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The Fertile Friend: Part II · Love and Science Fertility

• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Love and Science podcast.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: This is week two of our friendship series, where we try to get to the bottom of how two people who are at different stages of their family building journey can be friends with each other and can understand each other and can hold space for each other.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: So last week if you haven't already listened to that episode, we talked about the perspective of the person with infertility or who's on the fertility journey or who has had losses and what it's like to be them and what they really need to find their way through.
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: So if you haven't listened to that episode, please do go back and listen.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of great wisdom in there and I think that will make this episode make more sense.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Okay, so thinking about the perspective of the friend who is not infertile, right?
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Some things I hear from those friends are you know, why is my friend so distant and cold, meaning the one who was on the fertility journey?
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: What did I say wrong?
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: I was just trying to help, and you know.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Then she got all offended.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Why can't she just be happy for me?
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: It's going to happen for her too, sometime.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Why won't she come to my shower?
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: And then, ultimately, I've lost a friend, and I think what is so striking is that people in both sides of this dyad right, they both feel like they've lost a friend, and so my hope is for us to just call out that infertility is hard not just on intimate partnerships, but it's also hard on friendships, especially when one person is getting pregnant, being, you know, sort of growing their family, moving on, so to speak, and then the other person is stuck pregnant, being, you know, sort of growing their family, moving on, so to speak, and then the other person is stuck on this fertility journey with the blood tests and the ultrasounds and the treatments and the appointments and that whole reality that that is, and when that gap is not being bridged, it can just be incredibly painful.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: So that's really the goal is for this episode to say, okay for the person who is not on a fertility journey, what do they need to know so that they can best support the person who is on the fertility journey?
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: So I came up with five things, of course, because last episode I had five things and it's a nice front number and I think we can hang our hat on those things and think about how we might be able to implement them in this scenario.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: So the first thing that the person without infertility needs to know is how to help and be supportive.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: And sometimes, you know, that's just a straightforward question like hey, I know you're on the fertility journey.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: How can I be most helpful to you right now?
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: What do you need?
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Do you want to go for a walk?
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Do you want to have a session where you just like vent about everything that's going on?
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: How can I be most supportive to you right now?
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Understanding that that person may actually say I think I need some space from you, my pregnant friend, because it's just really hard to see your pregnancy, and that's what I really want right now.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: So I think, asking the question because it's not going to be the same for every single person, right, people have different needs, right?
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: I know somebody who really did want some check-ins about the fertility journey and I think you know her friend was like afraid to ask, you know, and check in.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: And then the person on the fertility journey said you know, I really want some more support because I'm feeling kind of lonely over here and nobody's really checking in and I think they're scared to ask.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: So I think you know, asking that question of your friend with infertility, like how can I help and be supportive?
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: Then again that puts the person who's on the fertility journey in the driver's seat and then you know, then they can sort of give some suggestions or say what they need.
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: The second thing that the person without infertility needs to know is that infertility is really hard on friendships and that the true friendships, the friendships that are grounded in love, that are grounded in respect, that are grounded in communication and vulnerability, those friendships will stand the test of time.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: But it does take some vulnerability, it does take some hard conversations, because otherwise my experience is that people just keep missing each other, and so it can be very vulnerable for a person on the fertility journey to tell their friend, hey, these things I don't really want to hear about your three-year-old anymore, or their birthday party, and like it's just, you know, all this talk about kids is really triggering for me.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Um, but also, you know the person who is fertile.
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: It sort of takes a little bit of thick skin to say like, okay, I'm not taking this personally, I love you, I support you and I can honor that request, right.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: So just sort of calling out that infertility is hard on friendships.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Everybody goes through this and everybody, if they care about each other, will need to find a way through.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: And the third thing, that people who are not on a fertility journey, who tend to be more fertile and have a friend on a fertility journey, the thing that they need to know is how to hold space.
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: Now I will say I don't think this is something I really learned until I was in coaching school, because as a physician, I was always taught you diagnose a problem, you fix the problem, you move on right Problem solution.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: And I think a lot of us who are in medicine, who like to take on challenges, who are kind of movers and shakers and drivers, we're fixers.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: We like to, you know, sort of hear somebody if they're having a problem, we give them advice, we fix the problem.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Because I think there can be this like inherent discomfort in not fixing the problem, like maybe we can't find a diagnosis and then we can't fix the problem.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: Then that becomes like this shameful thing there's something wrong about us, right Again, I don't believe that's true, but I think sometimes we make our experiences mean that right.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: So like if we can't fix a problem, then we're a personal failure.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: So we tell ourselves these stories.
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: And so I think, in terms of understanding that, like infertility is a big, complex experience, there are sort of things that cannot be fixed with the advice from a friend.
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: I think hopefully somebody has their REI who is knowledgeable and evidence-based and supportive and really kind of helping to guide the friend with infertility through their journey.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: You know, I do this as a coach.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: I listen and I hold space, I meet people where they are, I figure out what they need, but I do not try to fix the problem.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: I do not tell people what to do.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I help people tap into their own inner wisdom so that they can come up with their best solutions themselves.
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: And so I think that when anybody ever tries to tell me what to do or they try to solve my problems and I'm not really looking for advice, I kind of find it very offensive.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I don't know about you guys, but I'm just like, hey, I was just here to vent, I wasn't here for you to tell me what to do, right?
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: So holding space is really it's basically listening, allowing, nurturing.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Sometimes it's silence actually, because we need to hold safe space for another person and whatever comes up in that space.
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: That's, that's the beauty of the friendship.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Right, it's, it's, it's not like, okay, you know, problem solution.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: If, if, hey, if I ever want somebody like to tell me what to do in a situation, I'm going to say, hey, can we troubleshoot this together?
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: But so much of the fertility journey is just these complex emotions, and if a person is lucky enough to have a friend who can listen non-judgmentally, it can make all the difference in the world.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: So, especially if you're a physician who has a friend who's on the fertility journey, just hear me out.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: You do not need to fix their situation, you do not need to tell them what to do.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Please just listen, hold space for them and let them know that you're there for them and let them tell you what they need, okay.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: The fourth thing that people who are not struggling with infertility need to know is that their words might sting and that if they have hurt the person who's on the fertility journey, that they can genuinely apologize and just be present in that that pain.
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: So you know it's, it's one of those things like.
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: So, for instance, right now I have a hand that is healing.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: My, my actual palm is healing, because many of you know I'm a long distance runner and I was running on a unfamiliar path with a route, and I tripped about two weeks ago and I did, like the super woman, dive and I'm okay Thank God I don't think I broke anything or anything, but both of my palms got skinned and my knee got skinned and so now I am in the healing phase.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: So I say this because I have been fascinated with this healing of my skin and my body over the last two weeks because, left to its own devices, it is healing, it's coming back together.
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: Two weeks because, left to its own devices, it is healing, it's coming back together.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: And especially when you have several layers of skin that are off of your body, right, like that's, your first line of protection is that skin.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: And so you know, for this last two weeks, when anything grazes that area, it has been exquisitely painful, like water or salt water or hydrogen peroxide or whatever it is, and it just makes me realize how much that protective coat of the thick skin on my palm is protective and prevents me from feeling pain.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: I tried to go to Orange Theory and I was trying to do push-ups and I'm like man.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: That hurts.
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: Right, because I didn't have that outer layer protection.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: It's the same way on the fertility journey right, because I didn't have that outer layer protection.
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: It's the same way on the fertility journey, right?
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: When our many first lines of defenses are stripped away by the bad news, by the feelings of hopelessness and despair, by the exhaustion that is the fertility journey, because it takes sometimes months and years and countless appointments and needles, and all of that Like, when all those first lines of defense are gone.
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: Even the slightest word, right, just like the water running over the palm.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: Even the slightest word of like oh, did you know?
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: So-and-so is pregnant.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: Or, oh, you know, are you going to so-and-so's baby shower?
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: Oh, you know, when are you guys going to?
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: You know, have the baby or like whatever it is that doesn't just hurt.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: And so, just realizing that, you know we need to be extra sensitive, that our words matter and I again I'm putting myself on the non-infertile side of this kind of for the sake of explanation but taking responsibility when that hurt has occurred is so very important because, you know, when we see somebody in pain, especially if it's our good friend, you know we didn't mean to cause that.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: But if it happens we have to apologize.
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Or I think it's a good idea to apologize if it's in our hearts to do so.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: So really just saying I want to genuinely apologize.
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: I hurt you, I want to do better and I want to be a very good friend to you.
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: I think that's super important.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: The fifth thing that somebody without infertility should know if they have a friend on the fertility journey and I promise you every single person does is that your friend is doing their best.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: So, like I said, this person is most likely trying to be a busy professional out in the world.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: They are trying to run a household, you know, with all that entails.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: They are trying to keep up with fertility treatments and appointments and next steps and deal with feelings and hear bad news.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: And you know, I had a you know sort of a client the other day.
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: I asked her what her news was and she said oh, I wasn't able to get it today because I was scrubbing the OR all day.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: And it's like you know, it's one of those things where it's a really, really, really rough journey and we are all doing our best and so just understanding that if your friend doesn't seem as present as possible or as perky as possible I hate that word but still, or, as you know, able to sort of celebrate joy with you if your kid has a birthday or if you announce a pregnancy or something like that.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: They are truly doing their best.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: It's not a personal thing, they're not trying to spite you.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: They're really doing the best they can in a very painful experience, and so just remember that your friend is doing their best.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: You know you do your best and find a way to see each other to come together to hold space for each other, because I promise that there is a way through.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: I said this in the last episode too, but it's like when somebody has something that you don't have, it is really really hard to be genuinely happy and excited for them in that moment.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: And I mean, you know, even if it's something like hey, like, say, I want a certain promotion or a job and my friend gets it, like you know I might be able to be happy for them, but like, probably somewhere in my heart is, like man, I really wish I had gotten that job, gotten the promotion, et cetera.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: The stakes are so much higher with family building.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: And so you know, say like I want nothing more than to have a child and my best friend announces a pregnancy, like that's a very complex emotion because I want to be happy for that person I really do but it's really hard for me to find it in my heart to, to, to support that person, to be happy for them, because that's what I want.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: And it's hard to get over that jealousy and that resentment.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I use the example on the last episode of like being a divorce person and soon after the divorce seeing happy couples and weddings and finding that very triggering and you might say, gosh, that's just a wedding, like how can that be bad?
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: That's actually a good thing.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: But if the raw spot is, you know, sort of fear that love will not come to you or that you might never have that companionship or whatever it is, you know it's just, it's a sensitive, vulnerable space and just understanding again that it's not personal, that everyone's doing their best and we're all trying to find a way through.
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: So again, in summary, so what are the five things that a person without infertility needs to know to support a friend who is on a fertility journey?
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: The first one is those tailored how to be helpful and supportive in that for that particular person at that particular point in time, which again takes a sensitive conversation.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: But it's not one size fits all.
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: Not everybody needs the same thing.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: So just sort of knowing and asking how to be helpful and supportive.
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: The second thing is to know that infertility is hard on friendships in addition to intimate relationships, and so you know this is a very common thing that people deal with and that it is able to be overcome, but with some outside of the box thinking and some intense sensitivity.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: The third thing is to know how to hold space without fixing or reassuring or any of that stuff.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: No-transcript professional who likes to fix problems.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Maybe you're an engineer, just like.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Put that aside briefly, so that you can like not make anything worse and let the person find their own solutions, with you being their support and their guide.
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: The fourth thing that people need to know who are supporting a friend with infertility is that their words might sting at times, even in a seemingly sort of more benign situation.
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: Just being aware of that, atoning for that, repairing and moving forward Super, super important.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: And the fifth thing is that we are all doing our best.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: Your friend with infertility is doing their best.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: It is a really, really hard journey to walk, and so just holding space, holding love, understanding that if something, if they're not as happy for you, as it might seem that they should be.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: You know, just just know they're doing their best and that it's not personal.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: But it's really, really, really hard to undergo this process and just to see countless friends and family members announcing pregnancies, having babies, having baby showers and all those things, and so think of it kind of like a grief, like a death, and if you can look at it like that, I think it starts to make a lot more sense the sorts of things that are needed.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Okay, well, I hope this served people who are on both sides of that dyad.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Please spread this knowledge.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: I think it is not something that people understand, but I think if we did understand this, we would be a lot more fluent in relationships.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: We could be a lot more supportive of each other.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: More fluent in relationships, we could be a lot more supportive of each other.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I think we would be able to come together more often than split apart as this process often does for friendships.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: So, with that, I love you, I will see you next week and until the next time, let me know what you think, and I'd love to start some discussion about friendships and how we can all support each other a little better.
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Bye.