Latest / Mini Scroll / MINI TECH SCROLL: Meta antitrust trial, Google ad tech monopoly, the rise of virtual creators + 'Apple' dance TikToker sues Roblox

Transcript

MINI TECH SCROLL: Meta antitrust trial, Google ad tech monopoly, the rise of virtual creators + 'Apple' dance TikToker sues Roblox · Mini Scroll

• 0:00
  Hey everyone, and welcome to Mini Scroll, the daily Internet
• 0:03
  culture podcast bringing you the biggest stories from social
• 0:05
  media, the creator economy, and the digital space every Monday
• 0:09
  through Thursday. My name is Annabelle and I am
• 0:11
  your Wednesday Mini Scroll host and also the deputy editor of
• 0:14
  the youth digital media brand Centennial World.
• 0:17
  Welcome back to Mini Tech Scroll for another week.
• 0:20
  I hope you guys are having a good week so far.
• 0:23
  My full U page is still flooded with all the Coachella content,
• 0:27
  which is honestly my guilty pleasure because I fear going to
• 0:31
  Coachella is definitely on my bucket list.
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  So I'm hoping that will continue just for a little bit longer.
• 0:37
  Other than that, I don't have too much to say at the top of
• 0:40
  this week's episode except for I feel like you guys were so nice
• 0:43
  in the comments last week, so thank you, I really appreciated
• 0:47
  that. But yes, Please remember to
• 0:49
  rate, review, and subscribe to Infinite Scroll.
• 0:52
  We are getting so close to 10K subscribers on YouTube and we
• 0:56
  are excited about it. Anyway, let's get into the
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  content for this week, OK? As promised from last week, I
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  said that I would get into the Meta Antitrust trial a little
• 1:06
  bit. If this isn't something that
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  you're interested in, please feel free to skip ahead.
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  There are time stamps in every description.
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  But yes, I'm just going to give you guys a very high level run
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  through of everything going on and what it means.
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  We definitely won't have time to get through everything, but
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  hopefully we will get the basics covered.
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  So at a fundamental level, I just wanted to touch on what
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  antitrust law actually is. So it is a set of federal laws
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  in the United States, because that is obviously the context we
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  are talking about, that try to promote economic competition and
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  limit monopoly. Obviously, economic competition
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  is good because it can drive down prices, encourage
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  innovation, and even encourage efficiency.
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  In the past few years we have seen tech giants like Meta,
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  Google, and even Apple come under fire for allegedly
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  illegally monopolizing various aspects of the industry and
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  digital space, ranging from ad tech to social media platforms.
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  If we're looking back to Trump's first presidential term, for
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  example, he repeatedly expressed concern about the dominance of
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  big tech, which is a little bit ironic given that he is very
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  buddy buddy with Elon Musk these days.
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  But part of this seemingly came from his belief that, quote,
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  conservatives have been treated very unfairly by companies like
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  Google and other big tech companies.
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  Whether you agree with that sentiment or not, it's clear
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  that a few big tech companies definitely do dominate the
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  market. Having said that, the Trump
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  administration did launch a number of antitrust cases that
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  ended up continuing over to Biden.
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  The major ones were against Google for monopolizing online
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  search function as well as digital advertising technology.
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  Another one was against Apple for allegedly monopolizing
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  smartphones. Amazon also faced one for
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  monopolizing online retail. And of course, we have Meta,
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  which is facing allegations that it monopolized personal social
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  media networks. And what we're talking about
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  here is happening at the federal level, but there is also similar
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  things happening for some companies in the United States
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  at a state level. So with that context, Meta has
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  been making headlines because the long-awaited antitrust trial
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  between Meta and the US Federal Trade Commission, or FTC, kicked
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  off on April 14th. This is going to be going on for
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  like another two months with the judge hearing arguments whether
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  Meta monopolized the markets after buying Instagram and
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  WhatsApp. So we are very much in the early
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  days. But if the FTC succeeds in
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  presenting its case, Meta might be forced to spin off Instagram
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  and WhatsApp, which would obviously be massive for the
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  company. As Lauren Finer and Alex Heath
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  report for The Verge quote, Instagram is the companies most
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  culturally relevant service by far.
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  With millions of active creators, WhatsApp is estimated
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  to be the most used messaging app in the world.
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  Both apps are critical surfaces for Meta to distribute its AI
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  assistant, which Zuckerberg sees as the next major tech battle.
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  I just wanted to include that quote because I think it shows
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  that beyond the cultural relevance of Instagram, it shows
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  that Instagram and WhatsApp holds significance for the
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  company moving forward. So obviously I'm not going to be
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  covering everything that has come out from the trial so far,
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  but I will try give you the highlights.
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  If you want the play by play, I've already mentioned it, but
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  The Verge is doing some really accessible and comprehensive
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  reporting on the trial. So definitely check that out.
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  It will be LinkedIn the description.
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  I also listened to The Verge Cast podcast this morning, which
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  also had some really interesting insights about the trial because
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  one of the hosts for that episode has been in the
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  courtroom. Anyway, what has been making
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  probably the most headlines is that Mark Zuckerberg has spent
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  hours on the stand and he was essentially questioned about
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  Facebook's early days and his intention to purchase WhatsApp
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  and Instagram. Which from many journalists
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  seemed kind of boring to be honest, because it seemed like
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  it was just a lot of reviewing of previous company emails.
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  But some of the most interesting points that have come out of all
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  of this is that when it came to Instagram, Zuckerberg downplayed
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  then Facebook wanting to buy Instagram as a potential
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  competitor. Because one of the main
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  questions around the trial so far has been the intentions of
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  Zuckerberg as to why he wanted to patch his Instagram, whether
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  it was a way to neutralize a competitor.
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  Because that kind of feeds into our idea of a monopoly.
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  And when it came to the issue of WhatsApp, Zuck did admit that
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  quote. We worried about them broadly
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  competing with us ahead of the purchase of the app.
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  But according to reports on his testimony, Zach kind of was
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  shading the WhatsApp founders a little bit, kind of insinuating
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  that they weren't super ambitious.
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  So while he may have been worried about them as
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  competition, I don't think he actually thought they could go
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  very far off the back of this. There has also been a lot of
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  conversation around whether Instagram and WhatsApp would
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  have been as successful as they are if Mehta didn't buy the
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  platform. And this will definitely be
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  something that the judge has to grapple with.
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  Another interesting thing that has come out of the trial is
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  that it seemed like Zuckerberg kind of saw this coming, where
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  it was revealed that he had grappled with the idea of
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  spinning off Instagram as a separate company as early as
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  2018, which was also a year or so before the FTC initially
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  opened its antitrust investigations.
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  Obviously, through all of this, Zuckerberg has really doubled
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  down on the fact that he doesn't see Meta as a monopoly, which is
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  obviously what he is trying to show to the court.
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  But he pointed to Meta's growth, saying that it really slowed due
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  to the rise of TikTok and YouTube, where he said, quote,
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  people spend more time on YouTube than Facebook and
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  Instagram combined, certainly more than either one
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  independently. So this kind of points to
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  another big discussion that is coming out of the courtroom and
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  that is exactly who would be Meta's competitors.
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  Meta is kind of positioning themselves more in competition
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  with the likes of TikTok and other social media platforms,
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  whereas the FTC is claiming that Meta has a monopoly in, quote,
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  personal social networking, which revolves around
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  connections between friends and family.
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  So some of the competitors there would be Snapchat.
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  And also they've mentioned this smaller app called me We, which
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  I genuinely have never heard of. But this is also being a really
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  interesting point of discussion as far as market definition
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  goes, because to me, I don't know, I feel like Meda is
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  competing with the likes of TikTok more than Snapchat.
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  But I don't know. I'd be interested to hear what
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  you guys think of that. OK, so I feel like those are
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  kind of the main discussion points that are floating around
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  in the media at the moment about the trial.
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  But there was another interesting point that was
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  slightly cooked that came up during Zuckerberg's testimony.
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  And that was that, according to internal emails from 2022,
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  Zuckerberg floated the idea of potentially, quote, wiping
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  everyone's grass and having them start again to essentially make
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  friending people on Facebook more relevant.
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  And I feel like that is actually crazy because I don't know if
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  all my friends on Facebook, like, we're gone, if I would
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  actually go back and add people again.
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  Because half the people I have on Facebook, I probably haven't
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  even met. And just like, know from around.
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  I feel like it's good that that didn't actually end up
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  happening. So there were definitely no real
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  kind of big bombshells while Zach was on the stand.
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  But there were some things that I found interesting.
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  And one was that the Cambridge Analytica scandal didn't
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  actually impact Mehta's engagement metrics.
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  And also that Mehta reportedly offered $1 billion to settle
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  this lawsuit. And obviously that has been
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  unsuccessful. But this is still a breaking
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  story. So I'm sure there will be more
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  information to come, but those are the highlights.
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  And hopefully that is enough context to help you understand
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  what is going on when you see certain headlines.
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  Also, in a similar vein, I have another kind of offshoot story.
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  Funnily enough, in this same week that this has all been
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  going on, Google lost a landmark antitrust case.
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  As we mentioned earlier, Google is facing a number of antitrust
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  cases, but this one was about monopolizing the advertising
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  technology industry. This case essentially claims
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  that Google orchestrated a campaign to control online
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  advertising, and allegations suggest that the company spent
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  billions acquiring tools that publishes and advertisers depend
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  on in the digital ad market. I am no expert in the ad
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  industry, so I don't really want to get into the nitty gritty of
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  how digital ads work, but this is not the first time that
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  Google has faced a legal blow when it comes to antitrust
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  cases. Last year, a judge handed down a
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  decision that ruled that Google had been exploiting its
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  dominance to stifle any competition around online
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  search. And if it goes that way, Google
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  may have to spin off Chrome. And I did actually see a
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  headline before I sat down to record that Open AI would buy
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  Google's Chrome browser, according to Bloomberg.
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  Nevertheless, as far as the advertising case goes, Google
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  said that it will appeal the decision.
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  At the end of the day, I just think the context of all of this
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  is so, so interesting, especially because of the way
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  that we've seen Big Tech cozy up to Trump through his campaign
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  and since his inauguration. I'm sure we all remember the
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  picture of all the tech Bros sitting front row at the
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  inauguration. With hindsight, it does kind of
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  seem like this was an attempt to soften the administration's
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  stance when it came to this kind of thing, and maybe they thought
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  that friendship and flattery towards Trump would do that.
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  But I don't think it's working too well for them.
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  So I will keep you updated, I guess with how this all goes.
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  If anything interesting breaks, but that is the lowdown.
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  OK, My next story that I wanted to talk about today is about a
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  new report that was published by YouTube that is all about
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  virtual creators. The report, which was published
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  on April 17th, spoke about the rise of virtual creators,
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  characterizing this type of influencer as quote, a new
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  frontier virtual creators or V tubers as they are called in the
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  report, which is honestly a time I've never heard.
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  So do with that what you will. Exactly what you would expect
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  though. They are creators that may be AI
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  generated or animated. The report sampled 300 virtual
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  creators and found a collective quote, 15 billion views across
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  videos, live streams and shorts, with 1 billion of those views
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  coming from the US alone. So this clearly shows that this
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  type of influencer is significant in the space.
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  It also does seem to have some kind of longevity, given that
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  over the past three years, videos related to virtual
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  creators have averaged 50 billion views annually.
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  The report does make a distinction between different
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  types of virtual influences, separating them into four
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  categories. The first was AV 2 Bar.
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  I honestly hate that name, but it's apparently a distinct type
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  of on screen persona, a virtual character living in the real
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  world. Then they have a game virtual
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  creator, which is a creator who utilizes the character creation
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  in video games to develop virtual personas.
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  The third one is a virtual artist, which is a creator with
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  a distinguished focus on music creation and performance.
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  And then lastly, a virtual human, which is a creator who
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  represents themselves more quote realistically than their
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  fantastical video game or anime derived counterparts.
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  So that was taken directly from the report, but I definitely
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  think it shows the best utility of these kind of creators.
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  But as the report notes, this type of creator feels the most
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  native to gaming content, which is something I agree with.
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  As the report reads quote, gameplay streaming is both
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  mechanically ideal and aesthetically complementary to
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  virtual creators, and it is familiar to YouTube viewers.
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  So the reason I wanted to include this report was I am
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  just very curious about the longevity of these types of
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  content creators because obviously they have already been
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  around for a while. And I do think this creator, it
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  will become more and more common with the rise of AI and it
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  becomes easier to create this kind of content.
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  Also with short form content remaining popular, the barrier
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  to entry is definitely lower where people can try their hand
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  at virtual influences through short form and kind of more
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  relaxed trends. But on the flip side, I think
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  people have been interested in virtual influences up until this
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  point, partly because of the intrigue around them.
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  And what I mean by that is I think many people would have
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  been introduced to this kind content and engaged with it
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  because of their curiosity and confusion.
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  For example, from memory, my first time being introduced to
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  the concept of a virtual influencer was actually through
• 13:52
  Little Michaela after she really, really blew up when
• 13:55
  Shane Dawson did a conspiracy theory on her probably around
• 13:59
  2017 or 2018 at this point. So as these virtual creators
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  become increasingly common, I am intrigued about whether viewers
• 14:08
  will remain as interested. Like I could kind of see you
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  going either way either. It just becomes the norm with
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  the rise of AI. And essentially these types of
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  creators replace animated cartoons on streaming platforms
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  and TV, for example. Or people could just simply
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  start searching for human to human connection and want to
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  consume content by real people in an Internet that is overrun
• 14:30
  by AII. Am curious though, to hear what
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  you think about virtual influences, if you watch them,
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  whether you like them, whether you think they have longevity.
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  I I'm kind of on the fence with this one.
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  And my last story for today is actually another legal one.
• 14:44
  We are now a law podcast. I'm kidding, obviously, but the
• 14:48
  creator of the Apple Dance is suing Roblox.
• 14:52
  OK, so the one and only Kelly Haya is suing Roblox for using
• 14:56
  her viral choreography to the Apple Dance without that
• 14:59
  permission. So I'm sure we are all familiar
• 15:01
  with the Apple Dance at this point.
• 15:04
  But how it ties into Roblox is that last year when Brat Summer
• 15:08
  was in full swing, RAPI miss her already.
• 15:11
  The company ended up partnering with Charlie XCX and it was in
• 15:15
  one of the platforms. Those popular games being
• 15:18
  dressed to Impress. I fear I have spoken about
• 15:21
  dressed to impress before, in passing maybe, but it was a game
• 15:24
  that blew up last year where you would play against other users
• 15:28
  and have like 5 minutes to dress to a certain theme.
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  Then all the players in the round would rate one another out
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  of five stars and the person with the highest amount of stars
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  won. Me and my friends did have a
• 15:40
  little dress to impress phase and honestly we need to bring it
• 15:43
  back. It was so fun.
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  But like I definitely did get bullied in the chat when people
• 15:49
  were rating me. But anyway.
• 15:50
  So Dress to Impress had a Brat update where there was new
• 15:54
  clothing, new hair items, new makeup items that were
• 15:58
  introduced that were all Brat themed.
• 16:00
  There was also new Brat inspired poses that were introduced for
• 16:03
  players and one of them was the choreography to the Apple Dance.
• 16:07
  Aside from Dress Film Press, Roblox was also offering the
• 16:11
  Apple Dance as an emote for Roblox avatars.
• 16:14
  Now the Apple Dance is no longer available for sale, but I
• 16:17
  believe it would have had to be purchased with Roblox, which is
• 16:20
  real money. Kelly reportedly filed the
• 16:23
  lawsuit on April 11th, claiming that they were in negotiations
• 16:26
  with Roblox to license the dance, but Roblox released the
• 16:29
  update before there was a conclusion to these
• 16:31
  negotiations. As for the timeline, Nicole
• 16:34
  Carpenter for Polygon wrote it down writing quote.
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  Roblox added the dance emote in mid August, coinciding with
• 16:40
  address to Impress update that added everything brat into the
• 16:43
  game on August 17th. Hey, I first posted the Apple
• 16:47
  Dance on June 15th, 2024 and submitted A copyright
• 16:51
  application for it. That was after Roblox contacted
• 16:54
  her to license the dance, which came after Charlie XCX's label
• 16:58
  contacted Roblox to get the artist interest to impress.
• 17:01
  Heya said she was willing to license for dance on August 12th
• 17:04
  part the lawsuit, but the dance was released before negotiations
• 17:08
  were finalized. According to the complaint,
• 17:11
  Roblox did make quite a bit of money off the Apple Dance emote.
• 17:17
  As the complaint reads, quote Roblox sold in excess of 60,000
• 17:21
  units of the Apple Dance emote for an estimated $120,000 in
• 17:26
  sales from Miss Hayes copyrighted work.
• 17:29
  As the Apple Dance emote comprises solely of the Apple
• 17:32
  Dance choreography, completely separate and distinct from the
• 17:35
  Charlie XCX song, the sole artist for purposes of the emote
• 17:38
  is Miss Hale. In the Polygon article, the
• 17:41
  journalist also discussed how Kelly's Apple Dance had been
• 17:45
  licensed correctly to Fortnite and sold as an emote, and had
• 17:49
  also been licensed to Netflix for its usage as well.
• 17:52
  But we have literally been having the discussion around
• 17:56
  crediting dances on TikTok for years at the at this point.
• 17:59
  And I know this feels a little bit different, but ever since
• 18:02
  the renegade dance went so viral, I feel like we've been
• 18:04
  discussing how choreographies, many of whom are people of
• 18:08
  color, never get the credit they are owed.
• 18:11
  So I simply do not know how this could have happened from a major
• 18:15
  company. But at the end of the day, I
• 18:17
  think it brings to light a really interesting discussion
• 18:20
  around ownership and virality and how when things go so viral
• 18:24
  and trends are reinvented and recreated by people, we all kind
• 18:28
  of develop our own sense of ownership over a dance or
• 18:31
  whatever when that really shouldn't be the case.
• 18:33
  I'm not saying that in relation to Roblox specifically, but I
• 18:36
  just think it's when it comes to user generated content more
• 18:40
  generally. I am interested to see though
• 18:42
  where this case goes. I feel like Kelly wouldn't have
• 18:46
  filed A complaint if she didn't think she could get something
• 18:48
  out of it, obviously. So I'm hoping that it is a
• 18:51
  success for her. OK, well I guess that is
• 18:54
  everything from me today. Lauren will be coming back on
• 18:58
  the pod tomorrow. I actually will not be speaking
• 19:00
  to you next week. Lauren spoke a little bit about
• 19:02
  that on yesterday's episode. But there will be content going
• 19:05
  up. So don't worry.
• 19:06
  You will still be getting your daily dose of mini scroll.
• 19:09
  But I will see you soon and thanks for listening.
• 19:13
  Bye.