Latest / Beyond Fulfillment Podcast / Where Hits Are Born Before Hollywood Finds Them: How Wattpad Become the World's Biggest Story Lab

Transcript

Where Hits Are Born Before Hollywood Finds Them: How Wattpad Become the World's Biggest Story Lab · Beyond Fulfillment Podcast

• 0:00
  Foreign.
• 0:07
  Welcome to Beyond Fulfillment.
• 0:09
  Thank you for having me.
• 0:10
  Yes.
• 0:11
  So excited to talk to you.
• 0:12
  So we are here at Bookcon.
• 0:16
  It is Saturday, April 18th.
• 0:19
  18Th.
• 0:20
  Okay.
• 0:21
  I was just telling you, I've never been here before.
• 0:23
  I didn't know what to expect.
• 0:24
  The line is crazy.
• 0:26
  And we both talked before starting.
• 0:28
  I said, wow, no one reads anymore.
• 0:31
  I know.
• 0:31
  I joked about that as well.
• 0:33
  Yeah, I've never.
• 0:35
  I haven't been to a show in recent memory where there's been this much excitement from the crowd and people wanting to get in.
• 0:42
  So for our audience, whose entrepreneurs, startup founders may not have heard of you, can you just give us a quick backstory on who you are, just to set the stage?
• 0:53
  Yeah, of course.
• 0:53
  So I'm Alessandra Ferreri.
• 0:55
  I am the head of content at Wattpad.
• 0:57
  Wattpad is a social storytelling app that was founded in 2006.
• 1:01
  So we're coming up on our 20 year anniversary.
• 1:03
  And it was a startup in Toronto, Canada, first and foremost, and really just kind of exploded from there.
• 1:08
  It's been around for 20 years now.
• 1:11
  And so, yeah, I get to run the content department on wattpad, which is all about figuring out who our storytellers are, what our readers are interested in, where the trends are going, and just understanding, really the heartbeat of
• 1:22
  the platform.
• 1:23
  Okay.
• 1:24
  And present day, I believe Wattpad has 90 million users.
• 1:29
  Is that, Is that accurate?
• 1:30
  We have.
• 1:32
  We are a.
• 1:33
  Sorry.
• 1:35
  We are part of the Webtoon IP and creator ecosystem.
• 1:38
  So webtoon is a web comic platform and we are a web novel platform, and we have a combined 90 million.
• 1:43
  Okay, okay.
• 1:44
  Yeah.
• 1:44
  And you started with the company as an entry level.
• 1:47
  Entry level employee in 2015?
• 1:50
  Yeah, I did.
• 1:51
  Okay.
• 1:53
  When you did start.
• 1:54
  Right.
• 1:54
  Because you built out this.
• 1:57
  This department.
• 1:57
  Now that you're running the content department over the last decade or so, I mean, did you ever envision it getting like this big and becoming what it is today?
• 2:06
  I wasn't even thinking about that at the time.
• 2:08
  I think when you're like, entry level and you're just trying to get a job and figure out what you want to do with your life, you're kind of just taking anything that you can get.
• 2:14
  But I started at wattpad, like you said, as an entry level employee.
• 2:18
  I was doing community management, so I was still looking at the heartbeat of the platform.
• 2:22
  I was still looking at our readers and our writers in particular to figure out, you know, what is driving the platform.
• 2:27
  And now kind of full circle.
• 2:29
  I was able to now run that department and really, like, look at it more from like a leadership lens and see, okay, now that we know what the heartbeat is, how do we, you know, improve it for the
• 2:38
  better?
• 2:38
  You know, what do we lean into and how do we make sure that wattpad isn't just, you know, something that's been great for the last 20 years, but something that's amazing for the next 20 years of storytellers as
• 2:47
  well.
• 2:48
  Ah, okay.
• 2:49
  All right.
• 2:50
  And so wattpad does something very interesting too, where it's algorithm driven, where it's basically finding the trends kind of early.
• 2:59
  Like, can you talk about that and how that's impacted the platform?
• 3:02
  Yeah.
• 3:03
  Wattpad functions kind of like a social media platform in that it is algorithm based.
• 3:07
  So there are obviously signals that we look at when our users use the platform.
• 3:12
  So what are they reading, what are they interested in?
• 3:14
  Where are they engaging with content?
• 3:15
  We can also comment on stories.
• 3:17
  You kind of get that real time, real time reaction to stories.
• 3:20
  You can leave comments on your favorite author's page, but also in the story itself.
• 3:25
  It's kind of like back when you were live tweeting or reactions to things.
• 3:28
  You can kind of do that a version of that on wattpad when you're like live reacting to a story as you're reading it.
• 3:34
  So those are all really important signals for us to figure out what are people interested in and where, where like the appetites are flowing back and forth.
• 3:42
  So that's kind of like where the baseline is on our side.
• 3:45
  But then we also have a really strong community driven aspect where the community likes to engage in a really authentic, organic way on the platform.
• 3:52
  So while we have the algorithm on that, on one side, on the other side we have a whole bunch of communities that are popping up that are just engaging with each other in a real human, authentic way.
• 4:02
  So they're doing writing contests, they're, you know, reading each other's things and so they're creating profiles around different genres.
• 4:08
  So they're is also a very human element to wattpad as well, where they, you know, creators and writers kind of celebrate each other at the same time.
• 4:16
  So it's a little bit of mix of both.
• 4:18
  Okay, and I'm glad you mentioned community because you coined the term fanthropologist.
• 4:23
  Okay.
• 4:24
  I didn't coin that term.
• 4:25
  Let's.
• 4:25
  I don't want to take any credit for it, but I did hear that term and I think it's such, such a great term to like reflect sort of what we're doing here.
• 4:33
  We really can't look at community in a passive way.
• 4:36
  Especially when it comes to fan reactions, fandom, and how people engage with their stuff that they love.
• 4:42
  It really isn't a passive thing.
• 4:43
  It's a very participatory function.
• 4:45
  So we want to look at it like not just what's trending, but why it's trending, and really ask those, like, anthropological questions to make sure that we understand that, like, psychological need, not just the surface level trends or
• 4:56
  the surface level insights.
• 4:58
  How do we go a bit deeper and understand that more?
• 5:00
  So it's just a great time to really, you know, capture what we're trying to do on wattpad.
• 5:05
  It's not just about what's trending or what's going viral in the moment.
• 5:09
  It's about understanding where that virality is coming from and what it says about it.
• 5:13
  Okay, all right.
• 5:14
  And apologies for the AI said you coined that term, so.
• 5:17
  See, you can't believe everything you read on the AI.
• 5:21
  Okay.
• 5:22
  So, you know, at its core, right, the way people connect with, whether it's an author, a story.
• 5:29
  Right.
• 5:29
  And then, of course, community, like you said.
• 5:33
  How has your study of all that really impacted, I guess, your.
• 5:36
  Your work and your rise within Wattpad?
• 5:38
  I've been in Wattped for 10 years, and I've had many different roles in that time.
• 5:43
  So started out in community management, moved into acquisition and worked on the studio side to where we adapt stories for external formats, so movies, TV shows, publishing.
• 5:54
  So you're kind of looking at story from bang many different ways, I guess.
• 5:58
  But we always like to do a mix of art and science.
• 6:01
  When it comes down to kind of like the way our platform is a mix of art and science in a way, you know, we have the algorithms, we have that community element, that creative element.
• 6:07
  I try to bring that into the work that I do all the time.
• 6:10
  We want to look at those signals, we want to look at that data, but we also want to bring that human element and the broader picture into play, which is usually.
• 6:18
  Which is very helpful on that side.
• 6:20
  Okay.
• 6:21
  And wattpad has become really a feeder for.
• 6:25
  Of content to media giants like Netflix and Hulu and others.
• 6:30
  So what's it been like working in that.
• 6:32
  That part of the business and kind of dealing with those.
• 6:34
  Those entities?
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• 7:22
  It's always really positive when you see these bigger companies start to really look at our content and respect it for what it deserves to be respected.
• 7:30
  It's like a really great incubator for new voices, for new talent, for things that you might not see normally on pages or on screens.
• 7:38
  And so we kind of get to be these advocates for the, you know, everyday writer, for writers that are beginning their journey, that are experimenting, that might not fall into the particular formula or format that you might expect.
• 7:51
  But then all of a sudden you get these larger companies that come to us and they're like, oh, we're seeing that there's something going on here.
• 7:56
  There's trends that we're starting to reflect things that we're seeing off of the platform.
• 8:00
  What does that mean to you?
• 8:01
  So we kind of are always engaged in a dialogue with the traditional industries in that way.
• 8:06
  Publishers, entertainment companies, etc.
• 8:09
  I think it's really important from my perspective and from where I'm sitting, is to kind of maintain, just like protect our community as well in a way.
• 8:17
  Like, we don't have to be the exact same as a traditional industries.
• 8:21
  We don't have to follow the same formulas.
• 8:22
  It's important to have those alternative spaces for storytelling because that's often where you see some of those exciting hits that you never would have expected.
• 8:30
  So I think we want to always engage in a dialogue with places like Amazon, Disney and Hulu, Tubi, etc, but it's kind of, you know, a cyclical thing.
• 8:38
  Like they're looking for very different things at very different moments in time.
• 8:41
  But we're always around, always here to have that conversation and to chat about what we're seeing.
• 8:45
  Okay.
• 8:46
  And for, for authors on the platform too, that, you know, may feel like they're shouting into a void of 500 million stories right from like your seat and where you're at.
• 8:56
  What.
• 8:57
  What's some advice to them on how they could, you know, potentially stand out on webpack?
• 9:02
  Yeah.
• 9:02
  I think it's important to also recognize that writing is a grind like creating storytelling, world building, all that stuff.
• 9:07
  It's like hard work and it's.
• 9:09
  It takes a lot of commitment and a lot of energy to.
• 9:12
  And passion also to like really do that at any phase of your journey, whether you're a prolific writer, like a Stephen King, or you're just starting out, it really is always going to be a grind.
• 9:22
  So I think what I would recommend always is find your community.
• 9:25
  Find the people that, you know are encouraging you to keep writing.
• 9:27
  Because it's so easy to start something and then, you know, have it.
• 9:30
  Life gets in the way and then you stop.
• 9:32
  But really, like, getting to that finish line, you know, pushing yourself to finish, finish the story, to, like, really see it all the way through, that comes with the people that you surround yourself with.
• 9:40
  And so what's nice about wattpad is, you know, you can find those people, you can engage in contesting challenges and writing sprints.
• 9:46
  There's a huge community element to the platform, and it can make writing feel a little bit less solitary and a little less lonely.
• 9:53
  Ah, okay.
• 9:54
  No, that's a great point.
• 9:55
  And you're also a writer on wattpad.
• 9:58
  Yeah, you kind of have to be.
• 9:59
  I don't think it makes sense to, you know, be championing community, community like wattpad, but also not engage in it in a real way.
• 10:06
  And I love writing.
• 10:07
  I think it's always been the thing, a thing that I've loved in my life.
• 10:10
  And finding wattpad in my career has been a really amazing blessing.
• 10:14
  But also I want to keep engaging with them because it is a very special place to hang out.
• 10:19
  Okay.
• 10:20
  Any.
• 10:20
  Anything in particular you're working on right now or you want to talk about?
• 10:23
  I mean, I mostly do some fun stuff, so I have a couple fan fictions in my back pocket just to, you know, flex some of my muscles.
• 10:30
  But yeah, I like to engage and just try something out.
• 10:32
  I like to push myself.
• 10:33
  You know, writing can be a very vulnerable thing.
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  And just trying things out and seeing if it works, not taking myself too seriously.
• 10:39
  I think that's my.
• 10:40
  My M.O.
• 10:41
  Right now.
• 10:42
  Okay.
• 10:42
  Okay.
• 10:43
  And Wattpad also has something which we'll get into, like, the business of publishing, but I guess it's a pay per chapter model.
• 10:53
  Yeah, we do have some paid content, so we do have some stories that are in our originals pipeline, which are stories that you could unlock different chapters on via coins.
• 11:03
  Okay.
• 11:03
  Okay.
• 11:04
  So you mentioned how writing can be a grind and feel lonely and, and all that.
• 11:09
  So for.
• 11:09
  For entrepreneurs out there, because many of them, you know, have written a book per se.
• 11:14
  Right.
• 11:15
  Like, that's, that's a.
• 11:16
  A common thing in our world, but it's very different than making your living as a writer.
• 11:21
  What's the biggest misconception?
• 11:23
  Misconception people have about, like, building a career writing or in the publishing industry.
• 11:27
  I kind of think the misconception is it has to be a career.
• 11:30
  I think that there's always room for storytelling and there's always room for writing wherever you are in your life and whatever you decide to focus on, what Wahpen tries to do is just be a flexible tool and platform
• 11:40
  for anyone.
• 11:41
  But I've talked to so many entrepreneurs, so many people in tech who are creative writers.
• 11:45
  You know, they're writing horror novels and fantasy novels, or they're writing, you know, non fiction, memoirs, blogging, that kind of stuff.
• 11:51
  There's.
• 11:51
  We're all kind of storytellers at the end of the day.
• 11:54
  You don't have to necessarily be pushing to be like, I have to make a career out of this.
• 11:58
  I have to, you know, be traditional in that sense.
• 12:01
  You can be untraditional with your writing too, and let it fit into your life in a way that feels authentic to you.
• 12:06
  So I think that would be the main misconception, is let it fit into your life and then see where it takes you, because you might be surprised at, you know, what you get out of it.
• 12:14
  Okay.
• 12:15
  All right.
• 12:15
  And also, in your spare time, you're in.
• 12:19
  In a theater producer back in Toronto.
• 12:21
  Is that right?
• 12:22
  Yeah.
• 12:22
  So you really have researched me.
• 12:25
  That's awesome.
• 12:26
  Yeah, I mean, I always have kind of a side hustle on the go.
• 12:29
  I love theater.
• 12:30
  I grew up doing theater.
• 12:31
  So similarly to writing, it's just something that, you know, you have to have some work, life balance, you have to have some fun on the side.
• 12:36
  So I have done a lot of stuff in the Toronto theater kind of comedy scene.
• 12:41
  But, yeah, it's just like another version of storytelling, another way of seeing, like, how can we, you know, adapt a story, adapt an idea in some way?
• 12:49
  And so I like to get my hands dirty in that.
• 12:51
  In that way.
• 12:52
  So, you know, I'm always trying new formats, new things just to keep myself, you know, spry.
• 12:57
  Okay.
• 12:58
  Okay, cool.
• 12:59
  All right.
• 12:59
  And so we're here at Bookcon.
• 13:01
  What are you most excited for this year's Bookcon.
• 13:03
  Okay, so we just walked in like 10 minutes ago, and my whole face lit up and I've just been kind of spiraling around because it's just the energy here is incredible.
• 13:12
  There's so much excitement.
• 13:14
  There are so many amazing booths, so many amazing vendors.
• 13:16
  I am just excited to take it all in.
• 13:18
  This is my first year at bookcon as well, so I've really, like, left my day open to explore and see where the day takes me.
• 13:25
  But so far, it's a really delightful space.
• 13:28
  They've done an incredible job.
• 13:29
  So I'm just excited to soak it all in.
• 13:31
  Yeah, agreed.
• 13:32
  Okay.
• 13:32
  All right.
• 13:33
  And Alessandra, if people want to learn more about your work, Watpad or.
• 13:37
  Or just connect with you online, what's the best way people can reach out to you?
• 13:40
  I mean, probably on LinkedIn is probably the best way you can find me at now.
• 13:43
  Maybe someday I'll get a public profile in some capacity, but that's probably the most the best place to find me right now.
• 13:50
  Okay.
• 13:50
  All right, cool.
• 13:51
  We'll.
• 13:51
  We'll link that in the show notes for everyone.
• 13:53
  Awesome.
• 13:53
  Well, Alice, Andre, thank you so much for taking the time today.
• 13:55
  Thanks for having me.