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The Truth About AI Transformation: Why Most Companies Only Get 10% of the Value · 10X AI with Julius Neil

• Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Good day, everyone. We're back here now at 10xAI with Julius Neil. I'm here with Hiba Alamarin. She is a PhD student currently right now. And what struck me about inviting her to the podcast is her post about the AI transformation, which is not really improving the organizational structure and organizational efficiency. So Hiba, can you introduce yourself to our viewers and listeners and tell them about your background? Hiba Alammarin: Good evening, everyone. ⁓ My name is Hiba, Lauren Salamarin. I'm a PhD student right now at Linnaeus in Sweden, ⁓ doing some research on AI, ⁓ AI enabled. digital So to see how can enhance the relationship between artificial intelligence and the leadership ⁓ making the organization be able run in this of technology, especially during the difficulties the competition also as well. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, about the ⁓ AI transformation being able to do the improvements that this, hype about AI. So in that specific ⁓ research about AI transformation with empirical result that is not translating to improvements. Can you describe that research? Hiba Alammarin: There is a lot of research about the transformation and artificial intelligence and organization and leadership. But the is still, we have insight about We don't have fair enough research ⁓ to ⁓ do judgment ⁓ the impact of and digital transformation is really on the organization. ⁓ We have ⁓ by doing research ⁓ that AI can enhance the productivity. AI also can enhance give good results to organizations, ⁓ in the finance and in the banking. ⁓ ⁓ still don't understand exactly what kind of impact can artificial intelligence do the organization. ⁓ In term, we mean that it depends on how we use the AI, actually. Are we using the AI as a tool or are we putting the AI in our strategy? depends on the using, then we can see. There is a lot of empirical research ⁓ also by giving numbers ⁓ how much the productivity and the enhancements can be in the organization AI can be considered as a digital transformation tool. So when it comes to the digital transformation, digital transformation is a culture shift in the organization. It starts by digitization, ⁓ transforming, for example, a document to a PDF, ⁓ and then digitization, which means and take care about the processes in the company. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Hiba Alammarin: coming to the end station, is digital transformation, which means that the culture of the organization has been digitally. So the AI can be considered one of those tools in the digital transformation journey. And coming back to the research you have mentioned, we have a lot of studies saying that we can get benefits from dealing with AI. For example, we have a study from MIT the School of management says that research indicates that firms that combine AI adoption with a process redesign, that's what mean by digitalization, digital transformation, digitalization, okay, with a process redesign, they outperform more than those can ⁓ only simply use So AI works best. actually when organizations restructure the work around tools, not the tools around the work itself. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so that's the thing most of the companies now when they do AI they don't change anything in their their traditional frameworks in the organization So what they do is they get some consultant, do this plan and then do the AI transformation and then from there they figure out how to do that And that is why most of the companies are failing Based on your based on the yeah. ⁓ Hiba Alammarin: Exactly. Exactly, and that's what we also used to say sometimes that AI, are building AI on an old system, an old infrastructure. And we mean by that the procedures, the processes, how do our work, the workflows. ⁓ We don't only the infrastructure itself. We mean also the processes, the leadership styles we are And we have seen a lot of... phenomenon now by using AI without responsibility and how the cybersecurity of countries can be damaged. So that's why AI is very good, but we have to know exactly how to use it. We have also a study from McKinsey, for example, saying that more than 60 % of companies, they are using AI, okay? And they are experimenting AI, but only 20 to 30 % of them Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Yeah. Hiba Alammarin: We have also a study from McKinsey, for example, saying that more than 60 % of companies, they are using AI, okay? And they are experimenting AI, but only 20 to 30 % of them actually see real financial results. actually see real financial results. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Okay. Hiba Alammarin: So we are not talking about technology in these numbers. We are talking about the leadership and organizational processes. When it comes to getting benefits from AI, executives have to take in consideration AI strategy, set clear goals, sure results, and invest in training their employees. If we are going only to bring AI tools and just like ⁓ people or let our employees only using them without any strategy, without any plans, then we will not be expecting high results by that. It can be a disadvantage for the organization. It can be a stress factor. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes, correct. on the research, for example, if you already have some ⁓ research that you have read about, there are traditional frameworks that they are using or traditional systems or enterprises that they are using currently in their organization. And then what they do is put the AI as a layer. This is another layer for the traditional. So most of these things do not really, communicate or do not really streamline with each other because traditional models cannot be... AI cannot override that. And then that's the way that the friction is. So what do you think should be the first thing the first leadership should do or the organization should do to be able to integrate or streamline the traditional frameworks and then also the new the AI layer that they wanted to implement. Hiba Alammarin: There is a paradox that has been existing in the work environment and in academia as well called augmentation paradox. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Okay. Hiba Alammarin: But what we mean by automation and augmentation, it's just to answer your question, what we mean by automation and augmentation, automation is when the machine does the work, okay, on behalf of people. Augmentation means when both human and AI, okay, machines can do the work and collaborate to do the tasks. So what is really now in the organization is that ⁓ organizations thinks that we can go directly to the automation and replace our employees by automating some tasks. However, there was a study coming from Stanford University on human AI collaboration showing that hybrid teams actually ⁓ outperform human alone or AI alone. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes. Hiba Alammarin: a study from Stanford University on the human AI showing that hybrid teams actually ⁓ outperform either human alone or AI alone. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: okay. Hiba Alammarin: The approach is not like whether we are gonna choose AI or humans. The approach is to make the alignment, to make the balance by the human intelligence and the AI intelligence. That's why the same study says that those organizations who win, those who are able to design ⁓ collaboration ⁓ between humans and artificial intelligence. Coming back to the approach we are going to choose or how we are going to put the layers of AI or how to embed it, it's like a balanced between automation, ⁓ the machine will do everything, or the whether the human will do everything, and ⁓ together the artificial intelligence machines, Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Okay, so because you already mentioned about this, so when AI fails to improve performance, it's usually the missing leadership capability, or the governance, or the culture, task design, or something else. So what do you think should the organization should do first? Hiba Alammarin: Exactly. The is that AI is considered as a tool. So when it comes to the tool, we have many considerations. Let's say about the decision-making's accountability, for example. Because today, AI is working with us together on the same board ⁓ ⁓ also decisions and giving decisions. So ⁓ it comes to the accountability, let's say if the chatbot, for example, gives a wrong answer. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Hiba Alammarin: So that, ⁓ how we are going to ⁓ with accountability? Is the employee or is it the machine itself? So that's why we have have those policies. We have to have the governance. ⁓ We have know exactly how to do ⁓ when we changing the work, we are ⁓ doing our So AI itself, then also we have something also else which is very important. For example, ⁓ in the Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Hiba Alammarin: AI can be able to generate marketing content. if we are not embedding the tool in our strategy to know exactly whether we are going to continue with this tool or not by measuring the results and having also clear KPIs, Performance Indicators, then we are not going to be able to... Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes, we are using it now. Hiba Alammarin: to know exactly if we are on the wrong track or on the right track in the future. We don't have to forget as an organization or as leaders that we have vision and we have goals. We have business plan in our organization. is a tool to help us compete and get the most advantage of them. But it's not a replacement to our business plan. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, that's correct. So one of them I guess already mentioned in this, in order for us to be able to be successful in the AI transformation, first we need to change also the job description. should also integrate the job description when it comes to AI. Yeah, the job description of the person, the task, we need to adapt all of those from the job description, from the leadership, from the culture, from the vision. Everything must be streamlined. streamlined based on the strategy of AI transformation. do you think is AI adoption now is more of a technology initiative disguised as transformation? Because most people will say, when use AI in their organization, it's just basically everybody's using ChatGPT or copilot. Is it just a technology initiative or it's it's already a transformation? Hiba Alammarin: I This is what first tried me also. It's the superficial use of AI. And dealing with it, we're with it as a cosmetic tool for the organization. ⁓ exactly, you mentioned using Chat, GPT to write emails or tools like analyzing some data's without clear strategy, any reconnection to organization, the organizational performance. This a cosmetic tool. This is not an AI. ⁓ Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes. Okay. Hiba Alammarin: with an organization, if we can say ⁓ funny words. There a broken relationship, okay, sometimes, or misconceptions between ⁓ how are actually considering AI as a strategic shift, okay, enhancing our competitions ⁓ and value proposition in the market, ⁓ and considering AI as only ⁓ some we just like both and... gave to our employees. Sometimes companies use AI without any clear plan. This is how, and is the biggest problem actually. The company which use AI to only generate marketing content as I mentioned, but they are not able to make sure it actually ⁓ increase ⁓ sales or it the customer experience. They are not gonna be able to to change in the future because there is no clear KPIs in the real time. So how we are gonna change for the future if we don't know exactly now if this is work or not working. Another also factor is that they don't also ⁓ the way they work. As I said, companies add, they are adding AI on the top of old ⁓ without redesigning work, without redesigning how we take decisions, exactly like adding a ⁓ engine to a car and we still have a broken wheel. So if we are not able to, ⁓ will not be able to redesign the workflows and work processes, ⁓ will not be ⁓ able to ⁓ the benefits of AI. Absolutely we will get benefits. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, okay, yes. Hiba Alammarin: But in this term, I'm saying that's what I mean, that we are maybe 10 % of the benefits that AI could ⁓ to the organizations. Because AI can deliver more than that. Then also leaders ⁓ don't fully understand how we gonna implement AI. And ⁓ especially that, it comes also when they approve AI projects without understanding the risk of. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hmm. Hiba Alammarin: the way that AI will change the processes for their employees or for the security, yeah, over the cybersecurity for the information they are ⁓ Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes, correct. So it's very important for them to be able to see the security risk. And then what are the mitigation to be able to, for example, preserve the data, the data privacy and all the information that they have into that model. So how do you think should leaders redesign work differently in an AI enabled organization? Because most of the leaders know, for example, they have 20 or 30 years experience and AI is so new, So the way they think, they are wired to think that transformation project for AI is going to be linear, which I think is not going to be linear right now because there are several other things that AI can do all at the same time. Before, you can just phase one, phase two, phase three, phase four, but now ⁓ maybe phase one, two, three, and four, they can do it simultaneously and then they interact with each other and then they learn from each other. eventually will be able to have that good foundation and benchmark for the organization. What do you think? Hiba Alammarin: I think also something I also have read in academia and I have seen by my eyes in the real life, okay? It's about, yeah, and that's why I'm convinced about this answer. It's about the balance, getting the balance between human intelligence and the AI. can go, we can start from the ⁓ job tasks, okay, or work tasks. ⁓ Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Uh-huh. Yes, okay. Hiba Alammarin: What kind of work tasks are we dealing with? Are we dealing with something repeatedly happening in our organization, administration and something doesn't need any human ⁓ judgment something like that? Then we can use the AI. We can automate, we can fully automate tasks in this term. When it comes to the judgment, when it comes to the ethical concerns, for example, if we are like exploring some new systems sometimes if we are exploring like ⁓ something for our well-being employees then we have to make the judgment on this term ⁓ and can't like it depends on the AI or in the machine and to get the decision to get decisions in this term so that's why ⁓ the ⁓ or solution ⁓ for the advantage and not filling in the gaps in the AI area is about getting the balance between where to automate and where to augment tasks. Automate, is fully, fully, fully depends on the machine and augment where the collaboration, where the collaboration should be happened between humans and AI. So it depends on the task, depends on what kind of tasks do we have, we can take the decisions around that. And then we have also to remember that Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Hiba Alammarin: It has to be embedded in our strategy. We have also to make clear judgment about that our future tools will be one, two, three, four. Otherwise, it will be like only an individual initiative with departments. example, those big companies, it can be like some individuals working in the HR using AI tools, other working in the finance, doesn't ⁓ use ⁓ at So we have also a... an imbalance between our employees in the same organization. That's why it has to come from the strategic level to the employees instead of the formal operation to the strategy level. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: so we already talked about the job description. So there's another thing that employers wanted to know, the employee productivity. So what do you think would be the basis now if an ⁓ is using AI? What is the KPI now for the employee productivity? Because you're going to remove the repetitive tasks. So maybe before, when I'm working in a front desk, I do the repetitive, for example, all the data entry, getting all the names, for example, customer service, and then these are all not automated. Now it's automated, it's 60 % before, now it becomes 10%. How would you now define the employee productivity when your organization is already AI enabled? Hiba Alammarin: asking a very good and important question. You're asking a question that academia has not answered yet. This is ⁓ gap. ⁓ have reviewed many articles talking about the artificial intelligence and about the about ⁓ how we ⁓ et cetera. There is Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Hiba Alammarin: an urgent call for academia to investigate on how we mature our productivity with using AI. This is a good gap right now. That's why also this part of my working right now to ⁓ identify exactly what kind of factors with organizations could play a role. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes. Mm-hmm. Hiba Alammarin: in the successful embedding ⁓ in implementation or if AI implementation should be considered as a failure with an organization. Also as well ⁓ for leaders, for the executives who are responsible for questions also, ⁓ are we with a leader who is able to ⁓ get decisions what of tools do we actually need in our organizations ⁓ or not? about their talents for in the future, ⁓ the market is going to go, ⁓ we are going to redefine value propositions in the market. So there is a lot of factors. We also an assessment. We have used it ⁓ before with the transformations. And it has to It has to be enhanced to be also able to make sure the AI We have made sure 88 variable just for knowing if organization is ready ⁓ for digital for their employees or ⁓ The transformation also ⁓ something is very ⁓ Digital transformation or technology ⁓ is considered as a management. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Hiba Alammarin: Change management for itself can be considered as a stress factor for employees. So think about when we doing ⁓ transformation with organization without a plan, okay, ⁓ then stress will be ⁓ 10x for employees. ⁓ That's there's many factors, there's many variables, okay, both for the organizations, for the leaders, for the executives. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Yes, correct, correct. Hiba Alammarin: has to be considered to be able to know that this AI transformation is, or organization is ready to do the AI transformation or not. ⁓ So why we have urgent call to investigate on how we are going to measure this transformation. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so you mentioned about you identified 88 variables to be able to decide whether an organization is for digital transformation or AI transformation. Can you give me some examples of those variables? Hiba Alammarin: visionary ⁓ Is this executive leader has the visionary thinking? Can like discover exactly ⁓ in good time ⁓ that have to invest in XAI tool, for example, or technology tool for ⁓ making like profit to XOR, like that. ⁓ Our also ability to innovate as well. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hiba Alammarin: our ability to be creative, creatives, our skills or our talent to consider also that while we are changing, we have also employees who are considering changes in their work. So we have also to keep well-being. So they will not crash in the middle of the journey or in the beginning of the journey. ⁓ is many factors playing a role and ⁓ we do that, Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes. Okay. I'm Hiba Alammarin: before we do technology changes in organization. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so now you gave me a broad overview of how AI transformation is going to be because usually when we see our AI transformation and also in my previous guest, we usually talk about people first and then the other who are more on technology side, talk about the technology, the data, the quality of data, but nobody still, nobody have these variables that you're talking about. how are we going to make sure that the organization is ready for that. So when you identify this 88 variables based on your research, it a questionnaire type or is it quantitative or qualitative? Hiba Alammarin: It's a questionnaire type, okay, matching those variables. And then we can also make like alignment between, for example, I can give an example for a real example, coming from an organization, mentioning the names. The strategy thinking has been, their ability to make strategic goals has been 150, but their achieving has been 60. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Yes, Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay, so 150 means what? For our viewers and listeners. So 150 means what? And then 60 means what? Yeah. Hiba Alammarin: It's a gap. It's a gap. It's a gap. We need to do that. We are going to do that. And A, B, C, D, F goals, But we are not able to achieve many of them. It's a gap. And it's a stress factor also as well, because this is a change management. When we set a goal and we are going to work on this goal, to achieve it, then we have to change. There is a process, there is a journey from the strategy to the operation, to the implementation, to achieving and to making the report of results. So when we have the 150 or 160 strategic thinking or the strategic goals and then we in achieving it comes to 60, with this gap it means that they are not understanding what's happening in the real. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Okay, okay, okay, no, that's quite interesting. That's quite interesting now. Yeah Hiba Alammarin: the reality in the real time and it's a huge problem. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so when you, for example, you did all these variables, variable analysis for them. And then when you present that to the companies, what is their, for example, your real life example, this is 160, you're only at 60. And then you say that you cannot be, you cannot start your AI transformation, digital transformation. What's the reaction of the top management or the CEO level or CXO levels? Hiba Alammarin: the most reaction we have gotten was that this is very accurate. This is very accurate. One of the answers we got also that, my God, no, you have talked to our employees before you came. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So imagine. Alright, and then, okay, that's good because... Hiba Alammarin: Yeah, because it's made sure their ability to set strategic goals and to deal with those goals and also to how they are doing in the operation. So we are like, we are doing an MRI picture, okay, or photo, if you can call it for the body. What's an MRI photo? We can like see everything what's happening in the organization. Because 88 variables, they are very, exactly. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: ⁓ hey, okay. and quite extensive, yeah, it's very quite extensive and rigorous, you know, assessment of the organization, which is the first time I heard about this. And then that's good that I know that there are systems or frameworks that like you are using to be able to make sure that the transformation will be successful. you said to the top management, okay, you... You failed. You cannot have this AI transformation. So what's their next step? Do they stop or they just ask you, okay, where do we start from here? do just, okay, we will come back to you and will reassess again? What's the reaction usually? Hiba Alammarin: Yes, and this is also a very good question because we used to say that digital transformation is a culture shift. We come back to people. Now we have good AI or technology tools surrounding us and we have evolution of those tools coming every day. We can't catch up with all of them. ⁓ when it comes to the executive, if the leader is considered that they have to change something, Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes. Hiba Alammarin: then we can continue consultations work and how to start, where to start, how the priority list should be, should look like. ⁓ if they are not considered about that, there is a problem, then this is the biggest problem actually, before ⁓ AI and the technology and everything else, that ⁓ are not convincing that they have to start and do something, then it's problem. We have to talk to them ⁓ many but ⁓ if are not considered that. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Hiba Alammarin: the convention that they have to change, then we can change them. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: ⁓ okay, we we discuss about those organizations who wanted to do the transfer AI transformation now for example Do you have that experience or research about those companies who are already doing the AI transformation and then you reassess their transformation because they're saying nothing is happening to us Everything is broken people are stressed, you know people are resigning and all this So do you have that research already in your site? Hiba Alammarin: No, this is my current research. Yes, this is my current research. This is my PhD research on discovering the factors of that plays role in the organization's life cycle and what kind of capabilities and skills do the leaders to be able to lead in the age of AI. ⁓ ⁓ this is a gap in the academia. This is a huge, also urgent call from the Julius Neil Buenconsejo: ⁓ okay. All right, okay. Hiba Alammarin: life in the companies. ⁓ that and everyone who can hear that who read in the academia, they know that this is a gap, this is a huge gap. We know ⁓ there's a number of companies, they are using AI tools, ⁓ but how use those tools, ⁓ what kind impact of those tools, ⁓ we maximizing benefits of those tools? ⁓ We still know exactly how to measure. ⁓ We have like... individual we can say initiatives by like approaching how to mature but we don't have empirically research on that. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, okay. So for example, when you started the research proposal or of course your research proposal already approved, so what is the hypothesis that you put before the research? What are the types of hypothesis that you in the paper that made the research valuable the organizations or for the institution? Hiba Alammarin: I made questions for this paper and yeah, I started by what kind of capabilities and the skills do leaders and executives need to be able to lead in the age of AI? How we define if the organization is ready for an AI enabled digital transformation or ⁓ how we ⁓ this is second question, we can define? Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, yeah. Hiba Alammarin: if the organization is ready for AI enabled digital transformation. third question was about an for measuring the readiness of organization ⁓ for this of transformation and also as for the leaders. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, you mentioned about the instrument. you think there will be a standard instrument to be able to... Hiba Alammarin: It has to be. It has to be. We need many instruments actually, not one. We need also to make this kind of comparing between those instruments if we are getting benefits really of them or not. And in academia, we can't depend on one instrument to make sure if we are discussing in general, the topic in general, we can't depend on one instrument coming from one research. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Okay. Hiba Alammarin: We have to have quite enough researches, research on that. We have to have some people who have also, did the empirical research on validating these instruments ⁓ make sure that the results are real and valid. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, okay. All right. Okay, so how about when it comes to the governance in your research? part of the ⁓ the governance? Hiba Alammarin: The governance is not a part actually of my research. I have mentioned about the importance of governance in AI with AI, but my specialty is focusing on the capabilities needed to lead the organization with the age of AI. For example, the communication, the judgment. the visionary thinking, we have many variables, have many capabilities, we have many ⁓ should learn should train themselves on them to be able to ⁓ both the human capital and the AI capital. In the previous leaders have only led ⁓ human and it was like, ⁓ and many researchers on that. But today we are leading both human capital and AI capital and we still ⁓ don't exactly. what kind of impact or how the relationships and interactions is occurring between humans and leaders and organizations, those ⁓ Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so can you define in academic perspective what is an AI capital? Hiba Alammarin: AI capital could be an agent, for example. Human capital could be like a project manager and an assistant and our staff, but the AI capital could be our agents. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mmm, okay, okay, okay, okay. Okay, the agents that we're using. All right. So also earlier you mentioned about that there are a lot of AI transformation success when it comes to finance and banking sectors. Have you seen that also in the Middle East and in Saudi Arabia that most of the banking and finance sectors are reaping the rewards of AI this early stage of AI age? Hiba Alammarin: Okay. They are doing a huge shift here in how we deal with the banking and how we deal with the finance sector, also in the healthcare as well, not only in the finance and the banking. Yeah, as I said, something which is very important in your question, I have to mention also, it comes back to the digital transformation research on... ⁓ Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. haha Hiba Alammarin: Digital transformation is something around the user experience. Our user in this term could be our client, ⁓ could be ⁓ worker itself or the employee itself. ⁓ ⁓ it comes to the user, everything we are doing for the user benefits and ⁓ giving more value for the user, then we are on the right way. when it comes to that we are just only automating or doing transformation for modernity, then we are on the wrong way. that's why we need to pick up from our users if we are on the right track not. That's what's happening right now in Saudi Arabia. So there is a lot of transformation regarding ⁓ users Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Hiba Alammarin: both in ⁓ healthcare and banking in many sectors and at the same time that they are trying to collect their insights. So there's improvements there. There are enhancements every year for just like enhancing the ⁓ of the users or the experience. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so in real life example in Saudi Arabia, for example, in healthcare, how do they apply ⁓ use cases of this AI their organization for the healthcare? Can you give us one or two examples of how did they improve on that? Hiba Alammarin: how to give auto-systems on what? Julius Neil Buenconsejo: I mean the healthcare industry, you said that not even the healthcare industry in Saudi Arabia, are implementing transformation. So what are the examples of the things that they have ⁓ ⁓ artificial intelligence in their organization or in their institutions? Hiba Alammarin: Mm. also existing in Sweden as well, ⁓ in Transylvania. For example, the healthcare record, it's not an AI enabled in term, but it's fully digitally, okay? ⁓ So there's records, ⁓ you can can book appointments through ⁓ the applications. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes. OK. Okay. Hiba Alammarin: They can also collect insights from ⁓ clients and then they can analyze them by using AI tools. So the journey the patient to the doctor, can be fully digitally. You can meet doctors by only like meeting them by the apps. You don't need to visit the hospital if you don't need to do that fully. So experience is exactly as it been in Sweden, ⁓ but are trying to enhance about the data analysis of those clients to make sure that the experience their expectations. So in this term, they are using AI tools to analyze those, ⁓ or maybe to expect ⁓ the inquiries from the clients so they know exactly. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Hiba Alammarin: how to be a lady. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, how about in Saudi Arabia? What can you give an example? Which industry, banking, you have seen, you know, this ⁓ transformation or ⁓ least some AI initiatives? Hiba Alammarin: have launched now for almost maybe days or one month ago. ⁓ have established SDAIA has that. ⁓ It is platform, okay, because you that the in our formal education is not quite enough to ⁓ teach about the AI. So that's why they established a platform. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Hiba Alammarin: They called it Athka X and it means that platform will help people in educating themselves, making a training track for user to use this platform. For example, if I can register on this platform, I can give the chatbot what kind of qualification, what kind of I had before. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Hiba Alammarin: and then what kind of expectation or wishes for my career pathway. So ⁓ the AI will analyze all the ⁓ data you have to the platform ⁓ then they will ⁓ you kind of courses on the side ⁓ and making a plan, a whole plan for you to be able. to do those courses. At the end of those courses, you will be able to get certifications from SDAIA is a governmental authority for artificial intelligence and data here in Saudi Arabia. So they are trying to train their citizens on intelligence and on technology. by using this platform and this platform is using AI to analyze exactly what kind of qualification you already have and what kind of qualification you are missing. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Wow, that's nice. You have a separate entity or a government agency that only handles all this AI ⁓ transformation for the citizens of Saudi Arabia. Wow, that's good. Is it only in Saudi Arabia? It's also in Qatar, in Dubai, or mean UAE. Hiba Alammarin: Yes. Yes, they. don't know if there is a separate ⁓ in the GCC countries, ⁓ you mentioned are GCC countries, but here in Saudi Arabia they have a special authority only for the data and artificial intelligence. And think they are also in the citizens. They know that the colleges, the universities, they not able to get all those participants at the same time. We all know that there is no capacity in the university to let people be enrolled in those kind of courses or programs. At the same time, are talking specials about people who are working. They are not able to get out from their work to go to the university or to institutions only to work. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah. Hiba Alammarin: So this is a completely full digital environment, environment ⁓ be able to catch up with the technology, tech environments, if we can say that, ⁓ and with artificial intelligence tools. ⁓ Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Is this available for everyone or only residents also? Hiba Alammarin: It's for citizens right now, I think so. And going to be able for all of them. As also something important, this platform in collaboration with the big unicorns in technology as MIT, IBM. ⁓ So SDAIA collaborating big entities in ⁓ the world just to enhancing Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hmm, okay. Hiba Alammarin: the digital transformation and the artificial intelligence journeys for the citizens and for the organizations as well. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: I'm so happy to hear that the AI transformation or the AI industry in the Middle East is really booming. They said also in Dubai and in UAE, they're also ramping up with all the AI projects, similar to Doha also in Qatar. Okay, so for example, you were designing an AI readiness checklist for the board. And then what are the top five capabilities they must have before scaling AI? Hiba Alammarin: Mm. I will say one capability. All the research has agreed on it. It's the most important one. I will mention one of them because it's very important. It's the communication. Communication. Yes. Communication has been approved by research that is one of the most important ⁓ capability or what we can call it, leaders to have to be able to implement digital transformation or AI initiatives. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Okay ⁓ Like... Okay... Hiba Alammarin: Communication has been approved by research that is one of the most important ⁓ skilled capability leaders has to have to be able to implement digital transformation or AI initiatives. Without communication, we are not dealing with change processes or initiatives. How we are going to know if we are going to go forward or come back our project and like with some enhancements. So that's why communication is one of the most important. I used to say that also in all my ⁓ Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, the only thing is even before AI, pre-AI, communication is already a problem in most organizations. You understand that, right? And then now, yeah, it's a big problem. Yeah, so I don't know how is it going to be different now in the AI era, but I hope, know, with AI, you know, the communication and clarity of the message will be able to be better because AI... Hiba Alammarin: It's a big problem also as well. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: is based on data and then data doesn't lie so people will have the same data right the same data or the same you know the same information in front of them because that's the same thing that you know my yeah this is same thing that my previous ⁓ podcast ⁓ yes also mentioned that you know may be different cultures or different you know ways of interpreting but in mathematical models or in data there's no lying in that everybody will agree like what you said Everybody agrees in all of the research that communication is the number one that any board or any organization should have to be able to be ⁓ in scaling AI. Not only AI in ⁓ of other projects as well. Okay, for example, yeah, yeah, one of the, okay, continue. Hiba Alammarin: One of the conferences I have joined, was established by Sadaia also as well. It was here in Saudi Arabia, called ICANN 2026. I recommend all of people who are interested in AI topics to listen to these panels. They are recorded on YouTube. one of the... Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Hiba Alammarin: ⁓ Professors coming from Harvard Business Schools said that if you are as a leader only to give a tool to your secretary or to give it ⁓ away to the employees, then you are not dealing digital transformation. You are not doing anything with AI. are not understanding AI. So AI has be a strategically embedded process with our strategy. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Hiba Alammarin: and we have to have clear goals for that. We have also to have real KPIs measuring our work if we are to ⁓ continue it or we have to stop and ⁓ rethink how to with it. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so you're building an empirically validated AI readiness instrument in your PhD, correct? Hiba Alammarin: Yes. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, okay. So you already mentioned one. So what are the other dimensions most organizations underestimate when assessing readiness aside from communication? Hiba Alammarin: You mean for the organizations? Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes, for the organizations. What are those dimensions that they underestimate? Because most of the organization, for example, they said, okay, we wanted to do AI transformation. They hired consultants, know, then consultants asked, we want this, and then consultants dig in if they're ready or not. And then they thought that this is just, you know, like a software, it's like a Microsoft 365 or a Chat GPT that you just have to put in the traditional framework or layers. You just put it in a layer. But then again, what are those things that blind spots for them? Or that they have not assessed or they didn't know that they need that. ⁓ Hiba Alammarin: One of the most important aspects also in this discussion is running after modernity more than functional. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Okay. Hiba Alammarin: For example, yes, you see that there's many trendy tools in the market. So when it comes to organization or some decisions, says that we are going to implement ABC tool. So running after the modernity and how we are going to look like in front of our audience, instead of having tools doing some special functions in our organizations, we need to design a tool. We need to design a tech. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: You Hiba Alammarin: for our organization. So they are designing themselves after the technology that's existing in the market. This is one of the most dangerous aspects also. organizations underestimate it and ⁓ are not aware about how much costs as well. I have also heard from ⁓ Europe, there a company without mentioning the name, ⁓ they have... Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hahaha. Hiba Alammarin: They have invested thousands of only on the technologies. ⁓ ⁓ ⁓ year, the financial model was zero, nothing. ⁓ they spend money ⁓ on on digital tools, on AI tools, but without any ⁓ results. not Julius Neil Buenconsejo: I think so. Hiba Alammarin: Bringing AI tools or let's say digital tools. It's not about bringing digital tools to our company to run after the modernity and to see ourselves that we are digitalizing or digitizing our organization. Instead of that, we have to exactly what kind of strategy are we going to target. Okay, we are gonna move from ⁓ A to point B ⁓ the future. Then. If we are going to do that, business plan consists of one, two, three, four, ⁓ then we need the technology one, two, three, four to be able to achieve those goals. So ⁓ strategy starts from our business plan. It's not from the technology plan in the market outside of our organization. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so I agree with that. So with your example about the Sinaida, it is a government led right in Saudi Arabia, the Saudi Arabian education, I mean, AI education platform that you're saying. Yeah. So what lessons from this type of government level transformation, AI level, AL transformation are missing in the private sector? Why is it the Saudi Arabian government was to make this a success? Hiba Alammarin: Okay. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: versus the private sector who are just a small organization but still struggling to make it a ⁓ business ⁓ process in their organization. Hiba Alammarin: I didn't get your question exactly. Are you asking about the private sector or the public ⁓ Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So, for example, the government, you mentioned about this government-led AI transformation, which is very successful now. They collaborated with IBM, Stanford, and some other companies. And then lot of private sectors are not the same benefit of success versus the government-led initiative. What is the missing, you know, what is the gap? What is the missing piece that the government, or ⁓ the sector, I mean? are missing when it comes to implementing AI strategies. Hiba Alammarin: There is not, there is not, we can't say that the private sector doesn't success in that because there is many unicorns. are getting benefits from AI. They are doing many initiatives. They are raising their profits. The is ⁓ fantastic, ⁓ But this it's not about the private and the government, actually. The answer is about that how the organization. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Hiba Alammarin: It doesn't matter if it's private or sector is dealing with AI, with embedding AI. Because it doesn't matter if it's a private sector or it's public sector. have to have our strategy. We have to know exactly how to embed this transformation. It's the change management again. ⁓ we have to know exactly what kind of processes are we going to deal with them. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hiba Alammarin: ⁓ back to the public sector, public sector, have to work on governance because it's a public sector. They are the responsible ⁓ the citizens, for the privacy, for visions, ⁓ for country. So they have to establish those kinds of initiatives. ⁓ It's about making a It's about making the experience enhancing the quality of for the citizens. ⁓ So when it to... Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Hiba Alammarin: Comparing to the private and the public sector, I think it's not fair enough to compare because each one of them has its own goals its own objectives. The public aimed to ⁓ enhance the the life quality for their citizens while the private public is targeting the and maximizing their profit and also ⁓ keeping themselves in competition market. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so also there's also a clamor in the internet now or in LinkedIn that they're saying that in 18 months or so that the middle management will disappear. the white collar just will disappear because of AI. What do you think? Is there research about it or is it still, a prediction of ⁓ AI being able to eliminate this middle management? and then of course the blue color will be the most in demand. Hiba Alammarin: It reminds me with the... I wasn't born anyway in that time. It reminds me with this myth when they said that the technology will replace people and we will not have people, ⁓ ⁓ don't agree with that actually because when every technology comes or appear on the surface of our work environments, absolutely we have some functions in the organizations. It will be automated, it will be disappeared, okay? Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Hiba Alammarin: but we will also have completely new positions on the other side. So we will not be able to keep our work on the same way we are doing today exactly and say that we have 10 functions, for example, or 10 positions, and we have replaced them by using AI, for example. No, this is a myth. It will never happen. exactly as we... Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Hiba Alammarin: AI will replace people. AI will not replace people. AI will replace people who don't ⁓ how to use AI. This ⁓ right concept. But it comes to fully replacement AI ⁓ of people using AI, ⁓ Because we to something, it's important. AI has artificial intelligence systems or bots or etc. They are amazing by generating ideas, by seeing patterns, by discussing from many perspectives, but they are not good at making judgement. They are not good at making the theoretical flow of a proposal, for example, if it's aligned with themselves or not. So we still need the human factor in our work. ⁓ why also, I also mentioned in the beginning of our podcast that ⁓ the systems, ⁓ they have shown that are more successful, more than ⁓ working with alone with AI alone. ⁓ We still need, ⁓ AI can replace ⁓ in some ⁓ but humans are still able to replace AI with many skills at the same time. So we need this combination between those two factors to be able to get most benefits of them. ⁓ Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Correct. Okay, yes. So my last question before we go to the rapid 10 next round. If you had to leave leaders with one provocative statement or message about AI and performance, what would it be? Hiba Alammarin: would say combining intelligence with AI not just working harder but working smarter. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: That's good. thank you very much for that. So I'm going to go the last round of our podcast, which I do this for all the podcast sessions that I had. So first question, what's one tool you actually use every day? An AI tool. Hiba Alammarin: ChatGPT Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, what one task has already 10x in your life using AI? Hiba Alammarin: summarizing research papers. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Nice. I know I understand that. I'm a science background, chemistry background. Imagine you read tons and tons of pages of research just to be able to a small reference, or footnote for that, one sentence or two sentences that you're going to mention in your research. I understand Hiba Alammarin: is ⁓ one of most also tasks which is very important is that AI today is able to communicate with the PDFs ⁓ Sometimes we 60 pages of PDFs. I'm just looking for one answer for what? So AI is clever finding this Julius Neil Buenconsejo: I know, imagine before I was reading one book just to verify if that book or that reference will be able to be useful in my research. Now it's very easy, now it's very easy. So what's one human skill AI can ever replace? Hiba Alammarin: Mm. ethical judgment. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, that's nice. So if you could automate one annoying thing forever, what would it be? Hiba Alammarin: ⁓ Unstructured meeting no agenda. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: understand that. So what's the biggest misconception about AI, right? Hiba Alammarin: The one I have mentioned, AI will replace everyone, but the reality is AI will replace people don't ⁓ how to use, learn how to use it. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so what advice would you give someone who wants to become of himself or herself starting today? Hiba Alammarin: I will say, learn how to think with AI instead of only asking to execute tasks. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so what would you tell your younger self about the future? Hiba Alammarin: what I tell also my son about that ⁓ single day. Learning about technology. Technology will shape every ⁓ Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. Okay, so what's one book or resource that you shape your thinking about AI or innovation? Hiba Alammarin: There's many books and researchers, but the recent one was a research paper about artificial intelligence and management. was a automation and augmentation paradox, which I have mentioned in our dialogue today, coming from University of Geneva and Economics School, I think, It was talking about... Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay, can you? Hiba Alammarin: balancing approaches how to implement AI. It's not about you choosing automation or choosing full or choosing augmentation or something else. It's about finding the balance ⁓ based the task. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, all right. So if you had to bet on one AI trend that will be massive in three years, what is it? Hiba Alammarin: AI agents. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, In one sentence, what does 10x mean to you personally? Hiba Alammarin: It means that as I said also, it's like we're combining the human ⁓ with the AI. Yes, yes, so we can work smarter, not harder. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, all right. ⁓ All right. All right. Thank you very much. So if for example, some of our viewers or listeners would like to coordinate with you or collaborate with you with some researches, ⁓ just communicate with you with some AI transformation or some consultancy in the future, so how are they going to reach you? Hiba Alammarin: You can reach me by my LinkedIn, hibaalamarin, by my email, my private email, hiba, h-i-b-a dot a-r-a-m-a-rin, a-m-m-a-r-i-n, ⁓ gmail.com. You can write it, Subin. When we are coming, you can write it. ⁓ Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay. ⁓ yeah. ⁓ So, okay. Thank you. ⁓ Hiba Alammarin: My profile is one of the most popular profiles where I can get invitations. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes. Okay. Thank you very much for your time, Hiba, and I really appreciate all the insights and the researches that you have given us. And then for all the insider information in Saudi Arabia, which will be very, very useful to our listeners and viewers who are eyeing, for example, investing in Saudi Arabia or wanted to just explore Arabia or the Middle East, it's very, very useful. Thank you very much for your time again. Hiba Alammarin: Thank you.