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Skip Tracer: The Case of the Missing Monthly · Roast the Post Podcast

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: All right, welcome to episode 35 of Roast the Post.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: And Jen, have I got a job ad for you.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: This is different.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: We have not roasted a job ad like this before.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a little bit excited, but you might recognize some of the language
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: in this job ad because we have roasted a job ad from this group of companies before,
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: but this one's different.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: So
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: interesting.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, a repeat offender.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's a repeat offender.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: This week we're tracking down a job that sounds like it belongs
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: in a detective novel.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: If detectives spent their days hunting down cars instead
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: of criminals, anyway.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Meet the Skip Tracer,
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: where your workspace is the internet.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Your shift is filled with Boolean searches and social media creeping,
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: and your mission, should you choose to accept it,
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: is to find vehicles and customers who've ghosted the bank.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: On their monthly payments.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Poor bank.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: You'll sprinkle the digital fingerprint powder on credit reports,
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: impound lists, and social media's finest humble brag posts,
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: all while maintaining a workable caseload of 50 to 100 files while you chase debt
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: or deadbeats from the comfort of your couch on work from home days.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is this really the stuff of Sherlock Holmes?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: Or just another pitch
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: in Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's reject pile.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Let's roast this post.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Ha
• 1:41
  ha!
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Skip Tracer is a name
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: that I would like to name my next pet.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Skip Tracer.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: So my
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: one of my one of my favourite TV shows is The Rookie.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like... it's an LA cop show,
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Nathan Fillion's in it, like, good old Canadian boy.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: and there's this ridiculous character in it named Skip Tracer Randy.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: And this dude, he's a Skip Tracer.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: But he's this goofy caricature of a German landed in
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hollywood, and it's the funniest thing ever.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I came across this job ad on Indeed or something,
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: and I was like, we should roast Skip Tracer Randy.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: no, wait.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: actually a fictional character,
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: but the job ad's still kind of cool.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: I know... he was in those Pitch Perfect movies as well.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: He is a really funny guy, that actor.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: I do...
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: no wonder that sounded familiar to me.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that The Rookie was one of your favourite shows.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do you watch it while you
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: eat mozzarella cheese?
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: I love Paul's taste.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love your taste in things.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's my favourite.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: I can safely say that I have ate mozzarella cheese while watching that show.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just I'm one of those people who like I put on I put on reruns
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: in the background when I'm doing
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: like housework and like fiddling around and stuff,
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: and they just like they're on in the background.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really pay much attention to them.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: The Rookie is definitely on that list.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, we all have shows like that.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: We all have shows... this is so off topic,
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: but I started getting into the show,
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: The Americans, and I'm like really into it.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bit older, but yeah,
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: really, really like that one too.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, way off topic, Skip Tracer,
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm ready.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: That was a great intro.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Skip tracer.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: At first I was
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: so.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: excited.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this sounds really cool.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then the more you read about the intro,
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, no, this is not,
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is not gonna be very cool, is it?
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: There is some stuff in here for sure.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, Skip Tracer.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: let's start off with the Roasty Profile as we do.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: So the job title is Skip Tracer,
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: of course.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: The report-to title is unknown.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: The company size is 51 to 200 people.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a subsidiary of another company.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: The industry is financial services.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: What do they do?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, financing and loans for vehicles.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: focusing primarily on the consumer market.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not really commercial vehicles that they're arranging financing for.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little two-door Honda Accord that you get from A to B in.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's like their bag.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Head office location for this is Toronto,
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: Ontario, Canada.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: The job location is the same:
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: The geographical operating area is Canada,
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: you guessed it.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the job type is permanent,
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: full-time with a hybrid work arrangement.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, how the job ad is structured,
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: as always, there are bullet points and there are sections.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: They begin off with about the job,
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: which has the sections who we are,
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: about the role, what we're looking for,
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: nice to have, and working conditions.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Then there's a small section at the very end that is what you can expect,
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: pay and process.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: So starting things off.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: There's
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: a whole bunch of brand big bank group of company Braggie stuff.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Who we are?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Redacted,
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: because we don't name the companies that these job ads are for,
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Jen and I don't name and shame.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what we're all about.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Redacted and its family of brands are united in delivering innovative,
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: accessible, and reliable financial solutions that enable Canadians
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: to reach their goals.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Over the years,
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: our brand family has grown.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: In 2024.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: redacted, redacted, and redacted became part of the redacted family of brands,
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_01: alongside redacted, redacted, and redacted.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: You can kind of get the picture.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Got it.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Together, the group of companies is the leading alternative lending bank in Canada.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: We have the collective experience and expertise to better serve
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: our customers and foster our partners' growth.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: With a diverse suite of products,
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: residential and commercial mortgages,
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: consumer deposits and GICs, credit cards,
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: retail and automobile financing,
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: personal loans and digital lending,
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: we offer financial solutions tailored to all Canadians,
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: including newcomers, small business owners,
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: smart investors, and
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: savvy consumers.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Backed by nearly a century of lending experience through
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: its legacy companies, Redacted and its brand family are proud to
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: be Canada's leading alternative lending bank.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Redacted, Redacted, and Redacted is a dynamic automobile finance brand committed
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: to enabling our dealer partners to sell more cars.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Since 2012, Redacted has serviced a wide network of automobile dealers
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: and tens of thousands of consumers from coast to coast.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: Come join Redacted as a skip tracer and be part of our talented
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: and growing team.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: That was a mouthful of brand-y stuff.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, that was
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: a lot.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: It just occurred to me,
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: I had a moment, this is a little bit embarrassing,
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: where I realized that like,
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: does Skip Tracer mean that you're tracing people who skipped payments?
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what that means?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hundred percent.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hundred percent.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: I had no
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: idea that that's what it meant.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: I can only hear Skip Tracer as like a name...
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: like Dick Tracy, or something like that.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's someone who traces skipped payments.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay, that's embarrassing,
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: You you
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: are... this is not a normal thing in Canada.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: it's not something
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: that we hear about very often.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: This role and and this industry is like it's very small in Canada.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: but yeah, a Skip Tracer is someone who tracks down people who
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: are behind on payments.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: this particular company,
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: you know, we're talking about car payments.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: but a skip tracer could also be employed to track down people who
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: are behind on their mortgage and they've kind of booted out
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: of town or like
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: really
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: anything, any loan or financial property that is behind due.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the person who shelled out the money wants their money.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Let's call in the skip tracer.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: What I find interesting about the US market is that there are a
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: lot of freelance skip tracers.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: There are people who work on contract,
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: they have their own business and they just like they do this.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's a thing.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Less
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: common in Canada.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of the time this role is directly employed
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: by financial companies, financial services companies.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: or by governments.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes people who are in this role will be employed
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: by the province or by a city.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: And they do essentially the same thing.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: There are also bailiffs that are kind of commonly talked
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: about.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: And like they talk about bailiffs a little bit later on,
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: so we won't touch on that too much more.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: but a bailiff is a similar job that's kind of employed by the state as it will,
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: whether a province or a city.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: it's giving like dog the bounty hunter energy.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And this is another off-topic,
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: but a long time ago, in the late nineties,
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: I went to beauty school and one of my beauty school classes...
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And of course I did... one of my beauty school classmates,
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: her boyfriend was like a credit person.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I would call if you were behind on your credit card payments and stuff.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And she would tell us,
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: stories about how he would like scream at the people on the phone,
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: like threaten them, tell them that like their family would be disappointed
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: in them and like all sorts of horrible tactics.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: So that's really, yeah, that's what I think about when I think about this type
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: of role.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: But like the thing is
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: people have to work, right?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not about whatever,
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: it's a certain disposition required to do a job like this,
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: which I'm sure we'll get into,
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: but that was just the Roasty Profile.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: So looking forward
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: to it.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: So we get into the job ad,
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: and the first section is about the role.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: As a skip tracer, you will use advanced online research techniques
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: and creative problem solving to locate vehicles and customers.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: You will, and then a bunch of bullet points,
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: conduct online investigations using advanced search techniques,
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: and it has some examples, on platforms like Canada 4-1-1,
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: credit bureau reports, and social media.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: You'll search multiple data sources,
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: service records, impound listings,
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: location history to trace vehicles effectively.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Apply creative and out-of-the-box methods to gather information beyond standard
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: searches.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Leverage social media and digital footprints to track leads
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: and build search strategies.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Maintain a working queue of 50 to 100 files,
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: ensuring efficient case handling.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Collaborate with internal teams.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: To share findings and support recovery efforts.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then it says, finally, assist with compliance testing or special projects
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: as needed.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this is like, it's interesting to me because they call
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: out social media a couple of times,
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And they call out... you're going to be like a detective a couple of times.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: They're really starting to paint
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: a picture of you're gonna go and track people down.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I picture somebody sitting
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: on their couch in a very dark room with a bag of cheesies beside them
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: or something being like, hmm, I wonder what this
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: person did on the beach the other day and why they were there instead
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: of working to pay their car loan.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: What's up with that?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: It has kind of a creeper
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: feel to it.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Legit.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: If it didn't have the negativity of,
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: you know, taking cars away from people,
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: this is right up my alley.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: I would do this in a heartbeat, a friend of mine and I took some kind
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: of like private investigator.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: quiz type thing.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And what killed it for me was that the amount... you just have
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: to like sit and wait for a long time and I can't do that.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I thought it was really interesting.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: I will say, I wonder what advanced online research techniques mean.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: You said... were there examples or did like,
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: do they go into that
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: at all?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, it just says you'll use advanced techniques basically to
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: to search people down, to track people down.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I would kinda wonder if there's something proprietary that they don't talk
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: about in the
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: job ad, but as a part of your training program.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe there's like data sets that they have access to that aren't really public
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: so they don't talk about them too much.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, interesting.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: And what stood out to me too was that creative out
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: of the box methods beyond the standard ones.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: What does that
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: mean?
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Are we talking stakeouts?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: Are we talking I just said I was watching the Americans.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I have these... do you get a briefcase with wigs and you
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: can go and like sexpot it up with these people?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm in, I'm all in, sign me up.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do it.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing that stood out to me was 50 to 100 files.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting the language they use because they try to lay it
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: up as though that's manageable,
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: They're like 50 to 100 files.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's a typical amount that's manageable,
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: but it doesn't sound like that's manageable.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds like a lot, but I don't know.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: That seems like a lot,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: but they're already trying to like sneak that language in there of a little...
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: psychological game there that that amount is a manageable and normal amount.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Could be, I don't know,
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: but I thought that was interesting that they had to like say that first.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kinda I'm kinda curious about that too.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: So if anybody at home who's listening is actually a Skip Tracer or they know
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: a skip tracer, send us
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: a DM, like find us.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: We kinda want to talk to you,
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: bring you on the show and learn about what a day in the life of
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: a skip tracer really is.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Cause for me,
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: fifty to a hundred files sounds like a lot too,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: because I think of these as cases,
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: like little projects.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: How do you keep fifty balls juggling in the air
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: at the same time?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like if you're part of a team and it's shared workload.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay,
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: maybe.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's just like your thing,
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: you've got fifty and those fifty are for you to solve,
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: it seems like... a lot.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Can
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_00: I ask you to go back... because that's a good point...
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: It seems like a
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: lot, but I thought they also said something about how maybe this isn't
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: a full-time job.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, was there not language that alluded to
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: it potentially being something that you could do on your days off?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: So they classify this as permanent full time,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: but you're right that the way that they talk about the job
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: is a... it does make it sound like it's a little bit flexible.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: we will get
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: into some stuff shortly that will shed more light on this,
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: but you're right that so far it does sound like it's not "be there at nine,
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: leave at five", in the office.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: It does not sound like that.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: the next section we get into... "what we're looking for."
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: And this is all just bullet points.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: They want one plus year of skip tracing experience or investigative research work,
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: strong knowledge of social media platforms,
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: open source investigative tools,
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: and creative search techniques.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Familiarity
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: with Boolean search operators and online data gathering methods,
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: ability to analyze credit bureau reports and synthesize information from multiple
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: sources, resourceful, curious,
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: and able to think beyond conventional methods,
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: and my absolute favourite... proficiency with Microsoft Office
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Suite and Outlook.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be able to use
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: no, no, because otherwise they couldn't do this job...
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: it's true.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: You need to be able to use a word processor and email.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: my, like everybody who wasn't born in the last 40 years can't do that.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: My god, they couldn't learn it either.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: mean, it's such a bizarre thing to ask for...
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: In fairness... like, in fairness...
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: I rag on this a lot.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: I rag on this a lot.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why do you have this in your job ad when A)
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: there are things that are ubiquitous at this point,
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: or B) there are things that can be learned very,
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: very quickly.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like these tools are designed
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: to be easily usable by people and easily learned.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: But in fairness, when we first started writing about technology stuff
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: in the nineties in job ads, that wasn't the case.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: This stuff was new.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't ubiquitous.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: and this is just an example of that legacy holdover,
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: We've been doing the
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: same d*mn thing for 40 years with these job ads.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the language stays the same when it's copy and paste.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: The requirements stay the same.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Copy and paste.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you don't need to do this stuff,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: but we do because we always have,
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: which is silly.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: We were just talking about this the other day at work
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: and about whether or not we want to hire people who can learn how to
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: do the thing and have the right attitude or who can already do
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: the thing and maybe not such a great attitude.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: know what I would prefer, but
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: it's hard to convince organizations otherwise because there is that obsession with
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: having people who can
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: hit the ground running, hit the ground running.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's all people want.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah,
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: short term gain, long term pain.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: The next section we have in here is "nice to have".
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: So it says experience in the auto finance or collections industry.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: so the person you talked about before who is on the phone yelling
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: and screaming about how your family will disown you and be disappointed in you.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: that's collections agencies for sure.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: when I was in
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: university, there was actually a call centre fairly close to where campus
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: was that that's what they did.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I knew a couple
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: of people too who... they worked there on the weekend.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Not
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: for more than like three months because they were just like,
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-mm.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: See ya later.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: it's soul-crushing.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's awful.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: I would imagine.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: The
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: other thing that they say is a nice to have is a background as a bailiff
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: or an investigator.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: And you know,
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'd heard of a bailiff before.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: So bailiffs, they're on TV shows and whatever,
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: you know, the judge says, bailiff,
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: take them away.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: And that's just a thing.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Night court, yeah.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: but I didn't know what bailiffs actually were supposed to do.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I looked it up and I did a little bit of reading.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_01: In Ontario, where I'm from, bailiffs conduct
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: Asset repossession, seizure, and evictions only under a court order.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it's usually commercial actions.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: There isn't a whole lot of stuff that bailiffs will do for,
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know, residential/consumer/private stuff.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like there are evictions in very,
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: very extreme cases that bailiffs get involved in,
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: but typically bailiffs are dealing with commercial stuff.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: and they're appointed by the provincial government.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a process for appointing bailiffs in Ontario.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just some rando that you pull in off the street and say,
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: hey, you're going to be a bailiff and here's a badge.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't work like that.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: there's some pretty important rules that they have
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: to follow.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: They cannot use force in the performance of their duties.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: So bailiffs in Ontario, they're agents of the state,
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, but they're not empowered to use force and they can't detain people.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not really police in any sense of the word as we would
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: think of it.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: They must identify themselves and provide proof of appointment.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: Before they take action.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: So they can't like break open the window of your car,
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: pop it open, like dog the bounty hunter or dog the repo dude,
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: get in, hot wire it in the driveway....
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Not a thing with bailiffs.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: and they also,
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: interestingly, can't be employed by or operate as a private sector collections
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: agent.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: And you can see where there would be a pretty potent conflict
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: of interest there, right?
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you've got an agent of the state,
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: someone appointed by the province,
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: who's also double dipping.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: And working as a collections agent in the private sector,
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: they could abuse their power.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: So that is like outright
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: not a thing.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's forbidden.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: So
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: bit of a primer on what bailiffs actually are.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting, interesting.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so they can't do private things
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: so they couldn't like set, they're not going to do the car thing.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: They're not going to moonlight as a skip tracer,
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: that's for sure.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, interesting.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: They also say nice to have post-secondary education in a related field
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: and excellent English and French communication skills.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's how they wrote it out.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: The next section is working conditions.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, can I just, sorry, can I just stop you on that one?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: Post-secondary education in a related field.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: What
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: would be the field related to this work?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Great question.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Great question.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean like
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: typing?
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: There are programs at university and college that would kind
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: of line up to this.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: There are private security programs
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: in community colleges that would probably be relevant.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: there are criminology programs...
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say criminology, maybe something in psychology
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: or something like that, but very interesting.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: those those are going to be relevant for sure.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't spell out
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: anything specifically though.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: So to me,
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: and to kind of your point,
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: where we're going with this,
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: it seems like casting a wide net without... not
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: really specifically knowing what you want,
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: just saying, maybe if you've got something,
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: make a case and we'll consider it.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like that.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: What I think is interesting too is one of the requirements was, like, social media,
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: because it is going to be very much a lot of stalking people's social media,
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I would imagine.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, really interesting.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: I another sidetrack story just to say that
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: at a company...
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: I worked at a really big organization a long time ago.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: and a manager, it was essentially one of those jobs where if you're in HR,
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: you're the HR hotline and people are just constantly phoning you with their
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: HR problems and it's no fun.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody,
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: a manager called once because... one of their employees had taken
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: a sick day but had posted something on their social media about a movie that they
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: saw that night.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And they wanted to know what kind of disciplinary action that they could take
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: on this employee.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like,
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: it...
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: What if they're sick and they still went to a movie?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: What if it's something to do with their mental health?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: What if, you know, they had to have like,
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, an ingrown toenail worked on,
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: they can still go to... like, what does it matter?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a, it is such a dangerous path to go down.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: But it also is like...
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, have you nothing better to do than to stalk your employees on social media?
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like the lack of trust was at that place specifically
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: was just absolutely mind blowing.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: One day I'd love to do an HR happy hour where all of us in the field
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: or even like manager happy hour share stories about like the awful moments that
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: we've experienced are the funniest stories because there's some really interesting
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: ones.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, all that is to say social media plays such a big
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: role and things like that now because people will be going on,
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: you know, posting on social media some of the things that they really maybe
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: shouldn't be, especially if they're not making payments on their car.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's pretty interesting.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if you are if you are like three payments behind on your luxury automobile
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: and you post a photo of you, like...
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: sprawled out on the hood in front of Dan's Tacos,
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: that's a sign that maybe you need to rethink what you're doing
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: on social media because that's gonna make it easier to find you.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: absolutely.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think like,
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the issue with... can managers or employers kind
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: of look at social media?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, where I am in British Columbia and Canada,
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: part of background checks for people if you're gonna hire someone is you
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: can do a social media check as well.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can check all of their social media,
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: get a third party company to check that.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: should they?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Do they?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's awful.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then that raises the question,
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: well, can they use that against the employee?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: And technically what you're putting out there is public,
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Unless you have a private account.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: My rule of thumb is that I never,
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't have social media anymore except for Substack and LinkedIn,
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: but I would never, if I was managing people,
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: I would never accept requests,
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_00: social media requests.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, it's just not.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not a good idea.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's better to,
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: in this case, ignorance is bliss.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: And that was that was the point of LinkedIn.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like way back
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: when, right?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Where you could do you could do professional networking,
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: and have a
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: a professional persona that was kind of public.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then your private persona was not that.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's all kind of blended together these days.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_01: People talk about their
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: babies and dogs and you know, they had a boo-boo or whatever on LinkedIn.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: They talk about that on LinkedIn.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: which
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Not necessarily the worst thing in the world,
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: but that that distinction where it was a professional space once
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: has completely eroded.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not that anymore.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: But it's
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: because you can kind of turn anything into a story about work.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can tie it all back into work.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: I did... there was a post that I saw of someone on LinkedIn who post...
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: why am I even talking about this?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: They post a picture of
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: like they're clothed, but they have like a bag of frozen peas in between their legs.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was a man, and his LinkedIn post was about a
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: ball reduction surgery that he had because his balls were too big and
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: it was causing him grief and he posted that on LinkedIn and
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's a choice.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: then tied it into like work.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Somehow, it was tied back into work.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's a choice and that is kind of what I'm saying.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: it... like what you were saying, LinkedIn was one thing and now it's just like,
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: well this relates to work.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is kind of,
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: I can tie this back into work and it is,
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I know like
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Dan, will send
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: you the link.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: this person chose to post about that publicly.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like they chose to share that.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: So really it's out there now.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's out there.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: And really
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: the outcome of that is that they will never,
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: ever, ever get a job in investment banking ever again because those guys
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: are gonna look at that post and be like,
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: We need people with big balls.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: You had yours made smaller, what's wrong with you?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: But it also goes back to this idea that I feel like
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: men can get away with that sh*t more than
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: women.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: Imagine if a woman posted like a picture the same picture
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: but talked about like her labia reduction surgery... like, are you kidding?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Oh there'd be an uproar for sure.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: And a woman would never...
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just and the comments were quite interesting too like obviously quite
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: supportive.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: This person was having a
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: vulnerable moment, but I don't think that
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: that vulnerability and like, ballsiness,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: if you will, translates across genders.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: I just don't think it does.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's it's... that's an encoded cultural thing too,
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Because in my brain when we were having that little conversation,
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: we were talking about like, smaller balls,
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: balls, balls, balls, balls, balls,
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: whatever, who cares?
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then the second the second you said labia,
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: in my brain, I was like, I'm gonna have to put a f*cking explicit label
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: on the show now.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's just... and I have this thought a lot,
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: like when I'll see a man, it's a hot day and the man will be walking
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: on the street without a shirt on.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just like, can you, can you imagine,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: can you imagine if I just did this?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like you just can't, it's just not the same,
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: but this has gone so
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: far off track.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it's all really
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: relevant to the role of skip tracer.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: As a matter of fact, as a matter of fact,
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_01: if either one of us ever gets behind on our car payments,
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: the skip tracer could just watch old episodes of Roast the Post and be like,
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm, how does this help me find them and the car?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: A person who wants to be a skip tracer is like...
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: I listened because I want... to be
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: a skip tracer and they're talking
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: about
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: To all the people to all the people who wanted to be skip tracers
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: and they're listening to this for educational purposes,
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: thank you for tolerating our ramble and we apologize.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Wrong show.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: Wrong show.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's get back into it.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Wow,
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, let's put... let's put the car back on the road.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: The so the job ad does go
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: on to have a little bit about working conditions.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: There are a couple of points here.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: the first one is, and this will tie back to what you were asking about earlier.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: The first point that they have is flexible shifts.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: So between 9 a.m. and 9 p.m. Eastern Standard Time,
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: Monday to Friday, and rotating Saturdays,
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: schedules are provided a month in advance.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: So this kind of ties into what you were saying before about.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of sounds casual, like you can
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: kind of do it in your spare time or whatever.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: The language was written like that,
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'd agree with for sure, but it's not completely that.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's more so that they'll give you your schedule a month in advance.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_01: And they'll say, You're gonna work a shift between nine and nine,
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: and you're gonna work like one Saturday a month or something like that.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like they say, rotating Saturday shifts.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: You'll get Sunday off, I hope,
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: but one Saturday a month or whatever is kind of what it is.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_01: There's a little subsection in here,
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: and this you may, this is the stuff that you might think,
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: this sounds familiar.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: What you'll love about working here.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Award-winning culture.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're proud to be recognized as a great place to work,
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: Canada, 2025, and one of Montreal's top employers,
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: 2025, by Canada's top 100 employers.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_01: Work-life balance.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy flexibility with our hybrid work model designed to support your lifestyle.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: Time to recharge, generous vacation based on your role,
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: statutory holidays, plus six wellness days to prioritize your well-being.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: Comprehensive benefits, robust health and dental coverage through redacted,
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: as well as virtual healthcare through redacted.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: Future ready savings, group retirement savings plans with up to 7% employer match.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Exclusive
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: Perks, discounts from top retailers via work perks,
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: plus location-based perks like gym memberships and Toronto Bike Share.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: On-site fitness, gym access at our London and Montreal offices.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: Continuous Growth: Education Assistance Program,
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: and Redacted for Training and Skill Development.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Family Support: Parental Leave Top-Up Program to help you during life's
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: big moments.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Community impact:
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: one paid volunteer day to give back to causes that matter to you.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: For more information on who we are as an employer,
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: click here.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's just like a web link.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the stuff.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you got some thoughts.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, my first thought is that if I had the one paid volunteer day off
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: a year at this company and my job was skip tracer for these car payments,
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: I would host like a charity car wash.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: how I would get them.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I would do.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm applying.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Not a bad idea.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: do recognize.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I do recognize some of these perks.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked about this before a different company.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: was some kind of like money lending type.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: situation and they were listing perks that they had,
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: but they weren't available for that location.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, what does... that's irrelevant.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you putting that?
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: We do say like,
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: if you've got some perks, name them.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I do appreciate that they list like the names of the companies that their
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: benefits are through.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's fantastic.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: I love that they name like the employee matching,
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: actually say how much it is.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: But if you are in Toronto,
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: do you actually care that they're a top employer in Montreal?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would be more like, well,
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: why aren't you in Toronto?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's just weird to me to be listing that kind
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: of stuff.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, specific location benefits and the job isn't in that area.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really get the point.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't understand why,
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: And the gym thing.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to use the company gym
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: in Toronto, you're hopping on a train that's gonna take four hours
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: to get to Montreal.
• 33:31
  Like,
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Why have you listed
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: that for a job in Toronto?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: It makes no sense.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, this and we... we can see this through some structural stuff
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: with this company.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we know that this
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: is a group of companies, and we've said redacted a lot in the episode,
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: but
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: for the benefit of the folks at home,
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: this is a group of companies in alt banking,
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: financial services.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: So there's one parent company that owns a whackload
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: of little companies.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like they went on an acquisition spree about five years
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: ago and bought up all of these companies to kind of build themselves
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: an umbrella of some sorts.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: like the global brand, umbrella brand,
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: if you will, is a bank.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then they have this specialized arm...
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: which is the company we're talking about.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: that is... auto financing, and then there are other little specialized arms too.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: I would suspect that all of the recruiting and all of the human resources policy
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: development and practice is through the parent company.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of the acquisitions,
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: like the subsidiaries, they just use their stuff because they've been told to,
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_01: even though it doesn't really fit that subsidiary's needs.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is kind of the goofy underbelly of corporate acquisitions
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: and trying to run them afterwards.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, I absolutely agree.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm interested too, because they say it's hybrid,
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: but then they talk about working from your couch.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I wonder, I wonder which is true,
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: because if you really want people to be creative in how they're doing this business,
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: it's not gonna be from the office.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I wonder if that's just leftover from a different job ad
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: that is a hybrid because you you do want to give people
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: the flexibility the nine-to-nine thing and I appreciate that like giving your
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: the schedule one month out I think that's great, but again, going back to well
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: if you want someone to be creative and think outside of the
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: box then maybe nine-to-nine isn't that schedule but maybe they're open
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: to people bringing their ideas, so... yeah.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: I kind of wonder why there's a nine to nine schedule.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because... so that's
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: telling us that this is a... that this is a team.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: There are a bunch of skip tracers working for this auto financing subsidiary.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: and of course there are, like there absolutely are.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: but if you've got a team of people,
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: why is it nine to nine?
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: because there's nothing in this job ad that is talking about
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: external communication or service.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: So there's nothing that says like,
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: hey,
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: customers are going to call you.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing that has suggested to us so far that this is a skip tracer that also
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: does collections.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_01: So why that nine to nine thing?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: I was wondering that.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that was my question too.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is this person just getting the info and then somebody else... like then they're
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: passing it on to collections?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Or is this person making the calls?
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because if they're making calls,
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: then I could see where they would say nine to nine because you want
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: to catch people unaware.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you want to catch them when they wouldn't even assume
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: that it would be, you know, a call about something like that,
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_00: Not during
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: business hours.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: But it doesn't say that does it?
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: It does say that they maybe have had experience in collections.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: it says flexible shifts nine to nine.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: It does ask for people who have experience in... as a skip tracer or
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: as a collections agent.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that I get like the skill sets are... they're gonna
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: be overlapping.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna be pretty transferable,
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: I would guess, anyway.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: but there's there's nothing up till now that
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: has said anything about contact with the outside world.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, like why... have a shift schedule at all, and why mandate a Saturday
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: at all?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like if this is just investigative
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: research.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Those are two different things too,
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like for me,
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm salivating at the job because I'm a snoopy b*tch.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like I
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_00: will look through your bathroom cabinets,
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: but I don't want to do the collections part.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to dig up the dirt.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, it would be very disappointing to go into the role only
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: to find out that you had to do.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: that part of it, but I don't know,
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: They don't say.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Another job I had years and years ago was working at a laser eye surgery place.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: when I applied for the role, nowhere in the job at or anything,
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: did they talk about sales?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Only to find out after I got the job that it
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_00: was like 100% a sales job.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the kind of thing that I'm like,
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: but that's not, you're not even assessing me on that.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: You're not even talking about it at any point.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm terrible at sales.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_00: you just hired me to do sales,
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: like big mistake for both of us.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: So just be transparent upfront.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like what is it that this job is going to be doing?
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's how you attract the people who are like,
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really good at that.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then they'll,
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: they can do it.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: But if you hire someone who maybe isn't great at collections,
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_00: but is a great skip tracer, but they still have to do collections,
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: it's
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: not going to work out very well.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: I really, the more that we talk about this,
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: the more that I wonder if that's actually what's going on.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: If they are going to require you to make the calls and
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: do some of the collections work and put that on your plate,
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: but they have not mentioned it at all in the job ad because they know that that's
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: going to deter some people.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: We think about the the kind of person who's going
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: to sit down and, you know, really go to town and be an internet sleuth,
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: I tracked down this...
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: two hundred million dollar Lambo from my couch.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then when it's like you have to pick up the phone and call them,
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't see that person who is that internet smart and whatnot being
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: the kind of person who's gonna call them twenty two times to try and get the money.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't make sense to me.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's interesting.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because again,
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: like, I haven't done collections before,
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: but in my imagination, the people who are sitting there all day long making those
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: calls, they have their list, right?
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: They're just given a list by someone and they have to go through
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: and make those calls.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't imagine that they're also doing that detective work
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: too, but I don't know.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: don't know.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: So they wrap up the job ad.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: Clarity is absolutely key, and I think we're missing some here so far.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: so they wrap up the job ad with a little section that is titled What
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: You Can Expect Pay and Process.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: So they do list a pay band.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get into that shortly.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: they say this posting is for an existing vacancy within our organization.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Artificial intelligence may be used in parts of the recruitment process.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: All candidates
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: considered for hire must successfully pass a criminal background check,
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: a credit check, and validation of their work experience to qualify for hire.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then they finish off with:
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: if what you read excites you, we'd like to hear from you.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Please submit your application and we'll contact you if you become selected
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: for first stages of the interview process.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's probably where they put the AI person in front of you and say,
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: hello.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Jamba Bot.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: I think that you would be great.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: Or something like that.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: Jack and Jill.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: Can you imagine?
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, that's unfortunate.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: they finish off with some of the standard issues stuff,
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: like there's a link to the company website,
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: there's a link to their LinkedIn,
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: and they say kind of interestingly,
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: they say, if you have a preferred language for communication,
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: please kindly inform us whether you prefer French or English on your application.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, cool.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: they said earlier that... they said earlier that they want people
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_01: who or it's a nice to have really,
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: they say
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent English and French communication skills.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: So that signals they want someone bilingual.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: and it makes sense that they're kind of doing the,
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, we'll interview you in French or an English thing,
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because this company is headquartered in Montreal,
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_01: but this subsidiary is in Toronto.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: So this is probably like a pretty bilingual company.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: and they do have a diversity and inclusion statement.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: I won't read the whole thing out,
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: but you can read it when I give you the job ad very shortly and tell
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: us what you think.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: about it.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: So that is the job ad in its entirety.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: Was there anything that stood out for you in those last few bullet points?
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they said
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: existing vacancy.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: We don't see that very often.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so nice to know that it's an existing vacancy or it's
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: a brand new position.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like those are all the little details that actually
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: can make a difference for someone just going into it with a little bit of knowledge.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: And also it arms the candidate with a few things that they can go into
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: to ask questions about, right?
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like if you say like, it's an existing vacancy or this is new position,
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: well, you can talk about that in your interview.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: You can ask them a little bit more questions.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: Why is this a vacancy?
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like all of those things that it just,
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: you are more informed.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: It makes you look like you are more interested.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's, yeah, it's just good for you.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate that.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: I love that they have a DEI statement.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: I love that they mentioned AI.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't necessarily love that it would be, maybe, part of how much it would
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: be a part of it, but the fact that they're disclosing it and you said they list
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: a salary.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: So they're doing, they're doing all of the right things.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: I will say, like if you've ever read a post of mine on Substack about reference
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: checks and how I don't care for them,
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: I also talk a little bit about background checks.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: I do think that it is very,
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_00: like over-policed communities,
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: the people from over-policed communities are more likely to have something flagged
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: on a background check because
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: that's the way it is.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not always a big fan.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not a fan of just like,
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: do it for everyone that you hire.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: But in a role like this and certain other roles,
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: it's expected.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not that offended by it.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: you should probably pass a background check for this if you're gonna
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: be lurking around spying on people,
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: if you're gonna be like on social media.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: This person is going to have
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: access to credit bureau reports for the people that they're trying to track down.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I tend to agree.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: You would want somebody trustworthy in this role,
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: lest they abuse that access to some pretty sensitive financial information.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not opposed to it.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: I just thought of something I was looking at my notes that I always take during
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: these episodes.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I did write down,
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: they mentioned parental leave top up,
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: which is interesting to me, because I wonder if it's true
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: for this role, or if it's a leftover of what they did where they said,
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: top Montreal employer, but you're working in Toronto,
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: so not for you.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: And like, the gym is a four hour bus ride or whatever.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder if
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Parental leave top up is true.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I wonder if the employer matching program like savings
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: or retirement matching program is true for this role too,
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: because in my head, this role is not salaried.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: And when roles aren't salaried,
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: you're less likely to receive top up and matching and all of those things.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: it was just a thought that occurred to me as we go
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: into salary guesses that I don't know if that's true for this role.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it is, I have no idea.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: They also say... generous vacation based on your
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: there's a couple things in there,
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: like generous vacation based on time of service and your position within
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: the organization.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: That very much to me,
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: like to your point, that feels like a copy and paste from the parent organization.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they don't
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: actually say what the vacation for this specific role is.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's just a central HR department that's providing like a whole bunch of
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: corporate approved stuff that needs to go on your job ads,
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: I can see why they wouldn't be able to say how much vacation time they're offering
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: for this role.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: But... that's not good because you read that and you're like,
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: you haven't told me how much vacation time I get to start.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: and in Ontario, it's very common practice for hourly paid positions,
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: for wage positions, to not be given vacation time specifically.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_01: But you get 4% vacation pay added to your paycheck.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can take an unpaid vacation,
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know, when you see fit as approved by your manager,
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it's supposed to balance out.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's a sh*tty system, in my opinion.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: but they don't talk about any of that in here,
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: and they have identified that it's a wage position.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm kind of curious about that.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that is the end of the job ad.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: we're going to go into a little intermission in a sec here.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: Jen's going to get to read through the job ad,
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: give it a skim through...
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: Before we go to intermission though, let's guess the salary.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: yeah.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so salary.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: This is an hourly job.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_01: There are not any specific
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: educational requirements.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: this is hybrid
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: in Toronto and it is shift work with Saturdays expected.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: Just as kind of a wrap up a little summary for some background on the wage.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, hourly.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we would think.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: Can you remind me, do you know off the top of your head because I am
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: a terrible HR person and I don't,
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: what is the minimum wage for Ontario,
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: do you know?
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: Seventeen sixty an hour is minimum wage in Ontario.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: did you already say that?
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I just wasn't listening.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_01: no, no I didn't.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: I neglected to say that.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, actually that's
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: last year.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_01: So no, that's this year.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: So it's seventeen sixty an hour right now.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_01: This October it'll be seventeen ninety five an
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so and I think they like they're asking for post-secondary they're asking
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: for like a year plus of experience.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: I would say that this is probably going to be like $25 an hour, Canadian, is my guess.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty close.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's pretty close.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: So the range that they listed out,
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_01: $23
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: an hour to $25.64.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you're on,
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: you're right there in the top end.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_01: I wish that I had like a party hat and streamers and whatnot,
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: because I think I can count on one... on one hand
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: the number of times that either
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: of us has guessed the salary correctly off the hopper.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: so for reference,
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: $25.64 an hour at the top end.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: if you're working a 40-hour week.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: That works out to about $53,000 a year,
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: Canadian.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: And in Toronto, average rents for a one-bedroom apartment
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: are $2,250 a month.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: So call that $27,000...
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: $28,000 a year for your rent.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_01: So if you take this job and you live alone,
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: you're gonna be spending about 50% of your earnings on a roof over your head.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: This is a job you take and you're also doing something else,
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: like 100% doing some gig work something,
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: absolutely, because it's,
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or you've got a couple of roommates.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: or you've got a couple of roommates,
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_00: because that ain't enough.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: not.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, we're gonna head into the intermission.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: Jen, I will send you the job ad.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_01: And for the rest of us, stay tuned.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: But Jen, to get into final thoughts and scoring,
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: you just read through the job ad.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: We score in two buckets.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: So we score the job ad itself out of 10.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's you know, what does the job ad look like?
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: how is it structured?
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_01: Did it communicate things well?
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_01: Then we also score the role design.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that's out of 10.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's... is this role sustainable?
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: Does it make sense?
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: Is there stuff in there that's super,
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: super goofy for the folks at home?
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's how we score these two buckets that we look at on the show.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start with the job ad.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: What'd you think about the job ad,
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: Jen?
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: What would you give it a score out of 10 and why?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I liked the job ad.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: It was okay.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: I actually gave it an eight out of 10 because I thought that it
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: was pretty well done.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's not...
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_00: we're not talking about, you know,
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: anything wildly intellectual here.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very straightforward job.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so I gave it an eight out of 10.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: It lost points because I think that the benefits are irrelevant to this role.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm highly suspect of that.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mention a report-to and that's just such an... they know
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: who this person reports to.
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_00: You can tell by the way It's written.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: This is a thing.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: This is a department that has been around for a long time
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: So they have that information just put it in there.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: This person has a manager
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: who is it, put it in there so that we can have just a little bit more insight
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: I will say, upon reading it,
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: I did think about when it says like bailiff experience or investigator or whatever
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: This might be a cool job for someone who's retired and wants to make some extra
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: income, except that it's full time.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I wonder
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: if there's flexibility there about whether or not it can be part-time
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: or like X amount of hours a month,
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: because I think that that would be a really cool gig for someone
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: to supplement their income.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, as as you mentioned that,
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if that's a misclassification on the job ad,
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: because it doesn't say anywhere in the body of the job ad that it's a full-time job,
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: but it talks about shift work.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it is very uncommon for shift work,
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_01: especially especially in jobs that are kind of low barrier to access,
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: to be full-time, must be full-time,
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: nothing other than full-time.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: and you have rotating Saturday shifts too,
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's very common for organizations.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: It does say full time though.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: In the Roasty profile it says full time,
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: so...
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: just I just pulled that from the from the job classification on indeed,
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: you know, at the very top where it says like full time,
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: blah, blah, blah, whatever.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like it might be misclassified.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought that was kind of interesting.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_00: One thing I will say in reading through to their DEI statement,
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: I did notice some language where they mentioned individuals who view themselves
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: as Aboriginals.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know if folks know this,
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: but I work for an Indigenous Canadian and Native American
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: led venture capital firm.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so that language is a little bit outdated.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: normally, and this is like Canadian specifically,
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_00: you could use language like indigenous or First Nations,
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Inuit and Metis.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like that would suffice and cover it.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the whole idea is that if you do know someone's heritage,
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: then you should address them as that because indigenous and Metis are
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: not the same thing, right?
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: And Inuit is not the same thing either.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: So if you know,
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: try to name it specifically.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't know,
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that "Aboriginal" is the way to go.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: so, point docked for that.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say, British Columbia,
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: the province where I live, is a little bit more Indigenous-focused,
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think, than maybe some of the Eastern provinces.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's like more education and there's just more,
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, awareness.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's, that wasn't like,
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: it's not the worst thing.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: At least they have a statement.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: I would just change
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: the wording and that's what I would recommend to them.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: 8 out of 10 for the job ad,
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: job design.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: I also gave it 8 out of 10.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think I docked points because it lacks clarity.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: Is this role gonna be actually doing collections?
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think so, but they're not naming it.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: So lack of clarity, is it sustainable?
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think it sounds quite flexible.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_00: Nine to nine, like I think it makes sense.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: Is this something somebody would want to do for the rest of their life?
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_00: So those were my ratings.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't too far from you when I rated them,
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: but the audience diverged
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: a little bit.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: So we
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: for the folks at home, audience scoring is relatively new for us.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: We started doing this a couple of episodes ago in our live studio audience that
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: you can join every week.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: if you want to,
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: you can go to https://roastthepost.show to see our schedule.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: The audience felt that this was rather poor.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: the average score
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_01: for the job ad was four and a half out of ten.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the average score for the role design was five out of ten.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: This was not very well picked up on by folks.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now for me, I voted a little bit lower than you,
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: but higher than the audience score.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: I gave this a seven for the job ad.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: I found the job ad like it was pretty well written.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: it communicated what it needed to communicate.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: I felt that the employer branding.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: where they talk about the group of companies and they humble bragged about like,
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: we're the best alt bank ever and we acquired all of these little companies.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: that was a little bit irrelevant to the role.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: Who cares?
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you're a skip tracer coming into this organization,
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: what does any of that mean to you?
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: Do you care about the culture even,
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: Spoiler... spoiler?
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: F*cking nothing.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: right?
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: any of this.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we've acquired all these little financial things
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: and now we're Canada's leading blah blah blah.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: You don't give a d*mn.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_01: I see why a centralized corporate communications
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: and HR department would want that in there because it's an approved statement.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yay for approved statements, but it makes
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: no difference in the recruitment process.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that kind of sucked.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: I docked them points for that,
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_01: even though the ad was relatively well written otherwise.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: I also didn't quite like in here how they communicated benefits
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: that weren't relevant to the role,
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: specific to you.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we talked about the gym thing,
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: like you got off on the train to get to the company gym and the corporate office.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: who's doing that?
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, nobody.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: Then why are you even talking about this?
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: You've got this Toronto office and you are talking about the gym
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: in London and Montreal.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't make me feel great.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: I want the company gym, right?
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: So stuff like that.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: Docked them some points for it.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_01: the role design, it was pretty good,
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: I thought...
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: However, there were enough structural questions that came up for me that
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: I clocked this one with a six and a half.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really like how they were talking about shift work,
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: but they also had in their like language around this is kind of casual,
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: it's hybrid.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: All of that was a little murky in the middle for me.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: They weren't very specific and clear about what that actually looked like.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: They did say shift work, they did say shifts between nine and nine,
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: Monday to Friday, and then
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: Rotating Saturdays.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_01: What does rotating Saturdays mean?
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: Does that mean every other Saturday?
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_01: Does that mean one Saturday a month?
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_01: Does that mean one Saturday a quarter?
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: It might have been easier to kind of put a bead on that and figure
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: all of that out if, as you mentioned,
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: there was a little bit more information about the reporting structure.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: Who do you report to?
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: And also what does the team look like?
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: If they'd said you're going to be a part of a team of 25 skip tracers.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: That gives someone who's looking to go for this job,
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: to apply for it, a whole lot of context.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to be able to say,
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: okay, so I'm working on a relatively large team and there's going to be coverage,
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: like I can take time off.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm sick,
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: no big deal.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_01: Someone can cover my shift.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I can trade shifts.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's all good.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's like three people on the team,
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_01: very different story.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: And there's also the whole thing where...
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: and I think that we're right about this.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there is collections call work attached to this job,
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: but they don't say it.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think that we're right.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like that because that is going to be an ugly,
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: nasty surprise in the job interview.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's going to turn away a lot of candidates who otherwise might have really
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_01: enjoyed this role and gone for it.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that just wastes everybody's time.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: And time is money, right capitalists?
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_01: So why are you wasting money on this by not saying that?
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't get it.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: So six and a half for me.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's that.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: You said something that made me think,
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: cause I know we're harping a lot on the fact that they said like a gym is a perk,
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: but the gym is like a four hour ride or whatever way.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: the reason why this is a big deal is because...
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think we, we complain about it,
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: but we're not really like naming,
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: yes, the fact that that would be inconvenient.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's not realistic, but when companies create salaries and salary bands for roles,
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_00: they're also taking into consideration things like perks.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if this company was like, here's what we're going to pay because you get a gym,
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_00: because we're a top employer, blah,
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_00: blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that doesn't mean anything to this role.
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully they're not taking those as two considerations of the salary
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: and saying like, this is part of,
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: yeah, this is part of the considerations of how much we'll pay for this role because
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: you get access to X, and Z. that's why it's so annoying because they're baking
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_00: that into what they consider to be part of the salary.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_00: I would rather they pay a little bit higher.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_00: and they don't have gym access because they don't have gym access.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of companies will use those perks as part of that decision
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: process when it comes to salary.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think just clarity
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: on why that can be so annoying.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_00: a bunch of things and it's also this thing,
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: which is a really big deal.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: There's also a bit of a... as it kinda comes to me now,
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_01: there's also a bit of a mismatch in the the wage band that they put
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: out there and when they said "nice to have: post-secondary education
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_01: in a related field."
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_01: if we're talking about... like, we talked about psychology
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: and criminology, for instance,
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: those are in Ontario and probably in BC too,
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: those are four-year degree programs.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: and some
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: of them will have a fifth-year
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_01: That is a work placement internship type program, or year, sort of thing.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: In Ontario,
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: and I would guess it's probably about the same in BC,
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: a four-year degree program costs you between CAD $40,000 and CAD $50,000
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_01: for your four-year program, like kind of including cheap and cheerful,
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: student living, lots of roommates,
• 1:00:23
  SPEAKER_01: lots of ramen noodles sort of stuff.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_01: If you have $50,000 in student loan debt...
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: Are you going to gravitate towards a job like this that
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: has pay set as it is in a city as expensive as Toronto is?
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe not.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe you
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: need to set your sites, your scoping a little bit differently for this role and say,
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: we don't care about a degree.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like maybe you need to hone in a little bit.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_01: If you really want post-secondary education in a related field,
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: maybe you need to say something like,
• 1:01:00
  SPEAKER_01: hey...
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: community college.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_01: these kind of programs and fields that you can study in community college,
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: you'd be a perfect fit.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because honestly,
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: what you'll learn relative to the job in a community college program,
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_01: pretty much the same.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's what you need.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_01: And community college in Ontario
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_01: is much, much cheaper.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: like your cost of tuition is twenty five hundred,
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: three grand a year sort of thing.
• 1:01:24
  SPEAKER_01: Way more affordable.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and it could be too,
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_00: if you're saying we need you to have degree in this,
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_00: because typically someone who's held this role at
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_00: our organization has moved on to grow in this capacity,
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like tie it back to the reason why a degree
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_00: is required so that it makes sense to the person that can see their career path.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: I would also like to see in job ads,
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: just like by the way,
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_00: that statement exactly.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: People who have held this role,
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_00: especially if it's entry level,
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_00: have typically moved on to blah,
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_00: blah, blah, blah, blah, within our company to like show that you do promote from
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_00: within, that you do train and support and mentor and all of those things,
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: but that doesn't pop up very often in job ads.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think we can safely say that this post is roasted.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's another one in the can.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: Hope you all join us next week.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hit up https://roastthepost.show for our schedule of live studio audiences,
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: and we will see you next time.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: Bye everyone, thank you.