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Selects: How Gossip Works · Stuff You Should Know

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: M Hey everybody, it's Saturday, and I've got to tell
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: you I heard something about Jerry the other day that
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know if I should say, but if you
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: promise not to tell anyone, I will tell you right now.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: She is pretty great. That's called bad gossip. No one
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: wants to hear gossip like that. The only good gossip
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: is maybe to say that Jerry is not great for
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: a list of reasons. But I'm not going to do
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: that because Jerry is great. But you could listen to
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: this episode from December, a Christmas episode. It's all about
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: gossip and it's called How Gossip Works. Welcome to Stuff
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: you should know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and there's
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Charles w Chuck Bryant and uh, it's just two of
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: us again. Man, not getting any easier. This is just
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: let's getting old, it is, man. We need Jerry back.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Where are you, Jerry? Where did you go? I selfish?
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: Jerry wants to be at home with her baby. Yeah,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: we all went to shopping at Kmart and she wandered
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: off and we haven't seen her since. We all want
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: to be at home with Jerry's baby. Sure, that's a
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: cute baby, but we can't be you know the old
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: joke that Jerry could be replaced with a those dipping
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: birds just to hit record. We were just kidding. It's
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: that's happening. It is true, maybe not the post production stuff,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: but definitely the recording thing. Clearly takes a finger to say, Okay,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: you guys are rolling. Yeah, we cannot stop griping about
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: this time. I know it's just weird. You know, when
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: a threesome becomes to twosome, things get awkward. Yeah, I try,
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: it becomes a diade, or when it twosome becomes a
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: threesome that gets super awkward. Or I mean really, anytime
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: you're moving people in and out of some sort of dynamics,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: it can be weird. Transition could be rough, I think
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: is the that's what you put on the T shirt. Ultimately,
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: al right, the transition is rough anytime you're moving people
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: in and out of a dynamic. Ready, yes, didn't know
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: you say that already. Yeah we're recording, Chuck, I have
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: something for you. Right. I am not much of a
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: gossip at all. I just don't do it. But do
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: you know who does Jerry a lot, and she's really vicious.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: I know she's not here right now, but just between
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: the two of us, I don't gossip. Jerry does, and
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: you should really watch out for her. I heard that
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: she gossips. I'm not saying that, but I just heard that.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: I got you, well, I've seen her do it. She's
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: gossip to me because she finds me very important and
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: likes to confide to me. But it's just so vicious.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: So we just gossiped. We did. That was play acting.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: The ironic thing was that I was gossiping about how
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: I don't gossip. That that came through. Huh, everybody gossips, Yeah,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: I guess so. I mean, apparently people gossip way more
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: than they realize. But I think you're I think gossip
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: is a normal thing. It has such a bad connotation
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: though that people say, like, I don't gossip, I'm not
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: a gossip but liars. Technically, not necessarily even liars. I
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: think it also as far as like linguists and psychologists
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: are concerned, it comes from a misunderstanding of what gossip,
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: what constitutes gossip. That's right, Like, at its basic, barest,
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: bare bottomed element, gossip is simply too, or it can
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: be more but a couple of people speaking about a
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: third person's business while the third person isn't there. There's
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: another person who's being talked about who isn't there. It
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean you're talking about how they're just just
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: what allows you parents. They are sure spending baby shoe
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: money on gambling rather than gambling in order to get
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: more shoes. That's bad parenting right there. There's all sorts
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: of stuff you can say, but you could also say, actually,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: that guy is a great dude. He spends all of
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: his money on nothing but baby shoes. That's gossip. It
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: is gossip, and it's not necessarily harmful. It's in this
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: case you're you're helping someone else's social status in the
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: other people's eyes. That's still gossip. Yeah, I think, um,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: what's this tracy of stuff you missed in history class?
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Wrote this one? That is true? She's always thorough and
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: uh she included in here something I thought was pretty
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: pertinent gossip v rumor Yeah. Uh, And there are differences
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: in Um, well, I say there's differences, but if you
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: ask professionals who study this, and there are weirdos who
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: do that Um, they will say sometimes now it's the
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: same thing. Or a rumor is just a type of gossip. Uh,
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: here's some other distinguishing factors. Gossip is based in fact,
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: rumors are based in hypotheses. Um, I don't know about
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: that one. That makes sense to me because it kind
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: of ties in with the last one. Yeah, gossip is
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: a tool for maintaining social order, which we're gonna talk
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: about at length. Rumor is a tool for explaining things
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: that people do not understand. I'm not sure I get
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: that one. Like there's garbage raining from the sky, it's
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: the government, that's a rumor, okay. Whereas if you're like
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: Charles is up on the roof again dumping his garbage
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: out on the street's technically so yeah, or that's just
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: laying it out there, you know. Yeah true. Uh. And
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: then finally, gossip or late something people believe has happened,
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: but rumor expresses something people hope or fear will happen.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: So I have my own hypothesis of the distinction between
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: rumor and gossip. It's here, Uh, rumor is uncurated gossip rumors.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Any dude walking down the street, you can be like,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: there's garbage falling from this guy and it's the government.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: There's no bond that's formed. There's no requirement of a bond,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: whereas gossip requires some sort of connection, or you're forming
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: a connection from the gossip. You know what I'm saying.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: Rumbor is just for anybody. Gossip is between confidence to
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: an extent. Yeah, and Tracy points that out too, And
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: that is why supposedly celebrity gossip isn't qualified, doesn't qualify
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: as gossip because it's a third party that doesn't know
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: the others in general, unless it's you know, Jennifer Ranison,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: it's talking smack about Angelina. No, she would never do that.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Oh really, No, she loves courting cocks. They're still friends.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Huh sure. Why doesn't she ever have around cougar Town?
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: Then I think she was on cougar Town? Well I
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: stayed corrected, although I have no idea because I've never
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: seen cougar down. Did you hear about what happened when
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: she was on cougar Town? I heard she washed her
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: hair and heavy and water. That's Shannon Doherty? Yeah, that's right.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Is that a rumor? Gossip? I don't know, because we
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: don't know Shannon dherty. Uh. And then there are some
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: other stipulations that researchers point out for gossip that I
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: also take issue with. Some of these. Um, the conversation
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: takes place in private usually the case, yeah, if not
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: like actual private depends on what private means. You you,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: everybody's got the shoulders turn. There's like a creation of
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: a private situation. Yeah, I got you. Uh. People are
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: saying it as if it were fact, even though it's
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: not confirmed. That's definitely true. Yeah, but that's not necessarily
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: the case. That's I take issue with that one. It's
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: kind of like you were saying, like I heard, but
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: I haven't checked it out to take it with a
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: grain of salt. But get this yeah man uh people, Yeah,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: we already talked about that knowing each other. And then
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: the body language and tone, uh suggests a moral judgment.
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: That's a big one, you know, like when people use
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: this tone. But again, that's malicious gossip. Typically there's such
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: a thing, So this is it should be said. Tracy
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: doesn't really say it in this Um. I think she
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: was drinking while she was writing this one. That's what
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: I heard. Um, she didn't lay out that there's really
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: two types of gossip. One is malicious gossip. That's the
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: type of gossip people think about when they hear the
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: word gossip. But the other type, the far more are
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: apparently far more prevalent type, is um regular gossip. Yeah,
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: there's some weird, unsubstantiated stat here that only that five
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: was malicious, Yeah among most gossip. Yeah, how in the
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: world did they pull that out of their key start?
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Here's that's a great question. So they are linguists, historians, uh, anthropologists, psychologists,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: people who started studying gossip for a very long time.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Everyone is aware of gossip, but they're like, it's just noise.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: It's not to be studied, it's to be ignored. And
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, there's this really great article
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: in The Atlantic that talked about gossip and how it
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: was viewed um and specifically, there was this thing in
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: sixteenth and seventeenth century England they didn't like it, called
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: the scolds bridle. And if you want to see what
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: a scolds bridle is, you should check that out online,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: because there are actual such things. But they're basically iron
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: masks with like points sticking into the The woman who
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: was accused of gossip's mouth usually a woman and she
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: would just have to wear that and be publicly humiliated.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: A lot of them had like a leash leading from them.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: So I guess the gossip or the scold is what
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: they used to call, could be paraded around town, right, Yeah,
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: and also get the feeling that a lot of women
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: were probably made to wear those who just talked too much. Yeah,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I would I have the same the same impression because
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: of the time period of So that's how people typically
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: viewed gossip. It was something to be stamped out. It
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: was something that was um very undesirable, and academia treated
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: it the same way. Then World War two came around
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: and I think the government saw that there was some
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: real harm that could be done with gossip, with rumors,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: and they wanted to start to understand that. So that
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: kind of led to the basis of academia investigating what
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: gossip was, what rumors are, and then um, over time
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: organizations got in on the act because there came this
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: idea you that if the rumor mill or the gossip
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: mill in your office was really going over time, you
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: needed to stamp that out. True. They've found the opposite
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: is actually true. Yeah, they found it can do a
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: lot in a workplace to keep people in line, Uh,
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: either by scaring them in line or what it What
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of gossip does in that
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: kind of environment, is it establishes like the norms and
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: the culture is expected out of the bosses. That's like
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: one low level that's like low level background gossip if
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: it's peaking and really working over time. You, from what
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: I understand, you're not supposed to attack the gossips. What
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: you're supposed to do is be more transparent at the top,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: and then people don't have reason to gossip. So it's
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: not It doesn't mean that you have a lot of
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: gossips at your place. That's a normal human situation. As
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: we'll see, it means that your managers and the people
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: who are running the show aren't being open enough for
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: the the hoi polois tastes, right, see what I mean? Yeah,
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: good point, And that was a big thing that came
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: out of study it. But to answer your question, I'm
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: about to finish, they study it by eavesdropping on like
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: people who are talking in cafeterious. That's how about the
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: only way you can Yeah, because it's so spontaneous and
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: it's largely unconscious. Yeah, unless it's you know, just some
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: dumb pole where you're asking people about gossip and self
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: reporting poles like that. I don't put a lot of
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: stock in you know, Well, actually they're funny to look at.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: There's one that found that about we spend about three
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: quarters of our time gossiping apparently. Yeah, and that's in
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: the broadest sense of the definition, right, not necessarily malicious. Yeah,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: because about five percent of that supposed lyst malicious. But
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: people self report gossiping about they they spend about thirty
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: percent of their time. So rather than people are like, oh,
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: only gossip, yea, and all that comes from eavesdropping on
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: people and then asking them afterwards whether they gossip. Tracy
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: points out rightfully so that most world religions have always
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: said gossip is a bad thing. Uh, include in the
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Christian Bible. Uh in Leviticus, Thou'll shalt not go up
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: and down as a talebearer among thy people. Oh that
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: was good. By the way, I wanna echo the kudos
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: that have wrong throughout social media, applauding your scary spider
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: growing redneck man. In the Halloween episode, it was cleardis
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: a slack jold yokel sort of and my friend Big John, well,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: it was good. It was a mashup. I appreciate that
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: it was Big John in New York. No, he's in
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: he's in Atlanta. Okay. Um. I actually thought your your
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: vomit take was the funniest part of the whole thing,
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: the gag, thank you, thank you. Uh. Jewish tour always
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: also says so in Buddhism. We've talked about Buddhism before
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: the eight full Path to Enlightenment. No place for gossip there,
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: my friend, No way, not if you want to become
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: one with the universe, no gossiping. And like like I
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: said earlier too, it's not just the religious hypes that
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: are against it. People. And remember the business world kind
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: of started looking in on this, and they're like, don't
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: gossip if you want to be a good person, don't
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: gossip and spreading unless you're spreading a gossip rumor that
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: we want you to spread. Right, that's the official company line. Uh.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: And then there's this dude, Robin Dunbar, who wrote a
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: book called Grooming, Gossip and the Evolution of Language. And
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: I looked into this guy. He he really goes for it.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: He says that gossip is the whole reason that we
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: have language, and it evolved from primates grooming each other
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: and that took so much time to groom one another
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: and it wasn't efficient. That language was created in order
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: to not have to groom one another, and so you
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: would vocal groom, that's what he called it. So this
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: kind of a big deal. Let's let's take a break
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: for a second because we're pretty deep into this, and
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: we'll talk about Dunbar and his mad ideas after this.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: All right, Dunbar, Dunbar can't put them off any longer,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Robin Dunbar. Yeah, that's a pretty out there theory. I
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: think like Dunbar is saying, we developed language so we
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: could gossip in in essence. Yeah, the tide of grooming
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: is where he loses me a bit, and vocal grooming,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: I'm just he says basically it was a more efficient
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: way to uh service your allies rather than grooming one another. Right,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: So I think what he's saying is that when you
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: win a primate grooms another primate, it's an act of
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: um kindness. It's saying like I'm doing something nice for you.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: It gives the other primate who's being groomed, an opportunity
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: to reciprocate, INSUREM and even stronger bond. Right, scratch my back.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: But it takes a little while to do all this
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: stuff because you're actually going through the act of grooming,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: whereas if you just gossip about somebody, Um, you can
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: do a lot of that same stuff, but just by talking. Yeah,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: but I don't get what it has to do with
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: picking knits out of fur. It's it's I think what
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: he's saying is it's it developed out of that. It
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: serves a lot of the same purposes. Plus also it's
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: entirely possible that gossip began around the time or I
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: guess during grooming sessions. Think about it, If you're just
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: sitting there picking knits out of somebody, are you just
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: gonna sit there silently not chat start chatting? How how
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: easy is it going to be to lead to tuck
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: tuck and what he did after he ate that for minute? Apple, Sure,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: it's like the barbershop or the beauty shop, right kind of. Um,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: there are some different roles though that it does play
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: in social interactions where I guess the grooming thing comes
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: into play. Um, entertaining one another, like you said, influence
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: on one another. That's a big one. Um. Exchanging information,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: that's important, uh. And one of the biggest ones is
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: learning from mistakes that UH linguists point out is a
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: really big part of gossip, or a part of positive gossip,
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: and that there's oftentimes a moral lesson attached to it. Yeah,
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: like you don't want this to happen to you, right, No, exactly,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: and it kind of um in that respect. It gets
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: across somebody who's perhaps a little more established in a group,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: maybe an older person, like ingratiate yourself, right, But but
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: it's also saying, like I'm a part of this group.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: You're a little newer than I am. Let me tell
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: you the story about what this guy did when he
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: transgressed against the group and bad things befell him. Like
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: you said, don't let this happen to you. Don't transgress
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: the group's boundaries, right, And that's important if you get
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: if you're like a new hire, they say, a lot
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: of gossip flies, uh. Like I remember the movie Be Big,
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Remember when Tom Hanks gets hired. Like the very first
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: thing that happens is John Lovitts comes over and starts
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: talking about all the gossip of everyone in the office.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: I don't remember that part. Oh yeah, he talks about
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: like this lady is easy and this guy's a jerk,
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: and it's just pretty common. I think when you get
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: a new job, there's always someone in there that's like
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: And what they're doing, though, is they're not just it's
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: not purely they're trying to help themselves. It's socialization. It's
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: in dr nature. Oh that's not what I thought you
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: were gonna say. No, Like, I think they're trying to
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: be like, well here's a new ally I can get right, Yeah,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: so let me let me you know. I mean, it's
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: it's they're also it's reciprocal, I guess to a certain degree. Yeah,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: both people are getting something out of it. But I mean,
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: you make a good point. The person who is doing
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: the gossiping, especially in that situation, is setting themselves up
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: as a like a wise older sage or advisor, like
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: I know this place. You come to me if you
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: want some information. Well you'll find though over the years,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: is that you should. The first person who comes up
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: and starts gossiping to you about how the office works
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: is usually also the most disliked. Yeah, you know, that's
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: why they cast John Lovett. He's great for that. That
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: or the dude with forehead the size of a dinner
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: plate who was in all the eighties movies as that character?
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Was he the jerkin big I don't know, is the
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: dad from Home Alone? No? No, no, this is um
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: the coked up sidekick from the eighties with the huge forehead.
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: He was in About You. He was the sidekicking mad
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: about you. Oh that guy? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, same
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: same function. Yeah, he's uh. He's in that show now,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: ah with Joey Tribbiani. It's called Joey, Melissa and Joey. No,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: he's on the episodes. Yeah, yeah, he's on episodes too, Okay, great.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: Does he play himself now? He plays a jerk? Um
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: uh TV executive perfect, exactly. I love that guy that.
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: He's such a good actor. No, that's what I'm saying.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: But he always plays that part. He's definitely he's got
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: that part down. You're right, he's not a romantic lead. Um.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: A lot of times. The feeling of superiority is another
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: big part of gossip, like I would never do this um.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: And Tracy also points out the old schaden freuda, which
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: is one of my favorite words. It's a good word
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: and one of my least favorite things. That's you must
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: be very ambivalent about that word. What do you mean? Well,
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: if you love it but you also hate what it means, well,
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: let's got to tear you up inside. Well. I just
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: don't like someone delighting in someone else's misfortune unless it's
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: a bad person. Yeah, Like if the Jimmy John's guy
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: like shot his toe off on a big game hunt.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he's a big game hunter. I would probably
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: think that was kind of you know, just as I
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: think that's acceptable shot in freuda, Okay, especially if it
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: was just a relatively minor injury. You know, you go
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: shod in. Yeah, you say shaden shod and frauda. That's
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: how I say it, So, Chuck, kind of what a
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: couple of Like we've were kind of dancing back and
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: forth across this line, like going to the office, setting
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: up the first day and having somebody come over and
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: tell you how the things work. Yes, there might be
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: a little bit of malicious gossip in there, but for
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: the most part, that's not bad gossip. That's neutral gossip, right,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: But putting someone else down or talking about how how
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: much superior you are by not you would never do
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: what they did. That's definitely the malicious variety. And there's
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: an idea that if gossip evolved like um, Robin yeah, like,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: like Robin Leach says in his post Rich and Famous
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: Career he became an anthropologist, you know, Um, Robin Leach
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: says that if if language evolved as a means of gossiping,
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: the guy takes it further by saying, Um, the reason gossip,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: of the reason we needed that in the first place
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: was because we grew out of these little hunter gatherer
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: bands of like fifteen people, and as our societies grew
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: larger and larger, we weren't as able to be able
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: to keep tabs personally on others in this group that's
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: getting bigger and bigger, So you don't know who to trust.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: You know, if I'm going to leave my crops to
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: somebody while I go on a walk about or something,
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: I need to make sure that all my crops are
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: going to be there when I get back, you know,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: but I don't really know this guy. Gossiping serves that function.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: It's it's like a stand in for being able to
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: keep tabs on everybody else in the society, because when
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: you gossip with somebody, you're sharing a trust, a bond
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: that they're not going to use that information against you
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: that you shared with them. And um, so there's a
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: there's a definite element of trust to it. And when
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: when people gossip in a larger society, they're they're trusting
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: that the person is either vouching for the person or
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: they're being warned against trusting that third party. Right, So
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: it works in that same way that it's like a
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: it's a means of um keeping tabs on everybody at
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: the same time. On the other hand, or at the
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: same time, it's also um a means of social control
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: because if you know people are gossiping about everybody else,
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: then surely they're gonna gossip about you too, which means
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: you better just be an upstanding, upright person. Yeah, there
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: was this uh, this what's his first name, Fineberg, let's
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: just say Dr Fineberg, Dr Fineberg at Toronto in Toronto,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: University of Toronto. He's done some studies and he did
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: find in fact that uh, basically they did these studies
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: where they were um, were you were allowed to exclude
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: non co operators in like a group work setting, and
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: they found that you you set them out for one game,
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: like you've not been playing nicely, so you go sit
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: over there in the corner, and when they came back,
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: they were more likely to behave in other rounds. And uh,
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: if they knew that their behavior was gossiped about people,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: sort of like what you're talking about, the staring, Like
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: if you knew someone was watching you, you would return
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: the grocery cart. If you know, if you know someone's
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: gossiping about you, you're gonna tow that line and get
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: your act together exactly. It's again, it's a means of
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: social control. You know. Who were really really really good
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: at gossiping. Uh, the Puritans in colonial America, they were huge,
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: Like their whole society operated on gossip and the encouragement
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: of gossip. As a matter of fact, I think women
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: were called gossips um and not necessarily negatively. It's just
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: like there was a really good means of social control.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: Not only was God watching you, your neighbors were too,
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: and they would go tell the preacher who would put
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: a scolds bridle on you and maybe them too for
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: telling and toss you in the lake. Yeah, and if
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: you if you drowned, you weren't a witch. All right,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: well let's take another break and we'll talk a little
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: bit more about some studies and some other theories about
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: the origin of gossip. Uh so, Fineberg, we talked about
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Dr Freinberg. Okay, I hope he or she is a doctor, um,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: but if not, we just gave him an honorary honorary
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: doctorate from stuff. You should know you people are going
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: to request those now, which is great, but we can
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: sell them. Uh So. One thing that he found is
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: that gossip can also relieve you, um, physiologically, Like if
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: you know that you're allowed to gossip, you won't get
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: as upset about unfair things then if you had to
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: hold it all in or it's like a way of
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: setting injustice, right yeah, like it's street justice without like
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: a Saudo shotgun as Charles Bronze I would dispense it right.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Uh yeah, good point. Man. Have you gone back and
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: seen Death Wish recently? That is a rough movie. Yeah,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: of course, same with Death Wish too. What did you
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: think it was? I mean, I remember seeing movies when
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: I was a kid and just being like, you know,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: as a growing up You're like, this was nothing. That
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: was something. Those movies were very violent and very disturbing.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: You see, Joles Brunson did not ask questions. No, he
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: just shot everybody. He did. Man, that was crazy. Why
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: why did you go back and rewatch Death Wish? I
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: gotta watch something good? Point it was on. That's why
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I got you. I was like, I haven't seen Death
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Wishing forever. When's the last time you saw it? It's
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: been a while. It's disturbing, especially as an adult. You
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: know what movie I love? What Chardles Brunson movie I love?
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: Is a mechanic? Well, that one's good too. Um, what's
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: it called ten past Midnight? Is that right? I think
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: that's on Netflix. Maybe there was. There was some creepy
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: serial killer, like psycho sexual killer that he was. He
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: was he's always hunting some money. He was the Liam
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Neeson of his day. That was like supposedly a very
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: very underrated horror thriller, horror slasher thriller. I'm with you
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: all the way. I haven't seen it's good though, it's good.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: I'll check it out. Very creepy and and I learned,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: well it's not for kids because I learned some things
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: in that movie. Oh yeah, yeah, it's one of those
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: I can specifically remember. It's like, oh, well, that's how
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: I know what this is. Charles Bronson will teach you
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: all about life, whether you want to learn it or not.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: I think it was ten past midnight. Um, all right,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: sorry about that sidetrack. Where were we? Uh we were
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: talking about the origins of gossip. Oh yeah, there's some
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Did you read the other article I sent? Um? I
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: think it was from the Guardian, I can't remember where.
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: One of the theories is that I was a BBC
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: that hunting and gathering and foraging was a big reason
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: gossiping came about because you had to know, you had
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: to talk about each other, like you know tuk tuk.
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: You know, it's not very good at the hunting, but
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: he's quite the gatherer. So it helps them organize in
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: the most efficient way to get things done, because how
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: is she going to know unless you tell somebody what's
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: going on. So that makes sense, No, it is. And again,
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: if this person, if the if the band is large
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: enough for the civilization is large enough that the person
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: can't keep an eye on tuk tuk all the time,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: that's how that person will gain understanding of tuk tuk's
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: abilities for tuck tuck keeping tabs on poor tuktok uh.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: And then the other cool thing I thought was the
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: uh when we finally learned to harness fire. Uh. This
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: hypothesis is during the day, we were out, you know,
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: trying to stay alive and doing our thing, finding building shelters,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: hunting for food, finding water, and at night when we
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: finally got fire, well before fire, you would just go
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: to sleep and rest because it was dark and it's
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: weird to sit around the dark. But once they had fire,
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: people literally from the very beginning started sitting around and
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: talking about their day and kind of gossiping about what happened.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: And it's amazing. It's hard to blame anybody if you
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: think about it, like, when's the last time you had
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: a legitimately interesting conversation about fantastical stuff? They're there are
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: few and far between. For the most part. People are
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: talking about their day. They're talking about people they work with,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: talking about some dude that cut them off in traffic.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: They're talking about their immediate experience. So of course you're
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: gonna gossip. It's this if if the definition of gossip
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: is talking about people who aren't there every year, right,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: everyone gossips you're going to It's a completely natural thing.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: And I'm totally unsurprised by the idea that it started
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: out at the first campfire, of course, and it still
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: happens today. Apparently, there are researchers who studied um bushmen
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: in the Kalahari Desert in Botswana and they say that
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: the language and the stories and the things they say
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: during the day are completely different than the things they
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: say at night around the campfire. And they say, there's
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: really no reason to think this hasn't always been the case.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: That's neat um. So you said that still goes on
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: to day, And we were talking about modern studies of gossiping, right, Um.
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: One of the there was like a series of studies.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know if they were all from the U
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: of Toronto or not, but they seemed to be somewhat
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: related where it was um. Outside observers could watch people
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: playing games and they noticed cheaters. So they had this
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: information about cheaters that the people playing the games didn't
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: have about the cheaters. And when they were given the
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: the chance to let the players know about a cheater,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: to send him. I think like a gossip note is
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: what they called it. UM. They they would most people
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: would take them up on the offer and would send
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: a note of warning to the person that they were
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: playing somebody who was cheating UM, and they, like you said,
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: they went from being really upset and up in arms
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: to that release valve being undone and every it was
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: fine with the world again because that person had been
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: alerted to cheating through gossiping. So there is such thing
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: as altruistic gossiping as well. Yeah, with altruism. Tracy had
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: another example of let's say there's like a coral group
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: and the self appointed leader is really kind of lazy,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: and if someone um, then other people are kind of
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: making up the slack doing the duties that UM he
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: or she should be doing. So when new comes in
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: the group and they say, hey, listen this this girl,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Jane is the head of the coral group. But you
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: should know don't count on Jane to bring the sheet
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: music for you because she never does it. So that's
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: sort of altruistic in the you're helping someone learn the
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: rules of your new group, but you're also kind of
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: talking smack and making yourself superior to Jane, right. And
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: then so Tracy adde of this one another thing that
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: some people would say that the person who's doing that
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: is really, like you said, just talking smack and isn't
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: really working towards a solution to the actual problem, which
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: is Jane being slack at her job. Right. And I wonder,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: like that's a really good descriptive of what gossip is.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: Like gossip would be talk that's not directed toward any
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: kind of solution. It's just talking. You know, like if
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: you take that same conversation to somebody who can fire
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Jane or make her do her job, you would no
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: one would consider that gossip because it's directed toward a goal,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: towards the solution. So I guess, and that's probably one
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: thing that people don't like about gossip. It's it's really
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, it's just blowing off steam.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: It's not really serving any direct purpose. They all seem
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: to be indirect, like socializing people. I did, now I
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: need an honorary doctor from somewhere. You've got one. Um.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: And then lastly, chuck um. One of the other things,
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: especially from malicious bond Um malicious Um gossip, is that
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: UM when somebody. It's a very dangerous game, right, when
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: you're gossiping with somebody, especially you with somebody that you're
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: not super tight with, um, you you run the risk
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: of scaring that person. Because if there's one thing that
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: people do when they hear gossip, it's they take themselves
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: and put themselves in that situation. And one of the
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: things that you will immediately think when you're being gossip too,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: is well, this person gossips, so they could very easily
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: be gossiping about me. How much should I trust this person?
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: And that's especially pertinent when it's not already like a
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: tight pair, and when the gossip is malicious, you know.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: Good point. Yeah, well it's not mine. I'm just relating facts.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: You ever see you ever watched that Gossip Girl show? No,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: but there's a Twitter handle gossip girl. I'd noticed in
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: my research, and it's like real right, No, it's like
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: real gossip. Really Yeah, I've never seen it either, But
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: that's not real gossip because it's all celebrity gossip, right.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: I think that's a kid's not a kid show show
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: for younger people than me. It's for middle aged man.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Although I do like Blake Lively, so well that was
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: one other thing too, like when I don't we haven't
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: come out and said this. Um, there's a definite perception
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: that gossip is much more prevalent among women. Sure that's
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: not true. No, No, research shows that men and women
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: basically across the board equally gossip. It's old white men. Yeah,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: it's old white old white men under attack in America.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: You got anything else? Uh? No, sir, being trolley? You
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: know that? Yeah? Uh. If you want to know more
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: about gossip, you can type that word in the search
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: bar at how stuff works dot com and it will
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: bring up this article complete with totally superfluous illustrations that
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: will baffle the mind. Um, did you see him? Yeah,
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: it's just weird. I kept looking like did I miss
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: a story or something that relates to that. It became
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: a game find the meaning? Uh? And I think I
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: said search bar, and I think I said how stuff works.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: But either way, it's time for listening. Now I'm gonna
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: call this Disney Disney band. Hello, Chuck, Josh and Jerry
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: and Neil. He really wouldn't Neil the chair, No, Frank
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: was the chair. I think he means nol probably, So
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: it's just hilarious. I've been listening for a few months now,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: binging episodes like uh, well, I can't see what she says. Um.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: I just listened to your part one of Fairy Tales
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: in the last time on my way to work. The
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: reason I'm writing is about the original Little Mermaid story.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: When I was growing up, my parents were hardcore Southern Baptist.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: During my childhood, the Southern Baptist Convention did not like
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: that Disney was friendly towards homosexuals and supported evolution, so
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: they called on all the churches to boycott Disney. So
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: my parents, a good Southern Baptist that they were, took
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: everything Disney out of our house and we weren't allowed
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: to have any Disney clothes or watch the Disney Channel,
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: and of course no Disney movies. So when the Disney
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: version of The Little Mermaid came out in nine I
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: was in first grade, all my friends watched it, loved it.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: My mom was at a loss. Luckily, Golden Films released
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: their own version of The Little Mermaid and my mom
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: bought it. I watched this many times as a child,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: honestly thinking this is the only vision. Didn't learn until
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: a few years later when I saw the original at
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: her friend's house. Um, boy, I bet she felt like
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: watching The Little Mermaid. It's in color. Uh. This version
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: I saw followed the original story by Hans Christian Anderson,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: complete with a terrifying sea witch and the suicide at
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: the end, which was a great movie for a first grader,
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: the sea which started my nightmares. That's about the time
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: that I started smoking cigarette. So thanks for all the
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: great side tracking as well as the amazing content you provide.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: And that is from Lindsay. Well, thanks a lot, Lindsay
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: appreciate that. I'm glad you finally got to see The
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Little Mermaid. I like that she thanked us for side tracking.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Some people do. Sure, it's pretty infrequent people are like
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: to you on point, and when they do, I'm like, buddy,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: you have a long archive to go through. If that
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: bothers you, We've got There's a lot of good sidetracks today.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: And it was ten past midnight, by the way. Nice um.
• 36:18
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