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Why the US Will Never Beat China in Construction Speed? · The Punch List

• 0:00
  Data centers take about three years to construct in the US. While in China they can build a
• 0:03
  hospital in a weekend. Before World War two, where it's easy to forget, the
• 0:10
  United States was so successful because it out produced everyone. There are 24 permits or
• 0:16
  inspections that have to happen during construction. This is a national security concern.
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  Regulators came in and said, we are dropping all regulations on containing bids like we build that
• 0:26
  software in like seven days. Man three large GCS. So we have built data centers in 11 months and 12
• 0:32
  months or 14 months. How did they do that? Welcome to the Punch List Podcast, the number one
• 0:39
  podcast in the world for architecture, engineering and construction. I'm here today with Carnarvon
• 0:44
  Tech. Uh, my lovely co-host. I have been traveling all week in Chicago,
• 0:51
  meeting with investors and in Michigan setting houses on foundations. I'm back in
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  California Excited to be back with you, too. Yeah. What have you been doing all week? Is this the first
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  week, after six weeks, that we have been all in California for the first time together? Maybe
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  this travel. Too? Yeah. Yeah, I. Think it's very interesting. Very, um, in a way bittersweet. I
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  mean, as you guys know, I was in India last few weeks, and, uh, I went there for my dad's birthday,
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  which was a fun event. But, uh, over the course of the trip, my uncle passed away, actually. Oh,
• 1:29
  sorry. Yeah. Uh, but it was it was my first time to be at a military funeral. He was. I didn't even
• 1:35
  know this. Like he was a war hero. There was a whole flag ceremony and, you know, and and the band.
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  And he was 86. And, you know, I was, uh, I was talking to someone about it. If I were to go, I'd like to
• 1:48
  go maybe that way, because he was super engaged. Super like all there till till
• 1:54
  his last day. And then, you know, he he had a blood clot and he passed away. But, you know, it was quick.
• 2:01
  He didn't suffer. And, um, he lived a great life. So anyways. Good trip. Sorry to hear that. I'm
• 2:08
  glad you were home, though, to be able to go to experience all that with your family. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:14
  Talking about India, I never hadn't I never ask you this question before. Like most
• 2:21
  kids our age, when we were like growing up in school in India at least wanted to either become
• 2:27
  a software engineer or a doctor. Hmm. Like, why did you choose to build buildings?
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  I mean, it's a great question. Um, uh, the answer is not super
• 2:42
  flattering to start with. Just like all the kids. I also wanted to do computer engineering. But, you
• 2:47
  know, as you're aware, in India, based on how you score, you have to pick your given the branch, uh,
• 2:54
  rather than you being able to pick. So. So in some ways, civil engineering was the limited choices
• 3:01
  I had. Civil engineering was the was the best or the branch I took. But over.
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  Over my undergraduate, I really fell in love with the profession. So much so I had a chance.
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  I had an offer to work for a software company and, and I would say in the class of 56 people I
• 3:22
  was in, only four of us are in civil engineering, other 52 are either MBAs or computer like our
• 3:28
  software guys. Wow. So? So at that time, I decided to stick with the stick with the core. I had an offer
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  as a structural engineer, so I decided to become a structural engineer, um, where I had a
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  great opportunity to design power plants. And, uh, I really enjoyed that
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  experience. I wish we built general buildings, like, we build power plants where an engineer is not
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  just responsible for design. You're also responsible for giving material quantities, in
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  fact. I had to order rebar. Um, which which I don't think anyone here does in general building at
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  all. It's all left to the general contractor. The US, though, by the way. He courts at us. They all
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  they they all measure the quantities. Yeah. I mean, which is how it should be. Uh, so so, you know, it
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  was, uh, I enjoyed the experience because I was designing a building, but also ordering material.
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  And I was really responsible for the material, uh, being right, if it didn't fit, there was no RFI. It
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  was just like, what the hell did you do? Like, you know. So, um, and then, yeah, moving on from that, I, I
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  ended up, um, coming to Stanford for my masters and, uh, which was in civil engineering.
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  Um, I mean, the other great connect was my grandfather was a civil engineer, and, uh, he is
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  remembered, you know, in our home state as engineer collar. Like, that was his moniker because he built
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  hydroelectric power plants and really, you know, focused on infrastructure, uh, building power
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  stations all over the country. And, um, yeah. So, uh, after Stanford, I had another opportunity to
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  switch to McKinsey, more on the consulting role. And, uh, again, decided to stick with,
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  um. Uh, I just fell in love with buildings. I there is I don't know if there is no pleasure.
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  Like, now that I'm in software, I can even compare and contrast this, you know, like how we as we're
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  building the product, we say, oh, we added this, this UI feature, we added this drop down feature, but
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  there's nothing better than watching a physical building go up that you can walk, touch, feel and
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  really interact with. And it is you can touch slides too. Yeah. My my slides are made by
• 5:44
  Mackenzie. You can touch them too. Yeah. With, with a with a pointer. Mouse pointer. Yeah.
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  So no but it's like to be physically walk inside your product is an experience that's kind of hard
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  to define, I feel sometimes. And and and the I mean that's why like with AI, we really feel it
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  that it's the infrastructure that really drives how human beings in a nation live. I mean, I just
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  I think it's a very, um, uh, it's one of those professions that I don't think is admired
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  enough. And people understand the value it adds to the country, to the society. And so so I'm, I
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  consider myself very, very lucky to be a small part of it. So very cool.
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  Very cool and kind of. Well, thank you for sharing that. TC. Uh, kind of. Where were you this week? Uh,
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  what's going on? I've been mostly in in town. I've not traveled this
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  week. We have stuff going on next week. We have, uh, Brokaw has the ground break
• 6:53
  conference. We're going to be there that have two more conferences. Yeah, I think from now to the end
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  of the year, I have on the road, man, uh, pretty much every week. But yeah, it was good.
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  I'm shipping in a bunch of quotations today. Out the door. So
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  busy, good and busy. Yeah, I think that post Labor Day through Thanksgiving is like one of
• 7:19
  the busy times of the year where people really try to put in a lot of activity. Yeah. Um,
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  and then there's another little sugar rush after Thanksgiving for two weeks. Well, you know, end of
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  the year deals, but, um. No, it's good. This is why we do what we do. And, um, travel
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  is part of it, and and it's good. Um. But it tells you. How's your Michigan
• 7:46
  development going on? Great. We just set two houses. Uh, on Wednesday. We're setting two more next
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  Thursday. Uh, really we have you have about 36 weeks of construction there because of the snow
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  really slows things down. So we're we're we're kind of pounding through till, uh, December to
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  get, you know, about ten more in the ground, um, before the snow hits. So. But great.
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  And I was in Chicago. It was, like, unseasonably warm. Uh, it was Columbus Day, you
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  know, holiday. And the city was bustling, so, um, it was good, but glad to be home, glad to
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  be with my kids and wife and back from that travel. So. Yeah. Um, okay.
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  Uh, news of the week. Um, we've been talking a lot about data center construction
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  and speed, and I think what it's illuminating here is
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  the business climate and how tough it is to build in a lot of parts of the US these days. And so
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  we have a quote from Jensen Wong, uh, Nvidia CEO. He says data
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  centers take about three years to construct in the US, while in China they can build a hospital
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  in a weekend. Um, quote from fortune magazine. You know, I think it's a little bit
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  hyperbolic, but, uh, I'm not sure that's totally true. Um, however I get we get the point
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  that, um, it's it's it's tough and arduous to build in the United States, both from a
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  regulatory standpoint, our supply chain, our whole, um, structure around construction. And his point
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  is that this is a national security concern. If we cannot get these data centers online at the speed
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  and pace which the token demand is, is, is, you know, increasing. And so,
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  um, I throw it open to both of you to comment on this And what's your big takeaway here?
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  Okay. I mean, I'll start with one correction. I don't think China can build a hospital in a
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  weekend if they're building it in a weekend. I wouldn't want to be in that hospital. Um, but I
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  mean, bottom line is China does do prefab a lot. They they have actually, I was talking to Martin
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  Fisher about this. He's a professor at Stanford and lead safety center for integrated
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  Facilities. And one thing he mentioned was I remember going to China in like early 2000, and we
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  talked about BIM and 3D modeling and how to optimize processes. And then he went back like
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  eight years later. And they had really like they had trained thousands of people just churning out
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  these models, which allowed for more and more of prefab. So, um, you know, hospital
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  construction there and data center construction there Is most likely way faster than how it's
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  done in US. But that's also because they've really embraced prefab. Um, which has that that door was
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  open by doing a lot of 3D modeling early enough in a design process. So so they just they've just
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  taken construction, uh, on a war footing in general. I mean, look at high speed rail. China is able to
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  put high speed rail really quickly. Uh, I mean, last we all know, the attempt California made trying to
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  put high speed rail and it didn't work out well. Uh, it's it's it's it's referred
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  anecdotally as a train to nowhere because I think it gets to Bakersfield and that's it. Um, and
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  bottom line is no one else has in the United States attempted to do that. And I always
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  go back to how United States operated during World War II, where it's easy to forget that the
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  United States was so successful because it out produced everyone and not just one on one.
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  They they made more guns, more aircrafts, more submarines, more ships, more aircraft carriers
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  than everyone else combined. Allies, plus the axis powers. And that was how it was. You know,
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  United States was able to dominate, and I think so if you take that, uh, you know,
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  if you take that information in, I would say if it is a priority, that is not for us to define if
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  data center is a priority or not, if it is a priority and the United States puts their mind to
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  it. I mean, I think speed wise it can be comparable to China or faster than China. The brain power
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  is here to do that. So yeah, I think there are there are. I
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  completely agree with you. I mean, that's that's more and all, but I think if we ever solve it, I
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  see two, Two problems to be solved systematically, right?
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  One is, uh, we come into our own ways when we think of our construction.
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  Right? So let me prove my point through and through an analogy. So let's
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  say, John, I said, you, uh. Sure. Why don't you. Why don't you build a website for your
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  on a web app for your own startup? Right. But I say, hey, John, you don't work by yourself.
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  You have a different company for designing it, a different company for,
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  uh, working on its front end of the application, a different company working on the back end of the
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  application, a different company writing the AI agent spotted a different company doing the QA, QC
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  on it, a different company doing XYZ. You get the point and you say, hey, you use six companies, build
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  something, build my my my website together, right? They will all eat their own
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  incentives. They will all delay the decision making. They will all want to come in their own
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  ways. They will all want to coordinate and delay things. This just goes on. And that's how
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  that's what it. That's what it is in construction. Right. So has I
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  think that's one point. Uh, we come into our own ways. And then the second point is
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  we used to have our own supply chain in the US back in the world. War days end to end. So we used
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  to control it. Now we don't have our own supply chain. Right. So if you have to wait one year for
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  an electrical generator to come to, to, to generate power on site, you can't build it. You can't
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  power a center in six months. Even if you build it right. So Now. Has anyone solved it?
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  Yes. Um. First point I have seen. I can't name names, but I know
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  three large GCS general contractors who have built data centers in 11 months and 12 months and
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  14 months, and not three years. And how did they do that? They said, give
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  me control over design and give me control over subcontractors. I
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  won't I will not do five a bidding of subcontractors across all trades. I know the ones
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  I have to work with. We have done coordination before. We have to do it very fast. Simple, right? We,
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  we know, come into our own ways and supply chain. I mean, Elon Musk is no there's no one
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  better than him because he goes really deep and looks at all the elements of supply chain and and
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  figures the alternates out. If we don't have X let's let's do Y, and he wants to do it across the
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  whole supply chain down to the T of like I still remember he built like this datacenter in six
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  months, right. Which was huge. Uh, I don't know the elements of of
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  supply chain he fixed, but I know for a fact in his aircraft, uh, there was this actuator which
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  used to cost $6,000. Simple actuator or simple small metal
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  piece that Russia was applying for for six K. And he told his team, what the heck is this? And
• 16:17
  they're like, yeah, we we can build this in-house. The build out in $200. Right?
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  So, uh, he finds ways to go down to the bottom of the supply chain and fixed alternates. Right. So
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  if we get to it, we can find final supply chain alternatives. We can not get
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  into our ways, and we can do it much faster. I mean, one one anecdote I have on the supply chain, right?
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  We we we. We might have mentioned that the Empire State Building, um, conversation, but the, the, the
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  supply chain was so tight that the hot rolled steel that came off of Pittsburgh and got to New
• 16:57
  York was still warm, like, you like it was like getting warm bread, like the the the steel
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  is they actually had they had to they had to spend time letting it cool down before they
• 17:09
  loaded it on the truck, but was still warm by the time it got to New York. I mean, that's how tight
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  the supply chain was when Empire State Building was being built. But I'm hearing both, you know,
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  vertical integration of everything, supply chain consolidation, integration and,
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  um, you know, not just with the data centers, which I
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  do think, you know, and I think Jensen's point is that this is a national security issue. And we and
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  to your point, TC, we should take a war footing here. Um, I think we should do this with housing. I
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  mean, there's a there's a big crisis here. Um, it's pretty much like, across the political spectrum. We
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  all agree. And so how do we do this? I think from the private sector, we should lead by example.
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  Um, so, you know, as we sit and talk and I listen to you talk about, uh, integration, kind of.
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  I, you know, I, I need to live that, too. Uh, you know, with probably stuff that I'm
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  doing, uh, you know, maybe integration, vertical integration with our, you know, versus
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  subcontracting all of our elements out. We should do that to for scale and cost. But then, um,
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  we need partners on the public sector, too. We need to operate, like, a, uh, a
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  priority. I think the rhetoric is all there. I think everyone says this. It's an emergency. We use
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  like war. like descriptions of this, but you really have to do it.
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  And I think that's where, um, I tell politicians, like with our deals,
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  if you want this to work, we actually have to be in partnership together with the elected
• 18:56
  officials and the staff and the regulators. And that's like true of any place. And so,
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  you know, I challenge everybody to to do that on the public and private sector. It's not we can't
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  just point it to government and say make it easier on us. We have to we have to set an example
• 19:15
  by doing the things that, um, you're describing. And I think that also often takes disrupting the
• 19:22
  status quo, certainly in the commercial, you know, construction setting, um, because these systems are
• 19:29
  in place and they're easier and it's all about risk shifting. And it's it's harder to do it all
• 19:35
  in house. It's harder to do it this way is. Something I liked about the liberators, John,
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  because that's the other part, right? Which I missed is
• 19:46
  under the umbrella of fire life safety. Any and every revolution is put into that purview. Right?
• 19:53
  We should clear the regulation of what's wildlife safety and what's not, and what's not should be,
• 19:58
  like, deregulated a lot more. Like, I'll give you one example. Right when Covid happened. Like, I
• 20:05
  still remember it was, uh, end of March, I think, right when when Covid happened
• 20:12
  in the lockdown in 22. Sorry. 2020. Uh, I was into healthtech. Right. So we
• 20:18
  were building software for healthcare firms. And one fine day like this is just that one day of
• 20:25
  lockdown, we realized we need to provide telemedicine. And the telemedicine was only like
• 20:32
  4% penetration in the US, like most of the care was delivered in person. Virtual care
• 20:39
  was less than 4%. Regulators came in and said, we are dropping all regulations on
• 20:45
  telemedicine built and why we built, the whole industry built. We built. This been
• 20:52
  great for everybody. It's been great. Yeah. Everything. Like we build that software in like
• 20:57
  seven days, man. It was crazy like that whole television stuff in seven days and there was no
• 21:03
  regulation. And it's been amazing for everybody, right? So. But they made sure that the safety
• 21:09
  regulations are there. It's just the it's just the other stuff that that goes out. Right. So you are
• 21:15
  still liable for leaking health care data, but you're not liable for stupid things like, you know,
• 21:21
  or you need to take permissions and recordings and all that, remove all that stuff and fluff just
• 21:27
  build. Yeah, I think I've said this on the pod. I've certainly said it to others, um,
• 21:34
  in my market where I'm operating right now. Um, so I'm building modular single family
• 21:40
  homes. They're built in a factory, and they're set. Uh, we have to get a planning approval and then a
• 21:47
  master building permit. So that's a set of approvals. Um, and that takes 30 days, sometimes 60
• 21:53
  days. We're trying to get it down to 15. And after the city
• 22:00
  issues the master building permit, there are for a modular house. There are 24 permits or inspections
• 22:07
  that have to happen during construction. If we were stick building it, it would be closer to 32
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  or 34. Oh, wow. So we need to rethink all that. I mean, how much of
• 22:20
  that is just control and versus, um, what's really needed for life
• 22:27
  safety is that what's really. 24 is that 24 from 24 different departments, or is it 24 from five
• 22:34
  different departments and different. Uh. Yeah. 24 from 3 or 4 different apart departments. Building
• 22:39
  engineering. Uh, water. At least one department can break it.
• 22:46
  Consolidate it to one. Right. That's the least they can do. And then if and then if, you know and then
• 22:52
  if you're if your online permit system isn't working and your contractor has to drive to the
• 22:57
  city to get a permit. Think about the lost time for that. Think about, um, so that that's issuing
• 23:04
  a sub permit underneath the master building permit for some activity. I was talking to one one
• 23:10
  data center guy, and he's like, we were building it out of nowhere, and it's like a three year old
• 23:15
  story. So things might have changed, I don't know, but he was building it out of nowhere. And that
• 23:20
  city did not have Acrobat Reader license in their computers.
• 23:27
  So they asked to to give to get printouts, three copies
• 23:34
  of a data center. They had to. They had to bring a truckload of paper. They didn't have the place to
• 23:39
  store it in their in their office. That hasn't been so long ago. Yeah. Like where that was a
• 23:45
  requirement in Silicon Valley jurisdictions for printouts. Uh, in Sunnyvale, for example, we used to
• 23:52
  have to print out three copies. Um, and then, you know, think about the not just the permissive
• 23:58
  instructions. But, you know, where Apple is headquartered. Yeah. And so think about permits, you
• 24:04
  know, inspections to that, you know, that requires scheduling. Another person who is a
• 24:11
  city employee who, you know, an inspector for a house or a water heater,
• 24:18
  sometimes it's the same. It's the same inspector that's inspecting a large industrial construction
• 24:23
  operation or a large commercial office building is also inspecting your water heater. And so, um,
• 24:30
  one the scope and breadth of what they're doing every day is large to their transiting back and
• 24:35
  forth to, you know, all these different sites. And then three, you know, they're operating on not
• 24:42
  private sector time, right. So that just adds and compounds to the
• 24:49
  these schedules. Yeah. I mean, one clarification I would have on the war footing
• 24:55
  statement, I think if I were to prioritize it, I mean, uh, I would say it's like you're saying, John,
• 25:02
  home building and infrastructure because that will unblock a lot of things for, you know,
• 25:08
  like buy infrastructure because the money is already earmarked for infrastructure that bills
• 25:13
  passed the money. By infra you mean energy infrastructure. Well, not just energy,
• 25:19
  but power plants. Uh, it's it's three ways. It's it's it's like getting people from point A to.
• 25:25
  Point sewer water. Yeah. We have we've had these are generally problems of abundance and
• 25:32
  success, that we layer all of these things on there. And so periodically we need to kind of take
• 25:38
  a hard look at pulling it down. And I agree with Jensen that this is a national security concern.
• 25:44
  So, um, okay, one last fun topic for today. Uh, did you guys
• 25:51
  watch the any of the Tesla Roadster, uh, premiere last night? I watched a little
• 25:57
  bit, um, enough to get the gist, which is. Yeah. Back to the future, baby. Uh, yeah.
• 26:05
  One of my favorite movies, and it came to light. So I think the point here is
• 26:11
  that you, like, love him or hate him, Elon Musk is moving the ball forward and
• 26:18
  pushing boundaries. I you know, I think the critics are going to say, oh, what's the point of this? Uh,
• 26:25
  but sometimes the very point is that you can do it. And I what I think is very interesting is
• 26:32
  the technology transfer between the propulsion systems that space and then
• 26:38
  putting this into a car. Uh, I don't know what the, you know, real world
• 26:45
  application. Other than it being really cool is going to be. But I'm glad someone is doing it and
• 26:50
  thinking about it and just think about it. He did. He just did build a flying car with air.
• 26:55
  Compressed air. That's incredible. Which can which can reach us by itself. By the way, you don't have
• 27:02
  to. Keep. Fueling it again and again. So that's even better, right? But I think there are there
• 27:09
  are two better points to it. Here is one is obviously Tory, said John. He's an amazing builder
• 27:15
  and his whole team is I mean obviously the hidden building by himself. But the team, he he amasses
• 27:22
  the challenges he gives them and the audacity he has to go deeper and solve them. You know, roll up
• 27:28
  your sleeves is amazing. Like, uh, it's more amazing of his age. Like, I cannot think
• 27:35
  of me at 55 or 60. Doing that stuff, like, you know, it's. That's crazy, man. I mean,
• 27:42
  I'm, I'm already like, late 30s and I'm like, man, this is my second stint. And, uh, it's amazing. I
• 27:49
  can't think of my fifth stint and and having that much of an energy in me. Right. So.
• 27:55
  But I think there is one more prediction I have, uh, which is.
• 28:02
  He was trying to show the world that if we integrate Tesla and SpaceX together, it's going
• 28:09
  to be amazing. And he just merged SpaceX and X air together.
• 28:17
  And I think now he has more space at the store together. And this was the first demonstration of
• 28:22
  that to the world. Well, I would say let's do more testing. I'm not. You know,
• 28:31
  I don't know about these things. I mean, you know. Um, I mean, one thing I'll say about Elon
• 28:37
  Musk, the, the at least I would say the older version of it, uh, before he turned very political
• 28:44
  these days. So I'll stay away from that part. But, um, I remember when electric Cars first came out, I
• 28:51
  think Nissan Leaf was the first one. And I looked at that thing and I'm like, I don't know. I mean, no
• 28:56
  shade on it. I'm like, I don't know if I want to drive that thing. I mean, it just, you know, it
• 29:00
  looked looked like a lunchbox and whatever, right. You know, um, but then Tesla came out and like,
• 29:07
  man, this is a cool car. I don't care if it's electric or not. I'd love to drive this thing. And
• 29:13
  and I think that was a major contribution by, by Elon Musk where, you know, outside
• 29:20
  of like because electric car used to be like people who are buying Nissan Leaf for like
• 29:24
  hardcore like more on the environmentalist side than like people who are car enthusiasts. But he
• 29:30
  bought car enthusiast who was the electric cars because he built something real. Um, and which was
• 29:37
  really, I mean, I, I would say before Elon Musk, a lot of these tech
• 29:43
  billionaires were focusing on building products that enhanced communication, um, you know, and
• 29:50
  social networking and all that good stuff, and then using that to sell ads. Whereas here comes
• 29:57
  this guy who built something real, like something physical, something you can touch, feel and use in
• 30:03
  your daily life. Um, I mean, same is true for SpaceX. Same is true for The Boring Company.
• 30:09
  Started. Um, so, I mean, I do see value in that. I just wish he was less political and
• 30:16
  more focused on those things. Yeah. You know, in in you guys know this here in Silicon
• 30:23
  Valley. Look, the reputation when you go work for one of these companies is that
• 30:31
  it's a grind. I mean, he, you know, you work your tail off. He has he is known for, you know,
• 30:38
  attracting the best and brightest and youngest people and really getting like 5 or 6 years out
• 30:44
  of them and people just collapse. But they often say that was the best experience I ever had. And
• 30:50
  so look at the output. I mean, I think there are some dark parts to him.
• 30:58
  You know, I think we've seen it. Um, whatever your political persuasion is that, you know, he's a
• 31:03
  complex character. Um, but I'm just really glad that he's alive and he's
• 31:09
  contributing and he's on our team and what he's doing for innovation. And he's certainly going to
• 31:16
  be a historic figure and talked about. And, you know, I, I'm cheering on all the work that they're
• 31:22
  doing for the benefit of all of us. And I can hold two. I feel like I can hold both
• 31:29
  of those things in my head. The complexity, maybe some of the dark behavior, but then all of the
• 31:36
  advantages and all the innovation that he's pushing forward. So I love it. I wish we had more
• 31:42
  of people doing this. I think, you know, if we had people doing this in the home building world and
• 31:46
  everything else, it would be awesome. So let's roll. Someone was saying. When are you
• 31:53
  getting your roadster? Conniff? Well, his thing is he's coming in production 28, so let's see if it
• 31:59
  does. You didn't put down the 53. You didn't put down the 50,000 like eight years ago or something.
• 32:04
  I always wait for version two. If you have kids, don't do that for cars. I wait for
• 32:11
  version two. Uh, typically. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, I mean, uh, someone said this, right? Which
• 32:18
  was like, you don't come into construction as well. It's going to be amazing. Yeah.
• 32:25
  Yeah. I think he's flirted with it a little bit with some of this robotic printing and stuff in
• 32:30
  Texas. Um, so, yeah. Solar tiles. I like that solar tiles idea a lot. I don't know, whatever happened.
• 32:36
  I've got Tesla panels and battery packs on my house, and we've had like 52 power hour
• 32:43
  power outages, and I had warm babies and lights on, and it was awesome.
• 32:50
  Yeah. So. Yeah. Amazing. Dark side. You said right away. He himself says you don't want to be me.
• 32:57
  You think I. My life is good. My life is not good. Man, you don't want to be me.
• 33:03
  That's. That's one thing. I 100% agree with him. I see that, and, like, I don't know. Yeah.
• 33:10
  Yeah. Well, gentlemen, it's good to see you. And, uh. Fun. Always fun to talk
• 33:17
  about. Hear your opinions. Thank you so much. And, uh, we'll talk again soon.