Latest / Your Mic / The Email That Cost Him His Job (And What It Can Teach Podcasters About Trust)

Transcript

The Email That Cost Him His Job (And What It Can Teach Podcasters About Trust) · Your Mic

• 0:00
  Gen X, Gen Z, they tend to have a different kind of idea.
• 0:04
  They think that we have worked too hard.
• 0:06
  They want to spend money on themselves, on the children.
• 0:09
  I have to admit to you that they are very smart.
• 0:11
  They need to build their characters on top of being smart.
• 0:15
  Retiring is a very personal decision.
• 0:18
  I've been in my own business for 26 years, and I build my clients' assets.
• 0:24
  So that is why I enjoy what I'm doing.
• 0:27
  If you work, you keep on working, your body will become better.
• 0:30
  Your mind will become better.
• 0:32
  Because once you completely retire, your whole living process slows down.
• 0:38
  That is why I believe in working out in the gym for many good reasons.
• 0:43
  Once I start understanding the elements of relaxing my own philosophies,
• 0:49
  money starts coming in.
• 0:50
  It makes better decisions.
• 0:52
  And the open mind keeps you going.
• 0:54
  and it will reward you spiritually or financially.
• 0:57
  Keep a balance of mindset, your life, your financial arrangement.
• 1:02
  You will be fine.
• 1:03
  Mr. Wu, what do most people get wrong about planning for the future?
• 1:11
  I think the baby boomers are doing it all right.
• 1:17
  We save through 401k, individual IRA accounts,
• 1:23
  CD in the bank
• 1:24
  things like that
• 1:25
  so we have been doing quite well
• 1:28
  and we are the generation
• 1:30
  having the biggest asset
• 1:32
  size
• 1:33
  right now in the United States
• 1:36
  but the Gen X, Gen Z
• 1:39
  they tend to have
• 1:40
  a different kind of idea
• 1:42
  they think that we have
• 1:44
  worked too hard
• 1:45
  the baby boomers in the past
• 1:48
  and so now they want me
• 1:50
  they want to spend money
• 1:52
  on themselves, on the children,
• 1:55
  and perhaps sometimes overlooking the saving element
• 1:59
  for themselves in the future.
• 2:01
  But also, I have to admit to you that they are very smart.
• 2:06
  Okay, the thing is, they need to build their characters
• 2:11
  on top of being smart.
• 2:14
  So they always should save up some money through the 401k,
• 2:19
  especially through the company program.
• 2:22
  They're matching a dollar for dollar up to 3% to 6%.
• 2:27
  And then spend accordingly, save up some rainy day fund on the side.
• 2:34
  And they can enjoy life as much as they want to.
• 2:39
  But they do need to make some sacrifice in terms of saving up for the future, spending accordingly.
• 2:48
  And when you talk about 3% to 6% of a paycheck, it seems like it's not really that much if you were to break it down dollar for dollar.
• 2:58
  Three to six cents of every dollar seems to be chump change.
• 3:04
  Yes, Mr. Cruz, but the point is what I'm saying is the matching part from the employer.
• 3:12
  if you put in 6%
• 3:14
  and they match 6%
• 3:16
  you're talking about you're saving 12%
• 3:19
  of your paycheck
• 3:21
  on an annual basis
• 3:23
  it adds up
• 3:25
  and also with the market growing
• 3:30
  the reward will be quite handsome
• 3:32
  at the end of the day
• 3:35
  I would assume that
• 3:36
  most people have a 40 years life
• 3:40
  a span of working and accumulating.
• 3:43
  And this stage is usually called accumulation stage,
• 3:48
  that they accumulate the wealth to prepare for retirement.
• 3:54
  But in my philosophy, I always advocate the balance of life.
• 3:59
  Yes, not working crazy like the baby boomer,
• 4:04
  but yet you do need to save some money.
• 4:09
  Okay, and I want to go back to working because that's something that you and I had a great conversation about before recording.
• 4:16
  But I did want to ask you something before we do that.
• 4:21
  That is in regards to a good chunk of the people that listen to the show are entrepreneurs, so maybe they're not traditionally employed.
• 4:30
  and so what would be your advice for someone who is a business owner,
• 4:35
  is a solopreneur, doesn't necessarily have a 401k to contribute to
• 4:39
  and so what would be just like a 10,000 square foot
• 4:43
  and I understand this is not official investment advice
• 4:45
  but what would you say to somebody who let's say,
• 4:50
  let's talk about me.
• 4:52
  Let's say I got a thousand bucks
• 4:54
  and I've invested in myself, you know, courses, workshops, whatnot,
• 5:01
  I want to get back into the game of saving.
• 5:04
  I don't have a 401k.
• 5:07
  What would you recommend?
• 5:09
  It's a very good question.
• 5:11
  I am an individual entrepreneur too.
• 5:14
  I own my own business, myself and my assistants.
• 5:19
  but I do have a retirement plan called 401k solo.
• 5:26
  Oh, so there is that?
• 5:27
  Yes.
• 5:27
  Gotcha.
• 5:28
  Yes, there's that.
• 5:30
  There's a lot of different programs for entrepreneurs to engage.
• 5:34
  Okay.
• 5:35
  And I can save up to $58,000 a year,
• 5:39
  and that allowance increase as it's being COLA adjusted.
• 5:44
  COLA adjust means they're adjusting the amount you can contribute into it.
• 5:49
  based on the inflation index.
• 5:52
  So if you can keep doing that, you will be fine.
• 5:58
  And also, it is actually not a bad thing to save money
• 6:03
  outside of any retirement plan.
• 6:06
  As long as you know how to manage it,
• 6:09
  as long as you stay in the market to obtain long-term capital gain,
• 6:15
  the tax burden should not be that bad at all.
• 6:19
  and it is maxed at 15%.
• 6:23
  And so it's okay to pay Uncle Sam.
• 6:25
  That's always my philosophies.
• 6:28
  And if you can grow it outside of the retirement plan,
• 6:33
  and that actually more power to you.
• 6:36
  It's more flexible.
• 6:38
  You can do, when you need the money,
• 6:40
  you will have money to use for your business or for whatever.
• 6:45
  But a healthy portion of your saving should be also invested in the retirement side.
• 6:52
  And there are different programs, different platforms for you to accomplish that.
• 6:58
  And 401k solo is a very good program and a sizable amount of saving every year.
• 7:06
  But you need to do it consistently.
• 7:10
  because you're a business person.
• 7:12
  One year you may lack of cash to contribute.
• 7:16
  So you do it on a monthly basis,
• 7:19
  put it into that program right underneath the allowable amount.
• 7:24
  You will be fine after a number of years.
• 7:26
  Kind of piggybacking on that, kind of, sort of, but not really.
• 7:31
  You talk about the prime working ages of 25 to 65.
• 7:38
  and when we had spoken before,
• 7:42
  you talk about loving what you do so much
• 7:45
  that you're in it for another 10 to 11 years.
• 7:50
  And so I find that to be one of the most interesting things
• 7:53
  that I've heard someone say
• 7:54
  because typically we think of retirement,
• 7:57
  peace out, I'm done working at 65
• 7:59
  and those weirdos in Europe are like,
• 8:02
  oh, I'm retiring at 60,
• 8:04
  but there's so much more life to be lived.
• 8:06
  And so can you build on the fact that you love doing what you do as a financial expert, advisor, individual advisor?
• 8:19
  Can you just talk a little bit more about doing what you love?
• 8:26
  Retiring is a very personal decision.
• 8:31
  Some people think that they have worked hard all their life.
• 8:36
  and being working in a corporation is not easy.
• 8:39
  No, it's not.
• 8:40
  You have to face all kind of political issues,
• 8:46
  diplomacy issues, a bad boss, bad company.
• 8:52
  And so a lot of frustration was created during your career.
• 8:58
  But to me, I've been in my own business for 26 years
• 9:04
  and I build my client's asset and I start my own hedge fund.
• 9:09
  So that is why I enjoy what I'm doing.
• 9:13
  And a lot of families depend on my operation every day.
• 9:17
  They simply don't want to look at the portfolio.
• 9:20
  They don't want to be slowed down by managing their own portfolio.
• 9:27
  And the most important thing is they want to be away from the portfolio,
• 9:32
  less emotional attachment
• 9:34
  so they pay me to do that
• 9:36
  and I enjoy
• 9:38
  taking up the responsibilities
• 9:40
  because
• 9:42
  of my past
• 9:44
  that I know
• 9:46
  what some financial
• 9:48
  bad character can harm
• 9:50
  the investor
• 9:52
  to some degree
• 9:53
  so to me it's a personal choice
• 9:55
  I love what I'm doing
• 9:56
  I have five grandchildren
• 9:59
  and I spend time with them
• 10:01
  I wish every day I have 36 hours to do different things.
• 10:06
  Yeah, so, and also I think this is my personal belief.
• 10:13
  If you work, you keep on working,
• 10:16
  your body will become better.
• 10:18
  Your mind will become better.
• 10:21
  Because once you completely retire,
• 10:24
  especially from a corporate world,
• 10:28
  your whole living process
• 10:31
  slowed down tremendously.
• 10:34
  And that is why I believe
• 10:37
  in working out in the gym,
• 10:39
  Zumba class.
• 10:43
  I believe in exercising my brain
• 10:46
  for many good reasons.
• 10:50
  I believe in helping my clients
• 10:52
  that usually have been with me
• 10:54
  for over 20 years.
• 10:56
  and I provide them the result that they desire.
• 11:02
  And also, another important element is,
• 11:07
  because the market is a big human being,
• 11:10
  the behavior is repetitive.
• 11:13
  And being in the business longer
• 11:15
  actually makes me see better.
• 11:19
  I'm learning every day.
• 11:21
  If I stop learning, that's the day I need to,
• 11:25
  exit the business.
• 11:28
  I've been in business for more than 25 years.
• 11:31
  How long did it take for you to come to this personal philosophy
• 11:35
  of consistently learning on a daily basis
• 11:40
  of, you know, I'm in this for the long haul for my clients
• 11:44
  and it seems like it's just a big fun game,
• 11:48
  like a big puzzle piece
• 11:50
  that you're solving on a daily basis as a business owner.
• 11:56
  I would say it's about 15 years ago, 2010, when I migrated from a company employee financial advisor into an independent financial advisor.
• 12:10
  While I am now a RIA, I own my own company independently.
• 12:16
  I'm under no other company's control.
• 12:19
  I take care of my client the way that I want to
• 12:24
  within the boundary of ethical, being ethical.
• 12:29
  So also, 15 years before, 15 years ago,
• 12:37
  I am always very tight in terms of my thinking range.
• 12:44
  I was tight on money 15 years ago, like everybody else.
• 12:50
  But 15 years ago, 2010, that's about five years after I settled all the litigation against Enron and UBS,
• 13:01
  I come to the realization one day that I need to loosen up.
• 13:09
  Once I start understanding the elements of relaxing my own philosophies,
• 13:18
  I can tell you honestly, Mr. Cruz, money start coming in.
• 13:25
  It make you make better decisions.
• 13:32
  And the open mind keep you going.
• 13:37
  And it will reward you spiritually or financially.
• 13:41
  And I can assure you that if any young people watching me today,
• 13:46
  I can assure you that if you keep a balance of mindset, your life, your financial arrangement, you will be fine.
• 13:57
  You will do the right thing.
• 13:59
  And reward will start coming in.
• 14:01
  An open mind keeps you going.
• 14:03
  I love that.
• 14:06
  I love that.
• 14:07
  You have to.
• 14:07
  You have no other choices.
• 14:10
  You have to.
• 14:11
  You have to enjoy life, being a human being.
• 14:13
  Yeah.
• 14:15
  But you also need to be responsible to save up for yourself especially
• 14:21
  and then perhaps leave some legacy to your children.
• 14:25
  But that is very minor.
• 14:26
  You need to take care of yourself, your spouse.
• 14:30
  You need to help the others while you gainfully employ or after retirement.
• 14:39
  I think there's a simple purpose of being a human being.
• 14:43
  and it can easily be done
• 14:46
  as long as you're doing it systematically and consistently.
• 14:50
  You mentioned Enron
• 14:53
  and I've learned about who you are
• 14:59
  and what you did in the name of your clients
• 15:02
  and protecting them
• 15:04
  and doing the right thing by your clients
• 15:08
  and there was blowback
• 15:12
  to put it mildly.
• 15:14
  So let's talk about that
• 15:16
  because, you know, again,
• 15:18
  people listening to this show
• 15:20
  are servicing clients.
• 15:22
  And sure, they're not in the financial space.
• 15:26
  I think there's also a lesson to be learned
• 15:28
  that you always do right by your clients
• 15:31
  even when it's not popular.
• 15:36
  That's a long story back,
• 15:39
  but I try to make it brief.
• 15:43
  After I finished my restaurateur career in 1999, December, Christmas Day,
• 15:51
  I sold my last restaurant and I become a financial advisor.
• 15:57
  My educational background was finance undergrad accounting in my master's degree, MBA.
• 16:06
  And so I started my training at UPS, and at that time I joined a group that we specialized in taking care of Enron employees, NQSO.
• 16:21
  NQSO stands for Non-Qualified Stock Option Exercise.
• 16:26
  That is how we established the relationship with Enron employees slash investors with us.
• 16:34
  and from there we manage the portfolio accordingly.
• 16:39
  So in 2021, August on the 21st,
• 16:49
  I sent out my usual email to 73 of my clients
• 16:53
  telling them that after I reviewed the 10Q report,
• 16:59
  the document they filed with the SEC,
• 17:03
  I feel like that it's getting more serious in terms of the problem with Enron.
• 17:09
  So I asked them to take some money off the table.
• 17:13
  I worked to midnight, past midnight, a little bit past that,
• 17:17
  and I sent out the email around 12.10 in the morning on August 21st morning.
• 17:26
  And so after that, I went home.
• 17:29
  but in the email I basically told my client
• 17:33
  that you need to take some money off the table.
• 17:36
  Number one, it's because of your over-concentration.
• 17:39
  Number two, the number doesn't look good at that time.
• 17:43
  So then I come back to the office around 8 o'clock the same day.
• 17:50
  By 10 o'clock I got a call from my branch manager
• 17:55
  telling me to go down there to his office.
• 17:58
  he said
• 17:59
  Chong
• 18:00
  what have you done
• 18:02
  why you send
• 18:02
  an email like this
• 18:04
  you're
• 18:05
  biting the hand
• 18:06
  that feed us
• 18:08
  so he
• 18:09
  took a look
• 18:10
  of the email
• 18:11
  he said
• 18:12
  yes
• 18:13
  yes
• 18:14
  yes
• 18:15
  after three yeses
• 18:17
  and he told me
• 18:19
  but Chong
• 18:20
  you cannot do that
• 18:22
  our firm
• 18:22
  has a strong
• 18:23
  buy recommendation
• 18:24
  and Enron
• 18:26
  you cannot do this to Emron
• 18:29
  that give us income every month.
• 18:33
  I said I'm sorry I have to tell them the truth
• 18:35
  but I thought this has gone through compliance scrutiny
• 18:39
  before the email was released into the channel.
• 18:48
  And then at the end of the conversation
• 18:49
  he said you're fired.
• 18:51
  Go to the assistant manager
• 18:53
  he's going to arrange everything.
• 18:55
  So I was fired on the same day around 2 o'clock, August 21st, 2021.
• 19:02
  And come to find out later that UBS was instructed by Enron executive,
• 19:09
  the financial advice, financial CFO, Andrew Fustow to find me,
• 19:16
  to terminate me because my negative tone in my email.
• 19:21
  So fine.
• 19:23
  So I ended up being terminated on the same day.
• 19:26
  Five days later, I was hired by another firm in Houston.
• 19:32
  So come next year, 2002,
• 19:36
  Associates Press called me up out of the blue.
• 19:39
  They said, Mr. Wu, we're going to release your story.
• 19:44
  Do you have any comment or additional information you want to share with us?
• 19:52
  I was still in the business, so I said,
• 19:54
  no, I cannot make any additional comment.
• 19:57
  So the story broke in February 2002,
• 20:03
  and the rest is history.
• 20:07
  But I sent out the email on August 21, 2001,
• 20:14
  and Emron filed bankruptcy in December.
• 20:19
  on December 2, 2001.
• 20:22
  It's only a few months after my email.
• 20:26
  So I don't think I'm off on the left field.
• 20:32
  I think my suggestion and my advice is honest, transparent.
• 20:41
  That is something I always hold in my heart,
• 20:44
  be transparent and serve your client.
• 20:48
  with your utmost best abilities,
• 20:51
  not based on the corporate directive
• 20:55
  or some unknown factor in the system
• 21:00
  that stopped me from doing that.
• 21:02
  So, and it still holds true today.
• 21:07
  Transparency, take care of your client,
• 21:10
  take a bullet for them if I need to.
• 21:12
  But now, since I own my own firm,
• 21:14
  I don't have to take the bullet anymore.
• 21:16
  one okay so that is pretty much the nutshell of what had happened in the past ready
• 21:27
  is there anything you would have done different no absolutely not and i know i and i understand
• 21:33
  that like there's the whole transparency thing is there anything i guess better better framed
• 21:39
  what what could have been done differently and maybe this is maybe this would have been
• 21:43
  And maybe this is a question for the people who used to employ you.
• 21:48
  Like, hey, what would you have done differently?
• 21:50
  Would you have heard Mr. Wu out?
• 21:53
  I was nobody.
• 21:56
  I doubt that, respectively.
• 21:58
  I, even in today's environment, I'm still nobody.
• 22:03
  But I believe in the system, the email system,
• 22:07
  that I have sent out this kind of email many times before August 21st.
• 22:14
  And there is a system in the UPS email platform that if the email is going out to more than two people, then it will route to the compliance department.
• 22:30
  They will review it, send it out, or come back to slap my hand.
• 22:36
  So I totally understand the system, and I was relying on that belief that, hey, if they don't feel comfortable on it, then they should come and scold me, reprimand me, or slap my hand.
• 22:54
  Don't do that anymore.
• 22:57
  But they sent it out.
• 22:59
  and during the litigation down the road,
• 23:04
  we found out that the compliance department
• 23:06
  released my email because they think it's okay.
• 23:11
  And this kind of email, like kind of email,
• 23:13
  has been sent out numerous times,
• 23:15
  but I have never used the language
• 23:18
  of taking some money off the table.
• 23:21
  But it's getting to a very serious stage,
• 23:24
  so I have to use a little bit stronger language.
• 23:29
  but if UBS
• 23:32
  decide to
• 23:33
  enslave themselves to Enron
• 23:36
  such a crooked corporation
• 23:38
  there is not much I can do
• 23:41
  yeah being a
• 23:41
  nobody being just a number
• 23:44
  an employee
• 23:45
  they can do whatever they want
• 23:48
  especially in Texas
• 23:49
  anybody
• 23:52
  can terminate me without
• 23:54
  a cause
• 23:54
  in Texas
• 23:58
  So I have no regrets of what I have done.
• 24:04
  And if you put me back in 2001, I would have done the same thing.
• 24:10
  I mean, losing a job is nothing compared to taking care of your client.
• 24:18
  I can always survive.
• 24:20
  I can always find another path to accomplish what I want,
• 24:26
  just like what I have done so far in 2025.
• 24:33
  I'm just glad there are emails back when this happened
• 24:36
  because I cannot imagine if this was something
• 24:40
  that was transpiring in the 60s before emails
• 24:45
  and what we call digital receipts, proof.
• 24:49
  it seems like it would have been a lot easier to throw you under the bus
• 24:55
  and make it look like nothing happened.
• 24:57
  You know what I mean?
• 25:00
  This is the hypocrisy of the financial system,
• 25:05
  the so-called White House, brokerage house.
• 25:09
  So any email go to more than two persons,
• 25:15
  it will consider as advertisement,
• 25:18
  and you need compliance approval on it.
• 25:22
  It's totally a CYA kind of arrangement.
• 25:26
  And on my termination paperwork, I was crowned with that violation.
• 25:33
  Say I sent out an authorized email to more than 73 clients,
• 25:40
  which I know they have a system, check and balance,
• 25:44
  that my compliance office at UBS at that time studied my email.
• 25:50
  They released the email.
• 25:53
  And what can I say?
• 25:56
  But anyway, it's all done, water under the bridge.
• 26:01
  I have no regret.
• 26:03
  I would do the same thing.
• 26:08
  But it has been very difficult, especially the year after my termination.
• 26:12
  Even my family do not understand why I do that, why I did that.
• 26:19
  But I think they slowly understand why I have to do that.
• 26:26
  And so I never doubt myself in that aspect.
• 26:35
  And I thank God this is a badge of honor that I can wear today.
• 26:40
  Oh, absolutely.
• 26:41
  What is your message for your five grandchildren?
• 26:45
  When they grow up and they're 30, 40,
• 26:49
  and hopefully by the time they're that age,
• 26:51
  they will have known what their grandfather did.
• 26:55
  You know, my incident is nothing major.
• 26:59
  It's just a personal decision that I make.
• 27:03
  I just want my grandchildren to be honest,
• 27:08
  upright, exercise the intelligence.
• 27:14
  Having wealth or not having wealth
• 27:18
  is not the major issue in their life.
• 27:22
  They need to balance things out,
• 27:25
  enjoy life, be financially responsible.
• 27:29
  But the key thing is do what they like, be productive.
• 27:35
  however life is so short freddie yes it is okay i mean if somebody you guys are watching today
• 27:43
  i tell i'm 71 years old and i come to the state in 1972 53 years already gone past in front of my
• 27:52
  eyes so make your day as productive as possible do the right thing and do the right thing a very
• 28:03
  simple concept.
• 28:04
  Everybody knows what is the right thing to do.
• 28:07
  I enjoy my life so far, and I have no
• 28:11
  regret, and I just wish my grandchildren can do the same thing.
• 28:17
  Don't submit themselves to dark
• 28:19
  forces, and be open, transparent, help the others, and enjoy what they do.
• 28:27
  It's just as simple as that.
• 28:30
  Mr. Wu it's been an honor to be able to chat with you both before this conversation and now
• 28:39
  and I really thank you for the opportunity to speak with you about
• 28:44
  business and all the things that you've experienced it's my pleasure at my age right now I want to
• 28:52
  share my experience as much as I can.
• 28:57
  And as I told you earlier, the market is a big
• 29:01
  human organism that we have the repeating behavior.
• 29:06
  You just have to understand it carefully,
• 29:11
  non-emotionally
• 29:13
  and diversify
• 29:17
  conservative at times
• 29:20
  and aggressive at different times
• 29:22
  but always use a diversified
• 29:26
  and balanced approach
• 29:28
  don't put all the eggs in one basket
• 29:31
  like my Enron clients before
• 29:34
  like the MCI employee before
• 29:39
  so
• 29:41
  as long as you understand the risk and
• 29:42
  reward side
• 29:44
  take a balanced approach you'll be fine
• 29:47
  and I do
• 29:48
  admire the younger generation they're so
• 29:50
  smart so fast
• 29:53
  and they have a lot of
• 29:54
  good things in their head
• 29:56
  that the baby boomer cannot
• 29:58
  emulate and so
• 30:01
  make good use of
• 30:02
  your intelligence
• 30:05
  do it in a human
• 30:06
  way and take care of yourself, take care of your family also in the human way.
• 30:12
  And that's all I can ask you to do.
• 30:15
  And I thank you for the invitation today, Mr. Cruz.
• 30:21
  Pleasure is all mine.
• 30:22
  And y'all, I will link up to Mr. Chung Woo's information in the show notes so you can reach
• 30:28
  out to him if you'd like to have a conversation about planning for the future.
• 30:33
  And sir, thank you.
• 30:35
  Thank you so much.
• 30:37
  Ready?
• 30:38
  Okay.
• 30:38
  Thank you for inviting me here today.