Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 276: An Outdoor Recreation Pissing Match

Transcript

Ep. 276: An Outdoor Recreation Pissing Match · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is me eat podcast coming at you shirtless, severely
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: bug bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast. You
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: can't predict anything presented by first Light, Go farther, stay longer. Okay,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: quick round introductions. I'm gonna go the opposite way you
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: do that, you deal Poker Spencer, New Heart brand. We'll
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: talk about this brand new like I thought you're too
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: old for tattoo, brand new tattoo. Uh, Sam Longern with
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: his with his his? Uh, I don't know what. I
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: don't know if I don't I don't know if I
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: believe that's dry age? Is dry age? Dear meat sitting here?
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: We'll talk about that. I don't know what to call
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: it either. Uh. Crunch Niner's here, of course, and she
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: has a desiccated partial fox skeleton that she's running around
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: with trying to figure out how to make an art
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: project out of it. Phil the Engineer, Brody and special guest.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Rachel Schmidt so currently Director of Innovative Alliances for back
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: Country Hunters Anglers like a staffer. Yeah, full time, no volunteer, garbage, no,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: no volunteer anymore paid member. Um Rachel, you asked about
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: these little wooden boxes in front of you. They're beautiful. Okay,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: we finally got it. We're not really into it, we're not.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: We finally got our like interest meter. So everybody that's
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: everybody in the studio has their own wooden box and
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: and they're beautiful, like very artisan. It's like an artisan
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: interest meter. Everybody has a wooden box as on off
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: switch and a dial. And if they're we're not going
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: to do this officially yet, but if they find something interesting,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: like watch, let me tell this story. Okay, now, everybody
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: turn yours all the way down and I'm gonna tell
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: a story. I want to see how it works. We're
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: just me and my son, my ten year old. We're
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: sneaking up on a turkey the other day. Nothing yet,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: and well it's just so okay. There's one red dot
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: just indicating it was on, and I just strike a
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: second red dot. We noticed a I notice, I'm I'm
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: walking point. I noticed a snapper turtle under someone just
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: lost interest because I loved because I was up front,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: so that that lost interest. And I noticed under about
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: six inches of water, a snapping turtle laying there. I'm
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: getting interested now, so I say to my son James
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: and like, hey, watch, I'll show you how to sneak
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: up and grab one of these things. And I talked
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: about how you could tell by the shape of the
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: shell where his tail is. And I went up the bank,
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: kind of snuck down around, reached down under there, and
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: latched down to his tail and hauled him out. And
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: up comes not just one turtle, see it's already mated.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Not just one turtle comes up, but two turtles come up,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: and their cloacas are like engorged making love. They were
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: making love. And you've got in the way of that. Yeah,
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: and the one So I lifted out the jacket of
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: both out of the water. The under one drops free
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: swims off um. And my boy, who doesn't like to
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: have an opportunity passing by, was adamant that we now
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: kill this turtle on butcher and cook it and and
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: just chift focus to that rather than the turkey or
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: after the turkeys in his mind, like that doesn't exist anymore.
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: And I was like, you're gonna have a mighty big job,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: a hetty, if you're gonna saw that turtle's head off
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: with a pocket knife, because that's the only way to
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: do it, you know. And then I eventually talked to
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: him and letting the turtle go and so hopefully they
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: joined back up again. Now watch no, turn it back
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: up the full blast green lights there? What what? What? Like?
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: Nothing happened to be uninteresting or just it's fading. Now
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: watch watch what happens When I say, let's talk about tattoo,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: injury and sex down Spencer's tattoo is just no, uh
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: what was that, Rachel say? I mean, you're halfway through
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: the story. You hit injury or sex. You're always you're
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: going to get the green. Yeah, it's gonna like that's
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: the cook the hook is there. So how can you
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: work those themes into that? Tell about what your tattoop? Is?
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: This your first tattoo? My first tattoos? Your wife have tattoo?
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: She has like six? Oh bro, do you don't have
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: your tattoos? Did your wife have a tattoo? No? I
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: miss that. I mean my wife were the only people
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: no tattoos. Now, I missed the window, you know, I
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: like went through that early nineties period and thought about
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: it and then just never did it. Well, I went
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: down to get one and I didn't get it. Then
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: I just got never made it there, My brother. My
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: brother Danny got the world's worst steel head. I mean,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: it looked amazing thirty years ago, whatever the hell it
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: was when he was like, I don't know, he's twenty one,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: twenty two years old. It looks amazing. He got a
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: steel head on his arm. And I was like, seventy
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: five bucks, right, And I was just burning up with jealousy.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, wanting to get a fly. I'm gonna
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: get a steel head. Flocks. We used to catch a
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: lot of steel head in Michigan. So I was gonna
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: go down and I go down there and I had
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: seventy dollars and the guys like seventy five, and I'm like,
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I only got seventy. And that's why I don't have
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: a tattoo. Today. You could have found tattollars. With a
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: change in your just you would be regretting that tattoo
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: so much. Now. I have many tattoos, because how many
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: tattoos you have on you, you're not gonna drop your
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: short sorry tattoo lower lower back, well my reaching up
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: the ribs. Yeah. My first one is a is a
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: dry fly. It's the first dry fly my grandfather ever
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: taught me how to tie. It's a royal wolf. And
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: so I got that tattoo in the late nineties before
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: they were called tramp stamps when you get one back,
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: so it wasn't a thing. So I got it right there,
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: and then they became known as tramp stamps. But by
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: that time I was just collecting flies and they're just
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: wrapping up my back. I've got three saltwater flies coming next. Zomi,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: do you have right now? Uh? Not? Nine? Whoa Spencer?
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: You got some work to do. So Spencer got to
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: tell us again what it is. This it's about ten
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: inches long, probably about two and a half inches wide,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: it's biggest. It is a black hill spruce. She's the
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: state tree of South Dakota only found. It's native to
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: the Black Hills of South Dakota and Wyoming. Looks like
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: track marks running up his arm at a passing at
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: a passing glance, you think he was a junkie. Yeah,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: it's no like that tattoo. Thank you. See I want
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: to get Uh. I saw a guy that had a tattoo.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: It was the North American continent, okay, and he had
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: a little turkey foot all the places where he killed
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: his his royal slam. I like that, So what's thinking
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: about doing that? What's the appropriate age for tattoo? You
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: said I'm too old. I was just teasing. I don't think.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: I think it does seem like most tattoos occur between
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: the ages of eighteen and twenty two. Though, yeah, there's
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: the age when people are susceptible to tattoo artists. I
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: feel like that's shifted, though, very much shifted. That was
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: that was the time that I thought a lot about it,
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: but then it's just continued to fade it. I tried
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: to get mine in nineteen my fly, it's not too late.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: So my wife has stem Stephen Fever come on, cultivate
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: the rock star image a little more. Um. We did
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: get the turkey that we the snap turtle turkey, so uh,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: it wasn't his first turkey, because he got another turkey
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: this year in Wisconsin. But we snuck in on a
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: stratter and got pretty like a hundred yards from him
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: and started calling at him, and he finally turned and
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: was kind of coming and also to Jake popped up
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: like twenty yards away. It just also in hears his
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: head and I told James, shoo, shoot shoot, and he
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: shot it, and uh he was this is like, this
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: is embarrassing to admit, but he was like he didn't
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: say it, but you can tell he was like bummed.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: It was a jake. But he already at that precious
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: innocent age, it's already registered. I was like, man, I
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: didn't know about that kind of stuff to I was
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: thirty years old. We just thought turkeys like turkeys of turkeys, man,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: who cares already already like, I want to see its spurs.
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: There's no spurs. I couldn't believe it, literally, none, no spurs. No.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: I just had a little works, you know, little nubbins. Um. Yeah,
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: so that happened, which is my fault because when he
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: got his first turkey, it was a long beard with spurs.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: And so we're all celebrate, you know what I mean,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: you can't. You can't if you celebrate the highs and
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: people become aware of the lows. So that was a problem. Um.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: And then we caught um and think quite that's not
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: quite fair. Almost caught a soft shell turtle that same
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: day too. I found in the Queen Mother of All
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: turtle trap and I want to go to the Queen
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Mother of All turtle trapping spots. Well. Um, for a
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: while in high school, I would sell him for a
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: dollar a pound turtle soup meat. But you had to
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: take the carapace off. Had got him and take the
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: carapace off? What did you do with the shells? Various stuff?
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Give him away? Paint him. I used to paint him
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: the inside. I'd paint like the color of the binding
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: on a National geographic magazine, like yellow and lacquer or
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: the top of their sweet. So when's the last time
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: you kill the snapper and ade him? Oh? A couple
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: of years ago I got one bowl fishing in Kentucky.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: Moving on. Okay, Now, Brody explained, what how in your truck? Uh?
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: Is that turkey camp at Janice's secret turkey spot and
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: which I know about? Yeah, you know the general zone. Um,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: and uh, everything's going great for like three days, we're
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: killing turkeys, and it rains the last night we're there,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: and I had I was pulling my camper. So I
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: decided after the morning hunt to go check the road
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: out to see if I could even get the camper
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: out of there, and got like fifty yards from camp,
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: put the truck in a ditch because it's all gumbo.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, bad bad, Um, you better explained gumbo. Most
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of people don't know what gumbo is. I
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: grew up Michigan versus Sandy. Yeah, this is this really greasy,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: glooey mud that's impossible to drive in kind of clay
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: based expandable. And I actually even put chains on the
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: back of my truck and that made no difference because
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: it just the changes like the gumbo. So it was
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: just from snowmelt or rain or what. It's just overnight rain.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Wasn't even that doesn't take a whole lot, you know,
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: it's just like a steady rain. Yeah. Hunting those gumbo areas,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: you can go into a spot and then I mean
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: it happens quite frequently. Um, if you drive in you know,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: ten twenty miles whatever on gumbo roads and it rains
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: a lot of times, you gotta wait a day, right,
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: and we're supposed to go to work or whatever, and
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: you just can't. Manyeh, we're prepared to do that even
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: before the especially go on private if you're on um
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: private land, like we're hunting turkeys on a little chunk
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: of private land the other day. And uh, it was
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: very much like man you know, because then you pissed
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: people off, right, You don't want to be teared up
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: there Like the quickest way to get uninvited to branches
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: to go behind through their gumbo things and cut ruts
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: in it. Yeah, but either way, I won't mention the
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: manufacturer's name. Um, but I recently got a new truck,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: and that truck has a white dogging on our trucks. Man, listen,
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: that skid plate that they put on those things, that
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: cloth material pressed cloth like that doesn't even qualify as
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: a skid plate. And when I slid into the ditch,
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: it just tore off. Yeah it's you know, it's over
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: the transmission. Um. Yeah, that was disappointing. So it tore
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: that off and poked a hole in the transmission fluid pan,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: which I didn't know, so I got like that steel, No,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: it's plastic. There's this whole new training fluid in Yeah. Yeah,
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: well here's what they tell you. They tell you that
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: it's about fuel efficiency and lightweight exactly. I will it's
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: the most popular truck in North America. I think it's
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: the best selling vehicle in the world. Yeah. I loved
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: it up until this point. Now I love it again
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: because it's fixed. But I love It's like having an
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: apartment building. Yeah, if you got dogs and gear, Yeah
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: it's great. Uh. Anyway, I got stranded for a couple
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: days while the thing was getting fixed, which interestingly, it's
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: kind of like the Bermuda Triangle of Turkey Spot exactly
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: because Yanni had Yannie got stranded Yanni's brother in law.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: But j honest was kind of the fact I was
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: stranded with him because his brother in law's truck broke
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: down the same spot last year. Do you feel like
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: your kids into turkey hunting? No, you were saying you
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: got you liked it? Oh yeah, he said he's he
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: wants to do that more than kill a deer because
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: he got to see the whole show. You know, three
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: gobblers messing around and one came down, and yeah it
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: was cool. He liked it, yeah big time. Did you
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: like doing that gripping grin? Oh yeah, yeah, he liked that. Uh, Brodie,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: what were you saying, like, Cody Luhan? Yeah, oh sent
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: us this thing. Um, so this is the same river.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: I'm not being very clear. We have a friend Cody Luhan.
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: I think he's on the show, though he was at
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: the live podcast in Denver, the very first one he
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: has been on the show. He um big New Mexico,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: Colorado guy. He found a he found a buffalo skull
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: on the y'all say Yampa, right, I say yampa. Johanna
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: says yampa, which I think is correct. It's ah. I
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: believe it's the last. It's one of the last major
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: rivers in Colorado that's considered undamned flowing dumps into the
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: Green or yeah, no, yeah, dumps into the Green River.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: You know, our own friendly Yellowstone River here is the
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: longest and man, they used to want to damn that
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: thinks so damn bad. Now it's now it's like pride thing.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: They'll never do it. Oh yeah, people fighting him off
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: tooth and nails to try to keep him from damn it. No,
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: everybody runs around top Abo, how cool it is. It
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: is not damned. They were gonna put a bunch of
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: damns and a bunch of I think coal fired power
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: plants along it enough and which would draw enough water
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: to d water the Yellowstone. That sounds a good at
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: one point. Can you imagine including damning the Paradise Valley too,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: That was a proposal. You imagine having a big right there.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you what well, I had a controversial idea
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: about that, but I'm not gonna get into it. So
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: the Yampa, the Yampa um our friend Cody found a
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: school there and he sent us an article about this
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: kind of interesting the guy found quite a while ago,
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: but he just donated to museum. A guy found a
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Bison Antiquois school along the Yampa and uh radio carbon dating.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: They think it's about forty years old. He just donated
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: to the Museum of Northwest Colorado. But the reason I
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: bring this thing up is these I don't know what
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: the current story is on these things, but the old
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: understanding of it was that you had at the end
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: of the you know, during an interglacial period when glaciers
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: receded um step ice and came down and colonized the
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: lower forty eight like came down through the ice sheets
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: when they were receded from a melt, and then here
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: they were, and they kind of like poured forward on
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: this this landscape. That was that they didn't have any
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: real competitors, this big grassland grazer, and they were living
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: in areas that had recently been glaciated. Tons of Territory Forum.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Great conditions, and they sprouted horns six ft tip tip,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: so more like like what you think of a water
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: buffalo horns like going out straight rather than I'm almost
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: more like buffles kind of got a muskoxy vibe to it,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: you know, longhorn after you steam or after do they
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: steam it? Yeah? You know when you see those crazy ones,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: they like steam them and change of shape on him.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: It's real common. I did not know that. Yeah, I've
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: never heard that anyways, big, big gass long outside of
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: his heads, horns six ft tip the tip, this one
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: that donated the museum. It's just the cores, like the
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: sheaths are gone when you see one of those suckers,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: but the sheets on it. Yeah, can you imagine one
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: and a half times the size of the current one
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: six ft tip tip big, that's obviously that. That's not
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: the kind you found that inspired you to write the book. No,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: mine was just a Joe blow one. Now there's this
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: thing called horn coore morphology, which I was I became
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: a discipline of for a while, and it's like you
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: take all these relative measurements on on buffalo skulls and
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: you can kind of try to age it at least
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: like they used think they could do that with people
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: to not agent, but they used to think that they could,
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: like you know, like take measurements on your skulls and
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: who's smarter and not smarter? What it called, Yeah, like
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: you could tell like intelligent races by like eugenics. Yeah,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: it was that based in like measuring people's skulls. And
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's teetering on that, like craniums are like, wow,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: it looks like my skull's the smart kind um phrenology. Phrenology.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: So I initially thought the one I found, the first
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: one I found, I found a couple of cents. Then
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: partially like not as cool as the first one. But
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: the first one I found an Initially I thought it
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: was an oldie, But then I had a radio carbon
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: dated and I had a genetic sample taken from it,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: and it's just a regular one. And they think, what
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: the reason I like it is? They think that there's
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: a sixty six percent probability that it died within about
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: ten years of seventeen seventy. Oh that's cool, just when
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: things were getting going here, m just when things are
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: starting to heat up around here. Uh, crank uh found
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: this thing that's in here and she put in about
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: she she mentions that it's not Gonnaly mean anything. I
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: don't know much about professional sports, but I like this guy.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: A big thing in the news now, the Baltimore Ravens. Like,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: honest to god, if you sat me down and told
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: me to list teams, I don't think I would have
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: come up with that one. I've been like cowboys hackers,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: like the ones that were cool and when I was
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: a youngster. But after the other week's podcast about Ravens,
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: you know, can Yeah, when people say the name an
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: NFL guy, I'm like Fridge Perry, like, I just don't
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: no idea. Oh man, uh so this dude, I like
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: this guy. Creani trying to get him on the show.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Can you work on that real hard? If you know,
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: I know we have NFL listeners. Ben would trying to
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: get hold of Ben Cleveland Baltimore Ravens guard just got drafted.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: He's making the news all over the place because he
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: eats a lot of squirrels. Then you have to clarify
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: that his squirrel diet is being overblown. He's more of
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: an opportunistic squirrel ead. He just says, he goes into
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: his freezer and he eats what's in his freezer, and
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: sometimes they're squirreling his freezer. But everybody's acting like the
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: advice for celebrities, I think that like, if you want
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: to make the news and you can't think of whatever
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: and you just haven't been in the news cycle, will
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: probably talking about eating squirrels because it doesn't piss anybody off.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Like if you said, like I eat panda bears, you're
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: gonna get the wrong attention. Right, if you eat squirrels, like,
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: no one's gonna get mad. Everybody's gonna think it's kind
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: of quirky. You'll get some good ink. That's my tip,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: My tip to celebrities. Did you see his quote about
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: the squirrel taste. I know that he was saying that
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: he finds them in certain areas to have a nut
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: of your flavors, and another South Georgia, he said they're
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: quite a bit nut of here, and then when you
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: get up north, they just taste like squirrel. Now, dude,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: I want to have him on the show so bad.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about football. And then I mean,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: I appreciate that he's good at what he does right, right.
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: I appreciate he's good at what he does. And then
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: he's clarifying quote like I think made it better because
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: he's like, I don't eat squirrels all the time. It's
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: just when there ain't no dear meat left him. What
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: happened somehow or another one brought it up is he
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: was telling a story. I don't know if he grew
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: up in a hard scrabble family, but he's telling a
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: story about when he's a kid, he didn't have anything.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: There was nothing in his home that he wanted to eat,
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: but they had biscuits and he shot two squirrels out
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: of It's talk about making his own food when he
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: was a kid, and he shot two squirrels out the
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: window with the twenty two and made squirrel and biscuits
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: for himself. He was on a sick day that he's
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: home from school. I love this guy. I don't know,
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: maybe maybe the worst guy in the world. We'll find out.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: I think he's a good guy. It sounds like it. Yeah, um,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: we're having squirrel for dinner night. I thought out two
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: packs of squirrel and one pack of rabbits. Um, My
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: kids just like it, like they like you. To brown
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: it in a pan and then put it in an
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: I had to eat out last night for a work thing,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: but they had uh raccoon last night. I love it. Man.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: They don't know what they just don't. They don't know
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: enough to care. Um, we're talking about sis. I was
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: explaining that, but I couldn't remember. My brother used to
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: have my brother's old girl friend. We called her to
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: the Tower of power. Uh she do you care to elaborate?
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: I would like some clarification. He's like not a small person.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: She towered over him. Are you kidding me? Like he
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: had like an eight foot tall girlfriend. Um, the Tower
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: of Power just would beat your ass if you got
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: in a fight with her. I don't wanna tell her name,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: as you can't remember name. They weren't together that long.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: I liked her. Remember, I remember one time we went
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: I remember this. We took her duck hunting, and remember
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: we were eating duck duck hunting and I finished my
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: duck leg and through it and said, like ashes, the
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: ashes dust to dust or something like that, and through
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: the bone. I remember hung up in a barbeder fence.
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: Interesting memories just stuck in my head. Um, where those
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: dials that guys turned out, turn those things up, turn
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: those things up. I was saying how she had a um.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: I remember while they were boyfriend girlfriends, she had this
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: sister removed they had teeth in it. Okay, you guys
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: talked about this the other day. I was eating breakfast.
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: It's the first time in a long time. I just
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: stopped chewing and I was done. Yeah, it's on appetizing.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: I don't have a like, not a squeamish person. No
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: one wants this tooth thie sis but in them. But
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: we have one of our, one of ours that we
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: had a doctor right and the doctors like I know,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: you guys got all kinds of doctors that are always
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: righting in, but you don't have many obstetrician guy in
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: the Collegist he writes, and he's act. I think he's
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: the first obstetrician guy in ecologist to write it. And
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: he wanted to clarify a few things about the Tower
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: of Powers Cist. It's a dermoid cyst. It's an ovarian
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: germ cell tumor, very common. Most women who have one
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: probably will never know it. And you are probably close
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: to someone with and ovarian cyst. Whether they know it
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: or not. And I'm only close to you too, Rachel
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: and Krim. So one of you has one of these
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: little buggers in you right now? Is that what we
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: call them? All of them have hair and a copious
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: sebacious fluid that looks exactly like Papa John's garlic butter.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: That's too much detail right there. That's how he that's
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: how he describes it. A great way to set up
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: my my little tasty treats we brought in here to eat. Yeah,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: we should have switched, we should we should have switched
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: around there. That's a knock against Cran's producing a bill
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: to have to have not put Sam up top before.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: This looks like I don't taste no, not taste like
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: looks like Papa John's garlic butter. Occasionally they have teeth,
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: sometimes a small jawbone, sometimes styroid tissue, even cartilage or
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: tissue related to the eye. Hmm, that's what I haven't
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: heard carrying a little person around. You guys might want
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: to go down and get some kind of exam to
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: find off you might have one of these buggers. Have
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: you heard, like looked at video? Is that are they called?
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: Is it sebacious? Cists. Oh you want to feel one
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: of those right now? Well, or I haven't removed every
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: few years. I had him one time come in like horns.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: They grew in exactly perfect for horse. What am I thinking?
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking of like these like um like they're like pyloric,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know anyway, but it's like the infection goes no, no, no,
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: it's actually young truckers usually get them. I watched this
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: whole special. It's like a doctor pimple Popper special or
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: something like that, right, and it's like they get like
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: an ingrown hair like usually on their butt because they're
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: strong on their butt all the time, and then it
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: gets infected. But the infection goes in and it can
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: actually like these like infected tentacles like go down the legs.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: So when they finally get them, it's like this little
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: like ZiT. But then they start popping it and it's
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: just fountains and they're like squeezing the puss up from
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: the leg and like it's just fountains of this substanti.
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: What are you're saying fountains? I keep thinking about how
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: that community is so drawn to fountain pop too. Founting
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: soda found thirty fountain sodas or not. That might still
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: that might be a contributing factor. Uh. Another your clarification
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: came in. I was saying it a long time ago.
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: I wanted to do and never did it. When I
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: was magazine writer. I wanted to do a piece for Outside.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: When I used to write, there a lot about camping
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: and highway medians, Like you know in some areas where
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: there's you have too high the highways right like two
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: lane highways, interstate highways, and they have the obviously the
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: median strip, but sometimes the medium strips because of whatever
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: is going on with the road construction. There's hundreds of
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: yards of no man's land. Can you imagine deer and
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: whatnot crossing wind up in that meeting and probably find yeah,
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: or like whatever, there's probably and there's no one would
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: go in there, and I wanted to explore those with
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: this guy pointed out. Someone wrote in that there is
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: a guy that has a YouTube thing called Camping with Steve,
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: which makes me jealous as hell because I didn't come
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: camping with Steve and I haven't watched yet, but on
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Camping with Steve, he does the whole thing about camping
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: and highway medians. He does. He's an expert in stealth
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: camp I love that. I love that for is I've
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: employed that a lot in my life camping with Steve.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: No stealth camping just like, well, I gotta pull over
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: and sleep somewhere, and I do not want to pay
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: for a hosted campground, So I was just gonna slide
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: into the most interesting stealth spot you've The first time
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: I visited Missoula, Montana, I tried to go hide out
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: in this area under construction under a bridge, and it
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: wasn't very stealthy because the cop came in found me.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: I ended up living there for eight years and it's
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: a whole beautiful part of that didn't go very well.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know. That's just what came to mind. When
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: you're younger, um, and you guys are quite bit younger
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: than I am, but you have a very different attitude
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: about like getting kicked out of places. I mean, you
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: just want to sleep, and the idea that in the
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: middle of the the night of cops gonna bang on the
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: window and shine a light until you can't sleep there,
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: it just isn't It's like, Okay, that's cool. But now
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: I sort of like living fear of conflict like that. Yeah, absolutely,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: I would not. I would not repeat that. Yeah, I
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: just don't like now that kind of thing just makes
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: me like everything to be all like positive, sure that
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: I'm okay to like sleep somewhere or camp somewhere. Stealth
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: camping is not. I like it. I like the camping
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: with Steve exists, and that he's a stealth camper. But
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: I just got I'm too cautious now about that kind
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: of stuff. Well, we got money and smartphones and stuff
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: now that maybe back then it was just like, well
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I think I can probably get away with it, and
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: I just need to sleep. So yeah, exactly, have no
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: quick way to research where you were and to find
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: a good place to go sleep and all that business. Exactly.
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: The cops was super nice about it. He's like, yeah,
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: I know you can't sleep here, but here's some ideas
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: of where you can sleep. A couple of tips. It
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: was real, real pleasant. I'm sure he's lunched those out
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: to a lot of homeless people as well. Probably I
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: think that's what he thought. It was like he was
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: he thought I was cooking meth under that truck or something. Oh,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: speaking of police, officers. I was gonna mention this. I
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: got a text message this morning from our friend guy's Uck,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: who has been on the show a few times. If
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: you go back a ways in our library, we had
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: an episode called something like the Brown's Back and the
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: Baseball Bat, and it was it was about guy's Uk
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: who was on the show. And he's an expert turkey
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: caller and does it without He can call turkeys with
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: no calls in his mouth. But when he's a kid,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: he had a Brown's back turkey and he would call
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: it in and then you'd whoop it with a whiffleball
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: bat a little bit hit it to spook it, not bad,
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: just to let it know so that it would become
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: less inclined to be duped. Not bad, not whoop it bad.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: I should I use a poor verb choice. He would uh,
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: look it, love, tap it with a whiffleball bat and
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: then call it in again, keep tricking it. Did it work.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: He's a really good turkey caller. He this morning took
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: out a guy he uh where the land like? He's
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: a land manager at a at a property that my
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: friend zone and they use. My friend uses the property
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: to have veterans and people, Um, allow veterans another, A
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: lot of wounded veterans go hunt on his place and
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: that's kind of his main focus of the properties he owns.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: And they had a guy out there that got a
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: turkey this morning. There was shot on duty in Springfield,
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: Missouri five years ago. Um, first time he has fired
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: a gun since he was shot. It was first time hunting,
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: got himself turkey this morning. So that was Yeah, guy's
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: looks good, dude. Um. Someone wrote into a question struggle
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: with why people name game animals. We've talked about the
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: hundred times. What's your take on it? Rachel, Like, Old,
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: it's just I mean, it's about where you come from too.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: And like I think, um, a lot of folks in
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: the West because we don't necessarily like isolate ourselves to
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: like a pocket with two routine deer, Like that's a
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: foreign concept to us. It's like most of the deer
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: I've ever shot, I've never even seen before to whereas
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: in the East, like you are, you're in this pattern,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: You're in the same stand you have you know, deer
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: that are you know, super you know patterned, and so
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: it it's a way to I mean, that's just certain
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: nature is to figure out how to mark some thing
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: so you can keep track of it in your head.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: So for a while I thought it was super ridiculous,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: but now I'm like, what do I do? I care?
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: I had to around it because people got clever, Like
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: I only caught it once. People got clever with it
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: because if everybody would be like, you know that one buck, right,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: the buck by Bob's house. That doesn't make anyone upset.
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: I Saw's house. Yeah, but that's that's not a name either.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: That's not that's not a Christian name, I know, but
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: it's it's an individual that you're communicating about. So the
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: fact that someone would go, let's say it's by Bob's house,
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: so he's Bob the Buck, why does that all of
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: a sudden become like, oh, I don't know about that.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: It's fine to say the buck by Bob's house, But
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: Bob the Buck upsets people? You upset? No upset me.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: I was just kind of like, it's weird. You got
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: the like the the descriptive names to like the Big
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: nine eighty. Yeah, my dad had. My dad is a
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: huge white tail hunter for years, and he had this
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: five year period where he was just like obsessively rabbit
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: after this buck that he called the hook toe and
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: because it's track like like the front, you know, like
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: they would hook over, and so it always was like
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: this hook and he would like it was a really
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: big buck and he you know, catches track every once
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: in a while, and he was just obsessed with it.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Did he kill it? He didn't know? He didn't. Now
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: Mark Kenny explain Because Mark Kenny, he's got a lot
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: of little places he hunts, you know, he doesn't he
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: doesn't have like some he's big white tail hunter, you know,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: wired hunt Mark Kenyon, and he's got all these little spots,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: you know, like twenty acres whatever. And he's always kind
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: of watching what bucks are coming and going. And he
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: might in any given time be sort of aware of
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: eight or ten deer and he watches them. Over the
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: course of many years. It's like what the hell is
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: he supposed to do? And and I've also found that
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: like in especially in Mark's situation, it's it's very useful
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: for creating a narrative to allowing people to follow along
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: with it to give an idea of deer he's recently killing.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: He was Tran Frank Drupi one he tried killing was
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: Holy Field. So that those are like the names. What
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: was the name of that crazy bock you shot in
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: Kansas last year? UM, trying to think. I'm disappointed. I
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: don't remember what they had named him at Buck's gotta
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: have a name. He had a name. I don't remember,
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: but that that was an example to where they had.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: You know, pretty much any deer that we would lay
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: eyes on had a name. We have a very interesting
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: white tailed lives around our yard and he's still just
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: like the one big buck. Oh that one we were
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: looking at last maybe last fall's look. But he's all velvet.
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: But I have a hard time. I'm sure there's people
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: that are good at it. I have a hard time, like,
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: tell him what's going to happen. But he's got like
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: celery stocks of velvet coming out top of the head.
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: You know, I mean not the individuals man, I'm talking about.
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: When you buy all the celery still hooked together, that's
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: an exaggeration, and then cut one of those in half
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: and then called those in half. That's what looks like
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: big velvet knobs coming out column celery the celery buck.
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: But here's a question, where does that all dovetail with
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: like anthropomorphizing animals, and then I've heard many people say
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: like I'm going to go and get my dear this year,
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: or that's my bear, you know, like over the course
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: of a couple of years, you think you see the
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: same animal. You know, you're unsuccessful at, you know, killing
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: the thing, and and it's like that's mine, and it's
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: like that animal knows you. Of course, not like you're not.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: It is legally, it is legally yours. It's legally your problem. Sure,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: well yeah, okay, so they're just call on your show. Well,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: I think more than so. I think more than anthropomorphizing
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: in this situation, like the naming of a deer, it's
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: more of I think maybe the where our brains work
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: is we just like something that's routined in our life,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: we like to label it, like you want, you want
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: to classify, you want to label it. You want to
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: because it's something that's familiar. And I think that's maybe
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: the wear lives are. I mean, just our brains kind
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: of worked, Whereas I don't know if you're necessarily like
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: like giving that animal some human characters. Yeah, you're not
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: putting a bow tie on it, and no imagining it's
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: relationship with its skunk best friend and they go off
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: and have adventure. So yeah, I just I think it's
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: maybe just wear where brains work or want to work.
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: I don't know. The guy from Oklahoma wrote in UM
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: his hunting body is a farmer and you're talking about
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: how they, you know, winter cattle on their place, and
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: he says that they feed corn and then a lot
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: of geese come out into the pastures where these cattle
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: are at and pick the undigested bits of corn out
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: of the nerve. And he's wondering what everybody thinks about
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: that eating those But man, if you eat a duck anywhere,
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: you're eating yeah. Yeah, I mean, if you eat a
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: turkey anywhere in the American West, if you eat a colie,
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: you're eating cowshit. Like I mean, come on, like they're
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: eating You've seen him out. Yeah, they looked themselves, and
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: they're coated in nerves and they it's all over in
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: the grass. They're eating I mean everything, dear, I'm sure
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: are picking up ship when they're eating. I mean, let's
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: be clear, if you're eating the mints that are on
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: the lake hostess table as you're leading restaurant some matter. Yeah,
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: it doesn't bother me. Now. We one time had um,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: we one time had a duck hunting permission in a
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: pretty famous waterfowl area and there's we got a duck
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: hunting permission where there was a municipal sewage facility, and uh,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: it was so bad. I mean, we got a lot
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: of ducks there. It was so bad that there were
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: prophylactics now and then. So we were hunting in the
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: treated stuff or the untreated stuff. You know. I was
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: never clear, sounds kind of untreated down the line. We
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: were down the line. We were down the line a bit,
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: and it had like a lot of aquatic vegetation. I
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: was like some kind of like later settling pond. I
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: have to go back, and we visit. We didn't pay
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: too much attention at the time. I later realized it
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: seemed like a good way to get up Titus the
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: topic of plastic in the environment. Man. We're like, man,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: we got this place all to ourselves. And when the
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: guy gave permission, he uh didn't even hammer hall about it.
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: I was, I can't leave. No one has the spot. Yeah,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: we hunted for several years. Um, so I don't know
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: that doesn't bother me, all right, Sam. Now, after we
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: talked about those little toothy siss and eating nerve, Sam
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: longer in here texted me one day, I was asking
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: about Okay, just to clarify, I feel like you said,
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: have you ever tried to dry? How did you put
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: it to me? I said, I think, I said, have
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: you ever tried to do like a purshuto ham with
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: a deer? Yeah? And I said that it won't work? Yeah, Well,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: and you're basing you're basing that off, I think off
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: of trying it with hogs in Texas and and saying
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: that there wasn't enough enough fat on them to to
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: make like maintain the moisture in there. Because when I
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: did it successfully with a friend of mine who's like
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: a sharkootrie expert at a restaurant, he um was dismissive
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: of all this stuff. And then we made it with
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: pig legs with the skin on scraped skin on pig legs,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: which worked very well, really, you know, but there's a
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: lot of protection, right fat, right right, and and there
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: are a lot of methods for kind of emulating that
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: with with deer. And I mean, let me apologize upfront
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: that I do not did not get into the science
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: of this as far as I could. I mean, i've
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: I've I've read a lot of this is my This
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: is my is my first attempt at it. But basically,
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: both my freezers were full because I killed a moose
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: last year as well as a baron, an elk and
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: a deer and a turkey and a bunch of other
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: ship and uh, I had one deer ham left, and
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: both my freezers were like packed to the to the brim.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: And I always kind of wanted to do like a
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: big hole muscle cure. Read a lot of stuff online,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: mostly just kind of like experimental blogs and eight something
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: turning my dialoge. You're talking about the process. So the process,
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: what I did was I just salted the Jesus out
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: of it for three weeks, but just rubbed it all
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: over the exterior of it. Yeah, and then and so
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: I just like had it out and there's all kinds
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: of water coming off, all kinds of water lost, pounds
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: of water, room town um colder than room timp. It
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: was like out in the out in the garage at
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: my last place in my in cool weather. Yeah, I
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: killed my my buck like mid November. So you did
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: it back then, Yeah, you did it right, Like he
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: never frows the thing or anything, never froze it. Probably
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: probably deer pulled the skin off and started putting all
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: kinds of salt on. Yeah. Yeah, shot shot the deer,
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: gutted it, dragged it out, which I don't usually do,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: but we had a skiff of snow, and I was
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: a mile and a half from the truck, and I
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: was like, you know, it seems easier. Hung it for
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: a week, butchered it and then just like left that
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: ham hung it for a little while longer than then
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: salted it real heavily for for quite a while, took
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: off pounds and pounds and pounds of of of water
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: it um on a tray, and so I would like
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: pour off the water occasionally and flip it, put more
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: salt on, rub off the old salt, put more salt on,
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: uh than After three or or weeks, took it out
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: and washed all the salt off. Hunging out in the
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: sun for a day because after I washed it, I
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: don't wanted to didn't you wanted to rid it of
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: that moisture um. Then I put on more salt a
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: little bit of curing salt, uh, dried garlic, um, dried
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: rosemary and pepper, and then kind of let that set
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: up and kind of make a little bit of a crust.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: And then I mean melted down a whole bunch of
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: large that you gave me and allowed that to kind
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: of cool, and then just kind of painted it over.
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: Caked it, just caked it almost probably probably a quarter
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: inch thick in large, but you know, thicker in some places.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: But I mean I put on like five or six
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: pounds of of large and then it was the whole Yeah,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: I went started. So after I coated in a large,
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: then I wrapped it in just a just a cheap
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: game bag, so cheesecloth, and then kind of bound that
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: up with para cord and hung it in that basement.
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: I was living in um in a dark closet, so
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: ambient temperature of the house, so you know, fifties sixties,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: no sunlight, um and just ambient moisture for Montana, so
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: you know, generally pretty arid. And then when I moved
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: to my new place, it was I put it in
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: the in my I got it like a it's like
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: a house on top of a big, big gas garage
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: and hung it in the in the basement out of
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: the sun. Same thing, you know, forties, fifties, sixties, a
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: lot of air movement, not much sunlight. As soon as
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: it starts to get hot, out you want to cut
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: that thing down because once you're getting into like seventy
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: eight degrees, you're you're gonna run into different types of
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: mold and you're going to run into um, just run
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: into more trouble. It's gonna dry out, it's gonna this
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: and that the other thing. And so to three weeks ago,
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: whatever it was, it was like it was getting real hot,
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: and I'm like, I just started getting nervous about it
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: and decided to chop it down, cut it up, and
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: and see how it was um. And honestly, I was
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: surprised by how moist it was. Silky. Yeah, I ended
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: up smoking a lot, smoking a lot of it after
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: I after I parted it out, because it was so
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: moist and it was it was still very much raw.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: It did not the cure did not really penetrate, and
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: and and and next time, and and and I have
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: reached or why do you think the cure didn't penetrate? Yeah,
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: it's salty I mean it feels like that salt. Yeah,
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: but but like but you know, what you're tasting here
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: is smoked as well, like really low light smoke. But
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: it just it felt very raw. You know. What I
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: wanted to do here is like trail meat, you know,
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: something you can kind of throw in your backpack. Um.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I was like, again, I was shocked by
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: how much moisture was maintained. And I feel like it's
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: got kind of a fattiness to it from having that
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: large coating. Um. Yeah, so that's the best thing I've had.
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: Did you have any mold on it? Yeah? Yeah, the
• 45:02
  Speaker 1: outside definitely had some white mold. Um there, Uh, there
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: were some little black spots that were appearing, and I
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: think that might have been like kind of concurrent with
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: that hot weather. Um the outside you know that that
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: that large kind of seeped through the cheese cloth and
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: it was starting it was starting to look pretty fucking weird,
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: to be honest with you. Um, I mean it's very
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: very yellow and kind of congealing at the bottom. But
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: but I would always get you know, like as you
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: moved out and left that hanging in the garage, someone
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: would throw it away. And now eat it for an
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: investigation probably, But man, I mean I got ten pounds
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: of sliced you know, or well like ready to be
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: sandwich meat, um and so and and like that with
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: some good cheese on some sour dough and then toasted up.
• 45:53
  Speaker 1: It's like it's it's really good. And you could kind
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: of when you take it, you and almost rolled into
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: a ball. Yeah, you know, you could take a piece
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: and kind of trimmed if you trim the edge away,
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: that's exactly that's when to make the meat and make
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: like a little sphere out of it, tenderized the crap
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: out of it, and man like exceeded by wildest expectations. Yeah, man,
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: that's good. I'm gonna try top Sam. Are you checked
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: out on the the lobster fight? I am okay, explain
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: this lobster fight thing. A lot of stuff in the
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: news like UN peacekeepers coming to Canada to settle a
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: lobster fight. A tribe in Canada, Psycanuka teat on the
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: Bay of St. Mary, which is on the Bay of Fundy.
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: And you know that's a giant cutout of Nova Scotia.
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: That's the biggest tide swing in the world, right one
• 46:52
  Speaker 1: of them. I think Bay of Fun might be the
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: biggest tide swinging. I heard it was somewhere in England
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: because where I grew up as one of the biggest
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: big tide swing I was familiar with the name a
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: lot of the towns because the show Trailer Park Boys
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: is set in that area. UM, I wouldn't expect everyone
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: to know that. One, it's a phenomenal television program. It
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: is correct three point five ft Holy crap. So last year,
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: this this first nation tribe in Canada decided that they
• 47:27
  Speaker 1: were going to have their own lobster season. The Canadian
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: Fisheries Ministry has you know, a set season and um
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: like federal federal, federally set season. So kind of like
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: their version of our like you know, Noah or National
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Marine Fishery Service. UM. So this this tribe you know,
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: is trying to uh, you know, really kind of build
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: more of a kind of a career path for their people,
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: create more jobs in lobster fishing. And they've leave that
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: the that the lobster populations can't sustain a more intensive
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: fishery than the you know, the Canadian government believes. Um.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: Last year they went ahead and did this fishery. They
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: just they went for it, um, and and caught a
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: whole bunch of lobsters. But there's a lot of people
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: in that area who were very upset about this. There's
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: people pulling their going up and pulling their pots, stealing
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: their pots two different presumably other commercial operators who are
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: operating under the federal law exactly. So you can hear
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: they are like, you're you're catching lobsters that I can't catch. Exactly, yeah, exactly,
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: so you know I could you know, you can see
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: where that they might perceive unfairness. But it got really
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: out of hand. The um the like mobs attacked these
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: lobster storage facilities in West Pubnico um, and you know,
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: stole lobsters and then they eventually burned of those places
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: to to the ground. Um. The cops came, people were arrested. UM.
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: But and like what I read, you know is that
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: the cops were just glad nobody died. But really nasty stuff.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: The chief of the or leader chairman. Let's see what
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: it was, chief, Yeah, um was it was assaulted. UM.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: One of the tribal members vans was set on fire. UM.
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: Really nasty ship, really nasty UM. And and they really
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: insist that you know, they're right right across the way
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: from from Maine, and Maine conducts a year long lobster season,
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: and and they think that they should be able to
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: do that in order to really you know, access those
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: markets and and build you know, build up there their
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: fishery and their kind of way of life. Um. And
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: they're planning to do again this year. UM. And it
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: got so nasty last year and they're basically fighting against
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: the you know, the federal government of Canada. And so
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: they have this year requested you and peacekeepers to come
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: in and using little blue helmets exactly to come in
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: and avoid the the violence. UM. That's very wildly out
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: of the question because it's interesting because it ties into
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: the thing we were taught over the other day. Of
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: the other day, we had a law student who's from
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: the Choctaw Nation and he was explaining, like he's explained
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: the concept of sovereign nations that when our government, um
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: wanted to strike, like when our government wanted to negotiate
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: with tribes, they had to for our government to negotiate
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: with an entity like it can't negotiate with an entity
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: that's not a sovereign thing, so tribes became legally sovereign nations.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting that you'd say, like, no, our sovereign
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: and I know this is Canada, but like our sovereign nation,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: our tribe is in a dispute with another sovereign nation
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: of Canada. And what happens when two sovereign nations are
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: in dispute oftentimes the U N. Yeah, but but the
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: u N always Uh, it's far fetched. I think it's
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: the logic is. I think it makes a point, absolutely absolutely,
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: and I think it got it got a lot of attentions.
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: It got a lot of attention that we would be
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: talking about We wouldn't be talking about it right now
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: if they hadn't requested UN peacekeepers. Yeah, and you know,
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: and there's there's there's some kind of mixed up Supreme
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: Court decisions within this um that they affirmed the right
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: to a moderate livelihood from fishing and hunting um, which
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: which opened the door for First Nations in Canada to
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: be able to hunt and fish outside of the established
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: regulations and um, you know, pursue more more subsistence kind
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: of hunting and fishing. But then there was a follow
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: up to that um that indigenous treaty rights are subject
• 52:04
  Speaker 1: to regulation as long as the regulation is shown to
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: be justified on the grounds of conservation or other public importance.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: But would be helpful for people listening to kind of
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: understand this where I want to give a state side,
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: like a US version of something similar. Where UM in
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: your home state, Sam in Washington with razor clams. I
• 52:29
  Speaker 1: was reading about the regulatory structures from razor clams. So
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: there's a basis as a shellfish management panel, right, and
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: it includes representatives from the state of Washington, and it
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: includes tribal representatives from coastal tribes. They together like with
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: with each of these representatives are Each of these representatives
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: are represented by biologists who do shellfish surveys, and they
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: start out saying, like, what is the harvestable number of say,
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: razor clams on said beaches. It's already agreed that the
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: percentages of whatever is there, Yeah, are allocated tribal state
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: state being to anyone that goes and buys a state license,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: tribal being just the tribal members. So they already know
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: how they're going to cut it. They just don't know
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: how big the pie is, but they know how they'll
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: slice the pie. And every year they need to or whatever,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know, if it's every year, every two years, whatever,
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: they need to come to an agreement like okay, how
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: big is the buy and then we'll cut it in
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: a half. But that's sort of like the moving piece there. Absolutely,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: and that comes out of the nineteen seventy four Bolt Decision,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: which which was a byproduct of the salmon wars and
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: and where they were like there was actual gunfights out
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: in like the Straits Wanta Fuka among commercial salmon fishermen, um.
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: And what what that did was reaffirmed the treaty rights
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: of the tribes in Washington and and and cut it
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: in half. It's at fifty for triabal harvest fifty percent
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: for non indigenous. So that plays out across sam and
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: steel head, everything any fish you can or shellfish you can,
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: and crab and everything you can think of in Washington's
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: frustrates the hell out of people because I think a
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: lot of people look and um, I mean, I'm frustrates
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: the hell out of people on both sides, I'm sure,
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: but a lot of people look and they think themselves,
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: I'm an American, I belong to the state. We're all Americans.
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: I thought the whole thing with America's all Americans are equal.
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: Why is this not divided equally? Why do some Americans
• 54:34
  Speaker 1: get you know? And then and then on the other hand,
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: people are like, well, would be all mine? We're not
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: taken from me by your ancestors. And so I'm pissed. Two.
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: And it's getting it's getting especially sticky with steel head
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: right now, which are declining precipitously in in Washington's implementing
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: all sorts of different regulations. But you know, when I
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: wrote about this earlier this year, is that they banned
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: fishing from a boat on most of the coastal rivers
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: for steel head. Just what all they're trying to do
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: is exactly just trying to reduce the catch rate. But
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: you know, kind of a bit of the elephant in
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: the room and that discussion is the fact that all
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: of those rivers are still being gill net for wild
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: steelhead by the tribes. UM, and catching release does count
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: as take under some more recent court decisions. UM. But
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: you know that it's it's harder, harder mathematics now that
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: you know a lot of these steel head runs are
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: like under a thousand and the tribes still assert it
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: in their fifty take on a very small escapment um.
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: But you know, it's it's the math is a little
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: the math is pretty fuzzy because it's you know, it's
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: gill nets and stuff, and it's like you get these
• 55:48
  Speaker 1: days a week estimating how many you're going to get. Um.
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: You know, to me, it's important that they still have
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: that the right to do that and maintain those traditions.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: But on the other side of the lane, like and
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: some of the tribes are totally at the table here, like, hey,
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: there's a problem, we're trying to fix it. We're and
• 56:06
  Speaker 1: are working with w DFW and the other stakeholders to
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: try to solve those problems. But then there's there's some
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: other tribes who are like, God, pound sand, look at
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: the bolt decision, We have the right to do this. Yeah.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: I think that's one of the areas where there's a
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: lot of frustration would be that exercising tribal rights takes
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: precedent over sort of like the state of the resource,
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: and at a point it gets into the finger pointing.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: It's like, well, the resource wouldn't be screwed up if
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: it weren't for you guys. But it's like, okay, but
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: it's still screwed up. It was white men that put
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: cannaries on the mouse of all those rivers, you know,
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: years ago. But does that then mean that when you
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: have a population of a thousand fish entering a river,
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: does does the fact that it's your fault? I mean
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: that we should kill half? We should continue to kill
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: half of them every year as a as a display
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: of our tribal rights. It's tricky, No, it's tricky as hell.
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: You want a good segue? Yeah? Please? This connects Washington
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: with Canada. Phenomenal. So this was another Canadian Supreme Court
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: the case that was just decided um in two thousand ten.
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: Rick Diswattle of Washington State. He lives on the Confederated
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: Colville Reservation north of Spokane, crossed up into BC and
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: killed an elk out of season without a license, crossed
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: uh No, in his in his truck there with his
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: with his wife. So wasn't like he wanted across the
• 57:31
  Speaker 1: border without knowing it. No, No, this is very deliberate.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: He killed this elk and then reported himself and then
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: went and told the game warden, hey, I killed this
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: elk and I'm exert I'm exerting my treating international boundary. Yeah,
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: he's a member of the Sinics tribe or the Arrow
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: Lakes people that were traditionally lived in the Arrow Lakes
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: region of British Columbia. I don't know who that is,
• 57:53
  Speaker 1: but I'm told it's up there. The last Canadian member
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: of that clan died in nineteen fifty three, and it
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: had been declared an extinct clan by the Canadian government.
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: Basically when they're making you know, the reservation systems and
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: everything and and uh, you know more. Around the turn
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: of the century, that band mostly moved to Washington just
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: because they were kind of they kind of got squeezed
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: out of that area. Um, and very few were left
• 58:18
  Speaker 1: and then the last of them died. Um. But I
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: got a quote from from Rick to Swaddle in seventeen
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: he said, I knew for a fact of my ancestral
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: grounds were here. Um, if somebody didn't start this then
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: it would never get going. So he was he was
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: cited for this elk Like he went just went in
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: and said, hey, I did this, this, and I'm i'm this,
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: I'm exercising my treaty right, he was cited, he was
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: acquitted in trial, and then the Government of BC appealed
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: and lost, and then appealed and lost, and then appealed
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: to the Canadian Supreme Court. And they just recently ruled
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: um that he had the right to do that, that
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: that he is a Aboriginal person of Canada. Let's see um.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: It's ruling. The Supreme Court of Canada firms that, regardless
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: of citizenship or residency, Aboriginal peoples of Canada do Canada,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: do have rights and those rights are protected by the
• 59:20
  Speaker 1: Canadian Constitution. Um. And this is the first time that
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Court of Canada has interpreted what means to
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: be an Aboriginal people of Canada. And that does not
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: require living in Canada. It only requires that your ancestors did.
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: Was this his intention when he killed the elk? Yes,
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: this was This was definitely his This was his goal.
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: Did they seize the elk? That's a great question. I
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: don't know this one as well as her era. It's
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: gonna be dry age by No. That's really interesting, man. Yeah,
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: you want to think that there's a huge ramification, isn't.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's like there's like it's legally interesting, but
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: I don't know that it's going to be. That's you know,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: with with all of these it's easy to make a
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: lot of smoke. Yeah, but but it's not always it's
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: not always like it. It's not always born out that
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: it's hard to tell in practice, Like in practice, will
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: there would there be a flood of individuals leaving northern
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: Washington driving into BC and shooting elk or would it
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: be a thing that like will that become a thing
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: or is it just that it will be I wanted
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: to clarify that I could and ten years ago by
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: and you don't hear of anyone going elk hunting in
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: BC from the Colville. It's hard to know. It's a way,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: it's a waste, it's ways to travel, and that that
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 1: country up there is vast um and I'm not convinced
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: that the all kind of was it would be better there.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: And I believe that they have you know, treaty hunt
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: rights in Washington too. So yeah, that's a that's a
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 1: that's owns a head scratcher, and I need to read
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: more into it. It's interesting kind of duel citizenship. Yeah, Uh,
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: we're gonna hit on something quick. That we talked about
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: quite a bit. I don't want the hill a long
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: time ago. The Horrera case of Wyoming very similar in
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: that has to do with, like, you know, trying to clarify,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: codify treaty rights. So there's a guy in the Crow
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: Reservation Herrera, what was his first name, Cyn Cleaven Herrera
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: was on the Crow Reservation in Wyoming, former game warden UM.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: In January, he and two friends crossed out of the
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: Crow Reservation in Montana UH into the Yeah, into Wyoming.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: They crossed, they crossed the border on foot. They still
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: insist that they didn't mean to that, that they didn't
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: know they had crossed the border, but kind of immaterial
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 1: at this point. UM. And they killed a couple of
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: elk onto a national forest Bighorn Bighorn National Forest. UM
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: locals found some partially bushered animals, reported to game warden.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: He conducted an investigation UM, which was assisted to by
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: the fact that Claven Herrera reached out to him UM
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: asking if he had had knew about some poaching or
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 1: something like that because he was he was a warden
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: at that time, and which lad this this game warden
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: Dustin Sharma, who I've I've spoken to. UM started looking
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: at Herrera's Facebook page and saw pictures of him with
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: elk that He's like, that looks like it's on the
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: Big Horn National Forest. UM went up into that area
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: was able to match those photos UM to elk carcasses,
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: tribal game warden or tribal game warden. Yeah. UM. All
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: three men were charged with poaching and the animals are confiscated.
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: Two of them pleaded guilty, but Herrera claimed UM that
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: under the eighteen sixty eight second Treaty of Fort Laramie,
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 1: UM that gay and tied his tribal right to hunt
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: on the unoccupied lands of the United States so long
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: as game may be found there on. UM. So this
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: this has this had been litigated before in like, uh,
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: they that's an interesting go ahead language in the treaty,
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: very very interesting so long as game can be found
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: there on because it would say that at one point, elk,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: we're extirpated from the Bighorn National Forest. Yeah, but all
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 1: this stuff was there. I mean, yeah, it's just weird
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: to say that that. UM. Like let's say, let's say
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: there was no game there and then someone's walking around
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: they said, well, I'm hunting, and somebody like, but there's
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: no game here, you're violating treaty, right, there's no game here.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: It's just a weird thing to add in. I guess
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 1: they probably mean like in perpetuity. Yeah, but you know
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: eighteen sixty eight, you know as well as I do,
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: the you know, the Bison were on their way out
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: in that in that area, and so and some people
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: I have spoken to about this are like, yeah, that
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: was an acknowledgement of the fact that like they saw
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: it as like we're wiping it out, We're wiping out
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: this this area of of game, and it just strike
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 1: and all these things are so carefully worded. I would
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: love to talk to the person and be like, well,
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: if there's nothing there, who cares. I would love to
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: hear them and go like, oh yeah, but right, here's
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: why I want to clarify. And and but the word
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 1: unoccupied is by far the most interesting. That's that's the
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: sticky one. And and so this this went before the
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court January nineteen um and they were really interested
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: and unoccupied. And it's pretty interesting to read the transcripts
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: because they were just like goofing off on like what
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: couldn't signify occupation. Is that that because because there there's
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: there's past cases that have said that, um, the area
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: became occupied when Wyoming became a state, because all states
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 1: enter on the same footing and are able to manage
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: the game in the hunting within their territory. Whole other
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: court case said that those treaty rights had been extinguished
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: when the Bighorn National Forest was was designated and theme
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: occupied by the forest exactly became occupied by the Forest Service.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: The Supreme Court of the United States disagreed with that.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 1: They didn't overturn. They didn't go so far as to
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: overturn that specific opinion. And it's interesting because that specific
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: opinion was the exact same thing. It was a cro
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: tribal member crossing into Wyoming, into the Big Horn National
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: Forest and killing an elk. And so there there's and
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: that does Supreme Court decision from. But then there's another
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court case UM Minnesota versus Millock's Band of Chippwa
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: Indians that designation of of public land did not extinguish
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: hunting and fishing rights. And so basically all the Supreme
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: Court said is that there is unoccupied land. It did
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: not become occupied by statehood or designation of the of
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 1: the Bighorn National Forest. They toyed around with the ideas
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: like if it's close to a road in a trail,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: maybe that's occupied. But like, you know, a big gass
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: wilderness area, like you'd be hard pressed to prove occupancy
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: because you literally can't live there or stay there occupy
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: like the permanently occupy the area. So they said that
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: there is not occupancy and that the treaty right is
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: is well and good. But as the Supreme Court usually
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: does it, they gets very narrow ruling and then they
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: remanded it back to the lower courts. So they come
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: back and say that you people are going to need
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: to better defind some things exactly basically in the descent
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: that the Samuel Alito was like, you know, the real
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 1: issue here is is the is the concept of issue
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: preclusion because this same court case has been played out
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: before the Crow tribal member killed an elk on the
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: Big Horn National Forest and was prosecuted, and they said
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: that that that area was occupied. So that basically this
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 1: this first lower court uh just went back on that.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: They're like issue preclusion again because the Supreme Court of
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: the U. S didn't didn't address that except in the
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: in the descent and they said issue preclusion. So now
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 1: this is being appealed up from the county Circuit Court
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: to the to the Wyoming Circuit Court um, which will
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: likely hold in favor of issue preclusion again. So it'll
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 1: likely get appealed again. But where a major speed bump
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 1: in this comes. And so you know, a lot a
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: lot of people were supporting this guy, Claven Herrera going
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court, and there's the presumption that he'll
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: go there maybe maybe two more times to work out
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: a bunch of these issues. But he's gotten himself in
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: a lot of trouble with the law since then. In
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: Um he was charged with stealing a car in January,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: um buying meth in March. When they seized his phone,
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: they found eight hundred and fifty images containing um explicit
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: materials related to children. To be clear, these are all claims, right,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: This hasn't been this hasn't been gone through jury trial
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: or no. But he's been but he's been officially charged
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 1: with these with these crimes. And then in July he
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: was accused of strangling somebody. Yeah, so so this this
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: case was like draws into question his ability to revisit
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Court exactly. And it also draws into question
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: his ability to maintain the pro bono support of some
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: of the biggest and fanciest law firms in the United States,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: because the all those lawyers you know, are always thinking
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 1: about their public image and a and uh pro bon
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 1: giving pro bono support to an accused child pornographer does
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: not look good. And even the crow tribe isn't isn't
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: happy about this anymore. And they've been like pushing it
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 1: and pushing it and pushing it. So like what some
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: people who are reading the tea leaves now are like,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: they may drop this appeal, they may they may settle
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: this they they may end up not pursuing it. And
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: because the concept of issue preclusion makes it so difficult,
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: because this exact same issue has been litigated before, so
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: they may take a step back, let this one slide
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 1: like and you know, next time it goes before the
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court, cleavend Herrara maybe in prison. Um, so they're
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: they're like, what, they may stake a step back and
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: let somebody else go push the issue some other time.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: And if they were smart about it, they would have
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 1: them poach and elk on Blm land or shoot it,
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: shoot a deer in the in the Big Horn National
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: Forest because the issue of crow to Big Horn National
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: Forest and and killing an elk out of season, that's
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: already been litigated, and that's why we're issue preclusion thing.
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 1: So they need to take it. They need to take
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: a fresh crack at it if they if they want
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: to get their hunting rights in Wyoming. But it's worth
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: mentioning that after that Supreme Court decision, Montana was like, yeah,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: you guys are good. Like on public federal public land
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 1: in in Montana, the Crow tribe can exert their treaty. Right.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: Can you back up for a second and just explain that,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: because there's probably people that aren't familiar with what's going on.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: Like what her Ara is trying to establish here, presumably
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: is that they can go hunt these unoccupied lands without
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: following state fish and game laws. They're they're they're exercising
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: their right too kind of follow their own hunting regulations,
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 1: if you will, Like they can just go where they
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: want and when they want and hunt how they want
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: rather than following state laws exactly. Okay, And I think
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: the lesson that we had covered this, we sort of
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: drug it out to like the most extreme example would
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: be them going into like Yellowstone, which is within within
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 1: the territory they're they're old territory. Yeah, especially you said
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: federal land in Montana. Uh, there's like three of Yellowstone
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 1: National Park that's federal land in Montana. Yeah, so my
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 1: but Montana doesn't regulate the hunting within Yellowstone National Parks,
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: so that'd be a question for the Park Service specifically.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: But since we're into the concept you know, of of
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: optics here, that one's that's not a good look. You
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: would get Congress involved in on the wrong and on
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: again against you, and Congress would be the final arbiter
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 1: of something like this. So it'd be real bad idea
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: for for them to ever go try to shoot something
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: in Yellowstone. Um, and that that would go very poorly
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: go through. Oh I had a comment for it. You
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: jump on the next thing. What was interesting when this
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: went to the Supreme Courts was all these details like
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: rumors that you're here and I don't know how substantiated
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: they are. That um I had heard a rumor again,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: a rumor unsubstantiated, Like I don't don't have any evidence
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: of this, but I heard a room or from someone
• 1:12:00
  Speaker 1: that one of these elk had been shot on seventeen
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: or eighteen times. I don't if that's true or not.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 1: I had heard that, and I think it is born
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: out that they were only like gourmet butcher only part
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 1: portions and some elk backstraps, some some Yeah, so they
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: heads and backstraps. One elk not touched at all. Right,
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 1: and then you factor in the these new revelations or
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: these new things that coincidentally involved this individual. It's all
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: immaterial to the court. Like no one's saying, like the court,
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Court is gonna be like, yeah, well he
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 1: only just cut the head off. That's not cool. It's
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: like it doesn't matter to them. No one's asking them
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: their opinion about that. It's like can you go shoot out?
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 1: And so all these little details that in your head
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: are like, hey, I don't know, man, seems real, you know,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: seems fishy. It doesn't matter. It definitely matters now because
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: you know, the even even the members of the Supreme
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: Court are going to take note of of some of
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: this bigger, bigger stuff. But like especially like Holland and
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: Heart and the Crow tribe. They don't they they may
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: not want to have this guy's name tied up in
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 1: the in this big, in this big court case. It's
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: just it's a it's a bad look and uh, politically disastrous.
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: So the one final note I want to point out,
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: um again charged, yeah right right, alleged, Yeah, like he
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: was charged with. He hasn't gone, hasn't gone a court,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: It hasn't been like jury verdict. Charged. Yeah, and so
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: charge of stuff that they didn't do. But that's he
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: was charged. And I know a bunch about a bunch
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: more stuff that is purely alleged, not charged. And I'm
• 1:13:45
  Speaker 1: not even gonna go so far as to mention it here,
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: but formal charges. Yeah, exactly, Okay, try to uh here,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: let me see this one up, and I want to
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 1: talk about this one too. Then we're gonna we're gonna
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: move on to some different subjects. But but I know
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: where to start. In Alaska. You have, UM, Alaska is different.
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: You know, we were here down here in the Lower Ford.
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 1: You hear about reservations, right, tribal reservations in Alaska when
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: they've kind of divided up Alaska formally, UM, we created
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: these tribal corporations, right, and they maintain a lot of
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 1: subsistent tribes up there, maintained a lot of subsistence hunting
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: and fishing rights. Game is managed through like federal subsistence
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: boards and the state kind of negotiate together and come
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: up with rules. UM. A couple of years ago there
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: was a thing to happen in south central south central Ish,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: Alaska where a federal subsistence board made a move in
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: favor of tribal interests that limited big game hunting on
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: federal demount on federally managed public lands, limited big game
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: hunting to exclude certain individuals and to make it certain
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: like big game hunting for moose certain times a year
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: only open to tribal groups or subsistence sistence subsistence groups um.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: And those are pretty small areas. Now in Alaska there's
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: a move to I think it does it encompass sixty
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: million acres of federally managed public land to make it
• 1:15:26
  Speaker 1: tribal members that that subsist or tribal subsistence. For my
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 1: messiness upper is it just federal subsistence. Federal subsistence and
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: I think sixty million acres of federally managed land would
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: be closed to not just non residents of Alaska, but
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: closed to residents of Alaska. Sixty million acres closed the
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: residents of Alaska, and during the fall Big Game season
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: only open two federally recognized assistance users. Um just for
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: to demonstrate my own biases. I hunted this area one
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: time for care. But which would now be if this
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: goes through, which would be illegal for me to do. Yeah. Absolutely,
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: And I think it's really important to acknowledge the Rhode Islands. Yeah,
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 1: this is this is not a this is not a
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: tribal thing. This is this is not a tribe versus
• 1:16:27
  Speaker 1: versus the white man. This is this is everybody against everybody.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: A lot of these communities are very diverse, and have
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: you know a lot of Korean influence and uh, there's
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of there's a lot of a lot of
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 1: white people and all sorts of races out there. So
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's more locals versus outsiders. And that sixty
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: million acres is really easy to picture if you like
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 1: think of Alaska. It's basically like the upper left hand corner.
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: It's a giant area unit units twenty three and twenty
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: six A the Northwest Arctic UM and the and so Yeah,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: the Subsistence Board up there in April submitted a special
• 1:17:05
  Speaker 1: action and request to close that UM that that special
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: action request is submitted to the Federal Subsistence Board UM.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: That board is made up of three local subsistence hunting
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 1: community representatives and five representatives from government agencies including the BLM,
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: the Forest Service, National Park Service, US Fishing, Wildlife Service,
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 1: and the Indian Bureau of Indian Affairs UM. Basically, uh,
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: they they've been getting really upset with with with UM
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 1: out of outside hunters coming in like you and me
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: flying in. They think it's disturbing the migrations. But it's not.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: It's not a resource issue, it's social issue. It's a
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: social issue. The herd is strong, there's a lot of
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: animals as people don't want to deal. They don't want
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: to deal with other people. It's not like someone can say, like, hey,
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: that carib we're vanishing. It's that UM. There's a plenty
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: of animals, but the spot I go to and sometimes
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 1: there's other people they're not don't want those other people
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: to be there. Well, and you need to explain that.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker 1: Like so it's what is subsistent. What is the subsistence
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 1: subsistence community? Like, what's the difference here? Certain certain in
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: certain zip codes, your your subsistence using you can qualify
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: not in a major metric, not a major urban area.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 1: Is that an economic space thing? Yeah? I think you
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: could be Bill Gates with all his troubles. Bill Gates
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: could live in uh. Bill Gates could live in certain
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: areas ones up being the majority of Alaska and be
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: a local subsistence user. It has nothing to do with
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: your has nothing to do with your means, as to
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 1: do with your primary place of resident. What I'm saying is,
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: what's the difference between subsistence and say, if I went
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: up there to hunt, you would not be up there
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 1: hunting under for the subsistence law. You would not be
• 1:18:50
  Speaker 1: hunting under federal subsistence. Let me give you, Okay, if
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: I lived at if I moved my fish shack, okay,
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 1: and that became a primary place of residence is at
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: my fish chack, I would be able to right now
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: on federal lands, my dear season as a or if
• 1:19:16
  Speaker 1: I lived in Fairbanks or Anchorage or anywhere in the
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: lower forty eight Okay, as a person lives in Montana
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: has a fish shack there. I can hunt deer on
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: federal lands starting on August fifteen. If I lived at
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 1: my fish shack full time, I could start hunting deer.
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: I think sometime in June. I am limited to only
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: antlered deer. If I lived at my fish shack full time,
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: I could shoot dose. If I lived in my fish
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: shack full time, I could run a halibit long line
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: with thirty hooks. If I lived in my fish shack
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: full time, I could run ninety black cod hooks on
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 1: a on a long line. Yeah, that's why I would
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: have I would have no halibate limit off my long line.
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: That's why I have. I have a halibut limit of
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 1: two per day. This way, the subsistence rules and regulations
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: are different. You can run and it's it's funny in
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: some areas because you could live an anchorage. But there's
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: areas where if you go and you're you're an Alaska
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: resident in a subsistence area, you can then operate under
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: subsistence regulations. For instance, a person from Anchorage could go
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: to certain areas on the Alaska Peninsula and run a
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: drift gillnet. Does your brother do any of that, Like
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: does he have access to that? No, I don't know,
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: but you know they do. See it gets a little
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: I get a little bit over my waiters on this
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: because they go dip Like he every year goes dip netting.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: So he every year goes to the copper or Kenai
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: whatever these rivers um and they'll go down there and
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: it's like you're a loud twenty five sock eyes for
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 1: the head of a household and ten sock eyes forevery
• 1:20:50
  Speaker 1: additional household member, and you can net them. Can you
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: explain the principle of I mean, I think we know
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 1: what subsistence means as a word, but the principle of
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 1: establishing subsistence, Yeah, it was that when Alaska entered into
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: statehood no Anilka. That's what established as we know today. Yeah,
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: so the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act. I probably
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 1: got that backwards, but um in the seventies, which was
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: what you know under the Carter administration, which was what
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 1: kind of created the the tapestry of the federal public
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: lands that we know today in Alaska. That's what established
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 1: the reagonal subsistence boards and the system that we know.
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: And it also gave pre eminence of subsistence harvest over
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: recreational harvest. So in any of these considerations, subsistence comes first.
• 1:21:47
  Speaker 1: The people who the people who actually live off the land,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: they get they get they get first, they get first.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: Helping always, but no, go ahead. It doesn't need to
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 1: be the act. They don't define it. It doesn't need
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 1: to be that you actually live off the land. It's
• 1:22:04
  Speaker 1: where you live, right, billionaire and eat twinkies. I have
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: a great example. And you could be a subsistence You
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 1: can be a subsistence users just where you live. And
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 1: I think, and I'm pretty sure when I was talking
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: about the dip netting, I don't even think that's federal.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: I think that's a state thing. But still state. I
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 1: think dip netting is still states. I'm sure thousand people
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 1: correct me on that. Again. Man, it's a it's a
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: byzantine Um like regulatory structure that I know a little
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: snippets of. I am not a subject matter expert on
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: this stuff. Yeah, And and it is really interesting. Byzantine
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: might be a good word for it, because these regional
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: subsistence boards, of which they are ten um, basically can
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 1: do a lot of the season setting for the area
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: within you know, within their kind of their their territory. Um.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: So this this Regional Subsistence Board in the Northwest ARTIC
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 1: has submitted this special action request to close cariboo and
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: moose harvest during the cariboo and moose season for just
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: just this year. That's what the special action request August
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 1: in September closed to non federally qualified subsistence. It has
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: the final goal here, no, of course not no. And
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: it's worth pointing out here that the State Game Agency
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: hates us, hates this because they're their management authority. Their
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: management authority is being pulled, attempting. People are attempting to
• 1:23:28
  Speaker 1: pull their management authority from a quadrant of the state.
• 1:23:33
  Speaker 1: And it's not even an issue of resource abundance, no,
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: not at all. And they're fighting that. That that the
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: one you mentioned that from a couple of years ago previously,
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 1: the nel China Unit g MU. They're fighting that in
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 1: court like tooth and nail and um they they said,
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: I mean um. Ben Mulligan, who I talked to last night,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: said like all avenues available to us. You know, this
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 1: is like all out war against this. So there was
• 1:23:57
  Speaker 1: a hearing on April on April before the Federal Subsistence Board. UM,
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 1: and that was pretty interesting. I wasn't actually able to
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: go to it, but ran four and a half hours long. Uh.
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: They opened a five day written comment period. All of
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 1: this is brand new. They're they're used to being a
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 1: rubber stamp agency. They're used to being thanked for everything
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 1: they do by these subsistence communities because there does their
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: Their government governing structure is meant to be very permissive
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: towards these regional subsistence boards and to be to assist
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: them in what they would like to do and the
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: changes they'd like to seek. And they're not used to
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 1: anybody paying any any the slightest bit of attention. There's
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: never more than a dozen people there and it's mostly
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 1: just like agency representatives. They took um spoken testimony from
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: a hundred and six people over six hours or something. UM.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: They're fourteen in support of this special action request and
• 1:24:53
  Speaker 1: ninety two against it. UM. There were several like entire families,
• 1:24:56
  Speaker 1: including the grandfather, father son, grandson. Kind of because you're
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 1: you're locking out. It's a lot of stuff in Alaska.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: You look at it being like outsiders versus insiders, you know,
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: certain bag limit things and like you know, you kind
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 1: of non residents pay more, they have less, you know,
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: less access to resources, and and that's fine. That's that's
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: how it goes in every state. This is like Alaskans
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 1: against Alaskas. This is saying to Alaskans, um, you just
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: lost access to too, like the northwest quadrant of your
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: state on federal land. It's also a violation. There's always been,
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: not always. I think that in the country we strive
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: towards this sort of like separation church and state. You
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: have a lot of federally managed lands, right, and I
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: think that's a great system. Federally managed public lands are
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: pretty secure. And I like federally managed public lands, while
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: they found it at its best is managed by the state.
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: Some people be like how can they both? How how
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: can it be okay for the government to manage land
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 1: and stay selangel wild? Like it just works really good
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: and I don't like to see Yeah, it round up
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: and it's been successful and people don't want to see
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: it interrupted. Yeah, ain't broke. Are the locals that are
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: in support of this, the minority of locals that are
• 1:26:06
  Speaker 1: in support of this justifying it because they're saying they're
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: having a harder time feeding themselves or what. So that's
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 1: what they're saying. They believe that Caribou migrations have been
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: drastically interrupted, and they're blaming that on outside hunting, where
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of people are like, might be climate change,
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 1: the snow patterns, the weather patterns, the seasonal UH temperature
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: has been a lot different, well, plus migrations migration. I mean,
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: it's a whole field of study. Carribou migration routes change
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: gradually all the time. And this Cariboo population Ta tonics,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: they drift all over the place. Yeah, for twenty years
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: they'll cross the river in some place and then twenty
• 1:26:46
  Speaker 1: years ago by and they don't come within a hundred
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: miles there. Yeah, And like s C I and b
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 1: H A and t R c P all submitted comments
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: on this and have taken an active role. And that's
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: what I mean. B h A specifically in my article
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: about this, I quote you guys said, it's saying like, hey,
• 1:27:02
  Speaker 1: you know, might be some other it might be some
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: other things, but there's also an element of um. There's
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: a lot of stuff in the in the testimony and
• 1:27:11
  Speaker 1: in the special action request about poor treatment from outsiders
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 1: that people are are rude to them when they run
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 1: into them on the co Book River, that that they like,
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: this guy was an asshole to me. Social it's it's
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 1: completely social issue. I don't think you can hold sixty
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 1: million acres of land hostage over some people not getting along.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 1: There are other ways to solve There are other ways
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: the resolve issues, especially when people have you know, a
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 1: constitutional right to the same access to that you know
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: for a service or US Fish and Wildlife Service ground uh.
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 1: We first covered this on the website on April sixteenth.
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 1: Now over a month later, has the sentiment changed at
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: all around this or like organizations in the state and
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: everyone else, they all still have the same stance as
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: a month ago. The trenches are deeper. UM. This is
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 1: likely going to going to go before of a vote
• 1:27:59
  Speaker 1: of the board in mid June. The date hasn't been
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: set yet. UM and A d F and G is
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 1: is very worried that it's going to pass. Like Fishing Game,
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: Alaska's fishing game. My my my contact Ben was was
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: saying that it's like it's very likely that this will pass.
• 1:28:15
  Speaker 1: The board may try to the bit board may try
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 1: to dismiss it. They may try to seek compromise, they
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: may also pass it. So, like I said, there's eight
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: members of that board, three of which are regional subsistence representatives.
• 1:28:32
  Speaker 1: One's Bureau of Indian Affairs, so that's four in favor
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 1: of The rest are federal agencies. The one from the
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 1: parks are the guy from the Park Services new So
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 1: they don't really know how he's going to go, but
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 1: they've and they've had they've had a hung vote before
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 1: because it's it's even numbers, so like that, they're they're
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 1: working on that math. They don't know, but they're definitely
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: bracing for this to go through. You know, this is
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 1: like if you have any interest in any interest in
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: hunting or fishing in Alaska, this song you gotta pay
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: attention to her. The more talking about the guy crossing
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: from Washington and to BC to shooting out, it's like
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: significant legally, but what is it really going to mean
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: this right here, because there are plenty of other areas.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 1: We're already talking about sixty million acres, there are plenty
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 1: of other areas to say like, oh, you mean, we
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 1: can just cite the fact that we don't want to
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: have to deal with competition as a reason to shut
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 1: down millions of acres of federal land and make it
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: that it's for us only. You don't think that that's
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 1: going to be an appealing prospect to people. Yeah, it potentially, um,
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: it potentially completely completely rewrites what if they said, Prince
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 1: of Wales, is you know for blacktailed the blacktail deer
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: harvest has been because one time I was going to
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 1: fish this spot and there was another guy there. He
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 1: had a bunch of TV cameras with him. You know,
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 1: this is this is a perfect example. I mean, populations
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: are growing, there are more people on the landscape, more people,
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: you know, using all of this space and interacting and
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: social science is a huge problem, and we're not equipping
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: our agencies with social scientists like we should. We're you know,
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 1: we're expecting these biologists who are used to managing animals, right,
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 1: that's the job is managing animal populations. They're now in
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 1: the throes of managing people and the people interaction with
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: the people, and then the people interaction with the animals.
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 1: And um, they need they need more tools in their
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: chest to be managing this will be in your in
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 1: your opinion, what would be one of those tools, literally
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: more social scientists working with the agencies actually dealing with
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 1: people interactions so the biologists can work on the animals. Um,
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: it's about people interaction. You see things like that in
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: Montana all the time. You see you know, the Madison
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: going crazy, you see controversy over there. You just see
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: this stuff is happening. It's increasing increasing as more people
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 1: are outside enjoying everything that we enjoy. Yeah, UM, explain
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: your job a little bit. My job Director of Innovatible Alliance.
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know what. I don't know what that means. Yeah.
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: So I have created and building out a business development
• 1:31:13
  Speaker 1: and fundraising arm for back country hunters and anglers. Um
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: So Yeah, basically, I like to call our team the
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: energy development team. So we're out finding resources, um to
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: support all of our members work on the ground. What
• 1:31:26
  Speaker 1: does that look like? Money? Fundraising, fundraising and partnerships, working
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: with people like you've been on b h a's board
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 1: for a long time or b h A volunteering and
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 1: board member positions state level? Yeah? And I you know,
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: I have a I have a super fun career path
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: and life that has led me in amazing directions. Um.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: I started working with b h A as a volunteer
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: when I worked for a farms manufacturer. UM. Actually, um,
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: you know, Kimber Manufacturing, and you know, sold guns and
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 1: started um displaying at rendezvous UM back you know, like
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: eight nine years ago, and yeah, go and set up
• 1:32:06
  Speaker 1: and and talk about guns and UM that's how I
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: got to know b h A. I just you know,
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: in that action, started interacting with the members of b
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: h A and was just like so awe struck by
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 1: the amazing people who are out there really caring about
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 1: and loving public lands and wildlife and hunting and angling heritage.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 1: And so I started to get more involved with the organization. UM.
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: Then you know, through volunteering and everything. UM, became a
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 1: board member on the national board. UM. And then I
• 1:32:36
  Speaker 1: ended my work. UM. I was tapped as I was
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: working for the gun manufacturer kind of living a pretty
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 1: awesome life just roaming the world hunting and shooting. That's
• 1:32:45
  Speaker 1: kind of what my job was. So no one can
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: really argue with that. I know you guys don't know
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 1: what that's like, but UM, not at all. UM. The
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: governor of Montana came and tapped me on the shoulder
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 1: and said, hey, I heard you might be good at
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 1: creating this thing called an office about a recreation, And
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: I said, I don't even know what that is, but
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 1: sounds amazing. Maybe I would be no problem, no problem,
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 1: let's figure this out. So Montana was a fourth state
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: to create an offs about de recreation. I started working
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: for the governor in two thousand late SEV. Who are
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: the other three? The very first was Utah UM, followed
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: very quickly by Colorado and Washington. So Montana became number four,
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: quickly followed by Wyoming. Then there were eight of us.
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 1: The eight of us formed what's called the Confluence Accords UM,
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 1: and now there are sixteen states to do. What are
• 1:33:31
  Speaker 1: the offices? Like, what is the sort of purpose of
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: the offices aboutdoor recreation? Yeah, the purpose of the office
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: about the recreation. I think it's the culmination of something
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: that we've all known for a very long time and
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: we've seen for a very long time. UM. As economies
• 1:33:47
  Speaker 1: grow and change in states, So you know, back at
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 1: the turn of the century, states like Montana or other states,
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: they discovered like, oh, agriculture is a really important part
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: of our economy, Like this is a big contributor or livestock, right,
• 1:34:01
  Speaker 1: like UM ranching from like these really important parts of
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 1: our economy, and so they would form like Department of
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: Agricultures and States and so dedicated to protecting guarding. Yeah,
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: just making sure. So the Office about Derecreation UM in
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: Montana House and the Governor's office, Um, they're all they're
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 1: all very similar but different in some ways. But it's
• 1:34:21
  Speaker 1: really formally identifying that outdoor recreation is a very significant
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: part of state and federal the federal economy. Um. And
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: so why don't we have and it has tentacles and
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 1: fingers and like everything, and so why don't we have
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: one person that's their job to look through everything through
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: that lens about de recreation and identify what is helping
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: this economy, what is hindering this economy? Um? What are
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: the unique facets of this economy that we need to
• 1:34:49
  Speaker 1: look at in a different way? Um. So really, I
• 1:34:51
  Speaker 1: mean this is conversation and work that's been going on
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: for years and years, but it's just slowly manifested itself
• 1:34:56
  Speaker 1: into this UM. So Yeah, it's it's very interesting, it's
• 1:35:00
  Speaker 1: very positive, it's it's great. And then the then the
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: winds of change, right, So you came in under a
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 1: governor he turned out, Yeah, Yeah, I worked for Governor Bullock. Um,
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: he was a two term governor. He's done and will
• 1:35:14
  Speaker 1: the office? Will the office continue to run on a
• 1:35:16
  Speaker 1: different leadership. It's still remains to be seen. It's a
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 1: permanent office that's been created and it's up to the
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: new governor if they want to appoint somebody. Have they
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: staffed They haven't staffed it. They haven't staffed quite a
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: few things. Is there an argument? Uh? Is there an
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: argument for that? Is it plausible that they would be
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 1: like that? That didn't need to happen in aw'll go away? Um?
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 1: Are Anything's possible for sure. But you're not involved in
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: that conversation. Oh no, not involved in it at all.
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 1: But you know it's Um, it would be unfortunate. You
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: know from Montana, you know a very significant portion of
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: our state's economy is linked to out to recreation. We
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: have these amazing numbers. And two sixteen, the Wreck Act
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: was passed and that was actually the federal government like
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: identifying that, like wow, the recreation economy is like really,
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: like how big is it? And so they passed the
• 1:36:03
  Speaker 1: Wreck Act and that basically mandated the Bureau of Economic
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: Analysis Analysis to establish a sub account like a prototype
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 1: sub account. UM. Really you know, identifying you know, what
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: does outdore creation contribute to the economy because like you
• 1:36:18
  Speaker 1: and I, like we all sit in this room and
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: we're like, oh my god, outdoor recreation is what we do.
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: It's our way of life. It makes us feel good,
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: it makes us feel alive, We're healthy, we're happy. Um,
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: we all make our living around this. Like I was
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 1: a fishing guide for a while, I was in the
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 1: ski industry for a while, I was in the gun industry.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 1: Like that's how I have made my livelihood as through
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 1: record recreation. So clearly it has a second on my impact.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 1: So actually there are three, um I believe economic firms
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 1: that worked on them. One is here in Bozeman. It's
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: called Headwaters Economics. They consulted with the e A. They
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 1: created UM the very first economic numbers in the US
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 1: related to our g d P as it relates to recreation. UM.
• 1:36:55
  Speaker 1: Their first numbers were believe it was two point two
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: percent of the U S g d P is contributed
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 1: to outdoor recreation. And that's everything, that's the spectrum, that's
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 1: the that's the barefoot trial, tree walk in, Sleeping under
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: the Stars, and going out and killing stuff. Right, that's
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: the whole rainbow of us. But man, I've seen some
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 1: too that that have the that capture these huge numbers,
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 1: and you look and they're counting like Ebagos. Absolutely that's
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 1: part of this. Yeah, it's motorized, it's non motorized. I'm
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 1: a super outdoors for some people. What I'm saying it
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 1: like it catches a lot of stuff. It does. It
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: catches a lot of stuff. Um, And so to put
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: into perspective, two, that's twice the size of the U. S.
• 1:37:39
  Speaker 1: Automotive industry. That's twice the size of the U. S.
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: Pharmaceutical industry. So it's a huge, you know, portion of
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: our economy. The part that I think is really interesting
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 1: is and I'm gonna botch this one. The numbers are
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: not quite right, but I believe there's like it's like
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: seventy two. Like if you look at g d P,
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 1: there's like seventy two categories of like basement GDP. And
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 1: when somebody establishes a sub account, they actually say, okay,
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: like what parts of this is contributed? Um? But outdoor
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: recreation touches like someone godly number. Like I think it's
• 1:38:10
  Speaker 1: like sixty eight of seventy two. Like basic US you
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 1: know GDP functions, So recreation like has its its fingers
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 1: and everything. Um, do you think there will ever be
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: a Secretary of Recreation in the US. So here's the
• 1:38:26
  Speaker 1: but here's the funny part, is like that I've now
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: worked with some really remarkable people in d C and um,
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: you know with the Park Service and the BLM and
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: the four Service and just so many great people. Uh.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: There was a period of time where we actually had
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: an office about de recreation federally for a brief period
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: of time. UM, And I wonder who, I don't know,
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: we gotta go look at it. But I remember he
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: was He was like oo back in the day we
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 1: had this, And I was like what I didn't know
• 1:38:49
  Speaker 1: about that? Um. So yeah, it's it's a it's really interesting.
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 1: It's it's great. Uh. Where were you born? Was born
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 1: a white Fish, Montana? So that was your tie to Um?
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: Is that were Kimberg's based No, the sales office, there's
• 1:39:03
  Speaker 1: part of it in um kalispell Yeah, I so I Um,
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 1: I'm a Montana girl. UM. I have been told I'm
• 1:39:09
  Speaker 1: embedded like a tick. And I guess I'm going to
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: own it. I just I'm owning it my entire adult career.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 1: I've traveled the world and every time I come back
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 1: to white Fish, I'm like, and I'll live in the
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 1: best spot you know. So, um, yeah, I actually my
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: parents were born there, My grandparents were born there. I
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 1: was born there. I'm finally held stay there and raise
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 1: my boys there. It's a great place to be. I
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: have two boys. Um, they're twelve and fourteen. Do you, um,
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 1: when you were a little did you did you like,
• 1:39:36
  Speaker 1: did you like think about and identify that there's an
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: outdoor industry in which you would work or was it
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: just that that's what life was and it didn't seem
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: like a it didn't seem like a like a thing
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 1: you would move into. You just went into it. So
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know if we were I don't know if
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 1: it's classified like that, but yeah, very actually apparent because
• 1:39:54
  Speaker 1: I grew up my dad was a hunting and fishing
• 1:39:56
  Speaker 1: guide and a knife maker, and so literally I spent
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: my summer breaks about ornament on his on a whitewater
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: raft going down the middle fork of the Flathead right
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 1: like that was he took me to work with him. Um,
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 1: I would go on fishing trips with him. I would
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 1: do seven day packing trips with him, Like that's how
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 1: I spent my summers. And so my dad was in
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 1: the wreck business right like he was a guide and
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: he knew all of this and something that I look
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: back on, um, you know, because I was exposed to
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 1: so many people coming to experience what I lived like
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 1: it was my every day and like there are people
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: that are saving years and they're coming and having experience
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 1: like a once in a lifetime experience that's literally changing
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: their being. It's changing their thought patterns. And I didn't
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: have the context to put that in, but I watched it, right,
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: I would watch these people just like lose their minds
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: and just you know, see everything and like the but
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 1: the water, like I can see the bottom like how
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: you know, like it's so deep? You know. My dad
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: would crack wise jokes like they're like how do you
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: water would be like just tow to a duck, you know,
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: like a you know, to guide you know thing. But
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: UM didn't know. Like the thing is that I understood
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: is that I didn't know where they came from and
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 1: I didn't know what they're like life was like. But
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 1: clearly I have it way better than they do because
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: they were dying over what I just called my everyday life.
• 1:41:15
  Speaker 1: And obviously, as I grew older, like I definitely be
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 1: you know, I started to put that into context. Um
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: you know, I started working in fly shops before I
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: was old enough to pull a paycheck in exchange for
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 1: fly tying material and fly rods. I was like my
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: sport that I did. I was a competitive rifle shooter.
• 1:41:30
  Speaker 1: Like I didn't. He's like, you're tall, You're a big girl.
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 1: You must be a basketball player. And I'm like, I
• 1:41:34
  Speaker 1: can't dribble ball to save my life. But it has
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 1: it has a trigger is a totally different story. And
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: so as a competitive rifle shooter, um you know it,
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: thought about leaving, you know to go to school. Wasn't interested.
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 1: I wanted to stay in Montana and you never see
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: Montana Resource conservation is my degree. I chalked it up
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: to being an over educated fly fisherman because they were like, okay,
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: so to get a job, you got to go to
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 1: Oklahoma or Nebraska and like work on mud puddles. And
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not sign up for this. I'm
• 1:41:58
  Speaker 1: staying in Montana. And so went into the organic produce industry,
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: like randomly because I could stay there. So I was
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: actually like brokering produce from field to table on the
• 1:42:08
  Speaker 1: national market at the age of like twenty two. And
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 1: then I got a knock on the door and they
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 1: were like, hey, we heard you sell stuff, and you're
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 1: from Whitefish and you can ski. We've got a ski
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: and ski out office. You could be a regional ski
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 1: you know, ski salesperson for Big Mountain Ski resort. I
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 1: was like, you want to pay me more money to
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: have a ski and ski out office, and I'm going
• 1:42:25
  Speaker 1: to travel the US partying, golfing, skiing and drinking and
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: convincing people to come ski and totally do that. I
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 1: got this. I totally golf. Yeah, does not look like
• 1:42:42
  Speaker 1: he just he doesn't look like But I golf with
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 1: a lot of guys that look like you. So the
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: golf is in this room, yea. And I got that
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: tree tattoo and stuff. You're not gonna let you golf anymore. Drink.
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: I show up to drink, and then I golf while
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: I'm there. Yeah, so that's great. On the golf course,
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: I spent my I spent my twenties like just like
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: in the ski industry, and just like having a great life,
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: was married, UM had kids, and UM decided I'd stay
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: at home, stayed at home and work part time. And
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: then I was like, Okay, I'm gonna go back into
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 1: like the work, you know, work, Like what do I
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: want to do when I grow up? And I was
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: at a rocky Mountinolk Foundation banquet and I was with
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: my cousins and I was pretty drunk, and I turned around.
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: I saw my buddies have worked for Kimber. I was like, oh, Kimber,
• 1:43:27
  Speaker 1: I got a Kimber. They still guns. I love guns.
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: I could sell guns. So I just inquired and ended
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 1: up getting hired on and worked for Kimber for eight years.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 1: And now here I am, um, is your dad's a
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: little guide? Is he still alive? He is still alive.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: He is not guiding um he Um. He's a knife maker.
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: So my great grandfather started a knife making business called
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: Track Knives that turned into Schmidt Knives. And so my
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: dad actually has always been a knife maker, but then
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: with just guide on the side, stopped doing that. He
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: actually was in blacksmith thing. He's done amazing eximithing work,
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 1: but he no longer guides is he is your old man.
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: Um and like if you imagine your grandfather and stuff.
• 1:44:10
  Speaker 1: Are they sympathetic to the cause of b h A
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: or they have been like reflexively not love love. My
• 1:44:19
  Speaker 1: dad loves b h A, loves it, loves it. Um,
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: he's you know, he's even I've helped him write op
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 1: eds in support of like wild and scenic rivers. And Um,
• 1:44:28
  Speaker 1: my grandfather actually was super tight with my grandfather. He
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 1: and I. He was my best fishing buddy and I'm
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: so thankful to have had all those years fishing with him. Um.
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: But he uh no, it's it's very like they're they're
• 1:44:41
  Speaker 1: very like they're b h people. For sure, they didn't
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: have that. They didn't. Um, I mean you're telling me
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: they didn't. But uh, even like dating back that far,
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: they didn't have a sort of a reflexive like not
• 1:44:53
  Speaker 1: really liking um strong public lands advocacy or restrict actions
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: on public lands that might be like tinder industry. Well,
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: so and I come from so, I come from extractive industry.
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 1: So my grandfather was in the timber industry for sixty years. Um,
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 1: and so Q was involved in you know, like I mean,
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: like seriously like the logging of the sixties and the
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 1: seventies and the eighties, and in Whitefish, white Fish was
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: a timber town. The original name of Whitefish was Stumptown
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: because it was clear cut and the railroads came in.
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: And so Whitefish is this like literally this quintessential snapshot
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: of the evolution of the West and the economy and
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 1: how things are shifting. And Whitefish really kind of I
• 1:45:35
  Speaker 1: think was like a little bit of head you know,
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: like one of the first towns to go through that.
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 1: But literally, my my generations of my family, like paint
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: that picture. My grandfather was in banking and mining right
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 1: with the other grandfather. Um. And so what happened though,
• 1:45:51
  Speaker 1: is that obviously in the eighties, I mean like timber
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: harvests and everything, like you know, it was there were
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: yellow signs everywhere that was like this this family is
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: supported by the timber industry. Right, Like when the timber
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: industry was crashing, it was putting so many people out
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: of work, continued to put people out of work through
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: the two thousand's, right, like all the mills were shutting down. Um.
• 1:46:09
  Speaker 1: But what was happening is like at the same time
• 1:46:11
  Speaker 1: that like the timber industry and everything started to go down.
• 1:46:14
  Speaker 1: Whitefish is this amazing little community with this lake that's
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: really fun to like boate on. And then there was
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: a bunch of people in town that thought this like
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: big bald mountain up on top, you know, out of
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: town would be kind of fun to like go downhill
• 1:46:25
  Speaker 1: on and those ski things like you know back in
• 1:46:27
  Speaker 1: the day, like my other grandfather was one of the
• 1:46:29
  Speaker 1: first people to pioneer big mountain ski resort um, which, um,
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: you know it's it's so you saw this like gradual
• 1:46:36
  Speaker 1: increase of like this recreation opportunity as the timber industry
• 1:46:41
  Speaker 1: dove and that crossover period was in my life and
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 1: that was a really hard time. Um. And now you
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: you do see that recreation um, you know, resort kind
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 1: of community growing and evolving into then it becomes amenity based,
• 1:46:57
  Speaker 1: and then it becomes and it starts pulling in industry.
• 1:46:59
  Speaker 1: So so you guys, your family would be like, um,
• 1:47:03
  Speaker 1: it's almost like this like Larry McMurtry novel about the
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: like Lonesome Dove Man. Okay, I was thinking, like the
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: last picture show, all my friends are going to be
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: on nwees, Oh is it all my friends are gonna
• 1:47:16
  Speaker 1: be strangers. Anyways, he writes about the transformation of the
• 1:47:19
  Speaker 1: American West. So if you capture like generationally loggers, miners,
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: and then like big game guides and then outdoor recreation,
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 1: it's like just the evolution. So the flat the Old
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: West of the New West. Man when you talked about
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 1: like okay, so like my my grandparents, my grandparents, my father,
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: like do they find like this like resentful like nature
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 1: of more protection on lands And it's like, actually that area,
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: the flat of River system was one of the first
• 1:47:45
  Speaker 1: world and senior river systems in the country. And as
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: a result, like they were the first ones to see
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: it laid out, it had zero impact on anything anyone did.
• 1:47:55
  Speaker 1: It only improved the way of life and improved everybody's
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: you know, just lifestyle and so yeah, like so it's
• 1:48:03
  Speaker 1: totally different, you know up there. Every time, you know,
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: more protections established, like the more the community thrives and
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: the better people are doing. Um, there's you know, the
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 1: white Fish Legacy Partners have started the Whitefish Trail System,
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: and the Whitfish Trail System is this like amazing network
• 1:48:20
  Speaker 1: of trails, multiple use trails that are in and around
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: Whitefish and It was started by residents for residents because
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: they were illegally poaching trails on state timberlands and that
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: timberland was going to be sold off into development. There
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 1: was a bunch of like bikers that were like, no,
• 1:48:36
  Speaker 1: this is crap, like you can't do that. I was like, yeah,
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: actually we can. And so now we have this amazing
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 1: trail system that contributes like six point three million dollars
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 1: to the Whitefish economy every year just by its existence,
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: um and so, yeah, it's been a very proactive community,
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: very aggressively proactive community with surrounding land managers and um
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: just evolving what it is to live there. This is
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: a huge deal from Montana. Montana is way behind the
• 1:49:11
  Speaker 1: eight ball in funding recreation. And then we could go
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: off on tangents talking about who really funds recreation, who
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: funds our infrastructure? Um and so in Montana we've been
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: very behind. We don't have any state funding mechanisms of
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 1: significance to fund trail maintenance and expand all this kind
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: of stuff. Whereas states like Colorado it's called go co.
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 1: They it's literally like, isn't like like one tenth of
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: one percent of lottery dollars in Colorado equals four hundred
• 1:49:39
  Speaker 1: million dollars a year to go towards recreation and conservation.
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: And so we've not And there's there was a big
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: there's a big paper that was done I think in
• 1:49:48
  Speaker 1: like two thousand and sixteen, and it was statewide funding
• 1:49:51
  Speaker 1: funding mechanisms for outdoor recreation and that the array of
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: different ways that states will fund it. Um and Montana
• 1:49:56
  Speaker 1: literally had virtually no a no fund. So if you
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: come up with a oh my god, this is a
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: brand new tax, you know resource like, how often does
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: something new come along that you can tax? Right, So
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: you've got this new tax and that's why everybody's like,
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 1: we want the money, right. And it's a great opportunity
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: though for us to you know, figure out a way
• 1:50:17
  Speaker 1: to start investing in our recreation infrastructure. Now when you
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: say when you say outdoor recreation, I gather that you
• 1:50:24
  Speaker 1: picture a big umbrella. There's a very big umbrella. Um,
• 1:50:29
  Speaker 1: you're not just talk about like you think about our
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: recreation beyond hunting and angling. Yes, But now in your
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: in your new situation at b h A, you've got
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 1: to kind of refocus, right. Um, Well, you guys aren't
• 1:50:41
  Speaker 1: like b H a isn't beholding of the ski community. No, no, no, exactly.
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: They do appreciate the fact that I come with such
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: a broad background and understanding. Um. I also, you know,
• 1:50:50
  Speaker 1: definitely on the scene when I was an office about
• 1:50:52
  Speaker 1: direct you know, director I was, I was kind of
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: the hunting and Angling girl, like I was that representative.
• 1:50:58
  Speaker 1: I was that voice and all of us because you know,
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: quite honestly, when I first came in and there were
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: eight directors and then more and we would be having
• 1:51:05
  Speaker 1: conferences and we're having discussions, I'm sorry, hunting and angling
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 1: is not well represented in the broader conversation about the recreation.
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: And that was really really concerning to me. So that's
• 1:51:15
  Speaker 1: why I made sure to really try and elevate that conversation.
• 1:51:19
  Speaker 1: You mean, when people would say, from an like from
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: an industry or governmental perspective, outdoor wreck they were biking, skiing, correct,
• 1:51:27
  Speaker 1: like ari I stuff correct not And so that's why
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: it's constantly bringing it back around. And you know, like
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: I've heard you say non consumptive or consumptive, which is
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: just the most I am. I hate, hate, hate hate
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: that it just got your hiker bikers and you got
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 1: your hunter fishers exactly well, and we have like different things.
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: But the notion to me that that would instill in
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: someone who likes to hike, the notion that they don't consume,
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 1: they don't have an impact act. That's terribly dangerous. That's dangerous.
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: Can you break that down a little bit, right? Yeah,
• 1:52:04
  Speaker 1: first you better explain consumptive and non So traditionally it's
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: like we have non consumptive and consumptive users and hunters
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 1: and anglers are in Lumpton this consumptive mushroom pickers. No
• 1:52:16
  Speaker 1: one ever talks about mushroom picks. Right. The foragers, they're
• 1:52:19
  Speaker 1: consumptive right there. There's they're they're supposedly killing or taking
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: a piece of the resource with them while they're out there. Now,
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: if you're rockhound spencer, you're consumptive. He's not consuming those rocks.
• 1:52:31
  Speaker 1: So like a detainer, it's this notion that someone is
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: taking from and or having a greater impact. That's what
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: it's meant to be. So well, that's what it's cut. Yeah,
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: consumptive absolutely, Like I always thought there was like a
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 1: little negative thing there, but I couldn't figure out what
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: it was. And then they're supposedly Supposedly, the non consumptive
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: is someone who is just simply out leaving no trace,
• 1:52:57
  Speaker 1: walking on a trail for you know, yeah, like like, oh,
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 1: I'm on the landscape, but I'm causing no disruption. I'm
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: not having an impact on anything. Well, that is complete
• 1:53:07
  Speaker 1: and utter horseshit. Um. Everybody is having an impact of
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 1: some level, whether you're motorized, non motorized, like you name it.
• 1:53:14
  Speaker 1: Everybody plays apart. And that is something where I don't
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: like people, and I never tolerated it. If someone wanted
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 1: to use those I said, Nope, not allowed to use
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 1: those words. We're all having an impact. You just need
• 1:53:24
  Speaker 1: to start understanding what kind of an impact you have.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 1: The other the other week, we discussed this this these
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 1: guidelines that came out, and it was that what does
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: someone had done some research on it. What distance do
• 1:53:33
  Speaker 1: you impact wildlife? So I listened, I was catching up
• 1:53:36
  Speaker 1: and I was listening and fifty yards on rodents, fifty
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 1: yards on chipmunkster likes on you know. And that's the
• 1:53:43
  Speaker 1: thing is like people think that they're not having an impact,
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 1: and so that's something too Like, Um, I just feel
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 1: like the outdoor recreation economy and the people that are
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 1: in the outdoor recreation economy like we're talking. The reason
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: we're talking about it in an economic sense and the
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 1: reason we have now a percentage of the g d
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: P and we understand how many tax dollars are going
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: to this, we understand how many jobs are related. The
• 1:54:03
  Speaker 1: reason we need to do that is because we need
• 1:54:05
  Speaker 1: to speak the same language that all the other lawmakers,
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: all the other policymakers are listening to. Because every other
• 1:54:12
  Speaker 1: segment of industry, whether it's you know, like mining industry
• 1:54:15
  Speaker 1: or you name it, they talk about jobs, tax dollars,
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: like what are we contributing? They're able to do it
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 1: in really concrete terms. But I would imagine wouldn't like
• 1:54:25
  Speaker 1: a lot of these outdoor recreation companies would not want
• 1:54:29
  Speaker 1: to be categorized they were like, they wouldn't want to
• 1:54:33
  Speaker 1: be categorized as consumptive, say that the mountain biking industry,
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: skiing and well, consumptive, but contributing. That's the thing is
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: what we're trying to do, is we're trying to calculate
• 1:54:42
  Speaker 1: the contribution of to the economy because that's what everybody
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 1: else is beating their chest about, what do I contribute?
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: So It's like, okay, what you mean you get priority
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 1: because you're touting these numbers. Well, now, the outdoor recreation
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: industry has these numbers. And so when you go to
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: a county commissioner, when you go your state legislature. That's
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 1: why I put together, you know, a state legist, you know,
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: a package on what does the auto recreation of mean
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: in Montana? Or when you go on a national level,
• 1:55:08
  Speaker 1: it's like no, no, you want to talk about jobs.
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 1: You want to talk about tax dollars. Oh, I'll show
• 1:55:11
  Speaker 1: you numbers and I'll show you bigger numbers in employment
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 1: because there's so many people. And that's the thing about
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: the recreation economy is it's not eleven conglomerates right, like
• 1:55:23
  Speaker 1: that hold all of the pie and there's you know there,
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: there's eleven entities are pulling all the strings and calling
• 1:55:29
  Speaker 1: all the shots. This is I mean huge numbers of people,
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: like vast numbers of people. Seven seven to ten of
• 1:55:40
  Speaker 1: Montanans are employed because of outdorecreation. Like that's a huge percentage.
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 1: It's to go up and it's only going up. There's
• 1:55:48
  Speaker 1: four hundred fishing guides in Gallatin County. How many mountain
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: biking guides are there or jobs in mountain biking. I
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: mean there are some. It's growing, I mean, but everything
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 1: plays its part. And that's retail. Oh, that's you know,
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: that's that's gear and goods, and like that's what I
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 1: want to look at the big number, you know when
• 1:56:05
  Speaker 1: you see like it's X billion dollar economy and you
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: look at it. And I used to be and I'd
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 1: see things rolled in there that I would feel are
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 1: almost anthema, you know too, what I like like for instance,
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: and I shouldn't say this now because we now have
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 1: a camper trailer. The man, we've got three little kids,
• 1:56:28
  Speaker 1: just hard to get everything that is where it's at
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 1: with kids. A camper is where food is in it,
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: the beds, the sleeping bags are in it. Throw bodies
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: in the truck, and marshmallows are in it. It's like
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: it's just and then when you're done, you throw all
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 1: that stuff back inside there and drive away, and then
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 1: you spend the whole week digging through it and stop
• 1:56:43
  Speaker 1: feeling bad about a long time. I'm saying I'm gonna
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: dog on big window bagos, but I want to clarify
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: that I'm dogging out myself when I look at the
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: numbers like nationally, I look and I'm like, man, they're
• 1:56:55
  Speaker 1: throwing stuff in there that doesn't belong in there. But
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 1: let me finish because I'm like that, like that is
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 1: an outdoorrect that's I'm what that is staying in It's
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 1: just you. Your sliver aboutdorecreation might be a slimmer. Yeah,
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: it's it's mean. It's mean spirited, but that was That's why.
• 1:57:17
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm trying to get at the next part
• 1:57:19
  Speaker 1: of this. I looked at him like, man, they're throwing
• 1:57:21
  Speaker 1: in some wild ship into those figures. But I'm like,
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 1: why not, because if you anything you can use to
• 1:57:26
  Speaker 1: combat the idea when someone says, like the national force
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: it's just sitting there doing nothing, it's nice to be
• 1:57:32
  Speaker 1: able to say, well, on the contrary, Um, x percent
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: of the economic activity that happens in no surrounding towns
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: is to thank for that. Ex percent of the jobs
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: that happen to those surrounding towns is to thank for
• 1:57:46
  Speaker 1: that real estate prices are tied to that tax base,
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 1: And go like, so, don't tell me he's doing nothing
• 1:57:52
  Speaker 1: because if you plucked it away, um, you would impact
• 1:57:58
  Speaker 1: the lives of like a hype sentages people live in
• 1:58:00
  Speaker 1: this area, like I like being armed with those and
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 1: all of those figures exist as much as I was
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: a little bit suspicious of when they started drawing them
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 1: up because people throw around some crazy numbers. Well, and
• 1:58:10
  Speaker 1: that's the thing we were just like so the evolving
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: economy of the West, right, So we were used to
• 1:58:14
  Speaker 1: talk looking at national forests as um timber producing, right,
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: And that's an easy like you're going in, you're cutting
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 1: a stand of timber, you have board feet, you're doing
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: the calculation. There's the money sitting right there in a
• 1:58:25
  Speaker 1: tidy pile getting piled onto a truck. Very easy to calculate.
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: And then you can also do the then the extrapolation
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 1: out into the communities and what kind of a recirculation
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 1: where you have. But with recreation it's different, right, It's
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: it's you're not just loading things on a truck, and
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 1: it's different to comprehend. But the four like USD a
• 1:58:42
  Speaker 1: forest service, Like they have economists that that's what they do.
• 1:58:45
  Speaker 1: You can go in and you can actually search and
• 1:58:47
  Speaker 1: find out like what is the recreation economic impact for
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: such and such a forest on a community, And they'll
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 1: extrapolate it out in their own way. Um so yeah, yeah,
• 1:58:56
  Speaker 1: and we're way past hunters and anglers being like but
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: and here's it's just there for It's like, but this
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 1: is where I think hunters and anglers need to So
• 1:59:03
  Speaker 1: I talk about infrastructure, like the infrastructure that supports the
• 1:59:06
  Speaker 1: derecreation economy, and so like every segment of the economy
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: has like this unique like what's the unique infrastructure that
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 1: that defines it or supports it? Right, It's not just
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 1: the roads that go to the parking lots that go
• 1:59:16
  Speaker 1: to the trailheads that go to the trails. It's also
• 1:59:20
  Speaker 1: open space, it's habitat, it's aquatic habitat, it's terrestrial habitat,
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 1: it's viewsheds. Like though that's infrastructure, just like a bridge
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 1: might be important to a certain sector, Like that's the
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: infrastructure right well, by and large, Like who and what
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: has paid for the infrastructure that the entire recreation economy
• 1:59:37
  Speaker 1: now sits on. It's hunters and anglers like that have
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 1: like built the foundation that that it's writing on, right,
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: and the care of wildlife, the maintenance of row el life,
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: and that it just is this then the segue of
• 1:59:47
  Speaker 1: like oh my gosh, and there's so many more users,
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: and how are the users helping pay for it? And
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 1: and there's no silver bullet by any means, but you know,
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: like passing habitat Montana weed money is like one little
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 1: piece of the pie to helping support that it's getting
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 1: to be almost a trillion dollar. Yeah, oh for sure.
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 1: So seven they figured, uh, seven eight, but this is
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 1: for the country seven eight billion and economic output. This
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: is the outdoor industry numbers billion economic output two per
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: one two like you said, two point one percent of
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 1: US g d P five point two million jobs. And
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 1: it's domestic that doesn't count the import of gear, right,
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: Like this is like gross output. They're they're geting, they're
• 2:00:35
  Speaker 1: rolling in Okay, they're rolling in boating, fishing, r ving, hunting, shooting. Oh,
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 1: even trapping made the list. Motorcycling, trapping. There's no dude,
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 1: not that me buying uh not me buying m B
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 1: seven fifties. Uh, motorcycling, a TV and equestrian sports mm hmm. Yeah.
• 2:00:58
  Speaker 1: It's it's huge, it's big and and so but and
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: that's where when I was in the office and you
• 2:01:02
  Speaker 1: talk about this a huge umbrella like hunting and angling
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: has been a very very very important piece to this
• 2:01:10
  Speaker 1: puzzle and I really want to make sure that it
• 2:01:13
  Speaker 1: continues to be very relevant. And uh, like you're just
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 1: a little tiny snapshot, right. I talked about like the
• 2:01:19
  Speaker 1: white Fish trail system and Whitefish. Um, this amazing you
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: know collaboration between private timberland and state land and federal
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: land and private land like to put this trail system together.
• 2:01:31
  Speaker 1: And the timberland is a block management piece in Montana
• 2:01:34
  Speaker 1: and block management. I'm sure you talked about block management
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 1: all the time, but it's people enroller land and for
• 2:01:38
  Speaker 1: access for hunting and um, but you know, it was
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: very important to maintain Like if you had just anybody
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 1: going in there, they'll be like, yeah, we we have
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: a trail system going through there, so there needs to
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: be no more hunting because that's what's happening right, Like
• 2:01:51
  Speaker 1: it's but that's not the case like that, you know,
• 2:01:53
  Speaker 1: everyone made sure that like no hunting is a traditional
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 1: use here, Like we are all sharing the space. We
• 2:01:58
  Speaker 1: all need to be doing these things together, so we
• 2:02:01
  Speaker 1: do need to keep hunting in these areas. Let's just
• 2:02:03
  Speaker 1: make sure we're doing it in a safe way. So um,
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: you know, if there's not a voice that's constantly talking
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 1: about the heritage of hunting and angling. Um, I'm it's
• 2:02:11
  Speaker 1: very concerning, you know, and we often we often times
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: are talking in this like inslary bubble like hunting an angling,
• 2:02:18
  Speaker 1: like we're king like you know, no man, not even
• 2:02:21
  Speaker 1: kinda And um, so there's a lot there's a lot
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: of interests out there, and so that's why it's really
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 1: important to stay um in the mix and and understand
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: like everyone else's perspective and where they're coming out of from.
• 2:02:33
  Speaker 1: But do you feel that that's the case, and like
• 2:02:35
  Speaker 1: for everyone in this room, right like knocked on folks
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 1: who you know motorbike and make noise and right or
• 2:02:48
  Speaker 1: like you know, even you're knocking on Yannie for skiing
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: and liked be the last one trick pony on the planet.
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 1: We hunt and we fished, and that is it. Back
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: you're not a true outdoorsment. That doesn't mean you're bad.
• 2:03:02
  Speaker 1: I prefer it. I wish that everyone. I wish to
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: everyone the ice fish scheme instead. I don't, but I
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 1: don't think that they're not true outdoorsman. No. But okay,
• 2:03:15
  Speaker 1: so here here's the where I'm going with the question, like,
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: because so much hunting angling money goes into supporting the outdoors,
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 1: it seems better in my mind that everyone's like, we
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: all do this. Yeah, but when you're discussing the idea
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 1: of hunters and anglers and other outdoor users, there's a
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 1: there's an important distinction here. Um. I think that hunters
• 2:03:46
  Speaker 1: and anglers have developed an elevated sense of importance, perhaps
• 2:03:52
  Speaker 1: even a supremacy when it comes to discussing sort of
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 1: like their share of the pie on public lands or
• 2:03:59
  Speaker 1: outdoor recreation or however you want to define what we're
• 2:04:02
  Speaker 1: talking about, because they have historically had such an important
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 1: funding role. Correct. So a lot of the land like management,
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 1: state management of wildlife. Okay, certain land management agencies um
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 1: having issues having to do with access, wildlife mitigation, disease
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: research on down the line were funded by people who
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: bought hunting and fishing licenses. So they felt like, naturally,
• 2:04:32
  Speaker 1: we need to have a real seat at the table
• 2:04:35
  Speaker 1: here because we're paying for a lot of this and
• 2:04:40
  Speaker 1: other user groups don't have that. Other user groups don't
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 1: have that legitimacy. Yeah. I refer to it as an infantile.
• 2:04:49
  Speaker 1: It's infant Uh. The new it's so new users Like
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: there's hunting and angling, right, and like this this evolution
• 2:04:55
  Speaker 1: and now there's you know, like phishing access sites. The
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 1: stupidest name ever. It's a water recreation site and on Hannah, right,
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: but fishing dollars that paid for him. And now you
• 2:05:02
  Speaker 1: look at the reality of like how many people that
• 2:05:04
  Speaker 1: use those fishing access sites are actually fishing, fewer than
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 1: the recreation user that never paid a dime for him.
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 1: I loved one recently, though I can't remember where I
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: saw it. If you held a fishing license, you didn't
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 1: need to pay the fee, yeah, because they're like we
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 1: already hit you when you bought your fishing license. So
• 2:05:19
  Speaker 1: and that's and that's different states are doing different things
• 2:05:21
  Speaker 1: to what when people show up at those fishing access
• 2:05:23
  Speaker 1: sites and they're launching a kayak and not fishing, they
• 2:05:27
  Speaker 1: should be kissing fishermen or they should be required to
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: buy a fishing license. And these are all things that
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: have been proposed. These are state funding mechanisms, and you
• 2:05:34
  Speaker 1: need legislative you know, follow through to establish all these mechanisms.
• 2:05:37
  Speaker 1: And so it's it's discussed like like explained like what
• 2:05:41
  Speaker 1: people say when because I think you're gonna get into this,
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 1: broty is like the backpack tax, and no one knows
• 2:05:45
  Speaker 1: what it means. But what's it getting at. Well that
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: you're that you would create the same kind of funding
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: through an excise tax on camping gear or um campers
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: or like mountain bikes, and so you know, then they're
• 2:06:01
  Speaker 1: contributing in the same way hunters and anglers are, which
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 1: initially as like yeah, man, like they should be paying
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: two and they probably should. But if they do, then
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 1: they want to sit at the table. Yeah I would
• 2:06:17
  Speaker 1: if I could have it my way out, have them
• 2:06:19
  Speaker 1: not pay and not be at the table. Well, they're
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: at the table and they're not. So there's a situation here. Well,
• 2:06:27
  Speaker 1: and here's the thing. Okay, so you guys are referring
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 1: to like paying so like the it's licensed dollars, it's
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: all of that, but it's also then pr DJ dollars
• 2:06:34
  Speaker 1: you know that have so like all of that, all
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: of this explain that real quick. It's over mentioned. But
• 2:06:41
  Speaker 1: when you buy, uh, if you go buy a pocket pistol, okay,
• 2:06:46
  Speaker 1: you buy a pocket pistol for seven hundred bucks for
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 1: personal self defense whatever whatever you buy, like, you go,
• 2:06:54
  Speaker 1: you go buy a personal self defense uh compact nine millimeter.
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 1: Of that money funds wildlife. It's ten percent of wholesale
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 1: but close and the bullets for it. But not reloading
• 2:07:08
  Speaker 1: supplies UM, not optics, UM, you know, like archery equipment,
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 1: fishing equipment, but chunks and pieces. But anyway, so voting
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: equipment that doesn't boat gas from when you buy gas me, Marina,
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: there's no equivalent of that. There's no equivalent of that.
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 1: When you buy a set of skis, is that a
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 1: back country touring skis? There's no equivalent correct, And that's
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 1: and that was just you know, like hunters and anglers
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: UM started funding all of this, and you know, maybe
• 2:07:38
  Speaker 1: not the average hunter and angler, but but we started
• 2:07:41
  Speaker 1: funding this out of crisis, crisis, like we're at the bottom,
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 1: like we're like we are losing everything. So then now
• 2:07:51
  Speaker 1: we have this history of fighting to get it back
• 2:07:53
  Speaker 1: and investing to get it back. Well, these other recreation
• 2:07:57
  Speaker 1: you know opportunities, they have never been through crisis, they've
• 2:08:01
  Speaker 1: never lost anything. They're just getting going. Yeah, there's no
• 2:08:05
  Speaker 1: but but as but as a result, like if now
• 2:08:08
  Speaker 1: it's just like a bunch of like recreation pissing match, right,
• 2:08:11
  Speaker 1: it's just like, yeah, well this trail is my trail.
• 2:08:13
  Speaker 1: I don't want you on my trail. And you know
• 2:08:15
  Speaker 1: it's like no, your stuff doesn't belong here. And it's
• 2:08:17
  Speaker 1: like wow, everybody, if you don't back it up to
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 1: like thirty feet and look at like the real core
• 2:08:23
  Speaker 1: of like what is enabling us to do all of this,
• 2:08:27
  Speaker 1: and if we don't work together, you know, like on
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 1: public lands on a on a larger scale, will all
• 2:08:32
  Speaker 1: lose everything. But it goes back to that consumptive versus
• 2:08:35
  Speaker 1: non consumptive because if they're quote not having an impact,
• 2:08:39
  Speaker 1: which is why it was very important when I was
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 1: in office. There is a twenty year old um document
• 2:08:45
  Speaker 1: that was done by the Montana Wildlife Society twenty years
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 1: ago and it's the Impacts of Recreation on Rocky Mountain
• 2:08:52
  Speaker 1: Wildlife and it hasn't been updated for twenty years and
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 1: so you can go and look at it. And so
• 2:08:57
  Speaker 1: I spent a lot of time when I was in
• 2:08:58
  Speaker 1: office like this is really important, Like we need to
• 2:09:00
  Speaker 1: be able to give our land managers the tools and
• 2:09:02
  Speaker 1: the scientific knowledge so that they can resolve disputes. And
• 2:09:06
  Speaker 1: then we can also tell everybody like look, no, you're
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 1: having an impact, like you're pushing animals around more than
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 1: a hunter would push animals around because of what you're
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: doing in your actions. UM. And so that's why that
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 1: was a really really important piece. That is, you know,
• 2:09:20
  Speaker 1: go is the work is going forward, their updating the document, UM,
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 1: we're finding funding for it. So it was really important
• 2:09:26
  Speaker 1: to get that done. It seemed like most of the
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 1: states you said before they have an office about door
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 1: wreck were like in the Rocky mountains. Does it make
• 2:09:33
  Speaker 1: sense for every state to have it, like Delaware in
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: Indiana or so, it's not a Rocky Mountain thing the
• 2:09:40
  Speaker 1: first but we've got oh my god, we've got like
• 2:09:42
  Speaker 1: three in the Midwest, We've got UM, We've got Vermont.
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 1: Sorry it's been a long time since Ratley's off. We've
• 2:09:48
  Speaker 1: got Vermont, North Carolina. Like, it's kind of all over
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 1: the place. It makes sense for every state, Oh, absolutely so.
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 1: But it's office about the recreation right there. It's the
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 1: outdoor recreation economy, which is really like to see and understand.
• 2:09:59
  Speaker 1: In the asked iteration of the UM national report that
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 1: came out for g d p UM, it had these
• 2:10:06
  Speaker 1: great infographics because you have experiential expenditures around outdorecreation, and
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 1: then you have the manufacturing expenditures around outdore creation. And
• 2:10:16
  Speaker 1: so you see states like like Florida and Illinois where
• 2:10:20
  Speaker 1: in every camper on the planet's manufacturing I think it's
• 2:10:22
  Speaker 1: in Illinois. Um, but you see these like hot red
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 1: states that are making all this money off of manufacturing
• 2:10:28
  Speaker 1: the stuff. And then you've got these hot red states
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 1: that are making all this money off of people using
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 1: that stuff and experiencing the outdoors. And so you have
• 2:10:37
  Speaker 1: you have to know, like none of these states, like
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 1: these guys wouldn't be making money and manufacturing if they
• 2:10:42
  Speaker 1: didn't have a place to go, and if we didn't
• 2:10:44
  Speaker 1: have the place to go. You know, like it's this
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 1: symbiotic relationship between the differing you know, demographic of the
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 1: United States and are differing economies within states that intrastates
• 2:10:55
  Speaker 1: stuff makes you think that it needs that we need
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 1: a Secretary of Hey, it's it's young. We could see
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 1: this first Secretary Hunting and Fishing, but it has Secretary
• 2:11:07
  Speaker 1: of Outdoor Secretary of Hunting and Fishing. Then I actually
• 2:11:11
  Speaker 1: actually did find the history of that Federal Bureau of
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 1: Outdoor Recreation, which was founded in nineteen sixty three by
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 1: a secretarial order. It was subsumed into a new agency
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 1: called the Heritage Conservation and Recreation Service in nineteen seventy seven,
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 1: which was then subsumed by the National It's interesting. Yeah, yeah,
• 2:11:34
  Speaker 1: so we used to have one. Now we don't. Can
• 2:11:36
  Speaker 1: let me hear you up to last questions? Um, they're
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 1: big ones all. What so you're you now currently? You're
• 2:11:44
  Speaker 1: like fundraising for a nonprofit Background and Anglers. What do
• 2:11:50
  Speaker 1: you guys, Let's say you had all this money, get
• 2:11:52
  Speaker 1: all this money, what are the top priorities did you
• 2:11:55
  Speaker 1: like to spend it on? So the heritage of hunting
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 1: and angling. Um. And then it's it's the voice of
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 1: wild public land, water and wildlife and spending the money.
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 1: And that's the cool part. B h A. Back and
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 1: Hunters and Anglers. And by the way, we're having our
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 1: tenth rendezvous this year and you're the speaker at the
• 2:12:12
  Speaker 1: first rendezvous at the same space we're having it this year.
• 2:12:16
  Speaker 1: It feels like about three people there, I think a
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 1: hundred a hundred people. Yeah, super small. Um. But so
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 1: this is what I've always found that is remarkable about
• 2:12:25
  Speaker 1: back country hunters and anglers, back English is about its
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 1: members like it is its members. This is people. These
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 1: are hunters and anglers that give enough of a crap
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 1: to be involved, to be active, to support what they
• 2:12:42
  Speaker 1: love and believe in. Right, and so b h as
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 1: an organization, we're simply finding resources to elevate their work,
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 1: to help them do their work, to provide support because
• 2:12:56
  Speaker 1: for as much as we're definitely used to UM you know,
• 2:12:59
  Speaker 1: like your CPS awesome organization, and it's an organization of organizations,
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 1: and it's you know, taking the collective voice you know
• 2:13:06
  Speaker 1: of of organizations and talking on the national level. And
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 1: b h A does work on the national level, but
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 1: you you need that, you need organizations to have these
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 1: formalized conversations with like policymakers and you know, involved with
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 1: legislative actions. But what really moves the mark is an
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 1: individual voice. And you know that is what b h
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 1: A members do. It's an individual voice. It's that I
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 1: am an individual and I believe in this and all
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 1: of these people believe in this too, and so it's
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 1: this amazing, awesome symbiotic relationship like these are These are
• 2:13:39
  Speaker 1: the people on the ground getting the work done. Like
• 2:13:41
  Speaker 1: if you ever think that you're a badass hunter angler.
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 1: Just go visit with the average b h A member
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 1: and you're just like, I need to up my game.
• 2:13:50
  Speaker 1: You know. It's just and but the humblest, most amazing,
• 2:13:53
  Speaker 1: you know, group of people and diverse. I mean, like
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 1: our demographic is remarkable. There's you know, it's a third Democrat,
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 1: a third Republic and a third independent. Membership is forty
• 2:14:03
  Speaker 1: five and under UM and so it's you know, it's
• 2:14:05
  Speaker 1: people that are not It's so much of conservation work
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 1: is done in the tangible, like let's go and put
• 2:14:13
  Speaker 1: this fence up, because I can act and I can
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 1: do it, and I can see it and I saw
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 1: the process start and I saw it finish. And so
• 2:14:22
  Speaker 1: much work that b h A members do is the hard, long, grueling,
• 2:14:28
  Speaker 1: thankless schlog of working on forest plans, of working in
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 1: legislative sessions, and so much of the work that's done
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 1: it's not tangible instantaneously. It's it's this, it's a long haul,
• 2:14:42
  Speaker 1: and it's it's the really hard work that requires patients
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 1: and perseverance. UM. So I couldn't be happier to be
• 2:14:49
  Speaker 1: where I am. And UM, every career move I've made
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 1: through my life It moves me one step closer to
• 2:14:56
  Speaker 1: expelling every ounce of my energy only working on the
• 2:14:59
  Speaker 1: stuff that I really really give a shit about, and
• 2:15:02
  Speaker 1: that's my family and my life and you know public
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 1: lands in these spaces that has sculpted in my life.
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 1: So the more I can do to support pH A
• 2:15:09
  Speaker 1: members and the work that they do, happier, I am. Uh.
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 1: The last one touches on something you just brought up,
• 2:15:14
  Speaker 1: which is your family. A few years ago, I saw
• 2:15:17
  Speaker 1: you give a talk and you were kind of laying
• 2:15:19
  Speaker 1: out the it was a slide show presentation. We were
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 1: were a story we were storytellers. It's really funny, and
• 2:15:25
  Speaker 1: you were laying out the storyteller this year like how
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 1: hard it is and just like messy and inconvenient to
• 2:15:33
  Speaker 1: raise kids in the outdoors. Just pull your hair out right,
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 1: what is my life become? Yeah? So what um? And
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 1: I know it's really important to you that you do that,
• 2:15:45
  Speaker 1: that you raise your boys outside. What do you think
• 2:15:49
  Speaker 1: they'll get out of it? Because the other day we
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 1: had on UM we had on a spearfisher woman really
• 2:15:57
  Speaker 1: identify with Kimmy a lot. And what I said, we're
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 1: kind of like laying out like how much her dad,
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 1: how much time her dad dedicated to bring in her spearfish,
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 1: and and she kind of like dispelled any romantic notions.
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 1: It was that he was going and he had to
• 2:16:10
  Speaker 1: watch me. Therefore I had to go. I don't think
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 1: there's anything else going on there, and it's landed or
• 2:16:18
  Speaker 1: where she is. But just like a different version where um,
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 1: I am kind of split. I guess like I'm going,
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 1: which means you're going, but also I really want you
• 2:16:29
  Speaker 1: to go. I'm in the same boat as you talk
• 2:16:32
  Speaker 1: about a little bit like what you want them to
• 2:16:34
  Speaker 1: get out of it or why it's important to you. Yeah.
• 2:16:36
  Speaker 1: And I actually listened to that one with Kimmy and
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 1: when she was talking about her relationship with her dad
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 1: and her upbringing with her dad, I was like, oh
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 1: my gosh, like I really identified with like everything she said.
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 1: I remember my dad. I remember waking up in the
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 1: middle of rain storms, sleeping on the top of gear
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 1: piles in the back of rafts from overnight trips, and
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 1: my dad is lining the boat through a precarious rapid.
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 1: I'm just sleep on the boat and he's like, you're
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 1: a good babe, just go back to sleep, right, And
• 2:17:04
  Speaker 1: I've got one of those horse collar, you know, life
• 2:17:06
  Speaker 1: jackets on, and you know, it was like that was
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 1: his job, and I just got to go with him.
• 2:17:09
  Speaker 1: Um yeah, with my kids. And I'm very very front
• 2:17:12
  Speaker 1: with him because now I have a fourteen year old,
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 1: and um, teenagers are the worst, but I love them
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 1: in the same notion. But he's very much flexing his
• 2:17:18
  Speaker 1: independent muscles, and he has had the most idyllic childhood,
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 1: growing up in just the most amazing wild places, doing
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 1: remarkable things, and he's just like, yeah, it's just so
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 1: my jam. I'm just I mean, if I have my pick,
• 2:17:31
  Speaker 1: I'm just not really and I just want to go hunt.
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 1: I just don't want to go fish. I don't want
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 1: to go camp, Like, I don't want to do that.
• 2:17:36
  Speaker 1: I'm not really into that. And I tell him over
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 1: and over again, I say, okay, yep, but I have
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 1: one that's gone the other way. So with that guy,
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 1: I just tell him, I was like, look, you are
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 1: going to have to go do some of this stuff
• 2:17:46
  Speaker 1: with me, but I am going to compromise with you.
• 2:17:48
  Speaker 1: But what's really important to me is that if some
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 1: day you decide that it's something you want to do,
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 1: you have a skill set to fall back on, like
• 2:17:56
  Speaker 1: you can. And I told him, I'm like, someday you're
• 2:17:58
  Speaker 1: going to meet the super hot chick and she is
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 1: going to think that, like, hunters are super cool, and
• 2:18:05
  Speaker 1: you're probably gonna start hunting again. You know. It's just
• 2:18:07
  Speaker 1: like I want you. I want to know that you
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 1: have the skills. You can hunt if you want, you
• 2:18:12
  Speaker 1: can fish if you want, you can ski if you want.
• 2:18:14
  Speaker 1: If it's not something that's your top priority, okay, that's fine.
• 2:18:17
  Speaker 1: But then my twelve year old is just like this
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: just rabid outdoor kid. Like he he loves passionate about skiing,
• 2:18:24
  Speaker 1: he's passionate about um mountain biking, but he loves hunting. Um,
• 2:18:29
  Speaker 1: he loves to go out fishing. He you know, he's
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 1: getting his life membership from h A as a gift
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 1: for me, and he's pissed that there's not a fly
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 1: rod incentive. So I had to buy him his own.
• 2:18:39
  Speaker 1: He got his own Winston this a couple of weeks ago.
• 2:18:42
  Speaker 1: Used to I know, but that's not one of the
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 1: perks at the moment. Yeah, exactly. And so he was
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 1: just like, well I wanted the fly rod. I'm like, oh,
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 1: I didn't get it for you soon enough anyway, So um.
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 1: But yeah. He on the other hand, is like he's
• 2:18:53
  Speaker 1: already been like so when he was like eight, He's like, so,
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 1: I'm going to go to college in Bozeman because I
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 1: can go for snow science and I can be a
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 1: fishing guide in the summer and then I can be
• 2:19:03
  Speaker 1: ski patrol in the winter. I was just like, oh,
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 1: my kid, if I had figured out like you and
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, um, but I was like, I like where
• 2:19:10
  Speaker 1: your head's at, and like your heads at So yeah,
• 2:19:12
  Speaker 1: it's it's so it's just a compromise and yeah, it's
• 2:19:17
  Speaker 1: you know, when I was doing that presentation, it was
• 2:19:19
  Speaker 1: like going from a person outdoor in the outdoors to
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 1: a parent in the outdoors. It's like this complete rearrangement
• 2:19:26
  Speaker 1: of priorities in your head. And it's like I used to,
• 2:19:29
  Speaker 1: you know, go so hard over here and so fixated
• 2:19:31
  Speaker 1: and so focused, and now it's like more about the snacks,
• 2:19:35
  Speaker 1: and you know, like it's just it just becomes different.
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 1: But it comes full circle too. When they were little,
• 2:19:40
  Speaker 1: did you find that it was just so hard to
• 2:19:43
  Speaker 1: get everybody out the door? Um? Yeah, and so much preparation,
• 2:19:48
  Speaker 1: like so much preparation, Like you're like like the bags
• 2:19:51
  Speaker 1: of the gear and the getting and the like what
• 2:19:53
  Speaker 1: did I forget? And it's so much more work, and
• 2:19:55
  Speaker 1: you understand why some people, if they're not really dedicated
• 2:19:58
  Speaker 1: to it, it's just like, let's let it go by
• 2:19:59
  Speaker 1: the way side. Too much work. Boots were just here,
• 2:20:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah you had a jacket on exactly. So yeah, it's
• 2:20:10
  Speaker 1: it's pretty wild, but it's it's totally worth it. I
• 2:20:13
  Speaker 1: think it's worth every every minute of it. Um, it's fun.
• 2:20:17
  Speaker 1: You know, like last then one day you catch tea
• 2:20:18
  Speaker 1: turtles having sex. Yeah exactly, but yeah, you can be
• 2:20:21
  Speaker 1: like that. Last summer I took my kids, we did
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 1: the Main Salmon River in Idaho, and so I, you know,
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 1: my kids thought they had seen whitewater and they had
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 1: never seen Idaho white water. And so I wrote them
• 2:20:33
  Speaker 1: down the main Salmon and even the one that even
• 2:20:35
  Speaker 1: the one that doesn't want to go, yeah, and the
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 1: one that's like, well, I don't really want to go,
• 2:20:38
  Speaker 1: but if I'm gonna go, And then you know, you
• 2:20:40
  Speaker 1: get him out there and he's just like this is
• 2:20:42
  Speaker 1: a sick trip. He you know, he just he loved. Yes,
• 2:20:45
  Speaker 1: it wasn't that bad. Wasn't that The beaches are amazing?
• 2:20:48
  Speaker 1: You know, so it all it all works out. Yeah,
• 2:20:53
  Speaker 1: fourteen and twelve, fourteen and twelve dread. Yeah, I see
• 2:20:57
  Speaker 1: I still have where everybody likes me, and I know
• 2:21:02
  Speaker 1: that that's going to go away. Oh is it? Yes?
• 2:21:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah it does. And then I think, what did we
• 2:21:08
  Speaker 1: When did we all start liking our parents? Again? It's
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 1: not that I didn't like my parents, but you're like,
• 2:21:14
  Speaker 1: died before that happened. It was it was like postmortem
• 2:21:18
  Speaker 1: for me. He died in ten years later. I'm like, yeah,
• 2:21:20
  Speaker 1: kind of he is getting at Yeah, but you know,
• 2:21:24
  Speaker 1: and I look at it like my grandfather he used
• 2:21:25
  Speaker 1: to take me out fishing all the time too, and
• 2:21:27
  Speaker 1: you know, like we would you know, like I remember
• 2:21:29
  Speaker 1: like driving like two and a half hours to like
• 2:21:32
  Speaker 1: a fishing spot and then like we get all of
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 1: our stuff out and get the flow tubes out, and
• 2:21:35
  Speaker 1: I just looked at him. I was like, I was
• 2:21:37
  Speaker 1: like twelve. I was like I forgot my flippers, and
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 1: he was just like, okay, we'll pack it all up here,
• 2:21:43
  Speaker 1: we go home. You know, Just like it's just the
• 2:21:46
  Speaker 1: way it ghost. It all comes full circle. It's upsetting um,
• 2:21:52
  Speaker 1: but man, there's like magical moments because my little boy
• 2:21:56
  Speaker 1: just caught us first, like where he did the cast,
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 1: the hook up, the real end, no assistance, and he
• 2:22:04
  Speaker 1: was just ecstatic. It's amazing. That's a big moment. That's
• 2:22:08
  Speaker 1: to say, come to his laugh is the best man
• 2:22:14
  Speaker 1: when he gets going. Well, like my win, my one
• 2:22:16
  Speaker 1: win this winter was I loved ice fish. I love
• 2:22:19
  Speaker 1: ice fishing, and I think it's like the best kid
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 1: thing too. So drag the fourteen year old old fourteen
• 2:22:25
  Speaker 1: year old out ice fishing and he's just like I
• 2:22:27
  Speaker 1: can't believe this, And I'm like, what we're doing in
• 2:22:28
  Speaker 1: the afternoon, We're on for the afternoon bite. It's all
• 2:22:30
  Speaker 1: gonna be good. I set up like whole camp chef
• 2:22:32
  Speaker 1: set up. I'm like cooking tacos and I'm just running
• 2:22:35
  Speaker 1: and like literally it's hot perch and like one boy
• 2:22:38
  Speaker 1: is like pulling it. I'm like doing a triangle like
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 1: fish off, you know, magat On down the whole, fish off,
• 2:22:44
  Speaker 1: megan On down the whole, flip a taco, run back over.
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 1: I'm just like doing this like circle in the hot chocolate,
• 2:22:49
  Speaker 1: and I like I'm doing my own thing, and I
• 2:22:51
  Speaker 1: hear my fourteen year old look at his his twelve
• 2:22:53
  Speaker 1: year old brother and was like, dude, this is really fun.
• 2:22:57
  Speaker 1: It's like I win, Like I won this winter. I won.
• 2:23:00
  Speaker 1: I won. That's great. It's a good mom. I'm working
• 2:23:05
  Speaker 1: on it, trying, trying hard. Well, hopefully someday you'll be
• 2:23:09
  Speaker 1: on your deathbed. They were like, you know, ma, thanks,
• 2:23:13
  Speaker 1: you know, yeah, thanks. Thanks. When you told me that
• 2:23:17
  Speaker 1: chick would really be into fly fishing schools, you were right,
• 2:23:19
  Speaker 1: she was. Rachel Schmidt, thank you very much for joining us.
• 2:23:24
  Speaker 1: I was gonna do that thing where I tell you
• 2:23:26
  Speaker 1: what how to for people, how to find you check
• 2:23:28
  Speaker 1: out b h A. Let me talking about it a lot.
• 2:23:30
  Speaker 1: Everybody is pretty involved and it's a good group of
• 2:23:32
  Speaker 1: people and you learn a lot of stuff and it's good.
• 2:23:36
  Speaker 1: But yeah, if you want to find me personally, um Instagram,
• 2:23:39
  Speaker 1: it's Montana Ray ray m t r a r A
• 2:23:41
  Speaker 1: or Rachel Schmidt Montana Ray ray m t r a
• 2:23:46
  Speaker 1: r A. Latest picture is a giant black drum. I
• 2:23:49
  Speaker 1: just caught in Louisiana. Very pumped about that. Yeah, well
• 2:23:53
  Speaker 1: check are you active on there? Do you put stuff
• 2:23:55
  Speaker 1: up on there? A lot? Yeah? Not as much as
• 2:23:58
  Speaker 1: some You don't live by it. No, no, what are
• 2:24:03
  Speaker 1: you eating by more pocket meat while you're packing a chaw?
• 2:24:10
  Speaker 1: All right, Rachel, Hey, thanks for happy, Thanks for joining
• 2:24:13
  Speaker 1: us sing, Thanks for bringing down all that stuff. That's
• 2:24:16
  Speaker 1: very helpful. Grybody, See you next time.