Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Martin Parsons about his choice of Image of the Fendhal (3/4)

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Talks to Martin Parsons about his choice of Image of the Fendhal (3/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  Hamster with a blunt pen knife for doing quicker Welcome back
• 0:38
  to a Hamster with a Blunt Pen knife, the Doctor Who Commentary
• 0:43
  podcast. Now, Martin, I've got a question
• 0:45
  for you right at the start of this episode.
• 0:47
  OK, go ahead. How do you make a fruit cake?
• 0:52
  It's like oh God, I can't even remember what it is now.
• 0:54
  Was it pencil shavings? Put it in the oven.
• 0:59
  Oh yeah, he gets that stupid recipe, doesn't he?
• 1:02
  Which I think is that in itself, it's just one of those moments
• 1:06
  of like, really exceptional Doctor Who he sort of writing is
• 1:13
  it? That doesn't happen in other
• 1:14
  things. You don't resurrect someone with
• 1:17
  fruit cake. That's just like, as I say,
• 1:20
  eating this delicious fruit cake that I've got at the moment.
• 1:22
  I. Know what you mean?
• 1:23
  There is a peculiar like Doctor Who way of doing things isn't.
• 1:27
  There. Yeah, that more.
• 1:28
  Romantic science fiction like Star Wars, which is a bit more
• 1:31
  sexy, doesn't get. No, no.
• 1:34
  And it and it wouldn't happen in Star Trek.
• 1:37
  You know what I mean? It's one of those where you're
• 1:39
  like, I don't know. You'd all be technobabble.
• 1:41
  Wouldn't it? It would all be technobabble and
• 1:42
  you're not going to be calling on like ridiculous things.
• 1:45
  And sort of I have. Stimulated the cortical
• 1:48
  responses in her head. Oh my God, she's awake, OK.
• 1:52
  Just Gates McFadden on her little iPad like it's fine,
• 1:55
  we've done it. She's having no part in this
• 1:58
  production, all right. The acting is too strong.
• 2:01
  That actually is too strong do. You know, it's been so long
• 2:05
  since we watched Episode 2, I've forgotten how it ended.
• 2:11
  Well, I mean, we've been gossiping for about an hour,
• 2:13
  putting the wells to rights, and, you know, we was talking
• 2:16
  about you, all right? Yeah.
• 2:18
  Oh, 100%. Oh, and your podcast as well.
• 2:22
  Extremely tedious to listen to. Yeah, I had a small list, didn't
• 2:26
  I? Oh, small wasn't mean.
• 2:30
  It took an hour, Joe. It took an hour.
• 2:32
  Well, I know there's a lot of boring podcasts.
• 2:37
  Would you care to count us in and we'll remind ourselves where
• 2:40
  we left off? Yes, right.
• 2:42
  Let me just get the episode up, make sure we've got the right
• 2:44
  one. OK?
• 2:45
  Are we ready? You did say get the episode up
• 2:47
  there, didn't? You, you're going to get
• 2:49
  something up on this point this time of night.
• 2:51
  OK, so. Yeah, it's unlikely.
• 2:55
  Are you? Are you ready?
• 2:56
  I'm ready. OK, let's go in 3/2 1.
• 3:01
  People don't usually ask me if I'm ready.
• 3:04
  Don't just do it. Oh, boy, you've got to stop me,
• 3:08
  all right? OK.
• 3:09
  Don't encourage it, right? There's OK where are we?
• 3:14
  We're going down the great colonoscopy right now.
• 3:18
  Paul Baker's face, the Doctor Who logo, it is.
• 3:22
  Oh, he touched the skull. You're right.
• 3:24
  He touched the. Skull.
• 3:26
  And then showed extreme pain. Who say to him, oh, Leela does.
• 3:32
  Leela does by kicking the chair out, which is just, again,
• 3:35
  brilliant. It's like.
• 3:36
  Of course, and if there was ever a sexual harassment case in the
• 3:39
  TARDIS is how he does she land on him or he land on her?
• 3:43
  He lands on her, doesn't he? Yeah, I don't know how happy
• 3:49
  Louise Jameson. Was about that?
• 3:52
  Absolutely not. Don't want any part of this.
• 3:54
  Don't you think, right, this is going to be a bit of a random
• 3:56
  thing to say, but don't you think mid 70s TV, they do like
• 4:02
  laboratories and living rooms and they do little sets like
• 4:07
  that, just so cosy and and packed full of detail.
• 4:11
  Yeah, and it's something to do with the, I think also there is
• 4:15
  that thing of like you were talking about the the, the
• 4:16
  spools, the the computer, real things that you get when you get
• 4:19
  like the returning set dressing as well.
• 4:22
  You're kind of like, no? They have a noise, they go, oh
• 4:30
  Louise love, that is not your best chamois lever.
• 4:33
  No, it's a really odd. I'd sort of forgotten that they
• 4:36
  have the whole thing about the change of outfit and it's very
• 4:39
  strange. And then they just go back to
• 4:41
  the old. It's like OK.
• 4:42
  I mean, she was in a jumper in horror.
• 4:44
  Fang Rock, couldn't she have kept that?
• 4:45
  No, I know. And also really great.
• 4:47
  That costume's brilliant for Lena I.
• 4:49
  Really like it. Dress in talons of Wang Cheyang.
• 4:51
  Oh yeah. Also, Yeah, yeah.
• 4:52
  Doesn't she end up sort of wearing a duvet in Invasion?
• 4:56
  Of time, a nice snug duvey that she gets.
• 4:58
  Actually, I'd love one of those right now.
• 5:00
  You know it'd. Be really nice, wouldn't?
• 5:01
  It quite nippy. I mean, look at that hallway.
• 5:04
  I mean, it does look very like Harrison Chase's hallway.
• 5:07
  Yeah. These are doom.
• 5:10
  I mean, do you think they just keep nicking bits from other
• 5:13
  stories? I was, I was going to say
• 5:14
  because they they keep flats, don't they?
• 5:16
  They would they would keep certain things and I guess maybe
• 5:19
  they do just reuse things from the cupboards.
• 5:21
  Imagine right, if you had a time machine mine like, we wouldn't
• 5:25
  go anywhere exciting in history. We'd head back to the 70s to see
• 5:28
  all the flats in storage. Oh God.
• 5:31
  BBC Archives. Absolutely fantastic.
• 5:35
  That camera was so far down her top.
• 5:38
  I mean, it's, it is like Louise says it herself in interviews,
• 5:42
  or I say Louise like she's my busy mate.
• 5:44
  She says it all the time about how, you know, it was a feminist
• 5:47
  statement. She was a strong, competent
• 5:49
  woman, you know, warrior. But they took all my clothes off
• 5:53
  in order to make that statement. So we weren't quite there.
• 5:57
  No, but I, I think she's very, I like her perspective on it and I
• 6:02
  think she's very sort of Fair to that is the way it was.
• 6:07
  And it's not sort of she's not attacking them for it.
• 6:09
  She's kind of like this is what happened.
• 6:11
  It might have been nicer if it could have happened differently.
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  But again, I just think she's such a professional and she was
• 6:17
  a delight to interview because she just, she just has the
• 6:20
  answers. She doesn't have, you know, she
• 6:22
  can just give you what you need. She knows exactly how an
• 6:24
  interview works. Like, you know, we need 10
• 6:26
  minutes, say this, do this. Great.
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  Did she mention Janice Thorne, the out of work actress?
• 6:33
  What? Was that?
• 6:33
  Oh, that's the joke she tells in every commentary.
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  Unfortunately, she's talking about her genius forms.
• 6:39
  Oh, and. How they used to call it Janice
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  Thorne the. Out of work actress.
• 6:44
  Yeah, she didn't actually. But I mean, I was, I was like,
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  let's talk about this horror film you made in like 1971.
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  And she was like, Jesus Christ, She's like, all right.
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  I said to her, you know, you was in EastEnders for a couple of
• 6:55
  years. She said this interview is over.
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  I was like, OK, OK, no, I'm joking.
• 7:00
  I'm joking. She she did sound pretty like
• 7:03
  hurt about. I mean, I do feel like it's,
• 7:05
  it's, I know there was all sorts of production things going on,
• 7:08
  but it is a bit ridiculous that you they.
• 7:10
  Should have been the Slaters that.
• 7:12
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, by by miles.
• 7:14
  And it's that thing of like, you get someone with that calibre,
• 7:16
  an actress as good as her, and then you just dump her.
• 7:19
  It's like, no, that's that's terrible.
• 7:20
  Like, you know, management of of people.
• 7:23
  She's done time in a prisoner of war camp, all right?
• 7:26
  She's been to Jersey with Bergerac.
• 7:29
  You know, she's been a busy woman.
• 7:31
  I'll tell you I what I also in preparation for this, I
• 7:33
  rewatched the the the Chris voucher like the the horror, the
• 7:39
  Halloween fires in the fall, the Bergerac episode that's like the
• 7:42
  Christmas horror special. What's that?
• 7:45
  Is that? Any good?
• 7:45
  Oh, it's great. It's great.
• 7:47
  Halloween. Is it so?
• 7:48
  Well, it's. It's like, I think it was
• 7:50
  actually a Christmas special, but it's set like at Halloween
• 7:52
  basically, and it's just some like someone going round
• 7:59
  speaking like creepy children's nursery rhymes.
• 8:02
  And it's still the point when Louise James and still his
• 8:04
  girlfriend and it's got Amanda Redmond is in it quite young and
• 8:07
  it's it's great. And yeah, Chris Belcher script
• 8:10
  just very creepy, but also really interesting.
• 8:13
  There's some really interesting kind of politics in it as well.
• 8:15
  Like it's very, very. Viable.
• 8:18
  I've got to watch that. Oh.
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  God, I had to watch on bloody Dailymotion because I couldn't.
• 8:22
  I couldn't find anywhere. Every two minutes?
• 8:25
  Absolutely. Awful, but but it like because
• 8:29
  it wasn't on, I couldn't find it anywhere.
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  I think it might be on Amazon Prime maybe.
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  Maybe fires in the fall. Yeah, it's really, really good.
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  Good title again actually. Great title.
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  And it's sort of like a creepy nursery rhyme that's like, it's
• 8:45
  like sing a song of sixpence. It's like sing a song of
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  seasons, colours in the mall, flowers in the spring and fires
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  in the fall. And it's like this creepy
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  children's voice. It's about a medium exploiting
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  like this old woman. It's great.
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  It's really, really. Great.
• 8:59
  Just Patricia Quinn you end up having a sing song with Is It?
• 9:03
  Wherever I go, wherever. I go.
• 9:05
  I love having a sing song, don't you worry.
• 9:07
  But it is no, no, but I just think it because it just shows
• 9:10
  that the yeah, Chris Batch, like he writes well in every, like
• 9:14
  everything he does. I think he knows how to handle
• 9:16
  other people's characters. Weirdly, the only time I've felt
• 9:20
  that his writing was under par is when he's written Doctor Who
• 9:23
  books. So he wrote a handful of that
• 9:26
  BBC pass code for Avengers actually, and they're just not
• 9:29
  the best. It's not where his strengths.
• 9:31
  Lie, it's it's not, but I think that is, again, is totally
• 9:34
  valid. Like he's a screenwriter.
• 9:36
  I did like his his Caldor City, because he only did one of them,
• 9:41
  didn't he? But but I did like that one.
• 9:44
  Those were just great audios. Those I, yeah, I re I went
• 9:48
  through those again in preparation and was like fuck,
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  these are brilliant. I'd forgotten how good they were
• 9:54
  and I'd forgotten how well seeded the Fendile stuff is as
• 9:56
  well into that plot which they the first time around totally
• 10:00
  missed it. All the skull stuff.
• 10:02
  Fruitcake. He went I love fruitcake to go
• 10:07
  and get I'm so jealous of you right now.
• 10:09
  I can see you munching away on your.
• 10:11
  Fruitcake and it's really good. I wasn't expecting it to be
• 10:13
  this. Good you know it's I suggest.
• 10:16
  Thank you. Shouldn't.
• 10:17
  You shouldn't eat fruitcake after midnight.
• 10:19
  You know. I've watched you turn into a
• 10:21
  gremlin. Oh well, here we go.
• 10:24
  Right, It's all happening now, so Styles got the pistol.
• 10:27
  He's going to take him down to the cellar.
• 10:29
  He's just said to Thea as well. The scanner has awakened the
• 10:33
  power in the skull, so we know it's coming.
• 10:36
  Yeah, and I I just love you've got an industrial relations
• 10:40
  problem. Oh, it's just Colby's just sarky
• 10:42
  all the way through. He's so good.
• 10:45
  Look at the direction here where he's looking at the garners.
• 10:47
  Well, that's a really lovely moment.
• 10:49
  Really well done. Like he does those kind of tight
• 10:51
  shots incredibly well. I just, I love just to see the
• 10:56
  styles, like completely evil. He's he's just brilliant.
• 11:00
  Relax, Max. Oh, do it.
• 11:05
  He's so cool even when there's a gun in his.
• 11:07
  Face oh so so cool followers that's impressive he's.
• 11:13
  So good. I love it when he doesn't he go.
• 11:16
  He goes for Mark Tyler. Don't think he'll be in episode
• 11:19
  4. And her son goes away.
• 11:21
  You leave her alone. And then he's not to come over.
• 11:24
  Swede Basher, most of the Rick. Max isn't known for its famous
• 11:32
  sense of humour. Oh, you're Maxi.
• 11:35
  Warn you again, Colby? Oh, you're just.
• 11:37
  It's just the relationships between them that are brilliant.
• 11:40
  Hence I enjoy having it. Worship me.
• 11:43
  Very. It's very like Season 2 Blake 7,
• 11:47
  isn't it? Where?
• 11:47
  Oh, maybe they work together. Yeah, yeah, they don't really
• 11:50
  like each other. No, And you're genuinely not
• 11:53
  sure where the kind of fault lines are.
• 11:55
  You don't. You don't know who actually
• 11:56
  genuinely dislikes the other people.
• 11:59
  And there's bite and sarcasm to the dialogue, which, Oh yeah,
• 12:03
  Mrs. Tyler, but. It is a sort of punch the air
• 12:07
  moment because she could. You sort of get he's like, Oh
• 12:09
  no, she's fading away. And then she's like, yeah,
• 12:11
  that's not how you make fruit cake.
• 12:12
  It's brilliant. It's like, yes, she's back.
• 12:14
  Oh, come along, Mark, that's not the best Shiner and there's some
• 12:18
  mother cake in the other tin here.
• 12:23
  What the hell are you doing here on this podcast?
• 12:25
  I ain't never seen you before in my life.
• 12:30
  But it's all just very, it's very sharp.
• 12:32
  It's very well delivered. I love the fact that, yeah, that
• 12:36
  they're all committing to the accent and stuff is just
• 12:39
  brilliant. You love it as well when Tom
• 12:41
  Baker realizes he's been out eccentric by so he knows he's
• 12:46
  never going to be more eccentric than Daphne heard so he don't
• 12:48
  even bother. No, it's what it's like when he
• 12:51
  meets Beatrix Layman in Stones of Blood and he's like.
• 12:54
  Well. I may as well just play this for
• 12:56
  real. It's exactly stones of blood,
• 12:58
  isn't it? It's just like you give him.
• 13:00
  But it is. It's one of those things where
• 13:01
  Tom Baker does brilliantly with older women in the same way that
• 13:06
  I think Peter Davison does brilliantly with Not Old, not as
• 13:11
  old as the Tom Baker ones, but. You mean with liver birds?
• 13:14
  I mean with any liver birds, just pick your liver bird that's
• 13:17
  and that is I think that works incredibly well as well.
• 13:21
  I think Colin does well, like you know what he does, the
• 13:23
  scenes with Honour, Blackman and Tara, the verb voice he does
• 13:26
  well with and obviously Evelyn and Evelyn.
• 13:29
  Yeah. I mean, that's just, yeah,
• 13:30
  that's just, it's superb. I read a lot.
• 13:33
  It's just such a fantastic line. If they were savvy, though,
• 13:38
  right, they would have given Tom an old, older woman companion.
• 13:42
  It would have been gold. Oh, God, yeah.
• 13:44
  I mean, it's one of those where I think you you obviously what
• 13:49
  we got was so good, but you can imagine other ways that it could
• 13:52
  have worked that would have just been absolutely superb as.
• 13:55
  Well, they do it with Big Finish, don't they?
• 13:57
  Give him nearest use for it. They give.
• 13:59
  Him. Yeah.
• 13:59
  They give him a life of Bird, of course.
• 14:01
  Has everybody been great? Oh, Don Brennan, I can see your
• 14:05
  ball spot coming on there, all right.
• 14:08
  The camera is unforgiving. So was he a villain in
• 14:11
  Coronation? Street he was a long term
• 14:13
  regular, like he did it for decades, but there was a period
• 14:18
  where he went completely mad and he had oh mad staring eyes.
• 14:22
  He was going around murdering after cast.
• 14:25
  Oh shit no I don't I I've never really watched it regularly but
• 14:28
  I'd sort of dip in and out but I don't remember him at all it.
• 14:31
  Was the eternal battle during the McCoy era, you know?
• 14:34
  That was that was slightly before my time.
• 14:37
  I could sometimes have a tantrum enough to get my own way, but
• 14:40
  not often. I mean, I love how towards the
• 14:44
  end of this episode it just deep dives into gothic horror,
• 14:48
  doesn't it? All, Yeah.
• 14:49
  The the pentagram coming alive, her rising off the floor, the
• 14:55
  choral music. And that's where I think the
• 14:57
  slight, all, all of this Colby dialogue is absolute, one of
• 15:01
  those feeble, inadequate. So he thinks he can be with the
• 15:03
  devil. Got to got to summon up the
• 15:07
  devil, huh? That's.
• 15:08
  That's the only bit I'm like, OK, that line could maybe have
• 15:11
  done that. Another take of going to summon
• 15:14
  up the devil, huh? Like he would.
• 15:15
  Literally be the best person to go on a date with Colby.
• 15:19
  Just have a line for everything. Everything.
• 15:22
  But that's what I mean. I was like, imagine.
• 15:24
  I know it's a ridiculous thing. We'd never, we'll never get it
• 15:26
  now. But him versus Catherine Tate
• 15:29
  would just would just be absolutely delicious.
• 15:33
  Those two together would be brilliant.
• 15:36
  You just want to mate. I didn't say anything about
• 15:39
  that. Look at this pair.
• 15:40
  Look at Starlin Colby. There's no way these two haven't
• 15:43
  farted. Yeah, look at.
• 15:44
  Him. He's stroking his face with a
• 15:46
  gun, puts. The gun on his.
• 15:48
  Lips together, I look forward to your terror.
• 15:51
  Yeah. I've said that to a few men,
• 15:55
  sorry. But it is but this is what I
• 15:57
  think the the prop. This is another trying to be
• 16:00
  critical. Slight problem is because it
• 16:02
  goes so full into the Gothic it then I feel like it's sort of a
• 16:07
  bit lost it because again, it's like what I I then need it to be
• 16:12
  more like brutal almost. I need like smoking corpses like
• 16:17
  you know, when they start getting killed off.
• 16:18
  I need a bit more than that. Remember I said about all the
• 16:21
  conceptual horror early, all the intelligent dialogue That's kind
• 16:24
  of all dropped and in the last episode and 1/2, it is all set
• 16:28
  pieces. Then the Vendoline come along,
• 16:30
  she's murdering everybody. Yeah, You know, we're sort of
• 16:33
  building up to that big dramatic and the horror is just full on
• 16:37
  in that last episode. But yeah, you do.
• 16:40
  Oh, this is a really odd scene now.
• 16:42
  I always think it's so weird when we go back to the TARDIS in
• 16:46
  the middle of a story. Oh God, So especially when when
• 16:48
  they're travelling, it's like if they just pop in to pick
• 16:50
  something up, OK, fine. But when they're like, oh, we're
• 16:52
  actually going off somewhere, it's like, Oh no, don't do that.
• 16:55
  It's a. Horror Story The worst thing you
• 16:57
  could do is go to a place of safety for a.
• 17:00
  Couple. Yeah, yeah, unless you do it
• 17:02
  like Pyramids of Mars, where you're like, actually we're here
• 17:04
  just to show you that things could get worse and both things
• 17:06
  could be fun or like death to the death.
• 17:10
  The Daleks where, you know, it's like Sarah goes in to try and
• 17:13
  get to safety, but there's the they're in there and it's like
• 17:17
  that. That's, that's the.
• 17:18
  Hand coming across the console floor.
• 17:22
  This is odd it. Is all exposition this as well?
• 17:25
  And it's a narrative dead end as well.
• 17:27
  This is it and that's where I sort of, but again, even this
• 17:30
  shot is nice. Just just quick on the films
• 17:33
  that I just like it. I think it looks good.
• 17:35
  Look at that man though. Are you thinking no income tax?
• 17:39
  No, but it's, but this just, it's really nicely directed.
• 17:44
  I just think it looks really good.
• 17:46
  You know this man Ted Moss has managed to be in every single
• 17:49
  episode so far. I know, but bringing a lot to
• 17:53
  the story. Yeah.
• 17:55
  Again, though, it's like I sort of get.
• 17:57
  I like that there's a background.
• 17:58
  Oh, no, I've got to say this. I find really odd that Leela's
• 18:01
  had a nightmare and we don't see it.
• 18:03
  Yeah. That's to her on the floor.
• 18:05
  Yeah. And I find that because then
• 18:07
  later on she references it again.
• 18:09
  Be like, oh, it's like that nightmare.
• 18:10
  And I'm like, yeah, the thing we didn't see.
• 18:12
  Yeah, cool. But you think we were supposed
• 18:14
  to see it? I sort of wondered if it was
• 18:16
  supposed to be her in the woods, like the doctor with something
• 18:20
  rushing towards her. And I was like, did they film it
• 18:23
  and it wasn't good enough? Like is was there something
• 18:25
  there that they lost? I don't know.
• 18:26
  Do. You know what I would have done
• 18:28
  in season 15? Yeah, is.
• 18:30
  I would have done the Andrew Carmel thing and minimised
• 18:33
  TARDIS scenes because he's so dirty.
• 18:36
  And yeah, it looks awful, Yeah. When she was on the floor there,
• 18:40
  the whole of the floor was. Filthy.
• 18:42
  Yeah, it's a real shit. But I do like, I like this bit
• 18:46
  just in terms of the that, yeah, that kind of background concept
• 18:51
  thing of the Time Lords are really powerful and they do bad
• 18:54
  things. And the fact that Leela's like,
• 18:57
  oh, that's interesting. And the Doctor's like, no, it's
• 18:59
  criminal. Like it's not.
• 19:00
  What are they done? They they put the planet in a
• 19:02
  time loop, so there's no data about the event.
• 19:04
  Yeah, so it's hidden is it's one of their things that they, they,
• 19:07
  they hide these things away, their secrets.
• 19:09
  And I like, that's the kind of thing that I like for the Time
• 19:12
  Lords. I like them being devious.
• 19:15
  It's like their Ravalox thing. I like that.
• 19:18
  I like that sort of approach to stuff and that's that shock.
• 19:21
  That shock coming out the crystal.
• 19:23
  Ball, that's incredible. There's not enough crystal balls
• 19:25
  in Doctor. Do you remember that fabulous
• 19:27
  woman in Snake Dance? I was going to.
• 19:28
  Say. Lutter my fingers, gaze deep
• 19:32
  into the ball. But now it's like we've
• 19:35
  literally removed the Doctor and Leela from the story and it's
• 19:38
  still going on without them, which kind of shows that they
• 19:41
  are redundant in yes. And that and again it goes back
• 19:44
  to that first opening 5 minutes where they're not in it and
• 19:46
  you're like, I don't care, but they're not in.
• 19:48
  It and yeah, but like, we're with like Mara and son Tyler,
• 19:51
  we're with them down in the crypt.
• 19:53
  You know who cares? Doctor Who?
• 19:57
  Exactly. But I think also it's the fact
• 19:59
  that, yeah, he doesn't believe it, but he knows that she.
• 20:04
  Is someone that he he trusts, that he knows, that she sort of
• 20:08
  understands things? That's really nicely played.
• 20:11
  She says most roundeer do, and when most believe, it's usually
• 20:15
  true. And he goes, yeah, but most
• 20:16
  people used to think the world was flat.
• 20:18
  That's really smart dialogue. Yeah, it's simple enough for the
• 20:22
  kids to understand. Oh, God, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 20:24
  And it's what I find interesting about this is I had a flatmate
• 20:28
  who really liked that dreadful show Supernatural.
• 20:33
  And the boys, though? Come on.
• 20:36
  But we oh God, I mean I really I couldn't bet.
• 20:39
  All my friends at uni used to love it and I.
• 20:42
  Went on. Forever.
• 20:43
  I just didn't end. But I was watching this and my
• 20:46
  housemate was like, wait, what? When she's like, oh, we, you
• 20:49
  know, put rock salt in the guns because that's what they do in
• 20:51
  Supernatural. And I was like, yeah, Doctor Who
• 20:53
  got there first. You know, that's the way it
• 20:55
  goes. But again, it's a very nice
• 20:56
  thing of, yeah, we know that salt protects you.
• 20:58
  It wards off evil. And so putting it in a gun like,
• 21:02
  yeah, brilliant, shoots salt. It's so great.
• 21:05
  I know I keep going on about the sets, but it's a this this
• 21:08
  underground Crip set as well. It's really great.
• 21:11
  It feels enormous. It feels.
• 21:13
  Massive. He keeps moving the camera
• 21:15
  around, so there's a sense of scale to.
• 21:17
  Yeah. And I think his camera is just
• 21:19
  use of moving camera is really good.
• 21:22
  It's subtle, but like you said, he sort of he'll he'll slowly
• 21:26
  zoom in and it works really well.
• 21:28
  He's linking up that old bone to the scanner.
• 21:31
  Yeah, again, they're all this. I'm a bit like, is he the power
• 21:34
  saw? Yeah, OK, sort of, but.
• 21:37
  Who cares? Look at this bit of acting now.
• 21:39
  But. But this is it.
• 21:40
  I was going to say it doesn't matter.
• 21:42
  Oh, that's great. But that just looks amazing.
• 21:45
  Martin only for the this call have the previous thousand
• 21:49
  episodes of a hamster of Blum pen knife I've been used.
• 21:54
  You've been used. A hamster with a blood pen knife
• 21:57
  has been used. Sorry, that's a terrible joke.
• 22:04
  Oh, we're back to the TARDIS again.
• 22:06
  And he goes, Oh no, we've got to get back there.
• 22:08
  Really. OK.
• 22:10
  And that's so odd as well, because we've just had the
• 22:11
  conversation of, yeah, it's the time scan of doing this.
• 22:14
  And the doctor's like, Oh my God, it's the time scan of doing
• 22:15
  it. You're like, yeah, we know.
• 22:17
  Like we're there. Like who actually saves the day
• 22:21
  in this story? Who?
• 22:23
  Who provides the solution? It's not the Doctor.
• 22:26
  It's not it's, it's just sort of it just kind of happens.
• 22:29
  I mean, I think the this is like you were saying about that last
• 22:32
  episode, there's sort of not really anything else going on
• 22:34
  anymore. It's just sort of it's just all
• 22:36
  the destruction and that's OK. But I think maybe there should
• 22:40
  have been a little bit more intelligence in it, or I think
• 22:44
  it should have come from organically from one of the
• 22:46
  characters. Like it should have been Thea
• 22:48
  that did it that, you know, they appealed.
• 22:50
  They do the classic appeal to her humanity, you know, that
• 22:53
  that sort of thing. Or it should have been Fendleman
• 22:55
  being like, actually, you know, this is sort of my fault.
• 22:58
  Not really, but. I think if I wasn't a kid
• 23:03
  switching on when this went out to episode 4 and I got loads of
• 23:08
  creepy scenes of great sluggy monsters going around murdering
• 23:11
  people, I don't think I would have had too many complaints
• 23:14
  though. No, this is very much in
• 23:16
  hindsight. And now we're.
• 23:17
  Adults Oh God yeah, absolutely. And, and it's just, but I also
• 23:22
  think this would be 1 where if you were watching this with like
• 23:26
  your, your child, I think you would just get swept up in the
• 23:30
  dialogue. I just think it works.
• 23:32
  It's very grown up in terms of the the dialogue and.
• 23:37
  Watching adults in a state of fear and anxiety used to really
• 23:42
  frighten me, so I. Think a lot of this would have
• 23:45
  worked for me. And I think, and for me, it's
• 23:47
  particularly the bit with Martylla where she's sort of
• 23:49
  broken that that, you know, it's really terrifying that sort of
• 23:53
  existential horror of it's this darkness that's trying to eat my
• 23:57
  soul. But just the idea as well the
• 24:00
  the, you know, he, he has that revelation there.
• 24:03
  We can't back to him and he's dead.
• 24:05
  And there's a there's a a long yeah, there's blood on him.
• 24:08
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 24:09
  And I think that this is one problem where I I don't like how
• 24:13
  you cut away to this scene and it goes on for too long.
• 24:16
  I think between Fenderman talking and then Fenderman
• 24:19
  dying. It's like, no, like that.
• 24:21
  That's not really how it should have been done.
• 24:23
  I don't know. Yeah, I, I, I'm.
• 24:27
  Sorry, I was thinking of something else then.
• 24:29
  I'm not going to say it. Mark Tyler just bent over.
• 24:33
  The second she walked out of that room, I was like, what is
• 24:36
  going on? See, that's look.
• 24:38
  Look how high the camera is here in the set.
• 24:40
  It really does feel big. Yeah, and and.
• 24:43
  Just we're back in the night time now.
• 24:45
  Night. Yes, and it's great then.
• 24:47
  I think. I love that.
• 24:48
  It just looks brilliant, like the smoke machine is doing great
• 24:52
  work, like I'm really, really enjoying it.
• 24:55
  How much is the dry ice man? Why we need a lot.
• 24:59
  Okay, I do love that the atmospherics when she starts
• 25:03
  rising and the and the the overlay of the makeup is.
• 25:08
  It is really good. I'm slightly the the oh, what do
• 25:12
  they call it? You know how they do the eyes.
• 25:16
  Like over the eyelids? Yeah, and it's like I sometimes
• 25:19
  it works, sometimes it doesn't. And I think there are ways of
• 25:22
  doing it, but I quite like it in Keeper of Tracking where she's
• 25:27
  like don't look, could my eye. Yeah, but that is really good.
• 25:34
  This I feel like it doesn't quite work as well.
• 25:37
  I feel like it could have been subtler and and, but it's.
• 25:40
  Just the way she smiles. Though but it's the smile is
• 25:43
  great and she's. Pointing at people and saying
• 25:45
  yes, kill that person, you know, like.
• 25:48
  And that looks amazing, like you.
• 25:49
  Look at this, at the We can't hear the music now, but Oh no,
• 25:52
  no, I can't. But I know the music.
• 25:55
  Yeah, and it's really great, that kind of orchestral.
• 25:58
  It's really, really good. And the build up here.
• 26:01
  So we've we've killed Fendelman. She's turning into a monster.
• 26:05
  They're going, Oh my God, there's something coming up up
• 26:08
  the corridor. I mean, it's just ramping up.
• 26:11
  It's great. It's it.
• 26:12
  Yeah, it. Look at that.
• 26:13
  Horrible. Oh, it's theoretically, it's
• 26:16
  really, really good. And then that, yeah, then the
• 26:18
  the slug tail comes in and it's like, I've not.
• 26:20
  Seen that much gunk exude from somebody in years?
• 26:26
  But it but it is a really interesting design.
• 26:28
  I I like it. It's a sort of lamp.
• 26:30
  Interesting. Is that what?
• 26:32
  You're out it. Actually, Lamprey is right.
• 26:35
  It really does. Yeah, it's, it's that, it's,
• 26:37
  it's, it is nasty. And like I say, in still images,
• 26:40
  looks great. One of the 90s annuals I think
• 26:44
  had a picture of it that looked amazing.
• 26:46
  Like it looked really, really good.
• 26:48
  Much used shot of Tom and the fendar in the fact where he's
• 26:52
  sort of looking really horror struck.
• 26:54
  Yeah, which is really effective. I've I've always loved the I I
• 26:59
  can understand anyone that rips the piss out of them.
• 27:01
  They do look like enormous sort of carapace Cox with bizarre
• 27:07
  bits of passersby and mache sort of flying out of their mouths.
• 27:11
  But the idea, the idea of the sort of disgusting serpent
• 27:17
  creature that's going to come down and just gobble you up.
• 27:20
  Yeah, yeah, it is great. Some of the I'm just thinking
• 27:24
  they're just looking at the names on the like the design,
• 27:27
  the design and the lighting I think really need like what's
• 27:32
  the word extra? Praise.
• 27:36
  Yeah, I mean, they are. But in particular, I just think
• 27:39
  it's got some of the best lit scenes in the whole of Doctor
• 27:42
  Who. Basically that bit, the bits
• 27:44
  with the light box with with Colby and Fendelman having their
• 27:48
  conversation, but also with Thea looking at the skull like it's
• 27:51
  really great. But then like, look again at the
• 27:55
  Rebus operation. Do you remember the catacombs?
• 27:58
  All with candles. Brilliant, like incredible.
• 28:01
  And some of them. If if he's not the most creative
• 28:04
  director, maybe he's one of the more atmospheric ones.
• 28:06
  Well, I also think he does. Yeah, atmospheric is definitely
• 28:09
  the word. But also I think he does.
• 28:12
  He can show scale in a way that not everyone can.
• 28:17
  But those cattle games, especially when they first
• 28:19
  arrive, they look spacious. And then even the way he does
• 28:24
  the courtyard scenes in real look like that, that you can see
• 28:28
  that they kind of that it carries on in the background.
• 28:30
  Like, I think that's done really well on what must have been
• 28:34
  absolutely tiny sets. I mean, yeah, no money as well.
• 28:38
  Yeah. And I think he does a really
• 28:39
  good job. Yeah, this seller set is is
• 28:42
  great. I'm just looking at the picture
• 28:43
  that the iPlayer like chooses as the it's just huge with the
• 28:47
  cultists surrounding fit. Like it looks great.
• 28:49
  It's really well laid out. The way that you've got one in
• 28:54
  this picture, it's like you've got Colby, you've got Fendelman,
• 28:56
  and then you've got Style in the background and Fear in the
• 28:58
  middle. It looks brilliant.
• 28:59
  Like it looks really, really good.
• 29:00
  I think it's visually, I think it's really, really strong.
• 29:03
  And I don't think it gets enough praise for that.
• 29:07
  Like, I think people don't. I don't tend.
• 29:09
  To be a bit of a neglected story.
• 29:11
  I. I yeah, I don't think people can
• 29:13
  ever really pinpoint why they don't like it when they go for
• 29:18
  it. Yeah, absolutely.
• 29:21
  Well, I mean, I suppose the question throughout this episode
• 29:23
  with is Are you ready to watch a load of sticky willies run about
• 29:27
  the place attacking the Doctor and Leela?
• 29:29
  Let's go Sticky Willy time.