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The Hoover Dam is Ridiculous, Part One: Man Versus Nature · Ridiculous History

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  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: for tuning in. Before we do our regular stuff. We
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: gotta tell you it is good to be back. It's
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  Speaker 1: super producer Max. What's mister Noel Brown?
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  Speaker 2: Dude?
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  Speaker 3: I was just doing that like Chris Farley, get an
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  Speaker 3: excited thing, you know where I'm like on my face,
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  Speaker 3: like moving my head all around, you know, getting all
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: pumped up for Ridiculous History.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: We took a little.
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  Speaker 3: Bit of a micro hiatus, not what like normal people
• 0:53
  Speaker 3: would call an actual hiatus, but I think we took
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: a week of classics or we intersperse some in there
• 0:58
  Speaker 3: who actually knows what well Max does.
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  Speaker 1: And they called me ben Bullet.
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  Speaker 3: It is I Noel Brown, Max. What happened exactly? How
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  Speaker 3: the schedule get kerfuffed?
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  Speaker 4: We we did.
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  Speaker 5: Three classics, but it has been a long time since
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  Speaker 5: the three of us been. I remember we recorded something,
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  Speaker 5: was it Aaron Burr?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah?
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  Speaker 5: And then walking away, I looked at Nola, I'm like,
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  Speaker 5: hey man, it's gonna be like the last time we
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  Speaker 5: were recording until November, and I.
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  Speaker 3: Down we embraced It was a very tender moment and
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: went to a hot tub.
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  Speaker 1: I'm sure so well.
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  Speaker 5: Ben looked out the window with his hand on the
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  Speaker 5: window being set.
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  Speaker 2: That's very kind.
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  Speaker 1: As we all remember, it was actually my nipple that
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  Speaker 1: I was putting on the glass, of course, and then
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  Speaker 1: I put my.
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  Speaker 5: Clean We don't want to point out that you were,
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  Speaker 5: you know, indecently, right, right, So.
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  Speaker 3: I don't think a nipple is considered in it's but
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  Speaker 3: it's also, let's just really quickly, sorry, gonna gonna stand
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  Speaker 3: on a pedestal hill.
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  Speaker 1: Shit, Why are women's nipples off off limits because of
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  Speaker 1: the Puritans? That's bolt crap.
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  Speaker 3: And I'm not saying that from a perspective of horniness.
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  Speaker 3: I'm saying it from a perspective of equal nippleness, you
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  Speaker 3: know what I mean.
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  Speaker 4: So couldn't we say damn Puritans?
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  Speaker 1: We could say damn Puritans, And it turns out we
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  Speaker 1: have a reservoir of water and damn based punge.
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  Speaker 3: I'm a big fan of pronouncing reservoir like memoir, like
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  Speaker 3: like in a very like high falutin French kind of way.
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  Speaker 2: Are we supposed to say reservoir?
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  Speaker 3: I mean, that's you know, maybe that's americanized I don't know,
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  Speaker 3: but that's how I would typically put a hard R
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  Speaker 3: on the end. But it does feel like a French
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  Speaker 3: word etymologically speaking. So I think you're absolutely in the
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  Speaker 3: right and I'm a big fan of it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel you, man.
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  Speaker 1: And maybe it does sound a little high falluting to
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  Speaker 1: our fellow Americans. See I would say high fallutin so so, folks, Uh,
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  Speaker 1: real quick, just so you know, we as you could tell, hopefully,
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  Speaker 1: the energy is contagious. The enthusiasm here is real. And
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  Speaker 1: sincere Noel just got back from Nashville, Max, you were
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  Speaker 1: on a walk about through the Pacific Northwest. I was
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  Speaker 1: out so far west that it's the East for a while.
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  Speaker 1: And before we did any of that, we went to
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  Speaker 1: Las Vegas, which we mentioned in previous episodes, and peek.
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  Speaker 2: Behind the curtain. Noel, you know this well, one of.
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  Speaker 1: The We're not divas folks, by the way, in the
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  Speaker 1: entirety of the network. We are so we are such
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  Speaker 1: go with the flow guys that we always we always
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  Speaker 1: try to make things work the weirdest thing. So it
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  Speaker 1: was odd for one of us to put in a
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  Speaker 1: bit of a diva esque caveat or fine print and
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  Speaker 1: say we're only going to Vegas if you let us
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  Speaker 1: rent a car to see the Hoover Dam.
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  Speaker 3: Hoover Dam or bust, I believe is the way you
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  Speaker 3: put it.
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  Speaker 1: It was.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, But let me tell you as I think I
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  Speaker 3: can speak for all of us and saying that we
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  Speaker 3: had a really fun time in Vegas. I think you'd
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  Speaker 3: been before, but I'd never been, and it was the
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  Speaker 3: vegasness of it all was a delight. I had a
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  Speaker 3: good time, won a little money, lost a little money,
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  Speaker 3: saw some shows, made some friends, made some memories, you know,
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  Speaker 3: played some slots, a little blackjack. Our hotel had been hacked,
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  Speaker 3: so our lights were sort of not fully functioning. It
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  Speaker 3: was a little bit of an odd time. But of
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  Speaker 3: all the things that we experienced in Vegas, I would
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  Speaker 3: say our trip out to the Hoover Dam, which was
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  Speaker 3: the first time I'd never really driven through proper desert
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  Speaker 3: desert like you know, been to Los Angeles, been to
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  Speaker 3: No cow so Cal holiday inn, but had never driven
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  Speaker 3: through the actual desert, you know, where the bodies are
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  Speaker 3: buried in Casino, and that in and of itself, just
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  Speaker 3: to the getting to the.
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  Speaker 1: Hoover Dam was awesome.
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  Speaker 3: And then as you're grounding these like switchback kind of
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  Speaker 3: corners you see in the distance, this thing that I
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  Speaker 3: believe Paul we were traveling with, said something like, it's
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  Speaker 3: like more real than real, Like it looks like like
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  Speaker 3: a video game. It's so the way we're used to
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  Speaker 3: seeing these types of grand you know, set pieces literally
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  Speaker 3: is in games or in movies. So to see something
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  Speaker 3: that's this expansive vista of this man made harnessing of nature.
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  Speaker 3: I know, I sound like I'm really towing the current
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  Speaker 3: line here, but it's awesome and it is like almost
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  Speaker 3: this uncanny valley vibe. To see this thing in person,
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  Speaker 3: it was spectacular, is what I'm getting.
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  Speaker 1: I had a great time.
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  Speaker 2: I yeah, I'm so glad to hear that.
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  Speaker 1: We were fortunate enough to go with, as you mentioned,
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  Speaker 1: our pal super producer and stuff they'll want, you know,
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  Speaker 1: Paul Decant, Matt, Frederick our Ryder Die and uh one
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  Speaker 1: of our emperors of sound cues here, Max, who very
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  Speaker 1: much missed. We rounded the corner just as you said, Noel,
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  Speaker 1: and the sheer immensity of it one of my one
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  Speaker 1: of my I were the diva by the way, I was, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: I was the one who said yeah, I was the
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  Speaker 1: one who said, well, I told our bosses we would
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  Speaker 1: only go if it was it was. Actually, it was
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  Speaker 1: a very uncharacteristic move for me because I didn't check
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  Speaker 1: with anyone internally, So.
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  Speaker 3: You think it was more of a gentle request and
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  Speaker 3: or you didn't tell it to anybody.
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  Speaker 1: But it makes for a good story, I I texted Will.
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  Speaker 1: But but the cool thing about this, oh, I've got
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  Speaker 1: to say it. Uh. I think it was my dad
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  Speaker 1: who told me the first time he saw the Hoover Dam,
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  Speaker 1: he was struck by the sheer audacity of it. He said,
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  Speaker 1: it was as though a man had spat in the
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  Speaker 1: face of God. And I was like, whoa a million dude.
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  Speaker 1: And that's what it's all about.
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  Speaker 3: It's like harnessing this natural you know feature the Colorado River,
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  Speaker 3: these rushing waters and like and you know, you think
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  Speaker 3: about that kind of technology and the ingenuity and ability
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  Speaker 3: to you know, kind of innovate in such a way,
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  Speaker 3: and all this took place and what like the.
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  Speaker 1: Twenties, Yeah, like the early nineteen hundreds, and you nailed it.
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  Speaker 1: Our story starts with the Colorado River. The Colorado River
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  Speaker 1: is huge. It's well over fourteen hundred miles long fourteen
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  Speaker 1: hundred and fifty miles long. It is the lifeline for
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  Speaker 1: the American Southwest and the West in general, Colorado, New Mexico, Utah, Wyoming, Arizona,
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  Speaker 1: Nevada or Nevada, we know in California as well as
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  Speaker 1: two states in Mexico. This is where the great the
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  Speaker 1: Colorado River made the Grand Canyon.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and the Grand literally sliced over time through these
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  Speaker 3: rocks and made this incredible feature, which really speaks to
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  Speaker 3: the power and like the absolute you know, just might
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  Speaker 3: of this natural resource, you know.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, So of.
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  Speaker 3: Course man is immediately not going to be satisfied with that.
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  Speaker 3: We got to figure out how can we make this
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  Speaker 3: thing work to our benefit, which is you know, understandable.
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  Speaker 3: This is a very arid and inhospitable region.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is.
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  Speaker 1: And also it's so people have lived in this area
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  Speaker 1: for thousands and thousands and thousands of years, but due
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  Speaker 1: to the exact nature of the environment what you're describing inhospitable.
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  Speaker 1: Due to that, the population has always been limited because
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  Speaker 1: there are only so many resources to go around. America
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  Speaker 1: as a country takes that personally. So they were looking
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  Speaker 1: at ways to enable large massive communities and agricultural interests.
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  Speaker 1: And that's why right now, thanks to the Colorado River
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  Speaker 1: and the Hoover Dam, this is the water source for
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  Speaker 1: more than twenty five million people. It irrigates three point
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  Speaker 1: five million acres of farmland. You can learn all about
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  Speaker 1: this in an incredibly cartoonish propagandistic film they make a
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  Speaker 1: watch before the tour, Noel.
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  Speaker 2: Can you describe that one a little bit?
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  Speaker 3: It's just, you know, lots of buzz phrases like the
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  Speaker 3: ingenuity of the human spirits, you know, and man's great
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  Speaker 3: desire to tame nature, you know, stuff I'm paraphrasing, but
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  Speaker 3: stuff like that black and white footage, a lot of
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  Speaker 3: like ken Burns affect still, you know, kind of zoom
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  Speaker 3: ins of like all these archival photos of men.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, that's just what it was.
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  Speaker 3: It was men working on this insane project, which we're
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  Speaker 3: going to get into some of the particularities of the
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  Speaker 3: insanity and ridiculousness. Because you're right, Ben, the word your
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  Speaker 3: dad used audacity. It is like, how dare you think
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  Speaker 3: that you could do this? You know, but also good
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  Speaker 3: job for doing it. But then of course you got to,
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  Speaker 3: you know, break a few eggs to make a Hoover dam.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, the Colorado River has a street name in the
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  Speaker 1: Halls of Power. It's nicknamed the River of Law because
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  Speaker 1: of all the legal disputes that have involved what happens
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  Speaker 1: to the water over the decades. It is now one
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  Speaker 1: of the most highly controlled rivers in the world. And still,
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  Speaker 1: whatever the points may be about controversy and audacity, it
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  Speaker 1: is true. Without the Hoover Dam, the West as we
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  Speaker 1: know it, the United States, for sure, would be fundamentally different.
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  Speaker 1: And they're going to use a different f word there,
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  Speaker 1: right right, And it all happens because of a disaster.
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  Speaker 1: So rewind the clock back with US folks or the VHS.
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  Speaker 1: That's a very mixed turn of phrase. Anyway, go back
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  Speaker 1: to the early nineteen hundreds, just as you were saying, no,
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  Speaker 1: it's the turn of the twentieth century. Farmers are trying
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  Speaker 1: to divert the Colorado River to these nascent and emergent
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  Speaker 1: Southwestern communities, and at first they do it with canals,
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  Speaker 1: and they totally drop the ball because the Colorado River,
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  Speaker 1: like any river of its size, it's not necessarily one
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  Speaker 1: hundred percent clean operation. It gathers a lot of debris
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  Speaker 1: and silt and dust and animal excrement as it flows downstream.
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  Speaker 3: That's right, So that downstream exactly ben So this can
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  Speaker 3: be a problem specifically involving the Imperial Alamo Canal that
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  Speaker 3: is constructed. So all of this silt, which is if
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  Speaker 3: you remember back to I guess physical science maybe or geology.
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  Speaker 1: I took geology in college, which was fine.
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  Speaker 3: We went to Stone Mountain and looked at like rock rocks,
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  Speaker 3: you know what do they call those cross sections and
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  Speaker 3: things like that. So silt is literally it's kind of
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  Speaker 3: just sand, but it's sand and particulate matter that is carried.
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  Speaker 3: It's a load, you know, like basically it's a It
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  Speaker 3: is a lot of volume of this stuff that can
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  Speaker 3: be suspended in water and then it kind of gets
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  Speaker 3: to pose. So that's also what can sometimes create like
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  Speaker 3: river beds, river banks and things like that. It'll get
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  Speaker 3: carried and deposited. But that can be a real problem
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  Speaker 3: if you're not taking into account you know, what this
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  Speaker 3: is actually doing for the flow of the river, right,
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: because the river, you know, some of them are wider
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  Speaker 3: than others, but it's not the ocean. I mean, it
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  Speaker 3: is a winding path and if it gets kinked up,
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  Speaker 3: much like a clogged artery in the human body.
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  Speaker 1: That can cause some real problems downstream. Oh yeah, Eventually
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  Speaker 1: what happens is you've no longer redirected the water. You
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  Speaker 1: have built a wall to prevent the passage of that
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  Speaker 1: precious resource and crops that were growing in this imperial
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  Speaker 1: valley then, as now, they were very desperate for water
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  Speaker 1: and the canal system. As this silt that you describe
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  Speaker 1: adds up, it just couldn't deliver. So at first, authorities
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  Speaker 1: try all sorts of things. At first they say, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: here's what we're going to do. We're just going to
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: always clean our house on a schedule, will remove the
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  Speaker 1: silt and will scour the channel. As anybody who has
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: tried to make a regular house cleaning schedule knows, it's
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  Speaker 1: very difficult to do consistently.
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  Speaker 3: Dude, I only just recently, and I'm not like Oula
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: laying myself yes, and it is a game changer because
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: I just don't ever have the wherewithal or the skills
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: frankly to do a very good job.
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: It is not my wheelhouse.
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: I do my best, and you know, and if you
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: have someone like that coming to help you with the
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: big picture maintenance. You can do little things along the way,
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: you know, that kind of help maintain the order.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: And it's not super expensive anymore.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: It's it's truly not, it's truly not, and it is
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: something that can really add to your quality of life
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: and peace of mind. And we're sponsored today by it.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: No or not, it's just a thing, but this is
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: a very similar thing. It's all about maintaining your house,
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: you know, keeping things orderly and not letting things pile up.
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  Speaker 3: Because it's just like the way dust bunnies can accumulate
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: in your house without you realizing it, this stuff can accumulate,
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: you know, in these bodies of water, and it's a system.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: It is a very delicate balance system, and if things
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  Speaker 3: are not happening correctly, aren't flowing correctly, it can cause
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  Speaker 3: real problems. Enter something called the Saltan's Sea, which I
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: think we were all kind of fascinated by the sultans
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  Speaker 3: Sink specifically, and then they'll get into that. So what
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: the Sultan's Sea is in a little bit, so they
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: kept the various authorities. We're trying to do things like, okay,
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  Speaker 3: cleaning every day, the equivalent of doesn't work. They said,
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: let's dredge the area. No one has the money to
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: do it. The clock is ticking, the crops are going thirsty.
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  Speaker 3: Enter the California Development Company.
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  Speaker 1: They're the ones who are supposed to get water to everybody,
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  Speaker 1: So they become the scapegoat. And they know that if
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: they don't figure out an answer soon one they'll all
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: be fired to the impre valley will cease to exist.
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  Speaker 1: So they still couldn't get For five years, they couldn't
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  Speaker 1: figure this out, and a disaster strikes. Nineteen oh five.
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  Speaker 1: The Colorado River breaks free of an overburdened irrigation channel
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  Speaker 1: and it goes right to the place you're describing. If
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  Speaker 1: floods an area called the Sultan Sink, and this is
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  Speaker 1: disastrous for the Southern Pacific Railroad.
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  Speaker 2: The railroad is huge.
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  Speaker 1: This is the age of Robert Barons and tycoons, and
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: even they are powerless in the face of nature, the flood,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: the surrounding geography. There's a great line from an article
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  Speaker 1: in the Los Angeles Herald on July twenty sixth, nineteen
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  Speaker 1: oh five. It says the following. In the struggled fall,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: supremacy between the Southern Pacific Railroad and the Sultan Sea.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: The Watas have won.
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  Speaker 3: Well done. The only way to read that it's true.
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: So the Mojave Desert to the north and the Sonora
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: to nor End Desert to the south border this sink
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  Speaker 3: seventy meters below sea level at the very bottom of
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  Speaker 3: what's called the Sultan Trough. And so by the time
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  Speaker 3: the railroad had kind of gotten their ducks in a
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  Speaker 3: row and done what they could to figure out how
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  Speaker 3: to seal this overflow, eighteen months had passed and the
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  Speaker 3: Sultan Sink was no longer just a little sink. It
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  Speaker 3: was now what is referred to as the Sultan's Sea,
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: which in and of itself is a fascinating place. Oh,
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  Speaker 3: there's actually a movie called The Sultan Sea with Val Kilmer.
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: And if you've ever played Grand Theft Auto five, I
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: want to say, what's the one with the weird methy
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: guy who lives I think that's six six maybe, so
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  Speaker 3: that's five, okay, So he lives in this area that
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  Speaker 3: is basically the Sultan Sea.
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  Speaker 4: Right right, and exactly that's what it is.
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  Speaker 3: I think there was a time where the trever n
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  Speaker 3: It's all coming back to me.
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  Speaker 4: Not Trevor young.
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  Speaker 3: Heart producer who also lives in La But the Sultan
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  Speaker 3: Sea as a community used to be I think more thriving,
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  Speaker 3: like there was even like a little you know kind
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  Speaker 3: of stuff, and it was for sure. But then over time,
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: because of what happened in this Sultan Sea drying up,
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: We're gonna that's a whole other story to say, it
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  Speaker 3: does become this very sad, kind of like downtrodden community
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: as it is depicted in that.
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  Speaker 1: Game and in the movie with Val Kilmer.
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  Speaker 3: But again because of this ecological disaster that was caused
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: by just not minding the ecological shop in terms of
• 17:41
  Speaker 3: like paying attention to Okay, we've done these things, these
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  Speaker 3: man made things, and now we're seeing what God hath wrought,
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  Speaker 3: you know what his his his wrath, hath brought down
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  Speaker 3: upon us for daring to have the audacity once again
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: to interfere with the natural course of nature.
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  Speaker 1: And so for a time, the Sultan Sea was California's
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  Speaker 1: largest lake. It was a monument to the mistake of
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  Speaker 1: the canals. Thirty six miles long, twenty six miles wide,
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  Speaker 1: This shock of water in in ordinarily parched, desiccated desert
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  Speaker 1: it recreated this ancient lake that had disappeared two hundred
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  Speaker 1: years prior. And now I'd love that you pointed that out.
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  Speaker 2: Man.
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  Speaker 1: Now, just as the ancient lake disappeared, the current one
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  Speaker 1: is disappearing, and as it does, the waters are receding
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: back to reveal this toxic Dusty mad Max esque its landed.
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: You know, it's like Fury Road.
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: There's actually a really good article on California dot Com
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: that's just what happened to the Salt and Sea, and
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: it's it has to do with too, like it became
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: very the salinity levels of it rose, so it just
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: it just began to cause all these like I think,
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: fishkill and like really bad problems and revealed, like you said,
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: all this overflow and runoff from fertilizer from neighboring area.
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: This is really a separate story, but honestly, I think
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: we should do an episode on the saltan Sea. I'm
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: pulling little bits that I remember, and I'm looking at
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: articles here and there, but I'm realizing now there is
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: a ton of information there and we can bring back
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: our conversation of g T A five and Trevor as well.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm glad you mentioned that too, because I
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: just realized GTA six has not come out yet. They're
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: about to announce it.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: I heard today that they were gonna potentially announce it,
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: and that's.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: Why I jumped in.
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: Trailer.
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: The trailer comes out in December, and I think we're
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: all do the GTA six fit GTAs going on ten
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: years since five. It's like when Street Fighter had to
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: learn to count to three, you know what I mean,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: it took a while.
• 19:49
  Speaker 5: And in the defense, rock Star is in that category
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: with like Bethesda, Sure and Naughty Dog where it's like,
• 19:55
  Speaker 5: take your time, take your time while you're making these games,
• 19:57
  Speaker 5: because when they make them, they're they're they're worth it.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: And and they still end up doing these whole crunch scenarios. Oh,
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: people are having to pee in bottles, and you know,
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: but I think I think that's become such a pr
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: nightmare that they're doing everything they can to prevent that,
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: if only for like, you know, not getting slammed in
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: the press, and because I think we're at a place now,
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: I hope largely where people are looking for that kind
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: of behavior and it's sort of not tolerated as much anymore.
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: I've heard that at the major companies has gotten better.
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: It's the small company.
• 20:28
  Speaker 5: Sure, yeah, to be competitive the indie companies also.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the danger is that you're you're working in a
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: market where it's someone's dream job. It is a dream
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: job to be a video game creator.
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: So, man, we've been there with the podcast stuff, I mean,
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: through various ownerships, and you know where we are now.
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: I think we're probably in a pretty good work life
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: balance situation for the most part. But in the past,
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: when I first got this job and we were owned
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: by a company that shall not be named, I would
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: have done anything, you know, and I didn't even have
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: healthcare at the time. You know, I would have worked
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: whatever hours they asked me to. But we we digress
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: a little bit. But I think to things of value
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: and definitely let's put a pin in the sultancy episode.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: But what happens now as a result of this, the
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: lessons learned perhaps from this ecological disaster.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what happens now is the job of controlling the
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: uncontrollable Colorado River. This herculean task falls to the US
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Bureau of Reclamation, and we hung out with some of
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: their representatives when we visited Hoover ourselves excellent tour guide
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: who was not just we asked ourselves or maybe I
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: asked the question, like, how does one become a tour
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: guide at the Hoover Dam And it's not all he does.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: He was a historian who works for the Department of
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: Reclamation or whatever it is of our reclamation and he
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: studies the Hoover Dams job. We'll get to Matt at
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: the end. That guy is awesome. Shout out Hoover Matt.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: Whope you're listening. So, feaced with this nigh impossible task,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: the Bureau of Reclamation has a They have a bit
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: of what Star Trek would call this for umax, a
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: kobyashi maru, which means there is an unsolvable scenario and
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: so spoiler they captain kirk it. They said, look, if
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: the problem without if the problem is we understand it
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: is the following constraints, let's step back and let's change
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: the constraints. So let's stop trying to do individual canals.
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: Let's figure out something that will be to the benefit
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: of all. And that's where we introduce in nineteen twenty two,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: the Bureau director Arthur Powell Davis.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, first of all, can we just talk really quickly.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: The idea of a dam is something that occurs naturally
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: as well. You know, beavers make them, you know, beavers.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: Who famously saw water living on its own and said
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: fuck that, nah, exactly, we got to do something about this.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: But it's essentially just building a wall wall not not
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: made of water, but in the water, that separates a
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: body of water.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: You didn't have to but that there here a dam
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: is about to wait. Back beat, the beaver's about to eat.
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: Now he's got to let these beavers eat. That's partially
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: probably why they build the damp. But it's just, you know,
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: a thing that separates a body of water into sections,
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: and it raises the water level on one side and
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: lowers it on the other side. And then that's the
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: most if I'm not mistaken, the most fundamentally basic version
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: of what this is, and it's being it's been done,
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: you know, it's a low fi technique that has been
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: done for hundreds and hundreds of years, if not thousands
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: of years, of course, so this what we're talking about,
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: is the like the most extra plussed up version of that.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: So American. It's clearly from the same country that will
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: later go on to say, cocaine's okay, but what if
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: we kicked it up a notch, you know what I mean,
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: Like that's a crack joke, which I did not expect
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: in today's episode.
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: You're you're absolutely right.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Also, just to set back for a sec, Max, did
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: we get the Kobyashi Maru reference correct?
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: Ben?
• 24:09
  Speaker 5: You nailed it one hundred percent correct, even the Captain
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: Kirk reference about how because you know he cheats the system,
• 24:13
  Speaker 5: he's the only ones ever succeeded in the Kobyashi Maru
• 24:16
  Speaker 5: is because he changed the problem.
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: Because because yeah, it's a no win situation.
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: So the Kobashian Maru is there's a ship over the
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: border outside of the Federation space. It's like a civilian
• 24:30
  Speaker 5: ship being attacked by Klingons. So you can go in
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: and save the ship, but your ship will get blown up,
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: or you can leave them outside of Federation space and
• 24:40
  Speaker 5: they get blown up.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: You could have just said, yes, Max, nosolutely.
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: We did an episode about the origins of Star Trek.
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: This has been I have high I've hijacked this all right, No,
• 24:50
  Speaker 5: this is gonna be ridiculous Star Trek history by the end.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Nol, what do you think does that get the sound cue.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I what else is it for if not
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: that Max with the facts.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Of phone and he drops in the knowledge.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: Just for you.
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: So good, there we go, So back to back to
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: the setup that you've been you have been attempting to
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: do for like five minutes. Now, our Captain Kirk here,
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Arthur Powell Davis. He makes this audacious proposal and he says, look,
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: we're going to go to the Black Canyon right there
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: on the border of Arizona and Nevada, because we not
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: just geography, but politics become involved here. We need it
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: to be something that gives every state a stake in
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: the agreement. And so he says, we're going to build
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: this thing. I call it the Boulder Canyon Project, and
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: then he does Simpson's monoail speech. It's gonna control flooding
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: and irrigation. We're gonna make money by generating sully hydro
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: electric power.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it sounds like a bit pie in the sky,
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: you know, but it's it's not.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: It wasn't.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, we'll get to that. It is definitely a
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: big swing. As they like to say. Some people, I
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: think I don't know who these people are. Some people
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: say these things it was a big idea, you know,
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: and this was the kind of the era of big ideas, right,
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: wasn't this sort of approaching kind of new deal type
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: stuff or was that later a new new.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: Deal comes out in the Great Depression as a as
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: a move of desperation. That's right, But this is but
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: this is eleven years after this.
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: But what I'm saying is.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: It's almost like a pre like you know, version of that,
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: because this is gonna create a ton of jobs. This
• 26:48
  Speaker 3: is gonna like you know, this is this is infrastructure city. Man.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Like, this is literally as big as it gets, right.
• 26:53
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and you think about it, this is not that
• 26:55
  Speaker 5: far after Panama Canal, which you know has a billion
• 26:58
  Speaker 5: problems about it and stuff like that, but like, you know,
• 27:00
  Speaker 5: another massive infrastructure task the United States took on.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: So on the one hand, it's functional as hell, that's
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: the idea. It's technically got the ability to pay for itself,
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: and it represents this thing. It's like this great American
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: ideology kind of writ large you know in project form.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: A man a plan a Canal Panama. Right there, you go,
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: that's the that is that man damn a, thank you, ma'am. Yeah,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: the Hoover Dam and way less Hoover Dam also way
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: less ethically fraud than the Panama Canal.
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: It must be said so because there were political ramifications
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: to the Panama Canal in terms of like other countries
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: and partnerships and some potential shady dealings.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah again, maybe that's another I don't know if we've
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: done a Panama Canaler.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: I have not.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: And one of the big questions is whether that's better
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: as a ridiculous history or.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Episode.
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: That's a good point. That's a good point. So at
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: this point it's just over, Oh yeah, good, okay, done right.
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: Un So this point it's like a twinkle in the
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: eye of this fellow.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: Right, And he says, and they say, they say, very well, Davis,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: but uh, let's talk turkey.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: What it costs?
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: What well it's costs. And he says, okay, one hundred
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: and sixty five million dollars and he lets the silence
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: ride out in the boardroom. We imagine because if you
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: do an inflation calculator, oh boop, one hundred and sixty
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: five million dollars in nineteen twenty two, A.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: Bee boop is drummer all look at this number. I
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: had a hard time even saying it out loud because
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: I was is that a trillion? Or I think it's
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: three billion, twenty two million, nine hundred and twenty seven thousand,
• 28:50
  Speaker 3: six hundred and seventy eight dollars and fifty seven cents.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: You always got to wonder where the fifth cents comes from,
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: Like you think they just round it up or down
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: at that point, you know.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Good lord. But the thing is, this is like over time,
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: right and again, it's gonna pay for itself, I swear.
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: Plan.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, you're right, that's that's a tall milkshake for sure.
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: And lawmakers were rightly concerned about this because really what
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: they're talking about is paying money today, a great deal
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: of money, for the promise of a recouped investment in
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: the future. So that might only pay you next week today, Yes,
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: just so. And so there are seven states in the
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: overall river drainage area. Six of them Colorado, Wyoming, Utah,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: New Mexico, Arizona, and Nevada are worried, and they're saying
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: something that is still a problem today. They say, hey, guys,
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: we're top of the line politicians, so we know how
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Macanese work. We're worried that most of the water here
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: is going to go to California, and that's a fight
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: that continues now in twenty twenty.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: Literally called the Golden State, you know. I mean it
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: feels like the favorite you know child here. It's also
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: quite large and quite economically important, right yeah, it's massive.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: It's almost a country unto itself in many ways.
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: So the understandable and as we know, you know, we
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: talked about this on stuff that I want you to
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: know a lot, and probably on this show as well,
• 30:31
  Speaker 3: the idea of water wars and the idea of water
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: being one of the most precious life giving resources that
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: there is relatively a finite amount of and that you
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: have to divert. And now we were already talked about
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: this at the beginning of the show. This is an
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: area that like is this stuff is in precious little supply,
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: so this is a big deal. They're like, how are
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: we gonna make this under the control of the man
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: and then still expect that our community are going to
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: be taken care of and trust that that's going to happen.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Yes, that is a perfect description, and so things kind
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: of get locked. Landline, he need some assurances assurances. So
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: fast forward. There's a guy who is famous in musicals
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: like Annie. He is at the time Secretary of Commerce.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: His name Herbert Hoover. He is the deal maker. He's
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: the rain man for this. He's the Donald Trump, who
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: is actually pretty good at what he does. Yeah, he's
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: the rain maker. Excuse me, rain man, different movie. So
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: he goes to the he creates the Colorado River Compact,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: and this divides the water proportionally among the seven states
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: with assurances for the future. Honestly, though, his solution is
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: somewhat of a long term band aid for everyone involved,
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: because whenever the states raise a problem, like the concern
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: about California mooching up all the water, he gets the
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: groups to agree that they're gonna consider themselves two big groups,
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: basically a group of states on one side of the dam,
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: a group of states on the other side of the dam.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: And he says, look, guys, in the future, just sorted
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: out between your two groups, that'll be perfect. Uh, you know,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: he's sort of like states rights stuff, right yeah, yeah,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: And history would prove him woefully incorrect, if not purposely
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: a bit deceitful. So this legal this makes him a
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: little happier, a little closer to the finished line, but there's.
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: Still just like a heroic gulp of coffee. Yeah, I'm sorry,
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: I just had to call that. It was just like
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: a head back.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: He knows what the gulp?
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, I'm preparing to edit this one.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: He knows what's yeah.
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: So thanks bro. So we haven't beat that much. We
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: beat once for a curse word that people stay in,
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: but I I stand by it. So. Uh, there's a
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: guy named President Calvin Coolidge. He is on the way out.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: And as we know, when a president is on the
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: way out in the United States, they have they have
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: a weird redistribution of their powers. So if you're the
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: lame duck scenario, if you're a lame duck president, you
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: can lose a lot of your deal making ability in Congress,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: but you gain a lot of agency because you don't
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: have to worry about re election.
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: You could again, you can make some big swings that
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: you maybe would not have otherwise made for fear of
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: political fallouts.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna pardon everybody, you know what I mean. Let
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: me green light every project, Pitch it to me, pitch it.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: It's basically the that don't give a era of a
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: particular president. I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do.
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I just have to say this real quick. Yes,
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: Calvin Coolidge was awesome.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, people are wondering why Max has aired this opinion
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: versus what is it Woodrow Wilson.
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: Who is the worst? Yeah, yeah, he's the worst.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: He's like Franklin Pierce bad. But yeah, but Calvin Coolidge,
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: you'll see why where we'll talk a little bit more
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: about him in the future spoiler slash foreshadowing.
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: So I actually like a Republican. It's weird.
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: So calvi us the thing as in true for sure. Well,
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: I agree with Eisenhower on several points, especially when he
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: was out an outgoing president. I like ike.
• 34:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well a lot of people did, unless they were
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: on the wrong side of war with him.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: But Calvin Coolidge, all right, so he's on the way out.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: He is flipping the bird to all sorts of established things.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: He is green lagging stuff left and right. It is
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: Coolidge who authorizes the Boulder Canyon Project in December nineteen
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: twenty eight. And so everybody's saying, okay, the Herbert Hoover
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: becoming president. No one knows that the Great Depression is
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: on the way, or we'll have the magnitude of possesses.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: So Hoover still has a clean name at this point,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: and the secretary of the Interior, Notorious Brown Knowser Ray L. Wilbert, says, hey,
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: because of what Hoover did when he was a secretary,
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: let's name the structure the Hoover Dam. And he says
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: this at the dedication in nineteen thirty. He just floats
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: it as an idea or has this like been like
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: fully vetted at this one? That seems like a real
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: overstepping if not.
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: But I gotta say, I mean, maybe this is just
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: you know, history embedding itself in our consciousness. But like,
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: the Coolidge Dam doesn't nearly have the same ring to it.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: It's weird too because it doesn't. It has the same
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: double O. Yeah, but the g is throwing it off.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: That's what it is, the Coolidge Dam. It feels wrong
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Hoover Dam. The emphasis, the way the syllables play with
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: one another. Good branding, I would argue, I.
• 36:02
  Speaker 5: Mean, Coolige, you wouldn't want anything named after himself. That's
• 36:05
  Speaker 5: just how Coolidge was.
• 36:06
  Speaker 4: Coolidge was that cool. He was really cool and he
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: didn't want any attention paid to him.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Ever, his autobiography is like a haikup and a drawing.
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 36:14
  Speaker 5: It is the shortest autobiography any president. Of course, it
• 36:18
  Speaker 5: is the shortest one. I have that fact in an upcoming.
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: Perfect You've got me intrigued, Maxleene to find out more
• 36:24
  Speaker 3: about this Coolidge fellow. Uh.
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: I can't wait interesting.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: I can't wait till we get to the you Lewis
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: joke hold the phone or damn it ding dong?
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Uh.
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: This is uh, this is way more ridiculous than I
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: think we thought. And as you can hopefully tell ridiculous historians,
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: the three of us are over the moon, over the
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: hoover to be hanging out once again.
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: So uh nol.
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: We talked off air, and this is going to be
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: a two part yes, a uh preemptive post emptive two parter.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know. We sort of had an inkling.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: But but like I say, at the end of the show,
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: who knew that this, this damn would yield so much
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: interesting conversation?
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, sure we had some size. We
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: talked about some video games. There isn't that bad that
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: we're happy now? Yeah, you do want us to be happy.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: We want you to be happy. Too.
• 37:16
  Speaker 3: Ridiculous the story, and so we're gonna give you this
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: in some little kind of nuggety bite sized portions.
• 37:22
  Speaker 5: And to jump in here, I guess gotta get air
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: out of beef right here. The biggest, the biggest teas
• 37:28
  Speaker 5: river in this country. It is the Columbia River. You
• 37:31
  Speaker 5: guys know, the Columbia River.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Beefing with the river.
• 37:35
  Speaker 5: Listen, listen to all right, I bet, I bet you
• 37:37
  Speaker 5: guys know. I love Portland. I actually did not go
• 37:40
  Speaker 5: to Portland this year. But Portland is the Columbia River,
• 37:43
  Speaker 5: and it goes out to the Pacific Ocean. It's like,
• 37:46
  Speaker 5: you know, even with the porter. So I'm driving from
• 37:48
  Speaker 5: Seattle to Spokane, Spokane with Spokane and I'm over driving
• 37:52
  Speaker 5: there this giant, beautiful river.
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: I'm like, what is that? And it's like, wait, that's
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: the Columbia River. Why is it here?
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: So it basically goes down at a forty five degree
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: from the north northwestern part of Washington down to basically
• 38:05
  Speaker 5: the corner of the eastern corner of Washington and Oregon.
• 38:10
  Speaker 5: It says, psych and just go straight back out to
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: the ocean. It just does not want to hang out
• 38:14
  Speaker 5: with us in this country. It's like, nah, I'm good
• 38:16
  Speaker 5: because that's a very infamous one that not infamous, but
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: very famous one that the infamous duo of Lewis and
• 38:21
  Speaker 5: Clark took into the ocean.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: So Max is angry at a river. That's one of
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: our post Montana updates.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: And we are.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: We are, as you said, we are excited to return
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: to the Hoover Dam later this week. I believe we'll
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: make it a Hoover week in the meantime. Thank you
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: so much the super producer, mister Max River Hater Williams.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you as always to Jonathan Strickland aka the Columbia
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: River of Ridiculous History. Thanks to let's see who else,
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: Herbert Hoover, I guess.
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: Oh boy, that guy. And Calvin Coolich, the one cool cat,
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: one cool press. We like him, at least Max does.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: I've been tempted to look deeper into it. And also,
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: you know, die in a fire Woodrow.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: Wilson, and thanks of course Alex Williams, who can.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: You may have died in a fire. We don't know
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: how how he died. He probably died cozy in a bed.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: He died, he died of the fire and his soul.
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: Thanks also to Alex Williams for the slap and bop
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: that we have loved for several years ago and now heaves.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Jeff go Christo rossi otis here in spirit, Gabelusier, our
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: research associates, is Jeff and doctor Z, all of the
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: ridiculous historians who make these shows possible, and Noel. Thanks
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: to you and to you as well, my friend. We'll
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: see you next time. Folks.
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.