Latest / WHAT I'VE LEARNT / What I've Learnt - Maggie Zhou

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What I've Learnt - Maggie Zhou · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Maggie Zau is a Melbourne-based writer, editor, slow fashion advocate, and the co-host of the Culture Club podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: She's written for publications such as The Guardian, ABC and The Age.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: She's also appeared on the project, The BBC and ABC.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: She's previously held positions at Fashion Journal and Refinery29 and is currently Broadsheet's fashion editor at large.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: She's a significant culture vulture and she crosses a lot of mediums.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Recently attending the Melbourne Fashion Festival, she has lots of tips on what we're seeing, what to wear, sustainability, and where we're heading in the fashion arena.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm thrilled to welcome Maggie Zow to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Maggie.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for having me, Deborah.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolute pleasure.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: We are kindred souls because we both work in the media and we know the power, the pain, and the pleasure of working in the media.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: I can see that's something that you do quite a lot, very similar to me.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a little bit about how you embarked on this journey.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, my pleasure.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: I've been working in media for just over five ish years now.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: And at uni, I studied a double degree.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: At uni, I studied a double degree of Media Comms and communication design.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: And through my time as a teenager, I spent a lot of time online on micro blogging sites and then social media sites, where I started to find my own sense of identity.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: And through that, my love of fashion.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it came through quite organically.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: It was just what I was naturally drawn to.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh coming out of uni, I got my first job at Refinery 29 as a writer and producer there.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: Before moving on to Fashion Journal, I was a branded content and features editor there.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: To now I'm foraying into the freelance world as I do content creation as well, on top of uh traditional media work.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I know it's a long, it's a long story, but to get to where I am now, um, I am Broadsheet's fashion editor at large, and that's a part-time role, so I can still continue my freelancing on top of that.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think first of all, congrats on all of the above.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've been in journalism a long time, a lot longer than you in that sense.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: But what I love about it and hearing what you're doing is the flexibility, the pivot, and the ability to do a ray of things, and one doesn't cancel out the other.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, one serves the other.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I find that myself compared to when I started out as a journalist.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you had a job, I worked at the age, and I worked at some of the major papers, and that's what you did.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you didn't write or do anything else.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Now we can do so many things across the board, and it really is something that's supported.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: In particular, your role uh with Broadsheet is quite a relevant one, particularly saying we've just had the Melbourne Fashion Festival, and which is a wonderful cultural experience.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me a bit about, first of all, how your role at Broadsheet has filled your cup, and then secondly, what you saw at Melbourne Fashion Festival, because we are the cultural epicenter of Australia.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm so happy that I'm at Broadsheet.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's a relatively new position for myself.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: We're coming up to maybe four or five months or something.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: And there I get to really have fun.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: I am allowed quite a lot of autonomy there, where I get to pick my features and pick the topics I want to explore.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's been really nice, especially as this is quite a different publication to the ones I've previously worked at.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm flexing different muscles, I'm learning a lot of new skills.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_02: They're quite um I really like working for this very dynamic uh media company.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: They've been around for about 15 years, uh, but they still have like a sub-editor desk and they have, you know, a photo editor and they have a lot of these attributes, I guess, of a media company that I haven't actually been that familiar with before.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Which I grew up with.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: So all of that was like absolutely, you know, intrinsic to working in a media company.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm interested to hear that they still have that on board and and in some ways it creates structure and sort of anchoring.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you find that?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: Completely.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: And to value these skills and talent and having people dedicated for these like particular tasks, I think is so important.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, as you as we were talking about just before, nowadays in media, you're almost expected to wear a lot of different hats and do a lot of different jobs, which can be great, especially when you're somebody who's curious and who likes a lot of things.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, I mean, no one can do everything, right?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, that's very important because streamlining and and and sort of accepting that you're focused on a task rather than trying to do too many things at once.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: So you become a master of, what is it, jack of all trades, master of one, which you don't want to do.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that's an interesting juggle, and I understand that.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: But in your role at Broadsheet, first of all, broadsheet's it's established itself really as a go-to cultural resource for a lot of people for food, for the latest restaurants, for the latest everything.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: How are you finding?
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because I really think they've sort of come out of almost nowhere.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And now people, I mean, everyone follows them pretty much on Instagram.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And you know that if you're looking for that latest new restaurant or what's happening, you tend to go to Broadsheet.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of people I know do that.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's interesting how they've created that, considering there are so many other mainstream resources.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: What's your thoughts about why that's become why they've become successful at that?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think Broadsheet does such a fantastic job of it because you're hard, you're right.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's a hard market to break into.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: We're not even talking about publications nowadays, we're talking about different social media accounts and different people because we all have we all have opinions, and that's something that we should value.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think for me, seeing Broadsheet grow over the last decade or so, it's been really cool to watch because I actually think broadsheet's very discerning and they have a point of view and they're not afraid to have an opinion.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think sometimes with a city type of coverage, we want to be quite flattering and glowing all the time.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: While that's great, and we should be supporting, you know, our local community.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's also nice to just take a stand for some things or be a bit cheeky with it.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why I think what sets Broadsheet apart, I think that's why people can trust them as well.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a really good point.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so in your role as Broadsheet's fashion editor, um, how have you found?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Tell me about Melbourne Fashion Festival.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go through some of the amazing, um, which obviously I saw and attended some of them, but you you can give us a little snapshot because every year it's one of my favorites.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: Melbourne Fashion Festival is such a fun and vibrant cultural event, I think.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: I've been attending for, yeah, close to a decade as well, actually.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: And this year was particularly, I think, really, really colourful, really joyous as well.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, there's a few standout runways that we typically see.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: So opening night runway really platforms more established high street brands, things like Age and Vic and Woods.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we saw Gail Sorondo from Brisbane as well.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the crux of the week really does highlight Melbourne's designers.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: We have such an incredible underground scene or emerging designer scene who do things just really interestingly, and they aren't afraid to uh be creative and expressive with their style.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's not that kind of uh one box must-fit all, but we really do see some like avant-garde designs, some like super girly designs, super preppy designs.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: And there's also a massive focus on sustainability throughout the runway.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: There was even a runway called uh New Again runway, which focused on uh designers who really champion circularity and who use upcycled materials and who have a different point of view.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's yeah, and it's very important because that's really a big talking point about how I mean, I always find it a bit of a conundrum, to be honest, because on some level, first of all, I'm a fashion tragic, so I'm I love fashion and and I often post about it and I wear lots of brands, obviously targeting very much my listenership.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: So it's often mature, not always, but you know, but in some ways that's also an interesting discussion, too, because now it's there's such a crossover, it doesn't matter if you're 20 or 40 or 60, you can wear it all.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really changed.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: It does you don't have to be so, you know, once upon a time over 40, women had to wear a certain look.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, on that note, one of the highlights to me was that wonderful the uh F the invisible runway.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was so cool, and they had women over, was it over 40?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_01: Over 40, yeah.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was wonderful, and they looked so good and so cool, and they were wearing all these brands.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: What did you think?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is it you know, in from your perspective?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, uh, it's incredible to see that this was the second year that they've run this runway because it was so popular last year as well.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_02: And to me, when while we're challenging fashion's taboo in terms of things like, you know, fat uh the fashions industry uh has been fat phobic for, you know, a long time, has been uh has had racist ideals.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: But now, yes, I think it's so important to also spotlight how ageous it's been.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: And while we embrace fashion for all, that's gonna help all of us.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like I am so happy that we're having this conversation more so now as well, because it's it's so important.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: And come on, aging is a privilege, we know that.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're lucky enough, you're gonna hit these ages and you wanna you wanna feel fashionable, you want to feel represented.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Very much so.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, it's interesting because I was in Arge the other day, which my often my daughters shop in, and I just looked at half the range is like Boho retro back to like the 70s, right?
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: And to what we wore, and it's all like back.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, and then I looked at the Chloe range, you know, that what's come out on Chloe and Zimmerman.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: Both of those ranges are completely retrospective to my generation and honoring the beautiful Lux Boho that disappeared for a while, and there was so much structure.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Not that there's there's also structured, very structured pieces as well in other brands.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think about that notion of of um sort of honoring the past?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I think it's so important.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: Fashion is so cyclical, and we do see trends have about a 20-year kind of return period where uh things, of course, come back again and they come back in different ways as well.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I like how we borrow and look back into the past and then use our modern lenses to kind of interpret it for who we are today.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's so much inspiration to take from the past, as well as, you know, even talking about like the Bobo movement, a lot of it stemming from post-war peace movements.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of culture and history tied to fashion trends.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I always push back on when people think fashion is a frivolous something, because it's really not.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: We're all involved in the fashion system, and I think that becomes really obvious when we're looking at uh past trends.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I really like that that uh point you raise, which is the historic um political and be it environmental, be it whatever it is, the the the way that fashion can symbolize and reflect a time in history.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that that that's I can see there's a lot of that.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I also saw this wonderful um, you know, there's been quite a lot of interviews with some of the designers.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: I saw Lisa Barron do a really interesting interview.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's good to talk about it because you're right, fashion is often seen as frivolous.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: And and the conundrum I was referring to, by the way, beforehand was the weird thing is we have this push and drive to buy new clothes, to support the industry, to support young and new designers, but also to support existing designers, because obviously we want a high street, wherever that might be, Brunswick Street, Ligel, wherever.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, there's this circularity, which is also very critical.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, like my sister, she's involved with Thread Together, which she founded, which is a big um circular economy focus on how do we make use of unused fashion, right?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the constant dilemma is oh, we really want that new dress, it's amazing.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna support a designer by buying it.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: But hey, I've got seven, the same.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, or yeah, theoretically, thematically, you know, they're all black, for example.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: So how do we juggle?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's an interesting thing, particularly for your generation, juggling the need for new fashion and it being a reflection of a time and art and history, but at the same time not being wasteful.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's quite challenging.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this tension is so strong in myself and in my peers.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's such a good point because the thing is, what drew me into fashion, to be honest, was the sustainability uh movement.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_02: That's what actually got me personally invested because I was thinking about hey, who's actually making my clothes?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: How are they being treated?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: And at the same time as this, I care about the sustainability and ethical side of fashion because I love fashion.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Fashion and clothes are so much fun, they bring us so much joy.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, how do we balance these two?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: Opposing at times thoughts for me, and I know this doesn't answer the big question because you're right, like supporting emerging and independent designers is so important.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: But for me, I would say my personal shopping habits probably see me shop secondhand 85, 90% of the time.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that's something that's really core to my values, um, both aesthetically, but also value-wise as well.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but at the same time, I definitely do want to be supporting independent artists and designers.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it's finding that balance.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that's interesting because when we were like when I was closer to your age, the big thing was to go to Greville Street, right?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Where all the secondhand stores were.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it was, you know, and then at university we had a massive every Friday, there was a massive, massive um secondhand vintage store that was very cool.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you could go at lunchtime and you could shop, right?
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what everyone did in university, right?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then that sort of vanished, and then now it's come back, and it's really interesting to hear your generation in particular talk about valuing that and seeing that as something that that is sort of come back into fashion.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Excuse me.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think there is a very when you go into, you know, obviously in the workforce, it's interesting too.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's sort of, particularly with young professionals that I know, if they are working in the office, they have an expectation to dress a certain way.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not necessarily vintage, yeah, because it's not aligned with the corporate culture.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: So true.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got all of that.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: So then you've got the, I don't know, the traditional, the cookies, the country roads, and all of those who have all struggled to find their feet again, but in a strange way, they're servicing the same thing they did 30 years ago, which is you're starting your first job, you need to wear a cool little suit, you know, you want to look.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's an interesting thing because I think in the creative space, there's a lot of sort of opportunity to wear vintage and to look cool and to drive your own vision.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas I think in the very traditional corporate roles, the expectation's pretty similar, you know, to what it has always been.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you are right that for most people, fashion is functional, and that's kind of the basis.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: I will say to that as well, because when we look at vintage fashion, there's not a set definition, but most people agree that it's about 20 years old is when you can consider something vintage.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_02: And now that is 2005, right?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: And and sometimes I think we have to separate vintage fashion from secondhand fashion uh because you know that could be something that was made last year or or three years ago.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: So for instance, a lot of my wardrobe basics and workwear are still made up of secondhand clothing.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: I can I can picture some like grey trousers I own or uh college shirts I have, which aren't vintage, but they are secondhand and they kind of plug in those gaps for me.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: But it can be hard.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: You're right.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think like the the first job, the allure of the first job or going to a new job, sorry, um, you you do kind of have that expectation to look a certain way.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, once again, that brings us back to your point, which is fashion has a very important functional role.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: It is not frivolous because if, for example, you know, let's say you're a young lawyer or you're a young doctor or whatever it is that you, for argument's sake, as opposed to a young designer or artist, or it there is a lot of that pressure to dress a certain way.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: But also, if you go to see your professional, you have a certain expectation as the as the client, right?
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's just an interesting fashion reflection.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And um, I suppose my reflection is has it changed or is it just a reinvention of the same thing?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I find really interesting.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think so much of fashion has stayed similar.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: Like a lot of the values that we hold to fashion, how it makes us feel, and why how visual visuals are so important to humans, that stayed the same.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: I think what's really changing is the system, the system behind fashion and how fast we're manufacturing.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: We're seeing the rise of ultra fast fashion platforms like Xi Yin that weren't around, you know, two decades ago.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it's changing the pace of fashion so dramatically.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: And from that, it's changing how our relationship with fashion and how we uh interact with it.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: The way we're buying buying clothes is so different to how our parents or our grandparents treated their own clothes.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_02: And that kind of scares me, that speed of things.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't have any answers, but I do think that's something that is a bit worrying.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: More than a bit.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: A lot worrying.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, um, you've obviously seen those piles and piles and piles and piles of clothes, even on the Indonesian, um, but you know, some of the Indonesian outlets and some of the um like on the beaches, and and I mean, it's just it's horrific actually.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it's monolithic waste.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: But you're right, it's because they're pumping out so much, so cheaply.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing is if you've ever, I don't know if you've, I'm sure you've actually seen some of those Shine Shane, Shine.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Shein, yeah.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she and um, but actually, I I was there was one that I saw, I don't know in what context, but I was smelling it.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: It smells of like putrid, like it smells of some sort of really toxic something.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what they put in that ink, but it sound it smelt like scary, like not healthy.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: So there's also all of that side of things, the pollutants and the of pumping stuff through so fast.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, that's a whole discussion in itself.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: The main thing is you're right, my generation, when we were your age, didn't have that.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Your generation has to deal with that and will deal with that hopefully over time.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: In the meantime, other highlights from Melbourne Fashion Festival.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: What else have you got on Slate that you loved?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, well, the winner of the National Designer Award this year uh is a Melbourne-based designer called Amy Lawrence, and she makes the most beautiful, beautiful, I can't even describe them all, but I would say a lot of dresses and skirts, and they're very um, they're very bespoke, and she really heralds her inspirations to um old ways of making.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: So looking at the 19th century way of designing.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: So she she grabs inspiration from like different dressmaking, like patterns and brochures that she's found.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_02: And what you see when you look at her designs is something quite whimsical, quite romantic, uh quite feminine, and quite like just so unique, like so unique down to the um detailing.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: So some of her pieces, the patterns are as part of her gowns, actually have like a, I think it's about um a five millimeter gap uh purposely left in between different um patterns.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a little yeah, panels, yeah, and there's a little crisscross cross um detailing.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just that attention to detail, everything's made to order, everything's um finished in her studio.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's really, really breathtaking.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: See, well, that's the art of fashion.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's what that is really, and I think there is a a real move back to that too.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: People, I mean, it's always been around, you know, whether, you know, this is where all the Diors and all the amazing coutures started, you know, was really doing it like that.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's wonderful to hear that about her.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll have to look her up.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: She sounds sounds gorgeous.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so she won the what was the the award she won?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it's called the National Designer Award.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's been going on for almost 20 years now, I think.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: And David Jones sponsors it.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: So she takes home a 20K cash prize as well as a mentorship program through David Jones and other things.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they also have a sustainability nod uh in that award, and that was one by hyphen, which is a relatively new uh label.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: I hadn't heard of them, but they've really championed zero.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Waist design.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: So doing really incredible things there.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: The third part to the National Design Award was as a people's choice.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: And the winner of that was uh Lavan.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: Lavan makes incredible, beautiful uh dresses and skirts.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's a women's wear label here, and it's just um incredible.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's already stocked in David Jones, actually.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: So she's really excellent.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: So Lavane is spelt how for our listeners?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, great question.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: L-O-V-A-A-N.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, double A.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: Double A, yes.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's good for our listeners who are often big fashion followers and will be out.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that is also interesting too because you talk about the David Jones sponsorship, you talk about all that.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the big, the big shopping centers and the big um, the big uh fashion stores, you know, they've had their challenges, as you know.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a particularly challenging time for many of them.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think the way that we shop?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: I personally am like, I like give me the outdoor strip.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: I love going from shop to shop to shop.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: I find those shopping centers quite, while they have everything you possibly need, they're quite daunting and they're quite overwhelming.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: They're also very much, you know, in your face, like massive.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: Everything's just on a massive scale.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think about the way that we're shopping?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: And what have you heard anything about changes in shopping habits?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, completely.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: I was talking to Oz Post recently, talking uh and seeing how much retail spending has gone up, and it's gone up so drastically.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: And that's of course changed how we shop in person.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was speaking to Lauren Nichols, who is the founder of Stable, which is a women's wear boutique in uh Albert Park here in Melbourne.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: She's just opened up Maine in Collingwood, which is um a youth-oriented multi-brand boutique.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's very cool, right?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: And talking about opening up retail at the end of 2024, she was like, you have to give customers an experience now.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just giving them a space, a look at clothes, it's about a memory created or like a moment to hang or to experience something collectively.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's definitely what she's doing in this really beautiful Collingwood space.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a couch area, there's incense burning.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's really vibey.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's kind of what you need with retail nowadays is something to set you apart.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, people are just going to click through on their phones as well.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like it can be so much more convenient.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's very true.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Very true.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm interested to hear that because I certainly resonate that myself.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously, places like Husk started that notion of come in and have an experience.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they really resonated that when they first started.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a little bit sort of uh inventive at the time and innovative.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're right.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think people can't, they don't want to just go in and just get something off the rack and just sort of and attention to service.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I don't know, it's interesting to me because, like, for example, you go to a David Jones, and as much as they're great because they've got everything you need, it is a very weird way to shop because you sort of just meander through, and I've been doing this for years, obviously.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but you meander through, and there's a sense of dislocation as everything is just big boxes of brands, in a way, like in big spaces with very little interpersonal exchange.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Do you is that something that you know coming from what you're describing?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: And yet it's what you know, it's obviously where a lot of people go because they know they can get everything they want.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: You can get your Mac makeup, and then you can go over and you can get your, you know, whatever dress you need or whatever shirt you have to get.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: So there's there's this sort of convenience, but it cannot necessarily be such a beautiful experience at times.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if I'm always the best person to speak about this because in my personal life, I'm really trying to like slow down my fashion consumption so much so that on the journey of me cutting out fast fashion or at least reducing it dramatically in like 2019, I actually stopped going inside like fast fashion shops because it's so convenient, like you said, but it's also really uh alluring and it's really easy to buy.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: So for me, actually physically removing myself from these spaces has helped.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, also online as well, you know, unfollowing some brands because when you're constantly seeing things, you want things.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: So true.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: So true.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: So that's kind of my experience with it.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: I know I'm not the best to speak on that.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: No, I think you're very, it's very relevant because I think that that's what people need to do if they want to take action.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, you walk into for argument's sake, a big store, you know, the big department stores, and you've got HM the size of the entire, you know, it goes right up to the roof, right?
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: Zara.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: They're all literally the biggest, brightest, lightest, most open.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think it's it says something because what does that tell you about in terms of where people are shopping?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, that's not changing that much.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be interesting to see what happens in a decade and to see whether there is some sort of transformation.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, oh, I completely agree.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're right.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Even in uh Melbourne, the HM is in the general uh post office.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's called the GPO building, which is one of like the most beautiful corner blocks, Berk Street Mall.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: And you're right, when we put a fast fashion brand inside a prestigious building like that, we're elevating its status as well.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: So, like it all feeds itself.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that is a really important point because it's all about, and then it becomes about sort of at what point does marketing PR and everything, and you know, even sometimes I don't know if you think about this too, but sometimes I'll walk in, like you'll go to a uniclope and you'll go, okay, I can get five white t-shirts, right?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: For X, right?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: And they're all exactly the same, yeah, as you can get almost anywhere, right?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you need the white t-shirts, but you're going, wow, this is almost insane that they have just streamlined what everybody needs, yeah, very cleverly, right?
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but it sort of feels sort of uh so so incredibly marketed, it could probably cost them a dollar to make, and you pay$29, whatever it is, and you just think there's something really strange about the way everything's been structured with 100% markups, and you know, we're we're really it's very hard to challenge.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: This is so good that you're bringing this up because I actually think that the fashion industry has become just so normalized that you don't bat an eye.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: I used to think as a teenager that$20 for a t-shirt was too expensive, right?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that was what my brain had taught me because I was seeing these$5 bargain bins everywhere.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, oh, that's the value of clothes, that's the worth of clothes.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: But that's not the case.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I think uh local Melbourne brands, uh, both of now who who aren't trading anymore, but Arnstorf and ABCH, I think it's still accessible on some websites, but they actually had for each garment on their uh on their website, they would break down the exact cost of thread, of labor, of marketing, of everything.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then you see their markup.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that transparency is incredible because we've actually removed the human element when we look at clothing.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_02: We don't, they it's on purpose.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: No one wants to think about the makers in a third world country in the global south who have made your garments for like in terrible conditions with terrible pay.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that's definitely on purpose.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: And when we see beautiful marketing campaigns, especially by the likes of Zara or HM, who are getting, you know, models and photographers who are getting paid a pretty penny to sell this fantasy, it's an it's an illusion, it's a distraction tactic.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's when I was just listening to you, I was thinking, you know, like for example, there was a big movement that meant that now every cereal packet has to have a breakdown, yeah, of what's in it.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Same with every food product.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Why isn't there transparency with fashion?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't understand.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I'm buying a, for argument's sake, a$500 dress, which is a fortune, right?
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: How much of that is going to the brand?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Probably$400 of it, realistically.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's just insane.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then you've got, you know, you've got all the other, I mean, uh it depends obviously on the brand, but there's something I think we've really got an interesting um point there because I think it's happened in the food industry because of the impact on health.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I reckon the impact of shopping and the constant messaging that that clothes will this is what I'm saying.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: The dilemma is clothes will make you feel better.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, they will.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they do for all of us.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: But they can also be diabolical in terms of people with financial pressure, people taking out ridiculous loans and afterpay and non-stop just to get whatever it is they have to get to feel better and to go on.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: And we all can relate to that.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like no one, so I think it's it's a very it's a bigger discussion, but I think in your role as a fashion editor, you're in a position to do some of this, which obviously you do, you do some of this work and explore some of these issues because it's a conversation that may lead to some action.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Starting sustainability is certainly on everyone's lips.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I I mean you said Fashion Festival reflected that.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so on another front, do you think what what do you see up ahead in terms of what's happening with fashion and what what what's your next sort of task or article or yeah, I think when we're having these big discussions about sustainability, they can be very daunting.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I'm putting myself in the listener's shoes, right?
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because it can be like, oh, the these two women can uh sound high and mighty, you know, talking about these big topics.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: I think at the end of the day, what I want to stress, and what I think is kind of where fashion is hopefully more ending up, is that there is empathy in this space as well, and that sustainability isn't all about buying a 400 pair of pants, right?
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's actually it doesn't cost you anything, it can cost you nothing, and it's about slowing down consumption habits all round.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, one of the founders of Fashion Revolution, which is a like a fashion sustainability movement, uh, has a really good quote.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: And she says something like, the most sustainable garment is the one already in your wardrobe.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: So to me, sustainability is about re-wearing our clothes, treating them with respect, you know, reading their care labels and making sure you're adhering to that.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm not telling anyone to not buy at fast fashion brands because I know we're in a cost of living crisis.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: We do need clothes to be functional.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: But I do challenge the notion that people need to buy, you know, 10 new pieces from Sheehan every month.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: Because in Australia, on average, we are buying 56 new items each a year, right?
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if all of those are basics or like we need all of them.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's for me, it's a lot.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's for me, it's about reducing that.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe you buy, you usually buy five new um dresses a month.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe next month it's two, right?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we can all look at our purchasing habits a little bit more closely.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a very, very helpful suggestion.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: And on that note, I'd like to thank you so much, Maggie, for our chat.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to have you come back on and keep talking to us about what's happening in fashion because uh you really are at the core face of all of that.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's been really interesting to hear your perspective.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for having me, Deb.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: I've really loved this.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, take care.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Bye bye.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Love Dev.