Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / The Enneagram Visits Downton Abbey | Part One

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The Enneagram Visits Downton Abbey | Part One · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:02
SPEAKER_00: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted podcast.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: It means so much to have you choose to take this conversation along with you today.
0:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm Amy Wicks, your host, and here at Simply Wholehearted, we provide perspective, purpose, and plans to help you love God, love others, and live your best life.
0:21
SPEAKER_00: Y'all, I have been dreaming of this episode for more than a hot minute.
0:26
SPEAKER_00: And I know some of you are as excited as I am to have an Enneagram conversation about the Downton Abbey characters.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you don't really care about the Downton Abbey movie coming out September 20th, I'm not sure if we can be friends.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: I kid, I kid.
0:42
SPEAKER_00: But if you like the Enneagram, I think you'll want to listen in and at least try an episode or two of Down Abbey.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: Or if you're a big fan of Down Abbey, but you're not yet sure about the Enneagram, well, you may just become intrigued by this very insightful personality resource.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: But if you are both a Down Abbey fan and find the Enneagram as fascinating as most of the Western world does, well, then you are in for a serious treat.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: My youngest sister Annalise, who is a teacher, happens to also be a brilliant actress, a gifted writer, and currently a theater director herself.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: I know, right?
1:24
SPEAKER_00: She's amazing.
1:25
SPEAKER_00: And therefore, she was the perfect one to have this conversation with me.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: She not only got me hooked on the show, but was an early adapter and was tuning in the first episode of Down Abbey.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: And even though I am the Enneagram coach in this conversation, Annalise, who leads as a type 2, helped me determine which type I lead with and is well versed in the Enneagram.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: We both give plenty of disclaimers about the purpose of this conversation, which is completely and totally just for fun.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: But but I actually think you'll learn quite a bit about the Enneagram along the way.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: And to stay true to my promise that season nine will have shorter episodes, I split this conversation into two separate episodes.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: Now remember, if you're new to the Enneagram and you need to know the best place to begin, head on over to simply wholehearted.com where you can find my Enneagram Quick Start Guide and my one-page summary, which gives you an overview of all nine Enneagram types.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: This might be a perfect way to follow along on the conversation.
2:30
SPEAKER_00: Plus, if you're on my website, you can register for a free 30-minute consult for an Enneagram coaching session.
2:37
SPEAKER_00: I have just a few spots left, so grab them while you can.
2:40
SPEAKER_00: Oh, and a shout out to Jessamine Unruh, previously known as Jessamine Hamer, for the lovely music you are hearing in the background.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I will not delay a moment longer.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: So here is the much-awaited Enneagram Meets Downton Abbey.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: The reason why I wanted you to be a part of this very special conversation.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: Because it's not every day we get to talk about the movies, though this year we'll we're gonna have three episodes total that I know of.
3:10
SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe there'll be a surprise one in there where you know we're taking the Anneagram to the movies.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: We're taking Simply Wholehearted and our friends to the movies, Anneagram style.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: Which I love.
3:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we talked about Overcomer this summer, or just actually last month when it came.
3:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I loved that episode.
3:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I really wanted to spend more time talking about the Anneagram character types, but Stephen Kendrick really wasn't there to talk about it.
3:35
SPEAKER_00: So Yeah.
3:37
SPEAKER_00: Which was all good.
3:38
SPEAKER_00: So fantastic.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: But you have a passion and a love not only for our Downton Abbey people, characters.
3:48
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: I really have you to blame to like that show.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.
3:53
SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.
3:54
SPEAKER_00: That's true.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
3:55
SPEAKER_00: I remember I remember I was like, I was ahead of the crowd because you weren't.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: I watched I watched the very first adapter episode on the opening, like the airing night.
4:05
SPEAKER_00: Did you I knew?
4:06
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I did.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: Whoa, look at you.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: That's something you talk about.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: I know.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: Now's your glory moment.
4:12
SPEAKER_00: I was cool.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: That was done.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: You know, you're so cool because now you get to talk with me about their Aneagram types, which I think is so fitting.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: Because not only were you the like trendsetter and early adapter, and you watched John Abbey and hooked me into it, but you are a theater person yourself.
4:31
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: So you really you love the production.
4:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're producing, you've written, and you're a part of directing and helping produce a play there in Colorado Springs.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: We'll have to give a little shout out to that, Heidi.
4:45
SPEAKER_00: Um it's coming out in October.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, I'm gonna take a little trip out there.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: But um, but yeah, so you've been involved in a lot of stage and theater production.
4:53
SPEAKER_00: So you really love it.
4:54
SPEAKER_00: So, why do you think the Enneagram is helpful in light of that?
4:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I it's kind of been a newer revelation for me of realizing the beauty of um, especially if, say, if you're perf uh performing and you're playing a character within um an on-stage piece, or even just even reading, I think fiction can bring this to light of the why.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: Because often directors will say, you know, why, what's the why behind your character?
5:23
SPEAKER_00: What's the motivation?
5:24
SPEAKER_00: And it can be hard to sometimes separate yourself as as your real person to what you're portraying on stage, because it could be a completely opposite character.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: I often get the extreme honor and challenge of pr playing people that are completely different than my real person.
5:42
SPEAKER_00: You've been villainous sometimes, dare we say?
5:44
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, which is not like it at all.
5:47
unknown: I know.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: I hope not.
5:49
SPEAKER_00: Um but I think um someone tried to say that I was being typecast, and I was like, I think you misunderstand that word, being typecast meaning like I am that person in real life and I'm not.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: It's just that I'm frequently get cast as those roles because I can do them quite well because they're they are fun.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: I will say that.
6:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I say that in all humility.
6:10
SPEAKER_00: There is something she does amazingly.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: No shame in saying that.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: But it's I I was thinking on how, wow, I'm as I'm directing and starting to direct this next show, I'm like, man, I wish everyone was fluent in the Enneagram world because it could speak so well to helping find motivations of the why behind um characters and what they're doing and bringing to life another three-dimensional character and human being to life on stage that is a little maybe a little bit of themselves, and maybe they can really relate to the character they're playing, right?
6:46
SPEAKER_00: But it can help give a further depth and a motivation to that why.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: And so when you're talking about um doing this for Downton Abbey, of course, I squealed with delight a little bit.
6:56
SPEAKER_00: Um, and then and I was like, maybe should I do it in a British accent?
7:00
SPEAKER_00: And I then I thought, then I thought my lovely friends in England who listen to your podcast quite regularly might have a really good chuckle when they listen to them.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: They'll be like, oh, oh no, that's not how we sound.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: It's like then I can't think we all have you sound great and we want you to talk to us that way all the time.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: It would be quite lovely, quite lovely.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, so I just find it fascinating.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: And so then putting on that lens of, oh, what are these characters in Downton that we also love and also love to hate or hate to love?
7:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, that we see sometimes we get frustrated and we get pulled in in any TV show where there's some times where we're like, oh, that's so frustrating.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: We see what they're doing wrong, we could see what they could prevent the outcome of what they're facing.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: If only they would only they would do what we would do.
7:54
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
7:55
SPEAKER_00: And I think there's such fun.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: Um and it and it brings uh of course, it's not it's avoiding trying to make um the Enneagram a caricature aspect because it's not, but it does perhaps hopefully maybe put a lens on people who are trying to discover who they what they lead with, what number they lead with.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:13
SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe kind of assessing it and putting in the framework of a fiction piece, whether it's books, whether it's a movie, whether it's a TV show, and maybe it would help them highlight of like, oh yeah, that's why I relate with that character.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: There's some of these aspects of it.
8:26
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, um, I'm excited.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, me too.
8:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so the plan is where we're gonna go with this.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: Kind of gave you the why behind why we thought it's worthwhile doing this, not just to characterize, but because it is fun to see yourself through the lens of you know, a character that you love.
8:44
SPEAKER_00: Um, and also maybe help you understand why you're drawn to those characters, why you find yourself rooting for them.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: Maybe they're mirrored in a sibling that you really are close to, a parent that you're close to, your spouse or a friend.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: They're like, oh yeah, you know, that's that's the connection.
9:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, because each each type is drawn uniquely to the other type.
9:05
SPEAKER_00: Though we have to disclaimer in all of this, as we go through all these types, we're just going off lines and how they're portrayed.
9:14
SPEAKER_00: And let's just say a lot of these characters are not on the very healthy side of being a grandfather.
9:24
SPEAKER_00: They're definitely going into the disintegration of stress and unhealth.
9:29
SPEAKER_00: Maybe some of them are moderate, maybe they have really healthy moments.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I do think if you just need Jesus and Mike will be better.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: If they all had Jesus and the gospel message, how would we have integrated to their full best selves and not be wearing the mask anymore of their 80 grain of time?
9:47
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
9:48
SPEAKER_00: All would be good.
9:50
SPEAKER_00: So take this all with a grain of salt, with a little bit of humor, and really just I'm just grateful to have you all join in this conversation as we share the anticipation of a really great movie coming out September 20th, Down Abbey.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Is there an official name?
10:05
SPEAKER_00: I haven't even paid attention.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: It's just Down Abbey.
10:08
SPEAKER_00: I haven't, right?
10:09
SPEAKER_00: I yeah, okay.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: I haven't seen, I've only just seen the official trailer.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't remember seeing an actual movie.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, hopefully this will just wet people's appetites.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: To either start binge watching all season, which is on Amazon Prime for free.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: It is just so you know.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: Not your started at all.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: Re-rewatching them.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: Oh, me too, me too.
10:29
SPEAKER_00: You and me both.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we're gonna start from Aneagram 8 and we're gonna work our way through clockwise because that's how we do it.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: And Aneagram 8s, well, let's just say we love you, and there happens to be a lot of Anneagram 8s to talk about in Down Abbey, interestingly enough.
10:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, and to preface two, in order to try to keep this relatively digestible, we're gonna highlight three characters that we think are in each Aneagram type.
10:55
SPEAKER_00: Ana Lise has permission to disagree because she hasn't seen this final list at all.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: I will try.
11:02
SPEAKER_00: She is the dependent type too.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: So she may not totally or she might very nicely and sweetly disagree with me.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: Um too.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
11:13
SPEAKER_00: But um, we'll probably maybe give a quick highlight to as to one of the characters or two, a scene or something that makes us think this.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: Then just have fun with it and talk, share with your friends and have fun talking about it, or tell us why you don't agree with us on the socials, and we'll be I mean, we're open to suggestions, so no offense here.
11:31
SPEAKER_00: It's just all fun.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
11:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so Anneogram eight.
11:36
SPEAKER_00: I've got my top three here.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: What do you think they're gonna be?
11:39
SPEAKER_00: Just kind of curious.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: I think they're gonna be the Dowager Countess, um, uh Lady Violet, who's the grandmother.
11:46
SPEAKER_00: Yes, right?
11:47
SPEAKER_00: Ding ding ding.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: Yep, yep.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, Mary.
11:51
SPEAKER_00: Yes, the eldest of the three daughters, Lady Mary.
11:54
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: And then potentially, and I kind of vacillated on this one, but I think Tom, who married Lady Sybil, who was originally started off as the chauffeur.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
12:06
SPEAKER_00: Uh well, you got, hey, right on all three of them.
12:11
SPEAKER_00: Yay! Yeah, can we just say we love Lady Violet?
12:16
SPEAKER_00: She's she just she's probably right, I think the best character.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: I mean, the most quotable, if nothing else.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh, one of the quotes that I thought of was I just listened the other day was why does every day involve a fight with an American?
12:33
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: But like she took such great delight in saying it.
12:35
SPEAKER_00: Like it wins her joy.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
12:37
SPEAKER_00: It's just like, yes.
12:39
SPEAKER_00: I I will fight you and I will win.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: And then I think um Mary and Tom to contrast them, again, Tom the chauffeur, who ends up marrying Lady Sybil, and then Lady Mary, who's I think she's in every single show, every single episode.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, talk about I think this is where Lady Mary shows a really immature version, an unhealthy version of a type eight, who is incredibly assertive and challenging, not only of the tradition of her day, her family system, but then you see kind of the unhealthy piece play into, especially towards Edith, her sister, who we'll talk about more later.
13:23
SPEAKER_00: So there's some sad things, and then you also see her sabotage her own happiness repeatedly.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you're like, no, it's like a slow moan, no, yes, yes, um, and you come to grow, I mean, you you you always love her, but there's times that you get super frustrated.
13:40
SPEAKER_00: Then whereas Tom, who he has his immature foolish moments at the very beginning in season one, really before or as he's winning Sybil's heart, but you you love him, like grief and tragedy and loss shapes his character in a way that leads him to a ton of maturity, and especially throughout season six, you like that's the right last season, right?
14:04
SPEAKER_00: Season six, yeah, where he's constantly challenging Lady Mary in a way that you're like, Yes, keep on, Tom, you tell her, and yeah, he doesn't back down.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: And he used to use his like challenger, you know, towards the system and everything, but then you see him use it in a way that's helpful to others, which I think is interesting.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, because such huge growth, because he was kind of against this idea of aristocrat aristocrat oh I almost said aristocrats, aristocrats, like the upper class totally wrong movie of the system of the politics and you know, equal rights and and everything with that, but then that maturity and channeling that of recognizing that loyalty that um AIDS are so amazingly loyal.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: I know they're not the loyalist, but they are passionate.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: And when they love someone, they love someone and they really love their whole person.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: And I think that is an amazing quality of them.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, they're fiery and passionate people, and they are gonna take a stand, which is important.
15:05
SPEAKER_00: And he's the perfect one to take his sister-in-law on to kind of get her into health and focus on that.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: I think Mary's healthiest season was technically season two during World War I.
15:17
SPEAKER_00: I think you're right.
15:18
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
15:19
SPEAKER_00: Where she's recognizing the error of her ways from season one and the influence and consequences that end up causing the strife and heartache that she's facing, but then the maturity of just the era and of course being in war.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: But I think um season two, season three were probably some of her healthiest.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: Right.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: She kind of figured out what mattered most and what to fight about, where to put her energy.
15:45
SPEAKER_00: She and Edith, I don't know if they ever have really full labor.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: Reconciliation, yeah.
15:50
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: We'll see what happens with the movie.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean too.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: I'm dying to know.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: I all sorts of rumors, which we won't propagate.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: We'll just we're just gonna go watch and enjoy.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:59
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
16:00
SPEAKER_00: I do one of the one of the quotes real quickly on Mary was um I she she said, I'd never marry any man I was told to um, I would hate to admit that I'm stubborn, but I am.
16:10
SPEAKER_00: So it just like shows that, like, yeah, you know, I hate to admit that I'm stubborn, but I am, and I'm not gonna do what other people tell me to do.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: That is a perfect quote for her.
16:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh, we're gonna definitely highlight some of these quotes in the people on Instagram this week.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: Oh following up.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we're gonna like share some of those and kind of so it kind of shows us why.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: I feel like we should be getting some kickback from series to like promote it.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: Hello.
16:40
SPEAKER_00: Go see you.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: Get your tickets.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
16:42
SPEAKER_00: This is all just from the goodness of our hearts.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: So true.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: And just a passion excitement for the movie.
16:48
SPEAKER_00: It is okay.
16:49
SPEAKER_00: So now we're gonna talk about our Enneagream nines.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: Oh man, I I actually had a ton of fun with this because I didn't go into making my list thinking who was gonna be on it.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: I but as I was making it, I was like, oh my gosh, these, yes, I think these are exactly who these nines are.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: So I'm kind of curious to to find out if you have any idea.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: Again, I mean my top one.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, my top one.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm curious what you say, but for sure, Anna.
17:16
SPEAKER_00: Hands down, yep.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: Anna.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Which I th I'm kind of thinking she has a wing eight because she can be charge.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Anna.
17:28
SPEAKER_00: Who who else did you put?
17:29
SPEAKER_00: I put Matthew Crawley.
17:32
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, right?
17:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh, duh, me.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: Yes, hands down now.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: Who we're all still madly in love with, and I don't know if any of us have gotten over the fact that he is no longer a part of it.
17:46
SPEAKER_00: I mean, he and Anna, some of the best nines on the show, hands down.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they they brought the peace to the rooms, the the sanity to the situations for sure.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: And he also just had this way of curing himself that um, and I mean, I'm so biased because I'm married to a nine, but you're allowed to be that.
18:13
SPEAKER_00: But he wasn't gonna go along with the system and not in a way that was outwardly defiant, but just was like, I I can get what I need from myself and my and this is where the withdrawing type really displays itself.
18:27
SPEAKER_00: But he didn't need anybody else to affirm him or to show him where his place was in the world.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: He just wanted to bring his presence where he thought it was mattered, which why it was difficult to find why does it matter here in this estate and with these people and all those sort of stuff.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: He was comfortable in the position that he had, but anyway, that he just he he brought you know Lady Mary down.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: We all saw, I think, a lot of her growth and transition and transformation happen because of her relationship with Matthew, which is why we're all still grieving because yeah, I mean, thankfully Thomas stepped in, but still.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: Still, still aggravating.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: I remember yelling at the TV.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I did TV, and I was like, You can't do that.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Terrible.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: It was so terrible.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: Oh I mean, Dan Stevens has to be just an amazing actor and has to have like other amazing, fantastic opportunities.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: So whatever.
19:22
SPEAKER_00: I know, whatever.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: You can have them.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
19:24
SPEAKER_00: We'll take our first few seasons and watch them over and over again.
19:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay, the last one is newer, but um, but I think it was worth miss mentioning because she plays a larger role near the end and is for sure in the movie, and that is Phyllis Baxter, who is Cora's maid.
19:41
SPEAKER_00: And she's also befriending Mosley through the last season.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
19:47
SPEAKER_00: Oh I think even just that sense of, I mean, nine's at their best.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: They're receptive, they're diplomatic, they're open-minded, they're very, they're just pleasant.
19:57
SPEAKER_00: Bring that essence with them to any kind of again, at their best, any situation.
20:04
SPEAKER_00: But they also they can be the stubborn, they can be forgetful, they can be kind of apathetic, yeah, um, a little bit.
20:10
SPEAKER_00: And I think you can definitely see that within just her person.
20:15
SPEAKER_00: She's probably one of the healthiest of the nines of the three, yeah.
20:19
SPEAKER_00: Just the way she relates to um as uh oh let's see, Mosley, like you said, and like bringing him out and drawing him out.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
20:28
SPEAKER_00: Um almost empowering him in a really tender way that I think is a really sweet, which is fun.
20:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad they kept Mosley in it for a while.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: It seemed like he wasn't he was a character that was going nowhere.
20:39
SPEAKER_00: And um, but um actually that takes us to type one.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: So yes, so I kind of you know let the cat out of the bag here.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: So one of the type ones that I had said was Mosley, and one of the quotes from that last season as well was when he is about to go teach.
20:59
SPEAKER_00: And his quote was, if you expect a lot, you'll get a lot.
21:03
SPEAKER_00: And I just thought that was kind of a a classic caricature of a type one of you know, hey, if you expect a lot, you're gonna get a lot, which unfortunately isn't always true.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: It was not his experience, right?
21:16
SPEAKER_00: Which is why you need Phyllis Baxter.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: Yes, he does.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: He so does.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: I feel like there's there's a lot of ones on the show.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: And and maybe, and I was kind of weighing it through as I've been kind of re-watching the series of it's of course time and era and culture play into it.
21:36
SPEAKER_00: Of um, you have the different levels and stations of people in the the upper class, middle class, downstairs, downstairs.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: And um I wonder how much that influences it too.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, how much is it you know, innate, or how much is it due to their station in life and the need?
21:57
SPEAKER_00: Because to me, Mrs.
21:58
SPEAKER_00: Hughes.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: Oh yes.
22:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
22:02
SPEAKER_00: I I'll I'll have to tell her tell you where I put her later.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: I didn't put her in in type one, but I really struggled with her the more because I I marked her for later too, because I was like, I could see her as a perfectionist in just her sense of justice and duty and her expectations of sometimes she might not agree, but because she's kind of signed on on the dotted line for this, I could see her being that perfectionist.
22:28
SPEAKER_00: And and maybe you can you might argue this with me as Lord Grantham, the dad.
22:34
SPEAKER_00: Actually, no, I put him as a type one.
22:36
SPEAKER_00: I went back, he and Mrs.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: Hughes were my hardest ones when you look over his character, but I would put him as a one-wing nine.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: Nine, yes.
22:46
SPEAKER_00: Because he did not prefer to act on the justice or act on his even ideas of pert perfection or idealism.
22:55
SPEAKER_00: But he certainly had them.
22:56
SPEAKER_00: And he held he held himself to that standard.
22:59
SPEAKER_00: But one of the times too, you see him hold it to John Bates.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: Back, I think that was season one, maybe season two, but when um John Bates is struggling but won't, you know, and is actually protecting someone but won't tell him.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, Lord Robert is fiery mad and goes ahead and doesn't take the peaceful side of things or defend him.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: He goes ahead and fires him and of course regrets it later.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: But I think those were one of those times that that made me think, oh yeah, he's normally he's a one a one-wing nine.
23:32
SPEAKER_00: Um, but that was the time that he went ahead and like full on one and one demanded perfection without waiting to hear the explanation or believing the best.
23:40
SPEAKER_00: And also, even just the tradition, like he has standards, he has this huge estate that it's not just like a name, but he believes in almost like the calling of it and the purpose of it, and battling with having the the change of times as the seasons progress and having to change with it and the reality of the financial situation, but also you know, needing to take care of also your employees and the rightness of that and making not just your family, but several families' livelihoods, which was a huge deal.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so the last one, and again, this one I really debated too.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: This actually was my top three hardest one, and that is Mr.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: Carson.
24:19
SPEAKER_00: Yes, I because I put I put Carson down too, but I also thought of him as another.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: I was thinking of a five.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: Me too.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: That's what I was going back and forth on the one and the five.
24:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: So what I can see him being really, I don't know, because he's very studious and he I feel like he's more in his head than necessarily in his gut.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: And so that's where I could see the motivation of his character going more in the head than leaning towards uh more of a guttural instinct.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: Um, because I feel like he could wing six because he's so loyal, especially to Lady Mary.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: Incredibly loyal.
24:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: So, so loyal to the family.
24:58
SPEAKER_00: Um, and wanting to do things by the book and has very low tolerance for shenanigans.
25:06
SPEAKER_00: So, so low tolerance.
25:08
SPEAKER_00: And that's why I went back and forth between the one and the five, because he's got this standard which might in fact more mirror his upstairs leader, right?
25:18
SPEAKER_00: Like where he would have to somehow adapt to those one qualities because that was the demand of the household and the estate that he had to follow through on any level, essentially, and in his own character.
25:32
SPEAKER_00: But you I I totally agree with you.
25:34
SPEAKER_00: I really was torn between the one and five.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: So this is one that I'll be excited to hear from others.
25:38
SPEAKER_00: Like, what do you think?
25:39
SPEAKER_00: Is he a one or five?
25:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I lean more towards the five.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: That's my vote.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's great.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
25:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, then for the record, who else would you throw on the ones?
25:47
SPEAKER_00: I'm kind of curious.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: Who you had.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
25:50
SPEAKER_00: I yeah, I don't think those are like kind of my top, my top two were Mrs.
25:54
SPEAKER_00: Hughes.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious to hear what your thoughts are and where she falls.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, perfect.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: And then like what grant them.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: So there you go.
26:01
SPEAKER_00: Well, type two, I went ahead and landed Mrs.
26:04
SPEAKER_00: Hughes as a type two.
26:06
SPEAKER_00: Of course, Lady Sybil, our all-time favorite.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: And again, why do tragedy?
26:12
SPEAKER_00: Why does it have to befall the twos?
26:14
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
26:15
SPEAKER_00: I do not know.
26:16
SPEAKER_00: And at first, when I I thought through it, because I was like, well, maybe she's a three, she can be, she can like pace her own, but then as it's like, more and more I thought.
26:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she is.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: I one of the quotes, even of her, it's it's doing nothing, that's the enemy.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: Yes, exactly.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: That is totally the one that I was thinking of.
26:35
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: And I think season two in particular, where she finds her identity and this purpose and serving others and helping others, and how she was born to play that part, as far as you know, her family, her parents even see that.
26:50
SPEAKER_00: Like she was made to do this nursing, even though they fought against her doing it.
26:55
SPEAKER_00: And I even think about that goodbye, the tearful goodbye, when everyone's sending her off to school for training for nursing.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: And I think it's the the moment when her mom is watching her in the kitchen and watching her learn how to cook and do that for herself.
27:10
SPEAKER_00: And you know, just some moments like that that I'm like, oh yeah, she's totally a two and everyone sees it.
27:15
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
27:16
SPEAKER_00: Well, and she even like I was thinking about how she makes she makes it a way for one of the maids to get a job as a secretary.
27:23
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
27:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and she does she totally pens the rules.
27:26
SPEAKER_00: She totally bends the rules to make it happen.
27:29
SPEAKER_00: Yep, yeah, the sweet Gwen.
27:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh, it's that's such a fun.
27:33
SPEAKER_00: Um, that was fun, a really fun little story in there.
27:36
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so Mrs.
27:38
SPEAKER_00: Hughes, Sybil, and then Isabel Crawley.
27:41
SPEAKER_00: Crawley, oh my goodness, and we talk about that one.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: And what she gets herself into so much trouble.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: Can I she does because she does help too much?
27:52
SPEAKER_00: She has no boundaries.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: She needs to mature in this, but she all the more because it she and um Lady Violet, yeah, the grandmother.
28:02
SPEAKER_00: Go ahead.
28:03
SPEAKER_00: Um, they they can go head to head in in stress.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: Um, twos go to eights.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: And um, I think you can have a lot of clashing, but then in health can totally access the two.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: So there's those little glimpses at times when both of them do get on because they're able to really cross those paths for them understanding.
28:26
SPEAKER_00: Fight for the same thing, right?
28:27
SPEAKER_00: At the end, they're fighting for both Matthew and Mary to get together.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: Like they're on the same page with that.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: And and it's just like a sweet moment where those lines intersect, and you're like, it can work.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: Like, finally, finally.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: But then um, definitely their little um stats and stuff with the hospital and through the world.
28:47
SPEAKER_00: All of that the houses, the estates, the workers.
28:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh, so many things.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: Between like all the characters, they those two probably have some of the best one-liners.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: They do, or just little quips that the authors, the writers of the show have must have just their favorite because they truly give them some of the greatest lines.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: And it's probably also the skill of the actresses because it just yeah, it just is the spiritual like mag delivery.
29:13
SPEAKER_00: You just can't so dry.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: She's so great.
29:16
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I would say I would agree, hands down.
29:19
SPEAKER_00: Those are I could see Mrs.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: Hughes.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: Now, what really tipped you off for Mrs.
29:23
SPEAKER_00: Hughes?
29:24
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
29:25
SPEAKER_00: Well, I've gone back and forth and circled around her a few times, but part of it was her consistency, and that's why I even toyed with the six.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: I've I've I felt for sure she was a dependent type.
29:37
SPEAKER_00: So I put her either as a one, a two, or six.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: It's in the dependent stance.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: Um, because she played this steady undercurrent of so many characters, so many of the storylines, but she's helping.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I don't think I wrote her name down because she's one I didn't have time for, but remember the one maid who ends up getting pregnant.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: So she really goes to bat for her to help her get the grandparents involved with the baby and support and all that.
30:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, just that's one of the many things where again it would take a two being more assertive and tapping into the growth line of the eight to not only want to help, but to force something to happen in it.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, for sure, I put her in the dependence dance, which again, the one, two, the six was all I was, you know, yeah kind of leaning on there.
30:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, but she just is the steady helper, and even even that her role with Mr.
30:27
SPEAKER_00: Carson, um, again, whether he's a one or a five, I didn't feel like they were the same types for sure.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: But their character, she really came in and supported him and made him a better version of himself.
30:39
SPEAKER_00: And that's true, and also was a bolder version of the two, um, or a bolder uh character in how she would really handle him for lack of a better term.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: She does seem more in um to connect more with her heart, potentially.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: I could see that.
30:55
SPEAKER_00: So having that then at the in the heart triad, then that two would choose to support that.
31:01
SPEAKER_00: She even chose her role in the first season, her role over romance.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: Remember how like this long-lost love pursued her for a little bit and she toyed with that idea, but in the end, she chooses to stay on.
31:12
SPEAKER_00: And of course, she has her own happy ending later on.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: But it took yes like five seasons.
31:18
SPEAKER_00: So like another like five more years.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like seven more years.
31:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: I know, right?
31:26
SPEAKER_00: I'm grinning ear to ear listening to this again.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: It's such good stuff.
31:31
SPEAKER_00: It's almost like reliving every best part of each season.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: Now, I promise the next episode we will dive right into the characters we think lead as Enneagram type three and make our way to the sevens.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: I know you're as anxious as me to continue this conversation.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: But in the meantime, it would mean the world to me to have all your friends and family who share your love of Down Abbey or the Enneagram.
31:55
SPEAKER_00: We'll also continue this conversation on the socials, so you'll have to chime in with your thoughts and our typing of your beloved characters.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: And while you're at it, leave a five-star rating on iTunes or your favorite podcast app so others know they are welcome here and what to expect in our conversation.
32:13
SPEAKER_00: So, until next time, let's invite others to join us as we pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for us simply the whole heart of life.