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Equine Massage · Equestrian Tea Time

0:01
SPEAKER_00: Hello, everybody.
0:03
SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to another episode of Equestrian Tea Time.
0:07
SPEAKER_00: I am your host, Isabel Salas.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: Today, with my co-host, Emma Jenkinson, we have a lovely chat with Jodi of Intuitive Equine Touch.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: Jodi tells us how and why she became a certified equine massage therapist.
0:25
SPEAKER_00: She is devoted to being a safe and listening space for horses, especially school horses, the horses that so much of the horse industry is dependent upon.
0:34
SPEAKER_00: Jodi focuses her practice on trying to help these vital equine partners to feel better in body and mind.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: There are decals at the end of our recording today about how to get in touch with us.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: We are going to do a special series of podcasts called Soft Spot for School Horses.
0:52
SPEAKER_00: So if you do something special for school horses, have a special school horse story or have an opinion about school horses that you would like to discuss, we would love to have you on and talk to you about this very important topic, these very valued members of our horse industry.
1:07
SPEAKER_00: Details about that are at the end.
1:10
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting you have gated horses.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: I've done some gated horses.
1:15
SPEAKER_00: I rode walking horses on stack pads when I was in high school.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: I did four years.
1:21
SPEAKER_00: I worked for a private place that had Icelandics.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: They were so freaking cute.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: And I had about a year of experience after college with Pasafinos.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: I worked for a guy who was president of the American Pasifino Association.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
1:35
SPEAKER_00: That was fun.
1:37
SPEAKER_00: Those are tough little horses.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: Those things are strong.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: Those animals are robust.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: That's really cool that you've done gated horses.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: Gated horses will be the thing I'll go to when I can't ride the walk track canter horses.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: Yes, a lot of
1:51
SPEAKER_02: people have been suggesting I get into gated horses because of my back.
1:55
SPEAKER_02: Actually, for like 10 years, everyone who meets me is like, what about a gated horse?
1:59
SPEAKER_02: Gated horses.
2:01
SPEAKER_02: I just want to buy the misfit toys I have, and I don't need to ride them or not, and I am not always up for riding.
2:09
SPEAKER_00: The gated horses will ruin you.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: They're so smooth.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: You get on them, you're like, oh, I can't go back to a bouncy horse again.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: You'll totally get hooked once you sit on that nice, smooth cruising horse.
2:22
SPEAKER_00: It can be really hard to go back.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: So, Jodi, I'm sorry to do this.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to make you ask you again.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: Just give us a little brief information on your background with horses?
2:33
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so my background with horses, I started as a working student when I was around 10 or 11.
2:38
SPEAKER_01: I've been into horses for a little over 40 years now.
2:42
SPEAKER_01: I've owned...
2:43
SPEAKER_01: a couple different thoroughbreds, a quarter horse, a thoroughdale.
2:47
SPEAKER_01: I have, they're all rescues.
2:49
SPEAKER_01: Spotted saddle horse now is my, is my latest rescue.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: She was a nurse mare foal.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: So I got to be, I got to feed her milk and come out, be mom right from the start.
2:57
SPEAKER_01: So that was fun.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: Usually been a backyard horse owner.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: And so now, now I'm not in my backyard anymore.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: And I'm, I'm, around a couple of different barns and seen a bunch of different horses and a bunch of different owners and how everybody does different things.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: And I've seen a lot of different massage people come to the barn, chiropractors, different types of body workers.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: So I've got to just observe.
3:21
SPEAKER_01: And I've had some people work on my horse and observe some things, the way my horse would react and what does that body worker pay attention to and and that type of thing.
3:32
SPEAKER_01: So I've been a lot more of an observer.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: I've always done some body work myself just because I liked to.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: And I would notice, not trained when I was a child, but at least I would notice, oh, this horse looks sore.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: Let me see if I could rub it.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: Let me see if I can just help it.
3:50
SPEAKER_01: But now I'm
3:53
SPEAKER_00: trained.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm certified.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: And what program did you go through?
3:57
SPEAKER_00: There's a
3:59
SPEAKER_01: bunch of different ones.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh, there are so many.
4:02
SPEAKER_01: So I went to Equisage in New York and they were wonderful.
4:05
SPEAKER_01: They're called Equisage New York, but they're actually in Connecticut.
4:08
SPEAKER_01: And they were lovely.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: It was a small class and you work on rescue horses and you really cover a lot of material in a short amount of time.
4:15
SPEAKER_01: And the more you can learn on your own before or after.
4:19
SPEAKER_01: is going to add to that.
4:20
SPEAKER_01: Also, I'm not certified yet, but I'm also practicing the Masterson method.
4:25
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: That's my favorite.
4:27
SPEAKER_00: That is a very long program.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: That's a substantial program.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: Pretty costly, too.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that's why I'm not certified yet.
4:34
SPEAKER_01: Plus, there's a lot of traveling involved.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: There's not a lot of classes in New Hampshire.
4:39
SPEAKER_01: And as soon as they have one in New Hampshire, I'm going.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: But that's lovely.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: And I have...
4:43
SPEAKER_01: a friend who certified Masterson Method and so had her out for my horse.
4:49
SPEAKER_01: And I just love it.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: I even just love the barn that I'm at.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: I mentioned this and that was my first introduction to what I wanted to do for massage because it's just so gentle and it really gets into the nervous system and it's all about being above the brace level.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: So it's just any nervous horse that's just wonderful for.
5:07
SPEAKER_01: And so I asked the barn that I'm at, would you mind if I 10 or 12 school horses.
5:12
SPEAKER_01: So it's been about a year now.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: I've been working on all of them.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: Oh, nice.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: And so I see, oh my gosh, the difference in the release.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: And so when you talk about you noticing that their horses were just bracing against it or not wanting to stand still, oh, this is the modality that's wonderful.
5:32
SPEAKER_01: And so to know more than one, So the Massachusetts method is not only just for to calm the nervous system down.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: It also has a lovely rate, a lovely gentle range of motion that I love.
5:45
SPEAKER_01: So to incorporate that with the regular, um, body work, the regular massage is just a great way to do it.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: So before I started to record, we were talking about how we came to want to do massage differently than how we see a lot of people applying it with horses tied up tight on cross ties and restrained and one massage therapist showing up and having to get through a whole string of horses and it not being a very personalized experience.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: And as you said, horses are not really listened to.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: Like the feedback from the horses isn't really part of the process.
6:17
SPEAKER_00: A lot of times when you go to a big bar, and see a bunch of somebody coming to do a bunch of horses in one day.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: And that was kind of my reason for, even though I have used massage therapists, I've used vet chiropractors, you know, a lot of times the horses, my two personal horses didn't want to stand for it.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: You know, the lady who was coming is perfectly nice and perfectly qualified.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: And my horses didn't want to stand there and cooperate with it.
6:43
SPEAKER_00: And I was having to ply them with a bag full of alfalfa and paying a lot of money for this.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: So Myself and the other employee at my barn, luckily like me, she likes to take online courses and learn stuff.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: So she signed up for a very small massage module from someone online.
6:59
SPEAKER_00: I can't even remember the name right now.
7:00
SPEAKER_00: That's not very nice of me.
7:03
SPEAKER_00: There's a few good ones.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: So we just started doing a few basic techniques.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: And very quickly, my horses were way happier with what I was doing than they were when the massage lady came.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: And it was a huge boost for our, you know, as the training tool for our personal relationships that the horses felt like, as you said, I was listening to them.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: They preferred that I do something here and not there.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, okay, I will do something here.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: One of the techniques in the course I took was just about kind of rocking the horse back and forth on the withers.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: And I went from doing that to kind of just gently rubbing them on the neck.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: And my huge, my older horse is a 17 one hand Dutch harness horse.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: One of these monstrous elephant size creatures with a big, huge, huge Oh, he's pretty, yes.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: he articulates at the atlas back and forth.
8:23
SPEAKER_00: So I will kind of move down his neck and he will use the pressure point that I supply to start to rub himself.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: And he bends towards me.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: And it was very different from when I had the massage lady come.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: So I was like, well, I guess this is something I should be doing myself as opposed to paying somebody a very substantial amount of money to come do my both horses.
8:47
SPEAKER_00: And my younger thoroughbred I've a four-year-old who just came off the track this past November.
8:52
SPEAKER_00: He's really tight physically, super, super, super tight.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: And he really doesn't like the massage lady a lot.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: Not that she does anything terrible, but he doesn't like being groped just as a baseline.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: He does not.
9:04
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you need to earn the right to touch him.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: You know, he's sensitive about just even putting fly spray on.
9:10
SPEAKER_00: You have to be polite if he wants you to wait and slow down.
9:13
SPEAKER_00: As you mentioned earlier about the energy, you know, if I go to turn out in the kind of rushed and frantic, he will walk away from me.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: And I have just mitts with fly spray on and he'd be like, don't touch me when you're like that.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, all right.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: And he'll walk out and he'll come back in.
9:31
SPEAKER_00: And I'll be like, okay, can I touch you gently?
9:33
SPEAKER_00: And I'll be like, okay.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: So it's been very interesting.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: People sign up for massage classes, but mostly people were taking massage courses because they wanted to begin and go do massage and earn money.
9:44
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, well, I'm not going to do that.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: So why would I take a massage class?
9:49
SPEAKER_00: So I was very surprised when we took this very tiny little course with just a few little things.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: And my horses responded so fast.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, okay.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: Well, they're reading your intention.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: A stranger coming in, like I said before, you know, has a few, a few six horses to do.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: And they're like, I got to get through horse number one to get to horse number two.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: And I have so many, they're, they're on like a, Usually they're only lasting an hour.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: You walked into your horse's stall and said, I really want to make you feel better.
10:18
SPEAKER_01: And I would like to listen to you.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: And so it's the approach.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: And also when you have, and you have more than one personal horse or work with more than one horse, people who are sensitive and I feel should have the ability to adjust your energy and touch level with every horse that you see.
10:36
SPEAKER_01: Because like you said, the thoroughbred is really sensitive.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: And so you wouldn't walk right in there and start getting deep into his mind.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: especially if it's painful.
10:44
SPEAKER_01: Some of them just really want you to just put your hand on them for a minute.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: Just relax.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: Just breathe together.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: Let them just know that you're here to listen.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: You're here to help them feel better.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: And most often I see people aren't holding space.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: This is actually, I believe, a healing space for your horse to feel better.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: They're not designed to actually, they weren't, they're not designed to carry us.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: And so we ask them to do things with their body that they wouldn't do in the wild.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: And I know they go through things in the wild too, but if we're putting them in that position and making them sore, it's up to us to make them feel better.
11:19
SPEAKER_01: That
11:19
SPEAKER_00: is the big thing.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: So I'm wondering if what I need to do is talk to my massage lady and have this kind of conversation with her.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: How I got started with my horses is just by letting them be looped and not trying to restrain them to a place.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: My thoroughbred, I literally, I closed all the drop doors in the barn and just let them wander loose up and down the aisle.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: And I wound up with his right hindquarters being the place where he really wanted me to rub him on and from there I was able then I found that you know horses will often have like the the wither spot where you scratch him at the withers and they'll do the little full thing that spot on him is actually like halfway up his neck even though he's a thoroughbred like I can feel the crust of his neck the whole thing feels the top line of his neck is not not only tight but it's very insubstantial I can pretty much put my hand and feel my fingers through his neck on the other side so he really really liked to be working the nuchal ligament area And this was all stuff that he said that he liked.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: I kind of hunted around with my little strip hair groomer, my little rubber combing tool.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: And I started just nudging him until he got the right spot.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, oh, yes, yes, yes.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: And then from there, move on out, which I don't think is something a professional massage person is going to feel comfortable doing.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: No, no.
12:33
SPEAKER_01: And there's a safety.
12:34
SPEAKER_01: There's two different trains of thought there.
12:36
SPEAKER_01: One school will say, put them on cross ties, but loosely they can release.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: and communicate to you.
12:42
SPEAKER_01: So you, you, if he wants to release by putting his head down or like you said, he, he reached around and like looked at you and, and
12:49
SPEAKER_00: yeah,
12:50
SPEAKER_01: if they can't do that, then what's the point?
12:52
SPEAKER_01: And he's trying to release the muscles.
12:54
SPEAKER_01: I don't usually cross tie them.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: I would just take, I have a long, I have a probably lead rope.
12:58
SPEAKER_01: I have a long, a long lead rope that I would put on and I don't, If I do them in the stall, I'll put it through the bar and hold the other end or tie it really loose somewhere so the horse can move, but I can grab it if I need to.
13:11
SPEAKER_01: They have to be able to move their body and communicate.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: So when you work with the horse the first time then, let's say it's a horse you've never seen and you don't know, how do you go about it?
13:20
SPEAKER_01: So I'll go with my energy really low.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: So like I said before, they're looking at you.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: walking down the aisle and they're reading you from the second you even walk in their presence.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: I'll just walk in with a nice calm energy.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: If the owner is there and usually I'll have them, I'll strike a conversation with the owner.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: While I'm talking to the owner, I'm actually like inviting the horse into my station.
13:40
SPEAKER_01: I do the shoulder thing and just I'm standing a little bit off so they feel like I'm not directing my energy to putting them away.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: I want to know all about him.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: You know, what does he...
13:51
SPEAKER_01: And while I'm striking the conversation with the owner, he's checking me out and looking around and I'll say, well, what does he get for turnout?
13:58
SPEAKER_01: What are you noticing?
13:59
SPEAKER_01: Why did you call me?
14:00
SPEAKER_01: What do you notice?
14:03
SPEAKER_01: How does he usually stand crooked?
14:05
SPEAKER_01: Is he standing straight?
14:06
SPEAKER_01: How is he out in the turnout area when he doesn't know you're looking at him?
14:12
SPEAKER_01: Is he standing crooked?
14:14
SPEAKER_01: What looks tight?
14:15
SPEAKER_01: Is he off at the trot?
14:18
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes they'll be like, no, he's not lame, but he feels weird.
14:21
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's important.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: That's important information to have that they normally don't bring up because, I don't know, a lot of people are taught to not pay attention to the small signals.
14:32
SPEAKER_01: And if it's not lame, then leave it alone.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: But that's what massage is about.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: That's what body work is about, is to catch that in the beginning before it becomes something big.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: And so I have this quick conversation with them.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: You know, the owner can point and show me stuff.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: I'll walk over and put my hand on her shoulder and just slowly go into it.
14:50
SPEAKER_01: Slowly put my hand on her shoulder and to do so, let them smell my hands.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: Let them see if I have any cookies.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: Just touch them for a minute.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: And part of the evaluation is they'll do like a quick hands-on.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: You can check all around their body just to see if there's any sore spots.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: And while I'm doing that, I'm adjusting myself to their level of energy that they want and their level of touch.
15:14
SPEAKER_01: And they'll tell you right away.
15:15
SPEAKER_01: You can tell when you put your fingers on and get through the muscles that they'll flinch away or they don't want it.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: Some of them will just lean in immediately.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: And so that's how I build rapport in the beginning.
15:27
SPEAKER_01: And then usually I'll just go into it and they're fine, but I go in slow.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: And that's why I take a little bit more time and I don't rush through it.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: And so since I'm small, I don't...
15:41
SPEAKER_01: A small business, I should say.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm not packing in six horses.
15:46
SPEAKER_01: I'm doing one with time for another one, maybe.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: And I don't care how long the session is.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: I'm there for that horse.
15:53
SPEAKER_01: And that's what makes me happy.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: And that's my goal.
15:57
SPEAKER_01: And so they feel that.
15:59
SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
16:00
SPEAKER_01: They really all
16:01
SPEAKER_00: do feel that.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: Nice.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: So thanks for sharing all that.
16:05
SPEAKER_00: So I used to have a co-worker I worked with a few years ago who got a master's and certified.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: And she was a driver.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: That program that I worked at also had driving horses.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: We had a team of Dutch harness horses.
16:21
SPEAKER_00: And she used to drive...
16:22
SPEAKER_00: She used to drive a single pony in combined driving competition, and she had this one show pony who was great, except he kept going lame.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: And so the massage lady showed her, she's like, there's just this one little spot, he's got this little knot in his hamstring or something, and you just said you rub the pony here, and then he would be sound, and she could take him and show him.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: So that's what really got her into the massage.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: She had this perfectly nice little driving pony who, you know, you don't rub his butt, he's going to be lame.
16:51
SPEAKER_00: You do rub his butt, you can go and show him.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: home and it's fine.
16:53
SPEAKER_00: So she's like, okay, massage is cool.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: Do you have any stories about the changes that you've noticed in horses, either both for the good?
17:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm wondering about times when you've been able to use massage and make a big difference.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: And then also maybe when the massage has also not been able to make a difference.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: I have one example that does both.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: I
17:18
SPEAKER_01: like it.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:20
UNKNOWN: Yeah.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: And I have a soft spot for school horses.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: And I'll just, I'll say that right up front is because they're the first horses that kids learn how to ride on.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of them are the backbone of a business and they don't have all the extra money for like, let's do massage once a month on every, on all the 12 school horses type of thing.
17:43
SPEAKER_01: So that, so that's where I got into it.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: So I get to practice on the school horses, this one school horse.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: They have taken her to the vet multiple times.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: They thought she had an eye problem.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: She kept having something block up in her eye, would leak all the time.
18:00
SPEAKER_01: And you can just see that she's got a headache and everything is tight.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: And they've brought her.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: They spent a lot of money.
18:06
SPEAKER_01: They took her to a specialized eye doctor.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: Multiple vets looked at her.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: All different kinds of eye ointments.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing wrong with their eye.
18:16
SPEAKER_01: It's something physical.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: And the latest vet said it's probably a form of head shakers or there's some kind of blockage somewhere or whatever.
18:24
SPEAKER_01: And I just fell in love with her.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: And I got to ride her.
18:27
SPEAKER_01: They let me bring out trail lessons on her.
18:31
SPEAKER_01: And she was just the sweetest horse ever.
18:33
SPEAKER_01: And my path with her was, if you're going to carry me and let me ride, because my horse is lean, if you're going to carry me and let me ride, I'm going to make sure that you feel good.
18:44
SPEAKER_01: And so...
18:45
SPEAKER_01: I did multiple, multiple sessions on her and I noticed what did work and what doesn't always work.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: So just loosening up the TMJ and all around the Atlas and the whole neck would free up her face to not have that pressure on her head.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: And I also did a lot of like the jaw muscles and all the face fascia.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: So I learned like, okay, that, That really helped her.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: And then she needed less medicine.
19:18
SPEAKER_01: And so I started having flare-ups once in a while.
19:20
SPEAKER_01: And then I started to dig a little bit deeper.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: And she loved all the masses and hind end points and everything.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: And I realized the connection between the left hind and the right front.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: Because as soon as I loosened up her left hind, it was so much easier to loosen up the rest of her neck and her head.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: And she would have less flare-ups.
19:43
SPEAKER_01: There's still flare-ups.
19:44
SPEAKER_01: And the less I do, the more flare-ups there are.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: So there's going to be, you know, there's a recommendation for a chiropractor.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: It could be like C2 is out.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: I've read a lot of that.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: A lot of that can cause some head shaker things.
19:57
SPEAKER_01: So they're going to continue to look.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: But that was my this works and doesn't work story.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: So you can get into it and see, okay, this is working.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: But after a few sessions, if it's not resolving, then...
20:11
SPEAKER_01: There's a deeper issue.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: There's a deeper underlying issue.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: So I'm just basically helping her with pain management to feel better, but I'm not able to address the deeper issue.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: It's probably chiropractic work, or there could be some deeper issue.
20:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well,
20:28
SPEAKER_00: the conclusion that I've drawn from watching some of the anatomists that are doing the necropsy anatomists online is that a lot of horses have...
20:37
SPEAKER_00: injuries that they might have got a long time ago that is just stuff that one we can't even find and that we could never fix and you only find when you necropsy the horse like uh right so only when you peel the skin off and take the horse apart do you find out that they have extra things growing things they all have like
20:57
SPEAKER_02: broken ribs
20:59
SPEAKER_00: And that makes me think
21:00
SPEAKER_02: about when we kick them in the stump.
21:02
SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
21:04
SPEAKER_02: When people kick them hard and I'm like, oh my gosh, they've all got rib fractures that healed.
21:10
SPEAKER_02: Sorry, that's all.
21:12
SPEAKER_00: No, it's okay.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: That's exactly what I mean.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: A lot of times, we can help, but we might not know what the problem is, even if you send it for an$8,000 nuclear scan at some big vet college.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: Still, possibly, you can't see everything perfectly.
21:31
SPEAKER_00: We're not up to Star Trek-level body scanning quite yet.
21:35
SPEAKER_00: A lot of times, you can help stuff, but not fix it because it's possibly so profoundly broken that, uh, You have to take the horse apart and put it back together again to really fix it.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: But those anatomous spines sound amazing.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: I mean, bones growing into each other.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: You know, profound tissue and fascial damage where the horse will have a huge, somewhere in their body, just a huge bunch of fascia and muscle all glommed together because something was injured at some point.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: And then that pulls on everything else.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: You know, I never got headaches in my life until I started to get fasciitis and my feet.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: And then the pain in my feet, I was like, oh, that's a migraine.
22:18
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that really sucks.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: But until I got to an age where my fascia started to get so old and so brittle and dry, I'm like, oh, now I feel the connection of the fascia.
22:30
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I do.
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, then
22:32
SPEAKER_01: you're should I ask you a question?
22:34
SPEAKER_01: Have you had body work?
22:35
SPEAKER_01: Do you do body work for yourself?
22:36
SPEAKER_01: Like, do you go for a massage or anything?
22:39
SPEAKER_00: So, I have done Seldenkrais in the past.
22:41
SPEAKER_00: I, right now, am going to Stretch Lab, which is where you lay down and they stretch you.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: And that is, feels fantastic, but is very interesting to feel like, so I've worked with, one of the people I've worked with a lot, Mary Warnless, because I took six of her teacher training clinics, which are three-day clinics, and then I rode with her an, I don't know, 23-day clinic.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: She had introduced me to the Feldenkrais and the Alexander Technique.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: And so I had started doing kind of stuff like that.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: So when I go to do the stretch lab now, and she stretches me here, here, here, and there, I can feel how...
23:19
SPEAKER_00: On one side of me, all of the fascia connects on my left side, on my short side.
23:25
SPEAKER_00: And on my right side, it's a lot more like I'll have one body structure that's doing all the work.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: And a lot of other parts are just not involved.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: So we'll find one little part that's just really tight.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: Whereas when she goes to stretch that on the left, I can feel the stress of the stretch being transmitted to a much...
23:46
SPEAKER_00: broader area of my body.
23:49
SPEAKER_00: The Feldenkrais was interesting when I had the lady work on me, but I don't know that I was taking much...
23:55
SPEAKER_00: You've got to learn something.
23:57
SPEAKER_00: You've got to take something away with it that you can go forward with.
24:00
SPEAKER_00: So it felt great, but I wasn't coming away with anything I could use.
24:05
SPEAKER_00: It did make me feel different, but Feldenkrais people...
24:10
SPEAKER_00: Or do they charge?
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that stuff is great.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, but yes, all the practice, I've worked with three different practitioners and they were all very expensive.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean, T
24:20
SPEAKER_02: team, right.
24:22
SPEAKER_02: And T touch and that's balding
24:24
SPEAKER_00: for horses.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: Oh, wonderful.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: So is anybody, is anybody certifying tea touch practitioners or anything
24:34
SPEAKER_02: right now?
24:34
SPEAKER_02: Not that I know of, but I have not looked into it.
24:37
SPEAKER_02: I am friends with someone who co-wrote a book with her and she's still practicing as well.
24:42
SPEAKER_02: And she's just doing like free workshops on essential oils and tea touch.
24:47
SPEAKER_02: And it seems like they're still out and about and they definitely pass it on to me.
24:54
UNKNOWN: Yeah.
24:54
SPEAKER_02: I
24:55
SPEAKER_01: would love to be certified by T-Touch.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: Ooh, yes, Emma, Emma.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so first of all, Emma, why haven't you told us about this friend and how do we get her on our podcast here?
25:04
SPEAKER_00: So tell her she has to come.
25:06
SPEAKER_02: I've been thinking about it and yes, we absolutely will.
25:09
SPEAKER_02: She also breeds Arabians and one of her babies, I don't think is owned by her, but also competed in Tevis Cup.
25:18
SPEAKER_02: She's big into endurance as well.
25:20
SPEAKER_02: Ooh, she's an endurance person.
25:21
SPEAKER_02: Ooh,
25:22
SPEAKER_00: cool.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: Jodi, you've given me a great idea for another podcast topic.
25:28
SPEAKER_00: Soft spot for school horses is a really great discussion topic.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: I wonder if we could find some other people who do special things with school horses.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: We could do a special series of podcast people who do stuff for school horses.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: School horses deserve a spotlight for sure.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: They do.
25:46
SPEAKER_00: They do.
25:47
SPEAKER_00: That's
25:49
SPEAKER_01: actually what I'm hoping to do with my small little side business here is I I'd like to set up a program for school horses.
25:56
SPEAKER_01: And the reason why I asked you about if you've had body work is because I've had some neck and back injuries.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: And so it took me four years to get back to where I could even get on my horse.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: And that's what I noticed actually.
26:12
SPEAKER_01: That's why I was like, all right.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: I used to think massage isn't going to really help until I experienced it.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: that the massage person I go to helps me more than the physical therapist that I went to.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: And then I started seeing a rolfer.
26:25
SPEAKER_01: And so between those two different people, I am able to do just about anything I want again.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: So that really got me to be like, I think horses need this too.
26:35
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm so, I have some issues.
26:37
SPEAKER_02: I'm sure as Bo knows, but I broke my back.
26:41
SPEAKER_02: I have like an inch difference in my legs and I'm kind of in and out of a wheelchair with a cane and trying to get back in the style, right?
26:48
SPEAKER_02: And I just got to say, yeah, I spent the past two years struggling so much.
26:53
SPEAKER_02: And I went to the chiropractor subscription.
26:57
SPEAKER_02: I did two years of PT twice a week.
27:01
SPEAKER_02: And they were just hurting me.
27:02
SPEAKER_02: And actually, I found a massage therapist who's amazing.
27:05
SPEAKER_02: And I can't live without her now.
27:07
SPEAKER_02: And I see her once or twice a week.
27:09
SPEAKER_02: And I am getting back in the saddle a little bit.
27:13
SPEAKER_02: But more than that, I'm just so much better off.
27:15
SPEAKER_02: And she does Reiki and some other...
27:18
SPEAKER_02: course synchrony healing and now she's been uh helping she's been doing some of that on the horses because my mare has mystery illness it's just been amazing but it all i'm so sympathetic to the horses since i'm in pain and i struggle to move around i can't imagine having a backpack to deal with as well
27:37
SPEAKER_01: i'm sorry to hear about your
27:38
SPEAKER_02: injuries oh thank you well it's really made me sensitive to the horses a better trainer and i really enjoy riding when i can But it's all a part of it.
27:48
SPEAKER_02: It's all a journey.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: It's going to get better.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm 54 and I threw my back out.
27:53
SPEAKER_00: My back started going out on me in my 30s.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: And somebody suggested I try sleeping in a recliner.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: And I have now been sleeping in a recliner for 20 years.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: Cannot lay flat on a bed.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: As long as I sleep in the recliner, I'm fine.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: And I know people who've had back surgery and really regret it big time.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, friends of friends.
28:14
SPEAKER_00: Like you can't undo that stuff once they...
28:17
SPEAKER_00: screw something together or do whatever stuff.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: So I do know that modern medicine definitely has some stuff messed up and neck and back pain for sure.
28:24
SPEAKER_00: They're looking at all the bony parts and not all the soft tissue connections.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's what the medical system is really focused on because they need quantifiable things.
28:34
SPEAKER_00: They need to have everything quantifiable and manipulating fascia is something that is difficult to quantify.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: I'm still very grateful that I did not ever get back surgery.
28:43
SPEAKER_00: You know, my back has limits.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: Like I don't ever travel because I can't sleep in a hotel bed, but I'm in no pain and I work just fine.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: It's 94 degrees out today.
28:53
SPEAKER_00: I was out hauling rocks.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: I've been composting some manure, so I was out shoveling some of that stuff and around.
28:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm crawling around on the ice all winter because I live in New Hampshire.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: Boy, do we get ice here.
29:05
SPEAKER_00: If I had gone to a doctor when my back started crapping out like that, I imagine I would not be as mobile as I am now.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: Grateful I didn't have insurance when I was 34.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: It possibly would have led me the wrong way.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: So I don't want to hold you here forever.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: Emma and I had kind of started this podcast as a, we really wanted to complain about working student positions and stuff.
29:27
SPEAKER_00: The horse industry is full of, you know, I have been, I lived in New Jersey for 20 years and was front row to some amazing scandals, but that was before smartphones and before people were talking.
29:38
SPEAKER_00: And now more of those things are coming out.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: People at least get suspended.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: Not that it really changes much, especially at the upper level type barns, but at least there is some progress in making stuff better.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: But yes, we quickly went from complaining about things to, you know, wanting to promote things that we believe in and like.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: So when you popped up on my Facebook feed and I was thinking about how I had just started trying to do the massage of myself and it had seemed so much more productive than I was actually paying someone I was like I really should get a massage person on the podcast and talk to them about that experience so yeah we're thinking very much along the my experience was the same that yes the professional massage people are it's nice but I haven't had the horses benefit from it much I haven't doesn't seem like it's doing much and my personal horses don't like it they're not happy with it and they were way happier when I in a very uneducated way tried to have them tell me what what would be helpful to them.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: And that was way more helpful than trying to get somebody in who was an expert.
30:40
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, huh,
30:41
SPEAKER_01: okay, well.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: So if you can combine that, have a little bit more knowledge with the muscle groups, and if you want to do it yourself, or find someone who wants to love every horse they see.
30:50
SPEAKER_01: I know.
30:52
SPEAKER_01: Or just has a quiet energy.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: Just has a quiet energy and can do.
30:56
SPEAKER_01: There are people out there.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: I've had people work on my horse that they're out there.
31:00
SPEAKER_01: They have different goals.
31:01
SPEAKER_01: That's all.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: yeah gotcha cool all right Emma
31:05
SPEAKER_02: how about you do you have anything else to add I just think you're great and I would love to stay in touch actually and I love your idea about helping school horses and I have a few of those that I have I just have so many questions I've been learning been like experimenting with muscle testing on the horses and then doing my friend doing Reiki and things on them and I'm so interested and it sounds like you're a bit of an expert so
31:32
SPEAKER_01: yeah I always have stuff.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: I'm always going to learn, but I would love to stay in touch.
31:36
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that would be very cool.
31:37
SPEAKER_02: But thank you so much for coming on.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: It was a pleasure to meet both of you.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
31:43
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for joining us again, everybody.
31:45
SPEAKER_00: If you are looking for help with your equine, Emma Jenkinson is currently taking clients.
31:50
SPEAKER_00: You can find her at Emma Jenkinson Dressage on the internet or on her Facebook page.
31:57
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening.
31:58
SPEAKER_00: Catch you next time.
31:59
SPEAKER_00: We are going to do a special series.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: We have entitled Soft Spot for School Horses.
32:05
SPEAKER_00: We are going to be talking to people who do interesting things for school horses to help them feel better and to help them be happier.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: If you have a special story about a school horse or a special service you provide for school horses or have anything interesting that you would like to say about school horses and the role they play in our industry, reach out to us.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: You can find me on Facebook.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: There aren't too many Isabos on Facebook.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: I-S-A-B-E-A-U Middle name, Zara Beth, Z-A-R-A-B-E-T-H.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: Last name, Solace, S-O-L-A-C-E.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: Put a link in the show notes.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: Also, reach out to myself or Emma Jenkinson, and we would love to have you come on our show.
32:45
SPEAKER_00: We love talking to horse people.
32:48
SPEAKER_00: Have a good day.