Latest / Speak In Flow / Setting Boundaries to Grow: Preventing Burnout and Communicating with Empathy With Darcel Lobo

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Setting Boundaries to Grow: Preventing Burnout and Communicating with Empathy With Darcel Lobo · Speak In Flow

0:01
Melinda Lee: Hello, everyone, welcome to the speak in flow
0:04
podcast, I'm so pleased to introduce to you today Darcel
0:09
Lobo, she is the founder of doll law, a law firm in Seattle,
0:15
Washington area. She's an attorney for families helping
0:19
them to plan for their financial future, everything from stopping
0:23
bankruptcy to foreclosure. She also is a coach for lawyers who
0:29
are starting their law practice, and finding that it seems almost
0:33
exhausting, overwhelming to do both law and also raising a
0:36
family. And so I brought her here today, because I know she
0:40
has such incredible wisdom and insight to share with us
0:44
regarding how we should consent boundaries when it comes to both
0:49
our work and families and how we communicate that. And so
0:53
welcome, Darcel Glad you're here.
0:56
Darcel Lobo: Thank you for having me. Yes. It's pleasure to
0:57
be here.
0:58
Melinda Lee: Thank you so much. Well, let's just jump right in.
1:01
Let's tell the audience, I'm so fascinated by your story. And I
1:06
think it's inspiring. So can you share about your journey?
1:10
Darcel Lobo: Yeah, I'll give a very short overview. So I've
1:13
been an attorney for 15 years. Back in 2016, I opened my own
1:17
law firm after, you know, considering it for quite a few
1:20
years, not sure how to navigate that I had two small children
1:24
just trying to figure out what was next for me and my career, I
1:28
was in a place I was just very unhappy with. So when I'm on my
1:31
own in 2016, have never looked back. So glad that I did. But
1:36
after doing so I spent quite a bit of time mentoring and
1:40
consulting other lawyers who were maybe in similar situation
1:43
to wanted to open their own law firm or improve their law firms,
1:48
but really struggling with the juggling act of their personal
1:54
lives and their professional lives and dealing with burnout.
1:57
And, you know, just a lot that comes with the running of a
2:00
business and being a lawyer. And so I really help lawyers kind of
2:04
bring that all together to have a happier life and a happier law
2:08
firm
2:09
Melinda Lee: Yeah, I mean, they don't teach that in law school,
2:11
right? No. Seven, and many in our audience here is you and
2:17
the, their corporate. And so even if whether it's a law firm,
2:21
or whether you're running your own business, and some other
2:23
type of industry or area, it's like how do we balance polls,
2:27
right, we spent so much time in our work, but then we also have
2:30
this huge other part personal area, that also we want to be a
2:35
part of, and when we present to so thank you so much for Yeah,
2:39
like bringing that together for us, like Yeah, reading both of
2:43
it. And so when, what have you found like, what are some of the
2:48
challenges that you see? Why is it so difficult for us to
2:51
separate the two or bring it together? I want to say,
2:54
Darcel Lobo: well, you know, I think a lot of it is that we
2:56
have we're wearing a lot of hats, no matter whether you're a
2:58
lawyer or corporate or you know, whatever kind of professional
3:01
you are, we were somebody hats, and we're trying to do
3:03
everything all the time, and please everyone at the same time
3:07
and, and we just we can't and I think being okay with that, and
3:11
knowing that you can't be everything to everyone all the
3:15
time, there has to be some some give and take there, there have
3:19
to be boundaries, with yourself, with your clients with your
3:23
family. And I have no my children are a little bit older.
3:25
Now. They're 11 and 13, but with them with my spouse. And so
3:29
learning how to identify those boundaries, assert those
3:34
boundaries. And I think the biggest key when talking about
3:38
boundaries is respecting your own boundaries, the boundaries
3:42
are for you to where you say like, Okay, if this such and
3:46
such happens, this is going to be my response, this is what I
3:49
am or am not going to do. And respecting that for yourself is
3:53
really the biggest lesson learned and setting boundaries
3:57
and respecting them. I feel like and
4:00
Melinda Lee: how did you help yourself? Or how do you help
4:03
your clients identify those boundaries?
4:05
Darcel Lobo: Well, I learned the hard way. And so you know. And
4:10
so I find myself here, you know, talking to my clients that I'm
4:14
coaching with on on how to identify those we really looked
4:17
at, what are their priorities, what's important for them. And
4:21
for a lot of my clients, you know, themselves. They put
4:26
themselves on the backburner so many times, and I genuinely
4:29
believe that, you know, how can we be that you know, the best
4:33
spouse, we can be the best mother, we can be the best, you
4:36
know, lawyer or whatever your profession is, if we're not
4:39
taking care of ourselves first. So I really sit with my clients
4:42
and kind of look through what you know, what's important with
4:45
them? What's their priority? And then where do we need to set
4:48
those boundaries? Where are we finding that, you know, there's
4:51
a lot of time being wasted, we're not productive, we're not
4:54
efficient. And so identifying those problem areas and coming
4:58
up with boundaries For the client that works best for them,
5:01
and that they're going to honour and respect also, I can't come
5:05
up with boundaries for them. Because it was a boundary for
5:08
me, right? It's not going to be the best boundary for someone
5:10
else. So I work with them to figure out what's best for them,
5:14
and then to really help them be accountable to themselves.
5:17
Melinda Lee: Right right. I so agree with that. I'm gonna pause
5:21
it right here because my battery's about to run. Oh, no.
5:25
editing capabilities. This is the type of warning that I had.
5:31
But my, my nose is getting clearer. Oh, wow, that's so
5:36
interesting. Okay, good. Okay. Okay, we're talking about the
5:45
boundaries and how they need to set up for myself. Okay, so
5:49
yeah, I do have a question. You mentioned that you you found it
5:53
out the hard way. What, what? What happened? What was a
5:57
symptom that told you that we can all potentially avoid? I
6:01
didn't want to wait till this moment. Right.
6:04
Darcel Lobo: Right. I think for me, it was kind of a gradual
6:07
progression of things. But I think, you know, the burnout,
6:11
feeling like I was always kind of on edge with, you know, my
6:14
family, with clients, and always kind of, like, you know, being
6:17
snappy with people, which, you know, like, really wasn't
6:21
unjustifiable, but like, in my own head, I was just, I was
6:25
always on edge, I always had, you know, just a lot riding on
6:29
me, um, you know, I know, for me just being really unhappy, which
6:35
isn't my normal self. And so, you know, a lot of unhappiness,
6:40
a lot of burnout, a lot of frustration. And also, just, in
6:45
my personal journey, there was a couple years there where I put
6:48
on about 50 pounds, from like, 20, you know, 2019 to 2021, put
6:55
on about 50 pounds, and I really believe that I was just kind of
6:58
eating the feelings, eating the emotions, to be able to numb
7:02
them and avoid them. For some clients, and might be, you know,
7:06
a lot of shopping a lot of online distractions, whether
7:10
it's an increase alcohol consumption. So there's
7:13
different ways that we, you know, deal with those, you know,
7:17
feelings and emotions and the burnout. And so identifying what
7:22
those are for you, but the triggers are you on and, and
7:25
taking action to kind of reel it back in. And so I spent the past
7:30
two years looking at about 60 pounds of not just weight, but
7:35
like mental weight. Yeah, yeah,
7:38
Melinda Lee: that makes so so much sense. Like, we're not
7:41
giving ourselves what we really want or need, right? We're
7:45
medicating we're finding ways to medicate.
7:48
Darcel Lobo: Yes, yes. And so it's, you know, trying to numb
7:51
those feelings with other things versus just addressing the
7:55
underlying issues. So that's hard. It's hard to address the
7:59
underlying issues and take a look inwards and kind of
8:01
identify where things aren't going very well for yourself.
8:04
That's a hard conversation to have.
8:06
Melinda Lee: Right. Right. And so, you know, is looking for
8:08
someone like you or somebody to support you with that through
8:12
that journey? Yeah,
8:14
Darcel Lobo: yeah. Oh, go ahead. No, I was just gonna say, you
8:18
know, and I think having someone you know, in your corner is
8:21
actually, you know, for me in my profession, like, I bring a
8:25
firsthand experience or an empathy for a lot of my clients
8:29
as a lawyer, or a law firm owner and a mother myself, like, so to
8:33
help my clients kind of reel things back in before it gets
8:37
that far right. Before we get so far off track, or derail, to
8:41
kind of help them stay on track in the first place. It's really,
8:45
you know, what I hope to do with my practice.
8:48
Melinda Lee: So how do you communicate that? I mean, you
8:50
have so many you're still wearing all these different
8:52
hats? Yeah. And what are your suggestions for communicating?
8:58
Once you've had these boundaries identified? What are your
9:00
priorities? What are some suggestions that you have to
9:04
communicate that to one person a person B, they both want you at
9:07
the same time? Like, what are the best ways that you
9:11
communicate? Or approaches?
9:14
Darcel Lobo: So it depends on for me, the underlying issue
9:17
that we're dealing with, like for example, I would say like,
9:19
you know, for time management, I'm a true believer in blocking
9:23
out your calendar, and to you know, focus on you know,
9:27
individual tasks that are taught. So, like in my law
9:30
practice, I only see clients about two days a week, you know,
9:35
you know, I'm very firm on my schedule. I don't see clients on
9:38
Fridays, I don't see clients on you know, Wednesdays law firm
9:41
clients are really Tuesdays and Thursdays and that is pretty set
9:46
in stone with my team. Um, you know, there's some things I
9:49
can't control like a court hearing, right, but to descend
9:52
that I can control things I'm very protective of my time and
9:56
when I do things, and so you know, for For me and my team,
10:00
it's you know, knowing, you know, when I'll see clients,
10:04
when am I doing legal work? When am I doing, you know, the HR
10:07
side of things, when am I running the business side of
10:09
things. And so, you know, there's different time blocks in
10:13
my calendar that I'm very protective of, but I have to be,
10:17
in order to have my practice in my personal life, to be able to
10:22
juggle those, I can't just take client calls at any time, and
10:26
they they have to be scheduled beforehand. And so it's even
10:28
just small things like that, as far as not taking unscheduled
10:31
phone calls, to help protect your time. So I think it depends
10:35
on what the issue is that we're talking about, and identifying
10:39
how to protect that. And then you do have to be able to
10:42
vocalise that to those around you that, you know, you know,
10:47
whatever that boundary is, whether it's your, your picking
10:49
your time, whether it's, you know, work or personal life,
10:54
identifying those boundaries, and then being very clear, and
10:56
then being comfortable saying them and honouring them. That
11:00
was a really long answer. I'm sorry.
11:03
Melinda Lee: No, I think it was really clear i Yeah, no, it's
11:07
true. The block time is so critical, because that can and
11:13
you said I like the more protective because it's just,
11:16
you're protecting that time. And it's not because you're
11:20
protecting it is it but it all integrates, because you're
11:22
protecting this time at work, so that you can also protect the
11:26
time that you have with your family. Exactly,
11:28
Darcel Lobo: exactly. Right on. And so yeah, when I have, you
11:32
know, a two hour time block to get legal work done, I'm not
11:35
answering phone calls, I'm not checking emails, I'm not on
11:38
social, like I'm not doing these other distractions, because I
11:41
can get a lot done. If I have a two hour block to get my legal
11:44
work done, I can get a lot done if I just focus on that task at
11:48
hand and not have all the distractions. And so it allows
11:52
me to, you know, leave the office at noon on a Friday,
11:54
right? And it allows me to go to my daughter's Girl Scouts, my
11:57
son's basketball games and to do these things, because I'm very
12:01
disciplined about how I manage my time. Yeah.
12:04
Melinda Lee: Do you coach people on how to commute? What did they
12:07
have a difficult time on? On breaking the news to somebody?
12:13
Darcel Lobo: Yeah, I think that requires us to kind of delve
12:14
deeper on as to why it's so hard. Right? In hell for that
12:18
individual person. What what is it about that conversation that
12:22
that is so hard? Is it about a particular person that you can't
12:26
communicate, you know, well with? Is it the people pleasing
12:29
aspect, is it you know, so what is the underlying issue behind
12:32
the why is it so hard? And just because we have boundaries? And
12:35
we say, No, it doesn't mean that we're being rude. It doesn't
12:39
mean that we're, you know, being, you know, mean, or
12:42
anything and how we communicate, it's just, you know, I can't do
12:45
this right now. But here's what I can do it, I'd be happy to
12:47
help you, you know, or whatever the conversation needs to be,
12:50
but doesn't have to be a negative conversation. I think
12:53
for a lot of times, my clients, there's a negative connotation
12:56
to having boundaries and saying no, but I think you know,
13:00
protecting, you know, your time for yourself, like you can in
13:03
turn get all the things that you need to get done. I don't see
13:06
that as a negative at all.
13:07
Melinda Lee: Right. Right. Especially if we know the why
13:10
why. Right behind it. Right. Yeah, like justifying a lot. No,
13:16
because I have to do this. Yeah. Media justifying giving so many
13:21
explanations. Right.
13:23
Darcel Lobo: Right. And, you know, you hear that, you know,
13:25
no, is a complete sentence. Right.
13:29
Melinda Lee: Exactly. I've had to learn that I'm still learning
13:32
that I'm still practising that. Right.
13:35
Darcel Lobo: Right. Right. Right. So yeah, I mean, it's
13:36
definitely something that, you know, everybody, you know,
13:39
needs, you know, help with and kind of navigating and getting
13:41
comfortable. Especially if you come from, you know, a
13:44
background or a childhood where, you know, you didn't say no,
13:47
when you did say yes, and you were a people pleaser, and you
13:50
didn't want to disappoint. So to now, be told that you should say
13:53
no, it's like, you feel bad for it, you know, like, it's a
13:56
negative thing, but it doesn't, it doesn't have to be
13:59
Melinda Lee: right. And it's not because otherwise I mean, we It
14:03
doesn't do us, me them any good. If I keep on saying yes to
14:07
everybody. Yeah.
14:10
Darcel Lobo: Right. Or even worse, you say yes, then you
14:13
can't deliver it. Yeah, right. You can't deliver you you're
14:17
late with meeting your deadlines. You end up missing
14:21
your son's you know, basketball game, or whatever it is because
14:24
you've overextended yourself, like that's so much worse to
14:27
tell the person Yes, the problem is something and then you can't
14:30
deliver, like that fits worst to me. I'd rather be honest, and
14:35
saying that, you know, I can't do so you know, right now, but
14:38
how's this date? How's this time? You know, or, or whatever
14:41
the conversation needs to be, and to be honest with yourself
14:44
and look the person.
14:45
Melinda Lee: Right, right. And it can't just be a no not right
14:49
now. Right? Like, yeah, maybe later on another date. Right.
14:53
Right. Like you said, people have people I think people
14:57
respect it more when you could give Um, in another date or?
15:02
Yeah.
15:03
Darcel Lobo: Also like you, when you're able to keep your word,
15:07
right, if you're disappointing someone, if you're not keeping
15:09
your own commitments or not in the timeframe that you've agreed
15:13
to, you know, you're disappointing lemon you, right?
15:16
I mean, you're not developing a very good reputation for
15:19
yourself either. Right. And so I think being able to be honest
15:25
with yourself and with them, and then to be able to deliver, you
15:29
know, on time, as you said, you would, I think it just goes a
15:33
lot further. Yeah.
15:36
Melinda Lee: Do you have a story that you could share with
15:39
someone that you supported? And what was the result?
15:43
Darcel Lobo: Um, goodness, you know, when my clients come to
15:46
me, it's, you know, it is predominantly is lawyers that I
15:49
work with who, you know, do have their own law firms. Um, you
15:54
know, and for, you know, one client in particular that I've
15:57
worked with recently, it was about her her fees, and not
16:04
feeling, you know, worthy of charging what she was worth,
16:09
always discounting her fees, writing down her fees under
16:13
Billing. And, you know, when we first started, it was, okay, we
16:19
need to get to the root as to why, why do you feel bad about
16:23
earning, you know, what your worth and look at the value you
16:26
deliver, and the legal service that she provided, it was such a
16:29
value to her clients, and her clients weren't complaining
16:32
about her her bills and her her her fees, it was, she had this
16:37
internal guilt that we had to kind of work through and on,
16:41
unpack, you know, and really focus on the value that she's
16:45
delivering to her clients. And that was really a roadblock for
16:49
her and she was kind of plateaued, and her firm at her
16:52
income level, because she just couldn't get out of her own way.
16:56
It was nobody else telling her that her fees are too high, or
16:59
that she needed to reduce her fees, it was herself in her own
17:02
way. And so I think probably my clients, you know, it's just the
17:05
economy with its, they're in their own way. It's not any one
17:09
else a lot of times and you know, for myself, all right, is,
17:13
you know, that infinite voice in your head, the fear or the
17:16
imposter syndrome, whatever, you know, emotion that is attached
17:21
to it, it's like, how can we unpack that to help you get to
17:25
where you want to go on that next step. And so that's kind of
17:27
an example that I would help a client, you know, work with in
17:31
their law firm, or, you know, kind of time management,
17:34
productivity, improving systems and processes in your firm,
17:39
helping them increase their bottom line to be more
17:41
profitable in their law firms are kind of things that I see a
17:45
lot. And a lot of times those conversations, we start with the
17:48
professional issue, but there's usually some personal issues
17:50
that it all kind of comes together, right? I mean, they're
17:53
not, they're not isolated. Right. And so usually, it all
17:57
kind of ties together. So we start with this professional
18:00
issue. And then we kind of our unpacking some personal issues,
18:03
our internal, you know, baggage that they're having to help them
18:06
have a, you know, a happier life and a happier law firm, which is
18:09
really my goal for my clients. Right?
18:11
Melinda Lee: Because you're, you're about their outcome. And
18:13
if you're in the results, and yeah, totally, to change the
18:18
result, we have to go in where we have to go to Yeah,
18:20
Darcel Lobo: we have to do some cleanup work usually. Yeah. Yes.
18:25
Melinda Lee: But that's where the real result happens is
18:27
sustainable ones.
18:29
Darcel Lobo: Yeah. So I think, you know, when when we do that
18:32
work, you know, the client is, you know, coming, you know, is
18:36
coming from internal. Right, so I'm helping them find it from
18:39
inside and to bring it out of them. Right, you know, and so, I
18:43
mean, there's some things reconcile my client okay, you
18:45
know, you should do this, this and this, you know, as far as
18:48
their law firms, but I think the real magic happens in a real
18:51
long term change happens when I help them finding answers from
18:54
within most of my clients know what they need to do, I just
18:58
have to help them bring it out and then help them be
19:00
accountable to themselves to make sure the change actually
19:02
happens.
19:03
Melinda Lee: Right? Right. And it is mean accountability is so
19:08
key especially because otherwise they would have done it a while
19:10
ago but it's doing this internal work to create a different
19:14
outcome. We need accountability someone to just be there for us
19:18
especially when we want to retreat back to where we want it
19:21
to. Yeah, go back to our old pattern.
19:24
Darcel Lobo: Yeah, and especially when my client is
19:26
like they're so busy putting out the fires every day yeah, that
19:30
doing this you know clean up internal work which will be
19:33
better for them in the long run but and then mediate day to day
19:36
is not the priority so I help them to make it a priority in
19:39
their lives so we can have the long term change changes for the
19:43
better that they're looking for.
19:44
Melinda Lee: Yeah. I'm gonna do the same thing right now. If
19:48
you're on my YouTube channel, you can see that I'm a little
19:51
stuffy and but because I love you all so much, I'm I work
19:56
through this I wanted to be with Darcel today, to be yawn. This I
20:00
think this is an amazing lots of insight on this episode where
20:05
especially for us busy folks who are trying to manage both our
20:08
professional life and our personal lives, so many gold
20:11
nuggets, thank you so much Darcelle for sharing these
20:15
pieces, your experiences and what you can do for your
20:17
clients. How can people find you, whether it's were your
20:21
attorney services or coaching? Yeah,
20:24
Darcel Lobo: so my coaching website is dowel coaching.com
20:27
DHL coaching.com, or on LinkedIn. I'm at Darcelle Lobo.
20:32
And I think I'm the only Darcelle Lobo on LinkedIn. So I
20:35
should be pretty easy.
20:36
Melinda Lee: Oh, wow.
20:39
Darcel Lobo: And so yeah, so yeah, LinkedIn, you know,
20:42
Darcelle Lobo, or doubt coaching.com. I have some free
20:46
resources on my website about managing your time and how to
20:49
run your business more efficiently. And then also have
20:53
a free daily planner on the website as well. So a few
20:56
freebies on the website. So I would love to you know, grab a
20:59
freebie and if I can be of help to you, feel free to reach out.
21:02
Melinda Lee: Great to reach out grab those for you these get the
21:07
resources and thank you so much. Darcelle appreciate your time
21:12
and your experience and sharing what your your wisdom with us.
21:16
Oh, well, thank
21:17
Darcel Lobo: you so much. Thanks for having me on.
21:18
Melinda Lee: Thank you, and I'm gonna do some self care. Bye bye