Latest / Brian Thomas / Judge Christopher McDowell - Riot in the court house

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Judge Christopher McDowell - Riot in the court house · Brian Thomas

• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Seven to six pair of fifty five pair CIT Talk
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: Station and Brian Siminos are the here with in studio
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Judge Christopher McDowell and Chris McDowell's going to give us
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: a loadown on what's going on with the Hamilton County
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Court House and a little insight on what it's like
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: to be a judge sitting in the Hamilton County Court
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: of Common.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: Please.
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: He's been there since twenty twenty five. His term ends
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: this year. He is on the ballot. There is a
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: primary coming up, but he's running unopposed on the Republican
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: side of the Ledger. So Chris McDowell will invariably be
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: on the ballot in November. And he's one of the
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: good ones folks. He gets bonds, he understands the criminal
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: justice system, and of course he understands the concept of
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: the justice system being used for deterrence. If you deserve
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: to be sentenced and put away for a long time,
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Judge McDowell's going to do that, most notably an area
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: of fentanyl, as I learned from him. Judge McDowell, great
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: to have you here today. Thanks for making the time
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: to come in.
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: It's great to be here. And by the way you
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: look good.
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Oh thanks man, you say that. I so so of
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: my listeners. I won't be in on Monday and Tuesday
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: next week. Today is the first of the two days
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: of treatment I get, so I'm going in for my chemo,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: my retuction MAB treatment today, another chemo treatment tomorrow, and
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: for the last several treatments, it's wiped me out. So
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: Monday and Tuesday we're gonna have who's filling and Dan
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Carroll's filling in for me. So thank you for bringing
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: that up. It's a kind thing for you to say.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: And God bless anybody out there struggling with cancer and
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: their families. If the ripple effect is not cool, let
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: us pivot back. The impetus behind the discussion we're going
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: to start out with this morning was the brawl that
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: broke out inside of Judge Winkler's courtroom. It was a
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: sentencing hearing and apparently the family of the victim was
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: not real happy and believe the sentence is handed out
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: by Judge Winkler was lenient twelve to seventeen and a
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: half years in connection with I believe a murder.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it was a murder case.
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  Speaker 1: So the family reacts and then a brawl breaks out
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  Speaker 1: and it's bills over into the hallway. You were right
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: next door, basically right down the hall. Just explain what
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: you had to deal with, and then how this is
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: sort of representative of a broader problem with lawlessness in
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: the courthouse.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, if we go back to a week before this brawl,
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: I had contacted the Sheriff's office and told them that
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: we needed greater security. The day before this happened, I
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: met with the Sheriff's office and I said, something's going
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: to happen. We need more security in this courthouse. In
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: the Common Police court room. What a lot of people
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: don't know is day in, day out, there is no
• 2:30
  Speaker 3: security in the Common Police court You go downstairs where
• 2:33
  Speaker 3: they're doing traffic cases, there is always a bailiff there
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: in those courtrooms. In my courtroom, the only time there's
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: really security is when someone's bringing down an inmate, and
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: that deputy's duty is to the inmate that he's brought down.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they bring him into the courtroom and they stand
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: there and wait for the proceedings to get over and
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: take him back.
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  Speaker 3: Right, And what happened in this day is I heard
• 2:55
  Speaker 3: a ruckus in the hallway about a half hour before
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: the brawl, and people were telling me that, you know,
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: there was a murder case down there. The families was
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: in the hall ware in the hallway, they were yelling
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: at the defendant. And then half hour later, just all
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: heck broke loose. I had an inmate in my courtroom
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: with a deputy, and I could hear his radio go
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: off that there was an emergent. They had pushed the
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: panic button in Judge Winkler's courtroom, and so all the
• 3:21
  Speaker 3: deputies were responding. And I asked the deputy in my room,
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: do you need to respond that to that? And he said, well,
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  Speaker 3: I can't because I have this person here. I've got
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: to watch this person. And I said, you want to
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: take him back? He said yes, So I allowed him
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: to take it back. Then I went out into the
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  Speaker 3: hallway to see what was going on, and I saw
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  Speaker 3: about forty people. Forty people engaged in a fight in
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  Speaker 3: the hallway, and I saw deputies just streaming down the hallway,
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  Speaker 3: other police department agencies. Everybody was responding. I saw police
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: officers putting handcuffs on people dragging him out of the fight.
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  Speaker 3: It was an all on brawl and then what happens
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  Speaker 3: that spilled out into the street. They had to close
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  Speaker 3: two streets in front of the courthouse down, and then
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  Speaker 3: they closed the courthouse down, locked it down.
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  Speaker 1: I Joe Trekkers in my head said, you didn't hear
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  Speaker 1: that in the news. Well, that's why my reaction is silence.
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  Speaker 1: I had no idea that it was that bad.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I'll tell you one other thing. There was a
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  Speaker 3: homicide detective who was testifying in that murder case and
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: he was hurt. He struck his head and he got
• 4:24
  Speaker 3: a concussion, and he was expected to testify that same
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: day in another murder case in another courtroom. And that
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  Speaker 3: other murder case they were picking a jury, they were
• 4:33
  Speaker 3: just about to swear the jury in when they had
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: to call off the whole case because that homicide detective
• 4:40
  Speaker 3: was so injured that he could not testify in the
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: other murder case.
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  Speaker 1: Well, in addition to shutting the entire courthouse down, yes,
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  Speaker 1: that proceeding was not going to go forward. So it
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  Speaker 1: is this illustrative of a broader problem. I mean, I
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: think this compared to when I used to work there,
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: and we're going back a lot of you as judge,
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: it was the early eighties of or for Judge Panieto
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: in the fourth floor in the Domestic Relations court, which
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: is no longer there. But I never even had a
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: sense of concern at all about safety in the courthouse.
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  Speaker 1: It was like, to me, the last place in the
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  Speaker 1: world anybody would want to start getting violent or you know,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: committing some sort of crime, because there are a lot
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: of sheriff's deputies walking around the building there. As you
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: point out, they're there for a variety of different reasons.
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  Speaker 1: But you had an unbelievable sense of security. I guess
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: those days are gone.
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  Speaker 3: They're entirely gone. The people have no respect for the law,
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  Speaker 3: They have no respect for themselves, they have no respect
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  Speaker 3: to our institutions of government in any way. It's people
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  Speaker 3: who are sitting in the gallery. They'll just stand up
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  Speaker 3: and start yelling, yelling at me, yelling at the other
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: people in the courtroom, and I have to throw them
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  Speaker 3: out of the courtroom.
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  Speaker 2: Can you find them in contempt?
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  Speaker 3: I can find people in contempt. One of the reasons
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  Speaker 3: I went out into the hallway is I have the
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: authority to, you know, just basically summer summarily find someone
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: in contempt. And I can hold you up for up
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: to six months.
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  Speaker 2: Have you had to invoke that power.
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  Speaker 3: Now, I'm not yet. Uh. Usually when I yell at
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  Speaker 3: people and kick them out of the courtroom, that's that's sufficient.
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  Speaker 2: And well that still works.
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  Speaker 1: I'm shocked that that still works, your honor, I really am,
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  Speaker 1: because if they have enough lack of respect for you
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: and the courtroom proceedings generally, then I can't imagine you know,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: you're you're yelling and at them would have any impact.
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: Well, and that that was my concern is someday there's
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: not that's not gonna happen, and someone's gonna come at
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  Speaker 3: me and there's no one between that gallery and me
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: unless there just happens to be a deputy in the room.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you know, I do remember when I worked for
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: the for Judge Panioto, one of the magistrates actually pulled
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: out a firearm headed in his top drawer. So I
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: know some of the judges at least are armed, and
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  Speaker 1: I can certainly understand the reason why they might want
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: to be. You never won't have to to use that
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: as a last resort, but if you're if you're threatening
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  Speaker 1: with a violent circumstance where your life is imperils you
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: reasonably perceive it to be, you are allowed to do that,
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  Speaker 1: and if you don't have enough SHARE's deputies around to
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  Speaker 1: help you out and avoid that kind of thing. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: it seems to me maybe a moment in time, given
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: how unruly folks are in the court system, we moment
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  Speaker 1: in time away from something.
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  Speaker 2: Like that happening. Anyway.
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  Speaker 1: Do you mentioned in our conversation off air the juvenile
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: courts a real problem within the juvenile courts generally, So
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: what's going on over the juvenile courts?
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  Speaker 3: Well, there's no repercussions for people's actions. These juveniles are
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: out committing crimes on our streets, they get apprehended. When
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: they do get apprehended, they're taken to the juvenile court
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  Speaker 3: and then you know, they're given an essay to write
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  Speaker 3: first for violent offense, or they're just told to come
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: back later. They're not getting consequences for their actions. Twenty twenty,
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  Speaker 3: which is a juvenile holding center is practically empty. They
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  Speaker 3: just are not incarcerating juveniles at all. In juveniles know this.
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  Speaker 3: They're not stupid, they know they know there's no consequences
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  Speaker 3: for their actions. Consequence at home and there's no consequences
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: in the court system for the way they behave.
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  Speaker 1: Well, and this is what the left wingers, the reform advocates,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: argue that, well, we can't give a juvenile a record
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  Speaker 1: because that'll render him in err HER's case, maybe incapable
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  Speaker 1: of getting employment. That record will follow them throughout their
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: entire life. Well, you and I both know you can
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: have those records expunge at some point, if, for example,
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  Speaker 1: they take and they learn the lesson from being processed
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: through the justice system and suffering a consequence for it,
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  Speaker 1: maybe they won't do it again, and then they'll be
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: worthy of having the record expunge down the road.
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  Speaker 3: Well, in addition, juvenile records are sealed, sealed, sealed, They're
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: sealed from the very beginning.
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  Speaker 2: So I see that's the development I was not aware.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, so once you turn eighteen, it's the employer can't
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  Speaker 3: look you up on the computer like you could an
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  Speaker 3: adult and see the juvenile record, and so they're sealed
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  Speaker 3: from the very beginning. So there's really not a good
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: reason to not have a consequence in juvenile court.
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you certainly don't want to perpetuate that. What I
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: wish was a myth that there will be no concert
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: quin there are clearly no consequences for them and ergo
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: no incentive to follow the law.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then they grow up and they end up
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: in my courtroom where there is a consequence.
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: Huge consequence. Yeah.
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: You want to be in front of Chris McDowell and
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: on a criminal rap. Oh no you don't. Let's talk
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: about that because I know you have a few murder
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: cases on your docket. This is frightening stuff, folks. We're
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: going to continue with Judge McDowell after these brief words,
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: beginning with foreign exchange. I love foreign Exchange head Austin
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: from me talk station sevent nineteen videbov kc DE talk station,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: Happy Friday, Eve, you're doing some veterans love the bottom
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: of the art at Matt and Marias returns to Bets
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: and Bruce gives some insight on the information on the
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: bourbon raffle. In the meantime, Judge Christopher McDowell he is
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: on Hamilton County Cortacomma Police bench and he'll be there
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: until November one. We'll have an opportunity to vote him
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: back into the bench.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: You want him there.
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: He's tough on crime and he understands the realities and
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: the purpose of bonds. You got a lot of I
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: will call woke judges down there my label, not yours, judge.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: It always blows my mind when a recid of it,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: someone who has an extensive criminal background ends up in
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: front of one of these woke judges, as I like
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: to call them, and they're issued either a own recognizance
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: bond or a very very low cash bond. You know,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: if you one thousand dollars ten percent, you got to
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: put one hundred bucks down and you got a felony
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: rap sheet. You were caught with a weapon while under disability,
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: and then you're not allowed to have a weapon. How
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: does somebody like that get on the street. Don't they
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: represent a threat to the public at large as well
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: as a flight risk all that absolutely.
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: One of the things that I've started doing, and one
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: of the things people don't understand is the bonds are
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: initially set by the municipal court judges. So it's not
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: until after someone is indicted on the felony that they
• 10:40
  Speaker 3: come up to the Common Police Court and at that
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: time and only at that time, can I set a bond.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: So you saw this shooting, at this nightclub. That person
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: has not been indicted yet, so the municipal court judge
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: sets that bond and I have no authority over that
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: bond until the person's been indicted. It used to be
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: that the common police registrate would set the bond once
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: they were indicted. Now there's a couple of us more
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: socially conscious of violent criminals. We set our own bonds.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: I bring them into this morning. I have two cases
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: in which I'm going to be doing the arraignments, and
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: I'm going to be setting the bonds personally because these
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: people are on my docket. I'm responsible for these cases,
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: and bonds need to be appropriate, particularly for violent offenders.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: No question about it. And you know, talking about your
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: personal docket, frightening figure. You have thirteen murders on your
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: plate right now, cases over which you are going to
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: be presiding.
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: That's right, thirteen and some of them have been lingering
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: on the docket for years.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I asked you about that. I said, well, how
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: old are they because thirteen murders, this could have all
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: been recent. But you're only one of.
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: Sixteen sixteen judges.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: So you take that thirteen number in your times at
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: by sixteen and that's an approximation of how many murder
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: cases are pending in Hamilton County right now.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: The backlog seems extraordinary, and the prosecutor's office has a
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: tough road to ho in proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: That takes a lot of work, and I think most
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: people really don't have any idea about all the prep
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: work that goes in to trying one of those cases.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: From the initial hot let's say homicide, the gathering of
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: evidence and all the information about the police department, the
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: interviews that takes a long time, that has to be
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: handed over to the prosecutor's office. They have to put
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: it all together in a format that's understandable. You got
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: to go in front of the jury and address all
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: the defense arguments. It's a tough process. And I just
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: wonder because we often see, you know, plea deals reached
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: and you're like, wait a second, how in the hell
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: on that heinous crime did they end up with such
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: a sweetheart plea deal? And I had an out loud
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: question to ask you, which is our prosecutors sort of
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: maybe given up? It is a lot of work, and
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: isn't it easier to just sort of all right, I'll
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: negotiate a deal with the defense lawyer, and yeah, it
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: will be a little bit lean, but that's one less
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: case on my plate.
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And the other thing you've seen in the prosecutor's
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: office is the turnover and prosecutors. This current prosecutor has
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: fired a number of very senior, very complicated cases that
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: had very good veterans. And so then what happens is
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: you've had they've been working on a case for a
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: year and a half, two years, and now a whole
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: new team comes in and they want to start all over.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: And so this is one of the reasons that these
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: cases have been dragging out.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Now, I guess I have to sort of raise the spector.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Why were they let go? Is this a disagreement over
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: perhaps prosecutorial philosophy. Are they maybe a little bit or
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: were they maybe a little bit more hardline and interested
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: in bringing about justice and seeing that justicees served. They
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: aren't part of the world culture because County Pillage seems
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: to be I.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: Think all of the above. Some of these people have
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: been let go, and we have no idea the reason
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: why they were let go. O.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Oh, nobody knows why police Chief dj was let go
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: either there, Judgment.
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's the same thing. It's a turnover. It's now
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: the Democrats are in charge and the Republican prosecutors who
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: are left over from the old administration, who have the
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: experience in these cases are being let go left, right
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: and center and leaving us in a total lurch.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: Brick in my heart this morning. You're judgment's cold water?
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: Does reality? Well need to go about it? And I
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: going back and I this really irked me. You mentioned
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: the police officer that got injured in the brawl that
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: took place next to you and Judge Winkler's court room,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: the initial topic of conversation, and that he wouldn't have
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: been able to testify in a try because his head
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: had been injured and was fairly substantial. That was a
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: direct consequence of the brawl. You asked the Sheriff's department, asked,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: I guess the sheriff about this? Were there any injuries
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: and what was charmage mcguffey's response to that.
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: The Sheriff's office issue the office date. They issued an
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: office statement saying no one had been injured in the brawl,
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: no one, when they knew for a fact that that
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: homicide detective had been injured. And so someone that said
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: to me, well, they say that no one's injured. I said, no,
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: I know this homicide detective has been injured because this
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: other murder case had to be postponed.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: And you say the sheriff's department was aware of the injury.
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, they were aware of the injury.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: So the statement from the sheriff's office, you know, let
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: me just boil it down. My perception of that is
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: it was a lie, completely contrary to the known facts.
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: An officer was in fact injured and they said no
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: one was injured. All right, I appreciate that we can
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: take comfort in the Sheriff's department and providing us with
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: well accurate information. Judge Chris McDowell, it has been a
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: real distinct pleasure he having you here in the fifty
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: five Carcy Morning Show studio.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: I wish you well.
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: I know you don't have to worry about the primary,
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: but we'll see what we can do between now and
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: November to keep people's minds on you and recognize that
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: elections have consequences, and we don't want war judges, and
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: we certainly don't want woke prosecutors. We'll have another chance
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: to deal with the prosecutors officers at some point. Judge
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: McDowell a real pleasure, sir. Keep up the great work,
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: thank you very much. Oh and if you're a fentanel dealer,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: you're in for a world of hurt if you end
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: up in Judge McDowell's courtroom. I'm just letting you know
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: right now.