Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 1012: Rewiring Your Brain to Do Hard Things with Tony Peterson

Transcript

Ep. 1012: Rewiring Your Brain to Do Hard Things with Tony Peterson · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the White Tail Woods, presented by first Light, creating proven
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by Tony Peterson to discuss the
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: science of doing hard things, what happens in our brains
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: when we do that kind of stuff, and what the
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: implications of all of this are for hunting and much more.
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: All Right, welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast,
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: brought to you by First Light. This week on the show,
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: I'm joined by my frequent collaborator, colleague and bully at
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Meat Eater. If we're being honest, Tony Peterson, and today
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: we are running down a little rabbit hole that Tony
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: brought to me. He stumbled across some recent research that
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: got him really intrigued about how relatively new science about
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: how the brain works and how the brain changes when
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: we do certain things, how all of that might impact
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: our pursuits as hunters. More specifically, this is taking a
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: look at some interesting parts of the brain that are triggered,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: that are worked. When we do hard things, when we
• 1:30
  Speaker 2: do particularly hard things that we do not want to do,
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: the brain changes. And when the brain changes, it leads
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: to your ability to do certain things to change as well.
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: And when you understand all that, you understand all these
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: connections between the mental choices and the physical body and
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: then how we live our lives. There's a whole bunch
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: of ripple effects from that that could impact our ability
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: to deer hunt as best as we possibly can, to
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: enjoy and be satisfied by deer hunting, or to tackle
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: any kind of difficult challenge, whether that's trying to kill
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: a mature buck or kill a elk on public land,
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: or do a backcountry fishing trip, or do a big
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: hike or a big run or a backpacking trip, or
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: whatever it is you want to do. There is this
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: very interesting mental side of it that now we can
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: connect to the physical part of our brain and think
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: of it a little bit more like a muscle and
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: how you can train a muscle. So Tony dove deep
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: down this rabbit hole for an episode of Foundations, and
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: he wanted to come on this show to riff on
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: it a little bit more and to explore a whole
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: bunch of implications of this. What does this mean for
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: how we train? What does this mean about how we
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: pursue deer hunting, the different challenges we tackle, how we
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: set goals, how we teach our kids about hunting, how
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: we find joy in hunting. All of that and much
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: more is covered today. It's in a unique episode. It's
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: a fun one with me and Tony just getting rift
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: together on this and I hope.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: You enjoy it.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: All right, joining me now on the show for a
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: little bit of an impromptu podcast. Here is my right
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: hand man, mister Tony Peterson. Hi doing Bud.
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: I'm doing so good, buddy. That couldn't be better. Wow.
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: I can only imagine what you must have just been
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: doing before you start recording. That to be the case.
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: I was actually, if people really want to know, I
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: was talking to Randall about a project he wants me
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: to put together with him, which would be how do
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: I put this? Probably less serious than maybe some other
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: projects we might work on, so.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: That sounds about right for Randall.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: It is never I always enjoy workshopping with Randall because
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: you never know where it's gonna go. It's always fun. Man.
• 3:50
  Speaker 2: One of the best things that Randal Ever brought into
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: the world was this random social media video he put
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: together for his own channel, I think, where he was
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: at a base ball game and he'd smuggled in a
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: zip block bag of chili to put on a hot dog,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: and so he's sitting in the chair at this game
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: and then he like squirts cold chili out of a
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: ziplock bag all over the hot dog and it's like
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: all over the place, and he's as happy as a clam.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: I just laughed so hard watching that.
• 4:18
  Speaker 3: Randall is truly one of a kind. There's only one Randall.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a that's the truth, and there may be
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: only one of a kind of this kind of podcast
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: here today, Tony two. Because I had plans for a
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: show and then you're like, hey, buddy, what about this
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: completely other, off the wall thing that I'm kind of
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: excited about right now. And I decide, like, screw it,
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: let's just see where this goes, Tony. Why do you
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: have the brain on your brain right now?
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: So I've been thinking about this really spurred this is
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: so last weekend my daughters and I went and shed
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: hunted this farm. I have permission hunt southeastern Minnesota I've
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: talked about it a whole bunch. One of my buddies
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: lives down there, and he said there's been a pile
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: of deer there and on the neighbor's property. He's like,
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: you got to get the girls down and go run
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: through there and shed hunt. And so we've had really
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: really mild weather here right, Like we had some cold spells,
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: we had some storms, but we've had you know, several
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: weeks of like above you know, above average, very little
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: snow up here where I live, very little snow over
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: in Wisconsin where I hunt down there, no snow. So
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: I'm like, this is going to be amazing, you know,
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: like no snow. Shed hunting is great. Right, So they
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: had a little storm go through the day before we
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: went down there. My buddy said, you know, the fields
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: are pretty wide open still, it shouldn't be too bad.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: So I drove all the way down there with my daughters.
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: It was cold. We walked out there and went into
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: the spot where there's a there's a trout stream on
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: this on part of this farm, and the deer, if
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: you get a bad enough winter, they'll they'll kind of
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: yard up there. Like on normal winters, you don't see it,
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: but there's all deer that yard up there, and so
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: it's kind of where you start, right, like I find
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: most of my antlers there and then we go do
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: the other stuff. Anyway, we walked in the woods and
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: there's like three inches of fresh powder clinging to everything.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: So almost instantly I was like, we're probably not going
• 6:14
  Speaker 3: to find antlers, right, you just know, unless you get
• 6:16
  Speaker 3: a big one times or whatever. Yeah, right, And so
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: I told my daughters that, I said, listen, this is
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: going to be a lot tougher than I thought. We
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: had really high hopes, and we we ended up, you know,
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: finding a ton of deer. Sign We had a we
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: had a herd of deer run into us. That was unreal.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: I mean it was like forty to fifty deer for
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: like ten minutes streaming through the woods around us. I
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: saw five bucks still carrying, and so you know that's
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: another thing when that happens two hours into it and
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: you're like, well we saw five bucks and every one
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: of them had his antlers anymore, right, and three of
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: them were good, you know, good ones, you know. So whatever,
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: So we had a really good time. We you know,
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: hiked through the wood. It kind of became a winter
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: scouting trip kind of talked through like when when I'm
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: with them in those situations, I talk to like, why
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: do you think this spot would be a good spot
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: to hunt? You know, we kind of go through that shit,
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: you know. Anyway, We're driving home and my daughter was like, man,
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: I just didn't think it would be that difficult, And
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: I was like, well, honey, most of what we do
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: actually is like you kind of like they've they've been
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: shown sort of a skewed view of it because I'm
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: guiding them to deer, right, But most of us who
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: went through the process without that just know. And if
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: you you know, if you're not sitting on a great
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: property in a great place, you know what white tail
• 7:32
  Speaker 3: hunting is like, it's not easy. That's why we have
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: a job, right, That's why we do what we do.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: And so I started thinking about it and it kind
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: of led me down that path of when you when
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: you finally kill a big one. You know, some people
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: go out and get lucky at twelve years old and
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: kill a booner or whatever, which is which which doesn't
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: really it's not like germane to this, but it happens.
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: But mostly people work their way up the process, right,
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: if they don't have a really good spot, they kill
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: some does and little and move up to the two
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: year olds and on up and whatever. But for a
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: lot of people who are really hooked at it at
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: like my age, your age, they had that moment where
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: they finally killed a big one, you know, that one,
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: thirty one, forty whatever, however it came to be, And
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: it's that moment where like before, you're like, this is
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: never going to happen, you know, like I'm never going
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: to get this right, this is never going to happen,
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: and then once it happens, your entire worldview changes. Yeah,
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: And so I started like digging into that. I'm like,
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: why why does that happen to us? And it turns
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: out there's actually a scientific explanation for a hell of
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: a lot of what we do, and there's a lot
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: of data coming out of it. And it's so I
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: ended up doing this as research for a foundation script
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: that's going to drop second week of March. That's that
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: dives pretty deep into this. But there's a thing in
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: our brains called the anti anterior mid singulate cortex, which
• 8:51
  Speaker 3: means nothing right, but it is a part of our brain,
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: a region of our brain that is essentially responsible for
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: willpower in a roundabout way, okay, And so if you
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: start taking into that, what it does is if you
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: do something difficult that you don't want to do, and
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: like that's a key component of it. You have to
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: not want to do this thing, there has to be
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: some struggle, some discomfort with it. That part gets bigger.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: That part will actually grow in your brain, and you
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: will be more likely to do more difficult stuff in
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: the future. And you will still you will still kind
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: of dread it, and you'll still feel exhausted before you
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: even do it, but you're more likely to do that.
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: And if that snowball rolls that way, it gets easier
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: to do difficult things. If you don't go through some
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: struggle and you don't experience discomfort and burn through it,
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: that part of your brain, that anterior mid singular cortex
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: gets smaller. And once I read that, I was like,
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: this makes sense. Why when you look at somebody like
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: that in Andy May, who I use as an example
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: all the time you've spend time with Animeme, he's I mean,
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: he's right at the top of the food chain for
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: being one of the best hunters out there, no question.
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: But also when you spend time with him, he's really
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: good at fishing, he's in super good shape, he has
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: he does these things that the average person doesn't do,
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: and you would think that. I think the view on
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: that is that he's just like genetically special or he
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: was like he has something that just other people don't.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: And what this data around this little region of our
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: brain kind of suggests is, no, we're all very capable
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: of this. We are fighting against what our brain does
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: evolutionary wise, which just tells us to conserve energy and
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: not do failure, not engage in something that will probably
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: result in failure. And so like the whole concept, I
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: was like, man, this is just like so important to
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: being a good hunter in a really weird way.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Well, it almost sounds like this portion of the brain
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: could be thought of similarly to a muscle. It's like you,
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: if you work that muscle, if you stress that muscle,
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: it can grow and expand your capabilities. If you let
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: that muscle lay dormant, if you do not stress and
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: work with that muscle, it deteriorates and loses capability and function.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: So what you're telling me is that this research shows
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: that we can build a willpower and a determination muscle,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: or we can lose a willpower and determination muscle, and
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: that can impact how we can handle and push through
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: and succeed despite adversity. Is that what this is telling.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: Us one, that's exactly what this is. And so as
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: a an easy way to kind of frame this up,
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: especially that will show you my age is if you
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: talk about helicopter parenting right, like where you do everything
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: for them for a child and sort of protect them
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: from you know, going out and playing goalie and getting
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: their asses kicked right or you name it, They're not
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: gonna learn how to get through adversity. And this is
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: so this is like a I think inherently we understand
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: this as people right, but we view this the wrong way.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: Like when I was when I was digging into this,
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: I was like, man, we are looking at this like
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: it's literally an example of itself. So if you if
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: you take this at surface value and you're like, I'm
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: gonna grow this part of my brain that I can
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: barely pronounce and become the kind of person who can
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: free solo l cap and do a whole bunch of shit,
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: you won't do it like you'll be like, that's that's
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: too much work. I'm not gonna do that, because you
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: would look at this like a thing that's just as
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: hard as running that one hundred mile marathon or whatever.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: But this, like you said this, this, if you compare
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: it to a muscle, right like, you don't get jacked
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: by doing three curls, right Like, You're not gonna You're
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: not gonna have awesome biceps because you do three curls
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: with a fifteen pound dumbell. That's just not how it works.
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: You have to do a lot of small movements.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: And so you're kind of blowing my mind. Though right
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: now my whole training programs don't have to change.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: But anyways, I hate to break it to you, Marcus,
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: but if you want to be jacked, you got to
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: put in the work.
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: Maybe that explains some things we don't.
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: But seriously, though we don't. We frame this stuff up
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: in a very human nature esque way, right like, because
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: the social media thing is a good way to look
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: at this, where everybody who gives us fitness advice is
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: already jacked or in really great shape. The people who
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: are telling you how to hunt or that you know
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: that we looked up to or whatever. They already went
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: through this, you know, And so it's easy to be like, yeah,
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: but you guys already have that, or like they already
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: do that or whatever. But the reality is is there
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: is a way to condition yourself to get better at
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: doing difficult stuff. And what we do is we approach
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: it wrong a lot of times. Right. This is why
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: fad diets. This is why you know, somebody will come
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: out and say you have to hunt this way, right,
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: like I run cameras this way, or I hunt buck
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: beds exclusively, or I do this and it's silver bullet thing. Right,
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: it's a promise, right, but it's not. It's not how
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: you get better like you have to. There's there's several
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: steps to this, and I cover this in that Foundations episode,
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: but the first one that really stuck with me was
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: you have to stop negotiating with yourself. What do you mean? Man?
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: So if you think about there's there's a phenomenon that
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: happens with people when they go to the gym and
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: they want to get on the treadmill and start working
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: toward whatever. That is a five k, a ten k,
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: a marathon just a twenty minutes at this speed. And
• 14:37
  Speaker 3: so a lot of times, Okay, you go buy the
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: workout clothes, you buy the pre workouts, your water bottle,
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: you download your podcasts or you plan to you know,
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: connect to the Bluetooth and watch your show, and you've
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: set up You've set up this this thing that you
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: have to do or you know you should do, and
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: it's predicated on a whole bunch of stuff that isn't
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: really you know, germane to the task. It can help you, right,
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: like you know, listening to a podcast or whatever helps
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: running or like for a lot of people it does, right, yeah,
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: lifting weights and you listen to music, that kind of shit.
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: But the more that you build into that where you
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: can be like, oh, I don't have this today, so
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: I can't do that right, Like for whatever reason the
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: treadmills glitching out and you can't connect to it. Well,
• 15:21
  Speaker 3: now I can't do my thing.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: I can't do it.
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: So we negotiate with ourselves. And on the white tail front,
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: this is you know, this is something I talk about
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: all the time where the primary method we're fed by
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: a lot of people is to stay out of the
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: woods until the cameras show their daylighting. The weather's going
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: to be perfect, and then you go in and hunt,
• 15:40
  Speaker 3: and so we look at that and go you have
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: a let's say it's October tenth. You have a beautiful
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: evening and you could hunt right, but your cameras have
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: been dead, and you have three stands up and you're like, well,
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: there's a west wind, so only two of those stands
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: are even worthwhile and I haven't got a picture of
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: a good one in three weeks. You're going to negotia
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: right out of that instead of going, all right, well,
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: these cameras have been dead, but what about this part
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: of my farm? Or what about the water hole that
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: I haven't been into this year? Or I wonder if
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: like instead of looking at it to solve that problem
• 16:13
  Speaker 3: with a little step, right, Like if you go hunt
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: that October tenth, you're not changing your rout outlook probably right,
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: you know, there's kind of a reset moment. But it's
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: easy for us to negotiate or our way out of
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: the work. Yeah, right, Or like think about it winter
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: scouting wise, right, Like we're talking about winter scouting like crazy.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: I've been going a lot lately. It is very easy
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: for me to look at winter scouting and go that
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: is so loosely tethered to my fall success that I
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: don't need to do this because I'm going to come
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: back in August and I'm going to hang cameras and
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: I'm going to hang stands. But every time I do it,
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: I learn something, Like when I was with the girls
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: last weekend, I found some stuff where I was like,
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: I've hunted this farm since I was fifteen, and I'm
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: going to set up here for the first time in
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: my life. Life that kind of stuff. And so it's
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: we make these big we think that these changes are
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: have to be these wholesale, big changes in our lives,
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: and with deer hunting we do this all the time.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: But really it's those small steps, but holding yourself accountable
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: to them, and then you get that part of your
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: brain going in the direction you want because you have
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: to do things that you don't want to do to
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: get this to grow.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: What is the like, what does that? What does this
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: look like in real life in deer hunting. You kind
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: of lay out some examples there, but I'm curious because
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: you know the research that you pointed to at the beginning.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: I saw a little bit of a YouTube clip talking
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: about just for a little bit of context. And one
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: of the key things mentioned in that, and you mentioned
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: this as well, was that kind of the crux of
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: this is that you do the hard thing despite not
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: wanting to do it, right, Can you lay out a
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: little bit more of an example of what that looks
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: like when it comes to like, because I want to
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: go hunting, so me choosing not to go hunting, I
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: might ostensibly say, well, I want to go hunting on
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: October tenth, but the conditions aren't right and I'm trying
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: to be smart, so I'm not going to do it.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: If I do it, well, then I'm kind of doing
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: the thing I wanted to do. So does that count?
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Does that not count? What does that like? What does
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: this look like? If you were spell the perfect example
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: of how to work this muscle according to this research.
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: So on that example, it's a great example. Right, everybody
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: wants to hunt. Everybody sitting here in March wants to
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: go bow hunting more than they don't. But when the
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: fall comes and you can say it's a better decision
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: for me to not do this. What you're saying, then,
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: is the thing I care most about is killing that
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: big buck, Like that's why I'm there, right, But we
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: have lots of ways to kill big Bucks. But if
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: you go meet that challenge and go, you know what,
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: I'm going to figure this out on October tenth. I'm
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: going to go do this, that makes you a better
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: deer hunter that as a person, And it's not the
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: thing about this is it's not just making you a
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: better deer hunter. Like when you look at what this
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: part of your brain does and the willpower thing holding
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: yourself accountable. If you picked up a guitar and it
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: was really hard for you to learn how to play,
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: but you stuck with it and you're like, I'm going
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: to just figure out how to play a freaking g
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: chord seamlessly, right, That's going to make that part of
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: your brain grow, and that will help you become a
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: better deer hunter because you're more willing to face difficult
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: things and get through the discomfort. That's the whole point
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: of this thing. We look at it so pursuit specific,
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: because you know we're talking about deer hunting, but it's
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: really life choices. Right. Like the example that I gave
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: this in this podcast that I wrote was it always
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: amazes me at meat Eater. I've worked in the outdoor
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: space in some capacity since two thousand and three. Meat
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: Eater is full of more people who have authored books.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: Like I can be sitting in a room meat Eater
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: trivia or whatever, and I can look around. I can
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: be like, that guy's written books. She's written a book.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: That guy's written a book, like crazy high, Like they're
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: like the prevalence of that is way too high for
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: a random sample, right, And then you can be like, well,
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: not only that guy hasn't written a book, but he's
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: run one hundred mile mountain marathon. That guy's running half
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: in the mountains. And you start going through this and
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: it's the same people doing stuff that most people think
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: you can't do. And so people look at that and
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: they go, well, they're special people, right, And I'm not
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: discounting that there aren't advantages and there's there isn't genetics
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: at play here and all kinds of stuff, because of
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: course there is. Like life, life is not fair, sure, right,
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: just isn't. But when you look at people, you know,
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: the David Goggins and the Campaigns of the World or whatever,
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: the Steve Vanella's, they do a lot of difficult stuff
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: and I can promise you that part of it is
• 20:58
  Speaker 3: because they've just leaned into those uncomfortable, you know, struggles
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: and gotten through them. And when you do that, like
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: just like when you kill that first big buck, like
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: when I killed my first big one, I was like,
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: it felt like the world shifted for me. Yeah, like
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: literally did it. And I have never not killed big
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: bucks or had really good chances to kill big bucks since,
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: and before that it felt literally impossible.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: Impossible.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and so and that's another way to look
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: at that too. And I wrote about this is with
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: with white tail hunting, we talk from a place where
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: it's like we're pretty comfortable trophy hunting in a lot
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: of ways, right, Like you're you're going to set standards
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: that are that are pretty high because you know you'll
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: probably get there, or you know you probably have a
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: good shot to hold out for whatever. That is a
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: lot of the people who are listening to this, and
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: a lot of people who are starting out that don't
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: go through that process of working up through the deer
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: and killing some dumb ones first, killing the easy ones first.
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: They don't get there and they don't learn that, and
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: so you get to that negotiation stage where you're like,
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: not only did it not pay off before, I know
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: it's not going to pay off now. And it's like, no,
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: killing that two and a half year old when you're
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: three years into it is this thing that's how you
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: kill big ones five years down the road from now
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: because you're you're just working through it. And it happens
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: with running, it happens with everything, and it's just fascinating
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: to me because we're so good at making excuses, you know,
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: like for whatever, like health is like such a big one,
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: but we are so good at talking ourselves out of
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: not doing something and being like because I don't have
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: the genetics, I don't have the metabolism or whatever. It's like, no, man,
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: We're kind of all born with this thing in our
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: brain that we can work on, but we have to
• 22:47
  Speaker 3: consciously be uncomfortable, Like we literally have to force ourselves
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: a struggle.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: It's funny. I've kind of stumbled into this realization about
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: my career and a friend of mine was wrestling with
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: a career decision and I just kind of off the
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: cuff shared this thing that I had kind of figured
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: out in my own life but hadn't necessarily like articulated it,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: and I think it applies to what we're talking about
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: here too. I've kind of figured out that whenever I'm
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: presented with two choices for my direction in life or
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: my career, usually whichever one makes me the most uncomfortable,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: which everyone scares me the most, that's the choice I
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: should take. That's the path that I should pursue. And
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: I've never really known why that's been the case, but
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: it's worked out so far. I've done the scary thing,
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: I've taken the big leap, I've done the uncomfortable, and
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: it seems to be maybe it's doing what you're saying.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Maybe this is in part that muscle growing because I'm
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: taking on that next challenge or the skit, the thing
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: that is higher risk but maybe higher reward, and that
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: has seemed to guide me, and I wonder if the
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: same is true on a smaller scale when it comes
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: to our hunting lives or or whatever other pursuit we
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: have in that you know, I don't know. This is
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: another one. I don't know where I heard this, but
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: I hammer it into my kids all time. One of
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: the most important things you can do is learn to
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: become comfortable being uncomfortable. Like that's one of the key
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: traits I'm always talking to the boys about, like we're
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: outside hiking or hunting or fishing or anything, like, guys
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: is like if they start complaining if something's not going
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: right or if the weather's not comfortable, Like, hey, guys,
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: what's happening right now? This is good? Like what do
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: you mean this is good?
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: This sucks?
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: This isn't We're not catching any fish, or we're cold
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: or we're tired, and like, no, right now, you are becoming,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: you are learning, You're be getting better being comfortable, being uncomfortable,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: and that is like a superpower for the rest of
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: your life. And and I think that I think that
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: holds true for a lot of stuff, right.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: One hundred percent. I mean, if you if you went
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: back in your life when you got out of college,
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: you had a good job with a company that was
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: on on the rise, right, yeah, and you ended up
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: walking away and starting a hunting podcast. Pretty stupid, right,
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: It's it's stupid in the way people look at I'm
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: gonna run a marathon as stupid, like because to them,
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: that's the unsafe, scary choice. And so again I need
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: I need to say this because I know that people
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: are going to default to looking at this in a
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: negative way. It doesn't have it generally doesn't have to
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: be that big choice, that big choice you made. You
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: might have made ten of them in your life that
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: you didn't recognize before that that led you to be
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: comfortable enough with that you make that decision, and now
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: you're comfortable with a bunch more stuff. Right, Like you're
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: comfortable and it's and it bleeds into life. And so
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: when you see people who are like self starters, right
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: who start a business or they go out on their
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: own and they and they do something that sort of
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: deviates from the path like when we were growing up,
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: like you know, my dad, you like, you get a
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: job at IBM and you work forty years and you
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: get your pension or whatever, and like that's the safe route.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: You don't you don't go try to be an outdoor writer.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: Like that's stupid. When you when you make those decisions
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: on a small scale, you you can go right back
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: to really really little stuff and it's going to keep
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: that snowball going in the right way, or keep your
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: momentum going in the other way where you'll you're shy
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: away from that stuff, and so there's there's like a
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: it's so much easier to talk about this in the
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: context of like exercise or diet or something, because it's
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: just sort of like a little bit easier to understand
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: because not everybody wants to get better at deer hunting.
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: Like a lot of people just want to kill big ones,
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: and we kind of have the formula for that, and
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: so like that's that's fine. But if you're sitting there
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: and you're like, why am I not better at this?
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: Like why don't I have the kind of success I want,
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: it's probably because you're partially not leaning into struggle in
• 26:53
  Speaker 3: some ways, right, Like it's just just think about it
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: from the perspective of if if you have and I've
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: done this to myself a million times, if you have
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: a farm, you know, a lease permission based grandma owns it, whatever,
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: where you can control the variables, where you can be
• 27:08
  Speaker 3: like I put a stand here in the corner of
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: the field because they always come through here. And I
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: put a stand there back on the ridge because they
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: run that, and I have a stand down at the bottom,
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: and then you're going to go out and hunt. But
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: those stands are just not producing you can take the
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: easy way and go sit those stands where you can
• 27:23
  Speaker 3: go find those deer. And we know that the people
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: who just get comfortable with that mobile set up, that
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: mobile process are just generally going to do better everywhere
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: with hunting and even out west when they go out west.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: And it's like little things like that, just the same
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: as you know, when the saddle movement came on super strong.
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: It's a little bit different now because it's so it's
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: like ubiquitous across deer hunters, But when it first came
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: out and you try them, that's like an awkward thing,
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: like it's literally physically like discomfort there to some extent
• 27:56
  Speaker 3: until you figure it out. And it's also just a
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: process where you're like this, it feels like you're failing
• 28:02
  Speaker 3: because it's uncomfortable, But you go hang it out of
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: a saddle one time and you don't You're like, I
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: don't love this, and then you do it ten times,
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: and then you go on a trip and then you've
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: you've done it one hundred times in the last two seasons,
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: and it's just a thing you were very comfortable with
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: that helps you be better at this thing you love,
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: but you don't see that.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: You know something that just kind of came to me,
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: which I think is very interesting when you when you
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: think about this the way you're presenting it, when you
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: look at this idea of the ability to do hard things,
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: of the ability to struggle through adversity, the ability to
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: achieve goals despite you know, seemingly insurmountable odds. I think
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: that some people think that that is tied to a
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: personality trait, like some people are that kind of person,
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: some people are not that kind of person. And there's
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: some people just think like I'm just not that guy,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: Like I'm just not I'm I don't do that. I
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: play it safe. I have never been able to do that.
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: I always fail or what it hasn't gone my way,
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: that's just not for me. I think some people get
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: into like that rut of thinking. And what this study shows.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: What this research shows is that this is actually available
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: to anyone. Like anyone, every every one of us has
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: this part of the brain that can be worked on,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: that can be grown. Every single one of us can
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: become the kind of person who can who can beat
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: insurmountable odds. Every single one of us has like the
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: physical mental part of our brain that can actually be
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: changed to become the kind of person who acts like
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: David Goggins, you know, extreme example, but that's available to
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: every one of us. But I but I think that
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: my intuition is that you tell me if this is
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: right or wrong, because you've you've dove into this further
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: than I have. But my guess is that if you
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: try to do this, like if you jump right into
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: the deep end, you are, like, there must be a
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: risk to go going to like, uh, level ten right
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: out the gate, right, Like I imagine it's probably smarter
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: start at level one and do that hard thing and
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: be able to do that and then move up to
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: two and like stack your way up. Are there any
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: like specific examples in life that you can think of
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: where I could start working my grit muscle in the
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: brain again metaphorically to be able to become this kind
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: of person. Like I want to become the kind of
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: person that can do one hundred mile race. I want
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: to become the kind of person who can handle all
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: those all day sits and make the tough choices on
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: my deer hunts and not quit when it gets tough.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: I want to be the kind of person who can
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: do the ten day backcountry elk counting trip in the
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: high Lpine that has always looked amazing. But man, that's
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: just over. It's out of my pay grade. I want
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: to be that guy. I'm assuming I can't just snap
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: my fingers and become it. What are some ways to
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: start that process?
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: In your view? It's like everything, right, So if you
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: want to if you want to lose weight, you've never
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: been on a diet, never pay attention, and you drink
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: three mountain dews a day. What's the first start? Right?
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: You don't have to you don't have to eat kale
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: and bland boiled chicken every day, right, Like, you can
• 31:11
  Speaker 3: start with that, and once you do that and get
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: comfortable with it, that's just like a little tiny baby step.
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: So I actually wrote about you brought up all day sits.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: I wrote about that in that in that podcast where
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: we talk about all day sits. Like, I actually really
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: like all day sets. Now, there was a long time
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: in my deer hunting career where I could not do one.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: I just couldn't. I couldn't get past it. I would
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: talk myself out of it, you know, eleven o'clock hits.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: I'm like I'm finding a reason to leave. Now I'm
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: finding a reason to stay. And so what I what
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: I said in that is like I one of the
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: things that has changed how I deer hunt is Okay,
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: I figure out how to do the all day sets
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: because I have a lot of faith in a rot spot.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: But then you go hunt somewhere in September and it's
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: going to get, you know, eighty five degrees in the day.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: But I'm on a trip in North Dakota, or I'm somewhere,
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: I'm not home. I can't go home and mold a
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: lawn and take care of the garage or whatever. Then
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: you're like, well, what else are you going to do?
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: And so I started bargaining with myself on those trips
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: where I'd be like, you know, I really only think
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: it's going to be good till like nine in the morning,
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: But I'm going to force myself to sit till ten
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: or I probably don't need to be there till three
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: o'clock in the afternoon, but I'm going to go in
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: at one thirty because i have nothing else to do.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: And when you do that thing that you don't want
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: to do, you know how it is like you go
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: out there and eventually you get in there at one
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: o'clock and at one fifteen a buck cruises through or
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: a buck comes into water, and then you're like, you
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: get that reward for doing that thing that you didn't
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: want to do, and then you're one step closer to
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: an all days sit during the rut, and it's a
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: conditioning thing. So I kind of I guess another way
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: to look at it would be like, you know, I
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: love bird dogs, like I'm I have puppy fever bad
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: right now, Like I want to get a new pup.
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: I think I'm going to get one in the spring
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: of twenty seven because I love training them. But people
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: will ask me about it, and I'm like, I always
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: just look at a dog now because I don't want
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: to fail in that, Like that's so important to me
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: to have a really good dog that I have to
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: train that sucker for two years hard, Like you know,
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: by hard I mean consistent, right, Like I can't I
• 33:18
  Speaker 3: can't train an eight week old puppy really hard, but
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: I can train them a little bit. But when you
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: look at that, if on the outset, you're like, man,
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: two years, Like that's a big commitment. But when you
• 33:29
  Speaker 3: break it down into a daily commitment. When I have
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: an eight week old puppy and I'm treat training it,
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: I might do three minutes of training in an entire
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: day to get it to learn how to sit and
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: start to stay or start on recall or something. And
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: it's just like everything else, it's not we look at
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: it like we look at it in its entirety and
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: it's too much. You know, right, you want to write
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: a book. You're you're in the middle of that process.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: What's chapter one, what's the what's the outline? First, it's like, okay,
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: now I need to knock out chapter one. Okay, you
• 33:59
  Speaker 3: did that, you do chapter two. Like I always tell
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: people who are like, oh man, you know I can
• 34:05
  Speaker 3: only run three miles, and like, well, if you can
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: run three, you can run four. You just haven't, you know, Like,
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: it's not like your body won't do it, it's your
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: mind telling you to not do it. And so with
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: deer hunting, I look at that stuff. There are a
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: million different ways that we can get a little bit better.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: And I think, you know, I've been preaching about this
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: a ton. People will talk about like you brought this
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: up earlier, Like I don't want to hunt on October tenth,
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: because I'm not going to kill a big one, Like
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: I don't believe that at all. And it just like
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: I don't believe that hunting in the heat, hunting in
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: the wind, hunting in the rain, whatever thing that keeps
• 34:41
  Speaker 3: you out hunting in the mornings in the early season.
• 34:44
  Speaker 3: I think every one of those things is solvable because
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: I've been on enough trips where I had to try.
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: And the problem with it is is we do this
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: and you're mostly going to fail, just like you would
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: mostly fail if you try to take the safer out
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: and didn't go do those. But you get enough success
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: and you work through it, so you don't look at
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: it like this is a thing talking me out of going.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: This is a thing convincing me how to figure it out.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: You know. It's like everything, so much of the good
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: stuff in life is like predicated on that long game consistency,
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: and it's hard. Well.
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: I like the fact that there's so much crossover effect here,
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: you know, like if my favorite thing in life is
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: deer hunting, what I think is pretty huge to consider
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: with this is that there's a ton of stuff that
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: we can do in the rest of our lives outside
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: of deer hunting, that given this explicitly will help us
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: with our deer hunting, you know, experience and success. Like,
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: when I consider this, I start thinking about this quote.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: I think it was from James Clear maybe he wrote
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: that great book about habits Atomic habits. I'm pretty sure
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: he said that you know every choice you make. You know,
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: every time you're faced with a choice, you are voting
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: with your actions for the kind of person you want
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: to be. So I frequently think about, like when when
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: you know, whenever I happen to have like the actual
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: awareness of what I'm doing, and I've got a choice
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: ahead of me, I will think, like, what's the kind
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: of person I want to be, and what would they
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: do in this moment? And the kind of person I
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: would want to be would do x. So for example,
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: a tiny thing. I talked about this with Michael Easter
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: on a podcast a few weeks ago. He said that
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: the stats are that two percent of people in America
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: take the stairs. Whether there's an elevator, escalator, or stairs available,
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: only two percent of the American population will actually take
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: the stairs. The rest will take the easy way. Ever
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: since I started hearing that, I've started like, I always
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: take the stairs. I'm like, I'm the kind of person
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: that takes the stairs. That's the kind of person I
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: want to be. I'm going to do it, and I
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: like doing it. And then when I'm doing I'm thinking
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: to myself, you know what. That's like the tiniest, most insignificant,
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: silly thing, but it's a vote for the kind of
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: person I want to be. Same thing like the alarm
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: clock goes off and most people want to hit snooze again,
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: but you know what, I'm going to be the kind
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: of person. I want to be, the kind of person
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: that doesn't hit snooze. I'm up right when I say
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be. I foll through on my commitments.
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be that kind of person. Tiny, small, silly,
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: insignificant thing. But what you're telling me is that that
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: stuff squeezes that muscle a little bit, which leads to
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: the next thing, which leads to the next thing, which
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: leads to you saying, you know what, I want to
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: be the kind I've never been the kind of person
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: that could run a race. That sounds scary. I'm horrible
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: at that. I can only run three miles. It's very
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: funny you mentioned this, Tony, because before I did my
• 37:32
  Speaker 2: first half marathon, I had never run more than three miles.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: I remember the first time I went for a four
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: mile race, I texted my buddy or four mile run.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: I'm like, guys, I've never ran four miles. I didn't
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: know it's possible. So it's weird that you said that.
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: Maybe I told this to you because I'd never done it,
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: didn't know if it's possible for my body. Sure enough,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: it was.
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's a people say that to me a lot.
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: I hear that a lot, Like I talked to a
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: lot of people at the gym, and I'm always like,
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: all right, just envision a really slow, very hungry wolf
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: is after you, and in four miles you have safety, right,
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: so that whatever you're you know, I don't care hustle
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: you are. Let's say you do ten minute miles, right,
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: that wolf does eleven minute miles, right. But you would
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: make it to four. You just would. It's not that
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: your body won't do it, it's that your mind says you can.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: And so I know I know that, I know you
• 38:29
  Speaker 3: do this a lot, and I think it's a really
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: important thing. And the research indicates that it is as well.
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: Setting goals. You talk about this a lot. I think
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: that I think I think saying that is like off
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: putting to a lot of people, right, But it's not
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: the way I look at it. In deer hunting is
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: the thing that we do is we go I want
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: X buck, I want y buck, right, Like you know,
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: I talk about this all the time. People are like,
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: I'm going I want to go on my first l
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: hunt because I want to shoot three hundred and fifty
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: inch bowl And you're like, that's the wrong goal. It
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: just is. And when we do it with deer hunting,
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: it's easy, right because the target buck thing the hit
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: list buck thing, and we see people do this a lot,
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: like that's the buck I want to kill, or I
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: only kill five and a half year olds. For most people,
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: it would be better to set goals like I'm going
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: to hunt ten days in September, ten days in October.
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: I'm going to do three all days sits in a
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: row in November, or I'm going to kill a deer
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: from the ground.
• 39:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, process, process focused goals, not outcome focus.
• 39:38
  Speaker 3: Right, you have to write things that you don't want
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: to do, like let's say you always get into the
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: box blne That's fine, right, But if you're like I
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: want to get better as a deer hunter, you could
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: go into the season be like, I'm going to kill
• 39:52
  Speaker 3: one deer from the ground, dough buck, whatever, take your pick,
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: take your poison, whatever. That kind of thing is something
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: where you're like, it's easier for you to go in
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: that redneck because it's comfortable, it's awesome, you're going to
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: see deer, it's it's everything that a lot of people
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: want on a deer hunting But it's not going to
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: make you. It's not going to grow that muscle. Right.
• 40:11
  Speaker 3: But if you're like, I'm going to go do this
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: thing that I don't really want to do, it will
• 40:16
  Speaker 3: help you out, Like it just will.
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: So how do how do we balance this or how
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: do we reckon with this idea that we're talking about
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: right here, which is the intuitive sense which is now
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: confirmed with the research that by doing hard things that
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: you don't want to do, you can do more hard
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: things in the future, you can have more success or
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: push through challenges, et cetera, et cetera. Can like that's
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: this is the value of doing hard things and choosing
• 40:47
  Speaker 2: that uncomfortable path. But on the flip side, something you
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: and I have both talked about over the years has
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: been also recognizing the need to still find joy and
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: fun in hunting, and to not always be obsessed with
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: that end outcome or pursuing success at the expense of
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: everything else. How do we hold these two things in
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: two parts of our brain at the same time.
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: So I think a great way to frame it up
• 41:15
  Speaker 3: is to look at that quote. It's not the pursuit
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: of happiness, it's the happiness of pursuit. I like that.
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: So we think that one hundred and fifty incher will
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: make us happy, But it depends entirely on how you
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: kill it. If you don't do any real work for it. Yeah,
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: it's great, you can brag, you can send around the pictures,
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: but it doesn't mean the same thing to you as
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: one that you worked really hard for. And I keep
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: thinking about this. I mean this slapped me right up
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: on right upside the head this year when I finally
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: killed a good one in Wisconsin, and I was like,
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: that's my favorite deer I've killed in a long time.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: And I've killed bigger deer. I've killed deer on public
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: in different ways. There's been a lot of dead deer.
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: I've done that, and it was because for eighteen years
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: I kept going over there and getting my ass kicked
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: and getting close and just not making it happen. And
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: then it happened. And it's like it's hard to it's
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: hard to sell that, right, Like it's hard. It's hard
• 42:19
  Speaker 3: for people to get behind the thing, Like I don't
• 42:21
  Speaker 3: really want to fail for eighteen years to feel good.
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: But at we look at it and go, we're I
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: think we're focusing on the wrong thing. And I've been
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: bitching about this a lot with the trophy hunting thing
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: is how you do it should be more important than
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: what you kill, you know what I mean? And I
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: think that that messaging is tough, right, It's just tough
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: because like our egos, we want we want the big deer.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: But I always look at this and go, I don't
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: people think that I like to run. I hate I
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: hate it. I sit there, I run all the time,
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: and I literally hate it every time before I go
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: because I don't want to do it. But I never
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: ever ever regret doing it, just like getting up to hunt,
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: like if you know Turkey season's coming up, It's a
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: great example. If you get one of those seasons, it's
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: just a grind and those three thirty alarms, four o'clock alarms,
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: you're like, I don't want to get up today. It's
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: going to be hot. The ticks are out right on
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: down the line. You never regret being out there at sunrise.
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: It's worth it. You did something that you didn't really
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: want to do, even though if you ask me right now,
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: and like, I'll get up every every morning in Turkey
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: season because I want to go so bad. It's different
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: when you actually get there, and so you have to
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: just do it. Like you just have to find these
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: things where you're like, even though I don't want to
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: do that thing, I know it would be good for
• 43:49
  Speaker 3: me because that is the thing that grows that muscle.
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: That's just it.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: Well, I think it's also an interesting thing to think about.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: And I don't know if this is like a cultural
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: moment we're in or if just every individual goes through
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: this process themselves and I just happen to be in
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: that moment and I'm noticing it in more people because
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: of that. But I think a lot of folks seem to,
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: you know, go through the typical trajectories where you want
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: to you know, figure it out, then you want to
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: shoot a bunch of stuff, and you want to shoot
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: a big thing, then you want to shoot the biggest thing,
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: and YadA, YadA, YadA, And so I do feel like
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of folks now that are starting to
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: have the realization like the shine is coming off of
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: the booner bucks a little bit, or like you got
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: to kill a big one hundred and fifty in five
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: year old that's starting to not foreveryone. There's lots of
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: people that still love that. And don't get me wrong,
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: I love shooting a big buck too, but it's not
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: quite as alluring as it used to be for some people.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: I think some people are starting to see like, oh,
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: there's more to this than just that, and I think
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: this is like a one or a great remind of
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: an alternative solution. Like some people might say, oh, wow,
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: I'm not getting as jacked up as I used to
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: when I shoot a one fifty because I've now killed
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: ten one fifties and yet still a lot of work
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: and yeah, I still got to put a lot of
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: time into my farm and I do all this stuff,
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: but just not like what it used to be. It's
• 45:14
  Speaker 2: I wish, you know, someone said to me recently that
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: they wish they could feel the way they feel the
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: way they felt when they killed their first year again
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: because I've never been that excited again. Or they wish
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: they could feel that way when they killed their first
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: big buck again, because that's it's not the same anymore, right.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: I think this is a reminder of a way to
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: get that again, which is the big antlers sometimes can
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: be replaced by the new hard, the new challenge. You
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: could have a first time on the ground. You could
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: have a first time with a traditional boat. You can
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: have a first time without trial cameras. You could have
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: a first time on public land. You could have a
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: first time on a float trip in public land in
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: a new state. Like, there's all these different ways that
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: you can do the new hard thing, which can make
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: you feel like a child again and make you struggle again,
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: but then have that same corresponding joy and excitement again
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: having done the hard thing.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: Dude, when you when you said that, they said that,
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: the first thing I thought was you're just not looking
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: for it, because and then and then in my head
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: I thought, pick up a trad bow and just go try. Yeah,
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: because when you step to the range with that recur
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: for the first time and you stand there at twenty
• 46:22
  Speaker 3: yards and you couldn't pop a balloon out of seven
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: qu quivers of arrows, like all of sudden things change.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: And when you're in that tree stand and you have
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: a bow that's sixty inches tip to tip and you
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: can't shoot behind your tree now and he walks behind you,
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: everything's different. Like you've you've put yourself in a totally
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: different world. I would say that the reason that people
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: say that and believe that, like I wish I could
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: feel that again, is because we we let our egos
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: have a say and we default to what we know
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: will work. Yeah, right, like we just we have a
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: hard time getting out of our own way that way,
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: but that you know, it's hard. This concept is a
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: little bit hard with deer hunting because of stuff like that,
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: Like we know a way that works to kill them,
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: and it's not necessarily leaning into struggle, right, but to
• 47:11
  Speaker 3: enjoy it is different. So if you want to kill
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: a big one, there there are ways to do it
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: where there isn't a lot of struggle. After a while,
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: you get things established and you get the farm set
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: up and whatever, like you're not you're kind of it's
• 47:24
  Speaker 3: kind of like on auto, right, like you just treading
• 47:27
  Speaker 3: wattle bit right. You just know if you go sit
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: on the food button, you leave it alone until November first,
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: think good things are going to happen, But the process
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: there is gone, so the result changes, you know, it's
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: the same thing. Like I promise you this. We're going
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: to see all kinds of studies out of this ozembic
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: GLP one craze where people can take a shot or
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: get an injection and lose weight. That's great, right, Like
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: that's healthier. It seems to be healthier than staying heavy. Right,
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: But you know there's the mental component of achieving that
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: isn't there. So that person hasn't changed their mind. They've
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: just changed their body and they and they might you know,
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: I mean they might get skinny and love how it feels,
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: and and that might change how they view things. They
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: might be more likely to exercise whatever. Like I'm not
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: saying that, but that purely alone. Like if you could
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: take a pill and kill them a one hundred and
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: seventy inch er every year, you'd sell a shitload of
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: those pills, and a lot of people wouldn't be very
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: happy because that's not what this is, Like, that's that's
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: not why we're there. Like we talk a big game
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: about loving to hunt and loving the process and loving
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: the animals, and then we reduce it to this one
• 48:39
  Speaker 3: thing like how can we make it as easy as
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: possible to kill as big of a deer as possible? Yep?
• 48:44
  Speaker 3: And you literally can go out and just challenge yourself
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: to to to have a harder process to get somewhere
• 48:51
  Speaker 3: with it.
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're I think you're one percent right.
• 48:56
  Speaker 2: And I think that when we take the easy route,
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: or when we kind of tread water into the easy
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: route or stumble into that rut, the outcome, even though
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: it's the outcome we thought we wanted, it ends up
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: being hollow. And then you're left with this like sense
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: of holl in this and you're like, Wow, why do
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: I do this? I don't know, It's just the thing
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: I do. And it's okay, I guess I like it.
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: But I think a lot of folks I've definitely felt
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: at times where you're like, I don't know, there was
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: there used to be more of this and this this
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: shows again, it's it's an intuitive thing. Like we've talked
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: about this in the past, but it's interesting that there's
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: actually like a physical component to it now. But I'm
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: curious about this, Tony. What does this imply for how
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: you parent your kids and introduce them to hunting and
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: teach them about this stuff and other things, Because again,
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: this is back to like the joy versus struggle and
• 49:50
  Speaker 2: what I talked about earlier, Like, I'm constantly preaching to
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: my kids about becoming comfortable being uncomfortable, and I look
• 49:56
  Speaker 2: at hunting as one of the best places to do
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: that and to learn that. But at the same time,
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: I also want them to experience the joy. I also
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: want them to like not hate it, and not to
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: look at hunting or the outdoors as this place of
• 50:09
  Speaker 2: constant struggle and misery. So I personally have fought this
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: battle in turn, Like every time I take them out,
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: I'm always wrestling with like, hey, you got to tough
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: it out, just deal with this thing and do it
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: versus the Okay, let's not make them hate this. You
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: what's your sense about like how this how this functions
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: in an eight year old or a ten year old.
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: I mean, obviously you gotta you have to be a
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: little careful with it, right. But the fundamental concept of
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: this is if I force my ten year olds to
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: get up and go turkey hunting, they never want to
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: get up, you know what I mean. Like I have
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: two fourteen year olds. They don't want to wake up
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: and do this, but you you get them to go
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: do that thing they don't want to do, and then
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: the turkeys are goblin and the deer come in and whatever,
• 50:54
  Speaker 3: and it's like, Okay, this is like a mini example
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: of that with the with that balance between you know,
• 51:02
  Speaker 3: challenge and kind of guaranteed success, like what I did
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: with my daughters. They had it really easy when they
• 51:09
  Speaker 3: were eight, right, Like they just did like I set
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: up everything and I didn't I didn't know about this
• 51:17
  Speaker 3: what we're talking about. But again it's like sort of intuitive,
• 51:20
  Speaker 3: and so eventually they're gonna do an all days sit
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: with me. Eventually they're going to get out of the
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: pop up blind and have to camel up and think
• 51:30
  Speaker 3: about their movements and try to kill them. So when
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: we talk about like goals in the process of this stuff.
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: Two years ago I told my daughters, I was like,
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: we you guys, are gonna hunt without blinds this year
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: for the first time. We're just gonna go out and
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: try it. We get busted whatever, however that breaks. And
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: both of my daughters killed deer when we built natural
• 51:51
  Speaker 3: blinds in spots that we kind of walked in and
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: you know, like I knew they were gonna be deer
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: probably coming in there, Like I knew they were good spots.
• 51:56
  Speaker 3: But it's like not just marching them to a blind
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: I put up right, Like I talked about this on
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: I think it was Meat Eater Radio Live or something,
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: But I feel like when they have a buy in,
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: it's just better. And so you start out and you
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: try to make it easy because you have to, right,
• 52:14
  Speaker 3: but it doesn't take very long. And you see this
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: with kids, and I think parenting wise, I'm I think
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: setting an example that you'll do hard stuff, like you'll
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: do the things that most people won't. Like. You brought
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: this up way earlier about you know, people are like
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: they're just not going to do a lot of this stuff,
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: and in my head it kind of triggered like there's
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: sort of a social contagion component to this, right, Like
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: if you hang around people who do hard stuff, you're
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: just more inclined to do it. Like I'm buddies with
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: Jas Bouserman and Tim Kent, who've both been on this podcast,
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: and they both are long distance trail runners. I knew
• 52:48
  Speaker 3: them long before the meat eater days. And I remember,
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: you know, when I started running, Jace was training for
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: a hundred miler and I'm struggling, like struggling to get
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: a five k and He's like, yeah, twenty four mile
• 53:02
  Speaker 3: training run or whatever. Just like being around somebody who's
• 53:06
  Speaker 3: doing something hard is so good for you. Just like
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: if you're around people who don't ever do anything hard
• 53:13
  Speaker 3: and don't ever like try, you know, do anything with
• 53:16
  Speaker 3: any discomfort or struggle, you're gonna go the other way
• 53:19
  Speaker 3: with it, you know. And so I think I think
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: there's like a lot going on there in our lives
• 53:27
  Speaker 3: that we can sort of steer the deership or the
• 53:31
  Speaker 3: hunting ship that is not it doesn't it's not even
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: connected to it at all, which is sort of the
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: whole point of this.
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah, on the kid front. One other thing I thought,
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: and this maybe applies beyond just the kid front, But
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: as I'm thinking about that application, I would think that
• 53:49
  Speaker 2: there's a difference in how this would work for someone
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: if they were forced to do the hard thing versus
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: if they made that decision themselves. Right, So, if I'm
• 53:59
  Speaker 2: out there with my eight years old and it starts
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: raining and it's cold, and we still have an hour
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: of daylight or something like that left, if I were
• 54:06
  Speaker 2: to just say, hey, Everett, we're hunting in the rain
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: in the cold, just because it'll be good for it.
• 54:12
  Speaker 2: It's what we're gonna do. We gotta do it, and
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: that probably toughens them up to some degree, but maybe
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: not as much as if somehow we got to the
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: point where he made that decision for himself. And how
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: you get to that point probably is a process. Obviously,
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: probably a big part of it is modeling, like being
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: the example like you described. That's probably a big part
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: of it. Is if you can model this for your
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: kids for a certain amount of time and explain why
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: you're doing this stuff. I guess I guess that's what
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: I've been trying to do, like explain to the kids, like, hey,
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: the reason we're doing this, the reason I'm out here
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: right now because it's good to be uncomfortable, and now
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: you know, it's funny. I've had my young my oldest
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: son like start parroting this stuff back to me. I
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: can't remember what it was, but something over Christmas break
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: we're doing something might have been, and we went up
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: to Picture Rocks. It's like a national lake shore up
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: in northern Michigan, and it was like zero and we
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: were snowshoeing to go see these ice formations and stuff.
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: And I remember saying something like, Ah, this is kind
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: of crazy, isn't it, guys? And then Effett goes, well, yeah, Dad,
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: but we're the Kenyans. We're comfortable being uncomfortable. He said that.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: I'm like, hell yeah. Like it was one of those
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: moments where it finally you see, like, oh they are listening.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: So I wonder if, like the Superpower hack, when it
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: comes to trying to instill us in a kid, is
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: not to force them to do this all the time,
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: but to model it, to explain why we are doing
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: it in our lives, and hopefully put them in a
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: position and encourage them to get to the point where
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: they themselves say okay, yeah, you know what, No, I'm
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: not going to go in early today dad, because this
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: is you know, we can do this, this is why
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: we do this, just like your kids are willing to
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: step out of the blind and try the ground blind,
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: do the harder thing because they've seen you do that
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: and they've heard about how that benefits you, and they're
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: willing to try that next hard thing. I gotta believe
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: that that is really what you want to see, but takes.
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: A while to get to. Yeah, I mean it's a process,
• 56:07
  Speaker 3: but yeah, you're setting that example, right, And I think
• 56:10
  Speaker 3: about like, you don't You're right, you don't really want
• 56:14
  Speaker 3: to force your kids to do it. I mean if
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: there were situations where I was like, we have eight
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: gobblers roosted one hundred yards away, like there are situations
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: around to be like you're getting your ass up like
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: we're just gonna do this, sure, but also you know,
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: you always try to frame it up and be like
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: you know, like yeah, it's gonna be tough, right, but
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: it's the deer gonna come in like or whatever. Like
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: you can just lie to them like you don't know,
• 56:37
  Speaker 3: but they'll call you out on it afterwards, like I
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: thought they would. You know, they're not going to regret going.
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: You go eat a bunch of candy and whatever, and
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: you see some squirrels or but it's also if you
• 56:48
  Speaker 3: allow them to opt out, which is okay, right, Like
• 56:51
  Speaker 3: I'll never forget my one daughter when she killed her
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: first buck. She was nine and I had a whole
• 56:57
  Speaker 3: bunch of bucks on camera, little guy coming into this spot,
• 57:01
  Speaker 3: and her sister was up to bat. We made a
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: drive over to Wisconsin after school on a Friday and
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: we got to the cabin and she was like, Dad,
• 57:10
  Speaker 3: I'm just tired. I don't want to go, Like I
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: don't want to go, and I'm like, listen, honey, if
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: you don't go, your sister's going to and she's going
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: to shoot a buck. And she's like she really wrestled
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: with it. She didn't go. We went out and her
• 57:24
  Speaker 3: sister shot a buck like five minutes into it. I
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: wasn't even set up, like I was getting my camera
• 57:29
  Speaker 3: gear set up, and she goes, dah, there's a buck.
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: And I thought she was messing with me. Looked up,
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: here's a four key in there. She laced him. We
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: were back to the cabin before it was even close
• 57:38
  Speaker 3: to dark. And those kind of things like they leave
• 57:43
  Speaker 3: a mark too. It's a different thing than this what
• 57:46
  Speaker 3: we're talking about, but it just think about it like
• 57:48
  Speaker 3: when you've got that you know, cell camera in front
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: of that stand and it's October twenty seventh and you're like, oh,
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: I should get up and go, but it's going to
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: be even better in three days. And then you don't go,
• 57:59
  Speaker 3: and that dude walked your hitlister. You go, Okay, I
• 58:02
  Speaker 3: should have just done that thing that I didn't want
• 58:04
  Speaker 3: to do. Like there is that part of it too,
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: but the kid thing's tough. Man, Like, I really think
• 58:12
  Speaker 3: this is gonna be a weird way to put this.
• 58:14
  Speaker 3: I think that setting an example of doing what most
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: people won't do. Positive stuff. I'm not talking about like
• 58:21
  Speaker 3: shooting Heroin into your eyeballs or whatever, but like, yeah,
• 58:25
  Speaker 3: positive stuff is so important. They see that. Like when
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: I was growing up, my dad is just like notoriously
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: has a bad attitude. He just does. And it's like
• 58:34
  Speaker 3: it's so easy for me to default to that. But
• 58:37
  Speaker 3: like he would look at a hunting or fishing situation
• 58:40
  Speaker 3: and always sort of like focus on what the negative
• 58:44
  Speaker 3: outcome was probably going to be, you know what I mean,
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: And like a lot of people do that, and I
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: internalized that. I saw that for a long time. Man,
• 58:49
  Speaker 3: I looked at it like I will never be good
• 58:51
  Speaker 3: at this stuff. I will never figure this out. And
• 58:54
  Speaker 3: it's just like it's just not for me. But you
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: keep going, and I see how damaging that is, you
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: know what I mean? Like, you see how damaging that is.
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: And when we talk about success deer hunting, and everybody
• 59:06
  Speaker 3: wants that decoy or they want that strategy, or they
• 59:08
  Speaker 3: want whatever, most of what our audience needs to hear
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: and understand is you have to do something that the
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: other people won't. You know, like this is like a
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: core tenet of being successful on pressure ground. Is like
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: if you are willing to do things other people won't do,
• 59:26
  Speaker 3: then you win. Like you will, you will have more opportunities,
• 59:29
  Speaker 3: you will be moving in a direction. It's just it.
• 59:31
  Speaker 3: And that follows you everywhere in the outdoors, like that
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: follows you fishing, that follows you in pheasant hunting when
• 59:37
  Speaker 3: you go out west for the first time. If you're
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: the kind of person who will go in the conditions
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: other people won't, you're just better off. You're going to
• 59:46
  Speaker 3: be better at it. And so I think that setting
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: that example, you know, for your kids and just doing
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: it for yourself is like hugely important, Like it is
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: the key to killing deer on public.
• 59:56
  Speaker 2: Land and honestly probably anywhere.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's right, I mean it's better. It's always
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 3: better than not doing Yeah, but it's the difference maker
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 3: is real when you're competing against When you're competing against
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: the deer, it's different. But when you're competing against the
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 3: people for the deer, or for the pheasants or for
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 3: the oak, the person who does something the other people
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 3: won't is the person who kills. It's the Andy May success, right,
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 3: it's the Eddie Claypool success where I don't care if
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 3: it's antelope, I don't care, if it's high country meal deer,
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 3: I don't care if it's Illinois white tails. They're just
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 3: so much more likely to succeed. And then you look
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: at them outside of hunting, and they're still doing things
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: that most people won't do, and it's it's just so important.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 2: Well, that's the cool thing is that all of what
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: you just described is great. But then you can also
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: tell your wife or your spouse or your boss that, hey,
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 2: this also translates to the rest of my life. So
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: give me that vacation time, because this is going to
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: make me a better husband, wife, employee father, whatever it is. Right,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: That's that's the argument I think we can make now, right, Tony.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: I think that we're right there, buddy, All right, well,
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: excuse me.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: I appreciate you bringing this idea of the table. It's
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 2: one that resonates. Remind us, give us a give us
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: a reminder. Where are the Foundation's podcasts? How often do
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: they come out? What are some other things you've been
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 2: talking about? Because folks should definitely go listen to this
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 2: episode that you do a deeper dive. But what else
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: should they be looking for?
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: Well on this feed right here every Tuesday. I've really
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: you know, when we this is I think it's been
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: almost five years now. That's when we when we were
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: just first kind of kicking around the idea working together,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: and you came to me with this opportunity and we
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: came up with foundations. I was like two years and
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: I'm out, we got to do something different. But what
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 3: I've realized is I was looking at it from the
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: perspective of tactics and techniques and gear and not looking
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 3: at what actually makes us good hunters. Like all of
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: that stuff is complimentary, right like you if you have
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: that DSD THO you're gonna kill more deer somehow if
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 3: you figure out how to use it, you just will.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 3: But having the mindset to be better at difficult stuff
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 3: like that's just there's like a lane that people aren't
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 3: talking about. You kind of touch on it with deer hunting.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 3: But it's like the more as I get older and
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 3: I look at where you like, where we kill deer
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 3: and the kind of hunts we have and how this
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 3: works out and the scouting and everything, it's like, man,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: it all kind of points in the same direction, and
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: it's this stuff and I just think it's so fascinating
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: compared to just talking about how awesome rubs are, you know,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: which are great, But this is like universal, right, somebody
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: in Georgia can listen to this or understand this concept
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 3: and get better. But I might not ever, you know,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 3: talk about scrape hunting in a way that resonates with him.
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: You know, give me two other episodesdes of Foundations that
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: you can think of right now that you're particularly excited
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 2: about or proud of that you would say, hey, if
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: you if you haven't been listening to Foundations in a while,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: here's two more. You gotta check out. What are those
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 2: two recommendations.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: So I just dropped a couple on et scouting and
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: winter scouting, and I'm trying to I've been I've been
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 3: winter scouting a lot, and to me, e scouting and
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 3: winter scouting are sort of the same thing, right Like
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: if I you know, last weekend, I was on a
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 3: farm that I know really well. So I'm not pulling
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: up on X to look at that the same way
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: I was a couple of weeks ago when I went
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: out to western Minnesota, some land I've never set foot on,
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: and had dropped a bunch of pins and I just
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: wanted to walk public and hunt some rabbits and just
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 3: see if I could find a place to maybe kill
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: a deer at some point. Going through that stuff is
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: what feeds those podcasts, and so it's not it's I'm
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 3: trying not to do like, oh, well, you find this
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: type of uh you know, the top of lines or whatever.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: You're like, it gets tight here and so there's going
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: to be a pinch point there. Like that stuff's great.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 3: People are covering that like crazy, you know, like we
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: know how to find a water hole on on X,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 3: But I'm talking about like putting it into use and
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 3: then like ground truthing what you're finding. But because that
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 3: it flows both ways, right, we think like you're gonna
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 3: pull up on X and be like, I'm gonna drop
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: a pin here, and I'm gonna walk in there and
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: the rubs are gonna be there and I hunt there.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 3: But a lot of times you drop that pin, you
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: walk in there and you're like, well, there's a ladder
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: stand there, and there's a stand there, and you're like
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 3: it doesn't matter, that doesn't matter now. But you walk
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: through that cattail slew and you end up in the
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 3: next little wood lot and you're like, here it is.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 3: And that's what I'm trying to get, is like we
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 3: kind of sell a lot of answers to this stuff,
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: but really the accountability is on the individual to go
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: out and put this into practice in their world. And
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 3: so I've been talking about that a lot lately, and
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 3: I'm gonna write one here coming up pretty soon. I
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: haven't quite figured it out yet, but I ran into
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 3: a little spot on this farm that we I was
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 3: with the girl last weekend and there's a place we
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: call the betting area. It's just this ridge top. You know,
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 3: there's always dear beded and there's very advantageous for west winds.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 3: Just typical whatever stuff, right. But there's a little spot
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: that I've never really set up on, and I actually
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: was looking at it on on X just because I
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 3: was bored, and I was like, man, the way that
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: that hillside feeds down in that little spot, Like I've
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 3: been through there a million times, but I've never It's
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: just one of those walkthrough locations on your farm. And
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: I told the girls, I was like, we're going to
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 3: go shd hunt that ridge because bucks bet on it
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: a lot. And then we're going to just check out
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 3: this little spot. And I'm like, I bet there's going
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: to be a bunch of rubs pointing down toward the
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 3: field where they just take this this subtle kind of
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: ridge down. And we walked in there and the first
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: rub we found was like, you know, a three hander, right,
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 3: Like you can't even get your hands around it. And
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: I keep thinking about this stuff and going what we
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: think we know about our farm and what deer do
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: is like eight percent of what's actually going on out
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 3: there just the same, right, And I think about if
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: you keep engaging with that idea and going to learn
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 3: something you don't know like you think you know, but
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 3: you actually don't. You find all kinds of stuff and
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 3: you don't just default to what you expect to work.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 3: And that's that's winter scouting, man. Like I I've said
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: this a million times and I know you know this.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's so much more valuable to me
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: than almost anything else I do for deer. But I
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: have to remind myself and I have to force myself
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: to keep going because of that, just the seasonal timing
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: and how disconnected it feels in the moment from when
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 3: you're actually hunting. But it's so important.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: Gotta sometimes do the hard thing even when you don't
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 2: want to do it right right. And on that note, Tony,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 2: I will I'll thank you for taking the time to
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: do this and bringing a good idea at the table
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: and just more kind of zooming out. Thanks for doing foundations,
• 1:07:05
  Speaker 2: like for all these years of that work. I don't
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 2: think people realize how much work it is to write that.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: It's not like you're just riffing off the top of
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: your head. You're deeply thinking about something, writing up a
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: really good essay essentially, and then you know, sharing that
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: with the world. That is intensive. That is time intensive,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: so thank you for doing that and thanks.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 3: Thanks to chet Yeah buddy, thanks for having me, and with.
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 2: That we will wrap things up for today's show. Thank
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 2: you for joining us. I appreciate you being a part
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: of this community. Until next time, stay wired to Hunt.