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Imperialist Sectarian Tactics Turned Against Western Populations · UK Column Radio

0:08
Hello and welcome to the UK column.
0:09
I'm delighted today to be joined by Vanessa Bailey and well,
0:13
we're going to have a bit of a conversation, Vanessa, about the
0:17
current events. It's probably going to be quite
0:20
wide ranging but I suppose the issue which is sparked this
0:25
discussion is the ongoing issue of immigration, particularly
0:31
today. We're recording this on Saturday
0:33
the 13th of September and of course this is the day of the
0:37
Million Man March that Tommy Robinson has organised.
0:41
We don't it's, it's early in the morning so we don't know exactly
0:45
how that's going to go. But, you know, obviously there
0:48
is significant feeling in the country about the issue of
0:53
immigration. And I would suggest that the
1:00
focus of that angst and that emotion is something which has
1:07
been targeted by kind of agents of the state that would like to
1:12
see this being blown up into a major issue of conflict.
1:16
It's certainly already a major issue of division around the
1:19
country. And, and it's not just happening
1:23
in the UK either. The United States is
1:25
experiencing this to some degree, European countries as
1:28
well. So, and, and you know, we have
1:32
been saying on the UK column news over the last several weeks
1:36
that this smacks of, of some kind of psychological operation.
1:43
It's certainly driving people to extremes of of positions and and
1:49
developing an issue of of sectarianism.
1:53
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean we've talked about
1:55
this also on UK column the, the policy or the strategy of sowing
2:03
division, which has been used to a large degree very successfully
2:08
in the West Asia region. And we're seeing it now being
2:12
particularly ramped up in Syria since the fall of the former
2:16
government back in December 2024.
2:18
And the bringing to power of what is effectively a terrorist
2:22
unelected regime headed up by a former ISIS and al Qaeda chief
2:28
in Iraq and Syria and his entire administration or former or or
2:34
still are takfiri elements. And the sectarianism that is now
2:44
being exacerbated in order to eventually bring about the
2:48
partitioning or the federalization of Syria.
2:51
We've or I've written about that this week at UK column.
2:54
People can go and read that for more detail on on how it's
2:59
actually being done. But my fear is, you know, if we
3:03
go back throughout history, this is this has been used to sow
3:09
division, to sow hatred, to sow marginalisation of certain
3:16
communities within a population. If we go back to the 70s in the
3:21
UK and the claims by media that black people were committing the
3:27
majority of the crimes of violent mugging.
3:31
If we go to the 90s in the United States when Hillary
3:35
Clinton was amplifying the fact that there were hyper violent
3:41
crime acts being committed by what were known as the Super
3:45
predators, which were black people in the United States.
3:49
And that of course has led to police vilification and abuse of
3:54
these communities, but also popular sentiment turning
3:59
against those communities. And if we Fast forward now, of
4:03
course in the US, we're seeing the same kind of criminalization
4:07
of the immigrant communities in the United States, particularly
4:12
from Latin America. I'm sure it's no coincidence
4:15
that Venezuelans are being included in that in some kind of
4:19
gang war narratives that of course are are being disproven.
4:25
But the disproving of those narratives comes well after the
4:29
media and and political institutions and dubious special
4:34
interest groups are involved in basically drumming those
4:39
narratives into people's brains and pushing them to effectively
4:43
turn against sectors of their society, Some of them the
4:47
poorest and and the most segregated and marginalised
4:50
sectors of their society, without any attempt to bridge
4:56
the gaps with those communities within their own society.
5:00
And that's what I find kind of depressing is is, you know, we
5:07
should have learned COVID, in my opinion, was another exercise to
5:11
see how this would work because COVID, although it's not a
5:14
racialized event, it was an event that divided people
5:18
against those who believed in COVID.
5:20
Those who didn't or suspected that it that it was some kind of
5:24
project. Those that believed in the
5:27
vaccines, those that didn't, those that believed in bodily
5:31
autonomy, those that didn't Brexit the same thing.
5:35
People were divided along political lines on that, even
5:40
class lines to to some extent when 1 looks at who actually was
5:44
pro Brexit, who was against and so on.
5:47
These are all exercises to dividers and and we're not
5:50
learning each time when they happen and how the media is
5:56
amplifying 1 narrative over another and pushing people
5:59
towards some kind of division and, and internal strife and,
6:09
and hatred of other sectors of their society.
6:12
And you know, I don't like using the word hatred, but that's what
6:15
it actually comes down to. Well, I have to say the
6:20
obviously the most recent event in the United States, the murder
6:23
of Charlie Kirk, is a great example of this as well.
6:26
I mean, I have to admit I don't spend half as much time on X or
6:34
see social media platforms as maybe as I should.
6:36
It's a good thing, I think. Yeah, yeah.
6:39
Well, you know, I have to admit I was just the degree of, of
6:45
vitriol between the left and the right.
6:49
And, and bearing in mind that my personal view, and you can
6:52
criticise this if you wish, but my personal view is that, that
6:56
left and right are, are fake divisions.
7:00
That's, that's, it's time for us to stop looking left and right
7:04
and start looking up as a, as a, as a combined community.
7:08
And, and you know, this, this is our problem.
7:13
We we constantly fall for this, looking left and looking right
7:18
instead of looking up and and we we get played every time.
7:23
Yeah. And of course, you know, what's
7:24
what's the ultimate goal of this kind of strategy.
7:31
I think what you saw almost immediately was a knee jerk
7:34
reaction, which I would say, you know, was planned in advance to
7:38
some degree by Trump to bring in greater pre crime surveillance,
7:44
greater punitive measures against pre crime, against the
7:48
potential for crime based on what happened to Charlie Cook
7:53
without any investigation. And this is what we keep saying.
7:57
So every time that these divisions are exacerbated,
8:04
orchestrated, and people fall for it, what happens?
8:08
We end up in a in a situation where greater totalitarian
8:14
measures are brought in to control and surveil the public
8:19
and the population generally, not just one sector of the
8:22
population, but the entire population and to distract from
8:27
whatever the government is doing, which is criminal.
8:31
I mean, you know, they've Karistama has had meetings with
8:35
the President, Isaac Herzog of a genocidal entity proven by the
8:41
international, the ICJ of committing genocide against
8:47
Palestinians. You know, was it the general
8:50
public's opinion that he should be allowed into the country to
8:55
have meetings to to be given a platform at Chatham House to
9:00
mention one to justify and excuse the actions of the
9:07
Israeli regime against Palestinians and Gaza and the
9:11
West Bank, which is an ongoing slaughter.
9:15
And as many physicians now are saying, it's, it's that the
9:20
psychopathy runs across the entire Israeli population.
9:26
I mean, I saw an interview the other day with a psychologist
9:29
and, and a, and a Doctor Who was saying exactly this.
9:32
So this is coming from expert opinion.
9:34
It's not something that that I'm making up.
9:37
And yet our government is not only welcoming individuals from
9:43
within the ruling class of that entity, that entity as we've
9:49
been discussing on UK column has embedded itself in British
9:52
society, in British healthcare, military, cyber surveillance,
9:59
weapons manufacture, the training of British military
10:03
etcetera. And and we're not given a say in
10:06
this and this is the point. So what happens is, is each of
10:10
these division tactics widens the chasm between the general
10:17
public and the ruling class that then are effectively surveilling
10:22
the the general public if if they are did are are challenging
10:27
any policy of the government, there's no representation of the
10:32
general public anymore in this country.
10:34
There, there is literally surveillance, disproportionate
10:39
force against dissent. We're seeing that now with the
10:43
with the defence of Palestine action.
10:45
We're seeing elderly people literally being picked up off
10:48
the street and and arrested. You know, it's, it's
10:52
extraordinary. And every time that we fall for
10:55
one of these orchestrated division paradigms, we're
11:05
enabling further enforcement of what is effectively a a fascist
11:10
regime. So on yes, on Friday the 12th
11:15
news programme at the end, Patrick made the point reminded
11:21
everybody you know, because today is is the 13th and the day
11:25
of the million man March. Patrick reminded everybody that
11:31
the George Cross flag and the patron St of England St.
11:37
George that his mother was Palestinian.
11:42
Why was he doing that? And I, I got AI got an email
11:44
from somebody this morning saying how dare he do that.
11:49
This was disrespectful. Of course, it wasn't being
11:51
disrespectful to the flag at all.
11:53
It was, it was pointing out an irony here because of course,
11:59
once again we have the situation where large numbers of people
12:03
are trying to are, are wanting to rather rely on what they
12:09
perceive to be a knight in shining armour to come along and
12:12
save the day. And, and in the case of the UK,
12:14
that's Tommy Robinson. And the irony of this whole
12:19
thing is that Tommy Robinson is to a large degree supported and
12:24
funded by this, that Zionist entity that you're talking
12:27
about. And, and so one of the features
12:31
of of the current angst of the immigration issue is that all
12:40
the focus is on is on the Muslim community, despite the fact that
12:44
the the immigration issue is not even close to being restricted
12:51
to the Muslim community. In fact, the Muslim community is
12:53
a relatively small part of the issue now because there's lots
12:56
of Central African people from Central Africa coming, people
13:01
from Albania, people from other Slavic countries.
13:05
And, and so this is not a, this is not a, a sort of Pakistan,
13:13
Bangladesh kind of issue by any means.
13:17
I understand, although there have been quite a number coming
13:20
from Afghanistan and Syria as a result of the conflict.
13:24
But the point is this is not about, you know, the immigration
13:28
issue is not a Muslim issue, but it's being made a Muslim issue
13:31
by Tommy Robinson. And and then you've got to ask
13:33
the question, why is it being made a Muslim issue?
13:36
And is there it could it by any chance be something to do with
13:40
the fact of whom of of who he is supported by and and their their
13:46
particular agenda? And so people are falling for a
13:49
trap again, it seems to me. Yeah, absolutely.
13:51
I mean, I, you know, I think you and I discussed with Professor
13:56
David Miller who are actually where the term Islamic extremism
14:03
originated from. And of course that was from
14:05
within the Zionist movement. They created the fear of Islamic
14:12
extremism, portraying it as a patriarchal anti women vicious
14:21
Sharia law concept. When in reality Israel itself is
14:28
supporting and funding the extremist factions that
14:32
originated in Qatar and Saudi Arabia and particularly in
14:37
Qatar. Al Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood in
14:40
Saudi Arabia, the Wahhabi extremist strain of Islam that
14:45
are now the ruling regime in Syria doing deals with Israel
14:53
allowing Israel to expand further into Syrian territory.
14:57
Meeting with Israel on the sidelines of the UNGA supposedly
15:02
on September the 24th. Jolani is going and IS destined,
15:06
apparently, according to Israeli media, to be meeting with
15:09
Netanyahu and representatives there.
15:12
So it's very clear. And if you look at the history,
15:16
the fact that Saudi Arabia through the Darwin Treaty, was
15:21
created at the same time as the Zionist entity by the British,
15:27
and that those particular Gulf states were protected by the
15:30
British in order to provide the kind of protectionism and
15:34
apologism for the Zionist entity from its inception as an
15:39
occupying force on Palestinian territory.
15:42
So it's very clear that they are allied throughout history and
15:49
that alliance was created by the British.
15:52
But of course, what the Zionist movement is doing is demonising
15:58
not those factions, because those factions are useful to
16:01
Zionism, particularly as we're seeing in Syria, And also
16:05
they're being weaponized potentially against Lebanon.
16:08
We've been hearing reports that the Takfiri elements in Syria
16:12
are going to be used to attack Lebanon, to, of course, destroy
16:17
the resistance against Israel there, at the same time as
16:20
Washington and Tel Aviv are planning an economic free trade
16:24
zone in southern Lebanon, which means the occupation of Lebanese
16:28
territory, right? But the reality is, what is
16:32
Israel doing? It's it's effectively targeting
16:36
pro Palestinian Muslim elements globally.
16:39
Because since Jelani has come to power in Syria, what has he
16:43
done? He's dismantled the Palestinian
16:45
resistance there. He's disarmed it.
16:47
He's imprisoned leaders of Palestinian resistance that have
16:51
been in Syria, many of them for decades.
16:55
So effectively he's there also to dismantle Palestinian
16:59
resistance there. They're targeting Palestinian
17:02
refugee camps in Lebanon. And now, of course, what's
17:05
happening is that you're seeing the Zionist movement leading a
17:09
campaign, even through the NHS, against British Palestinian
17:13
doctors. We've reported on this also on
17:15
UK column to effectively deprive them of their career of, of, of
17:23
their jobs to drive them out of, of the, the National Health
17:28
Service and bring in, you know, again, we've reported on this
17:34
bring in Zionist aligned doctors and medical staff that have a
17:39
record of violating the rules of, of the GMC, the the General
17:46
Medical Council. But of course, who have been
17:48
protected by the Zionist movement and who have not
17:51
received the punitive measures that British, Palestinian or
17:54
British doctors who support Palestine are going to be on the
17:59
receiving end of. So, you know, for me it's
18:02
absolutely clear who is behind this level of division.
18:07
Yes, exactly now and as you say that the focus of the of the ire
18:13
of of people is on ordinary Muslims and and.
18:18
Who are part of British society and have been, you know, 2-3
18:23
generation. Indeed, the 2 two things, two
18:27
points to make here. The first is that, you know, I
18:30
think must be nearly 20 years ago now, the UK column invited
18:38
the chairman of Birmingham Central Mosque, Dr Doctor
18:43
Mohammed Nsim, to come and speak here.
18:46
It was a very interesting conversation.
18:48
He was talking about why, you know, he and his people of his
18:52
generation came to the UK in the 1st place and it was because of
18:55
their perception of the rule of law and the, the lifestyle and,
19:00
and so on. But then in, in more recent
19:05
years and so on, we've had other Muslim friends tell us about how
19:12
things have changed within the Muslim, not within the Muslim
19:17
community, but within the, the, the, the mosques and so on.
19:22
In particular, and some mosques having new amounts being brought
19:26
in and new ideologies being brought in and, and a type of a
19:29
type of Islam that that they were absolutely unfamiliar with
19:33
being preached in in these places.
19:37
And, you know, they were, they were asking very serious
19:41
questions about who were these people and why were they here?
19:45
And, and what was this version of Islam.
19:47
And, and something that, that struck me in something that you
19:51
said to me back at the time of the, of the change of government
19:58
and in Syria, was that overnight, the, the call to
20:05
prayer change from being, which is something which had beauty,
20:09
just being something which was harsh and actually quite
20:12
unpleasant to listen to. And that overnight it was clear
20:17
that a new ideology had arrived now.
20:23
Let's just talk a little bit a little bit about that ideology
20:26
because because this is something that that most people
20:29
don't appreciate is still is something that was really
20:34
created by Britain. Yeah, it was.
20:37
I mean, again, if we go back to Saudi Arabia and around the same
20:42
time of kind of Sykes Picot and the Balfour Declaration, which
20:48
of course was heralding in the Zionist occupation and ethnic
20:52
cleansing of Palestine, which ramped up in 1948 and has never
20:58
actually stopped. Of course, it's intensified
21:01
again since October the 7th. But if we go back to the history
21:06
of Saudi Arabia itself, in the beginning the British tried to
21:11
ally with Hussein Sharif. And the fact is that even back
21:19
then the division was created in the sense that they then aligned
21:25
themselves more with the AL Saud family because they were
21:30
prepared to drop the cause of Palestine.
21:33
Hussein Sharif was not prepared to drop the cause of Palestine.
21:37
Lawrence of Arabia went to try and offer him monetary benefits
21:43
or incentives to do so and he refused.
21:46
So basically what happened? The British unleashed the House
21:50
of Saud Wahhabi forces on Hussein Sharif, which is the the
21:56
Hijazi area of Saudi Arabia. And that's when Wahhabism became
22:01
the dominant ideology in Saudi Arabia purely because it's
22:06
designed to support Zionism. It's, it's designed to support
22:12
the, the, the Israeli state, such as it is, and that is what
22:19
it has done historically. When has Saudi Arabia ever
22:23
attacked Israel? When has it ever defended a
22:25
country that is being attacked by Israel?
22:28
On the contrary, right now Saudi Arabia is effectively trying to
22:32
drive an economic collapse of Lebanon by withholding
22:38
reconstruction aid and investment on the basis that
22:44
that will flow once Hezbollah agree to disarm or once the
22:48
Lebanese army is weaponized against Hezbollah, which is
22:52
never going to happen. So Saudi Arabia is acting, if
22:55
you like, as as an arm of the Zionist entity, and that has
22:59
been its historical role and the Wahhabi doctrine.
23:03
I mean, I was just actually before I came on, I was reading
23:07
a Facebook post that somebody sent me from a Wahhabi guy based
23:14
in America working for Amazon, but who is putting posts on his
23:19
Facebook basically saying, you know, we have the right under
23:25
our ideology, our Islam to slaughter the Nuseri, which are
23:29
the the Alawites and and the Shia Muslims in Syria.
23:33
We can rape them, we can kill them, we can slaughter them, we
23:37
can slaughter all infidels. This is the mentality exactly
23:42
the same ethnos supremacism that Zionism is.
23:48
That's what Wahhabism, Ikhwan, which is political Islam, the
23:53
Muslim Brotherhood, which again has been weaponized by the
23:55
British and the Americans, particularly in Syria since its
24:00
creation in Egypt in in the 20s and 30s, right?
24:06
So these are weapons of colonialism, these are weapons
24:10
of imperialism, and these are partners in the crimes of the
24:15
Zionist entity against the region, the whole region, not
24:19
only Palestine, of course, because the the strategy is to
24:23
destroy any resistance to Zionist dominance.
24:28
And of course, by Zionist, I mean the entire Zionist bloc,
24:31
which are the Arab Gulf states, the West, Turkey is kind of on
24:37
the outskirts right now that that's a little bit more
24:40
complicated because there's competition between the neo
24:42
Ottoman agenda and, and the Zionist expansionism.
24:48
And, and so therefore these factions, and you're absolutely
24:52
right, it's, it's a perversion of Islam.
24:55
It's, it's a, it's a form of Islam that has absolutely
24:59
nothing to do with what Islam actually represents.
25:02
And that's the problem is that people don't understand that
25:06
true Islam is the religion of peace.
25:11
And I can hear people, you know, raising their hands in horror
25:15
right now. But at the same time, please
25:19
bear with me because I've lived in Muslim majority countries for
25:24
the last on and off 15 years. I know what true Islam is.
25:30
It's it's living in those countries, particularly in
25:33
Syria, which is Muslim majority and it is Sunni Muslim majority.
25:39
But those Sunni Muslim, for the majority, they, they reject
25:43
Wahhabism, they reject the kind of fanatics, sectarian ethno
25:47
supremacism that is being seen from the Jelani regime that is
25:53
responsible for the massacres of the Druze, of the Alawites, of
25:57
the Christians in Syria. The ethnic cleansing that is now
26:02
being seen in Syria, the resettlement of takfiri elements
26:06
in in formerly Alawite or Christian or Druze areas.
26:11
And the majority of Sunni Muslims, although they're
26:14
terrified to speak out publicly, privately do not adhere to to
26:20
these policies. And this is exactly what what
26:24
we're now facing in the UK if people don't try and understand
26:29
what true Islam is and what true Muslim communities are.
26:35
Yeah, Mike, you're absolutely right.
26:37
There were Saudi imams being brought in across Europe and in
26:42
the UK leading up to the regime change war against Syria, which
26:46
of course was led by Bush and Blair, so by the British and the
26:52
Americans. And that entire practise was to
26:58
radicalise British Muslims in order for them to go and perform
27:05
jihad. I don't use the the terminology
27:08
jihadist, but to go and fight under the banner of Wahhabism,
27:14
Takfiri extremism in order to secure a Takfiri caliphate in
27:20
the region, not only in Syria but to expand into Iraq and
27:26
onwards, right even. In just sorry just to just to
27:29
clarify Wahhabi ISM and takfiri those wahhabi and takfiri these
27:34
terms are still not synonymous. Yeah, they are.
27:38
I mean, takfir ISM, it is that kind of extremist Islam, Yes,
27:46
Yeah. But when you talk about, you
27:47
know, Islamists or jihadists, I don't like those terms because
27:51
jihad is, is actually a personal struggle.
27:55
It's a spiritual struggle, generally speaking.
27:59
Islamist, of course, is a time that was coined by the Zionist
28:02
movement and many people sort of have been channelled by media
28:10
outlets into using that terminology, which in itself is
28:14
is a language that is not recognised by the majority of
28:19
Muslims. And you know, when we talk about
28:22
Saudi Imam, sorry, just finishing that point coming into
28:26
Britain and Europe to radicalise Muslim communities, we have to
28:29
again remember that Saudi Arabia was effectively created.
28:35
The House of Saud was was weaponized by the British to
28:37
support the Zionists. So, in other words, these Muslim
28:42
youths are being radicalised effectively by the Zionist
28:46
movement in order to fight their wars for them in the Middle
28:50
East. And so it's, it's vitally
28:53
important to to to understand the history of the Middle East.
28:57
And, and we could say that, yeah, you know, we have sorry,
29:02
we have been propagandised with films like Lawrence of Arabia
29:06
over the years to, to believe a certain version of history.
29:11
But but a point that, you know, the point that you're making
29:14
very clearly here and I think that we need to keep reinforcing
29:18
is that and part of the reason that Syria is so important is
29:22
because it was an example of a majority Muslim country which
29:26
had no sectarianism of any kind. It was it was multiple faiths
29:34
and cultures living together absolutely happily who were
29:38
Syrian first and whatever their particular culture happened to
29:42
be second. But that over the course of the
29:49
conflict there since 2011, and particularly since the what
29:54
happened in December, the country is now facing a form of
30:00
sectarianism which is really unprecedented and and really
30:07
pretty horrendous and certainly much, much worse that was ever
30:10
seen in countries like Northern Ireland, for example.
30:12
Absolutely. And, and you know, even during
30:16
the regime change war, and particularly in the last 4-5
30:19
years when Trump's economic policy, which of course was to
30:23
impose the Caesar Act sanctions, which penalised any country that
30:29
wanted to come to the assistance of Syria, even during the
30:33
earthquake back in 2023, I think from memory, that deepened the
30:43
poverty and, and raised the spectre of sectarianism.
30:48
But it still didn't take hold. It actually only took hold when
30:53
Gilani took power. And of course that was the
30:56
intention because his dominance of Idlib LED only to
31:01
sectarianism. His entire construct was
31:04
sectarian. The White Helmets, which were an
31:07
organisation created by the West, led by the UK and MI 6
31:13
were a sectarian organisation. The founder, James Lamager,
31:17
actually said this in an interview with Georgetown
31:19
University, I think around 2016. He said the one problem is it's
31:24
a sectarian organisation. So this sectarianism came from
31:29
the West, right? It was created by the West, not
31:33
by Syria itself or since Hafiz al Assad, that the country had
31:40
been a cohesive social secular fabric that, as you said, was
31:46
inclusive of all religions and all sects.
31:50
Nobody, nobody asked what sect their neighbour was.
31:55
More Muslims celebrated Christmas than the Christians.
31:58
I mean, I always remember going out on the streets of Damascus,
32:02
the majority of people taking selfies in front of the, the
32:05
Christmas decorations and the huge trees that lined the
32:09
streets were, were Muslim, many of them hijabi, right?
32:13
And, and this was what Syria was.
32:15
If if you went out on the Old city on a Friday or a Saturday
32:19
night, you would see Muslims alongside Christians alongside
32:24
atheists and so on, all out drinking, dancing, having a good
32:28
time. That was what Syria was.
32:31
Now it isn't. Now it's it's really being
32:34
plunged into a sectarianism that I think in the entire history of
32:38
Syria, it's not experienced. It's unprecedented, yeah.
32:41
And we are starting to see the same thing happening in the UK.
32:45
And and what, what I really want to touch on here is how this is
32:51
developed. I mean, for example, the whole
32:54
issue of two tier policing and everybody's saying, you know,
33:00
lots of people blaming migrants for two tier policing when when
33:08
in fact somebody has made a decision to treat people in a
33:13
certain way. So, you know, anybody that's
33:16
camp that's, you know, raising, raising an issue of of the
33:22
migrant issue and speaking out in social media, having their
33:26
being censored or worse, ending up in prison for what they said,
33:30
when in fact all they did was say something.
33:32
They didn't actually take any violent action themselves.
33:38
That of course helps to radicalise people because that
33:43
by by taking that particular action against somebody who's
33:47
made a statement on social media, you're then encouraging
33:51
other people to believe that, that, that they can't say
33:55
anything. And therefore, and it, my point
33:57
is it, it causes people to feel like they're under attack and
34:01
that pushes them towards extremes.
34:03
And this is something that we've got to, we've got to recognise
34:09
first of all, and then recognise where that is coming from.
34:12
Because I suppose part of the problem here is that because the
34:19
migrants themselves seem like a relatively easy target, there's
34:25
a tendency for people to fall into the trap of just focusing
34:28
on that relatively easy targets. Whereas if if it's government
34:32
policy, they're having to deal with or the police or increase,
34:36
you know, perhaps in the future of the military, that is a much
34:40
scarier prospect. Sorry, I haven't expressed that
34:44
very well, but I'm just, you know, I'm trying, I'm trying to,
34:47
I'm trying to to get this out as best.
34:49
No, I mean, I think that's the point of this conversation is,
34:52
is to have this conversation because we're not necessarily
34:55
going to arrive at conclusions. But I think it's, it's all about
35:00
talking about these issues. And the problem is that we live
35:04
in a, in a society that has been pushed towards partitioning of
35:08
discussion and, and the protection of confirmation bias
35:13
and, and, and, and so on. And so people don't really want
35:18
to engage in discussions that challenge their own learned
35:25
responses or, or their own biases or their own cognitive
35:30
dissonance. I mean, you know, we're seeing
35:32
it in, in all sectors, Mike, and at UK column, we've, we've seen
35:36
it in varying degrees across all the, the major issues that we've
35:41
covered and UK column has covered for years.
35:44
This happens all the time. And so I, I think what is
35:48
important is for people to engage, you know, and, and we've
35:54
talked about this again on, on UK column, when certain issues
35:57
have been brought up, like the creation of a new mosque in a,
36:02
in a city centre somewhere that people feel threatened by, you
36:05
know, go and talk to the Muslim community that that is building
36:09
the mosque. Go and actually discuss with
36:11
them your fears. I feel we're not doing that and
36:16
and we're not allowing ourselves to create the bridges that are
36:20
being broken by the media, by special interest groups that are
36:23
generally backed by the government or funded by the
36:26
government or funded by external entities like Israel to
36:31
basically push through certain policies and, and to secure the
36:37
general public's approval of those policies because of their
36:41
own fears and their own manufactured distaste towards
36:47
some sectors of society, right? And at the same time, I'm, I'm
36:51
going to be very clear here. I'm not diminishing the risks to
36:55
British society because again, that's another layer of what's
36:58
happening, of course, is that societies for many years now
37:03
have been deliberately fractured, right?
37:07
Disconnection from faith in religion, disconnection from
37:13
children, from families and so on.
37:15
We're we're seeing it from every angle.
37:17
So I'm not diminishing that and people should also recognise
37:22
that. But as you said, we're being
37:23
driven to turn against each other rather than look up as, as
37:29
you said, you know, look up to the ruling class, to the
37:32
billionaire class, to the oligarchs, to the institutional
37:39
racist organisations that are pushing these narratives in
37:45
order to create the divisions that ultimately is going to
37:48
destroy society. Right.
37:52
You know, we're, we're hearing in the United States of the
37:56
potential for civil war. Well, the Civil War is only
37:59
going to happen if people allow themselves to be divided, for
38:03
example, over the killing of Charlie Cook, right?
38:07
It's insane, as you said. I kind of stayed off X for for
38:12
24 hours. And I spoke to Fiorelli Isabel
38:16
last night, and we talked about it, you know, But I was like, at
38:20
the end of the day, this is just another issue which we're all
38:28
being reactionary about instead of understanding the underlying
38:33
strategy that all these events are going to be exploited to
38:38
push through, right? Whether it's increased
38:42
totalitarianism, surveillance, medical measures, etcetera,
38:48
etcetera. We have to understand that we
38:52
shouldn't be reactionary to 1 issue, particularly if it's
38:55
being amplified across the board universally by the media, then
39:00
we should raise questions almost immediately.
39:03
And on that point, I just wanted to say something about, you
39:09
know, the the idea of where the Muslim grooming gang prominent
39:16
narrative came from, right? I was actually just reading this
39:19
up this morning that in 2019 there was a report done by two
39:25
journalists, award winning journalists, Brian Cathcart and
39:28
Paddy French called Andrew Norfolk, the Times newspaper and
39:32
anti Muslim reporting a case to answer.
39:35
Now what they're talking about was that this entire narrative
39:38
began back in 2011. It was generated by the Times,
39:42
which of course is Murdoch owned.
39:45
An unknown journalist, Andrew Norfolk, wrote three articles, 2
39:50
about the grooming situation in the north of England, one about
39:54
the foster care situation. But the Cathcart and French
39:59
report found the central allegations to be unfounded and
40:03
that there were serious inaccuracies that the Times has
40:05
never been held accountable for. Now Mike, again, I'm I'm not
40:11
diminishing what is really happening, but why are we being
40:16
pushed to focus on one sector of society?
40:19
Just as in the 70s, as I said, we we were pushed to focus.
40:22
On the issue being from the, the black society, the the black
40:27
communities in the UK. All right, So all the time we're
40:31
being pushed focus on one aspect, which one reduces our
40:36
ability to look at all the other aspects that play into the child
40:40
abuse, child abduction, paedophilia in this country,
40:46
which much of which according to reports before 2011 from people
40:51
like Sonia Paulson, of course originate even in the British
40:55
Parliament. But that's kind of sideline now,
40:57
right? Because the focus is all on on
41:01
on the Asian grimming gangs. I mean for, you know, point out
41:05
if I'm wrong. But what they find?
41:08
Interesting, sorry, is, is how this originated.
41:11
So it originated from within British media and it was then
41:15
amplified and given undue prominence by British media
41:19
despite the inaccuracies and and the unfounded allegations that
41:24
were found in a, in a later report in 2019.
41:27
But that's always the problem. The, the discovery of of
41:32
inaccuracies in these reports and that in these media
41:35
campaigns comes later. So by then the story has
41:39
gathered traction and it's imprinted itself in in people's
41:43
psyche. And therefore it's easy then to
41:46
trigger that reaction against one sector of society because
41:51
it's already been imprinted. I, I want to make a number of
41:54
points on this. The first is that the UK column
41:57
has been heavily criticised by some over the years for trying
42:02
to make exactly the point that you're making there and, and to
42:06
make the point that the child abuse abuse issue is much bigger
42:11
than the Muslim government gang issue.
42:13
And and just to reiterate once again, that's not to in any way
42:22
take away from or diminish the what the people that were
42:26
involved in that experience. The point is just one example of
42:30
of exactly what you're talking about Vanessa.
42:32
The UK does not hold any kind of statistics on the ethnic make up
42:40
of child abusers. They don't do that.
42:42
And yet someone has managed to push to get pull together some
42:46
statistics which claim that the incidence of child abuse is much
42:52
more prevalent amongst the Muslim community than any other
42:56
community in the UK. Now how did they do that when
42:58
there are no statistics? On which to do?
43:00
Statistics, there aren't any. They're not, they're not,
43:03
they're not collected. So, so you of course, you can't
43:05
find them, right? So, so, so that is a narrative
43:08
that has been created from somewhere.
43:10
Now, I don't know where that's come from, but it is a narrative
43:13
that has been created from somewhere.
43:16
And that's just one example. Now, if you are wanting to,
43:22
let's say you're taking a long term view of of something and
43:26
you want to create a particular a particular narrative within
43:33
society in order to drive society in a particular
43:36
direction. One of the things that you might
43:40
do is that you might cause the police or the social services
43:46
departments in particular parts of the country to stand down
43:51
from investigating certain criminal activity and you allow
43:55
that criminal activity to take place with impunity.
43:59
And then you build a narrative which says that that the reason
44:02
that this was allowed to happen was because the people within
44:05
the police or within social services or within the the town
44:08
and city councils, we're scared of being called racist.
44:13
This is this is complete nonsense.
44:14
This is a narrative which has been built in order to actually
44:19
radicalise a section of society, which is the white indigenous,
44:24
if you want to use that term, population against the people
44:28
that were perpetrating these crimes because the crimes were
44:30
not investigated and were not stopped.
44:33
But but the child abuse issue has not been investigated or
44:37
stopped in many other parts of the world where the children
44:41
involved were white children being abused by white adults,
44:45
including, as you've said, white politicians, including a former
44:51
Prime Minister. So you know.
44:55
And, and, and children, if we're talking child abuse, Mike, I, I
44:59
mean the, the entities that the British government has created
45:03
in this region, for example, I mean, if the child abuse is off
45:08
the scale, rape of kids in prisons, rape of prisoners by
45:13
the gods, both female and male, the shooting of kids in the
45:18
genitalia. I mean, the, the list is
45:21
endless. You know, the mass slaughter of
45:24
children in this region for decades now by our governments
45:30
and the child trafficking, of course, that is one of the
45:34
primary harvests of these wars that are created by our ruling
45:39
elites. And not only of course, the
45:42
harvest of children, the harvest of organs, the red market.
45:46
So when we're talking about abuse on an industrial scale,
45:55
that is is coming from within our ruling class, our white
46:01
establishment ruling class. What are the other things that I
46:04
just want to touch on here that we've been talking about for
46:08
many years is the, the psychological operations side of
46:13
things. Because I think this, it's
46:14
important to, to remind everybody that this is a thing.
46:17
Now. I'm really glad to say that it
46:20
was us that originally exposed the behavioural Insights team's
46:28
influence on the Sage Group within government during the
46:34
COVID ocracy, which basically said we've got to start using
46:37
psych, you know, applied psychology to, to make yeah, to,
46:41
to make the, the COVID situation much more fearful for people
46:46
because that's the only way we're going to get them to
46:48
conform to what we want them to conform to.
46:51
We've talked about the Mindspace document talking about people's
46:55
minds being changed on things and people not understanding why
46:58
their minds have been changed or not even being aware that their
47:00
minds have been changed on something.
47:02
So we're talking about an entire infrastructure within the
47:05
British regime, the which has been exported to other parts of
47:09
the world, which is designed to manipulate minds in ways that
47:15
people don't understand. And I think one of the things
47:18
that I find, you know, in a sense most therapeutic about
47:22
what we do, Vanessa, is that I'm able to look at events kind of
47:28
objectively, kind of from as if I'm not part of it.
47:32
I'm sort of looking at it as, as if I'm watching a movie or
47:35
something from a detached perspective.
47:38
And it helps, it helps to try to, it helps to, to, to try to
47:43
identify what is, what is real and what is fake, let's say, or
47:47
what is manipulated and what isn't.
47:49
And, and I think this is something that we need to
47:51
encourage. Part of the problem here is
47:53
that, that, that people are so emotionally attached to, to, to
47:58
their heroes or to their current events that it becomes very
48:02
difficult to, to be objective about what's going on.
48:06
And I'm not in any way saying that, that I'm always right.
48:10
I'm not even saying that I'm never right.
48:11
I'm just, this helps me, I feel helps me deal with current
48:16
events in a way which, which, which is going to result in
48:21
coming to the right conclusions. I think.
48:24
And, and I would just suggest that that maybe that's something
48:30
that people should be encouraged to, to do to take that step
48:34
back. Absolutely a gun people still
48:39
buy into, you know, this kind of saviour complex, whether it's
48:45
holding breaks up as you know, this utopian alternative to USUK
48:53
neo colonialism and and hegemony.
48:58
You know, I would raise questions about that because I
49:01
raise questions about any powerful force.
49:07
Because for me, if if you have power, you have responsibility,
49:12
and if you have responsibility and you're not living up to that
49:15
responsibility, then you should be held to account.
49:20
None of the BRICS countries, for example, are doing taking any
49:25
action to end the genocide in Palestine and Israeli
49:29
expansionism in the region, which of course is leading to
49:33
further slaughter of the people. I suppose with the possible
49:39
exception of South Africa. Yeah, I mean, well South Africa,
49:43
yes have taken and and I'm not including Iran of course either
49:47
because Iran is is in fact Ayatollah Khamenei as we said on
49:51
the news on Wednesday is calling for the quarantine of the entity
49:56
from all non Muslim and Muslim countries.
50:00
So he's been very clear that that it is necessary now to
50:05
economically blockade Israel, diplomatically blockade Israel
50:10
until the genocide is is stuck. And people have said to me,
50:14
yeah, well, you know, if they do that, then the West will just
50:16
step in. Fine.
50:17
Let the West step in because they haven't got the resources
50:22
to be able to keep Israel afloat while they're starting and
50:25
igniting all of these other perpetual wars like in Latin
50:29
America, maintaining it in Ukraine.
50:32
Let them step in. Great.
50:35
Because you know, sorry that that will be the end of support
50:39
for Zionism. Hopefully.
50:41
It might take time, but but the fact is that yes, South Africa
50:46
has stepped up and brought the case to the ICJ, but they
50:51
haven't ended trade. There are still elements within
50:55
South Africa that are supplying weapons that are connected to
50:58
the States, right? I'm not saying that they're the
51:02
worst of it. I mean, certainly China is
51:05
expanding its trade. You know, I'm not going to get
51:07
too far down this discussion because that's for another day.
51:12
But I think my point is we shouldn't be looking for someone
51:17
else to come in and save us or another entity to come in and
51:20
change the the global paradigm that we're living in right now,
51:24
where humanity is effectively under threat, where, you know,
51:30
even what's happening in Palestine is a psychological war
51:34
because we're effectively being driven to believe that we're
51:39
helpless, we're powerless. And, and that's a very important
51:43
factor in, in what is being done to humanity and populations
51:48
globally is this sense of learned helplessness where we
51:53
look around and nobody's really doing anything.
51:56
And bricks plays into that. Because if BRICS were were to
51:59
step up, for example, if Russia and China and India were to cut
52:03
all trade with Israel, that would have a domino effect.
52:09
But right now we're, we're all existing within this learned
52:14
helpless bubble. And only the very few are, are
52:18
taking action against that, like Palestine action in the UK,
52:23
those that are supporting them and being arrested for, for
52:26
their trouble. But it's still a minority, Mike.
52:29
And we know this, you know, but so, so I think what, what people
52:34
and, and I've had to kind of learn this myself, just as you
52:39
have to detach from these situations.
52:42
And it's very difficult. I'm, I'm living here.
52:44
I'm seeing it on a daily basis. I'm hearing it on a daily basis.
52:49
I'm hearing from friends in Syria that Jolani's forces are
52:53
about to do a sweep of the area they're living in, for example,
52:56
which could mean their imprisonment, it could mean
52:59
their execution, it could mean their eviction from their homes
53:03
and and the resettlement of check for your elements.
53:05
So we're living through it on on a daily basis here, but.
53:09
Do you think, do you think that that that makes it
53:13
understandable that that people are so easily jumping on the
53:18
likes of the Tommy Robinson bandwagon?
53:21
I don't know because for me the, you know, the whole Tommy
53:27
Robinson, even Nigel Farage is in my opinion, based on racism.
53:36
So is it triggering something that is subliminally prevalent
53:42
in society? I'm asking the question, right?
53:48
There is potential for that. You know, we, we saw a degree of
53:52
racism at the beginning of the Russian special military
53:55
operation when when people were effectively saying, yeah, we'll
53:58
help Ukrainians because they look like us, right?
54:03
And then the effectively the racism against Russia.
54:06
I mean, I was shocked by the level of vitriol from people in
54:11
Britain against Russians, right? You know, Russians themselves
54:16
were, were being targeted even though they lived in the UK for
54:20
years or worked in the UK for years.
54:23
We saw this, right. So I guess it is something that
54:28
exists in all society. And at some point, yes, it can
54:32
be triggered. I, you know, I'm not going to
54:34
say that that Syria is holier than thou kind of thing.
54:38
There are elements within Syria that have been triggered by the
54:42
Jolani takeover into becoming racist and sectarian and being
54:47
weaponized against the minorities.
54:48
It happens, and I think it happens in every single society.
54:53
So I think it's a combination. I think there may be an element
54:56
of that. And then there is an element of
54:58
people saying that they're defending British culture,
55:06
History, Society, which is understandable to a degree
55:11
because as we've talked about it UK column, it is under attack,
55:14
right. But just as in Syria, where
55:18
Syrian society is inclusive, that is what Syrian society is.
55:23
That is what Syrian culture is throughout history.
55:26
It's accepted refugees from Palestine, from Iraq and absorb
55:30
them into its society in in a very embracing way.
55:37
That's also what British society should be, isn't it?
55:40
We should be embracing of the device the the diverse
55:44
communities, 3rd 4th generation immigrants into Britain who have
55:49
been absorbed into British society and have contributed to
55:52
British society. Yeah, I don't have any issue
55:54
with that. I think, I think I, I think I, I
55:58
take your point about the, the racist aspect of of some of the,
56:04
the major commentators and, and influencers.
56:07
And, and there may be some of that amongst the, the general.
56:11
But I think, I think personally, I think the the majority of
56:16
people that are, are getting on to this are doing so partly from
56:22
fear that their, that their future is not, is no longer and
56:26
existing as a, as a, as the country that they knew.
56:29
But, but even there, I'm not convinced that that most people
56:33
even know what their country was or should be.
56:37
I think there isn't, I think there isn't a, a strong view of
56:42
what even it is to be British. I think if you, if you ask the
56:45
average person, what does it mean to be English, I'm not sure
56:49
that they necessarily would come up with a terribly coherent
56:52
answer. I, I think, I think a part of
56:56
the problem, you know, you've touched on this in the course of
56:59
this conversation. Part of the problem here has
57:02
been that British culture has been weak for a long time.
57:07
It has, as you said earlier, it has been absolutely decimated by
57:11
the, the, the attack on the family, on the, the attack on,
57:15
yeah, our culture and our minds and so on community we talk
57:20
about. Religion, but effectively it's
57:22
community. The the effect of, of migration
57:27
on the British people would not have been anywhere near as, as
57:33
overt if, if people, if, if the, if the culture hadn't been weak
57:38
in the 1st place. And you know, I have to, I'll
57:40
just mention this because it's something that that drives me
57:43
nuts whenever there's a big outcry about, for example, a, a,
57:49
a Christian Church being turned into a mosque.
57:51
And this happens from time to time and, and there's this huge
57:56
outcry about it. And I'm thinking, well, hold on
57:58
a second, why was the church empty?
58:01
They didn't, they didn't come and kick everybody out.
58:03
The church was empty. The church is empty because
58:06
because people in Britain have abandoned their faith.
58:10
Now, I'm personally not an active Christian.
58:13
I'm not a Christian, but you know, and so I'm not that.
58:16
But I'm also not complaining if a, if a church has been turned
58:18
into a mosque, it's, it's got to be if you're going to, if you're
58:22
going to say that this can't happen, that it's an undermining
58:25
of, of the, the traditional values of the country, you've
58:28
got to have some traditional values, you know, and, and, and,
58:32
and people have lost those a long time ago.
58:35
So this was the cultural aspect of this is something that that
58:38
has has already happened. And I'm not, I mean, I, well,
58:44
no, I am sure that that looking at Tommy Robinson is not going
58:50
to be the way to fix that problem.
58:52
That's for certain, right? That, that right.
58:55
So, so that's an issue. I, I think that, well, I'm going
59:03
to be very interested to see what happens over the coming,
59:06
coming days. But what I'm just going to say
59:07
here is that, that I'm looking around at the flags that are up
59:13
on flag poles at the, at the, the crosses, the, the red
59:16
crosses have been drawn in every, you know, many roundabout
59:20
in the country and so on. And I'm looking at this and I'm
59:23
saying this looks very like Northern Ireland, right?
59:27
Because Northern Ireland still, even though 1998 was when the,
59:31
the sectarianism was supposed to have finished in that country.
59:35
And still today, there are flags up in every flagpole.
59:39
And the country is as divided as it's ever been, right?
59:43
So, and I'm starting to see England turning into the same
59:47
type of thing. Now.
59:49
This is this is just, this is just not good.
59:52
And and, you know, we can celebrate, we can celebrate
59:57
culture. We can celebrate the country in
59:59
other ways. People, those people will
1:00:02
sometimes say, well, you know, in, in other countries, people
1:00:05
fly their flags all the time. Yes, they do.
1:00:07
And they've always done. But it, it has never been
1:00:10
weaponized in the way that this, and this is the key thing.
1:00:13
I think it's the way things have been weaponized.
1:00:17
You know, Brexit was weaponized to divide, COVID was weaponized
1:00:21
to divide, migration has been weaponized to divide and
1:00:26
information has been weaponized to divide.
1:00:29
And this is this I think is something that we've we have to
1:00:33
get to grips with. Now the flag is being weaponized
1:00:36
to divide. And it's kind of interesting
1:00:39
because I mean, the first thing that comes into my mind is, is
1:00:42
the crusader mentality again, you know, which of course,
1:00:49
Zionism is very much a part of. It's the new Crusader movement
1:00:53
to effectively colonise this region, West Asia.
1:00:59
But then I'm also seeing it appear in in this guise and, you
1:01:04
know, to come back to Saint George.
1:01:05
I mean, I don't know why people would feel offended by that.
1:01:11
When I was in the Christian Orthodox towns that were under
1:01:14
attack from the new Crusader movement led by Saudi Arabia
1:01:20
and, and the Gulf States and, and Israel, many of the icons
1:01:25
were of Saint George and the Dragon, right?
1:01:29
So it is, it is a regional symbol of resistance.
1:01:34
And, and I, I don't think that should be offensive to anyone.
1:01:38
Surely that should be something that should unite us, shouldn't
1:01:41
it? And this is my problem is, is
1:01:43
like we, we're so fast to claim ownership and to partition and
1:01:50
to become jingoistic in in our ideology and our mentality.
1:01:55
Instead of understanding that this is a war against humanity
1:01:58
and we're an integral part of humanity.
1:02:02
Why are we trying to separate ourselves from that?
1:02:05
Because the only way that this war against the transnational
1:02:09
ruling elite and billionaire class and the oligarchy is ever
1:02:13
going to be win is by 1. Maintaining our humanity and
1:02:16
compassion and sense of justice and integrity and dignity.
1:02:21
And by understanding the only way we can win it is by uniting
1:02:25
as humanity against the savagery and the violence that is being
1:02:30
perpetrated by those that are ruling over us, whether it's in
1:02:34
our own government or in the allies of our own government.
1:02:37
We're we're pretty much out of time now.
1:02:40
Just what are closing thoughts on this?
1:02:42
What, what? What comes next?
1:02:44
Look, I just think as human beings, the only way that we're
1:02:49
going to win this war is by, rather than burning bridges,
1:02:53
creating them and by actually reaching out to the communities
1:02:58
that we're allowing ourselves to effectively criminalise and
1:03:03
demonise. You know, today it's the
1:03:07
Muslims. What's it going to be tomorrow?
1:03:10
Is it going to be the Christians?
1:03:11
Maybe is it going to be, you know, history teaches us we just
1:03:17
get manipulated from from one area of division to another.
1:03:22
And the only way that you break that division is by actually
1:03:25
remembering this person is my neighbour.
1:03:28
This person is a member of my family, this person is a member
1:03:31
of my community. And rebuilding those
1:03:33
communities, those links, those bridges, instead of rejecting
1:03:37
them, instead of partitioning them, instead of blockading them
1:03:40
basically, and creating further division, further partitions,
1:03:45
further separation, further segregation.
1:03:49
We should be working to reduce the divides and rebuild our
1:03:57
society, which isn't necessarily going to be the society that we
1:04:00
think it is. I mean, I, I would like to
1:04:03
actually hear from people what they think British society
1:04:06
should be because I'm quite interested in that.
1:04:10
For me, when I was growing up, it was the kindness, the
1:04:12
compassion. If I fell over in the streets,
1:04:15
someone was going to pick me up, right?
1:04:18
That's what the humour, those were the things that that
1:04:22
represented Britain to me. And over time that has been
1:04:27
lost. We've become driven by fear to
1:04:31
not go to the aid of someone in case that person is going to
1:04:36
commit a crime against us. And, and society, you know, the
1:04:40
government, media and so on is, is, has been creating that
1:04:46
separation from what made us the inclusive, generous society that
1:04:53
we were. And I will say one thing,
1:04:57
despite all of the ravages of this region, you still find that
1:05:01
hospitality, generosity and kindness within society here on
1:05:05
a scale that that is unimaginable considering what is
1:05:09
going on. And so we're also capable of of
1:05:14
holding on and retaining those values that made us, made
1:05:19
Britain, what it was. OK.
1:05:21
Thank you, Vanessa. Let's leave that for today.
1:05:23
That's been an interesting, hugely interesting conversation.
1:05:26
We'll we'll do this again soon.