Latest / How To Protect The Ocean / Navigating the Conference Circuit: Insights from Dr. Isla Hodgson on Back-to-Back Marine Conservation Events

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Navigating the Conference Circuit: Insights from Dr. Isla Hodgson on Back-to-Back Marine Conservation Events · How To Protect The Ocean

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Marine conferences are a place where you can have a lot of fun.
0:03
You can meet new people. You can meet old friends and colleagues. You
0:07
can establish new collaborations. But it's also a place
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where it can be overwhelming. It can be intimidating for
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a lot of people, especially those who are introverts. And it
0:17
could be a drain on your social battery. So
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when you do and prepare for a conference that's usually a
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week long in a place that's far away, you know that
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you're going to have to rest up and you know you're going to have to go through
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all of those emotions when you go into a conference. But
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imagine not only doing one conference but two conferences in a row
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where you have to do virtually the same thing in terms of interacting,
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mingling, doing presentations. It's a lot. So
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I was a little taken back when I heard a
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few people went to the International Marine Conservation Congress that
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happened in October earlier this month, as well as the
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European Elasmobranch Society, doing it all
1:00
together in a span of two weeks. Well,
1:03
I was able to talk to one of the people who were able to
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do that, Dr. Ayla Hodgson. She is not only a
1:10
podcaster, but a fellow scientist, a conservationist.
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She works with the Save Our Seas Foundation, and she's here today to
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tell us how she got through two weeks of conferences, international
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conferences, where she played a big role and had multiple, I
1:26
guess, plans and goals for each one of those conferences. So
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we're going to talk to Ayla on this episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast.
1:33
Let's start the show. Hey
1:38
everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. I'm
1:41
your host Andrew Lewin, and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the
1:45
ocean, how you can speak up for the ocean, and what you can do to live
1:48
for a better ocean by taking action. On today's
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episode, we're going to be talking about conferences because that is one
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of the places where I have to admit I flourish. I enjoy
1:58
going to conferences. I haven't been to a conference in a long time because my full-time
2:02
job is not really in the marine science and conservation world although
2:06
the podcasting can lend me to that but i haven't been in a while
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covid and all these other things it gets expensive sometimes but when
2:12
you do and when people are able to go and be
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at a conference like the international marine conservation congress or the
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European Alasdair Brank Association Conference. It
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is a whirlwind. It is one of those things where your adrenaline
2:26
is keeping you through the entire week or however many days
2:30
the conference is. You're mingling with people, you're
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sitting in on a number of different sessions that you have to plan
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out really quickly because some of them are going in parallel and you have to
2:39
jump from session to session to session. There's a lot of
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thinking, there's a lot of It's a great place to meet old friends, make new friends, colleagues,
2:47
so forth. but
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it can be intense. And when I heard that Ayla had
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been to two conferences, not just one, but two international
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conferences, pretty much over a span of two weeks, I
3:17
had to find out how she did it and what she was up to. And in this conversation, we
3:21
not only talk about each of those conferences and what her role is and
3:24
what her goals were for each of those conferences, we also talk
3:27
about her role with Save Our Seas Foundation and
3:31
her podcasting and how that all integrates with these with
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the conversations that happened at these conferences. So
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it's a great conversation. I hope you enjoy it. Isla is such an
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amazing person, so I hope you enjoy it as much as I did doing
3:45
the interview. Enjoy, and here's the interview. Enjoy, and
3:48
I will talk to you after. Hey, Isla, welcome to the How
3:51
to Protect the Ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk about going
4:00
Hi, Andrew. Thank you so much for having me. It's an absolute pleasure. And
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I am not too sure. We've just discussed that
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I feel like my brain's kind of operating on a bit of a lag
4:11
at the moment. So we'll see how this goes. But yeah,
4:15
always ready to talk about the ocean,
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nice i love it i think it's uh you know it's always something when
4:28
going to a conference is always exciting to go because you're seeing people that you haven't seen
4:31
in a while you get to see all your colleagues your friends you make friends
4:35
there you collaborations happen but it definitely uh
4:40
tugs on your in-person
4:44
battery, and emotional battery, and just sort of
4:47
social battery. And it's always a difficult thing to
4:51
continue on. And to do one is one thing. That's like a week.
4:54
And then to do another one right after, that's
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a feat I've never done before. I don't know if I'll ever be in a position to
5:01
do that, but that's interesting. And I wanted to have you
5:05
on to talk about that. But before we get to
5:08
all of that, Isla, why don't you just let the audience know who you are
5:13
Sure thing. So I guess I can say I wear two
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main hats, if you like. So my first hat is
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I am a marine social scientist. So I work on the
5:24
management and governance of marine protected areas. So
5:27
a lot of human dimensions kind of stuff. I work a lot with fisheries, work
5:31
a lot with government agencies, and try and understand
5:35
how we can do things better, basically. So
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that's one hat. And then my other hat is
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I am science communicator for the Save Our Seas Foundation. So
5:46
that involves a number of different things. Mainly, I produce
5:50
and host their podcast, World of Sharks. I
5:53
hope I'm all right to promote another podcast on your podcast. But
6:01
do a lot of other fun things as well. So I write
6:04
a lot for the foundation. Pretty much any time they need any
6:08
form of shark science communicated, that's me doing
6:12
that. So yeah, so they're kind of my two main
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hats. So one is research and the other
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is basically get to talk about sharks we're living, which is super fun.
6:25
I mean, you can't go wrong with that when you get to talk about sharks for
6:28
a living. It's pretty fun. We've had
6:31
you on the Beyond Jaws podcast, Dave and I, and so I'm
6:35
going to link in the show notes to that podcast so everybody
6:38
can get to know you a little bit more in your career because we went in-depth
6:42
in that career. And of course, we've done
6:46
a lot of interviews with people from Save Our Seas. So
6:49
those are all linked to those in the show notes as well. So people can get to know
6:52
Save Our Seas. One of the things that I realized from Save Our Seas last
6:56
year, I went to the 20th anniversary when they had it
6:59
in Fort Lauderdale. and it was like, you
7:02
know, just celebrating Save Our Seas and everybody that I talked to there
7:06
said my project was kind of way out there and Save Our Seas funded
7:10
it and it was awesome and it actually
7:14
helped their career along, it helped launch their career and I
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think that was at, you know, that, you don't get to see
7:20
that a lot with foundations, and I think Save Our Seas is
7:23
one of those foundations that is just able to do that time after time,
7:27
and they just take a chance on the person, on the project, and
7:30
see that it's necessary, but it's not, it may not be under the
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regular guidance of a lot of other, you know, granting foundations and so
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forth. So, being able, like James has an act, the team has an act
7:41
for picking out people and picking out projects that
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are really great. And I love, you know, always talking
7:48
about them because you guys do some great work. Not only from
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a granting and funding perspective, but your science
7:55
communication teams are pretty cool too. So, obviously, you're
7:58
one of them. a part of the team, but it's amazing to be
8:02
able to get to have you on the podcast and
8:05
talking about the podcast. Let's actually do that for a little bit because part
8:09
of the science communication thing, and you know,
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you asked, is it okay to promote the podcast? I am always
8:16
of the value of like, we need
8:19
more podcasts. We need people to have different voices to speak
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up. We need to have people to go on different podcasts because you never
8:26
know who's gonna love the hosts, the
8:29
subject matter, and we just need a diverse amount and
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I think it's great. So why don't we just talk a little bit about the podcast. How did it all
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So I'll say one thing first as well. Thank you so much
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for those kind words about the foundation. It's definitely something that I
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feel as well working for them. They're just such an awesome foundation
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to work for and an amazing team to be part of. A
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lot of people are quite surprised to find out we're a relatively small team. There's
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not that many of us, but very passionate and
9:04
driven people. And one of the things the
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foundation prides itself on and is very important to us is,
9:10
like you said, is seeing the potential in people and especially supporting
9:14
people in the early stages of their And speaking,
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we're going to go into these conferences later on, but one of the nicest things for me
9:22
about going to these conferences is just seeing how many
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people's, how many amazing people we
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have supported and helped to get started. And that
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is one of the core elements of the podcast as well. And
9:37
so World of Sharks, formerly The Whole Tooth, we
9:41
started out calling it The Whole Tooth. It actually started
9:45
as a little YouTube series. So back
9:48
in the day, in 2019, I actually met our
9:52
current CEO, James Lee, on a boat in the middle
9:56
of the Hebrides looking for basking sharks. And
9:59
that's how I got an introduction to the Save Our
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Seas Foundation, which is probably the most perfect introduction you could have.
10:07
And then in 2020, when COVID
10:12
hit and everybody was at home and there was a lot of,
10:16
you know, parents trying to keep their children entertained and
10:20
also children, you know, still trying to learn In incredibly
10:24
difficult circumstances, the Save Our Seas Foundation
10:27
thought it might be quite a cool idea to do a YouTube series
10:31
where young people could actually send their questions about
10:35
sharks into the foundation and we would assign that to
10:39
an expert or a professional in
10:42
the field who could answer their question. And I
10:46
was brought on as like the host of that. So I'd answer some of the questions, but
10:50
I would also provide a little link in between. And these
10:54
videos are, they're still up on YouTube. They're
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so adorable. There's like kids from all over the world sending in
11:00
these amazing questions. And then, you know, these kind of
11:04
big name scientists and our amazing project leaders answering
11:08
those questions. But we did about five episodes
11:13
and then James and I kind of came together and said,
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well, we actually think this would be really cool as a
11:21
podcast. So people can send in their questions about sharks
11:25
and rather than it be answered, you know, in a
11:28
small YouTube or a small video clip, we
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were aiming only to have the video clips, you know, to one minute. We
11:35
actually have a whole, you know, 45 minutes to an hour
11:39
where we kind of dive into this topic and kind of really go deep into it.
11:43
And so that's how the podcast started. And
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it's kind of really evolved and grown over the years. We
11:50
haven't quite reached our 100th episode. Congratulations to you and
11:53
Dave for reaching 100 episodes of Beyond Jaws. I think
12:02
Last week. Huge achievement, amazing. But
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yeah, so we're at about, we're coming up to our 70th episode.
12:11
And yeah, we basically cover
12:16
all different topics related to sharks. Our primary
12:19
aim is to make shark science and shark conservation as
12:24
accessible and fun and engaging to as
12:27
wide an audience as possible. And so my role as the
12:30
host is to kind of really put myself in the position of the
12:34
listener and try to really break down those
12:37
concepts as best that I can. And
12:41
we have an expert on every week
12:45
in the field of shark science, conservation, education and storytelling.
12:49
to kind of take us on a deep dive into a different part
12:53
of this kind of amazing world of sharks, if you like. So we
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cover everything from shark physiology to, you
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know, shark ecology. So where do they go? What do
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they do? You know, where do sharks give birth? All of those kinds
13:08
of questions. But we also cover some more serious
13:11
topics like their kind of conservation as well. So what are
13:14
the primary threats to sharks and how can we move past those? And
13:19
we have episodes focused on particular species. So we just
13:22
did an episode on Megalodon, which was a
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lot of fun to kind of dive into, into the life of this prehistoric
13:30
shark. And, and yeah, and
13:33
also do episodes kind of focused around the projects of
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our project leaders. So the, you know, the, the incredible people
13:40
that the Save Our Seas Foundation fund. and try
13:44
and communicate their work to a wider audience and
13:48
connect them with the public. So yeah, we cover a whole range
13:51
of different topics. And we keep joking that we thought, you
13:55
know, by 20 episodes in, we would have run out of things to
13:58
cover. And we're still going. So yeah,
14:06
It's a great, great podcast. We'll put a link in the show notes so that people can get
14:10
access to it. It's such a fun podcast. I learn something
14:13
new each and every day when I
14:16
listen to the episodes. I know I haven't listened to all 70. I'll be transparent. That's
14:23
okay. I've listened to a number though. I've
14:26
listened to a number of them and I'm always learning something new. It's true
14:29
though, we do as podcasters when you first start out or any kind
14:33
of communicators, you feel like you're going to run out of information. But
14:37
I find and I don't – the way I work is
14:41
a lot of the times I'll speak to somebody, I'll interview somebody and then during
14:44
that interview or I'll listen back to the interview and I'm like, oh
14:47
yeah, we could go down this route or we could start talking about
14:50
this because they mentioned it. You know, something that we should look for, either
14:54
talk to that person again or talk to somebody else, one of their colleagues or so
14:57
forth. Or they'll give me like
15:01
a referral to say, hey, you should speak to so and so and you should speak to
15:04
this person because they can talk on this. I find that's
15:07
really helpful when you have like especially when you do an interview
15:11
based show. to be able to do that. I think even solo,
15:16
I've been able to, I mean, I'm at almost 1,700 episodes
15:19
now on this podcast, so there's always something to talk about.
15:23
And if you can't find something, I always say, no, no, there's always
15:26
something, especially in ocean science, even in shark
15:30
science, there's always something to talk about or someone to
15:33
talk to. I think that the profession of
15:37
shark science and shark conservation has really you
15:40
know, exploded over the last 10 years, where a lot
15:44
more people are doing some amazing things. And I think also the power of
15:47
doing this remote recordings, like with software like Riverside, you're
15:51
able to speak to a lot more people. Zoom and stuff, you're able
15:54
to speak to a lot more people around the world. And I think that really opens
15:58
up the amount of content. Do you
16:02
find a lot of similarities in that in terms of finding
16:08
It's just such an immense joy and a privilege to be able to speak
16:18
to somebody who is not only the expert in the subject but
16:21
is so incredibly passionate about it as well and once
16:25
you get someone going on their
16:28
topic that they're excited about and they're passionate about that really
16:32
just comes through in the recording. And
16:36
it's just one of the greatest privileges. And I think especially, you
16:40
know, the reason as well behind doing a podcast like this, and
16:43
I think as well behind, you know, like Beyond Jaws,
16:47
and there's a ton of other, like, amazing shark-focused podcasts
16:50
out there. Partly the reason why we do this is to change
16:54
people's perceptions of sharks, right, and to counteract that. narrative
16:59
that's been around for a long time, you know, that one of fear or, you know,
17:02
sometimes even indifference. And I think the
17:06
power of having people who are
17:09
so passionate about sharks and so passionate about their conservation, get
17:15
that across to the public and how amazing these animals are
17:19
and how much there is still to learn about them. I think I
17:22
think that's an incredibly powerful tool. And
17:25
so yeah, and I never run out of
17:28
things to talk about. In fact, that's something that that's a that's
17:32
a I'm sure I mean, you've been in this business much longer than me. But
17:37
something that I had to learn right in the beginning was how to really sort
17:41
of dial back my questions. One of the biggest fears that I
17:44
had was that I wouldn't ask
17:47
intelligent questions or the guests
17:51
wouldn't feel like I'd researched them enough. And so I would
17:54
come with this like huge list of questions to ask them.
17:58
And I really had to learn to edit that down because people will
18:01
go off on these little tangents. And sometimes, like you said, that's the best
18:05
bit, that's the most interesting part. So you want to leave space for that,
18:08
right? And I learned that lesson the hard way, quite
18:14
in the podcast so um so yeah that's never
18:17
been a worry of mine that we're going to run out of things to talk about that's for
18:21
sure for sure when i first started
18:24
i would write out five or six maybe seven
18:28
questions and i'd always think was that too little like
18:31
maybe i should put more so i'd have like 10 to 15 questions and
18:34
then i realized really five to six did what i needed to
18:38
do to get the person talking, and then you're
18:41
right, it would go on these tangents, and then you would start asking questions about
18:44
the tangents. Then next thing you know, you look up and you're like, this has been an hour episode, and
18:48
I can go on for a lot longer. And so, you know, it's really
18:52
interesting. Once you get people who are
18:55
in this field talking, you get to hear their stories, you get to do
18:58
that. And I think it's, podcasting has done such a great service to
19:02
scientists in that it, It allows the
19:06
listener, the audience member, to get to know who
19:09
that person is, what they're passionate about, how they speak. Because usually
19:13
you just see it in a paper, like on a journal article, or
19:16
you just see it in some sort of scientific
19:21
American publication, or BBC, or things like that. And it's
19:24
just usually a quote. So you don't really hear them. You don't hear their tone. You don't hear the passion
19:27
in their voice. I love the ability for
19:30
podcasting to bring that out. Now, the other good thing
19:34
about podcasting is that you can take your podcasting equipment
19:38
and you can bring it to a conference. And I think
19:41
you did that, if I'm not mistaken. I've
19:46
done that before and I think you did that with
19:50
the idea of going to, you know, you went to
19:53
two conferences. Do you want to just let us know which conferences you went and then we'll
19:58
Sure, so I went to, the
20:02
first one was the International Marine Conservation Congress or
20:06
IMCC, which is organized by the Society of Conservation Biology
20:10
and this year that was in Cape Town in South Africa. And
20:14
then straight after that I flew to Greece to
20:18
take part in the meeting
20:22
of the European Asthma Bank Association. So
20:26
two very different conferences at other ends of the world,
20:32
A lot of traveling.
20:36
It seemed like it was in a straight longitudinal
20:41
line. A little bit off maybe, but it
20:44
seemed like right from Scotland all the way down and then coming
20:48
back. So that's not it's not like I think we talked about right before we record
20:51
you like the The time zone wasn't too much of an issue
20:54
because the hours didn't change to too much which which is a
20:58
benefit I think but it's still a long distance to travel
21:02
How long is the flight from like, you know, Scotland to
21:08
um so it's about It's
21:12
about 12 hours, but then add
21:16
three hours onto that for me because I live right up
21:19
north in the Scottish Highlands, so I've got to get transport to get to
21:22
the airport, first of all. So in total, in
21:26
total about 15 to 16 hours to get down to Cape Town. But
21:34
hey, I mean, it's, again,
21:37
I have to recognize here like the privilege of actually being able
21:41
to do that. A lot of these conferences are quite inaccessible for
21:44
a lot of people. So to actually be able to go and
21:47
attend these conferences is an absolute privilege and I can
21:50
totally. Sit on a plane for, you know,
21:54
11 hours to get there. It's no hardship. And watch,
21:58
I think I watched the entire season of the House of the Dragon while
22:05
There you go. Not a hardship. Kill two birds with one
22:08
stone. Yeah, exactly. Usually we
22:12
go to conferences, we'll start with IMCC because
22:15
that was the first one you went to on this trip. When
22:19
you go to conferences, you go for a purpose either to present or serve on
22:22
a panel, to podcast. What were the purposes you
22:28
So IMCC was more like multi-purpose for me. So like
22:32
I said in the beginning, I wear two different hats and one of those is
22:36
Marine Social Scientist and I currently lead
22:39
on a project here in Scotland which is looking at the management and
22:43
governance of Scotland's Marine Protected Area Network and
22:47
IMCC being the kind of Congress
22:50
of Marine Conservation that work is incredibly relevant. And
22:54
so on the one hand I was presenting but
22:57
also the Save Our Seas Foundation has a big
23:02
presence at these conferences. We usually sponsor them. So
23:05
IMCC we were one of the sponsors for that event and
23:09
a lot of the Save Our Seas Foundation team were
23:12
going to be there. Just very quickly, we
23:16
have kind of like, we have a core team, so
23:19
our headquarters, which is based in Switzerland, but then we also have the
23:22
Shark Education Center in Cape Town, which has
23:26
a whole team. And then the comms team, which I'm part
23:29
of, is also based within that center. But
23:32
then we also have a research center on Darros in the Seychelles, and
23:36
we also have a research center in Florida. And it's very
23:39
rare that all of us managed to
23:42
get together and there was a lot of Save Our Seas people
23:46
at IMCC so it was also a chance for
23:49
us to connect and us to meet one another which was
23:53
amazing. So like the week before that we got to do a
23:56
team building day which was with
23:59
a company based just outside of Simonstown
24:04
in South Africa called Veldensee and they took us for this
24:09
amazing like foraging, freediving experience. So
24:12
you like go foraging while you're freediving and then you cook up the food. And
24:17
it was phenomenal and it's just so, so great
24:20
to have the whole team together. So I think there was like over 30 of
24:24
us at IMCC. So it was like great to be
24:27
able to connect. And of course, alongside
24:31
of all of that, you know, getting to meet
24:35
the people that we funded, like I said earlier, and
24:39
connect with them and also, you know, help
24:42
people to know what Save Our Seas Foundation are about. So if they're potentially looking
24:46
for funding, you know, learn more about us as well. So it was
24:49
very much a multi-purpose trip. It was very, very
24:54
busy, but incredibly fun and
25:00
Very nice. Had you, had you been to a, uh, an IMCC meeting
25:06
I do not know, but I've presented at ICCB before,
25:10
sorry for the listeners. I know I'm bringing in a lot of like acronyms here.
25:16
Yes. Yes. It's similar. I've never been
25:20
to the ICCB. The ICCB tends to
25:23
be bigger. It tends to be more, it's not just ocean. It's
25:26
not just marine. It's every realm. So there's freshwater, there's
25:29
land, and then there's marine as well. So it's a bigger conference
25:35
where marine is sort of the marine section of
25:38
the Society of Conservation Biology. So it tends to be a little bit smaller,
25:41
a little under 1,000, I think. I don't know how many were at MCI. Unfortunately,
25:46
I know. Yeah, it's a shame you couldn't make it. So
25:50
I think there was about 800 delegates at this one. So
25:54
it's a big, big conference. Yeah. So
25:58
for listeners, these kind of conferences tend to be because
26:03
they're more general. So this is like kind of broad marine
26:06
conservation. So that can include everything from understanding particular
26:10
species to marine protected areas to working with
26:13
fisheries. And so you get delegates from all over
26:17
the world and there was, we call them parallel sessions.
26:20
It's basically like you have different rooms dedicated to
26:24
a particular subject and people give, you
26:28
have multiple people giving talks in that session. And
26:32
usually at some conferences, there's only one or two or maybe three
26:36
of those going on. At IMCC, there was something like six or seven
26:39
of those parallel sessions all going on at the same time. So
26:43
it's huge. Yeah, it is intense. And there's a
26:46
lot of people like running in between rooms because they want
26:49
to go to one in one session and one in another session. And so
26:54
so yeah, it's a it's a big conference, a big conference. Yeah,
26:58
so. And pretty nerve-wracking to present that, I must say.
27:08
Just because there's so many people and there's a lot of people there
27:12
who are very well established in their field. So for me, there
27:15
was a lot of people there who I really admire, I've
27:19
cited a lot of their work. And there's
27:22
not just academics there either, there's members from government agencies,
27:26
there's members from NGOs. conservation
27:30
organizations, you know, it really is an
27:33
amazing chance to be able to like network and connect with lots of different
27:36
people from all different backgrounds from all over the world. And the
27:41
room that they put me in, there was one big hole, and
27:45
I blame David Shiffman entirely for this, but there was one. There
27:52
was one enormous hall where they had all
27:55
the plenary sessions. So that's the people that speak at the beginning of the
27:58
day and kind of really set the scene for the
28:02
conference. And it was just this massive hall with
28:05
a stage at the front. And a lot of the other parallel sessions
28:09
are in much smaller rooms, you know, with a little projector. I was
28:12
on that big stage, which was so
28:15
intimidating. So, so intimidating. But
28:21
yeah, it was intimidating, but it was exciting at the same
28:24
time. And it was also the first time I've presented on this research.
28:28
So that added a little scary element to
28:32
it as well because you're thinking, oh, will the results come across okay
28:36
or how is this going to go? So yeah,
28:39
it's pretty nerve-wracking. I'm a first-timers PI
28:50
I think it went well. I think it went well. I got some good feedback. It's
28:56
always hard to know because the time goes so quickly
28:59
when you're in the moment and you spend, I was so stressed
29:03
beforehand. I normally don't get stressed for presentations
29:07
because science communication has always been my bag so
29:11
I know that I can present well. But
29:15
I was so nervous for a lot of the reasons that I've just
29:18
specified. So I spent a lot of the week panicking,
29:22
rehearsing, changing my slides again and again and again.
29:25
And then when it actually comes to it, the time just goes
29:29
so quickly. And then
29:32
it's done and you're finished and you're like, oh, it was all that panic
29:36
info. But yeah, it went well and we
29:39
had a good discussion afterwards. So we actually did
29:43
it as a bit of more of a panel session at the end. So all the other
29:46
speakers in the session kind of got up and talked about it. And
29:50
it was in a session called Beyond 30 by 30. So it
29:53
kind of looked at the concept of protecting 30% of
30:00
land and sea by 2030, but asked, you
30:03
know, is that enough? Or does there need to be more? You know, what
30:06
comes after this? And so it was
30:10
kind of trying to frame the talk with that in mind as well. And we got some really,
30:13
really interesting questions from the people who were listening. Yeah,
30:18
it was it was it was very valuable, but it was on the last day So
30:25
You got to do everything else and then you got to present. Hopefully you weren't too nervous throughout
30:33
Or it's like a bit of a cloud just hanging on
30:36
the horizon because you can't quite relax. And
30:41
also, like you said, I was trying to plan podcasts and
30:46
network. And there's all these social events in the evening too. You
30:51
know, anyone listening who is about to go to one of these conferences or has
30:54
been and is like, oh my god, they're so exhausting. Everyone
30:58
finds them exhausting. It is super tiring and
31:09
The big thing, especially for IMCC, I've been to a lot of different conferences. IMCC
31:13
is my favorite that I've been to at this point. I've been
31:17
to a number of them, three of them at this point. And
31:21
I find that they are my favorite just because of
31:24
the support that you get for people who present, the feedback that
31:28
you get, the fact that they have like panel sessions at the end of each session
31:32
or at the end of each group of sessions, a block of sessions to be able to discuss more.
31:36
There's a lot more that comes out of it than just, you know, if you're an
31:39
audience member, just watching people, you know, present
31:43
their stuff, but you're able to give feedback, you're able to speak to
31:46
them after people are accessible, even though there's 800 some odd there,
31:50
it's nice that you get access. Plus the events at night,
31:55
in the evening, during the day, it's a very social conference.
32:02
There's a bit of a partying aspect to it, I have to admit. But
32:05
it's it's it's a fun and friendly atmosphere where
32:10
everybody's approachable even for for
32:13
introverts out there, you know, there's there's ways to to be
32:17
able to Inject yourself into conversations and
32:20
be able to be a part of come. I'm an extrovert. So it's very difficult to speak on introverts
32:23
behalf but it's it's it's I've
32:27
seen people who say yeah, it actually like I've heard people say they really like
32:30
it because How how approachable and supportive everybody is so?
32:35
Yeah, I agree. And I mean, I was joking about David before. But,
32:39
you know, David was on the organizing committee and the entire
32:42
committee did such a fantastic job. You know, if you imagine like
32:46
how many people you have to organize, how many topics you have to organize. It
32:50
was done seamlessly. I can't fault
32:54
them. And something that made me so happy, as a marine social
32:57
scientist, normally when you go to these broad conferences,
33:01
or it has been in the past, I think it's getting better now, but
33:04
all the human dimensions stuff is usually just kind
33:07
of sectioned off in its own little box. Whereas IMCC,
33:12
it was so much, it was integrated so well into
33:16
everything else. And there were so many really
33:19
valuable and very interesting discussions, especially around equity
33:23
and social justice in marine conservation. And being
33:28
in South Africa, especially there was a lot of discussions around
33:32
things like colonialism and how things
33:36
like apartheid are still having an impact now
33:40
on who is involved in conservation, who is involved in the decision-making. And
33:45
one of the keynote speakers, Angelo Villagomez, said
33:49
something, it sounds very simple, but
33:53
I think it's something we can all remember, is that it's
33:57
not just the why of marine conservation, so it's not just the why of
34:01
how we're doing it, but it's also The how
34:04
so the pros, you know process really matters. So how are we involving people
34:08
who is involved? And so there was a lot of really really
34:11
valuable discussions around that and at the
34:15
conference and that's probably One
34:18
of the main take home messages for me of
34:21
that conference is just how important those elements are
34:26
to the success and the longevity of any marine conservation measure.
34:30
Whether you're talking about marine protected area or whether you're talking about fisheries management measure,
34:40
Absolutely. Absolutely. And Angelo is a friend of the podcast. He's been on a
34:43
number of times. So happy to hear that you're able
34:46
to get a lot out of that keynote. I know he worked on it pretty
34:49
hard. So that's fantastic to
34:53
hear. He's an amazing individual. Yeah, yeah,
34:56
for sure. So you did that conference and
35:00
then you decide, hey, you know what? It's not enough that I do one conference. On
35:04
the way home, I'm going to just do a little stopover into a
35:08
little known place called Greece, I assume it was
35:11
in Athens, and I'm just going to hang out with some others, some more, maybe
35:15
do a presentation or two, and you decide
35:18
that. So what in the world made you decide to
35:21
do one, not only another conference in that year, which
35:29
Well, I think you've only to take that up with the conference organizers and
35:33
why they all seem to have their events all at once. So
35:41
because I work for the Save Our Seas Foundation, it's
35:46
often part of our job that we go to events like this. So
35:49
especially things like EA, the European Alasdair Frank Association Conference.
35:54
A, partly because, like I said earlier, we have
35:58
a lot of project leaders who participate in these events and it's always great to
36:01
go and support them. But B, you
36:04
know, we often sponsor these events as well, so we host social
36:08
events in the evening so that people can meet one another and network.
36:12
And it's also a great way for more people to find out about the foundation and the kind
36:16
of funding that we offer. And the reason that I usually
36:20
go to these events, aside from, IMCC was a bit different
36:23
because it was a combination of my own research and Save Our Seas. EEA
36:28
was mainly for the Save Our Seas Foundation. So for me,
36:32
as science communicator, it's good to keep tabs
36:35
on who's doing what and also to try and
36:39
think about, you know, what would be a good podcast episode or can I interview
36:43
anyone here while I'm here and I have everyone in the same room or
36:47
just to sort of introduce myself. I think it makes people feel a lot more comfortable if
36:50
they've met me beforehand and we've had a chat beforehand. And
36:55
so EEA was kind of more focused on that, but EEA
36:58
is a very different conference to IMCC. So IMCC,
37:03
broad marine conservation, you know, loads of delegates, lots
37:06
of parallel sessions. EEA is much smaller and
37:10
it's more, it's wholly focused around elasmobranchs
37:15
and specifically elasmobranchs in Europe. And so you're
37:19
in one room for the entire day. There's talks running from
37:22
9am until 7.30pm, I believe
37:26
it was, with gaps in between for networking. Again,
37:34
the conference organizers IC did, or
37:38
IC, I should say, so it's I and then the word sea
37:42
as in like ocean. They did an incredible
37:45
job of organizing everybody and making sure
37:48
everything ran smoothly and that there was not only space for as
37:52
many talks, but space for people to chat and to network in
37:55
between. And the nice thing about EEA is
37:58
that because you're in the same room for every single talk, you
38:02
kind of are, I don't
38:05
want to say forced because it's not like you're held there against your will,
38:08
but you do kind of see I
38:13
think a broader diversity of subjects
38:17
than you would do ordinarily, because when you're at somewhere like IMCC and
38:20
you're running in between lots of different parallel sessions, you're
38:24
going specifically to the ones that cater to you, whereas
38:28
EEA for me was so interesting because I was not only listening to
38:31
talks about my subject area, which is like working with
38:34
fishers and social dimensions, but
38:37
also learning about tagging and different techniques to
38:40
tag sharks and also, you know, new discoveries in their biology and
38:44
ecology. Um, so yeah, it was, it
38:47
was, it was really interesting and, and very full on as
38:50
well. Um, and then also, uh, at
38:54
EEA too, um, I was very kindly asked to
38:57
be part of a panel session on the last day. So
39:00
rather than have one person speaking as a plenary, they
39:04
had, um, plenary panels, which is
39:07
like, a panel session that starts
39:11
the day and sort of sets the tone for the rest of the day. And
39:15
there was a panel, I was part of a panel on science communication, so
39:18
it's called Stimulating Public Engagement. And so,
39:25
I love it when conferences incorporate science communication.
39:29
It's such an important tool that we need to, I mean, we go to conferences
39:32
and we, you know, share
39:36
our research, share sort of conservation initiatives, discuss
39:41
important avenues, but then we never really discuss you
39:45
know, the importance of speaking about
39:49
the research and speaking about these projects to a
39:52
community, whether it be in person, whether it be digitally, it's
39:56
such an important role. And I'm so glad to see and
40:00
hear of different conferences being able to attach
40:03
that as a session or panel, the
40:07
plenary panel, you know, however they do, I
40:11
think it's really important. Actually, IMCC used to put on
40:15
oceans online, which is right after the IMCC conference,
40:18
which is one day all about science communication. And
40:22
it was it was from an oceans online conference that used to happen from
40:25
science online and In the US, unfortunately, that's not around anymore for
40:29
a number of different reasons. But Oceans Online was probably
40:32
one of my favorite science communication conferences to go to. And
40:36
then they added Oceans Online to the end of IMCC. I don't think they do it
40:39
anymore, but they do incorporate, I think, science communication throughout
40:45
Yeah, and I think David Schiffman, he ran a
40:48
workshop on science communication at both conferences,
40:52
actually, which was great. But yeah, definitely
40:57
going back to EEA. I mean, it's when
41:00
we talk about education and communication that forms part
41:04
of a lot of projects focused around sharks now, like,
41:08
you know, educating the local community, you know, raising awareness, public
41:13
engagement of sharks. It's such a huge theme across
41:16
a lot of these projects. So, yeah, it was really cool to
41:20
be able to be part of a panel specifically about that.
41:24
And my fellow panelists, we all came from quite diverse areas
41:28
of science communication. So for me, you know, scientific writing
41:32
and podcasting, but there was also Felipe who does
41:36
a lot of videography. You know, there was Eleonora who
41:39
is, you know, also she does, she
41:43
is a science journalist. And then, you know, Ian
41:46
Campbell and Michael Scholl as well, who are kind of more part of the sort of NGO, that
41:51
kind of world. So yeah, it was really cool and
41:54
chaired by the amazing Eva Myers, who heads up
41:59
the Angel Shock project, so she knows a lot about public
42:02
engagement and things like that and community involvement. So yeah,
42:10
Yeah, it's good to get it from all, I think when we talk about science communication,
42:13
for me, I always go to like digital science communication, because that's
42:16
what I do. But there's so many other aspects to it. And I
42:20
think it's great to be able to present that in front of everybody to kind of
42:23
inspire people to be like, Oh, well, I can do writing or, yeah, no,
42:27
I do have like, you know, the angel shark network, I have an I can create
42:30
a network of different organizations and stuff. I think project seagrass does
42:34
the same thing for seagrass up in
42:37
the UK. And and so it's, it's It's
42:40
good to get the background and the challenges
42:44
and solutions that they all have to overcome and be able to
42:47
implement when they do these different types of
42:50
science communication. So that's awesome. Now, I
42:55
know we're running a little short on time here, but two
42:58
conferences done within a span of, I believe it
43:01
was two weeks, maybe even two and a half weeks because you had your team building beforehand.
43:11
I felt, I mean, aside from obviously tired,
43:14
because it is pretty full on, I felt
43:20
incredibly, you know, uplifted. One
43:23
of the reasons that I like going to these conferences is because I feel like it lights that
43:27
spark back in you. You know, as a scientist, you're
43:30
often working by yourself, you know, a lot of people listening to this will be familiar
43:34
with working from home. And it can feel quite lonely.
43:38
And then when you go to these conferences and you see just how many people are
43:43
working to protect the oceans, to understand
43:48
and conserve sharks, it really reignites that
43:51
spark and it spurs you on to carry
43:55
on in whatever you're doing. And also you get to connect with lots
43:58
of new people, so new collaborations, new ideas. So,
44:01
I felt very uplifted and I think it's very easy, I
44:05
think you probably talk about this a lot on this podcast, is to
44:09
fall into that doom and gloom trap, right? So, you know, we hear a lot
44:13
of bad news related to the oceans. And
44:17
these conferences, do you have an element of that? Because you are hearing similar
44:21
stories from all over the world. But at
44:25
the same time, you're also hearing similar stories of,
44:28
well, we're seeing fishermen be more engaged,
44:32
or we're actually seeing this conservation measure working, or
44:36
we've trialled this project here and now it's so successful,
44:40
we have more sharks than we know what to do with. You hear a lot
44:43
of these positive success stories and you see the amount of effort and
44:48
work that's going into marine conservation. So yeah, I would
44:52
say I'd felt very inspired and very uplifted
44:59
That's awesome. I'll be honest, I'm joking about
45:04
the fact that you did two conferences in a row a lot, but it takes
45:07
a lot to be able to do that and be present at
45:11
each and every one of them. you know, you're up late, you're
45:16
up early the next day, you know, trying to get all these sessions in,
45:19
trying to collaborate, you're talking, and especially going from
45:22
an area of working from home or even working in
45:26
a small group to being around, surrounded by 800 people
45:29
and maybe 300 people at the ESA, it's It's
45:35
a lot, it's a lot to take. So what
45:38
helped you get through those conferences? A lot of coffee?
45:43
I don't drink coffee, so like, yeah. Oh
45:49
I know. Did you do some exercise or did you get out to do like outside
45:53
and like when you're in Cape Town to go out and kind of enjoy nature
46:00
I did in the beginning, so me and our
46:04
director of the education center, Clover, is very into running. So me and her
46:08
would go for runs early in the morning. But I mean, these sessions are starting
46:12
at like 8am. So you know, there's really not much time.
46:15
I think as well, like, I think I just run on adrenaline at these
46:18
things. And like, You
46:22
know, it is hard, and I think I've reached a point in
46:25
my career now where I'm more used to that. I'm like,
46:28
I know I've got two very intense weeks, and then after
46:32
then, you know, I can relax a little bit. And you do get inspired by,
46:35
we were joking about it before we started recording, but
46:38
people like Reema Jebado, who's just this incredible superwoman
46:42
who goes from conference to conference to meeting to meeting, and she's just
46:46
able to be so present. And I think as well, I know how
46:49
much energy it takes to, for
46:53
someone to present. Like it's such a, you
46:57
put so much effort into it. And so you want to really, like
47:01
if they look up from the podium and they see you in the audience, they
47:05
want to see you looking at them and engaging. They don't want to see you like kind of down on your phone. So
47:09
I try and keep that in mind when you're in the last session of the day. And
47:14
yeah, you just meet these amazing people from
47:18
all different walks of life, all over the world. And it's such an exciting thing.
47:21
But that's not to say that I don't find it hard. And
47:27
one thing that I try to do as well is, if you've got new
47:30
students or early career researchers who do feel a little bit overwhelmed
47:34
by these kind of things, is I try to also be a bit of a safe space.
47:37
So if anyone's having a moment like that, if
47:42
you see me at a conference, you can always come to me and talk about it, and
47:45
we'll go and get a coffee somewhere quiet. But it's always okay as
47:48
well. I mean, I work for the Save Our Seas Foundation, so
47:51
I represent the foundation when I'm at these events. But
47:55
it's also, it's very okay to just take a moment
47:59
out for yourself. You know, if you're at lunch, you know, maybe
48:02
just go and have a coffee by yourself or go back to your hotel room. You
48:06
know, it is a very full on overwhelming thing. So
48:14
Yeah, it is not easy. It is not to
48:18
do one conference, let alone two in a row. But
48:21
it's it's definitely worthwhile. And, and, and,
48:25
you know, I'm happy that that you enjoyed yourself. I'm happy you
48:28
got to do your presentations and be a part of the panel and
48:32
represent Save Our Seas and be able to meet in person
48:36
some of the project leaders, but also future guests on the World of Sharks.
48:40
I'm sure you met a lot of them. Did you get to do some, before
48:47
I did. I did. Yes. And I'm very excited
48:51
for them to come out. One I can't talk about because we're
48:54
not sure when it's going to air. But we do have one airing next
48:58
week with Patricia Chavez. I don't know if you've had her. I
49:04
Yes, we've had him on Beyond Jaws. Yeah, we've had
49:07
her on Beyond Jaws. She's
49:12
She was incredible. Again, Sorry,
49:17
I was just going to say again, someone coming from doing workshops all
49:21
day and then being in talks all day and social events and
49:24
then she was like, yeah, let's do it tonight. And so it
49:27
was just full of energy and such a phenomenal
49:31
storyteller. So we have Patricia on the podcast to talk about
49:34
the work that she's doing with large tooth sawfish in
49:38
the Amazonian coast. So yeah, so
49:41
that's coming out next week. And then we have some more kind of
49:45
lined up moving into next year as well, which is
49:51
Yes, I love that. I love that. So like I
49:54
said, I'll put a link in the show notes to get access to
49:58
the World of Sharks, the podcast. I'll put some links to Save
50:01
Our Seas as well, and the other episodes we did with some of our Save
50:04
Our Seas crew. Patricia Charvet too, so you
50:08
can get a little bit of taste of Beyond Jaws as well as World
50:12
of Sharks. But Isla, thank you so much. I know it's
50:15
soon after both conferences, so I really appreciate you taking
50:19
the time to be with us here today and to be able to
50:22
talk about the conferences. I haven't been to the ESA conference yet,
50:26
but I'm looking forward to doing that at some point. Maybe
50:29
not back-to-back to another conference. I'm not sure if you have your Superwoman capabilities,
50:33
but Or Remus for that matter, but I don't think anybody has
50:37
Remus superwoman capabilities. But, you know, I'm looking
50:41
forward to being able to hang out with you at a conference and
50:45
be able to chitchat and get to know each other more and talk podcasting
50:49
and science communication. I'm really looking forward to that. So thank you so
50:53
much for being on this episode of How to Protect the Ocean.
50:57
Likewise, I would love that. And yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's been
51:01
You bet. Thank
51:06
you, Isla, for joining us here on the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. It
51:09
was great to have you on and be able to discuss the
51:14
much-missed, that I miss so much, the conference, International Marine
51:17
Conservation Congress. I don't know as many people as at the European Alaskan
51:21
Marine Association, but as you know, we mentioned a number of
51:24
people who went to both. Obviously, that doesn't happen every
51:28
day. This is not something that occurs all the time, but there are some
51:31
people who go from conference to conference to conference. because that's
51:34
part of their role. Their role is to engage with various people.
51:38
Save Our Seas is an organization that funds other
51:42
leaders and when they are able to meet leaders or support leaders during
51:46
presentations or be there to see what they've been able to be
51:49
up to, what they want to be up to and make those connections and meet potential
51:53
new leaders later on, It's a great opportunity to go to these
51:56
conferences for Isla as well as her colleagues at Save Our Seas Foundation
52:00
to be able to interact with people and
52:03
maybe recruit some people and suggest that they apply
52:08
for grants and foundation money. later on. So always
52:11
a great place to do that. And conferences are
52:14
a lot of fun. I've talked about conferences before. You know,
52:18
Isla mentioned at the end of some of her top strategies
52:22
for conferences. And I think it's really important to
52:26
have your own strategy, come up with your own strategy. Use
52:29
some other people's as you go along and you'll learn as you go. But being
52:33
at a conference is crucial. In-person conferences, as
52:36
much as I love virtual conferences and the ease of virtual conferences and
52:39
the expense or the lack of expense, in-person
52:43
conferences are something completely different. And if you ever have the chance, go
52:47
to the International Marine Conservation Congress. It is one of the
52:50
best conferences. It is so supportive. It's very social.
52:54
It's very much a family when you go there. and
52:57
you get to meet new people each and every time. I was told that
53:01
this time there were a lot of new people there and I think that's great
53:04
to continue on with the tradition of
53:08
making it a very inclusive, very fun conferences
53:12
that can get a lot out of it. Every conference that I've been to for
53:15
the IMCC is extremely different and I think that's
53:18
really important because the people make up the
53:22
bulk of the culture at this conference and it's always been great
53:25
people and I heard the same thing happening that Ayla told you and others
53:29
that I told me at the IMCC. So, love
53:32
to hear that. I'm continuing to hear that. And I love to hear Ayla talk
53:36
about the conference. It sounded like a lot of fun. It sounded exhausting and draining on
53:39
her social battery, but she made it through flying colors and
53:43
was able to tell us about it. So thank you for that. And I want to thank you.
53:46
If you have gone to a conference or you want to go to a conference and you
53:50
have questions around that, feel free to shoot them in a comment
53:53
on Spotify, on YouTube. If you want to shoot me a DM
53:57
on Instagram, at how to protect the ocean is the as the account at
54:00
how to protect the ocean. But I just love to hear what you think of the podcast,
54:04
what you think of conferences, marine conservation, ask me any kind of question, always
54:07
looking to continue the conversation that we start here on
54:10
the podcast. That's the beauty of having a podcast is to hear back
54:14
and engage with people. It's always a lot of fun. So thanks
54:17
again to Isla. Really appreciate it. Thanks again to Save Our Seas Foundation
54:21
for representing at each of those conferences. And I
54:24
want to thank you for listening to this episode of the How to
54:27
Protect the Ocean podcast. I am your host, Andrew Lewin. Have a great day. We'll talk to