn't know LLC and what and this.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: There were so many things I thought I already knew how to do that I did not know how to do.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then being able to sell my services was like that has been quite a learning curve, you know.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and there's a mindset component of shifting from corporate environment to being your own advocate and boss and running things and managing people.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen it all.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: But the the the mistakes that they make, the big ones at least, they usually only make once and then they call me.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and and I I love entrepreneurs, and sometimes we're so frustrating, right?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: When you I've had people say, Oh, I really want to work with you, Elaine.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: You could help me with this, this, and this, but I just hired this other person because my friend is doing it, and I don't think they're the right person for me, but it's too late.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: I've had people tell me that many times.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: I've had people say, Well, I already spent all this money with so and so.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Well, did you get the results you wanted?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I'm like, What are you doing?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: But you can't say that.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, you can.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and and part of that training is just stuff you gotta learn as you go.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's really no other there's no other way to figure out the the end game that you want other than getting in the weeds on some of that stuff.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then you you smarten up and you outsource to professionals that can do it better, faster, and cheaper.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's a lot of the experience that you get.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: But I agree.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: So funny.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: I w I always joke around, like, I put the cart before the horse, but the horse wasn't even born yet.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of my jokes.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and and and when people get to me, uh it's like they're trying to be penny wise, the pound foolish, that old adage, right?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you wanted to save$150 or whatever it is, but but it ended up costing you$5,000 because you didn't invest the time into the thing that would have prevented the dispute or prevented getting that letter for cease and desist or whatever it is.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many, so many stories like that that I have, and there's some heartbreaking ones, but they only make that mistake once, and then then they'll invest the time.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and can you can you tell us one of those with obviously change the names, but of course.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, and and gosh, it it's it's the the age-old tale, right?
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: You you invest in I've had so many people come to me that they're so passionate about their new endeavor, they've bought a domain, they've uh got the social media, they've invested all this energy into creating a logo or a website, right?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: And they've not done the diligence on the front end to understand the landscape of their competitors or people that have maybe already used the name that they've chosen for their product or their service.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: So on the trademark side in particular, the the clearance search is one of the things that entrepreneurs skip and they don't understand the implications of of using a name that someone else has already established rights in.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: So they they just go full bore into creation mode and they don't take a step back to to vet the the name itself and whether they're gonna get in trouble by using it.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: So and the catch 22 is the more successful they are, the more likely that person is to find out that they wish the name and then give them the cease and cis letter after they've already had this traction.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of my education was is like do the clearance search before, Google, do do there's there's so many ways now where you can actually even find out more on a DIY quest than, but if you want to have that assurance, having a a professional do a clearance search for you to just make sure that the name you want to use is not taken or it's not gonna get you into trouble.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because it's one of those things where a professional is gonna look at it and show you not just the surface, but they're gonna say, okay, well, even though it doesn't seem like it's exact, these are all the problems that you could face that are closets that might be exposed.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just enough to to do the surface because the intricacies of overlapping goods and services and that those kinds of things that that are gonna make most people fall asleep if I if I talk about them are just are just the the things that we are trained to look for and then make sure that you're aware of and then give you some some practical workarounds, or you can at least have your eyes open when you when you go into something uh and invest that real money in the branding and marketing and and all of that to launch the product, right?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: You just it's it's such an easy thing to do, and the amount of people that skip that step is it's still staggering today.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: And in the in the age of it didn't used to be so detrimental, but everything is online and everyone is everywhere, and these platforms uh enable you to get such a wide reach that we didn't always get.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Before the the use of a trademark was was probably more isolated and local, right?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: To your your market, however, even if you were a a small business owner, right, and you were just in your town, that was fine, but everyone is really pushing beyond their their sphere.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: So to it just n increases the necessity of of having that broader search done because you're really gonna be able to reach anyone in the world, potentially.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and I I'll share my my personal stories.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: For years and years I spoke on college campuses and I would talk about tough subjects like how to party safely, how to think things through.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: You're talking to 18-year-olds, right?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to entertain them and then slide in the the education and and I worked really hard on making them fun and interactive and but also ticking all the boxes.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember going on I was on my phone and I was like, oh, that that's my those are my slides.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: They took everything and they just took my name off of it.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, but that was what I had created, and it and it I felt like a mixture of, well, they say the best flattery imitation is the best form of flattery, but I also felt so violated that they didn't even ask permission.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: So and then I thought, do I want to spend energy and time?
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I was so busy touring and doing other things.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: I just I let it go, but it happened with a couple of universities, and now that I know more, I would definitely so yeah, it's it's even if you don't think somebody would do that, they will.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: And they might not even think that that's wrong.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: That's well, and and the reality is if you have a product or a service, you have intellectual property.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like every single business owner, every entrepreneur's business has things that are considered assets that they could protect.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Their name, their deliverables to clients could be copyrighted material, your slides, those were your creations, right?
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Those were the the product of your brain.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: So those things are uh and and whether or not you would go through the enforcement effort, right?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: To contact the university and say, Don't take them on my slides, or you would just say, Okay, you need to do it different next time, however that might play out, right?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: You should know that that's proprietary to you.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then you you just approach your connections with customers and vendors differently because you understand that those things have inherent value to you.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And and that's the the training going into those scenarios with with your customers and and people that you bring into your your business sphere.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: How am I gonna do this collaboration but still protect myself and make sure that this is still gonna be what I want it to be and no one's gonna take it or change it or put it out in a way that is detrimental to me.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of that, a lot of that can be can be done through the contracts that you have or the disclaimers that you have, terms of service on your websites, those sorts of things.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: So on the for for coaches, for speakers, just pro tip is putting that that copyright notice on there and and making sure that in when you're hired that you are controlling how those are put out into the world.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yes, thank you.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: As I'm I'm actually speaking uh next week and I'm like, oh yeah, I want to make sure I do the you're you're giving me so many good ideas, Melissa.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to bring you to talk to my group because we talk a lot about owning your worth and your value.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes the stuff that's easiest for us, we think, well, everybody knows how to warm up or why.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, no, nobody knows how to do that, right?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's uh yeah, this is great.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is great for all entrepreneurs listening.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And there's more things like that that are just the mindset shifts of an entrepreneur, right?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: It happened to you, so now when you go to speak, you're gonna you're gonna put parameters around what they can do with your things.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And the problem is most people don't want to lose the time to the groundwork properly in terms of documentation or a contract or something like that.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: So where an attorney can help is just giving you the templates that you need.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: If that's your business model, you have your speaker agreement, right?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is my speaker agreement, these are the terms.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody, it doesn't have to be intimidating, and honestly, it elevates their perception of you sometimes because they know that you take yourself seriously enough to consider those things before you engage with clients.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: So as much as we hesitate to create friction in getting the sale or getting the gig, if you don't have those things, then it's it's a sign of immaturity on the on your journey.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: So great.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're dropping some gold, girl.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's so great.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I have all these things, but sometimes I forget because I'm just so busy.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: But so creating those SOPs to that please, these are the things I struggle with.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I know how important an engagement letter is with my clients, right?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: I ethically know because I don't want anybody thinking that I'm being hired to do things that that that I didn't agree to do, right?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: So so it's more standard in my practice, but I get it on on different different industries have different practices in terms of what's what's standard, but having nothing is is just running out naked into the street.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's so true.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: You got nothing.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it's great too because to to set expectations, right?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because some of my work is very intuitive and some people get comfortable on camera quickly, and other people it just takes more time.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And and so it's yeah, you're giving me a million great ideas about new things I need to create.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: So tell me, is there a mistake that you see over and over not doing the due diligence?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, I th so that would that's on the trademark side.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: The other one still, what are we, 2026?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's so easy to start an LLC, form a partnership with somebody, and the amount of people that don't document their agreement with their partners is still staggering, right?
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like somebody will be the money person, somebody will be the sweat person, and there's no understanding about how the business is gonna run in the event you have a dispute.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so you this is the same in even estate planning, right?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have a will.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yes, you do.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: The state of Texas just decides what it is because it's the default statutes under this under the state.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: So if you don't have a partnership agreement and you guys said things were gonna be split a certain way or whatever, if you don't have a partnership agreement, the default is 50-50.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the default is that you can't expel a partner, and and and so you have to buy that person out.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: And even if there's these really egregious things that you both agreed were um out of bounds in your understanding of what the partnership was, right?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't have it written down, the default is gonna be decided for you, or you have to prove in court what you guys had as far as an understanding goes, and we all know that's incredibly difficult, right?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're reconstructing something like that was in your mind, or you're piecing together.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Other emails and text messages.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's just so much worse than spending the time up front.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, have a business prenup, right?
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it is.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: It is a prenup.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Assume that stuff's gonna go wrong and that stuff's gonna hit the fan and get the prenup.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's safer for everybody.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: And and really, that's the you don't want to be coming to me or or a business attorney if you don't have those ducks in a row because it's just not gonna go the way that you want it to go.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it's gonna be so much more expensive than it would have been to just have the documentation done.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Melissa, I think that is such a brilliant point.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: I I took I've I've been a professional development person.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: I love to learn, and I took a course years ago, and our teacher was like, I'd rather you start a business by yourself and fail than do it with a partner because this is human nature.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: To point the finger at the other person.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and I remember that stayed with me clearly because it's been years and years and years.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then I personally have had several friendships where we just loved each other and cheered each other on, and then the minute we entered into uh the business agreement with money, it completely changed the dynamics.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't a lot of money, and so that those have been really great lessons for me.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's incredible how much money people will will invest without any protection.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: I have and how people could be best friends and then it gets destroyed.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: I have uh I had a a client who they were they were friends since they were like five years old.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: They started a business together and they actually um they actually tried to do things, things properly, right?
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: But then one started stealing money because his mom lost her job and there and there was all these there was th there was things, right?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just you just don't know what can can happen.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then the the bigger the business gets, the more exposure there is, you're getting older, you have a family.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just you, you they're investors in your company, whether or not they're on your company.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: My my family is is who is they're my investors.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: I s I sacrifice my time with them to do this, to grow this.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: So to uh be responsible and having that that documented and just tightened up.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the if you're going by yourself, that one of my favorite stories from law school is I had a professor who talked about I'm starting a lemonade stand.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: And he, if you have a lemonade stand, you have a business, right?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so he said, My kids are never allowed to have a lemonade stand because if somebody, you know, somebody gets sick off that lemonade, they're coming, they're coming to me.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: And which is he was trying to explain the importance of having an entity, right?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Having an LLC, having a corporation.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you just are a sole proprietor providing services and someone gets hurt or or has an issue, then they're coming after your personal assets from your lemonade stand.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: So don't start a lemonade stand, go form a business and then have that protection of a separate entity that you're operating out of so that they're not coming after your personal assets, which is the whole point.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: So there's still a lot of sole proprietors out there, even your little Etsy shop or or whatever you're doing, right?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're still you're still providing providing a service, providing goods, and that could result in exposure to you.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Now, the risk level is different, right?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: But certainly there's some business owners where they either haven't taken the leap into getting a proper entity, or if they're in partnership with someone, they haven't documented the partnership, which is just the age-old tale.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because they don't want to make fri they don't want to make waves, they don't want to create friction.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess what I guess what I've learned is anybody who's every entrepreneur I know has been through some stuff, right?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: If you've been around for longer than a couple of years, and you've seen partnerships blow up and things happen that you could not have anticipated, right?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so it is a sign of maturity to be like, hey, I still love you and I can't wait to work with you, and let's have this thing in place to protect both of us.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: To me, a mature person would be like, right, absolutely.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: And anybody gets upset, well, that shows you who they really are.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's why people don't want to maybe see that.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I think there's a lot of put my head in the sand and hope for the best, right?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I please, uh and I I am not perfect by any means.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: I have had situations where I'm I'm like, eh, I'm just gonna, we're gonna just go go with what we're doing.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: And and even I never read terms and conditions and things for myself.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Right, who do not right.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: We all just scroll through Apple and I know.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm never gonna win that anyway.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna they're gonna say that I knew because because I understand the words, so I'm just or the waivers for my kids to go to Urban Air or something.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah, I get it.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: I get what you're trying to do.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's funny.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny, and I it makes me think of when I got into real estate, I was so naive and I had partners, but I didn't have any formal thing written up and and everything went sideways.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: So many painful lessons, but I'm like, hey, it's good content now.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so I think I think we've I think people get if they're listening, they're like, okay, okay, okay.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I I could talk to you all day.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I love your stories, Melissa, and I'm I'm in awe of how poised and together and professional you are, and you have three young children.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I appreciate that.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: I have uh a 10, 8, and 4 year old, two daughters, two daughters and a son.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: They I'm in the mode of designing my life around both things that I I'm very passionate about, about family, but also I've invested a lot of time and energy into my career as well.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't want to give that up.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: So my office here, I even have a kids' room in the back.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: So the mom's working, they know, they know what to do, but there's there's something really cool about them.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I I know a lot of entrepreneurs involve their kids.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's just one of the things.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: So then watching the experimentation and the growth and the and knowing the intricacies of the behind the scenes, I think it's gonna just give them a context that I didn't have as a kid.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not from a family of entrepreneurs.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: My mom was in corporate, my dad was a sales guy, like it it wasn't part of my universe, but you can tell the kids from entrepreneur families, they just have a little bit of a different mindset about things, and I I think it's it's this ability to be creative and understand that creating value can create opportunities, and I hope they absorb as much of that as they can.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: But yes, I I am doing all the things sometimes not well, but as best we can on a given day, right?
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: I always tell my s I I I say I'm the imperfect action queen because of I and I tell my clients if you waited to be perfect to get on stage, you'll never get on stage.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: And people can't relate to perfect, and perfect women have boring stories anyway.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_00: So you know and so much of that at the beginning, when I started the firm, I I was in I was an associate and a partner at a at a law firm.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have to do any lead generation or um that kind of stuff.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: So so getting out there, just you were like going to the networking events, doing the podcast, doing other things, and it's like no one cares, just get out there and do it.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, the more you can integrate your true personality and your your stories and all the things, the more relatable you are.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's perfect.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: So if there's someone that's waiting, I would say go.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Stop waiting, go for it.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that is a perfect place to end on Melissa.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna have all of Melissa's contacts in the show notes below.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And if there is so if people wanted to find you and go, didn't they want to wait, they could go to the law spot.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: The lawspot.com is uh the website.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can schedule an initial consultation on there.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: If you're an existing client, you can get get to me through there as well.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's got some educational resources.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: I also have LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram where I where I share other tips and things.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: So feel free to absorb as much as that.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I would be happy to to integrate with your audience and thank you so much for having me.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks, Melissa.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: You thanks for all the stories and for your vulnerability.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I know I learned a lot, and I'm please, if you love this, please share this with somebody you love.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's how the podcast grows.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have not, please subscribe, rate, and review because that helps us to get out to more people.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you, Melissa Gray.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much, everybody.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next time.