Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Wired To Hunt Podcast #141: Sam Collora & the Tactics That Led To 3 North American Whitetail Cover Bucks

Transcript

Wired To Hunt Podcast #141: Sam Collora & the Tactics That Led To 3 North American Whitetail Cover Bucks · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan. This is episode number one forty one.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: Tan the show, we are joined by and talking deer
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: hunting tactics with one of the very lucky few deer
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: hunters who has ever made the cover of North American
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Whitetail magazine. But this gentleman has actually made it three
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: times with three different and that guy is Sam Calora.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: All right, welcome to another episode of the Wired to
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: Hunt podcast, brought to you by Sitka Gear. And today
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: in the show, we're joined by a very special guest,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Sam Clara. And Sam is someone I've wanted to have
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: on the show for quite a while now, uh for
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: for a number of different reasons. You know, first and foremost,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: he's a well renowned deer hunter who has killed a
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: lot of really big bucks, including three deer that have
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: scored over two and all three of those deer have
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: been on the cover of North American Whitetail. So that's
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: pretty impressive. But what's also particularly interesting about Sam is
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: that his story one of his stories intersects with that
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: of our very own Dan Johnson, my trusty co host.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: So some some of you guys might remember this story
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: because we have talked about it a little bit in
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: the past, way in the past, Um, about this hunt
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: that Dan had for a giant buck known as Shipwreck.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: But but today we're gonna look back on that hunt
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: again and getting that only Dan's perspective, but also Sam's
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: now and then also dig into the stories of some
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: of other Sam's other great big buck kills, some of
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: the things he's learned, some of the fall bosophies and
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: tactics that have led all the success, the success and
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: lots and lots more so. So Dan, all right, are
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: you ready to talk about Shipwreck again? Dude? I'll talk
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: about that, dear anytime. I tell you the The one
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: takeaway from chasing a big, mature buck like that for
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: so many years is that was the buck really that
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: kind of changed the way I started that I hunt,
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: you know, Um. And then you know, we can get
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: into a lot of detail about that some other time,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: but and I think we already have in some of
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: the past episodes. But it's just it's a buck, buck
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: that you hunt, you never kill, but he leaves you
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: with something and he teaches you something. And that's what
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: I that was my success. You know, I considered that
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: a successful journey as far as hunting that particular buck,
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for sure, just from knowing what I know,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: it seems like that, like you said, it's change you
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: in a lot of ways. It molded you as a
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: deer hunter and m and now here you are today. Unfortunately,
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: unfortunately he hangs on someone else's wall. Who'll we'll talk
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: to you here in a few minutes. But that's how
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: it goes. But but real quick before we do get
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Sam on anything new in the world of Dan Johnson,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: you know, just husband, father stuff, you know that, uh
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: that cubical life. Can I tell you that I was
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: looking at reviews on iTunes. I don't know if you
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: saw this one have put. Someone left us a one
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: star review and they said if I wanted fathering advice,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: I'd go somewhere else. So I just laughed. So have
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: I ever tried to give advice on this show? I
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: don't know. If you ever get advice, it might not
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: have been. It might have just been if I want
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: to hear about parenting or fathering or something like that.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: I can't remember the exact words, but but they gave
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: me a good sorry. I'm sorry to that person that
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: I ruin into your entire day. And they weren't able
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: to take away anything else from this podcast except for
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: the very short amount of time that I actually complain
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: about my own family. Can I tell you what, though,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: I can relate to you a little bit more today
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: than I could have in the past, because this past
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Friday and Saturday, we babysitted my sister in law's four kids.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: So there was a two year old, a three year old,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: of five year old, and twelve year old. And that
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: was a handful, man, that was real handful. So so
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: I got to give them away at the end of
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: the weekend, right like you. Still, they're not yours forever, mine, forever,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: my mind or mind forever true. I guess that's a
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: that's that is an important difference. Let's not talk about kids, man,
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: I don't want any more one star reviews. Okay, well
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: do you have anything non kid related? Um? I went
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: on a seven hour shift hunt on Sunday. What are
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: you what do you find? Uh? Well, knocked on a door,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: picked up a new piece of property. Um, shed hunted it,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: hunt hunt? Well, I first I shed hunted hunted it.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: But the guy goes, hey, you know, as far as
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I know, we don't have any people bow hunting on it.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of a plus plus for me. And uh,
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: but me and my buddy Ryan, we went out there
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: and we walked it and oh my lord. Uh. You
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: know when you walk into a piece of property, like
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: when you're scouting this time of year, you're shutting and
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: you can't it's hard to look for sheds because you're
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: looking at so many massive rubs that your heads, your
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: head just kind of goes up and starts looking at
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: places for tree stands. It was one of those kinds
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: of spots. Yeah, one of those kind of spots. So um,
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: and it doesn't hurt. You know how I always talk about,
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: you know, if you can't get the main piece of property,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: try to get the property next to it that it
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: maybe looks attractive on a map. Uh. That's exactly what
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: I did. And um, the sign in there, I mean
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: it's nothing but a little finger that pops out of
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: a little creek system. But the neighbors it's all managed
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: and it's you know I got don't. I don't know
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: who the owner is, but you can tell from an
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: aerial map they have food plots and shooting houses and
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: stuff like that. So that's awesome, man, that is good news. Yeah,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: I heard you. Uh you went out and got a
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: piece of property too, right, I did. I. Um, what's
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: it like, I says? Last night? Um, I knocked on
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: doors last night. Um. The past week or so, I've
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: been maybe a little longer than I've been driving around
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: in the evenings check out fields, trying to see where
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: all these deer feeding now and kind of pinpoint of
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: handful that I want to try to get permission on.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: So last night and knocked on the doors for three
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: of them. Um. Two of the places I had to
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: come back to twice because no one was there. On
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: one of them, no one was ever there. The second
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: place they already shed on a hunting so I couldn't
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: get permission there. But the third I did get permission.
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: So uh, I haven't walked it yet, but probably tomorrow
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: the next day I'm gonna go check it out. And
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: this is a piece that is very close to my
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: main Michigan uh spots where you know Holy Field is
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: or was or hopefully is. So, um, I'm hopeful that
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: he that this could be one of the spots where
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: his sheds could be. So I'm excited they'll get permission
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: to check that out. It's it's mostly big crop fields,
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: but there's been a lot of deer feeding in it,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: and there's some fingers of timber where there could be
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: some deer bedded or you know, hanging out in the
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: middle of the night. So there's there's a chance. Yeah,
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: for knocking on doors is pretty good. Yeah, I agree,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: even you know, she hunting permission is a lot easier
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: than getting deer hunting permission. But but in Michigan, it's
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: all it's all a win. Yeah, so plus your foots
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: in the door. Man, you know I'm a bow hunter.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Oh we don't. I don't think we have
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: a bow hunter on our property, which you know, Michigan,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: who knows. But you know, for me, I saw some
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: tree stands while I was in this in this piece,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: but you know, they're all on field edges that looked
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: like places for muzzle loader or you know, other types
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: of stands. So as uh, when Turkey season arrives, I'm
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: gonna go back to the same house and go, you know,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: basically start that process of letting them know who I
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: am and what I'm about, that I'm not a terrible person,
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: and that hopefully that all rolls into me creating a
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: relationship with them to get my foot in, you know,
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: to start bow hunting it. Yeah, that's the way to
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: do it. Um, we gotta we gotta end this pretty
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: quick here because Sam's expecting us, but really fast. I'm
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: just curious in your neck of the woods, what have
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: you been hearing from people as far as percentage of
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: antlers that have dropped, a percentage of bucks that have
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: dropped already. Right, So, I had a good conversation with
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: a buddy of mine who's a die hard too, and
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: he says forty are dropped, are dropped. But for me,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: the trail camera exsures that I've seen and that I've
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: gotten from a couple of other people. Uh, it's less
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: than that. So it's it's still not what what I
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: If I could take it all back, go back in time,
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: I would have saved that seven hour walk for probably
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: this upcoming weekend or the following weekend. Yeah, I've been
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: hearing similar things here and from my buddies in Iowa.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: I've heard like sixties still holding. Um My, my camera
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: pictures have kind of dried up. Like I mentioned, it's uh,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: they've they've moved on to better food sources. So I
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: don't know what's going on here, but the well, what
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: I can say is all the time I spent driving
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: around the past week and a half, I've seen hundreds
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: of deer and only one of those is a buck,
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: or only when one of those holding antlers. Um, So,
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: either you know a lot of deer round here have
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: shed or it's just typical Michigan where there's hundreds of
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: doughs and one buck in the whole burn area. So
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: so I don't know about that, but hopefully there's a
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: few antlers on the ground. Will we'll see. I'm gonna
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: try to walk this weekend and then the following weekend
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: is the Iowa trip. So that's right, that's right. Excited
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: about that? Yeah, buddy, Well, should we wrap this up
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: and uh give Sam call. Let's get him on the phone,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: all right, I'm looking forward to this. So we're gonna
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: take a quick break for a word from our partners
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: at sick Gear, and then we'll give Sam call alright,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: So today I want to give a big thanks and
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: kudos to our partners at Sick of Gear for doing
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: something that Dan and I have been talking a lot
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: about lately, and that's standing up for public land. And
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: this past week, Sick of Gear send out an email
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: to their whole email list, which probably includes tens of
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: thousands of people, rallying the Sick Could Tribe to take
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: action in this fight, and I thought their message was
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: just was just spot on. So I thought today I
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: could share a little bit of that email with you
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: because I really really liked what they had to say.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: So here we go, Sick Could Tribe. Public Lands are
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: at the heart of everything we do as hunters. Public
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: land and wildlife are uniquely American traditions. All of us,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: regardless of our personal wealth, enjoy the privilege of accessing
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: public land and water to support healthy populations of fish
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: and wildlife. Access to quality public land that supports these
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: opportunities is vital to our livelihood as hunters. We live
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: and breathe public land and water and understand the importance
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: of these places more than anyone else. This is the
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: land that we all own as Americans. It's land that
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: I cherish with my wife and daughters and land that
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: all of our children grandchildren should be able to hunt, explore,
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: and enjoy. Unfortunately, as we have all recently seen, there
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: is a very real effort to diminish and sell our
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: public lands. These efforts will compromise family traditions, our ability
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: to put healthy food on our dinner tables, and the
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: lifestyle that defines us. This public land transfer movement seeks
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: to transfer federal public lands to the states under the
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: promise of greater public control. The reality is the public
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: already owns these lands and transferring them to the state
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: would only increase the likelihood of future privatization. Too many
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: sections of public lands have already been privatized, resulting in
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: little or no access at all. As hunters, we do
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: not want to give up another acre. Under direct pressure
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: from hunters of all stripes, hr SI, which would have
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: sold over three million acres of public land, was finally
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: withdrawn by Representative Jason Chavitz. This is a positive victory,
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: but there are other efforts that threaten our public lands now.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: The email goes on to explain three specific issues. Hr SIWO,
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: which is another one proposed by Chavits which tries to
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: remove the BLM enforced service law enforce and functions horrible
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: idea organ House build two, three six five which will
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: empower a tax force, a task force to research the
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: benefits of transferring federal public lands. And h J Resolution
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: forty four, which will reverse improvements made to the Bureau
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: of Land Management planning process. These are three specific issues
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: they mentioned here and now will continue reading that email.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: They say these are only a number of the issues
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: that are a threat to public land access. We can
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: and must take action. We urge you to call your
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: representatives and tell them you oppose HR and HB and
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: support keeping public land in public hands. These are issues
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: that transcend politics and should unite us as sportsmen, women,
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: and children. The diversity of the hunting community is our strength.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Politics do not discriminate in the field. We all share
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: in the tradition of public hunting as equals. Additionally, we
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: urge you to join us in supporting the efforts of
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: back country hunters and anglers, Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership, the
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, and our other conservation partners who
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: are driving the public lands agenda. Become a member and
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: support organizations that are making a difference. United with these
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: conservation champions, we can send a strong message to legislators
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: that the hunting community will not allow the sale of
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: our legacy public lands are vital to our lifestyle and
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: the future of hunting. Now, that is an awesome message
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: right there. That's the end of the email, and it's
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: one that I'm so proud to see come from one
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: of our great partners at sick cad Gear. And if
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: you'd like to learn more about SIKA, I'd highly encourage
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: you to head over to sick good gear dot com
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: check it out. And now let's get back to business
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: and get Sam on the show, all right with us.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Now on the line is Sam Clara. Welcome to the show. Sam,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, we we appreciate you joining us, and
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: we've actually talked about you a decent bit over the
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: past couple of years because of your relationship with Dan,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: but but for a long time I want to bring
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: you on here and just talk to ourselves. So that said, though,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: for those in the audience who aren't familiar with you,
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: can you just give us a little background into who
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: you are. I got here cutting your background and hunting
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: in your business related to deer. Uh you sure, I've
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: been hunting all my life. Thirty years ago this spring
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: I started raising white tailed deer and I don't I
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: had them about a year and a half and and
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: we started collecting urine and we've we've started a company
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: called Mrs Dopees Buckler and we've been collecting urine and
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: selling premiere quality lures every since. And and you're also
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: running a sporting goods store there too, right? Is that
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: is that okay? Still? Yeah, we've got a little archery shop,
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: a little archery and hunting shop that it goes along
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: with that. It's kind of a sideline to the to
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: the buck lure. But but it's uh, it's a neat
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: little business. Yeah, bet So what about hunting? How did
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: you get into chasing deer and now chasing some of
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: these world class dear? You know, my uncle gave me
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: a set of shed antlers when I was eight years old,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: and I've always said that he was the one that
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: started this curse because I was antler crazy every since.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: I love deer, I love antlers, uh, just everything about him.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: It's it's it's been quite a quite a run. Yeah,
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: I think me and Dan can relate a lot of
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: us can relate it. When did you so, do you
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: start you started deer hunting at a young age or
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: did you did you get serious about later on? Or
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: when when I was young, we really didn't have any
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: deer in this area. Uh. I can remember seeing the
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: first the first three deer I saw. I was probably
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: twelve years old and a buddy of mine's mom was
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: taking us to a to a farm pond to go fishing.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: And we went back to town and told everybody was
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: everybody we knew that we saw a deer. I mean
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: that was a really really big deal. Back as as
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: I got older and the deer started to you know,
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: to prosper and do well and and propagate, we you know,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: we we started hunting and the rest is history. I
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: guess what year was that, Sam? When when you were
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: you know, when when deer start finally started to I
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: get start making a presence in Iowa. I was probably
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: eighth grade, two freshmen in high school, so uh, sixty
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: three sixty five right in there is when we really
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: started seeing dear. Okay, and then and then I'm curious
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: now that invention that Dan, Now I'm curious when or
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: what was the quality of the deer herd like back then,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I mean right out the gate where when you start
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: seeing a lot of deer. Was it all of a
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: sudden and lots of these big, mature deer or did
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: that not start happen until later in the seventies or eighties,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: or when did we start seeing the Iowa that we
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: know now? You know they it wasn't that far into
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: it that that there was some really nice deer shot
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: and seeing. Uh, we pretty much have everything here we
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: need as as far as you know, to produce really
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: good deer. It's just a matter of getting enough deer
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: out there to get some age on them to to
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: really you know, show the you know, show the size
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: of the deer. Yeah. What are those things that you
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: that you're referring to that you think, you know, help
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: Iowa produce the quality deer they do. What are those factors? Well?
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: I think a big part of it is is we
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: don't gun hunt during the rut. I think that's a
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: huge part of it because that allows some animals to
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: get some age on them. Uh. We have a good
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: amount of cover, but we have tremendous agriculture, Uh, mineral
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: content is really good. There's a lot of calcium and
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: you know, just all all of the above. H then
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: the genetics are good. I mean, it's just every everything
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: we have going here in Iowa for for growing big
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: deer is it's a win win. Yeah, it sure seems
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: like if from everything Dan tells me about the good
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: times he has out there, you guys have got a
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: good situation. So, Sam, there's a lot of want to
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: cover on our conversation here, because you've obviously had a
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: lot of interesting experiences hunting and killing deer out there. Um.
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: But but one hunt in one story in particular, it
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: is kind of where I wanted to start because it's
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: it's this interesting intersection between your hunting past and my
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: buddy Dan's here um, And it's kind of a cool
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: opportunity that we have you both here to talk about
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: this story for this deer known as Shipwreck. So so
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: I thought we could maybe start there and maybe Dan,
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Um and you get you guys can tell me how
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: you want to tell this story. Maybe you guys don't
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: understand the timeline better than I do, but but I
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: think the story starts with you Dan, and maybe do
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: you want to set the stage here and tell us
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: maybe an abbreviated version of your side of the story,
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: and then we can jump over to Sam and hear
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: the parallel side on on your end. Yeah sure, I mean, oh,
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: it's been a while now, but we used to hunt
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: in an area where our property we're close to one another,
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: and and my first year in this property, I saw
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of good deer coming out of a portion
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: of this property that was kind of between the two
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: and uh, one day a giant white tail just popped out,
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: and uh, I mean it was shipwreck. And that's kind
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: of the abbreviated version of a five year story that
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: I can I had from with this buck. You know
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: what I mean, that's all you're gonna tell us is
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: that this big buck popped out. Well, I mean, I mean,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: you know, like like I said in the in the intro,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: it was it was my very first encounter with a
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: buck of that caliber, and it's it changed the way
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: I hunt to this day. Being able to experience this buck,
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: learning from his movement, learning you know, the times of year,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: he moved, the wind direction, and just you know, basically
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: observing a specimen like him kind of gave me an education.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: And you know it he was, you know, I I
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: believe he was probably working both properties for you know,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: but probably closer to where I was hunting. And then
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: you know, later on on his life, he probably started
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: moving down to where where Sam was hunting, and that's
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: where the intersection kind of takes place. Yea. Now it's
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: been probably two years or so since we actually went
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: through the detailed story of like all your encounters with him.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: Can you walk us through just I mean, for because
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: there's probably a lot of listeners that are new that
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: missed that episode number thirty or whatever it was that
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: we went through, you know, the timeline a little bit.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Can you just give us a little bit better idea,
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: you know, because this was how many years this go
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: over the course of and I mean, weren't there encounters
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: for three or four years or something where your close
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: calls or you spent your whole season, you know, focused
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: on him? Yeah? I think, Uh, man, Sam, what year
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: did you end up harvesting him? Oh? It would have been,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: uh two thousand and eleven, was it? Because it was
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: five well no, it was eleven, okay, five years ago. Okay, Yeah,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: So I think my very first encounter with him was
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: in two thousand seven, and um, you know, he he
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: had a very small core area. I feel as far
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: as I know, he would make trips outside of that
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: every once in a while, but for the most part,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: he lived in a very small core area and his
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: his movement was very limited to a very small portion
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: of of the farm that he lived on. So you
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: saw him two thousand seven, yea, stall him in two
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: thousand seven, didn't see him in two thousand and eight,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Solomon two thousand nine. I shot him but didn't kill
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: him in two thousand in and then Sam Harmon harvested
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: him in two thousand and uh eleven, two thousand nine.
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: Actually I saw him multiple times, gotcha, and and it
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: was two Well when did the obsession begin? Like, when
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: did you start like completely focusing on this deer? Was
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: that chose nine or ten? It has been two thousand
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: nine because I had um that's when I started running
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: trail cameras. That's when I started having all the encounters
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: with him. That's when I started losing sleep over this buck. Okay,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: So then, Sam, when did when did shipwreck enter your life?
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: When did you first see him? The first time I
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: saw Yeah, it was the day I killed him. Was
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: it really you see that? Set back up a little bit.
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: Let me back up just a little bit. I have
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: a set of ships from that deer when he was
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: seven and half years old. I killed him at nine
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: and a half years old. So we knew he was
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: living there. We knew he was, you know, on the property.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: I had never seen that deer as an adult deer
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: at the time. I really didn't run any trail cameras.
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: I just hunt. Uh. Anyway, he he. I went in
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: there that night with a with a donastrous drag rag
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: and did it. I've kind of kind of prescribed way
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: that I used it. Anyway, he was. He was the
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: fourth buck to come in that night on that drag rag. Wow.
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: So so what day of the of the month or
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: year was this, and can you tell us what you
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: how you specifically use that rag that drag rag. Yeah,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: it was. It was the eighteenth of October, and it
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: was the first time I had a favorable win what
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: I thought thought was favorable for where I wanted to.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I wanted to and and I actually went in there
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: looking for that deer. But it was the first day
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: of the season that I had a favorable wind. Uh,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: temperatures dropped and got cool and just kind of drizzly
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: and damp and dank, and and it was it was
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: just perfect, and the wind was out of the right direction.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: And I went in and pulled the drag rag and
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: and here he came. What did you so when you
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: saw him walking in? Did you know who it was?
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Right away? It was that buck from the sheds? Will
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: I will never ever forget as long as I live.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: I I watched and Dan remember how his front or
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: at the end of his main beams tipped up? Ye
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: hook hook clear up. I saw that hook coming from
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: behind a tree. And I went on and I thought
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: to myself, well, there's a little shipwreck. I probably ought
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: to kill him, so so I will never forget it.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I can't. I can imagine. Now, did did you know
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: other than the sheds? Did you know that other people
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: like Dan or some of the other hunters around there
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: had been seeing him? Because I remember, there's there's a
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: I think there's a handful of you guys that had
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: been seeing this deer? Is that is that right? And
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: this is this is a win win deal. You know,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: Dan and I are hunting properties, you know, Jason to
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: each other and nice and close, and when he shot
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: him in two thousand ten, he came and asked my
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: permission to walk across the property if he could trailing through,
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: and I told him he had blood going through, to
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: grab his bone and go kill him. Anyway. He came
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: back and told me later that he didn't find him
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: and he didn't go in the property because there was
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: no blood going in, and which which I appreciated because
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: he wasn't and they're just pushing mine out anyway. Uh,
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: this is this, This is a win win deal because
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: you've got two guys hunting a great, big deer on
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: you know, properties, right beside each other, and we're still friends. Yeah,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: that's a big, big deal. Yeah, this said, how often
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: that kind of thing ruins relationships when people let a
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: big deer get in the way and cloud things like
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: that happens way too often. I think, Yeah, the thing
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: that was kind was really I didn't I didn't quite
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: get at first. When when Dan came back and told
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: me he didn't find him, he stood there for the
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: longest time and looked at me, and I went, oh, damn,
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: that said five find him later. I'll give him to
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: these yours. You shot but he was giving me his
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: look It's like I'm I'm what's going on here? That
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: I finally figured out, like, yeah, he's yours. Well that
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: was I was probably in some form of shock because
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: it was the biggest buck I ever had an encounter with. Yeah,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: you were, You were in bad shape, buddy, Torah. So
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: so you said that you're going into that spot on
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: that night for shipwreck. Um, what what made that spot
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: so good? And why did you think that'd be a
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: spot you could kill shipwreck on that day? We we
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: have a little bluff over the river and it's it's
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: kind of the funnel of the river bluff for miles
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: either direction. And if you go in there right and
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: and hit the ridgeline, a lot of times the bucks
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: will come in there and sent check the whole thing.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: And and I worked that ridgeline. But but there's a
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: bedding area that's been there, and like I said, we've
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: hunded this area for for thirty years, and there's an
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: area in there. There was a betting area that was
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: really good, thick seaters and brushy, and they they would
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: go in and bed they're always anyway, it got to
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: where it canopied the trees canopied over it, and it
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: was starting to thin out. And a couple of years
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: previous to this, I went in there and hingecut uh,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: probably a core of an anchor and where that old
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: betting area was, and I hinged cut a bunch of
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: trees and it just got thick and nasty and and
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: I worked around that, across the ridge line and around
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: that heading area with that drag rag and got into
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: where my wind was perfect, and and that's where he
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: that's where he came in. I killed me. Well, when
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: when you shot him? Yeah, tell me, I guess, tell me,
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: tell me what happened after that was an easy. Recovery
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: was a tough one. How did all that go? And
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: then I'm kind of curious about how then you told
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: Danna how Dan found out how that whole thing went down. Yeah,
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: the recovery was was really easy. I I shot him. Actually.
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: The first thing I do want to get in the
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: tree stand always is to check my equipment and make
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: sure everything's good. And the second thing I do, and
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: I don't care if I've been in the tree a
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: thousand times or once, I always try to check the
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: area i'm in to look for the worst possible shot. Well,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: and this this case, I had a blowdown that the
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: top of a tree. It blow him down, and and
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: I didn't know it since the last time I was
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: in the stand. Anyway, there was I was looking for
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: a hole to shoot through and I found it. I
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: found actually a couple holes, and I thought, well, if
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: a deer came through the back side of that, you
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: could probably slide an arrow through there. And sure enough
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: he came in on the rag and then he turned
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: and came on the back side of that blowdown, and
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: I remember thinking he's gonna step right into that. And
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: when I was thinking whole you know, the boat went
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: off and the arrow went through him stuck in the ground.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: And he turned to my left, jumped a little ravine
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: and then started uphill, and I mean he was he
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: was pouring the coals to it. And I roared at him.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: I did a buck grunt roar uh really really loud.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: And anyway, when I did, he I think he thought
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: another bucket stuck in because he came to a stop
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: like a cutting horse, I mean just slid to a
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: stop and me and he turned and he looked right
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: at me and he tipped over. Wow. Is that something
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: you've done in the past to stop a buck when
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: he's running off and has seen that work more often? Yeah,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: I've done it, done it a lot of times. They will,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: they react well to it. Wow, that is really interesting.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: I've never heard that mentioned to do with white tails.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: I've seen people do that and heard people do that
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: with elk. You know, you start cal calling after studing
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: an elk, and lots of times i'll stop, But I
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: never heard about that for white tails. That's a it's
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: a really interesting idea. I was with a guy in
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: New Mexico and I had shot a bow elk with
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: a bow and it was running towards a ravine and
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: if it would have dropped in there, we had to
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: take a skill of them there and ate it. You'd
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: never got a fount anyway. He he did that, he
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: he cal called, and it stopped right at the edge
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: of that that drop off, turned around and looked at
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: us and dropped it over. When we pulled a pick
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: up up to him and loaded it. Wow, that's crazy.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: That happened with shipwreck. That's that's really interesting. So he
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: tips over, Um, did you do? What was your I'm
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: sure you were like rewind here a second. I've got
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: ten thousand questions in my mind. I want to ask.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: I'm first curious, when you saw that buck coming and
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: you're getting ready to shoot him, did you do you
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: still get some kind of buck fever? Do you still
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: get nervous when a comes in front of you? Or
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: have you seen so many big deer and killed so
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: many big deer? It's just going about your business, you know.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: I I'm I'm solving as rock and I don't have
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: any problem at all until I release the arrow. I mean,
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm solid. There's there's no problem, there's no jitters,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: there's nothing. But when I release that arrow, just turned
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: to garbage. And I did, and I still get that
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: that adrenaline dump that that is just it is so unbelievable.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Is that something saying that you've had to learn how
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: to um deal with over your course of hunting, or
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: is that something that you know basically comes with Hey,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: I've been there before, I've been around big deer. You're
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: experienced in that in that type of scenario. Or is
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: it something that you've always been rock solid from day one? Now,
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: I I wouldn't say I've always been that way um,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: I always keep it together, but I used to get
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: more more fluttered, you know, before I dropped the arrow.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's yeah, I'm I'm good until the you know,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: until I pull the pull the trigger on the release,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: and then it's just. My son and I sat in
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: a blind together this fall. We had two deer, the
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: one our hit list, and I killed the first one
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: latent or late muzzloader. Was the first day of late
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Muslims season. I just could not get together with him
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: with a bow. Anyway, I killed the first one, and
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: in a week later, I'm sitting in a blind with
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: my son and I've got a bow because I haven't
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: filled my bow tag yet, and he's got a gun
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: and he's not wanting me there because the big deer
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: comes in. He wants to shoot him, right, So he
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: tells me this isn't right. You've already shot at here.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: And I said, well, if he comes in close enough,
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: if he comes in close enough for bow, I'm gonna
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: shoot him. And anyway, we talked about it, and and
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: I was getting sick, I had I was getting the flu,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: and I was a key all over, and I didn't
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: want to sit in a tree stand because it was
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: like twenty degrees and a twenty five wind, And so
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: I went in to blind with him, and I said,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: what are the odds of us seeing that we neither
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: one of us have got in this buck within range
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: all season? What are the odds he's gonna come in
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: here tonight with both of us here. Well he did,
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: and he turned and came almost. I mean he was turned,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: coming right square in front of the blind, and I
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: had the bow in the window, hooked up and and
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: I was ready to shoot. And he veered off and
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: went away. And anyway, I stepped out of the window
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: and I said, get on him. And anyway, my son
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: ends up shooting this year. We watched him run into
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: the timber well. I went to lay my bow down
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: in the blind and I went I turned around and
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: looked at and says, okay, so you shot this deer.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: How come I'm shaking? And I was shaking like a leaf.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: But I guess being in the window and having the
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: bow ready and and yeah, but but I never did
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: it till after after he shot. So it was kinda fun.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: It's good to know that feeling doesn't go away. That's
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: what it's all about. It is still exciting. Yeah, So
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: after you shot Shipwreck, Um, when did when did Dan
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: find out? How did how did Dan find out? What?
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: What was all that about? Uh? Dan at the time
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: was was with White Knuckle Productions and he and he
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: and Todd were doing their videos together. Anyway, I knew
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: that they had a series of videos back I'd watched
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: I'd watched the videos of this big Buck, and I
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: knew that they had an ongoing relationship with this deer
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: and and Dan was obsessed with him. And anyway, so
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: I called Todd and told him that that I had
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: good news and bad news. I said that the good
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: news is is is uh. I said, the bad news
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: is shipwreck got shot tonight. And I said the good
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: news is I did it. And he said I've got him.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: And anyway, I said, I know you guys need closure
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: for your videos. So if you want to bring your
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: cameras tomorrow, um, you can, you can finish that off.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: And and he called Dan right away. And then Dan
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: called me back right away and told me congratulations. And
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: you know what, I liked Dan before that, and I
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: like him even better afterwards because he didn't get pouty
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: about it. He didn't he didn't uh, didn't have a fit,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: or you cheated or you did something wrong. It was
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: it was then you want congratulations, and and he was happy,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: very very happy for me. That's a big deal. That's
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: awesome for sure. What do you remember about that moment,
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Dan Paul, It was it's it's hard because when you
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: when you obsess over something like that for so long,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: and you know, deer hunting is our passion, and you
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: come across the deer like that, that's, you know, a
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: once in a lifetime for for me, it has been
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: so far, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity, had
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: a giant, a true two and um. And then when
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: that story comes to an end, you're you're happy that
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: it's you know way, you're happy that it's over. But
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: at the at the same time, you're you're sad because
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: that that deer has brought you so much enjoyment, not
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: just from hunting it, but you know, sitting down in
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: front of a computer looking at maps, you know, trying
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: to figure throughout your next next move, playing basically chest
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: with it. Yeah, I can definitely relate to that. I
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: we're gonna say something else, Yeah, And I think I
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: think what was it saying, am I that weekend that
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: because I was, I was at work that whole week.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: So then that weekend or the following week, I I
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: came down to the shop and he let me. He
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: let me take a look at it and put my
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: hands on on shipwrecks rack. And it was to this
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: day one of still one of the coolest and counter
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: like experience. Says We just was just letting Sam, letting
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: me hold those antlers and look at them and touch
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: them for you know, because that buck had had meant
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: so much to me, even though I wasn't the guy
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: who harvested it, you know what I mean, So that
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: it was that was a win for me. Yeah. But
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: what you know, we talked earlier about the fact that
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: you said he learned a lot from this deer. Did
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: you learn anything or did you change at all? How
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: you I don't want like you obsessed over this deer.
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: You we've all done. We've obsessed over deer and then
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: in this case, somebody else killed it. Did this change
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: at all how you view your chase for a specific buck.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: Did it help you, you know, not feel as bad
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: or did I don't know what changed for you in
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: that regard, you know, just and maybe and maybe Sam
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: could talk to this a little bit about how he
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: has approached his tenure as a bow hunter. But I
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: think a lot of it had to do with, you know,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: me just being too aggressive right off of the bat,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: when the when the hunting season started. Yeah, so just
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: from a hunting perspective, that you got too aggressive and
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: and that was a big and that makes sense and
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: I can see how that might be something you would
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: do when you're hunting. So so Sam, what about for you?
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Was there anything that you learned after this hunt, through
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: this experience hunting shipwreck and finding sheds and everything. Did
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: you come out on the other end having learned anything different?
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: I don't know that he taught me anything because, like
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: I said, I only had one encounter with this deer.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: I didn't even find the She had a buddy of
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: mine us here that I bear hunt with from Canada
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: and he was here turkey hunting and he found the sheds.
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: So I really only had one encounter with with shipwreck. Uh.
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: And And don't get me wrong, I have a an
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: incredible respect for these animals and their abilities and and
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: you know, they beat as more than we beat them.
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: That's for sure, But I can't really say that, you know,
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: Shipwreck taught me anything. Uh, I guess the biggest thing
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: I got of course, you know, chilling a great, big
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: deer is always always incredible. But I think the biggest
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: thing I got out of it was, you know, there's
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: there's still a lot of really good people out there
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: that are in our hunting hunting, and you know, Dan's
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: one of them. He's he's he's uh, you know, he's
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: a tribute to our sport. Well, I think that's pretty accurate,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: right on. So, so Sam, what about some other deer?
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Has there been any other particular deer you can remember
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: over the course of your past hunting seasons that you
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: can look back on and say that experience taught me
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: something or that changed how I hunted. You know, Shipwreck
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: was that deer for Dan. Can you remember any kind
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: of experience like that for you? You know, yeah, for sure.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: And and it's probably not the deer I've harvested. It's
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: probably more than the ones that have beat me, which
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: which just a lot of them. Uh. Yeah, there's there's
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: deer that that I zigged when I should have zagged.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: I pulled a drag rag in one time and I
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: made a sharp ninety degree turn and the deer was
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: falling in, had his nose to the ground. He was
• 42:12
  Speaker 1: dog paddling. I mean just he was on it coming
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: in and I had turned really sharp and he went
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: right off of it, and and I could not get
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: him in. And I I swear to god, it was
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: the biggest deer I've ever haunted. And I didn't get him.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: He beat me and I beat myself on that one. Wow.
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: You know we have we don't talk about using drag
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: rags are often. I know you mentioned how you used
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: it in the shipwreck case, but can you just walk
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: us through high level what the right way in general
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: is to use one of those, and what your specific
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: technique usually you know in general intails. Yeah. The first
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: thing is that when when I do a drag rag,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: I always using the Dylan astres and I think that's
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: something that one of the things from raising deer and
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: living with them, we've figured out that if we use
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: dough and astros before the dose in the wild come
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: into heat. Just just like shipwreck, I kill him the
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: eighteenth of October, so we weren't even close to the
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: being in our rut. But the box are capable of
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: breeding as soon as they come out of velvet. Uh
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: they you know, they actually prior to that are are impotent.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: They have to get their testosterone level up and that's
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: what shuts the blood suply off to the antler and
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: allows them to become viable and able to breed. So
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: you go out there with with doan estris early prior
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: to the rut. And what I do with a drag
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: rag is I will start, First of all, I do
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: tons of preparation for my for my scent and scent
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: control and boots. You know, the boots don't go to
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: the grocery store the game as station. They they're in
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: a tote. They get and I get dressed at the
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: edge of the timber when I'm going in and the
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: boots come out of the tote and I put them on.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: I do cheat a little bit. I wear those boots
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: in my deer lot when I'm you know, when I'm
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: doing chores and that type of thing, because I've got
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: lots of deer sent there. Uh. The other thing that
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: I well with the drag rag itself, I'll start out
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: pulling the rag. Basically it's just a string with a
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: with a cotton rag on it, and I will apply
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: a little bit of sent to that rag on the
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: way in, and I will continue to add to it
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: all the way into the stand. And by doing that,
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: I'm not trying to get somebody to, you know, slash
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: a gallon the lure out there to sell a whole
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: bunch of it. We start with a few drops, continue
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: to add a few drops all the way in, and
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: what we're doing is showing which direction that deer is traveling,
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: so the scent gets stronger all the way into your
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: stand location. Okay, as you make your final approach to
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: your stand, it doesn't matter if you command with a
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: wind or side wind, or how you do it, but
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: your final approach to the stand needs to be with
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: the wind to your back walking into the stand, And
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: in doing that, when you're sitting in the tree, you're
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: not up there blowing back to the deer. The deer
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: scent would be blowing to you final approach to the stand.
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: I always always trying to make a little bit of
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: a hook, and not real sharp, but just a gentle
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: little hook. So and then put the rag like in
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: a little sapling or something, and I want him to
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: turn and get his attention away from me. Not look.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: I don't wan him to come in and park stick
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: his nose on the rag and look at me and
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: the stand. I want him to come around and be
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: poured away and paying attention to that rag the other direction.
• 45:59
  Speaker 1: And I have done this so many times, I mean
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: just over and over and over and had had dear
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: do exactly what they're supposed to do. Mhm um. You
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: mentioned that you're usually gonna start using this type of
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: tactic in the pre rut. How far how far past
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: that will you continue doing it? Do you do it
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: all the way through November through November? Or when do
• 46:20
  Speaker 1: you stop using a drag like that? You know, I'll
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: use it all season, all the all the way through. Uh.
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: And you think about it. You got pre rut, You
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: got bucks out looking for does, and they're traveling and
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: they're looking and I used the first of October when
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: when we open here, uh, bucks are capable breeding like
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: the first of September. So the first of October when
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: you're out there doing that, they're not going to command
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: like they do November one. They're not gonna command crazy,
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: But a lot of times they'll walk in and do
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: exact care what you wanted to do without going blowing through.
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: You know, if you if you're hunting the right when
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: everything's you know, ram and jamming, and everybody's you know,
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: going her mile hour, it's much harder to kill a
• 47:14
  Speaker 1: deer if you got him walking in and and going
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: over and sticking his nose on a drag rag. It's
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: it's a heck of a lot easier to put a
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: hole in him. Very true. Well, would that be the case?
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: What would your favorite what's your favorite week of the
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: year to be out hunting white tails? Last week in October?
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: And why I don't have any competition? The does aren't
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: out there stealing them from me the boat. The bucks
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: are all ranging. Uh. And and I'm saying in the
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: last week in October to the first week in November. Uh,
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: the bucks are all ranged, and they're all out there
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: looking for a girlfriend. And it's so much easier to
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: get them to do what you want them to do,
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: uh than it is if he's if I did a
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: did a seminar down to Atlanta one time, and I
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: had I had this, gave him back and we got
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: to the question and answer thing, and anyway, the guy
• 48:17
  Speaker 1: raises his hand and he and he his question was
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: when the bucks are controlling the rut, what happens? And
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: I stopped him right there and I said, you know,
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: bucks are not controlling anything. To hang on him, and
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: how many married men would get in here? And then
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: you know sus in race or hand Listen, how many
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: of you folks control I mean, how mean you guys
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: control the rut at you're out, no kiddings. So so
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: you know, if if you don't have any competition from
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: the ladies, you can you can be the only game
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: in town. And it works. I mean, it's just unbel
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: eviable how it works. And you know when the when
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: the girls start stealing them. I related to hunting turkeys.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: When you're out there on that green field and there's
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: a there's you know, a gobbler out there with sex hands,
• 49:13
  Speaker 1: it's real tough to call him over to the edge
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: of the brush and killing he's not gonna leave her,
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: heard them, And it's the same thing with a buck
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: he's with a hot dough, real tough to get him,
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: get him to come see you. Yeah, what other speaking
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: of drag rags and stuff, what other sense do you use?
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: And what other applications other than the drag rag approach
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: or is that the only way you're using your sense? No,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: I I will I've got a I think Dan may
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: have used some. We've got a it's fairly new. Uh
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: we call the land mine. And we have a bottle
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: of lure that you actually bury the entire bottle in
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: the ground and and you once you've got it buried,
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: then there's a a on the bottle. You pull the
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: ring and there's a wick inside the bottle and you
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: pull that wick up out of the ground and it
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: permeates the scent, and and you do it in a
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: scrape area. And it is unbelievable as the action we
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: get all those things. Well, you're using that. I used
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: one this year and uh I didn't take your advice, Sam,
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: and pack it down hard enough. And they will they will, they'll,
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: they'll dig it out of the ground with their hooves. Yep,
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: they'll steal it. We've we had we've had a whole
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: bunch of guys that had the last picture they got
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: to their landline. The deer had to wick in his
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: mouth walking away with the bottle. Uh So what we
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: started doing is boring a hole in the ground with
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: a cordless drill, and then we pressed that bottle down
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: into that hole and that keeps him from digging it
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: out or pulling it out with the mouth. Interesting, very interesting. Yeah,
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: it sounds like a good type of situation for great
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: trail camera pictures. I've used a lot of mock scrapes
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: and things like that with my camera for photos, but
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: I've never really settled on a particular scent or lure
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: that I've been able to use that has worked for
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: me best. I've still kind of just stuck with natural
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: market kenyon human urine, and I've been meaning to try
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: some different things, So maybe I need to try something
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: like that. Both both of the bucks that that my
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: son and I killed this year were we had had
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of trail pictures of them over the land mines.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: M hm. Do you do you use other things during
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: the rut or pre rut time period that we've been
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: talking about, like aggressive calling techniques or anything. Um. Absolutely, uh.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: I love to rattle. It's what a thrill when they come,
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: you know, come into set of horns being smashed and
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: and you know, I rattle like ground. I I do
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: everything that that a deer just you know that. The
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: other thing that I can tell you is I've lived
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: with deer for thirty years and I've I've spent my
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: lifetime studying and trying to understand what they're doing when
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: they're doing it. Uh, body language is huge. Knowing what
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: you know no one by their action what they're gonna
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: do next, and they're not always knowing, but but having
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: a real good idea what's going to happen with them next,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: and and being able to call them into your stand
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: location and and you know, it's just all of those
• 52:33
  Speaker 1: things together have you know, have really helped me to
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: harvest bigger deer? Yeah? Imagine can you give us some
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: examples of some of that body language that you look
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: for and and how you react to what you see
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: them doing. Yeah, I've done seminars all over the United
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: States with about white tailed body language and it's still
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: fascinates me. There's there's a couple of instances I can
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: tell you that that you know, and and one was
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: with with uh real well known celebritating standing on the
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: front porch of my shop. We've got deer right there
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: by the showw and this deer started walking up the
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: hill and I looked at him and said that deer
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: is gonna lay down. And he goes, how do you know?
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: And I said, I don't know, but watch him. He says,
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: what makes you think to us? I don't know. I said,
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: just watch him. And he walked up, you know, three
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: quarters away up the hill. He stopped, walked in the circle,
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: made another half circle and laid down. Anyway, the guy
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: to stick, I guess, I don't believe it. Anyway, he goes,
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: I need to spend more time here. They tell it,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: They telegraph. I don't know, if you know, I was
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: a huge wrestling state every kid, and I was wrestled
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: sometime or another. And one of the things that your
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: coach is always teaches your your opponent will telegraph, and
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: he will. He will tell you if you if you're
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: if if you watch close and you understand it, he
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: will tell you when he's gonna move, and they'll be
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: just just something there. You know, there's a look, there's
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: a nod, there's a you know, there's a there's a dip,
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: there's something there, And before he moves, he'll telegraph that
• 54:14
  Speaker 1: move to you and you know what's coming and you
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: can react. Okay, dear do the same thing. They telegraph
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: through their eyes, their their ears, their hair. I mean
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: when you know in that hair and we've all seen
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: their hair stand on end when they're you know, there's
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: two of them bristled up looking at each other. Uh.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: Tarsal glands will actually flower and open up when they're
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: nervous or if they're upset, either one. If they're scared, nervous,
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: upset mad, that that tarsal gland will open up and flower.
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: And you know what it looks like on a dead
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: deer where there's laid down, it's almost like it's combed
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: and groomed. It'll it'll honestly open clear up. The preorbital
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: gland on the on the deer's below the deer's eye
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: will flower. It'll open up if they're if they're scared
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: and nervous. Uh. Those things tell you that you know,
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: this deer is probably going to jump the string on
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: me if if I shoot, because he's already on high alert.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: You know, if the deer standing there and his ears
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: are about halfway down, sitting there and I call him
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: being a neutral, he just standing there completely neutral, nothing
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: going on to do to do, and you know just
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: you know, zipp an arrow right through it. If you
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: see his tail half mast and and kind of quiver
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: and he's probably urinating. Uh, what a great time to shoot.
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: He's not thinking about nothing else. Uh, Buddy, Buddy and
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: I were on our way home from a moose hunt
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: up in Saskatchewan and this deer was was was stopped
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: and he was hunched and it was it was a
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: buck and his back end was lowered. And anyway, we're
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: driving along down the highway and he goes, hey, look
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: at deer's taking the poop And I said, no it, Smittie,
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: it's not I said that deer will will poop on
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: the on the move, on the fly, and he doesn't
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: have to stop and concentrate it. And I said he's
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: taking a leak. He goes, well, I guess you'd know.
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: So so yeah, it's just there. There's just a million
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: things they can tell you by their posture and hair
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: and and and all the things they do. Yeah, Sam,
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: what about barometric pressure and moon phases? And you know
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of these hunters out there, they get caught
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: up in you know, trying to for you know, predict
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: deer movement based off of those two, and including whether
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: is any of can any of those be connected? Or
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: is it just kind of hogwash? Now I think I
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: think there's a lot of merit to all of it.
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: I don't understand it well enough to to tell you
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: that that you know this is how to do it,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: but I guarantee it has merit. Uh here again, I
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: kind of cheat. I look out the window, and if
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: my dear a all up on their feet, I know
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: it's a good time to be there. It's it's a
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: pretty good bromber. I have guys call me at the
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: shop and they go, what do you dear doing? That's
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: how they're all bedded down? Okay, I'm gonna wait a
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: couple of hours. Well, but it really it really is
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: the same if my dear, if all my dear in
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: my pastor if everyone of them is betted, I guarantee
• 57:29
  Speaker 1: it's the same thing in the whild It's just and
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: and I should probably pay more attention to barametric pressure
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: and moon phase and and see what what that has
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: to do with what I'm what I'm seeing. Are there
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: any other things that you've learned from watching the deer
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: that you've raised that you've been able to apply in
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: your actual hunting. All the above, h everything that we've
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: talked about. Just you know, when you when you know
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: that the deer's you know, and when he locks up
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: and he's standing still, or or he'll he'll and here
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: again he a telegraph that he's gonna move. Uh. It
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: gives you a great idea when to draw the bow,
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: when when when not to draw the bow. Uh, it's
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: all every every little detail he gives you can help
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: you somewhere or the other. Uh, kill the deer. And
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: and even even calling you know, if you're if you
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: got him in that last few steps and you can
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: watch him, no know what his demeanor is, it can
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: it can help you either either you know no when
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: to dummy up or when to be aggressive and do
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: some calling. Yeah, speaking of calling, can you can you
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: um oh, diving a little bit deeper into your specifics
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: of you know what what types of calls and grunting
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: rattling sequences you use when you use them? Um, you
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: know what in particular you actually do. I don't know
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: if you heard that or not. I got a bowl
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: elk and just bugled. That's awesome. I'm sitting outside my
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: Homeie he's entertaining my neighbors. Uh. As far as calling, uh,
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I I do a lot of a
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: lot of different calls, and a lot of times I
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: just mimic what I hear my does do with with
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: their babies and around the box. Uh as as well
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: as grunning, you know, and like I told you earlier
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: with with shipwreck, I you know, I made a very
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: very aggressive, you know, growling loud you know, basically the
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: you know, the roar and and I've only heard that
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: a couple of times in a while. But sher locked
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: him up. Yeah, yeah, that's incredible. M Moving back in
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: time a little bit. You killed If I'm wrong, but
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: I believe you killed your first two deer in. Is
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: that right? That's correct? Could you tell us the story
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: of that hunt in that deer? That deer was I
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: had passed the deer hundred yards from where I killed
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: in the year before that was a great, big, lanky,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: tan tan pointer looked like a three year old. And
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: I don't yet, I don't know that it was the
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: same deer, but I always, I always would like to
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: think that it was. But uh, I went out to
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: the eleventh of October and there again pulled the drag
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: rag out into the sand location and had some dosee
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: that I busted on the way in. And I was
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: hoping that didn't screw anything up, but had squirrels played
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: in front of me. And across the c RP field,
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: this deer came in from and and and he didn't
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: come down the drag rag trail, but he came from
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: down wind of the drag rag and walked right to it.
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 1: So he had come all the way across the c
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: RP field with his nose in the air, walked right
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: to that drag rag and and stopped. H I tried
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: to get a shot on him, and I drew the
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: bow and I and and here again I was. I
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: was solid as rock when I did it. And I
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: kept thinking, boy, that's a that's a really good book.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: You know, I need to kill him. Well, I drew
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: the bow and couldn't get through the brush, couldn't get
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: the shot, and I let it down. And when I
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: when I let the bow down, it was just I
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: don't know, it must the simulated taking the shot, because
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 1: I turned a junk. My knee started shaking, and I
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: was started to chatter, and and I can remember telling myself.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: You know, this is a really good buck. Don't screw
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: this up. And I talked myself out. It was like,
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: get your act together, straightened up. When he comes by you,
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: you gotta be ready, you gotta be able to kill him.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: And I did. I got squared away, I got got
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: my you know, got my nerves under control. And I know,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: three or four minutes later, he turned and came from
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: right to left and walked by me in about thirty
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: yards and I slipped a narrowing M wow, what was then?
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: I turned to garden? What was that stand set up? Like?
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: What made that the right spot to be? Uh? Kind
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: of well, it didn't even end up quite like I
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: thought it was, but it was I was. I was
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: set up to catch him coming out of betting, defeating
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: and trying to have have him catch my drag rag
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 1: on the way, and he actually came from the opposite direction.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: M what about your They don't always play excuse me,
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: they don't always play the play the game the way
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: we think they should. Yeah. I gotta take advantage of
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: whatever they give you, right, absolutely? Yeah, Dan? What were
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: you about? What are you thinking over there? You know
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: you've been not only do you raise deer, and you've
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: been you know, raising them for thirty years, but you've
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: been a hunter for almost, you know, pretty much your
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: entire life. Translating that to what the average guy does,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: What are some of the biggest mistakes you feel hunters
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: make in a year when either going after, you know,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: a group of deer or going after us specific mature buck.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: I think sent control is is huge most people, don't,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: you know. I have guys that were sent lots suits
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: that that don't wear a hood. Well, don't bother, you know,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: because you're your ears, your hair, your breath. You know,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: if you're not containing it with carbon, don't don't bother
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: wearing the suit. It doesn't matter. Uh. Using the wind
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: I think is probably you know, And I do all
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: the scent preparation. I do everything with with scent lock
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: and use it, try to use it correctly. Uh. With that,
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: I still use the wind every time I hunt. And
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: you know, I talked to guys it's like, well, we've
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: got twelve stands and there's twelve of us, so we
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 1: all go to one of the stands every day. You know, Well,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: you know, if the wind isn't right, don't hunt it.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 1: You'll take the day off, whatever it takes. But but
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: don't go in and screw it up. Dear, pattern us
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: way way better than we patterned them. If you go
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: in and the and the mosquitoes are biting and you're
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: you're swatting mosquitoes and and sweating and and doing all
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: those things, just you know, don't go go fishing. Don't
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: pressure them. Uh. De react to pressure more than than
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: I think anybody realizes. I try to scout from from
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: you know, three quarters of a mile away. I don't
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: want to go in and bust them. I don't know.
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 1: I just there's there's a whole bunch of things that
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: I used to do that I don't do the same anymore.
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: What are some of the other things. What are some
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: of the other things that you've how you've evolved. Well,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: just like I said, if the wind isn't right, don't
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: go there. Uh, save the save the location. Uh. The
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: first time in the stand is always the very best.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: And I have over the years used a climber a lot,
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: and I'll go out and just have spots where I
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 1: can go and and not necessarily you know, anything set
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: up there. But if the wind's right, and I've been
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: seeing some action and things that are working. Sometimes if
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: you just move, you know, thirty yards from where you
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: were and go up in the stand, you know, sometimes
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: that's all it takes too to throw them off and
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: and put you in the right place. Yeah, it's the
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: little things, right that. That's one of the biggest things
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: I think Dan and I have learned over the years,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: is like just the importance of every tiny little thing
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: you can move in your favor. Those things add up right, Oh, absolutely,
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: And that's something that I've always I've always try to
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: try to tell my customers and even when I work
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: on their boat, I tell them that the little details
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 1: kill big deer. You know, I haven't having everything set
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: where it's where, you know, where your peep site isn't
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: gonna move, or you can't come loose or uh those
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: Like I said, little thing, little details kill big deer. Yeah.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: Are there any other things that you do different than
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: most other hunters? Is there anything else really unique that
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: you apply when it comes to deer hunting that you
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: do that you think is a little bit different than
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: the average guy girl. Probably the biggest thing I do
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 1: different than than every than of the people is I
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: have set my life up around deer and deer hunting,
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 1: and I I will probably spend fifty first forty to
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: fifty times uh what the average hunter does sitting in
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: a tree stand. A lot of quality time a tree Huh. Yeah.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: I had a young man coming to my shop one
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: day and told me he was he was really really
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: upset because he almost fell asleep in the tree stand.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: I said, how old are you he was? He wasnteen
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: years old. I said, I said, hey, I've had that
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 1: many years of sleep in the tree. I said, I've
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: slept the tree stad longer. You been a lie. But no,
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: I you know, you've got to spend the time. You
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: know it. It doesn't just happen. You gotta be there.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: But but on the other hand, if if it's not
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: right and the wind isn't right and the conditions aren't favorable,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: don't go in and booter it up. What you know,
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: what I tell you, how much time I spent in
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: the stand. It's you also got to understand that there's
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch of different stands and a whole
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 1: bunch of different places where I'm going and I'm not
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 1: going in and booter and one up all the time. Yeah,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: Is there anything else you do other than careful seting
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: control and just not going in to hunt too often
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: to reduce dear the pressure, the pressure you putting in
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: your dear. Is there anything else about your strategy or
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: your access routes or anything else that you focus on
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: to make sure you keep that pressure low. Yeah. I've
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: very much tried to slide in and slide out. I've
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: got some buddies that have hunted with me for years
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: that that I finally got. I'm convinced that they needed
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: when they come here to hunt with me, they needed
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: to see every inch of that tember. It's like, guys,
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: you don't you know, you don't need to do that.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: All you wanna do is slide into that stand it's
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: already there. Slide in, slide out, you know, go around
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: the areas where you know there's gonna be deer, you know,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: if you've got to a field where they're where they're feeding, Uh,
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: go around it, you know, and and slide into the stand.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: Don't don't booger it. Just just keep the pressure to
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: to an absolute minimum. We try, you know, in the
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 1: off season not not to booger things up. Uh, and
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: and give the deer a lot of pressure. Um, try
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: to give him plenty of feed and cover and just
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: lay it. Said earlier about you know, hand cutting that
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 1: that betting area, I've done a lot of that. I've
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: cut trails from from betting area to betting areas, so
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: I've got good travel corridors. And with every bit of that.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: Every time i'm doing that, I'm figuring out where I'm
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: gonna have a stand location that i can slide in
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: and slide out without being caught. M Speaking of the
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: hinge cutting, are you doing any other habitat work? Do
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: you plant food plots or any other betting improvements or
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: anything like that. Yeah, I'll be above. Yeah, what what
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: have you found to be some of the most successful
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: improvements you've made? You know, I'm interested in like a
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: specific food plot, how you plan it, or like a
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 1: specific instance of a betting cover improvement. Um, any unique
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: example you can share with us that was really effective. Yeah,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: you know, with food plots, I found that if we've
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: got farmers and farmer ground and that's what they do
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: for living, they're really really good at it. Uh. We
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: all want to do little food plots here and there,
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: and and a lot of them never make it to
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: maturity because you know you're going in and putting putting
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: a variety of something in there that that the deer
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: really like, and they hammer it and it's gone before
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: the season never gets there, uh or it never makes maturity.
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 1: What I like to do with food plots is is
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: I will have the farmer, whatever he's planning in my field,
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: I'll have him plant the same thing, same variety in
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 1: my food plot, and for the whole season they've got
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: you know, let's let's say there's you know I've got
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: Let's say I've got a two acre food plot and
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: there's there's sixty acres that the farmers got. Well, I
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 1: wanted to be the same thing. So when the deer
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: and there, they've got sixty two acres of beans. Well,
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: when the farmer takes his out, I still have beans
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 1: because they didn't go in and just devour mind because
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: it was the only beans there. So I feel like
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: that's really important. I have food when you're done, and
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: when he takes his out and you're the only even town. True,
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: that's a nice position of being too. When you, like
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: you said, when you're the only game in town, you
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden can pull in a whole lot
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: more dear and really focus that dear travel I imagine two.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: Would that mean the case? Do you specifically plan some
• 1:12:15
  Speaker 1: of your hunts or some of your hunting strategy around
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 1: when you know the crops are gonna come out? Like
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: do you stay out of certain areas because you know
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: that this spot is gonna be a lot better once
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: the rest of the crops come out. I don't know
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: that I I necessarily stay out of them, but but you
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: can sure see the difference if you know, if if
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: you got standing corn and you know they're so you
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: got three acres of standing corn all the way around you,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: whether it's yours or the neighbors, you know, it's real
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: hard to find deer when they can walk out in the
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: the middle of that cornfield disappear. So yeah, that groceries
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: have a lot to do with with my hunting strategy.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: I mean, you got you gotta know where they're going
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: to feed, where they're going to bed uh and and
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: groceries are there, and what you know what they're looking for.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: You know, early in the fall, they're they're probably not
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: going to be on the cereal crops are gonna be
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: out on green and and we always plant clover, and
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: and you know we've got a variety of things and
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: and no one when and when the hunt them is
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: is probably very crucial. So what does your what's the
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: timeline look like? Then? It sounds like you focus on
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: green early, clover early, and then how does that shift
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: throughout the rest of the season, Uh, once it frosts
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: and and and you know if he gets you know,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: snow covered, unless unless the clover is really tall, they're
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: they're probably not going to hit it that hard. And
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: you know, it gets cold, and they go they go
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: to the corn and beans. Uh. Just and and I
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: and I know there's a you know, a ton of
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 1: different food plots and providers out there that that they
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: all have a you know, they're particular thing and ne
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: Brassicas and all of that. Uh. And you you know
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: the other thing is you can sit back and scouting
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: kind of kind of watch and know what they're doing
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: when Yeah, speaking of scouting, and it sounds like you
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: do a lot of long distance scouting. I think you
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that you don't run a lot of trail cameras.
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: Why is that because I'm older? You know what my
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: son is getting me, you know, I guess in the
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: twenty one century, and he's he's gotta be kind of
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: excited about these trail cameras, and we we had more
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: fun with him this year than than I have ever
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: had in the past. Uh, I don't know, I I
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: it's a double edged sword. It's it's really neat to
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: see all the deer. I have watched so many guys
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: booger an area because they put a camera right in
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 1: the middle of where they're gonna hunt, and then they
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: go in there three times a week to to look
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: at their their you know, pull their cards and look
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: at their their deer. And by time season gets there,
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: they've had so much pressure they leave. And I know
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: one little guy that I know we did that he
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: couldn't understand where the deer went, but he came in
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: twice a week to show me his pictures. So it's like,
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know that part. I don't that part of
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 1: it I don't like. But as conservative as I am
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: about going in and busting them and bothering them beyond trail,
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: trail cameras are really neat. But but there's something about
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: the spontanity of of like, look at that buck I've
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: never seen anywhere you're coming from. This is great, you know,
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: as opposed to, oh yeah, there's wilbur. You know here
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: it comes again. That's true. We we we recently have
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: been just talking about that. How there there's something cool
• 1:15:46
  Speaker 1: about seeing a unique buck or specific buck over and over.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: But then there's also something cool about that surprise in
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: the mystery of a new deer showing up, and you
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: kind of you can get some with one and you
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: lose some with the other. But I guess it's all
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: pretty cool and one way another. Absolutely, Hey, Sam, it's
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: getting to that time of year where deer are in
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: the process of shedding their antlers. Is there, you know
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: again observing your dear herd, Is there a time that
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: a majority of your dear shed or is there do
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: certain dear shed at the same exact time every year? Yes,
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: kind of all the above. I know certain dear will
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: will shed pretty much at the same time. But but
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: there again, you know, the amount of stress the animal
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: has during the winter makes a big difference too. For
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: a lot of the deer this year, they seem to
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: be holding onto the antlers longer because you know, we
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 1: just we just had such a mild winner that that
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: they you know, they haven't had the stress, and what
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: really happens is the testosterone level and that animal drops
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 1: and that's you know, just like when they when they
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: come out of velvet, it's the same thing for dropping
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: the antlers. So when when they come out, you know,
• 1:17:19
  Speaker 1: when they drop the antler there again they're impotent. Their
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 1: testosterone level is way low and that's what causes that
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: antler to separate and fall off. What percentage of the
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: bucks are still holding by you uh, you know reports
• 1:17:36
  Speaker 1: from from the guys around they're seeing bachelor groups and
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: and maybe still have antlers. I had one the other
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: day a couple of just a couple of days ago
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: said that that probably it might have been sev deer
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 1: in that particular group had had antlers. Um my antler
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: bucks that I have just in one lot together, there's
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: nine bucks and two of them are still carrying and
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: they're both both little bitty gays, so you know they
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: have they have any stress this winter. Yeah, It's interesting
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: how how it seems to vary so much across region,
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: the region, and even local areas too. It seems like
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: in some parts of the country I'm hearing people, me
• 1:18:19
  Speaker 1: and Dan, we're just talking a little while ago, a
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: lot of bucks still holding, and then you hear about
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 1: these other instances, whether lots of them have already dropped
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: or dropping right now. And it's one of those mysteries
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: that it's pretty it's pretty interesting how it all kind
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 1: of works. Yeah, but it it is pretty much related
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: to stress levels. If if we'd had a tiffer winter,
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that we'd have more deer or we they
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 1: ought to be about done by now dropping. Yeah, Sam,
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: looking back over the course of your your years of hunting, Um,
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: you know, we've talked about the fact that you've killed
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: three bucks. I'm sure you've killed a lot of other
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: great deer. Um. Is there anyone, whether it be one
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 1: of the ones we've already talked about or any other,
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 1: is there any deer that you've hunted and killed that
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: you can kind of pick out as the most meaningful
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: or the most memorable? And could you tell us why
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: that why that is? You know, I can probably tell
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: you more about the ones that have beat me for
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: for being in my memory and burned in I got dude,
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 1: nice deer that I killed that, Yeah, it was a
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: great memory. It was a great hunt. But probably the
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: most memorable deer that I've encountered are the ones that
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: have kicked my butt. I'll never forget him. Uh, the
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: one I told you I pulled the drag reg and
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: had him, had him coming in. I mean just he
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: was like coming in like a song. And I made
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: a ninety degree corner and he went out across the
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: CRP field. He missed the trail. And you know, I
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: will never forget that deer as long as I live.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: I had another one that was I needed. I needed
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: two steps and I this this buck was was if
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: he was an aunt. He was. He was a mid
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 1: one eighties, and it was a huge ten pointer. He
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: was gorgeous. And I needed two more steps. And he
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: stood down wind at me, and like I told you,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: I do a lot of things for my sin control.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: But he was down wind at me for for thirty
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: five minutes, and he froze up and would not come in,
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, you must have got just
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: the right amount of wind, stuck his nose in the air,
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: and I saw two little sniff sniff, and and he
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: got rigid and he just he just kind of melted
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: away backwards. I rattled that deer in I watched him
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: come in for an hour and a half and I'll
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: never forget. I went back to the truck. I took
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 1: my hunting clothes off, put them in my toe, put
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: my boot some a tout slammed them in the back
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: of the truck, and I was I was so upset,
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: and I got the truck to drive away. And now
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 1: this is really stupid. And I sat there for a minute.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: I looked up and I went, thank you Lord, that
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: was a great experience. I'll be back to get him tomorrow.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: And I never saw him again. Gorgeous dear. Wow, now
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: you've had one hell of a hunting career, right, I
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: mean you've had encounters with and and have killed dear
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: that a majority of the listeners will never see in
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: their entire life. And knowing you, I would say, and
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: then this is just an assumption that if you never
• 1:21:45
  Speaker 1: if you never shot another dear again, you would you
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: would be happy. How much attention now is on your
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: children and grandchildren. Your kids and your grandkids are the
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: best party of life. Uh, don't get you're wrong about that.
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: That one thing is I want and big ones Uh,
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: I have it. I have My oldest grandson is an
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: absolute killing machine. This kid is first of all, he
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: is so smart. He's he's way smart than his grandpa.
• 1:22:27
  Speaker 1: But he is, I mean he he is a sponge.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: Anything you tell that kid, he you know, he he
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: digests it, he goes through it, and he understands it.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: And he and he he is one of the greatest
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: hunters I've ever met. Uh. The kid is just incredible.
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: And and he's got he absolutely has ice water in
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 1: his veins. He's he has a killing machine. Uh just
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: really and and eyesight of an eagle. I mean, he's
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: just he really isn't amazing hunter and it's really fun
• 1:23:02
  Speaker 1: to watch that. And and and all the kids aren't
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: gonna hunt someone, you know, some of them don't have
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 1: that interest. Some do. But but he's got it and
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 1: he's and he's got the killer instinct for sure. Uh.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: Hunting with my son is is uh. You know. I
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 1: burned him out at a very young age when he
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: was twelve. It was cold and miserable and nasty, and
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: he wanted to go home, and I'm telling him, we're
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: deer hunters, we don't go home. Well, he went home
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: that night he said, I'll never outwich you get. And
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 1: he did that for a lot of years. And here
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: in the you know, the last half a dozen years
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 1: we've been hunting together and and this kid, you know,
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: we we got Sammy and white tailed deer the same
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: same spring. So he'll be thirty years old this spring.
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: He grew up with deer taking care of him and
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 1: and and he understands him. It's it's really a pleasure
• 1:23:55
  Speaker 1: to watch him hunt because he knows that, he understands that,
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 1: he can feel it. You can watch and it's it's just,
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: you know, I really get pleasure watching him enjoy what
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: what I one of the things that I enjoyed most
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: of my life. It's just it is a big deal.
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: You're right, Yeah, that must be pretty awesome. So I've
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 1: got I've got one final question for you, sam Um.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: Given what you do for a living and where you
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: live and kind of what you've been involved in, I
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 1: gotta imagine you've met a lot of really, really good hunters,
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: and I'm curious if if there is any common trait
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: or quality that you've seen in these very best of
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: the best hunters that you've gotten to know, what would
• 1:24:41
  Speaker 1: that common trait be I had a gay and actually
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: one of the one of the better hunters I've ever met. Uh,
• 1:24:52
  Speaker 1: he he told me once and it was and it
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 1: was a true compliment from him. But he he asked me,
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 1: he looked me right now, and he asked me, says,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: do you know what's different between you and I and
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: a lot of other hunters? And I as well, I'm
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: shorter than most of them. No, no, not that, he says.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: He says, the difference and and and I'm not I
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: don't know we're bragging myself this way, but the difference
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: in him. Let's say that anyway. And we're sitting there
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: talking about it, and he says, do you know what
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: the difference is? And I said, any I got no idea.
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: He goes, we finished the deal. He says, Lots and
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: lots of folks are gonna have opportunities. He says, you
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: have to finish. And I think that's probably probably true. Uh,
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: there's lots of opportunity out there. But if you if
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: you don't follow completely true. And that's one thing I'm
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: telling telling you about my grandson. He finishes. I mean
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 1: every time he's he's he you know, he's clear through
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: the whole thing. So, yeah, you can do all your
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: homework and do everything you need to do, but you
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 1: gotta finish. How do you become a better finisher? I
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: think that's experience. I think that's you know, spending the
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 1: time and being there and and knowing it and understanding
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: it and and you know, knowing what might happen next,
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: or just just by a twitch of a tale. Uh,
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 1: you know, all of the things. Just just yeah. I
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 1: think you have to love it. You have to be
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 1: part of it and eat it and breathe it, you know,
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: just like we are, all of us. You know, we
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 1: we did breathe it, sleep it. Uh or his Dan
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: said he was obsessed by it. You know that that's
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: all part of it. Yeah, very true, very true. The
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 1: good news when it comes to that, Dan, is that
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: you and me we've we've got hopefully plenty of time
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: to to get better. Right. That's right? Amen? So U Dan,
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: do you have any final question or thought for Sam? No?
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: Just uh, I'll tell you what. Every time I come
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: into the shop, because I I'm from Mount Pleasant and uh,
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: I went to high school with one of his daughters,
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: and uh, every time I go into the shop, This
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: is a plug for Sam and his business, but one
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: of the one of the greatest guys you'll ever meet.
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: And on top of that, he knows what he's talking
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: about for white tails. So if you get the opportunity to,
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: you know, meet Sam Claura and shake his hand, I say,
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: do it. Hopefully I'll be down there. Hopefully I'll be
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: down there soon to do just that. Seems like there's
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: a seems like you're absolutely right. So Sam, thank you
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: so much for for taking the time to do this
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: and and sharing all this insight with us. You're bet
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: this has been fun. Yeah, we enjoyed it, and and
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 1: good luck this year. Hopefully you can kill another giant.
• 1:27:54
  Speaker 1: I'll be trying. Thanks Sam, and there you go. Episode
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: number one forty one is a rap real quickly, though,
• 1:28:03
  Speaker 1: I do want to thank our partners who have made
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: this podcast possible so big thanks to sit to Gear,
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: YETI Coolers, Ozonics, Redneck Blinds, Maven Optics, Whitetail, Institute of
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 1: North America, Carbon Express and hunt Terra Maps. And finally,
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: thank you all for listening. And I've actually got to
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: meet a number of you at some recent events, and
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: I gotta tell you the wire done audience. You guys
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: are pretty legit, so thank you. Good luck out there
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 1: scouting and shop hunting, and stay wired to hunt.