Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Girl in the Box - Colleen Stan

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The Girl in the Box - Colleen Stan · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: In the seventies, hitchhiking wasn't necessarily considered dangerous. It was
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: a mode of transportation used by many, much like today's
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: ride sharing companies, but without the paper trail. And for Colleen,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: her last hitchhiking trip would take away seven years of
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: her life. This is the story of Colleen stan the
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Girl in the Box.
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, I'm Ben And this is Wicked and Grim,
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: a true crime podcast. Good morning the following podcast semi
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: mature audience listener dis question is that much? Ah? We
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: almost missed it last time, so I had to like
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: start it with the cracking of the camp.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you would have realized eventually, I would have.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: But still I wouldn't take you that long.
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Long enough missing almost missing it is long enough. Happy Tuesday,
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Happy Tuesday. Welcome back to Wicked and Graham, the most bestest,
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: awesomest podcast out there. No, definitely not the show where
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: we drink and that's about it.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: I think we're pretty awesome.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: We talked about crime shows and crime stuff, crime crime cases.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: We talked about crime cases and cool and stuff. Yeahs
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: and things. Oh wow, how that.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: There we go? There we go?
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: So what's shaken it's pretty quiet around here. Lately, it
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: has been our weather. I mean, it sounds cliche to
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: just start talking about the weather, but our weather is
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: actually noteworthy. Right now. It's been like melting plus three plus.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Five January in Canada, Northern Canada.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Are we concerned northern? Yeah, we're northern British Columbia.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but like we're actually right in the middle when
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: you look at it.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: All like the gateway to the North. I think they
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: call it.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah, I did make rice Crispy squares today,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: and fun fact, I made Christmas rice Crispy squares. They
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: didn't make them at fucking Christmas time.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: They were festive.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: I meant to make them at Christmas. But you know what,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: life's busy.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: Sometimes and that's okay. Sometimes sometimes things don't go away,
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: sometimes things take a little extra time, and that's okay.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: Well, honestly, like, who would want just normal rice crispies
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: because I could almost be boring. So it's like nice
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: that they're colored and fun.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I would just take any Rice Krispy squares.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: I think I want to try making normal rice Krispy
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: squares and then like dipping it in some sort of
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: like colored chocolate and then have sprinkles on there like.
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: Dip it in like fully coming.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: No, just part of it, like maybe one end.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: Why don't you just drizzle it over top.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Right, mister logic, I'll do both and we can see
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: which is better.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure the drizzle over tiba.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it would taste better all around.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm not talking about taste. I'm just talking about convenience.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: Would be way less messy making it and eating it.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: I think, jero true, true, true. What did you say, I.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Don't know, I say too, shay and true, and then
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: they just combined and I created a new word.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Fair enough. It happens. It happens to the best of us.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: Okay, So we got some Patreons to thank.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: We do. We had a few people signed up for
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: Patreon this week, and here we go, because we list
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: everyone that signs up in the week and give a
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: big old thank you in the show. If you don't know,
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: you do now. And here we go to thank those
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: people that signed up this week. We have Nicky Lloyd,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Seanna Wenzel, Matthew Hobbes, and Raven Fuller. They all signed
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: up for Patreon. That gets me exclusive behind the scenes content.
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: They get to go sign up and be part of
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: our Discord channel and at the end of the month,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: last day of the month exclusive episode, so they get
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: that too.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: That's the biggest and best bonus.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: Yes it is. Yeah, So yeah, what do you got
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: for us today? What's happening over in the true crime world?
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: For stories on the Wicked and Grim on this beautiful Tuesday.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: I don't think you're ready for it.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: I'm not.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Have you heard of this case? Actually?
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: What case is it? Colleen stan Oh, the Girl in
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: the Box? Yeah, yeah, you know a lot about it.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: I don't know a lot about this case, but I
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: know of the case. Let's put that. Yeah, I think
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: it's a pretty call.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: It's like a more famous one, yes by But yeah,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: like I didn't really know. I just knew kind of
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: the gust of it. Right, So we're kind of diving
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: in a little deeper today.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: Well, let's do a deep dive. I do know that
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: she's a survivor, right she is? Yeah, which is awesome
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: to be.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: It is so incredible because given what she went through,
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think I would be. So it's pretty amazing
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: what some people can like with their mind and their will,
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: like survive.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: What they're capable of pushing, unbelieving. Yeah, fair enough.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. So in nineteen seventy seven, Colleen stan was
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: twenty years old. She was living at home with her
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: family in Eugene, Oregon. So that's not super.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: Far away from us NOE notes on the Sunshine Coast.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and was working on building a life for herself
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: when she got an invitation to go down to northern
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: California to spend time with a friend. This friend was
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: having a birthday party, and Colleen knew that she wanted
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: to go, and she had a way to get there.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: She had her own car, and the plan was to
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: just drive down and test the waters to see what
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: becoming a little bit more independent would look like. So
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: one morning in May, Colleen got up, said goodbye to
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: her parents, and got in her car, only for the
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: car not to start.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Of course, I was about to say, this is quite
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: literally like any young twenty year old's dream road trip
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: down to the sunny California the Organ Coasting, Right, Yeah,
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: go through the Organ Coast. She's headed down to California
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: and her car road trip and just live in the
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: life and going on an adventure.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: But yeah, and it'd be my dream as well, no.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: Kidding, can we do this? Can you imagine just podcasting
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: on the road. They'd be dope.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: Oh, that would be dope.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: That'd be so awesome.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: We should be possible to Well.
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: We have technically done it once in Vancouver.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so like in a van, let's get a van and.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: Just just go and hopefully the van would start.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, so many of us today, I think, would just
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: call the whole trip off, right, or we would wait
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: until our car got fixed.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, fair enough.
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: But in the seventies, and with Colleen really wanting to
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: go to this party, she got her backpack out of
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: her car, sagodbye to her parents, and once again headed
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: towards the road on foot, and this time the plan
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: was to hitchhike down to her friend's house in California.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Thumbs out inside of the highway mm hmm.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Calling actually made it from Eugene down to Red Bluff
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: in California, and she was almost there when she waited
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: at the side of the road and stuck her thumb
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: out to ask for another lift, because I'm I'm don't
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: me like, I have no idea how many vehicles you'd
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: have to get in but like you kind of get
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: into one, they take you to the furthest point, then
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: you get out and like and then onto.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: The next vehicle they take you a little further and
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: so on and so forth.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Like I just I would never be able to do that.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I would rather like take months and walk. To be honest,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I just can't trust people. I mean,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: we live in probably a little bit of a different world.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: But yeah, there's no way.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: No, Well that that's half a century away, right, Yeah.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: So one car pulled over and stopped, but Colin got
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: a bad feeling about the people driving it, and so
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: she said no thanks. Another car pulled over, and apparently
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: there were five men already in this car, and calling
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: thought it wouldn't be a good idea for her to
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: get in the same car with five young men all
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: on her own.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, probably could call on that part.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: So she said no thanks again and waited for someone else.
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: So she was being smart, which is good, which is good,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: It's really good. And in the classic case of third
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: times the charm, the next car that pulled over to
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: offer her a lift looked much more promising than the
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: other two. This time it was a blue van and
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: inside was a young couple, Cameron and Janice Hooker, with
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: their baby in the back seat. Cameron was twenty three
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: years old and a lumber worker, and his wife, Janie
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: was actually even younger than Calling. Janis was only nineteen
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: years old. They offered Calling a lift, and Calling liked
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: what she saw and felt safe around a young family, like,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, there was a baby in the back seat, right, Yeah,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: So she told them where she was heading, and when
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: they agreed to take her part of the way, she
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: got in the back seat next to the baby. Calling
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: later described that everything seemed fine and normal at first.
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: She said that kept looking at her through the rear
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: view mirror, but she didn't think much of it because
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: his wife was literally sitting right next to him. Calling
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: figured that those looks could have been a bit much
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: if she had been alone in the car, but with
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: his wife and his infant daughter in the car as well,
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: the looks came across as a bit creepy but ultimately harmless.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: And that was when the Hookers pulled Hookers as their
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: last time.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I got that. I think I wasn't going to
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: make that joke.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I think people get that, But I'm just like I
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: still feel odd saying it for some reason. Okay, So,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: when the hookers pulled over to a gas station to
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: refill their tank, Colleen got the car and realized that
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: she had a decision to make. She went to the bathroom,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: where she said she had a sudden urge come over her,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: like an urge to run away and never look back.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: But when she thought about doing that, it also didn't
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: feel right. This was a young family, and calling was
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: an experienced hitchhiker. The urge to run away was probably
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: her just being a bit paranoid, maybe even left over
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: from her having to think about getting in a car
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: with five young men. So she pulled herself together and
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: got back in the car.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: Oh God, it's incredible what someone's intuition and that feeling.
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: Can do, and how often we don't.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: Listen to it, and how often it's right.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: I know, I've actually been trying to make a conscious
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: effort to listen to my gut feelings a little bit more.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: It's very hard because you kind of just convince yourself, oh,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: like it's nothing or that silly, but like you need
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: to kind of listen.
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: To that well, And a lot of times too, like
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: hindsight's twenty twenty. You don't even realize you have that
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: gut feeling in the moment a lot of the times. Yeah,
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: and then afterwards you kind of look back and you're like, fuck,
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: I knew that was going to happen. Yeah, I knew
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: I shouldn't have done that.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Like you almost have to tune in to like hear it, yeah,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: and to be able to listen.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: So so when she got back into the car, there
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: was a big wooden box on the seat between her
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: and the baby. Nobody really addressed it, and Colin sort
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: of looked at it and then decided it was none
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: of her business. The car pulled out of the gas station,
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: and then a little ways down the road, Carmen or
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: Cameron sorry asked if Colleen would be all right if
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: they pulled off the main road for a while because
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: there was a spot that they wanted to see just
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: up ahead. Colin agreed. After all, they were already doing
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: her a favor by taking her some of the way,
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: and she wasn't exactly in a position to tell them
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: what to do.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't exactly be bartering when you're catching a
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: free ride.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Exactly. I mean, yeah, you'd have to say yes basically.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: So Cameron took the car off the road and led
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: them to a secluded spot in the countryside. He then
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: got out and headed towards Colleen's door. This is where
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: shit goes.
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: So I knew it. I mean, we all saw this
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: part coming. But God, it's gut wrenching just knowing what's
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: going to happen.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, really is. He suddenly pulls out a knife and
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: orders Colleen to get out of the car. Colleen didn't
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: know what to do, and she didn't know why Janie
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: was letting Cameron do this, but she could tell that
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Cameron meant business and she didn't want to risk losing
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: her life. So she got hert of the car, and
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: then all hopes that Janice would help her went up
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: in smoke. Cameron and Janice bound Colleen's hands behind her back.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: And then the box that appeared next to her after
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: she had used the bathroom at the gas station, Well,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: it had a purpose, that's for sure. The box had
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: been specifically engineered. It clamped together with latches. When the
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: latches were open, the hole in the middle was wide
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: enough that Cameron could stuff Colleen's head through it, but
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: once on and the latches closed, there was no getting
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: it off. The inside of the box was lined with
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: thick carpet, cutting out the light, this sound, and most
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: of the air to the inside of the box, making
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: it very hard for calling to even breathe. Oh God,
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: she knew that her situation had just gone from bad to.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Worse, So this was clearly premeditated. I never realized this
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: was a premeditated case. I always thought it was circumstantial
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: and just happenstance, and they took advantage of the situation. Now, wow, Okay,
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: that's a whole new curve ball for me on this one.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, holy shit, it's And that's just so beyond terrifying.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: Like I couldn't even imagine, Oh what would be going
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: through your head and like having this box on you
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: and you're just like sitting there just like you fucked.
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And I'm hesitant to this to say this because
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: it's a very dark thing to say, So just bear
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: with me on this thought process. Okay, I'm almost happy
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: it was Colleen that they picked up, because we know
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: she survives, We know she was strong enough to get
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: through this, we know she escapes. I'm not certain that
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: everyone would be able to do that. Imagine if they
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: picked up someone who wasn't able to get through it,
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: who wasn't able to escape mm hmm.
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you'd have to be pretty strong world, Yeah,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: to get through this.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: Because they were going to pick someone up. It doesn't
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: matter who they were going to pick someone up.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, holy shit's yeah, that's right. I mean, yeah,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: not that things happen for a reason, and sometimes times
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: things happen for a reason, but in this sense, it's like,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: like she survived, so it's you can almost there's some
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: light at the end of the tunnel, but it's still
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, no one should have had to go.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, don't get me wrong. I'm not wishing
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: that upon anyone. Yeah, I'm just saying, at least they
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: picked someone who had the strength to get the well.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: To survive exactly.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: So.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: Colling was then stuffed back in the car and told
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: to be quiet. She felt the car start moving again,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: and she had no idea where the next destination would be.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: When the car finally stopped again, she was taken inside
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: a house, where Cameron took the box off her head,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: gagged her began taking off all her clothes and covered
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: her eyes with something. He then strung her up from
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: the ceiling and started whipping her. Holy shit, yeah, like
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: whipping her. Oh my gosh. Cameron kept at it, and
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: as Colleen started to scream, he warned her that if
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: she kept screaming, he'd cut her vocal cords. He said,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: I've done it before and I'll do it again. Holy fuck,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: and Colleen believed him.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I don't doubt it.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah. She tried her best to keep quiet, even though
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: the pain must have been excruciating.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: Oh, I would be screaming like a little girl. Yeah.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: And something I haven't mentioned yet. She was actually dangling
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: from the ceiling. He hung her so so high off
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: the ground her feet couldn't even touch.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: Are you serious?
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Oh my god. How does she not dislocate her shoulder?
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't whoa.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this fucking guy.
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: Like he's disgusting, like he's he's the worst.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: This is wait, this is fucking twisted.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: So she was in complete angony, to say the least,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: but she kept quiet, and she continued to keep quiet
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: even when Cameron took off her blindfold. And what he
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: did next is he had sex with Janice right below
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: her suspended body.
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: What the fuck?
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: That's literally like how her first moments in the house
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: played out.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: What the actual fuck.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know why I wrote this, but my
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: next next line is, like, what the actual fuck exactly what.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: You said, because that's a very reasonable reaction to something
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: like that. Yeah, holy wow, all right.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like I'm not I mean, people have their kink
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: or whatever, but for that to be like turning people
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: on is so disturbing. That's so disturbing to me.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: That's not an acceptable kink. No, I don't give a shit.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: If you want to reenact things with consenting parties, that
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: is totally difference. There was no consent there, Yeah, because
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: people do consent and safely tie and bangle each other
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: up and swing this and change that. Sure, do whatever
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: you want as long as everyone's safe and consenting.
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this, on the other hand, was not a safe,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: consenting situation.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: No. I do not consent to this fucking dude being alive. No,
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: holy fuck.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: So when they were done being complete savages, like really, yeah,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: that's an applicable word for sure, they took calling down,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: hog tied her, and stuffed her inside a box. She
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: had no way of knowing how long she'd been tied
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: up there and how long she would be, but whenever
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: she was let out, things became perfectly clear. She was
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: only ever out to be beaten, whipped, or electrocuted. She
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: was given a small amount of food and water and
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: forced to use a bedpen as a bathroom before it
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: would all start all over again. But what it would
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: take her a while to find out? Why does it
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: happened to her? And why a seemingly normal young family
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: could do something so horrible?
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: No kidding, Like, there's no.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Way she could have imagined because like, honestly, it was
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: like a young family with a baby. There's no way
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: that you would think this would be the outcome.
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: Well, there's other situations and other cases out there where
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: the similar sort of plot occurs where they, you know,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: young couple or have a baby in the back seat,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: pull this sort of shit, wasn't it. The Barbie and
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: Ken Killer kind of had a similar sort of like
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: they I don't think they had a kid, but they
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: pulled the young couple the nice people.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean they were like perfect couple. They never
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: looked like anyone that would be so evil.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So it's kind of the I don't know
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: what it's, the facade they put on. It's kind of
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: like the chameleon effects to get to make you comfortable
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: and drop your guard. I'm curious though, as to what
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: she finds out on why they start doing this. You ready, Yeah,
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: I don't think so. But I'm about to be as
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: ready as I will ever be, I think for this information.
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: So it had all been part of a deal between
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: Cameron and Janice. The husband and wife. Cameron was a
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: satist to say the least. Janis, being that she was
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: only sixteen years old when she first met or went
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: on a date with Cameron, was inexperienced in many ways.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: She'd borne the brunt of Cameron's desires all through the relationship.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Janice had been whipped and beaten because it turned Cameron on,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: but she knew that she also wanted things to be different.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Not long into their marriage, a deal was struck between them,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: making sure that Janice wouldn't have to face Cameron's darker
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: side again. Janice wanted to wanted a baby, and in return,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Cameron could have his own slave to torture.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: Holy fuck.
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: The only condition was that he wasn't allowed to have
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: penetrative sex with her. What you're just staring at me,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: just like shocked.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Hey, what the hole? So that's the that's the line
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: they draw, that's the deal.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Like, Yeah, you can have this person and you can
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: torment the fuck out of them, but you just can't
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: like have penetrative sex. Wow, and then I'm gonna have
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: a baby, and then I don't. I'm not gonna be
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: the brunt of this going forward.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: Maybe if you have a situation where in a relationship
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: someone has desires such as that, you probably seek some
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: counseling or figure out how to do it safely and conceptually.
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like she Honors should have just like left and
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: run for the hills.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: I mean she should have, for she was.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: Very young at the time that they got together, and.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, and I love and who knows how convincing
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: he was, and maybe she had some some things inside
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: her that made her want to stay because she was
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: similarly aligned. Who knows the situation, And I mean, yeah,
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: she probably should have turned tail and run, But that's
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: not going to stop the situation. He would have done
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: it to.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: Someone, Oh yeah, no, it would have played out probably
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: exactly the same.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it doesn't it doesn't do anything, and it's
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: not her fault by any means. Well, i mean it's
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: not like she was the one. It's not like she
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: was the one wanting to do those things. So her
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: leaving doesn't.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll talk, you know what I mean, we
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: will talk about it a bit at some point, because
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: there's very mixed reviews of of if she's like a
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: good person.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: Or well, I'm so she's involved in this, she's also
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: a piece of shit?
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Well yeah, because I mean he might be manipulative, but
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: there it went on for seven fucking years.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: She harbored a human being, she dangled her on a
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: ceiling and fucked her husband underneath her hanging body. She
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: is a piece of shit.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, she is. I'm like sweating this case is
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: making me sweat.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: I'm just saying, like, prior to the whole kidnapping Colleen thing,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: she would be the victim in this situation. So her
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: staying with him clearly he's going to be a manipulating
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: an individual. So he's got her wrapped around his finger. However,
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: now that she's involved going forward with Colleen, she is
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: now just as bad as him in my opinion if
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: that makes sense, Yes, because.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: She let it go on too long. Oh yeah, even
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: any of it really so so the hookers had actually
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: been out on the road that day actively looking for
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: a hitchhiker to take back to the home and lock
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: in the basement. Yeah, which is something you've learned. And
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: when Colleen had gotten into the car with them, she'd
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: given them just that. Months went by with Colleen only
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: being able to come out for short amounts of time
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: to eat occasionally use the bathroom. She did have her
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: bedpan and be beaten. At the seven month mark, Cameron
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: took her out, sat her down, and explained what was happening.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: He told her that he was registered with an international
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: company called the company a super greedive name, Oh my god,
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: and their business was all about slaves. Cameron had registered
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: calling as his slave. The only thing left to do
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: was to sign on the dotted line and everything would
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: be complete. The company already knew who Colleen was. They
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: already knew her, who her family was and where they lived.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: And if Collein refused to sign this contract, the company
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: would go and kill them. All bullshit, I know, I
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: feel like nowadays something like this wouldn't necessarily work because
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: people are more into true crime and this just is
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: like like so typical.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: Right it is? It is, And I'm in that sort
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: of situation. I mean, she's terrified.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: She I mean, she'd still be put in this position.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: But I mean, if someone was telling you about this contract,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: I think in the back of your head, you'd be like,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: this person's like literally insane.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but you're probably gonna sign it, though, I mean,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: what else do you have?
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: You have no other option?
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, however, I would probably if I were in her shoes,
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: I would probably sign the document, also knowing that my
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: signature on there means absolutely fucking nothing. I'm not giving
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: you the right to I'm not your slave, Like are
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: you fucking kidding me?
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: And what if you do? I could sign up for
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: the company through because this is in the seventies, in
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: a magazine pamphlet or something. Oh yeah, you know, you
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: sign up and register your slave today, Like what the fuck?
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: You get a free para sunglasses? Like are you kidding me? Dude?
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: What the fuck? It's like in some sort of Reddit
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: forum with twenty other greasy guys who she's just like them, idiot?
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: So she didn't have much of a choice in the matter.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Colleen did go ahead and sign the contract, agreeing to
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: become Cameron's slave. She was to call him master and
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: Janice ma'am, and was to do whatever it was that
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: the two of the mass of her and if she refused,
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: if she tried to run away, if she was bad,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: the company would hunt her down, nail her to across,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: and leave her out in the public as a warning
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: to other slaves that or sorry to other slaves, and
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: then they would also go about killing her family.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because that is totally I legal. You're going to
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: nail her to across for public appearance, yea, yeah, sure.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: So it was also at this moment that Colleen became
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: known to the household as Kay, So they basically stripped
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: her of her identity and further went about humiliating her.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: She was just referred to as Okay.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: That's very much akin to prisoner numbers sort of thing.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: And with the new set of rules, it didn't do
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: much to improve her condition. She still had to spend
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: most of her time in that box, sometimes around twenty
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: three hours a day.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Geez, this poor woman, And when.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: She was let out, she either had to do all
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: the cooking and the cleaning, or she was tortured. Colleen
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: later said, any time I was taken out of the box,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: I never knew what to expect. Fear of the unknown
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: was always with me as I was kept in the dark,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: both physically and mentally. And even if Colleen started to
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: expect something, Cameron kept coming up with new ways to
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: torture her. He made a new box to put over
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: her head to cut her off from the outside world,
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: and he also made a literal medieval torture rack where
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: he stretched her out and would punish for things like
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: not being grateful enough for the sandwich he brought down
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: to her.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: Holy fuck. Yeah, I can't wait for this guy to
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: get what's coming to him. And I can tell you
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: it's not enough.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: No, no, it's never gonna be enough. And at one point,
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: there's mixed reports here whether Janice actually allowed this or not,
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: but he began having penetrative sex with Colleen.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I saw that coming.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, if it wasn't if it was Janice, like
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: if I was Janis, I mean I would want nothing
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: to do with that nasty motherfucker.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, like, no way.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: So I don't know but I don't know if she
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: agreed or if he manipulated her to agree or or what.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: But now adding to the terrible mixture of pain and
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: punishment was rape, and poor Colleen never knew what was
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: coming for her whenever the box got opened.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Fuck, I can't imagine. Like that is beyond a nightmare.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: It honestly makes me feel unwell too, Like I want
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: to like bar.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: It makes my skin crawl.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Like it makes my stomach just turn because it's so disgusting.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: And it's it's beyond fathomable what sort of things human
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: beings are capable of when they get that sense of
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: power over another individual. We see it on a day
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: to day basis. We see it in kids and adults
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: the workplace, school bullying, right, Yeah, you see someone take
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: advantage of another person over and over again for the
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: little things and it just makes them feel better.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like he was probably feeling like he was like
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: king shit.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and he loved it and he fed on
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: it and that's disgusting it. But then people are always
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: sorry for their actions once they're caught.
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, once they're caught, it totally changes.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're never sorry for their actions. They're just sorry
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: they got caught exactly.
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: So Colleen's only instinct was to survive, to be a
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: good slave, and to make sure that she and her
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: family were safe. And she did whatever it was that
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: camera wanted her to do, like just incredible, but it
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: would eventually pay off for her. After she'd been living
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: with the family for about a year, the Hookers bought
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: their own place and moved out to a mobile home
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: where they had about an acre of land. Because of
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: Colleen's good behavior, Cameron granted her more freedoms and let
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: her out of the box to go on runs around
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: the neighborhood. But all the while, escape was never on
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: her mind. Colleen believed Cameron wholeheartily, and the last thing
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: she wanted to do was to send the company to
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: her family back home.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: She actually believed them, wow.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: So she'd do her jogs and come straight back to
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: the family's home. This new freedom would also come at
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: a cost. The house they'd been living at in before
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: had a basement, but their new mobile home didn't, so
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: Cameron went about making a new box for calling to
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: live in. This one was a coffin like wooden box
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: that would fit under his and Janice's bed, and that
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: was where Colleen had to spend most of her time,
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: and like I said before, sometimes it would be up
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: to twenty three hours a day.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: That's the box that I that I've read about in
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: spiracles and stuff.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not certain exactly what the other box looked
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: like from the other house, because some say that she
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily in like as tight of a confining box.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: But this, like literally I don't even know if it
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: would have been as big as like a coffin. Like
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: that's unbelievable.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: I'm literally speechless. Holy fuck. Okay, yeah, I do want
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: to go back to the fact that she did go
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: on these runs and she did come back.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So I was about to touch on this. The
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: runs at first, I think were like Cameron was kind
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: of forcing her to do the runs, like him controlling
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: her even more, but she kind of turned it into
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: something like that, and so he did later let her
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: go on her own. But yeah, she I mean, it's
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: gonna get even worse for what she went out and did,
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: but like, yeah, she she came back.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean things like Stockholm syndrome, for example,
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: those are very very real. You're a prisoner and you
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: become attached to the person who is imprisoning you. It's
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: it's very real. It's very true. It happens to people. Yeah,
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: it's just scary to think that he had this much
• 31:30
  Speaker 2: power over her when her freedom was right there.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: Well, and honestly, because she didn't know who was part
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: of the company, right, I think he described it like
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of people. He might even said that the
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: whole neighborhood was the fucking company.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, true.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: So when she wasn't allowed out longer, she was doing chores,
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: going for those runs. They would even make her look
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: after the children.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't whitch sur prize bizarre.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: And then she would also please Cameron, but she always
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: ended up back in that box. After living with the
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: family for two and a half years, Cameron began testing
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: the waters to see just how far he could push Colleen.
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Cameron allowed Colleen to make a call to her family,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: what he of course warned her about the dangers of
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: telling them too much. He told her that the company
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: had everyone's phone bugged and they would be listening to
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: her conversation.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: Which is a flat out lie, but she doesn't know that.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: But nonetheless, he let Colleen talk to her family. They'd
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: been worried sick, and had of course reported her as
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: missing when they found out she did never She never
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: showed up to her friend's birthday party. They feared the
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: worst that she had died or been killed, but they
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: were also scared that Colleen had fallen into some sort
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: of cult, so they were very relieved when that phone
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: call came through and they found out she was still alive.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: Colleen shared with them that she was all right and
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: living with a boyfriend, and that was about it. She
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: didn't tell them anything else, which proved to Cameron just
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: how much control he had over her.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: And he loved that, didn't he, which means these things
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: could start stretching farther and farther. Yep, holy fuck, oh god, sorry,
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: fuck this guy. I know.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: So. Then in nineteen eighty one, he took it one
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: step further and went about letting Colleen actually visit her family, like,
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: which is so fucked, It's so bizarre.
• 33:30
  Speaker 2: I feel so bad for this woman.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: He came along and told her family that he was
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: her boyfriend, that they were living together, and that everything
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: was fine. But the Stands weren't totally convinced. They were
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: still worried that Colleen ended up getting mixed up in
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: something not good, like a cult, and they felt if
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: they pushed her too much, she would just take off
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: and they'd never see her again. So, I mean, they
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: were kind of in this weird spot, and I could
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: only imagine how confusing it was for them, Like, you
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: wouldn't know what to do.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: My first instinct as those parents. And I mean, mind you,
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: this is nowadays, not in the seventies, so it could
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: be a little different. Will be a license plate in
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: the vehicle, but they're driving to come visit, and I'd
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: be taking that down and going to authorities.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: But what happens if she was in a cult or something,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: and then them going to authorities or something, they just
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: never see her ever again kind of thing because she
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: gets like mad or whatever, you know.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, the police could probably run a check on
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: the plate and at least like tell you where these
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: people are if they're known to authorities.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Or what, right, and they could just take a drive
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: and go check it out or something too.
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah who knows, But I mean that could also be
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: private information that the authorities wouldn't share, So yeah, who's
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: to say that My plan is, Oh, so great, it
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: could be just the shittiest plan out there too.
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: I know they were in a really tough position, so
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: Colleing once again didn't say anything to her family and
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: proved to Cameron just how much he could get away with.
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: But when they arrived back home or back to the
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Hooker's home, I should say, back in the box she went. Eventually, though,
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: he let Colleen get a part time job at a
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: motel Wow, of course, taking all her earned money yep,
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: but also knowing that she would always come back from
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: her shifts, and she did. Colleen was just grateful to
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: be outside of her box at this point. Anytime outside
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: of the box was a gift and she was just
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: grateful to have it. But Cameron also had other plans
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: he was. He went about telling Janie that he planned
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: on taking Colleen as a second.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Wife, and Janie didn't like this, did she.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: To which Janice didn't like this new plan at all.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: At this point, they now had two children, both daughters,
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: which that to me is just the worst that the
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: actually has two daughters. Yeah, and he's doing this to
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: someone's daughter, Like, are you fucking kidding?
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and his daughters. I can't imagine what they they
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: think nowadays with what they grew up with, like they
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: have to know, right, Like, oh, nowadays they would know,
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: but as kids then they it's probably like, oh, everyone's
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: house has a woman in a box.
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Well, no, they didn't know. They didn't even know that
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: this chick, Like they hid it from this person. Remember
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: she was out hardly at all, right, and so they
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: didn't realize she was living with them.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: The kids didn't. But wasn't she like babysitting the kids
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: and cooking them dinner and shit.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but they didn't realize that she was also like
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: being stored and living there and stuff. Like they hid
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: that from the kids. They just had no idea.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: So the kids just thought the nanny showed up today
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: sort of.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: Thing, kind of thing or I don't know where they
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: thought she was living, Like they hid it from the
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: neighbors at some points, like they had to reintroduce Calleen
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: to like the kids and the neighbors because they would
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: go on spurts where like she was locked up for
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: longer periods of time and then all of a sudden
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: they would give her more freedom and stuff.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: Jesus.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, no, the kids didn't know.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: This is fucking scrambling my brain. Yeah, oh my god.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: So and Janice back to this new development here. Janie
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: wasn't sure what would happen to her if their slave
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: then became Cameron's second wife. She wasn't about to risk
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: losing her standing. Janice first confided in her pasture that
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Cameron was living with multiple women women, and her pastor
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: told her that it was wrong taking this and running.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Janie then went to visit Colleen at her shift at
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: the motel, and she confessed that everything they'd ever told
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: her had been a lie and that the company wasn't
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: actually real.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Wow, okay, yeah, well, I mean we knew that wasn't real.
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: We that was obvious, I know, but I don't.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: I don't think it was obvious to Colleen.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: No, that was just about to say. It's not obvious
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: to her, but to us looking at this case right
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: now in this podcast, it's obvious the company wasn't real. Yeah,
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: but I did not expect it to be coming from
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: from uh, what's her name again, Janice? Janice. I did
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: not expect it's be coming from Janice. I expected the
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: freedoms and the time away to start getting calling more
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: and more comfortable where she would get to the point
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: that she might be contacting her family through a phone
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: at work or something.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: No, ultimately it was Janice who saved her.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Wow, she's still a piece of shit. She is. I'm sorry.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So who can say what went through Colling's mind
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: at that exact moment that everything she believed for the
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: last seven years was a lie. But she did believe
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Janice and acted fast to get the fuck out of there.
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: The next thing anyone knew, Colling was at the bus
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: stop with a ticket home in her hands. She almost
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: let it go, but she couldn't, and just before the
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: bus pulled away, she picked up the phone like a payphone,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: I think, and called Cameron. She told him that she
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: knew everything, and she later said that Cameron just broke
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: down into tears right because he's caught.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: He's sorry, I'm so sorry. Fuck off.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Colleen would make it back home and in her
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: family's arms, but she still didn't share much of what
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: she'd been through with them.
• 39:24
  Speaker 2: Oh rightfully.
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: So, Janice had asked her to stay quiet in order
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: to give her a chance to work on Cameron and
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: try to fix him. Because I think she was still
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: like I make this work like we have a family,
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: right what? But that all changed when two police officers
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: showed up at Colling's front door. Months after Colling had
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: made it home. Janice had gone into the police station
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: and confessed good for everything good, turning on Cameron and
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: saying that he had abducted and tortured and raped calling
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: for over seven years she was a part of it.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: He also said that Colleen hadn't been the first, and
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: that Cameron had done this to another woman just before Colleen.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: That woman was allegedly Marie Elizabeth Spanhig, who had gone
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: missing the year before Colleen had been kidnapped. Her body
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: was never found, and even though the police couldn't connect
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: her disappearance to Cameron, Colleen had a few interesting things
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: to say about it. When the police showed up at
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: her house, Colleen confirmed everything Janice had told them, and
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: when the police showed her a picture of Marie, Colleen
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: recognized her. She didn't know who she was, but she
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: knew Marie's face, and that was because Cameron had stuck
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: a picture of her right at the entrance of Colleen's box.
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Every time Colleen had gone in or out of the box,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: she looked at Marie's murray right in the eye, and
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: a part of her knew that she had gone through
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: the same thing Colleen had.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Jesus, isn't that brutal? That is? And there was so
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: much to unpack in what you just went over the
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: last few sentences there.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So just to kind of touch on that a
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: little bit more so, I believe Janice had told them
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: where the body was, because they had buried the body,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: but they were never able to find it. And some
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: reports did say that what had happened is so they
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: had captured this this woman and she was like screaming
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: so much that he went about cutting her vocal cords
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: so that she couldn't scream anymore. And like that's pretty
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: much it kind of cutting your throat, right, And so
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: she ended up dying. Wow, So she would have been
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: Colleen if she didn't die yeap.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: When Colleen first went home, I thought that she was
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: not going to be telling her parents about what had
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: happened to her strictly out of like and PTSD, not
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: because she was trying to protect these two, because.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Well Janie, she was always trying to protect her.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: Not because she's trying to protect Janice. I didn't even
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: think of that.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: It's amazing that she kept it quiet, because I feel
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: like i'd get home, I'd be like, fuck Janice, no shit,
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: and I would just be like telling all the authorities.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: But then again, that Stockholm syndrome right, because she could
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: have been connected to Janice in some sort of way
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: or developed something where she kind of felt for because
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: maybe she was the other female in the house. She
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: might be going through similar things at the hand of
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: this fucking asshole. So who knows. Yeah, but I am
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: super happy Janice eventually came forward with it that he's
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: such a joke. This guy's such a joke, especially that
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: he broke down crying in the phone.
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: I know. So because authorities weren't were unable to find
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: Marie's body, all of this wasn't enough to charge Camera
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: for her murder, but it wasn't enough to take him
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: to court for what he had done to Colleen.
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: Obviously.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: After Cameron was arrested, Janice had a change of heart
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: and went home to destroy as much evidence as she could,
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: But when it became clear that she would go down
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: with her husband, she changed her tune again. She struck
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: a deal for full immunity if she testified against her
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: husband in court with the combined testimonies of Colleen and
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Janice and the lucky find of a photo negative that
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: proved to be a photo of the contract Cameron had
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: Colleen signed all those years ago. Because like Janice destroyed everything,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Cameron was toast. He tried to convince the judge and
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: the jury that Colleen had been there willingly and they'd
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: also willingly had sex with each other, but no one
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: was convinced, Like, what a fucking species of slime hate?
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, oh it was consensual. Fuck Yeah.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: After the judge called Cameron the worst psychopath they'd ever seen,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: he was sentenced to one hundred and four years in prison,
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: not long enough. Originally not eligible see and then this
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: is the thing you have to talk about parole, Like
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: I sometimes have issues with parole because I feel like
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: some people, okay maybe, but like he should he should
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: not be eligible ever, no way, never, because okay, let
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: me just read this sentence. First. Originally not eligible for
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: parole until twenty twenty three, California's elderly Parole program moved
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: that date to twenty fifteen, but thankfully he was denied.
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: He will apparently be eligible once again in twenty thirty.
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: And so the problem with this is, like Colleen is
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: like she has so much unbelievable trauma to deal with
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: and then to also deal with the fact that he
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: might be getting out, like he needs to be in
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: there for his whole lifespan, so that Calling, for one,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: he's a terrible person, awful, disgusting person, but Calling should
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: never have to worry about him being on the streets again.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: How's this? How about for every here's my deal, what
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: I think can happen in court for every year that
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: you unlawfully hold an individual prisoner? Okay, so kidnapping, right, yeah,
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: you serve lawfully ten years in prison, no parole, That's
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: what I think. So I think he should be minimum
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: seventy seventy without parole and then charge for his crimes
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: on top. Yes, so I think it should be like
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: one hundred and four plus the seventy. So I think
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: he should be serving one hundred and seventy four years
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: minimum in prison. That's what I think.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, just like life. And when you say life,
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: like me life, Oh yeah about the chances of parole
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: like this, sometimes parole just gets me. But Janice wasn't punished.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: She changed her name and lives somewhere in California. To
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: no surprise, her and Colleen did not keep in touch. So,
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: you know, sometimes I wonder I've kind of wondered if
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: the kids even know.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: Can you say that again? I'm not sure if I
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: heard you correctly. What was Janie's sentencing?
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: Nothing, She wasn't punished.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: She was not punished. No, are you fucking kidding me.
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of people out there that think and
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: she might be a victim. I'm sure too many in
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: many areas she's a victim as well.
• 46:35
  Speaker 2: Yes, I agree, she is a victim. However, she became
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: involved for seven years. Yeah, for seven fucking years.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: For seven years, she knew exactly what he was doing, Yeah, for.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Human trafficking, enslaving and kidnapping and torturing and allowing the
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: rape of a human being.
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: And she was like, I mean, Colleen was doing the
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: chores and watching the kids and stuff, and she was
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: allowing that to go on.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, and then she probably spent her her money
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: that she was earning too at her job. And yeah, no, sure,
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: there's certain things where she's a victim. However, she's also
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: a piece of shit.
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. See, someone like her, I can kind of I
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: think she needs sentencing, but I can also understand her
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: potentially getting out and being like rehabilitated slightly. Yeah, but
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: she still needed to serve some time for those reasons.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: Put it this way, how's this for a parallel. In
• 47:30
  Speaker 2: my opinion, she is just as bad as someone cheating
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: in a marriage. Say, say someone goes out to a bar.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: They're partying with their buddies, right, his wife's at home,
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: and then a woman at the bar makes a move
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: on him. Well, he's the victim because the woman made
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: the move on him. But he did go back to
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: the hotel and he did sleep with her, and he
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: did cheating his wife. Is he the victim? No, he
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: willingly did these things.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: Did he make the move initially, No, that's not his fault.
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: But he did allow it to happen, and he did continue.
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, cheated because she kind of allowed all this to
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: happen until there was the whole Okay, well this lady
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: is going to become like equal to me.
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, until she was no longer queen Bee.
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so anyway, fuck them, moving on. Colleen has has
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: remained brave in the face of all her hardships. Today,
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: she sustains back and shoulder injuries in addition to PTSD,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: and has opened up about having difficulty holding down a
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: job or marriage. She is, however, a proud mother and
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: grandmother and went on to receive an accounting degree following
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: her escape on August tenth, nineteen eighty four. But she
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: and she also counsels other women who have suffered various
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: forms of abuse abuse if you want to check it out.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: Colleen wrote a book about her experience, and it's called
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: The Simple Gifts of Life. She said, I thoroughly enjoy
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: my freedom, always, always always. Life is good. You have
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: to learn to live in the now and not let
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: the past drag you back.
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: There's also another book. It's called Perfect Victim, The Story
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: of the Girl in the Box by the da that
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: prosecuted her capture. And I heard like amazing things. I
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: have not got a chance to read that yet, but
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: I do. It's on my list now. So but just
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: that last quote, I'm going.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: To read it again. Please do.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: Actually, yes, I thoroughly enjoy my freedom, always, always always
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: life today is good. You have to learn how to
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: live in the now and not let the past drag
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: you back.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Wow, spoken like a true badass of the day.
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: Hey, well, yeah, to have gone through what she went
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: through and to literally say that, because I mean, she
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: got through it. But then I think the next battle
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: is like to not let that destroy your life going forward,
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: because the trauma would be so brutal that it very
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: easily could.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: Well, she's forever got a weight on her shoulders now, forever,
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: and that's how she carries that weight, and clearly she's
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: going to be carrying it as best she can and
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: keeping that chin up, which is incredible.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's her story. It's unbelievable.
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, I'm I can't even remember the dude's name.
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to ask for it. He can fucking rot.
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: I hope he never gets out of prison. What a
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: piece of human trash.
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: If he ends up getting out of prison, there is
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: going to be in an uproar. There's no way that
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: he should ever get out of prison.
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: No, i'd I would riot in our house solo. I
• 50:34
  Speaker 2: will wreck every dish we have.
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah, No, that those actions are they're too bad. They're
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: too bad.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: That guy is a piece of shit. Yes, I swear
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: a lot in this episode.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got really eight. You were pretty heated over there.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: I had to avoid eye contact sometimes.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: Because that aggressive.
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: Well no, I'm just like he's getting really mad. I
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: gotta try to focus and read these freaking scent.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: You can want me to distract you, yes, gotcha. You
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: made it sound like I was gonna rage reach across
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: the table.
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: No, your anger was yeah, No, your anger would just
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: be distracting me from trying to get through this because
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: at some point, like just looking at you, it was
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: just like, oh you were just yeah, this this wrecked
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: you a little.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: I was pissed. I am pissed.
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: Yea.
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: This guy fucking sucks. Yeah, and I can't imagine having
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: to go through a colleen went through, and then to
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: believe what he was saying and then be told to
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: your face by one of your captors as well. We
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: were lying like holy funny.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: But question, do you think, well we'll finish it off
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: with this? Do you think their children no, because, like
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: I said, Janice went about like changing her name do
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: I I honestly feel like those kids probably will never know.
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: I think the oldest one has to know something, because
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: the oldest one would have been minimum eight.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Yeah, well, by.
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: Eight years old, you'd probably remember your mom running away
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: and being in court and never seeing your dad again,
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: So you know something's up, probably questioning who your dad is.
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: I know, I'm just researching this the whole time. I
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: was like so curious, as like, do those kids know?
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: I honestly hope they don't. This would ruin their whole
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: life too.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: Almost, did you look it up to see if you
• 52:28
  Speaker 2: could find anything on I didn't.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: Actually I should have just tried to google it. But
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: I think in a way I don't. I don't. I
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: almost don't want to know.
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: Well, well, we might do a little bit of research
• 52:39
  Speaker 2: or a little bit of digging and seeing if we
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: can find it out, and if we find it out,
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about it over on Patreon.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well maybe that book too, if anyone's read that book,
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: maybe it says something in there. I'm not sure.
• 52:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, if you guys know, let us know. If you
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: want to check out things like our Patreon where we
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: might figure it out and talk about it a little more,
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: you can head into hear this description of this podcast.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: We got Patreon, Instagram, Facebook, website, YouTube, you name it.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: It's all linked down below.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: We got it all.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you just want to chill here and
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: listen to the episodes, that's cool too. We appreciate that
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: just as well. M m, yeah, good job in this episode.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna be angry sleeping tonight.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you might have. We might have to make you
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: some like some camel milt tea or.
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: Something something something calming.
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe I have a hot bath.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe I'll light some candles and have a glass
• 53:27
  Speaker 2: of wine with a hot bath and some bubbles.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you want some cucumbers on your eyes?
• 53:31
  Speaker 2: Yes, please, there you go.
• 53:32
  Speaker 1: Okay, that's what we're gonna do right now.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, I'm gonna go put the EPs some
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: salts in the bath, and we're gonna pour some water here.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: All right. Well, until next time, stay wicked.