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Bill Burke: The Bold Optimist’s Playbook- Why Believing in Tomorrow Changes Today · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: My name is Leigh Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Every week, we'll hear from someone who has taken a leap or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Whether they face challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be freed.
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: Today we have Bill Burke.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Bill founded the Optimism Institute in 2022.
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: After an extensive media and sports career as an executive writer and producer, bill served as the CEO of the Weather Channel Companies and several years at Time Warner Turner Broadcasting System, where he was the founding general manager of Turner Classic Movies, before going on to become president of TBS.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: Additionally, for 15 years, he was the co-owner and chairman of the Portland Seadogs, a double A minor league baseball affiliate of the Boston Red Sox.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: As a writer, bill co-authored Ted Turner's top 10 New York Times bestselling autobiography Call Me Ted, and later co-wrote and produced and directed Live Another Day, an award-winning feature-length documentary on the bailout of the US auto industry.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Bill is a lifelong optimist.
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: He has to be.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: He's a Detroit Lions fan although they're pretty good and launched the Optimism Institute with a mission to inspire people with an optimistic, hopeful vision of the world and its future.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: So great to have you, bill Lee.
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: It's great to be here.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: I appreciate the opportunity.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so we've had a little bit of time for me to share some of the bold moves that I've made in my bold journey.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: But I'm really excited to jump into your definition of bold and your journey.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: How would you define bold?
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: You know it's funny, lee.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: You're the first person who's ever asked me that, so I tried to stay away from the dictionary.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, good, yeah, no cheating.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: A bold action is one you take knowing that there's risk, but it's well-intended, I think, for me.
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: You know you're doing something bold for a better outcome.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah for good, for change, for improvement.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: And the outcome is uncertain when you take it on.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: If it's a certain outcome, it's not particularly bold.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure.
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's not known.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Nothing's guaranteed, right?
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: I know, as I work with different organizations and individuals.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I just want it to be guaranteed and it just can't be Like it's guaranteed.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: You're going to learn something, that's for sure, but outside of that, I can't tell you it's going to work.
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: But knowing what your next step is is so important.
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: So, when you think about your bold journey and your definition of bold, when was a time in your life that you live aligned with that?
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: So you did it anyway, even though it had risk and it wasn't guaranteed.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a few I think of.
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: But I had the great good fortune of working at Turner Broadcasting during a really fun time in that company's history and left the company and was thinking about writing and teaching and I wrote this article about leadership lessons I learned from Ted Turner because he was my boss's boss, and it was like 25 pages.
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: It was too long for a magazine, but my wife's, like you, got to send it to Ted and my father-in-law finds it.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: You got to send it to Ted, so I did, and within about five minutes a secretary called and Ted got on the phone.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: He said this is great.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: You've captured me better than anyone.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: I want you to write my biography.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: So, ted, it's a page article.
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: It's the longest thing I've ever written.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: He said, yeah, but you'd be great.
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: And so within about a week I went through these gyrations of trying to figure it out and I said yes to being his ghostwriter when I'd never I didn't even write a thesis in college, and so it was certainly uncertain.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: It was not something I'd ever done and it was going to be a very high profile advance and everyone I ever worked with was going to read it.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: But I thought, with my wife's encouragement too.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: It's like you got to do this.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: You love Ted, and so I went for it.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: And the whole process was difficult.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: We'd talk to agents and they'd say, oh, this is a great opportunity, but this guy's not going to write it about me.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: And luckily, the person representing Ted understood Ted well enough.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: He's like well, ted wants Bill to do it, so he's going to be the guy to do it.
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, ultimately that's Ted's decision, right.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: I mean it was a.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: It was kind of a high wire act and a ton of work.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: You've written a book I mean it about this question.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: So you said yes to the unknown.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: You said yes to risk and exposure and vulnerability too.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: So what do you think holds people back from saying yes?
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of times it's fear of how others are going to perceive you and what you've done.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: Be misunderstood or.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Understood and questioned.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I made a big career decision a long time ago to leave a fancy job and move to Maine and you know, I know people thought I was nuts.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Or I must be sick, you know, or I must be what's wrong with you?
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: You know, I definitely had that when I left Duke and came to New Hampshire, Like why would you leave?
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I, and, and I would.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: I'd feel good about it.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: But then I'd read a trade magazine about someone who just got this promotion and said, ooh, I could have done that.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: And I say, well, no, that's not what I wanted to do.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: So I think and I've gotten better as I've gotten older not worrying as much about what other people think an easy thing to do I think it traps a lot of people from making decisions that in their heart, they're worried about jumping that hurdle of other people's expectations or opinions.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's definitely a bold move when you create your path and you do it in a way that easily could be misunderstood, like when I left my role.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: I didn't have a plan, I just knew I needed to choose myself.
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Definitely misunderstood in the sense of, like you know, some people thought I was crazy or some people thought you know what's wrong with me, like you said, and it was more so like I had to choose my health, my family, my relationships.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: It was just so misaligned right.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Some of it comes from that.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: I don't advise this to anyone.
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: I just hope that my story helps people see some of the signs sooner so they don't have to do those types of things.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: So, when you think about kind of your journey, you've been in baseball in a sense of you know, be part of a team that's part of the lower league for the Red Sox.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: You've written a memoir for Ted Turner.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: You've created your own podcast.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: You've created opportunities for other people to share their stories and you focused in on optimism.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: People to share their stories and you focused in on optimism.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: How did you go from where you started, even to where you are now, with the sense of like, knowing that you wanted to hone in on specifically the good side, the optimist, the things that could work.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the things I've tried to work on since I left.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I had a very front loaded career, so I had big, fancy media jobs at very young ages and sort of had my dream job when I was 29 years old.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: So it was always your goal to be in media and being at Turner Broadcasting.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: You know like at such an optimal time, you know sense of what they did and you know what they did with Time Warner.
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: Just a phenomenal career.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, I was raising a young family with my wife and the hours were getting nutty and a lot of the people I was working with I didn't have that much respect for and I could very clearly see, if I stay at this company, this is what my life's going to be like.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: So I made the tough decision to just leave the company and try these other things.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: So you felt misaligned.
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: So you felt that misalignment.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: That took me a while to see, but you felt it and you did something about it.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: I felt it.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: I was lucky and I don't even know where a lot of it came from my dad.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: My dad was a very successful business person, but he made it home for dinner every night and that was a priority and my thing was always I'd rather have Ted Turner fire me than my wife leave me.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: I like that yeah.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: And I got to the point not that my wife was threatening to leave me, but I was like I am not going to be home for dinner, I am not going to be home much, stay in this job.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: So then what happened was I started pursuing these different things and more creative pursuits, and that's where I think I realized that's a lot of what makes me tick.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: When I was in executive positions, my favorite part was working with the creative team or reading a script for a movie we might make and that sort of stuff, and so I'm more aligned now and then to make an already long answer longer.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: My wife and I spent a year in an academic fellowship in 2022 that was designed to help people later in their careers think about more social impact ventures that they might take on, and I developed a love for storytelling, interviewing.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: In addition to the book, I co-produced and directed and wrote a documentary film and just love that process.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: And in this program, we did a three-day session on global mental health and it was heavy subjects, you know, suicide and depression and things are happening all over the world but the person who was leading it presented things with such a solutions orientation and so much optimism and this is a really tough thing.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: But here's what's working in our program in Africa or here's what could really turn the dial here in the US, and we all sort of floated out of there like, wow, we could do this.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: So I had a break between semesters and this started floating around in my head.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: I was like it was his optimism and then I realized that's always been sort of part of my outlook and I thought, okay, I can storytell through a podcast, I can do positive social media, I can do public speaking on the subject.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: I love to do public speaking.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: So I put together this plan very tongue in cheek, googled different names and came up with the optimisminstitutecom because the URL was available.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: I'm the entire institute, so it's very much a tongue in cheek name and I started, I kicked off with my first set of podcasts in March of 23.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: And it's been an incredible experience, really reinforcing these ideas that I have.
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: I've met amazing people.
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have met you without this.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: It's really opened up a lot of doors to me and it's been a terrific experience.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: So why optimism?
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: Why are you drawn to it and how do you define it?
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Because it can get, I think, a bad rap like toxic positivity, and I know you're not talking about just being positive for positive sake and ignoring the things that aren't going.
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: So I would love to hear your definition and then why you were drawn to it.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, OK.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: So I've gone around and I've settled on.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: An optimist believes that tomorrow will be better than today and that they have a role to play in making it so.
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: Okay, I like that, so it's active.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: The second part of that is very important to me because one of the when people hear optimism, you're an optimist, so you just sit around and things are just going to get better and you twiddle your thumbs and you're naive, all that stuff and I actually believe and I've learned a lot of this from people I've talked to and read it's actually pessimism that leads to inaction and apathy.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: Because if all's lost, why bother?
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: If it's too late to address climate change, keep driving the huge car, and why bother?
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: And one of the things I saw are my young kids that I referred to before are now 28 and 31 and having peers of theirs say, well, why should I have children if the world's going to end in 30 years Because of climate change?
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: And I thought, boy, if we get to the point where we think it's over with climate change or there's plenty of good reasons not to have children, I'm not questioning that decision, but if there's an assumption that the world's going to end in 30 years, why bother?
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: And so I thought this is important and I've watched young people get understandably disaffected from government and politics and they don't trust business people and they don't trust and this sense of we can't do it.
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: To me, that kind of pessimism is the only thing that can stop the historic improvement of the human species that has been going on for thousands of years.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: We have made so many strides over time because people stayed optimistic.
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: They thought they could help make tomorrow better than today and they did something about it.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: That's where I thought this isn't just sort of resonant with me.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: I think this is actually a really important issue at this time in our history.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: And yeah, so that's how it all came about and how I think about it.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so did you grow up an optimist.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: So it's funny you asked me that, because I get asked that a lot and I had these memories of the angsty teenager and my dad could be really difficult and strict and I remember thinking, oh, all these people always say they had a happy childhood, mine wasn't so easy and literally about 18 months ago we were moving my mom into assisted living and my sister was going through her stuff and she found my high school senior yearbook, which I just didn't have a copy of.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: Isn't that the year you graduate, she hands it to me?
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: And of course I flipped to the back and we had the most likely to best this, that class optimist, that most likely to best this, that class optimist that's what you were, me and Maura Quinlan and I thought A why did we even have that as a category?
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: B I have no memory of this.
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: I literally got like goosebumps.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: That is weird.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: That is wild.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: So there it was about me 40 years ago.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: I have always my mom is definitely an optimist.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Okay, so it comes from some space in your life there.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: Dad was.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: You know, I think, and you've done this, I think.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: One of the things I like to say is that not every optimist is an entrepreneur.
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: Every entrepreneur has to be an optimist 100%.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Exactly so.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: I watched my dad help build a company.
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: I watched Ted Turner talk about bold.
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: I just thought that sense of optimism is so vital.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I think it's always been there and validated by my classmates in 1984.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's also aligned with, I think, some of the passions that you have, so obviously, being a creative, you know, or being around creative within a broadcasting company in a system that is all about the creative endeavors of film and press and books and all the things that can be created through that.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: That's one space, because not everything hits, not everything that you create people love and can be misunderstood.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: So it's kind of analogous with bold moves.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: Right, I'm sure there were some bold moves at TBS that you made that you've learned from or you learned, you know, if it doesn't work, we'll figure it out.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Right, you know money is invested.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Then you went, you know, to double a minor league baseball.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so talk about, you know, an optimism.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: That fell in my lap and I was a little self-conscious because my late father founded the team in the early 90s.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: OK.
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: I had no designs on ever getting involved, other than as a fan which I was a big fan and I love baseball and I go to a lot of games.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: And then we were living in Maine for other reasons.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: The team's in Maine it's Portland, seadogs, red Sox, aa and my dad's health declined and he had dementia and I sort of, behind the scenes, started filling his role as the chairman without people knowing and then when it became very visible that he was not involved, we named me chairman and then when my dad passed away, it was official.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: So I wound up about 15 years in that role and so I oversaw the general manager, the president of the team, who really did all the work.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: I would oversee him, my sister and I, and I would work on budgets with him and I would interface with the Red Sox and make sure that relationship was good.
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: But it was not a full-time job.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: But being around baseball and minor league baseball.
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of mythology about baseball.
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it's overblown, but a lot of it is true.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: It's a game of failure.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Hitters make it out seven times out of 10.
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Talk about having to be bold.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: You are standing there at the plate In our case, 7,600 people are staring at you or you're the pitcher on the mound.
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: You are there all by yourself.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: It's a team sport, but very individual and watching these young, incredible athletes.
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: If you make it to double A baseball, you're a phenomenal baseball player, but there's probably about a 15% chance you'll spend a day in the majors and they're and they're very underpaid, you know.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: So talk about this like dream that these guys have and this optimism they need when they go 0 for 10.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: And so just being around that I think there's a there's a whole lot of optimism and and it's a tough business you do everything right.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: You get ready for opening day and, in the case of Maine, it snows Truly.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: We've had snow outs, we've had snow outs, we've had.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: So things go wrong.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: The lights blow or things happen.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: Someone falls and breaks their leg in the concourse and stuff's happening.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: So it takes some resilience and it's a long season.
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: They play 142 games and we have 71 home games.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: That's a lot of events, but I loved it.
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: We wound up selling the team.
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: It's a long story, but there's a company that owns 40 of the 120 minor league teams now same company.
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: We sold to them, but it was an amazing experience.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: I'm so glad for the opportunity, and it was part of trying to uphold my dad's legacy of creating this incredible asset for the people of Maine and New England, and so that was a great experience.
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: And it lives on right.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: I think in the sense of optimism, in the sense of what you took away from it've highlighted a few of the things, which is you know you're going to strike out and not get a hit, or you know more than you are going to get on base.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: You have eyes on you as an individual such an important part but you're part of a team.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: And I think, in the sense of being bold, I think there's some of the boldest people because they're going after their passion.
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: They're really good at what they do but they get treated like they're the lowest level, but you're really the highest level of capability.
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: The competition is just so high at that level.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: So when you think of this, those things I mean to me that almost sounds like also a corporate career, or how you work as an artist, or what you do as a musician.
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: You know like you're going after it, no matter what right.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: And going back to your, your definition to you could be misunderstood or maybe it's not what people think you should be doing.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: When someone's like with your experience and you're speaking and all the things that you've done around particular optimism, how does someone begin to pick themselves up and feel like tomorrow is going to be better, like how do the?
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: It's not an instantaneous thing, you know.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: I know that it's important to grieve, whether it's your dream, maybe passing, or in the sense of what you thought was is not, and or what you thought was the truth is really not.
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: In those sense, how does someone work towards that?
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: What's a process that you've come up with or something that you've created for people to think through when it's hard to think about.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: How could tomorrow be better?
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Right, yeah, I'm glad you said a few of the things you said, including taking the time to grieve, whatever that grief is.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: When I lost my father, some of the best advice I got was just take time to grieve.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: And when people say, oh, come on, are you coming to work next week?
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: It's like, well, everybody deals with it differently, so I don't want to tell people how to handle them.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: But how do we think about tomorrow could be better, when something pretty heavy has happened?
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: I've come to believe that there's a very tight connection between gratitude and optimism.
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, and the way I think about it is, if you can be grateful for things that have happened to you in the past and or the good things that are happening to you now, it sets you up to believe that more good things could happen in the future, okay.
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: So again, you know that period of grief and you know you've had this terrible injury, but you know this won't apply to everyone listening.
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: But I'm just giving you, you know, but my wife still me and I got four dogs to come home to, like you do, or I've got you start adding those things up and it's like, okay, this is a really tough setback, but here's the mountain of things that I can be grateful for.
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: There's so many things that we take for granted that we can start adding up and being grateful for.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: I think once you're shored up with that, it's like, okay, I can't do X anymore, but I'm also good at ABC over here and maybe there's a way to.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: And I think building back with gratitude is a really important part of the process and again, when you're in the depths, it's hard to see any of that and you've got to work that out.
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's hard for most people, if they're honest with themselves, to come up with a pretty decent list of things that they could be grateful for.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: That'll springboard them into whatever is next for them.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so we talked a little bit about the framework before we started.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: But believe, own, learn, design, and so that is the bold framework.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: So when you think about belief and optimism and ownership and optimism, I think you know where we've talked just a few minutes ago.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: I think we're talking about.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: You know your belief, whether it's belief in yourself, belief in the future, belief in what you're capable of, right, there are things that I think come into play and then your definition is really about owning it, taking action with intention, right.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: So when you think about your own belief in ownership, how have you used that to help really fuel your optimism or fuel your possibilities in your journey?
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: Because you've had such a wonderful array of experiences, I feel like some curiosity is in there and I feel like you've done some things, possibly when people didn't get why you were doing it, like you know, quitting your job.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: I'd love to hear some of your highlights of belief and ownership where you took the reins and maybe you were saying to yourself I think I can, I think I can, I know I can, I know I can.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: What were those moments for you?
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, I'm wildly fortunate.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: So I get a little self-conscious sometimes when people say, of course you're optimistic, you've had these privileges, which I absolutely have.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: So when I was put in charge of TBS Superstation at the age of 29, and there were at the time is the number one rated cable channel, most watched cable channel in the country.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: And how did you get there, like no one handed that to you.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I grew up around the business so I was kind of an idiot savant about television.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: OK, you were just immersed in it.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had a fancy MBA and then I I lucked into writing the business plan for what became Turner Classic Movies.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: So I was the founding general manager of Turner Classic Movies when I was 26, 27.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: And that lives on.
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and then they just sort of liked what I was doing.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: It was a very young company.
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: A lot of the executives were quite young and at that time that was kind of a thing.
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: We used to joke that Ted could save money by putting young people in these jobs.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: Very fancy person from New York to come to Atlanta.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: So I think and I tried to treat people well.
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: So I think in general people were kind of rooting for me.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: I wasn't a shark.
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: I didn't sit there and say, gee, I want that job.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: By the time I I went to my boss and after a weekend I said, scott, are you really sure you want me to do this, because I don't have to do this?
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: He's like, no, you're going to do this.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: So it wasn't like I had the knives out.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: So I think that's helped.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: I think that you said curiosity and I'm glad you did, because it hasn't come up yet.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: I am a really curious person, just in general.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: I love learning.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: Really curious person, just in general.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: I love learning.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: One of the joys of doing this podcast is one of the things I try to do is interview people working on the very things that make us pessimistic a sense of possibility, optimism, hope.
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: So I'm talking to people about climate change.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: This afternoon I'm going to interview a former astronaut.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: I read her book and it was fascinating about her training to be an astronaut.
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: I can't get enough of learning about different things.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: It's funny it was after my 50th episode.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: It was my 50th episode where my guest, kelly Corrigan you may have heard of, is a great writer and I said she has a show called Kelly Corrigan Wonders and so it's all about curiosity.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: I realized the 50 people I interviewed just about all of them had this streak of curiosity or some sort of lifelong learning ethos.
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: And I said to her I was like why would that be for all these people I have on an optimism podcast?
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: And she's like it's kind of obvious to her.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: She's like, well, that's a very optimistic position to take.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: If you think there's always more to learn, there's always more interesting people to meet, there's always more to discover.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: That gets you out of bed in the morning, it can make you more optimistic.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: So curiosity for me has been a huge.
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: What would it be like?
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I always I was around movie making the guy I made the movie with and I was like I've always wanted to sit in a theater and watch a movie that I made and we were able to do that Didn't make it.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: We actually lost a ton of money.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: It was many measures of failure.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: We did win a small of small film festival, but I got to sit at theater and I'll never forget I was sitting next to my partner who made it with me, and there was a point in the thing where it was supposed to be funny and the audience laughed and we looked at each other like that was really cool, you know.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: So that sort of curiosity and desire to try new things has been a huge part of what's helped me feel fulfilled.
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: I've scratched the itch of making a movie that I could watch in a theater with a bunch of patrons.
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: I did that.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: Okay, check the box on that one.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, when you think about, you know, creating the podcast, which you know the intention of it was really, like you said, to give hope and to allow people a platform to talk about what's possible, right?
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Do you think the world needs a realist and a pessimist and an optimist, or do you think we should all be optimists?
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: That's a great question.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: I think all of us should have a dose of realism and I've talked to people about this, especially in sort of corporate settings, leadership settings.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: If you were taking investors in your company and you said in five years, our market cap is going to be bigger than NVIDIA's, that's just not realistic, no offense.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: So there's always a bit of realism.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: I don't think there's a lot of place to be perfectly honest with pessimism.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: I think we're all going to be on a spectrum of positivity, negativity.
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: I think it's okay to be skeptical.
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: I think it's okay questioning, but to just oh, that'll never happen, that'll never work.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Kind of the Oscar, the grouch, like he keeps coming up at my head as we're talking.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Like I see him in his trash.
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: Can I see him like with the total negative you know of, like everything.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: Like he is the for me, I guess growing up, I guess gave my age away, but the proverbial pessimist, right yeah.
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: I interviewed and I've come to know a little bit Burt Jacobs, who, with his brother, founded Life is Good, carol.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: It's all about optimism.
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: And he said I love to challenge people.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: Bring me the list of history's great pessimists.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: He also said Realism lacks imagination.
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: He's much harder on realism than I am, and it's optimists who have the imagination.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: It's optimists who lead.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: No one's going to follow a leader who says follow me, I'll take you someplace worse.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: You have to infuse people with a sense that tomorrow could be better than today and we're going to play a role in making it.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: So I don't think they're always going to be pessimists.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: I'm a realist about that, but I'm not sure I could come up with a lot of positives.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Of why we need them.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think realism is actually woven into your definition in the sense of it's almost like we recognize today is not what we wanted it to be, or maybe not as good as it could be or optimal, or maybe it was a good day and even tomorrow can be better, like there's a whole continuum of that.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: I think there's a continuum of boldness, from very quiet boldness to loud, right like me.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Quitting my job was a loud moment, me how I talk to myself and how I pull my bootstraps up and get at it like that's more quiet and not any social posts, but it's still bold.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: So like being an optimist too, I'm assuming, has some loud moments that people see and a heck of a lot of quiet ones, would you agree?
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: The quiet ones, for me, are just observing people as I walk.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: I'm living in New York city now.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: I walk a lot, I keep the earbuds out and I observe and I try to catch people being good and I see all this goodness all over the place.
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: And one of my favorite lines from a guy named Kevin Kelly who was on my show.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: He said if you only read the news, you'll think things have never been worse, but if you read history, you'll realize things have never been better.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: I am also a history buff.
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: It's part of my curiosity, and one of the bold things I do is I will repeatedly say this has never been a better time to be alive than today in human history.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: You'll say how could you say that we have climate change, we have political division, we have this, that and the other thing, and we lose that historical perspective at our peril, I think because understanding the progress that we've made in time since then is really important and it worries me.
• 27:37
  Speaker 2: So I say that I've got an episode coming out in a couple of weeks where it's me for 10 minutes walking through data that supports the idea that this is the greatest time ever to be alive, and it's me for 10 minutes walking through data that supports the idea this is the greatest time ever to be alive, and it's things like longevity and child mortality and tolerance and all these things that have inexorably moved forward, and I probably shouldn't say inexorably.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: I think it's because of the work of optimists voted and marched, and scientists who discovered vaccines, and people who worked to end apartheid in South Africa and leaders who ended the Cold War and scientists who figure out how to slow the spread of AIDS and all these problems I had when I was growing up.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: It wasn't a bunch of people sitting around being optimistic and twiddling their thumbs.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: They got out and did something about it and where I try to encourage young people say hey, you guys are next in line for takeoff.
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: You know we left you with a bunch of messes, but welcome to the club.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: That happens to every generation.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: Right, your turn, yeah.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: So a couple ingredients to optimism, then.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: So, like, this is what I'm hearing.
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: So, obviously, action, which I always, always want to underscore because I think people have a role in their own lives, in the lives of others.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: This is, you know, you are affecting other people by just being here, but first start with yourself.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Like, be responsible for your own action.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Invite others to be accountable right, we can't make them, but take action with yourself.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: Perspective was something you just talked about, so you can see the glass empty or the glass full.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: It doesn't mean you don't see the things that made it, you know, half full, but it just means that you see it more as a positive.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: It's better than starting with an empty glass.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: And, by the way, on that I like to say too that an optimist would enjoy the glass and then go refill it.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, so it's also your perspective of how you're seeing things.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: So that lens you have on life, right?
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: Yes, and I think that lens is really important because one of the biggest challenges I think we all have to stay positive or optimistic is the act of comparison.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: We've yet to talk about social media it's always on the Blue Sky podcast bingo card because it usually comes up in one way or another but I think that my view is that social media didn't create a lot of new problems, but it threw gas on a couple of them, in my view.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: And this ability to constantly compare yourself Like they say, you're comparing your insides to everyone else's outsides right, the way you feel, and I see it with young people.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: You know you work really hard to get into college, you have a bad week, you go on social media and your friends at a different college are all having a great time.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: So you pick the wrong college and you get sadder and you compare.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: And you, you know and I've seen it working with uber wealthy people like Ted Turner.
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: Well, you know he's worth 2 billion, but Bill Gates is worth 30.
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: You know it's just.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: This comparison game, even at the highest levels, is really unhealthy.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: The comparisons I like to think about is again you know living conditions today versus a hundred years ago.
• 30:24
  Speaker 2: You know John D Rockefeller didn't have air conditioning.
• 30:27
  Speaker 2: Clean water has not always been a given.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: Hot showers are, in the last, like 70 years, 60 years, Things that we don't even think about.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: Flip a switch and the light comes on, those would definitely be.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Clean water and hot showers would definitely be on my list of things to be grateful for.
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: Even, I think, starting with ourselves and that's what I mean like wow, like that didn't go like I thought it would, or maybe you're thinking something wasn't as good as it was or you could have done better, but then you reflect or you ask for feedback.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: That was something we just talked about and I'm leading a mastermind.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: It was like someone can really like be really hard on themselves or speak to themselves, not give themselves grace.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: So when in doubt this was a mantra of like when in doubt, ask for feedback.
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: But I think understanding that being optimistic or seeing the good or seeing the possible doesn't mean you're even striving for perfection.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: You're just striving for better.
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: Exactly, and I find myself when I say there's never been a better time to be alive.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: I'd say, do we have a lot of problems?
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Heck yeah.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: Are there any that I'm really worried about?
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: Of course, but we always have.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, when I was growing up we were still in the Cold War.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: I remember our summer reading in high school was this book Fate of the Earth?
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: It was about nuclear annihilation.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: It scared the daylights out of us.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: I played Little League baseball with a guy who died of AIDS in the very first wave.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: We didn't know what it was.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: We've always had really difficult challenges and because we didn't just sit back and give up, we've moved ahead.
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: And it can be three steps up and two steps back move forward.
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: But we don't move forward if we give up and case pessimism and another downside I think of the technology revolution and social media and news feeds and that sort of thing is just the pounding of negativity.
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: It's not healthy, it's not good for us is something that you know is going to change the world or change you, but you, even by doing it, give others hope of this is possible, because we'll learn Ultimately.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: We want everyone, you know, no matter what the number is or the N, to survive and to live and to have that good life.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: But I think hope has to be, I think, one of the ingredients when it comes to optimism.
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: So we have three of them.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: So action, hope and perspective.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: Those are like three equals optimism.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking there's one more, and it's I don't know what the right word, whether it be resilience or tenacity, but you don't give up.
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: I was going to say resilience and perseverance.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Okay, tell me about that ingredient and where it plays into optimism.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: I think, and maybe this is that hint of realism you have to know that bad things are going to happen.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Life is hard, it's not all butterflies and rainbows.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I say the life is good folks.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: They have a shirt that says something along the lines of life can be tough, life isn't easy, but life is good and if you assume that everything's going to go your way, you're setting yourself up for a very disappointing life.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: It's just not going to go away.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: It's how can you learn from those setbacks?
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: I think that's important.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: I think that, again, a perspective oh yeah, this happened to that person.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Or I know someone who had setbacks, people who just understand that life's going to deal you setbacks.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: It's how you deal with them.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: When I worked with Ted Turner early in his sailing career, he was terrible at it, terrible, and he'd say I'm not losing, I'm just learning how to win.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: I've heard athletes say there are two outcomes of this game.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: I'm either going to win or I'm going to learn, and it's a hugely valuable mindset to have.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: We tend in these conversations to focus on the highlights and you've done that with my biography.
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: But there were plenty of lowlights and that movie I was really proud of.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: We had a bunch of friends and family, investors and a couple of people we didn't even know.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: They all lost money.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: That was really hard.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: I didn't enjoy that.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Glad I did it.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: They knew what they were getting into.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Thankfully, back to being bold.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: Our best laid plans didn't even come close.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Those things are going to happen.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: So disappointment you can feel sad.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: I think too, and it's legitimate.
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: I think what I've gotten better at doing as I've gotten older is just being able to feel it and not have it stick.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: So I think it's also important you were talking about social media, what you intake, but also who you're around.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: Oh yes.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: Who you surround yourself or who you learn from?
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: What do you feel when it comes to holding onto your optimism?
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Because people can try to crush it.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: People can try to say you're crazy or don't do that.
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: What type of community or relationships or connections do we need around us when we're working to make the world a better place tomorrow?
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've sort of conceded the notion and I fall victim to it that people are going to use social media.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: I think it's really important to sort of really look at who you're following, really look at those people.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Every time they post you get a pit in your stomach.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Or why are you doing that to yourself?
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: What's the gain from that?
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: And I've done this myself and I've found that the algorithms that spin you down into doom also work the opposite way If you reward the things that are more uplifting.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Right, find the right cadence to be informed.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: That's, I think, just important for people, because I think, like you said, we live in a world where it's instant, everything is instant and even live streamed.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: My mom used to teach us as children like whatever you see leaves an imprint, so watch what your eyes land on Right.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: My mom used to teach us as children like whatever you see leaves an imprint, so watch what your eyes land on Right.
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: Don't really, you know, like scary movies?
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: She was talking about that kind of stuff, but you could really take that with news or things that aren't good for you to grow or to evolve Really.
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: Listen to this one because I think it's important.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree and I think it also.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: I think we've become disproportionately obsessed with quote unquote news, you know, if you let some of it just die down, take action on the things you think are important, worry about the things you think you can have an impact on, but to obsess minute by minute and not live your life with joy and with purpose.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Because it's going to steal it.
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: I mean you could extrapolate that out to just about anything you obsess on or check or refresh, refresh.
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: You're constantly refreshing, and I don't just mean news.
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: I mean like, did I get in?
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Like I think of college applications and how much stress that is and now they're on computer versus, you know, the big envelope versus the small envelope.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: This is what I grew up with.
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: It was like, oh, I knew when I got the small envelope I didn't get in, I got the big one I was in.
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: So I mean all the things think about like, what are you refreshing in addition to potentially the news or some outcome?
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: But think about putting some good things that you're refreshing, refreshing your gratitude list, refreshing how you're organized, refreshing.
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest things that gives you perspective is to go help somebody else.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: You know volunteer work for Habitat, go work in the animal shelter, go do something in a sense that really does refresh that I think again.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: I go back.
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: Sometimes you think, wow, my parents were hard on me or I did this or that.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: But the things I'm talking about here are really good learnings.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: And one just popped into my head as I was just saying that is, my mom always volunteered in the food pantry, and so she would actually have us go deliver with her, and so it was just something important that I think was very memorable to me, because I realized how, even though we weren't rich, we were not wealthy my mom had three jobs, like we were always doing the things, but I realized I was, I was actually better off than other people and I didn't.
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: I didn't understand that till we would go in and deliver the food and you know, understand why we were doing it and those types of things.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: So I think that might be my parting shot of like optimism is like, if you think life is low, like go help someone that's potentially, you know, not even in the same space as you with regard to how much you should be thankful for.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: Amen, I think that's absolutely right.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: So, as we're ending ending and this went very fast, I think, in the sense of being sure not to compare yourself is something we talked about.
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: We talked about the ingredients of action, perspective, resilience and hope.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: When it comes to being optimistic, what would you tell someone today that just says there's nothing to be optimistic about or happy for?
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: What would be your one-line mantra?
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, one-line mantra is tough.
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: I know.
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: Look hard, count your blessings.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Spend the next few hours trying to catch people being good and, like I loved what you said get out and help somebody else.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: Get out, make a difference.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: I hate saying make a difference because it sounds really trite, but get out, walk across the street and help somebody there's.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: You don't have to look very far to find people in need, like animal shelters, you name it.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: There are plenty of things you can do to make a difference.
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: It's not a snap your fingers and things are going to get better instantly, but yeah, you got to lean in.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: You have the power to make the world better.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Every single person does, and don't think that you don't.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on the Bold Lounge, sharing your bold journey, your take on life and the optimistic perspective we all need to have in our pocket daily.
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: It was a true pleasure.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: I really appreciate being on and all the work that you're doing.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: Through the continuum of bold stories vulnerability to taking a leap you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.