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004 - Joey Bell · The Slump Monkeys Concrete Podcast

• paul: And welcome in to the Slump Monkeys Concrete Podcast on our way to being the world's number one concrete podcast. So happy to have you with us. I'm your host, Paul Finley, and we are presented by Command Alcon. Thank you so much to Command for being our very first title sponsor. It's been a wonderful start to the show. It is off like a rocket. We're going to the moon. And the folks at Command Alcon are helping make that possible. They're helping me the same way they've been helping the heavy building materials industry for the last 50 years. Please go visit them. Commandouton.com. Today is maybe the most important episode we've ever done. Maybe the most significant interview we've ever had in our concrete podcasting lives, whether it was the old show. Or the news show, this one this one's different. You know, we have a a goal here on the show to be four things smart, original, funny, and authentic. We think if we can provide those four things, then we'll be able to provide a show that the audience can resonate with and we can grow along together. Today's show it's gonna be a little bit light on the funny, but super heavy on the authentic. our our guest today is Joey Bell. Joey was my co-host on the previous podcast. He's my former coworker. I've known the guy literally 20 years. And he texted me saying he wanted to come on the show. And I was like, Yeah, man, actually it's it's perfect. Cause I had to rearrange some of our interviews. And this is actually a perfect time if you want to come on. And I was like, What do you want to, what do you want to talk about? thinking that we were gonna cut it up just like the old days. And he said, Yeah, I really want to talk about. mental health in the construction space. He's like, I don't think we think about it enough and are focused on it enough. And I I it caught me off guard. I was like, wow, really? That's what you want to talk about. Okay. Well, I'd love, you know, let's dive into it. And he sent me some materials and stuff to review before the show. And then we got into the a discussion portion together about why this is so important. and why it hits home with him. And as much as I love the current events section of this program, this discussion with Joey is so important that I I'd really don't even want to delay jumping into this. And you know I love the current events portion of the show. In fact, I was I was thinking all weekend about exactly what I was gonna say during the current events of this show. I I had a buddy of mine, I hope he's listening because he'll know this is about him, sent me an absolutely ridiculous direct message about how the economy was gonna implode because of whatever AI bubble he sees. And yeah, we've talked way too much about AI on here anyway. So you're gonna get a break from that. But I wasn't going to make it about AI. I was going to make it about the economy and why we're seeing some things that sometimes don't always make sense, you know, on a surface level. And I was gonna tie it all back to these MA deals that we're seeing in the concrete space right now, you know, especially that big Arcosa deal that just went down. And I wanted to dig into that Arcosa deal, what makes it valuable, makes it a good buy, a bad buy, what I would have been looking at if I was structuring that. And how I think about it. And then at the same time, I was gonna get to absolutely roast my friend's perspective on the economy and valuation of businesses. And what better place to argue with someone than on a podcast where they don't get to talk back and I get to have all the support and I get to sound like the smart one. So I was super excited about that. but then when we had this this recorded this interview, I I just said, you know what? We need to just save the economic talk and the and A deals and how we're gonna how we should be looking at these you know, business acquisitions in the concrete space, these consolidations. I I'm I'm gonna table that to another show because this interview is is that important. I want to thank our sponsors, not just our title sponsor, Command Alcon, but also Rocket Start. please Take the time to consider seeing what Manny Tejano's doing at Rocket Start. You can visit their website at gorocketstart.com. They're doing everything in their power to up level the culture in your business. They're focused on driver reward and recognition, which then leads to retainment. they have a phenomenal platform that a lot that facilitates that recognition and reward. It's absolutely phenomenal. Love Manny. Love what he's doing. You can see all of that at go rocket start.com. And without any further hesitation, I want to get directly into this interview. I think it may be the most important conversation had in the concrete space in 2026. So please welcome our guest, Joey Bell. And welcome in to the interview portion of the Slump Monkeys concrete podcast. So excited today to have our old friend, Joey Bell from Active Minerals and the Add 10 Gallons concrete podcast. Joey, thanks for coming on. Joey Bell: Thanks for having me. Man, I'm the last of the Mohicans over here at Active Minerals, out here on the island by myself. paul: Well, that's true. So we all joined like back in the 2012, 2013, 2014 days, which was that dude, think about that. That was a long time ago. We were just young pups. Young pups back then didn't know what we didn't know. Charging forward, preaching the gospel of, of Axiogel, which was still a phenomenal product. And there you are still holding it together. Joey Bell: Thirteen years I've been here. Mm-hmm. Yep. We still hanging in there, man. It's I kinda feel like the I see it online all the time. I'm like that that character of a show and like the thirteenth season that's been around since the first season or whatever. Everybody else is gone. Like a walking dead or something like that. But yeah, we still here, we're still plugging along. we're doing all right. Could always do better, could be worse. but we're doing good. We're kind of a expanding into or I'm myself I'm expanding into like other markets too besides just concrete, trying to learn more about other stuff that AcroGill goes in. so learning a lot and still loving it. paul: That's awesome. Yeah, it's funny you said about the TV show. had family in last week. They like, you know, they watch a lot of TV and they were talking about the shows that they like. yeah, they like We Love Criminal Minds. I was like, that show's still on. They're like, well, they did kind like a reboot type of thing of it. But it's like almost it's got like some of the same original characters is set in the same place. It's all the same stuff. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. paul: And it reminded me of that meme where it's like, Oh man, there's only three people left from the original show. Yeah. It's hard to afford. Joey Bell: Mhm. Yeah. No, it's good though. I mean I'm I'm always happy to see, you know, folks do better and, you know, make the right choices for their family and just advance. So I I was sad to see, you know, you and Josh leave, but I understood like, hey, I mean, when the opportunity a arises to do something better for your family, you do it. No, I mean there's no question about that. paul: Well, I appreciate that. don't think it was easy for either one of us to make the decision when we made our decisions. You know, it's funny too, because the company now it's on my humor. Huber's a completely different beast than what Active Minerals was, especially like the days when we joined. And back then, I freaking loved AMI in those days. Joey Bell: Yeah. Mm-hmm. paul: because it was so much energy and everybody was working really hard. But then you'd come in like every other week and you'd get the email like all the system passwords have been reset. Because somebody got fired and you know, you'd always tell us like, hey boys, you got to have your head on a swivel. Joey Bell: Yeah. Mm-hmm. That was right, man. Yeah. You like y it was like the public execution, man. L they'd send that email out. It was like, if this person is no longer here, they're not allowed on the property. You know, everything that you access has been reset and you have to spend half a day redoing all that mess. Yeah. It was it was wild, man. It kept you on your toes. paul: It was wild, we liked it because it felt like meritocracy. It felt like, hey, if you're out there kicking butt and taking names, then you were getting promoted. And if you weren't doing any of that, then they're like, we don't have time for this. Like you're have to go find something else to do. Joey Bell: Mhm. Yeah. Yep. So I'm still here, so I guess I'm still doing something. paul: doing something. I remember it was like 20 probably 2013. And one of those emails came out and I did it. They stopped saying like who they were for. Like first they tell you who it was. Then they just made it generic because like everything's reset. I called the person that got let go. didn't know they got let go. were just in my office like three days ago down in the lab. I called them about something and they didn't answer, left a voicemail and then Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. paul: freaking head of IT in the company called me and he's like, what were you doing calling that person? I'm like, what, what, I don't know. Why are you monitoring my phone calls? Like, what are we doing? Like he was in my office. I was looking for a sample. And he was like, looking for a sample, huh? I was like, yeah, I have this project. gonna have to get it. I was like, do you know where the sample is? It's like. Joey Bell: Well I got you on here. paul: Yeah, I was being completely earnest. I wasn't being a jerk. I needed the sample. He's like, no, he got fired. Like you didn't know like blah, blah, blah. Jesus Christ. Now he thought maybe I was implicated in some way. I had no idea what this guy was talking about. Thank God he believed me on the phone because I mean, it was true, but just because it's true doesn't mean somebody believes you. Coming on here, you know, also want to say thank you to your face. Joey Bell: That's right. paul: the ad 10 show did so well that when I was able to come start this one, you know, it's been really nice to see a lot of that audience already start to trickle in, you know, show by show, it gets bigger and bigger. The credibility that we have at last show allowed this show to get some sponsorships that just, you know, I'm not buying a second home with those sponsorships, but it did allow me to buy this microphone. You know, so, you know. It's nice to be able to do this kind of thing. So I appreciate all the work that you did to contribute to allow me to go on and carry the torch here with Slum Mookies. Joey Bell: No, absolutely. That was a blast. You know, thank you as well for joining on that journey. It I still get asked about it. you know, a couple of folks that we all know, you know, that especially after I don't know, like first quarter or something like that of the year, they were like, What's that what happened to the podcast? And I was like, Well, I don't want to do it by myself And so Paul's Paul's kicking off his own thing. So, you know, I always, you know, send some I always send folks your way, if they wanna continue that ad ten, you know, vibe that we had going on. paul: Yeah. Yeah, that's cool, man. Like I know I showed you behind the scenes. I showed you some of the numbers of like reviews on the post, which it doesn't even make sense really. Like, cause you, look at like how many people are following and subscribed and on the different platforms and you're like, how in the world are we getting all these views? This is crazy. So I need everybody, if you're listening to this, make sure you're subscribed. I think we have a lot of people that are listening. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. paul: I think we might have, we legitimately probably have 10 times the amount of people listening that are subscribed to a single episode. And then there's like a hundred thousand X that, that are seeing some of these clips. So, guys, if you're listening right now, please, please, please make sure that you're subscribed. And while you're there, if you want to give a rating or review five stars for me, five stars for Joey, I wouldn't be upset about it. It costs you nothing. does everything. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Wow. paul: or the show. So people might be wondering, why do we have Joey on here? Is it because we just wanted to rehash old times, laugh about watching other people get fired? Is that what we were doing? I'm not sure. And no, it's none of that. Joey actually has a subject matter that's kind of near and dear to his heart. He mentioned it in the past, but we never really found the right time to talk about it on Ad 10 and thought that this might be a good time to bring the subject up, we're talking about mental health and the construction industry. Joey, why don't you lead us into the conversation with what you're seeing, what your thesis is on the situation and you just take it, you roll with it and then tell me what you're seeing and tell the audience what you're seeing and we'll come in from there. Joey Bell: Yeah, you know, I can speak on a lot of this personally. one, I've been, you know, as y'all all know, been within the c construction realm for fif yeah, fifteen years now, since twenty eleven. and we all joke about the cast of characters and everything else that we you know that we see daily on job sites and all the shenanigans and the go-ins on and the crazy everything that goes on within the construction industry. And every now and then we talk about safety, you know, like physical safety, like if you fall, if you get electrocuted, something hits you, trench falls in on you, whatever. but it's never been brought up to my knowledge, like all of the hazards that we don't see. And I came across this data that we're talk we're gonna talk about today. Paul's right. Yeah, came across it like last year or something like that. It was like men's men's mental health awareness month or something. One, you know, one of those months. And I saw something on LinkedIn that showed the the suicide rates for construction workers. And it was mind blowing. And then, you know, you got to digging around a little deeper, like, and just the mental health problems that occur in our industry that nobody talks about. And it really hits home for me because I've suffered from depression and ADHD for several years now. And if you leave that stuff unchecked, like it won't just, you know, it won't just stay at work. It'll bleed into your marriage if you're married. It'll bleed into like literally everything going on in your life. Now my depression wasn't the thankfully it wasn't the I want to harm myself and others' depression. It was just the depression of like I didn't get excited about anything. Like my emotional connection just wasn't there really with anybody. And so that would ble you know, that was a a big thing at work. Like it was really hard to get passionate about stuff. Like we've harped on it I don't know how many years now, but we love ActGel. I love my job. But more often than not, it was like Man, I just couldn't I couldn't get the motivation, you know, to do some things. And then when that bleeds into your personal life, and oddly enough, it's it is kind of funny to talk about, but I knew something is I like I said, I've been I've had depression for many years, but it like took another step, I guess, this spring. You know, my my son had a second heart surgery and so it was just a lot of strain on, you know, my wife and our daughter and our family. And I know I told and I told my my psychiatrist this. I told her I met with her at like the end of June and I told her I was like, I knew something was up when turkey season ended and I wasn't that upset about it. Like that was I d as funny as funny as it as it is to talk about, that was like a serious thing for me because what hobbies do I have, Paul? paul: Thank you. Yeah, you turkey hunt, you watch college football and then you had a podcast, but everybody abandoned you on that too, I guess. Joey Bell: Yeah. Yeah. So it when that when that part when the excitement for that kind of stuff remo was removed from my life, it was like, okay, something something's gotta change here. And you know, it it would get it got to a point within like, you know, my marriage, you know, communication is a huge thing as everybody knows. And so this, you know, this isn't something new. It's just something that we haven't talked about yet. And we probably should normalize talking about the mental health of everybody. You know, it's one thing I've quickly learned is it's it's perfectly fine to just get it off your chest and talk about it. Now, five years ago, if you talk if you asked me, Hey, you're gonna go on a podcast, talk about mental health and depression and everything else, I've probably laughed you out the door. But the fact of the matter is you've gotta be comfortable with this because I would say nine times out of ten, somebody else is in the same boat or a similar boat. And so you just gotta get comfortable with it. Don't be afraid to talk about it. And it's I know the the industry that we're in, you know, you and I are men, grew up, you know, in the South and the there was always a a stigma about, you know, emotion, showing emotion. And like there never was paul: Mm-hmm. Joey Bell: talk about mental health from my dad or any other man or male in in my life. And it was, you know, it's it was a thing of pride and you're a man, you're just responsible for providing with your family. and all these other things. And then when you get into construction, all these other factors just kind of weigh on you. Not only, you know, not only just the hard work, but just paul: Never. Not once. Not even once. Joey Bell: You know, you're not supposed to complain. You're working long hours. just get it done. I mean, just saddle up and get it done. And it's there's a lot of battles that are going on in people's minds. And I kinda wanna get just dive right into the data if I can. paul: Okay, well before you get started diving into everything, I had no idea that you suffering from any of this. Joey Bell: Yeah, it's, Like, a lot of people don't want to talk about it. Me included. Like, I was ashamed of it for years. Thought it would just get written off as being lazy. Or... whatever. You know, anything else. scared to bring it up with my wife. She might have thought I was a head case. I don't know what else. I mean... And also, I didn't know how to communicate that. That was a big thing, like, in our marriage. I didn't know how to communicate... how I was feeling because I don't wanna blame my upbringing. I don't wanna blame our past for anything that we're currently doing. But I've never done that before. I've never talked about my feelings. I always thought it was dumb. Like it's not feelings aren't really real. You can't hold them in your hand. can't do anything with them. So I would write them off. But I get... get to talking with doctors and you finally tell somebody like what's going on. Like this is what I'm feeling. And you just try your best to explain it, even though I just said like you can't really explain it. You try your best. And. paul: Well, hold on, because I don't know if people like truly understand like we're friends. Like you and I have known each other for 20, literally 20 years. 20 years, it'll be 20 years here in like three months from now. And we lived together for at least three of those years. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. paul: And then we lived near each other, like our family's vacation together. Like we are friends. So if you didn't feel comfortable bringing it up to me, then I can't imagine you would have felt comfortable bringing it up to anybody. Yeah, especially, and you know my history with mental health, not my own, but dealing with someone else's and... Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. paul: When you said you didn't know how to talk about it, I wanted to ask, like, were you able to even recognize what it was? Because that was the problem I had with dealing with someone I didn't even recognize for the first year that I was dealing with mental illness. I wasn't sure what I was even seeing or interacting with. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Like it wasn't like way, I mean years ago when I first got officially, you know, got the paperwork that said I got depression. Like I thought it was just like a little phase in my life and it would like come and go. And you know this with work, you know, you would, you'd be on a run with work, everything be going good. You're busy. I mean, you're firing on all cylinders and then yeah, I guess you get time like. get time to your thoughts, you get a little bit more time to yourself and you're trying to make things happen and you get in a, you you run into a dry spell and, and you know, you would go through these cycles and eventually it wasn't a cycle. Like it was kind of just flat. paul: and Joey Bell: Like when I was supposed to be feeling good, those high points, it's like, awesome, we got all this stuff going on. It's like, okay, whatever. I guess I would already think about after that. And I joke about being pessimistic. I'm still pessimistic, I guess, because I still like being a realist too. But that was part of it, just assuming the worst, I guess. And I just couldn't get excited. about things. And so that went on for years. And like I said, this past spring, you know, when I didn't, I went turkey hunting and I joke about, you know, how much it means to me, but it's literally just like we said, it's literally my only hobby. I don't do anything. paul: Look at the wall. If anybody's watching this on YouTube, like look at the wall behind him. If you don't believe the man loves turkey hunting, you know. Joey Bell: Yeah. And that hobby is three months out of the year, March, April, and May, if I wanted to do it everywhere. And so when turkey season rolled around and it was just like, yeah, I'm going to go. But I got about as excited about it as I did work, you know, which wasn't really a whole lot at the time. And like I said, I told paul: yeah. Joey Bell: psychiatrist told the doctor, I was like, look, this is what's happened. This is kind of how I'm feeling. I think, you know, something's up. And she was like, it, just sounds like you've got like an escalated version of depression. I mean, I've had it for nearly a decade now, I guess, officially, but like it wasn't as bad as it, as it, as the past few months or whatever. And so what I'm getting at is, you go talk to somebody. I mean, you ain't got to go to the doctor, but just call me. I mean, if you want to call me, if you want to message me on Instagram or something like that, I'll talk to you. I'm very, I'm very open about it now because so many people go through this exact same thing. And so when I saw this data having to do with construction, like it all made sense. Like I... I feel like I relate to a lot of these people in the industry, you know, besides mental health stuff, because blue collar kid, you know, I'm not afraid of hard work. I love being around the plants and, and messing around with the drivers and talking smack and all that good stuff. But the fact that so many of these guys go, I mean, they go home every day. They go home with all their fingers and toes. They go home without any injuries. Some of them don't come back to work. because they took their own life that night. And so that like really hit. And you always hear about it too. You're like, I never would have thought, you know, that guy, I never would thought he would have done something like that. And the fact is that, yeah, I mean, they do it literally every day. And so I'll get into a little bit of the data here. Construction has the highest overdose death rate and the second highest suicide rate. among all the US industries. The only industry that is higher than construction and suicide is mining. paul: great. Both the things were in. Joey Bell: Exactly, you know? Exactly. And so it goes on to say, you know, even though construction workers are only seven and a half percent of the workforce, they account for over 23 % of overdose deaths and nearly 18 % of suicides. So it's a big deal. And we need to talk about it. It goes on to say, let's see, in 2021, over 15 % of construction workers reported anxiety or depression. So that's just the folks that were willing to write down that they have that. It says over 30 % felt anxious at least once a month in 2021, which was a 41 % increase since 2011, which that makes sense. 2021, you think about what was going on and... in the world in 2021 versus 10 years before. So that was not surprising at all. Let's see, it goes on to say, and it says 84, over 84, 84 % of construction workers with anxiety or depression did not see a mental health professional in the past 12 months. So. paul: Yeah, I totally believe. Yeah, that makes sense. 90 % of people aren't talking to professional about it. Yeah. For sure. Joey Bell: Yeah. And only 4.8 % of all construction workers reported seeing a mental health professional in the past year. There were some that say cost is a barrier. It kind of delayed them or they just didn't go because of cost. Men, of course, you know, dominate every field when it comes to mental health, it seems like so and that's the exact same case in construction, even more so where a male dominated industry. paul: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Joey Bell: Um, so yeah, don't think that you're alone out there. Um, because I would guarantee, you know, if you're at a plant and you've got a handful of drivers in that room, I guarantee a couple of them probably feel this exact same way. And you don't have to, I'm not saying that, you know, you got to bring it up in the safety talk at the beginning of the week when everybody's circled around there and, you know, air out, you know, someone's dirty laundry, so to speak, but like, I mean, talk to people one-on-one and just like ask how they're doing, know, ask about what's going on. Because they probably have a lot they want to get off their chest. Stuff going on at home, stuff going on with work or at church or just whatever. It felt so good to like finally get a bunch of stuff off of my chest, like just with my psychiatrist and then, you know, being transparent, you know, she kind of adjusted some medication that I was already on and man, it did wonders for me. Like I came back home and you know, my wife has struggled with me for years because of my poor communication. Just for the reasons that we talked about earlier, like I never talked about it, didn't know how to. But now that, you know, my brain, I never claimed that my brain is firing on all cylinders, but I got another one or two kicking off now. paul: you Joey Bell: And so it just made me more comfortable. I used to just clam up when my wife and I would have a kind of deep start to it, or she would try to have a deep discussion with me. I would just like, most of the time I was like, I literally don't know how to respond. And that can come across in a marriage or at a job or just whatever. It could come across as complacency. paul: Mm. Joey Bell: It's like, don't know how to respond. The other person could look at that and be like, well, he doesn't know how to respond because he doesn't really care enough to respond. So it's time out. You froze up for a second. paul: So. Yeah, it up for a second. not sure why. No, you disconnected, but I don't know why. I think it was on my end, but I don't know why. So it's still recording. So your last day was just hard to have. Your wife would think you may be in complacent. Joey Bell: Could you still hear me? Okay. Okay. Mm-hmm. paul: Everything's clear on the scent now. Joey Bell: Okay, good. paul: Yeah, no idea. got ultra fast internet. No idea. Joey Bell: Yeah, same here. see where can I pick up at. paul: Yeah, and I'll splice it all together. Joey Bell: Yeah. paul: I can come in and even once I cut you off like this. All right, here we go. Joey Bell: Yeah, come back in, because I've been rambling a lot. paul: Yeah, it's interesting. Like I also sometimes can struggle to find the right words when I'm talking to my wife. I just assumed I'm a guy and I like don't really don't know what to say. Even worse, like sometimes when she's upset about something, she's like got a valid point. And maybe, maybe the answer to solve the problem isn't what I want to hear or want to do. So those are the times that I know for me that I, that I clam up, but Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Ha ha ha! paul: Man, you just, said a second ago, 10 years that you've been like dealing with this in some fashion and that it involved medication too. So talk, talk me through, or I want to talk a little bit more about your situation if you don't mind. So that people who may be hearing this and saying, yeah, that's me. I haven't felt as much joy about the things that I find joy in. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. paul: Yes, that's me. also not communicating with at work or with my spouse the way that I used to, even though I want to or, you know, and so if I go to talk to somebody about it, like I'm just magically going to feel better or like what, like just to walk me through what that's what that's like. Joey Bell: Like, I can't really speak much on when I first got diagnosed. I think when I first went in, it was like, I think I just... paul: Or what's the that way even to diagnose? How does that even work? How do they see it written on your face? Like, how does all that work? Joey Bell: I got to, I think it was right after I moved back to Tennessee and I started working from home a lot. And so, you anybody that works from home a lot before COVID, you before it was cool, you know, you and I worked from home before it was cool. You know, if you go a stretch or something like that, where you don't travel like one of those slow periods or whatever, like my motivation would start to dwindle. You know, you're, you're trying to make stuff happen and stuff's not happening. paul: you Joey Bell: and all these other things would pile on. And so it got to a point where I did tell my wife this. I was like, I need some motivation. And at that time I was like, I'll just drink more coffee. That's right. Yeah, I'll just drink more coffee. What kind of energy drinks? What kind of stuff can I just get off the shelf? But... paul: Stronger call. That's why you bought the espresso machine. All right. Joey Bell: you know, most of that stuff just like made me jittery. It didn't make me want to do things. paul: me and Josh were just laughing about that the other day. was like, drink all these energy drinks. We're yawning with 180 beats per minute heartbeat. Crazy. Joey Bell: Yeah. yeah. I, yeah, caffeine, my caffeine addiction is mostly just, I have to drink caffeine so I don't get a headache anymore. Like I can, I can drink a cup of coffee and then go to sleep. that's, it doesn't bother me. But yeah, first went to, first went to the doctor just like, Hey, I just need some motivation. I just need something to like, give me a little bit of oomph. paul: Shoot. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Joey Bell: you know, and get me through the days and that 230 feeling was like weighing real heavy, you know, those days. and so that was when, you know, I think when you're getting, when you get medication, like Adderall, for instance, you don't just get that from a regular doctor. You don't get that from your primary care. You have to go see a psychiatrist. They have to prescribe that. And so went to this other, you know, the psychiatrist and paul: Mm-hmm. Mm. Joey Bell: I had the stigma in my head like probably everybody else has. Like, this is a head shrink. I'm not Tony Soprano. I don't need to be sitting in here talking to the shrink. This is silly, but she kind of picked me apart and I'm glad she did. You know, asking the right questions, like, well, what do you, like, what gets you excited or what motivates you? I forget what all questions she asked, but she basically just picked me apart enough and like, she's like, paul: you Joey Bell: I think you've got like a mild case of depression. And I was just like everybody else, like, well, I don't think so. Like I'm not, don't think I feel sad. That's what I thought. You know, I thought depression just meant you felt sad all the time. But it was just like your brain kind of, it kind of gets a fog over it, I guess. Like you can still function. Like you can still, you can still see in the fog, you turn on some headlights and you can still see and get by. but it's not clear. And so she started me on some meds and that fog lifted and it lifted for a long time for several years. And then like it came back. I don't know. guess you probably just get accustomed to the same dose of medication after so many years. And this is what the psychiatrist said the second round. The fog came back, but it was like paul: you Joey Bell: It was worse than it was before. And that's when I went to her and she's like, okay, I think it's escalated. And luckily for me, like I said, the depression I have wasn't that I was going to hurt anybody. I didn't want to hurt myself. I didn't want to do anything like that. But she's like, your brain just, the emotional part of your brain just can't like get firing off properly. to get motivated to do things, can't really get motivated to be excited about things that you love. You know, it was another thing too, like, you know, our family travels a lot. You we use those airline points, you know, that we acquire over the year. So we use them, we go on trips and things like that. And so when also, when I wasn't excited about a trip, like we went to Hawaii last year and I was, it was more or less just another day for me. paul: and Joey Bell: We went to Hawaii and I didn't really give a crap. And so that was another like telltale sign. So got some got some more meds in me and started taking those and man, it was I feel a whole lot better than I did just like a month ago. I think it was about a little less than a month ago. I met with my psychiatrist. This I I I meet with her like a few times a year. But after this last time. Like I feel a lot better just about anything and everything. So everybody, a lot of folks are out there. They're like, you just take more pills or whatever. And they, they're kind of against just more medication, but man, I'll tell you what, I don't know of anything else that really would have helped me out of the rut I was in except for medication. Like it was fast. it took me about a week to kind of calm down, I guess. Like that first week, it was just like, paul: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Joey Bell: I was over analyzing things. I'd get a little paranoid. I don't know what all else like brain was just firing off and I was talking more with my wife about anything and everything. And it was, it was a lot for her to take in too because she was like, I've never seen this out of you. We've been dating for 10 years now, over 10 years now dating and then married, of course. But she was like, you know, this is the in the last three days, was the most we had talked about anything deeper than surface level in years. And so just go, that's, I guess the take home from this part of the conversation is just go talk to somebody. If you don't want to go to a doctor, talk to somebody else at work, whatever, your closest friend. I don't know. There was a friend of mine, paul: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Joey Bell: that he is always like, in his relationship with his wife, he was the communicator. His wife was the reserved one and didn't really get emotional and didn't know how to communicate that. And so he's always been pretty open about him and his wife's relationship. And so he was one like, I'm close to him, but I'm not as close as like you Paul or my buddy Jacob or a couple of these other guys that I've known for. paul: Yeah. Joey Bell: 30 years in some cases. But I felt comfortable enough with him because he's had these talks before. He was also a former pastor before he opened and he started his own business. So he's had these conversations and he's been part of the conversations. And so I felt real comfortable just reaching out to him and just be like, you know, how do I navigate this? What am I doing? I know this is what I've done for the last decade. paul: Mm-hmm. Joey Bell: and now I'm trying to turn things around. And so he had a phenomenal outlook on what to do, what he's done, what his wife's done. I could get that perspective from the other side. It was like, it was getting a third party perspective about Christa's side of things in marriage or just applying that to things at work, like just people you communicate with. It was just more... paul: Do you remember what he said that was so valuable? Joey Bell: From his side of things, he now realizes that his wife, it wasn't a lack of empathy or that his wife didn't care. What was important for him was that she just, a lot of times just was not able to communicate what she was feeling inside. Inside, the hamster wheel is just really going. There's smoke flying off of it. You got so many things that you could potentially say, but they're... It's all it's like physically impossible to get them out. Like you can't, you just cannot talk about it. I don't know why it just won't leave your lips. And that goes on, you you sit there in silence for several seconds. If we sat here in silence on this podcast for 10 seconds, it would feel like an eternity. And if we, you know, you do that in the midst of a, a deep conversation, like with your spouse, you know, paul: Mm-hmm. Joey Bell: My wife ain't patient enough to wait 10 seconds for nothing. paul: I mean, as long as you're not scrolling Instagram while she's trying to have that conversation, maybe. Joey Bell: No, no, it would just be like, you're just kind of, your eyes are wandering because you're almost literally looking for a way to try to communicate what was going on in your head. And so from his side of things, he was like, I now understand that she wasn't just complacent. And I had to be a little bit more patient in the meantime until, you know, she got a little bit more straightened out and you know, marriage counseling was a big thing for them. paul: Hmm. Joey Bell: He's like, don't be afraid to go to marriage counseling. And I remember, you know, years ago at AMI, when I had some other personal stuff going on and was talking about like counseling or whatever, marriage counseling, couples counseling, you know, there were several of our managers that had that. I remember sitting in one of them's office. He's like, I've in it. I've been in it. That guy over there, he was in it too. He's been in, he's been in those counsel, you know, those sessions. There are a bunch of us. paul: Mm-hmm. Wow. Joey Bell: which, you know, looking back now is understandable when we were gone so much. So when you're gone, you got little kids at home, you don't know how to communicate, like you become, you just become the guy in the house that pays the bills at a certain point. Like your spouse doesn't connect with you. Like your spouse is supposed to be your best friend, like the first person you go to for anything. And... paul: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Joey Bell: when you're not that, they could potentially find that in somebody else. And so it doesn't have to be like an affair, like a physical affair. you know, if you're not doing, if you're not being intimate or anything at home, they're going to go do that somewhere else. But it's the same way with like just a good conversation. And so if you're not providing that to your spouse, they're, I would say they're more than likely going to go seek that out somewhere else. And then... If you find out that that's what's going on, it's going to hurt because you're not that person that they went to. paul: Hmm. Yeah, that'd be devastating. Hopefully nobody's sending my wife memes of the high quality of hilarity of the memes that I'm sending her. That would crush me more than anything probably. Joey Bell: Yeah, absolutely. Like, what's this guy? This guy, you think this guy's funnier than I am? You like his algorithm better than mine? What's going on here? paul: You think he's on here? No, no chance. might, she might, hasn't been responding. I just say that she hasn't been responding to any of the memes that have been sent. I'm gonna have to, or that our talk, sit down tonight. Who's, who's, who you talking to? Who you sending memes to? And you know. Joey Bell: I mean, it could get to that point, like I said, that first week that I was on medication, like, man, I was just like over analyzing everything. And, you of course, me being the pessimist and the realist, my mind would go to like the worst thing going on when in fact, you know, we just needed to talk about it and it would be nothing. But the fact that we just talk about it just made you feel immensely better. Like, okay, I mean, I trust you. paul: Mm. Joey Bell: So just communication in general, think, has helped tremendously at all this. paul: Well, you know, it was interesting to say that because we did a sales training a few years back. Gosh, it was probably 2022, maybe 2021, 2022, was sales training. And the whole idea of the training wasn't to make you learn how to say the right pitch. It was like, you need to learn about you. And God, that was so valuable for me because it actually opened my eyes to the fact that When I got into serious situations and I would get uncomfortable, I would want to make a joke. I'd want to laugh. And it was not the time, not the place, not appropriate in some situations. But I wasn't just doing that at work. I was doing that at home too. there were times, and I just did it on this podcast, where we're having a serious conversation. And I was like, I hope my wife's not sharing memes with somebody. I was like, crap. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. paul: I did it again, you know, so I, at least my wife knows that about me now. they're like, Hey, I, cope with humor and that's how I try to get it. Also another, another flaws is we're selling a singer flaws. I was laughing. It was a meme that went around recently about, you know, somebody like, do you have friends? It's like, yeah, I have all these friends. I, you don't talk to them. Sure. I do. And they're like, see all the memes that you send them, but we never actually have like a real. Joey Bell: I'm paul: They're like a real conversation. That was like, that was me and you, it me and like a ton of people. Yeah, I talk to them every day. What are you talking about? It's just sending memes back. Joey Bell: You're basically... You're basically pen pals, you I guess at that point, like you're not really talking. You're you're communicating through gifts and memes and dumb crap that you find on the internet, which I'll never, and you know, looking back now, I always remember Hank Williams, senior, most of y'all that know anything about country music know who Hank Williams senior is. And I think one, one time somebody was interviewing him. And I think if I get, if I remember this right, if I get this right, Somebody asked him like, why do you write such sad, heartbreaking songs? And I think his answer was somewhere along the lines of that's literally the only way I can communicate. And looking back now after everything that I've had going on, it's like, I understand that now. It's like he couldn't, if you said, hang Williams down and try to talk about something semi-deep, he probably couldn't talk about it. But the fact that he could sit down and put pen to paper. and just write those words down into some of the greatest music in history, especially at the time, and launch country music into what it is today. Like, I get that now. And I look back and I'm like, in a way I used to love to write, and I still do, I just don't do it much anymore. Like I loved to write about turkey hunting, I loved to write about concrete stuff, you know, I'm only good at two things. or I like to talk about two things, turkey, onion, and concrete. And I get that now. Like, I could put thoughts to paper a lot better than I could just speak them. paul: Yeah. Well, I mean, you're a good orator, but like especially when you're reading things, but you're actually legitimately a good writer. So if people didn't know that you legitimately are a good writer. And this, this like concept you're talking about with Hank Williams, senior, actually you just made another connection, like memories in my brain, things I used to laugh about. And now I like, all right, I get it now. Back when we were in college, we'd see all these 19 and 20 year olds running around in the house that we lived in. And these guys who were like, Joey Bell: Thank you. paul: blue, mostly blue collar, tough guys at college, literally to like educate themselves out of having to like work on the farm anymore. And these tough guys like at one in the morning would be in the room crying, drinking beer and you could have a group of them even doing it. And I just thought like, what in the world is going on? They'd be listening to sad Hank Williams songs. Now, you know, there's a tear in my beer and they're like literally just like Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. paul: like living out the song, like, I feel you Hank. You know, they're just like, this is, this is crazy. Like, what are these people doing? but that was it. They, they didn't know how to communicate that in their regular lives so that they didn't have to end up in that spot where they were half drunk or all the way drunk and crying about the girl that broke their heart or whatever the situation was. And, you know, that's making a lot of connections when you say that. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Yeah, it was the only avenue in which, just like Hank Williams saying, that was how we, I guess, offloaded a lot of the emotion that we keep pent up all the time because we're guys, we're not supposed to talk about that. That's dumb. You get called all kinds of slander for talking like that. And so when you have all these tough guys, all these farmer guys, blue collar, you know, whatever, and you turn on a sad country music song. And it's just like, okay, I don't have to talk about this, but I can listen to the sad song and have me a beer and laugh about it. But in reality, it's like, I'm just offloading a bunch of stuff with this music. And then probably hear some other time, I'm going to have to offload it again. If you, if you listen to it a lot of time, a lot like I did, I mean, you had a lot of stuff pent up that you were like, getting out daily through this music. So music was a huge part of my life for a long time. And looking back, I think it was for that reason. Like the stuff had to go somewhere. You can only, your body is just like a barrel. You can only put so much stuff into it. And so it has to go somewhere. And so if it wasn't music, luckily mine was mostly music. Yeah, I drank a lot in college. But thankfully, like I didn't, I guess I was a function, I don't know, maybe I was a functioning alcoholic, you know, I went to class mostly. But. paul: I don't even know if it's alcohol even the right word like it wasn't like I don't know either man I don't I don't think I'd ever put that label on what you were I think you're partying in college and then when college stopped the partying stop pretty much Joey Bell: Like, yeah, I don't really know what, you know. Yeah. But I guess what I'm getting at is most of my offloading of emotion or whatever was through country music. And I do like whiskey. And then there were some guys where they didn't care anything about music, but man, they drank a lot. And when I say somebody drinks a lot, they drink a lot, a lot. And unfortunately, it eventually was detrimental to their health. They got in trouble, whatever. paul: some of those. Joey Bell: They're drug, people turn to drugs because it makes them, you know, guess for similar to alcohol, you know, whatever. Most of us have a vice of some kind or just an avenue of which it clears our head. just offload some stuff. So, yeah, fortunately mine was music and it kind of turned to writing a little bit. And I don't really what it is now. I think I, now that I'm more comfortable talking about it. paul: Hmm. Joey Bell: I don't think I have to have those avenues anymore. I can just talk about it and offload stuff. paul: I appreciate you coming on here and talking about your side of this dilemma and how when you saw these stats that really opened your eyes that like, you're not alone and that there's going be people who said this, they're going to be feeling some kind of way and they're not alone and that they can reach out to you, Joey Bell on LinkedIn. What's your Instagram handle? Yeah, so that was a... Joey Bell: Reverend 434, that's my Instagram handle. paul: at Reverend 434, like a preacher, Reverend 434. So I appreciate you putting that out there. I want jump back to the industry trends. You mentioned like 20, almost a quarter of all overdoses, job site or workplace overdoses are from the construction side of the business, 18 % of suicides from the construction industry, or only 7 % of population. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. paul: Do you have any theories or thoughts on why that is? Joey Bell: You know, I think maybe we touched on it earlier, but it's, you you have a pretty heavy mental load at work in the industry and your, your decisions have real consequences that you can see, you know, when you're building, you're literally building things, you know, you're, make a wrong decision and it could detr, it could be detrimental to other people's safety. You could set a project back, no telling how long, you know, the list goes on and on and on. And so you've got this huge mental load on. And then you couple that with your working long hours. You know, it's not, especially, you know, way back when it wasn't uncommon to have 60, 70, 80 hour work week. So you get, you get physically drained. And then I don't know. And when we trip, like we were traveling a lot. And if you travel a lot, you get a little bit of stress at home, you know, from your spouse, and then you got kids. And so you just get all these, you just get a lot coming at you at one time. Like a lot's on your mind, whether people want to admit it or not, a lot's on your mind. And so that's a lot to juggle. And so I guess when, like we talked about a few minutes ago, like an avenue of release or something like that. drugs that's a pretty quick release you take something I don't do drugs so I'm probably the least cool person to talk about you know what what you do when you do drugs but you get what I'm saying like it's almost instantaneous that release and alcohol is probably you know probably a little bit slower but it's the same kind of thing that's quick you can do paul: Mm. Joey Bell: The DARE program made us think that drugs were everywhere and they were, I guess they were right because you get to be an adult and you're like, man, people are buying drugs all the time. So they weren't lying. But I guess what I'm getting at is that stuff's easily accessible. Alcohol you can buy off the shelf and drugs, a lot of drugs, can buy off the shelf now. So I think it's just, that's a quick release. paul: the Joey Bell: And then when you have so much pent up, I can see how somebody can overdo it. Like, man, I need a lot to get this out of me. paul: Yeah. Well, it doesn't help either because the stress doesn't go away the next day. It's not like, it's not like that solves the problem. Just might help you get to sleep that night. And then the next day, I know you've had a lot, you've put a lot of thought into this situation. You've read a lot about the trends in the industry surrounding mental health. So I, I'm curious to know your interpretation of things when Joey Bell: Mm-mm. paul: I try to think about why would the numbers be so much higher in construction for these mental health stuff. I wonder too for almost self-selecting in the industry folks that might be predispositioned to this. You know, you're dealing with a lot of folks, especially on the labor side that You know, they didn't choose construction necessarily. They didn't choose concrete a lot of times. You and I did. But they might not have. And so they may be in a situation where like, this is the job that will hire a felon. This is a job that, you know, is not going to, you know, I can pass one drug test, they're not going to do it every year. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. paul: This is a job where I didn't have to have an education, I just had to have a strong back. So, has there been any research done into that or have you put any thoughts into, do we need to be maybe even more sensitive or forthcoming in these types of conversations because we might be self-selecting a population that would be predisposition to this type of behavior? Joey Bell: You know, I don't know that, I know that we need to talk about it more. And I think if we, if we don't make that situation worse when they enter the construction industry, just like you said, they've got a lot going on. They could already be, they could already have whatever inside their mind that's bothering them. That's could legit, you know, kill them one day. You're not paying attention on the job site, whether or not your depression or ADHD or whatever, if it's not the kind where you want to hurt someone or other, yourself or others, you could just not pay attention and some yourself or others could get hurt. It could kill you. So I think we, I don't know about like the predisposition or anything like that, but we for sure don't need to like make it worse when they get into the industry. And I think we just need to, we just need to put a little bit more effort. you know, supervisors. We need to start, I think we need to start treating mental health almost as, pretty much as much or more as we treat like physical injuries. Like how many, how many safety briefings have we been through over the last 13 years or so? paul: Mm-hmm. I mean, you can't count that many. Joey Bell: that talked about, yeah, that talked about literally anything that you could physically hurt yourself with. Tripping over something, falling off of something, getting run over by something, something that's flammable. I mean, the list goes on and on and on on on. How many, how many, how many sessions that we had to sit through that talk about what we're talking about right now? I can't think of one. There may have, there had to have been one. paul: Yeah. I I can't think of anything. There might have been. Joey Bell: HR, I'm sure would have made sure that there was at least one of those sometime or another. paul: Well, they might have been like one slide inside of one presentation that was done one time. Joey Bell: Yeah, yeah. And so, like it's a safety hazard. And I think we need to start treating it like that. Like guys, a lot of guys are just not okay. And that could just lead to bad decisions. And that could lead to somebody losing an appendage or not going home at all. paul: Well, you're saying they're not OK, but they can be OK. And it starts with just having a conversation with somebody and let them know that you care and that you're there. You can have a conversation with this person and it can be private. It doesn't have to be. Doesn't have to be like out in front of anybody. Don't call anybody out. Joey Bell: They can be. Yeah, like I said, this isn't something you need to air out at the weekly safety meeting with everybody sitting around. Like, just take somebody aside. Like, you can get a few minutes, you know, for yourself every day, sometime during the workday. And that's all it takes. You know, just that little nudge or something like that. And then somebody can just like, man, I've got some SHIT going on. Let's hear about it. paul: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, dude, we all got something, right? Joey Bell: Everybody got something. That's another thing too, is like, don't ever think that anybody has it all together. You know, especially like social media. You social media is not real life. I don't care what anybody says. paul: That's the first message I taught my mother's 10 now and she's like, is social media bad? And I tried to explain to her like, well, the problem is, that none of it's real. And whatever message that is being communicated to you is the feet, your feelings about that are going to be real. And so when you see a photo and your friend says, wow, Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. paul: great dinner with my family, we're on vacation, yay, look how great my life is. Like what they're not showing you is that right before they took that picture, they were all arguing and fighting. And then for five, like one second, they smiled and looked at the camera and they went back to fighting or, know, whatever it is, like, they're not going to present both sides, the whole story and let you know that yeah, we're not perfect people. was like, so... Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. paul: You know, for a young girl, I'm not going to expose you to this trap and known as Instagram. So she's not allowed to have any social media and her friends already do. She's in fourth grade about to go into fifth grade. Her friends already got phones. They already got Facebook and Snapchat. Snapchat's like the big thing. And I'm like, no, I'm sorry. You just, you can be mad at me and upset with me now, but your brain works later. You know, you'll thank me. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. golly. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's scary to think about bringing kids up in the world. But you also, I mean, you can't think that negatively about it. I can't believe I'm saying that. But that's a dark path to go down if you're all doom and gloom. I mean, you gotta look at the bright side of everything. I've said social media isn't real life and that's true, but I think social media is also what you make it and I'm not really talking about kids I guess so much as like adults because I've heard so many people that say I Got off of social media because I didn't like what I was seeing. Well, you control that Like you don't have a TV and you watch one channel. You can change the channel you paul: Mm-hmm. Joey Bell: You control what you see on social media and our Instagram algorithms can tell us that. You linger on a reel or you linger on a post for however many seconds and it makes no to that and it'll find something else like that to send you. So don't think that social media is the issue in many cases. I mean, you just gotta be looking at different stuff. If you don't like politics and all this doom and gloom stuff that you would see if you watch the news, then you probably need to just follow college football or some of this construction humor that you and I send each other a lot or business humor and sales and things like that. My Instagram feed is, I like it. It's not, when I get on social media, I don't get depressed. I don't think bad things. because I've controlled what's on there. paul: Yeah, same. Mine's also very happy. I try not to too much time on there. I don't know if I've mentioned that every podcast, but it comes up, I got a little baby, four months old. And man, when I'm done, when I clock out from work, like I grab him, so there's not like a bunch of time to be scrolling on the old Twitter feeds and stuff. I do get, I have a... Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. paul: several bosses and they like to call me at any time. And I can't tell you how many times they've called like 530, six o'clock and are like, you know, hey, what are you doing? I'll talk about this thing. I'm like, I'm strolling the baby around the neighborhood. Fire away, man. Like, you know, I can talk just as easily pushing a stroller, I guess. But yeah, so thankfully I've had less time to be on those things. I think it actually, I think it does help. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. paul: off of that stuff and not seeing people arguing back and forth. Even if you find it interesting, oh, that's an interesting point. Oh, that's an interesting counter-argument. Oh, that's an interesting rebuttal back to that counter-argument. Even if it's interesting, it's still, it always, for some reason, always veers toward negative when those people are talking. Or it may just come off as negative because it's text and it's really hard to show empathy in a text message. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Yeah. paul: I try not to have like serious conversations with anybody in a text message because like this is not going to come off the way it would come off if I was standing in front of you or having a genuine conversation. So back to the construction industry, what are some more findings that you've done in your research as you've, you know, were first Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Hmm. paul: shown by a LinkedIn post that kind of grabbed your attention and you started diving deep on this for the last couple years. What's some more stuff that you've learned that we should know about? Joey Bell: I think that was the gist of it, that there was this data, all these things are happening, but we're just not talking about it. I think it's just that the main takeaway here is that we just need to be more open about the stuff that goes on in our head, because it just leads to the worst of the worst, somebody taking their own life, which fortunately has never... paul: Hmm. Joey Bell: I've been fortunate enough that's never entered my mind. I couldn't, my biggest fear in this world is leaving my children without a father. And so the fact that it got so bad for somebody just like me that they felt that was the only way out. Like that is horrible. And I wish that that would never happen again. Of course, you know, it probably will or it will, but we need to put forth our best effort to make sure it doesn't happen. we, again, we've got to start treating this stuff with the same dedication that we give to tripping over an electrical cord at the plant, you know, and just menial stuff like that. Like, we just need to be talking about this more because it's happening. We're just not talking about it. paul: Yeah, we got hit with it just last year. was a former VP of AMI got into a situation where he didn't, he thought that was his only way out. no, this is one those classic cases of like who, what? Like, no way. Like I had it all. yeah, I guess you just never know what people are struggling with. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Yeah. This, uh, this stat was interesting. Uh, this is from the center for construction research and training. It was like a data bulletin that they put out in, uh, 2022. It overdose deaths, outnumbered fatal work injuries, 17 to one for every one workplace fatality. had 17 overdoses that paul: Cheese! Joey Bell: I guess could have happened anywhere. They could have happened on site. They could have happened on the job. They could have happened at home, whatever. But these employees did not make it to the next shift for every one fatal work injury. paul: And you think that goes to like what you're saying where we've put such we've done such a good job as an industry putting safety at the physical safety at the forefront that if we do, you know, maybe doesn't be exactly equal, but we also put effort into mental health safety that these numbers could could improve. Wow, that's interesting. So. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. paul: You work at Huber and you know, for those who don't know, they bought active minerals and let's keep the name and all that fun stuff. one of the great things about being acquired by Huber when we were there, when I was there, is their benefits package was insane. I know you're on your wife's because she works for the government and they're all so good. But I'd never been a person that cared about what the benefits package was. Who cares? Let's roll. Let's go, you know, kick butt and take names. Not worried about this or that. But when Hubert came in, had more benefits than you could shake a stick at. One of the ones they had was a company called Lyra. L-Y-R-A. Lyra. And it was a mental health benefit. So even if we're not talking about it in our circles, on the construction side, Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. Hmm. paul: even within our own company, maybe you and I aren't being exposed to it, but somebody cares and they took the time to make sure they went and got that benefit. It wasn't like a standard part of like, oh, you have Blue Cross Blue Shield insurance folded underneath that as this mental health thing. It was a completely separate program and it was bolted on. And my daughter went through a thing and I called Lira and like, mean, I so it's funny because I called like a bunch of like psychiatrist and tried to the regular insurance tried to do all this other stuff and everything. we're booked out two years. Can you talk to nobody? Also went through Lyra got an appointment at 48 hours. And then she got eight appointments. After that one, we paid nothing. So so when you maybe think about it, because you're saying hey, as an industry and as you know, when we say as an industry, what you're really saying is Joey Bell: Wow. Wow. paul: the companies in the industry could start bringing this to the forefront. But let's say a guy does come to you and says, me, myself or my spouse or my kids are going through a mental health challenge, hopefully not a crisis, but a challenge. Who do we go talk to? Because maybe they maybe they don't want to open up to a peer or manager. They want to, who do, how do I find the psychiatrist that Joey found? How do I find these people? Where are they at? And there are services out there like Lyra, L Y R A that do all that heavy lifting for you. It was phenomenal, dude. It was so easy. It was so fast and they got set up immediately. The guy was great, helped us out. mean, just couldn't recommend it enough. So thank you, Hubert. Thank you, Lyra. Joey Bell: Yeah, yeah, the resources are there, especially on the corporate level. But I think, and those are great, but I think a lot of times you got to start at the ground level. Like you got to start with the guys out in the field and just one-on-one because there are oftentimes where, it's better, it's easier for me to talk to like a third party than to like one of your friends or whatever, because I started learning about this too, like people you're close to, you hold their opinion on such a high pedestal that you don't want to disrupt that. You don't want them to think you're afraid of what they would think. Whereas, you know, third party, you know, doctor, whatever, like it's a lot easier to, to open up to them. Um, and that was, you know, that was one of the cases, you know, like Paul, you and I, like I never really comfortable talking to you about it. I never told my wife about a lot of this stuff and she should have been the first person that I talked about it with. But you you've got to start somewhere. And I think you just got to start out in the field and one on one and then get somebody like professional help. And don't put a bad stigma on that phrase either. Like professional help is literally somebody that knows what they're doing. that can help you when, know, oftentimes we think we say you need professional help. It's like, you need a straight jacket. That's not the case. You know, there's people out there that can help you immensely in various methods, either medication or, you know, whatever kind of sessions to talk through and activities, whatever. I mean, it's, it's limitless. So don't think that you're just going to grow into the doctor and they're going to give you a pill and send you on your way. paul: and That's right. Joey Bell: It's not like that. Like they can help you the best way that you want to be helped. paul: Well, you mentioned the marriage counseling and I was like, I was kind of like against that a little bit, not not the second time around. Second, but like, like just the idea that wasn't like, I don't know about that. But then I got a reframing of the situation and they're like, no, is personally the only thing about it's counseling. Imagine Joey Bell: Ha ha ha ha ha! paul: you should think about this person as a coach because you would never be like, I'm going to go play football and just walk out on the field in full pads and nobody have ever taught you anything. You you need to be coached up. If you want to be good at anything, it's going to help if you have a coach, but nobody's teaching you how to be in a relationship or be in a marriage. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. paul: go get yourself a coach. They'll teach you the basics, blocking and tackling. And then you go out there and you figure it out. And some of us are five star recruits and other of us gotta go find other things to do. Joey Bell: and you quickly realize that it is not easy for anybody regardless of their star level if they're a five star or a one star punter it it... you're fine... paul: I got I got five star heart. Brick by brick building this marriage brick by brick. Sorry, the humor thing again. Joey Bell: Hashtag Butch Jones. But, but no. But when you like when you talk to people like nobody's marriage is easy. I don't care who I don't care who is out there what they post what they say to your face whatever. Nobody's marriage is easy. Absolutely nobody. I don't care how good it is. It takes a lot of work to make something run good. It takes a lot of paul: Yeah. Joey Bell: It takes a lot of work to keep things running awful too. Like it's just hard in all aspects. And so don't be afraid to don't think that, yeah, this person has got it all together. They're going to judge me. No, they don't. They do not. Especially if they got kids. One of the first things I realized when I had kids was that my parents didn't have a freaking clue what they were doing. And they didn't have near the resources that we have now. Like they, they literally just got sent home. paul: Thanks for listening. Mm-hmm. Joey Bell: with me and a pamphlet if they were lucky. And then they had to, that's where the phrase, takes a village. Yeah, it does take a village because don't know, don't one person know what's going on. You're to have to talk to a hundred different people. paul: Mm-hmm. you know, my wife and I just had this conversation literally this morning in the kitchen about like, she's like, I don't know what to do about this with the baby. And I was like, well, we have AI now, honey, all our problems are solved. Just ask them. And she looked at me like, you know, gave me that look that she probably should have gave me. And I was like, well, you in the past, she was like, hey, but you're supposed to be the expert. You've already had one of these things. And I was like, man, I don't know nothing. And Joey Bell: Ha ha. Mm-hmm. paul: But in the past you would have asked your neighbors or your family or whatever. She's like, yeah, none of our neighbors have kids. It's like, well, we have AI. Ask him. He knows everything. Joey Bell: Yeah. Well, that's another thing too. mean, if you don't want to talk to somebody, you don't talk to a person and make that first step in that direction. mean, just I'm going to chat GPT. I mean, it can because I've done this. I've logged in there and be like, hey, like how how can I convey this without sounding whatever that I don't want to sound like? And man, they'll they'll spit it right out. They'll help you. So paul: you Joey Bell: If you want to talk to somebody, plug it in chat GPT and that's at least a step in the right direction. You're not stagnant. You're at least getting somewhere. paul: Well, well, let's be real clear. You didn't make Chad GBT your therapist. You, you were asking it for help on how to, how to talk or how to message, which I think that's a really important distinction. You, you, you 100 % though did the meme where instead of talking to a therapist, you started a podcast. So congratulations. Joey Bell: No. Yeah. I've had a couple podcasts, thank you, if that tells you about how much therapy I probably really needed. paul: Oh, man, that that clip is going to be on the Internet. So thank you for that. Man, this has been good. You know. As a friend, I hate to hear that you were going through anything, but I think this is it's it's nice that we can have this conversation and bring this to the attention of the industry and they're not hearing it. Joey Bell: There you go. paul: being preached from on high from an HR person sitting in an ivory tower. They're hearing it from you. Nobody has been in the mud more than you. Nobody's been to as many states making mixed design changes, helping people out on the technical side as you, and now you're helping, potentially helping people out. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. paul: on the mental side as well. thank you for coming on here and talking about it. I'm still going to give you crap all during the college football season. The dark, humored memes are still coming your way. I don't care, you know, how many psychiatrists you talk to, you're still my friend. I'm not going to treat you any different. But I can totally understand how, like, you wouldn't want to make that first move to say, hey, buddy, you know, feeling a little down. Joey Bell: I hope so. Good. paul: Because even like as your friend, we might not know what to say and how to even handle that conversation. So just to put a nice little bow on this. We are having this, or Joey, I should say, brought this to my attention and wanted to have a conversation about it. Because he is alarmed at the statistics behind our industry. And today is a good first step. Joey Bell: Mm-hmm. paul: to raise awareness, to have that conversation and say, we as an industry can do better company by company. We've done such a good job at promoting physical safety and improved that area of the business. Now we need to shift some of those resources to mental health and see if we can help folks there as well. Joey Bell: Yeah, yeah, I'm willing to talk to anybody about anything. I'm never going to claim to be a professional in anything, especially this, any kind of, you know, mental anything. But I'm happy to be an avenue of which you can offload some stuff on and you won't hear any judgment from me. Just like we said, probably a lot of stuff that you're going to tell me, I've probably been through it too. And... people in glass houses and such. mean, ain't no rocks sitting around here. I'm not gonna cast any kind of judgment. So feel free to reach out to me. paul: Yeah. That's cool, man. Thank you. And so if you want to reach out to Joey, more on this topic, can DM him on LinkedIn at Joey Bell, working for Active Minerals and Huber. You can find him. He's probably got a turkey suit on, even on his professional pages. And then you can also find him on Instagram at reverend434. It's reverend, like a preacher, 434. Joey, thanks again for coming on. Glad to hear things are going. You know swimmingly back at our old stomping grounds. You are the last of the Mohicans and then you're spreading the good word not just about Actio, but now also about mental health awareness and construction. So thank you, bud. Thank you man. Well, I'm looking forward to college football season. We have to have you back on. You know, Josh is going to come on pretty regularly talking about conspiracies. Probably one a month. So she's wondering maybe you'll come on and we'll make fun of each other's football teams once month. Joey Bell: Hey, thank you, brother. I'm proud of you. Mm-hmm. Totally fine with that. to come on, paul: All right, I appreciate it. We'll talk soon. Joey Bell: Thank you, buddy. Paul Fendley AI: Please subscribe to the Slump Monkeys Concrete Podcast on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 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