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Culture of Terror #8 Dr. James Mitchell · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:24
  Well, you have to wonder with all the death and destruction that uh the Middle East is going through and with Iran right now.
• 0:32
  You know, I I have to consider you know uh how many tiers of this regime they are.
• 0:36
  In other words, how deep does the indoctrination go?
• 0:39
  It goes all the way to the kids is the problem.
• 0:41
  And and how do you weed some of that stuff out?
• 0:44
  Uh, you know, the the thing is I I hear Trump always saying about negotiating, and then you see Vance goes all the way to Pakistan and then comes all the way back, of course, empty-handed.
• 0:54
  Uh, they refuse to uh uh let go of their dreams to have a nuclear weapon, and a whole lot more to that as well, by the way.
• 1:02
  Uh, but then you have to wonder uh, how do you negotiate with people like this?
• 1:06
  How do you?
• 1:07
  And how do you ever trust them when they can surely break the rules?
• 1:12
  So I mean, that's that's in in their marching orders that any agreement they sign, uh, any uh promise they make, uh, any commitment, it's not worth uh the paper it's written on.
• 1:23
  So uh it's I I just wonder if we're kidding ourselves at times or whether this is just uh for media consumption or for stupid people or what it is, I'm not really sure.
• 1:35
  Uh but uh anyways, let's bring on here.
• 1:37
  Um I'm thrilled to have in the house here, Dr.
• 1:39
  James Mitchell is here.
• 1:41
  And now you you've heard Jim before on uh viewpoint, you've probably heard him there many times.
• 1:48
  Uh this opportunity today gives us an opportunity to do a deep dive in some things uh that we wouldn't ordinarily be able to do.
• 1:55
  Um that that is to get into the psychology of this.
• 1:58
  And part of that reason is a couple things about Jim.
• 2:01
  Uh he is uh first of all, holds a PhD in clinical psychology, which I love uh and uh served 22 years in the U.S.
• 2:09
  Air Force uh and retired as a lieutenant colonel.
• 2:12
  Uh and uh he uh Dr.
• 2:14
  Mitchell was involved uh in the development of the CIA's enhanced interrogation uh program and that interrogated a lot of the high uh Al-Qaeda folks.
• 2:24
  You remember the moment that was, and he's testimony uh testified in front of Congress many times, so on and so forth.
• 2:29
  Uh so welcome to the broadcast, Dr.
• 2:31
  James Mitchell.
• 2:32
  We finally get to get you on the video here and uh on the project out loud.
• 2:37
  All right.
• 2:37
  So the Iranian regime sees the death and destruction that they've already endured.
• 2:43
  I mean, they see what's happening and throughout their country, okay, and yet they still don't agree to not produce these nuclear weapons.
• 2:52
  I think the question many people would ask is why do you think that is?
• 2:56
  I mean, they know that they probably gonna be next in line to be killed, uh, very likely, and yet there's still no hesitation at all in them.
• 3:07
  Why why is that?
• 3:09
  Well, I think one of the things that uh makes it difficult for us to understand is that we're looking at it with a Western mind.
• 3:18
  You know, it's just as you know, most people, if you killed 50 something uh leaders would be thinking, wow, I ought to get in line and cooperate or find something we can agree on, otherwise they're likely to whack me.
• 3:31
  But it's just as likely that uh because uh both the Shia and the Sunni believe that uh things are preordained, it's just as likely that some of them, especially the hardcore ones could believe that God or Allah has taken those people who were weaker than them out of the picture so that the more uh revolutionary folks could rise up and take their place so that people with a stronger desire to spread their version of Islam and bring about the end of days could be put in a place where they can deal with the great Satan instead of those people who like the other Ayatollahs uh that had been removed.
• 4:12
  So, based on what you're saying, if we just keep doing the same thing we're doing now, it never ends then.
• 4:20
  This cycle will never ever end.
• 4:22
  Well just continues.
• 4:23
  It ends when they run out of them.
• 4:25
  Will they run?
• 4:25
  How do they run out of them?
• 4:26
  When they they've got the kids, they've got them this high indoctrinated.
• 4:30
  It's the same.
• 4:31
  I I don't know that the that the kids that are this high, they may have been exposed to their to the Quran and to their interpretations of the Quran, but there is a hardcore um element there that uh believes that it's preordained that they're still going to be able to beat us because you have to think back, think the way they think, you know, they know that democracy and sharia law cannot coexist because uh Syria, especially Islam, it's not a religion, it's a way of life, and it includes governance, and we just screw ourselves when we think that we can impose democracy on them because the way they're supposed to be led is already preordained, written out in Allah's hand in the Quran, right?
• 5:21
  And they know that it's a battle that takes place in the hearts and the minds and the souls of Americans.
• 5:27
  They see us as militarily strong, but weak in moral resolve, and that we don't have the will to do what's necessary.
• 5:35
  So I think what they are probably thinking with with this uh again, I know I'm um jumping around a little bit, but there's a lot that I think I need to say in a relatively short period of time.
• 5:48
  And one of those things is that they don't view truces the way that we view truces.
• 5:53
  For them, a truce is the time that you take back, lick your wounds, rearm your people, reposition them, bring in more supplies, and then attack again when you're strong enough to attack again.
• 6:03
  And so when I when I heard that there was going to be a ceasefire to negotiate, what I thought was these guys are going to rearm themselves, they're gonna position themselves where they can do the most damage, they're gonna focus on the kind of leverage they can have, like at the Straits of Homoose, and they're gonna drag this out as long as they can, because what they hope is that the American public will turn against this because they know they cannot defeat us on the battlefield.
• 6:31
  So what they're wanting to use is our own sentiments and our own desire to have people like us in the world as a weapon against us.
• 6:39
  Okay.
• 6:40
  So with what you're saying, so based on the fact, as I started with here, that you know, you're seeing in the media constantly the drip dirt drip, and Trump is trying to get a deal, trying to he keep saying, in fact, he keeps talking about trying to get a deal as negotiating with them.
• 6:54
  Vance goes all the way to Pakistan with uh with with Krishner and uh and uh Whitkoff and uh also to try to get that deal.
• 7:03
  So I mean, is that just for the prosperity prosperity?
• 7:07
  What is that for?
• 7:07
  Is that just for what reason?
• 7:09
  You you can't get a deal with these people, can you?
• 7:11
  Well, it depends on what you mean by deal.
• 7:13
  What he's basically demanding is that they surrender.
• 7:16
  He calls it a deal, but if you give up your nukes, you give up your uh uh uh desire to have a lot of heavy influence in that organization.
• 7:25
  If you give up uh, you know, your your ICBMs, if you give up all of that stuff, right?
• 7:32
  You haven't made a deal.
• 7:33
  You've just surrendered, and they know that, right?
• 7:38
  Uh they know that.
• 7:39
  We and if you look at the way that our negotiators have has handled this, when it looked like they were unmovable, they didn't stay there and try to talk them into it.
• 7:48
  They made a uh an honest good faith effort to tell them where the red lines were, and when they refuse to uh concede those things, they refuse to give up the nukes, they refuse to give up their long-range missiles.
• 8:02
  They left.
• 8:03
  Okay.
• 8:04
  But but they already know they're gonna do that.
• 8:06
  They already know they're I believe before they even got out there, they knew there wasn't going to be a deal.
• 8:12
  You say that you mean the US folks.
• 8:15
  And Trump and company, I'm very confident that they I don't know if you disagree with that, but I don't think they ever thought they were going to get a deal.
• 8:23
  And my point I'm making here is a lot of times I think they're doing this for the world community for the consumption of the story, uh, that they have to do it.
• 8:33
  In other words, this is so odd and different from any other uh enemy we fight, Jim, that uh there's certain things you do in in these kinds of uh wars or situation, but this is not just any other war.
• 8:47
  These are jihadists.
• 8:48
  There's there's a difference, isn't there?
• 8:50
  Well, if they if they can they they believe that they don't have to win, they just have to survive long enough to reconstitute themselves.
• 8:58
  That's it.
• 8:58
  And I think what any rational uh US leader would do is use whatever chance they have to try to get them to surrender in a very peaceful way.
• 9:11
  And you you can I I mean, I don't know what's in their mind any more than anybody else does uh in the US government, but my thought would be they already knew that they were gonna have to close the ports in Iran.
• 9:24
  That was already on the table, and they wanted to, you know, not have them blowing up oils uh uh production sites with women and children forming human seals, you know, because that's the sort of thing those folks would do.
• 9:39
  So they they uh gave them a chance, and now they're implementing what they knew, as you said, they were probably likely going to, but they're grasping at any possibility of this people uh turning off the war.
• 9:56
  All right, bring it back to where we're in the conversation right now, but let's bring it.
• 10:00
  Back to when you were in the room with the uh the uh the detainees from the Al-Qaeda, and this is after 9-11.
• 10:09
  And and people if you're watching this or listening to this and you don't know this, I mean this is fascinating as hell.
• 10:15
  So you want to pay attention to this because Dr.
• 10:17
  Mitchell is really part of history and the way he um interrogated these people after 9-11 and what had transpired there.
• 10:26
  Uh, and so if you take this culture, I mean uh people don't understand, Jim, what this culture really is, what it's about, and and um the fact that they live to I think what's so different about this is they live it seems to me they live to die, like uh we we're the opposite of that.
• 10:48
  We we take out all the measures so that we we we don't we know we don't live to die, we live to live.
• 10:54
  There's a difference here.
• 10:55
  These people, they have no no problem with whatever, just dying on any particular Monday or Tuesday, uh doesn't matter to them.
• 11:04
  So when you were in the room with these, what are the what are some of the things uh if we take that mind?
• 11:09
  I'm talking about the mindset now.
• 11:10
  If you take that mindset that you encountered then and you take it to today's problems, explain what that mindset is like from then in even to now what we're dealing with.
• 11:20
  What is that mindset so people understand?
• 11:24
  Well, I think probably one way to address what you just asked me was to tell you one of the things KSM told me.
• 11:30
  I asked him one time, you know, when they captured you, you had an AK-47, uh, but you didn't shoot it.
• 11:37
  You didn't try to fight your way out of it, you put it down and surrendered.
• 11:41
  If if jihadis love death so much, how come you didn't, how come you didn't, you know, uh uh martyr yourself and uh go on to paradise?
• 11:52
  And he told me, he said, he said, uh Allah uses everyone according to the kinds of things he can get out of him.
• 12:00
  My job is not to die for Allah, my job is to get other people to die for Allah.
• 12:06
  So they make these little nuanced um uh differences in their mind uh when it comes to that sort of stuff.
• 12:14
  I mean, that there's a reason that the leaders of Hamas live in other countries instead of in that war zone.
• 12:21
  There's a reason that uh the uh uh leaders of a lot of these terrorists and their children, oddly enough, end up in America, in American universities, you know, living living the good life in our life where other people fight and die for a cause that they say that they um uh support.
• 12:41
  The difficulty for us is that we think that because they're here, they think like we think, right?
• 12:48
  But really, it's an entitlement.
• 12:50
  They feel entitled to get people to die in a cause that they support.
• 12:55
  And part of that stems from what uh I think KSM told me about the way it works.
• 13:02
  If you're a jihadi leader, you get you get partial credit uh when it goes to paradise for any terror attack that's done by somebody that you either sponsored or inspired, which is one of the reasons that uh so many Muslims who do who are not jihadists tithe to jihadi organizations is because you know, we would call it the VIG.
• 13:28
  They get a little big at the time that they get to paradise because they've used their money, they've used their position, they've used something uh to promote the cause of spreading Islam.
• 13:41
  So that's that's the way he views that.
• 13:44
  Um the individual one thing that we we've seen with respect to these more senior individuals is that they're often educated in the West.
• 13:54
  So they're pretty familiar with our universities, our universities think, and you know, our universities at this particular time are convincing people that America is a horrible, horrible uh place to be, and that there's never been a country as bad as America.
• 14:10
  Well, now send a couple of jihadis through there who not only have the Quran to make them think that they're entitled to hate anyone who doesn't worship Allah, uh, but have the university professors telling them that their view is accurate.
• 14:26
  And uh, and and of course we know uh that it's not, but uh they do a good job of it, don't they?
• 14:31
  You know, they surely do.
• 14:33
  Well, they they do things like um they define an offensive terror attack on a group that has never attacked them and wouldn't attack them as defensive jihad.
• 14:48
  Only time you're supposed to do an offensive jihad is if the caliph uh for all of the Muslims in the world demands it.
• 14:57
  So when so when you're dealing with Islam, there's no caliph.
• 15:03
  So you have to convince the people you're trying to get to die for your cause that it's a defensive jihad because you can do that anytime.
• 15:10
  So in their mind, they're doing these sort of things that uh uh where they try to recruit people to purify the land and get things ready uh for the end of days.
• 15:21
  And and with the Shia, that's a big deal.
• 15:24
  It's right the Sunni think it's gonna happen too, but they're not in such a great big hurry to uh create chaos and destruction in order to move it along.
• 15:34
  And and with that, you're talking about the difference so people know the difference of Iran and the difference of like a Saudi Arabia, right?
• 15:41
  Yes, it's a different Arabia's yeah, Saudi Arabia is mostly Sunni.
• 15:46
  Uh in fact, I would suspect it's probably all Sunni.
• 15:50
  Um uh Iran is mostly Shia.
• 15:54
  So mostly 12 are Shias.
• 15:57
  So several different versions of it.
• 15:59
  So they believe in ultimately at 30,000 feet, kind of the same thing.
• 16:05
  Is that correct?
• 16:06
  And they just go about it differently or what?
• 16:10
  That is correct.
• 16:11
  They believe that uh they believe that uh the Quran is the spoken word of Allah made whole, right in Arabic.
• 16:19
  So they don't change the Quran, but they do change a couple of interpretations to support their work.
• 16:24
  The biggest difference, the biggest conflict between them came about in about 654 or 658, somewhere in that time, I don't remember the exact time.
• 16:35
  Uh, when uh there was a group who felt that uh the caliph, whoever was in charge of all the Muslims in the world should be in a direct descendant and related to uh Muhammad.
• 16:49
  And there was another group who thought, no, it should be the person who was most qualified to leave the believers.
• 16:57
  Uh and and they had a big fight, and the Shia went off believing that they need to be a descendant of Ali, and the uh Sunni believes it's just the smartest, best prepared person at the time.
• 17:12
  And that produced a lot of conflict, two civil wars, in fact, in the 600s about this particular thing.
• 17:19
  Yeah.
• 17:20
  So current day where Iran is now uh aiming at a lot of the Gulf partners there, a lot of these countries through the Gulf states.
• 17:27
  Uh was you ultimately it was did you expect that or was you surprised by that?
• 17:33
  I wasn't surprised by that.
• 17:35
  You know, the reason I wasn't surprised by that is because what first off, Shia and Sunni are enemies.
• 17:41
  Shia sometimes kills Sunnis, Sunni sometimes kills Shia, you know.
• 17:46
  Uh and uh so it's not a surprise that they don't they have to hate us more than they hate things, but then they work together at other times, right?
• 17:53
  So the enemy of the enemy is my friend.
• 17:54
  That's kind of what we're talking about.
• 17:56
  But what they were trying to do, obviously, is attack these oral-producing states so that they would put pressure on our government to uh get Trump to back down and to leave, because that's been the um that's been the approach all along uh for years, for uh ever since the Vietnam War.
• 18:18
  We did not militarily lose the Vietnam War.
• 18:21
  We left the Vietnam War in the hearts and minds of the Americans who required that uh who demanded that we leave it.
• 18:27
  We didn't lose the Korean War.
• 18:29
  We lost the war in the hearts and minds of Americans.
• 18:32
  And and there's we that happened in uh uh Beirut when they blew up the marine barracks when Hasbala blew up the marine barracks.
• 18:41
  Uh Reagan just left, you know.
• 18:43
  It it happens all along.
• 18:45
  And so what they have come to expect is that Americans will talk tough, they got a lot of good fighters, they got a lot of cool equipment.
• 18:53
  But when it comes down to it, the weakness that Allah put into our government is the will of the people.
• 19:00
  And the will of the people can be uh changed if you attack their minds, you attack their hearts.
• 19:08
  Yeah, keep in mind uh all of the clamor that you see in the mainstream media about the 13 or so people who died so far in this uh this particular war, it's a tragedy.
• 19:20
  Uh, you know, I spent a lot of time in the military.
• 19:23
  Uh I'm not advocating that soldiers or airmen or anybody die.
• 19:27
  I just want to make clear.
• 19:29
  But we've been doing this for 40 days, and there's only been 13 casualties.
• 19:33
  There were 13 casualties on the day that Biden pulled out of Afghanistan and abandoned all of that equipment and all those people.
• 19:43
  And the acts that our presidents and our uh military leaders have done in the past on the behalf of the civilians who run the government has emboldened these people and convinced them that we do not intend to follow through on.
• 19:57
  The one thing I learned from dealing with those.
• 20:00
  13 or so folks that I dealt with when I was interrogating or debriefing them is you don't make a promise you can't keep and don't make a threat you don't intend to do.
• 20:09
  And what we've seen over time is red line after red line after red line after red line that produced no actionable result.
• 20:17
  And in their mind, we're paper taggers.
• 20:20
  We've got a lot of power, but with two carriedly to apply it in a way.
• 20:27
  All right.
• 20:28
  That's a great point.
• 20:29
  And let's freeze that thought a moment and take that now over here and say to you.
• 20:35
  As they now look at America and they look at what's happening, that paper tiger comment.
• 20:40
  And is Trump uh a different breed for a different day, and they kind of know that now?
• 20:49
  Well, they should.
• 20:50
  I mean, uh the thing I like that Trump has done is he tells them directly what he's going to do, and then he does it, you know.
• 20:57
  And I know that upsets a lot of people, yeah, but that's the way you actually have to deal with that mentality.
• 21:05
  You know, you if that if they believe that you're going to back down, they're going to continue to do what they've done.
• 21:11
  That's why they made the outrageous demands they originally made in the first part of the negotiations.
• 21:17
  All right.
• 21:18
  So to tie that end up a moment here.
• 21:22
  So when Vance flies out there, like a 21, 22 hour flight to Pakistan, and they all get out there, and everybody was hyped up about the world, Europe, who's been a total failure, is all hyped up about this deal.
• 21:35
  Uh, and I'm thinking to myself, there's no deal that's coming out of that.
• 21:39
  We're just doing this for the prosperity of the media and everybody, so they feel good for a little bit here.
• 21:47
  Um, did you ever think in your moment, you you knowing what you know, did you ever think that, oh, there's a chance they might just come home with the deal this time.
• 21:56
  And of course, not that the deal would be worth anything because it wouldn't be worth anything because they don't follow through on anything.
• 22:01
  So, no matter what the hell kind of deal you get, even if it was a deal, there really is no deal.
• 22:07
  I mean, it's not worth the paper it's on because they again back to your your point of Allah and and the Quran, they can lie, cheat, steal, and it tells them to do that in there.
• 22:16
  It tells them that no paper is worth the paper it's on, the agreement.
• 22:20
  So you're perfectly good to do that.
• 22:21
  And you can lie, and I I know the word for word, I've had them tell me they you can actually lie, and it's perfectly legitimate, and that that actually gets you to heaven faster to their heaven.
• 22:30
  Uh so did you understand?
• 22:32
  I'm sorry to cut you off.
• 22:34
  Did you ever think that that would happen?
• 22:36
  I didn't think they'd come back with a deal, but I tell you what I did think, and what I do think is that what he's done strategically is show them that we mean business by going out there and offering them the chance and then leaving very quickly and not putting up with their uh BS.
• 22:56
  Yeah, not putting up with that stuff uh and leaving very quickly.
• 23:00
  What they've done is they've demonstrated, particularly now that uh uh Trump is gonna do something about uh blocking the ports of Iran.
• 23:10
  What they've demonstrated is oh no, this is not the same.
• 23:14
  This is different.
• 23:15
  You're gonna have to handle this differently than you've handled it before.
• 23:19
  You can't make an empty promise and then change your mind uh later on.
• 23:24
  Um now they can try, but now I think you've planted the seed of doubt that they're going to be able to get away with it because you know, we have the technical ability to you know monitor all that stuff.
• 23:37
  Okay, all right.
• 23:38
  That's a good point you make.
• 23:39
  Uh uh, I accept that.
• 23:40
  Um, do you um right now, seeing where things are, you know what's interesting in these days right now is Trump has reversed the script, and I think a lot of people did as always, as always, they did not expect that.
• 23:55
  When he took uh in the last many days control of the Strait of Hormuz, and uh whereas um they were trying to do exactly what they were doing, hold it hostage uh for the international community and uh freeze everybody out of there, but let their ships go through.
• 24:10
  And then he's he he, I mean, that was uh you correct me on that, but I think that was probably a brilliant move.
• 24:18
  The fact that he flipped the entire script, not everybody's saying that, obviously.
• 24:21
  Certainly the media hasn't been saying that uh to surprise, surprise.
• 24:25
  But uh, but the fact that he did that was fairly brilliant.
• 24:29
  And uh, so uh speak to that point a moment.
• 24:33
  And what do you think, Jim?
• 24:35
  What do you think uh with this straight now?
• 24:38
  What happens next?
• 24:39
  Where do you see this going?
• 24:40
  Where do you what do you see at the what would you say in the weeks ahead?
• 24:45
  What what's your feelings on it?
• 24:47
  Okay, that's two questions.
• 24:49
  So the the first thing I would say is um he did flip the script.
• 24:54
  Well, like you said, he did flip the script.
• 24:56
  Uh and I suspect that he knew he was gonna have to do that anyway.
• 25:03
  He he knew that was was going to occur.
• 25:06
  Um but he wanted to demonstrate both to them and to the rest of the world that he was willing to make a deal, and the deal is really is surrender, you know, with a with a couple of uh things that they would be willing to uh but and but if he really wanted to be draconian, if he really wanted to destroy them and destroy their economy, he would hit the water desalination plants, and he would hit the oil manufacturing the oil wells and the oral or manufacturing stuff.
• 25:40
  He's not doing that.
• 25:41
  Instead, he's just not letting boats come in and out of their uh harbors.
• 25:45
  So uh but if he did hold on a minute, if he did what you just said, that would impact the Iranian people in big ways, and I think the world would really okay.
• 25:54
  All right, exactly.
• 25:55
  And he knows that.
• 25:56
  So what he has to do is he has to get them to show their backsides so that he can uh do a uh measured and appropriate response.
• 26:06
  One of the things I used to do psychological profiling for uh various bad guys and and uh the people were interested in catching.
• 26:15
  And one thing that's a rule of thumb is your strength becomes your weakness.
• 26:19
  Your greatest strength is your most vulnerable weakness for a lot of reasons because you are confident about it, you feel like you've got it under control.
• 26:27
  Well, they thought like that about the Strait of Harmoose.
• 26:30
  They felt that they had complete control of the Strait of Hamoose.
• 26:33
  That was their strength.
• 26:34
  And so, if what you're going to do is attack those centers of gravity, you attack their strength.
• 26:40
  That's what you attack.
• 26:41
  That's why he went after the nukes and the long-line missiles.
• 26:46
  I think he's following the practical way of handling that.
• 26:51
  Yeah, no, no, that's that's you're I think you're right over target.
• 26:54
  Uh so with the straight now and reversing the script as he has done, uh, which I do, and I think you agree was a brilliant move.
• 27:08
  Um, that not everybody would um uh agree with not everybody would say what we're saying right now because they're against uh any success here, of course, the media.
• 27:18
  So a lot of people, a lot of Americans don't know this.
• 27:21
  But um, so what where do you see it going now in the weeks ahead?
• 27:26
  And and is there, and I guess the the bigger part of I why I asked that, and maybe the bigger question, Jim, is what is the breaking point?
• 27:37
  What is the breaking point of this deal where these people finally get it?
• 27:43
  I mean, if ever that's possible, that Trump is not backing down on this thing.
• 27:50
  Well, again, that's that's two things.
• 27:53
  So let me address the last one first.
• 27:56
  I think the breaking point is when they realize oh, we're about to lose everything.
• 28:02
  So we have to make concessions so that enough of us remain that we can keep the seeds of this revolutionary uh movement alive.
• 28:12
  Okay.
• 28:12
  Now, what we would hope is that the Kurds in one part of Iran and uh people of Iran, the army of Iran, which he hasn't been targeting, Trump hasn't been targeting that much, would rise up and get rid of these folks.
• 28:25
  That's what you would hope.
• 28:26
  Uh, in terms of the uh things that they're most likely to do, what they did when we first started bombing them by uh sending missiles and drones and all of that stuff at the at our enemies at the other states, uh countries there in that or uh region, uh indiscriminately dropping cluster bombs on uh folks who previously had not been at war with them, is precisely the kind of thing they would do with a nuke.
• 28:56
  If they had a nuclear weapon, they would hold the world hostage and they would threaten the people around them.
• 29:03
  And so what I think they're gonna do, you know, the the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior and similar situations.
• 29:12
  So what I would say is it's likely to be some version of what we've already seen at a more escalated uh sense if they can.
• 29:20
  They're probably gonna try to hit some U.S.
• 29:22
  ships because you know, they get a they count coup if they do that.
• 29:26
  They get uh they get an attaboy and the world sees it, and maybe the public of the in the in America will turn against him if they kill a bunch of sailors.
• 29:34
  So you see that happening still.
• 29:35
  Hold on, there the ships and the sailors.
• 29:37
  Uh even though Trump has put it out there now, you see them they're going through the stretch.
• 29:41
  You think that is a real possibility?
• 29:44
  I think it's possible they're gonna try.
• 29:47
  I mean, they shot what?
• 29:48
  If the if what I read was accurate, they shot a hundred drones at an aircraft carrier, and not one of them got through.
• 29:55
  Yeah, there ought to be a that ought to be a clue as to how our
• 30:00
  Effective, you would be against our ships.
• 30:01
  But you know, but if they do that, I want to suggest back to you that, and I and I've thought about this, uh expecting what you said, but then they've got to know that uh I think they're gonna wake up.
• 30:15
  Um, I mean, I don't really call them a sleeping giant, but maybe it maybe it is a sleeping giant because there's another side of Trump I don't think you want to cross.
• 30:24
  Um, that's my guess.
• 30:26
  And I think that if they do anything close to that, they're gonna get hit so hard so fast, they're not their heads are gonna spin, they're not gonna know what happens.
• 30:34
  I don't know that they can help themselves.
• 30:36
  Okay.
• 30:37
  Right?
• 30:37
  They're honor-based society.
• 30:40
  They they kill their daughters if they've been raped.
• 30:44
  That ought to tell you what their mindset is.
• 30:47
  That's actually everything you need to know about their moral position in the world, you know, that they would uh that they would do that sort of thing.
• 30:55
  So in my view, you're gonna see more of the same.
• 30:59
  They're gonna try to uh what they're gonna try to do is infect the minds of the American public and lead them to believe that this war can't be run and that all they're doing is spending blood and treasure.
• 31:13
  And our media, our mainstream media, uh our traditional media is gonna help them with that, because that's all they're gonna do is they're gonna talk about how many people have died and how long it's been and what all the threats are and how much gas is costing and all that stuff, without realizing that at some point we were going to have to fight them.
• 31:34
  We were going to have to fight them, not because we wanted to, but because they were gonna fight us, and we had to do it at a time when they didn't have a nuclear weapon.
• 31:44
  Yeah.
• 31:45
  Would the media do they actually would uh would they ever uh do they know like the conversation we're having right now?
• 31:56
  I mean, they they know this, don't they know this?
• 31:59
  And why do they play it so badly?
• 32:02
  Or or or what some would suggest are they completely ignorant that they don't?
• 32:07
  They have to know this, Jim.
• 32:08
  It's gotta be all of the above, right?
• 32:10
  You've got to have some people who are who are woke and then just stupid, right?
• 32:15
  Well, that's what I'm wondering.
• 32:16
  How stupid are they?
• 32:17
  And then you've got to have then you've got to have some people who know better, but it brings clicks, and that's what they get paid to do.
• 32:24
  You know, take your car into the muffler shop for the free uh inspection, and oh my god, you're gonna need some car work done, you know.
• 32:32
  Send somebody from the New York Times out to dig up dirt uh and talk about reasons why they we and oh my god, that's gonna be something.
• 32:40
  Yeah, it's just the way it is.
• 32:43
  It's uh they they have found a way to monetize misery and fear, yeah.
• 32:50
  And that's what they do.
• 32:51
  Yeah, well, fear is the big word.
• 32:53
  That that is these campaigns are totally based on fear.
• 32:56
  There's no doubt about that.
• 32:57
  And uh that's that four-letter word again.
• 33:00
  And uh, but it is a big one.
• 33:01
  And uh well, hope and fear are the two most powerful uh human emotions that you have.
• 33:06
  Because what you would what you would want to do, I think, in a situation is leave the leave the person that you're wanting to influence with hope, but at the same time make them fearful enough that if they don't take advantage of the opportunities that are being offered, that hope will go away.
• 33:27
  And I think that's the message that our government currently is sending.
• 33:31
  Yeah, interesting.
• 33:33
  Uh I like what you say there with hope and fear, because it should make everybody aware that uh that um uh it's real.
• 33:41
  I mean, uh that it's either one emotion or the other.
• 33:44
  And and the this fear right now is being propagated so badly out there, uh, and and it's causing all kinds of problems with the energy circles, gas prices, the economy.
• 33:54
  Uh it's all fear-based.
• 33:56
  Uh and uh, and we're seeing the results of a lot.
• 33:58
  I mean, it's pretty bad stuff.
• 34:00
  All right.
• 34:00
  Uh let's uh let's continue to push forward here.
• 34:04
  And um, and uh I want to tell folks a moment here about uh uh the shop, America Rotlaud.shop.
• 34:12
  We'll we'll pause for a moment with uh Dr.
• 34:13
  James Mitchell be back with him in just a sec here.
• 34:16
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• 34:25
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• 34:30
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• 34:34
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• 34:38
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• 34:43
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• 34:51
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• 35:05
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• 35:16
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• 35:22
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• 35:24
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• 35:29
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• 35:36
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• 35:40
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• 35:42
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• 36:01
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• 36:05
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• 36:06
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• 36:09
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• 36:19
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• 36:27
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• 37:00
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• 37:06
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• 37:10
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• 37:11
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• 37:18
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• 37:25
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• 37:27
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• 37:31
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• 37:32
  Let's get back to Dr.
• 37:33
  James Mitchell now uh on the broadcast, and uh and we'll uh continue on here, Jim.
• 37:39
  And um uh so uh you know, we we've been talking, you see, a little different conversation today when we're talking about uh when we have someone like Dr.
• 37:48
  Mitchell, and because we're able to really get into some of the psychology that you're not gonna hear from just anywhere else.
• 37:53
  Um, because you know, because Jim understands the mindset of these people and understands what makes them tick, uh, that and it really is uh fear and then fear and hope he says it's interesting how these two competing narratives can control an awful lot.
• 38:09
  You know, in uh I want to tell you something.
• 38:12
  In uh the Iranian president here uh said uh just recent here, uh Jim said um an agreement with the United States was you're gonna now don't fall on the floor when I tell you this, but this is kind of funny, actually.
• 38:25
  I think I think you'll find it funny.
• 38:27
  Um he says an agreement with the United States is possible if Washington abandons abandons its totalitarianism and respects the rights of the Iranian nation.
• 38:42
  If the American government abandons its totalitarianism and respects the rights of the Iranian nation, uh there are ways to reach an agreement, can certainly be found.
• 38:50
  He he actually put that out on X and the social media.
• 38:54
  What do you think of that comment from the Iranian president?
• 38:58
  I think it's probably not worth the electricity it took to send it over the air, you know.
• 39:04
  I mean, uh, sure, if we're willing to, you know, pay the uh head tax uh to the uh Iranian uh uh Islamists, then yeah, I'm sure an agreement can be reached if we're willing to either convert or allow ourselves to be subjugated, I'm sure they'd be happy to deal with us.
• 39:22
  But that's just not uh I don't see that as being in the butt but talk about calling the kettle, uh calling the kettle black or whatever, right?
• 39:29
  I mean, that's uh I mean they're calling us that, and that's because Trump.
• 39:34
  Why, you know, Trump that message is not for their people, that message is for the uh mushy heads of the people at home.
• 39:42
  It's great, you know, the the the gays for Palestine or the you know uh people who would actually be killed within 24 hours of actually showing up in any of these places.
• 39:54
  You know, it's against the law in Saudi Arabia, or at least it was against the law uh when I happened to pass the
• 40:00
  There to own a Bible.
• 40:01
  It was against the law for you and me to get together and look at a piece of scripture and think about how it applies to our life.
• 40:09
  They could actually put you in jail and deport you for that.
• 40:12
  Well they not only that, deport your entire family for that.
• 40:15
  So this they're very, very good at crafting messages that are aiming at the hearts and minds of the American people.
• 40:24
  Well, it is.
• 40:25
  They they played that card really, really well, which and the media, of course, foments off all of it.
• 40:31
  Uh, that anybody would find them believable is is shocking to me, but they do.
• 40:37
  Um, and I again I always wonder how is it ignorance or is it stupid?
• 40:41
  You said it's probably all of the above when it comes to the media in our country.
• 40:45
  It's hard to say, actually, but uh it's uh it's it's a fool's game either way.
• 40:49
  Um so in I asked a couple of times, and we we we and I asked you two questions at once, and we we didn't answer either time.
• 40:58
  So I want to get back to that big point because it's something I really do want your opinion on that I think people would gain, and and you don't have a crystal ball here, I totally get that.
• 41:05
  But you understand the mindset of these people, like nobody's business.
• 41:09
  Um you're a guy of psychology, you you get what's going on here, you understand the mindset.
• 41:15
  You see what's happening.
• 41:16
  We know Trump comes along, Jim.
• 41:17
  He's a different kind of player.
• 41:19
  Uh, he's he's he's flipped the script entirely.
• 41:22
  Uh so he's not a paper tiger, back to your point earlier in your words.
• 41:28
  He's so he's not that.
• 41:30
  Uh, he he will follow through on things, and he's not afraid to do it.
• 41:33
  He will execute at the highest level.
• 41:36
  He does say an awful lot.
• 41:37
  Some people call that transparency, some people call that stupidity.
• 41:42
  Uh, the fact that you give that much information out there, it's it's a fact.
• 41:47
  But with all that said, what is it that is the end game here?
• 41:53
  We know what the end game is for both, but what do you think?
• 41:57
  I mean, what are the possibilities?
• 41:59
  Uh, we listen, I don't know.
• 42:03
  Are we at a point where we could maybe break the camels back at this bit, or maybe break mullahs, the the mullahs back at this point?
• 42:11
  Is that possible at all?
• 42:13
  And and and and might the Iranian people rise at that point to take their country back because the death and destruction is ridiculous, and the people they killed out there.
• 42:21
  Is that remotely possible?
• 42:24
  And do we stay in the fight?
• 42:25
  Because he's only got a 60-day window that is closing fast, and our media and the politicians are having a heart attack right about now.
• 42:31
  See, we got to move quickly here.
• 42:33
  Um thread that narrative, and what do you see as the outcome here, please?
• 42:38
  What does it look like to you a couple months from now?
• 42:41
  Well, I think a couple months from now, the current regime will still be trying to um leak this thing out as long as they can, as long as they can, because they have two hopes.
• 42:52
  One is that the public will turn against them because the media already is, right?
• 42:58
  Uh and the other is that if it that they uh they'll be so concerned about the uh next set of elections that they will force try to force him to do that.
• 43:08
  So you can be like that's right, right.
• 43:10
  That's a calculus that's on their mind.
• 43:12
  But hold on, hold on.
• 43:12
  I got I'm gonna reject you.
• 43:14
  Why don't why doesn't Israel has had such success with with killing off those the the regime, all those people in the room, and then the next layer, and they went out there.
• 43:23
  I was thinking they would try to pinpoint to go after those.
• 43:27
  I my impression was they were going to continue to take down those tiers of leaders until they whacked it down to the infantry, uh the base model.
• 43:37
  What I mean is that Well, I think I think one of the things that will probably have to happen is somebody's gonna have to start thinning out the uh revolutionary guard a lot more than they have been because those are the really hardcore.
• 43:53
  I've been thinking of that too.
• 43:54
  You know, so you know, to the extent that I don't I don't have a crystal ball, and I don't know whether we're gonna follow through it or not.
• 44:03
  But I think the Iranian current Iranian uh leaders are in survival mode and they're just trying everything.
• 44:11
  We're gonna we're gonna shoot stuff at uh gutter, we're gonna shoot stuff at uh Saudi Arabia, we're gonna shoot.
• 44:16
  Well, hopefully they'll do something.
• 44:18
  When that doesn't do it, then we're gonna threaten to blow up the uh you know ships that are out in the Strait of Hamous.
• 44:23
  That doesn't do it, they're gonna get the Hooties to fire a few missiles, then they're gonna try, they're gonna do whatever they can because they're desperate to stay alive.
• 44:30
  I think what the US would be wise to do is simply follow through.
• 44:36
  They have a plan that's put together by our war fighters that's systematically dismantling their country.
• 44:42
  Uh and uh, you know, uh I think they ought to just follow through on it.
• 44:48
  And they can't, if they stop now, they the the message won't be you barely survived.
• 44:56
  The message will be God is on our side and he drove the great Satan away, and we will live to fight them another day, and then they will go right back to surreptitiously trying to get a nuclear weapon and develop a long-range missile that will be able to deliver it to Europe or the United States, right?
• 45:14
  Which or wherever?
• 45:15
  Yeah.
• 45:15
  So when we say follow through, Jim, when we say follow, if we follow through, we know he's got a window here, a tight window.
• 45:23
  We know we where the regime is right now.
• 45:25
  I mean, it's multiple levels down.
• 45:27
  They're confused, they're running around like rats right now.
• 45:29
  They don't know which end is up.
• 45:30
  Uh, they're losing, as you say, the strategy is moving quickly, the game is moving quickly.
• 45:35
  They're gonna go back to the drawing board again, as you said earlier, and try to find another weak point or something.
• 45:40
  They're very good at that, playing that psychology game.
• 45:42
  They uh they really are very good at that.
• 45:44
  Uh, because they know how susceptible uh the American public to that kind of thinking.
• 45:50
  100%, 100%.
• 45:51
  That's the game.
• 45:52
  That's the whole game right now.
• 45:53
  And we don't we don't play unified here at all.
• 45:56
  That's what's really stupid about the this whole thing with the American people and the media and the rest of it, and the world, of course, is ridiculous.
• 46:02
  Uh, with France and Spain and all this England, you know, every all the stuff that's been going on is nuts.
• 46:08
  Um, you know, I'm just thinking here, too.
• 46:11
  You you look at this whole thing right now, Jim, and you think about you know if we thought a year ago, we would I don't think anybody's seen this coming.
• 46:20
  I I can't imagine anybody in their wildest dreams.
• 46:24
  In other words, if October 7th hadn't happened, and I you know, I I I guess in a weird sort of way, you might say, and it's kind of it doesn't sound very nice, actually, but um, in a weird sort of way.
• 46:37
  If you're talking about, all right, hold on now.
• 46:39
  I gotta say this first.
• 46:40
  You you've already said it a couple of times.
• 46:42
  We were that we were either going to have this fight now or later or somewhere in between, but we were gonna have this fight at some point.
• 46:50
  Now, we all could agree on that.
• 46:52
  If it and I know some of you may not, but you everybody has to agree on that point because it is a fact, it is a fact.
• 46:59
  So if that's the case, Hamas on October 7th, is it a weird way to kind of say, and this doesn't sound nice, but in a weird kind of way, did they do humanity a favor?
• 47:12
  Yeah, I wouldn't put it that way for the reason that you don't want to put it that way.
• 47:16
  But in fact, what it did do is open people's eyes to the savagery of that group of folks.
• 47:22
  You know, they adopted a um there was a there's a uh a paper written um by one of the ISIS folks uh called the management of savagery.
• 47:34
  And what he suggested was a shift in tactics from simply fighting and killing soldiers to going into a country and doing the most horrific things you could do, kill children, you know, cut the throats of the wives, all that stuff that you've heard that they did, and they filmed it and they did it deliberately uh because what they wanted to do was to create so much horror that the that the uh public would back off.
• 48:00
  Now, what they didn't count on, because they're thinking with their world view is that the world would be so angry that a man like uh uh Donald Trump who has been unhappy with Iran since the 1980s when he's in charge of things would say, Well, somebody's gotta do it, I'm gonna have to do it.
• 48:20
  I'm the person in history uh that is capable of doing it, and I should do it and and actually start taking because if you look, there's a pattern that they use.
• 48:30
  There's a circular pattern that they use, they do some horrific thing, and then people adapt to it by actually imposing self-imposing sharia like changes in their freedoms, right?
• 48:44
  And and then they ratchet it up and they do another one, and then they ratchet it up and they do another.
• 48:48
  And each time you see it in England, you see it in Germany, you see it in France, you see it in Belgium.
• 48:54
  Uh whether you've got these group of uh of uh immigrants who don't move, don't move to the United States because they want to be American.
• 49:04
  Yeah, they move to the United States because they think their God has given them our resources.
• 49:09
  So what you end up with uh under the Biden administration is bus drivers and carpenters and electricians and factory workers, subsidizing jihadists who want to kill them when by all the money that they're sending into that black hole over there.
• 49:25
  Well, to your point, you know, when 9-11 happened back then, and we started to lose all those freedoms, and everybody got stupefied.
• 49:32
  Uh, and then you everybody paid the price for like ever.
• 49:36
  You had to go in an airport, you had to take off your shoes now with the bombers, you had to worry about everything else, you had to go through all this fear stuff.
• 49:42
  I mean, they were going crazy in the airports, and you know, just before that, I remember a couple of trips before that, Jim, just months before that.
• 49:49
  I remember going out to one of some at one time, some of the islands, and you could actually literally take your baggage and walk out of a plane and get on the plane.
• 49:58
  I've done it.
• 50:00
  And uh, and especially if I was running late, which I was many times now, and the and then after that, if you were running late, you never got anywhere near the airport.
• 50:08
  You never got anywhere near anything.
• 50:09
  They lock you, you know, you're out of there, man.
• 50:11
  So that's all part of that fear, that four-letter word you talked about.
• 50:14
  They take our freedoms away, and then you sort of we do, we do, we do.
• 50:21
  We do.
• 50:21
  And what I was more talking about is the self-imposition of blasphemy laws.
• 50:26
  Yeah, you know, people will not say anything negative about Muhammad or anything negative about the Quran or anything negative about the fictional history they have about how this thing came about, out of fear that some crazy uh well, they're not even crazy.
• 50:44
  Basically, what they are is in their mind they're the chosen people, and they're going back to the original intent of the Quran.
• 50:52
  They're not uh they're not uh crazy in the sense that a psychologist would think they're crazy, they're just true believers.
• 50:59
  And uh if you insult Muhammad or you insult the Quran, um it's death.
• 51:05
  I mean, that's just the what the way it is.
• 51:07
  Right.
• 51:07
  And we impose those kind of laws.
• 51:09
  Look what's happened in Britain where you have no go zones where you don't send in.
• 51:13
  We even have those here ourselves.
• 51:15
  Yeah.
• 51:15
  Yeah.
• 51:16
  Yeah, no, things are happening here that people don't even know.
• 51:18
  I mean, they're they're happening all over the country.
• 51:20
  Uh there's uh Sharia is actually taking hold in in multiple areas here in our country, isn't it?
• 51:26
  Yeah, oh yeah.
• 51:27
  In fact, uh in some states, um, if you want to draw up a civil contract based on Sharia law, that's perfectly legal.
• 51:38
  You know, you can leave your daughter uh two-thirds of what you leave your sons, you know.
• 51:45
  It's just yeah, it's crazy in my view.
• 51:49
  Yeah, yeah.
• 51:49
  All right, we got a few minutes left here.
• 51:51
  Uh so uh let's take advantage of it.
• 51:53
  And uh so where this ends then.
• 51:58
  Um is Trump successful for the most part in pulling those top tiers and Israel, I should say, uh, generation, uh, those top tier generations out of there.
• 52:12
  Could enough change come in for the Iranian people to get back to because right now they're not on the streets because of the fear.
• 52:19
  They shot so many of them in the head and did a mass graves all over the place.
• 52:24
  I had so I had an expert on from Iran, by the way, on Viewpoint or Jim, um, some little bit ago here, and he said to us the numbers that were killed were upwards of a hundred, nobody else is reporting it, he said, but with his people and stuff, he said about 140,000 is what he said to me.
• 52:41
  Oh, it's what he said to me on that program on viewpoint this Sunday.
• 52:44
  He absolutely said that.
• 52:46
  So um, whatever it is, they killed a lot of people, whatever the hell the number is.
• 52:49
  Uh people are saying it's 30, 50, 50,000, 30.
• 52:52
  I don't know what number.
• 52:53
  So uh is is Trump successful in pulling that off?
• 52:56
  Will will the Iranian people ride?
• 52:58
  I mean, this is the big quandary and question of the day.
• 53:01
  Will this all be worth it at that point?
• 53:03
  Will will we have success?
• 53:05
  Will Iran come back pre-1979 to back before the Shah days?
• 53:11
  And do you see that happening?
• 53:12
  Is that possible?
• 53:14
  Well, I think it's a possibility.
• 53:15
  It's up to the Iranians, it's not up to us.
• 53:17
  Of course.
• 53:18
  And you know, you asked me what I thought was likely to happen as this thing unfolds.
• 53:23
  I think the other Gulf states, the other Gulf countries are gonna actually attack Iran because of the crazy way they just keep firing stuff uh at their oil supplies and and they're threatening their water supplies.
• 53:37
  So, you know, I it's not just the United States at this point.
• 53:41
  You know, you've got this uh uh unpredictable uh uh um uh evil.
• 53:48
  I was trying to think of a different word, but evil is the thing that comes to mind.
• 53:51
  Yeah, uh, who fully intends to remember that what they believe is that their mandate by God is to create enough havoc and enough chaos and enough killing and enough distress that the end of days occurs.
• 54:09
  Now, not every Muslim thinks that way, right?
• 54:12
  Right, but there's a substantial portion of the 12ers who are in charge of Iran who do think that way.
• 54:18
  Oh, yeah.
• 54:18
  So they're waiting for the 12th Mahdi to come back.
• 54:21
  The 12th imam to come back, right?
• 54:23
  Yeah, yeah.
• 54:24
  And when uh and they believe that they have to lay the groundwork for doing that, and right being nuking uh Israel or starting a fight with the great Satan, that's the way you do it.
• 54:37
  But I think that I think that they're gonna strike out even more against the Gulf states and the Gulf states are gonna just say, Whoa, you know, you guys have got to back down.
• 54:47
  And so they have, I think personally, they have more to worry about in terms of the long-term consequences of this thing from the Gulf states than they do from us.
• 54:55
  Yeah, that's a great point.
• 54:56
  No, and the Gulf states is a very excellent point.
• 54:58
  I think you're right on it.
• 55:00
  Uh, and they're already starting to do that.
• 55:02
  They they've been playing a lot of defense, but there's been a lot of talk about them going on offense to your point there, and that would be a game changer as well against Iran.
• 55:10
  But they've all been um bothered by Iran.
• 55:12
  One of the most brilliant things, and I know we're out of time here, but one of the most brilliant things Trump did was to create those relationships back with the Abraham Accords, but even beyond all that, those great relationships he did in the Middle East prior, set this whole thing up to be able to he it wouldn't have worked otherwise, I don't think, Jim.
• 55:29
  But that was a big factor.
• 55:30
  Yes or no, was it?
• 55:32
  Yeah, I think I think they knew him.
• 55:34
  They've known him.
• 55:35
  You can know him by his behavior.
• 55:38
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 55:39
  That's right.
• 55:40
  That's right.
• 55:40
  That's right.
• 55:41
  Perfect.
• 55:42
  All right.
• 55:42
  So, Dr.
• 55:43
  James Mitchell, and uh his um that that book you did years ago.
• 55:48
  I know it's been a lot of years, but it's still a great read.
• 55:51
  It enhanced interrogation, isn't it?
• 55:53
  That's called, I think.
• 55:54
  Yeah, inside the minds uh of the terrorists who are trying to destroy us.
• 55:58
  Yeah, yeah.
• 55:59
  We'll put the link in the post here as this goes out to all of the uh podcasts and all the video sites and uh audio sites as well.
• 56:05
  Play on talk radio as well, by the way, here.
• 56:08
  Uh tremendous thank you, Jim.
• 56:09
  You're just uh uh a wealth of knowledge, and uh there's so many other things.
• 56:13
  I wanted we didn't have time, I wanted to talk a little more about Venezuela, Cuba, some of the other things in the hemisphere here, but we'll do it another time here.
• 56:19
  Um privileged to have you here, brother.
• 56:21
  Thank you.
• 56:22
  Thank you for having me.
• 56:23
  That's Dr.
• 56:23
  James Mitchell, uh, best in class, uh, for sure, friends.
• 56:27
  And um, good conversation.
• 56:29
  Uh, you get in understand a little more of the psychology here, I think, and what's behind all of this.
• 56:33
  And uh, you know, it it's a shame that uh that uh uh the the media and some of the politicians don't uh figure it out, you know, and um if maybe they know it, maybe they don't know it, but uh it's either stupid or ignorant, I don't know which, but it would be awfully nice, wouldn't it?
• 56:51
  Would be nice.
• 56:52
  Thanks for joining me here on the mission on Project Out Loud.
• 56:55
  It's time to get involved and get loud.
• 56:58
  I'm there.