Latest / DEADBUG SAYS / Lust Crimes Ep2 w/Jasmin St. Claire

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Lust Crimes Ep2 w/Jasmin St. Claire · DEADBUG SAYS

0:03
[SPEAKER_04]: You are about to partake in a dead bug, podcast.
0:08
[SPEAKER_04]: But remember you scalli wags, my content ain't for the fainter heart, and it certainly isn't for children.
0:18
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you're ready to proceed, I would ask if you, one thing, that is to dim the lights, shut that pleasure given me the yours up.
0:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Smoke em if you got him.
0:33
[SPEAKER_04]: and enjoy.
0:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Lust, something we all experience at one point in our lives, a feeling of being at a
0:57
[SPEAKER_04]: We are no longer in control of our common sense, addictive, often fleeting, a selfish emotion that can lead to shame and regret.
1:12
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a wise man who once said that lust has no horns, but make no mistake.
1:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Lust is the devil.
1:56
[SPEAKER_04]: They used their bodies.
2:02
[UNKNOWN]: They used them.
2:03
[UNKNOWN]: They told them they'd die.
2:23
[SPEAKER_04]: And that was the co-ed killer, Ed Kempa.
2:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Ed, to his friends, I suppose.
2:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Sharing with us all a little relationship advice, I guess.
2:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Although it's hard to take someone seriously who had sex with his mother's severed head, and welcome to another family-friendly installment of Lost Crimes.
2:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And as always, I'm here with my co-host, Jasmine St. Clair.
2:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Jasmine, how are you?
2:51
[SPEAKER_05]: Good, how are you?
2:53
[SPEAKER_04]: slightly better now.
2:55
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm really excited because we have a tasty show ahead of us.
3:00
[SPEAKER_04]: With two very different but equally tragic cases, and one of those is yours.
3:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, Jazz, this is Spencer's Killin' Me.
3:08
[SPEAKER_04]: You're gonna share this with us?
3:10
[SPEAKER_05]: The Hollywood Obsession Murder, Amy Harwick.
3:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Which when you first mentioned doing that, I thought, it's been done a lot, but I don't know.
3:18
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I'll give you the benefit of that Wednesday.
3:20
[SPEAKER_04]: We bring to the table.
3:21
[SPEAKER_04]: And while researching it and watching some news program on YouTube, I don't know where I popped you on the screen talking about it, and I was shocked to find out that she was a good friend of yours.
3:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Which means that what we're about to hear isn't just the story that everyone knows, but it's the person behind it.
3:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Which I believe will be something much closer and more intimate, which will give a different perspective on the person behind it.
3:45
[SPEAKER_04]: And I gotta say I'm really looking forward to this.
3:47
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you.
3:48
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm very excited too because I think a lot of these other places that covered it didn't come at it from a personal perspective.
3:56
[SPEAKER_05]: And I know you can't get your motions wrapped up in these types of things.
3:59
[SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, behind these murderers, there's a human being.
4:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Which is something that in this job at least we ought to forget about.
4:07
[SPEAKER_05]: And this happened on Valentine's night.
4:10
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I just, it really, it worked me.
4:12
[SPEAKER_05]: Valentine's
4:15
[SPEAKER_04]: which is the significant date for lovers, but also for the lonely.
4:19
[SPEAKER_04]: So how did you meet Amy?
4:21
[SPEAKER_05]: About 2004, I started modeling for a company called BC Rich Guitars, and they collaborated with a company that makes the best.
4:30
[SPEAKER_05]: Guitar case is this company, coffin case.
4:33
[SPEAKER_05]: Amy was also a coffin case girl, which is what they refer to as the models.
4:37
[SPEAKER_05]: And she and I hit it off right away.
4:39
[SPEAKER_05]: We were like photo shoots, events, and parties, fashion shows.
4:44
[SPEAKER_05]: We would always talk and hang out because she was also into heavy metal, which I thought was cool, like an actual non-poser metal chain.
4:53
[SPEAKER_05]: So, at the time, I was dating someone she didn't like, and she was super perceptive about what was wrong with this guy.
5:01
[SPEAKER_05]: And I remember telling her, I said, you need to be a therapist.
5:04
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's what I came out here to do.
5:05
[SPEAKER_05]: And I knew she was smart.
5:08
[SPEAKER_05]: I knew she was doing stuff outside of modeling, like going to school.
5:13
[SPEAKER_05]: But this is a girl that,
5:16
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, she was around Hollywood, very likable.
5:19
[SPEAKER_05]: She wasn't from LA.
5:20
[SPEAKER_05]: She was from Pennsylvania.
5:22
[SPEAKER_04]: The keystone stain.
5:23
[SPEAKER_05]: So coming out was quite a culture shock.
5:25
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm sure.
5:26
[SPEAKER_05]: And you hear all these stories about LA.
5:28
[SPEAKER_05]: But, and she had some very troubled relationships as well.
5:32
[SPEAKER_05]: But nothing on this level that she had with, uh, with Gareth Perth House.
5:37
[SPEAKER_04]: OK, let's not get through far ahead of ourselves.
5:39
[SPEAKER_04]: And we'll take it back to when you'd first met her.
5:42
[SPEAKER_04]: And then move on from there.
5:43
[SPEAKER_05]: Talk about the slew of relationships first, because that's important.
5:47
[SPEAKER_05]: I remember at one point there was one guy from a band called Spine Shank.
5:51
[SPEAKER_05]: She was dating.
5:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Spine Shank as in the slant-eyed variety?
5:56
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a crappy name for a band, come on.
5:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Sounds like a chiropractic service for Asians, whether any Chinese in this band by chance.
6:04
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't think so.
6:07
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't really look at them, because it's one of those bands you just don't really care about.
6:13
[SPEAKER_05]: So I know there are problems with that.
6:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Problems with the spine, chink.
6:17
[SPEAKER_04]: So you ladies were out socializing.
6:20
[SPEAKER_04]: And I've seen pitches use guys out socializing, and you know, you pretty odd.
6:25
[SPEAKER_05]: And then, you know, we're kicking back having the younger myisters, and then more and more it comes out.
6:29
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm thinking of myself for such a smart, pretty girl.
6:32
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, what is it?
6:34
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, why would she even hang around this loser?
6:37
[SPEAKER_05]: Then time goes on, it's another jackass.
6:40
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm seeing a pattern, but I understood it because what most people feel failed to realize, and I think I told you is prior to recording, is in a place like LA,
6:52
[SPEAKER_05]: You have beautiful girls doing non-traditional jobs, go-go-dancing, posing for playboy, modeling, and guys see you as sex objects, which is fine.
7:03
[SPEAKER_05]: But to actually have some kind of a solid relationship, it's tough because people judge you, the family, judges you.
7:12
[SPEAKER_05]: It's, you know, so sometimes you just end up settling.
7:16
[SPEAKER_05]: And I feel as though this is what happened with these slew of winners.
7:22
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, I knew she was still around Hollywood.
7:25
[SPEAKER_05]: She was going to school.
7:26
[SPEAKER_05]: She was doing really good.
7:27
[SPEAKER_05]: She told me, she was working at the LA fitness.
7:30
[SPEAKER_05]: She did fitness videos.
7:33
[SPEAKER_05]: And I mean, she was not a dumb girl by any means.
7:36
[SPEAKER_05]: She had to work away through school.
7:38
[SPEAKER_05]: Wasn't in a strip club.
7:39
[SPEAKER_05]: She started go-go dancing.
7:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, Garrett first house, the ex, that's where he met her, at a go-go gig in like 2010.
7:51
[SPEAKER_04]: OK, for me, jazz, I mean, there's a red flag right there.
7:54
[SPEAKER_04]: There is a very strong one in sign.
7:58
[SPEAKER_05]: He was a photographer.
7:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
8:00
[SPEAKER_04]: OK, I got it.
8:01
[SPEAKER_04]: But at a go go join.
8:02
[SPEAKER_04]: So what, like, he brought his camera inside there.
8:06
[SPEAKER_04]: I thought they could bitches.
8:07
[SPEAKER_05]: allegedly and this is the weird part like weeks before that when I ran into Amy somewhere.
8:12
[SPEAKER_05]: She was with a different guy and they met on plenty of fish.
8:15
[SPEAKER_04]: So I said, you know, she's really looking to meet someone good for her.
8:22
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, plenty of fish.com, you know, it's a, you haven't been on too many dating apps have you?
8:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Nah, that's not my capa.
8:30
[SPEAKER_04]: The potential of meanness, psychopath is statistically higher when you get on one of those dating apps.
8:37
[SPEAKER_04]: So these dating apps would be where she'd meet her usual hookups, but she didn't meet this Scarith guy there.
8:42
[SPEAKER_05]: No, so allegedly Garrett, now he's another one, so he was a good looking guy, six
8:53
[SPEAKER_05]: He was a photographer, he was also a coder, like he did programming and so forth and he did photographs of different events.
9:02
[SPEAKER_05]: So they were actual, it was a legitimate job.
9:05
[SPEAKER_05]: He was getting them published somewhere, whether it was online or whatever.
9:10
[SPEAKER_05]: So he met Amy.
9:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And I was in the guy, you know, he looks okay.
9:13
[SPEAKER_04]: He's got that sort of 80s sitcom look that blow-dried hair.
9:17
[SPEAKER_04]: You know,
9:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Maya, maybe let himself go, but as imagine here a real job, unlike spine chink.
9:25
[SPEAKER_05]: So, you know, they dated, and this is another thing.
9:28
[SPEAKER_05]: In a she, she was telling me about this guy.
9:32
[SPEAKER_05]: After that, because I was living in a different country at the time, but I would come back all the time to visit LA and you know, they have an emotionally abusive relationship from one side, which was his side, but she was tolerating it because she wanted the relationship to work and being someone that was studying.
9:53
[SPEAKER_04]: you know psychiatry and therapy you would think that maybe okay let me go ahead and follow some advice I would give other people and just to get the heck out so at this stage of the union the relationship whatever you want to call it do you think she was in love with this guy and this was a happy ever after or was she just like I would ever you know this is it this is my lot in life and I'm just gonna go with it because you know sometimes in life in a relationship even if it is love it can end up being the wrong kind of love
10:21
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I get it.
10:22
[SPEAKER_05]: I know what she was doing.
10:24
[SPEAKER_05]: It's the same thing I've done before.
10:25
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I'm going to make this work.
10:27
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, yeah, I might have a bit of a sketchy pass, but I'm going to make this work because he accepts me.
10:34
[SPEAKER_05]: We can get through this.
10:35
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, he broke her nose once or he bloody it once before.
10:38
[SPEAKER_05]: Did you know that?
10:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't know about him specifically breaking a nose, but I knew that there were
10:49
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't know that, because in the pictures I've seen, she looked taller than you.
10:53
[SPEAKER_05]: We had platform news.
10:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, okay, that's something I didn't consider.
10:56
[SPEAKER_04]: So this Joker was a real hero, real tough guy beating up on girls.
11:00
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, real tough guy, you know, and this is what he did.
11:03
[SPEAKER_05]: So she eventually decides to get a restraining order against him, like, finally.
11:09
[SPEAKER_05]: And that was good, you know, and she got through a training order.
11:14
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, within that time, she suddenly goes on the rise to becoming a Hollywood sex therapist.
11:21
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
11:21
[SPEAKER_04]: This makes me fucking laugh.
11:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't take a serious.
11:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it makes...
11:26
[SPEAKER_04]: I know.
11:26
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what makes me laugh.
11:27
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm weird this discussion, because I mean, you know... What?
11:31
[SPEAKER_04]: You could become one.
11:31
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I'm sure you're good at fucking, and I figure I'm pretty good at fucking two.
11:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe we could start a company together.
11:39
[SPEAKER_04]: But of course, I would have to audition you to make sure that you were qualified at this role.
11:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And you could audition me as well, several times if need be.
11:48
[SPEAKER_04]: But for now, let's continue with your story.
11:50
[SPEAKER_04]: So do you think she was really serious about this whole sex therapist?
11:55
[SPEAKER_05]: I know for a fact, she was really serious about it.
11:57
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll tell you why.
11:58
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, what is a sex therapist?
12:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Is they coming to your bedroom and watch you when you wipe a form and then score you on it?
12:04
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, that's not it.
12:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Or if you can't get a bone of this step in and help you out.
12:07
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's a sex target.
12:09
[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no, no, a sex target is someone that'll have sex with you when your wife will not fuck you anymore.
12:14
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, that's a sexual sorry.
12:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, my bad.
12:16
[SPEAKER_05]: They're not good looking, by the way.
12:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't worry, it's a point.
12:19
[SPEAKER_05]: A sex therapist that she also dealt with abuse survivors.
12:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, and now we're getting into a bit more of a serious area, but still, I mean, yeah, we've got to have a very big ego to be calling yourself like a sex therapist in my mind anyway.
12:35
[SPEAKER_04]: This whole thing smells a bit fishy to me for one of a better word.
12:39
[SPEAKER_04]: He knows she's good looking.
12:41
[SPEAKER_04]: No one's gonna ask her credentials.
12:44
[SPEAKER_04]: For example, Jasmine, it's the very large woman who lives next door to me who was always wearing the tailor swift t-shirt with the gravy stain on it and just the George Michael stubble.
12:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Offer to self up to me as a sexual therapist, I would have to not only refuse this offer, but probably exercise my right to defend myself.
13:03
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, punch her in the face a couple of times, but you still don't think this was a griff.
13:08
[SPEAKER_05]: And okay, honestly, I think part of it is a grift, but she did have her degree.
13:14
[SPEAKER_05]: Like she was also helping people through the pineapple foundation, which is for sex workers, people in adult film, same thing basically, who had some kind of emotional trauma.
13:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, sure, and all that aside, you know, I mean, I had this friend, his name was Sean Moon, but no, called him not at the Golden Mooney, and he went out, and he got a doctor's diploma, that he paid like fucking, I don't 250 bucks for or whatever, and he, he,
13:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Did breast examinations our woman checked for cancer in the parking lot at Walmart?
13:47
[SPEAKER_04]: He read the disband and everything called himself And he will find all the women's breast assists all day making like 30 bucks a pop and he won't legit So was this a half-knowledge college or was it the real deal?
14:01
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's a real thing because she went to school.
14:03
[SPEAKER_04]: She did go to Florida into rupture I just hope I haven't Incriminated moony.
14:08
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll probably edit that out
14:10
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, fuck him, uh, can perm her.
14:12
[SPEAKER_04]: He was okay.
14:14
[SPEAKER_05]: Was he hot?
14:14
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, not really.
14:15
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he was a car salesman.
14:17
[SPEAKER_05]: OK, never mind.
14:18
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
14:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so fickle jazz.
14:21
[SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, so you're saying her thing was legit.
14:24
[SPEAKER_05]: It's a real diploma, because she was dealing with couples as well, couples counseling.
14:29
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, I'm going to give you guys full disclosure here.
14:32
[SPEAKER_05]: She was actually my therapist briefly when I was in an abusive relationship.
14:38
[SPEAKER_05]: OK.
14:39
[SPEAKER_04]: that's terrible.
14:40
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's the stronger connection.
14:42
[SPEAKER_05]: That's okay.
14:43
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm still here.
14:44
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, I think that was too vain to do it to be honest with you.
14:47
[SPEAKER_05]: But she was, you know, she knew what she was talking about, but whether or not she was following her in advice was another story.
14:57
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, the guy was harassing her left and right, left and right, stalking her.
15:02
[SPEAKER_05]: And here's a piece of information
15:06
[SPEAKER_05]: His father was harassing a woman when he was younger, like sending her poetry and flowers to her workplace, and she had to get a restraining order against the dad.
15:20
[SPEAKER_05]: So fast forward to the sun, his spawn, were seeing like a line of mental illness, and Amy was very
15:33
[SPEAKER_05]: She wanted to make sure they had the resources for help and she was big on that.
15:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Which I think we can all agree is a noble cause.
15:42
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just a bit wary of these sexual harassment accusations because you know, my dad didn't sexual harass my mom.
15:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I wouldn't be here.
15:51
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he used to stand outside a bedroom window and mask the bait.
15:55
[SPEAKER_04]: And back then, you know, that was just part of the courting process.
15:58
[SPEAKER_05]: see me now have a chance with you.
15:59
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, my rule of thumb is everyone has a chance with everyone until it's for a straining order and there is a restraining order.
16:07
[SPEAKER_04]: So the long and the short of it is that she gave Garth Perse house ample opportunity.
16:12
[SPEAKER_04]: He wasn't short of chances and in the end, he blew it.
16:16
[SPEAKER_05]: So to speak, I mean, he really did, she just wanted nothing to do with him.
16:20
[SPEAKER_05]: They dated for a little over a year, like me, the closer to two years.
16:24
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that's enough time to realize, okay, Amy, you're giving people some really good advice.
16:30
[SPEAKER_05]: You need to seriously look at your, you know, look at your relationships.
16:35
[SPEAKER_05]: and start following that advice, which is what she did.
16:39
[SPEAKER_05]: So she focused more on herself, and was doing everything she had to to advance her career, and she became a very respected couple's counselor, the sex therapy sector.
16:53
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, she was a published author, wasn't she, she wrote the new sex Bible for women?
16:57
[SPEAKER_05]: Did you read it?
16:59
[SPEAKER_04]: me.
17:00
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't need to fucking read.
17:01
[SPEAKER_04]: I could write my own sex manual.
17:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Really?
17:04
[SPEAKER_04]: If you got what me, Jasmine, you had to be spending and smoke could become an adureage.
17:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Trust me.
17:10
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll send you some tax later.
17:12
[SPEAKER_04]: But I don't want to get into too many details, Jasmine, because this is a family show.
17:17
[SPEAKER_04]: So while kiddin' aside, she wrote this sex Bible with the, with the pictures in it.
17:22
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if there are photos in there, but I do know that she would show up quite it a bit to the, you know, she kind of dabbled around with things like playboy, you know, all the type of sexer.
17:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, she posed and played boy, didn't she?
17:35
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, she did.
17:36
[SPEAKER_05]: So she would dabbler around with things like that.
17:38
[SPEAKER_05]: She never did porn, but I knew that she knew a lot of adult film stars, I mean, hey, it's Hollywood.
17:43
[SPEAKER_05]: You got to these bars all the time.
17:45
[SPEAKER_05]: You meet people.
17:46
[SPEAKER_05]: So of course, you come into contact with them.
17:49
[SPEAKER_05]: You have the handful of those girls that are seriously broken and have a lot of problems.
17:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, there were a couple of born actresses at Perth House's trial, won't they testifying against them?
17:59
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, maybe it was through the photography thing or whatever, which you think is real, it wasn't fake.
18:06
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, he ran in certain circles.
18:09
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I do believe there's that passion of photography.
18:11
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll give him that much, but I think it was
18:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, it's interesting that you and I were speaking earlier, and that purse house had a similarity with Travis Alexander, and that was more than just photography, and that was, he was a stand-up comedian.
18:27
[SPEAKER_04]: And from what I've seen, just like Travis Alexander, he was equally unfunny.
18:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Now are these not only the two similarities between the men, did was purse house just caulk happy?
18:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Or do you think he legitimately loved Amy?
18:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Now that I think about it, I got like major Ted Bundy vibes from him.
18:42
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that he was just obsessed with her because it's the only woman that really paid attention to him other than his mother.
18:49
[SPEAKER_05]: But he was a good looking guy though.
18:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I don't know when you met him if he was still, but I mean, the pictures of him.
18:55
[SPEAKER_05]: He was hot.
18:56
[SPEAKER_04]: He looks like an extra from low budget pay watch.
18:58
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, if Hazel offered left in the 10th season and they needed the fill, his role, known the show we're going to be canceled, this is what this guy looked like.
19:06
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but if you have so many mental defects, it's hard to keep someone in a relationship with you.
19:13
[SPEAKER_04]: So this guy just fell short, where it mattered.
19:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, look, he was isolating her from her friends.
19:18
[SPEAKER_05]: He was controlling her.
19:19
[SPEAKER_04]: It's, uh, and girls don't like that.
19:22
[SPEAKER_05]: No, we don't.
19:22
[SPEAKER_05]: Well,
19:23
[SPEAKER_05]: Um, not really, but some of us like assholes, uh, you know, then you're using mutual friends to get a hold of her.
19:34
[SPEAKER_05]: People don't want that shit, man.
19:36
[SPEAKER_05]: No, we know one wants you to like contact your friend on your friend or the nobody would want you to contact someone else who doesn't want to speak to you.
19:47
[SPEAKER_05]: Just to tell him, hey, he wants you to call.
19:49
[SPEAKER_05]: Hey, he really misses you.
19:50
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, my God, he loves you.
19:51
[SPEAKER_05]: Nobody wants that.
19:52
[SPEAKER_05]: Eventually, those mutual friends stop taking his phone calls and text.
19:57
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, there's an old quote, and I can't remember what came from, but it says something like, no one quite remembers one love begins, but they always know what it ends.
20:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Whoop.
20:06
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's obvious that she turned the corner and, you know, she never looked back.
20:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Amy just wanted to move on with the life, and you know, leaving behind.
20:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's another thing, Garrett wanted to stay in touch with her after they broke up.
20:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Which isn't very realistic, you know, especially considering it was an abusive relationship.
20:24
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I don't think, you know, those types of friendships were a God very well, but you know, she moved on.
20:30
[SPEAKER_05]: She did her book.
20:31
[SPEAKER_04]: So she released the book afterwards.
20:34
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and then she ended up dating Drew Carey.
20:36
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, they met at a party.
20:38
[SPEAKER_05]: And I know he has a thing for women that were sex well.
20:42
[SPEAKER_05]: I shouldn't say sex workers because she wasn't that.
20:46
[SPEAKER_05]: But he has a thing for beautiful women.
20:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, she was certainly on the precipice of it.
20:50
[SPEAKER_05]: she was right there so she was flirting with it for sure um you know he has a thing for beautiful girls he used to come to all of the AVN which is the adult video news conventions back in the 90s I have a photo with him somewhere I think uh but he wasn't all that
21:08
[SPEAKER_04]: And for anyone not from the States, Drew Carey, he's a comedian, an actor, he had his own TV show, and he's now the host of some games show, the prices right.
21:17
[SPEAKER_04]: And he's no looker, but, you know, he seems like a nice guy.
21:21
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, definitely.
21:22
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, and she, when she got together with Drew, I was so happy for her, and it wasn't, you know, not too long after that, they had gotten engaged.
21:31
[SPEAKER_05]: I was extra happy, and you know, I set it myself finally, a normal relationship with a normal person.
21:39
[SPEAKER_04]: even brought her out on stage and announced that engagement to live on the prices right.
21:43
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he brought her out.
21:45
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, they applauded more for her.
21:47
[SPEAKER_05]: I think than, you know, than him.
21:50
[SPEAKER_05]: And she walked out there and it was really nice how he, you know, put her on display.
21:54
[SPEAKER_05]: A lot of celebrities wouldn't do that.
21:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, because of a background, but that putting her out there in front of the press of what not in media, that ended up sort of causing a stress between their relationship because they started criticizing her.
22:14
[SPEAKER_04]: She were like, townless, she were gold.
22:15
[SPEAKER_04]: They, you know, when the list goes on.
22:18
[SPEAKER_05]: He should have stuck up for her more, but I know that his fame did come between the relationship quite a bit.
22:26
[SPEAKER_05]: And I feel bad for her because what happens with things like this and maybe some people don't understand is when when you're past or when there are things that people don't like like someone's friends or family don't like about you and that guy can't send up for you and then dumps you after that you feel like you were played with.
22:45
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not a good feeling.
22:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Did he dump her?
22:48
[SPEAKER_05]: It was an amicable thing.
22:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess the tragic part of all this is that she'd called him two days before she was murdered and he told her that he loved her and they had arranged to meet.
23:01
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep, I mean, maybe there would have been a reconciliation.
23:03
[SPEAKER_05]: I know Amy, yes, I think they would have reconciled and she would have accepted whatever it was that she couldn't before just to make the relationship work.
23:13
[SPEAKER_04]: And when they'd broken up, it was, it was amicable.
23:16
[SPEAKER_05]: It wasn't some crazy toxic crap, but I mean, and during that time, while she was with Drew that restraining water expired, and you don't think too much of it then.
23:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is the sad part.
23:29
[SPEAKER_05]: The worst thing, and I feel as though with a restraining water, it should be indefinite until the victim, the person who files for it, says I no longer need it.
23:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I don't know about that jazz.
23:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Women, I mean, women are, I mean, they get abused that sort of thing, right?
23:47
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, let's, let's be honest here.
23:51
[SPEAKER_05]: Look, I took out an RO and a guy once before, but I called him the next day.
23:55
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, there you go.
23:56
[SPEAKER_05]: We still speak.
23:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So things are okay between you now.
24:02
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's kind of sexy then, what's it?
24:04
[SPEAKER_05]: I think we hooked up a few times as well.
24:07
[SPEAKER_04]: At the end of the day, relationships can be crazy, tumultuous, and not all of them.
24:14
[SPEAKER_04]: And obviously, it in murder or obsessive, you know, please restrains and all that shit.
24:21
[SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, did she know that this restraining order had been lifted or had run its course?
24:29
[SPEAKER_05]: No, at the time, she's in Lola land at the time, caught up in her whole thing with counseling people, being a sex therapist, and going out there doing interviews, doing little commercials, like she was just, she was doing her thing.
24:42
[SPEAKER_04]: So she was doing all right for it, so she was pretty successful.
24:46
[SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely, you know, she was in a jewelry carrier, but yeah, she was earning, she was doing well, like her, the time she invested in those classes and going to school, you know, all the other stuff, it paid off and she was happy.
25:00
[SPEAKER_05]: Like the most important thing is she found something she was happy with, she got advocate of the year at the ex-Biz Awards, which is an adult award show a different one.
25:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is where she ran into Perseus.
25:14
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, honey, expis X, X, B, A, C. Wasn't this the one we'll witness this time together and he he ties that scene.
25:21
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, two weeks before he murdered her?
25:23
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
25:24
[SPEAKER_04]: They wrote the lobby and she looked up and he was staring at her and he approached her and she was just trying to be friendly and he lost his shed.
25:33
[SPEAKER_04]: He started blubbering and crying like a woman.
25:36
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, he was crying.
25:38
[SPEAKER_05]: He was carrying on.
25:39
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, he wouldn't stop.
25:40
[SPEAKER_05]: But there were witnesses to this.
25:42
[SPEAKER_05]: One of the witnesses testified.
25:45
[SPEAKER_05]: at the trial, so there were witnesses watching him break down and freak out, and, you know, she went to therapist mode, and, you know, the last thing she did say, I hope you'd get help.
25:57
[SPEAKER_05]: And she was right.
25:58
[SPEAKER_05]: She was 100% correct.
25:59
[SPEAKER_05]: He needed help.
26:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, if witnesses testimony's ought to be believed, he fell down on his knees, and he was bluppering.
26:08
[SPEAKER_04]: for her to take him back, sobbing like a little girl.
26:11
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, a grown, and this is years after you're broken up, you know, you, I'm sorry, but you just have to move on.
26:18
[SPEAKER_04]: And there was various pieces of evidence that he wasn't moving on.
26:23
[SPEAKER_04]: She was receiving prank phone calls.
26:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Someone was breaking into apartments, stealing personal item at items of us.
26:30
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, after the whole thing of her place being broken into and stuff, ghetto going missing, and then she was living with Drew Carey.
26:37
[SPEAKER_05]: She then moved into a house with her friend.
26:40
[SPEAKER_05]: And this is important because she was a safe spot.
26:42
[SPEAKER_05]: It was in the middle, like before the Hollywood Hills area, a very quiet street in a big mansion.
26:49
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's where she was living at the time.
26:51
[SPEAKER_04]: This is Michael Herman.
26:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, this is, yes, he's Christian.
26:55
[SPEAKER_04]: He's quiet.
26:56
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm laughing.
26:57
[SPEAKER_04]: I know you say he's nice, but, uh, he was hysterical.
27:02
[SPEAKER_04]: If I were getting into an incident and I needed some sort of backup, this would not be the guy I'd be calling.
27:10
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, what?
27:12
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the way he handled it, yeah, so I've never, the way he handled it, I've never seen now.
27:18
[SPEAKER_04]: I would rather my mom, uh, fucking back and me up than that guy.
27:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I fucking I can't find my phone.
27:23
[SPEAKER_04]: He was, he would like, uh, I'm trying to think of a polite way to say, like, he would like a half a sissy or something.
27:29
[SPEAKER_04]: What was his paper?
27:30
[SPEAKER_04]: What was his paper?
27:31
[SPEAKER_04]: What did this guy do for a living?
27:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I was a, a floor, a flower, a ranger or something?
27:35
[SPEAKER_05]: It was some kind of weird blue food stuff, but I have no idea.
27:41
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm fucking laughing, because this guy is like, I don't want to get ahead of ourselves here, but holy fuck, I don't know, because I mean, I know the pet, no, I'll get ahead of myself here.
27:51
[SPEAKER_04]: So she moved in with this guy.
27:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Why did she move in with this guy?
27:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, as we used to have an expression called Faghag.
27:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
27:58
[SPEAKER_05]: All of us are, come on.
28:01
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, I'm a fact-hack too, too, to agree, but it's a very dangerous relationship as in friendship because eventually, you know, some of them want to be like their bestie.
28:13
[SPEAKER_04]: There are some reports from people who believe that he had ulterior motives, being nobody that he really wanted to, you know, he wanted more out of the friendship.
28:22
[SPEAKER_05]: No, this is a safe space for her, and there was a beautiful bedroom upstairs.
28:27
[SPEAKER_05]: It was quiet, and it was a gated home.
28:31
[SPEAKER_05]: That's where you think you would not have an issue.
28:33
[SPEAKER_05]: And I remember she installed security cameras after she ran into him, which is rightfully so you have to.
28:44
[SPEAKER_05]: Because the guys act in like a freak.
28:46
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, she went back to the police, by the way, to get a restraining order.
28:49
[SPEAKER_04]: What, to get a second restraining order?
28:51
[SPEAKER_05]: You wanted to renew it, and they didn't do it.
28:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, they probably thought she didn't have enough evidence that this guy had, you know, broke, you know, that he was a danger.
29:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, Amy lifted the top level of this condo and Michael Herman, he lived on the bottom floor.
29:06
[SPEAKER_05]: The bottom, yes.
29:07
[SPEAKER_04]: So he was a bottom man.
29:09
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I just said he lived in the bar, I was like, I didn't say that.
29:13
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's what I said.
29:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Don't be so defensive, G.E.
29:17
[SPEAKER_04]: He's a bottom man.
29:18
[SPEAKER_04]: He lived on the bottom floor.
29:20
[SPEAKER_04]: So the night of Valentine's, Amy had gone out with some friends.
29:25
[SPEAKER_04]: And he was at home on the bottom floor.
29:28
[SPEAKER_05]: He met some friends, Valentine's night.
29:30
[SPEAKER_04]: which is what a lot of a single women will do on Valentine's Day.
29:34
[SPEAKER_04]: So set the scene, where, where'd she go?
29:36
[SPEAKER_05]: So they went out to a burlesque show.
29:38
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you see the photos up all over the line.
29:40
[SPEAKER_05]: They're having a blast.
29:42
[SPEAKER_05]: Then she comes home after midnight.
29:44
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, that's right.
29:45
[SPEAKER_04]: They went out to a burlesque show.
29:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Now the roommate, this Michael Herman, had stayed home that night, and he said that around 9.30, he heard something smash upstairs, and he thought maybe the cat had knocked over a vase or something.
30:02
[SPEAKER_04]: and then he heard footsteps.
30:04
[SPEAKER_04]: So he figured she was already home and that she was cleaning it up.
30:09
[SPEAKER_04]: To which we now know that was in fact Gareth Perthouse, who had broken into her home and to her apartment, whatever you call it.
30:16
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep.
30:17
[SPEAKER_04]: He had smashed the lowest section of a patio door and squeezed in and that was what Michael Herman had heard and thought that the cat had broken something.
30:26
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he broke the glass.
30:28
[SPEAKER_05]: And he was also trying to mess with the ring cameras, the ring security cameras.
30:32
[SPEAKER_04]: That's right, because there's that almost comedic footage of him walking back and forth and then looking into the camera and then he even tried the disconnect that which is ridiculous.
30:41
[SPEAKER_05]: You don't disconnect it because there's, you just can't, you can turn it around, you could throw something over it.
30:46
[SPEAKER_05]: But he's messing with the cameras.
30:48
[SPEAKER_05]: He realizes that he cannot disconnect it.
30:51
[SPEAKER_05]: So what does he do he panics?
30:52
[SPEAKER_05]: OK.
30:53
[SPEAKER_05]: So he already broke the glass and this, the flower boy, I mean, you should do first thing you should do, go out there and see what it is.
31:02
[SPEAKER_04]: And many people were critical of Michael Herman's behavior, that evening, and that he should have done more.
31:09
[SPEAKER_04]: When, in fact, he did, I mean, is some would say some critics would say very little.
31:13
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he didn't want to.
31:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Although, saying that,
31:16
[SPEAKER_04]: As an explanation, I thought it was kind of reasonable when he thought that the cat could not something over, and that she was home.
31:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Or do you think it was just lying?
31:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And of course we have to be careful here, you know, I should even say lying.
31:32
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's a little bit of both.
31:34
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
31:36
[SPEAKER_05]: I think it was an excuse, but maybe it's true.
31:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Because at that moment, you don't know, maybe she came home late, whatever.
31:42
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not going to bother her, but don't you greet roommates when they come home late?
31:47
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, I've never had roommates.
31:48
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, but.
31:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And especially since he heard the smash at around 9.30, so you think he would have said, hey, as a go on, you know, how was your day, you know, something?
31:57
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, if they were supposed to be such amigos,
32:00
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think it's weird that he didn't investigate it.
32:02
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the bad part about this and just the way he handled it, but I'll get to that in a second.
32:08
[SPEAKER_05]: So this is part of what, you know, Geroth was actually charged with, because this is a very important part of it.
32:14
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, he broke in and was actually waiting for her.
32:19
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, because she had to come home sometime.
32:21
[SPEAKER_04]: And well, he ended up waiting for about three hours for.
32:25
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, that's the motion for reals.
32:28
[SPEAKER_05]: I be to just be there in waiting.
32:31
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, he just waited and waited the next thing you know, she's there.
32:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Return and home probably had a few drinks filled in no pain, walks in, expecting to see her beloved cat.
32:44
[SPEAKER_05]: And this scumbag attacks her.
32:48
[SPEAKER_05]: He has a needle that they later find with some kind of brown fluid in it, and she knocked it out of his hand.
32:55
[SPEAKER_04]: And this turned out to be liquid nicotine.
32:58
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I've never heard of a lethal amount of nicotine in my life, maybe because I'm an ounce of smoke work.
33:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Well apparently, just like smoking, it could have killed her.
33:07
[SPEAKER_04]: It's lethal.
33:08
[SPEAKER_05]: She knocked it out of his hand for a short.
33:10
[SPEAKER_04]: And because a struggle had ensued, and he really knocked her around, she had strangled mocks on her throat because he's ammox.
33:19
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh yeah, he was trying to strangler her.
33:21
[SPEAKER_05]: You ripped that rosary off of her neck, the black beads are all over the place.
33:25
[SPEAKER_04]: And she had a cross, she had a cross, didn't she as well?
33:28
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep, and it's just so, it's, you have bottom boy there.
33:31
[SPEAKER_05]: She's screaming, why aren't you running upstairs to see what the hell is going on?
33:37
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is the frustrating part about this whole case, where Michael Hermann, he was downstairs, he could hear everything.
33:46
[SPEAKER_04]: And I, you know, I don't like bunch and down on people, but come on.
33:51
[SPEAKER_04]: He just sat there listening to it, he said he could hear it.
33:54
[SPEAKER_04]: He said he could hear her being strangled, he could hear a struggle and he didn't nothing.
34:00
[SPEAKER_04]: And he said he couldn't phone, he couldn't find his phone, the collar plate, he was the police, he was looking for it,
34:08
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, she's Louise.
34:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And because this guy couldn't find his own phone, he, well, apparently couldn't find his phone.
34:15
[SPEAKER_04]: He just, he just left the building.
34:17
[SPEAKER_04]: He just ran away.
34:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha,
34:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, from his big adventure.
34:31
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, all of his mission was him wearing those white loafers in the tight suit.
34:35
[SPEAKER_05]: And then you go, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da,
34:56
[SPEAKER_04]: He said that he literally heard her being choked and strangled, and her head being banged on the floor.
35:03
[SPEAKER_05]: And then why weren't you up there?
35:05
[SPEAKER_05]: Like he could have taken a lamp, he could have taken something and bash this guy on his head.
35:12
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, this girl like emphasized how big he is, 230 pounds, six foot four.
35:18
[SPEAKER_04]: But Herman, he could have just walked up the stairs and knocked lightly on the door and said, hey, Amy, is everything okay?
35:25
[SPEAKER_04]: And what gets me is when they interviewed the parents, Amy's parents, the mom, Penny, were both the folks said they didn't blame my mom, Michael Herman.
35:35
[SPEAKER_04]: And they felt bad for him because he had survivors guilt.
35:39
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm thinking, you should have survivors guilt because you let your friend down.
35:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And maybe if there was a gun and fall, firearms involved, you could try to understand.
35:50
[SPEAKER_04]: But there wasn't.
35:51
[SPEAKER_04]: He just heard her being strangled.
35:54
[SPEAKER_04]: And the security footage shows Michael Hermann after running around like a chicken without his head off in the backyard.
36:00
[SPEAKER_04]: He climbs this metal iron fence, and then he runs starts running up the road knocking on other people's doors.
36:08
[SPEAKER_04]: And anyone who's lived in Hollywood, I mean, for price sake, this is, you know, this is the Manson murders were there.
36:14
[SPEAKER_04]: No one's gonna answer the door.
36:16
[SPEAKER_04]: At like one in the morning.
36:18
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, there's no way.
36:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Especially like some fucking crazy flores, you know, screaming at the top of his lungs like a woman.
36:26
[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, exactly.
36:27
[SPEAKER_05]: I can't, I just couldn't believe it.
36:30
[SPEAKER_05]: And then he's there doing all of this.
36:32
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, why aren't you up in that bedroom?
36:36
[SPEAKER_05]: Cause maybe he could have done something to save her.
36:38
[SPEAKER_05]: But, uh,
36:40
[SPEAKER_05]: Just the fear, you have to think about the fair of this girl.
36:43
[SPEAKER_05]: This is the last thing she thought of.
36:45
[SPEAKER_05]: This guy has his hands around her throat.
36:47
[SPEAKER_05]: And knowing Amy, she did fight for her life.
36:50
[SPEAKER_05]: She put up a fight.
36:51
[SPEAKER_05]: And he threw her over a balcony to a 20-foot drop.
36:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Which is horrific, and you wonder what must have been her last thoughts?
37:01
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, was she thinking, oh, Michael's downstairs?
37:04
[SPEAKER_04]: You're gonna come to save me?
37:05
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, my God, no.
37:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Or, you know what, she was thinking, is oh, my God.
37:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Michael's downstairs, and I'm going to die.
37:12
[SPEAKER_04]: It's useless.
37:15
[SPEAKER_04]: But eventually knocking on a half of Hollywood Hill's doors, he was able to find someone, or convince someone to let him in to use their phone.
37:23
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm going to play the audio from the police vests of when they arrived at the scene.
37:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, hold on.
37:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I'm too you to have access to here.
37:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there anybody else inside the house?
37:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really, just hearing me by yourself.
37:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
37:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Dude, I've heard screaming, I don't know if I had a button.
37:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't overnight, I came running China, so I couldn't find my phone.
37:45
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's somebody else in here?
37:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I think they're safe.
37:47
[SPEAKER_00]: They're doing me a favor, do me a favor calm down, calm down.
37:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Other than your roommate, is there anybody else inside of the house?
37:52
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to, I don't know, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
38:10
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a typical tape-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-edit-ed
38:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So how are you going to get it?
38:42
[SPEAKER_04]: So this goes on and on and on probably a lot longer than it should.
38:45
[SPEAKER_04]: But eventually the cops climb the fence and they find Amy's body dying.
38:50
[SPEAKER_04]: She, you know, just laying there.
38:53
[SPEAKER_04]: And you can't help but wonder if hermen had taken a stronger action on this or done something sooner that she would have survived.
39:01
[SPEAKER_05]: I didn't want to say it, you said it.
39:02
[SPEAKER_05]: But that's the first thing that came to my brain.
39:05
[SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, who knows hindsight is a lottery of life and we'll have to give him the benefit of the doubt here.
39:12
[SPEAKER_04]: And the fact is that you ran out without his key, so he couldn't even get back in.
39:15
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I don't know if it was some sort of app yet on his phone that led him in, but it just, it's just so bizarre.
39:22
[SPEAKER_05]: She's still alive.
39:23
[SPEAKER_05]: I actually, I had someone showed me the photos of the crime scene a few days later.
39:28
[SPEAKER_05]: I'd not that I asked for it.
39:29
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, her butt just looked so weird how her body was, it was dislocated.
39:36
[SPEAKER_05]: And she's laying there in blood, she's still alive.
39:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Did she land on a leg?
39:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Did she land on her head?
39:45
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, there are people that have said that she was already unconscious, so she was unable
39:54
[SPEAKER_05]: that's more accurate.
39:55
[SPEAKER_05]: He's strangler a lot and then just knocked right over and I'm pretty sure it looks like it looked like the head hit first and everything else fell into place and the body dislocated laying there and she's, you know, fighting and fighting to stay alive.
40:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Well clearly opportunities were missed.
40:18
[SPEAKER_05]: 100% even if this guy got whacked in the back of the head with a lamp like her roommate could have done it would have at least given her a chance to run and get help.
40:31
[SPEAKER_05]: It would have given her a chance to call 911.
40:33
[SPEAKER_04]: And I believe the purse house would have fled the scene if he saw something or heard someone coming.
40:37
[SPEAKER_05]: You would have been scared.
40:39
[SPEAKER_05]: No, he's a scaredy cat.
40:41
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it's also another guy.
40:43
[SPEAKER_05]: He wasn't going to do anything to him.
40:45
[SPEAKER_05]: He likes to hurt women.
40:47
[SPEAKER_05]: It's obvious.
40:48
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's what would have happened.
40:51
[SPEAKER_05]: And he would have stopped and ran off.
40:54
[SPEAKER_04]: It's tragic.
40:56
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I wonder if the ambulance had gotten their sooner would she have been saved?
41:01
[SPEAKER_05]: Because she was dead at the hospital.
41:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, she died a couple hours later, but she had massive head injuries.
41:07
[SPEAKER_04]: She would have, if she lived, she would have been a vegetable, and she wouldn't want it that.
41:13
[SPEAKER_04]: So, I assume the police would have won straight to Garrett Perth, house's residents, and arrested him.
41:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Because, I mean, they already knew there was a restraining order against them.
41:24
[SPEAKER_04]: So, what did the cops think?
41:26
[SPEAKER_05]: First, they were saying that she jumped off the balcony, and she wasn't suicidal.
41:31
[SPEAKER_05]: She did not fall off the balcony.
41:33
[SPEAKER_05]: She did not jump off of the balcony.
41:35
[SPEAKER_05]: And the cops still think it's flower boy.
41:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Then this whole new suspect comes into play.
41:43
[SPEAKER_05]: And then they see the ring camera footage.
41:45
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, this is great.
41:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Which shows the person.
41:48
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I had my lawyer run a background check on Garret.
41:51
[SPEAKER_05]: When his name hit the news the next day.
41:52
[SPEAKER_05]: And I got his background report.
41:54
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, like, it had nothing on it.
41:56
[SPEAKER_05]: But I saw where his parents lived and all of this other stuff.
42:01
[SPEAKER_05]: Then I found out he gets out on bail.
42:05
[SPEAKER_05]: So I posted his parents' address on my Twitter account.
42:09
[SPEAKER_05]: I took it down.
42:11
[SPEAKER_04]: So you're getting ahead of things here, so they arrested him.
42:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Sorry.
42:15
[SPEAKER_04]: And then they released them.
42:16
[SPEAKER_05]: They arrested him.
42:19
[SPEAKER_05]: They brought him in.
42:19
[SPEAKER_04]: How long afterwards, you think, probably right away, really, because they would have checked because she had a restrained order on the guy that would have come up.
42:27
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, hours later, um, he gets arrested.
42:32
[SPEAKER_05]: someone put a bail, it was like maybe $2 million or $1 million.
42:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Who's got that kind of, who's got that kind of cash?
42:41
[SPEAKER_05]: The parents?
42:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
42:42
[SPEAKER_05]: Which wasn't right.
42:44
[SPEAKER_05]: And they, so the cops, like everyone starts turning up the heat on the cops to find this guy.
42:53
[SPEAKER_04]: But they've already found them.
42:54
[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, to re-arrest him and bring him in without bail.
42:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, because he's on bail, yeah, okay, okay, I get it, yeah.
43:01
[SPEAKER_05]: Dave Navarro, the guitarist, what was that band, Jane's addiction?
43:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and he was in the chili peppers for a bit.
43:08
[SPEAKER_05]: So, David Navarro of Jane's addiction was a good friend of Amy's.
43:13
[SPEAKER_05]: He'd gotten the news that this guy was released on bail.
43:18
[SPEAKER_05]: He went down to the police department.
43:23
[SPEAKER_05]: and turned up the pressure to get this guy and hold him with no bail.
43:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's what they did.
43:33
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, they found him at the internet hamburger near the airport.
43:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I love being in our burgers, fucking, that's a good one, too.
43:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's a good one.
43:43
[SPEAKER_04]: I've been that one near the airport.
43:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, OK, so they found them there.
43:47
[SPEAKER_04]: What we do?
43:47
[SPEAKER_04]: We're working here, we have an burger.
43:50
[SPEAKER_05]: He was having a burger like was he trying to escape because you're near the airport?
43:54
[SPEAKER_05]: Like what were you doing near there?
43:57
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, because LA access about 30 or 40 miles away from Hollywood, and there's certainly other in and out burgers that you'd go through before that one.
44:05
[SPEAKER_04]: You'd come across.
44:05
[SPEAKER_05]: Marina Del Rey, North Hollywood, so what were you doing there?
44:12
[SPEAKER_05]: Was he trying to flee?
44:15
[SPEAKER_04]: How did they even know he was there?
44:17
[SPEAKER_05]: Probably the cell phone towers.
44:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, okay, at least he could find his cell phone.
44:23
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, and flower boy could not.
44:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Apparently at the time of us recording this podcast, he's still looking for his phone.
44:29
[SPEAKER_05]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
44:40
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, why don't you send them some pictures of yourself and see if you can get them to, although I'm not sure he's into that.
44:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe I'll send them some dick pics, but you know, we could have him.
44:51
[SPEAKER_04]: You ever do a three way with a male florist, Jazz?
44:55
[SPEAKER_05]: In a non-bip of those songs?
44:58
[SPEAKER_05]: No, no.
45:00
[SPEAKER_04]: But it would be a good interview.
45:01
[SPEAKER_04]: So they re-arassed Perseus for whatever reason.
45:04
[SPEAKER_05]: More evidence that came forward.
45:07
[SPEAKER_05]: And just I think it's also just the pressure that was turned up on the whole celebrity behind it, you know, it's Drew Carey's fiance.
45:15
[SPEAKER_05]: She's beautiful.
45:16
[SPEAKER_05]: He was there harassing her two weeks prior.
45:19
[SPEAKER_05]: She wanted to get the restraining order extended, et cetera, et cetera.
45:24
[SPEAKER_05]: So the pressure was on.
45:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, this would have been pretty high profile.
45:29
[SPEAKER_05]: He's in jail waiting, and at this point, we were trying a bunch of us wanted to get this law passed called Amy's Law, and it's really said, after people, you know, these laws are named after victims long after they're gone.
45:43
[SPEAKER_05]: And that was a law that we're protect.
45:46
[SPEAKER_05]: People who had restraining orders were it would never expire and the people,
45:53
[SPEAKER_05]: who were served these restraining orders would get the mental health necessary because she was such a big advocate of mental health.
46:02
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, never happened, obviously, it's California.
46:05
[SPEAKER_05]: But he's sitting there in jail.
46:10
[SPEAKER_05]: In downtown LA, I'm sure he got messed with because everyone knows someone in a jail and they have their own set of rules.
46:21
[SPEAKER_05]: Time goes by, and in 2023, he shows up in court.
46:27
[SPEAKER_05]: No six pack, a double chin, and he was sentenced to life.
46:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I saw a picture of this guy in court, and like I said, he worked pudgy and middle-aged man, and I thought, this is what Amy was into.
46:44
[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, no, no.
46:46
[SPEAKER_04]: And I know that you had said he was handsome as well, and I was just like, wow, this world has become a crazy place.
46:55
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I mean, those diets aren't exactly good for working out.
46:59
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm sure he was very scared.
47:01
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll tell you where they housed him.
47:02
[SPEAKER_05]: They've housed him now at the California Men's Colony, which is, it's like a country club almost.
47:09
[SPEAKER_05]: Shrignite is there as well.
47:11
[SPEAKER_05]: And they put people there who safety is compromised in general population.
47:16
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm sure they had a few days with him when he was in Gen Pop.
47:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, hopefully.
47:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Did you ever meet this Michael Harmon Guide, the roommate?
47:25
[SPEAKER_05]: Briefly, when everyone was out one night like for a brief second, and I thought he was a flower boy.
47:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Which is an admirable profession.
47:32
[SPEAKER_05]: Light on the low ferns of her.
47:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Was he like a short little guy?
47:36
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, everyone was short.
47:37
[SPEAKER_05]: We all wear heels.
47:39
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm bad with height, but we all wear heels, so like the whole world is short as.
47:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Now moving about the girth purse house, did he plead guilty and not guilty?
47:46
[SPEAKER_05]: He plead not guilty, but they were trying to say that like his defense tried to say that she fell off of the balcony, that it should be a mistrial, all this other stuff, like all it should be a mistrial because you don't really know if it was him and nobody saw him.
48:04
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, well, yet then why was he?
48:06
[SPEAKER_05]: leaving there, moments after the murder, like you haven't on a ring camera for fuck's sake.
48:12
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm sure there must have found his DNA in there somewhere.
48:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, you know, he's been in the apartment.
48:17
[SPEAKER_05]: We broke, and that's how they found his DNA.
48:19
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, least go to at least, you know, go to jail for that.
48:22
[SPEAKER_05]: So they sentenced him to life without a possibility of parole.
48:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, because they figured that he planned it, this wasn't just
48:32
[SPEAKER_05]: Of course.
48:33
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, he broke in to there.
48:35
[SPEAKER_05]: He had that nicotine needle for what?
48:37
[SPEAKER_05]: Was he going to stop her with that?
48:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I guess we'll never know, will we?
48:41
[SPEAKER_04]: But he was convicted in 2023 of murder and burglary.
48:46
[SPEAKER_04]: And his special circumstances because he was lying and waiting.
48:50
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
48:50
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's his personal circumstance.
48:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And as mentioned, life without parole.
48:55
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and that's what he should have.
48:57
[SPEAKER_05]: That is what he should have.
48:58
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know if they'll let him out, but I know that nobody can get to him where he is to cause him any harm, and that's what they wanted.
49:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Andrew Carey has gone on TV and he says that he forgives per a house.
49:12
[SPEAKER_04]: If he forgives him completely.
49:14
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think that's a bit like to be honest with you.
49:16
[SPEAKER_05]: A, to forgive, forgive, forgive.
49:19
[SPEAKER_05]: It's that whole, it's that mentality that they have.
49:24
[SPEAKER_05]: And they're just tone deaf.
49:26
[SPEAKER_05]: And let's not forget days after Amy's death, you have Wendy Williams who's a comedian who went on her show.
49:33
[SPEAKER_05]: Making fun of Amy's death.
49:35
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, it's Drew Carey's fiance.
49:38
[SPEAKER_05]: God, shoved off the balcony.
49:39
[SPEAKER_05]: I guess she went on down.
49:40
[SPEAKER_05]: Ha-ha-ha.
49:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's not funny.
49:43
[SPEAKER_05]: But they let her stay on the air afterwards, yeah.
49:46
[SPEAKER_04]: After anybody who hasn't seen the prices, right?
49:48
[SPEAKER_04]: The show hosted by Drew Carey, that's the sort of a call-up.
49:52
[SPEAKER_04]: When they bring the audience on the stage, they say, come on down.
49:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, I know that the funeral was in Pennsylvania.
50:00
[SPEAKER_04]: They took a back home.
50:02
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, parents of families in Pennsylvania was adopted, so she was adopted by a lovely family from Pennsylvania that you have a mom.
50:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Wow, maybe that's why they forgave Michael Harman, they just thought, yeah, she won our real daughter.
50:17
[SPEAKER_04]: You win some you lose some.
50:19
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it's just, that's horrible.
50:22
[SPEAKER_05]: But I know what you're saying, and it's just really sad.
50:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, did you go to the funeral or no?
50:28
[SPEAKER_05]: No.
50:30
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, but it's just a close circle of yeah, I'm not a funeral person either No, I just I don't do them if I have to I have to obviously first family members.
50:43
[SPEAKER_05]: I do And some friends.
50:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you know if Drew Kerry went?
50:48
[SPEAKER_05]: I think Drew went.
50:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah You know, I bet you pee we Herman went to I bet you fucking threw himself on the coffin
50:56
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
51:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Well Jasmine, although terribly sad and tragic that was fascinating to hear your insight on this case, from your personal experience with the victim.
51:34
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, from the inception of her coming out to LA to pursue different things until all of this ended.
51:41
[SPEAKER_05]: And she issued, she was very well-liked and respected by everyone.
51:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And certainly there are no winners in this case and with Gareth, Perth house.
51:50
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he's whatever he was thinking.
51:53
[SPEAKER_04]: And well, maybe we'll never know about he's going to spend the rest of his life thinking about his evil deed.
52:01
[SPEAKER_05]: 100%.
52:05
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think it was like,
52:10
[SPEAKER_05]: If I can't have, you know, buddy can.
52:12
[SPEAKER_05]: But I wonder if he had intended to kill himself with that nicotine shot.
52:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, that's an interesting theory.
52:18
[SPEAKER_04]: My head and a thought of that.
52:20
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, he thought he fixed that.
52:22
[SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, flower boy could have at least taken that needle and jabbed him in the knock or something.
52:27
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I think flower boy should have jabbed himself in the knock.
52:31
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
52:32
[SPEAKER_05]: Just be done with yourself, please.
52:35
[SPEAKER_04]: And, of course, apologies to my government.
52:37
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm only teasing you.
52:39
[SPEAKER_04]: You did your best, and I'm being a bully here.
52:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, I'm Michael.
52:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And that was the tragic case of Amy Harwork.
52:47
[SPEAKER_04]: And now, I think it's time we move on to our second case.
52:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, the case that I'm about to start talking about happened on the opposite end of the world, and that's in Sydney, Australia.
53:02
[SPEAKER_04]: which is a wonderful place to visit if you like men who wear Daisy Duke shorts and have their haircuts like David Bowie from 1973 and nine out of ten times the women you come across can beat you in an arm wrestle.
53:15
[SPEAKER_04]: You ever been to Sydney, Australia, Jasmine?
53:17
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I've been there a couple of times, it's just beautiful.
53:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, me too, and it is beautiful and all kidding aside.
53:23
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's paradise, and the great thing about Australian generals, it's like the, you know,
53:31
[SPEAKER_04]: place in the world and you just get away from all the shit in the bullshit that's happening in the West of World.
53:37
[SPEAKER_04]: But even in Paradise, Jasmine, there is evil.
53:42
[SPEAKER_04]: And the story that I'm about to share with you is about true, evil.
53:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Now Jasmine Sidney in the late 1980s, it wasn't the version that people picture now.
53:55
[SPEAKER_04]: It was an all-polished waterfront apartment and that global city branding that we know of now.
54:02
[SPEAKER_04]: You see on television and in the tourist magazines.
54:06
[SPEAKER_04]: It was rougher around the edges, especially once you stepped outside of the post-card areas.
54:12
[SPEAKER_04]: And you had sharp contrast, the wealth, the night life, sitting right next to pockets of poverty, and transience and fucking hobos, and, you know, crackheads or whatnot.
54:25
[SPEAKER_04]: People who'd slip through the cracks, I guess you could literally wax, and King's Cross in particular had a reputation,
54:36
[SPEAKER_04]: But for a more seedy side, the strip clubs, drugs, huckers, the homeless.
54:43
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess in some ways you could say it were a cock suckers paradise.
54:48
[SPEAKER_04]: People drift in the people hustling, people surviving, whatever way they could.
54:54
[SPEAKER_04]: It was an unusual to see groups the young man hanging around late at night with nowhere to go.
55:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, sure some of them were homeless, some work.
55:04
[SPEAKER_04]: And the thing is, most people just learn to navigate around it.
55:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Keep your head down, mind your business, and get the far home.
55:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Sydney was generally considered safe, but like most cities, that safety dependent on where you were, what time it was, but most importantly, who you crossed paths with.
55:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Hi.
55:29
[SPEAKER_04]: And into that environment,
55:34
[SPEAKER_04]: By all accounts, the pretty 20-year-old was trying to build the life herself.
55:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Working out a bank, her and her boyfriend had just bought a home together that they were renting out and, hopefully, saving up to get married, they were still living at home, but eventually they'd plan to move into the home and start a family.
55:51
[SPEAKER_04]: On the night of September 18, 1988, she'd been out in King's Cross with some friends at the work, which wasn't unusual.
56:01
[SPEAKER_04]: It was a nightclub hub, people went there to socialize, unwind, have a drink, and it wasn't inherently reckless to be there.
56:10
[SPEAKER_04]: But at some point, when she'd said goodbye to her friends, it was walking with them.
56:15
[SPEAKER_04]: In the early hours, she found herself alone.
56:19
[SPEAKER_04]: She was split up from the group, walking to her car, at the local train station car park.
56:25
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was there, a group of young men, young, homeless, transient.
56:33
[SPEAKER_04]: They noticed them.
56:35
[SPEAKER_04]: These weren't organized criminals.
56:38
[SPEAKER_04]: They once sophisticated by any means.
56:42
[SPEAKER_04]: But they were most certainly dangerous in a different way.
56:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Wild died.
56:48
[SPEAKER_04]: long-haired, feral, and appearance.
56:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm washed.
56:53
[SPEAKER_04]: A crude mentality, no structure, no accountability.
56:59
[SPEAKER_04]: With nothing to lose.
57:02
[SPEAKER_04]: And they approached them.
57:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Janine saw them coming, and since that something was right, she quickly tried to get into a car and shut the door.
57:12
[SPEAKER_04]: But as she stuck her keys in the ignition,
57:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Someone stuck that foot in the door and stopped it from closing it.
57:19
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was then they set up on her.
57:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Putting a gag over her mouth, pulling her into the back seat.
57:28
[SPEAKER_04]: On the hogtina, like a wild animal.
57:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I should kick.
57:33
[SPEAKER_04]: I'd struggle.
57:35
[SPEAKER_04]: But it was only moments before that another young woman, named Christine Mobiley, had been approached by the same group
57:46
[SPEAKER_04]: But sensing something, she quickly logged herself in a vehicle and drove home.
57:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Where she told her boyfriend about a group who approached her and as she drove away in a rear view mirror, she saw another woman being approached as she was about to get in a car.
58:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Her boyfriend thought it'd be best they call the police, and they told them what had happened.
58:11
[SPEAKER_04]: When the kangaroo riding cops went to the car park, they saw no sign of a group, or no sign of a young woman in distress.
58:21
[SPEAKER_04]: So they laughed.
58:25
[SPEAKER_04]: Once Christine was forced into a car, things escalated quickly.
58:30
[SPEAKER_04]: She was no longer in control.
58:33
[SPEAKER_04]: As she was driven out to an isolated area, and what followed was brutal, and it was prolonged.
58:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Who's around 3 a.m., when Janine hadn't come home that her parents called the police.
58:48
[SPEAKER_04]: And they called her boyfriend, and he also called the police.
58:51
[SPEAKER_04]: When police received the call and found out where Janine had lost been spotted and where she was.
58:57
[SPEAKER_04]: And how she disappeared.
58:58
[SPEAKER_04]: They thought of the earlier call that they'd received from Christine Mobiley,
59:11
[SPEAKER_04]: When I guess they were hoping, I may be praying.
59:16
[SPEAKER_04]: That the two incidents weren't related.
59:19
[SPEAKER_04]: That's bad.
59:21
[SPEAKER_04]: When they spoke to Jeanine's parents and a boyfriend in the morning, who would stayed up all night calling for updates, they didn't want to mention what they thought.
59:33
[SPEAKER_04]: After all, there were other possibilities.
59:36
[SPEAKER_04]: She got drunk, slipped it off at a friend's.
59:42
[SPEAKER_04]: a hookup, but when they spoke to the parents and they spoke to the boy friend, they down the window that wasn't the case.
59:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Now's the day before, early on Thursday, another hot sunny day, at a home of shelter where
1:00:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Steve Shorty, Jameson, age 22, Wayne, Wilmont, age 15, and Carol Arrow, also 15.
1:00:19
[SPEAKER_04]: We're all hanging out on the stoop, at the homeless shelter, just talking shit.
1:00:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And someone said something and no one can quite remember who said it.
1:00:32
[SPEAKER_04]: But they said I want to go kill a Sheila.
1:00:37
[SPEAKER_05]: Is that a young game?
1:00:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, as a woman, same thing.
1:00:44
[SPEAKER_04]: And someone said in the Australian twang, let's go kill a Sheila and for whatever reason, maybe packed mentality, but no one disagreed.
1:00:58
[SPEAKER_04]: And a plan was now in motion.
1:01:02
[SPEAKER_04]: And it remarkably, as it seems, they only met that same day.
1:01:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Until then, they were all unfamiliar with each other.
1:01:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Strangers.
1:01:11
[SPEAKER_04]: All vagrants with a cause, I guess one may likely wax.
1:01:15
[SPEAKER_04]: But they would have known that King's Cross and the Thursday night is bustling.
1:01:20
[SPEAKER_04]: A pretty young thing's drunk, girl.
1:01:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Businessman would back to all its stumbling to the train station, though to catch a cab.
1:01:31
[SPEAKER_04]: The perfect hunting ground for wherever your appetite may take you.
1:01:35
[SPEAKER_04]: It was just after 11 not evening that the group had spotted Christine Moberley, and the car park, and they thought she'd do.
1:01:45
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll let you burn that pretty young.
1:01:49
[SPEAKER_04]: She was a little more straight-smart, she'd been working in the area longer, and she saw it coming and she quickly got in a car and drove away.
1:01:58
[SPEAKER_04]: But they didn't have long to wait because when they turned, pretty Jeanine Baldy walked into their sights, forcing her into her vehicle, where they drove onto the freeway, up the Sydney's west coast, and they stopped there in a abandoned dam, pulling her out
1:02:18
[SPEAKER_04]: They picked her up and pushed her over a fence, and then they dragged her next to the dam, and they stripped her at night point, and they started raping her.
1:02:29
[SPEAKER_05]: That's nerve-fying.
1:02:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Now although five of them were there for the rape, it was only mythu Elliot, age 16, brawns and blessing than age 14.
1:02:41
[SPEAKER_04]: and Steve Shorty, Jamison, age 22, who had raped Janine Balding.
1:02:47
[SPEAKER_04]: The two 15-year-olds, Wayne Wilmont, and Carol Arrow, refused to take part.
1:02:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Wilmont and Arrow were laid a top police.
1:02:58
[SPEAKER_04]: The Matthew Alley had brawn some blessing then, and Steve Shorty, Jamison, had all taken tons on the woman.
1:03:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Focking or in every hole, at God at Givin'a, was the general account.
1:03:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Focusing on sort ofizing a seem to be what they were all enjoying.
1:03:19
[SPEAKER_04]: and the two teens reported witnessing this several times, apparently.
1:03:24
[SPEAKER_04]: With the screams of pleasure and pain, back going into the night.
1:03:29
[SPEAKER_04]: With Carol Arrow saying she was afraid that they were heard and someone would come around because they could see lights in a distant house turn on.
1:03:38
[SPEAKER_04]: And although Balding had been gagged, they could hear her sobbing, pleading for the group to stop.
1:03:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Later, when the groups spoke to police, there would be conflicting reports, who the ringleader was.
1:03:55
[SPEAKER_04]: While there was several accounts that it was Steve Shorty-Jaymanson, the 22-year-old.
1:04:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Others would vary and say it was Bronson Blessington, the 14-year-old.
1:04:06
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's kind of weird.
1:04:08
[SPEAKER_05]: That's the weird part, 14 years old, and they're listening to him.
1:04:12
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's all very strange,
1:04:19
[SPEAKER_04]: And maybe you need balding was more placid because, you know, I can't imagine a group getting you in a car.
1:04:27
[SPEAKER_05]: I'd murder them, they'd be murdered.
1:04:29
[SPEAKER_04]: It just seems weird because they're all kids except for the 22 year old, and, you know, I mean, they would have had the hog tie, that would have taken some effort, but I mean, you know, I don't know how big the knife was, or did they stick the knife to the throat?
1:04:42
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you know, I maybe she went along thinking, if I go along, I'm going to live through this.
1:04:46
[SPEAKER_05]: that's possible.
1:04:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it is and that has been proven a successful way if you're a woman to survive a situation like that.
1:04:59
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, don't sit there and say I'm going to tell a police, I've seen your faces just in hell, just go along, stay live another day and then get your justice later.
1:05:08
[SPEAKER_04]: And of course, with limited information on this, we can only hypothesize what happened.
1:05:14
[SPEAKER_04]: But it must have been a horrifying fact that was the case.
1:05:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Or in any case.
1:05:18
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, of course.
1:05:19
[SPEAKER_05]: And there she is, like, playing along, playing ball with the whole thing.
1:05:22
[SPEAKER_05]: Being a team player, hey, Agohead, you rate me.
1:05:26
[SPEAKER_05]: I'll probably get let go.
1:05:28
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's the terrifying moment where you realize, oh crap.
1:05:32
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not growing anywhere.
1:05:34
[SPEAKER_04]: And of course, we're only being on Chad detectives here.
1:05:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:05:38
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, we have no idea what happened at that time.
1:05:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Because no one knows what the individuals who are there.
1:05:44
[SPEAKER_04]: But for a production case as such as this, I often reference the Ken and Barbie murders where they killed Leslie Mahafi quicker because she was crying and sobbing and she was just a mess.
1:05:57
[SPEAKER_04]: And they let Kristen French live longer because she went along with it.
1:06:03
[SPEAKER_04]: And by Bernardo's account, she seemingly befriended Carla and got her to loosen the restraints, and then she tried to escape, and he claimed at least that Carla beat her to death with a rubber mallet, which I don't think is totally unfeasible.
1:06:21
[SPEAKER_05]: Another weird case, yes.
1:06:23
[SPEAKER_04]: But of course, we're never going to really know what happened, and we can only hypothesis.
1:06:29
[SPEAKER_04]: But one thing we do know was it was an extremely brutal,
1:06:34
[SPEAKER_05]: yeah it's horrible like I was reading that it was horrendous what they did and just unthinkable you know and these other two that are just watching where they getting off on this what are they having sex
1:06:49
[SPEAKER_04]: I doubt it, they were just kids.
1:06:51
[SPEAKER_04]: My guess is that they were scared, just scared chill us, just wondering how do we get out of this situation without joining her?
1:06:58
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
1:06:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Because that's not forget that these kids are a feral in the truest sense.
1:07:04
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know,
1:07:06
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it would be very difficult for someone to step forward and say, hey, you know, come on, let's live, this isn't right, let's, you know, let's all, you know, turn around, go home.
1:07:13
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, Carol, arrow, she was only 15.
1:07:16
[SPEAKER_04]: And Wayne, well, man, apparently he was very slight and a small guy, he was only 15.
1:07:21
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, I mean, they just, I, I would say that they would just be scared.
1:07:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you're into that frenzy sort of, um,
1:07:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Although I got to say that if we're out with my buddies and we said, hey, let's kill a Sheila.
1:07:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, first of all, I'd say, I'd say, what's a Sheila?
1:07:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
1:07:38
[SPEAKER_04]: Because we don't use that vernacular.
1:07:39
[SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, the second thing I would have said is, hey, come on, like, loosen up guys.
1:07:43
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, the parties get a little intense and, you know, I want to go home.
1:07:46
[SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, they don't have home, but you know what I mean?
1:07:49
[SPEAKER_04]: The point is, is they stayed with that group.
1:07:52
[SPEAKER_04]: After they'd left the stoop knowing there was an intention to kill someone.
1:07:56
[SPEAKER_05]: Right, because there's nothing else to do, you know, for all those people.
1:08:00
[SPEAKER_05]: They have no other entertainment, so yeah.
1:08:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, you know, although it was homeless shelter, they probably didn't have video games back then, because there's 1988, but I'm sure they had jigsaw puzzles aboard games to something, I mean, with the fuck.
1:08:12
[SPEAKER_04]: But they are saying again that it was that sort of that group, that group mentality, feeding off of each other.
1:08:19
[SPEAKER_04]: But also, I mean, except for the 22-year-old, they are very young.
1:08:25
[SPEAKER_04]: But anyway, at some point, join this rape weather tour watching and the three are taking part.
1:08:31
[SPEAKER_04]: A decision was made that they weren't going to let Janine balding leave their alive.
1:08:38
[SPEAKER_04]: And the general consensus of the police when they spoke to these individuals was once again, Max, they couldn't figure out if it was the 14-year-old blessing than who was in charge or if it was Steve Shorty-James in the 22-year-old who were calling the shots.
1:08:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Although apparently it was Shorty, who sealed Janine's fate.
1:08:56
[SPEAKER_04]: After fucking a down near the dam, he murdered the words, it's a nice night for a murder.
1:09:02
[SPEAKER_04]: And one can only imagine when you need heard those words to fear that engulfed her.
1:09:08
[SPEAKER_04]: They made her right the pin numbers to her bank cards down.
1:09:13
[SPEAKER_04]: and she was horrified.
1:09:14
[SPEAKER_04]: As she must have offered life, and apparently there was signs that she had put up a fight.
1:09:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Her nails were broken, shed flesh, under those nails, scratches and bruises all over her body.
1:09:27
[SPEAKER_04]: And the last moments of her life must have been horrific.
1:09:32
[SPEAKER_04]: They pulled all her jewelry offer, including her engagement ring.
1:09:36
[SPEAKER_04]: And then the three boys, men, or whatever you want to call them, include in Matthew Elliott, Broughts and Blessing Ten, and showed you Jamison.
1:09:46
[SPEAKER_04]: They dragged her down to the dam, and they held her under the water, and they drowned them.
1:09:53
[SPEAKER_05]: That's really tragic part.
1:09:55
[SPEAKER_05]: That is heartbreaking.
1:09:57
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, I could only imagine that thoughts going through or had the last seconds of her life.
1:10:06
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, it's an off-one as well as like, you know, you get the strangulation, you get to the bit drowning her.
1:10:12
[SPEAKER_05]: That's terrifying.
1:10:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, that is very terrifying.
1:10:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, what a horrible way to go, and I'm guessing she was still tied up.
1:10:24
[SPEAKER_04]: And after they knew she was dead, they left, and they went on a spend and spree with her credit cards and bank cards, and, uh,
1:10:33
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's where our body was subsequently found by the kangaroo riding cops, a couple of days later.
1:10:43
[SPEAKER_04]: And although veterans of the Force, they were just taken back by the sheer brutality of the crime.
1:10:50
[SPEAKER_05]: It really is, and you know, these people, these homeless people, they're nothing, for the most part, they're nothing but a problem where they go.
1:10:57
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, have these young kids, they're impressionable, and the surprising part, not what this is, is 14-year-old, was really leading them, not the 22-year-old.
1:11:09
[SPEAKER_05]: Where did they even get the idea to do this?
1:11:12
[SPEAKER_04]: While psychologists would testify that it was the group think the herd mentality, where they just all fed off of each other, and that individually none of them would have committed this crime.
1:11:25
[SPEAKER_04]: OK.
1:11:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, whether or not we want to put greens in what these eggheads are saying, I mean, that's another thing.
1:11:33
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's another thing, Jasmer.
1:11:36
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, I'm not sure what excuses the two other kids, the teens, or whatever you call them, used for not wanting to take part.
1:11:46
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, but, you know, Carol Arrow, I mean, she's 15-year-old girl, so where's she going to do?
1:11:51
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, go down on her.
1:11:52
[SPEAKER_05]: They're probably.
1:11:54
[SPEAKER_04]: And then, Wilmont, I mean, he just didn't have the stomach for it, I guess.
1:12:01
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean at some point, you gotta make a decision.
1:12:05
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, I'm whether you gotta take part in it.
1:12:07
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I'll give it a miss.
1:12:08
[SPEAKER_05]: But I'll just watch from the sidelines.
1:12:10
[SPEAKER_04]: And, well, we, you know, we don't know if they watched what they did.
1:12:14
[SPEAKER_04]: But you gotta remember that these individuals all just met that day, that morning.
1:12:18
[SPEAKER_04]: So they don't know each other.
1:12:20
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you know, if you're a 15 year old and you got these, well, but you're around you and you're in a car in your middle of fucking nowhere, it might not be the time to take a moral high ground.
1:12:30
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's a distinct possibility they might may have thought of by voice and it concerns here.
1:12:35
[SPEAKER_04]: I may be floating at the bottom there with the ears as well.
1:12:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you got to think about like being that age again.
1:12:42
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm not justifying what he did.
1:12:43
[SPEAKER_05]: And then you get caught up with some people you meet for the day.
1:12:46
[SPEAKER_05]: Let's say you're playing hooky.
1:12:47
[SPEAKER_05]: And then you're just wandering around town with these people.
1:12:50
[SPEAKER_05]: Just going along with things, you know.
1:12:55
[SPEAKER_05]: Needed something like that to me, didn't you, like, meet up with unsavory people at some point or another, and you're used?
1:13:01
[SPEAKER_04]: We were the unsavory people, Jasmine.
1:13:05
[SPEAKER_04]: My mother used to tell me I was a bad seed.
1:13:07
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, and you weren't raping people and murdering them.
1:13:10
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly the Mondo, Jasmine.
1:13:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly the Mondo.
1:13:13
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, at the end of the day, everybody has a moral compass.
1:13:17
[SPEAKER_04]: It's whether you choose to let it lead you or not.
1:13:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, it didn't take the cops too long to close in on who had done this word on the street, and everybody pointed in the gang's direction.
1:13:34
[SPEAKER_04]: After all, they've been selling the jewelry and using the credit cards and suddenly blessing them, had a water cash, and it was him and this Elliott guy who were bragging to another street kid of what they've done and how good it was, and I mean, it didn't take long.
1:13:51
[SPEAKER_04]: For the cops to move in, I mean, he wrote a blessing that already had a strong reputation for commit crime in the area.
1:14:01
[SPEAKER_04]: But the cops admitted that it was Christy and Mopoli and a boyfriend forming the police that night and telling what she'd seen and ordered happened to her was the strongest compass that led them to the killers.
1:14:14
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, at least she did something, you know?
1:14:17
[SPEAKER_05]: It takes its courageous because some people just want to stay out of it, and that's how these things happen.
1:14:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Like a fucking buddy, the florist.
1:14:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I just want to see it.
1:14:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, even when it's our fucking friend.
1:14:31
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't, you're saying, oh, damn bug, you're obsessed with this guy.
1:14:33
[SPEAKER_04]: Why are you right up?
1:14:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, maybe I will, jazz.
1:14:36
[SPEAKER_04]: Would you think about that?
1:14:37
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm fucking right up.
1:14:38
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no.
1:14:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well, never in the end.
1:14:42
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know about you.
1:14:44
[SPEAKER_05]: But yeah, you just stay.
1:14:47
[SPEAKER_05]: she did call the cops and that was the right thing to do because there's this innocent woman there and you know things are off, when someone's missing, when you see people pull on them and to call you just know things are off.
1:14:59
[SPEAKER_05]: And more and more people these days do not step up or do anything.
1:15:03
[SPEAKER_05]: They just mind.
1:15:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I agree.
1:15:04
[SPEAKER_05]: And go about 30.
1:15:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:15:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, I agree.
1:15:09
[SPEAKER_04]: And I suppose the example of that Herman guy, Michael Herman going and knocking on everybody's door.
1:15:15
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I can't, I'm gonna keep coming back to him, eh?
1:15:18
[SPEAKER_04]: No, but I mean, people didn't answer the door.
1:15:20
[SPEAKER_04]: But, I mean, I got it met.
1:15:21
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you're in Hollywood Hills, the someone's banging on your door.
1:15:24
[SPEAKER_04]: I wouldn't answer it either.
1:15:25
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, look what happened to a scene of the met, to the Shard Tates House.
1:15:31
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I'm in especially when you got a fucking rage in Queen Bang and I knew I'd just turn up my fucking stereo.
1:15:38
[SPEAKER_04]: I put my headphones on ignore it myself.
1:15:42
[SPEAKER_04]: But when the kangaroo riding cops started catching up with these homeless terrorways, I mean, that's certainly one of the loyalty.
1:15:53
[SPEAKER_04]: And they all started singing like a retard with a Mr. microphone on Christmas morning.
1:15:59
[SPEAKER_04]: They were no loyalty's Jasmine.
1:16:01
[SPEAKER_04]: All friendships were dropped.
1:16:03
[SPEAKER_05]: Yep.
1:16:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Nobody owed nobody nothing.
1:16:06
[SPEAKER_05]: They have to, it's like, it's each man for himself.
1:16:10
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, not that they had much of a life going on outside.
1:16:12
[SPEAKER_05]: So maybe, you know, actually maybe they shouldn't have been singing.
1:16:16
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe they're better off, you know, perhaps thinking about life in jail,
1:16:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, exactly.
1:16:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, they found out that this, you know, that this shorty james and guy.
1:16:30
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
1:16:30
[SPEAKER_04]: And you said you saw a picture of one of them.
1:16:32
[SPEAKER_04]: And he looked like a mango.
1:16:33
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I think that's more like I'm looking at it now.
1:16:36
[SPEAKER_05]: I think that's more of, uh, we're moving ahead of ourselves.
1:16:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, okay.
1:16:43
[SPEAKER_04]: So, oh, so you're talking about afterwards.
1:16:45
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
1:16:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Like he is afterwards.
1:16:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
1:16:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
1:16:48
[SPEAKER_05]: So we'll get, we'll get what I'm sure they look like mongloids by the way.
1:16:51
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm 100% sure.
1:16:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Other papers who ever said they look like a mongo or was it you?
1:16:56
[SPEAKER_05]: I said that.
1:16:58
[SPEAKER_04]: You said you said mongolid and then I shortened it the mongol because it's more catchy now Shorty james in the 22 year old.
1:17:06
[SPEAKER_04]: He was drugged out and intoxicated when they arrested him But he came clean and admitted it right away one of the 14 year olds blessing then he said that the girl wanted to hang out with him And she wanted the party.
1:17:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, okay.
1:17:19
[SPEAKER_04]: That's really sad and I had and uh Lay like yeah, pretty long wants to like get our fucking kicks with a bunch of bunch of fucking hobos
1:17:27
[SPEAKER_05]: Especially someone that's a respectable community member.
1:17:31
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I want to go hang out with a bunch of fucking bumps.
1:17:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, exactly.
1:17:35
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you know, they said that she were willing.
1:17:37
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, she went and she everything she did with them was willing.
1:17:42
[SPEAKER_04]: And they were all getting hired together.
1:17:43
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was when she, after that sex, she said she wasn't on the pill.
1:17:49
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's when they decided to kill her.
1:17:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And then, of course, he recanted all of that.
1:17:57
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, so I don't want this woman that's actually a functioning member of society to have my child.
1:18:07
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'm a homeless loser.
1:18:08
[SPEAKER_05]: So let me go ahead and murder her.
1:18:10
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
1:18:10
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I believe it.
1:18:11
[SPEAKER_05]: I really do.
1:18:12
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, me too.
1:18:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Me too.
1:18:14
[SPEAKER_04]: And you can't even imagine what was on his mind to make that up.
1:18:17
[SPEAKER_04]: But apparently, they were all intoxicated, which again, would be a sticking point when we're talking about that rights being violated.
1:18:25
[SPEAKER_04]: And although we all know that that isn't true, I can't even in the father's patch and my imagination imagined during her horrific attack of her being concerned about not being on the pill.
1:18:40
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they knew that this guy was a fantasist.
1:18:45
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, Mon and Arrow, that do 15-year-old who didn't take part in the sexual assault,
1:18:55
[SPEAKER_04]: which fell in line with witnesses, the crime scene report, and the autopsy.
1:19:02
[SPEAKER_04]: And they said that they were too terrified to kick up a fuss.
1:19:06
[SPEAKER_05]: Of course they did.
1:19:08
[SPEAKER_05]: They had to.
1:19:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, at the end of the day, Jasmine, they just said what had happened.
1:19:13
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they didn't embellish and make it up or anything.
1:19:15
[SPEAKER_04]: They just said, this is what happened.
1:19:18
[SPEAKER_04]: And it fell in line with all the points, like I said, the autopsy, the investigation, and the witness were the others lied, and though they were all over the place.
1:19:26
[SPEAKER_04]: And that one of these guys, most likely, Blessington had said, let's go kill Ashila.
1:19:31
[SPEAKER_04]: And they'd all gone out with that specific mission, I guess, to rape and kill Ashila.
1:19:37
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is what the group was charged with.
1:19:43
[SPEAKER_04]: The judge said that the three main ringleaders who took part in the rapes shall never be released, and it was March of the following year that Matthew James Elliot H. 16 Bronson, Matthew Blessington, H.14 and Stephen Wayne, Shorty, Jameson, H.22 or each given a life sentence plus 25 years, a guess for good luck
1:20:09
[SPEAKER_05]: What does that mean plus 25 years?
1:20:12
[SPEAKER_05]: So when you're reincarnated, if you believe in that type of crap,
1:20:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, the judge said they were discussing individuals and that they would never see the light of day.
1:20:23
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess he figured maybe just in case some of them would have a long lifespan.
1:20:28
[SPEAKER_04]: He threw on the 25 years, just to make sure, I don't know.
1:20:32
[SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, there's all those things aren't they in law or whatever they say that give you a life sentence and someone gets out and fucking, you know, whatever.
1:20:39
[SPEAKER_04]: But let's say they're going to be in a for a long time, I guess one would hope.
1:20:43
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, Wilmont was sentenced to seven, seven and a half and years.
1:20:47
[SPEAKER_04]: because he had apparently hogtida.
1:20:51
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
1:20:52
[SPEAKER_05]: He should have gotten more seven and a half years.
1:20:56
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
1:20:57
[SPEAKER_05]: He helped her to strain her, so no, he should be more like life.
1:21:02
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, Arrow, Carol and Arrow, the 15-year-old girl, she was released on Good Behavior.
1:21:10
[SPEAKER_05]: you know this debate I mean she's 15 years old she is a girl what was she thinking I mean she just said she was caught up in it she was never for it you know if 15 years old I mean I don't know yeah I mean I think she should have gotten something like a slap on a bigger slap as she should have gotten more than just oh you get out on the behavior she should still be either in jail or on some kind of strict parole
1:21:36
[SPEAKER_05]: But I understand it 15, she's probably scared.
1:21:39
[SPEAKER_05]: She doesn't know what to do.
1:21:41
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not defending her by the way, but I think that she should have done more time.
1:21:47
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, in the UK, I don't know how it is in the States anymore, because I don't live there, but in the UK, I mean, they don't even identify these people.
1:21:54
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, if you kill someone in your under fucking 17 here, you might as well, you know, you can get away with it.
1:22:00
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like, you know, they're just they consider them children.
1:22:03
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
1:22:04
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, a lot of them these days are a lot of older emotionally, then we give them credit for.
1:22:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:22:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, it will exactly.
1:22:12
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I mean, like I said, when I'm on a kid, we were like fucking stealing cars and everything else.
1:22:16
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we were just like, we're fucking criminals.
1:22:21
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they were good times.
1:22:22
[SPEAKER_04]: They'll get me wrong.
1:22:22
[SPEAKER_04]: But so we, so, but the defendant, so the
1:22:28
[SPEAKER_04]: the justice in the sentencing the defendants justice said, I guess he was defending me said to sentence people so young to a long-term imprisonment is of course a heavy task, however the facts surrounding.
1:22:41
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is the guy of sentence of the judge.
1:22:43
[SPEAKER_04]: He said the facts surrounding the crime are so barbaric.
1:22:50
[SPEAKER_04]: that I believe no alternative other than to impose on these young prisoners, even despite the rage, a life sentence, because that is rare.
1:22:58
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, when you're talking, I mean, when you're giving a life sentence, I mean, blessing them no matter how bad he is, he is 14 fucking years old.
1:23:08
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he's a child.
1:23:11
[SPEAKER_04]: He is a child, so this guy said, I know these are fucking kids.
1:23:19
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, except for the 22-year-old and but he he's saying I know that these are kids, but he said the crime is so barbaric that I believe I have no alternative other than to impose upon these young prisoners, even despite their age, a life sentence.
1:23:31
[SPEAKER_04]: I agree with you.
1:23:32
[SPEAKER_04]: So great.
1:23:33
[SPEAKER_05]: It's good.
1:23:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:23:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:23:35
[SPEAKER_05]: It took her life away.
1:23:36
[SPEAKER_05]: And if if judges continuously
1:23:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Uh, you know, not sympathize, but if they don't impose life sentences on young kids who go around murdering people and doing such heinous things, you're sending the message that it's okay if you're underage to get away with this shit.
1:23:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I mean, you know, I mean, exactly.
1:24:01
[SPEAKER_04]: And I mean, I'd be interesting enough they had a new family who showed up.
1:24:08
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I wouldn't want to fire their family who's just embarrassing.
1:24:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:24:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Sorry, son.
1:24:14
[SPEAKER_04]: This is embarrassing.
1:24:16
[SPEAKER_04]: This is embarrassing.
1:24:17
[SPEAKER_04]: You going out killing chill isn't all?
1:24:23
[SPEAKER_04]: This is embarrassing.
1:24:24
[SPEAKER_04]: It's.
1:24:28
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you see enough TV shows where there's a bad egg in the family.
1:24:32
[SPEAKER_05]: And then it reflects badly upon the parents somehow.
1:24:35
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, bad up, bringing and stuff like that.
1:24:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Those are normal families, by the way, but something like this.
1:24:43
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I just made me the pair who knows, if these kids had competent parents, were they crazy, were they even around, were they in the trailer?
1:24:53
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, where were they?
1:24:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:24:55
[SPEAKER_05]: where they alcoholics, they were just so much into their own other world that, oh, okay, whatever.
1:25:01
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, they weren't paying attention.
1:25:04
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, the, the sentencing of Blessington and Elliott, you know, obviously not the 22-year-old, became a topic of extreme controversy.
1:25:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah.
1:25:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Because at the time,
1:25:20
[SPEAKER_04]: They committed murder in their resentance.
1:25:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I said, there were 14 and 16 years old, which was legally children, respectively.
1:25:27
[SPEAKER_04]: And becoming the youngest killers in Australia to be convicted and given them, becoming the longest, the youngest killers in Australia to be convicted and given a maximum sentence to murder.
1:25:44
[SPEAKER_04]: Now apparently the DNA findings that we used to convict Matthew Elliott, Brought some blessing, ten, and Stephen Shorty, Jamison.
1:25:53
[SPEAKER_04]: It was the first time that DNA technology was used to convict anyone in Australia, which I find fascinating.
1:26:03
[SPEAKER_04]: But this same technology that convicts at these youths is currently causing controversy and people asking for retrial,
1:26:14
[SPEAKER_04]: The 22-year-old Steve Shorty Jamison is now claiming that he wasn't even there.
1:26:20
[SPEAKER_04]: That it was a case of mistaken identity and he'd been wrongly accused any saying that the DNA testing is wrong.
1:26:28
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, because they didn't know what they were doing, it was 1988 they were Australian so they're backwards anyways.
1:26:33
[SPEAKER_04]: His words not mine.
1:26:34
[SPEAKER_04]: And apparently there's another guy named Shorty hanging out in the area and they figured it might be him.
1:26:39
[SPEAKER_04]: Because, you know, DNA technology can be questioned.
1:26:44
[SPEAKER_04]: But they must have found these guys jizz in the results.
1:26:48
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, that's where the convertible.
1:26:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Which there's a bit of a twist on that coming up.
1:26:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Now at the trial, although they were warned how horrific it was going to be in the pitches, the crime scene pitches and whatnot that we're going to be shown of the data.
1:27:00
[SPEAKER_04]: Both parents, they refused to miss it.
1:27:03
[SPEAKER_04]: They have the trial.
1:27:05
[SPEAKER_04]: And they sat there front row for the whole thing.
1:27:09
[SPEAKER_04]: And they wash it all.
1:27:11
[SPEAKER_04]: And
1:27:12
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I guess they wanted to, you know, in God bless them, I guess they wanted to see justice, justice done, justice served, and then we're going to back down.
1:27:24
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, it's going to be heartbreaking to sit there and listen to all these gruesome details if you're a child's last moments alive.
1:27:33
[SPEAKER_04]: and to hear that she was just that close to getting her keys in the ignition and getting away and they just literally dragged her out of the driver's seat and, you know, threw her in the back.
1:27:46
[SPEAKER_05]: God.
1:27:46
[SPEAKER_05]: Why didn't she just drive on, run them over?
1:27:48
[SPEAKER_04]: But what because I got to her before she could, you know, she was like, I guess she was like trying to put a keys in there and trying to get away and they gagged over the scarf, the hogtide.
1:28:01
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, throw in the back Satan, you know, there's probably violence involved.
1:28:06
[SPEAKER_05]: And by the way, you're quick right now.
1:28:08
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm upset this before about the mongloid.
1:28:10
[SPEAKER_05]: It was Jameson's photo.
1:28:12
[SPEAKER_05]: He does look like a fricking mongloid, like an ape or something.
1:28:15
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, yeah, he does sort of...
1:28:16
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, sure.
1:28:17
[SPEAKER_04]: He was not a truck.
1:28:18
[SPEAKER_04]: Look like a pre-drawn man, like a caveman.
1:28:20
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, to be honest with you, I've seen quite a few Australian men who look very similar to that.
1:28:25
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, of them.
1:28:26
[SPEAKER_05]: There are some hot Australian guys there.
1:28:28
[SPEAKER_05]: Oh, I know.
1:28:31
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm just messing with you, Jeff.
1:28:32
[SPEAKER_05]: They're not a hot as you are, I know.
1:28:35
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
1:28:36
[SPEAKER_04]: It's too late now.
1:28:37
[SPEAKER_04]: And now I know you've got a heart out of frost jelly and it's not going to start like jazz.
1:28:41
[SPEAKER_05]: As long as you're good looking.
1:28:43
[SPEAKER_04]: You don't mind you're not okay.
1:28:46
[SPEAKER_04]: So who did you say look like the Mongo?
1:28:48
[SPEAKER_04]: Shorty.
1:28:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Shorty's the 22 year old who's now saying that he wasn't even there.
1:28:53
[SPEAKER_05]: No, no, 14 year old.
1:28:55
[SPEAKER_05]: No way.
1:28:55
[SPEAKER_05]: Hold on.
1:28:56
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes, just 22 year old.
1:28:57
[SPEAKER_05]: Sorry.
1:28:58
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, he's now saying it's a case of mistaken identity.
1:29:01
[SPEAKER_04]: And the twist is that the others say he wasn't there either for some reason.
1:29:05
[SPEAKER_04]: And there are a lot of left-wing softies who say this guy needs a retrial.
1:29:09
[SPEAKER_04]: Now, 2007, Bronson, Blessington, and Matthew Elliott were granted an additional appeal.
1:29:17
[SPEAKER_04]: And this was apparently because papers filed by the prosecution had been missing a paperclip, meaning the files could be deemed incomplete.
1:29:29
[SPEAKER_04]: Apparently.
1:29:30
[SPEAKER_04]: And they tried to get released or a new trial based on that, but the judge weren't buying it and basically told the fuck off, you know, nice try.
1:29:40
[SPEAKER_04]: But regardless of this human rights in child rights organizations around the world are raged by this case and they say that it is in just, per unjust.
1:29:54
[SPEAKER_04]: And who knows, maybe I'm turning a bit left in my old age, but I have to agree that I'll never get out life sentence for 14-year-old is, that means pretty messed up.
1:30:08
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's pretty messed up.
1:30:09
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you might as well just put them to death.
1:30:12
[SPEAKER_04]: It locks up and off forever forever.
1:30:14
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's what the judge's basically said forever.
1:30:17
[SPEAKER_04]: You're never going to get out.
1:30:18
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's where that plus 25 comes in.
1:30:21
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, I mean, I don't know.
1:30:25
[SPEAKER_05]: No, I think because of the crime,
1:30:28
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
1:30:29
[SPEAKER_04]: So you got no problem with it.
1:30:30
[SPEAKER_05]: I think he should have just stayed.
1:30:32
[SPEAKER_05]: He had no issue with it.
1:30:33
[SPEAKER_05]: He should have uh he should have stayed there.
1:30:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
1:30:37
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, this is, I mean, in October 14th, the United Nations of Human Rights Committee, you know, as a fucking world ruled that the sentences of blessing to him.
1:30:46
[SPEAKER_04]: It was 14.
1:30:48
[SPEAKER_04]: when the crime was committed, he was the ringleader.
1:30:51
[SPEAKER_04]: The blessing to an and Elliot age 16 breached international covenant civil and political rights.
1:30:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So like it breached human rights of the convention of rights for the children.
1:31:03
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, these are a fucking rules for a reason, jazz.
1:31:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Like I know you're fucking laughing here, but you know, these are rules for fucking reason.
1:31:12
[SPEAKER_04]: These, you know, these fucking Australians are just like saying, ah fuck, fuck it.
1:31:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Fuck it, we'll break our own rules.
1:31:17
[SPEAKER_04]: What are Australia?
1:31:18
[SPEAKER_04]: We're an island.
1:31:20
[SPEAKER_04]: Fuck it.
1:31:22
[SPEAKER_05]: It seems like it.
1:31:23
[SPEAKER_04]: So in 2016, blessing 10 lodged in appeal.
1:31:28
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a long time ago, you think about 2016, it just seems like yesterday, has 10 fucking years ago.
1:31:35
[SPEAKER_04]: So 2016, blessing 10 lodged in appeal to be released from prison, given he was only 14 at the time.
1:31:41
[SPEAKER_04]: And I can't help but think how long ago that was.
1:31:46
[SPEAKER_05]: It really is, you know, was she ever seen her life again, though?
1:31:50
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, her life was taken away.
1:31:52
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, no, I know.
1:31:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I know, yeah.
1:31:54
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm glad he's, I'm glad he was in it for that one.
1:31:57
[SPEAKER_04]: I know, I'm getting soft there, and I just, I'm getting soft in my old age.
1:32:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Jesus.
1:32:01
[SPEAKER_05]: She got a stop, get her, okay, she'd be harder.
1:32:04
[SPEAKER_04]: I will, yeah, okay.
1:32:06
[SPEAKER_04]: But, you know, so he's apparently, he's found God.
1:32:11
[SPEAKER_04]: Jazz, you know what that's like?
1:32:12
[SPEAKER_04]: He found God.
1:32:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Every single man I've known in prison, every single criminal found God.
1:32:21
[SPEAKER_05]: They found Jesus, give me a fucking boy.
1:32:24
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, just, just, you're coming.
1:32:25
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, some of them found God.
1:32:27
[SPEAKER_05]: All right, fine.
1:32:28
[SPEAKER_04]: It'd be a becoming jaded, just, just, you become jaded, yeah.
1:32:32
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just, you know, okay, okay, I'm not gonna get into.
1:32:35
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll talk at once, we stop recording, and you and I can argue it out a bit.
1:32:38
[SPEAKER_04]: But yes, that was a wicked laugh, what are you thinking?
1:32:45
[SPEAKER_05]: It's my normal laugh.
1:32:47
[SPEAKER_04]: As a wicked one, though, Jesus, I'm a bit scared.
1:32:49
[SPEAKER_04]: I just may hang up, I could say bye, I just disconnect.
1:32:53
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'll show up on your doorstep.
1:32:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Block my number and then, yeah, so he says he's found God, but yeah, I mean, it's like he said, they've all...
1:33:02
[SPEAKER_04]: It's possible.
1:33:02
[SPEAKER_04]: They all found fucking God.
1:33:05
[SPEAKER_04]: But I do believe as you get older, you have remorse for your past deeds.
1:33:08
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm not always, but I mean, I do think you look back.
1:33:12
[SPEAKER_04]: A lot of people look back.
1:33:13
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's just part of growing up.
1:33:15
[SPEAKER_04]: You look back and you sometimes you do feel back for things that you've done.
1:33:19
[SPEAKER_04]: Not me per se, but I mean, someone must, I think.
1:33:22
[SPEAKER_04]: I read about it once in some fucking book.
1:33:25
[SPEAKER_04]: But so he said he found God.
1:33:28
[SPEAKER_04]: He was remorseful for his actions.
1:33:33
[SPEAKER_04]: and that he was a change, that he was a change man.
1:33:35
[SPEAKER_04]: He had a fuck you.
1:33:35
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, for me, I'm sort of like that.
1:33:38
[SPEAKER_04]: It's so easy to say that.
1:33:39
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they get up in front and they're going to say that.
1:33:41
[SPEAKER_04]: Because you're going to say whatever you need to say, don't you?
1:33:44
[SPEAKER_05]: Of course.
1:33:44
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, it is possible he did start feeling remorse.
1:33:49
[SPEAKER_02]: It's got worse.
1:33:49
[SPEAKER_05]: He did fine, cod.
1:33:50
[SPEAKER_05]: But did he really, you know, do you really feel as though he could be let out into society?
1:33:56
[SPEAKER_05]: with that causing harm to another human being ever again.
1:33:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me see what was he like, he was like, fuck 14 and 88.
1:34:02
[SPEAKER_05]: So... possible.
1:34:04
[SPEAKER_04]: So I mean, he's like, he's in his 50s.
1:34:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Now I was near.
1:34:06
[SPEAKER_04]: No, he's like, yeah.
1:34:08
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, he's late, late 40s, early 50s.
1:34:10
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know my mother, and so good.
1:34:12
[SPEAKER_04]: But he says he's a changed person.
1:34:16
[SPEAKER_04]: Despite these claims, Jenny's family reported that nearly three decades
1:34:24
[SPEAKER_04]: they have not received a formal apology from any of these convicted persons.
1:34:34
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, it's trailer trash.
1:34:35
[SPEAKER_05]: What do you expect?
1:34:36
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, they don't care.
1:34:38
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, they don't care about other people.
1:34:41
[SPEAKER_05]: Of course, they're never going to issue an apology.
1:34:43
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe there's some part of them that feels that they're the victims because their youth was stolen.
1:34:48
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, guess what?
1:34:49
[SPEAKER_05]: You took away her life.
1:34:55
[SPEAKER_04]: You're not feeling it, are ya?
1:34:57
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm not feeling it.
1:34:58
[SPEAKER_05]: No formal apology whatsoever.
1:35:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:35:03
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
1:35:03
[SPEAKER_05]: Given apology, even Jody Arius gave an apology.
1:35:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, maybe.
1:35:08
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe.
1:35:09
[SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, you know, what were her motives for apologizing?
1:35:12
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, we all know that she was playing the victim.
1:35:16
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, to be playing the victim, then she's gonna have to apologize.
1:35:20
[SPEAKER_04]: She can't be playing the strong silent type.
1:35:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's true.
1:35:24
[SPEAKER_04]: And besides Travis Alexander, I mean, some people saw him as a player who got played and they, you know, they didn't show any tears from him.
1:35:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Whereas, Jeanine Baldwin, she was a young woman.
1:35:35
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, what a future.
1:35:36
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, this is just an innocent woman.
1:35:37
[SPEAKER_05]: There was nothing threatening.
1:35:39
[SPEAKER_05]: And she gets murdered by some strangers.
1:35:42
[SPEAKER_05]: Raped and murdered by strangers.
1:35:43
[SPEAKER_05]: People she's never met in her life.
1:35:46
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you know, she was out, you know, I don't know if she was a little tipsy or whatever.
1:35:50
[SPEAKER_04]: We don't know, but she was sick from friends after work and she came across these opportunists.
1:35:59
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I don't know.
1:36:00
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I was going to come up with this big broad statement there.
1:36:05
[SPEAKER_04]: There are no winners in this, uh, which is true.
1:36:09
[SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, at the end of the day, I mean, those, the one guy got seven and a half years, the one girl walked, walked free.
1:36:15
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, of course.
1:36:16
[SPEAKER_04]: But because this is such a high profile horrific case, I would like to learn more about the others.
1:36:22
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, if there is any plans that have a lot
1:36:28
[SPEAKER_05]: No, they're still in there.
1:36:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Fucking so well.
1:36:31
[SPEAKER_05]: And rightfully so.
1:36:33
[SPEAKER_04]: So they said when Lindsay Wilmont, so he's one of those who did, he was sentenced, oh, they said it was, he was sentenced to nine years and four months, imprisonment later extended by six months for escaping law, for custody, and he's, so he fucking escaped the fuck.
1:36:49
[SPEAKER_04]: So this guy's no remorse.
1:36:52
[SPEAKER_05]: He just wants to get back out there and you know, um, maybe kill a Sheila again.
1:36:57
[SPEAKER_05]: Who knows?
1:36:59
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but apparently he's currently as of today.
1:37:01
[SPEAKER_04]: So even when he was, it just shows he's people about apples.
1:37:05
[SPEAKER_04]: The fucking bad apples.
1:37:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you remember that song by the
1:37:22
[SPEAKER_04]: I think I hurt myself too, sing in that button.
1:37:25
[SPEAKER_04]: I've got a pain in my balls.
1:37:29
[SPEAKER_04]: So apparently get this.
1:37:30
[SPEAKER_04]: So this Wayne guy, he was only, he's only sentenced, originally just seven and a half months.
1:37:35
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, seven and a half years.
1:37:37
[SPEAKER_04]: And he's currently incarcerated still for multiple parole violations, which just goes to show that these are fucking shit bags.
1:37:46
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, these people never had any intent of acclimating to society.
1:37:50
[SPEAKER_05]: They had no intent of ever reintegrated themselves and properly, you know, and being decent human beings.
1:37:58
[SPEAKER_05]: They're just bad people that do bad things.
1:38:02
[SPEAKER_05]: Innocent people.
1:38:03
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I mean, Carolyn Ero, she was sentenced to three years.
1:38:09
[SPEAKER_04]: but got off on a good, but on a good behavior bond.
1:38:12
[SPEAKER_04]: But she disappeared off the radar.
1:38:14
[SPEAKER_04]: She's never been heard of again.
1:38:15
[SPEAKER_04]: She's never gotten trouble.
1:38:17
[SPEAKER_04]: Which, you hear stuff for me?
1:38:19
[SPEAKER_05]: Probably Noah, that we know of.
1:38:21
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
1:38:24
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
1:38:24
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm of that mind that she was just a girl going along with it, you know, that she was, you know, I know if it's a rock time.
1:38:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I know, I know you're a little dubious here, a little harder on, I guess I'm a male.
1:38:40
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I don't know.
1:38:42
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, but I just, I don't trust it.
1:38:44
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, she could have done something, I don't know what she, like, what could she have done?
1:38:50
[SPEAKER_05]: And how well did she know these guys?
1:38:52
[SPEAKER_05]: Did they just meet me?
1:38:53
[SPEAKER_04]: They all just met that day.
1:38:54
[SPEAKER_04]: They all just met that day.
1:38:57
[SPEAKER_05]: But I just feel like so many things could have been done.
1:39:01
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, they're saying that these kids were wrongly charged and blah, blah, blah.
1:39:07
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, I don't know.
1:39:09
[SPEAKER_05]: He think there were too quick to judge them.
1:39:11
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, no, because they were guilty.
1:39:14
[SPEAKER_04]: But you know, and although I'm sure a lot of my listeners would disagree, I think only 14 years old and to get a life sentence, I mean, that's for me, it's a bit much.
1:39:24
[SPEAKER_04]: You know?
1:39:24
[SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, it's apples or oranges, isn't it?
1:39:27
[SPEAKER_04]: People are going to disagree.
1:39:32
[SPEAKER_04]: Her mom, she needs mother.
1:39:34
[SPEAKER_04]: She wrote a book with a journalist.
1:39:38
[SPEAKER_04]: entitled The Genene Balding Story, a journey through a Mother's Nightmare in which she relates how her family coped with the loss of Jeanine, which must be incredibly sad book.
1:39:52
[SPEAKER_04]: She wrote with the journalist in 2012 and in 2013 on what would have been Jeanine's 46th birthday.
1:40:02
[SPEAKER_04]: She was admitted into the hospital for depression, and she died.
1:40:07
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess it was too much for Beverly, being without a daughter.
1:40:11
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
1:40:12
[SPEAKER_05]: Sad.
1:40:13
[SPEAKER_05]: But probably, I mean, I'm sure it was also the emotional effects of what happened to her daughter.
1:40:18
[SPEAKER_04]: And that was another life lost, and she was buried next to her daughter.
1:40:24
[SPEAKER_05]: I'd want to blow my brains out after something like that.
1:40:27
[SPEAKER_05]: If that ever happened, not that I'd let it get that far, but like, that's just, it's horrendous, man.
1:40:34
[SPEAKER_04]: Now when I was mentioning the controversy with the DNA that I was going to talk about later, what's currently happening in it's in the news is that they did a DNA swab, a rectal swab.
1:40:50
[SPEAKER_04]: on balding and they've recently run new tasks and Steve Shorty's DNA is not on the rectal swab.
1:41:02
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is the 22-year-old that you say looks like a mango who says he wasn't there and that's a case of mistaken identity and they've already
1:41:11
[SPEAKER_04]: identified that there's another homeless guy named short of you hung out there.
1:41:14
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, we're the fucking odds, but they also did a DNA test on the bandana that they used to gag balding.
1:41:22
[SPEAKER_04]: And there was an unidentified males DNA on that bandana and they don't know who was.
1:41:35
[SPEAKER_04]: So they say that's not not the proof that Steve Shorty's innocent, but it should certainly be enough to prove, you know, me to get neutral, yeah, or to appeal it.
1:41:46
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, and he's saying, you know, he's always claimed that he wasn't there.
1:41:50
[SPEAKER_04]: And now a couple of the other participants are saying he wasn't the guy either, but that why didn't he say it then?
1:41:55
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't fucking get it.
1:41:56
[SPEAKER_04]: Anyone strafe for the ass?
1:41:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So what they originally said, but they can't find his DNA now.
1:42:04
[SPEAKER_05]: Hmm.
1:42:05
[SPEAKER_05]: Of course he did.
1:42:06
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, if he did, then why aren't they able to find the DNA on the rectal swab?
1:42:11
[SPEAKER_04]: His DNA?
1:42:14
[SPEAKER_04]: The gis DNA.
1:42:16
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't know, but how did that?
1:42:18
[SPEAKER_05]: That's fine.
1:42:18
[SPEAKER_05]: But how did that happen?
1:42:19
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay.
1:42:20
[SPEAKER_05]: So they found, so they did find his DNA, then they're saying they didn't find it.
1:42:25
[SPEAKER_05]: You know,
1:42:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, they originally thought they had when they tested, but now they've retested.
1:42:30
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, the fact is, Jasmine must have been like a fruit smoothie down there, so many guys blew their load in this poor girl.
1:42:37
[SPEAKER_04]: And, you know, did disseminate it?
1:42:41
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, and it's all Australian cheese, so I mean, they must open, fucking related.
1:42:46
[SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, what that guy was saying.
1:42:47
[SPEAKER_04]: So they're not saying they didn't find any in a vagina.
1:42:51
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, this isn't clear.
1:42:52
[SPEAKER_04]: But what they're saying is the dependability of those two witnesses who said they guarantee that he will get in balls deep in it.
1:42:59
[SPEAKER_04]: That's where he will go on.
1:43:01
[SPEAKER_04]: And the original testimony, you know, by the police, no one denied that this guy was that, but now they're all changing that testimony.
1:43:08
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, I mean, clearly this guy had the hunger when you got the hunger.
1:43:13
[SPEAKER_04]: You got a feed.
1:43:15
[SPEAKER_05]: No, it's not, but if they're going off the whiff, all these other witnesses, like what's the reliability there, just by their words?
1:43:26
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I don't know why the other participants are saying this is now the wrong shorty, and they couldn't find this guy's cheese there.
1:43:32
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I don't know what's the mystery.
1:43:34
[SPEAKER_04]: But I mean, like, what the fuck is going on here that the fact that they said he was doing, like they specifically said he were an assman.
1:43:48
[SPEAKER_05]: laughing at this is a serious story just the way you were did it well my supposed to saw to me man I okay it's not funny all right it's sad we get that but there is okay they're funny they're they're peculiar aspects to it so
1:44:07
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, he's guilty, obviously, but where he came is the other thing.
1:44:12
[SPEAKER_05]: Maybe he didn't have a chance to come.
1:44:14
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, I mean, fuck, I get in there, Jazz, and I'm going to fucking come to tell on you.
1:44:18
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, that's good to know.
1:44:19
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, you know, I'm just representing men in general here saying that this is what we do.
1:44:25
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I mean?
1:44:26
[SPEAKER_04]: So I mean, we're going to finish it.
1:44:28
[SPEAKER_05]: I get what you're saying.
1:44:29
[SPEAKER_05]: He didn't finish, maybe.
1:44:30
[SPEAKER_05]: Okay, I believe he did fuck her in the ass.
1:44:33
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
1:44:33
[SPEAKER_05]: Did he finish?
1:44:34
[SPEAKER_05]: Probably not.
1:44:35
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like that Van Hell and song finished where you started.
1:44:40
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm serious.
1:44:41
[SPEAKER_05]: performance anxiety.
1:44:43
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, you have all, you have your friends around you, maybe he just got limp and he didn't finish it.
1:44:48
[SPEAKER_05]: But I do believe he did fuck around the ass.
1:44:49
[SPEAKER_05]: He looks like the type.
1:44:51
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I guess we'll have to wait and see on this one because this is currently going through the court of appeals and Steve, Mr. Shorty, he's looking to get out a tragic case where they're on the winners.
1:45:03
[SPEAKER_04]: And on that note, there's concludes another episode of Lust Crimes.
1:45:11
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, we really do.
1:45:13
[SPEAKER_05]: We really do.
1:45:14
[SPEAKER_05]: Thanks so much for tuning in this week and I'm looking forward to next week.
1:45:19
[SPEAKER_05]: I really am.
1:45:19
[SPEAKER_05]: Nice.
1:45:20
[SPEAKER_05]: This is fun.
1:45:22
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, as fun as I can get when you're talking to a people who are brutally murdered.
1:45:26
[SPEAKER_04]: But until next time, remember, whatever you say, whatever you do, there's always someone watching you.
1:45:44
[SPEAKER_03]: In like you would day dream
1:46:19
[SPEAKER_03]: You never saw you would die
1:47:08
[SPEAKER_03]: Grey circles dance, how it came to this, I don't understand.
1:47:43
[SPEAKER_03]: Please don't be upset I promise I won't forget And God tell what I know that I'm going to help But it turns me
1:49:39
[SPEAKER_03]: This is all the strength