Latest / The Daily Writer / Recording Artist Ginny Owens on Songwriting, Recording & the Creative Life

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Recording Artist Ginny Owens on Songwriting, Recording & the Creative Life · The Daily Writer

• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast, where we bring you tips and inspiration each day to help you build habits for writing success.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: For more resources, including your free Daily Rider Starter Kit, visit DailyRiderLife.com.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: I've mentioned this here on the show before, but one of the big benefits of hosting your own podcast is that it gives you the opportunity to talk to some really cool people.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: And today's episode is definitely no exception.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really excited to bring you this conversation with the amazing Ginny Owens.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: I was introduced to Ginny's music back in 1999 with her album called Without Condition, and I've been a big fan ever since.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: Her unique musical style and inspirational lyrics have transcended genre definition and have taken her to diverse venues that include the White House, the Sundance Film Festival, the Lilith Affair, and the National Day of Prayer in Washington, D.C.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Jenny has also been an adjunct professor at her alma mater, Belmont University, served as a worship leader, partnered with nonprofits, and authored two books, the latest of which is called Singing in the Dark, Finding Hope in the Songs of Scripture.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: She also just released her newest album a few weeks ago.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's called I Know a Secret, and I've got to tell you, I really, really like this album.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's fantastic.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're a fan of thought-provoking music and great songwriting, I know that you're gonna love it as well.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: So in this conversation today, Jenny and I talk about her life as a recording artist, how she got started in music, her songwriting process, the value of having a portfolio of creative work, and much more.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: And as a side note, one of the most frequent frustrations that I hear from writers is that they want to write, but they don't like marketing.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: And if you've ever felt that way, I know that you're gonna be encouraged by Jenny's perspective, which is that it's not marketing, it's just encouraging.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: I thought that was a really, really great insight.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: And this conversation is filled with Jenny's really wonderful insights.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: So again, I think you're gonna really love this.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: So here's my conversation with the incredible and talented Jenny Owens.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Jenny, it's really great to have you here on the Daily Writer Podcast.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: I've been looking forward to this conversation for a while.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks for popping in.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: It's good to chat with you.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, Kent.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Great to be here.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I remember when your first album came out in uh was it it was early 2000s, correct?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Or was it late 90s?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was night, it was uh July of 99, actually.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: So right on the right on the uh turn to the to the uh Y2K.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: The cusp of the millennium.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: Or something like that.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: The cusp of the millennium, yes.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was just talking to somebody the other day about Y2K and how much we all freaked out over it, and so that that came to my mind.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the cusp of the new millennium sounds far better.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we should go with that.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like the opposite of COVID in some ways, because everybody freaked out about Y2K.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: We thought the world was gonna explode or something, and then it turned out to be absolutely nothing.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, COVID, it's kind of like it took a while for everybody to start to take it seriously.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so true.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't know what to make of that, but I know okay.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: Now here's another question.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: I'm kind of going back into the archives of my brain here.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because you were with Rocket Town Records, correct?
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was, yeah.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: And did you get signed around the same time that Chris Rice did?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Chris came about a year and a half, maybe before I did, or a year.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think he's I think Deep Enough to Dream was out uh when they signed me.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um Nathan and Christy Knuckles, who were Watermark, they were there.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um uh Will Shire was there, and um, I believe they started working on the Exodus project, which had all kinds of artists on it.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I I had come along a couple years in and was so excited to be a part of that fabulous crew of musicians and artists and songwriters.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it was it was a dream come true.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was um I felt like an indie artist, and so it was great to just find a home where I could be an indie artist, you know, it was really special.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: How did you first realize that you had the gift of songwriting and of creating and of of being a writer?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so this is a podcast for writers, obviously.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: But we talk to writers of all different kinds, yeah.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: People normally think of writers as being associated with blogs or books or journalism, but writing takes place in lots and lots of different forms.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's why I love talking with people like you who are really successful songwriters.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: When when did you realize that this was something that you felt like you could make your career or that it could be a long-term thing in your life?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, uh funnily enough, I don't know that I did for a very long time until it was actually happening.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I started writing at a very young age.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: I believe the first song I actually remember writing was when I was seven.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I love to also write stories and poems.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but most of it was uh was content I didn't share with other people.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was just too shy to do that.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, maybe once a year I'd share a song with uh friends and family, and you know, they might like it.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: They might just be, you know, kind of go, oh, great, whatever.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's cute.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it it all meant so much to me that I uh found myself um just kind of far more comfortable just doing, you know, sitting at the piano when everyone was was gone from from the house and just creating it was kind of my journaling time.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: And as I got older, it was the conversations that I wasn't brave enough to have.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I just had to write them into songs or into stories or whatever it was.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um even when I got to college, I continued to write uh a bit off and on, but I thought I would be a high school music teacher.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: I thought just the idea of you know being a songwriter for a living wasn't practical.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so um it wasn't until after I graduated from college at Belmont University in Nashville, um, and was trying to find a job as a teacher that I actually kind of got my songwriting break, um, which was random, but not random if you believe in God, of course.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, was invited to sing at church for our offertory one day when it was Belmont Day.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: Belmont belonged to the Southern Baptist Convention back then, so they were fundraising and uh they asked me to sing for the offertory, which just never happened.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I happened to sing a song I wrote, and there was a guy in the congregation who was an audio engineer in uh Christian music primarily, and so he approached me the next week and said, Have you ever thought about you know recording some of your songs?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Well, maybe, but I just don't know if anyone would like them.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Well, I don't know either, but I think they might, and you know, it might be worth just us recording some piano vocal demos and sharing them around.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what we did.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um, he he kept saying, I'm gonna, you know, share them with my friends and I'll be back in touch.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, it felt like an eternity because I felt like I never heard from him.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd, you know, he'd check in.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think probably he was checking in every few weeks, but it felt like you know, six months or something.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: But within, I guess, four or five months, um, I began working with a music publisher and songwriter in Nashville named Michael Purrier, who at the time was at BMG Music.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: And he kind of introduced me to the process of co-writing and uh songwriting for a publishing company.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then within a year, I was signed to Michael W.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Smith's label, Rocket Town.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: So looking back, I see how quickly it all happened in the in the moment of thought.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is never gonna happen.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I always say I was the one uh person in Nashville who was seeking a teaching job and ended up being a songwriter instead.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it was, and but I think that for me, I don't think everyone's calling works like that, obviously, but I think for me, I I always need confirmation from somewhere else.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's how how God often speaks is just uh by allowing or or providing confirmation from other sources.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious, whenever you're you're working on an album, okay, you always have a producer, correct?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I know sometimes the artists act as their own producer and that kind of thing.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: But when you're working on an album, you have a producer and you have a label.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: If you're with a record label, I know a lot of people are not these days, but you know, back in the old days, that was really, really super common.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: How is it that you so you you come to an album project, I assume, with oftentimes a collection of songs that you've written that come from a very personal and deep place?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: What is that emotional journey like to go from okay, here are these songs that I am writing or have written that are very personal, then to now these are becoming a product that might be on the radio, and you have producers who are selecting these and arrangers, and like it becomes a polished product.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: Is that difficult to take that emotional journey from something that is very personal, but now it's very much going to be a product that's monetized and distributed and all that?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's such a great question.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would say, so interestingly enough, it's been a while since I've actually made an album, like created all the songs at at once.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um just because of the nature of how the songs are released these days.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: I tend to write a couple at a time and release those and kind of I have a vision for the project, but I don't think so much about the project as a whole.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I kind of, well, I think about, you know, kind of releasing one song at a time.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't feel the pressure to complete all of the songs before I begin releasing them.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um that being said, um I am actually working on a project right now that I've written most of the songs for and haven't recorded any of them yet.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: And my hope is to do um a live, kind of a live project of of all the songs.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I have a kind of a very clear picture of, you know, what the songs are all about, what I want the album to feel like.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but but that's rare in in uh in these days.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like for the most part, I've done, you know, kind of um a single at a time and then think about, you know, kind of an overall theme and and begin to write that way.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of the first songs uh help me sort of the first songs inform the way that I will um write the next songs and and what the themes will be.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but in the past, I you know, I I think if you have a producer you trust and you love, and in the seasons where I've had that, it's been just a joy actually to produce the songs and then to release them into the world.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um because you know, I feel like for me at least, um songs are in a certain sense, you know, my own therapeutic, you know, kind of uh working, working out what's going on in my heart, but but they're always written for others.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I think by the time they get to release time, I'm I'm just excited.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um I I know I know, especially these days, it's not so much about monetizing.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh, you know, uh you it's pretty tough to do that unless you're Taylor Swift.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but but I mean, you know, you know.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: That's really where the bulk of her income comes from, I assume.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm I'm sure she does pretty well on Spotify as well.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, but I do think it's you know, it's a joy to think about how am I going to share these songs on the road?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: What stories am I gonna tell?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I really enjoy that process, but it's almost it it well, I'd say it is wearing a different hat.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the creating hat, um, the song writing hat, it feels different than say the creating uh a concert hat or thinking about how you're gonna talk about the music on social media.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: Just you know, wearing some some different hats.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I I do best actually if I don't think about it as marketing, but if I think of it as, you know, how can the words that I'm writing encourage the people that I'm then speaking to?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: So uh it's really helpful for me then to just think about, you know, what stories am I telling?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what what's going to be the most effective way to set up these songs and to communicate them?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: So that's really good.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't know.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's kind of come over time.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: I I wrote a a book recently and that kind of took me back to the first days of uh writing an album because it was 10 10 chapters, like an album is often 10 songs.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it took way longer to write, and the chapters are much longer than songs, and so that was a bit stressful.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: But when I was done, I was a little, you know, overwhelmed by the the sense that, oh gosh, this is gonna go into people's hands and it's gonna be released into the world.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so it kind of felt like um going back to the old uh and my beginning days of creating music, um, kind of those same feelings came back.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I think the music process, I I've gotten used to, you know, uh creating new music, but not the not the book writing process.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious about your about your take on the difference between the music publishing or music recording industry and also publishing.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I spend basically my whole life in the I mean, I I used to teach college and I was a music pastor for a while.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: But these days, basically my whole life is focused around books and writing, those kinds of things.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um how is because your your book was with David C.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Cook, correct?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: So what was the experience like being an author and going through traditional publishing as opposed to recording?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Like, did you feel like it was slower or faster, or were the two processes similar in a lot of ways?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it is a bit slower of a process.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you start a book, you pass it off to your editor, and you see it in about four months.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and I actually had a very quick turnaround.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I had about four months to write the book, which was not a lot of time.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's not a lot of time.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, um, but in a way, that that's the time that I would be used to for writing an album, most likely.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think that felt you know very similar to music.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think just having a team was a really special process because a lot of times since Rocket Town closed its doors, I've done a lot of um my music independently.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so having a team to think through ideas, um, to you know, consider, you know, how how you want to tell the story of the book, all of those things.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: It was just nice to have other minds uh on those things.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and kind of other minds holding you accountable as I was writing the book.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I don't think I've ever had people dig into my songs the way the editors dug into the writing.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I really appreciated that.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh I'm I suppose at the age where it's like the the more input I can receive, the better.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: So um I eagerly invited them to edit me as much as they wanted to.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I don't think I don't think I would have loved that as much if someone had, you know, gone through my music, evaluated, analyzed my music in that same way.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it would have been as as enjoyable for me.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: So so yeah, I think it was a longer process, you know, um it was a year, a little over a year, maybe a year and a half between the time I began writing and the time the book saw the light of day, which again is a pretty short uh time for a book.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but for music, that would have felt like forever.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the biggest difference is in in music, you're trying to compress content, right?
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're trying to get your song into the simplest theme you can.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you want to make your your chorus hook memorable, and you want to make your your each verse pack a punch because you only have two or maybe three of those and a little bridge.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: And with this, I needed more words all the time, but I still needed to somehow have a theme that packed a punch.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a different type of writing for sure.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like I'm still learning uh the book writing world.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: When you're writing a song, do you always do you always have an inkling of whether you think it'll connect with people and be a hit, or just sometimes you you record something, you put it out there, and something is a surprise hit, or something that you thought was going to be a big hit.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of as a dud.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm curious how how that process works and whether you know in advance whether you think something will connect or not.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: That is a really great question.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um I have learned that I don't know.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so there are moments I'm like, I think this is really special.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think it might connect, but I always know and and hold with that that I might be wrong.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that there's just as much chance that I'm wrong.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I don't, I just don't can and part of the reason I don't trust my instinct is I know that these days marketing and being the loudest on socials is kind of what gets that job done and what gets the song into people's hands.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't tend to be the loudest in that in that social media space.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes I know that, you know, if if if a certain playlist finds a song, it might do very well.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it might really connect with people, but but I just am never I'm never quite sure.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I guess I guess my answer would be there are moments that I I think, oh, this really this really could connect.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I always know that I'm that I don't know.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so what I have learned, kind of going back to our earlier point, what I have really learned to try my best to do is um make the song as connect ready as possible, you know, to make it something that others could relate to, um, you know, to play it for a few people and see how it's connecting with them, if there's any part that they don't understand.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I maybe just as I've gotten older, I feel less um ownership isn't the right word.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: I feel less like the songs belong to me, and I feel like they belong.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps I start them and I create them, but they belong to also my audience and those that they encourage.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, I feel like it's a it's a more collaborative process in that way.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I definitely like for people to not not to maybe critique each word, but I like for them to say, hey, this this part isn't clear, or you know, this, you know, things like that to give input, um, I find very valuable.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: I think in the beginning days of my career, I did not feel that way.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I I just thought I knew all the all the things, all the best directions.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we all do when we're young.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're you know, we see people who are 20, 30, 40 years ahead of us in life, and we think, oh, those old fuddy duddies, what do they know?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: They don't know anything.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm young and hip and whatever.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: So and then we get older and kind of realize, oh, maybe I don't know everything.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right, exactly.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's so true.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: We'll get back to the conversation in just a moment, but first, a big thanks to today's sponsor, Vellum.
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• 20:54
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• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: And now back to the conversation.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting because the journey that you're describing as a songwriter is very similar to I think what a lot of writer what a lot of book writers go through.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: In the sense of there's always this push and pull between what you want to express through your art and through your writing, but then what the audience wants to hear.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes the things that we want to express, we want to get our emotions out or tell our story, are things that may be slightly askew from what the audience actually wants or needs from us.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really hard because you have to think about the like the marketing, the business side and the monetization and what's going to connect and all those things.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, you want it to have uh heart and soul and and be authentic.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, we've all probably heard of those heard of musicians and and writers who basically it's uh they just crank out stuff and and maybe there's not as much heart and soul to it.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: I guess that's always something that every artist of every kind probably contend with.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yes.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think that is the the uh the joy and the sorrow that we get to that we get to navigate um through our artist journeys, you know.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: We um I I wrestle with that all the time.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I've I've just learned it's better to not overthink it and to keep moving and to keep creating.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um and to know that some days I am gonna feel the joy of, wow, this was a wonderful, you know, this was a wonderful venture, people get it.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: And some days I'm gonna feel the sorrow of I I don't know why they're I don't know why it's not connecting with people.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, as as um as someone that gets to perform what I've created, what I often find is, you know, some audiences really connect with a certain thing and some audiences connect with another.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: So um you you just you just never know.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why I I want to not be too um, I don't, I'm trying to think of the best word to use, but I don't want to be too uh focused, too laser focused on one piece of art.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, once it's created, once I've thought through it, once I've gotten feedback, I want to keep moving.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think I've been paralyzed uh many times in my creative journey by just not not creating, not being afraid to create, being afraid.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how to check all those boxes you mentioned, like how to make it accessible and how to sell it and how to still sort of um be true to myself and my heart.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so um I think just continuing to create has really helped me dig out of that hole and continuing to write, I always tell folks when I'm teaching about writing that if you'll just and I and I don't always take my own advice here, but if if we just spend even 10 minutes, five minutes in the mornings writing, you know, um, like Julia Cameron called it morning pages, but whatever it is that we would call it, writing unedited, I do feel like it does something, it connects something in our brain that uh I don't know, that that moves our creativity forward, that inspires us to think of new ideas.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think there's something that we do where we kind of go, oh, I just I should sit down and write today.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: But if you just do sit down, you know, even for five minutes and just write something.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I think it then makes it um more accessible, easier to continue to show up and do it each day.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: I always say, you know, like songwriting is or or any kind of writing is your friend, right?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's your very close friend.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you pursue a relationship with it, you will know it better, uh, you will trust it more, um, you will, you know, uh, you will flourish uh in that friendship.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's kind of my my way of of not being overwhelmed by those questions.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh so the the the songs that you your own songs that you love the most.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: How were those written?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: Were those were those written in moments where you sort of sat down?
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I know every song's different, I'm just kind of generalizing.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: But what as you think about those, were those written in the way that you describe where, hey, I've got this this maybe an idea for a lyric, or I've got an idea for a melody or a theme or uh an image or whatever it is.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna sit down and I'm just gonna do it here in the moment.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Or are there are there times when you have kind of intentionally sat down and it's like, okay, I'm here in the moment, I've taken this big amount of time, I'm gonna compose this important thing or whatever it is.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious how that process has worked for you and your songwriting.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Both ways.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um of my favorite songs that I've written, though, I've kind of sat and you know, tapped my pen, as it were, for founds before I ever wrote it.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like free, which was my first single at radio, and did a song that did well for me, and a song that I still love to sing, uh, was a song that I thought about writing for, I don't know, six months.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then one day I sat down and wrote it in 15 minutes.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that's a pretty extreme case.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't usually happen.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: But um, and especially these days, I do a lot more co-writing.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: I just finished grad school and just with the book and everything, I just find it's it's sometimes more helpful to have other folks' input on ideas because they go quicker than six months.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I do feel like um some of my favorite songs that I've written were like free, and there's some more recent songs where I just kind of had to sit and think about the idea for a while.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was kind of like my brain worked, I don't know, worked out the puzzle enough that by the time I sat down, I could sort of crank out the majority of the song in, you know, 15 minutes to half an hour, and then I could do tweaks later.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but yeah, I think it's really been yeah, thinking through the theme, thinking through the ideas, and then kind of, you know, nudging it, rolling it around in my wee little brain until finally it's it's time to sit down and do it.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think I'm super curious about um this is a question I don't think I've asked.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't actually think I've ever asked anybody on this podcast.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: I've done a lot of interviews over the years, but something that I've that I was um so I was scrolling through your YouTube channel.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: This has been two weeks ago.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I always sort of do some detective work anytime that I have somebody on the show.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_02: Like and I think it was on your YouTube channel.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: It was a conversation you were having with a Michael W.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Smith.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't remember exactly what you were talking about in the conversation.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was about how you met and how he has become a mentor figure to you.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm curious for I'm curious what your advice might be for writers who are feeling a little bit lonely.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, even though we're connected on social media to the whole world virtually, a lot of people are a lot of writers, particularly, are kind of introverted, kind of lonely, and they really could use a mentor type of a figure in their life.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_02: Do you have any thoughts on the importance of finding?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm sure you have lots of mentors in your life.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had as many as I would like, but okay.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: But now, well, I love that idea because I, well, first of all, we're always going to feel a little bit lonely, a little bit melancholy, right?
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's just what writers do.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's who we are.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I think even with mentors, some of that doesn't go away.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: At least for me, it doesn't.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like I hear that in in friends and and people that I've taught.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think, especially with um the the wonderful World Wide Web, there are so many uh places to find uh songwriting mentors.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um so yes, I would say mentors and perhaps it's too much pressure, even to say, I've got to go find a mentor.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's true.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you could go out and just find fellow songwriters to just know.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you get comfortable, you maybe move to writing together or sharing your songs.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: And as you find out they're safe people, maybe you find a mentor in that group, you know.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think there are wonderful spots.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: There are plenty of people that um teach songwriting and um that mentor songwriters online.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I know I know it's happening in in wonderful places, and um so I I definitely think you know it's it's a click away, but finding people, especially in your own community.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if you're in church, you know, um finding some fellow musicians, some fellow writers to just hang with.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: You don't even have, I just would say keep it as low pressure as possible.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe at first it's it's not about collaborating, it's just about, you know, connecting as as two creatives.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: I always find when I meet creative people, even if they're in a different sort of field of creativity, um, I'm always like, wow, we, you know, we just read each other better than all the business folks in my in my church who are thinking about investments and what I don't know.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: But um yeah, I would just say start, start somewhere, start uh looking for those folks, um, you know, certainly finding them in Facebook groups or whatever.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um but anybody um speaking, anyone who is wise, who's been down the road you're traveling, that you allow to speak into your songwriting, even if you don't like everything they say, it will be super helpful, super encouraging.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think to your point about loneliness, I think it just brings it lifts us right out of our loneliness just to have someone else to talk to, to listen to our ideas, even just that alone, just playing a song for someone can just be encouraging.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it can help us think of ideas that we haven't thought of before, you know, for how to tweak the song or how to you know, of course, the same for reading your writing to somebody.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Just there's something about reading it out loud and realizing there's someone else in the room that it can have an impact on that that helps you maybe know how you want to tweak it.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think there's incredible, uh, incredible value in having a mentor, but you know, again, but maybe not putting your pressure pressure on yourself to just go find that person tomorrow, but just beginning to move into an artist kind of community and connection as you can.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Man, that's that's great.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: I I feel like there's there's so much of a greater need now than maybe ever before, even in spite of all our technological connections, people seem to be more lonely and there's more mental health issues.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: Or maybe there's actually not more, maybe we just are realizing it more.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm I don't know what the answer is, but but there seems to be at least a greater awareness, if not a greater more instances of it.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_02: So those personal relationships are so critical.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: They are well, and I think part of that comes from, you know, we we artists tend to be kind of sensitive, thoughtful types, right?
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: So then you get online, you get on social media, and everyone else seems to be having so much fun, and you know, because they're posting their perfect pictures, and so we are, you know, then kind of left feeling even more lonely, like, wow, I really need to get my act together, or I really my life's really lacking.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think you're right, just having true friendships, true one-on-one personal uh interactions with people really is so helpful.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I want to respect your time and I appreciate this so much.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I do have a couple questions to wrap it up here.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm curious what the next few years holds for Jenny Owens.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: What what's what's in store for you, music-wise or creative-wise?
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: Any hints you can give us?
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I hope just to continue to create more music.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, hoping later this fall to record uh the next album I was telling you about that's actually already already written, but not recorded at all.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that will be a lot of fun.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and those are songs, I don't know what I'll call the album, but it's it's um a collection of songs that are kind of lessons, life lessons I've learned, you know, things that that I hope to um share uh with those that I mentor.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: So whether it's you know verbally or just communicating those things in action, just the lessons that I've learned that I that I want to share with others.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then I hope to write uh some more books as well.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll see what happens.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I of course I'm a huge champion of books, and I'm always excited when people want to put books out there into the world.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_02: So so whenever that happens, I want to have you back on the show again.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: And wonderful, you know, so I can help promote your book and well, obviously read it.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, please get the word out.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome, thank you.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: Where can people find out more about your music and your book and all the things that you're doing?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh ginnyoens.com is the best resource, G-I-N-N-Y, O W E N S.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I'm on Instagram at Ginny Owens Official and then uh Facebook's Ginny Owens Music.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm everywhere.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: So if you go to everywhere, yeah, if you go to the website, you'll find it all.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: I do also write a weekly email, um, usually kind of a more devotional email, but also share fun things that are going on and new music uh that is coming out.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I actually do most of uh well, I do all of that writing myself.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I I usually direct folks there.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: So if you go to the website, you can subscribe there.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: Perfect.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: I love the fact that you're doing a weekly email.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: I see a lot of artists who who aren't doing those kinds of things, and I think, oh my gosh, you're missing out on such an incredible opportunity to add value to people and and help them get engaged in what you're doing.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: So congrats.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thanks.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's good practice for me to just keep writing, you know.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, again, Jenny, thanks so much.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: This has been an absolute blast.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: I've really enjoyed having you in the show.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I never thought when I got your first album way back in the day that I would be talking to you in a couple of couple of decades.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: It took a while, I guess, but I appreciate the opportunity.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, thank you so much, Kent.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: What a what an honor for me.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: So great to meet you.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you again.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: Wasn't that a fun and inspiring conversation?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: Again, one of the reasons that I do a podcast, there's a lot of reasons I do a podcast, but one of the big ones is again that I just get to talk to really cool and inspiring people.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_02: And honestly, if if there were no other benefits of doing a podcast, I would still do it for that reason alone.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: Because I get to have these conversations that um that allow me to talk about these really important issues with artists and musicians and writers and authors and business people and just uh such a cool range of people that I feel so blessed to talk to.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope that you enjoyed this conversation just as much as I did.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: I want to encourage you to do three things.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: Normally I just have you know one main thing that I may ask you to do, but I want to encourage you to do three things.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, go check out Ginny's website and get on her email list.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's gennyowens.com.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: G-I-N-N-Y Owens.com.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's thing number one.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: Number two, check out her book called Singing in the Dark, Finding Hope in the Songs of Scripture.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's a link in the show notes to the book on Amazon.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_02: And number three, check out her brand new album called I Know a Secret.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: I've got a link in the show notes to the album on Spotify.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, you can find it anywhere that you would find streaming music nowadays, but I happen to have a link to Spotify in there.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: Check it out.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think you're really, really gonna like it.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_02: And if you've never heard Ginny's music before, I think you're going to become a fan immediately.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: As always, thank you so much for listening.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I always appreciate your time.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: I never ever want to take your time for granted as a listener.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: And so I always want to tell you frequently how much I appreciate you listening.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I also want to give a big thanks to Ginny for taking the time to be a guest today.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: It was really, really so much fun to talk with you.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: All right, my friends, as always, thanks for listening, and I'll see you next time.