Latest / In Tune Podcast / 10. Dr. Simon Floreani - Leading from the front in Chiropractic

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10. Dr. Simon Floreani - Leading from the front in Chiropractic · In Tune Podcast

• Dr. Nick Harvey: Welcome to the In Tune Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Nick Harvey a chiropractor from Australia. This podcast is focused on getting deep with chiropractors globally and understanding their journey, their why, and what shaped them to be the chiropractors they are today. So come with me as we interview some great people within our profession so we can push chiropractic forwards. So, my guest today is an international chiropractor from Melbourne and the co-founder of Well Adjusted and Vitality. He was the president of the Chiropractors Association of Australia for four years and the first ever chiropractor appointed the board of Allied Health Professions Australia. He's been in practice about 30 years, mentored more than 35 associates, including myself, and he's now a coach for chiropractors too. Dr. Simon Floriani, welcome to Intune. Simon: Thank you so much, Nick. It's great to be here. And I'm actually not from Melbourne, I'm from Barcelona these days. And soon to be the south of France. But yes, it's it's a it's it's a long 30-year story, so I'm not sure where you want to start with that because it's it's it's it's been a bumpy fun road, but but Dr. Nick Harvey: Yes. Simon: still still in love with chiropractic every day. You know, and it's a beautiful thing about this profession. yeah, Dr. Nick Harvey: Yeah. Simon: I I remember doing a media interview with national television. And the interviewer said, I don't know anyone. And this was when I was 20 years in practice. I know anyone that's been so in love with their career 20 years down the cor down the track. And I said, You just, you know, you just didn't do something that was life giving. The best advice I ever had was, you know, do a career that's life giving for you and life giving for everyone else that you see and touch. And and chiropractic is that. It gives life every day and it it's never led me to burn out its only ever recharge my batteries in the process of letting in eight flows. So it's a it's a great day for chiropractic. Dr. Nick Harvey: It is, it is. I I could not agree more. And where I'd like to start with you, Simon, is really the beginning of your journey of where you found chiropractic, or maybe the better question is where chiropractic found you. Simon: Yeah, well, I I was a chronic tonsillitis sufferer, and my family grew up in Alice Springs, which is the outback right in the center of the world, center of Australia, in the heart of Australia. And I used to have to have the locum come and give me penicillin injections because my throat would close over. And and my family had done a big shift in the 70s to brown bread and no sugar and honey and natural foods and And we we ditched everything white out of our household. My par you know, my dad said the k it's not normal for kids to have antibiotics all the time. So he got these manual books in the 70s of natural health healing. And so we became a bit of a freak family back then. And and we, although we didn't see chiropractors, we had a a family friend who was a naturopath brought a chiropractor through the town and she gave us all an adjustment. And I literally had an adjustment and I felt this surge of power and electricity. One of those adjustments, I was like, what is that? And then never had tonsillitis again. And and it was not till a year or so later my mother said, You haven't had your standard well, I had stones in my tonsils, they were that bad. And it took years for them to go away, but I never got another infection and another visit from the locum getting penicillin shots or big drama. And and so I then went on to do my year ten work experience at like 15 in the Alice Springs hospital because I wanted to be a pediatrician. And the pediatrician at the end of that two weeks said, Simon is too good for this. He should do something life-giving. He said that he will only see children that are sick and dying, and he should do something life giving. I was like, no, you know, he said, you you need to find something. Anyway, that's when I had that aha moment of that that woman who gave me the adjustment, that she was a doctor. I could be one of them. And then I started to research chiropractic and never, you know, never doubted it after that. it it really was one of those moments and I never knew that miracles weren't probable and possible because I just thought that it happened to me. Of course it can happen to anyone else. So yeah, I've always had that fundamental belief in my mind, in my heart, in my soul that this stuff is good and I've just only ever you know, espouse that even when I had no experience as a young chiropractor, I was like, I know this stuff works. And so don't tell me it doesn't. And don't try and complicate it with medicine saying that these guys are quacks. I had no idea that chiropractors were second class citizens until well after I'd gotten into the co chiropractic course. And so I just thought they're doctors, they deal with medicine naturally. It's gonna be a great thing. And it so is. Dr. Nick Harvey: Mm, wow, what a powerful story. And then you went in and started studying at RMIT with all that belief and that conviction that you had within chiropractic, what was that like stepping foot in university? Simon: Well, I was 17. I left home, went to the to the big smoke after being in a very small country town that didn't even have a set of traffic lights. So it was very small, 25,000 people in the town. And so I was like a deer in the headlights about the amazing city life, you know. And fortunately for us, we had an amazing chiropractor on staff at the university called Dean Lines, who's since passed away. He was a Gonstead practitioner. He was a true chiropractor. And he's one of my greatest mentors because he was at a stage in his career where he'd been a busy chiropractor and he decided to go back into the university system and teach chiropractors how to be, or students how to be chi true chiropractors. And most often in the in the education system, you get chiropractors that haven't actually been successful in practice, who come into the education system with all their inadequacies and the insecurities because they never knew what it was like to be a successful chiropractor. In general, and I'm not saying that's always the case. but this guy was a true, tried, trusted chiropractor, and he was awesome. And he was the one that drilled home to us about the power of the adjustment. And so I sort of bought that belief. And it led me to believe that you gotta be very careful who you let inside your head. Because if you get coaching from someone, you're gonna you're gonna learn their insecurities, you know. So when you get coaching from a chiropractor that goes, that's a subluxation. Correct that and all else will follow. And if you didn't, you know, if you didn't hit the mark, it's because you weren't good at finding the subluxation and correcting it. It wasn't because chiropractic doesn't work. And then ironically, there was another chiropractor on the staff who was a researcher, PhD. Anyway, one day she came through the hallways of the university handing out this bit of paper, so excited, viscerally like pumped up. And she was like, I can't believe this. Finally, they found a relationship between the nervous system and the immune system. Here's the research. And I was like, you didn't know that? Like, you had to wait for a piece of paper and someone to tell you that you can believe in that. You had no idea functionally, neurologically, and you're a smart person. How is it that you don't understand something that I you're our head lecturer with a PhD and you don't get it? That of course the nervous system drives the immune system. Well That so that helped me go, you've got you've got politics at play here and also belief systems. And the belief systems of people that are insecure are really wobbly. And then the belief systems of people that are really strong in their philosophy are really sturdy. And so you've got to be careful to make sure you've got someone with a sturdy background before you start to lean your weight on them or you start to borrow or headspace from them. Dr. Nick Harvey: Mm, I couldn't agree more. And unfortunately that that has been ever true even through my experience through university, that for the most part, unfortunately I can say there was a lot of inexperienced, insecure teachers. there was a few great ones, don't get me wrong, few few great, fantastic ones. F but for the majority, unfortunately, as you said, they couldn't make it in practice and they came back to teach and they bled all their insecurities. into us. I mean, what is it now? You you come out of university and it takes two, three, maybe even four years just to let go of all the fear that they've in indoctrinated you with. that isn't even true. That isn't even true. So unfortunately Simon: I mean, I have to be I have to be honest with you. You know, by the time I graduated, I was frightened to say the word subluxation. It took me probably three years to be able to say to a patient subluxation with a firm can you know conviction that it's actually something that's real. Because in the latter years of my career, there was a huge backlash in Australia around the use of the word subluxation, how it was a quack term and blah, blah, blah. And we should never use it. And so I was like, you know, is that just misguiding the patients and so you know you have to work through those insecurities because especially when you're vulnerable and your headspace is student based, you you absorb that insecurity because you don't know any different. And so it it takes work to dismantle go, is that true? Is that really true? And now I, you know, now being that I've been in practice 30 years, my biggest goal is to help chiropractors understand that the old guys were right. A subluxation affects everything in the body. And if you're good at clearing the subluxation, all else will follow. And it is absolutely plug and play true. And it's the chiropractor getting great at removing subluxations and being a masterful adjuster that shifts the dial massively. Because you don't have to say as many words. If you just turn someone's nervous system back on, it's like the light switch goes back on, the light works. Or it doesn't. If you don't switch the right switch, it doesn't work. And that's where we should train as chiropractors in going, Hey, I don't think I'm I'm getting those subluxations corrected the way they need to be. What do you think we should do instead of chiropractic doesn't work? Because absolutely every time you create connection to the to the from the brain to the body, all else follows. And if only more chiropractors truly knew that in their heart and soul, it would be a different different place for our profession. Dr. Nick Harvey: I could not agree more. I could not agree more. And where did you start to build that conviction? Was it through, like you said, some of your teachers and lecturers at university? Or was there external events and seminars and and coaches early in your career that started to teach you that and embed that in you? Simon: yes. You know, I never stopped learning. I think I I I spent half of my income in the first year on seminars and improving my craft. and I think that's a that's a really important headspace shift for for students to realize that when you graduate, you're you're not even fifty percent of the way there. You think you've got a something under your belt, but you're seriously not. And and so I was f very fortunate in that I I'm I'm a bit naive in that way. I I don't I I'm a big picture person. So if you tell me the big picture, then I I find the way there. I don't need to follow linear steps of like, give me the research, give me the research, give me the formulas. I'm very organic. And it probably helped that I was I was twenty two when I graduated and I looked like I was fifteen. And so people would say to me all the time in early practice, they're like, so how how old are you? How long have you been in practice? And I'll be like, I wore a tie, so I looked older. That's how young I looked. And and I said, I've studied for five years at university. How old do you think I am? And they'd be Well, you must be about 26, 27, or like something like that. And then they would say, Can can you help with this? And I'll be like, chiropractic can definitely help with that. Now I may never I I'd never seen those cases before, but I was like, you know, the the Cox brothers from Gonsted told me this could work. I was like, I I can borrow that. And I'm a very good borrower of confidence. And then I fill the gaps. So I jump into the future and I backfill. Whereas the if you're someone who is like linear and need to follow steps, that's a different personality type. And I've learned that about myself. I can jump into the future and then backfill. And so I'm very intuitive like that. And I I spent time knowing who I let into my head was really important. I just found people that I admired. I found I went and saw chiropractors and osteopaths and masterful healers and said, can you adjust me and tell me so I can feel what that's like? And then I tried to reproduce it. So I borrowed that that confidence and that brilliance and said, what did they do that actually made me feel like my nervous system shifted? And then I would go and do the course that they were if they were SOT practitioner, I'd be like, where did you do your SOT training? Who taught you? And then I would model that. so it's really for me it's always important to get authentic teachers. I mean when I had my first adjustment from one of the Cox brothers, I was sitting in a chair and I felt like someone went and blew air on the back of my occiput and in both my condyles went bang bang. And I was like, what was that? And so I did like four of their seminars just so I could try and emulate that. And then I've been fortunate enough to be adjusted by some of the greats like Reggie Gold and and when you get an adjustment that shifts the s the core of who you are and aligns your mind, body, and spirit, you go, whoo, that is the gold. And then I've spent my whole career trying to be and do that. Because you can be that if you find the right people to help guide you. And you know, unfortunately there is a lot of sales and sizzle, not just in our profession but in the world. And there's this thing I call cocaine confidence, you know. I never knew what cocaine was until I started working in a high income area where people would come in and go, You need to change your office and I can help you. And you just pay me a hundred thousand bucks and I will, you know, remodel this and I and I'll be like, okay, wow, you know, wow. But I didn't realize that that cocaine confidence can often come with nothing underneath it and no no congruency. So you need to test anyone and test them again and then ask the people around them and find out. Whether they've actually got the goods or whether they've just learned sales technique. And and that's an unfortunate thing, not just in our profession, but everywhere. When you get business advice, you get, you know, financial and shares and trading advice, you've got to make sure that that person has actually made money or has actually been successful in business. parenting advice. You wanna make sure you've got good dad whose kids love them before you take advice from them. so it's really important to l be careful who you let get in your head, but then also for me and the type of personality I am, for me to find someone that's congruent and I feel it in my soul that they're a great chiropractor before I would get them to teach me. Dr. Nick Harvey: Could not agree more. And I think one of the biggest things I pick when I'm choosing my role models in chiropractic is there there is absolutely nothing wrong with someone being a great communicator. And and all sales really is is being a great communicator. Yeah, being able to communicate Simon: Absolutely. Dr. Nick Harvey: and and deliver. But if someone is a great communicator that then can't deliver the goods, that's an incongruency for me. If they can't lay hands on someone and shift something with inside of them that they can't even articulate, that's not congruent for me. So I have no issues at all with someone being a great communicator, being able to talk to people and and not even in a in a persuasive kind of way, but really sharing the good news, sharing the good news of chiropractic in an attractive way, in a charismatic way, that's great. Simon: Yeah. Dr. Nick Harvey: But it it really becomes an issue within our profession when you can't deliver on what you're talking about. And the the what you said just before of getting on the table and having someone shift that within you, having someone adjust you and it it does something that words can't do. And it changes something within you that you you chase. You chase that and you wanna you wanna embody that Simon: Yeah. Dr. Nick Harvey: and you wanna create that in your life. Simon: And commit to not stopping until you find that. Dr. Nick Harvey: Yeah. Simon: I have a funny story. I I studied neurolinguistic programming, which is what most of the chiropractic sales and marketing techniques are based is based on, in it in the whole profession. And the the the lead educator was a master NLP trainer, and he was morbidly obese. And between in every break, he would race out the back and drop five or six cigarettes and He was a grumpy man and and quite nasty to his wife and daughter who I ended up adjusting. And I was like, who you are is speaking so loudly that I can't hear what you're saying. And and that's something I've always had because I'm just like, hold on, you're telling me that like you can persuade anyone to do anything, but there is this radar inside me that s is abrasive to everything you bring across. And so no matter how well you power it, and I've seen you know, chiropractors across the globe, because we teach across the globe, who've said, that was an awesome adjustment. And I'm like, n no, it wasn't. And they're like, yeah, yeah, it is. And I'm like, actually, no, it wasn't. And I know you bought the course, but that doesn't mean you integrated the knowledge and that you actually delivered great adjustments. You can't just learn something in your head. You have to have a craft. And it's like a a good carpenter hanging a door for you and saying, There you go, now I'll charge you a fortune because I'm experienced, but the door doesn't work. And you're like doesn't swing, you know, and I'm like, well, hold on. You you gotta deliver great results because the nervous system, you can't just promote it. And so that's a that's a fundamental thing in everything that I teach is you gotta deliver. You have to deliver magnificent adjustments, and then people will follow whatever recommendation you set or whatever you want to charge them, they will pay because you're magnificent in your delivery of chiropractic. And that is the goal because people have changed. You know, you can't just pitch something. Everyone's getting pitched at all the time from with marketing. You cannot just pitch at people anymore. And when I first graduated, we'd do a spinal screening in the street and get fifty to a hundred new patients. And because people just genuinely agreeable and they didn't know that they should distrust or that they should look anything up. Everyone Google stalks you, looks online, finds out reviews. You know, in Australia, thirty percent of the people have seen a chiropractor already. So they know what an adjustment is. And then 30% of people these days, not 80%, are cerebral and they want facts and information. And 30% at least are emotionally like they're they're they're more limbic. So they're fe getting a feel for you. Do I like the look of this chiropractor? Do I like the touch in their hands? Do I like the sensations in the office and the respectfulness of the CAs? And and what are people, what are other people saying on their reviews? So we have to be better at being more authentic across the board, not just a good salesman on the day or in the adjustments. We've got to be a really great chiropractor with many people telling the world online in the community that you're a great chiropractor. So that authenticity is becoming more and more important because you can't just pitch and promote in this profession. We are in the connection business. And we're in the trust business. And if you don't have trust established and true connection at a emotional level as well as a mental level, then you're not gonna get success in practice. Dr. Nick Harvey: Hey guys, I just wanted to quickly let you know I'm going to be running two-day adjusting seminars across Australia and New Zealand at the end of 2026 and into 2027. They're going to be two days of going deep into what I believe are the fundamental principles of adjusting: holding a high intention, getting deep with your presence, adjusting from positions of ease, and most of all, expressing the art at its highest form. If you're interested, there's a link below in the show notes, or you can go to www. inflowartistry.com.au. All right, back into it. Could not agree more. Could not agree more. And speaking to the point you spoke on with chiropractors thinking they deliver a great adjustment, w one of the principles I teach is it's not an adjustment if their body and their nervous system says it isn't. You know, no no matter how cool or how flashy or how much speed you think you deliver and that that's all coming from the ego of you. You know, it's about them and it's about their body and it's about the shift within their nervous system. And that's That's the most important part. That's the crucial part. And, you know, a lot of people won't know coming out of university, my first job was with you, Simon. And in that and watching you work, I saw in a very special way the way you tailor the input and the force that you're delivering to each person individually. It was it was always different. It was always specific. It was always unique. Now that you're teaching chiropractors a lot of these elements, and you know, you've got You've got new grads coming up. I'm I'm sure you see a lot of students. What are you starting with them with? What are you starting with the basics to build that fundamental foundation of adjusting? Simon: well the f the first thing and it's thank you for saying that by the way. It's been always been my intention is to make sure that I'm delivering exactly what that nervous system needs. And I I think there's good metaphors are really helpful and you know, like like to your point, chiropractors are like musicians and you know when you tune a guitar, you've got to tune it to whatever's happened to that guitar and the strings and the and you don't actually have to be a musician to know whether a guitar is tuned or not. It just seems off, you know? And then when it is in tune and when there's beautiful music coming out of that, you know that's good, regardless of whether you've ever heard guitar or music before. It's beautiful. And there's a symphony in that. And so we have to get to that point where we're listening enough to the nervous system and the gauge of the nervous system and what's coming back. And so that's coherence. And ironically, you know, spending more time with Heidi Harvick She's starting to study the coherence by putting electrodes on the chiropractor while they're adjusting and seeing the brain coherence happen between the two. If you don't have that. And if you're still thinking of the washing or the bills you gotta pay or the fight you had with your spouse whilst you're adjusting someone, you're not coherent. And so you have to be really good at putting all that aside and going, I am here for you, Nick, if you're on my table, because I want to connect with what your needs are. And I want to tune this nervous system so that it sings with a beautifulness. And so that's the bit that we need to start. And if chiropractors start with that, saying, where there's a beautiful word that I I'm using more and more, it's called tacit tension. So when you put your hands on someone, no matter how much study you have or haven't done, there is a stickiness, a tackiness to the nervous system that is not working properly. And if we trained on that instead of going, this x-rays show that you've got a C6 subluxation, if you felt the nervous system first and went, I know this person's got headaches, but there's like a sacral subluxation here, and I can feel it because it's drawing me in. Some people call it drop-in, some people call it draw-in. There's a there's a harmonic resonance when there is lack of innate intelligence, and that I call tacit tension. So when there's a tackiness or a tacit tension, your hands sort of get drawn to go put. energy back here, bring in t innate intelligence back here in whatever way is possible. And so that understanding of tacit tension is where I start is to go close your eyes, feel the nervous system, get emotion sensation, feel what's not working, and then deconstruct that and go, well okay, that's a T2 area or is it T three, four? Okay, no, it's T two. And is it is it a P R is it a P like Whatever you then reconstruct what you're going to do, and then this is the best technique for this person. And then so you layer on from there rather than going, the x-ray says, Well, you know, or the scan says there is much more power in harmonic resonance. And so when you get into that beautiful coherence, you feel more, you get better results because you're feeling for tacit tension in the body and working ways to release that. Does that make sense? Dr. Nick Harvey: That does make sense. That makes complete sense. And one of the principles I teach in my seminars is just listen to where you're drawn to within the body and with the nervous system. Like you're saying, you know, they they're coming in with these headaches, but I'm just so drawn to the the sacrum, that what what's going on here and be curious and investigate and and ask open questions, you know, how does this feel? Or start to lean into areas of their nervous system that are connected to that area. And I think you'll discover more and that's when you can start to ask people questions and they they give you the answers like, How did you know that? How d how did you Simon: Yeah, yeah. Dr. Nick Harvey: know what's going on within within my body? I had had no clue that was related to the nervous system. And I think that's where you really start to Simon: Check it. Dr. Nick Harvey: win trust is when when people start to understand that you're listening. You're listening. Simon: Yeah. Yeah. And listening with your hands. another great sense that I love to talk about that really is I mean, if you think we we talk about using our eyes to look at x-rays, to look at posture, and then we you know, we listen for the noise of the adjustment and the movements and we feel with our hands. Well, one of the major senses is our nose. It's one of the strongest senses we've got. And the you know, the olfactory nerves go straight into the brainstem, they you they they're really High uptake nerves, but no one really talks about the smell. You know, you can smell when someone's a bad egg, not just because of their body odor, but you can you can smell people that are not good for you. You can smell environments that are good for you. You can smell where they're when there's a a complication or a red flag in someone. And that's a sense, and I'm calling it a sense of smell. Some people would call it a gut sense, but there is a sense that we don't talk about enough as a profession where you go, this is you already know whether someone's leaning into your consultation and really wants to be in your office. And if you can get better at calling that out and say, look, I smell something's not right here, you know? I literally do say that. I sm I you know, whether call it whatever you want to call it, but I'm smelling that there's just there's some lack of coherence here. And I'm in the trust business. And in order for you to let me get into to to your body space, We need to break down that barrier because otherwise I'm just dumping flesh here or I'm just gonna manipulate you and it's not gonna work. Because we want healing and connection of mind, body, and soul. That's a real adjustment. And so if we were to even start conversing and talking as a profession, going, What smells wrong here? What's not gelling for you? it is literally a sense of smell. When you you know, you you get around people and you go, you just I could inhale that person because they're such good fun or they're so good for me or there's so you know, there's a beautifulness of that purity and so that sense is a is a real sense and I believe it's something we could and in time we will further and we will discuss because chiropractors are hugely sensate human beings. We have to feel you can't really get a machine to thump the the body into alignment and connect mind, body, and spirit. So that's that's where I would go. Dr. Nick Harvey: Mm. And I think what you're really teaching here is is being in touch with the senses. You know, being being in touch with and and there's different sensations we have, and you could almost different different gifts that each individual has of of their own that they're more in touch with. this was actually an interesting thing I had early in my career where I felt like we we talk a lot in Chiropacti the innate intelligence of them, the innate intelligence of their body. But I think what is sometimes missed is we we forget to talk about the innate intelligence within us. The innate intelligence that speaks to us when we connect with someone that that tells us and guides us where to go within their body and their nervous system. And sometimes that's a smell, sometimes it's a it's a buzz, sometimes it's a it's a it's a word. And sometimes we're being led in in where to go. And it takes a skill set, I think, to listen to that. And to be guided and to not let the ego take over. In that, is that something that's been pivotal in your career, listening to the innate within you? Simon: Absolutely. You know, the the I think it really hit home for me when I I was doing some spiritual study with a like like a a group and they talked a lot about the power of prayer and you know tipping your head forward and letting God enter and take your head out the way and just move through and let the healing come through your hands and you know and prayer helps bring it into a precision, you know, putting your hands together and I that whole thing, I was like, that's like me standing at the foot of the table, putting my hands, I bow my head down and I grab the ankles to do a leg length check and I get this whoosh through. And I think that's why I've never had burnout, is because I never see that the adjustment comes from me. It comes through me, and that's universal intelligence and innate intelligence flowing through me, and I get charged up in the process. I've never I've been tired at the end of an adjusting day, but I've never been exhausted of people. I've been like, the miracles. And when you're when you're in that flow, you get you get charged up in the process. You get healed in the process. And so that to me is more of what we do is to channel universal intelligence. And and you would know this. And it it takes a brave chiropractor to admit it. Sometimes you lift your head after an adjustment and go, Did I adjust everything? Like I'll be like, where did I go? It's like God takes you out the way and Something happens and you then you come back at the end and go, we're done here. And there's a healing that is beyond us. And at the risk of sounding is you know esoteric. It is it is a flow state where things happen, your hands go somewhere, and then you've got to write your notes afterwards and go, what did I do there? Because something happened there, and patients get off the table and go, Whew, what was that? And so that's healing. Very different than manipulation, or even, you know, I that's why I think an adjustment has to have that healing thread and brings mind, body, and spirit into it, not a manip or a thumping of flesh. And so even if it takes you your whole career to work that one out, it's worth it because it's not something that we talk about enough. and that whole connection of mind, body, and spirit, and that whole channeling of universal intelligence or God or whatever you want, the Holy Spirit. Whatever you want to call it, it is something beyond you as a healer and it c it requires quietening yourself enough to listen and channel something that is that that is what healing is actually made of. Dr. Nick Harvey: Yeah, and becoming a a conduit, a clean conduit for it to move through you, for the work to move through you. I could not agree more. And I can't help but feel when we've come into this new age, the age that we're in at the moment, the analytical age of of measuring and repeatability and and the science that chiropractic is trying to fit into that box, but it's never been a part of that box. It's always been it's always been focused on the whole. And I think it's great the study and the research and the the areas we're doing into chiropractic because I do think it's essential to build that strong base and foundation. But we also have to understand its limitations. That it when chiropractic is about embodying the whole and it like you said, it's about being in the flow state and being in the present moment. And you can't do that from the analytical this process, then this process, then this process. And I had Simon: Well can you imagine sorry you go. Dr. Nick Harvey: I had someone on the podcast talk about the manipulation and the manipulation is when I'm thinking about doing something to someone to create this outcome. Whereas the adjustment is we're not even thinking, we're just letting it flow through us. And we're we've we've got a really high intention and we're connected with the person, but we're not thinking about what can I do to create this outcome. We're we're letting it work through us. Simon: And honoring the fact that that body has to do the healing. It's not me. It's never me, the practitioner doing the healing. It's always the body. And being humble enough to go, I'm a servant to this body. I'm washing your feet and filling your tank so that you can do the healing. I am not the creator of this. I'm a I'm the conduit. And it's a it's a funny day, you know, when when you start to see the work Heidi's doing and that she's, you know, put accidentally puts an electrode on the prefrontal cortex and goes, it's the prefrontal cortex that wakes up. It's the innate intelligence that runs the body that wakes up with an adjustment. It's not segmental. So it's not about the L5 PRS being put back in the right place. It's not about the, you know, the facet joints. It's not about it's about the prefrontal cortex getting enough message here to go get back to work and reconnect to the nervous system properly. you know, so I it's it will be very interesting for a lot of those fundamental chiropractors who are very mechanical to have to go, what? The research now says that my job is to reconnect the prefrontal cortex and then get out the way instead of pretending that straightening your curves is gonna fix this problem or s replacing that vertebrae. It's not a freaking pinch nerve. Wake up people and and at the risk of offending some people who've built their entire practice and career on that, it's just the it's just the research. If you're evidence-based, dig into the evidence and realize it it's not actually to do with your segmental subluxation. It's to do with making sure that you fire up the prefrontal cortex and that you have enough coherence for the patient to receive your adjustment well and and take on healing. So you know it's not about esoteric anymore. It's about research and Heidi's put that down thick and fast and Dr. Mo and all the leaders in the profession all going, People, get in the brain. Don't don't try and fix a bone out of place. Dr. Nick Harvey: Yeah. I could not agree more. I could not agree more. And I want to circle back into some of your leadership and some of your wisdom and experience you've seen within the profession. Obviously you've mentored and had over thirty-five associates. You've been president of the ACA. You've even sat on the the Medicare review committee and many different roles within that too. And we're we're taking you about back about twenty years, but I really want to hear some of the wisdom, some of the learnings that that you found through being in those leadership roles those many years ago and and what you saw there from the inside of where chiropractic was going. Simon: you know, the first thing that comes to mind is is that we y all see the world from our perspective. And so that's normal and not something to be upset about. And so historically chiropractic in Australia anyway, but a but pretty much across the world, we've been marginalized as second class citizens because we have never fallen under under the umbrella of the medical system referring to us. We don't dispersed drugs and surgery and so we're fringe and we chose that knowingly and honestly and then in any industry where there is a major player they squash their competitors so they stay major right and so it is normal commonplace competitive behavior for a major group to squash a minor group and that's still happening so if you want to be accepted as a B-grade medical doctor it's never gonna happen. So Swallow that pill now and understand that, right? So when I first got onto the Allied Health Professions board, the physiotherapists quit the Allied Health Professions Australia because they let the chiropractors come in. And the only reason they let the chiropractors come in is because I was involved, I was the the liaison between the profession and the government when they were taking APRA from state-based, like our regulation from state-based to national-based. And At that time in in one pa one state in Australia, the only rules for chiropractors was don't screw the crew and don't, you know, don't date your patients, basically. and you could do almost anything else. Whereas in other places you couldn't advertise, you couldn't do this, you couldn't do that, you couldn't do this. So they wanted to bring it all into one. And so the chiropractors were really upset at the government for forcing them, and I had to be the go-between. So I was dealing with a lot of the other professions, going to government meetings. Anyway, so I got to speak to some of these psychologists and dietitians and all these people in the Allied Health Professions, which represent 80% of the healthcare workforce. And they said, why aren't you chiropractors involved with us? And I said, we've been actively, you know, like prejudiced about getting into this group. They're like, come on board. But the thing that hit me the most was I met this lady from who was the head of the psychology group in Australia. And she was like, literally said this to me at a conference. She's like, you're what a chiropractor looks like. And I was like, did you think we were like, I was gonna be wearing Hessian or like have dreadlocks or something? And that was our fault because we were so much catching spears and marginalized as a fringe group that we never stood up for ourselves and stepped into those domains. And so again, with my naive sense, I was like, we need to be in that group. And so I started attending as the president to all these stakeholder meetings and saying chiropractors irrelevant, we, you know. And so we started to get uptake. And then I got because I was just I was just engaging and I wasn't trying to beat our drum or anything. I was like, we're we're we're relevant. We're a good workforce. We can help we can help the government look after people better. So all these doors started to open. They let us join. I got on the Medicare Review Committee. I got asked to like look at all these these elements of chiropractic in the bigger scheme. Got to go and meet with the health minister. And I was sitting with our Federal Health Minister Nicola Roxan at the time at a luncheon. And she's like, I literally got to sit next to her because I was one of the only people there saying, How can we help you? Whereas everyone else was at the table going, You need to give us more money. The government needs to give more money to the hospitals. The government needs more money for the doctors, and we need to train more doctors. And I was like, We're chiropractors, we want to help. And she was like, You people should stop the whole meeting. She said, You people should listen to this chiropractor. Because These guys actually serve the people. You are serving yourselves. And so I got a lot of uptake by starting to get on the front foot. And only when you stop catching spears can you start to throw some. And so the same thing happened within the media profession. They they they saw that the two populations that were stopped seeing medical doctors were pregnant women and children. And their numbers of visitations were going down so low. When I was on this Medicare review committee, they were like, What's happening there? And I was like, mothers don't want to give drugs to their p to their kids, and pregnant women don't want take drugs for their babies. And the only option people have got in the healthcare system is to take drugs. So we need people who can see that population. Well, they were like, of course. I was like, People, pay attention. And then I said, and the other thing is, people are sick of Getting in an ambulance only when they've gone through the guardrails and off the cliff and they're sick and dying down the bottom. If we put guardrails of prevention up, then people don't need the ambulance in the hospital system. So that's what prevention is. And I literally had one of the major health advisors go, That's brilliant. We should get into prevention. And I said we're in a in a a a Collins Street fancy venue at lunchtime. And all these corporate men were drinking alcohol and having big fancy lunches. And I said to him, Do you realize that all of the 50-year-old men in here will be diabetics in 10 to 15 years because they're drinking alcohol and eating too much food at lunchtime? And if we told them all they should have mineral water and fresh lunch on a walk, none of them would get diabetes and you won't need a diabetes hospital. And he was like, what a metaphor! And so That is the naive sense that I have of going, you know, hey people, chiropractic comes from a philosophy of of you know, self-awareness in the body and actually prevention. And if we do that, then we get up to Well, I had the ear of all the major stakeholders, but every time it got down to the next level of some of these professions having to think about prevention and the drug companies missing out on coin, they were like, You're you're weird. So that was eventually my downfall. Because I literally, when I spoke out about vaccines, I went to the APRA meeting going, I'm so glad we're here, because I want to I wanna give you the heads up. In clinical practice, we see the damage from some of these medical procedures on the kids and families. And I want you to use this opportunity to really look at the impact of immunization on on on young children and so many. And and let's go here. Well, they used that against me in the end. Because they were like, you're weird for even thinking that that procedure might have consequences and damage. And so it's it's that naive sense of belief in chiropractic that I that helped me get into some of these amazing positions and to combat in national media you know poo-pooas around kids being adjusted, around chiropractic causing stroke. and I was able to get on the front foot. with those things and bat back the other way, whereas so much of our profession is on the back foot, defending, trying to be accepted, trying to and and once you get over that, and like I said, once you stop catching spears, worried about whether you're going to be wounded or whether you're going to be liked, and you start picking up spears and going, I have got an asset here. This profession is going to help women with their pregnancy and birth. These kids are going to get better and you start throwing the spears, that changes the That changes you and it changes the profession. So that's what the rest of my career is all about is actually helping chiropractors toughen up and get on the front foot and say, we got this, instead of, would you like me? And is this acceptable? And there's never going to be enough research for this profession because we don't have enough money to fund what the drug companies do. And so that Dr. Nick Harvey: Mm. Simon: clinical certainty and that Clinical excellence, we we we are connectors to the individual person. So when someone says, You have changed my life, I feel different, I'll come back as much as you want, that is our biggest proof on the ground, in the trenches. And when we get more confident with that, then that's when that's when the game changes. Dr. Nick Harvey: Yeah. I agree. It does. It does. Simon: Did I answer your question? I hope I answered your question. Dr. Nick Harvey: if you're a chiropractic student or a chiropractor and you're curious about how you might be able to improve your adjusting, I've created a free quiz on inflow artistry all about going deep into what I believe are the five most fundamental foundations of adjusting. It's completely free. It'll take you about 10 minutes to fill out, and it'll give you a detailed report of where you're doing well and where you might be able to improve. If you're interested, the link will be below in the show notes, or you can go to inflowartistry.com. dot-ayy-you slash quiz. And that that pivots on to what my next question was going to be. Obviously, you having this wealth of experience and knowledge and now being internationally seeing a lot of chiropractors as well. I want to focus a little bit on Australia, but then also looking globally of what you think chiropractic and chiropractors are doing well in Australia and and where we're also missing the mark. in terms of the patterns you're seeing globally and where we could be showing up better and fighting more for what we what we stand for. Simon: That's a great question. and one of the benefits of teaching around the world and now being a based away from Australia is to be able to look back and see it's like from the edge of the world. You go, I can see that and When you're in a healing dynamic with you and I as practitioner and and patient or client, that is two people in the relationship where I can pitch at you and say, Nick, I'm gonna be able to help you with this, and you go, Yes, I agree or I don't agree. And in that dynamic, the accountability is between me and you. When you add a third party in there, like a parent and a grandparent and other people, you then you're you're your role has to go up in who you're convincing because the parents are making a decision, the grandparents, the community around the baby are starting to to look deeply at you. And so you have to be tougher and better at what you do. And that in itself is a it's intimidating until you get strong enough for that. And so then what happens is when you bring a third party person in like a an insurance or a a government funder. That's a third party in the in the relationship who has influence. And so you have to build trust and rapport with them. And part of the problem is that 30% of what patients pay in Australia is covered by a third party. And most chiropractors don't even realize that. In America, it is 70%. To ninety percent of the consultation is covered by a third party, even in cash practice. And you go, And then in countries like Spain and Italy and France, zero. So those guys are in the lucky place of one on one. I help you, you pay me, we are good or not good. And then the sa then in Australia, thirty percent you're p pitching and marketing at a third party. And in America, you are mostly marketing at a third party, even if you're in a cash practice. And a lot of Americans won't like to hear this. Because they go, that's why it's easier in America. However, it's harder to get the money out of the third party and insurers and all those other things. And so a lot of chiropractors do a lot of other things that get patients into debt and they have Americans are are happier at carrying debt. So there's a there's an interesting dynamic there that you've got to examine to go, okay. How can I get back to just me and Nick in this relationship instead of broader, wider parties influencing the relationship? Now, in saying that, it is much easier, and the uptake of chiropractic utilization in America is much higher. And in Australia, the uptake and utilization is also very high because people get partially funded for their care. And that means that. There is a general acceptance and there is a general funding and there is more, you know, more availability of of resources to fund chiropractic care. So you need to look at that and go, how do I bond well with the patient if I'm in a country that's only me and the patient? And if I'm in a country where 30% of their care is going to be covered, how do I make sure that I'm looking I'm following the right lines for the third party payers? And in America, same thing again. It's a it's a big issue. And you gotta be careful when you when you don't analyze that, you don't understand. I went to a meeting with the the the health minister's advisor and they I said, Look, chiropractic in Australia doesn't really receive benefits from the government. We are here as contributors. He's like, I'm gonna stop you right there. People in Australia get a discount on their taxation if they have private health insurance, and that is effectively the government paying money into your profession and your Because these people are going to be able to afford your care and get rebates. And I was like, they're right. So even though it's a bit hidden and and in the background, it's still important because it changes how well people receive the chiropractic care or want to utilize the chiropractic care. So that's an important consideration that if you didn't do that, you need to, because it's a it's a just a reality of the commerce of business. And then again, if you're getting coaching or you're getting someone guiding you who's not aware of that, and you're in a you know, there's some states in America where they'll get 90% coverage and some where they'll get 60. And so, and that can be across the border where the government will pay for 12 visits for you, like from Medicare effectively. and across the border you don't get it at all. And so the chiropractors are slipping their wrist going, I'm trying these procedures, but they're not working. And so it is important for you to to really look at what environment you're in in the, you know, one of the reasons they don't earn as much money in Spain and Italy as a general rule is because the acceptance and awareness is not there. And so you've got to work much harder at building acceptance and awareness in your community than someone who's got a chiropractor in every corner, everyone's been to the chiropractor, and you're changing the pitch and the way you you bring chiropractic to them. Dr. Nick Harvey: I could not agree more. I could not agree more. And within that, what model are you teaching at the moment in not even in a looking in a in a legal kind of way, but what model are you teaching is the most carefree, the most fun, and the most life giving model to practice from for chiropractor? Simon: I have a model that's a lifetime care model because I play the long game and if you look at a patient as like the statistics in Australia is that patients see a chiropractor or clients see a chiropractor 2.2 times in general. That's and on average. And so if you see any more than that, you see someone any more than that, you are already on a fringe, right? And so I have a lifetime model where I've been in practice 30 years and I'm still seeing generations of of of patients and their kids and their grandkids. And I want to embed into someone the power of chiropractic over the over their lifetime. And that person I know, even if it's not with me, they're gonna see a chiropractor for the rest of their life because they'll understand the principles of chiropractic and what it does for them. And so that person, if you study books like Good to Great and Built to Last, they talk about the lifetime. value of a patient, how much they're going pay to your business or to chiropractic over the course of their lifetime. And it's going to be 50 to 100,000, up to a million bucks if they're a good referrer. And so when you look at patients like that and go, no matter what happens this week, this month, or this first care schedule, I want you to be a patient for life of chiropractic. And if you leave town, you're going to go to another chiropractor. That's my goal and that's the model I teach from is no matter what, I'm coming for you and your philosophy around health. And I'm gonna help dismantle the health you've got. That's why with my social media, with all those things, I'm giving options for people around the world to start going, I want that. I don't want more drugs for my kids. I want that thing, whatever that is that he's doing, and then I can refer to chiropractors that are good around the world. And then we want people to I want chiropractors to realize that the average patient is worth $50,000 to a hundred thousand dollars to you over the course of their lifetime. And that changes the way you look at them because you go, I've got I've got some work to do to educate you. I want to connect with you. I want to I wanna have you part of my family because you're gonna help me buy my house, if you wanna put it on a commercial sense. But more importantly, that person is gonna fund your career and they're gonna be, if they're a raving fan, they're gonna bring millions of dollars to you. Isn't that a beautiful way to look at it? And then the benefit to them is that I'm gonna change your entire health trajectory. You're gonna live longer, you're gonna live better, you're gonna be a happier person, you're gonna be better at work. And so that's worth it. Much more than a brand new flash car. And so it changes it for me, changes it for the chiropractors who start to go, I'm gonna look at every one of those people as a major asset to my life. And so that's why it's so much better for me to invest into you and realize the return's gonna be over a longer time rather than just try and sell some package and then blow them out the other end and then not get any, you know, any true long-term benefit from chiropractic. Dr. Nick Harvey: Yeah, that's a really powerful model to teach them the effects that chiropractic's going have on their life and their children's life and their children's children's life. And I can attest to seeing that in your practice of the many generations that were coming through at that time. It was just it was such a beautiful thing to see. coming in, a new mum bringing her new bub, and and just wanting to get checked because they understood the principles and the power of chiropractic too. Within that Where you've transitioned into is, you know, running a waiting list practice, you've been big on social media. How has that changed from over the last thirty years? What what have you started to do differently in your adjustments, in the way you interact with people and and again the models that you're you're working from? What what's changed for you? Simon: I think the major thing that's changed is I've I I've always been a fairly intuitive chiropractor. I've done most of the different major techniques. And then when all the heads of those started to die off and no more progression really happened in those techniques, I started to to to examine what it is that makes for great adjustments and masterful chiropractic. And so part of the way my brain works is I'll do something intuitively and then I'm I'm like, I should re rework and reconstruct why I did that. And so when we started teaching techniques and chiropractors are going, why did you do that? Why did your hand go there? Why did you I was like, I actually don't know. I've got to and then I I really I had a patient who's a quadriplegic who I saw from the first days, I saw before his accident and then straight afterwards. Now this guy's got five percent of a spinal cord on X ray in the segment where it's been injured, then it returns to its normal size. So literally has no spinal cord, five percent thread of spinal cord. And yet this guy has ninety five percent connection and can walk and drive and all those things, and a few souvenirs of little walking and limping and stuff, but n but everything else you would say is ninety five percent returned to normal. And I was like, how is that even possible? Like, structurally, mentally, I cannot understand. He's been kicked out of hospital appointments saying, This is not you. It's not possible. This could be you could walking. and specialists, you know, no one can understand on MRI, which is limited, right? And he had he was doing TM meditation in his repair process, and he was training his mind to go outside the spinal cord and down and then back in. And that was his visualization. And I was like, how is that even possible? Where is the nervous system tissue for that? And then I realized you've got all the ganglia and the relay stations outside the spinal cord. So you've got your lateral ganglia, your collateral, and your terminal ganglia. I was like, maybe they are processing parts of the nervous system function back to the central processing unit. And so then I started doing belly side adjusting, and I've always been a bit interested in that, but I've taken it to a next level and looked at all the ganglia and how to sweep them and change them and move them and get nervous system tissue. improved on the belly side. And so I was able to develop techniques that I'd I'd looked at and semi-understood, but not really, you know, you follow some of the CMRT principles or the the the reflex work, but you don't really deconstruct it from a neurological perspective. So when I had to start teaching it, I thought I'm gonna bury my head in there. And so I I've gone into that developing stage of technique. and so I teach a lot about that because I think When you realize there's three extra components to the nervous system that you may or may not be adjusting, and you integrate those, all of a sudden you're adjusting caliber and quality goes up. And so you get these these nervous systems switching on quicker, better, and you get more organic autonomic nervous system function change. that's that just clearly, you know, from my excitement, you can tell it gets me going to realize we have more access. And the more access you can have. And the some of the cranial techniques that I've been developing, I'm like, give me get how do I get into the brain? You know, how do I get into the cranium? Where are the whole holes in the armor that we can access the nervous system better from the belly side or from the lateral side? And so that's just another whole area that I'm I'm gonna spend the rest of my career developing because I think it's a a massive part of chiropractic that we don't necessarily we definitely don't learn it in the university system and even post grad, you know. Gonsted would have been developing his techniques if he was still alive. So to stay stuck in a lane way of doing the same old and SOT, some of these techniques have never advanced since their founders died. And yet it's important that as practitioners who've been seasoned professionals, that we advance the techniques of chiropractic and especially to adapt for the modern syndromes and problems that we have. People are no longer lifting hay barrels and wheelbarrows in their field and hurting their back. They are neurologically overwhelmed, they are radiated, they are chemically stressed. They are so we've got to look at brainstem overwhelm and anxiety and POTs and tots and all these other things that are modern syndromes that are having thousands fold increase every year. Because the neural tube is under stress. So I think it's important that we develop this profession from a chiropractic unique perspective, not just more machinery and more drugs and more mechanical things. in that healing space, give the chiropractors more access to the nervous system. So that's my that's my big focus. Dr. Nick Harvey: I could not agree more. And we've got a really exciting path forwards, I think, in in health health and hope and healing. And I think people are going to need us more than ever ever, but we need more well, better trained, better informed chiropractors, which is obviously what yourself and Jen are doing. So if people wanna learn a bit more, I'd love to hear about your retreats and and the coaching and all the other things you're running on on the back end side and how people can learn and work with you more. Simon: Well, we're also adapting as well and and also tailoring learning to what we feel chiropractors really want and need. And so that's why we've got a real retreat focus where we spend four or five days with chiropractors in a really good location. it was something that we used to do as a profession, which was actually spend downtime together and bring families along. I think one of the reasons all my four sons are either studying chiropractic or graduated as chiropractors is because We used to take them to the seminars and we didn't sit in hotel rooms and just shove content down people's necks. We had time by the pool, time at lunch. I used to you know we had dinner with Charlie Ward and Guy Reichmann and Joe Felicia and we we didn't just sit in a lecture room, take notes, put them in a folder, never really review them again. We would sit around and learn and integrate knowledge and that's what wellness chiropractors do is you go to beautiful environments that inspire you, you hang out with people that are like you, you bring your family into the situation. So they love you going to work and heal. You know, there is a healing of family and recharging of the chiropractor. So to do that in a beautiful worldly location, tax deductible, you know, with hours of integration that I can sit over breakfast and find out what's happening for Nick instead of just deliver content on a PowerPoint. So that's That's our retreat model, and that's been working beautifully and and reteaching the chiropractors to sensory integrate learning. And then with a school platform, you know, one of the other biggest issues that we have as a profession historically is that we eat our own. And my goal for the rest of my career is to help chiropractors get on my shoulders and reach higher heights, not squash them so I look better. And so In our profession, if we have an attitude of tolerance for all the techniques instead of my technique's the best and yours is crap and and and then squashing each other is is actually hurting us. And if we could actually we have a school platform, which is an online platform where we train every day, we do sharing of cases, good and bad, and we teach chiropractors normal to have hiccups and hurdles and patients that don't respond or don't follow through, and just how do we manage that using years of experience? And different techniques to train every day on what's relevant for you in practice every day. So to have an online platform that's very consumable and has got 24-7 access, Jen and I and our senior chiropractors answering questions, doing trainings, videoing stuff, and then doing some in person, but mostly what's relevant to you every day. The school platform is phenomenal because you can watch it on your phone when you're on the treadmill, when you're in the car. Not watch it, but you can actually listen to it. and consume that content that grows you as a professional and grows your confidence and grows your your skill set, then you get this constant and never-ending improvement. And it's it's cheap in comparison to going traveling to seminars. So it's an easy consume, it's an easy price point, and it our goal is to just grow it so we've got a beautiful growth-oriented community who are supportive of each other instead of scrolling. squashing each other. So that's that's where we're at. And we're so we're on school. We're the largest performing platform in the chiropractic profession on school, which is SKWL, and and our goal is to grow that and then have really exclusive retreats for people who just need to recharge their batteries, reconnect and in beautiful locations around the world, so that we can learn and love learning at the same time. Dr. Nick Harvey: I love it. That's really exciting. And if you haven't already, right, I'd get to a retreat with with Dr. Simon and Dr. Jen over in Spain or find out more about what D Dr. Simon's got to offer online. Simon: Yeah. Dr. Nick Harvey: awesome. Well it's been such a pleasure to have you on the podcast, Dr. Simon, and Simon: Thank you for having me, Nick. Dr. Nick Harvey: pick apart your brain and your mind and the wisdom and the years of of knowledge you've you've had. And it it's been a real pleasure and You know, I'm sure there's gonna be a another time in the future we sit down again soon and go even deeper into what we've talked about today. But thank you for your time and your energy. Simon: Uhhuh. I'd love that. And I'm a servant of the profession. I always will be till my last breath. And it's been it's awesome to see you flourishing too. I have to say it makes me very, very proud. So thanks for having me on. Dr. Nick Harvey: I thank you, Simon, and until next time. Simon: All right mate, great to speak to you. Dr. Nick Harvey: Thank you for listening to the Intune podcast. If you made it this far, I appreciate you being here. And if you enjoyed this episode, I would really appreciate if you could leave us a five-star review and share this with a friend. We'll see you next time.